Andy & Ari On3 - College Football Spring Game WHIPAROUND: Why Texas, Oklahoma, and Michigan are set up for a BIG 2026 | Wake Forest HC Jake Dickert Joins

Episode Date: April 20, 2026

As spring practice continues across the country, Texas, Oklahoma, and Michigan all completed their spring games this past Saturday. With summer workouts ahead, how do each of these teams look? Watch here as Andy & Ari dive deep into Texas, Oklahoma, and Michigan here. Also, Wake Forest’s Head Coach Jake Dickert joins the show. A HUGE Monday show to start your week here.   (0:00) On Today’s Episode (0:54) Presenting Sponsor (2:34) Intro: Skydiver at Virginia Tech (5:05) How did Texas look Saturday? (10:34) Michael Dell and Texas? (16:42) Oklahoma Spring Game (23:47) Michigan’s Spring Game (30:14) Ohio State: Tavien St. Clair to Chris Henry Jr (32:30) Who won the Beef? (44:20) Re-visiting the Clemson Purple Uniforms (49:41) Previewing Jake Dickert (50:11) Jake Dickert Joins (1:14:34) Conclusion   Later in the show, Andy & Ari dive deep into some social media beef, and it begs the question: Who won the beef? This week’s beef dives into the online battle between Indiana DC Bryant Haines and the Alabama Crimson Tide fans.   Andy’s story on Bryant Haines and Alabama fans here: https://www.on3.com/news/who-won-the-beef-indiana-dc-bryant-haines-or-alabama-twitter/   To close, Wake Forest head coach Jake Dickert joins the show. After winning nine games in his first season in Winston-Salem, the 2nd year Demon Deacon head coach is looking to build upon year one. With a new QB in Gio Lopez, how will Wake Forest compete this year? Watch here as Jake Dickert explains.   Thanks for watching!   Send your questions to: [e-mail] [e-mail] Our show is also presented by BetMGM!   If you haven’t signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code CFB and you will get up to a $1500 First Bet Offer on your first wager with BetMGM! Here’s how it works:   1. Download the BetMGM app and sign-up using bonus code CFB. 2. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game. 3. You will receive up to $1500 in bonus bets if your bet loses! Just make sure you use bonus code CFB when you sign up!   Make this college football season one for the history books. Make it legendary.   See BetMGM.com for Terms. 21+ only. This promotional offer is not available in DC, Mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET (Available in the US) . 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), 1-800-327-5050 (MA), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR). First Bet Offer for new customers only (if applicable). Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel   Watch our show on YouTube instead!    Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari Wasserman Producer: River Bailey   Interested in partnering with the show? Email [e-mail]   Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On today is Andy Naurion 3 presented by BetMGM. We whip around to multiple A-list spring games. Arch Manning throwing seven on seven. And that's about it at Texas and a billionaire tweeting a Texas flag that does this mean he wants to fund a roster? Who knows? Plus Oklahoma's spring game. Michigan has a stud freshman running back and a freshman QB that makes them very excited, even though he would just be the backup.

Later in the show, great interview with Wake Forest Head Coach Jake Dicker coming off a nine-win season in year one in Winston-Salem. How do the Demon Deacons keep it going? Plus, Brian Haynes, the Indiana defensive coordinator versus all of Alabama Twitter. Who you got? We'll talk about it all on today's Andy and Ari on 3 presented by BetMGM. This show is sponsored by BetMGM, and if you're not already signed up, download that app. use the code CFB when you sign up.

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First bet offer for new customers only if applicable, subject to eligibility requirements. rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in seven days in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Welcome to Andy and Arion 3 presented by BetMGM. Ari, so many spring games, so many things to overreact to. I don't even know where to start because we've got Texas. We have Georgia. We had Oklahoma. We had Virginia Tech with the skydiver hitting the scoreboard.

We had a dizzy bat race at Michigan State. It kind of felt like football season a little bit, right? The spring game Saturdays are the closest thing that we get a taste of the constant grab ass that we get every Saturday during the fall. And it's just like, of course a skydiver hit a scoreboard. I mean, like, does that stuff happen in the NFL ever? Do I just like not assume? I don't know. I really don't think it does.

Well, it does. The skydiver went on Good Morning America. He's okay. 17-year Army Special Operations Forces veteran, he was headed toward the field when Gus hit him, and then he was worried that he was going to hit somebody in the stands. And by the way, look how full the stands are at Lane Stadium. You tell me, James Franklin's not got them excited.

But he's where he's going to hit somebody to stand. So he tries to change direction so he can go to the practice field behind the stadium. And then another Gus hit him and that sent him into the scoreboard. but apparently he injured his shoulder, he told Good Morning America, but he's okay otherwise. So thank goodness for that. But yeah, that's the sort of spring game, Tom Fuller you get. But look at how many people were in Lane Stadium when that happened. Yeah, what's the bigger omen here?

The stadium capacity and how many people showed up to fill that capacity or the skydiver hitting the scoreboard? I don't know. I guess it depends on who you root for. Well, the skydiver hitting the scoreboard is going to get the headline because that's just how it works. but the fact that everybody's there at Virginia Tech when this time last year there was zero excitement around the program should tell you how different things are right now. I mean, that's a pretty gnarly fall, Andy.

I mean, like, it is. I'm glad he's okay. Yeah, because like that. He's been through a lot worse, it sounds like, given what he's, what he had to do for a living. So, but I'm glad he's okay. And that, didn't get picked apart maybe as much as Arch Manning doing seven on seven at Texas.

It's so funny because like some of these, some of these teams do a full game. Some of them do kind of a weird modified scoring situation. Some of them do just a practice. And Texas did fan day essentially and it was basically a practice. So Arch through seven on seven and wasn't even in the 11 on 11s. Right. People love coming down on this.

man. They just love it. And it's so... You were texting me during the, during this reading tweets, just, just killing ARCS. And I'm like, what are we doing here? Yeah. It's just practice, baby. Such an interesting thing, Andy. Like, it's like even to, I remember like last week when you asked the listeners for

questions. And, you know, there were a few in there. I don't know if you saw that. Like, I want you guys to talk about Archmore, like, in a sarcastic. sarcastic way. Yeah. And like, there's just this thing where people resent him. And I don't understand it because it's not like he did anything to, it's not his fault.

Like the way we talk about him, the way that he was hyped, it's not his fault. You don't get to control who your dad is and who your uncles are. And he never did anything in his own time to scrutinize. He's been quiet. He's bided his time. I think he's done things by and large, like every step of the way, probably the right way. And still, everybody wants to see him fail unless you're a Texas fan. And I don't know what it is, man.

I don't know what it is, but he didn't have apparently a sure human nature. It's human nature. That's what it is. I don't know. I despise people who I perceive to be warranted of that. I don't despise people for being good, but maybe I'm different. I don't know. People don't like someone who is automatically assumed to be great.

And people don't like people who are actually great. Think about how many people rooted for Tom Brady to fail or Peyton Manning to fail. People root against Jordan in the 90s? I was too young. Yes. What would Twitter look like if Jordan? Now, you have to remember the Jordan thing. The Pistons were atop the league and they were roundly disliked by everyone of Pistons fans.

So Jordan was the one who toppled the Pistons. So he had everybody in his side at first. But then like the second three Pete, I think people wanted to see him taken down. Just as many people as wanted to see him win. But I do think it was a different environment. Yes, if Twitter had existed back then, Jordan would have been a much more controversial figure than he was. Yeah. I kind of feel like there's like an arc where it's like at the beginning, people are rooting for you because you haven't done it.

then you get so good that people start to hope that you fail, and then when your career's over, you're celebrated for being great. Nick Saban's a good example of this, Ari. All the fans of SEC schools that hated Nick Saban, that thought he was a cheater, that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, now they just begrudgingly respect him or openly, not begrudgingly at all, respect him. They just love him. I also think that Texas is probably one of the 10 most hated programs generally.

