Andy & Ari On3 - How Fox’s Joel Klatt would FIX the College Football Playoff

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

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Welcome to Annie and Ariane three. Happy Thursday. We've got a special show for you today. An incredible conversation with Joel Klatt of Fox Sports. Maybe he should be commissioner college football. He did an episode of his own podcast on Monday where he imagined himself to be the Commissioner College football talked a lot about. Some of the changes he would make if he were in charge. Some of them I agree with some of them. I disagree with some of them already disagrees with, but we had a really fascinating

conversation about those plus great conversation about the national title game. Obviously Joel did a ton of Ohio State Games this year and he is as plugged in to the Buckeyes as anyone. We talked about them, we talked about Notre Dame, talked about the game. We also got Joel's best rule for life, which you gotta stick around in the end of the

episode to hear this one. It is incredible. Joel's appearance is brought to you by Axia Time, the official timepiece of the college football playoff and the Heisman Trophy. I've got my Odysseus two on right now. It is spectacular. If you are a fan of Notre Dame or Ohio State, you should be watching not just for the game and to see if your team's gonna win, but to see if you need to order yourself an Axia timepiece.

Remember, these are Swiss made, automatic, self-winding. They're beautiful. They've got custom designs for all of the college football playoff teams, but with the national championship game coming up, they're gonna get even more special. The team that wins the national championship, there will be custom Axia timepieces that include confetti from the field after winning the national title. So I don't know who, I don't know if I'm responsible for

scooping up some of this confetti, but I'm happy to help because the folks at Axia have been great to us. But you're going to love this. These watches are gorgeous. What a treasure to have if your team wins a national title. A watch with confetti from the actual national title game. Axiatime.com, that's A-X-I-A time.com. If you want one of those watches from the national title game or if you're a fan of another team that was in the playoff, maybe Boise State, maybe Arizona State, that had a great season,

that made the initial college football playoff 12 team format, they've got them at Axiatime.com. And if you use the code Ari Ampersand Andy, you get 10% off. That's Ari Ampersand Andy at Axiatime.com. Check them out. Very cool watches coming out. We just need to know who wins

the national title game first. Here's Joel Clatt. We are joined now. By the Commissioner, I know everybody wants Nick Saban to be the Commissioner of College Football, but he's busy. Joel Clatt has already kind of assumed the role. You see him on Fox Sports. You hear him on the Joel Clatt show. He had a Commissioner Joel episode on Monday. We're going to talk about it because Ari and I were already arguing about what Joel came up with for the next steps for the playoff. But Joel, we

gotta talk about the National Childhood Game first because you and Gus called the Michigan Ohio State King. If I had come to you as you are watching Michigan try to plant the flag and Jack Sawyer try to defend the turf and said this team's playing for the national title, what would you have said? See, that's the opposite of what I thought you were going to ask me. I would have said, yeah, like that makes sense. And people are going to jump all over me for this, but whatever.

I was in shock. Like I couldn't believe what I just saw. There was one out of 20 times that Michigan team was going to beat that Ohio State team, and it happened. And so, if you would have told me like, hey, Ohio State's going to rebound and win the national championship, I would have been like, okay. You know, I think I could see that. What was more just wild to me was that they had just played like they did. I was shocked in the booth. Yeah, I mean, I've heard it said, and I've said that was the weirdest result maybe in the history of the rivalry. And I heard somebody else say this, but it

was true. It was probably the worst team to win the rivalry on either side ever to, um, you know, in terms of just, I mean, it's, it is what it is. Michigan bounced back and had a good, you know, end of the year, they beat Alabama. But I think even their fans would probably be willing to admit that at least offensively, that was one of the worst additions

of the Michigan team to win that game. Yeah, I mean, offensively, Aria, I think that that's, you know, pretty standard. But the only pushback I would give you, and I don't even think you were done with the question. So I'm sorry. But the only pushback I would give you is like, there's two top 12 picks in the interior that defense line, you know, so like, that was the great equalizer, which was, it was literally like the bully at school, who baits the fast talented kid into a gut punching contest. It was like, well, why do you do that? Like what? You know, I mean, that's that's what it felt like. So, yes, you know, you're right on the offensive side. But man, like the way Mason Graham and Kenneth Grant played in that game, they were totally unblockable, completely unblockable. And that's why they ended up winning. Yeah, it's like the fastest kid in school

challenging the biggest kid in school to a bench press competition. Right. Instead of a race. Or somebody with a 1998 Oldsmobile Intrigue challenging the guy with the nicest car to a drag race. That seems oddly specific Ari. Would you by chance in your history have a 1998 Oldsmobile Intrigue in your past?

Yes, it was my first car. And the reason why I said that is because we just talked about it on the show this morning. Oh, you did. It's actually like the 98 Oldsmobile Intrigue challenging somebody who owns a tow truck to a towing competition. Oh, there it is. It was that color too. That is a butte. A butte, Clark. It's a butte. So, so this like the Ohio State, you saw Ohio State a ton this season, Joel. So sounds like it doesn't surprise you that they put it together and got here.

