Andy & Ari On3 - Clemson's Dabo Swinney IGNORES the haters: "We just keep winning"

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

This show is brought to you by Panini America, makers of the most collectible sports cards on the planet. The Prism football card series a vibrantly paralleled base and insert roster featuring college football’s brightest former and current superstars. Panini sets include NIL autographed cards from players including Arch Manning, Quinn Ewers, Cam Ward, Jalen Milroe, Dylan Raiola, DJ Lagway, and Luther Burden. To start collecting, visit PaniniAmerica.net. State and Liberty makes modern athletic fit clothing for men who want to look great and be comfortable at the same time. Whether you’re looking for an athletic fit suit or your new favorite hoodie, State and Liberty has what you need. New customers get 10 percent off when they use the code ANDYARI, or you can visit this link: https://tidd.ly/4gVLuUE(0:00-5:00) Intro(5:01-18:37) Clemson Head Coach Dabo Swinney Joins(18:38-27:46) Tom Allen Hiring, Cade Klubnik's Development(27:47-32:52) Dabo Swinney's Rules for Life(32:53-38:03) Closing out with Dabo Swinney(38:04-45:07) The CJ Spiller Story(45:08-1:01:48) In Depth Discussion on Clemson(1:01:49-1:05:05) Conclusion: Ari's Cowboy Hat? Clemson coach Dabo Swinney joins the show to explain why he doesn’t listen to Ari — or anyone else who thinks he should change the way he builds his roster. Swinney explains why Clemson dipped its toe in the transfer portal and why he still believes the best way to build a football program is with good high school players who remain bought in to the school they originally chose. Watch us on YouTube! https://youtube.com/live/1kd1y-piUxQ Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari WassermanProducer: River Bailey

Welcome to Andy and Ari on three big day on the show. Big guest. That's right. Clemson coach Dabo Sweeney joins us and Aria. He turned some things back on you. It was very interesting. Yeah, I guess I'm not a GM. I don't know. We'll see. Like the thing that I want to get into about this notion of turning it around on me, we want to talk about after because like I do have thoughts on that of like, I don't want to blow it. So I don't want to like, tell people before he says what he says what he's gonna say. So well, then talk, see it

and then teasing it already. I'm teasing it. Yes. But I'm just excited, you know, because I wanna, you know, you're telling people on Twitter, you turn the tables on me and stuff. It's like, you know how I am. I'm like a, I'm like a rabid dog in the corner when you do that to me, you know? I'm like foaming at the mouth, ready to talk about it. But no, I thought it was an incredible interview. And, you know, the thing that I'll say about Davos Sweeney is, I don't know what it is, but there was something divisive about him, right? Just to the general public. And I don't know if it's the leaning into faith.

I don't know if it's his eccentric personality. I don't know if it's just that Clemson's been very good, but he does rub a lot of people the wrong way. And the thing that I hope people will see through this interview is that he's just a good dude. Like, you know, and it was really cool to have him on. He gave us more time than we asked for and way more. Yeah, he's just, am I saying that right?

Like, he's just a good dude. Well, I think you're right about the divisive part. And I think the reasons you gave are all reasons because different people will have different reasons. But I think one of the issues with Dabo is that if you experience Dabo in sound bites, you don't get the entire picture. And I think that's true of a lot of people, but especially true of him because I think he'll tell you he tends to be a little bit long-winded. Like he has these press conferences that will go for an hour just because he just doesn't stop talking.

If you get the whole picture, I think you see it a little bit differently than if you just see a sound bite of, Dabo said this about the Transfer Portal or Dabo said this about NIL. I think when you hear it all together and he you'll hear it with with him today. His vision for the program hasn't really changed much, but it's working. It has worked and he believes it's going to continue to work. Now we will find out if it will continue to work. You and I have been pretty bullish on Clemson this year. We were not so bullish on Clemson going into last year.

We're very bullish on them this year. If what we think is gonna happen happens, he's probably gonna be proven right here. And so that's the part that I find interesting is that he's doubled down all this stuff. Other programs have changed a lot more and either he's gonna be right or they're gonna be right and we're gonna find out. But I think it's really interesting how he's handled all this. The thing that you need to

understand about this situation is in order for him to be right, I don't think they have to go win the ACC. I think in order for him to be right, they have to show, I don't even know if they have to win, but they have to show unequivocally that they can go toe-to-toe with the best team in the country. Because that's what people have been questioning. It's never, nobody's ever said, I've never, I've been as critical of the man as anybody. I've never said that I think Clemson stinks, in the sense of like their team's not good at all. I know that their team is still better than 85% of the other teams out there. The question is and remains, can Clemson win or be good enough to win another national title doing it this way? I know they're good enough to win the ACC. We watched a team last year that, you know, wasn't nearly as good as some of the best Clemson teams they've had in

the past win the ACC, even with some pretty good teams in it last year. Like I know they're good enough to win the ACC. What I'm not, what I don't know is if they're good enough to go beat peak Georgia or peak Ohio state, which they've done in their past. So like that to me is the bar there. It's not whether or not you can rattle off more ACC championships. So not taking away the accomplishment, you know, winning eight out of the last 10 years,

which he said, I think nine times in the interview is a really good accomplishment. But when you feed your fan base elite, and then you give them very good, they want to lead, you know what I mean? Right. And we suspect elite is coming back that based on, based on the way the roster has gone and what we saw at the end of last year. So we'll, we'll find out. But great conversation with a guy who has accomplished more than almost any, or maybe he's accomplished more than any other coach work. I think he and Kirby probably are pretty neck and neck for that. But fascinating conversation. Here is Dabo Sweeney.

Here is Dabo Sweeney. Honored to be joined by the head coach at Clemson Dabo Sweeney Surround. We got two national championship trophies over the shoulder. This is a beautiful office coach. Of you. So I was gonna wait until later, but I was thinking about this. Your post 2010 press conference.

So you guys have just gone six and seven. Yep. And you go the next decade of Clemson football is going to be the best one ever. Like, do you have any stock tips? Do you have anything else? Any other bold predictions that we can we can piggyback on that one from? Yeah, we haven't even come close to, you know, the best years at Clemson. You know so and I think that was it was it wasn't only the best decade at Clemson it was the third best decade in the history of college football and and even in these first five years of this decade we're ahead of that pace. So I know we've we supposedly hadn't been very good but these past five years but we're ahead of the pace that we were in the teens. And so I just man I'm excited about where we are and what's to come. I don't know if you know this about me but you got me into trouble on the Paul

Finebom show because we had to do this thing at the athletic where we ranked the Mount Rushmore of coaches and I put you on mine and the reason why and I put I put you on mine coach because you've why, and I put you on mine, Coach, because you've done something at Clemson that nobody else has done, which has taken a program that was proud and successful and you turned it into a juggernaut, right? And there aren't very many other coaches who can claim that during this modern era. And my question to you is with the changing landscape in college football, the way it's different now, how you going about assembling a roster is changing,

players are changing, compensation is changing. What would your advice be to another coach taking over a place like 2010 Clemson and turning it into what you did now? Like if your starting point was now, what would your advice be? It'd be the exact same as it was when I got this job. you've been doing for a long time, you've been doing for a long time, you've been doing for a long time, you've been doing for a long time, you've

been doing for a long time, you have been doing for a long time and you've been doing for a long time. So, I think that's the reason why I'm here. I'm here to help you. I'm here to help you.

