Andy & Ari On3 - College Football's Most Interesting Coach: Biff Poggi | What the Netflix Johnny Football doc left out

Episode Date: August 11, 2023

Want to watch the episode instead? Head on over to YouTube, don't forget to subscribe!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvvHqWHKZzwBefore Biff's interview, Andy breaks down a busy news day in college football. The state of Iowa gambling investigation ensnared four Iowa State players and three current or former Iowa players. They were all charged with tampering with records for attempting to conceal their identities while placing bets. The headliner is Iowa State tailback Jirehl Brock -- who led the Cyclones in rushing in 2022 -- but the true head-scratcher is Iowa State defensive tackle Isaiah Lee, who placed a money line bet on Texas in the 2021 Texas-Iowa State game. (Which Iowa State won 30-7.) (0:00-7:42) Elsewhere, five-star plus edge rusher Colin Simmons from Duncanville, Texas, committed to Texas. (7:43-10:00) Meanwhile, Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick bemoaned the fate of Cal and Stanford, which still remain without a conference home. Andy sent a tweet that turned into a column that proposed a new Notre Dame-led conference. Hey, it's the No Bad Ideas phase of realignment. (10:01-17:07) Then, Poggi joins to smoke a cigar and explain why he gives an anti-recruiting pitch to players considering Charlotte. He also addresses his sign-off at American Athletic Conference Media Days after only getting three questions. (17:08-38:52) Later, Billy Liucci of TexAgs.com joins to discuss the Netflix Johnny Manziel documentary that dropped this week. Billy was a main character in the doc, and he takes us behind some of the stories that made it compelling television. (38:53-1:05:04) Finally, the Extra Point is about NFL Preseason from the eyes of a college football fan. The NFL fans may be new to some of these names, but the true college football fans always remember them before they hit it big time. (1:05:05-1:07:32)

Welcome to Andy's on three news today in the world of college football. Just this afternoon, it comes down the state of Iowa gambling investigation has ensnared seven more players for from Iowa, three current or former Iowa Hawkeyes. They've been charged with tampering with records, which basically is concealing your identity, one placing bets. And some of these are wild. So the headliner of this probably is Jarrell Brock, who is Iowa State's leading rusher from last year. He's been held out of practice so far this year for undisclosed reasons, which I think we know what the reasons are now uh but the the craziest one is isaiah lee a defensive tackle from iowa state so according to the court records obtained by the des moines register isaiah lee placed a money line wager on the Texas Iowa state game in 2021.

Now, for those who don't gamble, what the money line is, is who do you think is going to win? There's no point spread. You say, I think team X is going to win. If team X is the favorite, you can win less. If team X is the underdog, you can win more. So he placed a bet on Texas to beat Iowa State in a game in which he played. Iowa State won the game 30 to seven guys. So the next time I incorrectly predict a football game and you write to me on Twitter or you come into the comments here and say, you should be fired because you incorrectly predicted the result of that football game. Guys, this man was in practice all week and he bet on Texas and Iowa State won. How am I supposed to compete if he can't even win that bet? Come on. But seriously, that is a terrible beat right there. And in a lot of these cases, you've got guys betting in games

that they either played in or were dressed for or are part of the team for. Guys, at this point, you're just failing an intelligence test. Don't bet on your own games. I am not one of those people who's going to say college athletes shouldn't gamble at all. I can't say that. We're going to advertise gambling places here. We're going to talk about it a lot. We're going to talk about point spreads, totals. God knows when we talk about IO, we're going to talk about over-unders.

So I'm never going to say they should be banned from gambling completely. But I do understand why they should be banned from gambling on their own sport. That's the one thing that you've got to have really hard and fast rules about. You've got to say you can never gamble on your own sport because for the viewers to feel like the sport is on the up and up, they can't think anybody's fixing the games. And if people have money on the games, then they're going to be worried about it.

And I mean, if you look at the numbers on Lee, 115 bets for over $885. This is very small stakes here. It doesn't matter though. It's probably the end of his career at this point. And also how do you face the guys in the locker room if they know you bet against them? That's rough. That is really, really rough. But I hope this is the lesson. I hope other players are watching. And like when we talked to Dan, what's the last week he said, Oh no, no, don't, don't let them gamble at all. They don't need to begin. Listen, I don't care if they're putting money on NBA games, probably shouldn't be betting on any college sports because they're around other college athletes might potentially have an effect on the outcome, but never bet on your own sport on your own team.

This is not a complicated concept. This is not new information. They have been putting that don't bet on it poster in the locker room for years and years and years and years. Tyler Smith says, as an ISU fan, I hope this scares the athletes from doing any of this, but I'm afraid it's gonna or already happened ever. I guarantee you, Tyler, it's happened in other places. And I realize people think we're probably piling on Iowa and Iowa State here.

That's the state that is investigating it now. The state of Iowa is investigating this. I imagine there will be other states where sports wagering is legal that will have their own investigations. And we've heard either anecdotally or even in some of those surveys the NCAA does that a lot of college athletes are gambling. So we know that a lot of college students are gambling, period. But again, if you bet on your own sport and your own team, you are simply failing an intelligence test. It's not that hard. And for God's sake, don't bet the money line against your own team. But again, I don't want

to hear it when you get mad at me because I predicted the wrong result in the football game. If a guy can be in every practice the week his team goes and kicks the crap out of Texas and think Tess is going to win, what hope do the rest of us have? I've always said 18 to 22-year-olds are a wildly unpredictable bunch, and they are. And so I will continue to believe that large groups of 18 to 22 year olds are wildly unpredictable. And I think this is just more evidence of that. In other news, better news for a couple of teams. Five star plus.

That's just something we do it on three. We don't just have five stars. We have five star plus. Five star plus. We have five-star plus, five-star plus edge rusher, Collins Simmons from Duncanville, Texas, announced his commitment, did a little fake out, little fake out with the LSU hat, if you're watching the video,

but then he throws up the Longhorns hat. He's going to Texas. So this is the first time in a long time that the number one edge rusher in the country is committed to Texas. And there has been an uptick in recruiting under Steve Sorkisian. I know what you're going to say. The Taylor and the Mack Brown era, Charlie Strong era, Tom Herman era, they were getting highly ranked players. They were. You're right, but they weren't necessarily getting them at the, the primary prestige positions,

the ones that you would have at the top of your NFL draft board chart, like the offensive tackle, the edge rusher that, that. So now they did with Quinn Ewers at quarterback and Arch Manning now with quarterback, but you're seeing it more recently on the offensive line, especially that class led by Calvin Banks in 2022. So this is the first time the top-ranked edge rusher in the country has been headed to Texas since 2010, Jackson Jeffcoat. South Carolina's gotten the top-ranked edge rusher twice since then.

