Andy & Ari On3 - EMERGENCY SHOW: Oregon and Washington to the Big Ten | Requiem for the Pac-12

Episode Date: August 4, 2023

Subscribe to On3! ⬇️ youtube.com/on3sports/The best of college football and recruiting https://www.on3.com/Follow Andy Staples on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Andy_Staples Follow Andy Staples on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andy_staplesFollow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/on3sports Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/on3/?hl=en Like/Follow us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/On3Sports/ Shop On3 https://shop.outsider.com/The Big Ten has offered membership to Oregon and Washington, and while they haven't officially accepted, they're gone from the Pac-12. Meanwhile, Arizona, Arizona State and Utah, appear headed to the Big 12. We talk about what it means for the Ducks and Huskies, how much it stinks for Oregon State and Washington State and what happens next as a power conference crumbles. Plus, former Oregon star Geoff Schwartz joins to explain how weird it is when it's your school changing conferences.

introduction that i'm recording but the first you'll hear of an emergency episode of andy staples on three we recorded an episode when oregon washington were definitely headed to the big 10 we weren't quite sure yet was going to happen in the rest of the Pac-12. We're pretty sure Arizona State and Utah were considering going to the Big 12. We were pretty sure Arizona was going to go to the Big 12, but we weren't entirely sure when all that was going to happen. Well, Pete Thamel from ESPN reported right as we were uploading this podcast that Arizona State and Utah are applying for membership to the Big 12. And so it looks like Arizona, Arizona State, Utah will be in the Big 12. Oregon and Washington will be in the Big 10. Washington State, Oregon State, Cal and Stanford at the moment screwed.

That's where you're at. The Pac-12, long-storied history, it's basically done. What happens next there, we'll find out. Maybe Cal and Stanford can potentially rustle up an invitation to the Big Ten down the road, but right now, it looks like a merger with the Mountain West might be the best move, and then you see what happens next. But just a spectacular fall for this conference and a spectacular botching of the job by the leaders of the conference, the presidents, Commissioner George Klyavkov. We're not that far away from

George Klyavkov saying he had bigger fish to fry than worrying about schools leaving. This league is now down to four schools and it's a new day in the big 10. We didn't know when they'd want to expand again after grabbing USC and UCLA. The thought was they didn't want more West coast competition for recruits. Well, now they've got West coast rivals in the big 10, the four corner schools, Colorado, which had already gone to the Big 12. Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah headed to the Big 12. It's now a 16-team league. This was a league that was left for dead.

Left for dead when Texas and Oklahoma decided to go to the SEC in 2021. The Big 12 showed you exactly how you survive in this situation, and the Pac-12 showed you exactly how you don't. So let's move on to the episode we recorded. A lot of talk about Oregon and Washington. We talked about Florida State, the news that they're looking for private equity, trying to get out of the ACC. And former Oregon Duck, Jeff Schwartz, joins us to talk about how crazy it is when it's your school that's the one on no we don't have a show scheduled today but yes we are having a show yes we are talking yes we have a lot to talk about because as we speak at 4 30

eastern time 1 30 pacific time on friday oregon and washington have invitations to the big 10 they're expected to accept them we don't yet know what happens with arizona arizona state and utah but it appears the pac-12 is as on life support as a conference can be and we have a lot to discuss because this is one of those things that we saw coming last night. And then on Friday morning, there was a little pause. The Pac-12 teams that were remaining met. I think there was some negotiating going on, perhaps, you know, Oregon, Washington angling for a little bit bigger share because you noticed there were a couple of reports that

said, oh, they've cooled on the idea of going to the Big Ten. Well, logic would tell you that if the Big Ten was offering the same or one penny more than the Pac-12, you're going to take the Big Ten offer. But hey, you could legitimately say, look, we could all stay together. Easier path to the playoff. You could make that happen.

But nobody would have believed you unless it was to get a little bit more money. We'll see what the finances are about this. I can't imagine they're getting full shares. I would imagine it's a partial share situation. But Oregon and Washington off to the Big Ten. And then we just see what happens next because we're waiting on Arizona, which Ross Dellinger reported on Thursday night

that the Big 12 had essentially voted to accept Arizona if Arizona applies, but we've not seen an Arizona Board of Regents meeting notice drop, and that's sort of the next step in the order of operations because the Arizona Board of Regents is going to have to vote this is a call this is essentially what colorado had to do as well where they decided okay we're going to move and they had an executive session meeting and made all the decisions and then had to come back the next day and have the official public meeting where they voted to move but we haven't seen that yet with Arizona. And remember, the Arizona Board of Regents also controls Arizona State. So are they tied together? Do