Did the gear they hit for the Tennessee and Oregon games, did that surprise you? Because I don't feel like we saw that team during the season. Yeah, no, I would agree with you. No, it didn't surprise me as much as it was like a confirmation of the things that I had thought were there. Probably TMI here, but like, there were arguments that

I had with possibly members of the staff. Rather than going down that rabbit hole, I will tell you, they the rather than going down that rabbit hole. I will tell you they wait was your argument throw it to four more often. Correct. Correct. So you're the guy. You're the guy who helped them figure it out. Well, no, no, because that was before the Michigan game. You know when they when they didn't. So my thought on Jeremiah Smith is this and it'll build into kind of what I would answer about

the overall team. He's one of the only if not the only wide receiver I've personally covered that is a completely regardless wide receiver. You throw it to him regardless of the coverage. And not many guys are like that, you know, and you could say like, Oh, they got a safety over the top. Fine, run him past the safety. Like I, there's just, look at the triple coverage he beat in the Rose Bowl when Will Howard threw him that ball over on the right side, you know, that that corner out there you go, you're just flashing a picture of her right there. Like, I don't know if I care what the coverage is with No. 4. I really don't. So that was the gist of that conversation. Broadly speaking on Ohio State, I will say that this team against Tennessee and against Oregon did not look anything

like they did early in the season. And I think people would say like, Oh, yeah, that's, that's obvious. But it's, it's more drastic than people think. The defense has completely changed from the first, you know, iteration that we saw early this year. The offense and their points of emphasis and how they got themselves started completely changed from early in the year until what we saw after the Michigan game versus Tennessee and versus Oregon. And I'll just go to the defensive side first, because I know we focus a lot on the, on the offense, and rightly so. I'll give you an analogy for the offense in a little bit. But the defense schematically changed, and their philosophy changed. And it changed in a drastic way. And I don't think a lot of it's been made of it. But after that game against Oregon, they've been the best defense in the country by a pretty substantial margin. No one's done anything against that defense. And, and they

really did two things in their schematics. They completely changed their philosophy of how they rush the quarterback. That's No. 1. And they, they started to change the coverage structure to give Caleb more the middle of the field. And I'm not talking about the deep middle. I'm talking about the intermediate middle of the field. So he had more responsibility and has more responsibility in both the pass and the run game. Because he's one of the great alley runners that I've seen in college football since Paolo Malu, really, early 2000s. So their defensive philosophy and structure changed. They rushed the quarterback now they no

longer run past the quarterback. Remember, guys, we had seen those speed rushes just rush high and wide constantly. And it's just like, man, they just run past the quarterback, they run past the quarterback quarterback steps up and runs quarterback steps up throws the ball down the field. Now they don't do that. It's like they've got the top gun hard deck on the quarterback and they're like, we don't run past the quarterback and they transition from speed to power at the point of depth of the

quarterback now at the defensive end position better than they did early in the year. Which seems to fit the pocket. That seems to fit Jack Sawyer and JT Toomalow's skill set better than what they were doing before. Cuz they're not burners. And now they're getting home. And now they're getting home cuz they weren't getting home. They're getting more sacks now than before.

Right. I think they've got between them ten in the playoffs guys, ten sacks. Yeah, and watching like Jack Sawyer matched up one on one against Cam Williams the Texas right tackle. I'm just imagining that play again where, where he hits Quinn yours. I mean, you cannot, that's teach tape. Like there's a perfect pass rush teach tape. And there was no chance knocks the hand tackle had no chance.

And he wasn't in bad position. He accepts his hands and he just slaps his hands down and runs by him. It was, it was was it was phenomenal. And he had just bowl rushed in the interior to tip the pass on third down. So it's like, Well, what are you what are you going to get? And both of those guys are playing well, I'll be interested to see how effective to email out can be after because he had that ankle wrapped up, you could tell it was bothering him. So we'll

see how effective he can be in the in the championship game. Well, and that's a good place to go to Notre Dame because that offensive line, it doesn't seem to matter. Like they have injuries, they bring guys in. Charles Jagassock comes back at guard, and he's awesome. Is that the group that has to set the tone for Notre Dame? that has to set the tone for Notre Dame? So, I don't want to diminish Notre Dame here. I think that they have a very narrow path because if they're not winning on first down, I don't see how they score more than 14, 17 points

in this game. It's not like they've set the world on fire in these playoffs offensively to begin with, much less against Ohio State. And their threats on the outside are just not what, you know, Texas can bring to the table, or Tennessee can bring to the table, or Oregon can bring to the table. And, and obviously Ohio State, for the large part, shut all of those teams down. So I think you're exactly right. The offensive line and namely the first down game plan for Notre Dame. If they're not running Riley Leonard or throwing RPO on first down, then I don't know what they're