So being affiliated with Texas probably doesn't help his cause, but like that's still the thing. It's like I find it to be compelling to see if Arch Manning can take Texas to their first national championship in over two decades. He hasn't even gotten, like he never got the benefit of the doubt of like being rooted for at the beginning before he became great. He hasn't even become great yet. Like people want to make sure that or people are rooting against him ever becoming great.

So like it's just, it's very weird. And I don't know if there's just like the, you know, maybe it's just an arch thing. I think people in general don't, there's a large segment of fans to. that don't like hyped five stars. And just like recruiting in general is just like an overblown, hyped thing. I don't know how people still believe that. And you've got the subset who thinks he's only a five star because of his last name. Exactly.

So it's like if you don't like the hype and then you really don't like the hype because of his name. And then you think that the rating is because of his name. And there's really not much to like. But like Archmanning as a human being has never done anything that should annoy you. You know, I heard there was this huge card show in the New Jersey. area over the weekend. And I don't want to say the athlete's names because I wasn't there. But apparently they're, I mean, they're very famous NFL players that came to sign cards, right? And one player was very engaging and was very nice and was signing and giving fans time

and shaking their hands and laughing and, you know, engaging with them. And then another one basically kept their head down and had headphones on the whole time. It's like, that's the type of thing that would make me not want you to succeed. If you're like, I, I would root against you if you're just a mean person, you know, but I don't know where this. I always act like I'm so surprised by what something comes from. It comes from people don't want an entitled person or somebody that they perceive to be entitled or gifted or advantaged to succeed. But like Archmanning, I think by and large, when you think about the hype and the platform that he's had and, you know, the no Twitter thing, the way he handled his recruitment, the way that he sat behind yours, like every single thing that he's done to me would be.

implication of humility, not the exact opposite. And I tend to root for people who have humility. Now, something else happened this weekend with Texas. Let's throw up the Michael Dell tweet. Michael Dell, the founder of Dell computers, tweets just the word Texas, and it's a gif of a Texas cheerleader waving a longhorn flag. And obviously, this inspired must speculation. Like, does Michael Dell want to fund the Texas roster? and, you know, it would be like a Cody Campbell situation at Texas Tech. I have to read, by the way, and his wife just gave $6 billion for this Invest America project. So like anything, any roster would be couch cushion change for them.

But I have a questionnaire as these people ask this. Doesn't Texas already pay as much for his roster as Texas Tech? That's the funny part about this. That's the punchline. But I want to read the tweet. that put this on your guys' radar because I think I was the first one to see it. But somebody wrote,

someone worth $170 billion taking a personal interest in Texas recruiting, I'm erect. On one hand, if you are a Texas fan, what is the greatest possible thing that you get an infusion of capital to that level?

When we fantasize Andy in the offseason about programs that have an opportunity to rise up and do something, thing. We always start with who's the richest alumni and do they like football, right? So on the other hand, it's also like, is this not just a billionaire getting a tax break? Like I don't like know what's happening here. Well, here's the other part of this. We watched it in action at Oregon for the last three decades.

You still don't have a national title out of it. Everybody thinks it's some billionaire can just come in and buy a national title. It's not that easy. Otherwise, somebody would have done it already. Here's the thing, too, Andy, because I don't know the numbers and you might know it better. than me. I don't even know if they're all available. You know, NACOS would know. But how much did Texas tech spend on its roster and how did that compare to Texas? And will we ever get to a point where Cody Campbell doubles Texas, Ohio State, and Georgia and all the other teams?

I don't think so because then you're just wasting money. Because you're still not going to get everybody you're trying to get. So Texas, you're going to overpay by that much just to double them. but if you're Texas tech and it takes doubling someone's salary that's not coming like if Texas tech decided they wanted Cam Coleman there's the number out there that Cody Campbell could have stroked a check for that they could have got him right he I don't know because if you if you read all the stuff about Cam Coleman's recruitment and this is from this is from NACOS talking to people who were involved from many schools he was going to Texas and basically the other schools just kept throwing out absurd numbers to drive Texas's price up.

You know what this reminds me of? Texas didn't necessarily have to beat those numbers, by the way. It's not like Texas beat them. They were just messing with Texas, knowing that he was going there and trying to get them to have to spend a little more money. Just so you know, and I'm sure the listeners of the show know, and I'm sorry to waterboard you with this, but as I write during the day or I'm perusing Twitter reading about college football,

I have Breaking Bad on in the background. I'm rewatching it. And there was a scene. where Skyler kicks Walter out of the house and he has to go find a place to live. And you might remember this, Andy, but he goes to an apartment complex or a condominium facility and he looks at a model.

And he goes, I love this. I'll take it. And the guys like, sir, we're in the model. And he goes, name me one thing in life. That's not negotiable. If Kudith Campbell wanted Cam Coleman on Texas' tax roster, he could have gotten him. He could have gotten anybody. There's no, there's no player out there that would not take 20 mil for a year. And he could pay it if he really wanted to. And my thing is,

he's probably too smart to do that. He probably won't do that. But if there ever is a billionaire out there that will spend like a crazy person, like a madman, like an insane waste of money, because it doesn't mean anything to them. And he's like, I want these players, we're getting them. they can't we're going to give them an offer that they cannot say no to we're going to spend three times more than texas did and we're going to get all the best players in the portal like that's conceivably possible but the thing that is interesting about this and texas getting a potential infusion of interest from a billionaire which is all speculation by the way but let's just say michael dell is he's still not going to pay more than market value and you're already maxing out the

offer so you're not really gaining much that's what i'm saying like yeah we've seen the test case of this with Phil Knight already. We already know how it works. Yeah. So, yeah, but it's fun. This is the new thing. Like, is there a billionaire that you can get interested? And every school's, every large alumni base school has somebody. Because I assume it hasn't been activated yet. Because I assume that Texas probably has never lost a recruit because of only money. No, I don't think so. I don't think that's. I don't make decisions for other things. But it's not like they're it's like it's like this this to me feels like a person who lives in a 12 million dollar house winning the lottery off of a lottery ticket it's like that's cool for you but like

are you going to buy a different house now like it doesn't like what are you going to do with that money you have more money but you know you already have a great help we also don't know if he's actually going to invest or not it was a really funny thing to watch texas people react to this is a love a guy who just broke off a six billion dollar donation to something. Yeah, and apparently he's been very, very, very giving to academics, which is great. Yes. Right.

So, you know. And that may be it. He may be talking about the school in general. Let's head to the other side of the Red River. Ari. Let's go to Oklahoma. They had fun at their spring game the other day. Owen Heineke, we talked about him getting his eligibility for this year.

He came out by himself to minimum. Men, which is just a great flex. I do think that they should have retired the many men entrance the second Brian Robinson came out after being shot. Like that is the hardest entrance. Yeah. Has ever done. Also, remember, Oklahoma had 50 cent come out and perform mini men at the playoff game against Alabama between the third. Oklahoma thing now, right?

Yes, but then Alabama continued to beat them. So, but now, that shouldn't stop. But you're forgetting the run that Oklahoma went on after he came out, right? Didn't it look for like a solid four minutes? And then it was over. It was not a game when he did the concert and then it became a game again. Well, no, remember Oklahoma led that game, what, 17 to nothing to start it? They did, yes.

