Andy & Ari On3 - Greg Sankey Speaks | Wake Forest Coach Clawson Cannot be Tampered With | Andy Staples On3

Episode Date: August 9, 2023

Thank you to Gametime for sponsoring this episode! For all your last minute ticket needs for games, concerts, and more, download the Gametime app and use code: STAPLES to get $20 off your first purchase!http://gametime.co/Want to watch this episode instead? Head on over to Youtube, be sure to like and subcribe!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RS6yI2xr5AAndy starts off by discussing SEC commissioner Greg Sankey’s interview on the Paul Finebaum Show, which seemed to serve a few purposes:-- Sankey said the SEC didn’t need to “be in four time zones to generate interest on the west coast.” (0:00-4:20)— Sankey said the College Football Playoff format needs to be examined when the dust settles (4:21-10:48)EA Sports College Football is BACK! (10:47-13:16)Next, Wake Forest president Dave Clawson joins the show to discuss playing defense against tampering from opposing coaches (and why he doesn’t bother turning them in). Clawson also explained how he has managed to build a program that continually has older players ready to assume the biggest roles when a star leaves. Clawson also talked about new starting QB Mitch Griffis, who replaces current Notre Dame starter Sam Hartman. That interview was brought to you by Gametime (22:13-37:10)After that, Andy talks about the NCAA’s decision to deny immediate eligibility waivers to North Carolina receiver Tez Walker and Florida State defensive tackle Darrell Jackson. This is a circumstance where an NCAA VP of common sense might have helped. (37:11-47:44)Georgia center Sedrick Van Pran joins the show to discuss his hatred of cole slaw and just how Georgia built the nation’s most dominant offensive line. (47:45-53:30)The Law Firm, the Illinois defensive line tandem of Johnny Newton and Keith Randolph, joins the show to explain why they decided to run it back one more time for the Illini. (53:31-1:03:34) Andy’s Extra Point focuses on the return of a beautiful college football tradition. (1:03:25-1:05:38)

Welcome to Andy Staples on three yet another newsy day in the world of college football we have a great interview with Wake Forest head coach Dave Clawassen coming up. He's talking about his team now. He's talking about people trying to tamper with the players on his roster. He's talking about the experience of losing Sam Hartman, the quarterback, through the transfer portal to Notre Dame. But first, before we get to Coach Klaassen, we're going to talk about Greg Sankey. Greg Sankey went on the Paul Feinbaum show, the SEC commissioner on the SEC network,

and issued his first real public statement since all of the crazy realignment stuff went down the other day. And he was on fire. He was definitely trying to draw a line between the way the SEC expanded by adding Texas and Oklahoma and the way the Big Ten expanded by going out west, but also pointing out that the world has changed a little bit and perhaps there need to be some changes in the college football playoff format as it goes forward.

Now, remember, Greg Sankey was one of the four architects of that 12-team playoff plan. He was very mad when the alliance blocked it. That would be the alliance of the ACC, Big Ten, and Pac-12, where the Big Ten essentially played the ACC and Pac-12 to hold up the playoff until it could steal USC and UCLA for itself. Does that make sense? Yeah. That's really what happened.

And it ticked off the folks who had designed that playoff. One of whom was Greg Sankey, Bob Bowlesby, the former big 12 commissioner was another one. Jack Swarbrick, the Notre Dame AD, Craig Thompson, the mountain West commissioner was another one. And did that affect realignment? Did that cause some of what happened last week? There's no telling. The blocking of the 12-team playoff for a year, I don't know if it really did.

Greg Sankey was asked that by Paul Feinbaum. He said he wasn't sure, but possibly more clarity would have helped on that front. But it's interesting because Sankey did just take two teams from a conference the Big 12 was quite destabilized by Texas and Oklahoma going to the SEC but he really did try to put a line between those leagues and those moves and the move to expand out West by the big 10. He had a quote that dripping, dripping with shade, this quote from Greg Sankey, where he talked about, we don't need to be in four time zones to generate interest on the West

coast. That is a, that's one of those, you know what on the table kind of quotes. And it's basically saying the SEC doesn't need to expand beyond its regional base though. You could argue Missouri is not exactly in its traditional regional base, but that has been one of the complaints about this round of expansion that has really destroyed the regionality of college football. And I guess Sankey's saying,

don't blame the SEC because it's still a pretty regional conference, but more interesting. He was asked by Feinbaum. What does this mean for that 12 team playoff? What does it mean for the format of it now remember the format is six automatic bids for these six highest ranked conference champions and the the thought behind this the the reason you're doing this initially is because there were five power five leagues and then you would have presumably they would be five of the sixth highest ranked conference

champs, and then you could get another conference champion. So you're throwing a bone to the group of five there. Now, if you do it that way, potentially there's only nine conferences. And that's what Greg Sankey said. He said, it remains to be seen, but how many FBS conferences will exist in 30 or 60 days, particularly as we head into next season, if you want to lengthen that timeframe. And that's a legitimate question because right now there's four teams in the, in the pack 12 would pack for whatever you want to call it. Stanford and Cal apparently being discussed by the ACC as potential additions, that's something that's been talked about throughout the day, Monday and Tuesday. Feels logistically weird, but again, with all that's going on,

stranger things, I guess, have happened. So we'll find out more about that. I still think the more realistic path, if we're talking about Stanford, Cal, Oregon State, and Washington State that the team's left over, still think the more realistic path if we're talking about stanford cal oregon state and washington state that the team's left over is some sort of merger with the mountain west you could call it the pack 16 but i would i would imagine they don't really have the juice to say we're running the show but if you're the mountain west you might want the the superior branding and so the mountain west could run it, but then use the branding

and all of a sudden you got the Pac-16. That would make sense. That also would be a league that if we were to compare it to the leagues when it was Power Five, Group of Five, we would call that probably a Group of Five league. So would that league merit an automatic bid to the college football playoff? Now I got a feeling for the 24 and 25 seasons, they might not make any changes

because remember that is the two final years of the original college football playoff contract. So they can renegotiate everything prior to the 2026 season. So you could just leave everything the way it is, which may get a couple more teams that might not have otherwise been able to make the playoff into the playoff those first two years. But then in 26, you adjust because if it's now nine FBS conferences, if there is a merger of some kind and there's not a separate league on the West Coast that is the PAC something, then probably you with that once they got to that point. If there was no more PAC anything or if it was merged with something else and suddenly there were nine FBS conferences out of 10. So that is one thing. And then Sankey also talked about all of the logistics now because they're talking about the next TV contract. They're talking about

first round games on campus. I still think they need to have all the games on campus until you get to the national championship game or at least the quarterfinals on campus. I don't think they need to be in bowls. My hope is that when this current contract expires, which does include contractual entanglements with all the bowls, that you can get out of that and put those games on campus where they belong. But I don't know that Greg Sankey or a lot of the leaders of college sports are behind that. Some of those guys want the bowls heavily involved, want to make people travel a bunch of times for some ungodly reason. But hopefully that's the case.