doing because that's their only way, I think, to really effectively move the ball and create second and short, third and short. If they're in obvious passing situations, they're not going to win. They're just not because they won't be able to score enough points. If they don't score at least 17, maybe 20, I don't think that they've got a big shot in this game. Their, their blueprint is exactly what Nebraska has done to Ohio State. It's exactly what Michigan has done to Ohio State. And largely, kind of what Texas was able to do is drag them into a low scoring affair. They've got to be able to do that. And, and then they've got to hit their backs out of the backfield in the passing game. Texas was able to exploit that Ohio State defense with their backs out of the backfield. That's exactly

what Notre Dame needs to do offensively. And if they do those two things, first down success, use their running backs out of the backfield in the passing game, maybe they can get to 14 or 17. Yeah, it's funny because the team total in Vegas is 17 and a half. So it kind of feels like if you feel like you are going to have a game, they have to get to that. And we both picked Notre Dame to score 17 in this game. RE picked Ohio State to score a lot more. My pick is coming out tomorrow. I just taped my pick and preview and I had Notre Dame at 17 points. Yes, the perfect. It's the perfect landing spot. Well, Joel, Joel, that you should recognize the score that I picked.

I I intentionally picked the score of the Ohio State Nebraska game. Wow, that that is well. Well, it wasn't that 1714. Was it? I thought it was 2117. Ah, I just messed that is. Well, wait, wasn't that 1714? Was it? I thought it was 2117. Ah, I just messed that up. The thing that it's 2117. It was. You're right. Okay, there we go.

Well done. And the thing that is interesting to me about Andy's projection is that if Notre Dame drags Ohio State into low scoring hell, then I might have, I might even flip the winner like that to me is if they, if they do it and are successful in it, I feel pretty good about Notre Dame's chances though. I think Ohio state did just win a game where they were punched in the mouth a

few times in the fourth quarter against a really good team and win for the first time in what seems like three years against Ryan with Ryan Day Ryan Day under the helm there. So I think what would make me nervous about a game like that is, as you know, it usually comes down to like one snap or two snaps. And you look back and it's like the screen pass and the scooping sack scoop and score like those were the plays and so Ohio State has more of the ability to do that to you. Yeah, and in a tight game that that would make me a little bit nervous. But I hear you listen. And again, Notre Dame almost beat them last year, and maybe should have beat them. But what was it? It was a low scoring fistfight type of game.

Like we're talking about. It's four in this game with two minutes to go. They do not win if Ohio state gets to 20. Like I don't, I don't. That is such a, such a tall task for those offense to have to score X and the defense to have, I mean, it has to be, it's like that route is as narrow as a mouse hole, right? I mean, like I don't think they've got to be almost.

Joel's right. They've got to be almost perfect because because of what you said, Joel, like you look at the screen pass that Ohio State hit for the touchdown. You look at the scoop and score. Ohio State has the capability to make that happen on any snap. Notre Dame doesn't. Yeah, not against the, not against the Ohio State defense. I don't see the ability to just like, maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. But I watched the, the film of last year's Notre Dame-Ohio State game. I was intrigued and wanted to get, kind of refresh my memory on what they

did defensively in the secondary because of, of Marvin Harrison. And this idea, so like I know Notre Dame's a man defense team. So their defense, they love to play man. When I'm preparing for Ohio State, I immediately throw out anybody's propensity to throw man defense, or run man defense, because I'm like, they're not going to run man against Ohio State, because they can't. Now, in that game, here's what happened in that game is, is Ohio State got baited into the exact game that they got baited into against Nebraska and Michigan, which was this like, let's run it on first down because we have the run box, we've got the ratios. And then Notre Dame was allowed to play man coverage behind it. And they would play two deep man coverage. But then what they would do, just from a

technicality standpoint, it wasn't covered two man, they would roll to a closed safety and drop a hole safety. And they were two free players, one of them would look up Marvin Harrison, the other one would just be a hole safety and they were two free players. One of them would look up Marvin Harrison. The other one would just be a free player and run man underneath. Like that's what they ran. I assume that's what they'll run in this ball game. Yeah.

I'm just imagining Don Brown's man defense. The man coverage Don Brown would run and like, yeah, don't do that. 2018 man defense against me. I got the Notre Dame, Ohio State game. You'll have to run and like, yeah, don't do that. 2018 man defense against me. Yeah, I got the Notre Dame, Ohio State game. You'll have to refresh my memory, Joel, because I haven't watched it back since I went to it. But didn't Marv get injured in that game too? Wasn't he like out for a large part of the second half?

It was on the exact play where Henderson took that run and took it to the house on the left side. Marv stopped walking and gets like rolled up on by the people by all the guys pursuing and trying to make the tackle. So he hurt his ankle for that second half and it hindered their ability to throw the ball. Yeah. But again, like even in the first half, that was a zero, zero game at halftime. And it's because remember the all the Lou Holt stuff and right going into that. It's like, yeah.

