Andy & Ari On3 - Brent Brennan kept Arizona together; can the Wildcats win the Big 12? | Class of 2025 Fong Bombs

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

Thank you to Gametime for sponsoring today's episode! Planning your college football travel for this season? Gametime has tickets to every game. (And every concert and comedy show.) Download the Gametime App and enter code: STAPLES for $20 off your first purchase, terms apply. Last Minute Tickets, Lowest Prices, Guaranteed.(0:00-3:01) Intro - Big 12 Media Days Start Today(3:02-4:50) Week Away from EA Sports Early Access(4:51-9:37) From the Hardwood to the O-Line(9:38-11:53) Previewing Arizona(11:54-34:42) Arizona Head Coach Brent Brennan joins the show(34:43-52:34) Steve Wiltfong from the Wiltfong Whiparound joins(52:35-56:19) Addressing some Comments in the chat(56:20-57:00) Conclusion, Wrapping UpNew Arizona coach Brent Brennan joins the show to talk about keeping a team together as an incoming coach in the era of the transfer portal. Brennan’s Wildcats will be largely intact as they enter the Big 12, and a team led by quarterback Noah Fifita and receiver Tetairoa McMillan should have a chance to compete for the title in their new league. Brennan also discusses taking over a veteran-heavy team and what it’s like to be a coach recruiting Snoop Dogg’s son.Next, On3 VP of recruiting and transfer portal Steve Wiltfong stops by to discuss some of the big class of 2025 commitments from last week and some big names planning to commit in the next few weeks. Plus, Steve talks about the updated On3 class of 2025 rankings and recruiting hot streaks at Oregon and Michigan.Want to watch the show instead? Head on over to YouTube and join us LIVE, M-F, at 8 am et! https://youtube.com/live/XL2XY4V0lmsHost: Andy StaplesGuests: Brent Brennan, Steve WiltfongProducer: River Bailey

Welcome to Andy Staples on three. Happy talking season. That's right. It all starts today out in Las Vegas. Big 12 media days. Kicking it off. Big 12 Commissioner Brett Yormark because of all the commissioners, he feels like the one who will say the most interesting things because he does not come from the world of college sports. He comes from the world of entertainment. He comes from pro sports. And yes, that gets you Nelly performing at a halftime of a conference championship game, but it also gets you a fresh take on some things. And so I'm curious to hear what Brett, your mark has to say about all the changes going on in college sports, because he looks at it from a different perspective. I would assume there's going to be a little victory lap because the Big 12 is here, and the Pac-12, well, they're having a cocktail party for the two teams that they have left in Las Vegas, kind of piggybacking on Big 12 media days. But it'll be interesting to hear what Brett Yormark has to say. I imagine he'll get asked

about the idea of selling the conference's naming rights. You heard me when that came out about a month ago. I was like, yeah, go for it. Big 12 doesn't make any sense. No real brand value of that. You don't have 12 teams anymore. Why not? Sell that sucker. Make some money.

But we'll see what he says. Very curious to hear what Brett Yormark has to say. Mike Gundy will be there today. Kyle Whittingham, Utah's coach. Third different conference for Kyle Whittingham. He has coached Utah in the Mountain West. He's coached Utah in the Pac-12. And he has coached Utah now in the Big 12.

He's won the other two. Can he win the Big 12 as well? I think there's a lot of people who think he's the favorite. Also, Matt Campbell. One of the great turnaround stories last year, and you remember, oh yeah, Matt Campbell's a pretty good coach. Remember at the beginning of last season, they lost to Ohio U. things were looking very bleak

for matt campbell well guess what he's back i wouldn't count out iowa state this is that's what makes the big 12 so interesting i don't know who's gonna win this thing i could probably name you 10 teams that could win it. And one of those teams is probably going to be the three or the four seed in the playoff. It's just, it's amazing. So we'll hear from those guys today. We're six days away from the start of SEC media days. We're a week away from early access to EA Sports College Football 25. So if you ordered the deluxe edition, if you ordered the bundle with Madden, you get to play in a week. I'll be at SEC media days. I've got to find it. I don't think I can smuggle my kid's PlayStation

out of the house. So I might have to find a friend who lives in the Dallas Metroplex who might be willing to let me come play. I think I know a couple people there. So hopefully I will be able to sneak away from SEC Media Days, get some gaming in, and come back with a full report. Hopefully. David G says, will Oregon State, Washington State keep the Pac-12 branding on the uniforms and on the field? Yes, I believe they will. I think it's part of what they have to do to keep the money is they're going to stay the Pac-12 for two years and then they've got to figure it out because there's a transitional period after stuff changes, but they need to make sure that their teams will still be eligible for the NCAA basketball

tournament. Within two years, they have to get their membership back up to, I believe, more than, I believe it's eight or more. And so they figure it i've been saying this since everything went down last year my guess is they'll wind up merging with the mountain west i don't know if the pack 12 name stays i would keep the name it has pretty good brand equity uh you could just change the number to whatever number of teams you have that's happened before pack, Pac-8, Pac-10, Pac-12. So why not? Another interesting story. We're going to have Steve Wiltfong on later today. We're also going to have Arizona head coach Brent Brennan. So he's not talking to Big 12 Media Days until tomorrow, but he's on this show today. So we'll talk to Brent Brennan about taking over the Wildcats.

