Andy & Ari On3 - Clemson Tigers 2025 preview: Another National Title for Dabo Swinney?

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

Happy July! As we turn the calendar to July, today is the day On3 and Rivals join forces together. To celebrate this iconic day, we welcome on Larry Williams from TigerIllustrated.com, the top website for all things Clemson. In this episode, Andy & Ari go in-depth on the Tigers with Larry. Is Clemson ready to win the ACC and make a deep run in the playoffs? How does the schedule shake out for the Tigers with 2 SEC schools on the schedule? What will the stakes be in the Palmetto Bowl? All these questions answered - and more on today's episode! More on Clemson here: https://tigerillustrated.com/ (0:00-0:34) Intro: Welcome Rivals!(0:35-2:54) Larry Williams joins(2:55-7:29) Clemson's 2025 Season ahead(7:30-11:44) Clemson's Defense - confidence in team?(11:45-17:36) Resembling the super teams from 2015-2019?(17:37-20:46) Clemson's Transfer Portal additions(20:47-23:31) Clemson's Schedule, LSU Opener(23:32-25:17) Success in 2025 is _____(25:18-28:59) Clemson vs South Carolina(29:00-34:47) Is Dabo misunderstood?(34:48-38:25) Clemson's Success and the Next Era(38:26-43:42) What is after this season?(43:43-44:54) Conclusion; See you tomorrow! Watch us LIVE on YouTube, M-F at 9:30 am et! https://www.youtube.com/@On3sports Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari WassermanProducer: River Bailey Interested in partnering with the show? Email [e-mail] 

Welcome to Andy and Ari on three. The calendar has turned, which means it is time for a big, big day. Ari, it is July 1st, which means on three and rivals are now together. because it means some of my longtime friends in this business get to join us on the show very regularly. And one of those guys is coming on today. We're doing deep dive week, different team every day. Today it's the Clemson Tigers. It means Larry Williams from Rivals Tiger Illustrated joins us today. Larry, welcome. Exciting day, guys.

Thank you all for having me. Really appreciate it. Oh this is this is so exciting because you and I texted like the moment the news came out that this was all gonna happen you and I were texting like okay we finally get to work together. For those who don't know Tiger Illustrated is the leading source for Clemson News. Larry has it wired there in Clemson. Nothing happens without him knowing. Dabo can't even sneeze without Larry knowing. And now you get access to all that as well.

You know, go ahead, Ari. No, I'm excited to have you here. I think that, you know, it's like the Jay JZ dynasty, like, you know, hand motion. I feel like it's good to get some of the best sites in the country all under one roof. And obviously Clemson and Tiger Illustrated is the epitome of that. And I'm humbled and happy that you're here. So thanks so much for being here, Larry. Well, glad to be here.

And I need to thank you, Ari, because you've given me some recent content the last few weeks with you being so high on Clemson. It's been quite a reversal, I think, with some of the national media voices, you know, who in recent years, I guess, the last three or four years with some fair questions and skepticism But this has been like the summer of love for Clemson It's uh, I think their fans are happy to see it, but maybe a little uncomfortable because they still have to go out and prove it you know but it's I think it's pretty well founded just given the the not just the experience they have but the the the experience talent that they bring back. Andy, I think it's

interesting. He said thank you to me for off season content. I'm wondering, did I get a thank you in any of the previous off seasons where I was very negative? Or do you like like content? Maybe it's all you know, any news is good news. Uh, and I will tell you the reason why I bring that up Larry is because I was probably the forefront or the flag carrier of this Clemson dynasty's finished um and I've had to come around to maybe being wrong about that and I think that this is a very fascinating season for Clemson in that not only do they have maybe one of the best, most well-rounded rosters in college football from a talent and experience perspective, but they actually have an opportunity to prove, in my mind, that you can build a roster, build a national championship caliber team, doing it the old-fashioned way, when I was starting to doubt whether that was possible. So do you have any context on how people in Clemson are viewing that? And do you think this is an important year for Dabo, not just, you know, because expectations are always high in Clemson, but to prove to the fans who have questioned whether doing it his way is still the right way, can continue to move forward into this world peacefully or at peace knowing that Dabo's got it under control?

