Andy & Ari On3 - How Houston created a SELFLESS team in the NIL era

Episode Date: April 7, 2025

Thank you to Gametime for sponsoring today's episode! Planning your college football travel for this season? Gametime has tickets to every game. (And every concert and comedy show.) Download the Gametime App and enter code: STAPLES for $20 off your first purchase, terms apply. Last Minute Tickets, Lowest Prices, Guaranteed.  Whataburger fans, it’s time to celebrate — the Mushroom Swiss Burger is BACK!And, honestly, it deserves a welcome party. Two juicy, all-beef patties, melty cheese and twolayers of perfectly grilled mushrooms bring the rich, hearty goodness. And let’s not forget thecreamy au jus sauce tying it all together like a perfect bite-sized symphony. But here’s the catch— it’s only here for a limited time. So if you love mushrooms, this one’s for you. Don’t be theperson wishing they got it after it’s gone. Grab yours today!(0:00-5:45) Intro: Preview of the National Title(5:46-6:46) Gametime(6:47-16:46) Continuing to preview Florida vs Houston(16:47-26:51) Landon Goesling joins(26:52-36:03) Can a school change what it is?(36:04-36:47) Whataburger: Last chance for double points(36:48-45:03) Chris Doering joins: Discussing Florida(45:04-53:14) The rest of the SEC with Chris Doering(53:15-57:25) Worried about DJ Lagway's Shoulder?(57:26-1:14:55) Jalen Milroe a first round pick?(1:14:56-1:20:10) Conclusion: Diamonds in the rough, Championship game tonight The basketball national title game is tonight, and Andy and Ari break down the matchup between Florida and Houston. Former Houston basketball player Landon Goesling — one of the founders of Houston’s LinkingCoogs collective — joins the show to explain how coach Kelvin Sampson has managed to build a selfless team in the NIL era. Later, Chris Doering of the SEC Network joins to talk spring football. Doering, a former Florida receiver, explains why he isn’t worried about D.J. Lagway resting his arm this spring. He also reveals the SEC teams he can’t wait to see in their 2025 version.  Want to watch us on YouTube? Join us LIVE, M-F at 9:30 am ET! https://youtube.com/live/Q4bOOD23DIo Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari WassermanProducer: River Bailey Interested in partnering with the show? Email [e-mail]

It is the end of the road for the college basketball season. Florida and Houston facing off in San Antonio tonight. Going to be spectacular. This is not the matchup. We thought we were going to get Ari, but that Houston last two minutes, the Duke meltdown. Do you want to do the talk radio thing? Was it a great comeback or was it a choke?

I think, you know, it's okay for it to be both, right? I think it was both. Yeah. Yeah, because I think a lot of people are trying to pin that whole thing on Cooper flag foul and whether or not you thought that was a foul. And I was just like, there was a lot that happened there that wasn't just the foul. I mean, like there was-

Oh yeah, I had a Duke fan texting me and I said, I didn't think, you know, I didn't think it was a foul and I was just like there was a lot that happened there that wasn't just a foul. I mean like there was. Oh yeah I had a Duke fan texting me and I said I I didn't you know I didn't think it was a foul and and they were like yeah it doesn't matter like it shouldn't come down to that. Yeah right um there were some threes and free throws and turnovers and all the things that you know I think it's like if blowing a game like that is a stew I think that they brought all the ingredients from from Durham Farmers Market. Like I don't know. Like I don't even know if that's actually a foul or not. Like is that actually a bad call? Like it was a bad call. It was a bad call. There were some bad

calls in the in the final four games like it. There were a few not great calls. So it's but that's going to happen and you have to be able to play through that like it should not have been at a point Where if Duke got called for a ticky-tack foul? Houston could take the lead with two free throws like Duke put themselves in that position By I mean you could you could make that a recruiting argument where you say Hey, you decided not to have a true point guard like you decided when you built this team not to have a true point guard.

So that's going to cause you problems when an athletic good defensive team is pressing you. Yeah. And I think also part of it too is that when you're up by six with a minute and a half left or whatever, there's kind of a we're moving on feeling and like that you can't do that. Like I don't know. Didn't it kind of feel like they felt like they won?

And at that point, like Houston never believed that the game was over. They kept pushing and then all of a sudden they make two big plays and it's very much in question. And then Duke like has a hard time snapping back into, my God, we could lose this game mode. And it's like, I feel like if you're in a position like that, you've got to do everything that you can in your power to maintain 100% intensity and thought process that

you have not won the game yet, even when you're up by X number of points with only a few minutes left. Well, and it kind of is a young team, old team situation too, I think. The Houston guys like, John Roberts has been at Houston for six years now. He's seen everything. He's not going to care if they're down nine with two minutes to go. Like that doesn't bother him. He's been in that situation before.

He understands how these games work, how they go. And I think it's one of those things where if you've got a bunch of younger players and things start to tighten up like that, they go, oh God, what do we do now? And the Houston guys, they already know what to do. Like they have no questions about like LJ Cryer again has seen all these situations before and I talked about this.

If you want to see my my preview video for the national title game, it's on the on three sports YouTube channel, but I talked about LJ Cryer has played in a national title game before. Like. He's already dealt with all of these things, so when he gets in a situation like that, it doesn't bother him. Yeah.

Um, as we talked about the like first round draft pick, uh, situation versus like veteran players who also going to play in the NBA. And like, I think that like, there's a certain level of, of how much you want to, uh, you know, build your team with young talent. And it's just like, I know that Duke had big guys, guys who were going to be in a position to compete at a high level in the NBA for a long time. But it did kind of feel like the experience that Houston had on the team, plus their insane talent, was the right combination to not give up in that moment. Like, I still think that Duke is a better basketball team than them. I think that Duke is the best team I've ever seen.

like I still think that Duke is a better basketball team than them. I think that Duke is the best team I've ever seen. Um, they were winning that game easily, uh, or not, I don't want to say easily, but they were firmly in control of that game for 90% of it. And they took their foot off the gas in a veteran team that knew how to make plays and never gave up on the game. Like I think that's, I mean, that's what happened. Like I don't know. Exactly what happened. So, and, and as you go into this Florida game, you wonder

Could the same thing happen but? Florida's a lot older Florida's got guys who've been through some stuff too, and I don't know that Florida which by the way had this situation Had to do its own comeback in the sweet 16. I don't know that they are going to have as many issues as that. Excuse me, the elite eight, it was the Texas Tech game that Florida had to come back. But I think that's going to make for a really great game tonight. And I think it's not sexy, but the winner of this game will be the team that gets more offensive rebounds and second chance points because that's

what Houston did to Duke and do is a decently good rebounding team, but Houston crushed them on the boards. You think about this. You got a 7 to Center who's going to be a lottery pick who had zero rebounds. That's what Houston does to you. Yeah, Andy, what's going on in Gainesville tonight? What are we doing? Like what's going on?

I the whole town I think went to San Antonio. I think it's empty. You can actually take the kids around the corner. Yeah, yeah, taking the kids to school today was very easy. There was very little traffic, so I wonder how many people were like, hey, let's go to San Antonio. I can tell you and River, grab that game time footage

because you can get tickets tonight, pretty good seats on game time for the national championship game, about 176 bucks. If you use that GT picks feature, it'll show you the best deals relative to the market. And there are some pretty good vantage points that you can get for $176. I was going through the list and that was the kind of lowest price. If you want to be along the side and.

It's a pretty good deal for a national championship game, so it may be that everybody in Gainesville hopped on game time and then hopped over to San Antonio. So we shall see. But if you want to use game time and look, maybe you're not going to the game tonight, but maybe you want to go see, I don't know, jelly roll in concert. Cause that was one of the first things that popped up when I hit the Game Time app today cause he's on tour right now. But you want to see him in concert.

Go to the Game Time app, use the code staples and you get $20 off your first purchase terms apply of course, but $20 after first purchase. When you use Game Time, use the code staples. Alright, alright. Let us talk about the game. Florida's one and a half point favorite. The total on this game is pretty low 141 and a half. That's about the final score of the Houston Duke game. That's about where that game landed. That's a game that Houston I think may win Like if it's 141 and a half for a

total, I think Houston's got confetti raining on it. If it goes higher than that, I think Florida does. Yeah, I Andy, we watched the Florida Auburn game together. Okay. And I was kind of blown away by how many possessions it felt like Florida gave away. And then it looked like, or it felt like to me that Florida was losing that game pretty considerably. And then you look down at the scoreboard and they're winning. Like, I don't know what that means in the grand scheme of things.