Steve Wiltfong, All-In Vice President of Recruiting and Transfer Portal. We'll talk about a bunch of five stars and four stars and new rankings. We've updated the rankings at ON3 for the class of 2025. There were some people very happy about that, some people very mad about that. We'll talk to Steve about that. We'll also talk to him about a little surge at Michigan. We'll talk to him about the Oregon success. We talked to Justin Hopkins about yesterday. But one thing I want to talk about, we don't normally talk about when three stars commit to Georgia, but I will say given Kirby Smart's history with under the

radar recruits, I feel like this is worth noting. Plus, it's just a crazy story. So yesterday, Georgia got a commitment from a three-star offensive tackle named Jha Jackson. Now, this is not for the class of 2025. This is for the class of 2024. This guy will be starting camp with the Bulldogs next month. So what is interesting about John Jackson? He has not played football since middle school.

He is a 6'11 big man who's been playing for Overtime Elite in Atlanta. Overtime Elite is a basketball development program where guys who are future NBA players go play there and either go to college from there, or they can go straight into the draft from there. For example, he played alongside Alex Saar, French guy. He was the number two pick in the draft this year of the Wizards. He also played alongside Rob Dillingham, who played at Kentucky this past year and was the number eight pick in the draft. So that is a very interesting, you're watching, watching a little video of John Jackson handling a rock, moving around at 6'11", 315.

So apparently he's been in the gym lifting for football, considering a switch to football. He was, he was going to still consider pro basketball, but the people at Overtime Elite said, hey, look, if you don't like your prospects for pro basketball, if you'd rather try something that could potentially be really valuable, you could switch to football. And so he started working out training for football, started learning offensive line technique. Basically, every school that got a look at him offered him. So his top five was Arkansas, Florida, Florida State, Mississippi, and Georgia. He had lots of options.

And basically, anybody who would have seen him, if he'd gone to a camp there, they would have offered him. And so he had all kinds of choices, decides to go to Georgia. And obviously the offensive line of Georgia is pretty tough to crack, especially if you haven't played it since middle school. But this is one of those situations where it may or may not work, but if it does work, holy crap. Because if you saw that video of him playing basketball, this guy's a good athlete. Remember, the people he's playing against at Overtime Elite are excellent basketball players, major college level players, NBA potential players. And he's capable of playing with

those guys. He's that good of an athlete. Now, the hype, we're not used to this. Jacksonville State has an offensive lineman who's 6'11 right now. Arkansas had Dan Skipper who played there at 6'10", who plays for the Detroit Lions now. But there are not a lot of offensive linemen, even at the biggest position on the football field, who are that tall. Now, we've seen 6'8", 6'9". Jonathan Ogden was a 6'8", 6'9", offensive lineman who's in the NFL Hall of Fame. So it's doable at that height, but it's hard. You better be a great athlete. You better be able to bend.

But I am fascinated by this because you guys know from listening to this show that every NCAA tournament, half the fun for me is picking out the guys who I think should be playing football. So this is one of those guys. Cannot wait to see what happens with John Jackson. It may not work out. He may end up going back to basketball, playing pro somewhere. But this is a fascinating story to watch. And again, we don't normally cover three-star offensive linemen committing to Georgia. But I believe Kirby Smart has earned the benefit of the doubt with his evaluation skills.

So we'll see what happens with John Jackson. But next up, we go back across the country to Tucson to talk to Brett Brennan, the Arizona football coach who inherited an incredible situation that he had to work to keep incredible because in this day and age, when a coach leaves, you don't just get to inherit their roster. Jed Fish goes to Washington, left behind a great roster at Arizona. But the question when Jed Fish left was how many of these guys are also going to go to Washington? Well, it turns out not very many. Most of that core stayed together at Arizona, giving Brent Brennan a chance to come into the Big 12 and really make some noise. But first, we're going to talk game time.

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All right. Now it is time to talk to the guy who probably did the best recruiting job of his life, keeping the players on his roster. Here's Brent Brennan. We are joined from Tucson by the new head coach of the Arizona Wildcats, Brent Brennan. Coach, we were talking about in your office, it's sort of to the left of your left shoulder uh you've got this wall of photos that is you know all the different points in your career uh when you look at that stuff i mean and then you look at where you are does it hit you how far you've come i mean you were the young guy 2000 ga

in arizona working for dick tommy and now you're running the whole thing yeah it's hard to believe it's hard to believe but it's fun having those pictures up there it's something fun for the players to talk about when they come in or ask questions about um like obviously i got my family up there too so there's lots of questions they have well who's that? Who's that? It's just that kind of fun stuff. We're swapping them out all the time. I'm trying to add current pictures of players here, fun stuff, fun things that we're doing as a team here to keep it fresh. How well have you gotten to know these guys?

You came in in January. It was a wild scenario where Jed Fish leaves because Kalen DeBoer goes to Alabama. And so this was all after the national championship game last year, after the early signing day. How much time have you really had to get to know this group at this point? Well, I'd say we've done a ton of that just because that was so important. People kept asking me like, Hey,

how come you're not offering this 26 quarterback or this class of 25 kids? And I said, well, cause we're, we're actively recruiting the 2024 team in Arizona. You know, they didn't, we didn't just get to know each other and it was fast and furious. And obviously there's a lot of turmoil and they'd had a great season here. And there's a bunch of really good players. And you know, so, you know, I think I was going through that. I was also empathetic with the players because I had just left the team at San

Jose and I know how that felt for me and for our team. And so, you know, we spent a ton of time getting to know each other and we're continuing to do so we're having a lot of fun in the process. So I, I, I saw Noahah pafiti your quarterback when when he won the the steve spurrier award and heard him talk about the decision to stay and the decision to try to rally everybody else into staying how much did you have to work you know on these guys to say look, this is what my program is going to be like. We would love to have you here. But how does that conversation go? Because I imagine you mentioned being empathetic. You just left a job, too. So how do you handle those conversations?

