Andy & Ari On3 - Could the Signal-Stealing Investigation END Jim Harbaugh's Michigan tenure? | Plus, your questions

Episode Date: October 26, 2023

The Michigan signal-stealing saga continues to dominate the headlines, so we turn to Chris Balas of On3's The Wolverine to help separate fact from fiction. Chris explains that the NCAA is scheduled to come to Ann Arbor this week to investigate further.(0:00-3:19) Intro (3:20-5:09) Intro with Chris Balas(5:10-9:59) Could there be punishment this football season?(10:00-13:33) Could the NCAA, Big Ten step in?(13:34-21:16) How does this affect Jim Harbaugh's long-term future at Michigan?(21:17-24:59) How does it affect the team on the field now?(25:00-25:19) Next, it's time for Dear Andy, where Andy answers your questions...(25:20 -35:34) Would the College Football Playoff Selection committee try to punish Michigan in its own way?(35:35-41:40) Has there ever been a better time in college football to be a hater?(41:41-47:36) Are Long Tenured Coaches a thing of the past?(47:37-53:35) Who should Michigan State hire as its coach?(53:36-58:59) What is the future of the Sun Belt?(59:00-) ConclusionThank you to Gametime for sponsoring today's episode! Week 8 is days away, don't miss your chance to watch your favorite team. Download the Gametime App and enter code: STAPLES for $20 off your first purchase, terms apply. Last Minute Tickets, Lowest Prices, Guaranteed.Want to watch the show instead? Head on over to YouTube and don't forget to subscribe!https://youtube.com/live/-5JNe2lXPIY

Welcome to Andy State on three. I think you know what we're going to be talking about today. The story that never seems to end and just keeps getting wilder by the day. The Michigan sign stealing story. It is just more and more and more. Last night it was, we find out that Connor Stallions, the since-suspended staffer, had bought tickets to games at Tennessee and Alabama and Oregon. Then we find old message board posts that had had all the details of it, but nobody realized this is not a message board

conspiracy. It's the real thing. On Wednesday, the Washington Post dropped a story that said a private investigative firm brought a bunch of data to the NCAA, including files from Michigan, I guess, Michigan staff computer that said, here's the schedule. Here's the games that we're going to scout. So, again, this all continues. And for those who are still wondering what's going on, what's illegal, I had somebody tweet at me recently. So wait, scouting is illegal now? Yes. Scouting other teams' games and recording the other team's games while you're there and recording their sideline, not within the NCAA rules. You've not been able to scout in person since 1994 and the recording piece of it has never really flown. So that's what we're talking about

here. And the NCAA is headed to Ann Arbor. They're going to be asking a bunch of questions. What's going to happen from here is the real big question is what does this mean for Michigan this season? What does it mean for Michigan with the NCAA? What does it mean for Michigan with the big 10? What does it mean for Jim Harbaugh? All of these are very big questions. And the more stuff that comes out, the crazier it gets. Richard Johnson, our friend from Sports Illustrated, had a story about Connor Stallions where he got a bunch of text messages, a whole thread allegedly with Connor Stallions from a student at a Power Five school a few years ago who was trying to get into the business. And really crazy details like apparently Connor Stallions has a 600 page manifesto about how Michigan football should be run. And I was thinking, hey, if you're going to pin something on one guy, the guy with the 600-page manifesto, probably the guy.

But I doubt Michigan's defense strategy is that, given what the Washington Post reported the NCAA already has. So there is more to come. This is going to keep going. And oh, by the way, Michigan remains one of the best teams in the country and one of the favorites to make the college football playoff and potentially play for the national title. That makes this even more interesting. To dig deeper into this, we bring in somebody who is very well sourced in Ann Arbor, Chris Ballas of the Wolverine. That's on three's Michigan site. He's been covering this as well as anybody. Here's me asking Chris all the key questions. Right now by Chris Ballas of the

Wolverine on three's Michigan site. And Chris has been very, very busy of late. Chris, this is a strange spot for you because you got to deliver the news, but you know your audience is entirely made up of Michigan fans. So how do you handle that? Yeah, well, first of all, people are like, man, you got to take sides. I had a couple of guys today say, you got to take sides here and stand with the program and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said, no, I got to report the news, man, the good and the bad. Right. And right now it's not good news. So yeah, we're going to tell you when it's good. And yeah, we're going to tell you when it's bad. And right now it's pretty bad. And even worse, Andy, when you look at the Washington Post article that came out today with more alleged misgivings, I guess you would call them, that seem to implicate more than one Michigan staffer, more than just counter stallions. So it's tough.

It is tough because there's been so much good these last couple of years, and now no matter what they accomplish, Andy, everybody's going to say, oh, it's because of this. This team could go out and win the national championship and prove hammering Penn State and Ohio State and everybody else that, hey, it wasn't about the sign stealing, but it's all going to come back and everybody's going to say that's exactly what it was. And that is the toughest part for these players because they obviously had nothing to do with that part of it. They may benefit from it. They may not, but it will kind of just ride with them too, unfortunately.

And so you reported earlier this week that the NCAA is expected to be in Ann Arbor on Thursday. You mentioned that Washington Post story by Will Hobson, and it does seem like there's more of a paper trail than initially was put out there. How tough is that with, you know, if all of that's true, that if there's a budget and there's someone supervising it, how much worse does that make it? Yeah, terrible.

I mean, and there's always more to it, right? That's why last week when everybody was calling it a witch hunt, we'd heard some rumblings. We're saying, okay, let's wait and see what happens and wait and see what the evidence is. And this week, everybody's piling on. And I said, let's wait and see what the evidence is. And everybody thinking everybody's piling on. And I said, let's wait and see what the evidence is. And everybody thinking, okay, this is the end of it. This is the end of it. And we're thinking now probably not because we did know.