Ohio State can get baited into the gut punching contest. Like that can happen. We had a whole discussion about this on Wednesday's show. Ari thinks Marcus Freeman should drop some bread crumbs during that Sunday press conference where they're both together to kind of incept the idea in Ryan Day's head, I gotta punch these guys in the mouth. Like Marcus Freeman of course will never call Ohio State soft directly, but could he drop a few choice words that will make Ryan Day think we gotta run the ball in first down? If he

just says from the news conference, Hey, we don't think Ohio State's very good at running the football, or says it in a more diplomatic way, and just like plants that seed in Ryan Day's head that makes him feel like Notre Dame doesn't think they're tough. I don't even think he has to run. I don't even think he has to go that far. You know, and listen, I give Ryan a lot of credit

and Chip a lot of credit because they found the right concoction. And the right, the right recipe for this offense is throw it creatively and short and horizontally, early and quickly, in order to get to shot plays down the field in order to run the football. Running the football for them against Tennessee and Oregon was the third domino. It was ball on the perimeter, quick, quick, quick, creative, you know, eyes in trouble of the defense, Howard half roll, quick game, screen pass, this and that. Then it was big play action. Let's take our shots and we've got the sail routes and we've got the overs and we got the posts and

we got the seams. And then it was boom, Henderson gone, Junkins, you know, then it was run game. And, and, and to me, if you can bait them into something other than that series of dominoes, then it works in your advantage. Yeah, if you get Ohio State to run the ball on first and second down in the first half, then how do you do that emotionally? But yeah, I think that the running them to run it, guys, I would beg them. I would put nobody in the run box. I would beg them to run the football. I really would.

So if you have an RPO on or anything like that, you're gonna hand it off and make that, you make that choice for them by playing with their rules, essentially. 100%. Or just say, Ryan, your team is soft in the press conference and then you can get that out. Just say it. I wanna know where Lou Holtz is right now.

I wanna know where Lou Holtz is right now. A month after the season, was it last year? Yeah, it was last year. Yeah, I was doing, calling some of the UFL games. And the first game I called was Skip's game with Birmingham. And so I led in our coaches, like production meeting with that line. I just sat down with Skip and I was like, I want to know with Louis right now. And he just died laughing. He just died. Like he knew exactly what I was talking about too. He's like, he's in Orlando. He's in a very comfortable chair reading a book right now. We'll be right back with more from Joel clad. But first, I want to tell you about prize

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The more you pick, the higher the potential payout. If you pick Will Howard and he throws for a yard, you'll win that square. So you're halfway home if you're doing a two square play. So thank Will Howard, thanks prize picks. That's one to watch. Another one to watch, we're talking about Jeremiah love on the show the other day. I think Jeremiah love is due for a big game.

I think you kind of have to have a big game. If you call out Ohio State and say we want the Buckeyes, we think Ohio State is better than Texas. We want to play them in the national title game. So will Jeremiah love? Go more than his total or less than his total. If you're confident in Ohio State's defense, that's a, it's a very good question, but we'll find out when that game gets

played. And obviously price picks, not just college football. They've got the NFL, the NBA, college basketball, the NHL darts, eSports, you name it. If it's competition, they got it on price picks. So download the app, use the code staples when you sign up, play $5, get $50 instantly. Back to Joel Clatt. Alright, Joel, we have to transition to your role as commissioner here because, first of all, everybody needs to listen to Joel's Monday episode.

And if you're not subscribed to the Joel Klatt show, what are you even doing? Do you even say about college football? But this was fantastic because you are throwing out ideas for what the new play out, what, what, what the evolved playoff might look like. And I, again, I encourage everybody to listen, because it's more of a holistic plan for the sport. Because you talk about talent acquisition periods and moving the transfer portal window and all that.

But the playoff thing was what got Ari and I texting each other angrily this afternoon. So that's where we're gonna start. Because you have, now, the idea is to go to 14, which is something that I think the big 10 and the SEC have mentioned there. They'd like, uh, but this is something I know the big tennis said you would kind of slot spots for each league. So four for the big 10, four for the SEC, two for the ACC, two for the big 12. And then you have a group of five bid and an at large spot that Notre Dame could slide into. But I want you to explain how you'd handle the subjectivity portion because you want to take that out. I do and create a championship weekend.

that there, there will still be subjectivity, but after, after firm criteria is established. Yeah. So, so yeah, so you want me to go through like the, what I would do for qualification? Championship weekend thing sounds incredible. Okay, so first of all, you arrive at 14 for a number of different factors, which we could take a long time to discuss. So like, let's get past that and just assume that this is the model, okay, rather than argue, well, like, why do they get four? And why do they get two? Let's just assume that this is the model to get to this championship game weekend. If you have four auto bids in the

Big Ten and the SEC, then what you can have and two autos in the ACC in the Big 12. Then on championship game weekend, you don't have singular championship games. What you would have in the Big Ten and the SEC is your championship game. So you can crown a champion, and then that champion would get one of the top two seeds in the buy. Loser of that game still goes to the playoff because they qualified for the championship game. But then you've got to, you've got to slot two other teams per league into your automatic qualifying spots. And rather than just, just do it by the seating, why not create more inventory? And so what you would do is you would play 3 versus 6 and 4 versus 5 from the standings during the course of the year, and those would be played at home. So, for instance, this is the conference standings that you're looking at for the SEC. So Texas and Georgia played for the SEC championship game. And then Tennessee would host Missouri and Alabama would host Ole Miss. The winner of those games go. And good luck. And in the Big Ten, this is what it would look like. Oregon would have played Penn State in the conference championship game. And then Indiana hosts Iowa, and Ohio State hosts Illinois.