Well, I think the first team meeting I had when I got introduced to the team, I just told them that let's start, let's start out with respecting each other. And over time, I'll earn your trust. And that was a good kind of an easy starting point for us. You know, I didn't come in there talking crazy or like I had all the answers because like I mentioned before, I was feeling, you know, kind of the hard part of leaving San Jose and leaving the players that I had grown close with there. So it was just a matter of spending time with them, you know, and that second day on the job, I know I brought a bunch of players to my office and we just sat and talked for two hours and I just let them ask questions. I said, whatever you want to know, go ahead. And when

we're done, they said, you know, I was like, how was that? Like, oh, that was cool. Thanks, coach. I said, all right. Hey, thank you guys. And then the next day, and then I said, do you guys want to do this again tomorrow? And they said, yeah. And then they came in the next day and it was the same thing. And, you know, they all had, they all had questions and some of them were funny and some of them were like simple, you know, like what color cleats are we going to wear or whatever.

But there was a real, just like trying to accelerate the getting to know each other process and noah fafid is a special kid man like anyone that's ever been around him uh like he is everything that's right about college football everything so he has a show with tetra roy mcmillan your amazing receiver. And they're friends from way back. But I was laughing because they were talking about the decision to stay. And TMAC goes, I just didn't want to move all my shoes. But then Noah says, hey, for an hour there, I was going to Washington. Like I had decided to leave.

And then he said it just sort of to pull on him the idea of maybe maybe if we stay together we all stay together and for the most part they did all stay together and how did that that process go as you were finding out okay they do want to stay yeah that was just an incredible moment when uh because it was Noah and T-Mac grabbed me in my office and said, hey, we want to talk to you. And so they broke it down for me. And it was really, it was really special. And I think the team is incredibly close.

And Coach Fish and that staff did a great job of recruiting quality young men and quality players. And, you know, that connection they felt. And I think also some of the, you know, the trials and tribulations that they've been through, right? They've been through some years of hard football and not playing good football. Then all of a sudden they have this magic year where everything takes off and goes right. And, you know, they're really, really extremely connected.

And I think that part of it was something that they weren't willing to walk away from. As a new staff staff how much does it help when you come in and you're talking about what you just that's within days of you coming in so to find out that you've got that sort of veteran leadership on your team and and it's it's going to be there for you this season no i well i think that's incredible i think you know duane akina had a lot to do with the players staying here, Brett Arcee, some of the young coaches on staff. That carryover really, really helped.

I think also the way the city of Tucson responded at that basketball game to the announcement of all of those defensive backs choosing to stay, all those veteran leaders on defense choosing to stay. And then also Noah and TMAC also that day. That part's really special about this place. It's just how the city of Tucson loves this, you know, loves this university, loves our players. That's really, really special here. And I think they felt that. And I think they knew that was something that they might not be able to guarantee it anywhere else they went. So you had that experience as a young coach where you spent one year as a G.A. for Dick Tomey at Arizona. What would you learn about the school and the city of Tucson in that year?

Well, that was just kind of what I just talked about. That was that's the coolest part is just the the city's you know it has you know pretty big population but it doesn't feel that way it has a really a small town feel um and and so everything in this in the city revolves around the u of a and and that part of it i think is special you know because you're not i just came from a situation where we are sharing that space with four pro franchises and six other universities. And it was a much different, you know, dynamic in that community. But with it here, it's all about this and it's all about Saturdays in the fall, you know, or, you know, basketball games or softball or baseball. I mean, just the city is so into what's happening on this campus. And I think that makes it a really special experience for the players.

Speaking of those players, you mentioned how special Noah is. When you first get TMAC on the practice field, what's going through your mind? I'm just blown away by his, you know, I'm a receiver guy by trade, right? That's what I coached. And, and so I had, you know, remembered him in high school and then watched, you know, we watched every Arizona game we could. My wife's an alum, my brother played here. I was just blown away by his body control and his route running and his ability to finish

on the ball. It's, it's unlike anyone I've ever seen. And, you know, that part of it is exciting because, you know, he's a playmaker, but he's also an intense competitor. And when you combine that stuff, you have a chance to do some incredible things. And, you know, we talked earlier about that group, but I'm not sure people understand how big that group is of guys who were really key players on last year's team who have been and you mentioned they've been through some some tougher times how important is it to have you know third fourth year players who

have played a ton in this era of college football where you know usually the first year coach coming in you just don't have that you're you're not going to get that you're going to have to bring in guys from the portal who may have played somewhere else but not people who played together right i think it's special and i think that speaks to the culture of the previous staff bill here i think speaks to the culture of the university of arizona and then also who those players are right big Jonas Avanea or you know Jacob Manu you know those guys Gunnar Maldonado you know trading Stukes just those guys being so connected and you know really wanting to protect the team and protect the program and that that part of it to watch that right because I'm just kind of a you know maybe a semi-active bystander but uh it was amazing to

watch them do that and and watch them support each other and want to be there for each other and want to keep moving forward together instead of being selfish or individuals and going their own way you know their desire to keep this team intact and to continue to play for the University of Arizona was really really special now you were going into a new league no matter what because you were moving jobs but now your team also going into a new league what does that change for you does it change your recruiting footprint at all because you know you were recruiting california the the arizona you know was recruiting arizona and kind of shifting into Southern California during the Pac-12 days. But does it shift your focus more east or does it kind of stay where it was?