I'm here to help you. I'm here to help you. I'm here to help you. I'm here to help you. I'm here to help you. I'm here to help you. I'm here to help you. everybody else does and just try to outwork them, be smarter than them or whatever, or always be reactive to what they do or you can be unique and you can be different. And when I got this job at Clemson, I really feel like Clemson is unique and different. If we were going to be successful, we were going to have to do it in a unique way. And that's what we've done. And we've been purpose driven for going on 17 years and that purpose hasn't changed.

And if you're purpose driven, then the results should reflect that after 16 years. And that's what our results are. You know, the number one thing in our program is graduation, it always has been. We got the highest graduation rate in America, 394 seniors, 389 graduates. We just posted the highest graduation success rate that's been posted in 20 years in college football. We also have the

highest retention rates in the country the past couple years in this crazy free agent world. So we've just stayed focused on the purpose and we've never compromised what's maybe best in the moment. We've never compromised what's best for the long term health of our program, of our organization, and more importantly, what's best for these young people that God puts in front of us. So that's really my advice. I mean, what's your purpose? What are you about? And you got to have some conviction in who you are and the way you do it. And it is a blessing.

I mean, Clemson is when I got this job, I mean, we hadn't won 10 games in 20 years. We hadn't won the ACC and that was an eight to 10 team league. We hadn't won the league in 20 years. We've won it nine times now. We've played for it 10. We've been to seven playoffs in the past 10 years. We've won our league eight out of the last 10 years. We got the highest graduation rate in the country.

We've never had a number one recruiting class. We always average about 13 every year. That's kind of where we are in my 16 years. But now that Nick Saban's gone, we've won more games than anybody the last 16 years. Got the most draft picks, most first round picks, most championships, but the highest graduation rate and the highest retention.

So I think the way we've done it has been unique. It's been different. And a lot of people don't understand Clemson. They don't understand our purpose, but we've never compromised what's best for the long-term health of this organization and for these young people for maybe what's best in a moment. Well, and we've talked about that and obviously everybody has an opinion on how you handle the transfer portal. I thought you broke it down really well because it changed my mind on it when I heard you

talking to Roddy Jones about it at Amelia Island last year, where you explained where you were coming from with the way you handled the portal. And it was interesting because I hadn't thought of it that way, but basically you said, retention's our biggest thing. And if we're gonna bring somebody in,

we can't mess up the guys that we've poured into. So you take three transfers this year and they had their press conferences last night. I heard Will Helt talking about, I couldn't even believe Clemson was recruiting that. I didn't think they took transfers. But how did you decide how you were gonna venture into that and still keep the culture that you've clearly worked

very hard to create? going to venture into that and still keep the culture that you've clearly worked very hard to create? Yeah, I mean, again, we just do what's best for Clemson. We've always done that year in and year out, regardless of what that is. As the portal has come about, so again, you can't have the highest graduation rate in America and you can't be top in the country in retention, you know, in this crazy free agent world and go sign a million portal guys. So, you know, something's gotta give somewhere. We're not against the portal. We've used the portal three out of the last four years. We've

used the portal. We've just signed what we need. The portal is a great tool. And again, everybody just likes to make up their own stories and narratives and they like to get a bunch of clicks and all that but uh you know, in the meantime, we just keep winning uh and that's that's you know,

we're just going about our business. Uh most people don't understand our program. So, it's it's a lot of wasted time trying to explain it but um this everybody has to use the portal in today's era in some form or fashion because if a kid leaves in in the spring portal you can't get a high school kid in May so we just haven't had if you look at our retention we're we're

in the bottom in the country like in fewest players leaving our program. It's not that we don't have some guys leave, but fewest players. And so, and we are getting our top picks in high school. So like this past year, you know, everybody wants me to go get this portal receiver. I went and got Wesco and TJ Moore. I think they're pretty good.

Well, guess what? They're here for more than one year. You know, we're gonna, they're gonna be here for a while. I'm not against the portal. Everybody wanted me to fire Cade Clubnick, but we forget it's a developmental game. And now now, Cade Clubnick's you know, he's a projected Heisman guy. Kids get better. And so I think you have to evaluate well, you got to develop well and you have to retain well. And that's been our formula here. And we've been able to recruit who we think, we're not always right, but

who we think are the best fits and the best high school kids are. That's been our approach. That's been our philosophy. Now, this past year, well, we had two high school kids, or one in particular, we were gonna take two defensive ends. And we had a kid that decided he didn't wanna come to Clemson a couple weeks before signing day. So he goes, well, recruiting is over, there's no high school kid to get. There isn't a high school kid to get.

So all right, I'm like, all right, well, let's go find who the best, let me look at all the DNs. And I looked at all the DNs in the portal and I said, that's the guy, Will Held. So I called Will Held up and I said hey man Here we go And and we went and got so our philosophy is not any different whether we're recruiting the portal or we're recruiting a high school Kid our philosophy our evaluation how we go about it is exactly the same so not against it We just use it when we need to and I've also said many times if I left today and took a job Half the team would probably leave so you can't go sign 40 high school kids And I've also said many times, if I left today and took a job,

half the team would probably leave. So you can't go sign 40 high school kids. I don't judge other people. Everybody's situation is different. But again, everybody wants me to be like everybody else. And again, we've been to seven playoffs in 10 years. We haven't been 10 out of 10, but I don't think hardly, maybe Alabama's been seven out of 10.

And we've won this league eight out of 10, but I don't think hardly, maybe Alabama's been seven out of 10. And we've won this league eight out of 10 years. And we're graduating our kids at the highest rate in all of college football. 13 out of the last 14 years, we've been top 10 in the country, Climson Duke and Northwestern academically. So we just stay focused on the purpose. We stay focused on the way we do things, why we do it that way. We have fun. I love my players.

And, you know, we just kind of own our business, man. And again, we're not gonna win the national championship every year. And if we're gonna be judged by that, I think we're fifth in the country in wins in the last five years. And no, we haven't won the national championship, but how many people have, number one?

