Andy & Ari On3 - Could the SEC get SHUT OUT of the Heisman race? | Which QB has helped his draft stock the most?

Episode Date: October 30, 2024

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We're a whole new way to nug. It's got to be Wendy's at participating U S Wendy's We're on our way to Nug. It's got to be Wendy's at participating U.S. Wendy's. Welcome to Andy and Ari on three. It is a Wendy's saucy take Wednesday. Ari is bringing the sauce today and I hope that he has brought some extra sauce. I had one fairly saucy take and it came true last week where two undefeated teams did go down Not the two I thought one of the ones I thought but I'll take it Ari. How we doing you've been in the kitchen

Yes, I have been in the kitchen. I didn't drop a knife on my foot this morning either. Thank God No, these are looking up. I'm in my Sabrina carpenter era I don't know if you I'm sure you have been hurtinging that a lot. 13 year old daughter Ari. I know every Sabrina Carpenter song. Let me tell you something. I gotta tell you because I just discovered the record last night. Like I listened to it on my own volition because I'm trying to find things to play for my daughter in the car and that entire record is electric. Like I'm like who's the cute

boy with the white jacket and the thick accent? Have you heard the country song? She's got a country song called Slim Pickens. I'll give it a try. I was just doing the record so far. She won my heart by making fun of the guy because he doesn't know the difference between there, there and there. Oh, as in T-H-E-R-T-H-E-R-E and T-H-E-Y apostrophe R-E.

She had me right there. Andy, I'm 12 hours into this. Purely electric stuff, like I'm into it. And I'm a rapper since- And that has been your 13 year old girl record review from Ari Wasserman. Yeah, by the way, for adults too, cause I'm not listening to it for my child,

I'm listening to it for me. Really into it. But yeah, I have some saucy takes. I have one that I'm a listening to it for my child. I'm listening to it for me. Really into it. But yeah, I have some saucy takes. I have one that I'm a little bit nervous. We'll go off the rails a little bit. So I'm gonna try to keep us on track. River helped talk me through it. And yeah, I'm excited for the show today.

So let's get into it. Let's do it. All right, give me saucy take number one. Okay, let's just go at it right now from the top because we need to, you know, plot some time on this. I think that the idea that the 12 team playoff will allow us to settle it on the field is actually a fallacy. Like I think that there's this idea that because there are more teams getting in that we're going to be more satisfied with the results at the end of the year. And that might be true to a certain extent. But when you think about how hard it was to get into the four-team playoff, the excellence that it demanded to get into that four-team situation, there are a hell of a lot more teams, especially this season, that fall into tier B than the five or

six extra that we're going to get. And I think there are going to be a lot of teams that have a real claim to get in at the end of the year that don't. And I'm not saying that I will feel the same empathy towards those teams that I would like Florida State a year ago, but like there are a lot of scenarios. We are very far along into the season where the teams at the end of the year who are left out are going to have a real gripe and a people in the committee room are going to have to make the decisions of who goes and who doesn't. And there are going to be decisions made by people that are replacing games. And I think that we are going to find that out in a really big way this year. I was on Kings of the North with Doug and Bill last night and it really hit me. Doug did a

good job of driving at home, but it's true because they're worried Southern teams are going to get in over Northern teams and no no. Oh no no no no. I think that we both did or all three of us did a bracket and I think there was a collection of five to seven teams that were out in at least one of our brackets with very similar results. Because if you look at what's left in the season, there's not I mean, it's college football. Upsets will certainly happen. But there's not a lot of you watch college football in November before. Yeah, no, I know. And it's like it's possible that, you know, everybody loses and there's no problem.

But if you look at the way that this season is shaping out the remaining schedules of the good teams that are there, like I'm envisioning situations like what happens if we have a 11 and one Indiana versus a 10 and two Alabama at the end of the year. You won't, they'll both get in. Okay, so we're gonna keep doing that. Okay, so they'll, we'll keep both getting into everybody and then we're gonna get there and it's not gonna get. In that particular case, they're gonna keep doing that. Okay, so they'll, we'll keep both getting into everybody

and then we're gonna get there and it's not gonna get. In that particular case, they're gonna both get in. I'm just telling. And then what happens with Tennessee in that scenario? Is Tennessee 10 and two? And Texas A&M. There's a lot of teams that are gonna be 10 and two this year, Andy, that's what I'm trying to tell you.

No, there's not, no, there's not. Again, have you watched November football before? Okay. So Ari, here's, let me explain to you what you what's happened to you. You were so hilariously wrong about the 12 team playoff and your complaints about it that you're trying to grasp it anything to say that it won't be better than what it was.

So much better. And here's the thing. This is team doesn't team doesn't get in, like at large number 12, that doesn't get in because somebody who's a conference champ got in at 12. I don't care. Their fans will care. I don't care.

They should have won more games. Yeah, I don't want to go down a path of better or worse. Cause I think that the games that we're getting. There's no, there's no arguing. Okay. That's great. I'm talking about what could happen. I'm not, I'm not, this isn't what that's about. I don't give a shit about that anymore.

Okay. Well, all right. Let me, let me help you with this one too. All the stuff you're talking about, the complaints, the angst, feature, not bug. Ari, we run a college football talk show. Do you know what that gives us? I don't know that I'm even talking about hearing what I'm saying. I'm saying that the notion that it will be settled on the field in this

playoff will be because you person who said. Teams 5 through 12 don't even deserve to be there. Yeah, if they don't even deserve to be there, it doesn't matter because the teams that deserve to be there will be in it and they win. They win if they don't. Well, they didn't. Maybe they weren't that good anyway.

Exactly how I feel. But if you have five to 16, if they beat the teams, if the 5 through 12 beat the one through four. Oh, well, I'm saying at the end of the year, there's a high likelihood that Texas will be a one lost team that Georgia will be a one lost team that Tennessee will be a two lost team that that Alabama will be a two loss team that Indiana will be a one loss team that a while state will be a one loss team that Penn State will be a one loss team that Oregon will be on there's going to be a lot of teams. How many teams did you name name them? How many teams just name? I think like seven or eight. I'm up. Yeah, count them up. Well, if we didn't get to the ACC and we did not get to the big 12 yet. I was just afraid that you were going to interrupt me when I was talking like I'm talking to you about the fact

that there's gonna be 15 teams potentially with two losses at the end of the year. And there are gonna be three or four teams that people in a boardroom are going to decide who gets in. And when they do that, there are gonna be three teams that feel like that they weren't settled on the field. Cause I think that we were anticipating. Then they should have won more games.

I know, but we're still going to be subjectively choosing between who goes in, who doesn't in a boardroom. And this is what's supposed to be avoided in this system. Well, are you just saying, so should we expand it to 16? That sounds like what you want. I'm sure that's what we're going to do. And then when we get there, there's going to be even more teams that are nine and three.

The problem, so what you just said makes my point. The further that you up, you expand it, you don't make it cleaner, you make it messier because the more you expand it, the more teams in the secondary tier you introduce because there's probably gonna be 59 and three teams. So if you go to 16 or 18, you're gonna have to choose between even more teams.

And the thing I think is really funny. See, I heard all these stupid arguments when Bill Hancock was getting paid to make them. And then he got paid to make different arguments because the commissioners wanted a bigger playoff. It's the cleaner- I don't wanna argue about whether it's better or worse. That's not the point I'm trying to make.

Well, cause it's better. Like there is no argument. I accept that it's better. Can we focus on what I'm trying to tell you now? Yeah, I'm telling you that doesn't matter. What you're worried about is the whole point of the thing. I'm telling you that the number one selling point of the 12-team playoff era is that it promotes better games.

And that when it promotes those games, and by the way, Clemson loses to Miami in the ACC Championship, playing that extra game that everybody's promoting is going to cost them a championship to the playoff, by the way, Clemson loses to Miami in the ACC Championship playing that extra game that everybody's promoting is in a cost them a champion to the to the playoff by the way When they played that Georgia game well in the game win the games, okay, but when you say Before the year that the 12 team playoff era is gonna promote scheduling better games because they don't matter as much you're wrong That's not true Clemson will prove it this. Playing Georgia cost them a trip to the playoff. What if Georgia loses to Tennessee? Then this is gonna get even worse.

Georgia's win against Clemson's gonna get them in. Cause what's gonna happen at the end of the year if Texas A&M is a two lost team, Alabama's a two lost team, Tennessee is a two lost team. Notre Dame is a one lost team. And Notre Dame is a one lost team. You have two undefeated teams playing

in the big 12 championship game. You have two unbeaten teams in the ACC playing. You have SMU there with one loss. There's going to be a lot of problems here. You again, you've, I know you can just say, I know you can just say that it's November and that everything's going to fall apart and you're probably going to be right. I'm just telling you right now, if you look at the schedules, we are pretty far along in the season. And there aren't a lot of like, it's like, go ahead and say that Miami is going to lose to Duke, like some people are saying. They're 21 and a half points away. I think Miami is going to be 12 and 0.

