Andy & Ari On3 - How to ask for a $10M donation (and get it) with Arizona State HC Kenny Dillingham | Latest on Warde Manuel & Michigan | Will David Gabriel Georges go to Tennessee or Ohio State?

Episode Date: July 13, 2026

During the 12-team College Football Playoff era, there have been two Big 12 teams make the College Football Playoff: Arizona State and Texas Tech. As Kenny Dillingham looks to bring Arizona State back to the CFP, the Sun Devils received a $10M gift after Dillingham publicly sent an all call for someone to step up. Watch here as Arizona State head coach Kenny Dillingham joins the show and explains to the fellas how to successfully ask for and receive a $10M donation.   (0:00) On Today's Episode (1:15) Presenting Sponsor (3:04) Intro: Previewing Kenny Dillingham (8:17) Kenny Dillingham joins the show (10:55) Traveling to London (13:17) Staying at Arizona State (20:00) Supporting Players (25:00) Paying Players and Evaluation (27:46) One thing Dillingham would change (30:18) Closing out with Kenny Dillingham (30:51) Recapping Kenny Dillingham (37:58) Latest on Warde Manuel at Michigan (51:33) David Gabriel Georges: Ohio State or Tennessee? (1:10:17) Thanks for watching!   After Coach Dillingham joins the show, Andy & Ari head over to Ann Arbor, Michigan, where Warde Manuel has 'no plans' to not be the Wolverines' athletic director in the near future. The fellas break down the happenings out of Ann Arbor here.   In what is undoubtedly the most notable recruit in this cycle, RB David Gabriel Georges has narrowed it down to two schools: Ohio State or Tennessee. Watch here as Andy & Ari evaluate the latest on the number one player out of the state of Tennessee.   Our show is also presented by BetMGM!   If you haven’t signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code CFB and you will get up to a $1500 First Bet Offer on your first wager with BetMGM! Here’s how it works:   1. Download the BetMGM app and sign-up using bonus code CFB. 2. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game. 3. You will receive up to $1500 in bonus bets if your bet loses! Just make sure you use bonus code CFB when you sign up!   Make this college football season one for the history books. Make it legendary.   See BetMGM.com for Terms. 21+ only. This promotional offer is not available in DC, Mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET (Available in the US) . 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), 1-800-327-5050 (MA), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR). First Bet Offer for new customers only (if applicable). Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel   Watch our show on YouTube! https://youtu.be/ZNGKvknfElA   Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/on3sports   Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/on3/   Like/Follow us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/On3Sports/   Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari Wasserman Producer: River Bailey   Interested in partnering with the show? Email [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On today's Andy Naurion 3, how to ask for a $10 million donation and get it with Arizona State coach Kenny Dillingham. He explains why he stayed at Arizona State and also how he managed to activate the Valley in terms of fundraising because he said, I need somebody to write a big check and guess what? Somebody did. And Ari and I, we want to know how that works. We want to know how to do that. so he's going to tell us how. Plus, is this it for Ward Manuel, the AD at Michigan? Lots of smoke about a potential change at athletic director for Michigan this week.

Also, great story on three about David Gabriel Georges, who is considered the next can't miss running back. He's a member of the class of 2007. He is from Montreal. He's a native French speaker. He came to America. and he is just mowing people over as a running back. He's got it down to Tennessee and Ohio State.

Who's it going to be for the next possibly can't miss running back? We'll talk about it all today on Annie and R on 3 presented by BetMGM. This show is sponsored by BetMGM. All the lines and totals you see come from BedMGM. And it is a big week in the world of sports. There's a lot going on. Soccer, golf, the All-Star, game in baseball. It is a packed week. And of course, Ben MGM has a lot of goodies for you.

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First bet offer for new customers only, if applicable, subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in seven days. is in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Welcome to Andy and Ari on three presented by BetMGM and Ari. We get to talk to one of our favorite coaches today and ask a question that we've been wondering about for several months. How do you just ask somebody for a $10 million check

and they actually write it? You know what the actual key is? Because I have been thinking about this a lot, Andy. I think if you need $10 million, dollars, but that $10 million would then allow them to get something that they want, they're more likely to do it. And that's why our podcast is the perfect place to sponsor, because we have something that you want, viewership, personality, charisma.

$10 million, which is something that we want. We want 10 mil. If so facto, we have an Arizona State deal. But, you know, I like to think that we're charismatic people. I don't know if we're charismatic as Kenny Gillingham. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, the good thing about this all happening for him or the reason why it happened, and I asked him this in this interview that we're going to show, is that there was a little bit of showing results,

not a little bit, a lot of bit of showing results before the money came through. You know, if they had not made the playoff already, won the Big 12 already, and pushed Texas all the way to the final drive in overtime, I'm not sure this money comes through. I think that, you know, the key to this question of $10 million and asking for the money and then getting it rests in the idea that whoever's writing that check feels more confident that he'll actually be able to deliver something with that money. It's a lot harder to, you know, write a check blindly, I think. And a lot of people in college football do, Andy. And I think we might be having a topic of conversation later on in the show that, you know, has something to do with that. But it is, you know, he's already shown what we say, proof of confidence.

concept, but I mean, like, he did it without the team. Yeah, he's won the league. Yeah. They're the only team to beat Texas Tech last year. Now, if Sam Levitt doesn't hurt, who knows what the, what the end of last season looks like. So, yeah, I'd say they feel pretty confident. Obviously, there were people sniffing around Kenny Dillingham. There were their jobs open where his name popped up. We think Florida State, if it opens, that that's another place that might try to come after him. And so, yeah, Arizona State and the people who love Arizona State are trying to make sure. sure that Kenny Dillingham stays home, and it's obviously important to him stay home. But this is an interesting case study because this is a guy who in this era of college football, it probably will be hard to keep him in the Big 12. You got to make sure he still feels like you're trying to go up and up and up and up. That's got to be the key. Absolutely.

And the other thing, too, is that like Arizona State was hit with a bunch of injuries last year that would have maybe if they didn't happen, put them back in a position to compete for the Big 12 championship again. You can't say that they wouldn't have been able to compete with Texas Tech because they literally beat them. So like it, you know, I think that there was some meat left on the bone last year too. So I think Kenny Dillingham's obviously a very gifted coach. And the thing that you come to respect about him too is that he does seem to have a legitimate passion.