I think, but all those five, I think have all played for it. So I think you gotta you gotta be consistent before you can be anything else and that's what we've always focused on not being a up and down program being a program that is consistently performing at a

championship caliber level on and off the field and that's who we are. Davo. I I began this discussion telling you about how I put you on my Mount Rushmore, but this is also a an honesty podcast. Like we are true to ourselves and I have to tell you that. You took me off. You cut me off of it. You, you, no, no, you're still on. Oh, I'm on there. Okay. Good. And at times very critical of your roster building. Okay. Maybe I am one of the people

very critical of your roster building. Okay. And maybe I am one of the people who doesn't understand Clemson, but I wanted to ask you, Davo, have you ever during this three year period of evolution had any moments to yourself, maybe in your office or at home? I do a lot of my thinking in the shower

of like, is this going, is what we're doing still gonna work? Were you ever, have you ever been nervous about that or thought second of like, well this going, is what we're doing still gonna work? Have you ever been nervous about that or thought second of like, well, you've got kids in your program but other teams are taking players who are improvements in the portal even if they don't need them and accentuating the roster in a way that Clemson hasn't done yet. Like have you ever had any honest moments of like, maybe we need a waiver, maybe we need to do something different or have you stayed tried and true to yourself and never been

concerned about your process? No, I'm not concerned about that at all. I have total conviction in in how we go about our business here. Does that mean I make all the right decisions? No, we're all human and we all, you know, make mistakes and we don't always make the right decisions all the time. But hopefully we've made a lot more good ones than bad ones, you know, over the past 16 plus years. So just always work to get better.

You know, you're always trying to get better. But again, my North Star is the purpose of this program. And that's it. Not what other people are doing. I've never tried to live from the outside in. And I've always focused on building my life and building this program from the inside out. And that's what we do.

And again, there's a lot of decisions that you have to make and you're always evaluating yourself and trying to get better. But I don't sit around and worry and I mean, again, we've won our league eight out of 10 years and we've been a seven playoffs in 10 years. So I think we're not, I don't think there's any other program in the country that can say that. So I think, and then we have the highest graduation rate.

So I think honestly, I've never tried to, went from the time I got this job in the very first board meeting I went to, and one of the board members said, hey, we want to be like this school and this school and this school. We want to be great academically and athletically. My message has always been, well, I don't want to be like that. I want for them to want to be like Clemson. That has not changed. You know, we just stay focused on being great where our feet are,

fulfilling the purpose that we have. We have a ton of fun here. That's why our retention is so high. I've got 24 former players on this staff that I get to do life with every single day. Got an awesome group of people. And again, from time to time, if you make a mistake or you have to make a change, that's part of life. That's part of the business. But as far as how we build our roster and again, I don't have a problem with people having opinions and that's just comes with it. You sign up for this job, you know, other people have opinions and I respect other people's opinions, but I'm not driven by other people's opinions,

other people's criticism, other people's expectations. I'm driven by the purpose of this program and I'm driven, you know, you know, through what I believe is, you know, doing what's right for the 30 year old version of these kids. One of the changes you did have to make is that you changed defensive coordinators this year. You bring in Tom Allen, who's, you know, he was at Penn State, but he was the head coach in Indiana.

I'm curious because I remember when that hire got announced, I thought, oh my gosh, that is the perfect guy to work with Davo. Because Tom is, you know, you guys, you're very out front with your faith, but also both of you, if you talk to your players, like nice upfront, but they'll get you if there's an edge to be gained and

you know Tom's whole philosophy at Indian of love each other and that very similar to That got you to thinking that that Tom's the right guy for this this job. Yeah, so the right guy for this this job. Yeah. So, you know, these are tough decisions and when I made a decision to make a change and just kind of did my research. First of all, we'd we'd never really met maybe once in passing somewhere but he called me when he was like he was an interim, I believe at Indiana. Yeah. He called me during that time and then reached out a few times

over his tenure as a head coach. And so I always liked him just from, you know, watching him from afar and knew a little bit about him. But, you know, when I started kind of doing my research and I got, I had a lot of people to look at and consider and got it down to about 10 or 12 guys. And then I got it down to five or six. And then I got it down to about 10 or 12 guys. And then I got it down to five or six.

And then I got it down to three. And just unbelievable candidates. And I just felt like he's a great leader of people, a great leader of men. And I really felt like he was the dynamic leader I needed in the room, not just for the players, but also for the coaches, especially with me being an offensive guy. I just felt like, and I loved his background.

I loved the fact that he was a very successful high school coach as well. And all things just kept coming back to him. And, but then I had to kind of wait. So, you know, but within about the first hour, you know, 10 minutes of our hour conversation, I knew like, okay, this is the guy and he's a great fit. And it's been awesome. I mean, he's just, he is a great fit.

We really align in a lot of things. And, you know, so it was right timing, right fit and you know, all worked out. So he's done an awesome job, you know, to this point, obviously, we're going to open up with LSU. So we'll find out then but a good start this spring. Davo, I think a lot of people, you know, look at your roster. They see the evolution of Cade Clubnick's game. They see

the receivers you mentioned and you know the defensive line that you guys have might be the best in the country. There's a lot of things to like about your roster, some pretty high expectations when you, you know, heading into spring now and you know finally getting this team on the field and getting a feel for who they are. Do you sense that, you know, this team has something in it that can reach some of the heights that are represented in those two trophies behind you? Yeah, I mean, those are hard. Like I said, we've won three of them in 130 years, so those things are hard to get for anybody.

But I think that this is a team that has a chance to compete for this league, and I think if you can compete for your league, you have an opportunity beyond that. And that's where it always starts for us. It's just taking them one at a time. And I think we do have a proven quarterback. It's always exciting when you have a guy that's, you can't just give a guy experience.

But this kid really is the epitome of Clemson. Just believes in everything. That's why he came here and just has continued to develop. So now he's got a ton of experience. He's got a lot of confidence to go with it. I think the one thing about this team that's maybe a little different from the last couple years is they've seen the top of the mountain, getting back to the playoffs.

And they've seen it and didn't quite get there, but they've got a clear vision, I think, and a clear understanding of what it takes. We got great leadership. We lost one defensive lineman, we lost one offensive lineman. Both those guys probably get drafted here. We lost one backer and one safety, they'll get drafted. We lost one tight end and one running back, they'll get drafted. Other than that, everybody's back.

And we added a great signing class. I think our last, probably back to 22, we've really, I think done a nice job with our recruiting classes. And we've kind of built, and I think you've seen that. I mean, we've, again, won the league two out of the last three years, eight out of the last ten years. Getting back to the playoffs was big this year from an experience standpoint for our team.