No, I think first and foremost, we have to do an incredible job recruiting the state of Arizona. There's excellent high school football here. There's real talent. And so we have to do a great job in state. But I do think it gives us a chance to push into Texas a little bit. And, you know, that's something that Arizona had done over the years. And I think now that we're going to be playing more games there, it just makes it a lot easier. And I think we need to do a great job in Southern California or excuse me, just California in general.

And there's because the teams in California, they're going to be playing in different places, too. And so I think Arizona can be a great destination for for California kids, because, you know, all the teams that are playing college football in that state are, you know, a lot of them are going to be going far away to play. And what's it like for you and a staff in the offseason as you're getting, you know, to know a whole new bunch of opponents? I mean, is that basically everybody gets assigned some teams and they have the offseason breakdown? Or how much research goes into who you've got to play way before you actually have to play them? You know, that's a good question. I think that's a fine line because I think you can make yourself crazy breaking down games from last year. And teams in today's day and age, teams change so much year to year.

Right. And so and, you know, by the time we get to, you know, conference play, we'll we'll have already played two games. And so I think most of the people were playing. So we're going to have two three games on everybody you know by the time we're getting ready to go and that'll be a better indication of the team those you know our opponents in the big 12 are going to be and so you know we've definitely done our preliminary scouting reports and been through all that but we're going to be much more focused on you know what's happening in this season when we get to the season and really right now and the players I'm driving them crazy with it and our staff, but I'm just – all that matters to me is playing good football against New Mexico week one.

I know that sounds cliche, but I just – you know, you only get to play 13, and they all matter. They all count the same on the final ledger. And you can't do it any other way. And also, neither you nor your your ad desiree francois who just got there were around when when they made that schedule and stuck you guys with at k state and at utah to start conference play so uh you're getting hazed uh by the league and and that's okay though but But you're right. Focus on the Lobos. The other stuff will

take care of itself. Yeah. We'll, we'll always be a one week at a time, you know, football team. I mean, that's just, we're going to, we're going to drill down hard on that. But you're right. And really the other one that's in there is another road game at BYU that's in that same month. And so, you know, that is, you know, three of those four games, you know, I mean, those are four really good teams in a row there. But I also think the conference is really tough. month and so you know that is you know three of those four games you know I mean those are four really good teams in a row there um but I also think the conference is really tough and so you're gonna have to beat good people if you want to be a good team and so we got a lot of work to do so how excited are you to to get back with this team because like we were talking about it you don't really find a lot of teams in

this day and age in the transfer portal era where there is this core so i imagine a lot of the player-led workouts probably go pretty smoothly here uh and and you probably are getting a an improved football team coming back to you when practice starts? Yeah, I would think so just because the leadership of the team is so strong. You know, there's just really good leaders at each position and those guys are really driving the group. And so that part is, I can't wait to get back, right? We'll be back in, you know, full swing in a couple of weeks here, but you know, once you get into it, there's no getting out of it, right?'s it's really putting the onus on them to understand that player-led teams are the are the best teams to be a part of and this time of the year this is their

time to lead and this is their time to push and they they have to do the work and dive into that process to have a chance to get the results they want so you you had some interesting mentors in the business you you worked for dick i mentioned you you were a GA for Dick Tomey, but you also worked for Dick Tomey at San Jose State. And then Mike Riley at Oregon State. How did they help shape who you are as a coach? I think every coach I've ever worked for has, I've learned something from them that has helped shape who I am as a football coach.

I'm grateful for all of those experiences. You know, obviously, the coach told me family tree has been just such a critical group of men for me, but I'm lucky. There's so many guys that like have helped me on this journey. And I feel so fortunate to be able to, you know, be around or to have been around them and coach riley was just fantastic um we had a lot of fun coaching together up at oregon state and uh you know him and coach tommy were so different because mike was such an offensive football guy right i mean yeah that would i mean he was such an offensive guy and where coach tommy was was the other way right so yeah he used to joke and say, you know,

someday during your journey you might get promoted to defense. Like he would tell the team that. Well, and the thing is, like, we've talked about your quarterback and your star receiver. You mentioned Jacob Manu and Gunnar Maldonado earlier. You guys have a lot coming back on defense as well. This is not a team that's always going to have to outscore people. No, we're excited about that defensive group,

and I feel great about the coaching leadership on that side of the ball with Coach Aquino and the defensive staff. And so, you know, we're excited. I think like everybody else this time of year, everyone's incredibly optimistic, and we're excited to get to work and start, you know, kind of figuring out who we are as a football team schematically so that, so that we can, you know,

kind of keep accelerating towards the football season. But yeah, there's some really good players in that defensive front. I think we're going to be excited about. And then also, you know, to Cario Davis, you know, choosing to take himself out of the portal late there was big for him. Cause he's a really talented player player and so there's just a lot of fun there's a lot of fun things that have been happening you know bit by bit as we go through it I think now we're all just kind of getting anxious to start playing football again