they have to go together? Michael Crow, the Arizona State President, is a true, true, true believer in the PAC-12, which I don't really know how you can believe in it at this point, but he's always been a true believer in the Pac-12. So the question is, does he keep that train from going out of the station? Utah, also a piece of this, because you'd think that they're going to potentially move together. But we got a lot of questions from you guys. We'll start with Steve. Does this eliminate any chance of a Cinderella in the college football playoff? When I first heard of playoff expansion, I was really hoping it would open the door for mid-level

teams like the Boise's, UCF's, and others. Well, it's interesting that you mentioned that, Steve, because as currently constituted, especially if the Pac-12 either dissolves or winds up merging with the Mountain West. Actually, there's a chance for a second potential Cinderella-type team in the playoff if the six highest-ranked conference champs get a bid. Now, the question is, how long does that last? Because remember, the first playoff contract runs through the 2025 season. They can change it again before 2026 i imagine they would but potentially you could have a 24 season and a 25 season where the sunbelt champ in the mountain

west champ could get in the american champion the mountain west champ could get in and that would actually increase the cinderella factor but i think, Steve, the further you go, they'll change the dynamics so that you wouldn't be able to. Now, UCF, they're in the Big 12 now. If the Big 12 does manage to get Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah, it already was probably a two-bid league in the playoff. It's champion plus an at-large team. That lineup, especially you add Utah to what they have,

I think their chances of having a three-bid league in a lot of years become quite possible. So UCF is actually in a good position to make the playoff. All they've got to do is build that roster. And if you look at the way they're recruiting right now, I think there's a good chance that they can help. Doxon won 3, college football where nobody is in charge and nobody is qualified to be. Now, there are probably people qualified to be in charge, but the first part of the statement is absolutely correct.

There is nobody in charge. I said this the other night. No one is in charge. No one knows what they're doing. If you remember that, everything in college football suddenly makes sense. And one knows what they're doing. If you remember that everything in college football suddenly makes sense. And it's always been that way. And this is where you see this. Now, this is, this is how this is all happened because nobody was really in charge and nobody can stop anybody from doing this. And while we're on that topic, I do want to say this absolutely sucks for Oregon State and Washington State and for Cal and Stanford.

But Oregon State, Washington State, especially passionate fan bases, their football programs of late have done exactly what you want. Everything you want. They've put in resources. They've built facilities. They've done everything. They've done everything. They've done everything right. None of this is their fault. There is only whatever's left for them.

And I would imagine if they lose Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah, then you're probably talking about some sort of merger with the Mountain West. And look, they can rule those leagues. They can be very competitive in them. But it sucks because their fans didn't do anything wrong. Their players didn't do anything wrong. Their athletic department staff didn't do anything wrong. Their football staff didn't do anything wrong. In fact, look at what Oregon State's done under Jonathan Smith, they've done everything right. And it didn't matter. It did not matter. It is not fair and it sucks. That's all there is to it. I don't want anybody to think I'm happy about any of this. I'm covering it. It's very interesting. Are there a lot of good games now that I'm excited to see

because of Oregon and Washington in the Big Ten? Yeah, I'm excited about that. But I feel so bad for those Oregon State, Washington State fans because, again, they didn't do anything wrong. This happened to them. This didn't happen because of them or because of anybody at their universities. This happened to them. And that brings me to the question from Jeff.

The last two Pac-12 commissioners, worst back-to-back hires in the history of any profession? I have to go back and think about that. If any of you guys can think of two back-to-back hires that had worse results, I'm open to listen because I don't know. I really don't know. It is amazing to me to think about what happened because they were sitting here. Think about this,

2010, the Pac-12 and the big, sorry, the then Pac-10 and the big 12, they had their meetings out in Phoenix where they meet every year. They discuss a potential television scheduling alliance. And this puts an idea in the head of Larry Scott, who's the commissioner of the Pac-12. He's the new commissioner of the Pac, well, Pac-10 at the time. And he has this idea. If I take half the big 12, if I take Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and Colorado, I can create the first super conference. And he damn near did it. He was one day away from doing it. He made site visits to all the schools. What happened, basically, he gets to college station and

one of the regents for texas a&m pulls him aside as he's about to head to austin he goes you know they're gonna screw you right you know they're gonna want to start their own network and larry's like no no that's fine goes to austin sure enough the longhorns want to start their own network instead of casting their third tier rights into the PAC 12 network deal falls apart. If that had happened, the PAC 16, had that happened, I don't know how much of this other stuff would have happened. Now, Larry always said that there would have been more consolidation, but it actually probably would have kept a few things together. Now, maybe when the Big Ten took Maryland, maybe the SEC would have moved and taken from the ACC.