And I spoke with you earlier today that there were allegations that Connor Stallions, the analyst behind all of this might've been at some Michigan opponent games recently. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. In person. So number one, that's uh okay all of a

sudden it's not just people he hired it's him right uh number two where was he that'll be interesting i think when that leaks and and people will will see that um uh number three though yeah if you have as the washington post says if you have other coaches accessing this computer supposedly allegedly then it implicates more than obviously than Connor Stallions and indicates that maybe more people knew about it so we have to see who I think the article did say that Jim Harbaugh was not one of them and that there was no trail to him if there's a saving grace for him at least for his reputation maybe that's it and you can say I didn't know any of this was going on, but as the NCAA has said, Andy, and as you know, it comes back down to, you need to know what's

going on at your program. So it's going to be fascinating to see where this goes from here. We will see if the NCAA does make it in tomorrow. I did confirm with two different sources that that was the initial date, you know, maybe with more information here and I've got to assume, right, Andy, that they've got all this information that the Washington Post does, but what they approach Michigan with and what they plan to do about it. Yeah, and the Washington Post is citing an outside investigative firm that was kind of put on this case, I would imagine, by another school or by some interested party. So let your imaginations run wild on that. I'm sure we're going to find out eventually who that was. But it is, guys, this is just the weirdest, most college football case. Because I was talking about this on a radio show earlier today.

And it was, when you think about it on its face, it's crazy. Because you're saying you can't video or actually just can't go watch something that is taking place in front of thousands of people yeah and and i get it the rule's been in place since 1994 you have to but it's funny because like when this story escapes our little college football bubble and is on get up or is on something that's more of a you know mainstream all sports kind of show nobody's nobody understands it nobody even understands why it's against the rules so it's right it's just bizarre and I'm sure for fans it's pretty baffling as well well here's why it's against the rules is because they implemented it as a cost cousin cutting measure right in 1994 and

of course this is before cell phones and stuff but anybody could bring a video camera in if they wanted to. And there was nothing preventing it before then. Yeah. And, and, and yeah, some big old thing right in 1994, they were smaller, but in 19, in 2021, they actually thought about, it was proposed that they overturned the rule anyway, saying, you know, we all know, we know all this and all this stuff is going on. If you know, you're naive. If you don't think that there are students sending film into Alabama saying, you know, we all know, we know all this stuff is going on. If you know, you're naive, if you don't think that there are students sending film into Alabama saying, Hey, here are the

sidelines, here's the plays they ran and so on and so forth. But there was no coordinated effort or no evidence of it like we see here. So it would be very Michigan to get, to be busted doing something that a lot of other people do right. And get in trouble for it. And you know, we'll see what Michigan's response is. I do know from what we've heard that, you. And get in trouble for it. And, um, you know, we'll see what Michigan's response is. I do know, uh, from what we've heard that, you know, especially in lieu of the new evidence, you know, they will probably be begging for mercy and saying, Hey, you know, uh, I wouldn't call it rolling over, but I would say, okay. Um, you know, what's the medicine, what do you guys have in mind? Uh, do I think it's going to be anything pertaining to this year? No. And neither do they,

um, in terms of, you know, okay, you can't go to the playoff and you can't do this and you can't do that. And I don't, certainly don't think anything's going to come with a big 10 from what they understand as well, but you never know what the NCAA, right. And we're going to find out soon enough, but it is, it's, it's so fascinating because in 2018 and 2019, Michigan was convinced when Ohio state was running up record numbers, Ohio State knew their every play, right?

And they're like, how is this happening? So, you know, is this their response to it? It doesn't matter, you know, what it was. If they were doing it legally and they found a way during a game or something like that, there's no evidence that they didn't. So, but again, such a Michigan thing and really does put a stain on this season, sadly, for those kids who are probably the best team in the country. And and the best team Michigan's had, certainly in the Jim Harbaugh era and probably the best team Michigan's had for a long time. But so you brought up the NCAA thing and what they might do. And I keep coming back to the fact that the last time they went outside their normal

disciplinary procedure to punish somebody was Penn State with Sandusky. They had to walk that back because it got taken to court. I'm guessing they're not going to do anything like that. And so I was going over the timeline today, like in a normal NCAA case, the NCAA gives a notice of allegations. The school has 90 days to respond to that. The NCAA then has 30 days to respond to the response. And then you have committee on infractions here. So at the very least, you were talking about four months. Now you don't have to take that long, but if I'm Michigan, of course I'm going to take that long. Yeah. You want this to play out and you know, you were talking, I think it was you or somebody else who was talking, everybody's talking about vacating games and stuff like that. And that usually doesn't happen unless there are ineligible players and things like that. So could this be a

situation where at the end of the year, they say, okay, you know, we're going to offer up Jim Harbaugh. He goes back to the pros anyway. And the NCAA, like Tennessee says, all right, your head coach isn't there anymore. And, you know, and you know, that's enough. Maybe we slap on some recruiting restrictions or something like that. Who knows? But nobody, nobody can predict these things, right. When it comes to the NCAA, but there's absolutely no way. I think if they were to approach them and say, okay, well, this is what we're doing. We're going to make an exception in your case. Would Michigan say, sure, we're going to, we're fine with that. I'm sure they would take it to court. You know what, go out and win the big 10 and win their championship or whatever, and, um, and go from there. So, but that, uh, as of right now, you

know, based on what we've heard, uh, if they are saying, okay, if they get their notice of allegations tomorrow or next week or whatever, um know then they will proceed accordingly um but they want and hear right now what the evidence is from the ncaa and also you mentioned the big ten and that's what you've seen so adam rittenberg from espn was reporting that uh according to the bylaws the big ten commissioner tony patiti has power to do this stuff but there's no precedent for it really. And I, it's hard to imagine because, and this is one of those things we were talking about the other day where college football being governed by these little fiefdoms called conferences, as opposed to having a centralized structure. I would think this protects Michigan in a way, because why would the big 10