It doesn't seem he does have a legitimate passion for making Arizona State great. It's not about being a great coach. I think that he is passionate about getting Arizona State to a place where it is competing for, you know, not just college football playoff spots, but national championships in the future. I don't know if he'll be able to do that. But if you're talking about early returns, Andy, I mean, these are about as good of early returns you could possibly get from a young coach like this. Yeah, absolutely fascinating schedule for Arizona State, too. They play at Texas A&M was a huge non-conference test. Texas A&M coming off a playoff berth, expect to be one of the best teams in the SEC.

Then they go to Wimbley Stadium to open Big 12 play. against Kansas. So that's going to be odd. They are at Texas Tech. They are at BYU and at Arizona for the territorial cup. They have one of the toughest schedules in the Big 12. Yeah.

And, you know, Kenny was talking a lot last week at Big 12 Media Day about, you know, trying to have an experience with Kansas and Wembley's in London, right? It is. You know, going out to a soccer stadium, but also allowing his team to sightsee and really experience the trip. I think that's really cool.

But adding a, because Kansas might be very good, too. Like I think that it's so funny. It's like the coaches, the thing we was talking about on. Andy Codell, Nicky's back with Lance Lippold at Kansas. Like don't sleep on the Jayhawks. Lance Lippold didn't forget how to coach last year.

You know, like they're still good, good coaches on that staff and they're, you know, got the band back together there. But going overseas is going to be difficult. But yeah, I mean,

I think that, you know, when you look at the Big 12 schedules, Andy, all schedules look difficult because you don't necessarily know who's going to be good. But Arizona State didn't really catch a deeper. When you have the at the teams that we all expect to be, good. That's the toughest draw.

Yes. But listen, you're not going to get any excuses from Kenny Dillingham. That's just not how he operates. So let's hear from Kenny Dillingham and let's ask him the question, how do we get somebody to write us a $10 million check? He's going to tell us right now. Join now by Arizona State coach

Kenny Dillingham in the finest suit that any coach has worn to Big 12 many days. Maybe ever. I don't know about that. This is unbelievable. Eric Morris said, you know, my wife picks out the colors. I don't do this.

Are you actually picking it out yourself? Absolutely not. My wife picks it out with, you know, we have a guy who does a lot of stuff for our program. Doug Carlton, he does suits. So he did all of our players' suits for them and their awesome suits. And him and my wife did this. And, you know, I put it on to distract people from my face. And it's worked so good.

Nobody's commented on my face. The thing that they can't see, Kenny, is the confidence to rock the matching pants, too, because so many people come in with different types of ladies. Yeah, this is not a sport coat. This is a suit, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, yeah, it's a, yep. Looks great. I appreciate it. A suit guy's got to be a recruiting edge. That feels like an advantage right there. Yeah, it is. I mean, he's phenomenal. And, I mean, he, he, NILs with our guys to give them suits. And in return, they wear them in certain locations and advertised for them. And he's a phenomenal asset.

And part of growing up is realizing how expensive things are that you would never know when you're a kid. Like blinds and fences and things. Suits. Suits is up there. Yeah. Like an expensive suit is a, I mean, a nice suit's a very expensive undertaking. So I don't even want to ask. But it looks great.

And, you know, you have a really nice face, too. Don't ever, don't ever. Is that a weird thing to say? Kind of. That's all right. He said he wanted to own a farm with another coach, though. Well, that's good. Well, I'll own the farm too.

I get involved in this farm? Yeah, he was, like, joking because, like, I was, like, saying I want to invest in it. I don't want to work in it. Like, you misunderstood. Oh, sorry, I forgot. You pay people to work. You don't work yourself. No, no, I got you.

All right. So, Kenny, you're playing a game in England, and Arizona State has a campus now in London? Like, are we expecting a full turnout from the Arizona State London campus at Wembley? I hope so. I mean, I'm on the full campaign to fill that place out with Arizona State fans and make them sheer like it's a football match, I think it'd be phenomenal. I've heard about your travel plans, too. So, college station, you guys play at Texas A&M.

I'm glad you're not ducking the good out of conference games. Appreciate that. But then you hop on a plane, off to merry old, jolly old. And how do you, because you said, I talked to somebody on your staff and they said, well, Kenny wants to make sure the players get an experience. It's not just a business trip. And, you know, how do you do that in a balance with a league game against Kansas? Yeah, I mean, I think college football, my job is to balance, you know, the football and, you know, college.

You're still college kids. Yeah. You know, they're still doing something. They're going to fly across the pond with 105 of their current best friends. Like, they need to go have fun. Yeah. They need to go over and they need to do something. They need to go experience it.

So us getting there early is something that I want them to experience that Sunday when we land and Monday. I want them to go experience London and make this something that they're going to remember for the rest of their lives. And then they can go focus on football when we hit, you know, Monday, late Monday night, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, you know, go to another event. But I really want this to be something they remember for the rest of their lives because it's not an advantage to go to London to play a game. Right. So if we don't make this a memory, then what are we doing? then what are we doing?

Yeah, right. We're hustling backwards. Yeah. And I thought it was true what you set up at the podium about how most people don't even get to leave the country ever. You know, and to be able to go over there and do that, be pretty neat. Yeah, it's going to be awesome. I mean, it's going to be a great experience. I mean, it's talk about a logistics nightmare.

And it moves our biweek up to, you know, after week three. So we have nine straight games because of that. So there is a lot of things that absolutely. Do you like a passport guy? Like, how do you get everyone's passport square away? That's what the first thing I thought of. Lexi, who runs our organization, by the way, Lexi, Lexi Godfrey runs our team. And she handled all the passports with our passport team on campus.

You know, we're in international school. So, I mean, our passport team on campus combined with Lexi, they made it all happen. Kenny, I've been dying to ask you this for months now. I know where you're going with this one. Yeah. Fired up. When you were, your name was floating around for the Michigan job for a while. and I remember that big speech you gave,

I think you were at the practice facility, about how you needed somebody to step up. Oh, gosh. And I was like, I was in my living room in Dallas and I was actually moved by it because I thought that like it was a cool thing to do. As an Arizona grad,

he was not moved enough to write a check though. Yeah, but I think that would be a conflict of interest. But the thing I think is interesting is that you affirmed your loyalty to the place that you're at before the check came through. through, which I thought was really endearing and would make me want to write one if I were a supporter of the program. But then, you're bearing the lead. It seems like you got it. So what is that like when you get it? When you say, all we need is one person to make a difference, you get it.