But this is another layer of that discussion now as you try to figure out who's in what conference, what's going to happen. So you've got all this stuff swirling around. You've still got Florida State angling to get out of the ACC. Clemson, Miami, North Carolina also doing that too, but they're not being as vocal about it. But that could come to a head at some point. I don't know that it comes to a head anytime immediately soon. I think that's a sooner rather than later situation that could be a year away, two years away. But

given what we saw last week, the theater in that Florida State Board of Trustees meeting, who knows? Maybe it's sooner than that. So you've got those issues for all these commissioners. And Greg Sankey also with some pointed criticism of his fellow folks on the D1 Council, the NCAA D1 Council, which is representatives of schools and conferences. It's not necessarily people from the national office of the NCAA, where he was talking about a meeting where there were 40 people and he was the only one speaking. And really, the frustration was bubbling over from him. Feinbaum asked a good question about, is this a sustainable model? Can Division I continue the way it does? And Sankey made the point that maybe it doesn't need to be 350 schools in Division I, and that is the full Division I, that would be FBS and FCS schools. But they do need to figure that part out.

And I imagine Greg Sankey, Tony Petitti, the Big Ten commissioner, they will probably be very much front and center in any sort of change in governance. And Sankey now, compared to his fellow conference commissioners, he's got a lot more practical experience with it. So Jim Phillips in the ACC was an athletic director at Northwestern, but he's got his own problems because he's named in lawsuits at Northwestern right now involving that hazing scandal. So he may have other issues, other to quote George Klyavkov,

the Pac-12 commissioner, bigger fish to fry. But Greg Sankey is a college sports lifer. And you've got Brett Yormark in the Big 12, who's new to all this. Klyavkov's new to all this, but I'm not even sure he's gonna be around anymore. Petitti in the Big 10 is new to this.

Charlie Baker, the president of the NCAA, was just governor of Massachusetts. He's is new to this. Charlie Baker, the president of the NCAA, was just governor of Massachusetts. He's new to all this. So I would imagine Sankey will have an outsized voice in whatever's coming next. And I feel like Tuesday's comments were a reminder that, hey, my league's doing well. We took two teams, but we didn't destabilize everything,

even though you kind of started the destabilization. And now it's time to clean up the details around the playoff. That will be the next thing. And then probably the thing most people are interested in is how do you clean up the details of the playoff once all the dust settles here. We'll have to see what dust will settle. Meanwhile, great news on Tuesday, an EA Sports spokesperson confirmed to On3 that the game, the college football game, of course, is coming back in 2024. Now, we knew they were headed toward that direction. They were very excited about it. They were making deals with players.

They were making sure that you could have real players, making sure you have the real schools, the real stadiums. It looks like it's going to happen, folks. This is what we've been waiting for since the 2014 game was the final one. And then EA Sports was like, hey, can we pay the players for this? And the NCAA was like, no, no, you can't. And in a lawsuit, the O'Bannon one, that was why EA

Sports stopped. Because they were like, well, we're not going to violate federal law by not paying the players here. And the NCAA was like, well, you can't pay the players. Nothing we can do about this. We're getting the game back, guys. We're getting the game back guys we're getting the game back let that sink in let that sink in now great suggestion i saw on twitter they got to put the ability to jump conferences in this game like this is not the only you know

just the gameplay the new offensive wrinkles that have come since that last game. You got to be able to do realignment, too. That's a part of the fabric of college football now. So EA Sports, get on that new feature. You got some time, but I'm ready. That game probably dropping this time next year. Let's go. Come on.

Bring it. When we come back though, fascinating interview with Wake Forest coach, Dave Clausen, one of the best coaches in the country because he's at the smallest school by enrollment in the FBS, not just the power five in the whole FBS. And he's made Wake Forest a program that not just makes a bowl game every year. They're making a bowl game every year. They won their division in the ACC. They're competing every single season. He's got a roster that he's been able to get old and stay old

and keep them from transferring because you'll hear him say it. A lot of people came trying to get his guys. One left. You knew about that. Sam Hartman, the quarterback. Maybe you didn't know. There are a lot of guys who had the chance to leave, but they decided to stay. Dave Claussen will tell us all about it when we return. We are joined now by Wake Forest coach Dave Claussen, who is regaling me with stories from his vacation in Tuscany. Yes, Seinfeld fans, there are villas in Tuscany available for rent.

But no, he's put me on to a restaurant called Sinjele Bianco, Austria Sinjele Bianco. And I'm going through the menu. You've got me on the bistecca alla Fiorentina. That sounds amazing. However it sounds, it tastes better. So it was a great trip and had our whole family there. And just as you would appreciate, Andy, the food was amazing.

So that's the reason you go on vacation primarily is food. How do you do that though? Because I don't have nearly as demanding a job as you and I struggle on vacation disconnecting. And I heard you talking about this trip earlier and saying that you did basically disconnect, were in the moment with the fam and did it the whole time. How do you do that? It's probably the first year I did it, Andy. You know, I just was with my, you know, my daughter no longer lives with me. She, she's out. And, you know, so the time that you have as a family, the four of us, and then my

brother and sister-in-law, and I think the time change allows it. So when you're that far ahead time change, you know, you can't really deal with problems in real time. And you just accept the fact that at the end of the day, whatever problems happened, you'll, when your kids get older, you wonder how many more of those trips you're going to have. So you try to suck every bit of juice out of them that you can. Yeah. That is a, what is it? Ralph Waldo Emerson that sucked the marrow out of life. By the way, we don't get a lot of Ralph Waldo Emerson references from, from our coaches that we interview. So I appreciate that. They teach that at Williams College, right? They did. And I'm sure they teach it at Wake Forest. So we'll bring our own little- Do they teach it at Amherst though?