But I do think they were going to... Go look at the remaining schedules of the teams. There's not a lot of opportunity for the whole thing to just completely fall apart, is what I'm saying. Like at the end of the year, I think we're going to have five teams that have a legitimate chance to get in or case to get in that won't. And that makes it worse. Rocky Top Tom doesn't even understand his own argument. He's in the chat arguing that there should be no playoff. He says, the entire playoff system came from people crying that everyone should get a trophy.

No, the ball system is everyone crying at everyone should get a trophy. In the ball system, 30 teams lead with a trophy. Rocky Top Tom, you need to understand your own arguments before you try to make them. You know, and one thing that we have to do, and I know this got kind of heated, but like we both need to make a bracket and then we need to go through it. Because like going through the exercise last night with Bill and Doug, like open my eyes of like, holy crap, that you can make 10 different brackets. It all makes sense.

And like if they all and then if the season plays out similarly, you still get to different results. Like, like what? This was the entire point. That's why they did it. All I am saying is this is dirtier. It's not cleaner. And people thought it was gonna be cleaner.

It's gonna be dirtier. What people? Dumb people? They settle it on the field people, which one of which is you? The best teams will settle it on the field. Okay, so how is that different from last year? You could have had more teams settling it on the field.

Like I don't care. I want more good games. more teams settling in on the field. Like I don't care. I want more good games. There's a reason every other sports league in the world has a tournament of a similar size to decide a champion. Yeah, because this this year is actually kind of strange the results in college football. There are more teams that are in them. Like I thought coming into the year that a nine and three team could get in and like that's not going to happen now. There's only one nine and three team that can get in and they're not running the table. Well, I beg to differ. I think Florida's going. They live in the town where I live. But they'd have to run the table and they're

not doing that. But I thought we would be having a hard time finding teams, but there are a lot of really good like BYU's emergence, Iowa State's emergence. Good thing. Yeah, all good things. The only time in the 14 era that we had a debate about whether they got it right, and like we're sick to our stomachs about it, was last year when Florida State had that weird injury with Jordan Travis. Right. That was the only time in the 14 field that it felt unjust. The 12 team playoff era is going to feature a lot more at the end of the year. And again, decisions that are going to feel unjust. That's all I'm saying. You're not going to feel sorry for the team that gets left out because they could have won another game.

Cause like that's my like, and I found this out about myself last night Because when I went on the show I said the first thing I said was exactly what you just said I said I will not feel bad for 13 14 and 15 because if you're not good enough to be five then who gives a shit Right, like I'm with you on that Are we 1000% sure Andy 1000% sure that if there are four teams in the SEC. That are 10 and two at the end of the year and Clemson is a two lost team that

lost in the ACC or even if Clemson's undefeated ACC champ with the only loss coming to Georgia in Miami only has one loss that Indiana is 1000% in at 11 and one. Are we sure about that? Like, are you sure? Like, and it's like, cause I don't think that that's guaranteed at all. Like I think that it is possible that Alabama would get chosen over them if it comes down to one last spot

because they will have a win over Georgia. You know how this goes, who you beat is more important than what your record is. So- Well, then Indiana should beat Ohio and then it's Indiana. Well, that's the thing though. It's like Indiana would in this scenario would have done more with their schedule blowing literally. They haven't won a game by less than 14 this year. If they go on the road to Ohio State, take into account. I understand. I'm not saying they can't get in. I am pushing back. You're inventing a scenario that's almost impossible.

All right, let's make a bet. If Indiana goes 11-1 and doesn't get in, what do I have to do? What embarrassing thing do I have to shave my head? Let's make that bet if the teams, if there are more teams that I'm talking about. I'll make that bet with you. Okay, because I'm telling you right now in 11 and 1 Indiana, we'll get in. Now, I think we're actually still making big assumptions on that there's going to be an 11 and 1 Indiana. And you know me, I'm Mr. Hoosier at this point. Like that is not a given.

And you are we fall into this trap every year, usually around this time of year, where we say everything's going to be chalked from here on out. It is not. What always like back in the day when the SEC would have the weekend of cupcakes, we'd be like, this weekend is going to suck. There's been nothing that happens this weekend. That's interesting. And some like mind blowing upset would happen. There will be those. I know you're like- There will be all of those.

I understand. Like I understand the concept of upsets in like November. Like I get it. All I'm saying is, is that we are at a point in the year that's further along than I anticipated with more teams that are alive than I anticipated that have very easy schedules down the stretch. Like very easy schedules. Like if you look at the teams that are still alive, and we need to do this, I need to sit

down and do this exercise where I, I figure out how many teams are still alive and look at their schedules. There's a lot of 22, we've got a 22 point spreads all over the place. Like we're not talking about games that are four or five. Like these are like, we're gonna, at a certain point, you are gonna have to start counting on Duke to beat Miami. Games like that to happen for this to get a little bit cleaner. And the only point I was trying to make,

and I really did not wanna get into a debate about whether it's better or worse. I don't think that's relevant. The point I'm making is this system is going to produce more shafting than the last one. It at a lower level. Last year, an undefeated team that won a power conference got left out. That is not happening this year. That is not happening this year. That is never happening again. Right, so if you don't care about the lower level, that's okay.

I didn't think I did. They don't, we know that. I didn't think that I did. Like coming into the year, like I was like, oh yeah, if you're 13, screw off. But this has made you care more about the Mountain West race and the American race. It's made me care. Like that also was for the point. I found myself and it's funny coming from me

More attached to Indiana than I thought I would be And if Indiana and if Indiana doesn't get in because they lose a close game to Ohio State and then they send a two-loss Alabama team or a two-loss team from the SEC because of if Alabama goes, that means Tennessee has to go, right? You can't do one without the other. Right. Unless it's Tennessee only. And then Indiana gets screwed because they didn't beat Georgia at the end of the year.

That's going to fricking suck. And that scenario didn't exist last year. And Indiana might not have this opportunity again for a while. I mean, Florida State got screwed last year so they can put Alabama in. So yeah, yeah. I'm saying though, like you. The thing that kind of annoys me is, is that the 12 team thing was about inclusion for a lot of people. Ari, I got it.

I got it. I got it. I got it. If 11 and one Indiana gets left out of the playoff, your USC bet loss is forgiven. Okay. out of the playoff, your USC bet loss is forgiven. Okay. I mean, don't make me root against it now. I mean, like, the thing that bothers me, Andy, is you can't spend all year.

And I'm not saying you, I just mean- You've come to the scenario that's not gonna happen. Okay. To make as the tent pole of your argument. That's not going to happen. Like, now, is there a chance that a 10 into Alabama gets in over some other team that you think is deserving that's also a two loss team?

Yeah. I think it might happen to three teams this year at once. Guess we'll find out. And if they choose the helmet over the resume or if they choose the helmet over a team that I deem deserving, I think that's bullshit still. That's fine. Come on the show now and argue about it. We will. We will. So I don't know. I don't know. Is that not a saucy? Like you have to rate the take. I don't even know. It's not a saucy take at all because it's wrong. It's just wrong.

I don't even know. So I guess it's kind of saucy because like it's saucy and it's wrong. It's just wrong. I don't even know what's right or wrong. So I guess it's kind of saucy because it's saucy in its wrongness. What is there to be wrong about? That all teams are gonna get screwed is wrong? I mean, if you think so, like you're the one who said you're not as sympathetic toward that team

that is number 13 in the world as well. But I did find out about myself that I might actually be more sympathetic to those teams than I thought. Look at your heart is grown like three sizes, Ari. Yeah, I don't know if it's northern poisoning, but I do feel like there are teams that... And I'll feel really bad for Clemson if they lose to Miami in the ACC Championship game and then lose because they scheduled a big game.

That's going to suck. That is a result the committee should try to avoid because you want people to schedule good games. Like you want to reward those. Steven Wilson in the chat says it's medium spicy. So I'll go with medium spicy. What else do you think? I actually thought you were gonna be like,

it's not spicy because yeah, we know that, but I don't care. Like that's what I thought you were gonna say. I don't really care. But I do think it's like, I don't even know what you think I'm wrong about. I think it's funny that you cannot handle being so wrong about this, that you got to keep throwing shoveling dirt on it.

That's I swear to you, that's not my I'm not even rocket top. Tom's in the chat still arguing about bowl games like anybody cares. OK, the second take I had was me agreeing with Davos Sweeney, Davos Sweeney and I don't agree very often. I think the man has his heart in the right place and I think he says a lot of stupid stuff that he doesn't think through in press conferences. But I saw on On3 yesterday that he thinks that we should do away with the red shirt and all the, the eligibility rules, the medical stuff, and just give everybody 5 years. Do what you want during 5 years. It would stop opt-outs. No matter what happens, you get 5 years and just make the eligibility stuff clean. And I think that that is the correct take.

to take? Ari, you are correct and Dadlo is correct. Yeah, and I don't know if that's the end of the conversation. The coaches have actually wanted this for like 20 years. They've been arguing this for 20 years and there's been resistance to it. But the 4-game redshirt rule was put in place in a different era with different transfer rules, pre-NIL, and it was made so that teams could have more depth at the end of the season.