Yeah, and let's be clear here. Dabo has, his way of doing things probably resonates more now than it did a few years ago to the outside world, but he did adapt in a number of ways. He did go to the portal to find a big name defensive end. They did allocate that much money, a lot of money to go on and getting Will Held.

And he did make changes to his staff. A number of sort of inside the bubble here, Clemson fans, it was in recent years when you promote Wes Goodwin, which I believe is the most outside the box hire probably in college football history, maybe in sports history. Maybe that's exaggerating, but to replace someone of the stature of Brent Venables with someone who had almost zero

stature of Wes Good the program, made a clear shift in that way, getting Garrett Riley after he fired Brandon Streeter after the 2022 season. Also, Chris Rumpf, Matt Luke, Nick Easton came several years ago. But then, in addition to that, of course, Tom Allen, he's able to make a change there and able to get arguably the top candidate out there. So I think it was some of the criticisms were fair and they weren't just from folks like you Ari. You know, you had fans wondering like, are we ever going to truly go into the portal, you know, and to address some needs and their inability or I guess unwillingness maybe to do that a year ago ended up hurting them because you move Peter Woods out to end last season and that really didn't work in large part because of injury. Woods got hurt in the second game when he

suffered a scary knee injury that set him back for a good part of the season. So I think it's a combination but we're all sort of rewiring our brains as this goes. We're still in the early stages of this. And so there's no like blueprint, I guess, no one sort of cookie cutter way to do it. But I do think, and you're seeing Kirby Smart and others really emphasize that, hey, it's harder to have the depth you used to have,

impossible probably, and so there's much more merit it seems given at present to hey, get culture guys who are gonna not be looking for the for the next opportunity if they get chewed out or if they get demoted. They're gonna be there for, you know, committed to be in there for several years. And so I think that part, I think it has been, we've all been sort of enlightened, the college football populace has been enlightened of late

as the more transactional way of doing business. The cons of that, I think, have started to sort of, you started to see those more as we go along. I'm glad you mentioned that about the West Goodwin hire because it was very strange to see an analyst getting hired to replace one of the best defensive coordinators in college football. And I feel like we saw why that didn't work.

I think the Texas game, Clemson's last game is a really good example of that. Here on offense, you have Clemson's offense going up and down the field on a very good Texas defense. But every time Texas gets the ball, Clemson, which has good players on defense, is just getting shredded. And my thing, like my confidence in Clemson this year stems more from them hiring Tom Allen than anything. Yeah.

And look at what Texas, you know, Texas obviously had a really good, potentially great offensive line and they were able to run the ball against a lot of people. But look at what they did or didn't do, run the ball against Georgia. Georgia ate them up. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but they didn't run the ball at all against the Bulldogs. But beyond that, they didn't run the ball against Arizona State or Ohio State either. So you look at, I mean, they just carved Clemson up. It was just when the guys aren't getting touched, when the running, when Wisner isn't getting touched until he gets seven yards past the line of scrimmage, it's trouble.

And so I think that, Andy, combined with the inability to stop or corral or get Lenora Sellers on the ground in the final game of the regular season. Those two, you could argue that the South Carolina game sealed his fate before they even got to Austin. I don't know that, but I think it's plausible. Made know, made some weird decisions in the fourth quarter of that game and man I'm not taking anything away from Sellers. I'm as high on him probably as you two are. That dude is just a freaking nature but took Sammy Brown off the field in the fourth quarter against South Carolina.

Went smaller which I don't know if that's the thing to do given that South Brown off the field in the fourth quarter against South Carolina went smaller, which I don't know if that's the thing to do given that South Carolina then reacted to that and went bigger, put another tight end on the field and started running quarterback power left quarterback power, right, right, right. And then sellers just does what he's done to a lot of people. But Tom Allen is the, I think his command, his expertise, his attention to detail, maybe simplifying some things. He made a huge difference. It's almost like he's another head coach on the field.