That's the question. No, no, they still were, when they stole all of our books, a lot of them didn't make it over the mountain. So they're a little short in the library there. And that is D3 Trash Talk with Dave Claussen. So you're in camp right now. This is a year where I think people still haven't gotten used to the program

that you've put together at Wake Forest because I hear people saying, well, they lost A.T. Perry. They lost all these guys. Sam Hartman's at Notre Dame. But I look at your roster, and even after the injury the other day to Donovan green, like you still have three receivers who caught at least 39 passes last year

that are going to be ready to go. You've got really old offensive linemen. How do you keep your program as old as you have? I mean, when we first got here, we just started with the philosophy of, you know, we knew we weren't going to be able to recruit with the Clemsons and the Florida States and some of the other people we have to compete with and beat to be successful. And we can't chase their model. We had to have our own model. And our model certainly revolved around recruiting players that we thought could stick at Wake Forest academically and value our degree. We still probably redshirt a greater percentage of players maybe than any other power five program in the country. And again,

it was get old and stay old. And so we bit the bullet those first two years. And I think we've been, you know, rewarded ever since then, you know, like ever since then. You know, like last year, everyone talked about, well, we're going to lose Sam in his fifth year. We lose a seventh and two sixth year offensive lineman and you lose a fifth year, a Torian Perry. And I looked at our starting offense the other day and walkthroughs and I'm like, we're old again. We have 25 years of experience on our starting O-line. Every player who starts for us except one person has been at our program for at least four years. So I think we'll start one third year guy on offense on the O-line.

And those aren't necessarily the weaknesses, because as we've won and as we've built over $120 million of football facilities, we've recruited better. So we're, we're graduating players that have a lot of experience, but I think we're slowly replacing them with guys that probably came here with a little bit of a higher talent level. And so if we can retain them, I think we'll keep getting better. You went, you took the job and told Ron Wellman the idea at the time that this was going to happen, that you were going to have to take some lumps early on. Do you know if you like,

could you get away with that now? Would it, would a coach be allowed at, at the power five level to do that? I don't think so. Andy. I mean, when I was offered the job,

you know, they offered me a five-year contract and I mean, when I was offered the job, you know, they offered me a five-year contract and I said, I wouldn't take it unless I had six years. Cause I looked at the roster and I didn't see any way that we could be competitive until year three, you know, cause I saw what graduated, what left. I looked at the recruiting classes and I thought by the third year we could be competitive. And I just said, I don't want to go through those first two years and only have three years on my contract. So, you know, I said, I don't need more money. I don't need this.

I just I need to know after those first two years, I can still tell recruits I have four years left. And fortunately, Ron was supportive. And I think the model is kind of built around Wake Forest as an institution. We have high graduation rates. We have high retention rates as an institution. And I needed to make that be part of our football program. And fortunately, we have. I mean, I said it at Media Day, even in this day of age of free agency and tampering and name image likeness, people want to talk about what we lost. We had six to eight players, Andy, that were offered between $150,000 and $500,000 by other schools. And all those guys chose to stay. And a major reason was they want a Wake Forest degree.

So we're still running a college football program here that's centered around retention and graduation. And we're going to work that model as long as we possibly can. How does that conversation go with those guys when they have somebody offer them? And you said it was a case where they're not in the transfer portal. They're, they're just being offered this and it, it would violate the tampering rules. I know you've said you'd rather it be no rules than what it is now, but how did the conversations with those players go? Do they come to you when they get the text message or the DM, or do they tell you after they've made a decision? Well, of the, the eight of them, uh, seven of them shared it after the fact.

And they just said it almost out of, hey, coach, I just I don't want you to hear it from anybody else. I just want you to know that this institution reached out to me in this way through this alumni or this local trainer. And, you know, they were talking this amount of money. But I want to get my degree from Wake. But I just thought you should know. One of the players met with me and told me what was going on. And as it was going on, as it was going on, and I just said, you know, it's a lot of money. And if your entire decision is going to be based on, you know, how can I get the most amount of money in the next calendar year? I said, you probably have to go. But why did you pick Wake Forest? What's the value of our degree? You've

spent three years here to try to get a Wake Forest degree and you're two semesters away. Yes, there's a benefit financially of leaving, but there's also a cost of leaving. And are you really willing to give up a $450,000 education that you've worked hard for for four years to get a one-year payment of $250,000? Right, because this person would be leaving without the degree. He'd be leaving without a degree. And so a lot of these players that stayed, you know, they're within a year of their degree. And they came here because they valued what our degree means and what it'll lead to when they're done with football. And again, all of them except one just stayed without even telling me and shared with it after the fact, which I really appreciated. You know, they didn't

try to leverage it. They knew they wanted to stay. They knew they wanted to graduate. And I think because of it, we'll have a good football team again this year. We'll be right back with more from Wake Forest Coach Dave Klassen. But first, I want to tell you about game time. Once your great college football game's coming up, you may want to go to some of them. But they might be sold out.

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Just download the GameTime app now. Last-minute tickets. Lowest price. Guaranteed. purchase terms apply, but it's that easy. Just download the game time app. Now last minute tickets, lowest price guarantee. Probably makes you feel good about how you've recruited. I would think because you, you judge those people correctly. Yeah. And again, I'm, I'm not surprised by it. Uh, you know, I, I've always said this, that we're not going to be the highest bidders. You know, we have a collective and, and, you know, we are participating in what is the new era of college football. But if we don't provide an experience here,

and if our players don't build relationships here, that if we don't have a reason to keep players here other than the financials, you know, we will probably be in trouble. And so to me, it was very rewarding that as much as they want the Wake Forest degree, I think a lot of the reasons they stayed are just the relationships they've made here, the connections, the friendships, you know, starting with the group and then wanting to finish with that group. And that has to be our secret sauce. And so far, we've been able to maintain it. And that's certainly going to be the challenge going forward,

is that we are participating in this new era. It's not like we're not doing anything with it and we have a collective. But I still think that our model has to center around graduation relationships and providing an experience for our players that they don't want to leave. Now, how do you handle that when you get knowledge that somebody's reached out to one of your players? And I know you mentioned previously, it wasn't anybody else in the ACC, but do you call the NCAA? Do you turn them in? Andy, what's going on? I mean, for people to even pretend they don't know it's existing, there's no point.