And it was well-intentioned. But now, because of the change in the transfer rules, it has become a weapon that's used by players' agents, that's used by coaches themselves, that it's not helping anybody. Like you had the Colin Lacey situation at Louisville that like it's not. It's not helping anybody like you. You had the Colin Lacey situation at at Louisville. Where he's shutting it down and he's going to redshirt you had the the

Matthew Sluca situation at UNLV earlier in the season. You had Bear Alexander. You had Jaheem Otis at Alabama. We you know we know the names but. This is something coaches have said just give him five to play five right now. They have four to play. They have have said, just give them five to play five. So right now they have four to play, they have five to play four. Give them five to play five. Some of the coaches say, you know,

if there is a catastrophic injury, then you can petition and try to get the waiver. Some say no waiver. But I think five to play five is an inherently fair way to do it. And if you get injured three years, that stinks, but that's just the way it turns out for you. Like it's the same way that people have career ending

injuries and stuff. Like five years is a really long time to figure out how to play football. And like, if you can't, like, I just, I think we should be done with the, with the 29 year old who's in his eighth year thing. I think we should be done with how many games that a person play this year

and should they get thrown out or should you sit out and weaponize it? Like all this stuff that is just like that we talk about, that we ramble about, like it's important because the rule still exists. But like, I just don't wanna talk about it anymore. It's just like, go do what you gotta do. You get five years and then when the five years is up,

no matter how it played out for you, you're done. And that's it. Yeah, yeah. I think the unintentional consequences where you've you change one thing for one reason and then another rule change for a different reason but it affects it like yeah this is as Scott in the chat says this is this isn't a take it's common sense. It's interesting I'm reading the chat and and every this is a common sentiment like what Scott's saying because it is it is common sense. I think a few years ago, people would be like, No, you can't do that. College is four years. Like you did.

That's not how it works. But I also think people are not always just finishing college in four years and you know, non athletes like regular athletes are actually getting their degrees in three now right? Like don't a lot of that because they say they're there in the because they say they're in the summer, they think they take extra classes while they're there. So like, it's not, I think most of them go in three. So the four year traditional, you know, route, I don't know,

really is relevant. I think that also to offering if you're a big proponent of giving kids educational opportunities that like, giving them five years might get more people graduate degrees, so that would be great Yeah, I say it's a good thing the speed at which these guys are getting the bachelor's degree You're probably getting a master's degree in that that amount of time. So yeah, I'm with you. I'm with Dabo. This is definitely common sense and Hey, how about that? And hey, how about that? We all agree on something.

But I actually, yeah, that's weird. I also think too that like if the opt out thing is going to be a problem, like the sluice thing is going to be a problem where you can play for games, eliminate that, leave your team. It would eliminate that completely because I think it would be a problem ongoing if they continue to like, well, until we get to the collective bargaining. You know, that's just like I said, he noticedus thing like why like this doesn't have to happen. This doesn't need to be happening and then it also cuts out with the shady agent angle

of this, you know, it's like you've already started your time. You've got nothing to gain by not playing most of the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have nothing to gain by not playing like J. H. Modus could finish the season and see how things go. Maybe somebody gets injured. Maybe he plays really well in practice and his entire experience changes. I think it also would encourage people to stick through it during hard times like because you don't have like anytime you can limit like the things you gain from quitting I think is a good

thing. Especially if you can still transfer at the end of the year but play out season you never know what will happen. Like let's say thing is, you can still transfer at the end of the year, but play out the season. You never know what'll happen. Like, let's say you're not happy with your spot on the depth chart. Well, what if something happens to the guy ahead of you in the last four games, you get in there and ball out? Like, your whole perspective on things is gonna change. So, yeah, I'm with you.

Ari, what is take number three? The thing I wanted to ask you though, Andy, because I'm not sure, because you're like the legal expert here. You went to law school, I think. No, like we're going to get to a point two, or it's like, the NCAA might get sued for limiting eligibility. So if they put a finite time on it, right, like you're, you're saying you can't be an NIL, you can't have NIL

income, because you're only limiting how much time somebody can be a part of something that makes them. Yeah, maybe which gets kind of murky. So I don't know if that's a doable thing, but I don't know that that's different because they could still sue over the four years. So like it's exactly like I do. I do wonder how that's going to play out. Okay. And lastly, this will be the first time since 2017. There is no SEC player as a Heisman finalist. And lastly, this will be the first time since 2017 there was no SEC player as a Heisman finalist. You know, when I saw, because producer River sends me kind of a thumbnail preview of what you're gonna say, so we can write the headline and the show description and stuff. I saw this and I was pretty sure

this was what you're gonna say. And at first I was like, oh God. And I'm like, you know what? I was the Alonzo morning gift. I was like, yeah, I think you might be right. Because I'm trying to think of who it would be. Because we thought for a while it might be Jalen Milrow. And I guess he could have just a phenomenal end of the season. But like, there's not a quarterback in the SEC

that you look at and you say that guy is absolutely dominant. I don't think Carson Beckett, Georgia has, has been that guy. Uh, Garrett Nussmeyer has been good. What have been had they won Saturday with a good game, but I think that changed on Saturday night. Yep. And then there's not a running back really a receiver. There's not somebody doing something like the thing about the hyzen race

this year to me is I feel like Travis Hunter and Ashton Gentile both are doing something that is so unusual that. We just can't. It's really hard to imagine anybody else because they're doing something so crazy and unusual. Now there may be a quarterback like Dylan Gabriel, I think down the stretch like he just is dominant down the stretch. There's a chance but it is very hard to imagine anybody else just because those two have been so spectacular. Well, there's four players that are in the top four of the odds. Like everybody's top four in the Heisman right now is the same, right? It's Ashton Genty, Travis Hunter, Dylan Gabriel, and Cam Org. Those are the four. And then after after Cam Org, the odds go to like 30 to one, like for everyone else. So I think that like, if Alabama wins the

rest of their games, because like, we don't talk about Alabama in the playoff anymore. I think if Alabama is 10 and two, they're probably gonna get it. I think they're probably in. I just think the assumption is they won't be. But if you look at the schedule, if they beat LSU, then they probably will win out, though I'm not assuming anything about the Iron Bowl. Yeah, I guess we can't assume anything about the Iron Bowl.

But they're 10 and two. Stephen has a good point. So this is the one person I think has a chance. Sussex that while ginty is sucking all the running back love deservingly so Dylan Sampson is gonna have one of if not the best rushing seasons in SEC history. Could you see Dylan Sampson in New York. And not winning. You know you don't think you'd be a finalist. And not winning. You don't you don't think you'd be a finalist.

Have you heard Dylan Sampson's name in any Heisman discussion once? That's true. I guess it's not that I don't think he has a survey. He's Georgia. That would probably be the only way that he jumps into the discussion. I think that it's not out of the question because there is a path to the fame, right? Like, I don't know if the casual fan knows who Dylan Sampson is, which is interesting because he's having a tremendous year. And I think that the real reason why that's the case is that I don't know if we have enough

bandwidth as a college football community to have this much love and affection towards more than one running back. Like Ashton Gentry is like going to be a really good pro too. Like in watching him. So our friends at prize picks, by the way, Ari, the Ashton Gentry square this week against San Diego State, they put the Michael Myers mask on him. They did. It's a good look. What's the number?

It's very cool considering the number is probably like Michael Myers before we play. Uh, that is so funny because it's like so like. I don't even know how you're ready to run the ball and then like run people over, but like I just I don't know if you like the running back position is so hard inherently to win the Heisman at from anyway. I don't know if you could tie yourself into two and it might not be fair. But like we have been in love with Dylan Sampson since before the season, like started going crazy, right? That's all I went to Knoxville dance with the guy.

Like I think he's, he's very deserving, but I am actually kicking myself because the Travis Hunter Heisman odds before myself because the Travis Hunter Heisman odds before the year were so long. It was such a long shot. And I think part of the reason why is because we anticipated that Colorado wouldn't be very good. But in a world where there's no star quarterback that was like Caleb Williams or Drake May or like there was no like Carson Beck was who he was but there's no coming into the season there was not the quarterback who sort of stood out above everybody else yet the runway for him to win the award was a lot shorter than the odds were like when you actually like look at how the

season yeah that would have been a and big cats that he had a 40 to 1 ticket and it's like that was a really good bet Yeah, cuz there's a chance he may cash that I think he's gonna win I think that's who's gonna win this year. Well, we were talking about Dylan Sampson we're gonna talk a little more about Tennessee in a second cuz our friend Nick Roush is coming back on because He said something a couple weeks about go about an eight million dollar volleyball player now Nick, you know, he's from Kentucky Sports Radio, his Wildcats are headed to Knoxville to play Tennessee. We're going to see how he feels about Nico Iamaleaba and the Vols now. But before that, I want to tell you about Wonder Fan.