But we're gonna be led in the trenches on both sides. We've got a lot of guys back up front. I think we've got really good skill, but most importantly, we got an outstanding quarterback. I think we got a really good backup quarterback too in CV. So, we've got the ingredients, we got a kicker who can make a game winning kicker. So we've got good experience,

we've got the right ingredients, but man, it's just a lot of work to do. And you got to show up every week, show up every day. We got to finish strong these next couple weeks in spring. Have a great summer. You know, you always got to get a little lucky with your health. There's a lot that goes into it. But I like our team. I think we're a team that's got a chance. And that's all you can ask can ask for and you gotta go take advantage of each and every opportunity. And you gotta ask about crazy legs, the crazy legs. Oh yeah.

We saw, we realized last year how well Cade runs. I'm assuming you guys knew that all along. Where were you hiding that? This guy's like the next Michael Vick. Yeah. He's got eight yard runs to the house, man. Yeah. this guy's like the the next really had to. You know, he never lost a game in high school. He and that's that was also a part of his journey.

His sophomore junior senior year he won three state championships, he never lost a game, didn't lose a game. And so I think the closest game he had was 14 points. So, that was a part of his development as well. So he comes in here and then he goes to the Elite 11, he wins the Elite 11. He comes to Clemson, he's the backup. He's physically a little behind and getting there. And then all of a sudden we put him in the ACC Championship as freshman year.

He wins the MVP, life is good, right? He's got all this great stuff. Well, then his first year as a starter, really the first time that he's had football adversity in his life, turning the ball over, ball handling, making some interceptions, taking sacks, TFLs. And so we lost some close games, some gut wrenchers, a lot of all of a sudden, instead of how great you are, here comes the criticism, here comes the noise.

Well, how are you gonna grow through that? And it's just been awesome to see him come back through the other side of that. And he's so much better because all of us grow from struggle. All of us grow stronger from strain, from having some adversity in our life, if we're made of the right stuff.

And that's what he's been able to do. from having some adversity in our life if we're made of the right stuff and and that's what he's been able to do and it's been awesome but that was a huge like his first year. It would drive me crazy like you know there

there were so many times that it's second and ten. He could have easily made it third and four but instead he's standing there holding the ball. Now, it's third and ten, you know and and just you

know he he could have it's it's second and ten. Excuse me. He could have, it's second and 10, excuse me, he could have made it third and four, and now it's third and 10 because he wouldn't run. He just wasn't comfortable. So that was a huge part of challenging him last year. And really the end of his first year as a starter in 23, you started to see that. You started to see him,

especially that game win and drive in the bowl game against Kentucky. He had to use his legs and he started gaining some confidence. And he sees the game has slowed down. He really understands coverages. He knows when that the defense is exposed, when his legs can really hurt people. So and then obviously we've made him a runner too. We've taken advantage as he's gotten physically a little bit more put together

and his confidence has grown. We have asked him to run in some critical situations. And so he's just as confident as sky high, he knows his legs. He can beat people with his legs, his mind, his heart and his arm. And so that's gonna serve him well and all of us well as we go into this next season. and that's what we're going to serve him on his arm and so you know that's going to serve him well and all of us will as we go through this next season.

This is what I'm very excited about. We we close these interviews with the same question and so you're you're one I I've fascinated here to answer this so dabble Sweeney if you got one or several, it's either way. What are your basic rules for life or what is your one rule for life?

Oh man, well my, you know, I mean my one rule for life is to build your life on a foundation of faith. That's just my one rule for life. If you're going to ask me that, I mean I think to not take advantage of our platform here, I'm sure there's 10 million people watching this, I'm sure there's 10 million people watching this. I need to- At least. At least. I need to make sure that I say that. I think so many times in life,

we try to build our life on a foundation that just, it's not stable. Whether it's your job, your family, your bank account, it's a football, it's your favorite team, whatever. I think sooner or later, life brings us all to our knees and we're gonna have a circumstance that man, you know, if you don't have faith, it's, you can get washed out to see.

And I think you need to be anchored and build your life on a strong foundation of faith. That's kind of the first thing I would say. And then I think as a football coach, we all need good fundamentals. For me, my fundamentals of life have always been I would say and then I think as a football coach, we all need good fundamentals for me my Fundamentals of life have always been to keep my eyes on the Lord and the good and bad Whether things are great whether things are terrible. Just keep my eyes locked in and focused on Christ

And that's how you don't get distracted By all the things that are going on and that's how you keep perspective in life. So keep your eyes on the lord. You gotta believe. You gotta believe in yourself. You know you have to believe in in in uh you know God's plan for your life and then and then you can't ever quit. You know when the adversity comes you know when success comes you can't quit. You gotta continue to to apply those fundamentals for life. So, that's kinda what I would tell you and then just another big picture thing for me. You know,

I've always said that and I love the I don't know who said it but I it's kind of a philosophy for me is you know, you don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing like man, you gotta keep moving, right able to play anymore because you stop playing like man, you gotta

keep moving, right? If you rest, you rust like you got to keep moving. Alright, that's just a mentality that I think will serve everybody well and uh so that's a few things I can give you a few more if you want them. Uh another thing I tell

you is you know, nobody's greatness isn't your destiny. It's your decision. You gotta decide every day, every single day, is the glass half full or half empty? And growth follows belief. So you're gonna grow in whatever direction your beliefs are. And so that's just a few things. And again, I can, I got how much.

One of my favorites that I've heard you say a bunch of times and I remember I talked to you about this I think it was the 10 year anniversary of you being the interim coach at Clemson, which was just I'm fascinated by that entire three month span but You said grow where you're planted and that's something you've said a lot over the course of your life But I always find you know, you talk to people and they're like, well, you know, if only this had happened or if I was here or if I'd gotten this job, like the grower, your planet part of it is something that I don't know. I don't think I realized till later in life, but that's

if you can accept that and understand that early, it feels like it solves a lot of problems. You got it. You just gotta bloom where you're playing it. That's what I always say. Just be great where your feet are. So many people are so focused on you know other people's grass, you know uh and

you know and they they always, you know, like like if you're counting somebody else's sprinkles on their ice cream cone, yours is going to melt like just just be great where your feet are man like have a lifestyle of now, you know, having the right perspective. Uh and because again and and we can't do anything about yesterday. Like there's no hope for a better yesterday.

We can't do anything about that. So just bloom where you're planning man. Just just right here right now. Be engaged, be present. Um and you know, I think that's how you you have happiness in your life. Uh you you have to that's a that's just a mindset, you know, that you have to have. It's if you're great at what you're doing, somebody's going to notice that. That would be a heck of a philosophy professor.

