Andy & Ari On3 - Does North Carolina want out of the ACC too? | Is Florida State reloaded to win the ACC again?

Episode Date: May 14, 2024

Andy is on the scene at the ACC meetings in Amelia Island, Fla., and the scene is… weird.(0:00-3:05) Intro - Live from ACC Spring Meetings!(3:06-9:41) Kickoff Times Announced(9:42-23:12) North Carolina, Board of Trustees Update(23:13-48:40) Florida State Update with Ira Schoffel(48:41-53:44) NFL vs CFP Games on TV(53:45-1:02:33) NCAA president speaks on House Settlement(1:02:34-1:03:09) ConclusionTwo ACC schools (Florida State and Clemson) are suing the conference, and the conference is suing those schools back. And everyone is meeting ahead of a potentially exciting 2024 football season because no one can do anything about the court cases right now.Meanwhile, the board of trustees at North Carolina made a very public statement that the Tar Heels need to consider membership in another conference. Unlike at Clemson and Florida State, where the president and athletic director were very much on board with the anti-ACC sentiment, the trustees spent part of their meeting Monday criticizing athletic director Bubba Cunningham, who was headed to the meeting in Florida when they met. Cunningham, at least publicly, has been supportive of the ACC.Also, NCAA president Charlie Baker met with ACC ADs and coaches Monday to brief them on some of the big changes heading their way. The NCAA is negotiating a settlement in a class action lawsuit (House v. NCAA) that likely will change the business model for college sports. And Baker is talking like a person who wants that multi-billion dollar settlement done so the schools can start preparing for the future.Later, Andy and Ira Schoffel of On3’s Warchant discuss Florida State’s position in the ACC right now as the Seminoles sue the league in Florida and the league sues the Seminoles in North Carolina. Plus, Andy and Ira discuss what Florida State will look like on the football field this year after losing some very important players to the NFL. Want to watch the show instead? Join us LIVE from 8-9 am et on YouTube! https://youtube.com/live/-a0Qt7BCEt0

Welcome to Andy Staples on three high from Amelia Island, Florida State suing the ACC in Florida, the ACC suing Florida State in North Carolina, Clemson suing the ACC in South Carolina, and the ACC suing Clemson in North Carolina. So you've got all those lawsuits. You also have drama surrounding North Carolina happening as the meetings are happening, but back in North Carolina. And I think that may have been by design as well. So we're going to talk about what's going on with the Tar Heels, what's going on with the Seminoles, what's going on with the Tigers and what that all means for the ACC. And oh, by the way, Charlie Baker, the president of the NCAA came to talk to the coaches and the ADs of the ACC

gave him a little, given, given the applause at the end, it sounded like a little pep talk, but he came and talked to us. So we're going to have a little bit from Charlie Baker as well later in the show, but it's, it's a fascinating situation. It's, it's interesting because you, I think you'd assume that everybody be at each other's throats and people would be really awkward around one another. Not. These guys have to meet a lot. And so if you're the Florida State folks, if you're the Clemson folks, if you're the ACC folks, Boston College, Wake Forest, you're used to this. You've been dealing with this now for over a year, really. And so it's interesting to watch them joke around with one another

when they're around each other and realize, oh, wait, these people are kind of at each other's throats, if we really think about this. But there was a piece of movement. It wasn't movement, really. Just something that happened in a board meeting at North Carolina on Monday that could impact all of this as we go forward. And again, what the NCAA president was talking about will impact all this. Nothing's set. And this is what I keep reminding people. We keep talking about what the playoffs are going to look like in 2026. What will regular season schedules look like in certain conferences?

Don't worry about that. There's some stuff that's got to get figured out first that will determine the membership of all these conferences. And remember, this time last year, we still thought the Pac-12 was going to make it. We still thought the Pac-12 was going to make a TV deal and wasn't going to fall apart. So there's more change to come. We don't exactly know how that's going to make a TV deal, and wasn't going to fall apart. So there's more change to come. We don't exactly know how that's going to manifest itself, but there's more coming. Before we get to that, before we get to what happened with North Carolina and what was so interesting, and then we're also going to talk to Irish O'Fell

of War Chant about Florida State, about where they're at in terms of them and the ACC, but also in terms of the Seminoles on the field because they're planning for a pretty exciting season. Let's talk about some kickoff times. We have actual kickoff times. This is that time of year. So the networks that broadcast the Big Ten games held their draft last week. And they basically picked, like Fox says, we're taking Michigan, Ohio State. We're going to put it in noon on that Saturday. Of course they are, but they've done that. And so now we have a better idea of when things are going to be.

And they're starting to roll these out just to, and they roll it, they roll it out at a trickle to get us excited about this. And I, it's pretty exciting. We saw a couple of times announced on Monday. We're going to see more as we go. The SEC usually holds off until they have their spring meeting in Destin, Florida, right after Memorial Day. So I would imagine a couple of weeks we're going to get a bunch of SEC kickoff times. We got a couple of kickoff times at Big Ten stadiums on Monday, both involving non-conference games, both involving games.

I guarantee you want to watch first one week to Colorado at Nebraska. Now we all watched this game last year in Boulder. Remember Nebraska horrific turnover issues at the end of the first half, Colorado just torched them the rest of the way. Uh, it was full on coach prime mania at that point. Then you go, you know, that, that led into the week of the Colorado State game where game day and big noon kickoff were at Colorado in Boulder. That game, that Colorado State, Colorado game that kicked off at 10 30 PM Eastern time and drew 10 million people. And it was an overtime game. Very exciting. So that's the game. everyone has to see this is

this is the remember coach prime colorado opened with tcu last year so that was big time it was a noon eastern game it was on fox they start with north dakota state this year and we are going to get to see that one too because that that one's going to be played in prime time so we'll get to watch that one but it's this is is probably not the North Dakota state of five years ago when they were winning the FCS every single year, they're still good, but I don't think you're going to go into that game thinking that North Dakota state is going to be favored in that game. So like Colorado is supposed to win that game. Nebraska is playing UTEP. They're supposed to win that game. So this will be the first one where it's a question. We don't know what's going to happen and what will emerge from this game in