If you talk to anybody who's watched practice, who's been behind the scenes, they say he's like another head coach and not taking anything away from Wes Goodwin, but his lack of command, the lack of a voice, I guess, really stood in such stark contrast to the guy he replaced in Brent Venables.

And now here we are with Tom Allen. And who's the guy you hear most often as the comparison as people are observing Allen. It's wow, he kind of sounds like BV out there and acts like that. And so that doesn't necessarily mean he's going to, you know, have the best defense in the country and get back to what they did under Brent Venables. But I think it gives you a heck of a lot better chance to when you have that type of presence.

So I know Andy is pretty high on the fact that they went out and, you know, now have an offensive and defensive coordinator who didn't come up entirely through the Clemson ranks and the adaptation of, of, you know, having to make hires in that regard. You want to know what I'm most excited about? They've got good players at just about every position. Like that's what moves, that's what fills my love tank. And then I look at the linebacker position,

I think that they've got one of the best defensive lines in the country. Got two young receivers, I've got a quarterback we're excited about. Can you contextualize just being around Clemson the last however many years? In 2016, 17, 18, 19, 20, they were amongst one of the most talented teams in the country. I think that you can make the real case that that wasn't the case the last three years. Does this Clemson team from your vantage point resemble some of those superpowers from the CFP dominance era? Granted, I know that Deshaun Watson and Trevor Lawrence are very hard shoes to fill.

Do you think that a national championship competing team is the realistic expectation for Clemson this year? You said last three years, actually last four years. Last four, yeah. Twenty-one. That's been nice.

What's that? That's been nice for nice. For once. Although I will say and Dabo really chafes at this. He's like, yeah, everybody thinks we've been some awful team the last four years. They haven't been. I mean, they won two ACC titles, won a lot of games. When you average 10 wins a year, they seldom did that before Dabo arrived, okay? And so I think, you know, I think he justifiably gets a little irritated at that, just given how hard it is to win as many games as they have.

Now, he did set the bar higher, and that's what he's being measured against. Yeah, that's, he's being measured against being a team that can perennially win the national title, right? Like because it's spoiled by that right like winning ten games a year definitely an improvement from the 90s But we're not we're not trying to be like the 90s We're trying to be like the 16 17 18 19 teams, right? Like isn't that you are they are But there there still has to be the caveat, acknowledge that from 15 to 20, do you know how many stars had to align

for them to be that dominant? And I'm gonna get to your point here, agreeing with you, but I mean, how many schools out there, not only get a Deshaun Watson, but then soon thereafter get a Trevor Lawrence, right? I mean, that's just unheard of because most of the five-star quarterbacks out there, it's like a crapshoot with that game, you know.

And so to have two generational players, quarterbacks back to back, is just such a rare deal. You know, they capitalize on Georgia being relatively down under Mark Rick. They got both Lawrence and Deshaun out of Georgia, among many other players. You had generational defensive linemen, generational receivers, Christian Wilkins, Dexter Lawrence, T Higgins, Destin Ross, Mike Williams, Sammy Watkins came before that. And still the point is the stars aligned in a really kind of special way. But to that point, late last season, this was actually after the loss of South Carolina,

when just about everyone around here was just, you know, despondent and not really looking forward to the ACC championship against SMU. I went back and looked at that game at the offense against South Carolina and you started to see them, the passing game, look like what it used to look like when Deshawn and Trevor were throwing passes to all those receivers I just named. And the, the, really the, the staple of the passing game in those days was those opposite hash throws to the wide side of the field that are very difficult to pull off. Especially because the people catching those passes were aliens. Exactly. And you were talking like 20, 25 yard routes that they did in their sleep back when Deshawn and Trevor were throwing to Mike Williams and T Higgins and Justin Ross and others, you started to see that materialized and against South Carolina, K Club, Nick Throw and to Wesco and TJ Moore, two freshmen and