Like, is there a responsibility now to deliver off of that gift? Well, I think that the, you know, the race that we're running, we started a little bit behind and we're catching up. But everybody else is still running. So, you know, Brian Sweetie, unbelievable gift. I mean, I mean, we give $10 million of your own money to a football program and you endow the head football coach's position. That's pretty powerful. So, and he's a dear friend of mine, too. So that's even better. Is it somebody that, you know, I appreciate and that I ask advice from?

He's been very successful running companies. So, I mean, it's pretty cool that people, I would say, answered the bell, but people are still answering the bell. I think, you know, you have two choices in today's landscape. Some jobs, you just, you know, you wake up and you're going to have advantages. Other jobs, you got to work for it. Like, you've got to ask for it. You've got to, like, you've got to be out there. And if you're not, you can either be booed by what you say to the media or be booed

or be booed when you lose games. Like, let me be booed by people not liking what I say. I'm perfectly fine with that. Those are negative feedback from it from anyone? I mean, I don't know, probably. Yeah. I just want, here's what I want to know. I want to know how to do it.

I want you to teach me how to look into that camera and say, write me. a check for $10 million. So let's say you needed an advertisement for your site or something. Exactly. You just say, listen, we can help you brand yourself. We're one of the best platforms on On 3, one of the best people for college football. We can help you put your soda can, your chip bag right here every single day. That could be you. I think you've actually been hired as the director of sales at On 3. Congratulations. I also don't think that you've ever made the college football playoff, but pushed. No, I've not made the college football playoff.

That is an issue. Do you think that that's possible without that run? No. No, I mean, our state is all about winning. People, we live in a lifestyle city. I mean, people move to Phoenix when they become successful because that's where they want to live. Like, that is like the dream is to get back to Phoenix,

is to say, one day I want to move back there. Some people near and dear to me, to my right, may have that dream one day. And it's one of those things that if we can create an atmosphere of an unbelievable college experience and you get to live in Phoenix, holy cow. Now you got something that's scary. And we're building that atmosphere. We've sold out games all last year. We sold out the last two games of 24. We're basically sold out for this season already.

We're building in our stadium premium seats to sell out. So we're building a college atmosphere in one of the best cities in the country to live in. And building a pretty good team. I mean, you add Omarian Miller. You add Carter Bowley, who, for those who didn't watch a lot of Kentucky late last season, he was playing really well as things went down to the wire. So, you know, it feels like it's not just the people in the valley that are noticing. It feels like others are noticing too, and you have the resources to compete for it now.

Yeah, no question. I mean, our resources are getting better. We're not the top. We're getting better, right? Nowhere near where we can be and where we can get to. And I'm aware of that. But I think we do have the team. I love our team. I love the guys we've added. I love the mindset of the guys. I love how they come together. And I think that's what fires me up about this year. It's like, man, we get to go come together as a team and we have some talent on this team. We've got a good amount of guys that I think can play on Sundays. Let's go put it all together and see what we can do. So the thing that sticks out to me about some of the things that you built were some of the evaluation jobs that you guys did. We talked about Cam Scataboo when you walked in here. Obviously, you were one of the earlier identifiers of Sam Levitt and that paid dividends. What is evaluation like in today's day and age? Obviously, things are more sped up.

Things are more expensive. But is evaluation the same as it was a few years ago or did things change? Evaluation is a premium now. See, before you could just say, okay, who are the highest rank? and the odds are that if you just signed the highest ranked guys over and over again, that you're going to hit enough. You may miss, but who cares? Your hit rate on those guys are going to be at such a high rate.

But now with the balancing of the finances behind it and the balancing of roster, you can't, unless you have unlimited, you know, resources, you can't miss any more like you could. So your evaluations are more of a premium than they've ever been. in the history of college. Five years ago, the team that won the national championship could have a 30% hit rate and still win the title. 100%. Now you cannot. Well, I had an AD say it really well to me today.

He said it's valuation, not evaluation. That you have to be able to understand what somebody's worth because there may not be a salary cap, but you have a finite amount of money. Yeah. And I think those words go together because your valuation of somebody is based off of your evaluation of them. Right. Right. So if you're not, if your program doesn't evaluate, and then you may put the wrong value on somebody. So, and everybody's value is different because everybody has a different number they're working from, which is the craziest part about this whole landscape. Yeah, and everybody's got a weird definition of how they view what someone's worth if the number 500 player in the country is worth X.

Shouldn't the number 900 player be worth like 0.8X, but there's no scale. Yeah, it's just, you know, whatever you think, you've got to be convicted on what you're trying to build. You know, I know what we want to do as a football program. We know what we want to do as a team, and we're just going to go target guys who fit our program. I'm not going to get caught up in all the other stuff. Sometimes you want to get caught up in winning certain types of the year. And, you know, I don't want to be the face of our program. I want our players to be the face of our program.

Like, you don't see me much post about myself. You don't see me do much of that stuff. I truly want our players to be the face of our program. Yeah, you are one of the ones that it seems like, I remember one time some there was a guy who left your program through the transfer portal. I can't remember who it was. But you quote tweeted his transfer announcement and said, love this guy. He's going to help your team.

Like, how important is it to put those guys out there to support whoever it is, guys who were either leaving your team or the guys who are on your team now? Yeah, why would I not want somebody that I've been around recruited in built a relationship with to be successful? Like, that's just silly to me why you wouldn't want these guys to be successful. It's like, you know, in our industry, it's like when coaches leave a place and take another job, and then they're like root against the place they just left, like secretly. They won't say it publicly, but they do. Or they call people like, how's it going? Is it just chaos without me?

Right? Like, everybody wants to believe the world's going to fall apart without it. The reality is, like, I just want people to be happy and be successful. Like, we're going to have 105 guys on our football team. I can guarantee that. I can't guarantee much. I can guarantee we have a team. And I'm going to pour everything I have into those teams. And when guys want to leave our program, I want to see them succeed.

I don't want them to fail. I want them to succeed so I can say, man, maybe something that they learned in our program helped them succeed in life. Like, that's what I'm rooting for. Which is in turn also beneficial to you in future sales pitches. Yeah, I mean, I guess. Or it's bad. Like, that person left and had success.