If they want to come here and talk to me, I'm happy to talk to them. But nothing is happening with that across the country. And that's why I just say, let's eliminate the rules. Let's just clean the book. Let's not pretend these rules exist. Because the only thing worse than not having a role is having a role that's unenforceable or you're not willing to enforce. And that's what's going on now. And I'm not complaining about it. It is what it is. I expect those things to happen. I know they're happening. And again,

you just have to build your program in a way that you're giving players a reason to stay other than the bottom line finances. I imagine, you know, we've talked about this before, that the people who want to come to Wake Forest is a self-selecting sample of people who would like a Wake Forest degree, feel like they can they can compete academically at Wake Forest. Do you think that helps in terms of when when these things come along, that they are looking at a little bit bigger picture? There's no question, Andy. I mean, if we didn't have the quality of our education, the quality of our school, the quality of our faculty, if we didn't have those things, you know, this would be a much more, I'm sure it would be a more scary proposition, but we're a top 30 ranked national university. We have very intimate classroom settings and the players that we get, they want that. It's part of the reason they pick us. And so if they get these offers from, you know, a large state school that they're going to have a classroom of 300, you know, there's more to it than just the bottom line, whatever the NIL offer is. And so that's why it's important that we recruit players who want what we are, that value what we

are, because if they value what we are in the way in, hopefully that'll be a reason they stay. And again, we're never going to bat 100%. Nobody ever does. And I'm sure at some point we'll lose an underclassman. But to me, the goal is to minimize those losses. And if we get the right people coming in that pick us for the right reason, they'll stay for those reasons. So let's talk about your quarterback because everybody knows Sam Hartman. He felt like he was there for a million years. He's got one more year in college, but he's going to do it at Notre Dame. Mitch Griffiths, who we saw start the season opener last year when Sam was injured. What does Mitch bring to the table?

And how important was it to keep the kind of the pipeline going? Because Mitch was going to year four and probably felt like he had, he'd earned the shot here. Absolutely. And you know, with Sam, Sam gave us five years, uh, and Sam was very, uh, upfront and honest that coach, I want to go to the NFL, but if these crazy numbers that people are throwing out there are real, I'm crazy to not at least test that market. And so that happened with him. And we had confidence in Mitch. And what's happened here, Andy, is we had John Wolford, right? And as soon as we lost John after we beat Texas A&M in the Belk Bowl in 17, people think you're going to fall off a cliff. And then you have Sam Hartman and Jamie Newman. And then when Jamie left, we were picked really low. And then Sam Hartman.

And we have that same confidence in Mitch. Mitch has been here. He's now in his fourth year. When Sam left, which we knew he was, we didn't even look at the transfer market. We didn't even consider bringing a transfer in. We've seen what Mitch can do on the practice field for three years. And, you know, there's always an adjustment when you're the starter. And it doesn't mean that it's going to be smooth sailing from day one, but there is no doubt that he can be a high level ACC quarterback, just the way that Sam was, just the way that Jamie was, and just the way that John Wolford was. And so he starts in a new era of ACC football where you're not in divisions anymore.

I imagine when you saw how your three permanent opponents worked out, it probably looked pretty nice because you got nice local rivalries. But what's a local rivalry? Well, you know, Duke's pretty close. Virginia Tech's not far from you either. That's an easy drive. Local rivalry. That name may go away in the next 10 years.

Yeah, well, that's true. We're recording this at, full disclosure, 9.30 in the morning. The Cal Board of Regents will be meeting in 29 minutes. I don't know if an ACC offer's on the table, but at this point I have no clue what's going to happen. I love my pay grade, Andy. Exactly. That's why I wasn't throwing all the table. But at this point, I have no clue what's going to happen. I love my pay grade, Andy. Exactly. That's why I wasn't throwing all the realignment questions at you.

No, we were excited that we can drive an hour and a half to Durham. And Virginia Tech is about two hours up the road. And we recruit a lot in Atlanta, so Georgia Tech. So those were all, you know, good games and ones we look forward to. And you know, it'll be a different era now that we're not in the Atlantic. Although it seems. I was going to say, I looked at your schedule this year. You still get Clemson, Florida state and NC state. You, you,

you lost nothing from that competitively. No, but I think if you look at you know, the last five, 10 years since I've been in the league, you know, clearly the Atlantic has been a lot more competitive than the Coastal. Even last year, I think six of the seven Atlantic teams made bowls and three of the Coastal. And so you would think over the long term that, you know, maybe that will help us a little bit in terms of the schedule. But, you know, anytime you try to plan these things in advance, right, you schedule a team that, you know, six years in advance and, you know, they're two and 10 and then you play them and they're 10 and two. You schedule a team to help your strength of schedule and they're going to bowls and then you play them and

they're not as good. So there's always an ebb and flow to college football. And our goal has always been to try to build a consistent program, you know, that the ebbs and flows are less severe. So you and my friend Bruce Feldman have had some conversations and Bruce is an excellent reporter. But for those who don't know, he's also his son's peewee football coach. And you've done something for him that you guys don't do for many people because you've got the slow mesh where the quarterback and the running back are meshed together for what seems like forever. I don't know how they do it with all those defensive linemen coming at them. You revealed some of the secrets to the slow mesh to Bruce to use in nine

year old football. And apparently it is dominating in Southern California. What, what made you decide that that was okay when everybody else is looking for the secret and you said, no, no, no, we can't, can't do that. Well, you know, Bruce spent some time at the university of Albany where I started my career. So I almost feel that we're, you know, we share a partial degree together. So he's almost like an alumni brother. In full disclosure, Bruce watched our film and got that on our own. Oh, very nice. I always say that we are in the information gathering business, not sharing business.

So I'm actually getting information from Bruce. He sends me clips from his nine-year-old sons of what things they're doing with the slow mesh. And I instantly send those to Warren Ruggiero, our offensive coordinator. So there's a good chance we've incorporated more of what Bruce is doing than he's incorporated what we're doing. Oh, I love it. I love it. Well, and what I can't wait, because remember when Mike Leach got to Texas Tech and four years later, half the high school coaches in Texas were running the air raid.