And the winners of those games go. And now all of a sudden, what you have is in the whole month of November, it's not just about getting yourself into the playoff, but in those conferences, and I'll explain the other two as well, but in those conferences, it's about, let's just get into the playoff. But in those conferences, and I'll explain the other two as well, but in those conferences, it's about, let's just get into the Top 6. Let's get into our own little playoff here, our play-in games

on Championship Game Weekend, because then we've got a shot. So now, in my mind, you're increasing the depth and the number of teams that feel like they have a chance, fanbases that feel like they have a chance within conferences. And then what I would do in the ACC and the Big 12, since I'm removing them from possibility of getting one of the top two seeds and a buy, then their championship game becomes unnecessary

and their championship games can become two games, one versus four and two versus three for the right to go and qualify for their automatic spots. Now they could do this if they want. They don't have to do this if they want, but it would be SMU hosting Duke and Clemson hosting Miami. And good luck, and here we go. In the Big 12, it would be Iowa State hosting Colorado, or excuse me, Arizona State hosting Colorado and Iowa State hosting BYU. And winter goes to the playoffs. And, and again, you have more teams. So now you've got Baylor and TCU and all these different

teams that feel like they've got a chance late in the season to get themselves into the playoff mode. And, and what you would have is, at least in the last week, 22 teams that feel like they are playing with the right to go to the playoff or earn a buy. And to me, that would just expand the, what is already valuable, the inventory late in the year. And I, I really like that idea. That's probably my favorite one. So Ari's text to me as he's listening to the show is, what about excellence? The sixth place team has no business.

And I'm like, what was the sixth place team? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, okay. It's it's kind of words now. You know, it's kind of like that. But the thing that I think is interesting is and Joel I was on my way to the dentist today and I listened to the first four 35 minutes. I've got the last 25 when I go pick up my daughter from school today. So forgive me if I but

I don't know and maybe this is just because of the era of college football that I grew up in, which was 2000 to now, right? That's like when my brain was forming and when I got into the business and when I loved the sport as a kid. How you can simultaneously say we want to emphasize the regular season while also basically inviting 40% of the sport to participate in a 22 team tournament because that's all it is, right? Like even if you even if you want to call it big 10 plans and AC it's a 22 team playoff at that point. And if you have the sixth best team in the big 10 alive in that then you're

diminishing the make the regular season. Is that a fair thing to say? Like, I don't know. This is mean to Iowa, Ari. It's like if Iowa is in, then like losing doesn't matter like most of the time, especially for the big teams that are going to be there every year. Because like what would have to happen for Bama to finish seventh in their conference? But it would have given, but that would have given Indiana another hard game to get in.

Or a hard game to get in where they didn't have a lot. I'm not saying it wouldn't be awesome and that it wouldn't be fun to watch, but I don't think that you can say we're preserving the sanctity of the regular season with the system. Those are two different things. And I think, I don't know, listen, I hear that. I really do. I think that the direction that things are going, that argument might be a little bit of toothpaste out of the tube, when we're going to have a champion that either lost to Michigan, who was a 5-loss team, or a champion that lost to Northern Illinois, both on their home field, you know.

So, does that make sense? You know, so we're kind of in there already. What I, what I despised, let me just tell you what I absolutely despised was the first time we got an expanded playoff in our sport and the first time we've ever seen meaningful playoff games on campuses and how incredible that was and those environments were. And we had was and those environments were. And we had negative, divisive commentary regarding who was included. And I thought to myself, this, this is crazy. And what's the difference between the first round of the college football playoffs and the wildcard round in the NFL as far as competitiveness? Nothing. Nothing. There are blowouts in every one of those.

There's nothing. And yet we don't hear that, you know, these teams don't deserve to be in the NFL playoffs. And the reason is, is because there is a defined path. So what I was trying to map out is a way to remove that subjective nature of inclusion, and define the path. And then we can get right back and dive in once we have our teams who have earned their way there on the field. Now we can dive back in and be like, All right, where are they seated? And now we can debate and who's got home games and here we go. So

I also like that you got you got the second round at home. You got second round on campus. Second round on campus. We're requiring it. That one's more of a protection for the fan. As much as I loved the games on campus, yeah, that was great. We can't require fan bases to go to this many neutral sites. That's crazy.