First of his kind, college football stadium rewards app where fans earn real rewards simply by cheering for their favorite team. All you need to do is head to the app store, download the app, check in once you're at the game or the tailgate and let your earnings grow. It's that easy. During the game, when you're attending, you'll earn in the background once you press start. Once you have enough earnings, you can redeem for gift cards to your favorite brands like Fanatics, Dix, Lululemon, Home Depot, and many more. Even ticket giveaways and fun contests that you can use your points to enter. So your rewards are added weekly. Right now users will get 50 free wonder, wonder the, your, your currency

within the app just for signing up. That will score you a $10 off fanatics code plus a chance to win tickets to the national championship. So just head to the app store and search wonder fan. That's W U N D E R F A N and start being paid for your fan loyalty. Wonder fan where it pays to be a fan. We know who Nick Grouse is a fan of. Well, let's just, let's see what he said a couple weeks ago.

Well, we thought we had that video. Here it comes. It's coming. This is fun. It's not always fun if you're for your specific team, but it is fun to point and laugh from afar. So Tennessee fans, I know you're out there. I know you want me to get triggered, but hey, I don't have an eight million dollar volleyball player who can't throw a go ball. So it's okay.

It's okay guys. Hypo systems. Fine. You're going to be fine. Maybe you'll find a quarterback who can hit some open receivers. It couldn't against Florida. I'm not backing off my take though. Not not for a second. Because here's the thing. You know we're talking about how great Dylan Sampson is.

Everybody their eyes are on Nico. They want to see the eight million dollar man be an all star. Do you know who has more 30 yard completions than Nico this year? DJ Lagway against Kentucky alone. Uh, almost, almost. He had five there, but he, he's played, he's always started two games. He's got a dozen. Talon green has more.

I mean, Brock Vandergriff is probably getting benched. I don't know what's going there. Nico's only got two more 30 yard passes than that. His completion percentage is just a tick above Lenora Sellers Tennessee is good in spite of Niko and in our brains we have Josh Hypal We have him connected intertwined with this amazing high flying passing offense Where the Vols are dropping bombs down the field the Cedric Tillman and co and that's just this is not what their offense is He's good for one or two a game.

And that's, that's fine. That's what they need. But they're winning with defense and running the football. We all know that their defense is awesome. It's going to eat up Kentucky on Saturday. It's just, I'm not backing off this tape, but unfortunately I'm probably going to have to because I am a self-loathing Kentucky fan who has seen this tape time and time again

And I know that Nico's gonna look like Peyton frickin manning Saturday night They're going to roll Kentucky and he's gonna be playing the band after like four touchdowns And I'm gonna be eating all kinds of crow and it's it's just it's life as a Kentucky fan This is we show up to neon stadium and we get our teeth kicked in time and time again. And I hate it. I absolutely hate it. You know, my favorite thing to do was while that rant was happening, I was just locked in on River. Our producers are Tennessee fan. And I'm just like staring at his face as you talk.

And it's incredible. It's great content. Like, do you think that it's just like, I get it. I get why you're saying that. And honestly speaking, like he I get it. I get why you're saying that. And honestly speaking, like, he has not been good enough. Like, I don't know that anybody's disputing that, right, Andy? Like, are you with me on that? No, like, the second half of the Alabama game

is the first time I would say, that's what you were hoping for. That's what you wanted to see. And so, if there's more of that, great, but gotta see more of that. The investment, though though isn't. An $8 million volleyball player who can't hit a go route in his first five games as a starter.

Like it's the $8 million that he's going to get to be a star eventually. Like are you out on the notion that he's going to be great in year two or three? No, and that's now that's me. That's also me being a terrified Kentucky fan because I've had to sit in those stands and hear Rocky top over and over until it turns me into an absolute raving lunatic. And I'm, I'm, I'm fearful of it.

The, the, the issue though is like, we, we, he made the, that throw against Alabama, right? That, that I forget who it was too, but that was one of those. Down the right sideline, yeah, yeah. And you're like, oh, that's where it is. So I think the consistency can be there eventually, but the problem that I think you have to say as a Tennessee fan is this defense isn't gonna be

as good next year when Nico really gets going. I don't think Dylan Sampson's gonna be rocking and rolling like he is right now. Like the window and the schedule, everything's there. So maybe in their wildest dreams, Kentucky is the medicine. The Nick Roush smack talk is the medicine that gets them right. That turns Nico on. Cause like, let's be real. The hitting on your stride in October is no longer necessary in this current college football ecosystem when you got to win three games to get to a title, right? So if he gets rolling in November and we kind of tee this thing up for him,

the schedule is there for them to make the playoff and potentially going to run. But I'm still just, I'm fading Nico, I'm fading him. It's I'm sticking to my guns for now until I had to go into dark mode. And they call it dark mode. For Kentucky fans, it's a blackout because that's the only way you can get through. But what are you going to do? When people come after you? Because it's going to happen.

People are going to come after you. I'll take it. Are you going to? You got to. Trust me, I've been on the wrong side of a few avalanches myself. I get it. But you're a very bubbly personality. I think if anybody can handle it, it's going to be you, right? Like you're going to come out swinging back. It's, it's, it's, this isn't new

to me guys. And I was, I was trying to think of a way to analogize what it's like to be a Kentucky fan and deal with Tennessee fans regularly. Um, because in my life, I've seen three wins. One of them was a wide receiver playing quarterback. Another one, the stands were empty and Jared Guarantano just kept throwing pick sixes. So I have felt pain every time I watched this Kentucky team play Tennessee. It doesn't matter. It's just the logo.

And I didn't know if there was a good way to analogize it, but it goes back to a story where if you played high school football, you're probably pretty well aware that your sophomore year, it's, it's the worst year you're, you're getting beat up as a freshman year with the freshman team. It's not so bad, but you get to your sophomore year and you're just kind of a punching bag, the two best players on our team, I played tight end and defensive end, those were the two best players I had to get my ass kicked by them every single day, but every once in a while,

you think you get to feel a little froggy. It sounds like Kentucky fans do with Tennessee. You get to feel froggy and one day you're just doing a basic field goal block drill and you call the senior that's all conference a ginger and then he picks you up and then he slams you in a puddle of mud when you're only wearing a helmet Of course you wouldn't do that What I do, you know, it's not something I just learned instantly This would be like when I was on the scout team calling, you know future first-round pick Reggie McGrew a Name like I would never call him a name because like the man was like a human cannonball name like I would never call him a name because like the man was like a human cannonball

And I was like the guy who gets the cannonball in his stomach so when I was playing high school football, I would I was playing defensive tackle and I would like line up against the You know center and nobody on my team played college football, but I would say under my breath don't hurt me. I love, I love. So Scott in the chat, this is, this is funny. This has never happened because Tennessee is a serious program on like USC. But if there was an option to buy your way to run through the T on the field with Tennessee, would you do it in Kentucky gear? Because you probably wouldn't make it out of there alive, but would you do it just for

the, just for the clicks? Oh yeah, yeah, there's, there's no doubt about it. And I actually had to think about the scenario and I didn't think about it for a long, because it's not going to happen. Kentucky has been a shell of themselves since that Ole Miss win, which feels like an eternity ago. But with this defense running the ball style, there's like, Ooh, what if they're, what if there's a chance that Kentucky, like in a shock of all shocks, if they beat Tennessee, I mean, I could not contain my obnoxiousness. There's no way around it. The chances of physical violence, um, uh, me drawing that to myself.

I got, it was pretty good chance, right? Like I, I would, and you know what? It, it blamed the victim. You know, you can blame, you're not supposed to victim blame. You could blame the victim in this case, cause I would definitely. Cause he can't shut up. Yes. I would have that punchable face, but it's probably not going to happen.

Even if Kentucky did come out and play its A game like it did against Ole Miss, it's probably not gonna happen. And I think a lot of it is just that logo. And that's the question that I had for you guys. You don't see this as much in professional sports. Like maybe the divisional games are just closer because they know each other well.