well and and how what how stressful was the spring portal window for you because what we talked about earlier was the the one where you know the coaching transition happened but then you had to you had to deal with another one too well did you have to redo all of the the sales pitch you had made or or at that point was like okay you guys are here good yeah i i would say i would say that the head coaching portal was was more stressful than the spring one um you know i think once we again like i mentioned i told them you know know, hopefully I'd earn their trust over time. And that's what we've kind of been doing. And, and as we, you know, as we got on the practice field and as they got a sense of what our meetings are going to be like,

and what our staff's going to be like, and how our staff is going to coach and teach and how we're going to, you know, work together and care about each other. You know, I think that, that helped make the spring portal not as not as big of a deal for for us to work through well that's what uh t-mac and noah had said their first impression of you like that first meeting so nice so nice and mellow so have they seen the non-melo side by now and And they can still handle it. That's good. Yeah, I think that I'm always trying to just be honest with the players that we coach and the people that work with us here. So I just want to be straight up with them

and tell them what we need to do to get better and tell them what I think they're doing well and just give us a chance to believe in each other and build that trust so that we can continue to really push them, really push each other, and hopefully build a championship football team here at Arizona. Now, we mentioned that wall of photos. Right now, of the ones you got up, what's your favorite? Well, I got to say it's the one of my wife and I, right?

That's the slam dunk, right say it's it's the one of my wife and i right that's the slam dunk right that's the that's layup easy beautiful you passed the test that's we're gonna make sure it wasn't you and snoop dogg now the one of you and snoop dogg's with your son so that's that's good too yeah i do have a family in that one that's true well you guys are business partners now because he's he's sponsoring the arizona bowl so they got a bowl in your stadium well yeah i mean you have to understand right for a 50 year old dude that was you know his music was you know a huge part of my life uh it's it's pretty cool to have that bowl game coming here and to have him sponsor it so i'm fired up for that i think that'll be a great thing for arizona well that's what you're playing for ucla

as he is breaking huge and you know he's the biggest star in la at that point so that's a and you and you recruited his son right when when you were at oregon state i did what's what's the sales pitch like with to snoop dog the dad he was awesome when when he and i were talking about cordell it was all football he it was great it was it was actually it was it was a struggle for me because i couldn't be a fan i just had to be a be a football coach and and i'm talking to a dad and that's what it was and we had great conversations and uh he was he's a he's for someone who is as larger than life as snoop is he has this amazing uh friendly kind of like joyful demeanor smiles laughs like he's just a

great guy to be around what's the toughest question he asked you as a potential coach for his son he asked me if i'd cuss out his kid really yeah the man has sworn a lot in public it was it was it was great like i said he was a dad like he was a dad that wanted to know his son was going to be coached and and that his son was going to be pushed it was it was an awesome it was a good good experience getting to know him that is that and it's funny i guess i'm asking you because it's snoop dogg but i i've not thought about it that way that probably is it the most intense part of recruiting? Some of the questions you get from mom and dad? Yeah, I think so. I think especially now, as we've kind of entered into this new world

of transfer portal and NIL and all those things, you know, but I also think at the end of the day, parents want to know that that I'm going to care about their son right that he's going to graduate from school that we're going to help him develop off the field as much as we are on and so those those aren't too hard I have I mean I've been doing it a long time now right so I've gotten some fun ones over the years um some funny questions you know where you want to be respectful so you're trying you know you're trying not to laugh really but um it's no names what's what's what's the question you got that you're just like i don't even know if i could answer this yeah i know i i had someone

ask me if they could run on the field with the team apparent i mean if it's snoop yeah sure little wayne did it with colorado last year there you have it yes it was it was not it was not snoop it was not him i don't think he would do that i that you know i think that kind of probably depends on the level of player we're talking about you might you might be able to run that up the flagpole if you're an assistant that's right i did not on that one i was like no we're not doing that yeah that's awesome coach thank you so much and uh good luck in in las vegas with uh with all the questions you're gonna get a big 12 media day i'm looking forward to it. It'll be great. That is Brent Brandon from Arizona. You will see him tomorrow at Big 12 Media Days.

But we had him here first. Now, we turn to a legend. A legend in the business. The great Steve Wiltfong, Vice President of Recruiting and Transfer Portal here at On3. Mr. Wiltfong, president of recruiting and transfer portal here at on three mr wiltfong how are we doing good morning andrew what's happening brother oh not a whole bunch it's it's quiet here but it is busy in ann arbor the last time i had you on i asked you about michigan's recruiting and you said listen the reason it didn't just pick up immediately when sharon moore took over is a lot of people wanted to kind of see Michigan on their own timetables. Well, it seems like a lot of those decisions coming home to roost.

Yesterday, they got two pieces of good news. Yeah, they landed Ivan Taylor flipping the three industry top 100 defensive back from Notre Dame. And they also landed one of the more exciting tight end prospects in the country, Andrew Olesch beating Alabama at Penn State for him. Michigan's got the number 11 recruiting class in the country right now, Andy. And again, as you said at the beginning, sometimes recruiting is timing. And the guys that Michigan was recruiting, this is a timetable for their decision. And the Wolverines are now landing some of their top targets.