I think Houston's going to play defense that good and they'll be up in their faces and stuff. But I feel like if Florida, who played really hard against Auburn and, you know, got where it needed to go, can just take care of the ball. Like I feel like Auburn got every break as it pertained to like possession situations. Did that, did you feel that way watching that? Or is it just that Auburn got every break? I mean, they're like, there was a bad call that Thomas how would clearly a clean block and they called it a foul. But I don't know that Auburn got a lot of breaks. I thought what happened

is, and I'm interested to see how they call this particular game today, because Auburn was slapping at the ball. And that's what they do defensively. And they were causing a lot of havoc with the Florida Florida. They made Florida look very sloppy and I think Houston will try to do the same thing and so if the refs let them play, Florida may have some turnovers that they got to deal with. So Florida's going to have to take care of the ball. I think they're going to push the tempo which that's one thing they've done to teams is Florida tends to wear you out pushing that tempo. But it's interesting

because Florida can go 10 deep, but they only went 8 deep the other night against Auburn. So I don't think they're necessarily going to try to just wear Houston out. I think they're going to they're going to try to have a lot of possessions in this game because they know that Houston is going to defend them well and they're going to have to they just may not be super efficient offensively because of Houston. Yeah, well, I think too that like every 5050 ball

that felt like Auburn was getting it. It's not just something that comes in the in the form of turnovers or ref decisions. If there's a ball that's out there and people are slapping at it, I felt like Auburn did a very good job of getting it. And like the bottom line is that Walter Clayton Jr. played like Michael Jordan. Like I mean, I don't know if there's any good job of getting it. And the bottom line is that Walter Clayton Jr. Played like Michael Jordan. I mean, I don't know if there's any other way to put it.

He was awesome. And he scored 35 points, which is a heck of a lot in college. And he did it in a variety of different ways. Beautiful moves of the basket. Five for eight from three. And the question that I have is whether or not Florida needs another heroic performance from this guy in order to put itself in a position to win the game, like, or if that was just like the cherry on top, because without

this, without a Superman performance from him, Florida definitely would have lost to Auburn. Yes, they needed, they needed that. And Houston needs same from LJ cryer. That's what Houston has gotten from LJ cryer. The last two games, if they get it again, they got a real good chance of winning tonight. If they don't get that from L.J. Cryer, because he was the only one making shots consistently against Duke.

If they don't get that from him, it's going to be a struggle for Houston. But it's the same thing like what can Houston do in terms of defending Walter Clayton Jr.? The guy for Florida, who I think is the key to everything is Ruben Chinalu, which that's not a guy you'd normally say that about because he's kind of the dirty work guy, but he needs to match Houston's energy on the boards for Florida to have a chance to win this game.

Because if he can do that, then I think there's a really good chance that Florida keeps some possessions alive, has some second chance points. These are both good offensive rebounding teams and Ruben Chinlou made one of the biggest plays of the Auburn game with an offensive rebound off of this free throw. Yeah, that was a really nasty rebound too.

Yeah, so that's that's the thing like him and Joanne Roberts and Joe jokes. Hugler for Houston like who's going to do the dirty work the best in this game because whoever does is going to win and Alex Conda needs to to toughen it up a little bit, you know, even if it means throwing a bow in there to, you know, assert yourself. I thought that he chill who got a flagrant for throwing him. Yeah, in the Auburn game.

So I mean like it's crazy like no tent. No, nobody on Florida, you know, grab 10 rebounds in the Auburn game. So I mean, like, it's crazy, like, no, 10, no, nobody on Florida, you know, grab 10 rebounds in the Auburn game, which when you have that many tall players, it's pretty of a hard, it's pretty tough stat, like you said, so, so like, I don't know. So where are you leaning on this? I'm still going with Florida, because I just think they have more weapons. But I, it's, I don'm not sure like I was sure of it with Duke and Houston. Duke's got too many weapons. But Houston has made a

believer out of me in terms of they're going to be in this like this is not going to be a blowout. I don't know who's going to win. This is not going to be a blowout. And I think I think Houston is so good defensively that whether you want to play a high tempo or not, they're going to make you struggle. So I still think Florida has the weapons. And I think the difference between Florida and Duke

is Florida's old enough and experienced enough to not melt down in that situation. Whereas we didn't know what the freshman were going to do, and you saw what happened. And Florida's already shown in the tournament that they could be against the ropes or in what seems to be a certain... Like they're losing, certainly, and they didn't, you know, and part of that too was, you know, Walter Clayton Jr. being a hero again, but you know, that to me is huge. But when you look at just everything that Houston has too, like this is a very, very good, deep, old discipline team.

And it should be a hell of a game. I had two semi football related thoughts for you that I wanted to, you know, break down. Before that, I need I need your pick in this game. I'm probably just going to go with Houston because they beat Duke. I mean, they literally beat Duke. It's not a bad way to pick this game. It's really not analysis. Like I didn't think anybody was beating Duke. I paid the consequences for that both publicly in terms of the things

that I said, and then personally with how much money is coming on my bank account as a result of it. But like that was, I was driving back from the Final Four on Saturday night, and there was some traffic and it was kind of rainy. But I was driving back from the Final Four on Saturday night and there was some traffic and it was kind of rainy. But I was like looking down at the score for most of the game and Duke was in firm control. And then I like was getting a bunch of texts, like, okay, turn it on. I was like, I was turning it on

and I just watched the end of that. And it was just like, oh my God, I cannot believe this. But no, I'm gonna take Houston, maybe just in basketball more than, I mean, I don't know, maybe we're finding out in football to that like talent that is maybe not quite top end in terms of like first round draft pick. But talent that really, really good college level player who is in their third and fourth, fifth years is every bit as important as the young, dynamic freak that's

going to be gone in three. I don't know. Or maybe it's overcorrection of. Well, I think you wanted to make the football. Ohio State had both of those things in football last year. And I don't know that there are going to be a lot of teams that are able to combine both like that in any of these sports.

But I think that's exactly right, and I think it's more important in basketball because if you can make those superstars have a bad night, if you can make them melt down, then you can win anything. And I think a lot of the credit for that goes to Kelvin Sampson, who has done an incredible job finding players who fit his system and in this era. And so actually Ari, that brings up a guest. So we were in San Antonio on Saturday, we did a live show with water burger. It was

awesome. So much fun. We got very full. But one of my favorite people we talked to on that show was Landon Gosling, who's from the Linking Cougs Collective and Link U is the platform that they built for multiple schools. But this is a group of Houston alums. Landon played basketball at Houston. He was on Kelvin Sampson's team at one point. He was a GA for Kelvin Sampson as well. And we were talking to him and my thought was, Oh, this is a great interview, but Duke's going to beat them. And

we're not going to really get to talk about this much anymore. But I'm glad we get to talk about it. Because Landon explains in this interview, how Kelvin Sampson finds guys that, even in this era, can take the old-school coaching, can take the hard coaching, can deal with the kind of work and the selflessness that's required to play in, in this team environment. Yeah, it's really cool to actually talk to somebody who's like involved with the money aspect of this. And, you know, I thought that he was pretty upfront with, you know, how things are going. And he was having a hell of a time. I can't imagine what it would be like if you were a part of that and then your team was in the Final Four a time. I can't imagine what it would be like. Um, if you, uh, were a part of that and then your team was in the final four. And then now I can't imagine how he's feeling, but it was definitely cool to see

him, I think he has amazing hair. Uh, and, uh, yeah, I kind of gave him some stuff, but he said, he said he, he used to cut it like he used to buzz it and then just let it grow out one day. It was like, Oh, I got crud. That's how he winds up on the bachelor. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's been been it's been a blessed life for our guy. Landon. Yeah, I'd be like, I buzzed my hair like it's just an insult. But yeah, and then when we come back from this interview,

I want to talk about two football basketball things before we go to the next segment, because I want to know. Go to the go to the video and then we'll talk about those things when we get back. All right. And now by land and gossling of the link you collected, you guys have helped Houston to get here. And I got to ask what, you're a former Houston basketball

player. You actually were a grad assistant for Kelvin Sampson. What has it been like watching this program become what it is now? Man, it's been unbelievable. It's been special. I think I was talking to a bunch of folks in a lobby earlier today. It's like, this is what those June 1st workouts, everybody's heard about it, right? June 1st and a Kelvin Sampson workout, it's military style. Everyone's throwing up. Everyone's calling mom, like, why am I here? You know from day one you know

when you go down and break the huddle it's final four on three like that's the goal that's the standard in that program and I think we've been so close you know the last couple years so to finally get here you know it's a sense of accomplishment but it's like you know we belong here and we're not finished right we're trying to be here until Monday night. The thing that I think is interesting is like when you're you know we're gonna get back to the basketball questions I can't do this right now because I'm supposed to have the best hair on this podcast. What's going on with it? What a flow.

I can't, I can't take my eyes off of it. Funny story about that is I shaved my head for like all the way up until my sophomore year in college. And then one day my buddy and my mom, you know, they're sitting there talking, they're like, you probably should try to grow your hair out. Right. And so I started growing it out, realized I had a little bit of curls, which is not in the family. So I've stuck with it ever since and right? And so I started growing it out, realized I had a little bit of curls, which is not in the family.