Like, was it really you? Like, so I think you can go, depends on everything can be spun different ways. I don't really worry about that. I just, I truly like to see people succeed. Like, I literally enjoy watching people achieve their goals and succeed. So I just want to see people succeed. That's how I, I enjoy that. That makes me happy.

Hey, Kenny, last time you were here a year ago, you were coming off the CFP, and you said the most important thing to you, and I thought it was a good quote at the podium, was that you didn't want to be a one-off, a team that made it once or had an exciting, season and then fell back into the pack. What do you think the biggest challenges are as the head coach of ASU of making sure that doesn't happen? Yeah, I would say the the race that it's becoming. It's getting a bigger gap in terms of like the financial race of this thing is getting

steeper and steeper and steeper. So I think you've got to be willing to continue to get involved and find creative ways to stay involved to be competitive, you know, just like, you know, major league baseball. You know, it's the same, same thought process there is you have to be willing to invest at a high level in order to stay near the top. And you don't have to be the top, but you got to be somewhere in the game so you can compete with the top if you, if you want to get there. So I would just think really that and then, you know, hopefully creating something that people feel like you add value to them. Like if they come to your program, that they can become a better person, they can become a better player, and they can leave having more value.

you like you look at the four guys we had drafted this year not any of them were in the top 170 or 700 of their recruiting rankings wow four guys drafted not top 700 two guys in the first round not top 700 like can we continue to do that can we continue to bring the best out of people and will people just want to be a part of that because they want the best version of themselves but that seems that seems like excellent proof of concept when it when you know maybe a differentiating a factor when it's down to you and somebody else, the money's similar. That's something it feels like you can throw out there that will change somebody's mind. Yeah, it is.

I mean, I'll be honest, I'm not much of a sales guy when I meet with people. Usually when I meet with people, I'm like, do you actually want to come here? I actually don't try to close and get a kid to commit in my office. It's usually like, do you want to come here? Why do you want to come here? Because at the end of the day, like, you can go out there and sign whoever you want. You can force them to be on your team. You can do whatever you want.

but don't you want guys who truly believe in what you're doing? Like, I still like coaching football. Like, I still enjoy people that want to be in our building. I want you to, like, want to be here. I want you to want to be around me. I don't want to trick you. Like, I actually enjoy what I do. And the moment that it turns into, how do I get you on my team, not you don't want to be on our team,

is the moment that I'm going to look at people and be like, hey, the only reason you're here is because I got you or I'm making you stay. I never want that. And then it's probably exhausting throughout the process, too, that if somebody says, signs them with those pretenses, then you have to make sure that you figure out a way to retain them every day. Correct. And for us, like I said, I just want people who want to be here. And if they don't want to be here, let's help you get somewhere where you think is best for you, regardless of the situation, right? Doesn't mean it's bad. It just means, hey, not quite the fit. That happens all the time in every industry. It just didn't work out or it was going great. Now it's not anymore. Cool. Let's go do something else.

I just want people who truly believe in what we're doing who want to be here, people that I can look at and be like, we're on the same page every day I can joke around with, we can compete, and we can work together. Is there a number where if you, it's kind of like a, you know, threshold where if you hit that, that's when it then comes down to your ability to coach, your ability to evaluate, to find. I think Steve Sarkesian said he thinks there's like 25 schools that are above that line. Where do you think that line is? I mean, I honestly don't know. I mean, I would say in the 35 million, maybe higher. I don't know, though. I'm just, I'm made up the number, right?

Right. Because, but I would say, you just got to be in a position to where you can win the margins, right? You know, if you're half of what other teams have, you're not winning the margin. Like, you can win the margin, but like, that's a gigantic margin, right? You've got to get to a point where you have to win the margins. So I would say whatever that number is of teams where you just are winning the margins. And I think that's the fun part of nowadays. Everybody gets to build a team a different way.

Some people can build it and go all in on high school. Some people can go all in on portals. Some people can go all in on quarterbacks. Some people can go all in on D-line. Some people can say, we're going to have the best wide-out. group and we're just going to sling this thing. And there's no way you can cover us and play man coverage. We're going to get light boxes and we're going to run the rock.

Like there's so many ways that you can build a team now. And because it's not like the NFL, there's not a structure of a cap. So people can go above and beyond what they need to to get a certain player that they think fits their team. And they can overspend, underspend.

But is it overspending if you have more money? No. It's all about the percentage of what you got. And nobody knows what you got. That's the trick. And everybody's lying about what they have and saying it. Well, their agents are certainly telling you something different to make sure you pay more than you might need to. It's exciting, but you know what I like? I like that it's helping the players. Like anything that helps the players, I am the biggest advocate for players, for players, players, it is just interesting because, you know, Andy and I started our careers as sports writers and now we're

podcasters. And I feel like that's kind of happened to coaches a little bit too, where it's like you got into this because you love coaching football and you love the game of football. But now you're fundraisers. Yeah. I mean, we're, I think every job is different. I think some places you don't need to. I think it's just there. Those things are there. Other jobs you have to be. Yeah. So I think every single job is different. And certain jobs, you have to wear more hats than other jobs. And I think you've got to figure out. And what I'm trying to figure out is which hats do I need to wear and which hats do I need to put on other people to wear for me. And I think that's the greatest challenge that that's why every job is different. And you can't just take one coach and put them in place B. And,

and say it's going to work out the same. It's because it's not, because that coach may be perfect. He may be great at X, Y, and Z, and that's what that school needs is X, Y, and Z. Other school may need A, B, and C. Well, you ain't good at that. Like, that ain't going to work, because you're good at X, Y, and Z. There aren't that many people that are good at A, B, C, D, E, F.

Correct. Yeah. So it's about fit. So I think you've got to figure out what is needed, and you've got to just attack that in your program and try to raise that. How honest do you have to be with yourself to figure out,

what are the things you're good at and the things you need to help that? I think you've got to be really honest with yourself, and I think you've got to understand that you're not the best at everything. So you've got to understand what you're good at. You've got to understand your strengths, and you've got to understand your weaknesses, and you've got to embrace it and say, hey, I've got to listen to people.

Like, you can't do it all by yourself, not enough time. But then you've got to change, you know, based off of your team, what is the best use of my time this year, this season, based off of our program, not just our football team, but our program. Yeah. I don't know what all the letters are. Like A could be like tactical genius. B is developmental freak. C is a great evaluator. D is a magnetic personality. I mean, you can fill the letters. We know that you're a great fundraiser and a great personality.