So, yeah, and Alabama had already taken control by that point. So, yeah, I don't know. I think, but I did enjoy how much. fun Oklahoma was having with that. They posted, if we want to overreact to something, John Mateer to Isaiah Cetania, a beautiful John Mature to the Isaiah Cetania throw.

And he also posted a rushing touchdown, which I feel like Oklahoma running the ball. We keep talking about that. If they can actually run the ball this year, that they could be really good. Yeah. Running the ball. Cetania. Cetania is an interesting one because

he's their wide receiver one. We had all this going back to Texas, we had all this chat about Parker Livingston leaving Texas and going to Oklahoma. But Sataney is the wide receiver one. Also, I think very underappreciated nationally. I think he's a very good one. Yeah. And, you know, I thought came up pretty big and some pretty big moments for Oklahoma last

year. So, you know, I do, I always come back whenever we talk about Oklahoma to their over, under and your thought process on the seven and a half. And it's just like, there's a lot to like about the team. Yeah. So low. Yeah. Yeah.

I, I, I, and the thing. is, you know, we just talk about Texas, Oklahoma's got to get on the right side of that rivalry at some point. Like that, they have been dominated two years in a row. And two years ago, it made sense because they were, you know, their quarterback situation was awful at that point. But last year, it did not make any sense. They should not have been dominated the way they were. And, you know, this will be, this will be a difference. They will have already played at Michigan and at Georgia by the and they play Texas. So they would be very tested.

But especially after Stephen Shin did what he did too, that miracle that he had. It was just a waste. I just love the hand surgeon as hero is tremendous. I do think that that was my favorite part of last season. Just the loving embrace of hand surgeon. And the Stephen Shin. And then he came to the game and they gave him a standing ovation. Like he was like a hero.

Yeah. And that was the game, if I remember correctly, that he returned for, right? Like the whole thing was to return for Texas. He did, but didn't play well. And now I don't know that they would have done any better. Like if they started Michael Hawkins in that game, I don't think it would have, that that wouldn't work. But they have got to get on the right side of that rivalry. It's sort of like Texas is interesting because Texas, they've got Oklahoma's number and they've got A&M's number, the last couple of meetings.

They just got to deal with the other things. And I wonder why. The rivalry parts down. Oklahoma's got to get the rivalry part down and they got the other stuff handled pretty well. Yeah. I mean, I just think that it's just, is this an insult or just a fact that Texas is further along. It's a program in those two right now. Period.

I would agree with that. But the thing is both of those two could get to where Texas is with another jump. Like they are one, they are having this season be good. away from being in a similar place because both of them made the playoff last year. Obviously, both of them lost their first round playoff game. There were close games in both cases. I think Oklahoma, especially getting Owen Heineke back, if you add a run game to what they had last year,

you have a team that can go more than just to the playoff. They can go deeper in the playoff. It's kind of a funny thing to me because Oklahoma and, A&M both made the playoff last year and Texas did not. But I feel like there's only two more jumps for Oklahoma to make and A&M to make, period, as programs. The next jump is to not only make the playoff, but get to Texas's level, which is a team that we proceed. Texas has been in the semis two of the last three years. That's why we're not that worried about it.

They went nine and three last year, didn't make the playoff. Texas is the second jump or the first jump at those two programs, which makes, which is make the playoff, traverse the playoff, get to the semis, and build a roster that's, you know, in theory, good enough to win the national title. And of course, the second jump is winning it. But I think that, like, in terms of where you are as a program, if you're a team that made the playoff,

you know, being two jumps away from national championship is great. The problem is that the next two jumps are probably further across any stream than the other jumps are. So, like, you know, that's hard. The hardest thing to do is go from what Oklahoma was last year to a team that's an ass kicker in the playoff. I mean, it's a very difficult thing to improve. And frankly speaking,

I don't think that Oklahoma and Texas A&M are both going to do it next year. Someone's going to fail. Well, if you brought it up with Oklahoma, we're talking about it the other day, that they won a lot of close games last year. And there's two ways you can look at that. You can say,

okay, now they're seasoned. Do they understand how to win those games? And that's great. But the other side of that is those things tend to even out over time. So that's the question. But I do think Oklahoma brings back enough from that team last year that probably there's a lot of benefit in them having to have played those games, those tight games, the Missouri game, the LSU game, the Alabama game in Tuscaloosa, like winning those tight games does matter. So I'm excited to see how this shakes out because like Oklahoma plays Texas and Texas A&M.

Like the Oklahoma A&M game on November 21st could be a playoff elimination game. Yeah, which I'm here for. I am here for all of it. Here for all of it, loving where all these teams are at. Because there's a good reason to be excited at Oklahoma, good reason to be excited to Texas, good reason to be excited at A&M. We will find out the flaws of these teams when they begin playing. Yeah.

But everybody's got reason to go into this season, very excited. Another team that based on what we've seen all spring should be excited, the Michigan Wolverines. So we talked about Savian Heider the other day. He got to show out in front of the crowd at the big house and sounds like everybody was happy with him. It sounds like he, you know, based on what we saw that, you know, they had the game on Big Ten network. When he touches the ball, it's exciting. You're going to be in for a thrill ride. And it sounds like he is going to be a big part of the offense this year.

People his age aren't supposed to be built like that. Nope. Yeah, he's an early and early freshman. Yeah. I don't think that people realize, I mean, I need to do. But like, and maybe it's just more and more common now. But like, guys are a beast. Well, and the comparisons, I'm going to say they're unfair right now.

We're going to need to see more before we can really. say this is a legitimate comparison. But the comparisons to a recent college star would be Bejohn Robinson, where can run with power but also has that breakaway speed. And again, that's a lot to put on a guy right out of high school. I mean, I don't really know if there's a lot of people in the NFL that are like Bejohn Robinson. Bejohn Robinson, sorry. I'm still adjusting to correct pronunciation.

Yeah, I mean, and Jeremiah Love was probably the closest thing in college football last year. He's going to get drafted really high on Wednesday. but there's not a lot of guys like that. Yeah. Sometimes the Atlanta Falcons will post videos of Bejohn Robinson, like running through a hole from like an aerial view, and it's like, how on earth are his legs doing men?

Yes. How can he contort his body like that? But then he also can just square up and run you over. Yeah. No, so there's not a lot of people like that. That was a hell of a comparison. I don't know if I'm going to go that far, but guess what?

They've got one thing in common. And I love about five stars. Five star, now not the only freshman that Michigan's excited about on offense. And this one's a really interesting when I thought,

one guy who's gotten near universal praise this spring, including from the head coach, Kyle Whittingham, Tommy Carr, the freshman quarterback. And look, nobody's talking about him

as potentially unseating Bryce Underwood or anything like that. But that list we were going to make and the game we're going to play of who's comfortable if their backup QB has to go in the game. game, it sounds like Michigan's comfortable if their backup QB has to go in the game.

Yeah. And it'll be interesting, too, to see, it's just interesting because he is CJ Carr's brother, right? Yes. I mean, his older brother is one of the best quarterbacks in the country. And obviously, Lloyd Carr's grandson. Both. By the way, his maternal grandfather was one of Michigan's all-time great defensive players. Yeah.

And it's cool to see one of. of the brothers at least go to Michigan and continue the family lineage, right? But I'm sure he'll be constantly compared to, especially because I think CJ Carr is going to have a really good year this year. There's a lot to get excited about. That said, Bryce Underwood was three of nine for 22 yards in the game. That just means his defense is good, Ari. I don't know what you're talking about.

It means nothing. But, you know, you do want to see your quarterback, you know, do one thing in the spring game. Yeah, but last year they set, underwood up with the little trick play just to give us the highlight to run the whole time. Yeah, that was a cool, that was a cool play. See, there's a way to do spring games where everybody goes home happy. And it's just you let your quarterback air it out and hit some long passes.