So maybe it would have done that to the ACC. I'm not sure. We know it would have destroyed the Big 12. But it might have caused that consolidation a lot sooner. But because that didn't happen, and it all happened in fits and starts, you didn't have anything completely drastic until Texas and Oklahoma, the SEC, USC and UCLA, the Big Ten, and now all of this. So it is amazing to me. But let's go back

a couple of weeks to Pac-12 Media Day. George Klyavkov, the commissioner, talking about their meteorites deal and are they worried about losing anybody? George, just to follow on what you just said, I think a response ago, because it caught a lot of people's attention very quickly. You just said you're not announcing a deal today on purpose because you want the attention to be on football. Yep. To be clear, that would imply that the deal is done and codified and just you're waiting until after today. I think you're reading too much into that. So then what is the purpose behind not announcing something, which is what you just said? We want to have the focus on football today. We have an incredibly good football story to tell,

and we want that to be the focus today. And they're in the midst of falling apart now because the deal that he kept talking about was just not that good. And he kept saying, well, the longer we wait, the better it gets. No, it doesn't get any better. He got asked that same day about losing teams potentially. And he said, we're not even worried about that. We got bigger fish to fry.

They've now lost three, Colorado, Oregon, and Washington. They could potentially lose three more. They could be lost three, Colorado, Oregon, and Washington. They could potentially lose three more. They could be left with four, basically. And it is crazy how they got here so quickly. But Klyavkov, lots of mistakes. I think you can go back to the beginning of his tenure. They were ahead of the Big 12 in line for their media rights. So Big 12's deal doesn't end until after the 24-25 season. The Pac-12 ends after this particular school year. But they were unrealistic with their expectations of how much money they could get. They were asking for tons of money. Basically, they would look at their ratings and say,

we want this percentage of what you guys gave the Big Ten. But that's not how it works. The networks are willing to spend a fortune on great games. They are not willing to spend much of anything on games that they consider to be filler. So the Pac-12, as arranged there, once they lost USC and UCLA, the networks didn't see a lot of great games there. So the Big 12, with Brett Yormark, who was their new commissioner, came in with a much more realistic expectation of what they were worth.

And Fox and ESPN said, okay, that's great. We'll take it. And that was that. And the Big 12, which almost blew up in 2010, almost blew up in 2011, was left for dead in 2021, is now incredibly strong, at least we think. So we'll just have to find out what that means right now we don't know what's going on in arizona perhaps that situation resolves itself as the night goes on or as the weekend goes on but it does sound like arizona and arizona state would have to go together and the the president of arizona state michael crow we know wants to be in the Pac-12, such as that is. I don't even know what that means.

So it's interesting because everybody has an opinion on this. And most people's opinion is it's bad. They don't like the consolidation. They feel like it's taking away what makes college football special. And I agree with you to a point. I do agree that taking the regionality out of college football removes a lot of this special flavor, this special sauce. But there are going to be better games. When Texas and Oklahoma are in the SEC, we're going to get better games. Oklahoma, Washington, and USC going to the Big Ten gives us better games. And you can kind of tell how people, whether, I don't know if I'm going,

if it's glass half full, glass half empty type people, maybe that's the best way to describe it. If you're talking about the new Big Ten arrangement and they start talking about teams playing Rutgers, you know they're glass half empty. But they also get to play Ohio State and Michigan and Wisconsin, which is going to be kind of fun. Iowa-Oregon is now a game that will happen pretty frequently.

I'm good with that. That's not a blockbuster marquee matchup, but guess what? A lot of people are going to watch that on tv so i just i'm trying to look at the bright side here because again like when we talk about washington state and oregon state there's no spinning that it sucks but the question is what's next we may have an answer to our have there been two worse hires back to back uh the cleveland browns hugh jackson followed by freddie kitchens as their head coaches kyle in the chat giving us that one that's pretty good uh joe says mike riley and scott frost at nebraska i i don't blame mike riley i blame sean eichorst for hiring him. And then Scott Frost, we all thought he'd be