That was Jadavian Clowney and Jordan Burch, who has since transferred to Oregon. Ohio State's done it a few times. They got one Bosa brother was the number one overall. One was not. And then Chase Young was the number one edge rusher. And then you've got Alabama's gotten it a bunch of times. Will Anderson actually was the number two in one class. But you've got Texas A& it a bunch of times. Will Anderson actually was the number two in one class, but you've got,

you know, Texas A&M got Miles Garrett, Oregon got Kayvon Thibodeau. Texas has not been that in that mix. So first time in 13 years that Texas has landed the number one edge rusher prospect in the country. Good luck to Colin Simmons at Texas. Assuming he signs there. Remember

we are duty bound to point out that all verbal commitments are non-binding until they sign a national letter of intent in December. Also, Simmons' teammate Caden Durham committed today and he is going to LSU. He looked at Oklahoma. He was looking at Texas A&M, but he becomes the first running back in LSU's class of 2024. Really good pickup for the Tigers. He's also going to run track. This is Brian Kelly getting it done on the recruiting trail. He's a top 100 prospect. This is what LSU needs to do needs and it's interesting because that position which always seemed to be a position of depth for LSU has not been a position of depth of late so that's another big pickup but the Texas deal you have that deep offensive line class you you're getting the number

one edge rusher that's the type of stuff you've got to do to compete in the SEC. That's what Alabama does. That's what Georgia does. So it bodes well for Texas. Now you got to do it on the field. I will continue to say this over and over and over until I see it. You have to win the games you're supposed to win. This is a year when Texas is going to be favored to win the big 12. They have a lot of talent on this roster. And I know some of you are going to say it again. They've always had highly ranked recruiting classes, but you're going to get used to me on this show explaining stars matter. Like my friend Ari Wasserman says, yes, but I also want to know how many guys do you have on the way out the door who NFL teams are going to covet.

And that's one of those things that Texas has not had that over the last few years. They have that now. They definitely have that now. Because Kelvin Banks, who's got two more years in college, offensive tackle, he will be coveted by NFL teams. Jatavian Sanders, the tight end, coveted by NFL teams. Xavier Worthy, the receiver, will be coveted by NFL teams.

These are the types of people that you got to have if you're going to compete in the SEC. And that's what Texas is trying to do. So we got those commits. Now we got to talk about this Notre Dame thing. I sent out a tweet today, made a lot of people on the internet mad. It was actually about 50-50. 50% of the people said, well, this is a pretty good idea. 50% of the people said you're the stupidest person who has ever lived on this planet. And I don't understand how you're allowed to take some of the oxygen that should be reserved for smarter people. So here's what happened. Jack Swarbrick, the athletic director of Notre Dame, talked to Heather Dennett from ESPN, and he bemoaned the situation that Cal and Stanford find themselves in.

They're without a conference, two of the most prestigious academic institutions, not just in America, but in the world. And he's right about that. It is terrible that they don't have a conference home right now. But my first thought was, you know what? Notre Dame could do something about that. Notre Dame, if it wanted to, could actually form its own conference. And I even threw out an idea. Notre Dame, Cal, Stanford, Army, Air Force, Navy. That gives Notre Dame two of its traditional

rivals, Stanford and Navy, other games that people would tune in and watch, but not so challenging that Notre Dame can't win them, leave space because basically it would replace Notre Dame's ACC scheduling opponent. So leave space for Notre Dame to play USC and to play like they're playing Ohio State this year, teams like that. It's a win-win. Who loses in that situation? Notre Dame makes a deal again with NBC. It keeps most of the money, but breaks off a bunch for everybody else. Army-Navy, that game is a massive TV property.

It's owned by CBS until 2028. But hey, you can break them at it. Or start a bidding war between NBC and CBS. Now I know what you're thinking. You got to have eight teams in every sport and have a conference in the NCAA. Don't throw NCAA rules at me in situations like this. Guess who makes the rules? The schools.

If Notre Dame's like, hey, everybody, you mind if we form our own conference? They'll make a rule that reduces the number that you need in a conference. And this could be a football-only conference if you want. You could have Cal and Stanford park their other sports in the Pacific Coast Conference, just like BYU did when it was an independent in football. You can call it something like the Independent Conference. It'd be great. The reason I put this out there, and then I wrote a column about it later, is because I'm tired of the people in charge of college sports saying, this is terrible. This is awful. Everybody's just going for the money. Yeah, you all are. We know. But instead of just saying these platitudes, why not actually do something?

And that's the difference because all of these people that run college sports say a lot of things and they almost always do the opposite. So if Notre Dame believes so fervently that Cal and Stanford need a conference home, Notre Dame could make them a conference home. Will Notre Dame do that? Absolutely not. And you will never hear Notre Dame must join a conference from me. I hope Notre Dame is never forced into joining a conference. I love the history in the Notre Dame independence story. I think it's really cool that Notre Dame football being blackballed by fielding Yost in the Western Conference, the Proto Big Ten back in 1910, turned Notre Dame the university into what it is now.

They had to go play a nationwide schedule. They had to go play Army in 1913, introduce the world of the Ford Pass. They had to go out to USC. They had to go everywhere. That turned a small Catholic school in northern Indiana into the greatest Catholic university in America. That made them a national name. It increased applications from across the country so they could be more selective with their students.

It's really cool that Notre Dame is independent. I love it. And I think what's going to happen, as long as there are at-large spots in the college football playoff, especially as many as there are, and with the possibility of conferences consolidating a little bit and maybe some more coming open, Notre Dame doesn't have to join a conference. Notre Dame can sign its deal with NBC, rake in a bunch of money, and yes, NBC will pay Notre Dame a bunch of money because Notre Dame,

unlike most schools, moves the meter on television. And you can say what you want. Oh, Big Ten schools and the SEC, they need to just stop scheduling Notre Dame. They're not going to do that. You want to know why? Because if you schedule Notre Dame, you fill your stadium and lots of people watch on TV. Everybody wants that.