this against a really salty South Carolina defense. And so I actually, I was one of the few around here who said, you know, I think they can beat SMU. I actually picked them to beat SMU. Not that my picks are usually worth a damn, but the point is, I was trying to tell people like, look, this looks like the beginnings of something. And so you saw that in the ACC Championship game, and I think that in Austin,

in the playoff game against Texas, even though you lose that game by 14 points, I think that's where most of the outside world started to see, wow, this looks different. This looks like it did a long time ago. And I think maybe for the team itself for the players themselves, like, that was a pretty salty Texas defense as well. Um, the fact they were able to do it against those guys, um, it,

it, I'm not going to say it is what it was back during the golden era, but it's the same recipe. And then you combine that with what is expected to be arguably the best defensive line in the country with TJ Parker, Peter Woods, and so on will help Demonte Capehart. And you start to say, okay, yeah, I think this team, you start to, it starts to become more realistic, the thought that this team could, could, could contend for a national title. And the fact that they went and because look Dabo didn't really

turn his back on on his philosophy but he did go into the portal and get some guys that fit what they needed at the moment. Like Wilhelm allows you to make sure Peter Woods plays where he's supposed to play and Wilhelm might be one of the better players in the country off the edge. They go get Tristan Smith. After the portal six foot five receiver, you know from a smaller school from Southeast Missouri State, but like where does he fit in with those guys that Clemson signed that are now, you know turning into what they thought they were going to be. It's interesting, Smith, even without him, they're very dynamic with their receivers,

but they don't necessarily have the guy who you, on those throws that I mentioned, you throw it up and they're gonna go up and get it, the jump ball type of throws. The Mike Williams or the T Higgins. Yeah. I think there's, in my mind, I separate, there's a separation between the back shoulder, the back shoulder tight and the go up and get it tight. Maybe I'm making too fine a point of it, but Smith is that long lanky guy who I think, not T Higgins, not Mike Williams, but the

jump ball type. And they threw him into the fire in the spring game. And I know spring games have been watered down and all that, but Clemson actually considered it important. And Dabo used that as sort of a stage to throw him out there because he's not, I mean, hell, Smith's not used to playing in front of whatever it was, 15, 20,000 fans that were there in the spring game, big stadium and all that. And he lit it up, he caught everything in sight.

And so I think Dabo walked away from the spring game saying, man, we really got something here. And they had already thought that through the course of spring practice, but I think what they saw in the spring game really solidified it. And so he's just another piece, I think. Another thing about those old receiving cores was they had all types of

They had different body types, you know, yeah, you didn't just have T Higgins you had I'm Ari Rod. Ari Rogers our Davis Scott Hunter Renfro. Oh my gosh. I can't believe I can't believe it took me that long to Mention his name, you know And so I think they have a lot of different pieces to move around to get the right matchups and who, you know, the type of players who, you know, you get them one on one and they're going to go make a play regardless of whether it's over the middle, back shoulder, jump ball. They got a lot of variety.

And it's crazy how quickly the narrative about this receiving corps has changed because this time a year ago it was like, good grief, can they just be pretty good? That was the big question. They had been beset with injuries though, an uncommon number of injuries over those previous few years. But now it feels like a much different story. So let's talk schedule because obviously the LSU game gives them an immediate challenge where this is LSU is looking at like a playoff or bust type team, but should be a good SEC

team regardless of whether they meet their own expectations or not, but should be an adequate challenge right out of the gate. Is it going to be one of those things where though, if they don't beat LSU, Clemson fans go, oh no, you know, it's happening again, or is this more of an understanding of this could be two playoff teams going at it? I think the context is probably would be what dictates the emotions and probably irrational emotions in that case. Simply given they just lost to South Carolina and to open last season, they got curb stomped by Georgia. Of course, after that Georgia game in the opener last year, you know, everybody's like, including me, this looks like the same old stuff here. You know, Dabo said afterward and he told the team, you know, I saw something here,