When the slow mesh is dominating Southern California high school football, like when modern day is running a slow mesh in five years, it's going to be a tremendous experience. Yeah, I mean, history will say Bruce Feldman was a great writer for The Athletic and other media outlets a tremendous experience. Yeah. I mean, history will say Bruce Feldman was the, uh, you know, a great writer for the athletic and other media outlets and that he is the father of the slow mesh on the West coast. That's great. Yeah. And how does that work with, with you guys? You talked

about not being the information sharing business, some coaches that they're kind of open books on that. Some are, are a lot more closed like for instance you couldn't get much information on the Baylor offense back in the day now it it's kind of everybody's running it but for you guys how do you make that decision of we're going to be a little more guarded about who we talked about this yeah Not to dig up ancient history, Andy, but I probably was as open as anybody come visit us, high school coaches, college coaches, we'll share it's football. And, you know, unfortunately my first three years here, um, we dealt with a really bad security breach, you know, that people had details about our game plans and, uh, you know, you start looking and

saying, okay, you know, it's great that you're open, but are you really doing what's best for your own players and your own program? And so I think the two things, uh, that have helped us is it's what we're doing is unique. And since we started doing this, I've never had an offensive coach leave. Wow. You know, since we started doing this in 2017, our entire offensive staff has stayed the same. And then Kevin Higgins this year stepped into an off the field role and we hired Audie Confessor. So we haven't had a full time coach in our system who has then left for another job that knows the details of what we do. And so a lot of times these things branch out that, you know, obviously Mike Leach has a whole tree.

Yeah. Coaches that work for him from, you know, Dana Holgerson to Sonny Dykes to Lincoln Riley. Right. And so that's how these things get spread. And, uh, you know, we've been able to stay a little bit more in a silo because we've had the same offensive coordinator, running back coach and O-line coach for 10 years. Kevin Higgins was the receiver coach for nine years. So we haven't had this expert at what we do take it somewhere else and share the details of it. So now that I know how Bruce did it, I'm happy about this.

I was going to ask you, my son's middle school team is installing a new offense this year. I have confidence in the coaching staff, of course, but if things start to not go so well, I know I can watch a bunch of Wake Forest film now, compare notes with Bruce, and we may be able to get the slow mesh going in Florida.

And then you have a new recruiting ground. There you go. And then you have Bruce Feldman as the father of the slow mesh in California, and Andy Staples as the father of the slow mesh in Florida. Well, and listen, I know Wake Forest, Wake Forest convention together that you, Bruce and I will get together and you and I will be in charge of the food and where we go, Andy. I love it. I love it. Well, Wake Forest has always done very well in North Florida with

quarterbacks. So if, if we can get this going, we may have somebody for you in about six or seven years. So, yeah, maybe whatever restaurant we pick, if we make that public, who knows? Maybe they can provide NIL for our quarterback every year. That's cool. I got some thoughts. We're under something here. This is third level thinking. That's it. Yeah, we're playing 14 dimensional chess right now. Dave Claussen, thank you so much. Thanks, Andy.

Appreciate you having me on. Thank you to Dave Klaassen for that fantastic interview and really some inspiration for me if I need to help tinker with a middle school offense down the road. When we come back, we're going to talk about some other news in the ACC that involves the NCAA. Remember when transfer waivers used to get denied? They're doing that again. And it was bad news on Tuesday for Florida State and North Carolina. We'll explain when we come back. Felt like a trip back to 2019 on Tuesday with the in-camp news that certain players

had been denied eligibility waivers by the NCAA. It seemed like we were past all that, that that had changed. But remember in the off season, the schools complained a bunch. They felt like the one-time transfer was fine, but the transfer rules were being abused. People were transferring multiple times

and they said they didn't want that. They said they wanted that second transfer. If you hadn't graduated, they wanted to be really tough to be able to play right away. They're really tough to get a waiver. Well, a couple of waivers have been denied and I guess the schools got what they

wanted, but they, because they did this and the NCAA looked like a bunch of jerks when you take some of these stories into account. And I've always said the NCAA needs a vice president of common sense because the VP of common sense could look at some of these situations and go, if we did this, would anybody care if we didn't follow the exact letter of the rule? Because if we follow the exact letter of the rule, we're going to look like a bunch of jerks. So instead of that, maybe we just let this one go.

But that never happens at the NCAA. And you get situations like this. So two situations, they're both slightly different. Tez Walker, wide receiver at North Carolina, denied eligibility after transferring from Kent State. He began his career at North Carolina Central, so that's two transfers. Daryl Draxton, a defensive tackle at Florida State, also denied a chance to play immediately. He was at Miami last year. He started his career at Maryland. So let's take both of these individually, because one is pretty cut and dried, and I understand where they're coming from on it and it probably it works out okay but the Tez Walker situation is a little bit crazy because this is a guy from

Charlotte who originally played at North Carolina Central his freshman season was canceled by COVID so he transferred to Kent State where he could play. And played at Kent State, wanted to transfer back to North Carolina. He's from Charlotte. He says his grandmother was his rock. She's not really able to go up into Ohio and see him play. Would like her to be able to see him play there. Would like to be a few hours drive away from her. And it's an interesting situation because he never actually played at NC central. He left there because of a situation where they canceled a season, which was out of his control, obviously.

And he put out a statement and the way he puts it is I've only played football at one school. So to me, this is really only my first transfer. And he originally was going to go to east Tennessee state had a torn ACL uh got a chance the following year at North Carolina Central so this guy has been through quite a bit and he was going to be one of the higher impact transfers this year now let's not be too naive about this this would have helped North Carolina a lot to have him eligible and playing but it also would have helped him a lot. So that situation, if you're the NCAA, that's the kind of waiver in the old days you would have granted.

Like, why are you not granting that? I get that. You want to make it tougher. It's you don't want people to just hop from school to school to school. And you don't want to make it easy for coaches to tamper. I get that. But this is a waiver you would have granted in the old days.

So why not just grant it? Now you look like a bunch of jerks, and this guy's not going to get to play. The Daryl Jackson situation, kind of similar to the old waiver system as well, but he doesn't have the mitigating factor of his season got canceled his freshman year. He started his career at Maryland. He then went to Miami. Now he'd like to transfer to Florida State. He'd like to transfer to Florida State to be closer to his mother. And that's perfectly understandable. And his mom is close by. He's from Gadsden County, which is very near Tallahassee. So he wanted to do that.