But what is it about college sports where some teams just have the others number? Like even in Kentucky's 2018 season, that was one of Tennessee's worst years. One of Kentucky's best, they win that, they're probably going to the sugar bowl and they just lay an egg. You see that with A&M in Arkansas where A&M just kind of got their number. What do you think it is that we're just some teams just have the other one's number? We should actually go look that up Like which weird like Purdue had it with Ohio State for a while there where they played a bunch of weird games with Purdue

And everybody in Columbus is always just like oh god. We got to go to West Lafayette this year Like what is it a like that is a good thought. I wonder like what the ten examples of that would be Tennessee has it it's when they go to Gainesville Like how many times in the past 20 years has Tennessee gone to Gainesville as the better team and lost? Like it doesn't make sense. It just keeps happening though. I wish I could explain it. For Kentucky football fans had to suffer through that with Florida and Tennessee for the longest time. They got over that Florida hump

But if you were to you know up until recently that would have been the biggest criticism of Mark Stoops from average Joe fan was you've been dominating Wolville you've been you've beaten the Florida Street, but you don't beat Tennessee enough and there's a lot of people I know I'm in Wolville so I deal with more Wolville fans, but for a lot of the state, I mean, Eastern Kentucky, like they got the Knoxville TV stations. They had to grow up watching Peyton Manning and T Martin and Phil Fulmer just dominate the sport. So they have to, they have to deal with the balls a lot.

And there's, there's not much you can say. You just got to kind of. Your Rocky top over and over and over and over again. there's not much you can say. You just gotta kinda hear Rocky Top over and over and over and over again. Hey, it's alright. Nothing wrong with getting your corn from a jar. Nick Roush. Have fun. Go to scramble.

Jakes when you get to Knoxville, get a big cinnamon roll. It'll make you feel better about what's about to happen and hit the casino and Cherokee on the way back. That's the only cinnamon rolls and gambling, you know? Yeah. And I think there's a buffet there

if you want to eat your feelings. I've done that a few times in my life. So yeah, thanks buddy for being here. Thanks, Thomas. Thank you, Nick. All right, so in a little bit, we're gonna have Jim Nagy, our friend, the executive director of the senior bowl.

He's gonna tell us about which quarterbacks have increased their draft stock this year. He's going to tell us what the scouts think of Ashton Gentry. He's going to tell us what position Travis Hunter should play in the NFL. But before we do that, we got to talk about Panini America. The show is brought to you by Panini America, makers of the most collectible sports cards on the planet. The Luminance football card series features NIL autograph cards from players including Archman and Quinn Ubers, Cam Ward, Jalen Milro, Dylan Raiola, DJ Lagway, and Luther Burden.

And to start collecting, visit PaniniAmerica.net. I actually have a pack of Luminance right here. We ripped a pack yesterday. We got a Joe Milton autograph card that Producer River's going to get. But let's see what we get. And you know, like we're gonna establish this is how the game is played.

You know, we're gonna look at these guys. We're gonna see, you know, who the each player is. We'll name where they went to college cause that's the game I always play. And who knows when they get something special here. Ari. You got accused of getting a juice, a juiced pack yesterday because of that.

I don't think so. I just think, I just think the gods smiled on us and new producer River was was dying to get a Joe Milton autograph. So okay, Nico Collins, Michigan, Michigan, Tyler Lockett. I loved when Tyler Lockett played at Kansas State because you knew that's who they were going to throw to every time and he'd still catch 11 passes for 127 yards. OK. Naji Harris, Alabama.

Hey Andy, when you told me we're going to play the game of where do the players go to college, I knew they were all going to be NFL stars and for the for the base cards anyway, and I was like this is going to be easy, but we might get to a few that are tough here. Let's go. We might. We might. Jalen hurts Alabama and Oklahoma. Who can claim? Oh, boy. Oh, boy. This is a tough one right here. This is a limited numbered card. Anthony Richardson. He, of course, went to Florida. He, of course,

just got benched for tapping out on a third and goal play. He got ripped by his own center in a press conference. You know what they call that in the card industry? That's a hold right there. Sleeve the thing up, put it in a drawer and hope for a turn around. Ari, we got an autograph from a guy who's in college, a player I really liked. You ready?

Arunde Gadsden from Syracuse. There you go. He's tight in a Ronda gas in the second. So obviously dad was a great, great player for the Miami Dolphins back in the day. But this guy is a fun player to watch. Have enjoyed seeing him at Syracuse the past few years. Look, this is awesome. Yeah, yeah.

The prospecting element of this is just so fun. Like being able to get cards from players who are still in college and then following the rest of their careers, seeing how they do in the NFL draft. I like how they put an L on the card because of the new era that we're in. And that is just the joy.

Do you have any numbered cards in that pack still? So the Anthony Richardson was a number card and we've also got this numbered out of 150 Jeremiah Trotter Jr. He's a rookie this this year with the Eagles. Of course, he played at Clemson and I also love that they're in their college uniforms. Like you got Jonathan Brooks in his Texas uniform right here. Only flash new in his Penn State uniform. And here we go. Marv. Maserati Harrison Jr is Ohio State uniform, so and that's the

best part about this part of the year for Panini like before the players. Take a bunch of pictures in their pro uniforms and stuff they have to release the cards with the the NIL and the college uniforms. And if you're a college collector, there's a lot of really cool products that Panini puts out that aren't luminance to that like have bowl game patches and

autographs of like the bowl games they played in. And it's just really, really awesome. I've got some some cards of some players of bowl games like covered actually that have the patch of like the crest on their, you know, the bowl patch that they put on their jersey is on the card. They cut it out of the jersey and put it on the card. It's really sweet.

Christopher Jordan in the chat said, he ordered his Auburn team set yesterday and Raymond said that you can do that. And Christopher said, yeah, you go to Panini, to the website PaniniAmerica.net and you search Panini 2024 and get the team of your choice. So I just think it's very cool

because this is something that pre-NILE you just couldn't do and now you can. My desk, I've got cards on my desk at all times. This is a big deal for me. I love the hobby and I'm so happy that you get to feel the joy of it a little bit too here. You know you're gonna hit one monster and that's it. Well remember I did this as a kid. I collected you know baseball cards, basketball cards, football cards as a kid and so I do remember the thrill.

When you get a pack of Donrus and you maybe find a rated rookie. Find that Greg Jeffries rated rookie. It was electrifying. If you open up a pack and like just pop off a $3,000 card, there's no feeling like it. I've done it a few times in my life and it's incredible. Well, I've never done that. So I'm ready for that to happen. We've got a lot of packs to open.

We've got a lot of packs to open. Well, that is very exciting. So before we get to Jim Nagy, though, I want to talk about a player who's going home this weekend. Ari Will Howard headed home to Pennsylvania. Started his career at Kansas State, now at Ohio State, coming to Penn State as Ohio State starting quarterback. Coming to Penn State as Ohio State starting quarterback, and I love these stories of dude who's clearly a really good player did, you know, grew up the fan of the home state school didn't get the time of day from them. And wound up being really good and now he gets his chance that is will Howard this weekend and Ari I think will Howard is. One of the most important players for Ohio State because as we've talked about all week, Ohio State has an offensive tackle problem. It may have an entire offensive line problem. I went back and rewatched the Nebraska game yesterday and paid special attention to the offensive line and you know, was it because Josh Simmons, the left tackle went down

and you know, was it. Because Josh Simmons, the left tackle went down. In in the Oregon game and we're going to talk to Jim Nagy about what that meant and how important he was, but said McCloskey, the replacement he got a lot. He just got battered on social media after that game and I was like, was it really that bad and it wasn't great for him? He ended up getting hurt too, so we'll see if he plays this week, but it was the entire line. It wasn't just Zen that had a tough game against Nebraska.

The entire line did. And I think Will Howard's going to have to try to make up for some of that. Maybe with his legs in this game in terms of either getting out and keeping plays alive so he could throw the ball down the field to those incredible receivers they have or just helping the run game. With some yardage on the ground. Yeah, you know I. I have an opinion about the Will Howard quote from after the

game on Saturday and I was going to write it and I was just like I don't I don't it and I was just like, I don't know that I should write this, but I'm going to tell you what it is. My thought is you are 10 minutes removed from nearly losing to Nebraska on your home field and you go up into the news conference and go, well, I can't wait to go. To Penn State. I wanted to play there. They didn't think I was good enough. Well, we'll see next Saturday. Like I'm just tired of hearing Ohio state players talk.

Don't talk, just go do something. Like last year, um, when all these players came back, they're like, ah, we're going to write the ship. You know, we're going to, it's just like all this like promises Orion day on, uh, last week, uh, we're going to, you know, play with energy or an angry team, you know, tells the people at the skull session before the game today isn't about words. It's about actions. And it's just like time and time again, they come up short. Go do something.

And then after the game, tell us about how they didn't want you. Don't do it before. Just go go to the game and do it. Well, how are you doing that? Because I don't I don't think Will Howard is an Ohio State player. Like I still think of him as a Kansas State player, so no, I know, I know, but it's just like you hear like Ohio State does a really good job of talking.

Like honestly, they say a lot of what they're going to do and they haven't really done much. So it would be nice to see them do something first and then gloat about it after rather than vice versa. So we'll see. I can't wait. Like it's an important game for Will Howard. And, you know, I think that he's going to have to lift his team up. I think he's a very good player. It's a very

big game and an important spot for both teams. Well, let's talk about Will Howard in terms of prize picks our friends at prize picks the best daily fantasy game in America. Download that app, use the code staples, play $5 and get $50 instantly if you're a new subscriber. This is a really interesting number, I think. His passing yardage number is 224.5. Will he throw for more than that or less than that? I'm not as worried about that one as his 14.5 rushing yards number.