want to knock out one of its own title contenders? Yeah. It makes you wonder, right. And, uh, they shouldn't. And, you know, of course you've got your Michigan fans saying every year, all the big 10 has it out for us and so on and so forth. And, uh, no, uh, it doesn't make any sense. And, and I'm guessing the networks might have something to say about it too. Andy, if you think about it and all the money that they've got, uh, invested into this and the numbers that Michigan is going to put up from here on out and and has all year so um yeah somebody reporting that this is something that somebody has the ability to do people need to keep in mind that is not something that people are planning to do and I think everybody sees that and says oh Adam Rittenberg is saying this is what the Big Ten is going to do no and in fact it's very it's

highly unlikely it's a huge step that they've never taken before so it would it would take some serious you know gumption to to do that and yeah that you're right that just because you have the ability to do it doesn't mean you're necessarily going to because that in and of itself creates a whole bunch of other issues because again it is one of your own members you would be punishing one of your own members that could potentially help the league by winning stuff and so it is it is a mess and and so i want to you brought this up i want to mention it because michigan fans get all over me when i mention the idea that jim harbaugh might not be the coach there next year but we've talked about this a bunch of times he's tried to to get NFL jobs the last two years.

He's clearly got the itch to try to go back and win that Superbowl. He's played, you know, he's coached in a Superbowl. He's coached in three NFC championships games. He was a very good NFL coach. And it does seem like he wants to, to try to,

to conquer that level. And that probably was going to happen independent of all this but now it seems like it might actually be helpful to Michigan to say okay please please find one of those right and and it's not out of the realm of possibility at all in fact some would argue that it is the the path of least resistance here right Okay. If Jim Harbaugh is going back to the NFL and he wants to go back to the NFL and he was going to, you know, he was asking about a new contract and saying, why haven't I gotten one? You know, we reported that a couple of weeks ago that, Hey, all of a sudden, you know, they put the wheels in motion and it shouldn't have gone so far

with him. Frankly, he should have had it a long time ago, but there's no question speaking to people close to him that he, yeah, there still is that NFL itch. People get mad at you, right? If you go back to what we wrote a couple of years ago about the Minnesota Vikings job, he went up there thinking he had the job, Andy. And I think a lot of people did. And that was after a Big Ten championship. Now he's got this program at the pinnacle. And you know what?

So an NFL team would be stupid not to hire him. Maybe not, you know, they might look at this and say, okay, this is a stain on him, but people still want to win. That's the thing, the bottom line. And Bill Belichick still coaches in the NFL and has a similar issue. Right. And you know what? And there's no question. You look at his record. There aren't very many people, him and Pete Carroll and who else who have had that success at the NFL and collegiate levels yeah and that's that's what I think is really interesting because like you said if all of what we've seen reported it winds up being true Michigan may have to kind of beg for mercy in that situation but we look at Tennessee where they sacrificed Jeremy Pruitt and some assistants were like, here, take him.

Punish them as harshly as you want, and we'll pay some fines. Now, the difference was Jeremy Pruitt was losing, and Tennessee wanted a way to fire him without paying him. I don't imagine Michigan wants to lose Jim Harbaugh at this point. No, and I think there are some in the administration, given the allegations now, and probably especially with what's coming out recently, if true, that would say, OK, enough's enough. And, you know, this can't happen. And we're embarrassed because that's Michigan as well. Right. The holier than thou and we do think better. And so I think going in and speaking to our sources, you know, there were people there was a split. There were people that said, OK, let's sign Jim and say, forget the NCAA and let's go forward. And then there were others were saying that we're

saying, no, we're do, we don't want to extend him. So, um, you know, we'll see where this goes now at this point, but certainly clearly more for them to think about. And we will know more, uh, when the NCAA presents this to Michigan and how Michigan responds to it. But I can promise you that Michigan's not going to come out guns blazing and say like maybe an sec school or something like you know and say hey forget you this is our guy we're going to rally behind him the the north carolina uh defense right or kansas with bill self right yeah yeah rally around a guy like that but it worked in both those cases uh in it's interesting though with one, because there is the other case involved. I know they got a draft notice of allegations in January. Did they ever

get the real notice of allegations in that case? No, and they still don't have a notice of investigation for this case. So maybe that's what the NCAA is going to do when they visit with them is drop that on them along with the notice of investigation, or maybe they have the notice of allegations and maybe they've known this all along but uh it's fascinating because you know now you've got all these theories about here about the NCAA league and how he might be linked to Michigan might be a Michigan alumnus uh it's just getting it's getting nuttier and nuttier and that's why I always say you know when Michigan fans ask me has the worst come out yet I'm like ah you better wait and see what tomorrow brings you know

it it feels like just an drips and drain and that's why i've tried to explain to people it's not that everybody is just gleefully tap dancing on michigan here the reason all of this is coming out the way it is is it involves so many different schools it involves most of the big ten you've got three big time sec schools you You got Clemson, you got Oregon, all of those people then converge on their message boards and you get the message where like we, we, you know, unearth the Volquist posts from, from last night from December in January where somebody just described this to them and they're, they're like, yes, sounds kind of weird, but this is what the guy told me and it was

a hundred percent true crazy and it's out there and you know what and here's the thing it didn't have to happen you know what somebody like somebody two years ago said um when they went back and they were thinking about changing the rule that part of the language was you know well it's a minimum minimal competitive advantage because 75 to 80 percent of teams are staying sign stealing in some form or another. And it's naive to believe that, you know, most teams aren't doing this in some form, you know, a hundred percent of them are trying to do it. Yeah, right. Exactly. But to what extent we don't know, but I can promise you, uh, there are teams out there doing it to the extent, probably at

least in terms of getting film and studying it. I'm not saying sending teams people around the country and right they don't have the travel budget for exactly the travel budget but that's an interesting one too who's funding it i think that's probably the next logical question yeah and uh where's that gonna go so it's gonna be gonna be fascinating to watch and certainly disappointing well and i thought that so the richard johnson story in sports illustrated on on connor stallions i thought might might help if Michigan was going to do a one person went rogue strategy. The the guy with the 600 page manifesto is a very good candidate to say he went rogue. But unfortunately, this seems like it was incredibly sloppy and there's a lot of paper trail.