So I'm not going to criticize Notre Dame for staying independent, wanting to stay independent, doing its own thing, doing what's best for Notre Dame. What I'm criticizing is, stop saying all of this is so bad when you're doing the same thing that caused all of this other stuff. What caused this is schools acting in their own best interest. It was in Oregon and Washington's best interest to go to the Big Ten. It was in Oregon and Washington's best interest to go to the Big Ten. It was in USC and UCLA's best interest to go to the Big Ten. It was in Oklahoma and Texas's best interest to go to the SEC. It was in the Big 12 school's best interest to take the four-corner schools from the Pac-12 because they would have been eaten otherwise. So don't just say, well, this is awful,

and I wish someone would do something about it. If you can actually do something about it, instead say, sucks for them, but we're going to do what's best for us. And that's what Notre Dame's going to do, and that's fine. But don't say, well, I wish somebody could do something about it. You can, but you're not going to. That's all right.

But just say sucks for them and move on. End of rant. When we come back, we have an interview that I'm very excited for you to see. You may know Biff Poggi from his performance at American Athletic Conference Media Days. He got three questions. He got very mad about this. He stormed off.

You may know him from the documentary on HBO about the high school that he was coaching and he was essentially funding. You may know him from what he did at Michigan the past couple of years where he was basically the guy behind the guy with Jim Harbaugh. This is one of the most fascinating people in college football. Biff Poggi was a hedge fund manager by day, high school football coach by night, who won multiple Maryland State titles, who built a monster out of a school that had nothing that he funded. Basically himself funded all the scholarships, was feeding all the players,

was housing the players, helped them go to college. He's at Charlotte now. He's trying to resurrect that program and bring it into the American Athletic Conference. He's got a bunch of guys that he coached in high school coming with him. It is going to be one of the most fascinating stories in college football this year. So let's hear from Biff Poggi, his cutoff sleeves, and his cigar.

We're joined now by Charlotte 49ers head coach Biff Poggi, and I'm so glad that this is how we're getting him. We're getting him cigar break after practice, before meetings. The sleeves are off. The V-neck is deep. Coach, how are we doing? Hey, Andy. How how you doing man so i i have i don't even know where to start with you because you fascinate me completely uh because i i go back to a career of you know you you play football at pit you're gonna be a

coach you're gonna be a teacher your father-in-law pulls you aside and said, how are you going to take care of my daughter and that baby that you have coming? I guess we can start there because that's where the renaissance man piece of you starts. You went into business with your father-in-law. You end up running a hedge fund. How tough was the pull of the coaching you had to leave behind to do that? You know, it was hard. I mean, football was a huge part of my life as a kid and a young adult. And then, you know, my father-in-law was a realist, you know, and a very smart man, MIT Sloan fellow in business. And, of course, you know, he liked me, but he loved his daughter and his grandkids.

It was like, okay, buddy, how are we going to get this done? So, you know, he approached me in a way that was interesting. And then he, you know, he really, it clicked for me. I was never a great student at all. I was a terrible student, as a matter of fact, and never had much math. I'm a horrible math student. But somehow the art and the science of investing just clicked for me. And so 37 years later, here we are.

But you were coaching. You know, once you got that rolling, you started coaching, went to your alma mater, Gilman, built the St. Francis Academy. When did you realize, I need to be back in football, I need to be around a team? Well, I knew that i never stopped coaching right coaching high school was great because you show up at two o'clock and you leave at five and you know it's great uh but you know once my kids grew up and moved out of the house went to college uh you know uh my old friend jim Harbaugh called me and said will you come up and help and I said yes

and I went there in 2016 our Orange Bowl year my son was a really good player there Henry yeah old Henry and then at the end of the 16 season I said Jim you know

Baltimore's a mess the city of baltimore that's where i'm from baltimore's a mess and there's a school there that i think i can my wife and i really believe we can help it was getting ready to close and uh and so we went to saint francis it was kind of a comprehensive thing at saint francis So it was scholarships for kids. It was housing. It was hiring math teachers and science teachers and English teachers. It was study hall. It was tutors. It was very comprehensive. And so we did that as a way to help a community that we grew up in, that I grew up in, but also to help kids that just really didn't have, you know, came from tough backgrounds. And so I was there four years.

It was incredibly rewarding. COVID hit. You know, Michigan kind of had a tough 2020 year. Jim and I talk all the time anyway, like we do now. And Jim said to me, you know, would you consider coming back? And I said, yes, but only if I can, you know, make sure St. Francis is taken care of. St. Francis got taken care of, and I went back to Michigan for 21 and 22. And that whole time, by the way, you know, I was involved with my fund except in 16, 21 and 22.

And of course, but I have I have other people running it now. It's ex-players running it, right? Guys who played for you. Former players. Yeah. Not bad. I mean, that's the thing. It seems like every time you talk about what your team can do for someone, you're talking in terms of 20 years from now. And you've got so much proof of concept with that. How much does it help you when you're recruiting players now? Well, I call our recruiting pitch when kids and their parents come in, I call it the anti-recruiting pitch.

I say because my job is to try to get you not to want to come here. Because what I tell them is, in my opinion, not all, obviously, but many football coaches are great prevaricators. They are great at looking at a kid and his family and saying, okay, about 15 seconds, okay, this is what this kid wants to hear and is what his parent or parents want to hear. And they tell you that whether it's true or not. And I'm not going to do that.