Lincoln. 7.30 p.m. Eastern time on NBC. So this is NBC, which is now broadcasting Big Ten games. They were doing it last year too, but their inventory for last year's big 10 games were not great. It's better now. As you see, they're going to get a monster game with coach prime Matt rule. Everybody's very excited about what he's doing. Dylan Ryola. We'll have probably seen him play one game at that point. That's going to be a big one. The following week, Alabama goes to camp Randall, Alabama at Wisconsin. That's big noon kickoff. Fox is like, we'll take that one. The following week, Alabama goes to Camp Randall, Alabama at Wisconsin. That's big noon kickoff. Fox is like, we'll take that one. We'll take Alabama any chance we can get. That's going to be noon Eastern, 11 a.m. Central time. So 11 a.m. local in Madison, 11 a.m. local in Tuscaloosa. And it's interesting with the SEC folks, because I think they're going

to have to get used to more good noon games as well, because ESPN is going to want to counter program the really good noon games that Fox has on another, they're not gonna put their best games there because they are going to want you to watch at three 30 Eastern time and at seven and eight Eastern time for those good sec games. But they're not going to just leave that real estate alone. And I'll say one of the things about Fox moving that big game to noon, it's biggest game to noon, is it has really improved the rest of the day because it used to drive me nuts when you'd have college game day. And I talked about this, I was on RJ Young show, which is a Fox show. And so I'm talking about ESPN on a Fox show.

And I felt a little bad about that, but not really. But it always used to drive me crazy because you'd have college game day. They're at the site of the most exciting game of the week. Everybody's going nuts. Lee Corso puts the mascot head on. Or boo. Like it is big time energy. Everybody going crazy.

And then we take you to Ryan field at Northwestern for Illinois at Northwestern. And it is empty and it is quiet. And you can hear individual people speaking in the stands like that drove me nuts. So I did appreciate when Fox moved that big game to noon, you saw ESPN try to counter program with some better SEC and ACC games where they, you know, when they had a good big 12 game and try to put that there. So I hope that's what

continues to happen. I hope they don't just say, look, Fox, you've got some really good games there at noon. We're going to leave that alone. You do your thing. Let's have some options here and not too many. Don't put all of the good games on at the same time. Cause that was the problem before when they try to do them all at 3 30 p.m eastern or they try to do them all at eight o'clock eastern time but spread it out a little bit spread the wealth i like it i'm very excited about both those games can't wait to watch cody belair remember told you during our big 10 ceiling floor discussion he thinks that alabama's right for for an upset in that wisconsin game i'm not so sure about that. We're supposed to have Luke Fickle on soon. I don't know that I'm going to ask him, hey, you're going to beat Alabama? Because I don't think he's going to

answer that question in any sort of satisfactory way. But we will ask him about that game and what it means for them, because I am fascinated by Wisconsin as they evolve in year two under Luke Fickle. We saw some big changes there. It didn't go the way Luke Fickle had hoped. And it looked, you know, kind of more like his first season at Cincinnati, though it wasn't that. He inherited a pretty bad roster at Cincinnati,

went four and eight. But to the Wisconsin fans, what they did last year probably felt like four and eight. They're like, no, no, no, we fired Paul Crist. It's supposed to get better. It didn't really get better. Like when Tana Mordecai got hurt, they were not, not what you wanted them to be. So Tyler Van Dyke comes in from Miami, that offense, I would assume we'll run a little bit better if he can stay healthy, but that'll be a very tough challenge. Kalen DeBoer bringing Alabama

in and it, you know, it'll be the first big game for Alabama as well under Kalen DeBoer. So it's going to be very exciting to see those games. All right. Speaking of excitement, let us get into this North Carolina entry, because like I said, I'm at the ACC meetings in Amelia Island. And one of the kind of big mysteries of all this is we know what Florida state wants to do. We know what Clemson wants to do. They have sued the ACC. They want out. They want to try to get into the big 10 of the SEC. They want to close the revenue gap. They've said this over and over one more overtly. That's Florida state one more quietly. That's Clemson, but we know what they want to do. The one that feels like kind of the linchpin of all

this is North Carolina. North Carolina is one of those. If you talk to the sec people going back years, like when they were taking Texas A&M in Missouri, when they were planning out the SEC network, North Carolina was kind of always the one that was the one they really wanted. They wanted to add the state of North Carolina, the footprint, the brand of the University of North Carolina is big, even though their football is not as good as other schools. And like right now, their football is not as good as nc state's football but the brand of unc is what everybody wants the big 10 would like it too the longtime commissioner big 10 jim delaney north carolina grad and so you kept thinking okay where's north carolina in all this how do they feel about all this but the other piece of of it is North Carolina politically has to tread carefully

here. They've already been attached to NC State by their state legislature. They also are a charter member of the ACC. They've been entwined politically with the ACC. And I would say that other members of the ACC would argue that may be favored a little much by the ACC over the years and so it is very delicate for them but like Ric Flair in our comments and I listen Ric I appreciate it I heard you visited uh my town of Gainesville the other day I don't know that that went as well as everybody had hoped but uh you do have some good points about North Carolina here, if it is indeed you, Rick Flair, many-time world champion, nature boy, jet flying, limousine riding, kiss stealing, son of a gun. All right. Does UNC want to keep up financially? Does UNC want to continue to support its thriving

women's and non-revenue generating sports? If so, the answer is so clear, even Andy Staples can see it. Rick is referring to the title of this show. Does North Carolina want out of the ACC too? And I think the answer is a little complicated. Because I think there are a lot of people at North Carolina who do want out of the ACC because they realize it is possible to jump into the Big Ten or the SEC. North Carolina is the one, if it got free, if they said, hand up, we're a free agent, let's go, they could go to

either one. The Big Ten or the SEC would take them. And with Florida State and Clemson, you're not entirely sure. You think probably, yeah, one of them is going to take those guys with North Carolina. There is no doubt. So here's what happened. If North Carolina did say we're, we're out as I think that turns the tide in all of these lawsuits. Cause the other piece of this is remember Florida state sued in Florida, Clemson sued in South Carolina, the ACC then sues both those entities in North Carolina where the ACC is based. Well, if North Carolina sues the ACC in North Carolina, then all of a sudden your home court advantage for the ACC sort of disappears because it's also North Carolina's home court.