And that's that's the thing. I mean, all of these things kind of get undone by sloppiness more than more than anything else yeah and let's see how did they access these computers who hired the private investigating firm gee i wonder yeah and uh and how did they and who accessed it and what proof do they have that these coaches were accessing it and right anything else that's the funny part to me is like, how are you getting this from a private investigating firm and what lengths are they going to bust your operations? So it's pretty nutty. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, this has gone into some dark places, but hey, it's a multi-billion dollar

business, so not surprising. But it is it is interesting because it the more and more I think about it and so I want to I want to run this by you again because you did mention this earlier do we think this will be Jim Harbaugh's last year coaching Michigan uh at this point with what just came out now uh I would not be surprised at all. Again, knowing and speaking to people that I speak to and what and how they feel. You know, I know that there is a faction there that thinks that Michigan, you know, OK, they don't want to extend him even, you know, people in power. And then you have some that are behind him. But I do know the president is Santa Ono is taking it very seriously and believes this is very serious. So I would not be shocked at all.

Well, I imagine he's going to try to go. If that happens, he's going to try to go out holding up that big trophy at the end of the year. So we shall see that. That's the that's the other piece of this. They're still playing. They're still mashing everybody. So and they're mad, Andy. Oh, yeah, they are.

It feels like they feel like it's them against the world and the funniest part you know the rivals are saying oh of course 2022 look at donovan edwards pointing uh they there was a report that ohio state knew about this and a coach went on record saying we knew about this going into the 2022 game well then shame on you for number one not going in and kicking the living crap out of them with fake signals. And number two, getting beat 45 to 23 in your own stadium. You know, you acknowledge that you knew about it. Uh, that's not an excuse. It's not an excuse for the 49 to nothing, but kicking that you put on another rival, but it doesn't matter. It's going to, they're going to have that stain on them for the rest of their lives. Well, a lot of good memes have come out of this. One of the

great memes that has come out of this is the one where you have an ohio state holding up a coach holding up a sign that says don't tackle donovan yeah yeah everybody knew what the play was on those two didn't they yeah so i mean it is it is going to be a uh a very fascinating next few days weeks months but you're right the the on field part of it is this is a mech well this is a team that just beat somebody 49 to nothing, and they're madder than that now. Yeah, exactly. And I want to make it clear. My opinion on the Jim Harbaugh thing is based on what I know about Michigan and how they handle these things. Right. And if, again, if there is, you know, if they have, they say, okay, you know, if this is what's going to, what it's going to be to get us in the least amount of trouble, this isn't going to be them rallying around a bill self or anybody, a Roy Williams or anything

like that. You know what? They're going to try to protect the brand. Well, so that block M is a very strong brand. So Chris Ballas, thank you so much. Anytimey thank you thank you to chris ballas and that really when you boil it down they may have to do this they may have to say we're we're sacrificing jim harbaugh for for the program here and i i know there's a lot of michigan fans who don't want to hear that who want to think this is technicalities and i i keep saying well if it wasn't staffers at the game no no no outsourcing cheating is still cheating so they've got stuff it's just a matter of how much stuff do they have how serious do they consider it but they've got stuff and this will be a very interesting next couple months. Now, you saw the budget for those tickets. You heard the Washington Post story.

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We've got one from Greg and one from an ex-user whose handle is MDNYC. So we'll start with Greg's question. Let's assume Michigan is guilty and will receive sanctions from the NCAA and the Big Ten. Assuming they play the games, what are your thoughts about any additional pressure on Penn State and Ohio State to beat Michigan now that they have been warned of Michigan sign stealing? What is the narrative if they lose anyway? And then MDNYC says, for the past week, the Michigan story has been about revelations with some uninformed speculation about penalties.

In every major news event, there is a tipping point when sentiment becomes overwhelming. For example, in the great financial crisis, there were two tipping points, Bear Stearns and then the Fannie and Freddie Mac and AIG. Prior to that point, there tends to be a lot of rationalization and dismissal. So what is the tipping point for this? Is it members of the CFP committee declaring it not okay because they don't want an asterisk selection? Is it the ADs and presidents of the Big Ten who demand punishment by Commissioner Tony Petitti, which has real teeth?

Is it Michigan's board seeing the prospect of major NCAA penalties? I'm going to answer both these questions together because I think they kind of go together. One, you've got, what does it mean for the rest of the season? What does it mean for Penn State and Ohio State, which are the two teams that we think might have a chance to beat Michigan, though, after watching Penn State play Ohio State on Saturday?

I'm less and less inclined to believe that Penn State can beat Michigan. But are they under additional pressure? I think it would be convenient for the NCAA and the Big Ten if Penn State and Ohio State were to both beat Michigan, knock them out, and Michigan doesn't make the college football playoff. If only one of them wins and Michigan beats the other one, you've got the possibility of a three-way tie. And then you've got to figure out what happens there.

That would be if they were to lose to Penn State and then beat Ohio State. But I don't know that it matters that much in terms of pressure on those teams. Those teams already are under tremendous pressure to beat Michigan. Ohio State is under tremendous pressure to beat Michigan every day, all the time. So I don't think that changes. The narrative, if they lose, now that the sign stealing operation has been blown up, especially because it's not them playing them the week after the news came out, well, it means they just lost.