So I've stuck with it ever since and it's worked. I mean, it's working really well. It's your handsome man. That's how you're going up in the bachelor. Yeah, yeah, definitely how I ended up on the bachelor. Short lived, but a great experience. And I'll save those stories for later. Yeah, Katie Thurston's just not smart

if she let you go, pal. Hey, I got a question. Lanny did fine for himself. It all worked out. Yeah, the curry's all right. That's question I do have though is like I don't think people realize or appreciate how much work goes in behind the scenes and assembling a roster, both making numbers work, picking the right people, the deployment of funds in the correct way and stuff. Can you take us into what it's like to be on that side of it? And how difficult is it to,

even if you have the money, to use it correctly to get to a, to build a team that's good enough to get here? You know, what's crazy about that is we're in such a unique position at the University of Houston with Coach Samson, right? He's like, he's an old school coach that, this program is all about culture.

And the kids that come, he always says it, if you don't want problems, don't recruit them, right? It sounds so simple, but he's done a tremendous job. And so the kids that come through this program is all about culture. And the kids that come here, he always says it, you know, if you don't want problems, don't recruit them, right? It sounds so simple, but he's done a tremendous job. And so the kids that come through this program, they want to get better. They want to get to the next level. And I think Milo's, Milo's who's had a perfect example, right? Came from Oklahoma in the last, you know, three or four months.

You know, he's, he's played himself into a really, really good spot, right? And so that, that, that, that whole process starts super early, right? But I think it all goes back to the trust factor playing for coach Samson being a grad assistant you know coach has a small circle and that trust factor is there and again we get kids that come to the university that want to be there that want to develop as young men as young leaders in the community and on the basketball court obviously well and and but how do they find guys like that because your coach is

complaining that though in the nil, that's very hard to do. But you watch Houston play and you just talk about the workouts that people have to go through. And then Kelva Sampson hasn't changed. So how do you find that type of person? And not necessarily that you recruit out of high school, but like an LJ Cryer who watched play at Baylor for three years. I think the answer to that is, and I won't get into too much of the secret, Saul, but it's doing due diligence and homework.

And again, I've been on both sides now, right, as a graduate assistant in kind of behind the scenes. And this is a true story. You know, in the office with Coach one day, crude and a kid, and he calls these schools and asks to speak to the lunch lady. This is a true story, right? What is this kid like?

How are his manners like? So that's how far coach goes into this process and how much in depth he looks for these kids and goes through the whole vetting process. And I don't know how he does it, but again, there's a secret sauce, but that's just a story that just still blows my mind to the day. The lunch lady might not have some nice things to say about me because I want myself down, but hey, that's really cool. For cool for you though personally like you said some sense of accomplishment do you feel really good right now about the way you guys are doing and yourself and how you did this I feel amazing you know they hang banners for Final Four again you know our work is not complete but I think you know a couple of things that

are different about this team is one we're healthy right like the last several years we've been down at least one starter sometimes multiple starters and then we're just balanced right we have multiple guys that can go out and get it on a night-to-night basis we're not so dependent on one player I think we've always been there defensively one of the best teams in the country but offensively this year I mean we're the second third best three-point shooting team in the country so they're flowing they're playing their best basketball in March and as coach Samson says now we're 40 minutes away from being 40 minutes away.

So how has this process evolved? And obviously we're sitting here Saturday. Monday is gonna be a very different day for you guys in the collective world. How much has the world changed between 2021 and now? It's unbelievable. I mean, it's already starting, right? We're in the final four,

but we're already dealing with everything everything right ross retention you know what's everything going to look like and i'm heavily involved in a process last forty eight hours right it's like it's the way college uh... athletics is shifted and it's changed a lot just since i got in the nl space when it first started right now i think again it goes back to having a special culture a special program and having a special leader in the sense of let me ask you this. This is all changing still, right? There's some pretty big changes in terms

of how players are going to be compensated right around the corner here. How do you think that's going to impact you and what you guys are doing? I think for us, it's a day-to-day. It's a day-to-day, sometimes hour-to-hour process, right? And I think we positioned ourselves. We set it from day one to do NIL the right way.

And I think if it's done the right way, there's so many good things that can come out of it. But we have to be quick on our toes and things change, like I said, by the hour. So we're positioned ourselves to be able to do that, but always lean and know that we're doing it the right way. We're developing young men, and we always say our biggest goal is to bridge the gap

for when these guys are done playing and they enter the real world. And it gives them, that's probably my biggest joy to this point is seeing the growth in these young men the last two years. You know, the first time we go do an NIL experience, you know, two or three years ago, everybody's on their phone and then to see the growth and now everyone's phones in their pocket. It's a race to go talk to the business owner. It's a race to go talk to the supporters, right? How's your wife? How's your family? That

goes so far with these guys. So to see their growth has been unbelievable. How do you handle the push and pull? Like your partner Austin is a former football player You've obviously got to help coach Fritz and his team too How does how does that work out of the conversations go between you guys and coach Samson and coach Fritz and then your ad? I think it all goes back again to the culture I think the number one thing is coach Samson has been such an advocate for coach Brits in his program because coach Brits is a He's very similar to coach Samson. He's all ball coach. He's gonna teach the right things, develop young men and be all about culture. Right? And so we know as a university, you know, to take the next step, we've got to get our football

program there. And Coach Sampson has been the number one advocate for that. So, you know, they say they say, uh, I can't remember the phrases, but all are raising tides, lift all boats somewhere along those lines. But I know that coach has been coach. Sampson's been so heavy on on pushing coach birch and the culture and again support from the football standpoint because at the university that's how we take the next step. Thank you for the perfect segue because my foaming at the mouth talk about football a little bit. So I do think that's interesting when you say you know the rising tide lifts all boats and stuff. How much does basketball and being on tv, being in the final four help football?

And then the other part to this too is, Andy and I talk about this all the time as it pertains to the Big 12. It feels like it's like a wide open race on which team now is going to take that conference over, be the next. And it seems on paper, if you were just like starting at the year zero right now, that Houston would have all the things that you would want, especially being located in one of the most densely populated cities in the country for high school football talent. What do you think the ceiling is for that football program? And how does this help that ceiling? Well, I think the ceiling is goes back to Coach versus history. He's won everywhere he's been right in the football.

You're dealing with 100 kids opposed to 15. And I think as you guys can see, the recruits that we're getting, the kids we have coming in, you know, they talk about all the time. We got to win the grassroots first. Right. So we have to win and recruit our backyard and win in the city of Houston, the getting, the kids we have coming in, you know, they talk about it all the time. We gotta win the grassroots first, right? So we have to win and recruit our backyard and win in the city of Houston, the state of Texas before we go elsewhere. And so I think it's starting to trend in the right direction.

I'm really excited about this football season with Coach Brits at the helm, you know, and Coach Sampson right there backing him. And also, you know, Eddie, our AD, Eddie Nunez has been absolutely tremendous in this process and has been very at the forefront of NIL and kind of a call to action of, hey, we need you guys to step up in a big way.

To your point, we're playing in the Big 12 that we believe is the best conference in college athletics, and we can go out and compete for championships in both football and in basketball. So here's my question. Obviously, you don't want to get ahead of yourself, but if you win tonight and Florida wins tonight, your AD is an ex-Florida basketball player. How is he going to handle that? He's going to be

wearing red and he's going to be saying go Cougs. I actually had a conversation with him that's funny, but you know he's all in from day one. He's been all in leaning on the people that have been there, but also you know speaking up, being at the forefront and getting engaged in the community. I think it's been very important and so we had some great people that laid been there, but also, you know, speaking up, being at the forefront and getting engaged in the community, I think has been very important. And so we had some great people that laid the foundation, but I think, you know, we're taking the next step here and putting Houston on this national stage is just unbelievable for the, for the university and for the city of Houston. Laina, we got a little something for you. We got these custom water burger basketballs.

That is for you to take home and put that right in the foyer of your house. So first thing that anybody looks at when they come into your place. Look at that thing. My front room I have a big office with all my jerseys for my former players and basketballs. So this is going to fit right in and this is awesome. Shout out to water burger man. My wife was over there eating about three burgers.

She's going to get mad at me for saying that but we love water burger. Well awesome. Well hopefully maybe it'll be a commemorative of a national championship run. Who knows? Let's do it. Let's do it. We're 40 minutes away from being 40 minutes away. Yeah.

Well, you know the thing that I think you're in a good position is you want this moment to last forever because it's great. You get the second game. You can watch the first game as a little bit of an appetizer and then you can enjoy the evening. When we shut these cameras off, just give me what your hair product guy is and we'll be in good shape. But thank you. As soon as the camera's off, I'll keep it inside. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much for having me here, man. I really appreciate you. Appreciate you. That's Landon Gosling from Linkin Cougs and the Link U. So they part of the collective

that is bankrolling Houston basketball and Houston football and Ari you had some some thoughts that combine the worlds of basketball and football. Yeah. So one, I don't know how far back you want to go but in terms and like I know like Florida isn't the banner of success right now in football but Florida, the best athletic department in the Rev sports in in in the country now like is this is that a fair thing to say or like when you look at the not until they show something in football

I guess it just goes back to how far you want to go right like cuz it's yeah, I Michigan's up there. Yeah, your basketball team is pretty good Yeah, yeah, I just that way. This is like a conversation and it's something that I think about every time. Something like this happens when a football school gets this point because ever since what year was it when Ohio State in Florida played both times to 06, right? Well, it was the 06 football season, the 0607 basketball season when they met for the championship in basketball.