Yeah, they'll fix the, you know, and then if you could say there was just defensive breaks, you know, they'll fix. They'll clean that up in the off season. No, no, we, we kept the defense vanilla. That's not what the other opponents are going to see. Exactly. Yeah, that's perfect. That's the perfect needle to thread. Big day from L'Avon. Vanilla defense.

Steve Spurrier used to do that all the time. He knew exactly what he was doing because he didn't want to hear people complain for six months. So he would just set it up where the defense had to play base coverage, couldn't really do anything, couldn't stunt, couldn't do anything. He just aired it out. Like he did that at Florida and South Carolina. Yeah. Nobody complained.

Yeah. But Michigan having a really good running back and good. lines and Kyle Whittingham as a coach is probably a pretty good combination for being Yeah, and the like I'm, maybe we need to do this next week. The who's comfortable if their backup QB has to go in a game. Because we, we did that late in the summer last year and we still only came up with a couple of answers. I feel like we have a lot more answers in the affirmative.

Did Mitchie cross the threshold for you already? I mean, you have an early enrollee freshman QB who. is not competing for the job, the job's taken. And the coach is lab, like the hard-ass coach, who's historically really good is lavishing him with praise. I think this guy came in and knocked it out. Yeah. That's what it tells me is they're really pleased with the way he came in and worked.

And so, because they feel like he can handle the praise, which a lot of times they just won't give freshmen that level of praise. Yeah. And I think that obviously where you come from has a pretty big impact on those types of things, too. Yeah. Yeah. Now, obviously, he's, yeah, he's seen it from a lot of angles. You know, he's, he's seen it from the family, his older brother dealing with it as a redshirt freshman quarterback at Notre Dame.

And then as the first year starter and, you know, getting better as the whole season went on. So he's seen all of this play out before. But I thought that was really interesting because, you know, coaches tend to be pretty spare in their praise of guys who just got there, especially in a situation where you don't think you're going to play there. Bryce Underwood's the starter. It's not a controversy. It's not an issue at all.

So I just found that very interesting, and I feel like we can add them to the list of teams that might be comfortable if their backup has to go in. Well, speaking of that, and this is an un- intentional segue, and I don't know how quick River can be on his feet. But did you see the touchdown pass that Taby and St. Clair threw Henry Jr. on Saturday? Sure did. And that is a five-star freshman quarterback who threw to a five-star.

No, that's a sophomore now, right? He's a redshirt freshman. Red shirt freshman. I can't remember everybody's, whether they redshirted or not. But young quarterback who could have been in the portal, and let me just tell you, Ohio State's probably pretty excited. There's no spring portal window. because that's a guy that, you know, might be good enough to play this year.

And he's throwing darts like that to a true freshman who's going to be in the actual rotation this year. That's probably a pretty exciting thing for an Ohio State fantasy too. I don't think that we can get one rival without the other, right? We did Texas and Oklahoma. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And that was a pretty big, big throw. But did you see Julian Sayans wheels? Do you see that touchdown run?

Yeah. By the way, there's no way that should have counted as a touchdown. there's a DB that's, you know, ready to just square him up and destroy him. He's like, nope, can't touch him. Yeah. And good on Ohio's day for wearing the heritage stripes on their sleeves. Maybe they can think about putting those on their uniform during the regular season, and they may be cracking someone's top five in the uniform ranking.

Because that's a pretty big difference to me. Well, it was, it was fun to see. And I love when we get to see guys, like, Taney St. Clair is an interesting person because he was so highly touted. And then you knew Julian saying, you know, is only in his second year on campus, like that they have to reconcile that. They have to figure out how that's going to work. And it seems like Taving St. Clair is comfortable in the role.

And we'll see. And maybe we add Ohio State to that list. Ohio State's on that list. Yeah. So they're on the list. So Ohio State and Michigan on the list of comfortable if their backup QB has to go in the game, which I think in this era of college football, that is a nice thing to have in your pocket.

It is. It is. But it was a really fun day on Saturday of just, you know, getting a little taste. Now we got a few more months to get through here. You know what else I had fun with Saturday? Alabama fans go at Indiana defensive coordinator Brian Haynes,

who I think might have overreacted a bit to what probably was a compliment from former Alabama quarterback, Ty Simpson, So Ty Simpson goes on the Caleb Downs podcast, Downs to Business. Caleb Downs, Ohio State Safety in the draft this week, obviously played his freshman year at Alabama. So he's a former teammate of Ty Simpson's.

So Caleb Downs, his brother Josh, the receiver, they're on the show. They're talking to Ty Simpson about the Rose Bowl. And Ty Simpson says this. Surprising what they did or where they is like good of a team is advertised? I mean, they won. So I wasn't surprised when they won. And after they beat us, we lost to both teams that were in the Natty. So I thought they were going to win that game against Miami.

I didn't know how it was going to go against y'all. From my point of view, right, I was like, they don't do much. Like, I was like, they do the same fitting every down. And so when I got the ball, I knew exactly what was going to happen. They just didn't mess up, bro. They were in the exact same spot they were supposed to be. And they were so well coached. It was so much different than the SSV.

SCC got, you know, they'll play man, they'll do these unorthodian coverage, you know, because it's just like, I don't know how it is. That game was crazy to me. Of course, I got hurt, so it was a, that was a bummer. But I just, I knew what they were going to do. And, you know, we couldn't really run the ball. We didn't really, you know, throw the, it just was a, it was so crazy to me how it happened. So it's a compliment.

He's talking about how well coached they are. But Brian Haynes, if I'm imagining, where he took offense here, it is at the idea of being called predictable on defense. That is probably what it was. Now, what Ty Simpson is saying is it was amazing because we knew everything that they were going to do and we still couldn't do Jack Squat because they executed it perfectly. So here's what Brian Haynes said. He quote tweets this video clip and says, adorable.

We also saw everything they were doing on every single snap. It's just that we exploited those clues and didn't get frozen. and crushed by them. Now, there's a couple things at work here. Did Bryant Haynes overreact to a compliment? Maybe. Does this work if you're recruiting for Indiana? Definitely.

Also, this enraged Alabama fans. Enraged them. Okay, we're going to come back to that, but I want to make sure that you highlight one thing that you said before the show started, which is who does this man work for? Kurt Signetti the ultimate

history does he have with this man he has worked for Kurt Signetti for more than 10 years on four different teams Oprah Winfrey Giff I mean like you get a troll and you get a troll

and you get a troll I mean I don't know I understand I understand both but like what so Alabama fans you're mad because well they're

mad because he's mad about a compliment, I guess. And so they called him stupid. Most of the Alabama fans just called him stupid, thinking he didn't understand that he was being complimented. I think he probably took it as a backhanded compliment. But the word adorable as someone who has been known to troll groups of people on the internet before tells me that this man is an experienced troll. Now, he doesn't have a long history of beefs on social media to go back through like I would or you would. But the way he handled it tells me that this man has done this in real life. And I'm guessing if you're around Kurt Signetti all the time,

you probably have to do that to survive. Question for you though. Yeah. This is important. Do you, if you were him, would you have been 5%, 15%, 20%, 50%, 50%, insulted by what was that? That's a good question. We should have him on and ask.

We should. I would like to know. I would like to know what percentage. Because he's smart enough to know that there is a compliment in there. But I don't know. Perhaps it's a 50% insult. Now, we can ask his boss. He's coming on the show later this week.