But I don't think North Carolina wants to take that step. I think they would like to leave that fight to Florida State and Clemson, but their board of trustees is getting a little antsy. You can tell. So here's what happened on Monday. So Bubba Cunningham, the North Carolina athletic director, is heading down to Amelia Island, Florida. He's coming down to talk to all the other ADs, to all the other coaches. He's supposed to be back in Chapel Hill on Thursday. There is a full Board of Trustees meeting on Thursday. They're supposed to have a closed session. He's supposed to talk to them. Well, during a special meeting on Monday, the Board of Trustees says, we need an audit of the

athletic department, and we need to audit of the athletic department and we need to talk to Bubba Cunningham in closed session about the finances of the athletic department, because there's a deficit and it needs to be addressed. But the first budget that we saw was a $17 million deficit and a hundred million dollar cumulative deficit in the coming years with no plan to address that, to mitigate that. So I don't want anyone to think we're talking in code. There are real issues here, a real concern that one of our most valuable assets and something that really generates revenue is not being managed properly. So that is the need for the question and answer, and that is the need for the audit.

So that's trustee Jen Evans. So you heard what she said, $17 million deficit this year and accumulated deficits up to a hundred million dollars over the next few years from the athletic department. There's a subtext to this, but let's, let's hear from the board chair, John Pryor. I think, you know, I have, uh, I have tried to get more information from athletics and have had a couple of meetings, um, with the athletic director and candidly, I end up with more concern and more questions having done that in good conscience. I can't approve the budget that includes athletics in it. And I'm just going to say, I'm going to vote no, if that is what we have to do today.

And I really don't see why we can't have an extended discussion on this, because I think it is imperative for the board to hear all of this in closed session. I don't think people understand the issue. I don't think they understand the level of bad data that has been provided. And I think it is incumbent on us to get it right, not just to get it done in a hurry because there's a deadline. Now, look, the Zoom of the Board of Trustees special meeting in North Carolina probably doesn't convey the vitriol, like what that actually means. That's the chair of the Board of Trustees. Now, he's attacked Bubba Cunningham before. He did it about three months ago. But that is him really going in on Bubba Cunningham. And that's where this fight is happening. And so Bubba is at the spring meetings. We ask him questions about this stuff.

He said no comment. He said, I haven't heard. I don't know exactly what's going on. And at that point, he'd been in meetings. This was all going on concurrently. And so that may be true. And also, he's going back there Thursday, so he's going to talk to them. So he's got to deal with that. But this is definitely a faction going after the AD who it believes has been too chummy with the ACC

and has not agitated enough or something different. Now, Ralph Meekins, who's another trustee, he points out that Bubba Cunningham said all along, these deficits were going to happen. I've been meeting. We just had a meeting last week at the Rams Club. And our athletic director gave us a one-hour presentation about where we are in our budget. And most of those shortfalls, as we all know, came from the pandemic. So what he's saying is, look, Bubba told us this was all going to happen. You knew this.

Why are you doing this now? Why this performative effort in a public meeting? You could have done this behind closed doors on Thursday. Why this now? So Brian Murphy, who covers Research Triangle Sports for WRAL, he talked to some folks and he talked to one of the trustees, Dave Bullock, who's a former chair, talked to Dave Bullock after the meeting. And you see where they're really going with this. So what they're saying is there's a deficit. You're running a deficit with $134 million budget. Why are you running a deficit? Why can't you cover your budget?

There's a way to cover your budget. You could be in a league that pays you $40 million more a year. You could be in the big 10 of the SEC. That's what they're getting at. That's the end game here. So Dave Bullock tells Brian Murphy, it's not something that you can change with a snap of a finger. It's something we've got to be cognizant of. We can't sit back and cross our fingers and pray for pennies from heaven and thinking everything is going to quote unquote work out. We have to actively pursue what's in the best interest of Carolina athletics. Murphy asked Bullock, is he advocating to join another conference? Bullock tells Murphy, I am advocating for that. That's what we need to do. We need to do everything we can to get there.

Or the alternative is the ACC is going to have to reconstruct itself. I think all options are on the table. Okay. So this is more, more close to what Florida state was doing. Remember August of last year, I came on and like Florida state had this board meeting and it was wild, but it was a little bit different because the president was in that meeting. The athletic director was in that meeting. The board of trustees, the president, the AD were all on the same page. They were all singing from the same handle and all of them wanted to get the hell out of the ACC. North Carolina clearly is not all on the same page

because the AD is getting attacked by various trustees, defended by other trustees. This one is going to get really interesting because if this power struggle ends with Bubba Cunningham either coming out publicly and saying, we got to get out of here or losing a power struggle and the people who win it say, we got to get out of here. I think that speeds things along.

I think that changes the math on this. We know North Carolina, if Clemson and Florida State could get out, would probably get out too. But they've been very politically savvy about all this. They've tried really hard to stay neutral, keep everybody happy. JW Noel says, fire Bubba and Boo. They're more loyal to the acc they are their own universities i don't know if that's necessarily true i just think they're trying to thread a needle here boo corgan is the athletic director north carolina state i think they're trying to thread a needle

here i think that's what's going on but again big picture do not assume that any of this is done, that this is settled, that once the Big Ten took the teams it took, the Big 12 took the teams it took, the ACC grabbed Cal and SMU and Stanford. Oh, by the way, it's very weird to see the Cal and SMU and Stanford people. I was talking to Justin Wilcox, the Cal coach yesterday, and I'm like, how strange is this? It is surreal because he's sitting there across the table from Duke and North Carolina and Virginia. But that's how weird all this is. It's not done. It is not done.

We just don't know exactly how it ends. I keep saying I think the ACC will come up with a number that if a school wants to leave, it can pay and it can get out. The deal is, remember, the TV rights allegedly attached through the grant of rights to the ACC through the length of this contract with ESPN, which goes till 2036. But according to at least one clause in one of Florida State's lawsuits, ESPN has to decide early next year whether they want to continue that on the back half of that contract, because it could end much earlier if they want it to. So all of this is up in the air. But I do think the ACC probably has a lot more to lose than Florida State, than Clemson, than if North Carolina jumps on board. Because the worst case scenario for all of those schools is they stay in the ACC until 2036. Not all what they want. As you saw with the North Carolina folks,

they don't want to run those deficits. They want that money. But it's not the end of the world. You can continue on. If the ACC were to lose that trial, the ACC cannot continue on. It would break apart immediately. So that is where the incentive comes from. And I think the incentive grows stronger to figure that out if North Carolina, if someone in charge, if their board of trustees just decides, hey, we've decided we're out. It certainly sounds like there's some people there who are pretty powerful agitating that way. And then there are other people on North Carolina's campus who don't want to be as overt as Florida State has been. It's going to be wild. We're going to find out more about this.