I don't know if this football is going to know what you write in the book. When are you when are you writing the book? I've already written the book. I've lived it. I've sorry. He's going to know to write in the book. When when when are you when are you writing the book? I've already written the book. I've lived it. I've got I've already written it. I've just you know, somebody can put it

together if they want. We'll do it. 40%. You drive a hard bar. I've actually ghost written a couple. You don't get 20%. I'm sorry. You're going to start high. That's the rule for I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You're know those like calendars like know what would be great? You know what would be great and I don't know if all of these are dabble originals or not but you know those like calendars like

this that are like on your desk where you like rip the every day and then like dabble is a day dabble is a day because it's like what was the one if you don't what was the one that ended with rust because it made me want to go to the gym if you

rest you need to go to the gym you know what I'm doing in 20 minutes I'm going down and I'm playing noon basketball. Alright, you're going to be lost. You the basketball gambling plays plays in your league. His name is Tyler Shoemaker and I follow all of his plays and he plays in your league. Am I men's league? Yeah, his team is Duck Dynasty. I don't know if you've played these people, but he's played against you and he said that he's going to be he's going to meet you at the board. So you got to go up. You got to go up strong. Okay. The locking down CJ Spiller thing is amazing to me. you know, you gotta be strong, I will not a time. You know, I will do what I can while

I can so that when I cannot, I will not wish that I would have when I could have, right? Like right now. Here we go again. It's amazing. What you're going to do today. What you're going to do today. Go lockdown CJ Spiller. Tell him I said hi and

I'm still surprised because I was in the gym at Union County High School when he put the Tiger Paul hat on and we we went over to interview him and I said, uh, I said, wow. I said, well, what, what, what caused you to, to pick Clemson? And he said, well, it was this, the receivers coach is my lead recruiter. He was the one that really didn't dabble. Sweeney. I said, can you spell that for me? Who was that? 2006. We were doing a series a few years ago. I know you have to go dabble. Sorry. I'm not sure. What was that?

You know, so I want to know like who who you want me to get rid of you. That's what they're really saying. You know, so I want to know like who, who you want me to get rid of. Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to get your number. Um, I'm going to call Jim Nagy and I'm going to figure out what they're paying him. And then I'm going to take 120% or whatever he's doing with my family. And then we'll go through it. I wanted to tell you, Dabba one last thing. I was doing a series where I was asking coaches what their biggest

recruiting miss regret was and I got to Urban Meyer and his with CJ Spiller so you can tell him that when you go play basketball with him. CJ Spiller twice. Yeah. Yeah. I've got Urban on the wall down so we have this quote wall in the

building like anytime says somebody says something like like we put them on the wall and so we've got urban kind of talking a little bit about that part of it. you know when he came in here because he'd never been here. So uh yeah, he's he's a part. he's a

part of the building now as is four or five other coaches that have made some great comments like coach. I will be on that wall one day. I promise you that they coach that coach had a great quote. He said, this is why you come to Alabama and I

play teams like Clemson. That was a keeper. like that. So, yeah, we'll go lockdown. Go to lockdown. CJ Spiller as Urban Meyer couldn't do the first time or the second time. or the second time. Yeah. You know, I don't, I don't know. You know,

there's there's always kids to answer your question. There's always kids like you miss out on, you know, there's there's always kids to answer your question. It's always kids like you miss out on, you know, who's yours? I mean like honestly, I go back to Alabama. I missed out on Jericho, but everybody missed

out on him. He ended up going to NC State but there's always some guys like that but at the end of the day, man, I don't live my life with regret. I really don't. I just I believe that god never says oops. I believe god never says my bad even when we screw up,

even when we make mistakes. I think it's I think it's all Romans 828. All things work together for good. You know, even the things we don't like and I just I believe that so I don't I don't really spend a lot of time with my eyes in the

rear view mirror living with regret. I just believe hey, God's will is done and you know, if we just keep our eyes on him and continue to believe and we don't quit that, you know, in the end and we're going to live a great life. Appreciate it,

coach. Thank you so much. It was awesome. Thanks. You guys are great. Good luck on the court. Can't wait to find out we we need. We do need to find out how the basketball game went. We need to find out if CJ Spiller was locked down or CJ Spiller

dropped 20 on Davos head. He can't move like he used to. Alright, so the CJ Spiller story let's let's. I think I've told that on the old show, but it's a crazy story. So here's what happened there, and it's one of those deals where you're just doing your job and you don't actually wanna become part of the story,

but you can't help it sometimes. So I'm covering Florida for the Tampa Tribune, and this is at the end of the 2006 season. So I'll take it to December 2006. I was covering a practice. You know, Florida's getting ready to play Ohio State in the National Championship game and they're practicing back in Gainesville in December and. I see a like 1991 Honda Civic. With an in the old Florida license plates used to tell you what county they were from. And so it's got a Clemson

Tiger Paw sticker on the back. And it's a Union County license plate. Union County is one county north of Alachua County where Gainesville is. So it's very close. But I'm like, that has to be CJ Spiller. I don't know who else that could be. Now, I remember later that he did have a teammate that went to Clemson as well. So it could have been, I guess it could have been that guy, but pretty sure it was CJ Spiller.

And I'm like, what's he doing in the in the parking lot by the Florida practice field right now? And so obviously I'm doing my job and talking to people over the next few weeks. And I believe it was the day after Florida beat Ohio State for the national title. I get word that CJ Spillers coming to Florida. He's decided he's going to transfer from Clemson to Florida. And so this is, you know, back in the Stone Age, he would have had to sit out 2007, but

he would have been on the 2008 Florida team and he would have been able to play. So like with T-bo and Percy Harvin and all those people, I could you imagine have been unreal. And Florida was very confident that they had him. So I, I had CJ sell number. So I called it and he answers. And if you've never talked to CJ Spiller, he's the nicest guy in the world. And he'll just talk to anybody. And I said, you know, hi, I'm Andy Staples. I cover Florida for the Tampa Tribune. I've heard that you may be transferring to Florida. He's like, yeah, well,

I'm going back up to Clemson to get my stuff right now. And so I write a story and it comes out on the website. And the rest of the story comes from Tommy Bowden, who was the head coach at Clemson before Dabo Sweeney. And Dabo was Tommy Bowden's receivers coach and recruiting coordinator. And so when I get the SI job in 2008, I go up to Clemson to do a pre-season story and I tell Tommy Bowden this story and he goes,

well, I need to thank you then because we didn't know about that. And we read the story and we made sure that we got him in the room and said, you know, here, here's why you should stay and we w we want you here. And he ends up staying. And it changes the course of Clemson history because like if CJ Spillers not on that 2008 Clemson team, so Tommy Bowden gets fired. Also great rule for life. You ready? This is Tommy Bowden gave me this rule for life. You ready? Yep. Never lose to Wake Forest on a Thursday night. That's a good

rule for life. Great rule for life. That was the end of the Tommy Bowden era. So dabos got the interim job. He's trying to hold on to it. There's not like a set you've got to win this many games for him to get it. But they you talk to guys who were on that staff and they'll tell you like if they'd lost to Boston College, they're pretty sure they were out and they would have just done a national search and gone gone and got somebody else. And

CJ Spiller had a kickoff return against Boston college that set them up to win that game and CJ Spillers on that team, like that doesn't happen. Dabo doesn't, doesn't happen the way it had, I think Dabo would have, would have found his way to becoming head coach, but it wouldn't have happened the way it happened and it's just crazy how all that stuff, you're the most important figure in Clemson history. I don't think so. Sounds like it to me.