Kurt Signetti's going to be on Wednesday's show. So, yeah. We can check with, we can check with the master and see how the apprentice that would be great held out if we could kind of figure out a way to ask that would be good because I do think that like if you paint a beautiful portrait

and then somebody like makes fun of your paintbrush I don't know I'm not an artist but I don't think Ty Simpson was trying to make fun of him if somebody questions the quality of your paint brush I don't think he was questioning the quality either I think he was saying what they did work, evidenced by the fact that Alabama only had a sad field goal in the game. If I were on the other side of it,

I might take 10% of like, don't tell me I'm predictable. Okay. Well, and maybe that's what happened. Here's where I think he's just enjoying this more than he's offended by this. 24 hours later, Brian Haynes tweets this, that's all it took to break your entire fan base?

Wow, maybe I should have just said boo. No apologies, no compliments. Grow up, folks. He had a bad take and I said, the painful truth, bounce back better. He was going the hell out of it. Just so you know, I don't know if we're supposed to be playing dumb here. He was absolutely offended.

Oh, I, clearly. Yeah. But I also think he knows what he's doing. Like this post got ratio just as bad by the same people. Good for them. I'm on his side. No, that's what I mean. Yeah.

He's messing with them. He's playing them like a fiddle. So, by the way, I have a column and on three called Who Won the Beef. We're going to do this every time we get one of these. Who won the Beef's a really good bit on your part? Who won the Beef? And Brian Haynes clearly won this one. Because here's the thing.

It doesn't matter what he said. It doesn't matter what you feel about what he said. The score was 38 to 3. His defense allowed one pitiful, sad field goal. That's all you got. So no matter what he said, and no matter what you think or how you feel, he wins. And it would be a little bit closer of a debate, too,

if like the game was 38 to 34. Oh, no, no, no. We'd be handling this very differently if that was the case. But I think that two things can be true. I think that Ty Simpson could in his brain and his attention was definitely trying to compliment. Trying to compliment him. Yes. And when, and I think that like the delivery of that might not have been perfect and the receiving of that could also be offensive.

Like I think that like both people aren't. So here's the thing. Brian Haynes wins. I think Ty Simpson wins too because he comes off as kind of a standup guy here. Yeah. And everything he's done so far, it makes you feel like he's a standup guy. And I personally hope that on Thursday night, he gets rewarded by being a first round draft pick. We also have to acknowledge that we are in NFL draft week, which we haven't done on the show yet.

And it's so exciting. I don't know what it is about the draft. I love it. We'll talk more about it tomorrow. We'll definitely have a chat about the draft tomorrow. But I think Ty Simpson comes out a winner here. Brian Haynes is the big winner here. Alabama Twitter.

You got fish hooked by the guy. like he played you like a fiddle he he knew what he was doing and you fell for it you bought it regardless of whether he was doing it intentionally too just like don't be a baby you got your ass kicked move on it's like it's just but no they kept piling on with you're only going to be there once we got 18 national titles no he has one national title all of you have zero national titles the people who played for alabama and coached at alabama have the 18 national titles i just i feel like you know, the personal attacks and like the anger, it's just like a way of just kind of reliving the pain

that they put you through. And I think that like if I were, if I were an Alabama fan, I would not be talking shit to the guy who stuffed my team in the locker. I want them to play in the playoff again this year just so we can bring this back up. And guess what? They might. I want this.

Oh, bad. Well, here's the thing, Alabama fans. And I hate to, I don't want to make you upset. But one team is one of the favorites to win the national title and you're not one of them. And the other team. That doesn't, that doesn't mean anything.

Alabama, very talented roster. Indiana isn't only going to do it once. I think they were pretty consistent going to be in the playoff moving forward. I don't know Brian Haynes at all, but I do want to ask this. I want to make this request of him. Keep this energy when you're a head coach.

Because he's not far away from getting a head coaching job. Please keep doing this because, not because it'll help you win games or anything like that. We need this. We need this. these like oxygen. It is a long off season. I'm very curious too if Indiana,

and it's crazy to say, but Indiana was the lovable underdog for so long. Oh, they ain't lovable. We got asking Eddie about that. They are not lovable anymore. Yeah. They have pressed to the way.

And now you're the villain again. You know, we'll see, but that's how it happened. They're the villain for the first. They've never been the villain. Indiana's never been the villain in football. Are they the villain?

Are they the villain? They're the villain. I see a column in your head. I see the gears turning. Yeah, well, you already got this one. So maybe can I have signal? We'll have to like arm wrestle for significant. Oh, yeah.

But we know he's winning an arm wrestling match. I was going to say maybe we can do like a battle of wits and we know we'd win that one too. Like what do I have an advantage? You would win a battle of wits. Yeah, maybe wits. I was going to say eating. A battle of internet trolling? I think you'd beat me on that too.

Yeah. Although I don't know if you've noticed. but I've gotten much better at my internet stuff. No, I haven't. No, I haven't been in, I haven't been in a fight in like months online. Days! Is there what I'm forgetting about? There's always one.

Andy, keep a guy. For the, for the listeners and the viewers, when I log on to do our show, this is all I hear coming from Ari's mic. And not myself. off. But all it is is keyboard sounds because he is attacking someone on Twitter. You don't understand that I'm a day trader?

No, yeah, that's usually Twitter. But like I refrained because like we posted our list from Friday. By the way, didn't realize this, but happy we did it. People get very upset about uniform rankings. Yes, they do. And I didn't really respond to anybody. I like, I would have been like, I'm sorry, I don't like the same exact thing that you like.

but oh we by the way already came up with the topic for this week's random ranking yeah people are going to get just as mad and it's precious less consequential but people will get just as mad okay i am kind of can we talk about this for one minute and then we'll go into the course everybody is precious about their favorite team's uniform like if you're a not or name fan your team has the best uniform and you know is it possible And this isn't named only at Notre Dame. Notre Dame has beautiful uniforms, which I acknowledged on Friday and they didn't listen to the show. Is it possible that your favorite team, and I'm talking to everybody here, doesn't have the coolest color combination?

Like, is it possible? Or does every single person their favorite team has the best uniforms in college football? I went to a school, Ari, that has orange and blue. It's a great color combination. Orange doesn't go with that much. But it's a great color. You went to a school that has Navy and Red. Navy and Red go with everything. Yeah. I just like, I think it's funny. It's like I'm not criticizing Notre Dame. I'm not criticizing Ohio State. Like it's like, you all have nice. There's a lot of beautiful uniforms and there's five. Ari, how dare you say that my thing isn't the best thing? But everybody, that's the thing. It's like, my thing is the best all the time. And it's just like, God, just like, does anybody talk like this in like real life or is this stuff? Like I think. Yes. No. People. are like this in real life all the time.

This is why we're doing these random rankings. This is just the bar conversations that we always had as sports writers. Andy, I went to Arizona. I don't think Arizona has the best uniforms. Like, I don't understand why people can't ever... Well, Arizona doesn't have the best uniforms. That's why... I understand

that, but everybody in my mentions, their favorite team has the best uniforms. And I'm just trying to say, like, is there anybody out there that has the capacity to root for their favorite team, but also acknowledge they don't mind not have to be the We don't want that, Ari. We don't want that. That doesn't help us.

We're talking about why I have a hard time. Professionally, we want people to say you are an idiot because you do not think my thing is the best thing ever. I know. I just like, I don't, I don't, like you called me a troll today. People call me a troll all the time online. And I truly do not want to be a troll. Well, you think that's, you are a troll.

That's the best part. No, because I think you're not even trying and you're so good at it. Yeah, like I think trolls. calling somebody a troll is somebody who posts something or forms an opinion with the, with the expectation of making people mad. And I never do that. Coach Letterman, if you, if you're on Twitter at all, you know who Coach Letterman is. That's a troll.