great. He's coming off an undefeated season at UCF. So I'm not sure that that's quite the same, but the Hugh Jackson, Freddie Kitchens thing, I feel like that's pretty close, but yeah yeah it is pretty incredible and so charlie asks uh hearing now there's a possibility the big 12 could go to 18 and bring in arizona state utah washington state oregon state all it reduced shares for me i you know i'd love that for washington state and oregon state i don't know right now if that's if that's a possibility. I hope if that's the holdup, great. I hope that's the case. And then maybe Cal and Stanford, who knows, maybe the Big Ten, because the Big Ten presidents who love rubbing shoulders with fellow elite academic institutions, maybe they would want that. And then nobody gets left behind,

but it feels a little too pie in the sky. I would love that. I think, you know, this is the, this is the new frontier though. And there's no, so, oh yeah. Rocky top Tom says, it's not even that a hundred plus years rivalry and tradition are destroyed by this. Well, they don't have to be. I'll point this out again. Oregon and Oregon State can still play. Washington and Washington State can still play. No one is stopping them from playing.

And it's actually probably beneficial to all parties that those games continue. I know that Oklahoma State said they're not playing bedlam. They're not going to play Oklahoma when Oklahoma leaves for the SEC. Okay, that's your choice. But the game's not happening because of you, because Oklahoma will play it. Texas and Texas A&M were complete babies about it when Texas A&M left for the SEC. Complete babies, both sides. They all blamed each other. It was both their faults. They were babies about it. Now they're going to have to play again because they're in the same league again. Depending on what happens with Utah, if Utah goes to the Big 12, we get Utah-BYU as a conference game again. I'm all right with that. But the argument that Oregon State shouldn't play Oregon,

if you decide as Oregon State that you don't want to play Oregon and they want to play you, that is your fault. If Oregon won't play you, that's Oregon's fault. But if you're Oregon, look, they're right down the road. You have history. The fans love the game. Play the game. It's not that complicated. You want to play the game, play the game. So, question from Sam, did the Pac-12 presidents and ADs handcuff George? I think it was a little bit of both. Blaming George

Klyavkov completely for everything is probably folly. Because again, the Pac-12 presidents, and John Wilner said this on the show on Thursday, they've been different than the other presidents in other leagues. They're just less pragmatic. They're more ivory tower types. And the Big 12 presidents, probably the polar opposites, because they've been through every possible realignment scenario you can imagine, every single one.

And so there is nothing that surprises them. And they've also seen the mistakes that they made along the way or that other schools or conferences made along the way. And they were determined not to have that happen to them. The Pac-12 presidents had not been through this. They were the aggressor against the Big 12 in the scheme that didn't work out. They were not losing anybody until they lost USC and UCLA. And I think the thought was that they never would lose anybody. Why would? Everybody's been together. Everybody likes being together. They weren't paying attention when USC was saying, hey, something's got to change here.

Something's got to change here. And that's that's part of the problem is another thing that that John Willard pointed out. The two most powerful voices among those presidents for the longest time were Michael Crow, who's still at Arizona State, and Ed Ray, who was at Oregon State. Oregon State and Arizona State should not be in charge of that league. That would be like Vandy and Mississippi State being in charge of the SEC. It doesn't work that way. So that part they didn't get. They didn't get that if they didn't do anything, they were going to lose USC. Grillmaster says, this is the process to the Super League. We'll have power two conferences that eventually separate from the NCAA and make a new governing body. I wouldn't be shocked if they make a new governing body anyway. They don't have to separate from the NCAA and the other

sports. I think they should separate from the NCAA in football. I think the CFP or something like that should run college football. Now, if it's just the Big Ten and the SEC, and I think that's what everybody's worried about. Everybody's worried about the Big Ten takes the best what's left, the SEC takes the best what's left, and sometime in the mid-2030s, that's all you can get in terms of big-time college football, and they'll suck all the oxygen out from everybody else.

Jim Delaney's mentioned this, the former big 10 commissioner, some other people have mentioned this. You do have potential antitrust problems if you do that. And I think the big 10 folks are very aware of that. I'm sure Greg Sankey and the sec are very aware of that. They've been fighting antitrust stuff on the NCAA side for quite some time. So they know, uh, Michael Grubbs, any chance the Big 12 just stops at 14 with Arizona? Well, right now, if it's true that Arizona and Arizona State have to go as a pair, no. They can't get Arizona as the 14th. Now, let's say Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah decide to stay in the husk of the Pac-12 and they just backfill with other teams, then Big 12 can go on to UConn or somebody

else that they might have been considering it. But I don't think that's going to wet the whistle of Fox and ESPN the way other ones would. So Rad Brad brings up the other part of this equation. And this is, let's move to the other side of the country because this is what's going on as well and it doesn't sound related but it kind of is thoughts if clemson and florida state joined the sec i think clemson and florida state are great cultural fits for the sec i think again if you talk about good games. And I always look at it like, you know, I don't know if anybody else had this. Growing up in the South, you always had the magnet on the fridge with the helmet schedule. So your team, my mom went to Alabama, my dad went to South Carolina,