And they got a few more big ones out there. Guys like five-star offensive tackle Andrew Babalola, who I think they're in the top two or three, four as they battle Stanford, Missouri, Oklahoma's in there. And Andrew Marsh is a on three industry top 100 receiver from the Lone Star State that took an official visit in June. I think Michigan is trending for him as well. They also are the program to beat for one of the fastest receivers in the country out of Louisiana. A young man that they've had on campus a couple of times. And Philip Wright III. Ron Bellamy, Michigan's receivers coach, is from Louisiana.

He's got sub-10.5 speed in the 100-meter dash. Makes me think of a guy like Roman Wilson, who was so dynamic for Michigan in their run to the national championship. He's got that kind of speed, that kind of juice, would be a big pickup for Michigan. A guy that's kind of under the radar, not highly recruited nationally like some of these other receivers, but a major skill set, a lot of traits, and Michigan's got that track record of getting the best out of their players.

Well, and so under the Sharon Moore administration, has evaluation changed has has targeting changed are they are they looking at a different type of of player since Jim Harbaugh left or is it still pretty much the method that Jim Harbaugh and company were using when when he was in charge yeah I think when you look at this Michigan recruiting class you see a lot of size length upside I mean you take quarterback Carter Smith six foot three 190 pounds out of Fort Myers, Florida. He is the Gatorade Player of the Year in the Sunshine State, a guy who, when he was coming up, was one of the best shortstops in the country in his age division, has now shifted his focus to football. His dad was a pro baseball player, good athletic pedigree,

one of the top dual-threat quarterbacks in the country. He's a guy that I could see being a real problem for defenses down the road at Michigan. But Nate Marshall, Jalen Williams are a couple of defensive linemen in the fold for the Wolverines that are six foot five with a lot of length, a lot of size potential to continue playing that dominant style of football. They like to play up front on the defensive line. Yeah, I'm very interested to see how this evolves as you get further away from Jim Harbaugh being there. But with Sharon Moore, I just kind of trust the development up front. It doesn't seem like that's going to change. Well, huge shoes to fill for this entire coaching staff. You're talking about Michigan losing their

head coach, Jim Harbaugh. They lose their offensive coordinator. They lose their defensive coordinator. They lose their strength and conditioning coach from the last regime. But a lot of the hires are from within. And they don't lose their offensive coordinator. Sharon Moore gets promoted. And then they promote from within with coach Kirk Campbell. But again, a lot of changing of the guard, but a lot of guys that were around that were integral parts of Michigan, winning three straight Big Ten championships and obviously winning the national championship

this past year. But these are the guys that are now the shot callers in their respective rooms. So it'll be exciting to see what they're able to do as Michigan turns the page into the 2024 era. Yeah, 2025. Yeah, 2024 season. You're in 2025 mode.

I understand. That always screws me up because I'm always working a year in advance based on the recruiting class year, right? Well, it's interesting because I feel like we're now very deep into the recruitment of the class of 2025. We came out with our updated rankings this week.

What's that like? What is a ranking update week like for you? Are you just bombarded by people saying, how could you drop so-and-so? And how could you have this guy ahead of this guy? Well, there is a loud minority that thinks that there's a conspiracy for their team or their program. But Charles Power, Cody Belair, I'm a small part of it. Doing the best we can to get these guys in the best spots to kind of predict where they're going to go in the NFL draft. And just because, hey, there's guys that we love as high school players.

There's guys that we think as high school players. There's guys that we think will be difference makers in college. But then when you start taking their body types and comparing them to NFL draft history and players on that next level, they don't check that box. So maybe they're ranked a little lower. And then people are like, well, I don't care what their NFL ranking is going to be. I care what their college ranking is going to be because that's what I'm following. Well, it goes hand in hand. Teams with the best pro prospects, the teams with the most NFL draft picks, they generally are the ones that are the best teams on Saturday.

So, yeah, that's kind of the way we do things. But there's no conspiracies. And then obviously, Chad Simmons and I, you know, we put's no conspiracies. And then obviously Chad Simmons and I, we put out these rankings updates. So with that, we're trying to kind of rehash and remind our readers the latest intel on these prospects processes. So we had the five-star scoop yesterday. Today, we'll have some intel on where things stand with the remaining top 100 guys that are uncommitted or perhaps will decommit down the road or pondering a potential flip. We'll have all that on the site later today.

I am glad you mentioned that because it does seem like decision days are coming up for several people. DJ Pickett, the safe, or well, DB from Zephyr Hills, he plays corner at like 6'4", but he's making a decision next week. What do you think happens there? Well, some teams have talked about him playing on both sides of the ball. He is a dynamic wide receiver on the prep level with a skillset to be a blue chip wide out as well. Oregon's one of those programs that's had that dialogue with him. Certainly again, corner is where he's coveted, but the ducks are trending right now. In my opinion, I is where he's coveted, but the Ducks are trending right now, in my opinion. They got to hold off Miami and LSU here over the next week or so, but I like the way

this is setting up for Oregon. Oregon's got the number three recruiting class in the country. That's where they finished a cycle ago, so Dan Lanning and that staff showing that they have the chops to recruit at a high level. There's a lot of resources and backing behind the Ducks program as well right now. Yeah, it's interesting because we've seen them make a jump where it feels like this class they're putting together looks like what we've seen out of Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State over the past few years, and those are the ones that compete for national titles where was that because it feels like Mario Cristobal was recruiting well when he was the