But right now, let's talk about it through the lens of one of the schools that's been fighting this fight for about a year. And they've already filed their lawsuit. And they've been sued. And they're trying to get out. And oh, by the the way they won the league last year but didn't make the playoff we're talking about all that with irish ophel from war chant right now all right we were reminiscing about two years ago in in that very spot inside that window in there jack Swarbrick staying there and saying we're about to have a two Sun solar system with the SEC and the Big Ten

and their gravitational pulls and everybody's like yeah yeah whatever you know what he was talking about I think so and I imagine the AD at Notre Dame at the time would know these things but like how strange is it to think that you know we've been coming to this thing for years but now we sit here florida state is suing the acc the acc is suing florida state clemson is suing the acc the acc is suing clemson smu is here cal is here stanford is here. Jim Collison, It's wild. Yeah, it's wild. I mean, you think about just from where we were a year ago, because these meetings have been kind of, I think, as you said, you know, things have been trending, probably not in a great direction for the ACC for several years. And you kind of wondered, okay, would the ACC network save them? Would, would you know, what could say or

realignment? What could save the ACC and a year ago we're here and um never could have imagined what would happen in the next 12 months because right now you're sitting here and they're all suing each other well and I was thinking about this as I was coming here you know I think if you'd asked me a year ago would there be no Pac-12 in a year I still thought even at this point even in May of last year, they'll figure it out. They always figure it out. And then, no. And now, Oregon and Washington end up moving to the Big Ten. You've got Cal and Stanford here in the ACC. And the school you cover, Florida State, is in this... Think about what's happened at florida state in a year you've had all the drama

with the acc you've had a 13 and 0 acc championship season where they are left out of a 14 playoff which sort of underscored everything they've been saying all along and so how to like if you are michael alford the ad at florida state how do you approach this meeting with all these guys and i realize he's been meeting with people from the acc for all this time but like how do you handle the big picture stuff yeah i think that's the challenge with um in a lot of ways because you have you do have the the normal operating business that has to take place and like you know just i was thinking about um just you know things like personal re interactions you know when when mike martin senior florida state's legendary baseball coach um passed away a few

months ago you know jim phillips the commissioner comes to the funeral and yeah he's got a you know he and michael offered or giving each other hugs and you know you've got former presidents and current presidents of the university there and so these are people they have to work together but then they're also having this, this really kind of epic battle behind the scenes. And I guess what it comes down to is, I don't know that I believe the core system is going to ultimately settle all of this. I do think at some point, they're going to have to kind of find some sort of middle ground. I don't think they want the core system. I think ultimately, if that, it comes to that somebody is having a very bad next few years

going for somebody. Yeah. And the process would take a long time. But so but that process is playing out. Yeah. And it almost has to be seen as kind of a compartmentalized, where when they're at these meetings, they have to conduct the normal business that they're conducting, and kind of put that on the background. But it also looms over everything because everybody knows Florida State and Clemson are the two biggest football powers in this conference, and they both are actively trying to leave. Right. And they've got to play a football season in this conference that's coming up that they are going to be in this conference. We have a schedule like it's not one of those things that can change at this point. That's the part that's amazing to me is they've gotten this far and now it looks like

the cases are going to continue for Florida State in North Carolina, the one the ACC filed, and in Florida, the one Florida State filed, which we didn't know when they were both filed. We thought maybe that somebody would rule that, hey, we're going to you're going to do this in this other state or but no, the Florida court has said no, we think that the ACC was venue shopping. So we're going to have this trial here. And the North Carolina court said, No, no, we're going to have this trial here. And you have all these decisions along the way where you can see why both sides would kind of want it in their state. Yeah. Yeah. He's got a home field advantage. Yeah. And then you have the North Carolina lawsuit or the ACC's lawsuit in North Carolina. The judge there is not real, is not really pushing hard for them to reveal the ESPN contract. Right. Some of these preliminary rulings, whereas the judge in South Carolina where Clemson's suing the ACC is like, yeah,

you need to produce the ESPN contract. And Florida's, the judge in South Carolina where Clemson's suing the ACC is like yeah you need to produce the ESPN contract in Florida's uh the judge in the Florida State's case in Tallahassee is probably heading in the same direction so you see where venue does play a part well and it's good it gets very juicy if that ESPN contract gets revealed because there are details in it like Florida State drops this little grenade in its original lawsuit that says, you know, there's a period in 2025, in February 2025, where ESPN has to opt in or opt out of the remainder of the ACC deal. Like that's a monumental thing that we still, other than them putting it, we haven't actually seen where that is in the contract. Yeah, that's funny because like you said, everybody still has to report it as FSU is alleging because, again, they're citing the contract that nobody else has seen. I assume they're telling the truth because…

Why would you lie about that? And where would you come up with the specifics? Because they said specifically that the deadline was actually earlier, but then the ACC extended it. Because as you said, we all thought the ESPN contract went till 2036, when the grant of rights extends to and apparently it doesn't, or at least that's what FSU is alleging. And we'll have to see. Yeah. And we don't know what's going to happen here. We talked about this quite a bit off air. You know, the timeline of this

is very difficult to predict just because you're dealing with three lawsuits, well well four lawsuits total in three different states and you don't know where it's going to go and then you don't know what the big ten will do what the sec will do what anybody will do if say the acc were to come with a number and say would you like to get out okay write us a check for this yeah and you know these meetings used to be we used to come to these meetings to find out where the championship games are going to be held or where the overtime rule is going to be or things like that.

Now it's obviously a totally different discussion. But yeah, the timeline is impossible to know. I still feel like it's going to be sooner than later just because nobody's going to want this to drag on. And like you said, it's almost a game of chicken. Nobody's going want this to drag on and and like you said it's almost a game of chicken nobody's gonna want to lose this battle so at some point you feel like they'd have to come over well and the reason i keep saying i think the acc will eventually find a number that works it's just i'm just deducing logically like if florida state and Clemson lose their lawsuits, they have to stay in the ACC till

at the latest 2036. That's not what they want, but it's probably also not the end of the world. If the ACC were to lose in any of these cases, it all disintegrates immediately. So like they're, they have much more to lose than Florida State and Clemson do in this situation. Yeah, no, I think you're right. And they also, I think, you know, ESPN probably has more chips to play. like they're they have much more to lose than forcing clemson to do in this situation yeah and i think you're right and they also i think you know espn probably has more chips to play yes and they you know they espn's kind of a partner with the acc and all this even though they're not named in the lawsuits right um but in terms of you know they espn can kind of move chips around they can