So they can't make an excuse. Hey, they had our signs. They just lost if Michigan beats them. And I do think that's quite a distinct possibility, the way Michigan's playing right now, that they can beat them both. So I think that part of it, while we're going to talk a lot about it, we're going to talk about, okay, what would it mean if Penn State beats Michigan? Does that take the NCAA or the Big Ten off the hook? I don't think that changes anything for Penn State. They need to beat Michigan because that is the only way they can stay in the Big Ten title race. Ohio State needs to beat Michigan because they are the Buckeyes,

and they're supposed to beat Michigan. And if they can't beat Michigan, everybody will get very, very mad at them. Just like they did the last two years when they didn't beat Michigan. So that part of it is, I don't think really going to change. Now the MDNYC question, what's the tipping point? This is a little bit different than the great financial crisis because I don't think there were, well, I'm sure there were fans of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. I don't think there were diehard fans who would ride or die with Bear Stearns or with whoever was involved or whoever was going under. I don't think it works the same way. Michigan fans are going to still love Michigan no matter what happens here. Some of them will try to rationalize it.

Some of them will say, hey, guys. But they're going to still love Michigan. That's not going to change. So it doesn't really change in terms of public sentiment. I think the public already says, hey, they got you. This is pretty big. And in terms of what happened, you've still got some people saying, well, everybody does this. No, everybody doesn't do this. Everybody does try to steal signals in one way or another, but there's ways you can do that within the rules and there's going way outside and that's that's where this is and

and you can say well if you get a signal during a game what's the difference the difference between getting a signal during the game and this is you have all of the signals with this so i'll give you an example a team that doesn't huddle that just takes signals from the sidelines let's say you're taking an offensive play. There may be three sets of signals. There's a signal to the lineman that tells them what the protection is. And there's a signal to the backs and receivers that tell them what they're doing and a signal to the quarterback to tell him what the totality of the play is. And if you know all of those things, that's quite a bit of information that you can piece together

in a very short amount of time, and you also can make an adjustment to deal with it. So that is why it's a big deal. It does move betting lines. It does change the competitive equity of the game. Now that everybody knows it, there's time. It's not as easy as saying just change your signals. Like if you're a tempo offense, saying just change your signals is like saying go from speaking English this week to speaking Spanish next week. But if you have a month or so to do

it, you can get it done. So Penn State, Ohio State will have no excuse on that. As to the question about whether the college football playoff committee might somehow take it out on Michigan and rank them lower than they should. One, they shouldn't do that. They need to deal with what they see on the field and that's it. That's not a judgment they should be making. Two, I don't think they're going to do that. I think they will't think they're going to do that. I think they will do what they're supposed to do, and that is watch the games and judge how the team looks on the field. In fact, I suspect Michigan may start number one when the first college football playoff ranking comes out next week.

They don't play this weekend, so they can't lose. I think there's a chance they start out no more. It kind of depends. We'll see what Georgia does against Florida. If Georgia comes out like gangbusters against Florida, then maybe they put Georgia number one. But one of the things about starting in late October as opposed to doing it all season is you don't necessarily deal as much in the preseason hype. And Georgia clearly has not been as dominant as it was in 2021 and 2022 when it won the national title. So I don't know that the committee is going to just automatically throw Georgia in there at number one. Michigan has been the most dominant team. Now, legitimate concern that they have not played anybody of consequence yet.

So that's the issue. So it may be that they say, no, we'd rather go with somebody else. We'd rather go with Ohio state, which has a winning it's Penn state and winning it's Notre Dame, or we'd rather go with Oklahoma, which be Texas. We'll see. They may, they may go best wins period, but the way Michigan is dominated, I think there's a chance that you could see the Wolverines be number one when that first one comes out. And like I said, the committee needs to concentrate on the action on the field. They do not need to worry about all this other stuff. This other stuff will be dealt with probably not in a timely manner this season. And again, if we want to talk about what happens next, I think you can use this to say, you can make some common sense rule changes. For example, the radio in the helmet really takes care of all of this. And they're going to test that out in the bowl season this

year. My guess is they will have a standard going into next season that allows people to do that. And then you won't have to have nine GAs and other players throwing up signs on the field and all the guys with the bed sheets so that you can't see it in the coach's film. That's embarrassing. It's stupid. It's a multi-billion dollar industry. Figure out how to put the radios in the helmets. The other piece of that is this case is a good microcosm of why there needs to be a central governance structure in college football that just governs college football. So that somebody's

in charge and they say, we have a competitive equity issue here. We have to do this. We need to do this now. You have the latitude to do it, commissioner. You can do it. That's not going to happen right now. Not the way things are organized. You have conferences, you have the NCAA, there's too many layers. You can't do anything in an expedient fashion. So that probably is going to change too. I don't know that this will be the thing that spurs the change, but it will probably change at some point over the next few years, especially if they've got to figure out how to share revenues with the athletes, which could be coming sooner rather than later. So we'll see what happens, but this will probably not be something that is repeatable. I imagine the next time there's something like this happening,

the governance structure will look different and they'll be able to handle it differently. Because right now you would want, I think the conference to be able to act and act quickly again, because of the thing this could potentially manipulate the betting line that sort of thing but i just even if they have the latitude to do it which they do i don't know that they're gonna it's a big risk if you're the commissioner of your like tony patini's first year as the big 10 commissioner it'd be a big risk doing that to one of your huge brands right out of the gate. So I don't think they're going to do that. Let us move on from Alex in East Lansing. So I'm

guessing Alex isn't a Michigan fan. Dear Eddie, as a college football sicko, has there ever been a better time to be a hater? Pick any team there's some rival with glaring scandals to hate on. Every Big Ten team versus Michigan science ceiling. Michigan versus Michigan State with more displays of Hitler than points on the scoreboard. The Pac-12 and Oklahoma versus USC and Lincoln Rileys refusal to build a defense. The Big Ten West versus Iowa and the Ferentz nepotism. The SEC versus Texas A&M and Jimbo's incompetence. Texas A&M fans versus Jimbo himself.

The SEC versus a downed Bama. The ACC versus Mario Cristobal's knees. Also the ACC versus Dabo's comeuppance. The hateful eight versus Oklahoma and Texas. College football coaches versus Deion Sanders. This season seems to have the biggest collection of hating I can remember. And I, for one, am loving it. You're right, Alex.