Tommy still had to close him and get him to stay. Like that's a pretty tough, tough gig. It's kind of like when you have an argument with your wife. I'm like, who's more responsible for your kid? They carried it. You provided the seed. Like who's more important? Like you, I mean, you were part of it.

You know what I mean? Yeah, much for the show were a part of it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Is that a little too much for the show? I don't know, like. I hope you haven't actually had that argument. I suspect you have, but I hope you haven't. I think women, I think do, but my wife does. If she reminds me periodically that she carried our child.

Yeah, and birthed your child. Yeah. Which is difficult no matter how it happened. Which I agree, yeah, no, I agree. Yeah, and birth your child. Yeah. Which is difficult no matter how it happened. Yeah, no, I agree. Yeah, yeah. Let's not forget where she originated from. That's all. I mean, you helped.

Yeah. But you enjoyed that more. Yeah. Your role in that was way more fun than her role in it. Yeah, my role in it was a blast, but like literally, but I don't know. her role in it. Yeah, my role in it was a blast, but like literally, but I don't know. Yeah, like she did the bulk of the heavy lifting, but yes, so I'm going to, I'm going to give dadless Sweeney and Tommy Bowden the credit on this. But you were the seed that planted

it. Yeah. I also want no credit for that because that's, that's one of those things where you don't want to be part of the story like I'm just doing my job I've been told this is going to happen. I call the person he says this is going to happen and write the story So yeah, maybe if you wouldn't have somebody else would have but like that that oh, yeah Listen, I was the first person to call him There were probably three more coming That once he probably hung up with me. He's like, oh crap. What am I done? They didn't Didn't talk to him.

It was back in the day when that was how recruiting stuff happened. Like, I mean, all of us have those recruiting stories of like the kid picked up. Like, you know? Yeah. Yeah, it's funny because we joke now, like I have teenagers,

they don't like to use their phones as phones, but teenagers never liked to use their phones as phones. No. Even before text messaging was prevalent, they didn't want to use their phones as phones. You don't ever just get a phone call out of the blue and look down at it and just go, oh God. I do all the time.

You know that shirt or that meme or that thing that they say online, this meeting could have been an email. Sometimes I feel like this phone call could have been a text, you know, but maybe like, because I'm a millennial. Are you millennial? No, I am generation X. Okay, I'm a millennial. So maybe I'm like half, you know, half and half or it's like, yeah, I do, like, you know, as a reporter, want to talk to people when when the opportunity but like, when my friend calls me out of the blue, it just like, dude,, as a reporter, want to talk to people when, when the opportunity, but like when my friend calls me out of the blue, it just like, dude, what do you want?

That's not going to want to hear from them. But like it just like sometimes I just want to, I have to be in the mood because my wife will call me. And she'll be like, you're not saying anything. Like I didn't initiate the phone call. Yeah, I'm not the one that was intending to provide information to the other person. And it's like, oh yeah, no, no, no, no. I'm pretty talkative.

Sometimes I do shows all day and I'm just like, I don't feel like I'm a big. I'll talk on the phone in the car if I'm driving. That's when I. Yeah, exactly. But I face Zack in the chat. They like FaceTime. Zoomers hate phone calls. This is true. Now, interesting story about that. You know, who also likes FaceTime is Debo Sweeney. So we'll help the defensive end from Purdue who transferred to Clemson.

He did a press conference this week and he was talking about his recruitment. And, you know, he goes into the portal, obviously, he's getting a lot of interest. I think LSU and Texas A&M were other schools that he'd scheduled visits to. But he gets a call from Chris Rumpf, who's Clemson's defensive line coach, and they chat for a few minutes. And then Chris Rumpf says, yes, we're very interested. And like an hour later, a number pops up that Will Helt doesn't recognize, and it's FaceTime call, and it's DTime call and it's dabble sweet and he's like, oh, I guess

they are taking transfers now. So there you go. And you know, you heard dabble in the interview talking about getting will help. That's a pretty big get because they hadn't hired Tom Allen yet. And remember, they had to start Peter woods at defensive end for seven games last year just to get the best four defensive linemen on the field. And that was a, that was on them.

Like it's interesting. Cause Dabo talks about, you know, they, they only took three transfers. They only lost five people to the transfer portal last year. They lost 11 and they took zero. So I think their depth is going to be better by quite a bit this year. Yeah. Also to like will help might be one of the best Ed brushers in the country by the time this is all said and done too. Like, you know, he's a monster. He I mean, think about

Purdue was one in 11 last year, but had will help and Dylan Thienemann on that defense. Yeah. And they also had an escort in the year before and he was a pretty important piece last year, but had will help and Dylan Thieneman on that defense. Yeah. And they also had an escort in the year before and he was a pretty important piece last year day and I'm so like, it's like Purdue's had some ends, had some ed rush edge rushers. Um, but it's like, it is interesting to it's like, if you're going to use the portal sparingly the way that Clemson is, um, when you do use it and

you hit a home run, that's probably gonna be a good thing, right? Like I think that the anticipation is that they'll have the best defensive line in the country and anybody, and that's why I was, I've been so high on A&M in the past. It's like, well, I don't know about everything, but like A&M has the best, one of the best defensive lines in the country.

I can get on board with them being good. But then you had the best defensive line in the country to Cade Klubbnik and those two receivers and experienced line receivers. TJ Moore, Wesco and Antonio Williams. Like they were all good dudes at very important positions. Then of course, you know, Sammy Brown, right? Like who was one of the best freshmen linebackers

in the country a year ago. So like when you look at the roster, they do seem like a pretty trendy pick to run deep into this thing next year. Somebody who understands Clemson very well told me that Dabo may have gotten some inspiration from watching Brad Brownell, who's their basketball coach, who has had to take quite a few transfers, but has been successful at finding transfers that fit the culture that he wants in his program. And Clemson, you know, the ACC is down in basketball this year, but Clemson's been really good.