you know, I saw, you know, y'all held up. And that's what I wanted to know was could y'all held up and that's what I wanted to know was could y'all hold up physically and this and that? So I think if you tell me LSU comes into Death Valley, Clemson's Death Valley and wins, you know, while of course objectively and pragmatically, they clearly, it's not a season ender, especially when you're in the ACC. I think if you ask me what the takeaways from the fan base will be, it's okay. Yeah, after all that talk in the off season, after we won the off season, we end up not holding up our end of the bargain at home against

an LSU team that hasn't won an opener since what? 2019. I think that would be the immediate takeaway. And as we know, immediate takeaways from fans are often a bit overheated. You know, uh, it's interesting though, because there is rational and there is rational and sometimes I'm on both ends of the spectrum here just asking Andy. But my question about that is, and Andy by the way, we have an all-time banger of Meltdown no matter who wins or loses that game. Oh yeah, 100%. It's a great Meltdown game. It's like Florida Miami last year, like it doesn't even matter who wins.

Everything that Larry just said, LSU fans will say if they lose. So it's the same thing for both sides. But I want to get your rational expectation for what you view a success this year for Clemson. What does Clemson absolutely have to do coming in or in 2025 for you to go into the summer of 2025 feeling like that went well and things are in the right direction. I'm going to say make, obviously make the playoff and advance, win at least the game. Does that sound fair? I say playing for the national championship, man, it's just hard. Like the ball bounces weird ways. You can have an injury here or there.

I mean, look at Penn State. They outplay Notre Dame in the first half of that game and are on their way and then aren't able to do it. I think, does that sound fair? Get to the playoff. Win the ACC again. Get to the playoff. Win a game.

They lose a lot after this year, a ton. So it's kind of like end of an era type of deal get to the playoff, win a game. You know, they lose a lot after this year, a ton. So it's kind of like end of an era type of deal with a lot of their figurehead signature players. They're going to be in some type of rebuilding mode next year. So, but I would just, I think that's my feeling right now. I think that's fair. I think. That's my feeling right now would be. I think that's fair.

I think that's rational and I think that that should be the baseline or fundamental expectation for everybody because this is a different situation than it used to be in the four team era right like even for Georgia. I think you can get the wrong path in the playoff like Oregon last year. Oregon had a good season last year.

These ran into the wrong team in the first game they had to play. Like I'll say this, sorry to interrupt. Gotta beat South Carolina. Losing back to back to those guys. Yeah. This does, I actually want to ask you about this, Larry, because it feels like the rivalry has turned a little bit where Clemson was back in the usual dominant spot, which it has been

for most of the history of the rivalry after that period where Steve Spurrier seemed to have their number. Now South Carolina's won two of three. And does it feel like it's a little bit more even than it has been in terms of, like on the recruiting trail as well? Cause it looked like Clemson was just getting better rosters than them.

But now it seems like South Carolina like getting Lenora Sellers out of the state of South Carolina. Like that's a that's a difference maker. Well they didn't just get him. Clemson wasn't really. Wasn't it? Yeah, it went interested. Yeah. I would say this, yeah you're right. If you look at the draft numbers in recent years, South Carolina and Clemson are pretty close. I'll say this. South Carolina's defense lost a ton, a ton of game-changing talent. And, and I, you know, they don't normal, they aren't normally in a position to just replenish and not take a major dip

when they lose that volume of talent on one side of the ball. It could well be that their offense is just so good that it doesn't matter. But yeah, I think it doesn't sit well with Clemson fans. They don't, I think Shane Beamer is a good guy. But I think some of his mannerisms maybe and antics and post press conference post game press conference type. Some of the things he says I think it it rubs Clemson fans the wrong way. I think you could argue that Shane and Dabo are as close. Yeah. Yeah, pretty similar like South Carolina people are on the way to so yes, and the less than the less than the