There are so many storylines that if you are someone who gets your joy from hatred during the college football season, this is probably the best year ever for you. I see Joe in the chat with the question, Hitler? Yes. So here's what happened. At the Michigan-Michigan State game, somebody played a YouTube trivia quiz on the Jumbotron. And one of the questions was about the country of Adolf Hitler's birth and had a picture of him. And of course, naturally, people say, like, what the heck is going on here? And you found out that they just grabbed a YouTube clip, they played it on the Jumbotron,

that the person responsible has been suspended. But yeah, that's what happened. But you're right, all these storylines, and I feel like I should kind of rank them. The Michigan one is top of mind and everybody has an opinion on it. And especially like the other teams in the big 10 and you add the SEC teams that are involved. I think that one's probably the biggest one.

I think the Lincoln Riley one is a, is a big one too, because I, I get the feeling that people feel differently about Lincoln Riley at USC than they felt about him in Oklahoma. And I don't just mean Oklahoma fans. When he was Oklahoma's coach, it feels like people, even if they didn't like him, they respected him and felt like, okay, this is a good coach. He's won a bunch of conference titles right out of getting the first head coaching job. But when he went to USC, it seems like all but USC fans really turned on him. He kind of made his heel turn. And now people are really taking a lot of glee in USC losing the past two weeks and looking like a team that is going to take at least two more losses. They do not look like a team that can beat Washington and Oregon, and they still got to play them.

So we'll see. Now, there is news going on with USC. Lincoln Riley has missed practices because he's been very sick. I know people making up all sorts of conspiracy theories about that. I will say, having dealt with a lot of college head coaches, they got to be in pretty bad shape to not go to practice. So I hope Lincoln Riley is going to be okay. Hope he gets better.

But the criticisms he was taking before all this happened, they're legitimate. He does need to feel the more physical team. He does need to figure out how to, how to build a team that can play well on both lines of scrimmage, because if he doesn't, they're going to be in trouble in the Big Ten. The team that they fielded this year, as good as Caleb Williams is, would be very, very unhappy in the 18-team version of the Big Ten, because there are a lot of teams that would be able to push them around. So they got to deal with that. but the Mario Cristobal stuff, because Miami and the NIL stuff, the rest of the ACC, they were once again disliking Miami after years of not really thinking about Miami, so that one's great. That one's fun. The ACC versus Dabo, that one's fun,

because Dabo, he's trying to fight back. He's having a down year. The other schools, they're enjoying this because they've been dominated for years by Clemson. The Ferentz nepotism situation. I'm not sure. I've seen a lot of takes this week that say they're glad Minnesota beat Iowa because it's embarrassing that Iowa kept winning that way and it shouldn't be rewarded. a lot of takes this week that say they're glad Minnesota beat Iowa because it's embarrassing that Iowa kept winning that way and it shouldn't be rewarded. And just, you know, in being

intentionally incompetent on offense should not be rewarded. I don't know. I kind of wanted to see him go 11 and one. I, I, I get why it makes me mad. And I do feel for Iowa fans because I don't think they deserve this. They've been very loyal and they shouldn't have to watch this. But I guess I kind of wanted to see what would happen. So this absolutely is. And of course, Deion Sanders, who was the story of the beginning of the college football season. I'm very curious to see how much attention is paid to Deion these next few weeks because I want to see if they can get bowl eligible.

Once they lost to Stanford, once they blew that lead against Stanford, it seemed to get that window tightened quite a bit. They've got to win two of their last four games here, two of the last five games. I don't know if that's happening, but I am interested in watching it because if they can do that, I think it's a very good coaching job. But yes, so many storylines and it is a lot of fun. It's been a lot of fun to watch you guys make fun of each other in the chat every night when we do the show. You're going at each other. I appreciate that. I definitely love that part of it because it's not real life.

It's just sports. And we can blow off some steam at each other and we can have some fun, but it's not that serious. And I appreciate that. Let's move on to a question from Hudson. This is another good one. Hi, Andy. Do you believe we've shifted away from the time when coaches could comfortably occupy their positions for multiple decades, akin to the extended tenures of coaches like Bobby Bowden and Frank Beamer?

For instance, it's becoming increasingly apparent that Clemson fans are growing increasingly disheartened with Davo Sweeney, to the point where it wouldn't come as a total shock to witness a change in Clemson's head coaching role in the not so distant future if a portion of the fan base's wishes were granted. I understand that the specific circumstances might play a substantial role in this potential development, but I'm generally interested in hearing your take on this evolving coaching landscape. By the way, I'm not a Clemson fan. I'm a Kentucky fan. Go Cats. Well, Hudson, you got Mark Stoops with the best job in the world at Kentucky, but you know what happens when you have the best job in the world at Kentucky. But you know what happens when you have the best job in the world and they pay you $8 million and you don't have to win as many games as Nick Saban does? They still get mad if you don't win as many games as you did the year before. So it's just, it's human nature. And with the money these coaches make, the pressure to win huge every year is not changing. And so Dabo

Sweeney is a good example of this. Dabo went off on his radio show last week saying, hey, maybe we need to knock a few people off this bandwagon. And I don't think that's the right way to approach it either, but it is to the point. And I think Steve Spurrier said this before he left Florida to go to the NFL. He said the, the winds have started to feel like a relief and the losses are just catastrophic. And when everybody's mad at you and you just won 10 games, it's probably time to go.