And so what I tell them is I'm going to tell you what I think you need to hear. And so we talk about, we don't even talk about football and recruiting pitch. We start with our vision and the vision page has nothing to do with football. Our vision is is to create men of empathy and faith who will become good fathers, sons, husbands, and members of the community to serve those who are left fortunate. That's why we're doing it. In a few words, we call it building men for others. And, you know, what does that involve? It involves you've got to go to school you got to

go to class you got to get an education and not some education it's some absurd degree that is not commercial so we have a mandatory we put in a really cool really cool mandatory um uh financial literacy curriculum 13 weeks they have to take it. It's mandatory. They absolutely love it. And then coupled with that, Charlotte's an unbelievable city for business. The banking capital, really, of the country. More Fortune 500 and 1,000 companies are moving to Charlotte

because all the financing is here. It's a vibrant, vibrant city. And we went around and met a bunch of old friends that we did business with over the years and new friends that we're making. And they do an eight week internship after that financial literacy program. They go down, put their suits on, go downtown and and, you know, you get paid to do it. It's it's a you get a thousand dollars a week for eight weeks. I give them that time to

do it instead of doing football because I think it's important for their lives. And the other thing in recruiting we tell them is this. There's only two types of coaches. There's transactional coaches and there's transformational coaches. Transactional coaches care about their next contract, the next bigger job, the TV show, how many wins they have. Transformational coaches are in it for the kids.

And the nice thing about me being a little older and also, you know, having had success in business, I don't care about the next contract. I'm not in it for that. So I'm in it for them. I imagine in 19 years at Gilman and then the four at St. Francis where you had college coaches coming in and out all the time, you learned quite a bit about what it takes to be a good college recruiter and what not to do.

What are the biggest lessons you took from dealing with coaches over the years? Well, that's a really good question, Andy. I learned a lot about what not to do. I also have four sons that played Division I college football. And so I sat in the seat the parents sit in. And some of the stories are so fantastic. They're like the Harry Potter series are so enthralling. They're like the Harry Potter series. They're so enthralling. They're so fantastic.

And what I learned is this. When you approach a kid who comes into your building, remember this. You are recruiting and coaching a mother's son. And what that means is this. That's the most precious thing in the world to that mother. And I have a wife, and we had those four boys. And, you know, I know what it meant to her. And I know how disappointed she was when we found out people weren't, you know, when their Pinocchio noses were growing.

So the major thing is always tell the truth. So you get to Michigan and Jim Harbaugh said one of the most important things you did there was you could tell him the truth and weren't worried about how he was going to react, weren't worried about your job. What was some of the first pieces of advice you gave him when you got in there? Well, first of all, Jim is a very unique person. Jim is really intelligent. Jim happens to be a football coach. He loves football.

But Jim could be anything, right? He could be a physician. He could run a hedge fund. He's really smart. And it's a very rare characteristic to have someone who says to you, I want you to tell me what you perceive to be the truth. And so Jim was open to it. And the things that we talked about, I don't want to divulge those because they were very personal. But, you know, he took my advice, not all the time, but a lot of the time.

And that just made us, everybody in the building made me better, made him better, made our assistants better, made our players better. And so, you know, I think that's a very important person to have on your staff because what happens in college games, what happens in college, excuse me, in college, can you all move over there, please? Hey, Lou, can you guys move down that side? What happens in college football buildings is the coach, the head coach, is like the king. He's like Charles III.

He walks around and everybody genuflects. Ex-European history teacher here. Exactly right. Yeah, right? And so genuflects, and they don't even call him by their name. They call him coach. And everybody in the building says, well, coach, right. And so, you know, Genuflex, and they don't even call him, you know, by their name. They call him Coach. And everybody in the building says, well, Coach said this. Well, what coach?

Well, it's always the head coach. And so, you know, Jim was not like that. I don't believe in running it that way. And so, you know, we had a really good culture there at Michigan, and we're putting the same culture here at Charlotte. Who's your Biff Pogey? Good question. I'm going to keep my cigar to it.

No, no problem. It's John Jacobson. John is our assistant head coach. John is a friend of mine. I've known John 46 years. We were in high school together at Gilman. And John was a very successful hedge fund investor. So we have a lot in common.

And as a matter of fact, just this very day, John said to me on the practice field, he said, I want to talk to you. He talked to you privately in your office. And he came up, and it was a really hard conversation and a great conversation. And, and he was right. He was absolutely right. So, you know, that's my guy right there. So you've got a couple of guys who played for you at St. Francis, a Demond Clowney, a big wall, big defensive tackle, Jonathan Wallace. And you've flipped this roster pretty quickly. What were you looking for when you were looking for new players?

Because you're going into a new conference. This is going to the American Conference, a completely different era of Charlotte football starting now. Yeah, we have 24 St. Francis kids. Wow. And we have 28 kids out of the portal as that's 52 and we kept 52 now that was not by design but that's just how it worked out with and um uh so can you see me still am i we've lost you i can hear you but i can't see you there i think there you're back you're good yep um and what i was looking for in the portal were

same thing i was looking for when i hired my coaches i wanted good men and good kids and then we will we want to find that first and then we'll figure out about who's a good player and that kind of stuff. So I do want to thank you for something you said in your introductory press conference. You outlined your defense where you said, we're going to stop the run. When we make you one-dimensional and make you throw, we're going to light you up. I appreciate you explaining somewhat of what the defense will look like without saying we're going to be multiple, because we know it's not completely a state secret. But you've imported basically the Ravens and Michigan's defense here.

How is that going with Ryan Osborne at D.C.? He's brilliant. He's young. He works like a wild man. He works so hard. And the kids love him. I mean, you know, we had Mozzie Smith here, came to work with Oz. We had, Jesus, Aidan Hutchinson came down.

Oh, wow. Yeah, players that play for him love him. And they love him because he makes them better. He's honest with them, and he's completely fair with them. So our defense right now is, I've got to tell you, is elite. It is. You know, I stand behind the offense because I don't want to get run over. And it is just so disconcerting because there's no leverage on the defense.

They're everywhere. They come from every place. You can't run the ball on them. It is like you're an offensive coach. It will drive you to start drinking heavily. Well, I cannot wait to see it. Now, I've got to ask you because you obviously have been very successful in everything you've ever tried.

You're a lot of steps ahead of most of us. Not everything. I haven't been successful in losing all the weight I want to lose. I lost about 60 two years ago. So if you need a calorie count, buddy, just text me. Good for you.

I got a few people who text me now like, what's this spoonful of peanut butter? How many do i put in i totally love it you gotta put them all in and guilt yourself into not eating so but uh i this this press conference the the american athletic conference media days for you you you don't get any more questions and you say that's it three questions maybe that's because you have us ranked last that's all what you think of us so that that we get that message thank you and you say that's it three questions now what you did after that got Charlotte football more attention than if you'd had five more questions asked. Were you thinking that in the moment,

or were you just pissed that you only got three questions? I plead the fifth. It was both. I was furious about the three questions. But that's galvanized our football team. Hey, look, believe it or not, you know, we can read. And we've seen all the preseason predictions and, you know, the Vegas line of two games and all that nonsense.