Yeah, Alabama is on that list right now. Yeah, Alabama is on that list right now. Tennessee is on that list right now. But I would argue Florida's been a better basketball school since 2008 than it has a football school because they've had an elite eight appearance. They've had two final four appearances since then. So I think that's the difference is Florida's been pretty good at basketball. They had a little bit of a lull, but they've been consistently good. And then the follow up

question to that is even if it's not Florida, it's somebody else. Can a school change what type of school it is? I was eating lunch with somebody who went to IU yesterday, Indiana. I figured this is where this is going and I'm I don't who went to IU yesterday, Indiana. I figured this is where this is going. And I'm, I don't know if it's possible, but he said, Yeah, well, we're a football school now, funny enough. And it's like, I don't know if he was like joking in the sense of like, we're, we're not doing really well in basketball right now. And there's a coaching situation, all that. But like, can a school change what it is? Or does it happen? I think if you're, if you're already a football school, you're always a football school.

Okay. You can be good at basketball. Like you can win national championships in basketball because being good at basketball doesn't cost nearly what it costs to be good at football. So if you're good at football or you're a football school, which means you're rich because you got to have a lot of money to be a school that really cares about football. You can put the money toward basketball to be good at basketball.

Do you think you could ever rewire fans' brains to prioritize one over the other based on continuing? Yes, I'm telling you right now, if Kentucky competed for the SEC, started suddenly competing for the SEC title in football every year, Kentucky would be a football school. It's a football podcast.

So we're going to be football snobs, but you think it ever could go the other way where it's football to basketball. I guess you had a really good football program and you just haven't been good for decades. That's pretty much the only way. Yeah, I'm trying to think like if Nebraska got really really good at basketball like no, not a chance. Yeah, okay.

So like Florida won four out of the next eight national titles and went to the final four or five times in eight years. Do you think that in year nine they would care more about basketball? The lead conversation on every bar still would still be about how's the football team doing? Yeah, cuz it's like if Indiana gets good at football, I really do believe that Indiana could rewire its brain collectively.

I think football just takes over everything. Football is all encompassing. It is so big. I think it just just think about how many people are in the stadium on game day. Like it's just a bigger event. It's a bigger sport. And I think that's why. So if you get good at football, you can't why. So if you get good at football.

You can't escape it. Once you're good at football, like it is everywhere you go, especially in these little university towns. And do you think that even at basketball schools like like North Carolina or even Duke? And maybe those are like the biggest,

most basketball through and through schools in the country. Yeah, if you ask their fans in an honest moment, would you rather be in a college football playoff run or a run to the final four? Do you think they would pick football because that's more of a longer sustained feeling like Indiana's feeling of like making a run last year was two and a half months. Whereas in the NCAA tournament, that's a three week fleeting feeling like that. It's like more it's a slower burn in football. three week fleeting feeling like that. It's like more. It's a slower burn in football. It is. It is. And it feels like it lasts the whole year. And really, like it does because what Indiana did last year in football, we will talk about all off season and they can turn into a pumpkin again.

But that they'll have had a year of that. So I don't think they're going to turn into a pumpkin again, by the way. I'm very excited about Fernando Mendoza. We'll talk about all that stuff in the off season. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, maybe maybe I'm wrong, but is a NCAA tournament run fleeting? Well, because you can get hot. Now, here's the thing. Like, this is not a case of Florida just getting hot. They were really good all season. Obviously, Houston has been good for years. Houston's been great for years. And so you can have a good run

or you can have a one particular great player or set a player. Florida's two national championships in basketball are because they had one of the greatest recruiting classes of all time that when it got signed, nobody knew was one of the greatest recruiting classes of all time that when it got signed, nobody knew it was one of the greatest recruiting classes of all time, because none of those guys were particularly highly ranked.

Cory Brewer was the highest ranked of the bunch, and it's like, oh, they took Tito Horford's kid and Yannick Noah's kid, like, okay, whatever. And then you saw them play together, and they're like, oh my god, these guys are awesome. But a lot of that was because of one great recruiting class. Yeah. Like you can't do that in football. It doesn't work that way.

And you could all, you could conceivably go back. Now, Billy Donovan, of course, is a hall of fame coach. So Florida stayed good after that, but you could have had a situation like that in basketball where that happened and then you just sort of fell off again. I mean, I guess the Florida thing was a stupid question because I have like personal experience with this. Like I covered football and basketball at the same time for four or five years. Arizona. No, at Ohio State.

Oh, Ohio State, yeah. I'll be right or believe it or not. And there was, I'll never forget this, but Ohio State made it to the final four one year. I can't remember what year it was now because I'm not much for memory and recalling things as you know, but it was. If only we had a way to look things up like the entire compendium of human knowledge on a machine that fits in our pocket.

Yeah, I know, but you'd have to do that in advance and I didn't know I was gonna say this. That's the beauty of the show. Like we are talking, it's conversational. I don't have my talking points planned out before we sit down, I just am talking to my buddy. That's why when I talk, you look up. That's how it works. Yeah. But the, I remember, it wasn't a final four run year, but I think it was 2012 when they had John Diebler and David

Leidy and all those guys who lost to Kentucky in the Sweet 16. And I remember I wrote like a big feature about David Lighty or John Diebler, who's now the head coach, funny enough, or John Diebler's brother is the head coach, funny enough. But I spent months reporting this big feature on basketball, right? Talking to people back home, I went, I went back to the hometown. You know, I wanted to unveil this in the NCAA tournament. And I think like in the sweet 16, I, you know, how the old newspaper thought was report a big feature, have it filed, and then we're going to run it the day of the event. When they had the game. Exactly. Right.

So I did that. And you know, that was like right at the beginning of like online numbers. But as you know, the NCAA tournament at times, especially deep runs coincide with spring football. And Ohio State's backup left guard, I think, either tore his ACL or hurt his leg. It wasn't even a starter. And I wrote a 300 word newser of like, this is what happened at spring football today. And that got 10 times more views in the feature I spent two months reporting. And from that point on, I was just like, I'm done with it. Like not done. It was my job. Like it was like, you know, where your butter, where your bread is buttered and like that's where you need to focus your

attention because that's what people care about. I'm glad you said that because right now we're going to talk about Florida some more, but not the basketball team. We're going to talk about a guy who's from the Metro Houston area. Well, kind of outside, a little outside Metro Houston, but close. Who has played for Florida. He's quarterback might've heard him DJ like way we ran into our friend Chris during from the SEC network, all time great Florida wide receiver. And he of course was there to enjoy the basketball game, but he's about to get, you know, full on into spring football, talking SEC football. They've got shows planned for later in the week at the SEC network.

So he's been doing his homework. And of course, he's in Gainesville. He's watching things. He's hearing all the same things talking about everybody talking about DJ Lagway shoulder. What's going to happen now? So we grab Chris and said, sit down, have some water burger, bring home the W with water burger.

By the way, before we get to Chris, double points still tonight if you order water burger. So you can order those water wings, like I beat Ari in a water wings eating contest. Just demolished some water wings. The mushroom Swiss burger, oh my god, it is so good. We had James Sanchez, their their executive chef explaining how he created the Mushroom Swiss Burger and then made it scalable on a massive

scale. It was awesome. So order your water burger tonight for the National Championship game. Double points when you order tonight at Water Burger. So we saw Chris, we said, hey, come have some Water Burger samples. And we got to talk some spring football. We got to talk some DJ Lagway. And that's exactly what we did. Here is Chris Dore.

We came to San Antonio, but listen, we got to talk some football when Chris Doering walks by. The greatest walk-on wide receiver in the history of the SEC. He held the SEC touchdowns record until some guy named Devontae Smithburger. How we doing Chris? 25 years man. I mean, I feel like that's a backhanded compliment to the greatest walk-on wide receiver.

Although I take great pride in that man. You know that's a walk-on what you gotta go through. So the difference between you as a walk-on and me as a walk-on quite fast. It worked out alright for you, bro You're doing a good job yourself, bro. You know, I gotta say I think I would take your game over to Monty Smith So anyway, I don't know about that dude. I love that guy man to have your record broken It's kind of a it's a weird feeling but by somebody that was that Talented and that good of a guy and that good of a leader man It was it was an honor to kind of follow that chase for a while

I'll say this to have your record broken by a person who won the Heisman trophy puts into perspective what you did and what you Accomplished with congratulations on that. I appreciate it man. It was such a fun time because you think about you know I was one of you start my career Willie Jackson and Jack Jackson Harrison Houston on the Ike of the start of my career, Willie Jackson, Jack Jackson, Harrison Houston, on to Ike Hilliard and Redel Anthony, Jack West Green, Travis McGrip. We had such a good group of wide receivers at that time. To think about what we were all able to do together is pretty impressive.