so you'd have the South Carolina schedule magnet, the Alabama schedule magnet, and it has the helmets of all the other teams. Like you load Florida State and Clemson helmets helmets onto those magnets you're watching those games so that makes sense but they're in the acc where the the grant of rights feels pretty tough to get out of they're supposed to be in the acc till at least 2036 flor Florida State has said, we're going to fight that. We don't know how exactly we're going to fight that. Well, we did get a little bit of a clue. Sportico had a story on Friday saying they're basically courting private equity to raise capital for a fund to help them get out of the ACC. So I also think they're going to make a legal challenge, but we'll see. The SEC,

I don't know that they have to do anything. I don't know that they have to do anything beyond 16, because even with the Big Ten going to 18, I still think the SEC's football product at 16 is better. So you don't have to do anything. And if those ACC schools are stuck, then you don't worry about it. If they can get out and the Big Ten is interested in Florida State and Clemson, and you want to block the Big Ten from getting into the South, then you should take them. Because, again, you'd watch those games.

We got a special guest, former Oregon Duck Jeff Schwartz. I'm so tired, man. I'm just, like, tired of this. I just went with you another stream. I'm so tired, man. I'm just like tired of this. I just went with you another stream. I'm like in bed now. I'm like exhausted. This is exhausting, buddy. I know.

I was on the stream, the solid verbal stream with fellow Oregon Duck Dan Rubenstein. That's better. There we go. That's better. That's a fine headboard, by the way. Thank you. I'm just going to hate that I did this My wife's going to hate that I did this. She's going to hate that I'm in the bed doing this.

But, like, oh, my God, this is exhausting, buddy. Is it, though? It is when your team is involved. At my conference, I do patch-off radio. I cover this. You get a break. You don't have to talk about this every day if you don't want to. I talk about this every day for basically a year now.

So I worked for SiriusXM for eight years and just stopped when I took this job. So Jeff and I have done this on Pac-12 Radio on SiriusXM. And Jeff has given me the speech before shows because I'm not a regular on that channel. So Jeff would be like, we're not talking about the freaking TV contract today. No, we're not. We're not. I did it not just to you, Sean, everyone. We're not talking about the freaking tv contract today no we're not we're not there were days i did it not just to you to sean everyone like i'm we're not doing this today you know it's mid-march i'm like we talk about anything but the tv contract and i think this

you know i i'm accepting of this andy because i think it had to happen um and i do think nationally you get much better matchups but it does suck suck. I mean, I don't like it. You know, the part of college sports that we all like about the rivalries, and you'll make new ones, of course, you will, but all the story traditions, the stories, like the scar tissue, the fabric of, like, your childhood, because I grew up, my parents are Bruin alums. I went to UCLA home games when I was five until I was 18.

You are a Big Ten family, Jeff. We are ain alums. I went to UCLA home games since I was five until I was 18. You are a Big Ten family, Jeff. We are a Big Ten family. The funny part is no one in UCLA cares. They just got dragged along to this process. My dad could care less. He's like, whatever, man. I'll just watch UCLA play. I don't care who they play.

It's all done. It's just gone. Again, I get it. I'm not a dummy. I get the times are changing, but just like that, I just saw the announcement organs board of trustees is, is I think having a meeting in 30 minutes or so. So like, it's like it's happening. Oh, it's happening. Yeah, absolutely. Well,

and your brother Mitchell played at Cal. Yeah. Where's he at on all this? I don't know. He, he doesn't, he's not into Cal. I mean, I guess if I was, my brother, I don't know if I doesn't he's not into cal i mean i i guess if i was my brother i don't know if i would cal's off it's something too like what's cal's like are they gonna drop just sports i don't know what they're gonna do now he's actually in cleveland tonight to celebrate joe thomas's induction to the hall of fame so i think he's very he's not probably gonna comment very much on what's happening with cal i was gonna say joe's one meal a day when you get into the hall of fame is probably going to be really great. Oh my God.

He's yeah. He's he very much deserves it. You know what happened? It's just Stanford, right? Like they're almost too good of athletic program to be nowhere, but they're not going to big 12. I'll tell you that.