And that just galvanized it. That was the fire in the furnace that made us pure and i gotta tell you something i've been a lot of places i've been i've been in god i don't even how i can't do the math but 45 uh opening you know training camps for college either as a player or a coach um or or a high school coach i've never seen anything like this this is really cool and i don't know how you predict a conference that has this many new members anyway so it seems to be a bit of a fool's errand, but I am glad it's given you guys some motivation. All right.

All right. Yeah, they are, I would say this, they're beautiful, wonderful kids off the field. I love them to death. I really do. I care so deeply about them. But on the field, as I said, I mean, they are bad company. I mean, they are just so grumpy. It is amazing.

So I love it. Well, Biff, thank you so much cannot wait to see them actually play on a game day so uh it's gonna be fun yeah thank you take care bye-bye didn't even put out the cigar that was amazing amazing. I will do a Biff Poggi interview every day if possible. We may have a lot more Charlotte updates on this show because I cannot wait to see what that guy does. It is so exciting. And he's just he's different. I appreciate different. I appreciate when you come from a different place and a different background. And it's true that when he got to Michigan the second time around, what Jim Harbaugh asked him to do was kind of what you'd be asked to do as a turnaround consultant in the corporate world. Go find our weak points. Figure out what we need to do. And one of the things that he wound up doing was telling Jim Harbaugh,

hey, have a lighter hand with the offense. You know, you don't have to decide everything right now. You don't have to do every single thing. Be more of a CEO. And it's worked. And the culture they have at Michigan is fantastic now. And they've won two big 10 titles in a row so Biff Poggey is going to bring that to Charlotte and if you haven't watched the HBO

documentary The Price of Winning which is about his St. Francis team you should watch that it's four episodes it was it's just fascinating you see a lot of uh Blake Corum is on that team the Michigan running back and then he mentioned he's got over 20 guys from that program that, that basically transferred to come play for him. You know, there were some guys who signed with power five schools that maybe didn't find the starring role they wanted there. And then other guys who've kind of bounced around. So I, it is a new roster. So I don't, again, the,

the picking of the American conference and how it's going to all play out. I have no idea. And I don't think anybody else does either because the memberships changed so much. I mean, you can, you can probably feel like Tulane should feel fairly comfortable being picked to win. They won it last year. They brought a lot of guys back, but the new teams coming in, I mean, and you got, but the new team's coming in. I mean, and you got Trent Dilfer at UAB coming in there too. So that's going to be a really fascinating story to follow along, see how that goes.

I think Biff Poggi knows what he's doing, though. He's been very successful, again, at almost everything he's done. So watch that documentary if you hadn't. And speaking of documentaries, the big news in documentary world college football is Netflix has a Johnny football documentary on. I know a bunch of you have already seen it. I'm sure some of you haven't seen it yet.

Don't worry. Even if you haven't seen it, this interview with Billy Lucci is not going to spoil too much for you. But I do urge everybody to watch it. If you if you enjoyed watching Johnny football play in college, or you just enjoyed the circus around him, or even enjoyed watching him flame out in the NFL, you will learn a lot about the guy and about what was going on behind the scenes. It was very open. Johnny was very open. His former agent, Eric Burkhart, was very open.

Uncle Nate, who was Johnny's friend slash handler slash get it done guy, he was very open. Johnny's parents, Johnny's sister. And this guy, Billy Lucci from techsags.com, big time character in the Johnny football documentary. Billy joined us to talk about making that documentary about what Johnny thought about it and what they left out of it. If you're a college football fan,

you have probably already watched the Johnny Manziel documentary on Netflix, or you're about to watch it. We're joined now by one of the stars of that documentary, Billy Lucci from tech sags who the glow up of the old clips of you versus you in your office in that doc i mean you turned into like a country music singer songwriter before our very eyes like fine wine andy as i like to say i don't know i mean nobody ever told me I look like that. And I'm sure from now I'll look back at what I look like in that documentary and go, damn it. What was I

doing? But I'll take that versus the other one. I have a really close friend of mine. And, uh, I know the last time I sat down with you, I was actually at her wedding and in Colorado and she's also my stylist. And I know right now I'm just basic, but I do when I need her. She's great. And she's good enough that I drive to Dallas every couple weeks to go buy clothes. And so she was messing with me about it. Just how that was pre Ashley styling me. And then that was after the fact.

And, you know, big shouts to Ashley. If you're in the area and you need you need styling, that's that's where you go. So let's let's talk about this documentary, because I was shocked. Now, you've always been an open book. You always tell great stories. But I was shocked at how open Johnny was, Uncle Nate was, Eric Burkhart, the agent who wound up firing Johnny. Like, they just open book on this thing.

Yeah. I would have told you that Nate would have been good. I would have told you that Johnny, when he wants to open up, there are a few people that will tell a story like Johnny, and he's just got so many of them that are real. He did more and he's done more in the last 10 years in terms of salacious, drop your jaw drops on a story then probably most people you know 10 people added up in a lifetime would do um Burkhart surprised me and pleasant surprise made me laugh I've always loved EB I've known him since you know he was

kind of first getting into the game I I sat there and felt for him when he was dealing with the circus that was Johnny um and I thought he did a good job of kind of putting that into words in the doc and and yeah he had a glow up too by the way you see from when he was at tech with Cliff and and then uh now they're with you know Rock Nation and Jay-Z and he's got that jacket on and oh yeah oh yeah if i was country singer you know burkhart was like some you know pop guy oh yeah he's he's a pop star but so you had told me the story of johnny's private workout with the browns years ago and to hear that fleshed out by burkhart because you you lived it from the state of getting those frantic calls from Johnny in the middle of the night, like it's spring break, there's no receivers here,

I don't have cleats, all of that. And then hearing Burkhart talk about catching passes in a private workout for an NFL team, And that NFL team still Drafted his guy in the first round That's the deal and I saw what they Were doing so they had to cut my I had the punchline To bring it all together which was