But like if you could improve one of your letters, what would that letter be? And what would you be better at if you could choose it or add that? Yeah, I think if I could improve something, it would be a little less adaptive. I'm a guy who wants to change and wants to, you know, hey, if something changes, let's go this direction. I'm very quick to change, especially in today's landscape. I wish I could be a little bit more like move it like this instead of move it like that. And I've always been taught to stay, you know, narrow, small changes. And I try to do that. But my, you know, my brain and how I work, I just want to make these big, I want to, I want to move.

But that's also why you've got this place where it is now, because I remember sitting with you in Scottsdale in your first season or going into your first season. And you'd had to flip the roster. You had, you know, an insane number of new players. It feels like that that was the right skill set for this job then. Now you've got to evolve that. Because the people who fail don't change at all. Right. But now you've got to evolve that because you do have it running kind of way you want.

And I think that's the challenge is, you know, you've got to figure out how it works early. but now I've got to figure out how I don't, we've got a decent recipe. Like I don't need to drastically change. And that's challenging for me because that's what I want to do because I want to be the best. So if you want to be the best, you want to make changes and fix things. And, you know, I got to get, I would say, in a rhythm. So I guess that would be my thing that I need to improve on the most is just trusting that we're in a rhythm and trying to stay really tight to that rhythm. And knowing that every Saturday of the fall, that Sparky's not on the helmet, it's a wasted Saturday.

Wow. Wow, Shuff. I mean, he's not wrong. It is the perfect logo. It is the perfect logo. It took really hard with uniforms because there's so many different options and stuff. It's not hard when you got the right one. You're the perfect uniform. Not as perfect as a logo right here on this table advertising you guys.

Yeah. Hey. Yeah? $10 million. Look at this man's face. This man's face makes you want to write that. We just need one, guys. We just need one person to step up.

10 million dollars right now. Thank you. Thanks, Kenny. Appreciate you. Appreciate you. That is Kenny Dillingham. And I think, you know, we talk about him being different than your average coach. And I think his situation is different than your average coach because he is home. He's where he went to school.

He's where he grew up. And as long as Arizona State shows that it's committed to being at the top of the Big 12, you know, possibly more than that as you go forward, I think he's going to be. fine. Here's the key to keeping Kenny, Andy. And it's just, it's probably true for most coaches in college football. They don't have to go spend $40 million and try to compete with some of the big boys in the sport to do it. I think what Kenny wants from Arizona State is a pretty reasonable ask, which is consistent investment and the clear interest of continuing to level up. Because I think that when you get to a point as a coach, if you hit the wall and you feel like

you've gotten the most out of something without further desire or investment from the place that employs you, that's where people, you know, meet burnout. I think as long as Arizona State continues to try their best to fundraise, which clearly they have, but also give the coach resources to fill out a staff and do what he needs to do to get incrementally better, then he feels like he's working to build something and I think he'll be there for the long term. So that's up to Arizona State. So far, so good, Andy. definitely and it seems like people are willing to work with with kinney and he's willing to work with them it's not like you said it's not give me a $40 million roster or I'm out I don't think that's we talk about how Indiana has broken everyone's brain about like what to expect in college football and they have certainly but there's another thing that Indiana should have done for everybody which is shown you how awesome it is to be good at football like you would think that like if you're an Arizona state's AD or you know, the brass there or anywhere else that's, you know, deciding how much to, you know, invest or to continue to pour into the football program.

Hasn't Indiana showed that, you know, maybe they didn't do all the investing on the front end, but the back end of being successful and what that does to your university, like we all should have learned from Nick Sabin's success at what it did for Alabama, the university, not the program. you would think that everybody that has a power for football team would be very vested in the idea of being very good. So it shouldn't be like arm wrestling. It still blows my mind hearing some coaches at some really big time programs, like programs that we would perceive to be top 15 programs in the country saying they had a hard time getting the resources that they needed. I don't think anybody should be saying no because there's so much window of opportunity out there right now to actually be good. And of course, the fruits of being good are really, really worth the juice is worth to squeeze. Well, and it's very interesting because Arizona State's in a little bit different position

to some of these other big 12 schools. Arizona State, not a traditional basketball power. The traditional basketball powers do have to worry about how they balance what they spend on the football roster and what they spend on the basketball roster. That hasn't been the case of Arizona State necessarily. Now, they did make a really good higher in the offseason. They hired Randy Bennett from St. Mary's. So they're probably going to have just a cavalcade of the best Australian basketball recruits

that they can get coming through. but I don't know that they're going to have to spend necessarily the way Kansas does or the way Arizona does on their basketball roster. So I think that may help Kenny where he's probably not having to compete as hard for those dollars as some of the other big 12 coaches do. Yeah. And again, buddy, you give somebody a taste of something they want more, right? I mean, you gave them a taste of something that, you know,

there aren't a lot of football programs out there, maybe a lot more in the 12 team era than there were a few years ago. but still on a very selective fraternity of teams that have made that playoff. And, you know, they didn't just make it and get crushed either. They got to experience a classic playoff team. He should have won the game. They gave a fourth and 13. Like if they stopped the fourth and 13, they beat Texas.

Because that's the other thing we talk about too. It's just like the diminishing value of just making it just to get steamrolled. I do think that there is something to be said. And I know that, you know, moral victories don't really feel like a warm and cozy place in college football. But if you give your fan base a taste of a playoff, game that against one of the teams that we perceived to be one of the most talented teams in the country, a fight for their lives. Like, that's different than just making it as a formality in getting your ass kicked.

Like, they could have advanced in that thing and probably should have. And, you know, Andy, if you remember that game, there was a lot going on. I think we were, I was, I was on the way to the Rose Bowl. The game got canceled around it, but I remember going live with you at the Rose Bowl. And, you know, that team got their butts kicked. I feel like, if I remember correctly, for much of the first, you know, quarter and a half of that game and fought back. And obviously the individual, you know,

sensationalism of Cam Scadaboo probably helped. But like the fact that they fought back and could have and should have won that game is remarkable. So like if you're an Arizona state fan thinking, oh, well, we could, you know, we could make the final four. We could compete for a national championship. Isn't as big of a pipe dream as maybe it is in some other places. Yeah, it is. I mean, look, we've seen how close they were against Texas.