So let's talk a little spring football because that's going on right now. They're finishing up spring practice in Gainesville. There's spring games coming up. Where are you in terms of concern about, you know, DJ Lagway resting the shoulder all spring? I'm not concerned about that at all. You know, whatever the procedure was or whatever happened in the off season, I

think they're doing a good job of managing him. I was at practice, got a chance to watch how involved he was, even when he's not getting reps. So this is a guy, the thing I think I liked the most about him, Andy, is like what he does to elevate the play of the people around him. And maybe more so holding them accountable. I'm not gonna lie. There were a lot of guys that weren't as disciplined and committed to winning football games in the last couple of years.

And I think the accountability that DJ's brought to that team is helping raise the level of expectation for everybody. Is it a matter of guys just going don't want to mess up when there's this potentially special QB here? Yeah, I think I look at it's like the Pied Piper effect. Everybody wants to be a part of the DJ lagway experience. So the portal, they killed it in the portal, the retention of the roster. And again, that's like, hey, we got a chance to be special. That last like month of the season, I think was a great prelude for what can happen this year. Now, I'm not convinced that everything that ailed them

last year is fixed, but I'm optimistic that they can build on that finish. Well, we have to acknowledge, and it's good to get a different perspective on DJ, because whenever we have a podcast mailbag episode, or even today when people are asking questions it's Florida fans freaking out like what does that mean that DJ is not practicing it's a pivotal spring for him if you can offer a word of encouragement maybe outside of what you just said of

to Florida fans specifically about where he is and where the team is what would you tell them I think spring practice is very different for different players where you are in the development of your career. The experience that he got last year was, you know, you can't, it's invaluable. Now, I don't think anybody will ever acknowledge what Graham Mertz did for this program, and specifically from DJ Lagway,

but the mentorship that he provided, he doesn't need to go through the spring practice like he was taking over as the first year starter. This guy got great experience last year. And those two dudes collaboratively in terms of helping him become a pro, I don't think people will ever talk enough about what Graham did for DJ.

So in terms of what this team can do, Ari and I have talked about it, it feels like the highest floor and lowest, sorry, lowest floor and highest ceiling team in college football because Like we were talking about the other day if they could make a playoff If they could win ten games against that schedule that means they're a national title contender But they could also potentially be six and six or you know seven and five again I think you look at the the Vegas over-under on wins

I think six and a half last year was like four and a half Which I thought was a little low and in the start of the season after Miami and Texas A&M, it didn't look like they were going to get to three wins, let alone seven or eight. But I look at this year, it's such an undetermined schedule. It's really challenging again. You got to go to Miami this year instead of getting them at home, but I think every year is different and in the SEC, especially now with the transfer portal and how different teams can be from year to year, I think it's very difficult to gauge. The thing that I always wonder about Florida this offseason, I know that there's a lot put into it. I'm very high.

I've drank a gallon of the DJ Lague Kool-Aid. Like I've talked about him as being maybe the best player in college football next year Are the receivers good enough coming in from your perspective? Yeah, I mean, I think everybody's excited about what they did both in the recruiting Class that they signed this year and in the portal student event is somebody got everybody kind of buzz in there But you know, I go back to last year the improvement was offensively In a little bit, but it was more about the defense's improvement I think the defense was miserable against Miami and Texas saying and they were getting blown off the line of scrimmage Like I don't know if I've ever seen a better

Resurgence of a defensive line than what we saw last year So as much as we want to talk about the DJ lagway effect I really think it's about the defense. And I'm interested to see, obviously, Austin Armstrong moves on. Ron Roberts is the guy. But I think this team will go as far as the defense can carry them, in my opinion.

Yeah, that's why when Caleb Banks said he was coming back, I said, forget the portal or anything else. That might be the biggest pickup in the offseason, as this guy didn't go to the draft. Yeah, no, I think that was he was massive last year obviously, but I Piper and leaving is disappointing to me because of his catered them and I think that's the most distinct illustration of What college athletics is like now? It doesn't matter about allegiances. It's all about that paycheck and opportunities

So I do I do think that that Florida's defense is going to be stout again And love the fact that Caleb banks decided to come back So you mentioned Jack Piper and he's going LSU and you and I were talking before we started recording About how good LSU could be because of what they did in the portal. They bring back Garrett Nussmeyer That Florida LSU game week three for both teams seems just absolutely massive. Isn't it weird too to think about playing LSU that early in the season and playing Tennessee that late in the year? I mean, it's as a Florida guy, I had to live through forever listening

to Tennessee fans say, if we played you at the end of the year, we'd beat you, which they did in 2001 after the 9-11 rescheduled game, but it's gonna be a different season this year But I love what that game will kind of lay out for the rest of the year How much that game is important and with the elimination of the divisions? I think it makes that game even more elevated in level of importance. What have you seen from Billy Napier? He's not in a very easy situation right now last year felt like he was kind of at the end of the road And then he got the vote of confidence the end of the road and then he Got the vote of confidence another year. Like how do you think he's handling the pressure?

but also maybe the second chance and having a chance to maybe Seize that opportunity. I think the thing that's crazy to me is maybe one of the biggest indictments is actually what saved his job and that's the the Assistant coaches that he's surrounding so I think if there would have been and that's the the assistant coaches that he's surrounding so but I think if there would have been Somebody they could have handed the job over to that Maybe they would have made a move and had an interim coach carry them the rest of the way I'm glad they didn't I love Billy Napier. I think he is is a great guy I think he's passionate about what he's doing

I do think there still needs to be some tweaks involved in terms of the the coaching staff but I to be some tweaks involved in terms of the coaching staff. But I think at the end of the day, man, this is a guy that loves being a gator. And I think they kind of welcome being the underdog. We're here to celebrate Florida's final four appearance. This is a team that has a bunch of chips on their shoulder, as Todd Golden talked about. And I feel like Florida's kind of the same way

under Billy Napier. And I think he's embraced being that underdog in a way. So we're running this on Monday. There will be an SEC team playing for the national title in basketball on Monday night. But you guys at the SEC Network are going to ship back to football very quickly. We talk a lot about Florida, but who else in the SEC

are you really excited to see in terms of their evolution from last year to this year? I mean, you and I talked about Auburn. Auburn's going to be an interesting team. You know, I think they fell way short of what we expected last year. I'm kind of excited about Texas A&M as well. I love, we were talking the other day about

with Buzz moving on from College Station, I think it takes a very specific type of person to coach at Texas A&M and be successful. Mike Elko is that guy at Texas A&M, so I think it's a great fit there. I'm interested to see what Oklahoma does. I don't know if there's a more hot seat in the SEC than Brent Venables. I think certainly Billy Napier could get hot if things don't go well early in the year.

But the amount of pressure on these teams and on these coaches now, it's kind of crazy to think about. We haven't had the big mass exodus of coaches like we did a couple years ago. I think what was interesting that you said is that in SEC football or just college football in general, year over year, it's different, right? Because of how many players are coming and going. When you think about all the teams in the SEC that could be completely different than

they were a year ago. Auburn, I think, is one that jumps out to we we ranked Auburn in the top 15, right? All right He's like some of those some of those one possession games that didn't work out for them They're slightly better to win in those and then they got a lot better at positions that they were weak at last year Oklahoma's another interesting one that you mentioned and I'm wondering like last year obviously the SEC had a down year But like can you see if things come together the SEC returning back to what it is? When you say they had a down year what what it's funny what yeah yeah let's talk about it you know the metric

is number of teams in my opinion that are actually built to compete at the highest level that was down last year usually like Florida has I mean sorry the SEC always has a higher floor than everybody else their ceiling as a conference last year wasn't as high as it typically is. Yeah, you know, I talked to Garth Glysmann, the head of the SEC basketball operation, about what defining a successful season in basketball is. With all these teams we got in the tournament, he said it's all about championships. That's what Commissioner Sankey has talked about. And I think you go back to football, like, do you judge the competitiveness from top to bottom? I

don't know if we've ever seen a deeper league than what we saw in football last year in the SEC, but at the same time you didn't. I don't think Tennessee ran into a buzz saw with Ohio State, but I still don't think they have the line of scrimmage play that they need to have. I think they were exposed a little bit on the outside of the receiver position, But no, I think South Carolina is an interesting team. We talk about, you know, what they're there did at the end of the year, how would they were fair. They have a cool when you have a quarterback that gives you an opportunity to compete. I think South Carolina is a team we probably need to talk about a little bit more than we have. Yeah, Lenora Sellers is the other quarterback that I just cannot wait to see. How big of a jump does he make from year one

as a starter to year two? Are you concerned about anything with him as it relates to losing some of the momentum that he had? Like, early in the season, I don't think he was great, but I thought he got a lot better. I thought the pieces around him, the offensive line wasn't great. I had this disagreement with Coach a lot last year.