funniest part of this y'all over the last few years is that, you know, South Carolina fans who spent a long time going look at y'all's cheerleader coach and, you know, just ridicule on the fact that he dabble does it this unconventional way. Well now, I mean, if you told me that Shane Beamer, that at one point, five, six, seven years ago, before Shane took over in Columbia, that he visited with Dabo, and they're friends, by the way,

really good family friends, and that Dabo gave Shane a book and said, here's how I did it. You know, this can't get out. You know, if we, if we coach against each other, but here's my model. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that were the case, because the holistic, the cultural, all that stuff, the, the, uh, you know, the us against the world thing, when anybody criticizes, Dennis Dodd, was it Dennis Dodd that Shane called out

I guess a year ago? Shane probably pays closer attention to the actual headlines and the stories and the message boards than Davao does, or at least Davao is smarter about pretending that he doesn't, or maybe has a more efficient process of okay, all right, communications director, just show me what I need to see. It really seems like Shane reads it all. But otherwise, they're, they're quite similar. That, but obviously more accomplished than Shane is at this point. to see two bitter rival fan bases going after the other coach when you're just sitting there going, man, they, they not only are they close, they're friends, they like each other. So the other one

is not the Antichrist, but they, they're very similar in how they go about their business. You know, I think that you could probably make the case that Dabo is the most misunderstood coach in the country, right? In terms of, cause he does say things in press conferences that are clipped and whatever soundbites where it's like, all right, man, I probably wouldn't have said that. But then when you actually peel back the curtain and like, try to like get to know what he's like the heart of the matter that usually his heart's in the right spot.

Like he doesn't do himself any favors either. Right. Yeah. That's what he says in news conferences and stuff at times. Yeah. The Twitter world has not been good for him because the Twitter on an hour plus long press conference, taking like a hundred character snippet from that and saying, oh, good God, or even a video clip of what he said. And look, he's at it again, dah, dah, dah, dah. And so many times over the years when he's created these sensations,

I've been in those press conferences and I've been like, well, that's not exactly what he said. And if you know, he was none of his answers are any shorter than five minutes. And so it's hard to get. It's hard to get true context. I'll say this, though, in fairness, you know, he has said some things that he probably wishes he didn't say, He is still getting hammered for what he was back in 2014. If we're going to get paid for play, I'll just go do something else.

Not doing something else. He's not doing something else. And he's also saying, well, I didn't say that. Well, I think he did. Here's what I, if I were his communications director on that count, on that particular quote, I would advise him, I would say, Dabo, here's what you should say.

When you're questioned about that, ask the questioner, have you ever been wrong about anything? Just say that. Have you ever reconsidered a stance that you had a decade ago? And I think you're, then you're able to probably, everybody's able to move on. Y'all agree? Yeah, well, and every person, except Ari maybe, is willing to, no. But yeah, everybody's had something they said that they're like, oh, I wish I had said wrong. That's the, I, I resent that. I, I get you. Props are you one of my pet peeves is when people just forget about a take they

had and they just move on to the next hot take, like we shouldn't take ourselves so seriously if you can laugh at yourself and I find it yourself, it makes you more endearing, I think think, to your readers, to fan bases and such. Well, I appreciate that. Andy's good at it, too. It's like we know we're covering college football, and I know that a large portion of what we talk about a lot

is projecting the future. If you can't acknowledge how hard doing that is, or you can't look back and laugh at like, wow, I really blew it on that one, then you're in the wrong business to me. That's, that's the thing. Like if I'm asking Dabo that question and he responds in that way to me, well, I I've had some really stupid takes over the years, so it's pretty easy for me to say, I see, I see where

you're coming from there. But yeah, it's, it's interesting because this does seem like there. But yeah, it's, it's interesting because this does seem like dabo still did it his way. But he did adjust somewhat. So I guess we we find out this year. Did that work? You're right, Andy. Here's the thing that I think is going to be absolutely and utterly fantasy fantasy. Fascinating, absolutely and utterly fascinating, not fantasizing.