the coach at Oregon but it feels like it's it's gone up another notch under Dan Lanning is that strictly because of NIL or is it because this staff is able to to kind of convince these guys to come because they live a lot farther away from the best players than a lot of these other schools do. No, Mario Cristobal and his staff did a good job in Eugene, and that turned into the Miami job for him, his dream job to go back to his alma mater and try and restore glory to Miami. Dan Lanning and company get to Oregon and take over a program that was winning double-digit football games,

and they did a good job in the transfer portal right away, landing a difference makers on the defensive line. Nobody's done a better job of getting quarterbacks out of the transfer portal than this Oregon staff from Bo Nix to Dylan Gabriel to Dante Moore. And then certainly they've got guys like Evan Stewart, you know, former five-star receiver who was at Texas. Who's now at Oregon. They're trying to

make the same jump this year that Washington made under Kalen DeBoer. Oregon's a team that they've been in that college football playoff conversation and just couldn't beat the Huskies. But they keep at it. They're recruiting at a high level, hit the portal again hard this past cycle, and they'll take another swing this year. And they're certainly one of the programs that you say is on the short list to compete for a national championship. And with the way they're recruiting, you figure they're going to be in this mix for a long time under Coach Lanning and the staff. We're watching DeCorey and Moore's fireworks going off on July 4th. One other question about an uncommitted five-star plus, David Sanders Jr., one of the best

offensive linemen in the country. He's deciding August 17th. Where do you see this one trending? Yeah. Five-star plus, for those of you that don't know, means it's a five-star ranking on all four industries. David Sanders has that. one offensive tackle per the on three industry, number two player over the all. I give the inch to Ohio State right now, but this recruitment still has over a month. And I wouldn't be surprised if he took a couple more visits in July to get back to see some of his finals, get back around him again as he and his family worked through this decision. David Sanders, not only a premier football prospect, the reigning Gatorade player of the year in the state of North Carolina after helping Providence State win another state championship, but he's also a plus student.

He's got aspirations to be an orthopedic surgeon, sports medicine major. That's very important to him too. And I think on his last visit to Ohio State, his official the weekend of June 21st, he got to spend a lot of time in the hospital over there, rubbing elbows with doctors, talking about what that Ohio State network means in that city. Being from Charlotte, going to Columbus, I think that's something that would be seamless for him and his family. Likes Ohio State's track record of player development, guys like Parrish Johnson. He really fits in with the guys on the team, fits in with the recruits in the class, a lot of like-minded things there.

Wealth of potential, as mom said, about Ohio State for her son, David, there. So I know that they really like Ohio State. Tennessee's the other program that we've been watching closely. He's been there four times this calendar year, including their 865 live event, their spring game, his official visit in the summer. He's done a day in the life of a student athlete at Tennessee. He's got a great feel for them, likes the way they developed Darnell Wright into a top 10 pick in the NFL draft. So those are the two programs that I think are in the best position.

But Georgia and Nebraska round out the final four. And there have been times earlier in the process where I thought Georgia has led. You can't sleep on them for the stage they play on, the player development. And then Nebraska is kind of the program that's been quietly rising. They originally didn't make his top six. Then he takes an official visit there over Mother's Day weekend. And now they're still in the running where teams like Clemson and South Carolina and Alabama are no longer in the picture.

And one of the things that turned him on to Nebraska was he said that seeing Dylan Rayola flip from Georgia to Nebraska at the end of last cycle. He's been building a relationship with Dylan Rayola. They had a really good official visit there. And Nebraska's got a lot of backing and resources to their football program right now as they try and restore some glory in Lincoln under Matt Ruhle and company. Andy, I think we've talked about this before. Nebraska is one of the more fascinating teams for me this year, because if you look at them the last four or five years, they've lost every single close game. All of them. Every one score game has gone the other way. Yeah, and if you turn that around, it looks different.

It's unbelievable. The Minnesota game last year was just another reminder of what that's been like for them. So Matt Rule and company trying to turn a culture around to win some close ball games. And you do that, and it changes the whole mentality around the building and the program. Before we let you go, there's a really interesting question in the chat from Rick. And I realize this is kind of general, but I'm curious about how you feel like this has evolved over the years. So this is what Rick asked. What is the flip potential today for any commit versus five or even 10 years ago? Likelihood of a flip percentage wise? I realize

it's individual based, but is it more likely now? Is it less likely now? Has it changed over the past five, 10 years? I don't have the data, but I just feel like I've been covering recruiting for 16 years or so and flips have been relevant the whole time. Now, I do remember early on, it used to drive people crazy. And a lot of people that never walked in the shoes of these prospects and their families just thought, again, it was a loud minority. It just thought it was just ridiculous that a young man would change his mind. Yeah. But look, man, these college coaches, they don't get these jobs by accident. They are alpha, very persuasive. You need to talk to these coaches. They'll give you a reason to

believe that they're the best players for you to play for. Seasons get played, information changes, other guys commit, guys get hurt, players emerge on depth charts. There's all kinds of factors, coaches moving around. There's all kinds of factors, coaches moving around. There's all kinds of factors that change recruitments. And that's just the landscape that we're in. But I think it's always happened. And if you kind of go back and read old stories, like Ronnie Brown was at the on three elite series and he went to Auburn. I didn't realize he was committed elsewhere before Auburn. It was a different era. We didn't cover it as hard back then either. I think that was part of it too.