Every single person who tweets something out there that they don't personally believe only to get a negative reaction. That is a troll. I have never once done that. I can't believe that like I am the walking epitome. I just love that your, but your opinions are so naturally offensive to people, but that's how they take them. It's insane.

And I actually, like, I know maybe I'm mentally ill, but I really do not think that I arrive at my opinions in some crazy, backwards, insane way. Like, I really don't, I think I'm a rational person. Hey, are you insane? You had the purple Clemson Jersey is the fifth-est uniform. I love them. I love them. I'm sorry.

I don't like exactly more than Notre Dame, better than Penn State, better than Auburn. I can keep going here. And you wonder why people get mad at you. Do you think the purple Clemson uniforms? It's not even the best Clemson uniform. It's the worst Clemson. You know about personal preference. I'm sorry.

I like it. But you're wrong and you're a person on the internet who is wrong. And you have to understand that. I also, as a person on the internet who is wrong, feel your pain. I'm also very amused by the fact that we came out of the ranking and you called me an idiot instead I suck at this and then we had like the same list after that. You called the purple Clemson jersey, the fifth best uniform in all of college football. I like them very much. It's not even the second best at Clemson.

You know what's crazy about this with the Clemson jersey too? Is they wear white pants now with their purple jerseys that objectively looks better. but Ari was hell-bent and determined on these orange pants. It's not even the best purple jersey combination they have. So bad. Guys, pull up the list again. This is like when we were ranking Thanksgiving or drafting Thanksgiving sides and our friend Scott Docterman took cottage cheese.

That's what this is. I don't, that's slander and I'm not going to accept it. That is the cottage cheese of uniform combinations. You look at my uniform combinations. There's a clear preference here, which is very vibrant, nice colors combined. Yeah, you chose wrong, Ari. You're wrong on the internet. Clemson.

Just admit it. Clemson has that. Okay. All right. Can I just be wrong and not a troll, though? Like, I'm not trolling you. I'm just wrong. Can that just be the-

Clip it, River. Clip it, clip it, clip it. Walked it right into that one. All right, now. The truly fun part of the day. Great interview with one of our favorite guests. We've had him on the show multiple times. You're going to hear him plenty because he wins a lot.

And so we're going to keep having him on because his team continues to be relevant. Jake Dickert won nine games in year one at Wake Forest. Now quite a bit of change, especially in the offensive side of the ball. How do the Demon Deacons keep it going? Here's Jake Dickert. Honor to be joined by Wake Forest head coach Jake Dickert. And the Demon Deacons have been, well, they've been working in the dark, but they came into the light for the spring game on Saturday.

And you, on the back of the motorcycle with the deacon, you're here, you're alive. That's good. Yeah, I always like to say not all my ideas are great. I think my wife can attest to that. It was kind of a spur of the moment. I saw it heading out there, and I always wanted to do it a little bit. So there's never been more energy guys in Wake Forest football within our program. And, you know, it's excited through the play.

players through the university and just obviously our fan base. It was something fun to do to kick off our spring game. Yeah, that is terrifying, not because of the motorcycle, well, because of the demon deacon. He's large. He does the same thing too. He just tries to create a little bit of confidence as you're behind them. And he revs that thing up.

So you got to be aware of the diesel trail as soon as you got off. I wasn't quite ready for that puppy. Well, you were ready for this game. And it's an interesting dynamic you've got because you bring back most of your defense a lot new on offense. And, you know, how do you deal with that? Because, you know, usually in a spring practice, the defense tends to be a little bit ahead anyway. But when you've got new quarter, you know, you brought in G.O. Lopez, who's, you've reunited with Robbie Zell, his former OC. But then you've got Steele, who was with you last year at quarterback.

How do you manage that when you've got a defense that, you know, a lot of those guys know what you do? and they just ready to roll. Yeah, it's kind of a little bit, and you know this when you're, you know, kind of rebuilding teams. You know, the one thing we said last year is we're going to maximize the moment and create success, and we went out there and did that.

We reestablished the foundation of the team. You know, that was retaining, you know, really most of all of our great defensive personnel and having a kind of a continued rebuild on offense. So I'm excited about what we're at. We're a lot more athletic. Geo has got a really good job coming, in here and just taking command.

You know, I just think his presence, ever since all the way in January, he's not afraid of having a hard conversation, get in front of the group. You know, it's going to obviously be another iteration of our offense and more towards the ideal of what Coach Ezel wants to do, you know, with a downfield passing game, quick RPO's, and obviously a physicality at the line of scrimmage that we always demand.

So it's been a good spring. I think our guys on offense especially have hit that maximum point. We've got two more skilled practices before we hit summer. So excited about where they're at and what we need to continue to do better. Jake, G.O. was a pretty big story last year because he was the quarterback that Bill Belichick selected. And then obviously things in Chapel Hill didn't go as a lot of people might have envisioned. Can you tell me a little bit about the evaluation process when you're going after a guy that's kind of been through it a little bit? And what are you looking for on film and in conversations to know that he could be your guy?

I think the biggest thing, guys, it's to understand that we're all built through our failures. Okay, we are. I am, I got my first full-time job and I got fired that same year. Like, that's what this business is. You know, Gio got introduced to that, but he also understood, just like I do as a coach, fit is very important. Okay. And in that quarterback position, it's really unique to make sure that he's comfortable

speaking the same language and seeing it through our eyes. and I think that's what we have now. It was really unique because, you know, when I'm interviewing offensive coordinators when I first got the job here, because we completely changed styles from what we did at Washington State, I watched almost every rep of South Alabama and Gio Lopez.

Right. So when the moment came, you know, obviously Coach Ezel spoke to the character, the leader, the mindset. You know, I already knew the skill set and what he was capable of doing. So putting all those things together, it was just a home run fit for us.

And he's had a chip on. his shoulder. He's not out there to prove everybody wrong, right? He works every day to prove us right and his teammates right and wake for us right in this journey. And I think that's what kind of has inspired me and that's why he's captured the heart of this football team. Well, and you mentioned that you'd like it to be a more vertical passing game, but both QBs you have can run. Yes. And it feels like you've got a lot of options offensively, whereas last year it was a lot of the defense has to carry the day here. Yeah, and I think that's the biggest thing is we've got to be more multiple.

We just really believe that the multiplicity at the quarterback position and how he can create an escape has to be part of what we do. But it's all going to start up front. I think we have a more blended skill set at tailback. It's going to be more physical downhill, run you over than it was with Demand last season. So we got to be a little bit more consistent at the wide receiver position. And I think our guys have done a good job of that so far, led by Carlos Hernandez, who's our one big playmaker that returns. I know it's probably better from a coaching standpoint and maybe your sleep schedule to return a lot of players from a functioning unit.

But how invigorating is it is for a coach and for a staff to get a bunch of new pieces and try to mold them in together into something new and special? Well, I think there's always a magic a little bit to this guy's program building, especially in today's era. I mean, it's no secret that we've created major league baseball. And there's programs like Wake Forest that has to play a little bit of money ball. And that means we can't always retain all of our best players, right? And that's not from a bad standpoint. That's from a planning standpoint. We signed 32 high school players, which was, you know,

one of the biggest high school classes in the country. And we are not afraid here at Wake Forest of developing players and athletes. We believe in our process is worked all the way through. and we got to continue to make sure we're building teams around the vision of what these guys are going to become, not what they're at when you're making those decisions in January. So that's trusting us as coaches, mentors, and leaders to make sure we're building teams around that. So I think we've reset a really stable foundation. We've really maintained that experience level that we've needed throughout the core of our team.