kind of have a say in how and ultimately how it's going to affect their bottom line and they can offer inducements to these schools because like you said you know these other schools in the conference they don't want to be left high and dry so it comes down to okay what can the acc and espn come up with to make it worth their while to say okay we'll left florida state and clemson leave for x amount of dollars yeah uh and that that part is going to be uh probably where it all comes down to. Yeah, and you said sooner rather than later, and I keep thinking it's crazy because all of this stuff is interconnected, whether we notice it or not,

but like this House versus the NCAA case that we keep talking about on the show, and I keep saying I know it's kind of a boring topic, but I promise you it affects everything. Like when they come up with a settlement for that, that sort of defines who's at the top group of college football and you got to make sure the acc wants to be in that that which i think they do i think the acc and the big 12 both are going to opt into that but then but will every single school right it's it we don't know we have no idea because we don't even know what the number is, the dollar figure is. So that's the craziest thing. I like, I keep saying, I

think if, if Florida State and Clemson were to get out, you're probably talking about 2026, playing somewhere else, wherever that is. And that's not far away. Jim Collison, Yeah. And I think there, I think there are people at Florida State that would love it to happen in 2025. Because again, I think it's just a look at these numbers. And again, you know, you, as you said, we've been coming to this meeting for a long time. And 10 years ago, or 12 years ago, when John Swofford was kind of talking about the revenue gap back then. Yeah. You know, it was maybe four or five, $6 million, $7 million a year. You have a couple good donors and you take care of it up. But when you start about now, and these

projections, now we're talking about 40 $50 million a year. So from a standpoint of like, as you said, it seems like it's not that far away. But if you were a school, potentially making 40 or $50 million less than your rivals. Yeah, it feels like two years, one year eternity, three years. Yeah yeah three years doesn't that feels like all till the end of time basically so yeah that's and that's the part the other part of it as you mentioned they're the two powers for Satan Clemson going into this season they're still the two powers like if you had to handicap who do you think is going to be the in the ACC championship

game one or both of those probably. Yeah, yeah. No, they definitely could be there without question. And really that's kind of the challenge I think for Jim Phillips. You think about the end of the football season where Florida State's winning the ACC championship and he's got to hand the ACC championship trophy to Mike Norvell. At a time where you know things are going in the wrong directions between the teams in the conference, thing with clemson if dabba wins a national championship

or or or gets his team to acc title or playoff berth you know the conference has to celebrate them and do everything in their power to help them yeah because they represent the conference but in the in the in the meantime you're suing each other it's just i know strange well i i feel bad for jim phillips and all this and i've been very critical of like his decision on the the alliance a few years ago but i also think he gets a lot of heat for stuff that he had nothing to do with he inherited when he took the job and and it was sort of the ball was rolling in that direction and now he's trying to and you know indiana jones doesn't turn around and try to stop the boulder he keeps running so that's that's the problem.

But, yeah, it is going to be a very strange season. But let's talk about Florida State this coming season because we haven't gotten to check in on the Seminoles since spring practice. And, you know, we saw D.J. before spring practice started. And I was surprised going up there and talking to him and talking to players around there that how quickly he meshed with everybody there. When you think about, oh, this guy used to be your chief rival's quarterback. Well, the cool thing about him. Chief conference rival, I'm sorry.

Right, right, right. Well, in the interview you did with him, I thought it came across. He is a unique human being, right? I mean, he's so mature, so self-aware, so smart. And he didn't go in trying to act like he is that you know that guy you know he he wanted to embrace what they do and enjoying what florida state's doing and i think that was really i thought it was very interesting something he said and and mike norvell has has confirmed all this like he went to the official

visit to florida state without an offer which in the transfer portal era for a quarterback who's been a starter at two power conference schools like that's almost unheard of like you you get the offer and then you go dj almost kind of bet on himself in that situation because remember cam ward was still out there and what's interesting about that to me and this isn't a slight on cam ward i think he's fantastic football player but i think if you were making a decision based on i think dj was looking for who's going to make me who's going to help me get to where i want to get to right and he saw because there's a lot of questions about him right right going to the next level otherwise he'd already be there right so so he yeah coming back for a fifth year and he's

third school and he's trying to prove himself but he looked at the landscape and said florida state's where i want to go mike norvell can help me get to where i want to go i like the way their offense is run this is where he he bent on himself but he also identified what's going to be the best place for me whereas at cam ward i mean i think probably did that to some degree but ultimately wasn't quick to make that decision i think if if it was about that i think he might have made the quick decision to go to florida state instead he was trying to see the nfl and then ends up at Miami now I think I think Miami probably ends up being the best I think both quarterbacks probably wound up in the best place for them because cam Ward goes to work with Shannon Dawson right who knows the offense that cam Ward's been in his

entire college career I actually can't like Florida State Miami I can't wait for it by the way oh I know it's gonna be awesome yeah but I well I guess my point is I don't know that I don't know DJ's goal was a little bit more specific. Right. Yes. Agreed. He was still trying to figure out the big picture. I give DJ credit for knowing exactly what he wanted, going after it, betting on himself, and ultimately getting it. I think the Florida State team this year will look so different. But the part that... i was going through the roster and going through who played last year i don't know that people realize how many guys were rotating

in that played pretty decent sized roles last year that are just sort of ascending into bigger roles especially on defense yeah i mean a defense it's across the board you know zari thomas wasn't a starter at corner last year but i think his upside's probably higher than Renardo Green, who just went in the second round of the NFL draft. He was basically the third corner last year, but he's a big-time player, had a great spring. And I think you look across the board at linebacker, DJ Lundy was not a starting linebacker.

The two starters were Bethune and Deloach, but Lundy played almost as many snaps as they did. He was one of the top tacklers on the team he'll be a starter now and defensive line you know you've got guys that that are stepping up as well and again it's more daryl jackson was at times maybe the best defensive lineman in practice but wasn't eligible all last that that was the interesting one to me because i was thinking about it when braden fist got drafted i was like okay how did they oh wait daryl jackson has been sitting there waiting to play and he would have played last year if he could have yeah yeah so there's a lot of situations like that um

but then they also did really well in the portal and you know mike norvell as he does he's he's done a really good job of merging the marrying the two yeah and uh you know marvin jones jr from georgia who people may have forgotten about because he didn't do a ton at georgia but he looks like the five-star kid out of high school who could be a game record defensive end. Well, and he also doesn't. So he doesn't have to come in like Jermaine Johnson did a few years ago from Georgia. That was a situation where Jermaine, you know, was a rotation guy at Georgia, wanted to be an every down guy, wanted to show what he could do. So he goes to Florida State. He's instantly the best player on the roster. He's got to play every defensive snap.