Sure. The point remains the same. It's happened. It's always happened. It's just now the interest in recruiting has gone up each year. There's a lot more eyeballs. These prospects, they used to only be known by the absolute diehards. Now, strong college football fans know who Jeremiah Smith is or DeCorean Moore, where 10 years ago, they didn't. So there's a lot more media coverage on it, which just puts a lot more eyeballs on them there was a time where these guys were only known by their local papers and tom lemming and alan wallace so this this industry has has really grown and and uh it's just all it's fascinating to sometimes even hear like how the media is perceived in in in football recruiting media because again you know these prospects they're they're blown up because of the recruiting media and the

amount of people. And I'm not talking about just the big ones on three 24-7 rivals in ESPN, but just so many fan sites and things that are putting these kids out there in such a positive light. They've become more nationally known and the interest in it is is phenomenal as college football continues to grow and grow yeah it is very interesting and you know the other flip part of it that the people don't realize is a lot of times back in one signing day arrow and it was just February there were there were guys getting clipped from classes by the coaching staff late but you can't say that nobody would ever say that it would be. And then they're, they're trying, they flipped.

Now they didn't flip. They just needed to go find somewhere else to play. So it's, I think there's just more information. Like we know what's going on and we're passing that along to everybody now. And I think there's a better, better view of the whole picture. Now there's a, there was an old coach at Iowa, Eric Johnson, who now I think he runs a bunch of Colters, got out of the game. That's right. Yes.

But he told me, he's like, before the internet era hit with rivals that Shannon Terry started, he's like, I could tell a player on the East Coast, he was our number one defensive lineman. A player in the Midwest, he was our number one defensive lineman. And a player on the West, he was our number one defensive lineman, a player in the Midwest he was our number one defensive lineman, and a player on the West he was our number one defensive lineman. But now they all can't read it, so they kind of have to change their lingo a little bit, you know?

It is amazing. And now he's selling milkshakes. Demand never goes down for those. Tony Levine with the Chick-fil-A is in Houston. You got your call. What, what fast food restaurant are you starting when you, when you get out of the business?

Oh man. I mean, so Ray Mickens, I covered his son who went to Clemson. He played in the NFL for a long time. It's taught me a lot about defensive back evaluation. Just super smart guy. That's coached at all the Nike camps and stuff.

He's got a bunch of Chick-fil-A's going on, and I've just always been jealous. He's like, those airport Chick-fil-A's kill. And once you get in, you start to learn how to move and shake there. Chick-fil-A's, I never not see a line around the building at Chick-fil-A. That's the one. Steve Wolfong, it has been my pleasure. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Take care. All right. That's the great Steve Wolfong. Let's address some of this stuff because Rocky Top Tom is super mad because George McIntyre, the quarterback committed to Tennessee, dropped in the rankings. I guarantee you if David Sanders signs at Tennessee, he'll immediately be downplayed. Immediately. I guarantee you if David Sanders signs to Tennessee,

he'll immediately be downplayed. Immediately. I guarantee you he won't. I'm willing to make that bet. You want to bet five bucks on that now, Rocky Top Tom? I think the industry has pretty much decided on how they feel about David Sanders Jr. He's pretty damn good.

So no, if he commits to Tennessee on Augustust 17th his rating won't immediately drop promise ryan in the chat is mad about steve explaining that the rankings are based on projections for the nfl draft does he have a crystal ball it doesn't make any sense guys we're covering recruits you have to try to predict when we cover guys leaving college for the draft we try to predict what they will be that's the whole point of this and yes it is based on where you think somebody's going to go in the NFL draft, because as Steve said, and this makes the most sense, if you have the most NFL players on your

team, specifically the most highly drafted NFL players on your team, you have a very good chance of winning the national title, much better chance than anybody else. Case in point, Michigan last year, case in point, Georgia the two years before, case in point, all of those Alabama national champions. There's a direct correlation. It's not rocket surgery, people. Of course, that's the easiest way to do it. Now, what it does in the rankings, and I understand this, where this might make college football fans mad, is it does sort of devalue certain positions because the NFL draft devalues certain positions. Running backs have been devalued in the NFL draft. So to be a five-star running back is much harder now than it

was 20 years ago. Ryan Willings has never heard the phrase rocket surgery. Somebody please explain. All right. So it does change the evaluation a little bit because there are certain positions that are not valued as much. The interior offensive lineman, it's harder to be a five-star center, harder to be a five-star guard. But I do think it's generally a great way to evaluate. And because having the best players, the most potential NFL players, the most potentially highly drafted NFL players correlates directly with winning in college football. So that's the reason we do it the way we do it. And I realize it makes some people mad and I realize you don't like it when the rankings change, but it is based on in-person evaluation. Like there's going to be another rankings update after people's senior season. And it'll happen as they're signing with their

schools. And you'll say, well, you did this because they signed with this school. No, it's because we watched everybody again and reevaluated. And it's a constant evaluation. And no, it's not perfect. Sometimes five stars don't pan out sometimes three stars become first round nfl draft picks that happens when when people go from age 17 to age 22 things change but so far it's a pretty good system and yes it gives us something to talk about some argue about some days you like it some days you hate it that's okay we're gonna keep doing it guys it has been a pleasure talking season begins today big 12 media days getting underway early in the afternoon on the east coast late in the morning

on the west coast brett your mark takes the stage at 1 p.m eastern time cannot wait to hear some actual football content we got half the coaches in the big 12 going today we got players from those big 12 teams cannot wait we'll talk to you tomorrow