And that Texas team, remember the next week. took Ohio State to the wire. They gave Ohio State the toughest game they had during that playoff run. So, yeah, I'm fascinated to see what happens. You know, Sam Levitt goes, he's at LSU now. They bring in cutter Bowley. Is that the next big fine for Kenny Dillingham? We'll find out.

I mean, Kentucky fans obviously know who Carter Bowley is. I think people who watch the SEC know who that is, but I don't know that the rest of the country knows who that is. So I'm very excited to see what he does this year. And we know. Just about how good Arizona State's going to be. Is it able to do the Sam Levitt Jordan Tyson thing again? Is that lightning in a bottle or is that a model that you can do?

Moran Miller is a good receiver. He came from Colorado. He didn't really have the best situation with people throwing him the ball last year. Now, he was behind some really good receivers as a freshman at Colorado. But last year when he was their best receiver, you know, is they hardly getting the ball. I don't think Arizona State's going to have a hard time getting him. the ball. So I'm excited to see what he does too. Yeah, it's, it's going to be fun to watch. And again, week two, they're going to college station. Like, that's going to be a fun game.

And, you know, Arizona State season a little bit derailed last year when they, they gave up a long touchdown pass at the end of Mississippi State. So maybe they're the ones that are on the other end of the shocking result in an SEC Big 12 game this year. Yeah. We'll see. And also, you know, the entire Big 12 needs these games. Oh, yeah. They need those types of games. Obviously, beating Texas Tech on the road, I mean, Texas A&M on the road is going to be a difficult challenge.

I don't think that Arizona State season will be diminished if they happen to lose the game. But think about, you know, feathers and caps here. I think that, you know, the Big 12 could probably use a few of those. So that's a big game, not only for Arizona State, but for the Big 12 as a whole. Absolutely. All right. Let us switch to the Big Ten because there's some very interesting news coming out of Michigan over the weekend. R. Pete Naco's reporting that it sounds like the investigation into what happened at Michigan

during the Sheromorne. More situation is coming down this week. There's a previously scheduled board meeting on Thursday. The question is, does Ward Manual, the AD, survived the week? And it sounded, based on the reporting Sunday night, like they were talking about a buyout, Ward Manual talking to our friend Ross Dellinger from Yahoo says, the president and I have had several great conversations of the past couple of days. This is Ward Manual to Ross Delinger.

There are no plans for me not to continue to be the athletic director for the near future. There's a lot of lettuce in that word salad at the end. There are no plans for me not to continue to be the athletic director for the near future. Well, the near future could be like Wednesday. And there's a double negative in there, too, which makes it a little bit more complicated. Right. I just keep going back to this conversation that you and I had the day that Sharon Moore was fired. Yes.

And although it was a very shocking story, neither of us were floored. Well, and I understood when listeners, readers, viewers, viewers, viewers got mad at us for saying this was an open secret and everybody knew and they say, okay, why didn't you report it? Because you got to be able to prove something like that. The bigger question is because we know that there were implications made to the Michigan administration that something was going on. And they didn't actually do anything about it until after the season when basically

Paige Scheiber, the woman in question, she basically, basically flipped and said this was going on. But they had surveillance video, like surveillance, video from the complex, all of these things they could have been looking at. And I wonder if we're going to find that they weren't looking as closely as they should, that they were just like, okay, whatever.

Because one thing somebody who was involved in the NCAA investigation and all of that stuff told me is so Chris Partridge, remember the assistant coach, Chris Partridge, He got accused of something. He got exonerated in the NCAA investigation. And one of the things that was used to exonerated was a piece of video from the cameras in the complex. And from my understanding, they found that within, like, once they started looking for it,

it, they found it within a day or so. If someone said the head coach is having an affair with his administrative assistant, how much video do you think there is that may help back up that story? My guess would be quite a little. Or disprove it, either one. Yeah. I mean, I would say quite a lot of video evidence should exist. And if it didn't, that would be a tough thing to think actually happened. Because if it's happening in the work, I mean, you know, human nature, if you walk by somebody, you're engaged with, you don't, you know, things happen. But, you know, that's speculation. But what I, what I will say, Andy,

is people can believe that this was a you know that we were full of crap or why didn't you report it and all the stuff that you began with and that's fine they don't have to believe that we knew or whatever but what i do know is nobody came to us and said hey this is going on like ward manual's job if you if you're tipped off is to is to check into that and it sounds like it was missed multiple times before they actually did anything about all i know is if you and i have heard something and it wasn't even specifics about who it was or what he was specifically doing, but heard through the grapevine that things could be going on in terms of inappropriate behavior. If you and I know that, he knows it.

Like there's no way that like we would be privy to any sort of information or, or hearsay behind the scenes that the athletic director. It always goes back to the same thing with every college football scandal that's ever happened, which is what did the coach know and when did he know it? It's like nine times out of ten, if not ten times out of ten, they knew. You know. But here's the weird part about this. So under Ward Manual, the football program has experienced a resurgence.

It has won the national title. Now, I think most Michigan fans would say that is totally to Jim Harbaugh's credit, not to Ward Manual's credit. They also won a national title in basketball, but then he can't hold on to Dusty May after that. Yeah. I don't know that he could have stopped Dusty May from going to the Mavericks. So here's the question that I would ask a Michigan fan, because the athletic director obviously is important.

There are lots of other scandals too. So you can, oh yeah. You want to throw Connor, stallions at his feet, all that stuff. Of course you do. Yeah, you have to include all that stuff. But even the cheeseburger goes out of his feet, whether it's stupid or not. I think we both agree that it's stupid. But the LaTroy Lewis thing is an interesting one too. he was a staffer who was accused of rape. He ended up getting fired from his job. He had left Michigan and gone to the Atlanta Falcons.

He got fired by the Falcons when that situation came to a head. So like this is Block and Jenner is the law firm that's been investigating all this stuff. They've they've been doing this for months now. Yeah. The other one was there was a computer crimes thing with someone. Well, yeah, that was that was the offensive coordinator. Yeah. where he was

essentially cyber stalking. Yeah, I've seen the, I've seen stealing identities. I think he's not what to describe it. The Jim Harbaugh like coaching tree while at Michigan, there's a lot of people who are fired or dismissed for impermissible activities. But if you asked a Michigan fan,

did Ward Manuel do a good job? A Michigan fan, not just me and you. Is the answer to that yes? I mean, they won a national title in both major sports. Not if you look at the Wolverines message board. The Wolverines are Michigan cited on three.