Yeah and they still drafted him In classic Cleveland Browns Fashion and that In a nutshell if you say Well what happened in Cleveland and go, this guy at that time in his life got drafted by that franchise. Boom. Just like everyone feared, you know, I was hoping against hope, but the Cleveland Browns in that state and hell,

I don't know, maybe their current state and, and, and Johnny Manziel and his state in 2013 and it was a match that never should happen just based off of that that workout and i don't know how much of it got glossed over and i think he was told me the other day he was like i wish he was like i want to tell that version of the story because they were on the lake in austin and they were supposed to they were told you can't leave austin after 2 30 so coming from austin to college station p.m have like some lead time that probably meant he was meeting with them no later than six if not five and the browns flew in they were at a nice country club private room dinner

or or an early dinner and he said they were on the lake and looked at the the phone and it was 4 30 and they had to basically wrangle and scramble like you and i would do to get an uber and get a private jet because that hour and 45 minute drive hour and a half drive could not take an hour and a half wait they took a private jet from austin to college station all their buddies that had 80 miles apart like oil and gas buddies from west texas that i think they were on the lake with they flew it to college station so it would only take you know 15 20 minutes versus an hour and a half and so he goes to the dinner with the browns and then when i so calls me like three four times it's a friday night it's easter weekend no one's in town like i'm i'm in bed watching tv and they're

wrapping up dinner and i don't answer i don't answer i don't answer then he calls or a girl calls that was at the dinner with him i answer and it's him on the other line he's like why won't you i'm like oh god and then i realize what's going on i go okay i'm gonna go over there little do i know burkhart is there uh you know and and from there we tried to kind of make sure everything went through, and that's when about 1 in the morning, you know, we're in a big suite and I'm sleeping on the couch. He comes out of the room and goes, hey, you know, we need to call. It was the A&M equipment manager.

I said, 1 a.m., dude, on Easter weekend. I don't have – we don't have footballs i don't have shorts i just have these and they were like these like i don't even know what he was wearing i don't have shorts i don't have cleats luckily you know the equipment manager the assistant equipment manager i should give him a shout out brandon moreau drove left his woke up in the middle of the night left his wife and kids drove over there laid all the stuff out for him for this like 7 a.m saturday morning workout and then they get there and oh by the way there's no receivers oh my god and they still drafted him you just encapsulated the clevelands. If you saw the... I didn't get to see it.

If you saw it pictured, those three, Burkhart, his lawyer, Brad, and his manager, Gareth, who's at the time barely older than Johnny. He just got done at TCU. He's probably like 20... It's the first time somebody named Gareth has ever caught passes

for NFL scouts. Gareth, Brad, and Eric, can you all go out there and catch passes for nfl scouts gareth brad and eric can y'all go out there and catch passes for into this pro day workout and uh i think they were just doing like the tops of the routes you know and they were just running 10 feet and catching them and you know and it was like the swing passes to the backs and johnny said he killed it like i said in the documentary i called i think it was maybe Eric, maybe it was Brad. I called one of them and said, how'd it go? And they said, you know, it was a shit show.

It was awful. And Johnny's just on his way back to the lake. I killed it. And they said that. And I'm like, well, the Browns won't draft him. And who knows? Maybe they would have drafted him with the ninth pick instead of but remember they traded up to 22 to get him that that just blows my mind when you think about

andy the thing that people i and i i don't know how documented it is it might be i might be saying something everybody knows but you know there was a team at the time good team they weren't great and and they had a really good veteran quarterback he wasn't probably a top 10 but he was really good by the name of alex smith coached by andy reed and by all accounts and you could could ask EB that and on down, we talked about it. I guess it didn't make the – but, you know, Eric Burkhart – or not, Andy Reid and the Chiefs, I think they were picking next.

If they weren't, it was like two picks. Now, would they have pulled the trigger? I don't know. But by every account, they were going to draft him in that spot. So the Kansas City Chiefs would have drafted Johnny, allegedly, and it's on enough authority that I do believe that was the case. And I know the Chiefs came back. They still would have drafted Mahomes because he would have flamed out

by that point. True. But they also came back a second time, I think, for Johnny and were interested, and maybe that would have kept them from drafting. I don't know. But you'd laugh and you'd go, okay, the Pat Mahomes thing, there's some tie-ins to Johnny there. And one of them was that.

But the other one is this. And I say timing was everything with Johnny. The timing at A&M. You were there for it. Cliff, and you're the one that said Johnny was a witch. At the time when I was doing the doc, I didn't know. Yeah, I made the documentary. I was shocked

when I saw that. At the time, I didn't know if I could drop names or anything, and I'm like, I don't want to throw staples into it. As I watched it the other night, I was like, why did I give? But that was your quote, was I looked at you, and you like, why did I give – but that was your quote was I look at you and you go, what did he say to you? And I told him what happened.

He'd go, that dude's a damn witch. But it – the timing of A&M couldn't have been more perfect. Aggies were desperate to win. I went into it too. They were leaving the SEC – or Big 12. It was this 100-year decision. They were breaking away from Texas. For all the money they were spending and the limb they were going out on,

the last thing they wanted to do was be a laughingstock. You knew that. We talked about it a lot with you in our SEC Ready documentary. There was so much pressure, and here's this guy, Johnny Manziel. The timing was perfect for A&M. That offense was perfect for the SEC at that time. He was the perfect trigger man. Kingsbury was the perfect play caller, the perfect guy for Johnny.

Sumlin had that swagger. It was the only way it could have worked for Johnny and A&M and Sumlin and Cliff and everyone else. The timing couldn't have been worse. Think about how much money got made when you said how much money got made by other people a and m in terms of donations kevin sumlin cliff kingsbury who got his first head coaching job out of it that he then parlayed into an nfl head coaching job yeah i mean it is it's crazy what kind kind of revenue generator Johnny was in those two years?

I mean, I would say, you know, more so than Cam Newton, more so than Tim T, but you know, like everybody argues who's the Joe Burrow, but you know, like those guys had better endings to the, you know, Joe Burrow. Yeah. But, you know, like those guys had better endings to the, you know, they won national titles. Cam Newton's one year was incredible. Burrow's one year might have been the best. Their schools didn't need that thing to happen right then, and A&M did.