But I do think that they've gotten a little bit better on the offensive line, but they that Clemson game He single-handedly won himself despite the lack of protection. Let's you play the video game We're just waiting for Nick Harbor to become the player. He's in the video game Is that I feel bad for Nick Harbor in a way with the amount of pressure and expectation on him based upon his size and Speed everything else like I do think that You know, he'll take a big jump forward this year though. I catch against Alabama I watched the condensed version of Alabama, South Carolina yesterday just there kind of refresh my memory It's there if he wants to tap into it. It's there and that's the thing. It's all about consistency

I mean, you know this like you can't have the peaks in the valleys You got to have the consistency and I think he's shown glimpses of what he can be, but he's got to play more consistently that way. So yeah, it's going to be a really good year. Any expectations on your side or talking points in the sec that we're missing or that you don't that you like I've seen like a gap in the coverage up. It's so, it's so wild, man. I've been so entrenched in this basketball run that Florida's been on the SEC for the entire season I'll do a show on Friday about the spring games coming up on the weekend like usually I'm getting ready to do spring games and with everybody kind of

shutting them down from the TV it's like a totally different SEC's just means more basketball too well it means less in spring games. See this is from walk-on to walk-on like now you didn't you became a star and didn't have to worry about this but the spring game was where your trait killings were to the world. The Florida people from back in the day knew what I'm talking about. You know this though like the spring game even for your walk-on or scholarship guy the ability to prove that you're ready to play, to make a jump from being maybe a younger guy to being ready to be counted on. Spring games are the best facsimile of what you're going to go through on a game day.

And so I know that they'll do that, but not having it televised, not having the hoopla around it, I think takes away a little of that experience. It's less fun. I'm with Deion and Fran Brown. Let's figure out a way to have them play together I mean though doesn't that sound like it's gonna get done based upon what they say to say We it's not enough time to let everybody else do it, but I guarantee next spring We're gonna have those interspore games and we're gonna be going to him. I think I can't wait I can't wait and hopefully it'll get us back doing television during the spring because I feel so far removed from it that You know, it doesn't feel like a normal April says there's too many good basketball teams in the SEC let's be real here Chris probably that too which I'm okay with man and then we'll transition right into baseball with the SEC getting you know five or six teams to Omaha as well well what you

in between shoot up Pat Bradley and and Ben McDonald though I'm all right with that it's so much fun to see like I'll watch on Fridays and Saturdays in the SEC network. They're all sitting in our same seats, but it's like they got great analysts after great analysts. And I come in the SEC network for what they've done to accumulate talent. Move the camera up because Ron Slay so much taller than the rest. Nothing better than going out with Slay. Slay hosted us in Nashville, man. We had a great time. So love the talent we have. We need that show where you all get together. Like, you get Ron Slay and Ben McDonald and you and Roman Harper, all of you together.

So you missed it. We had that in a many way down the Palmas for Alyssa Lange's wedding last weekend. Roman Harper was there, Stephanie Sorensen, Tory Vidalas. So we had a bunch of different analysts from a different sports. And it was like a bunch of different analysts from a different sports and it was like a collision of all the world. I'd like to see the SEC Network Party.

Oh hell yeah. I'll say this too. We also had Eli Drinkwitz just happened to be down at the Bahamas so he came and met us too. Like a surprise wedding crash. Well and I know, knowing Alyssa and her now husband Trey, they like to get after it. They also like to eat so I'm hoping they had wedding well, I know knowing Alyssa and her now husband Trey they They like to get after it. They also like to eat So I'm hoping they had like a donut truck or something good that that's where you'll go ahead and make that connection

They they're big foodies, but she said after the wedding she goes look I've checked all the boxes You can't get mad at me if I don't go out anymore. She's like a she's like the oldest 31 year old There is she wants to go dinner at 5 o'clock and be in bed by nine o'clock I'm like come on. It's not it's not that she's the oldest 31 year old It's that you are the youngest and I'm not even gonna say the number Because I am younger than you by about five years, and I'm way older than you in my mind. I'm still 21 I'm 51 right now, but I got my son out here I got my daughter's boyfriend and we're gonna have we have a big weekend man

I want to make sure you get some water burger on the way out of here alright I need some water burger And I need some water if they can provide those things I'd be in good shape what Chris storing will be mixing in waters Oh, we have a gift for you. Oh, it's just for you a memorative water burger basketball That's amazing right there, it's just my That's amazing right there. It's just mine for real. You have to keep that. Yeah, I love it. Hey, thank you, Waterburger. Thank

you guys for having me. Thanks for being here, man. Really appreciate it. Thank you, Chris. Thank you. That is Chris Doering and uh not worried about DJ Lagway's shoulder which he might be the only one because it feels like everybody else in this town is worried about it. Are you worried about it? I went back and checked

again as one tends to do when one hears rumors and such and nothing has changed on DJ Lagway shoulder. Nothing has changed. The situation remains the same. They're resting it. He probably will begin throwing again early summer. And, you know, I think if he's fully healthy, they're in good shape. It's only if it becomes a problem during the season

that it's a problem. So if this keeps it from becoming a problem during the season. What Chris said, Andy, is the importance of spring football being different for everybody, right? Like if you played a ton, obviously if you, you know, pay attention or cover a team, usually the veterans aren't necessarily as integrated in the contact drills and in the spring as some of the younger players. It's bigger, so the question I guess I have for you is,

where do you perceive DJ Lagway to be in his career? Did what he play, or did what he do while he played last year, was that enough for you to feel like he doesn't even need to be in the contact stuff, or the contact stuff, or do you think that right now? Well, he's a quarterback, so he's not gonna be in contact stuff anyway. No, I know, but I just mean like involved in high like right now? Well he's a quarterback so he's not gonna be in contact stuff anyway but

I just mean like involved in like high intensity reps where he's behind center right they're not gonna blow him up but like for him to be in the line on the rushing is an important like rep and I just don't know where you are where you think you he is or where you are on how important the spring would be for his personal development from a physical standpoint. Well I think it wouldn't hurt mean, he was the starter for half a year. So yes, you would want him to have a full off season as the starter, getting all of the reps that you would expect that the starter to get during the off season. So it is a, that part of it is a concern, but I also went back and watched the

condensed versions of Florida LSU and Florida Ole Miss last week. Producer River and I were hanging out waiting for you to get there. And it was jarring rewatching that. Like seeing the difference between him and what they've had at quarterback for the last few years. And so, and we also rewatched the Florida 10C game, which you rewatch that and you go, oh we also rewatched the Florida Tennessee game, which

you rewatch that and you go, Oh, if DJ Lagway starts that game, Florida probably wins that game because they probably score one. They probably have one more score, whether it's a touchdown or a field goal early. Cause remember, I think that game was, was scoreless at halftime. I think Florida would have scored some points in the first half had DJ Lagway been in there and they may win that game. So it's I think the entire story about Florida and DJ Lagway and we might not get the answer to this is the Georgia game. I think everything that Florida is looking for and everything that they want can be found in that game. You mean where he got hurt and carted off the first half?

Yeah, exactly. They were competitive with Georgia and I felt like they were gonna win even without him. They were competitive with George after he got hurt. Like that was the craziest part of that game is if they would have had him for four quarters. I think they probably would have won that football game. And I think that that is exactly where Florida has to be for them to be happy with Billy. And like, I think that that whole game right there is the epitome of what we're talking about, of Florida could be what it almost was a year ago and what it might be this year and if it's that this year in every game or in 10 of the 12 they're going to be in a pretty good position so exactly and that's the thing so

what I'm told about the shoulder is that it's a rest situation it's not a surgery situation and that He will get back to throwing probably, you know, within a couple of months. So if that's what happens, then they should feel good. If that timeline changes, then yeah, probably worry. So we'll just have to see what happens, but. Let's move from quarterbacks who will start in college next year to quarterbacks who may start in the NFL next year. Yeah. Our guy, Dane Bruegler at the athletic reporting

that Jalen Milro has been invited to attend the NFL draft in Green Bay, which has accepted. Yeah, has accepted an invitation. So that means first round green room. Now here's the thing about the first round green room. The NFL does not want a Will Levis situation to happen ever again. They do not want somebody who's at the green room to be falling asleep because they're not getting picked in the first round. And the suggestion here is that if he has accepted this invitation, he feels very confident he's getting picked in the first round. And that the NFL is very confident that one of its teams will pick him in the first round. Yes, that's kind of an interesting thing cuz I think that we knew that he was

gonna probably play his way or test his way into a pretty high pick. I did not envision it being first round. Uh, and I'm wondering if that is a case of teams needing a quarterback, um, and they're not being a ton of options, or if this is a case of Jalen Milrow, who people view as like the reason Alabama didn't make the playoff last year is a productive potential NFL starter, which is an interesting thought because you know what's the number one criticism that people have with him that he can't throw the intermediate pass and that he's not an accurate one and also

that it'll walk his way into sacks. So like to me it's like do you feel like that's something that can be fixed? We've seen quarterbacks become more accurate, but it's been rare. I think Josh Allen is the number one example of a player who wasn't terrible. I don't know. I mean, Jalen hurts wasn't an elite level passer when he was at Bama. And now I think he's got one of the nicest, I mean, he throws passes in the NFL on a weekly basis that make my jaw drop. So like, I don't know.