You read the message board there. There are very few people who think you did a good job. Yeah. How many athletic directors that are currently employed? Is it zero that have won with hires that they made won championships in both major sports? Well, he didn't make the Harbaugh hire. He didn't? He was after Harbaugh?

I believe he got there in 16 and Harbaugh got there in 15. Okay. Well, then I guess. That doesn't count. Yeah, I think, I think Hackett was, was still in that period where he was, he was helping out. I believe he's the one who brought Harbaugh back. Okay. So that's the, but, but, no, usually, you're right about that.

It was Hackett. That's my mistake. Yeah. Yeah. Usually, when someone has been, has presided over this kind of success, people are a little more willing to let the other stuff go. They're not willing to let it go. And I think a lot of it has to do with Harbaugh leaving immediately after winning the national title. And Dusty May leaving immediately after winning the national title.

And I think a lot of the Michigan fans view, the relationship between Ward Manual and Jim Harbaugh is being very contentious, that they didn't like each other and that Ward Manuel, quote, chased off Jim Harbaugh. I don't think that's what really happened. I think Jim Harbaugh was always going back to the NFL. Yeah, he was always itching to go back to the league. But I think that it's a question, Ari. was he always going back to the NFL before Word Manual Cut is pay? Because that... Don't know the answer to that question.

Because that actually is the turning point, I think, for everything in this situation, in the football situation at least, where instead of firing Jim Harbaugh, and they actually had a fairly reasonable buyout number, at least compared to what we've seen lately, at that time, instead of firing him, they basically cut his pay in half and said, you can make it back through incentives. And Harbaugh did it. He took it.

But I don't think he ever forgave it. Okay. So let me come to the defense of the athletic director here. Can I read you a score? Yeah. 49 to 11. Do you know what score that is? Would that be the Georgia, Michigan Orange Bowl?

No, that would be the Wisconsin-Michigan game during COVID where Michigan lied down in front of everything. Oh, yeah. Oh, God. That was the one. There's a screenshot where it looks like you could drive like a semi-truck through the hole. Michigan then dropped to one in three. And listen, I understand that COVID was a weird time.

And I understand that things were different that year. Obviously, games are being canceled. Teams weren't fully healthy. Michigan was an absolute disaster that year. And I think if you were the Galaxy brain, that's like I like to do so much, that Ward Manuel had no choice but to do what he did. In fact, I think...

He had a choice he could have fired him. He actually made what was the best decision. Yeah, yeah. If he would have fired him, we never would have known what would have happened afterward. In fact, the cutting of the pay, which was, I thought, a show of mercy, considering the fact that it happened during COVID,

actually was the catalyst for keeping the coach that ultimately turned it around. Right. So you can be upset with him. It forced Jim Harbaugh to change his staff, which is what probably was the more important thing that happened. So I actually think that the cutting of the pay was a shrewd move. You know, if you think that like, oh.

No, and that's the thing, like the guy's, the guy's tenure has not been just one misstep after another. He did thing, like more athletic directors might want to consider what he did there. It's just so much easier to look back after the championship and go, look what he did to him. And it's just like, well, you have to make decisions. in the moment. Yeah. Nobody saw that coming.

I didn't see that coming. You didn't. But here's the number one overarching question. And I understand there's some things that happened at Michigan that go beyond the scope of football. Like when you start going into morality and the treatment of women and harassment and affairs and all those things, you start to like leave the purview of the podcast and going. If this thing looks bad and they end up cutting him loose, that he should be. It's a no-brainer.

But how much of the Harba-esque type stuff, the SpyGate stuff, the Cheeseburger stuff, can an athletic director oversee while winning championships without it hurting their tenure? A lot of it is that the thing that's always been interesting to me. It's like, well, they're winning. Michigan football is different. I think people are willing to forgive stuff like that if you're winning. Now, what happened in the Sharon Moore situation? What happened with some of this other stuff is people are not going to forgive that.

And nor should they. So, you know, it's very interesting. But when we had the initial discussion about Sharon Moore, the day he was fired, I thought that Ward Manual leaving would have been imminent. Now, if this investigation took months spanning through a basketball season, that ultimately culminated in a national championship and then the departure of the coach, things get a little bit more interesting. But I don't know that there's any amount of winning.

that can save a person in his position from what they might find he was responsible for, which is not properly treating female or just employees in general. And that's an unforgivable offense. And not being as careful, like not looking into the things that you should be looking into,

not looking into them as closely as you should, all of that. And so my suspicion is we'll get more information about that pretty soon. And this will come to a head pretty soon. And again, if you look at what Ward Manual said to Ross Dellinger, that doesn't mean I'm keeping my job. That means we're not done with this thing yet. But we'll figure it out. There's no plans right now for me not to be the, yeah, you guys.

In the near future. Yeah. The near future may not run past this week. So we will keep you apprised of what's going on with this story. I would imagine you're going to have some action on this thing. there is a previously scheduled board meeting on Thursday. So that's one of those deals where I think if there probably wasn't a previously scheduled meeting that there might be a specially called type meeting where usually like because

when those things happen and they have to just because they always have to post and notice that the meeting's going to happen. You always know something's going to happen with the previously scheduled one. There's no guarantee. Like you knew they were going to meet. But eventually this report has to be done and has to be distributed to the board. it sounds like it's about ready. Yep, 100%.

So we will let you know as we find out more with this story because it is probably going to be developing throughout the week. Another story that will be developing throughout the next week, and we will get an answer, at least we're scheduled to get an answer on July 22nd. So that would be next Wednesday, Ari. David Gabriel Georges, if you don't know this next next, name. This is the player considered to be the next can't miss running back in college football. So he is originally from Montreal. He moved to America a couple years ago. He plays for the

Baylor School in Chattanooga, Tennessee. The Baylor School is a really good private school. Baylor and McCauley is like the ultimate rivalry. And Baylor has produced a lot of really good players. They put a lot of players in college. Their head coach is a former South Carolina assistant, Eric Kimri, Eric Westmoreland, the former Tennessee linebackers, their linebackers coach. So lots of good players, lots of talent. He's playing against good competition, and he is destroying people. This guy looks like an NFL running back already, and he's got it down to Tennessee and Ohio State, Ari, and it's a fascinating recruitment.