I don't think Marvin Jones walks into that. No, no yeah i just looked back i was looking at jermaine stats the other day he had 70 tackles as a defensive end but right to your point he was on the field yeah every snap and he was running plays down from behind and all that no you're right it won't be that tight there'll be more of a part of a rotation of four or five defensive ends and so he may not have the same numbers as jermaine, but I think he could have that kind of impact. But I think that's part of the thing that the people have missed with Florida State. When we talk about the success that Mike Norvell's had in the transfer portal, if you notice, the high school recruiting has gotten better and better every year as they've won more.

And it feels like the development is there. And the guys that they've gotten out of high school, they're now ready to play. And this is not the situation he walked into anymore. He's been recruiting off success for the last couple of years. Yeah, and I think the thing from a recruiting standpoint, that is a knock on Mike Norvell and his staff, is when's the high school recruiting going to reach there? I think you have to go back to his first two years at Florida State. He didn't get the bump that a lot of new coaches get because of COVID.

His first year, he was part of that class. If you think back to a lot of those head coaches that were fired, that were hired in 2020, a lot of them are still not employed. A lot of them either lost their jobs or are on hot seats today. And at the time, he's trying to put together a class with guys that he got to evaluate when he was the Memphis coach. Exactly. So it was a really tough situation. And I think unique to anything we've ever seen before because really for a year and a half they didn't get to go on the road and recruit they build relationships

he didn't have a bunch of assistant coaches who coached in florida so all these reasons i think really stunted their offensive recruiting but he where he got lucky was he embraced the portal yeah and found success there with guys like jermaine john and Kier Thomas and Jayshon Corbin and all those guys early on. And that led them to get the Jared Versus and the Braden Phillips. I also think some of the guys they took out of the portal early, and this is something I think pretty much every other program has now adopted. But they did grab some guys out of the portal who had three and four years of eligibility remaining. Now, I mean, the ultimate of that is not actually a guy that Mike Norvell took out of the portal. It's a guy Willie Taggart took out of the portal who had three and four years of eligibility remaining now I mean the ultimate of that is not actually a guy that Mike Norvell took out of the portal it's the guy Willie Taggart took out of the portal Jordan Travis but but like I remember Fabian Lovett last year

watching him play and thinking wait he started his career at Mississippi State but it feels like yeah it feels like he's been at Florida State forever yeah no you're right that's it is uh people talk about development as it can only happen with high school players yeah but yeah when you bring in these guys for three or four years or sometimes two years i mean a guy again like trey benson and johnny wilson were guys who had not done a ton at their previous schools coming to florida state have good first years and then really good second years and now you know here they are playing in the nfl yeah this is where we remind the poor arizona state folks that you had johnny wilson and ricky pierce all and you're receiving court and Jaden Daniels as your quarterback yeah I uh like hmm Herm Edwards

may uh you got probation out of it yeah Herm Edwards may need to to face him not not NCAA sanctions for breaking NCAA rules NCAA sanctions for wasting that much talent yeah because they weren't yeah they weren't good at the time yeah but it is it is amazing to think but so what happened last year at the end of the season do you see any lasting effects from that with florida state or have they been able to flush it and kind of move on i was worried about at the time i'll be honest because you know it wasn't just that the guys were mad at the college football playoff committee i think there was some feeling that they were let down because they bought into what mike norvell told them and then what the staff told them just win all the games and they can't keep you out of the playoff well then they won all the games which is a perfectly logical way to say it because it's how it's always been yeah it never

happened but then it did happen so there was a little period of time where you started wondering okay are these guys going to question mike norvell are they going to question the staff are they going to question the school um but i've been really impressed since that time uh they rebounded quickly i think they got those guys you know obviously the the bowl game was a debacle yeah and i understand why a lot of those guys didn't want to play they wanted to get healthy for the draft yeah and uh and they were frustrated so but once they got past that you saw them the way they went after the the players they went after the portal the way they retained, there were concerns about some of the guys on that team, whether they might leave. But they retained almost all of those guys.

Let's talk about that because that feels like something Florida State was ahead of the curve on a couple of years ago. How do they decide how they're going to retain people how do they decide you are important we are that you are a priority we're going to keep because it does seem like they've not lost anybody really that they didn't want to lose yeah there's probably been a couple maybe at most and not none of the high profile guys but yeah i think it's a they have a really good healthy relationship between the the football staff football program and the and the Battles End, their collective. And I think where they benefited was they weren't the first on the scene. You know, I think a lot of the schools and a lot of the collectives, they were the first to the market and really went hot and heavy,

just trying to sign whoever they could sign, make big signings and all that stuff. A lot of times they didn't know what the lay of the land was going to be or how it was all going to work out and how the NCAA was going to do all this. It also feels like they were among the first that prioritized retention over making a splash. But I think they benefited by not being the first in because they didn't make some of the mistakes that other people did. So when they really got active, they realized that, okay, retention is a different ballgame. The NCAA is not coming after schools for retaining their own players and finding NIL opportunities for for them it's more so if it's seen as an inducement or something like that now are they kicking themselves for for making a plea deal in that alex atkins case i think there are a lot of people who feel like they yeah yeah yeah i don't know if they'll officially say that but

yeah they're done yeah because i mean if they waited another month that just disappears and yeah but yeah now they've done a really good job i think the battle's ends done a really good job of being and i think that whole marketplace has evolved to where now you have these collectives that all communicate now and so they know what the market is for certain players certain positions and so you don't florida state hasn't made the mistake of of ruining their whole nil structure by by going out and trying to land some huge market reaching for a play right exactly it's been more about keeping the guys that they have and and they've been able to do that nil structure by by going out and trying to land some huge market reaching for a play right exactly it's been more about keeping the guys that they have and and they've been able to do that yeah

it's it's so interesting because it does feel like that roster's evolved so much every year but they've managed to kind of play the same way that the attitude seems the same i i'm wondering you know someone who's watched that team it feels like like Jordan Travis was pretty integral to that. Oh, yeah, huge. Without him, like, can DJ do that? Or can somebody else in the locker room create that? I think they were really fortunate at the end of the 2022 season that you had a bunch of like-minded guys, Jordan Travis, Jared Verse, Trey Benson, you know, probably Johnny Wilson, Fabian Lovett, Jarrion Jones, those guys that all wanted to come back and play together