I think eventually they're in the big 10. I would imagine if Notre Dame ever makes their mind up, but also to like, what if these conferences just say, you know what? Notre Dame, we're just not going to play you anymore until you join the conference. They're not going to do that because they love playing Notre Dame. They love full stadiums and TV audiences. It feels like Stanford will eventually get to the Big Ten when Notre Dame joins.

Because 18 teams is awkward. 20 makes more sense. I did see a tweet. It was like, why don't we just split the 20-team conference into a Pacific division and an East division? It's like the same thing we just had. It's really funny. When Oklahoma and Texas left for the SEC, two days later, I wrote that the Big Ten should take USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Cal, and that you know they would just play in football like it it'd be a 20 team league in football but then for the other sports those west coast schools would

just play each other as a conference yeah and it would make sense yeah and then maybe you have one weekend or two weekends you go and play a big 10 team but you just keep everything out west not basketball or olympic sports right basketball you still travel but olymp team, but you just keep everything out west. Not basketball, right? Olympic sports, right? Basketball, you still travel, but Olympic sport-wise, you just end up playing. I mean, look, no one really does any of these deals based on Olympic sports, but it is a burden, man. It's going to be a lot of travel and a lot of just logistically figuring out what to do, but if you're working in Washington,

what are you supposed to do? To me, Andy, streaming is not the end of the world, right? I mean, look at all the – the NFL has a game on Peacock this year, a playoff game, streaming only. The SEC, which brags about its TV deal, everybody plays a game on ESPN Plus. Everybody. But you can't have streaming and then no money.

You can't have streaming and then only $20 million. If you get $40 million, because look, the linear component to this was always going to be that like Oregon, Washington, they could sell to ESPN, right? Utah, Oregon, they could sell to Fox. But why would you sell the best games? Isn't that how you're getting the subscriptions to Apple? I guess, but that's basically the idea, right?

You would sell some of these games to linear and it would be, but they've already done the subscription model. It didn't work. They tried already. Now, Apple TV is more readily available. It's easier to use. It's a cheaper choice. You don't have to take a dish off your house,

that sort of thing, yeah. And so I have no problem with that. But when you get $20 million a year and you're well behind everyone else, and I think that Oregon and Washington look at this as like a strategic play for the future. we took a little bit less money now which i guess there's more reports they might have do you think this morning when everything the tide flipped about 10 a.m eastern that was organ of washington trying to get more from the big tanks that's what

i tweeted that yeah i absolutely think that i i have a sixth sense for when people in my line of work are being used to negotiate because it was so oddly i went to bed last night and i think you're on the east coast too like i went to bed like 11 o'clock and it was like done i was like okay i woke up in the morning i went to go golf pick my buddy up who's a rutgers alum we were joking about ordering the big 10 going to rutgers for the first game i got to the golf course at 10 o'clock and it was like everyone who all the same reporters who are very good at their job were like this, or they're everyone staying in the PAC 12. And it was like, what, what, what's happening? And then an hour later,

you could plausibly, you could plausibly say it. Now you had to be willing to actually stay, but you could plausibly say that even if they lost Arizona, you could backfill with let's say San Diego and SMU, and you'd have a league and you could deal with it. So you could plausibly say that if you don't give us a little more, then we're not coming. And I will see the financials, but I bet we will find out that's what happened. Yeah. And if you're Oregon and Washington, you were in the right to ask for more money in that streaming deal, right,

to get a higher percentage than everyone else. Yes. And I would imagine everyone else said no to that. And you're right. They could have survived as a 10-team conference with SMU and San Diego State, but they just wanted to get a lot of money, and this was going to happen eventually. This is all going to happen. We're seeing this, you know, by 2030, man.

We're going to have, I mean, Florida State today, I haven't read that story because I was busy, but like the JP Morgan thing, like they're trying their darndest to get out of this ACC. They're trying to get a war chest together in case they've got to pay their way out. And look, they've said it. I watched that entire Florida state trustees meeting the other day. One of their trustees laid it out very well. They're trying to manage expectations because they have,

if they want to get out by next year, they have to declare they're leaving the ACC by August 15 15th i don't necessarily think they can get that done that that would be logistically pretty fast yeah yeah so but one of the trustees said hey we have to have a plan if we can't do it by this august 15th that we are doing it by august 15th, 2024. And that sounds, because that's still pretty soon. Like, that's not far away. Well, but Andy, this Oregon-Washington thing happened much faster than everyone expected.