So now it's time to go out there and coach these guys and make sure we let it rip and make it happen. Well, and so you mentioned money ball, and part of that decision is there are going to be guys that you probably can't afford to keep. And I did like Melvin Siani's a guy you brought in last year from Temple was great for you. And now he's at Texas. I mean, do you know at some point where somebody's playing like that? Like, okay, we're going to have to fight off a lot of people for this guy? Absolutely. I mean, that that specific situation is obviously tough one, right?

because after the season, we have open and honest conversations with all of our players and, you know, they're representatives. And we signed Melbourne. And we plan for Melvin to be here. And we recruited around having that piece. And, you know, obviously that isn't the way it shook out. And, you know, that's part of life a little bit. So, you know, I just think as we go and we continue to evolve through, you know, this new age of college football, what does that look like? Right, but I don't want to say like, poor is me, woe is me.

Like we're going to retain our best players. Like that's what we're going to work to do and continue to push because you can get everywhere you want to be right here at Wake Forest. Well, and one of the new guys you brought in Deuce Blades, the corner from FIU had an interception in the game yesterday. I read everything I read is like, this is one of those interceptions you cannot blame the quarterback for. Is it in the end zone stole it away from the receiver?

When you get a guy that you know is going to be able to control, tribute immediately. How much fun is it when you see that manifest itself? Well, it's great. And I think it's the vision of our whole personnel department. I'll go even go rewind the clock a year ago, Karan Pronte, Lederius Webb, two people that nobody knew about in college football, you know, coming from South Allen, coming from North Carolina A&T, you know, to be two of the best corners or two of the best combo corners in the ACC, like that's how you build great teams. Right. So to have Deuce in same type of mold coming from FIU, a guy that wants to really, really hungry, go prove himself, guys that has a ton of snaps played.

Snaps played is one of our biggest metrics that we go look for in the portal. Everyone that's going out versus everyone we bring in, we want to add the value of game day to our roster. And I think that's what Deuce has done. And he's kind of one of those quiet assassins that doesn't say anything and just plays to a really high standard. Obviously, the last name says he's got a lot of. lot of high pedigree, so they're very familiar with doing what he did yesterday.

Hey, Jake, you said earlier something about the magic needed or it is kind of magic to build a program. But we have heard coaches say that you're building a team more than you are building a program. Back in the day, when you were building a program, it was probably a slower burn. You were, you know, recruiting and developing. You're still doing that, but it meant that you had to have these guys in a lot of cases for three or four years. But when you do, you do it. go out and win nine games like you did last year, how important is momentum still in building a program? Because I'm not sure I buy into just year after year. It's something completely different. Well, I definitely didn't get into it for year after year. I'm a big believer,

guys, that programs are designed to specifically get the success that they work for, right? What Indiana did, like, that didn't just happen. What Wake Forest did, that didn't just happen. There was a vision, a belief, and an execution point to get the results that we work for. And that's just a no-excuse approach about how we do it. I think Wade Forest, you know, I said this on this show before. There's a corporation of football going on. And I'm okay with saying that we're just below that. We still are about 18 to 23-year-olds.

We still are about this is the best developmental time of their life. Weight Forest setting up for life after football, well, doing big-time things through this game. It's not just teams to me. And I will retire the next day, guys. I start treating these guys just like player acquisitions instead of people that I need to mentor and serve. So I think that's a daily approach. This is a transactional components, but we want to be, you know, extremely, you know, transcendent and how we're doing it and what we're doing.

And I just appreciate Wake Forest really buying in to us, our program, and our people. Because I tell this all the time, like, we had a lot of success. And since the season, we've lost one staff member, right? So we're willing to go out and create stability for our team and our players. And I think that's going to give us success in the long run. Well, let's talk about the developmental piece because you've got these guys who were with you last year, who experienced the success last year, but maybe they weren't playing much. And now they're moving into bigger roles.

How do you make them realize that what you did last year wasn't easy? that this isn't just handed to you every year. You don't just walk in and win nine games. Yeah, I think that's part of the poison of success, guys. Not a lot of people talk about. We all talk about failures. We all talk about adversity and struggle. The poison of success.

And you guys alluded to at the top of the show, our mentality is built in the dark. I think Coach Vrable said it really artfully. You can have 105 different personalities, but you better have one mentality on a football team. And ours is built in the dark. like process over prize, all those type of things that go into how we do it. But we came back in January, the phrase off of that was lights out.

The spotlight found us, right? They're highlighting our place. They're highlighting me. They're highlighting some of our players. They're highlighting geo. Biggest thing, man, turn the lights out. I think the best high achievers in life have enough of awareness to create success for themselves and have the opportunity to go back and step back into the dark

and create a new version of what you can become. Like Devon Patterson, you've created success for yourself doing it a certain way. Those ways are no longer good enough. You have to recalibrate and re-accel if you want to get to a new chapter of your life and a new version of this team. So those are some of the things that we constantly talk about. And you better get out of the spotlight, get back into the dark, and figure out ways that we can go about getting that shit back on our shoulder.

Jake, you look at your schedule last year. And it looks like you were in every game but one. And you win nine games. Like as a coach, do you ever look back and go, man, we were maybe two or three breaks or drives away? And then how does that drive you into wanting more, not just to achieve what you did, but wanting more and your team wanting more? Yeah, I think, you know, obviously the non-conference schedule was very friendly. And we took a lot of advantage of that. But going into the ACC games, you know, we talk about in recruiting.

We're a really bad call against Georgia Tech and a really bad half of football against NC State from being in the ACC championship game ourselves. Right. So what I love about our league is that is possible. Yes, Wake Forest and Year 1 can do those type of things. So I think we use that to our advantage. And I think it's kind of inspiring for a team. It's inspiring for our coaching staff, our fan base.

But now, you know, guys, you know how to talk about it. Like the external bar is raised. internally our standards have always been high right so we just got to keep sticking to our process keep being one and oh and taking the moment for what it is and that's maximizing every day possible Jake we had oh right I just wanted to follow up on something uh you mentioned yourself earlier on Indiana and what they did I think that Indiana success has kind of opened the the Pandora's box of good dreams for everybody who's a college football fan and we even got a question in our mailbag show on Friday.

What's another program or who would be a surprising program that can do this? And there's, you know, Andy and I came to the realization that there are no answers because we used to say it's impossible for this team to win one. It's possible for everybody. How invigorating is that to know that, you know, the worst program and program history won the national title last year or in college football history, I should say. Yeah, and I think it's a show, though, for a lot of people that success, investment and success are very tied together, right? I think there's a program that finally, you know, got the right

leadership, you know, got the right stability, and then got the right investment from a lot of different people. And then, you know, success can follow that. You know, I think the same thing at Wake Forest, you know, 10 years ago, we were in a almost like a single wide for a locker room and a facility. Right. Now you have some of the best facilities in the ACC. So things have followed that but i think that's very inspiring to know that it's out there you don't have to be one of these traditional blue buds to break through and make it but i think at you know smaller programs maybe people would say you got to be able to ride the waves and you got to be able to strike while the iron's hot and uh you know i think that's what we're doing right now at wake how much non football

is involved now like i know your ad john curry works his butt off to try to get you resources but how much do you have to do that as well yeah it seems like like, you know, more and more, you know, Craig Bull told me a long time ago, he goes, Jake, if you want to get out of coaching, become a head coach, right? So there's a, there's a, just a plethora of different things that you've got to do from a fan, a booster, a retention, an acquisition standpoint that you got to go out there and do it. I know May is going to be really big. I'm very thankful to not have the portal this year to be able to spend, you know, a couple of weeks out, not just spreading the vision of Wake Forest football, but getting people

to invest. You have to capitalize on winning, right? You have to make sure you're advancing your program. And like you said earlier, people don't think, well, coach only had this last year won nine games. What does he need more for? Right. So those are the things that we've got to keep pushing here at Wake and just changing the mindset of, you know, people because I think our guys are worth investing in it. So back when you were an assistant, you'd be out at spring practice, high school guys. Now you're doing a series of fundraising while your assistants all go look at high school guys. Well, I do get to play like the number one golf course in the country here in a couple weeks with some of our boosters. So I'm fired up about that. My golf game. Oh, so it's not all bad.