Sorry. I've got a pizza table over there. Is Larry made this point and I thought it was good and I was aware of this and I'm going to, I have it in my back pocket for later in the year, but I guess it really doesn't even matter if things go great. But if Clemson goes nine and three this year, and trust me, my bank account homes, that doesn't happen. I got 20 to one pretty heavy because 20 to one to win the national title is an absurdly wrong line to me. And they lose a bunch of players.

They lose their quarterback. They lose a lot of these guys that are going to be tent poles of this exact roster You have mentioned that that dabo has adapted. I Wonder how drastic the adaptation or the evolution will be a year from now When they need to replace a hell of a lot of people is he gonna go back to well? Rebuilding two more years will take two or three guys in the portal, or is he going to really, really change next summer? Is that a fair question? Like I wonder like what it's actually going to look like when push comes to shove and you don't have all these guys coming back. How are you going to build your roster for 26? Yeah, I don't know that push is going to really come to shove necessarily. And it's going to be yet another sort of referendum type of juncture inflection

point. Their high school recruiting is going really well. Yeah. And so I think they're already this off season, a big part of this, what I've called the summer of love, summer of Clemson love is how successful they've been on the recruiting trail against some heavy hitters that, you know, Clemson fans have spent a lot of time in recent years wondering, hey, are we even going to be able to get somebody when Texas or Georgia wants them, you know? And so they've gotten, I'm not the recruiting expert, Paul Strelow does a fantastic job of that. But I think overall, it's already, you know, if they have a successful season, then I think that's sort of the not the last

laugh. But that's a pretty lasting laugh. If that makes sense. I mean, we're just just to get back briefly to how stupid some of the momentous referendum type questions are the Florida State Clemson game two years ago in Death Valley, Florida State had beaten LSU in Orlando and they were full of transfers and it was like that one game was treated as okay if Clemson wins this is going to be the Davos going to be able to say it's a victory for his philosophy and if Clemson loses oh boy and somebody even told me going into that game somebody fairly close to Davo that man if he wins if he beats it if this person said if we we beat Florida State, then Debo's probably going to go to the press conference

and say, I've never taken a portal. That was an overtime game, wasn't it, if I remember correctly? Keon Coleman transfer was the one who made the difference. No doubt. Like, the difference you could convincingly argue was that Florida State had some key, some playmaker transfers, but my rebuttal is, did that really have that much resonance? No. Less than a year later-

You mean long-term. Neither result. It was an overtime game. Neither result would have changed anything. Less than a year later, Mike Norvell is getting savaged for his high school recruiting. Yeah. And so I think one of the reasons Dabo is now sort of getting some flowers is people are sort of thinking more deeply on, okay, there is something to,

hey, stick to your principles. Stick to the belief that regardless of what model it is, there's still gonna be players out, recruits out there, parents out there who value the cultural elements that you specialize in if you're Dabo and if you're Clemson. And just stick to that. Yeah. And don't, you know, just because other teams are, other programs are building their models

more on the portal doesn't mean you have to all of a sudden abandon what got you there. And I think he deserves credit for that because you look at a number of their headliners. I Mean they were they were turned they retained everybody Who and a lot of these guys left money on the table? You know Kate club Nick is probably not making or he's definitely not making what he could be making elsewhere He's getting paid handsomely. I think it's around 2.5 million. So He's not he's not hurting at all. But my point is, and TJ Parker, Peter Woods, Antonio Williams, they stayed for more than just money. And I think if you just listen to some of their reflections on that. That's why they came to Clemson.

And I think if it is a gamble, I don't think it is. I think Deba's betting that there will always be talent out there, highly regarded talent that has sort of those principles in mind. Larry, I think that this is a good place probably to wrap, but I've got one last thing, because I think that this is the most important thing for my fundamental understanding of Clemson.