Everyone said for a year now that they're going to end up there eventually. But most thought it was 26, you know, a short grant of rights in the Pac-12, and they're gone. Or 2029, I think is the deal when the Big Ten is up with their TV contract. And no one thought it happened this fast, but the Pac-12 deal was just so bad. And

I'm really curious to kind of get the autopsy on the Pac-12 deal, because once Brett Yormark jumped George Klofkoff, I'm not sure there was a deal to be had. I don't think so either. I think ESPN and Fox were either out or willing to come back at pennies on the dollar, neither of which was viable for the Pac-12. And yeah, I'd love to see that because did the Pac-12 ever have a Fox ESPN offer before the Big 12 did their deal well they did before the big 12 yeah i mean before they had the big 12 deal essentially and said no and i i sort of get that like i i understand like okay let's pause let's see what we can get from elsewhere they overvalued themselves for sure i don't really fault them for initially saying no i don't think they thought big 12 would jump in front of them though which are you supposed to know that i don't i don't really know it was it was surprising and what's interesting about it and this is a part that i i kind of forgotten about until the big 12 jumped the line was that the reason texas and oklahoma left the big 12 or

started you know asked and talking to the sec was the big 12 tried to renegotiate early in 2021 and we're told no like fox and yes we're like nah we're good we'll wait i mean it's this you know look i work for fox sports i like working there i like my bosses like but it is it is kind of just weird how openly these networks are controlling college sports i would imagine it's always been this way, right? Like they've always had some sort of say in it, but just the, you know, the idea that, you know, Fox went to the big 10 and went to USC and was like, let's do this thing. And I know there's been interest for USC to go independent for a while or

leave the conference for a while, but just that they're so involved in the process of moving pieces around the chessboard. It's open now. I, maybe it was always that way. Andy, we were just not told about it.

Well, so they talk about, we were always told that ESPN pulled the strings behind the scenes. And I know a lot of the people there and the executives there. And while there may have been some button pushing, I don't think they were ever complete puppet masters, ESPN. Fox is running the Big Ten right now. Fox is running the Big Ten.

So does ESPN have a stake in the SEC network like Fox owns the Big Ten network? Yes. Okay. Yes. So it's a little bit different. ESPN runs it and then pays the SEC a percentage. Fox and the Big Ten co-own the Big Ten network,

and there's a percentage each, and it just flipped. I can't remember who's got more of it right now. Yeah, so that part being on in the open, I think, makes it just kind of interesting, this whole thing. But the thing to me, the overriding thing is like, when USC and UCLA left, it was one tweet john winner tweeted out i remember i was walking out of the airport and i just got back home and i was like holy shit and then when oklahoma texas left i believe it was like a week before sec media day like the story no it was at

sec media days oh it was okay okay but it was like but it was like they're leaving in a week it was like they were leaving but there was none of this like year-long pursuit of this i feel like i would feel so much different about this if it just was like announced and moved along yeah we've had a year of this i was talking to somebody who's involved with with multiple leagues and that's what they were saying today the frustrating part on this one was with the sec going taking oklahoma and texas that was fairly buttoned up when it leaked yeah the big 10 taking usc and ucla was fairly buttoned up when it leaked this has never leaked this has played out in public the entire time but mostly the big 12 side of this things right like it was not been the big 10 they i think i think the big 10 didn't i

mean they they didn't want to do this, I don't think. They're getting Oregon and Washington at a really discounted rate. It's a financial deal for them. But they didn't have to do this. But the Big 12 has been very aggressive with putting things out there. And it didn't work per se. I mean, I guess in the end they got what they wanted. But it's been just loud man

and loud and and vocal and now i mean i'm gonna i'm gonna andy i i'm new to kind of covering i've been for five years now but i'm not like a reporter you were busy playing in the nfl it's okay yes i'm not a reporter i just consider myself like someone who gives opinions on sports right and the fact that i'm going to try to tune into a border regions meeting in about what time is it right now in about 20 minutes while i have dinner tonight and play with my kids is freaking nuts buddy i've never in my life wanted to watch a border regions meeting but i gotta see what an organized new president the president just got there like three months ago well we the old president went to northwestern we know know all about that. I know. I know. He's like, welcome to the big show, buddy.

Because Oregon relatively has not had any scandals for a year. I mean, they've been a good athletic department, haven't had issues. And, yeah, they have a new president. Like, they have all these new parts. The one thing about Oregon, and I won't speak to Washington. I don't know that leadership there. I know Jen Cohen, but I don't know any of the presidents or anything is Oregon. I trust them, man.