Okay. It's not all bad guys. I'm not going to say it's all bad either, right? Yeah. You know, the thing that is interesting is that being a good football coach didn't always mean that you wanted to fundraise or you wanted to engage in these things. Do you have a good. like fundraising line like what what's the thing that you say to people that makes them want to open the checkbook and i've got one in my office here so do good yeah i don't you have a check i have a check book yeah i don't know what kind of check it can write but it's a book well yeah that's right it's a book i think the i don't really have a pitch is more it's more importantly just sharing the i think people really want to know the vision and they want to understand who you are as a person

I still believe people invest in people, right? And I think that's business, right? So, you know, they'll never remember what you said. They'll always remember how you made them feel. I think that's how we go about it. Very blue-collar guy, to be honest with you, some of my best speeches is just let's go have a whiskey. Let's go talk about it. Let's just hang out.

Let's see what you want to invest in, right? Not just me pitching you on things, like what's important to you? I think when those two things marry up, there's a million things in today. world to invest in and our players being number one. Well, it's interesting to me, Jake, and I don't know if you, because you've dealt with this more, but I've met, you know, some of these quote unquote big time boosters. And it's interesting how so many of them do come from humble beginnings. Maybe they have a blue collar background.

I think we assume millionaires or more, you know, somebody with a monocle, you know, sipping, sipping brandy. That's not how most of these people are. Is there a demon Deacon have a monocle? Or am I making that right? He does. I can believe. Yeah.

Because I told it to the team the other day when I was kind of, we kind of had a ring reveal and all this stuff. You know, like the circle of civilization, right? Like hard times create tough men. Tough men create easy times, easy times, create soft men. And then the cycle continued. And I think to your humble beginning points, I think there's a lot of people that go through tough times or hard times you create really tough people.

And that's why they're successful. and you know, don't lose that. My journey is one of those, right? 18 years of coaching, moved 11 times, one of only two power four head coaches to coach at every level. 18 years ago, I thought it was going to be a math teacher. I had a job in about three weeks before I went to that job. I took a GA coaching at my alma mater, UW Stevens Point. So I think I relate to that in their journey and I relate to their investment and want to be part of something great. So sometimes it is just like, let's not talk about business. Let's get to know each other. We hit J. Fleck on the show the other day. He was going to be a social studies teacher.

So we may be able to put together an entire curriculum. Yeah. We got Signetti on later. We need this week. We need to ask him what was he going to teach. That is the fallback for everybody. Yeah, you know, I thought I was going to come into this world and take over business. I thought that was my deal. I took my first econ class in my first semester. I'm like, there's no way. I'm doing this stuff. So my family was a long line of teachers. My dad was an education for 40 years. I was always good at math.

Now I try to look at my daughter's freshman, you know, math, and I have no idea. Yeah. So it's all changed since I went through. Hey, Jake, I don't think that there, I mean, I think that is probably a limit to financially based on just the alumni size of the university, right? So you're probably never going to be the Los Angeles Dodgers, but you could be a mid, you know, in Major League Baseball, what is it, the middle tier, middle market teams

that have won the World Series? Like, what's the goal? What team do you want to be? Like, the Cleveland Gardenians? I'm from Wisconsin, right? The cheese is right behind me here. So the Milwaukee Brewers are the best mid-market team in all of baseball.

You know, you can't get over the hump in the playoffs, so we're working on that. But I think it's like that. And, you know, like I said, invest in the right pieces, know when enough is enough, have a tremendous evaluation process and just keep coaching them, guys. I think that's the biggest thing.

When you kind of wait for us, the biggest thing when recruits tell me when they leave, it's like, man, it's about football here. And I think that's refreshing for kids. I really do. And I think they're seeing the value in that pretty quickly. Well, Jake, we appreciate it, you know, was going to be a math teacher after he thought he was going to be ruling the business world. still playing golf millionaires. Hey, it's all worked out.

Andy, Andy, before we let him go, I don't think we made a huge mistake with him last time, which is he did not, he lived through what had to have been your worst nightmare. He had a four and a half gallon tub of mayonnaise. Oh, that's right. That's right. What was that like?

Did it get in your mouth and tell us? Because we always talk about like the bowl games. and the celebrations and the pageantry that happens at them. What was it like having four and a half gallons of mayonnaise dumped on you? And can you explain it in vivid detail to Andy, please? Yeah, it's one of those life moments, guys. If I'm being honest, so as the week was coming up, I convinced my kids to do it with me.

I said, guys, we're going to be the first one to do this as a family. And I had all four of them. And this just happened by strategy, guys. I was with my daughter and my boys were in the front. The Mayo kind of hit me in the side of the head. and then went all the way over my kids. My dad's like, Dad, it went down my underwear.

We're going to throw those away. It's okay. They water it down. Here's when it got me. I'm trying to think of the ESPN reporter, but he took out a sandwich. He took it against my sweatshirt and that's... And I was like, oh, okay, now, you know,

the moment flips, and you're like, yeah, I got to go take a shower. You smell bad for about three, three days, and then I think it finally comes out. But it's the sweet smell of victory, guys. So I can't see anything bad about it. You know, Andy despises mayonnaise. I'm sure you put that in the air. I've gagged.

I had a bet a few years ago on the show where some team lost, and I had to eat a giant spoonful of mayonnaise. And I took the spoonful, and as soon as it hit my taste buds, boom, right back on the on the camera lens. It was bad. So I'm glad it all worked out for you. I like the strategy. They didn't,

they didn't bang you on the head with the barrel like Shane Beamer. So that's good. Yeah. And here's a little trick. Like on the video board, they'll show people and the fans just squirting mayo into their mouth. And I've heard that's actually replaced by frosting. So I don't like you know,

yeah. I know those people at Dukes. They're devious. They're devious. They're devious. It was a great week. I actually like mayonnaise. That doesn't sound terrible,

but the thought of somebody taking a sandwich and rubbing it up against your clothes as it drips off your body is kind of. It was an epic moment. I gave him a sum of credit. Yeah, you win the mustard bowl next year? I'll do that. I'll be the sideline report off scoop up.

No problem. Manez can't do it. Jake, thank you so much. Always pleasure to be on, guys. Go Diggs. Appreciate you, Jake. Thank you. That is Wake Forest coach, Jake Dickert.

Well, I don't want to think about the Mayo Bath anymore. All right, no more. Erase, erase, erase. No more. Ari. Does the demon deacon logo strike you as terrifying and kind of like the ICP logo? Remember that? Insane clown posse?

Let me put it this way. If I woke up and the demon deacon were just standing in the corner of my bedroom, I'd probably have a heart attack. You saw him on the clips, too. It's like you saw what was on his chest. You saw what was on the hats behind him. Is he holding a cane or is that a knife? It's a cane.

It might have a knife at the end. Yeah. Might have a knife at the end. Yeah, well, you push a button in it. I mean, I'm just saying it's a very terrifying. He's a demon deacon. He's not an angel deacon. Yeah, no, I know.

That's what's terrifying. Tomorrow. Let's talk some NFL draft, R. Yeah. Draft week. We'll talk to you Tuesday.