So this one's interesting because it seems low, especially for a guy who's pretty athletic, but remember sacks get backed out of your rushing total. I think it's gotta be more than this for them to win. Yeah. Yeah, I think that that's a fair point because you're baking the sacks into that, right? doesn't get sacked yes yes okay so I see what you're doing there um I think that that makes sense like if he has positive rushing yards or gets the 15 then that means that you know he didn't get his butt kicked all day although he could get sacked seven times and break off 160 yard run but I guess what you're saying

makes a ton of sense to me. Well, and also I watched Chip Kelly's press conference yesterday, and he was answering questions about, because somebody asked, can Will Howard help more in the run game? And Chip Kelly's trying to explain how the read option works. Will's just making the read, and the read

has been give the ball to the back, which they have not had a great, they didn't have a lot of success against Nebraska just give the ball to the back, which they have not had a great, you know, they didn't have a lot of success against Nebraska, just given the ball to the back. And Chip came out and said, he's like, it's not like with T-Bo, we're not running QB power here where the QB is definitely running the ball. Like it needs to be the read.

So I guess it probably will depend on how Penn State plays them as well. You know, Andy, he's only rushed for more than 14 and a half yards three times this year. Yeah. Sorry, he's only done it once, my bad. No, no, it's- He got the 14 twice.

Yeah, it's gonna be very interesting. I actually like the less than number there, if I'm being honest with you. Between the sack potential and the fact that he might not be running. Yeah, yeah, I don the fact that he might not be running. Yeah, yeah. I don't like that number at all. I think that's a little high.

So yeah, but I, it's a very big game for both teams and Will Howard avoiding pressure, maintaining his eyes downfield, moving the sticks with his legs, all that stuff's going to come into play. And I think that these numbers that we're looking at here, Andy, whether he eclipses them or not is gonna go a long way in telling us the story of who's gonna win this thing. I think you're exactly right. I am very excited.

We're gonna talk about Will Howard a little bit and a lot of these other players in the Penn State, Ohio State game with our friend, Jim Nagy, the executive director of the senior bowl. He is the scouts scout. And he watches college football from a very different perspective than we do. And it is fascinating. Here's Jim.

To be joined by the executive director of the recent senior bowl, Jim Nagy and Jim, I know this is a very busy time of the year for you. You've got these three hour calls with NFL teams trying to figure out who, who they should be picking. But I also know you're in a weird position because of the way the game has changed. You've also got players and their agents calling you saying, Hey, what should I do? Should I go in the draft? Should I, should I go in the portal? Should I stay with the team? I'm on like what?

How is that changed? It changed a lot and he good to be on with you guys. Good to see Ari. Yeah. Yeah, it's changed a lot man This thing is we all know I'm just over probably the last two and a half three years the college football landscapes Just crazy. So so yeah I mean it's it's it used to be agents reaching out to see if their guy was going to get a senior bowl invite or where they stood or what we think of them or what the league thinks of them. And there's still a lot of that. There's still a lot of that. But there's also well, hey, like the school wants to, you know, because I guess all these NIL deals run out in December. So they're, they're trying to get ahead of it right now, because this is like poaching season and there's stuff going on behind shenanigans, going on behind the scenes.

So it's just like, you know, should this guy come out? Like, what are you hearing? Um, so yeah, it is, uh, not to keep going, but yeah, it's, it's definitely changed. No, Jim, you have like the, like the the key into the underbelly of college football. Like when you think about college football, in general, everybody knows that there's all this is like this like layer beneath the surface of all this crazy stuff happening. And we only get like 10% of it, you get a front row

seat. That's like pay per view stuff right there. I mean, what's it like being you? Man, maybe you can make a case you're one of the more powerful men in college football if you're helping people make decisions on whether they should go back. If you hated somebody's team, you could be public enemy number one, you know? Yeah, no, I would never do that. Yeah, it's like the Conor Stallions, right? That show comes out, we find out about this underbelly of college football

with the analyst stuff, but no, it is a, you know, I mean, it's like you guys. I mean, you have relationships. And, you know, going back to my time in scouting, I mean, these coaches, I mean, most of the guys that when I was coming up as a young scout, most of these head coaches are coming up as young coaches. So those are kind of my contemporaries. So, you know, I have the, I have a direct line to those guys. And again, the players mean a lot to me. You know, I don't like seeing players be steered wrong. So that's, that's really my main motivation is to make sure these kids are doing the right thing. And unfortunately, I don't always connect with them. We truly leave the players alone. Like with the Senior bowl process, like I don't jump in thes

I don't track down their that to me, that's not ou it again, it's just respe trying to win football ga we shouldn't, we shouldn' to those guys. But, but y there's a lot going on. I for compelling

Compelling content if you could put it all out there, but yeah, it's changed quite a bit And he has the face though that would make for an awesome thumbnail on Netflix, right the man who's yeah I mean, I'm envisioning the the Netflix doc or maybe the HBO show where it gets dramatized Where you you tell some of these stories to the to the screenwriter? And then they sort of change the names and a couple little identifying details and we get where you tell some of these stories to the screenwriter and then they sort of change the names and a couple little identifying details. And we get the show that's about like a whole 10 episode season, it's about football, but we never see

a football game because it's all about the drama going on behind the scenes. Matthew McConaughey could play Jim and Jonah Hill could play me. I don't know who would play you in this documentary. Yeah, it used to be Gary Sinise. I used to get fat Gary Sinise, but I don't get that. A lot of weight actually. So I'm feeling pretty good about it. Like he's like, all right, Jim, let's, let's talk about some of the guys that we do think are in their final year of college who may be headed to the NFL next year and about, you know, some

of the stuff there, cause like we got this huge game this week, Penn state and Ohio state in happy Valley. Like what, what guys are you looking at close in that game? Oh dude, like the whole Ohio state roster. I mean, that's, I mean, that's, that's going to be one of those games. I mean, there's a I to be one of those games. a handful of games every are just really dialed in got NFL matchup, you know you look on the field, wh corner deep, you know, co

O line D line. Um, I mean Ohio State front four cou should be here in mobile, level, there, there's linebackers, there's ZBs on the offensive side. They've got two running backs, they got the quarterback. They got basically the whole offensive line. Unfortunately, Simmons got hurt. He was our top rated offensive lineman when he got hurt. So that was a bummer.

But yeah, it's just a great matchup. In Penn State, I mean, not to leave that, they've got a ton of really talented dudes too. They've got running back, quarterback if he comes out. I mean, Tyler Warren, their tight ends playing is good at the position as anyone in college football. Tons of dudes on defense. So it's going to be a fun one.

Have they picked a kick time yet for that? Is that going to be like a nighttime? It's noon. Night. Oh, it's noon? Yeah. Oh, what are we doing? Yeah. What are we doing, Big Ten? the the the the the

the the the down these guys, like, cause like you just mentioned a lot of the, um, you know, it's just funny to hear you say like the entire Ohio state roster and then them not looking that great as a team right now, like when you are, are breaking down these players, I mean, how often do you feel like you get a sense for how games are going to go and, um, with a specific matchup, and this is kind of a two part question without Simmons, you know, Ohio State has a tackle problem right now. And they have Penn State's got a few edge rushers on their team that can wreck a game. What do you see with this game from a talent perspective and how these two teams match up together?

together. Yeah, you know, so again, we're at that part of the process where we had our scouting meetings last week. We're on these calls with the NFL teams right now. We were talking about it up there. I mean, if you just go NFL talent in what schools have the most players, I mean, we, we just counted 13 guys from Oregon that could be here and someone, you know, one of the young guys on staff made the point, well, like, yeah, it makes sense. They're really good. So it usually matches up. I don't know if that's what you were asking. I mean, you watch these teams, I mean, usually teams with the most NFL prospects are the ones that have the best teams. You know, in terms of this matchup on the offensive line, yeah, that's a, that's a big blow. I mean, I think they kicked Donovan Jackson out to tackle. He's obviously one of the most highly rated guards. I don't think he's getting out of the second round.

We would have invited him last year as a junior. And I think he wanted to come back and see if he could be a first round draft pick. But he's not a pure tackle body. And he just doesn't, I mean, he's more of a guard skill set. So that's gonna be a tough match matchup and you're bringing Andre Carter up the edge and, and all those guys. So it's, it's, it's going to be tough, but how they manage that. Do they, you know, keep a tight end in things of that nature?