I mean, Jalen and Jalen get compared. Obviously, there's a lot of things to compare them with their name, their school, where they're from. They're both from Texas. Yeah, I just I wonder if like, this is a player that is as physically gifted as anybody who plays that position that that GMs and scouts and coaches believe that they can, you know, fine tooth comb, whatever you want to say into a really good NFL quarterback. And I'm also wondering, too, if the Jaden Daniels impact of it, which is a player who can run really, really well, is becoming again, the more attractive, you know, type of NFL quarterback prospect that teams need and they feel like in the late first round that that's a worthy.

You know swing to take. I'll throw another name out there though. Now obviously Jalen Muro has a lot more college experience than Anthony Richardson did when the Colts took him at number four. Anthony Richardson was viewed as kind of a once in a generation physical freak prospect, not necessarily because of what he did on the football field. It was his physical attributes just don't exist anywhere else. And that's why he got, that's why he

got picked there. There's a little bit of that with Milro because of his speed, because of his arm strength. And I think that's probably what's carrying the day here, but. I don't I would not pick any quarterback in the first round who isn't cam orders, sugar centers. I'm just saying that right now. The fact that Jalen Milro is going to the green room suggests that he's going to the first round. There may be another one too. It just, it depends because there's a lot of quarterback needy teams like.

Could this be the Steelers at 21? Could the Browns not take Chidor and then take Milro at 24? I thought a few mocks of like the Browns trading into 24 to take him there. I don't know like it depends on how bad you need quarterback, but also to like if you take somebody that you feel comfortable with it too and you want to give up some draft capital to take a swing like I think that's probably a better use of a draft pick than using him in the you know with your only pick.

Yeah, and I want to point out you were not comparing Jalen Milro to Jaden Daniels. You were saying NFL teams may want. Yeah, better running QB because Jaden Daniels showed you can. I think there needs to be a distinction made to on the type of runner that Cam Newton was and you know,

Kim Newton had a long a lot of long breakaway explosive plays on the ground. I'm not saying that, but Cam Newton was a big physical pound on 4th and two type of guy. And the closest thing that we have to that in the NFL in terms of running at this point is Josh Allen,

who's also a tremendous pattern. Jalen Hurts is, Jalen Hurts is also. Jalen Hurts too. I mean, they do the tush push, but like do you, they run Jalen Hurts like the way that they used to run camp a lot? I don't know. I mean, maybe.

Yes, Jalen Hurts is one of their main options on third and fourth and short. And so, but that, cause he's built for that. Like I'm wondering like if Lamar Jackson, Jaden Daniels type of elusiveness and speed is the more attractive running option at quarterback than it is the big bulky pound him. Right. And, and, and Jalen Melrose actually sort of

splitting the difference between those two. Cause Melrose not slight like Lamar and Jaden are, he's not the power lifter that Jalen Jaylen hurts is video game is any indication. He's Cam Newton, Michael Vick and Jayden. So I don't like he's the most lethal NCAA video game. And every time I play Alabama online, I just die a little inside because I know what's coming. The only quarterback where we're spying him and edging out the rushers to contain him

doesn't work and it's impossible to sack but like I don't know like the thing is like Jalen Milro has been the Target of a lot of crap, right? yeah, and like I think that it's gotten so intense and And mainly from Alabama fans who are probably upset with the way the season went that we've like convinced ourselves that he stinks And like I think that that's like, I don't think he stinks, but there's a lot of stuff that he did in college that would make, would give me pause if I was an NFL GM, like, and it's not just the, the inaccuracy on the mid range stuff. It's, it's more of the creating sacks that didn't necessarily have to be sacks, taking your eyes, letting your eyes drop.

Walking into a pass rush when, if you have good pocket awareness, you're sliding away from it. That's what I'm more worried about because he's not going to have as good of an offensive line wherever he goes in the NFL as he had at Alabama, relative to the competition You're going to deal with really nasty pockets

And if you can't that's something you can fix though, like that's the thing like I don't know. I don't think you can fix it No, I Think that's just that that's sort of six sensing that they're really good quarterbacks Especially the the drop back guys that aren't fast, but you see that they can kind of sense pressure and move. You're born with that. Yeah, because he's got a really pretty deep ball. I feel like between the elusiveness and the ability to hit people deep, like if you're able to, you know, work with him and improve his patience and improve his his tendencies in dirty pockets that maybe you might find something there. I don't know. But you know, I think that, you know, the NFL will always,

always, always take whatever quarterbacks are there, even if it's a bad year or a let me throw let me throw some options at you. So I'm gonna let you be the GM. So let's say the Steelers and Aaron Rodgers can't come to any sort of agreement and they need a starter for this year. Or like you were talking about, the Browns decide they don't want to go with Chedure really high and they're going to trade up at trade and try to

get somebody lower in the second in the first round. Jalen Milro or Jackson Dart? Who would you take? I'd probably take Jack Jackson Dart. I would too. Jalen Milro or Jackson Dart? Who would you take? I'd probably take Jackson Dart. I would too. Jalen Milrow or Tyler Shook? Who would you take? Jalen Milrow. Tyler's always injured. That's a toss up for me too because I have issues with either one.

Jalen Milrow or Quinn Ewers? Jalen Milrow. Because of Ewers' injury history? Ewers? Jalen Milrow. Because of Ewers injury history? Ewers is injured every year. And like, I think that he was a good player. I don't know if I knew him as a, like you also know who I am as a person and I'm willing to roll the dice

against the crap board a little bit more than maybe, and I feel like the upside, like I think that Quinn Ewers probably has a smaller or like a higher floor but I don't know. Miller has a higher ceiling higher ceiling and I think I might go from the ceiling guy with no injury issues. Can I throw one more at you and this is a guy that is not going to be a first round prospect but he's going to get drafted at some point in this draft. Jalen or Kyle McCord.

Probably jail in no room. OK, I I'm very interested in Kyle McCord because I'm trying to figure out who could be the guy who gets drafted 4th 5th round. 6th round. Who might actually wind up being an NFL starter. He seems like if we're going to pick candidates for that, he seems like the candidate to me.

How many? I don't know the answer to this, and I'm not sure you do off the top of your head, but you're the encyclopedia of just random information. How many quarterbacks in the NFL are starting right now that were fifth round like after the third round? Like, I mean, I can Brock, Dackenbrock, Purdy. Those are the only two I can think of. But we remember them because they are, like, like after the third round, like, I mean, it's a clock and Brock, Dak and Brock Purdy. Those are the

only two I can think of. But we remember them because they are because like, yeah. But like, I don't know how common that is. That's the thing too, like, the really, really good NFL teams are the ones who take players in the fourth, fifth and sixth round who end up being productive starters for multiple years. And like, if I were an NFL GM, I would probably be less into the notion of taking a quarterback in the fifth round because A, it's rare and B, you can get really good solid players that keep positions in those rounds that are undervalued that actually can contribute to your team.

Well, I would take him, I would take that fourth or third. Like if I had a good starter, that's where I'd take the fourth or fifth round or sixth round quarterback that I thought had a chance to be something. Because I might be able to develop him into something that could replace my guy when he retires or that could be a trade ship later. I would look at it sort of like sort of like your college coaches who take a quarterback every year. And then, you know, some years, they don't take the most highly rated guy, because they've already got a highly rated guy, and they don't want to scare off the highly rated guy. But then the guy you took for depth winds up being your starter. of that. Mac Jones was actually the second QB in his class. 2-0 was the other one. So I think that's the sort of thing you want to do when you do that lower round quarterback. It's when you already have a quarterback. Or if you're a team that doesn't have a quarterback at all that wants an extra option in training camp. Because that's the other thing too. It's like the more, even if one's more of a long shot, like the poker expression, you want to chip in a chair.

Like, yeah, like I were the Browns. I would take a quarterback with my second pick. And then I might consider like somebody like, like that in the fifth or sixth round, like a, a, a comma cord or a Dylan Gabriel or somebody like that. Yeah. Right. That like might have a chance to be really, really good. I also think too.

Um, and I don't know you tell me about this, but like, have a chance to be really, really good. I also think too, and I don't know, you tell me about this, but like, it's just like, the NFL seems so situational. I think that there's so many what-if game. Like, I feel like, like, I will say this, like, if Tim Couch got drafted to a really good franchise, like, I think he could have had a completely different NFL career. And I think part of the reason why Brock Purdy is so good is because he's at a functional place that knows how to call offense and play to their quarterback strengths. So like the players that go to Cleveland to always get, always get their heads bashed in because they're never in the right system and the, and they don't do a good job of harboring and developing those guys.

So like if you're a team that has a quarterback, like, I don't know, like even like the Lions or something that is just like, you know, you have your guy, you probably have a guy for three or four more years. You have a lot of young players and you need a backup. Like you bring them in and then all of a sudden he opens your eyes. But like I look at like Brock Purdy, it's like I don't even know why they took him to begin with. Well, Brock Purdy, and here's where people missed on Brock Purdy. Like Brock Purdy raised the level of play at Iowa State for four years. Yeah.