Because I agree with 100% of the things that you just said. I like a principled coach. I like one that has a plan that wants to stick to it. Somebody who can win, even when they're being criticized, all those things. But if Clemson goes nine and three this year and misses the playoff and they lose all their players and then Dabo goes back to building it the long way, which is through high school recruiting and not improving your team dramatically through the portal with five or seven upgrades. And it takes two or three more years. Are Clemson fans okay with that? Because eventually they want the payoff of it's very easy to say, well, we have our principles and we're doing it the way that Clemson does it. We've got guys who love Clemson. And I think it's a heartwarming thing. I think everything that Davos says is heartwarming in terms of rewarding the people who stick through it and all the life lessons he's trying. But at the end of the day, people in your town want to win a national title. So if they don't

do it this year and they have to go into a rebuilding mode, are people okay with this? Like that's because I think I don't know if I'm just making this up but it feels like this is a very high-stake season for Clemson. Like they have to go do it, or people are going to return directly back to wondering if Clemson has the goods to ever do it again. And that, yeah, that that that would be fair. You know, I don't think that necessarily that this past year, him going in the portal for three guys was like a one-time thing. I think that he, I think it was a revelation for him, based on what folks have told me that,

and this is something that he was criticized for years ago, and even something that I even said, it's, you know, portal additions don't necessarily have to detract from your locker room culture and all that. They can actually add to it if you get the right ones. And in Will Help and Tristan Smith and Jeremiah Alexander, the transfer from Alabama, all three of those guys have made a big impact in their locker room. I think Andy wrote a column months ago on Will Help. He won what, four games the previous two years at Purdue?

That dude is freaking hungry. Yeah, he wants to win, you can tell. He wants to win. When you bring in Tristan Smith, who comes from such a humble place where he was before, he's hungry, he just values everything he has. He values all the bells and whistles of their football facility that maybe current players

have started to take for granted a little bit. Jeremiah Alexander, kind of a similar deal, one of the hardest workers they have from what I've heard. So my point is, I think that if they have some holes next year, I think Dabo is going to be more willing, based on this experience, to go try to find guys in the portal who can add to their, who can both, you know, bring them talent, but also bring them figures who can, who can help strengthen their locker room. Nine and three, that's a tough one.

This does feel like the year where they gotta go out and prove it. Now we say that, we said that last year because the Clemson Georgia opener last year was the object of a lot of anticipation for Clemson fans and the team to finally, okay, go prove it, show you can do it. And so, of course, there would, in that scenario, nine and three, there'd be a lot of heartburn. There'd be the further sort of misgivings about being in the ACC

and sort of being in that sort of second class type of existence. But if you're asking me, are they gonna start to say, oh, we need to maybe try to push Dabo out, I don't think that's ever gonna happen. I think even Clemson fans, even in the worst moments, even during some of the most trying times in recent years, including the Tyler from Spartanburg kind of sensation. There have been some moments where the marriage is tested a little bit or significantly and

Dabu has had to sort of mark his territory a little bit and say, hey, it's pretty hard to do what we've done around here. But fans have also kind of responded in filling up the stadium and saying, hey, most coaches elsewhere don't have this luxury of going over to the top of a hill against for a game against Wake Forest and having it be packed. But the important part to me, I guess, getting back to answer your question is, he is starting his 17th season here as the head coach, which is hard to believe. And the marriage between fan base and head coach, I think, is remarkably strong. I think a lot of it is, of course, related to the trophy case and the wins.

But also, a good bit of it stems from just the type of leadership and the type of impact he has had not just on the football program and the athletics department and not just the school itself, but the entire community. Well, we know Tyler probably regretting what he said, but I don't regret anything that was said today. Larry Williams, this has been fantastic. So happy that you and Paul Strehlow and everybody else at Tiger Illustrated is on board now. And guys, it just gets better from here. I've got a big surprise for you tomorrow. We'll be talking Texas. Larry, thank you so much. Yeah happy to be a part of the team guys are awesome and- real.