because they knew they had a chance to win. And again, that's the challenge is you've got so many players are balancing NIL versus chance to win versus getting to the NFL. And I think they all realized at the end of that 2022 season when they beat Oklahoma that we could have a special year. Let's kind of go into this from the end of that 2022 season when they beat Oklahoma that that we could have a special year let's let's kind of go into this from the mindset of like let's keep this together yeah and so that was huge and Jordan was a big part of that and now he's going and talking to the other players about hey don't go somewhere else maybe you're not going to get the biggest NIL deal you

could ever dream of but we could do something special here and I think again goes back to what we were talking about why that took that team why that team took it so hard when they got kept out because they felt like they were sold this yeah yeah yeah to come back for this because you didn't have guys going to the highest bidder in other schools they all came back Jordan was a huge part of it Jared versus a huge part of it and you see it now those guys come back to help recruit like Jordan was helping recruit dj yeah um and you saw here thomas and jerry uh jermaine johnson recruited jerry verse it does feel to me like there's some ownership of the the recent guys because they helped florida state get out of this

hole that it was in like they feel proud that they've done that and they they can they can help move it forward some more of it and i feel like they can use that over the next few years here well for sure I think Jorian Jones is a great example he's not as big a name as some of those guys but Johnny Jones I mean he and he's talked about this when he came to Florida State from Mississippi State his mindset was I'm going to go there for a year or two and I'm going to the nfl we end up staying there for four years and he's a guy that comes back throughout the spring he kept coming back and was trying to coach up younger guys yeah he's a guy from mississippi didn't originally go to florida state but now it abused himself as much of a seminal as anybody yeah and that's that's the side that that they've

been able to hit on with the poor yeah and i think people don't realize that that still does happen sometimes like somebody who's from somewhere else goes to a school falls in love loves being there loves the environment like it still happens it's just not as common anymore it's harder to achieve yeah for whatever reason mike norvell's been able to cultivate it within his program a little easier than than some other people have yeah i think they've done a good job their whole staff has done a good job with that and and we'll see if they can keep it going because you know again now the problem with winning 13 games is now people people want that it's hard to win 13 again yeah it's it's hard but here's the thing they went 13 this year they're making a playoff yeah no doubt no doubt this time thank you you, Ira. Thanks, man. Yes, obviously still quite a bit of angst over what happened last year.

And at Florida State, you understand why they're still feeling very deeply about that playoff snub. But it's interesting because it's such a different team. But when you dig into it, and I chatted with Mike Norvell for a little bit on Monday, he's very confident in this group. There are going to be players that, you know, who played, as Ira was mentioning, some of those players who played quote unquote non-starter roles that were playing starter snaps. They're going to be there. You know, Daryl Jackson, who was supposed to be playing alongside Braden Fisk on that defensive line. He's been there the whole time. They don't really have to break him in. And then they bring in some transfer Marvin Jones jr. From Georgia. Now it's funny because I've mentioned to Mike Norvell is

like, you know, I remember when Jermaine Johnson came from Georgia and, you know, wanted to be an every down player had been a rotation guy there. And I was talking about the spring game there. Jermaine Johnson played at Florida state and you could kind of tell in the first two reps that Jermaine Johnson was clearly the best player on the roster far and away. And Norvell just laughs. And he's like little bit different situation. Now, little bit different rest of the roster around Marvin Jones Jr. That said, he's a freak. And if you've been watching, Florida State puts these videos out where Mike Norvell races players at practice. Mike Norvell is fast. He is struggling to keep up

with some of these guys that they brought in. So it's a very interesting situation. Marvin Jones Jr., one of those guys, and he's big. So big and fast. And I think they're very excited about what he can be coming off the edge. This is going to be a very interesting year in Tallahassee. Interesting year in the ACC in general. You've got Miami with huge expectations. You've got Clemson with big expectations again.

We don't know what's going to happen off the field. A lot going on, but we do know, as I said to Ira, if Florida state goes 13 and 0 wins the ACC again, they're making the playoff. The question is, will they be playing opposite an NFL game in the playoff? Because that was the other little piece of news that came out Monday. NBC has acquired a regular season NFL game on December 21st. What is December 21st? Well, that is the day of the triple header in the first round of the college football playoffs. So there'd be a game Friday night, triple header Saturday. The NFL has said, don't do this.

The NFL told the CFP, don't do this. We have an NFL network triple header that day. We play regular season NFL games that day. Do not try to compete with us. They've said that. CFP is like, nah, we're good. We're going to go ahead and do that. So the NFL goes, okay, well, instead of on the NFL network,

we're going to put one of those games on NBC. And also Michael Mulvihill, one of the executives at Fox says another one of those games is going to be on Fox. So if you're the college football playoff executives, if you're the ESPN executives who are paying for the college football playoff, you're like, oh boy. One, I hope those aren't flex games. Two, I hope those teams are bad because you don't want to pick a fight with the NFL. I love college football. You love college football. We're probably watching the CFP game.

Well, probably. I'm definitely watching the CFP game is my job. You're definitely watching the CFP game too. Most of America, probably not though, if it's a halfway decent NFL regular season game. So this is their way of chasing the CFP off that date so I'll be curious to see what the CFP decides going forward I'm not as hung up on when you play those games does it have to be a Saturday does it have to because that week specifically everybody's kids are out of school a lot of people are taking

vacation anyway there's a there's a good chance you're probably okay you probably can watch those games thursday or friday if that's what it comes to but that's not a situation where you're gonna pick that fight with the nfl and remember espn that's paying for the cfp doesn't like that either because they're also a partner in the NFL, but now they've kind of gone against the family. So the NFL's doling out goodies to NBC and to Fox and not to them. So that's the other piece of this, because remember the NFL could have just kept those games on NFL network, which is the hardest to get network that shows NFL regular season games, but instead they put it on over the air television.