Yeah. And just the money, it would go Johnny and everybody else. When you talk about money generated, and it was. It was just this, it was really just this explosion that no one expected. Obviously, he didn't expect it. A&M didn't expect it. I did get one person texting me, I thought A&M was painted in a bad light. No one else really felt that way.

But their thing was, we put up the guard rails billy you knew what the guard rails were and my thought is this yes it was 70 minutes they could have gone into the whole a and m side of it and and it would have said i didn't think a and m came out sounding bad at all i think it was understood that like hey could everyone have done better could johnny could you know paul sumlin cliff the machine um even me as a friend is there some way i could i don't know we all could have everyone the whole thing you know it's like you looked up and he was out the door and was like man that was fun and then you go uh, you know, like, and I've done that for the last 10 years. Like, you know, and that's why we've remained so close. It's like, you know, I,

that dude is like, you know, this is like a little brother to me. Um, but my thing is the guardrails for sure. They were put up. And if people were in charge of guardrails and they didn't, and the guardrails didn't work then there's blame to be shared there too but everyone try i will say like it all the people involved on the a&m side they they i do believe they tried their best and i think when you watch the documentary you get a i think it's not like an ant i don't think anything about it was anti-a&m at all i think you get this vibe of like man that must have been incredibly challenging for everyone but no one more so and he did self-sabotage i mean

johnny takes he i think he takes more of the blame even than he should but he did you know if it would have been just not a personality like johnny none of that would have happened and it would have been more like the storyline would have been, man, that guy too bad he wasn't there for NIL. And it would have been as simple as that. Right. Yeah. Well, the thing for, I believe Johnny says this in the doc, correct me if I'm wrong, but he says basically it would not have mattered which NFL team drafted him.

He was not ready to be an NFL quarterback at that time. And I agree with that because you look at how he came out and the way he operated at Texas A&M was fine for that moment, but would never work in the NFL. Like no quarterback will ever succeed in the NFL handling it that way. You know, and everyone asks, man, what about NIL? What about it? I think the biggest thing about NIL with Johnny Manziel

is he would have stayed one more year. A&M would have stayed him God knows what. He might have been able to make as much as he'd make as a first-round draft pick. And he might have, yeah, you're probably right. And he might have said, you know what? Four losses this year. We went out losing to LSU and, LSU and I didn't play.

I didn't play the way, you know, like he could have been a fully had to have one more year and go, this is my last shot. I want to be like a number one pick or the first quarterback picked, or I want to, you know, get millions upon million, you know, you know, I want to sign all those things. I think could have been like a care or it could have just been more of the same. I want to sign. All those things, I think, could have been like a character, or it could have just been more of the same. We'll never know. It would have, I think, given him a chance, and I think

he would have gone down as quite possibly the best college football player ever. Remember all that stuff that year, Andy? NCAA. In the NIL era, none of that happens. And he was a top five Heisman finalist. The business he and Uncle Nate were running is perfectly allowed now.

Right? It's crazy. And you could do that with no problems. Yeah, and with all that drama and all that partying and the craziness and the distraction and he was a Heisman finalist and I think against Bama and Auburn who played for the title that year I think he had like nine I think definitely over 800 if not closer to 900 yards of offense and about seven or eight touchdowns I mean it's I was at that bama game you know where mike evans was

was just going off and my another year would have been really interesting him at him in college in 2014 because remember that's when alabama started blake simms at quarterback uh auburn and old miss and mississippi state were really really good that would have been a crazy SEC West, if you think about it. It would have. And so, you know, it would have. And then the other thing is he probably wouldn't have got drafted by the Browns. Give him a little more shot. I always thought Johnny needed to go to a team, the Saints,

with Brady and Sean Payton. The Patriots with Brady and Belichick. The Chiefs with Alex Smith and Andy Reid. Somewhere where he knew he wasn't going to play, but also a real franchise and organization where he just felt this real desire that I don't want to disappoint this head coach. I can't sit in a meeting room with Drew Brees and Tom Brady.

I can't not work in front of these guys. I can't come in here hungry. Because he is like that. If he would have been in the right situation, even I think at that age, not to say it would have worked, but it would have been a million times better. My other point, though, you look at the league now. You look over there you know who won the super bowl two years ago with the los angeles rams as a head coach um you look at mcveigh you look at cliff kingsbury as a head coach in the nfl or he was um

patrick mahomes and the way he plays baker mayfield johnny wilson out of byu i believe said he you know grew up watching these guys my home kyle maybe not the best set of examples except for patrick this is true but kyler's been to pro bowls bakers you know one playoff games my point is you're so right though but my point is the style of play in quarterbacks and coaches. Is where the default is moving to in the NFL. Yeah, and it came right after him. Not to say that he would have had to have been clean and committed. You're right.

No quarterback. I'm just not sure. It's interesting hearing from his sister, who always seemed to be kind of a very level-headed person in his life when she says even now i don't know if he's going to be able to ever live a normal life like that part made me very sad to hear but it also makes me wonder if it ever would have worked out as a football player maybe just yeah he wasn't destined to be a good nfl. There's too much that goes into the preparation. And it did.

Like he said in the doc, it came easy to him, college football, which very few people can ever say that to achieve that level of success, to say it came easy to me. He was as talented as anyone I've seen come out of Texas. The Adrian Petersons, the Roy Williams, the Vince Youngs, and that's at the very top of the list. Des Bryant, there's so many. I don't even know where to begin. You've got so many NFL quarterbacks.

Matt Stafford, Drew Brees, Nick Foles. I'm naming Super Bowl quarterbacks here. Jalen Hurts. I just named know yeah super bowl quarterbacks here uh jalen hurts i just named like four super bowl but johnny from a football talent he doesn't have the arm he doesn't throw like matt stat you know there you go up and down but from a football talent that dude was there with like peterson and vince and but he you know he was under six foot He wasn't built for it like some of those guys we mentioned were. But more than anything, yeah, you look at all those guys I named, and the majority of them have famous, famous work ethics.