It's certainly going to, it's certainly got to change what you can do. Cause you got to me, in our opinion, the best tackle in the draft, you can just set them out there and let them do his thing and dance in front of people all game. You don't have to worry about it. Um, yeah, it certainly changes what Ohio state has to do. So Will Howard was the guy that, that you guys were paying attention to last year as a potential guy you'd have in the senior bowl coming out of Kansas state, going into the NFL. He goes to Ohio state. What have you

seen from him this year, uh, in terms of growth development? Yeah, he was actually the guy that called well the morning he was getting on the plane to go to Columbus and I was calling to invite him to last year's senior bowl when we when we realized we weren't going to get Jaden Daniels. So but yeah, I think he's I think he's had a nice year like even the Oregon game. I know that he got slammed a little bit for that last second clock management. That was that was, that was a rough scenario, man. Like he was trying to get down.

I get it. Um, I don't think the NFL is going to blame him at all for, for that loss. I thought he played really well. I mean, what he's shown, I mean, he is, he's a better athlete that people give him credit for. No, I think he's shown a lot of poise. I think he's shown leadership, like, you know, being kind of thrown into this team. Um, and he's, and he's shown a lot of poise. I think he's shown leadership, like being kind of thrown into this team. And he's been accurate.

I mean, that's what we liked about Will all along is that he's been accurate. And now he's got more people out on the perimeter than he ever had at Kansas State. I mean, it was basically the Ben Sennett show last year when he was at Kansas State. And now he's got all these guys on the outside that he can throw the ball down the field too. So I think you probably see

that more than anything. It's just more downfield throws. I have to be the one that asked us Andy. You knew it was going to go this way. Uh so when Penn State landed drew Aller, I thought that this was going to be a very important thing for that program. Having a potential first round draft pick type body type prospect reaching the ceiling at Penn State. That program could go to heights that it hadn't gone to before. We're not 100% sure what his playing status is going to be on Saturday, but through film breakdown of what he has turned into

and who he's been for Penn State, what do you see on film with him? And are we talking about a person that can play themselves into the first round? Yeah, I think he's been more consistent. Gosh, I hope he plays. I mean, it's been well, I think everyone is well aware that follows

kind of the narrative of Penn State football and Drew's career is that you want to see him on these big stage games. I mean, everyone points to Ohio State and Michigan. So man, I hope he can play. Really pulling for this kid. I don't know if it's like, if I'm like a lot of fans that saw the Tom Ronaldo piece on game day a couple years ago, I mean, I'm kind of pulling for this guy, but he's been really consistent and that's been a good thing. I mean, I think they've pulling for this guy, but he's been really consistent. And that's been a good thing.

I mean, I think they've done some nice things offensively. I mean, certainly getting Tyler Warren more involved this year. I mean, last year they had Tyler and Theo Johnson and they've done a really good job of getting Tyler Warren the football and making plays. So this would be a big one for him. Can he play his way into the first round? Yeah, I think this quarterback class is up for grabs, right? And selfishly in the seat that I sit in, I mean, that's kind of how I look at the position. I hope none of these guys run away with

being like a top five NFL draft pick sometime in November like Jaden Daniels did last year. We thought we had Jaden Daniels and we kind of lost him there during his Heisman run. So for us, this year is shaping up really good for the senior bowl, because you've got a group of quarterbacks that regardless, we haven't got on these calls yet, but I've talked to enough guys over the course of the fall in the NFL.

The teams are all over on this group, and Drew's not even like, Drew's kind of the outsider because he is the junior. There's a bunch of guys that have exhausted their eligibility right now, that there's like Drew's kind of the outsider because he is the junior. There's a bunch of guys that have exhausted their eligibility right now that, you know, there's like six or seven of those guys up at the top and nobody, there's no consensus on them. And then you throw drew in there and that's,

you know, a seventh or eighth guy. So, um, so yeah, I mean, could he, could he play his way to the first round? Absolutely. You know, he has those kinds of tools. There's no question. Is Kyle Shanahan going to crawl across broken glass to take Tyler Warren? It feels like he's like you crossed Kittle and Juice Check and melded them into one human being. Yeah, there's going to be a lot of teams.

And I'll say this for Tyler, man. We invited him last year. We sent the invite. And we got Theo. And I thought Theo really helped himself down here in Mobile. But Tyler has come back and I think with obviously, you know, with all the targets, I mean, certainly the numbers look different. He's just being there's a heavy volume right now, which is great.

He looks more athletic than he has in the past. I mean, some guys do that. Some guys make a jump production wise because they, production wise because they get schemed better or whatnot. But then some guys come back the next year and they just look a little different even athletically. And I think Tyler Warren's moving better. I think he's smoother. I think he's changing direction better.

He looks a little quicker, is a route runner. And the league's gonna love the guy because everyone that goes through the school, they rave about the makeup of the guy. He's like the true blue collar tight end that everyone's looking for. But he's not like the blue collar, you know, overachiever athlete.

Like he's got some niftiness to him. He's good with the ball in his hands. So yeah, I would think Kyle Shanahan and a few other guys would, will be excited to get their hands on Tyler Warren. Jim, there as a overarching question that isn't necessarily about Penn State and Drew Aller, but kind of, um, I find it fascinating that, um, it's so hard to predict which college quarterbacks turn out to be great pros. Like I have, we have a really hard time with that. Like in the thing that keeps me up at night and

please get give me a key you think I'm nuts. But Kyle Shanahan is a name that Andy just mentioned is probably known as the best offensive mind in the NFL right now and a quarterback whisper and all that stuff. And they drafted Trey Lance in the top five and then they drafted Brock Pur Lance in the top five. And then they drafted Brock Purdy with the Mr. Irrelevant pick in the final pick there. How do you get to a point where that mind is wrong about their first pick, doesn't play that guy that was drafted

last until he has to because of an injury and then he turns out to be a guy who leads him to a Super Bowl. How good are you guys at actually looking at the talent in college football and knowing which ones are actually going to hit in the NFL and why is it so hard for people to figure it out? Wow. This is a wow. I'll try not to be long winded.

This is a hard answer. I'll say this. Well, I just think it's so fascinating. It's like you can't, like I have, I watch college football and he watches college football. There are so many great NFL, I mean, sorry, great college quarterbacks who just stink in the NFL. And some that come out of nowhere that turn out to be the greatest. And I feel like it's random. Yeah, I'll say I'll try to go in a couple different directions on this. I mean, one, Trey Lance was a big projection, right? Just coming from the FCS level.

That's a significant jump. You know, and then on the flip side, we've all tried to figure out the Brock Purdy thing because I missed on him, too. Like, he was... We invited Tyson Bajan to the Senior Bowl that year because we felt like the league needed to see a division two kid Then that's bad on me. We should have you know, maybe not in place of not in place of Tyson Tyson's doing great Maybe we should have invited Brock instead of somebody else

But when you look into Brock's background, I mean a guy played a ton of football. He played a ton of football He lifted a program up and got them to play above kind of their level. So there's like that's that. I think when you break down these college quarterbacks, the biggest thing is trying to find transferable skill sets and like throws that really matter. I always tell our young scouts that like you can throw away probably 85% of the throws in college football and

really just dial down into muddy pocket throws where you're throwing under duress. And then tight window throws in ideally the combination of those two things because that's the NFL you got to operate in chaos. I mean, we watched the game last night and Daniel Jones is running for his life and Russell life a all over the place. I mea chaotic position at the n really hard, especially f are getting drafted and t

on a bad football team ri me, that's the selling p Sanders this year is that operate under those circu he's gonna thrive, he's g talking fine. You're talking about a guy that's gonna translate. I would probably feel as good about Shadour as anybody in this class. So yeah, I think it's those things. You watch college football and most of the time those guys are sitting back there patting the football and they're throwing to the guys that are wide open. So you can't look at the numbers, you can't look at the stats. I mean there's a

lot of college quarterbacks that are like 40 touchdowns to four interceptions. Like that's just not realistic. So again, we could do a couple hour show on this, but to me that's the thing. And then I think the last thing that the league really seemed like they were dialing into this past draft cycle was the adversity piece in how these guys handle it.

Not to name names, I think we can all, a couple of guys probably pop into our minds right now, but think of over like the last, you know, five years, if some of these early round quarterbacks that haven't worked out. And it's because they've, you know, they've faced some adversity and they've struggled with it.

You know, we just, just today, I just, Anthony Richardson looks like he just got benched in favor of Joe Flacco. So we'll see how Anthony Richardson handles that. A lot of these guys haven't handled adversity. It's been really easy all the way through high school all the way through college. No, when I was with the Seahawks, that was like our first question. Every player we interviewed, it was tell me about the roughest thing you've ever been through in life. Okay, how did you handle it?