This is we're going to tax them out of the sport. And that's not what we're trying to do. Yeah, you know what I think is really interesting about this is, is that, like, when you get to the end of the road in your system, and I do feel like in this system, we have a pure champion, right? Like, this year,, even to a certain extent of like who should get in and who should get out like this produced teams that had to win along the way. But the thing that I will say, and this is just a pure preference thing for me, is that like my, and maybe this is just the podcaster talking in me, I love the unhinged discourse. love the unhinged discourse. Like I love arguing with people about who should be in and who should be out. I love the excitement that you get

when the playoff committee reveals their rankings every Tuesday. And like, I know that this is probably more functional and healthy where there's just, you know, guidelines and you have to, you know, win X number of games to get in. There's no debate whatsoever. It's the NFL. I get it. I actually think, or you're being you're being you are embracing

college football's history because college football's history is a history of debate rather than a clear path. So but you know, I'm like you always say this to me. I don't like a chance like don't haven't we danced around this forever. It's like this. This is the ratio that we've danced around forever. You know, well, we don't like just several Poles crowning a national champion. So we, we want to take some of the subjectivity out

of it. So let's create the bowl alliance. Let's take a little more subjectivity out of it and create the BCS. All right, now let's take a little more subjectivity out of it and create a four-team playoff. And so like, that's all, that's all we're doing. And this is going one direction. This is going one direction. Yeah. But again, I did not, I know you loved all the discourse. I didn't think it was healthy for the sport when it rose to the level that it did. And, and it was overtaking the entire first round. I don't think the argument about should Alabama have been in, which thank God Michigan did what it did in the in the Reliaquest Bowl because it made that a

lot easier. Like, but it was well, it drove me insane too. I mean, and people and people are so nasty about it is the part I didn't like. Like it's it's college football. It's it's important, but. We don't need to be calling each other some of these things. Well, and not only that, but I thought that there was two, I thought that there was too much negative

negativity placed squarely on the shoulders of Indiana. Right. You know, if I'm a player that only lost to Ohio State and, and Notre Dame. Now I'm sitting there and I'm like, they're playing for the national championship. Like what? You know, so I always put myself in the players' mode. If I'm Curtis Rourke, I'd be pissed. Well, and Joe, we talked about this on our show, like, because they didn't have any responsibility for their conference schedule. And they're non-conference, yeah.

But like, if we just told you before the season, Indiana had to play both teams that played for the national title last year and Ohio State, and they went 11-1, you're like, Oh, no brainer! Jim Collison Yeah, no brainer. That's, no, that's, I think that that's exactly right. And that actually speaks more to some fixes that I think that we need in scheduling outside of the playoff. I think that we need, I think we need to increase the number of Power 4 games that everybody plays, and count them towards, you know, the status of your standings within your conference. I think everybody should play the same number of games. And I also, I also firmly

believe that we need to take scheduling out of the hands of athletic directors. So tired of athletic directors scheduling. Jim Collison Well, that's what, when you're the commissioner, you're going to have a person. And it's probably that guy at Michigan State who does everybody's non-conference scheduling. But you're going to have a person who does that when you're the commissioner. But like the SEC thing, it's crazy to me

because four years ago, the SECADs were on board with nine conference games because they wanted to sell more tickets. Like I knew eventually it was going to become a business thing and it was. Their fans got sick of bad games and so they're like, yeah, let's add another conference game. But then ESPN does the deal with them. And then NBC and CBS do their deals with the Big Ten and the SEC schools are, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We're going to need some more money if we're going to do this ninth conference game. So you know, hopefully that the mouse will, uh, we'll start writing some checks and you can get that ninth conference game.

I do think that they're going to go to nine. I think that they need to just to balance out their schedule. You look at the lopsided nature of some of the schedules, like the schedule that Missouri played versus Florida, Florida played was wildly different. Oklahoma, the same thing. You know, so I mean, those are, those are things that I think will, will come to pass eventually. And I also believe that we should schedule on a, on a, on a road, what I would say, an annual basis, based on where teams finish, I think both within conferences. Like, we have huge conferences, 16, 18 teams. We should pod teams within the conferences. And not just to like maintain rivalries and everything. Yeah, you can maintain rivalries,

but you should, you should put aside a couple of games where if you're finishing in the top end of the conference, you play top end conference teams. And if you're finishing in the top end of the conference, you play top end conference teams. And if you're finishing in the bottom end of the conference, you play bottom end of the conference teams, right? That that can and should take place right now. And it's interesting, because like, that is kind of what happened for Indiana this year, not intentionally. But the NFL does that on purpose. Because they want in order to get that are not winning to start winning. Yeah, cuz they want Indiana in the playoff. Yeah, you know what everybody engaged.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, which I think is important. I really here's a realization that Andy helped me make about myself today. But we have been conditioned to I can't wait for this. It helps you. Yeah, well, we were on the phone talking about this and then he hung up on me and But we have been conditioned to I can't wait for this Yeah, well we were on the phone talking about this and then he hung up on me and thought I got into a car accident I was in the gym. I was doing Arnold presses He goes are you okay, I just want to make sure that I didn't those cute I hung up on him to the

My in my lifetime both as a fan and then a professional, the national champion of our sport before this year was held to a certain standard, which was excellence, right? Whether that be one loss or undefeated, I mean, you know, whether it be how many times do we let the non division champ just like waltz into the into the 14 playoff? Yeah. Well, I just mean from a loss standpoint, right? And my thing was-

Two lost team won the national title, is this gonna be the first time? LSU. LSU, 6-0-7. 2008. 07. 08 was the date of the game, but yeah, 07 season. Yes.