And I think that is probably a good advice. You talk to coaches agents and they'll tell it, they'll use this term resetting the clock. And it's basically, hey, I've done a good job here, but I need to leave before they start getting mad at me. And then I start over somewhere else. Maybe it's a similar salary, but instead of them being mad at me in a year,

it's going to take them maybe four years to get mad at me. So that's kind of the way things are now. We were just talking about Lincoln Riley. I think that's a really good example of it. In past years, 20 years ago, like when Bob Stoops got the Oklahoma job, which was 25 years ago, you would stay at Oklahoma forever. Why would you ever leave? But Lincoln Riley, I think, looked at it and said, I don't know that this is my forever job, and I don't know that I should stay here forever. Now, I don't know that the grass was necessarily greener at USC, because I think

right now he's facing the same criticism he would have been facing at Oklahoma if this was going on right now. But I do understand the concept of resetting the clock and changing venues because it's going to be hard for a coach to just stay. Nick Saban is a unicorn. It is really hard to succeed at that level over and over and over and over again. Ryan Day has been so good at Ohio State, but if he loses to Michigan this year, I don't care what the scandal is. They're going to be pissed at him. The John Cooper comparisons will come out in force. You can't do that in this day and age. You cannot just be okay. You have to be great. Texas A&M, Jimbo Fisher, prime example. He's not giving them what they paid for. They paid for a coach to lead them to national title contention.

They are not there. It is year six. It's not enough. So I'm trying to think of coaches who are in their jobs now who could conceivably stay there. Like if Kalen DeBoer wanted to stay at Washington forever, as long as he produced the kind of results he's producing now and maybe had the occasional down year, I think that's a place where he could probably stay. I think Dan Lanning at the level he's coaching at, if they're winning at that level consistently, he could stay at Oregon probably for as long as he wants.

But there aren't many places like that. Like, again, Lincoln Riley, I'll go back to him. Let's say he stayed at Oklahoma. Let's say that defense was what it is at USC this year. Would the Oklahoma fans want to be keeping him right now? Or would they be mad at him?

Would they have turned on him by now? It's a legitimate question. So I just don't, I don't see that with Dabo. I, I wonder if he'll do what Bob Stoops did. You know, Bob Stoops retired relatively young. I believe he was 56 when he retired from Oklahoma. Dabo got his job at the same age. I believe that Bob Stoops got the Oklahoma job. I believe Dabo was 38 when he got the head coaching job at Clemson. And that's how old Stoops was when he got the head coaching job at Oklahoma. Could Dabo retire in his mid-50s? Because he's been the one who seems the least willing to adapt.

And so will he decide, okay, I'm going all in on the transfer portal. I'm going to do it the way the other coaches are doing it. Or will he say, you know what? I had a good run the way I did it. I don't want to change. I'll just retire. I think it's a legitimate question. I'm curious to find out what he does because they're not so far gone that they can't get back to being one of the elite programs in college football, but they're going to have to play the game the way everybody else plays the game if they want to do that.

And the question is, is Dabo Sweeney willing to do that? So it's a great question. Next question comes from Mike. Given that Urban Meyer seems highly unlikely, we'll pause here for your laughter because he was never a possibility. Where do you see Michigan State turning for a head coach? Yeah, Urban Meyer was never going to Michigan State.

Sorry to burst your bubble there. But who would they go for? We've talked about this a little bit, but now that some time has passed, I think if I had to say who would Michigan State's number one candidate be, who should they be targeting most furiously? I'd say Lance Leipold at Kansas. Midwestern guy. Won six national titles in D3 at Wisconsin-Whitewater. Wins everywhere he goes. Took over the biggest dumpster fire in college football. Turned it into a competitive operation within two years. I don't know how to break this to you guys. Michigan State ain't good right now. Michigan State needs a lot of work, but it is long,

long way from being as bad as Kansas was when Lance Leipold took over. So Big Ten money, they saved. I still think they may have to pay Mel Tucker or something, but probably not the entire buyout. So they saved some money there. That would be the guy I would go after if I were them. If he says no, I would call Jonathan Smith at Oregon State. Jonathan Smith's an interesting person in the coaching carousel because usually when a guy is at his alma mater and having success, you don't think, Hey, that's somebody we could go get. And I think if the PAC 12 had stayed together, that would have been a little trickier. But if you're Jonathan Smith and you don't know what your next conference home is yet at Oregon State,

you're looking around because this guy's done a great, great job. He took over a tough situation right after Gary Anderson resigned, and he had them winning 10 games last year. They are on pace for double-digit wins again this year. They are excellent on both lines of scrimmage. Jonathan Smith is somebody that any Power Five school that has an opening should look at. And I think if you are in limbo like him,

or if you're in the Big 12, and some Big 10 team wants to throw a bunch of money at you, you are probably going to listen. So that would be another one I'd call. Mike Elko at Duke's done a great job. I think either he will take a bigger job if one such job opens this offseason or hang out and wait for that bigger job to open because he's the one that everybody wants right now. And I think he can get a national title contender type job if you do the job correctly.

Like if A&M opened up, that's one that Mike Elko could be a candidate for. Chris Kleiman at Kansas State. I think he's the one that you could call one national titles at North Dakota State. Has been pretty adaptable at Kansas State. But I will say this about Chris Kleiman. I'm not sure if I were Chris Kleiman that I would want to go anywhere right now because he is a very intriguing young freshman quarterback named Avery Johnson.

You probably watched him play a little bit against TCU last weekend. When you got a QB, and it's a potentially special one, don't be so quick to go anywhere. Now, I know what you're saying. You could pull a Lincoln Riley and bring him with. Avery Johnson is from Kansas.

He may not be movable. He may be rooted there in Manhattan. So if you're Chris Kleiman, you take that into account because when you have a chance to have that special quarterback, you want to make sure that you get to coach him. Another guy in the assistant ranks that I think would be interesting is Alex Atkins. He's the OC at Florida State. Did the impossible, fixing Florida State's offensive line.

He's a future head coach. It's not a matter of if, but when. The question is, are they ready to hire him at this level? I don't know if that's necessarily the case. The other interesting piece of this, and we'll go back to what Chris Ballas said earlier, where this may be Jim Harbaugh's last year at Michigan. The question is, with this investigation, if he were to leave, let's say he were to get the Chargers job or the Bears job and leave, could you promote from within? Could you promote Sharon Moore? Could you promote Mike Hart, given what's happened at Michigan?