This was a message to the college football playoff. The truth says I'm flipping back and forth between CFP and NFL, unless you said Andy, the NFL team stink. And I get that. I, and that. You're at home. You're watching. You can have multiple screens up. YouTube TV has the deal where you can put multiple games on different screens. I think in 2024, this is not the big issue that everybody seems to think it is. But the NFL is going to protect its turf. We know that. One group that always protected its turf

that is very different now is the NCAA. I haven't talked about this much because, again, a lot of this stuff is dry. People don't want to hear about the NCAA. If you've been reading my work for a long time, following what I've done on the radio, watching these shows since I started doing them, you know how I feel about all this stuff. They had a scam going for a long time where they were keeping the money away from the athletes who deserve to get it. But one thing that's always been reliable is the NCAA has been a reliable villain. Mark Emmert, now he didn't have a mustache, but if he did have a mustache, he would have been twirling it the whole time.

We're going to keep the money away from these athletes. They're not talking that way anymore. So Charlie Baker, who's the new NCAA president, and look, he's a politician, former governor of Massachusetts. He got hired because of his political skills, and he's trying to put them to use right now. But hearing Charlie Baker talk about a potential settlement in the House versus the NCAA case, which it's going to happen. It's going to be multi-billion dollars.

And what it is is back pay, NIL back pay for former athletes who were denied the right to NIL payments. It's going to happen. And we know it's going to happen, but it's still weird for me as someone who's covered the NCAA for over 20 years to see the NCAA just quit, like just roll over. And yes, that's the right thing to do in this situation. But I was, I was texting with a friend of mine who's also covered this for a long time yesterday. And I was like, do you ever remember somebody talking so openly about a settlement when it wasn't a case of, oh, we did something that is categorically horrible that everybody in the world thinks is horrible.

And we're just like, you know, oil spill situation where they're, of course, they're going to settle. No, this is this is one of those where usually they say, well, we're we think our case will succeed on the merits. And then, boom, they settle. No, this is, they are, they're gonna settle. They're saying they're wrong. And they're hoping that being conciliatory allows them to create a framework

that allows them to move forward. We'll see. I still think they've got to collectively bargain with the athletes. I think that's what they're trying to avoid. I don't think they're gonna be able to do forward. We'll see. I still think they've got to collectively bargain with the athletes. I think that's what they're trying to avoid. I don't think they're going to be able to do that, but here is what Charlie Baker said. Good question from ESPN's David Hale to get this answer. You've been pretty vocal in advocating for some progressive ideas to try to make some of these things work that have not been working. Did find as you talk through the the settlement and

other things that you have a lot of support for that within the room of folks who are kind of frustrated with the chaos that is current the current look i think everybody would like to have to be in a position where they feel like they could plan and the current world we live in planning is it's very hard to do and the best part about being able to plan is when you can plan you can invest you can invest can plan, you can invest. You can invest in your students. You can invest in your athletes. You can invest in your programs.

You can invest in the future and have some idea of what the ground's going to be like underneath you. And for me, part of it was about coming up with some basic construct, which is what the D1 piece was about last fall, and trying to see if that could help move the conversation along. And like I said, if we can land this thing, I think it gives a tremendous amount of benefits to student-athletes, the highest resource programs. I think it creates a lot of stability and sort of clarity for schools, and it makes it possible for all of us to start thinking about

what the next act really will look like as it rolls out instead of feeling like you're just waiting for the next shoot. Part of the settlement is this situation where the schools are going to agree, certain schools are going to agree to share a certain amount of money with the athletes. Now, I think the schools think it's going to be a cap of money. It's actually going to be a floor of money. It's going to say, we agree that we will share at least $20 million a year, 20% of our revenues. We don't know if it's going to be a dollar figure, if it's going to be a percentage of revenue, but they're going to agree to share that with the athletes. It's going to seem like a CBA in a pro league, basically, except they're trying to make it not a CBA. They're going to have to make it a CBA. But why

is Charlie Baker like this so much? Because this is what he proposed last December, this Project D1. And it's basically, it's a way to force the schools into new divisions, new subdivisions, where the ones who can't actually TV contracts, they're going to continue doing this and they're going to pay the players. So it's really a way to protect the other schools in the NCAA as well by having the schools with the money volunteer to give it to the athletes. Because you're not going to have lawsuits at the lower levels because those schools don't make any money. So there's nothing to sue for. So Charlie Baker will look like he saw the future if this is all how it comes to pass. And I think that's going to allow Congress, or at least encourage Congress, to give them some sort of antitrust exemption so nobody will sue them going forward. In fact, Charlie Baker talked about that. Do you guys have a potential settlement?

Do you think that would help you with what you're asking for from Congress? The most important part about the settlement, and let's face it, there's still a lot of work to be done there. The most important part about it is it creates some clarity and some sort of visibility on a whole bunch of issues that have been sort of roiling everybody for a while. And the other thing it does is it creates predictability and stability for schools, but it also creates tremendous opportunity for student athletes, especially the most heavily resourced. And it creates a framework that then makes it possible to have a different

kind of conversation with Congress. So in many ways, I'm hopeful. Yeah, that different conversation with Congress is still not going to go the way they want it to. They're still not going to be able to impose a salary cap on athletes without negotiating with the athletes. They'll get to that. They'll figure it out. But this is where they're at right now. And it's a very different place than the NCAA was even two years ago. So what happens now? I think you see this settlement will happen. You'll see various leagues opt in to committing money to paying the athletes. And I think the conferences are going to be the SEC, the big 10, the ACC, and the big 12. Those are the ones that are definitely going to be able to afford it. We will see if some of the group of five leagues can do it. We will see if they

can put that money together. I don't know that everybody's going to make it into that level from those leagues. I am pretty sure that everybody in the leagues I just mentioned can do that. And I think that's where the line gets drawn, or at least they hope that's where the line gets drawn. Again, what we were talking about at the beginning of the show with Florida State, Clemson trying to get out of the ACC, maybe North Carolina is trying to get out of the ACC, or at least some people at North Carolina interested in getting out of the ACC. That's the worry, is that that line gets moved up, that it's not those four leagues, it's something different. Maybe it's just the Big Ten

and the SEC, but a larger version of the Big Ten and the SEC. We don't know. Again, this isn't over. If I told you last year what the conferences would look like right now, you probably wouldn't have believed me. In another year, when I'm back here, when I've got this shell thing behind me again, I don't know what it's going to look like. This could be a completely different group here. We'll see. But that's part of the off-season intrigue. We got a crazy 2024 season coming, but there's some wild stuff that's going to happen even before we get there. And of course, we'll cover it all here. Heading back over to the hotel for ACC meetings today. We'll talk to more ADs, to more coaches.

We'll have more friends on the show talking about what they are talking about there, about what is happening, about what these conferences might look like going forward. And we'll talk to you tomorrow.