How did you get through it? Who did you lean on? I don't feel like the league was doing that so much with quarterbacks like we were doing that with the linemen and corners and wide outs But I felt like through this draft process Especially here in Mobile because I was you know walking around the interview stations and talking to guys about stuff That's why like Bo Nicks who ba adversity going from Aube Oregon. I'm trying to thin

guys that transferred and a couple of Michael Penick that battled through some I think the league is dia because it is a hard league go through some crap and inside you to get through that? And so again, I think the league is continuously

trying to figure out why they're missing. And I think that's the latest thing they've landed on is that we need really mentally tough guys that can gut through the tough stuff. Another QB I wanted to ask you about, because you mentioned guys that have played a lot of football. Like Cam Ward has played a ton of football. He's now at basically his third level because he's been an incarnate word then Washington State. Now Miami. You guys have all this film of him against different level competition with different level teammates.

Like what are you seeing from him now? You're seeing a guy function in more of a pro style offense. And I will just say this, it sounds like a cop out. Call it whatever you want. He was a really hard eval in Washington State last year. I mean, what he was doing, he was playing mostly off script. And that's why I've called it. He has a Houdini quality to him. I know that's a really dated reference.

Not many young people know who Harry Houdini is these days, but he had some magic to him. And that's what you liked about him. You saw him running around and buying time and making a lot of great improv plays. But this year, you wanted to see him play more from the pocket and more on script and on schedule. And I think we're seeing that. Shannon Dawson, the OC at Miami has done a great job. He's done great things at a lot of places he's been. We had his quarterback from Houston, Clayton, tuning the senior bowl a couple years ago.

He did really, really good things with Clayton. So you're still seeing some of those magic plays from Cam Ward. I mean, those were what we all see on Twitter, right? Like Kim escaping the pocket and side arm in a ball 30 yards downfield on a rope and that's great but we are seeing him play more on time which is to me where the league is feeling like he's made his jump. So yeah I mean a year ago at this time we didn't invite Kim Ward to the senior bowl on these calls that were on this year a year ago. Most teams had him in the

fifth and sixth round up a lot of ground. He's, see how high he's gonna g going to be to me one of things in this year's dra teams had him a year ago some of the media are pro does it end up in april?

up? But he's certainly, M a lot of guys that are pl got a text from a scout t April. Where does he end Miami's role and there's are playing good ball. I a scout today that's in t was hitting me up on a co So they've got a lot of g football. Jim, one of the players in in college foo

Travis Hunter, right? Bec both ways. He plays the e ways. And I was listening to a podcast or Reddit somewhere that the completion percentage of balls thrown his direction when he's on defense is like 60%. And his completion percentage when he's on offense is like 87%. And he's doing things that we haven't seen, winning offensive and defensive big 12 player of the week, all these things. What do you see on tape from him? And like, honestly, what position does he project to in the NFL in your mind?

Yeah, you'd like to see him cover himself, right? How cool would that be to see Travis Hunter cover Travis Hunter? Probably do it, if we're being honest. He's like the only guy that could shut himself down. Yeah, he's phenomenal, man. In terms of, I saw him a couple years ago. I was really fortunate. I got to go up to Jackson State and Coach Sanders had me come up there and speak to the team that year. So I got to meet Travis and I met Shador. Really impressive young guys.

They were freshmen. So it's been cool to kind of watch him. And yes, he's a phenomenal athletic talent. To me, what he, to m get credit for is exactly guys going both ways full stamina, the toughness, t

focus, right? Like some g is focusing as part time be like, you got to be di So like all those other t really makes Travis Hunter my mind, there's other great athletes in college football. But, but I would say in terms of his position, if it were me, I think he's gonna be great on either side, I would play him at corner. And then I would spot play him on offense at the next level. I do think you can get just like they did with Coach Sanders when he played in the NFL. You're gonna be able to get Travis Hunter some touches on offense. I think some of these you brought up Kyle Shanahan.

I'd love to see what Coach McVeigh and St. Louis would do. Like some of these creative people, the Detroit Lions right now are doing some really cool creative stuff. To have this guy on defense and then flip him and get try to manufacture five to seven touches a game out of this guy on defense and then flip him and get, you know, try to manufacture five to seven touches a game out of this guy on offense. That's where I would go. That's where in my head, at least right now,

that's where my head would be if I were in NFL team. Now, Jim, before we can let you go, you know how this works. I have to have you educate the people about somebody at a smaller school who's blowing up, who they're gonna hear a ton about in the spring. So can you tell everybody about David Walker from Central Central Arkansas?

Yeah, so he was our defensive player of the week this year. Central Arkansas guy. Had a lot of I was texting with his coach Nathan Brown last night and I just I'm like can I put it out there? Like what were the offers this guy was getting? It was it you know P4 stuff was a group of five stuff and it was both. He could have he could have went and got a lot of places and made a lot of money. I think I put his stats out there 72

tackles for loss and 35 and a half sacks or something over his last four years. I mean this is three first bubbles in his last game. Yeah. Three force bubbles. I don't know if I've ever seen a game with three force fumbles. That's kind of what made him the player of the week. But he's an undersized edge guy, kind of a tweener-ish build, 6' 1 and 1 half, 260. But just to boil him down, he's got really natural rush talent, and he's relentless.

He can beat you in a lot of different ways. He can run around you. He can dip around you, because he is a shorter guy. So he can kind of get around you that way. He can cross you up. And then his motive just never stops. I mean, the play that I posted last night on social media, I mean, that's just an effort play.

That was like an old school Michael McCrary from the Baltimore Ravens, like scurry on all fours, like just to make a sack type of play. He's a really cool player, man. I mean, he's gonna translate. He's a six-year guy. He played D2 football out of high school. He's kind of worked his way up.

But I don't care what level you're at. If you know how to rush and get to the quarterback, most of those guys figure out how to do with his pros. And I put it out there last night. I think he's gonna be the first first sub FBS defensive player drafted. I think the first sub FBS offensive player will there's a there's a tackle at William and Mary and then there is a guard

at North Dakota State and those two guys will probably be the offensive player and I would I would think David Walker would be the defensive guy. Well, if you want to see David Walker go to Jim's Twitter feed, it's it's at Jim Nagy underscore SP. And if your eyes don't bleed from

Central Arkansas's field, which is alternating gray and purple, you will see some amazing football. Andy there. I'm glad you made that point. There is only one other school that has harder tape to watch. I mean, I'm not a huge fan of the blue turf. I try to Eastern Washington, right? Eastern Washington will make

your eyes bleed. I mean, it's Michael Roosfield. Michael Roos was a great player. And I know he donated all that money to get his name on the field. But man, it is so hard to watch Eastern Washington home tape. I we try to watch we try to watch all road games when it comes to Eastern Washington guys. What actually one more because you did bring up the blue turf and I have to ask you about this guy because he's having a historic season, but from a scout's perspective, we, you know, we're looking at Ashton Gentey's numbers and

just like, Whoa, but when you guys watch Ashton Gentey run the ball, is that the same feeling? Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, I'll say this, like it,, I'm not gonna sit here and, you know, try to sound like Super Scout or anything. I mean, we really liked this guy over the summer. I compared him to the Damien Tomlinson, and I hesitate to do that.

It's a really lofty comparison, especially in the past game, is where I saw LT. And we have a scout on our staff this year that was with the chargers when they drafted L.T. and I asked him, I'm like, do you see it? He goes, no, he certainly compares. He went and watched him play live against Oregon this year. So what he's doing right now isn't a surprise. I've said this, I think he plays his position better than anybody else right now is playing their position, maybe outside of Travis Hunter. I think those would be the two guys I would put into that category in terms of

across college football. So yeah, he's gonna be a phenomenal player at the next level. I mean, the run skills are great. He's got great contact balance and he's just cool bouncing off stuff and ripping long runs off and that's fun. But it's the pass game stuff to me that really makes him different. Jim, thank you so much. We are gonna start writing those scripts.

We're gonna get McConaughey on the line. We'll call the Texas Athletic Department just ask for the Minister of Culture and be like, look, we got the role for you. Thank you so much. All right, that was good. Good to see you, good to see you Ari. Yep.

That is the great Jim Nagy, executive director of the senior bowl. We love when he comes to visit. He's probably going to be back in a couple of weeks to help us parse what is going on in college football because there are some Titanic games involving lots of guys who are going to be very draftable prospects next season. Now I want to have a little draft because I want to use your questions in Dear Andy and Ari tomorrow.

So we've gotten some good ones. We can always use a couple more. You know how to find us. I'm at andy underscore staples on all your various social media platforms. Ari is at Ari Wasserman on all your various social media platforms. You can email me andy staples on three at gmail.com. If you have a truly epic question and there's a couple in there already very excited to get to. We love it when you help drive the show. Also, I have a very special guest tomorrow. We're scheduled to record with the man Paul Finebomb. We had the King of the North Doug Limerice last week. Well, now we get the Emperor of the South Paul Finebomb all

tomorrow on Andy and Ariane three. Thank you so much for watching. Thank you so much for listening. We see what you're doing. We see you telling your friends. We appreciate it. We'll talk you're doing. We see you telling your friends. We appreciate it. We'll talk to you tomorrow.