I get that confused a lot. My first dates were illustrated actually. So like, to me, I just felt like there was a certain standard like a team had to at least be at in order to be considered for the tournament. Whereas now and under this system, I think you might have four or five lost teams potentially have how the schedule. So Joel, what cynical me said was that the two or three teams that either under the table or over the table could pay the best players, could pay the best coaches, could have the goal plated toilets, would then beat up on 10 inferior opponents and play two real games a year, and then they'd win one postseason. And that's it? Like that was the

and then they'd win one postseason and that and that's it. Like that was not a higher standard because like you can in particular subjective. Yeah, but you know that matter. Listen, I great deal. I lost one of the tendon in that system. There is zero incentive to schedule quality games. Yeah. Zero, zero. Now you might argue that that's the case this year.

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Back to Joel Clatt. I would just tell you that the more we get into an opportunity where we have a path where one, we're scheduling for you and you have a defined path to get to the playoff, we're going to get not just like some better games, I'm talking about like mountains of better games in college football. I don't think people quite realize the amount of inventory

that we leave on the floor in college football. It's staggering. It is staggering. We get maybe eight to 10%, maybe of the games that we should be getting in college football. And mainly because of this model that you're talking about, where it just matters that we schedule Mercer and win.

Yeah. I'm with you. All right, Joel, before we let- Andy, sorry, I gotta say, I'm sorry. It's just the other point too, is that 95% of the sport, if maybe 100% in a few years, is no longer built in a way where it's reasonable to expect them to go 12 and 0 or 11 and 1 against their schedule, regardless of who they schedule. So like that is the other part of it too. But the thing, the last thing I want to say say and this is just my opinion and my my preference I am kind of afraid of just turning

this into the NFL and Andy always goes it's the most popular sport in the world it's like I get it I've heard that a million times but like the charm of college football is the like aren't you always the one Andy that says the best part about college football, the feature, not a bug is dysfunction. It's craziness. It's outlandish. You can have dysfunction and craziness as the NFL proves every year. Yeah, I guess. Like the Cowboys. It's like if you've been watching Landman, it's like Angela is crazy. But then at the

end, there's like some structure, but still the crazy, you know? Yeah, right. But more structure. Um, and I listen all of those points. Everything that you guys are talking about is, is, is exactly on point. Um, exactly on point. Here's, it's not so much that I would want to create the NFL, because I don't think that you can out of college football because there, I think there are two things that are never going to leave the college football kind of segment, if you will. Our sport is always going to be different than the NFL because the majority of people wearing the scarlet shirts and the Navy and gold shirts and the green shirts on Monday night, the majority of those people in those seats feel like they are part of those programs, because they went to those institutions. And, and it is tribal for them, because they became themselves, and their identity is tied to those songs, those colors, everything about what they're, what they're witnessing. Nobody that goes to an NFL game, even in this, this weekend's Divisional Round, can feel like they've been a part of those organizations because they have not. Nothing they did in their life ties them to that organization except for their

fandom. All right, so they're a fanatic about that team. But they didn't go to Notre Dame. They're, they're not, you know, part of, of the echoes. They didn't go to Columbus and forge their identity, watching the eye get dotted in, you know, in the shoe every Saturday. So that's number one. And then number two, the organic nature, like, did you guys see that video? I retweeted it, and it was from the Ohio State band. And it was a clip I retweeted it and it was from the Ohio State band and it was a clip from like a cell phone of one of the band members on Jack Sawyer's fourth down play and So like you you see it. I actually repost this you can check it out on my Twitter, but You can see like and they're celebrating, you know

Cuz it's like the play is incredible and then all of a sudden you see the the entire band is like You know and like lock up and play the fight song. And then all of a sudden, as soon as the last note, you know, ends, they go back to just jumping around. And I'm like, that's it. That's it. That's what will never leave. Ari, that'll never happen. So as much as we're worried about the NFL, it's not going to happen because those two things will never leave our game. There's lady I was talking to a few years ago, and I wish I could remember exactly who it was to give proper credit because it was the this is the most accurate thing anybody ever

explained to me about college football. Nobody ever says I'm an eagle, or I'm a ram, or I'm a dolphin. They do say I'm an eagle or I'm a ram or I'm a dolphin. They do say I'm a buckeye. I'm an Aggie. I'm a Gator. Like that's how they describe themselves when they introduce themselves. Oh, you're a Bruin.

That's it. What you just said, Joel, is it? Good or bad, that's who you are. That's like it can be your team went winless and you're still part of that tribe. Before we let you go, Joel. Okay. We mentioned this earlier, before we started recording.