But this one makes a little more sense why it got denied. It might have gotten denied in the old days too. But let's hear Daryl Jackson talking about it because this guy has a great attitude. Our friends at War Chant TV caught up with him during his media availability after Florida State's practice on Tuesday. For you, how disappointing was it to learn that the waiver had been denied? Oh, it was hurtful because I know what I came home for. I came home for my mom. So me, I'm just trying to get through it and be here for my mom. She's thinking it hurts for her, but it's not. So I'm continuing to be there for my mom and see how things play out.

What kind of support have you seen from the program, especially since learning that news? It's been a lot since I stepped foot on campus, for dying here, home time hero. I love this team. Did you get a letter, an e-mail, that they explained to you why it got denied ultimately? No, I don't know what they're trying to prove, a point or what, but.

Coach said I think he thought you had made it your best day at camp coming out after, I mean, the day after you found out the news, I guess. What's that, what was kind of your mentality behind, I mean, I gotta bring the same energy even if I'm not gonna be able to, you know? It's the team, I gotta make the team better, everything about the team, so I'm just doing whatever I can do to help the team out. Anybody reach out and support you? Either defensive line or that locker room when it really came down? To be honest, it might be the first day them boys knew it. I kept it like, yeah, you know what I mean? I kept it there for a minute, the car would hurt.

So, today, that'll be the first time I hear about it. What can you do this fall to get better? Keep working. Keep coming out to practice. Give them my all. I keep smiling, my face. I'm good. Good attitude from Daryl Jackson.

And here's the thing. He's close to his mom. He's going to be able to play next year. So he'll have a chance to be with her. It sounds like Florida state is supporting him wholeheartedly through this. And it sounds like he really enjoys being with those teammates. And so that could wind up being an okay thing, but here's what I don't want right now. I don't want indignation from the administrations at Florida State and North Carolina. I don't mind it from the fans. Florida State fans, North Carolina fans, I get it. You should be mad about this. But I don't want any indignation from the administrations at either of those two schools because ADs and coaches have been the ones banging the drum

for more strict waiver process for that second transfer. They're the ones that wanted it. So you don't get to complain about it now when it didn't work out for your team. If you don't like it, guess what? The schools or the NCAA change the the rules change how the waiver process works because you could create a situation where if there's a mitigating circumstance for example tez walker's freshman season being canceled then you can make it where he can play.

This is the problem with trying to be hard and fast with every rule and trying to put a cap on these things and make sure these guys can't move around because you're going to have times and situations where you're going to need some grace from the NCAA. Perhaps you should have thought of that before you demanded stronger transfer rules, before you demanded that the person making a second transfer as an undergrad has to meet a very high threshold to get a waiver. Otherwise, you don't get to complain about this.

Your fans, yeah, they can complain. The players, absolutely they should complain. But I want to hear it from your coaches or your administration because these are the groups that complain the loudest about players being able to go where they want to go. And remember, they're not employees. You keep telling us that you can't hold them to non-competes if they're not employees, legally speaking. So if you have a problem because somebody you, your team was counting on now can't play, that's your fault. You did this to them. Don't complain about it. For the players, I just hope they keep a good attitude. We're going to see more of these probably over the next few days and weeks, because that's how this always works. And it really stinks that they get the news in the middle of camp.

And sometimes they've been playing and inserted on the depth chart where they're going to be, and now everybody's going to get moved around. But again, you can change the rules, schools. You can change the rules, ADs and coaches. You have that power. So if you think it's a problem, go fix it. Otherwise, you got exactly what you wanted. And in this case, for two of you, it screwed you. That's how this stuff works. Next up, I've told you we're going to be the place for offensive linemen to come and talk this is the show georgia center cedric van praan another member of team double fries no slaw

perhaps the greatest team other than maybe the georgia team he's been on that's won two straight national titles cedric Van Praan is next we are here with Cedric Van Praan the center from Georgia and Cedric before we get started I want I've learned listening to you on the Real Talk podcast with with your teammate Tate Ratledge that you are on my team on something you're no coleslaw I can't get with coleslaw at all. None. Beautiful. I've only had one decent coleslaw in my life, and it was on a chicken sandwich. It was at Bruxy's.

It was the only decent one I've had in my life. So if you're getting chicken finger box. From Cane's. From Cane's, because you're a Louisiana guy. That's right. No coleslaw. You're in Zaxby's country, but you're Cane's. Are you double fries or double bread? Double fries.

That's what I'm talking about. Double fries, extra sauce. We can go now. All right. We've gotten the important issues out of the way, but what's it like coming off two national titles? Everybody, I realize that Kirby's telling you guys, we think you're going to go 5-7.

We don't. We think you're probably going to go 13 and O. But how do you deal with that expectation of, well, they won it twice. They're probably going to win it again. How do you not think that way? To be honest with you, I think it's the truth that it does not matter. For us, our truth is that nobody from those past two teams that are gone are going to come play for you this year. So at the end of the day, you have to be the ones that go out and

represent the university to the best of your ability. So every year is a new year. Nobody from those teams are coming back. They're not going to help you. They're not just going to lay the G all on the field and everybody's going to roll over. Everybody's going to give you their best shot. So it's up to you to make sure that you're prepared. As a veteran and a leader, how do you get that across to the younger guys when they just got there and all of a sudden they're winning national titles, they're getting rings? How do you explain the work that went into that? Well, I pray that they watch the way that some of the older guys work

and that they can see that although we've been really, really fortunate, those blessings come from God and they're not guaranteed. Outcomes are great, but it's not what you really aim for. You aim for the work that goes into it and you aim for the best. That's all you can do. So I know how Kirby structures that program. I know how they talk to you guys about the mental conditioning aspect of it, where it is process-oriented, not outcome-oriented.

Yes, sir. Were you always like that, or did you have to retrain your brain? I believe that I was always like that, but I didn't understand it. So going back to when I was at Warren Easton High School, I always felt like I worked relatively hard to the level that I was on. But the thing about it is that I always look for, I want to win a national championship. Well, not a national championship.

At that time, it was a state championship. I want to win a state championship, yada, yada, yada. And, of course, it's great to have goals, but it should be more focused on how can I help the team, how can we do things day by day. Yeah. And you've won nothing but championships. Like you were winning championships as an elementary school,

middle school flag football quarterback, right? Yes, sir. Now, I heard about this. Is there a trick play that could come from this? It's possible, right? You snap. You drop behind Carson. He pitches back to you.