They're a lock to make the NCAA tournament. Like they're good. And it feels like that Clemson with the dipping the toe in the transfer portal in football, like they did find people who fit. Like the linebacker they got from Alabama, like that was an easy one. He was Peter Woods' high school teammate.

Like Peter Woods called him the second he found out he was going to the portal, like, you know where you're going. And then Will Held, you know, he had a chance to go to Texas A&M. He had a chance to go to LSU. So we're talking about a guy who was getting certainly competitive in IL offers as well. And I'm sure Clemson offered a competitive deal too. But here's what will help said the other day.

And remember, will help has been on a team that has won five games in the past two years. No one's hungrier for a win than I am. Five games in the last two years, one game last year. I'm salivating to get those victories. two years, one game last year, I'm salivating to get those victories. Like he, this is a guy who clearly being able to play for a championship, being able to win games is a huge deal to him. Yeah.

And like, I don't think that people appreciate how important just a win is to a lot of people in the sport too. It's like, we spend so much time talking about these teams and coming down on them for losing once or twice in a season. Like what about the kids that don't win at all? You know, and they go to places in Purdue, although it's a tough out at times, gets their head beaten in a lot by the elite teams.

And if you're a really good player on those teams, I would imagine that it wears on you. So the fact that Clemson was able to fill a spot that came open unexpectedly and makes their team better, like that's the thing that I was thinking when he was talking, Andy. It's like, will help if he's an All-American next year and come along with me on this path. They will have discovered or had on their team almost by accident. You know, and then the question is, could Clemson operate that pro operate that way

proactively like that's the that's the thing. It's like, you know, dabble. He's like, who do you think I should cut? Well, it's like two years ago, your entire receiver room. You know what I mean? Like you don't want to say that. Well, and a lot of them ended up leaving. Yeah, a lot of them ended up going elsewhere. The kids that couldn't get open the year that Keon Coleman was terrorizing the ACC and the one thing that you needed more than anything was somebody who could get open. How could we say that? That's the thing. What? How come you didn't say that to him? I mean, I don't know. I didn't want to be an asshole. Like, I mean, I put like, and I actually drove up a pretty hard bargain. But like that to me, it's like that, that's the answer. So the question is, is like, yeah, like dabo has the credentials. And, you know, now you're making me

feel like a coward. Maybe I am. Maybe we'll have them back on and I'll tell them. Oh, we're gonna definitely have it back on. That was that was a fun interview. Like I said, if you get the totality of dabo, it's very different than getting dabo through soundbites. But if you want to have a real discussion or debate, which if you want to invite him back on, I'll have a debate with him. Because like, you know what, like I came down on Brent

Invenibles really, really hard about the no visit policy that he had, right? Which he got from Dabo. And I thought it was terrible, right? And I went into Brent's office and I like said, this is awful. Why are you doing this? And like we had a spirited debate for 15 minutes about it. And I wrote about it.

And like I actually came away from the discussion feeling differently. So like here's the thing. Do you believe. feeling differently. So like, here's the thing. Do you believe that Clemson, and maybe I'll write about this, that Clemson can win a national title doing it this way? And you know what, the way that the roster has set up, you know, I guess maybe the answer to that question might be yes.

But the thing I don't know is if you take a pro-addict, proactive, sorry, too many medication commercials in the middle of Hulu shows. Pro-Attic, you've invented a new one. Yeah. Do your knees hurt? You don't take Pro-Attic if you are allergic to Pro-Attic. Take once a day Pro-Active. May cause inability to sleep,

sexual irregularities and much more. Please call in. Anything for over four hours, please contact your physician. Is that like, does Clemson have to cut players? Like that's what this comes down to, right? Like he's talking about who do you want me to get rid of, or we need people to develop or think people get better. And he's absolutely right. But do you have me to get rid of, or we need people to develop, or think people get better, and he's absolutely right.

But do you have to rule your program in 2025 in a way where you cut bait with guys that aren't gonna be good players, period. And like, you have 85 scholarship guys, Davo. Are all 85 gonna be elite players one day, or do you have to say, hey, you know what, our receiver room stinks, take a hike? that, that's the thing. And when we have more next time, I do think you should ask about that because I'm curious to hear what his answer is about it. Well, I think what

his answer would be on that is we can't start cutting people in the way that everybody else is cutting people because that blows a hole in everything we preach to them when we recruited them. And it's not the people that you'd be cutting, it's the people that you'd be keeping and what does that do for your relationship with them? Yeah. And I understand that. And if you want to do it this way, that's fine. The question is, is the standard at Clemson being a team that can conceivably win a national championship every year like it was between 2016 and 2020?

Like, if that's what you want to be, I have questions as great of a coach as Dabo Sweeney is about whether or not that's a reasonable thing. So like that, and you know what, I'm wrong all the time. Maybe I'll be wrong. But when other teams that you're playing see weaknesses on their roster, and those weaknesses exist in players who don't want to leave, and then they proactively change those and improve them, those are the teams that have fewer weaknesses on Saturdays. And it might not be nice and it might not be that warm, cozy, everybody love everybody feeling, but in a world where players are being compensated and in a world where your job and here's the number one argument. The compensation thing is is what makes this more fair. Like if you're

compensating someone fairly, you should have a reasonable expectation that they're going to meet a minimum threshold to do the job. I stopped coming on the podcast on time. Like if you're compensating someone fairly, you should have a reasonable expectation that they're gonna meet a minimum threshold to do the job. I stopped coming on the podcast on time. Or I was like, hey, I'm not gonna make it this week. If you started coming on the podcast on time and then you stopped, I mean, it would just be amazing because you've never actually been on time.

Yeah, that's true. It is true. You know, you guys put me in a bind here with my family life. You know that. I wake up every day at 7 a.m. or 6 30 a.m. a little bit early to make the lunch so I can get out on. We got to leave the house at 7. We just feel like it keeps you sharp, keeps you on edge.

Yeah, like I'm dropping my kid off and walking out of daycare 20 minutes before the show starts and it's 15 minutes away. Like the fact that I've made it on time at all before is a miracle. Here's the last thing I wanted to say, and this is the point that I've made about Clemson in the past, and I don't know if you agree with it. But if you want to keep that everybody love everybody feeling and you want to have the retention that you have, then the question becomes to the players that are very good or good enough,

the first round draft picks that you have on your team every year, are you doing those people a disservice by not putting a good enough team around them for them to achieve their goals? Like that's the other thing too. It's like, okay, well, we want to be loyal to people and we want them to be on the team for a long time. That's a very cozy and lovely feeling and's like, OK, well, we want to be loyal to people, and we want them to be on the team for a long time. That's a very cozy and lovely feeling. And I respect Abbo for wanting that in his program.