I think what happens in this investigation will help determine that. I don't know that it necessarily precludes them from getting a job anywhere else. It just may be that Michigan wants to make a clean break if that is the issue. If the NCAA is like, well, you're going to have to sacrifice some coaches, perhaps they just want to make a clean break. And that's when things get really interesting because a job like that, I mentioned Mike Elko would probably hang out if nothing big open. That's a job he'd probably want. That's a job that, oh, I don't know, Washington's Kalen DeBoer might want. And I said a while ago,

them moving to the Big Ten, Washington moving to the Big Ten, probably make sure Kayla DeBoer stays at Washington. But if Michigan opens, that's a job everybody wants. So that's a different situation. We'll have to watch that one. That's one to pay attention to because I don't know that it happens during the regular coaching carousel. If Jim Harbaugh were to get an NFL job, remember, he also wants to coach this team for as long as it can go.

And this team can go a long, long way. And then the NFL jobs, they don't necessarily open till January. Remember, the NFL regular season doesn't end until January. So there's a possibility that none of that happens during the usual coaching carousel time. But if that one were to open, it would be a big one and a lot of people would want it. Our last question comes from Ben. Long time listener here. My question is, what are your thoughts on the future of the Sunbelt?

The meteorites deal for the Sunbelt is locked through 2031 with a smaller payout than the American Conference. Will the Sun Belt be a potential victim with any more realignment or is it stable enough to make it another decade in its current state? Also, do you see the Sun Belt

becoming the most watched or followed G5 league post Pac-12 breakup? I think the Sun Belt ceiling is yet to be reached and the top half of the league might become the biggest names in the G5.

Go Eagles and hail Southern hashtag fun belt. Ben, I am also bullish on the Sunbelt. I realized that the money's slightly less than, than what the American makes. But the thing is the Sunbelt did the wise thing of coalescing around schools that care very deeply about football. The money is different for TV, but it is not so much different

that having a very passionate group of season ticket holders and a passionate donor base can't help make up the gap. And I think the schools that the Sunbelt has added over the last few years, including yours, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, James Madison. These are schools that are good at football historically, were very good at the FCS level, and came up and were good almost immediately. Coastal Carolina is another example of this. They care. And then you've got Louisiana Lafayette that cares very deeply.

Southern Miss cares about football. That's what matters. Troy has been good at the Division I AA level, because that's what it was called back then, and since they've been in the FBS. I tend to agree with you that it could become the most watched because, one, the rivalries are going to be great. And, two, I think the football is going

to be very good. It's a good recruiting base in the South. And it's one of those places where you could get some bounce backs from the power five, get those guys out of the transfer portal if they're not happy where they are. Or you're the one who takes the guys out of high school and they develop for a year or two, they blow up at your, at your place and then get pulled up to the sec or the ACC. But I love the lineup. The Sunbelt has, I get very excited about what that, what that could be.

Now, one particular team is getting screwed right now. That's James Madison. The Dukes are currently undefeated. They're still not allowed to play in a bowl game or any kind of postseason game this year, because they're still transitioning to the play in a bowl game or any kind of postseason game this year because they're still transitioning to the FBS. Now, the reason they have this rule is so teams can get properly resourced to be competitive

in their new league. So they don't have one good senior class. They bump up so they can play in a bowl game and then bump back down to FCS. That's not what's going on here. James Madison was great in the FCS. They moved to the FBS and they're still great. They're kicking ass right now. So you can't say if you're the NCAA, well, we need to make sure they have the proper

resources. No, we know they do because they're kicking the crap out of the teams they play. We already know that. I like that the Virginia State legislator going in hard on the NCAA saying, you better fix this. You better give them a waiver. I don't know if they're going to, but they're starting to rattle their swords at the Virginia Statehouse. And I, for one, hope they keep doing that. I hope they keep the pressure on because it's silly. This team's been great. The rule is to make sure that people don't just go willy-nilly into the FBS.

This is not a willy-nilly situation. They would not be this good if it were. So yeah, let them play in the postseason. Let them play. They deserve it. Any team that can come up and just start winning like this at this level, they deserve it. That's all there is to it. It's that simple. But yes, as far as the future of the Sun Belt, the Fun Belt is going to be the league, I think, especially on the weeknights, that's going to really entertain us. The rivalries are going to be great. The passion is incredible because we we've seen this the last few years.

Louisiana Lafayette. Appalachian State, Coastal Carolina, those games have been bangers and. Now you got James Madison. Now you got Marshall. Those are programs that have always loved football always cared about football and so they are going to play great games they are going to become rivals and it'll be fun to see who like where the rivalries pop up because the Appalachian coastal rivalry was one that sort of just sprang up from the ground and when they play those games are great so very excited about the future of the

Sun Belt. Think it's going to be fine. Don't know that it's going to get picked apart necessarily because I don't know how much movement there's going to be at the top other than maybe teams at the very top coalescing into their own thing. And that doesn't necessarily mean the Sun Belt gets torn apart. It might mean somebody comes down. But we're going to have to wait and see, probably till these next round of TV contracts run out to figure out what's going to happen there. But yeah, I I'm, I'm here for those fun belt games. Love those games, Ben.

I love your questions. Love answering those questions because it is you guys who drive this show. And I love the way you think about college football. You love it just as much as me. And it's, it's awesome. It's awesome to have a community of people who love this sport. So thank you for that. Thank you for joining. What a week. This is crazy. Thursday show. We got Missouri coach Eli Drinkwitz joining us. We also have Yogi Roth from the Pac-12 Network help get us ready for Oregon and Utah and help try to explain what the heck is going on at USC. It's going to be a lot of fun. I'll talk to you tomorrow.