I wish, but I'll say this. If I got a trick play, I would want it to be like an option. Like give me an option with like Dajon, Kendall, like a triple option. I think that would be pretty good. You want to read somebody. Oh, really, really. If I had it perfect, like myself, Arian Smith, Brock Bowers. Triple option.

I think that would be, yeah. I love it. So Brock's the pitch man? Brock's the dive man. Brock's the dive man. I think if Brock gets full head of steam, I don't think anybody can really catch up. I love that your mind goes to the triple option.

None of your skill guys want this. I think if you get Arian in space, I think Arian can make a play out on the perimeter. I love this. One more question before I let you go, and this is probably going to be a tough one. Maybe it's not. I'll make it two parts.

One that includes your practices against your teammates, and one that just includes the games. Toughest D-lineman you've had to block? So, I think in practice, it could be one of three guys, to be honest with you. It could be Jalen Carter.

It could be Devontae Wyatt. It could be Jordan Davis. But to be honest with you, those three guys, along with everybody else, is interchangeable. I would say in game there's been a lot of good guys. So to be honest with you, there's a lot of good guys all over the country. Ohio State had some really good D-line men. Gervon Dexter was really good.

The guys in Missouri were really good. Guys in South Carolina were really good. Floyd, like, it just keeps going on and on. So, to be honest, it's hard to pinpoint just one guy when it feels like every single week you're playing a high-caliber guy. Those three first-rounders you just mentioned from your own team, how prepared were you because you had to see them? I think they helped out tremendously and Coach Smart is a firm believer in iron sharpens iron. So I think that going against those guys every day ultimately helped me to be able to,

I guess, play well enough to be able to help win games. Cedric, thank you so much. Hope you continue to avoid coleslaw. God bless. Thank you. Just because offensive linemen are our favorite people doesn't mean we don't also love defensive linemen on this show. When we come back, two of the more fun defensive linemen in the country

and definitely one of the best defensive defensive linemen in the country and definitely one of the best defensive line tandems in the country the law firm from illinois johnny newton and keith randolph will join the show we are here with the law firm from the university of illinois johnny newton keith randolph this okay we're going to start with the nickname because you guys may be the best returning defensive line tandem in America. This nickname of law firm, is it Newton and Randolph or Randolph and Newton? How does it work on the T-shirt? Whichever one anyone prefers that day, it could go either way on a T-shirt.

It's Newton and Randolpholph i'm correct but whichever way we don't take it to the heart so where did this come from uh coach b uh coach b said in the press conference and it just stuck you know uh we got nio deal from it and everything so it's just been stuck ever since like an actual law firm had you come do commercials for them and some paperwork uh we were in court actually a few times. No, I was going to say. I was like, I don't remember reading those stories. I think that would have been kind of a big deal in Champaign.

Well, that's – so have either of you had any law aspirations after football, law school? Never in my life. I was going to say. But you embrace this. This is your thing. And, you know, I've seen the T-shirts. They're spectacular, by the way. But I love this because I am talking to a defensive lineman who wears number four

and a defensive lineman who wears number 88. How did this happen? I always wanted a single-digit number. High school I had number eight. When I played Little. High school, I had number eight. When I played Little League, I had number five and number one. But growing up, I'm sure you played every position, right? You're down in the Tampa Bay area, probably one of the best athletes on the field. They'll hand you the ball every once in a while, that sort of thing.

Elite running back, back in my heydays. Is it like the Vita Vea running back film? Oh, man, I was? Elite running back, back in my heydays. Is it like the Vita Veya running back film? Oh, man, I was officer player of the year back in Tampa Bay. So, yeah, but back to the number. I remember growing up, I went to the University of Miami. Kendrick Noren and Chad, I think Chad Thomas. Oh, yeah, Chad Thomas, who makes beats. Yeah.

Makes beats for Rick Ross and stuff, yeah. They both had single-digit numbers. I remember just going to their practice box, yeah. Chad Thomas, who makes beats. Yeah. Makes beats for Rick Ross and stuff. Yeah. They both had single-digit numbers. I remember just going to their practice box, and I was like, man, that's pretty cool. Defense alignment. I grew up on Warren Sapp, number 99. Oh, yeah. So I was like, man, I really want that in college.

And Coach B gave me the opportunity to get it, so I took it immediately. And so 88, how did you wind up with 88? It's a funny story, actually. I've had it immediately. And so 88, how did you wind up with 88? It's a funny story, actually. I've had it since high school. I actually first started playing basketball, I mean football, junior year of high school. Yep. And I know usually defensive linemen wear 90s numbers. Right.

And at the time I was a basketball player, you know, skinny, pretty boy. And I just thought 90s numbers just weren't it. You know, I thought those were like for the fat guys. Sorry. I thought they were for the fat guys. Sorry. I thought they were for the fat guys. So I'm like, you know what? There's no body shaming here. Don't you worry.

Yeah, of course. Don't you worry. So I'm thinking, okay, 88, that's kind of like a receiver tight end number. Girls like receivers tight ends. Give it to me. So I took that, and it's just been stuck ever since. But you considered zero for a minute. I did.

Now, how did you do that? Because the psychology of zero fascinates me because I feel like you either have to have supreme confidence. What? Zero. I'm making it something. It's not nothing or it's nothing. Right. Yeah. Funny story again, actually. Coach had called me and said, hey, Keith, number zero and number four is open. So, Johnny and I had rock, paper, scissors for zero. Okay. I beat him. And so, it gave me zero and they gave him number four.

And so, I was wearing number zero for the spring. And I was like, uh. It's not me. It's not me. You know, I've had 88 forever. I've been wearing it, you know, all throughout college. Like, people know me as 88. Yeah.

You know, and I just said, I looked myself in the mirror, and I was like, bro, Keith, you're 88, dude. And then that same night I had a nightmare. I was wearing zero, and just everything was going wrong. I woke up that morning. I actually got the text message screenshot. I texted the jersey guy. I was like, I'm going back to 88.

I had a nightmare. I couldn't do it. But you didn't want zero at that point. He's mad at me about that. I was probably mad for about a week after that. He texted me. He was like, you could get number zero, bro. I don't want it no more.