But if you're a first-round draft pick defensive lineman who's beating his head in on every play, and you guys lose to a team that you shouldn't lose to because nobody in the receiver room can get open, and your coach didn't do everything that he could in the offseason in order to address that problem, are you doing some, are you treating the person who's very good wrong? Like that, that's the question. So it's like, you

know, the thing to me is like college football is always about competitiveness. And, you know, how many times have you heard a coach say, iron sharpens iron? It's the jobs coach to bring iron into the program. And if you know that there's something weaker. it's the jobs coach to bring iron into the program. And if you know that there's something weaker. Yeah. Here's the thing with Clemson this year. So I, we've said many times, we think that that Ohio State team that just finished winning the national title is the last of that kind of team, because of NIL, Transfer Portal portal that it's going to be very hard to stack that level of talent. Clemson has constructed this year, probably still isn't competing with that team. But like the, the Clemson, you make Clemson's defense better from last year.

Go back to the Texas game. Like their offense was, was doing fine against Texas's defense, which was a really good defense that Texas had. Their defense was terrible, but let's say Tom Allen makes the big difference on defense. That's a team that should be able to compete with just about anybody. So if they can create a roster that it doing it the way they want to, they can compete with just about anybody, then we have no leg

to stand on. It really is if they can't, and we'll find out. I think this will be a great year to find out. If LSU comes in and completely outclasses Clemson from a personnel standpoint, which I don't think is going to happen, then we have a different discussion. If South Carolina beats them again, we have a different discussion. Well, this is the discussion, Andy. It's whether or not the sport has changed enough so that the top has come down enough where Clemson can continue to operate this way. Right. Because if they operated this way in 2020, over and over again,

it's not, period, point blank period. Like if Ohio State from last year exists every year moving forward, it's not enough. But if Ohio State didn't exist last year and Clemson played the field, I mean, hell, even against Texas, the score was close, but you could tell the entire game they weren't gonna win. Right.

Like that's the question. So like, but here's the thing, Clemson's gonna be better this year than they were last year. Clemson was a year early last year. They returned their entire team. And the defense schematically is gonna be better. Like they were not a very well run defense at all last year. Like he made the West Goodwin hire was a mistake.

When Brent Venable's left, he hired the wrong DC. So if that mistake has been fixed and the roster is better, this is gonna be a pretty good team. Thanks for giving me my column today, by the way. I'm gonna lead with being a coward. Appreciate it. That's a legitimate, so this is a good thing. And I wrote a column about Dabo because like in the interview

when he says, everybody wants me to be like everybody else, like he says it very calmly but you could tell it drives him nuts that everybody wants him to do what everybody else does and he prides himself on doing it the way he thinks it should be done and he's gonna do it that way. Oh I just saw the column on the front page of on three I guess I'm not writing about what I was gonna write about today. You can write about that all you want. I don't know. We'll see. I think we will get a lot out of this, this particular interview, because I had another story idea that spun off of this one as well that you may be seeing sometime next week.

But I'm excited to see what Clemson is this year, because I do think they're going to be back. And it's not just, oh, they feel like the best team in the ACC. They'll make the playoff because they'll win the ACC, but they might not be one of the best four teams in the country. I think they're back in the in the mold of this is one of the best. Roster's in the country.

Yes, elite level players at important positions. I think is a pretty good is a pretty good way of looking at it. Yeah. So we will find out. But that was, that was illuminating. And I appreciate that was giving us that much time and really just explaining all that stuff. confirmation that I just received about tomorrow's show. Another coach, a very different conversation is what I'm guessing because this coach is taking a very different tact than Davos Sweeney. It is Texas Tech coach, Joey Maguire, Texas Tech, for those who don't know, went all in on the transfer

portal this year. They have a mega donor named Cody Campbell who just sold his company for multiple billions of dollars. And he's like, hey, let's go get some better players. Like he was responding to people on Twitter during the season last year saying, we will go get better players. And you know what they did.

They got guys who were in the portal who could have gone anywhere and a bunch of them went to Texas Tech. So completely different conversation, completely different strategy. I can't wait to hear what Joe McGuire has to say because listen, just because Dabo does it this way doesn't and Dabo said it himself was like, he's like, this works for us. This might not work for everybody else. Yeah. Joey McGuire is in a situation where he's got to do something different.

Definitely multiple ways to approach this. So, um, yeah, I'm super excited about that. Getting some coaches in, we're getting the office. I'm going to ask him if he's seen land man. Cause I am. We have to do. I mean, you're gonna ask him if he's seen Landman, because I am. We have to, though. Yeah. I mean, shoot, they filmed part of Landman

at a Big 12 track meet. I'm going to do the interview smoking a cigarette and drinking a Dr. Pepper. So that's what I'm gonna do. No, you need to drink a Mick Ultra, because they're non-alcoholic. I think my, so can I ask you a question before this just to prep me for tonight? But the goals how different are male cowboy hats from female cowboy

hats? Cowboys know. Okay because like my wife has a bunch of cowboy hats because she yeah she grew up everywhere she went. Like do you think I could pop one of those on? I mean, her head's probably the size of a. I mean, you could pop one of those on real ones would know. How many like what percentage of our of our listeners? Do you think can decipher a male and female cowboy hat? Can I go get it real quick? Can you just vamp for 30 seconds? Yeah, I'll vamp. Alright, this is I cannot wait to see this. These eyes are never gonna see. I cannot wait to see this. These eyes are never gonna be another one. I cannot wait to see this.

Nathan says, size is different, but the style isn't very different. I think it depends. It depends. I think there's some barrel racing ladies cowboy hats that definitely a little bit different. But I gotta see this. I can see this being a disaster in our Dr but I gotta see this I Can I can see this being a disaster in our driving wire interview? I really can you remember when Ari brought the the pack of cigarettes for code for Kurt signetti coach sigs with the sigs

Alright, here we go. Let's see Listen I'd buy an oil least from you That that doesn't look like that doesn't look like a lady said that. It doesn't look like a lady's one. Now this is a cowboy hat. She's got her. We got a little we got some of this branded in here and we got the her initials on the side of it. There you go. In case you're wondering why we're in credit card debt.

I'm gonna do the interview with this, right? I sure hope so. I sure hope so. This is going to be a disaster. I can't wait. It's not too late for you to pull the plug on this partnership. I wouldn't understand. Listen, we're going to talk in like 22 minutes. Join the choir tomorrow.

Talk to you later. Listen, we're going to talk in like twenty minutes. Join McGuire tomorrow. Talk to you later.