This is something that Ari and I talked about on the show and we're gonna start this as a new feature. When we have a guest on, because we have some, all these really smart people who come on, and I feel like we can learn something from everybody. So Ari and I have talked about our rules for life. Ari's dad, Bob, has some incredible rules for life, like never buy a four cylinder car.

Joel, so I will ask you, I'll put this to you. Do you have any hard and fast rules for life? Gosh, I feel like I have so many that I've like experienced on my own. Never swing at a three and two slider outside that ended my baseball career. Another one from football, never throw late over the middle.

And then here's one. Here's one. Never get in a fight. With a guy with a huge belt buckle. Don't do it. I learned that one the hard way guys. So here I am. I'm not. I'm 19 at the time and I'm playing minor league baseball in the Pioneer League and we went up to Montana. We're in Great Falls,

Montana and we're playing the Great Falls Dodgers and we go out to an establishment and you know, I mean like I mean at the time this is like the year like 2000. I'm in like Abercrombie and we like roll in there, you know, with like our Doc Martens and and and Lucky jeans and Abercrombie shirts. And like, the Cowboys didn't like us. And so this guy, he didn't look very big. But like he starts chirping and calls us city slickers, which I thought was ridiculous. So I like, you know, I had some smart

comment back to him. And he just like, promptly got up from his stool and walked over to me. And I'm like, you know, I had some smart comment back to him. And he just like promptly got up from his stool and walked over to me and I'm like, you know, I'm from Arvada, Colorado guys. It's the suburbs. I'm sorry for any of you that are there and that are tough. Like we're not tough. And I thought we were gonna like shove, I would get kicked out and like that would be it.

And homeboy came and was just like, bam just drilled me right in the face. And all the sudden, my feet are above my head, I'm on my back, and his boots are like, going just like this. And I'm like, Oh, you know, I don't really know what's going on. A couple of my teammates did everything they could do just to like kind of push them and I rolled and I got up and we just ran out of the bar. And so never get in a fight with a guy with a huge belt buckle. This is going to be the greatest series. Like we may have a book out of this. Yeah. Yeah. We talked to 10, you know, 10 people, 100 people like

this is incredible. That cowboy has probably consumed your content now. No. No, he hasn't. I don't think he owns a cell phone. So there's no TV in the chuck wagon? I doubt it. I doubt it. And that person was RIP.

I mean, when he got up, I remember thinking to myself, like, this guy is all balls in those jeans. He was just like, I was like, whoa, what are we doing? And he just absolutely destroyed me. See now Joel, if you ever call the brawl of the wild, Montana versus Montana State, he may, he may want. You may need to talk about that. Yeah.

Like I remember, I remember that kid. Gosh, guys, I'm, guys, belt buckles ring differently. Never do it. Yeah. Never getting to fight with a guy. What a, what a fantastic piece of advice. Joel, I, that is amazing. This is you. We have all learned so much today. And we've also learned that, but that was before my football career, by the it but that was before my football career by the way that was before my football career so yeah a couple years later like tommy harris from oklahoma hits me and i'm like i'm good like nothing like that cowboy that sent me into a different stratosphere man joel we appreciate it and uh check out Platt Show, subscribe and Joel's pick for

the national title game coming out today, Thursday. Appreciate it guys. That was great. I told you that was an incredible story and a great rule for life. Never fight a man with a very large belt buckle. I think our inner have start writing these down. This is advice that I think we're gonna need moving forward We need to tell to our children Joel

With an incredible rule add that to the list. So you've got mine You've got never complain about free food. Never complain about free beer. Never skip leg day You've got Ari's got a big list most from his dad Bob Now it starts with never buy a four banger a four-cylinder car Buy blue chip stocks and hold them. This is all very good advice We're gonna keep this up. I think we're gonna have some fun with this We've got more guests coming as the the year goes on

We've got a coach who's kind of mad at us about our way way way way way too early top ten He's supposed to join us on the show next week to hash it out When I ask him his rules for life and everybody else too because we have some really interesting people Who are gonna come through the show in the next few months? So I think we're gonna have a lot of rules for life that everybody, you know, you don't have to follow them all, but it's gonna be very good advice. So not only will you get great college football talk,

you will also get good advice that will help you in life. We are a full service show. Next time you see Ari and I, it will be from Atlanta. On Saturday, we'll have a mini show dropping from media day. We'll be talking to players from Ohio State and Notre Dame talking to coaches. And so we will help you get ready for the national title game with a mini show on Saturday. And then of course, Monday, I mentioned at the end of Wednesday's show,

we're gonna have Jim Nagy from the senior bowl on we're gonna have Jim's interview on Monday helping you get ready for the National Title game because he has Riley Leonard and Will Howard coming to the Senior Bowl so he can tell us what those guys look like through a scout's eyes and it's gonna be absolutely fascinating. Plus, we'll talk about some of the other guys headed to the Senior Bowl. So, that'll be on Monday. So get ready.

The biggest game of the college football season is coming up on Monday night. We'll have a show on Saturday. We'll have a show on Monday. So Ari and I will see you from Atlanta. Thanks for watching!