Like he made them better despite the fact that they had inferior talent to most of the teams they played and he made them the better team in most cases. So like that matters. And it's, it's, it's, we don't usually get to see that happen in college because the guys that are capable of doing that are usually on the teams that have more talent. Yeah. And then also too, there's a big deal of like, and this might be a thing that actually, um, plays into McCord in, in yours favor. Uh, and even maybe Dylan Gabriel to the same extent, but like quarterbacks who played a lot of games, uh, tend to more ready to compete at a high level in the NFL, whereas, you know, guys who were a starter for a year, a year and a half, you know, sometimes struggle a little bit like Dylan Gabriel played more snaps on all these guys, maybe a few of them combined, right? So yeah, like, I think that it's an interesting thing. But like, when you start talking about fifth and sixth round quarterbacks in a draft where there aren't a lot of like surefire first rounders. It's like, where would these guys be in a normal draft? Like undrafted guys, like it just,

but here's, here's the problem is I'm having problems picking between Jalen Milrow and some of these guys. And we're talking about them as six rounders. Like this suggests he's going to be a first rounder. And I like what Dave's here says in the chat just by picking a third round QB in the first round, doesn't make him better. Yeah. Like that's, that's a good point. Like just because you need a quarterback, doesn't mean you should overreach for that quarterback. Yeah.

Also should take him where you think he's going to fall because why waste a high draft pick on him? Notion again of like what Greg McElroy said last week of like just because somebody's super talented doesn't mean they're good at football, you know, and and Jalen Milro I think was a better college quarterback than Anthony Richardson. Is that a fair thing to say? Oh, very fair. Jalen Milro was a much better college quarterback than Anthony Richardson and I I also just the thing with Jalen millrow is that we all have the sour taste in our mouth about him and i think it's part of the reason why he's being nagged as much as he's being nagged.

But i don't think that he is a lost cause as a player and i also do like wonder to like it no row if they would have beaten oklahoma. like where would we be talking about him since the beginning of this process? Well, if he'd have opted out of the Outback Bowl, we'd have a nicer conversation about it. I just I feel like we're looking at one or two games, but like how many previews have we done? I'm not looking, but I watched every Jalen Milro start Ari. I know, but I'm saying I'm not talking about just one or two games. I think here's the thing like the conversation around him. We spent five, six, seven previews on Alabama this past year talking about how much of a weapon he is and now he sucks. Which one is it?

Go go back to the Arkansas game in 2023 and just watch him step into those Landon Jackson sacks. Like yeah, I can't unsee that. Yeah, and I think that that's fair, too. And like the thing, too, is if collecting cards has taught me anything, it's that, you know, it's very, very hard to not fall in love with people who do great things in college and then think that like Justin Fields is always going to be the person that I look to as like the biggest blunder of my collecting because I spent a ton of money on him as a prospect. And, you know, it turned out that he didn't turn out to be that good.

And I wonder, like I go back and I think about it, it's like, well, he was incredibly gifted from a physical standpoint. He was the heart and soul of a team that he started for multiple years. He took them to the highest possible place out into the national team. But he was also surrounded by more talent

than everyone else. And that's the hardest part, I think, when you're judging these quarterbacks. Because I can't blame what Jalen Milrow, the issues he had on his offensive line. His offensive line was good. Yeah. His receivers were good.

His backs were good. To put a bow on the Justin Fields point, though, is that everything that you would want to see, you saw out of him. And he even like completed what like 15 out of 16 passes in the Clemson fiesta bowl game where he outperformed Trevor Lawrence on national television. And then like all of a sudden it's like, well, he can't scan and read defenses and just misses guys who are open and doesn't throw it enough. And it's like, well, that's how he's become this like run first guy in the NFL.

And it's completely, he's going to have another shot. And I'm not, I don't know that all my hope is gone that he could be a productive NFL quarterback. But it's like, then all of a sudden Brock Purdy, who's in the same draft or the draft after him, I should say, gets drafted in the last pick, you don't think twice about it. And then he's like a starter for a Super Bowl team. Like it just it's really, really hard to see coming. And I honestly, then I talked to a good buddy of mine, who's an NFL scout, and he goes a lot of

times, we are just taking swings in the dark the way that you guys do, because it's really, really hard to tell which ones are actually going to be good. And I mean, think about it. This is the thing that blows my mind. Even with collecting, it's like, like I'm looking at this card that's just sitting on my desk that I'm shipping out today. It's just Trey Benson, right? This card's like five bucks maybe.

And like Trey Benson was right? Mm-hmm. This card's like five bucks, maybe. And like Trey Benson was a very good college running back. And like he might be a pretty good NFL player, but he's never going to be an NFL star. And you think about how many really, really, really good college players there are. How many players fill our show. I mean, like Malachi Corley was a guy that we talked about a lot, and he hasn't even played for the Jets yet. How

many great players in college that we become enamored with never even sniff playing time in the league. And then the ones that actually do sniff playing time or get good sometimes come out of nowhere. And like the secret sauce of how to identify that with a quarterback is fascinating to me, especially considering the fact that Brock Purvey got taken by who we believe is the greatest quarterback coach on the history of the league, or at least of the last five years. And he had the talent around him. And the only reason why he's playing is because the player that that same person drafted in the first round busted out.

Like we don't talk about that. Like he is the guy, Shanahan's the guy that we're supposed to trust. He got it wrong. They would have two Super Bowls if they drafted Brock Purdy where they did and not drafted Trey Lance. Cause Mike, the Parsons would be on their team right now. It's crazy. And he got it wrong. It's crazy. Oh, I'm glad you brought this up. Cause here's what I want to do later in the week, Ari, cause it is hard. But I want to go through these guys that are supposed to be picked day three and beyond, or maybe even late second round and beyond, and find the guys that are going to be the Brock Purdy's and the Pooka Nakua's that were like, yeah, we knew they

were good in college. Why are you surprised that they're so good in the NFL? Because I think there's a few guys like that. So let's make that a show later this week're so good in the NFL? Because I think there's a few guys like that. So let's make that a show later this week. The diamonds in the rough who aren't in the rough because we've been watching them for four years. Yeah, I wanna look at like seven round mocks online and see if there's like guys are like, oh wow, that guy's in the seventh round.

Oh, that guy's in the fifth round. That would be good. And like, I hope we start the show with, I'm trying to think of who. Xavier Estrepo? Well, I don't know that he's a diamond in the rough because he's still a second round pick, right? Xavier Estrepo? Or a third round pick?

He did not get drafted. Did it get? We never talked about this. But you saw. We did talk about this on the show. Yes, but you didn't talk about this on the show Yes, we did. We talked about it on the show before he tweeted what he said happened Yeah, but everybody knows that wasn't true Okay, I was gonna ask you if you think that that like helps like calm your mind a little bit about it

But like yeah, my mind is He's gonna be a good receiver in the NFL. I don't care what he ran in the 40. Oh, I didn't realize that people think he's going undrafted now. Holy crap. Yeah. I know we heard him say it. Yeah.

So it's one of those things. That's what I'm talking about, Navy or Stratpo. Exactly. Exactly. Well, shoot, we could do Willie Lampkin, the center of North Carolina,'s 510 270. Yeah That what I'm not sure about because the 510 270 is very small for an NFL offensive lineman, but yeah I've got a few I've already started making my list

I've got a few guys because because there are a few of those measurables and workout wonders that are really you know We're seeing in a lot of the first round mocks And I'm like let me name you these three players who are better at doing the thing that that person does on the football field Yeah, I just saw that Luke cliche the Iowa tight end is a fifth round projected pick. I'd take that guy Put him on the list Put him on the list Ari Put him on the list, Ari. I actually have hung my blinds, but one fell. Somebody asked, and like the settings of my camera are off and we need to fix them because we were outside and I don't know.

Yeah, we'll get it all fixed. We're gonna be good. It looks a little hazy to me and it's been bothering me the entire show. But I think it's more because the settings are off than, you know, all those things. And no, I don't know how to use a level. There's actually a level in your tripod. There's a little bubble. You got to get into the middle. Ask River. You can bring them back up here. He'll have my back. He was messing with my tripod. He said it was the most complex, unbelievably weird tripod he's ever dealt with. I don't know if that's a direct quote. You took the feet off your tripod. That's why. What feet? Or do you? I bet you didn't put the feet quote. You took the feet off your tripod, that's why. What feet?

I bet you didn't put the feet on. You probably never put the feet on. You probably even noticed it in the box. I don't even know what you're talking about, dude. Tripods come with feet. You screw them on. Makes them easier to level. I never bought, this was given to me already set up.

I never put this together. So I don't know where this came from. This is you see what we're dealing with ever here ever where folks. All right, we'll get the right Ari national championship game tonight. We'll be back in the morning to break down everything that happened and we will talk about a new national champion in college basketball, either the Florida Gators or the Houston Cougars. the