Like they build athletic department from nothing into what it is now. And I trust that they think this is the right move. I trust them. And they want to win the national title in football. They've made that very clear. They've gotten very close. Maybe this is what. Michael Dyer was not down he wasn't he was he was down he was down he was not his lower leg was down he was not down look he's his upper tape on his ankles is on the ground and all the all the auburn fans think i was i was unnecessarily

harsh to that team but i'm telling you michael dyer was not down but it's okay neither here nor there ezekiel elliott was never down in the other game well other times like in 2010 they have not been our 10 and 14 have not been our best teams which is the way it always works in sports right like our 07 team was better and then 2012 was our best team i think they lost stanford uh at home they got upset otherwise they would have been been in the title game as well. It's crazy how sport works like that. Am I the only one here? Yeah, I thought Dan Rubenstein was going to join.

I think they're still going on that show. Yeah, I got off. I did enjoy – we were on the solid verbal with Dan Rubenstein and Ty Hildebrandt, and we were just naming our favorite random Pac-12 and Pac-10 players. It was phenomenal. We had Keith Rivers, Anu Solomon. I mean, that part is very sad to me because it's how the sport worked for so long. And you, you, you watch, you know, watch most of the games all day. And then you go to PAC 12 after dark, or I always, I really loved the Thursday PAC 12 games.

Now I know you, you've probably hated this game. There was an Arizona Oregon game where Arizona beat them on a Thursday night. That was just wild. And nobody saw it coming. And like, those are,

those are the ones i remember you mean the game the one dennis dixon tours acl in that game no not that one not that one i know i the 07 one was just awful no i remember i remember watching that one in just game in arizona no i was i was covering florida at the time and and so when when dennis tours acl it meant tim tebow was probably gonna win the heisman but that was was just sad because dennis dixon was amazing to watch um we were gonna we were gonna do it all that year and look they're still gonna have one look the thing about one thing i always sound funny about you stealing usc bracken about going the big 10 was like we're done with night games i go who was playing the late game on fox on f1? It was you guys. You were playing that game still.

So we're starting off night games. It's not going to be the Packer after dark. It could be the Big Ten after dark. Yeah, you'll be like Oregon hosting Iowa. Listen, I'm here for Wisconsin at Husky Stadium, 10.30 p.m. Eastern time kickoff. Let's go. I mean, Wisconsin's got to go.

So Washington State's hosting their first Power 5 program this year in 25 years. Let me see. In the non-conference. Non-conference Power 5 team. Yeah. With the Badgers going to Pullman this year.

How about that? It's crazy. And the Cougs beat the Badgers last year. So that's – and again, that's the part that sucks about all this. Because I – like think about the job Jonathan Smith's done at Oregon State. He's going to leave now. He's done an incredible job. I know.

And he's an alum. But like what do you do? Look, there was a chance he was leaving anyways because I think if he had another good season, someone would have thrown $8 million at him and hired him in a heartbeat. But now if they get relegated to a different conference and their payout goes from even 20 to like 15 or 12, they can't afford to keep him.

Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing. And some SEC or Big Ten team is going to go, that guy worked a miracle at Oregon State. Oh, yeah. He can do the same thing here. Yeah. Dude, he's an incredible coach.

I'll give you a tour of my bedroom. I'm sorry. Oh, this is me. I just can't sit. Well, we've probably got to let everybody get back to work, back to driving home, all that. But, Jeff Schwartz, I appreciate it. Everybody, thank you for – Yeah, all that. But Jeff Schwartz, I appreciate it. Everybody, thank you for coming in and talking about this.

I've seen this a couple times. I'm going to put this on the screen. This is SPTO says, I think it's too much change too soon. They run the risk of turning NCAA football into NASCAR too big, too fast, and will lead to a collapse in viewership. I think people are underestimating the power of football. Well, this is not good and this is not fun for a lot of people. It's not NASCAR. Why is it not NASCAR? Because NASCAR is not football. I hate it. I mean, I don't, I know there's people out there who like it. Stock car racing is boring. Everybody likes football.

And as long as there are games on Saturdays, most fans are going to be like, all right, let's go. Especially if it's between brands that they like to see. Individual fan bases are going to be turned off. But for the most part, they're going to be smaller in number than the ones that are fans of the huge brands

or casual fans that just want to see the huge brands. So that's the cold calculus that these TV networks are using to decide who goes where. It sucks, but it is reality, and it is the new reality for college football. My guess, though, is when those games are on and it's the new reality for college football. My guess though, is when those games are on and it's two teams you want to see, you're probably still watching.

Now it's just going to be a bunch of different teams playing in different places. Don't know what's next waiting on you, Arizona, Arizona state, Utah. We'll see. Thanks for watching. We'll probably be back doing another one of these pretty soon.