I'm like, I was the one who originally wanted number zero. I was like, you could just have it at that point. It gives you a nightmare. Like, were you just jumping off sides every play? I was jumping off sides, missing tackles, and sweats. I'm like, no way. I'm going back. So, you've not had any of those games on the field.

Last year, you know, you guys combined for a bunch of tackles for loss, a bunch of tackles. What's it like to be back together for another year? I'm just so excited. There's no words to really another year? I'm just so excited. There's no words to really put it. I'm just so excited to play another year with him. Just seeing what we've been doing, like I feel like we've just been just going up every year.

I feel like junior year was our first year really coming on the scene, and we were both All-Big Ten that year. And then the following year, All-Big Ten again, and I feel like our statistics are just going up every year. So I'm just so excited to be out there with my boy, be out there with the whole defense again. How did the communication go between you two? Because either one of you could have gone out if you wanted to.

How did that communication go as you decided what were you going to do for this year? Just taking it day by day, honestly, calling each other every day, asking what we're going to do. Like, bro, if you leave, I'm leaving. Like, if you're coming back, I might come back too. So it was just a lot of that going back and forth. Were you all in Champaign at this time? Were you all home?

I was in St. Pete. He was in Belleville or St. Louis. Y'all played in the Outback Bowl, so you just drove home. Yeah, I drove across the bridge. I know after the game we both said we were going to home. Yeah, I drove across the bridge. We were talking. I know after the game we both said we were going to leave. Gandy Bridge or Howard Franklin? Howard Franklin.

There you go. Howard Franklin for sure. So when you make the decision, how does it go? Is it a text between the two? Is it a call? How do you tell? Who told who first? I don't even think we told each other.

Actually, we did. Yeah, we did. FaceTime calls Okay Every day Right before Like we had a feeling We both were going to come back

But like at the same time I didn't know Because I didn't know If I was going to come back Honestly And I didn't know If he was going to come back But I think it was like

The day before we released That we were both coming back We just told each other And I think that's how When it was like a FaceTime call Like bro What you going to do bro Like We were both coming back. We just told each other. And I think that's how it went. It was like a FaceTime call. Like, bro, what you going to do, bro? Time running out.

It was like, all right, I'm coming back. Y'all can go to the league, but you may never be on the same team again. Yeah. This is a one shot to be together. Was it a little bit of relief once that decision was made? A hundred percent. Oh, my gosh, a hundred percent. I was talking to Coach B every day, my position coach, Johnny, just different people every day about what I was going to do.

So just letting the world know, letting the coach know, hey, I'm coming back to school with my boy. We're going to run it back. It was just like a weight lifted off my shoulders. What is Brett Bielema like in that situation? Because he's very recently been on an NFL staff. What kind of advice does he give and who's he reaching out to to get you info? He's brutally honest, brutally honest. And I respect that about him. He has our best interest at heart. He's not going to tell us anything that's not true, which I love that

about Coach B. And it's easy to play for a coach like that who's just going to keep it honest with you, tell you what it is and what it's not. So how do the expectations change for you guys as a team after what happened last year? You start off strong, a little lull at the end of the season. But that Michigan game, you're right there with the team that won this league in their stadium. They went to the playoff.

What does that make you think you can be and do going forward? We knew starting the season off we were fire hot. And all of the games we lost, I'm pretty sure we lost within one score. Yeah. So, like, we just knew that we had it. We just made mistakes, mental errors, had a lot of turnovers. I think that's what caused us a lot of those games. But we knew we were a really great team.

Even this year, we know we're a great team. And we know what made us lose those games last year, just fixing those things, the small things that'll help you win a big game. I think that's the next part for us. So if you guys were an actual law firm, what would you specialize in? It would be like tax law, real estate law, personal injury, criminal defense, corporate litigation. Real estate. Oh, yeah.

Definitely. You don't have to go to many courtrooms. The checks come in. I like it. This is smart. On a lot of land, checks coming in quick, quick cash flow, building things, teamwork. I think that ought to be us 1,000%. I think after you all finish football, maybe law school should be something you think about.

See, this is the thing. That's like what, eight more years of school? Three. Oh, that's not bad. It's just three. That's not bad. You're not trying to be a surgeon. So you'll be all right.

That's true. That's true. You never know. You never know. That's right. And I'm sure the NFL has a program where they're like, hey, you want to be a lawyer? We got something we can have you do. Get a nice little briefcase.

There you go. Carry on a little briefcase. Maybe. I love it. Y'all would look good with briefcases. Look how good you look in these suits. We should have bought briefcases. Appreciate it. Yeah, Max. That. I love it. Y'all would look good with briefcases. Look how good you look in these suits. We should have bought briefcases. Appreciate it.

Yeah, facts. That would have been cool. We're not thinking. Dang. No, no, no. Listen, you got it figured out. You got the branding figured out. You got the game figured out.

Now you just got to put it all together on the field. Facts. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for having us. We spent a lot of last week talking about traditions that could die in college football because of realignment well on Tuesday

one tradition got restored it had nothing to do with realignment it had something to do with a just a very heinous act perpetrated after a football game went the way somebody didn't want it to go. Harvey Updike poisoned the Oaks at Toomer's Corner, talked about it on the Paul Feinbaum show. They ended up having to be removed. They were replanted. They were damaged and replanted again. And for the longest time, Auburn fans have not been able to do what they have done for decades which is

when something needs to be celebrated be it a big football victory big basketball win they converge on the corner of Magnolia and College with their toilet paper in hand and they just fire those rolls of toilet paper into the oaks. It's a beautiful site. It's one of the coolest things ever. They have a live cam that watches Tumor's Corner. Now, Tumor's is the drugstore on the corner of College and Magnolia. Delicious lemonade, by the way, if you ever get a chance to go.

But you watch that camera when something big would happen, everybody would just swarm and you see that toilet paper go flying everywhere. And one of the more beautiful sights in college sports was after a big Auburn win, just seeing it hanging from the trees and seeing people hanging out and having a great time. It's going to be back. On Tuesday, Christopher Roberts, the new president at Auburn, released a statement saying that you can roll Toomer's Corner again.

So as sad as we are that a lot of traditions in college sports may fall by the wayside, let's celebrate when a truly great one comes back. Auburn folks, get that toilet paper ready.