And look, you mentioned Kyler Murray earlier. That would be one of the guys who I would put up there right alongside Johnny and Vince. Maybe even better. Kyler may be the most would be one of the guys who I would put up there right alongside Johnny and Vince. Maybe even better. Kyler may be the most athletically gifted of all of these people. Never lost. And that skill set, and he did. He did pattern a lot after Johnny and watched him

and came to A&M after him and talked to Johnny, I think, on the day he committed. But, again, people are questioning there in Arizona, the work ethic and things like that. And it's just, you know, and I think with Johnny and Kyler guys like that, when, when you're giving up something in, in Kyler's case, it's pretty much simply size kind of the same with Johnny. You have to make up for it. Um, you have to make up for it somehow.

And, and I know in Johnny's case, he wasn't ready to put in what it would have taken to make up for it somehow and and i know in johnny's case he wasn't ready to put in what it would have taken to make up for it so how do you how do you think johnny feels post-doc and now that everybody's seen it feels like he was pretty open how did he feel about it about the documentary he feels we talked he feels great he was really he was really i think he was really worried how it was going to come out and he didn't watch it until very recently like i think at one point he had asked me if i'd seen it but i said no i mean have you he said no i said what you know and he was i think he was just worried what how it was going to come out from other people's sides

because he didn't bother to find out what anybody else said he didn't go around asking so he didn't know what Aaron said or what Uncle Nate said or any of that he never never asked me anything he didn't ask me you know it's one thing to say hey did you say anything crazy it's gonna make me look but I'm like he didn't say any of that he didn't ask me what did they ask you he had no interest he just he knew he sat down with him he knew what he said he was comfortable with that but I think he knew what he said he was comfortable with that but I think he knew that he kind of you know bared his soul a little bit and so I think he was like I wonder how that's going to be received I don't think he felt like he was going to go out there and burn anybody he wasn't worried about that I think he was more like how am I going to

be received which all of us would be that way and and then I think he was kind of like, man, I don't know what everybody else will say, you know, in terms of he didn't want to make A&M look bad. He didn't want to make his family look bad or himself, you know, or himself. He didn't really care about. He didn't seem he cared about making himself look bad. Yeah. And he didn't. And, and, and that was, I think what he was like, like, man, I wonder how I'm going to be perceived you know just like

you or i or anyone would be if you just said hey i'm just gonna sit in front of a camera and tell all to the world um good bad and the ugly but afterwards you know i think he's really i think for the first time and in a long time i think there's like uh and i hope he can capitalize on it there's like a positive momentum to him and there's always been popularity and there's always been intrigue and interest but i think now there's like a positive momentum to him and his in his brand and i know he you know he like you said sometimes he said things that made him come off bad he knew it you know he was, yeah, this is what it was. But I think when that thing ends, I think he realizes he's got support.

The needle is all the way on tilt again, and people understand him, I think, a little more. And now if he does the right things from a business standpoint and makes the right moves, I think he could really capitalize on it. And I've got multiple ways I think he should. And I think number one of them is to go speak. I see A&M and Alabama and Clemson and Ohio State, everybody pays these guests, Rice, you know, whoever.

They pay these speakers to come in and talk to the kids. Who better to have an impact than a – and unfortunately, this would have been out three months ago. You've seen his Heisman speech. You saw him on the dock. You know, kids in those things, they pull their hoodies on after practice and they're doing this half the time. And for Johnny to go in there and say, hey, that was me.

They'd be paying attention, for sure. I didn't listen to Chris Heron or whatever his name was. Yeah, Chris Heron, he came in and did all those. Yeah, I didn't listen to Chris Heron when he told me how he was on the street corner buying drugs before Celtics games. I didn't listen to that.on when he told me how he was on the street corner buying drugs before Celtics games. I didn't listen to that. I was looking at my phone. I was worried about whatever girl I was dating at the time.

And now I was where you are then, and I'm where I am now. So hear me out. You know, like who can have a more powerful message, I think, in 2023 or even next summer, 2024, to kids that are in college football than Johnny Football, and especially in the wake of this doc. And you know how much those guys are paid that are good. And then you go into the whole other one where you speak at corporate events. So you just go do two speeches, and he would kill them, and then do that.

And, man, I mean, that's just one of about 100 little side things I think he could do. I think he could do TV, like, you know, at a desk, I think. So, anyway, he just needs to be in a place where he just commits and says, okay, let's do this. I think it's time for him. Got to show up. That's the only thing.

That is. Billy Lucci, you showed up. The Netflix famous Billy Lucci from Tex-Ags. Thanks so much. Still disappointed I didn't say. And the one and only Andy Staples

turns to me and says... I am okay with it because I knew it was me. That is Billy Luc lucci those are crazy stories about johnny manziel that were in the documentary some of them and then the behind the scenes of some of the documentary stuff like getting a private jet from austin to college station which are 100 miles apart. 100 miles apart. He needed to get a private jet or he was going to miss a dinner with the Browns. And that would have kept him from getting drafted in the first round. It's craziness.

Craziness. That's like, by the way, like it's eight minute flight. It's nothing. But go watch the doc if you haven't already seen it. It is a really interesting portal into the mind of Johnny Manziel. And you get a lot of just backstage drama from everything that was happening. And the other side of some stories that were big in 2013, 2012 that maybe didn't realize. For the extra point tonight, though, there's NFL preseason on our televisions right now.

The Texans are playing the Patriots right now. And as a college football fan, I really do enjoy NFL preseason games because sometimes it's maybe the last chance I'm going to get to see a guy I love playing in college because he might be in a camp this year, he might get cut, and we might not see him play football again. But also, seeing the NFL people discover the guys that we love. You're seeing Trace McSorley on the screen now. He is currently playing for the Patriots.

He's their quarterback at the moment. Tank Dell tonight. The NFL people now being introduced to Tank Dell. We watched him at Houston and loved him. Used to see him catching touchdown passes from Clayton Toon. Well, tonight we saw Tank Dell make a circus catch for a touchdown, and now all the NFL people are buzzing. We already knew about him.

He was ours first. We knew him when he was playing small coffee shops. But this is one of my favorite parts of the NFL preseason, just seeing these guys show what they can do to a different audience, to a group that maybe hasn't seen them do it yet. And Tank Dell, you're going to be the breakout. Everybody will be talking about you on Friday morning. We will be talking. But on Sunday night, we'll be back.

Sonny Dykes from TCU will be our guest. We'll talk to you later.