Nothing like a good old-fashioned high school football highlight tape, right? And this guy looks unbelievable. Now, again, it's high school, but he's playing as good competition. And if you talk to college coaches, they will tell you that this is one of the bigger no-brainers. No guarantee that he'll translate. But like there's a, Chris Lowe wrote a great story on three today. There's an anecdote in that story that Eric Kimmerie tells, the head coach at Baylor. So Will Mustchamp's son played quarterback for the Baylor School.

And Will would come out to practices every once in a while. and the first time he saw this guy at practice, he took a video and sent it to Kirby Smart and basically told Kirby Smart, this kid could start for you right now. I actually think, and I'm no Charles Power or Cody Belair, so forgive me for my novice attempt at analyzing talent,

that the likelihood that a player that is this good at this possession, like the floor on these types of guys is much higher than it is at other positions. Like even if he doesn't turn out to be, you know, one of the best running backs in the entire country. Like he doesn't have to be Jeremiah Love. The likelihood that he would go somewhere and not at least be a contributor or somebody who,

who's pretty good is fairly unlikely. And I think that it also brings up a discussion point about what's reasonable to pay a running back, which is obviously the whole idea with him here. And if a, and Chris has got some numbers in the story. So he, like a lot of times we're just talking about this stuff in the abstract. Chris provides some context. So Tennessee has offered more money, it sounds like, than Ohio State. But both of them are offering seven-figure annual salaries.

But Tennessee's, it sounds like, is closer to $2 million. And while Ohio State is above $1 million, it's not as high as Tennessee's. And that's what I find interesting about this because Ohio State does not have to pay as much as Tennessee to be in the mix for this guy. By the way, this is very similar to the recruitment of David Sanders, who is currently a starting tackle at Tennessee. In terms of numbers. So this is like the interesting point, and I'm excited to talk about this because there's multiple, like,

the ways you take this. One is, how much did Ohio State pay when Sean Jenkins? Like, I don't know the answer to that off the top of my head. It might have been in the seven-figure range, but probably not too many. Probably not then a couple years ago. Maybe that's changing in the future.

I don't know if like deals like this, change the salary structure for running backs in the future portals. But I feel like running back is probably the easiest position to supplement in the portal or at least get what you need out of. You can find a good one. And the better your offensive line is, the better the running back you find. Yeah. And it's not like this is a, I mean, I actually think you can make the case as a huge position

of need for Ohio State too. Like I know Bo Jackson's good, but like I think that they could use a stud like this at the position. Ohio State traditionally has done this over the years. and, you know, I know that there's probably some Aryan Foster highlight tapes floating around there, right, River? You know, but. I mean, listen, River was a baby, but let's talk about Jamal Lewis. Let's talk about, you know, Tennessee's had some great backs through the years.

But is this a good move financially for either of them is a question. Because it's like if you have a limited finite amount of money, maybe Tennessee is firing off the money spicket right now because they're desperate to get back to where they need to go. but even if Ohio State's willing to pay seven figures, that means that Tennessee's not insane. So does it make sense to pay a running back? You know, yeah. These are all recruiting photo shoot photos of him. The one of him in a Tennessee jersey is from before July 1st

when Tennessee officially switched from Nike to Adidas. The Nike Adidas of it all is an interesting subplot as well. Because Adidas has been more likely to put pitch in, to feature the athletes at the Adidas school. Nike has been very selective about which athletes it will showcase. Yeah. And so there's that. There's that he wants to wear zero,

which at Ohio State you have to earn zero. It's the block O. It was sunny styles last year. I don't believe Ryan Day has awarded it yet for this season, but it's probably going to be somebody who's been a major contributor. Like Brandon Ennis is one of the favorites to get it. It would be cool if they just like, if you did enough in high school to earn it though.

Like, come on. It's like retired numbers. That's all negotiable. depending on how good you are. But, yeah, I get what you're saying. Like, it's, that's the thing. Ohio State is less likely to bend that sort of thing than some of these other schools that have not had their level of success. Yeah.

100% and nor should they. I was just joking. But like, it's just a, I just find it fascinating because as this podcast develops, as the sport evolves, we have to have like real GM-like discussions about what makes sense. And like I personally, as good as he is, don't think that he's worth a $2 million price tie that comes with him. Well, I mean, think about it. Let me ask you this. If NIL had existed in the early 2000s, because there's only one back I can think of who had this level of hype as a high schooler and then showed up and wasn't, well, that's not true.

I can think of two. One happened to be a freshman in 1980. That would be Hershal Walker. The other one, is the other one a guy who tested the NFL early? Nope. Oh, who's the other one? Adrian Peterson. Oh, yeah.

Adrian Peterson was this level of hype coming out of high school. That was a different era of the internet at the time. No social media, but we still had internet recruiting services at that point. He was this level of hype and then got to Oklahoma and turned out to be better than the hype. Well, like they had to change the way they, They had to change where Adrian Peterson lined up because he got going so fast that they had to have him seven yards behind the line of scrimmage instead of five.

Like, it was insane how good he was. And so if you, if you are sure that this person is that level, then it's worth it. If you are not, it's not. I just looked this up while you were talking. And I was thinking of, some of the best true freshman running back campaigns of all time. Yep.

Here are the results that I found while you were looking. Ron Dane at Wisconsin in 1996 holds the NCAA freshman record for both rushing yards, 2,109 and scrimmage yards 2242, and he averaged 6.3 yards per carry and scored 21 touchdowns in 96. Adrian Peterson rushed for 1,900 yards, which is now viewed as a record. or depending if you, are you one of these people like me that cuts off 2000 and now is the modern era because they don't like thinking about history.

But this is the modern era. Like how many carries? What was the average per carry? Ron, they still average six yards of carry. But I bet you know the average off the top of my head. I'd have to open up a new window. But he finishes the Heisman trophy runner up as a true freshman,

which is an important thing to say. Adrian Peterson, that freshman year at Oklahoma, if you're young and you did not live through that, please when you're done with this show get on YouTube and just Google Adrian Peterson freshman Oklahoma highlights

it's incredible two more or three more here Andy and I have an overarching point to make about this obviously Herschel Walker 1980 as you referenced Marshall Falk at San Diego State 1999 rushed for 1,500 yards and 23 touchdowns in his freshman year

and then Tony Dorset at Pittsburgh, 1972 three rush for 1,586 yards and set the NCAA freshman rushing record at the time. By the way, can I shout out Ron Dane? Sure. Because remember how I said maybe he didn't average as much per carry as Adrian Peterson? He certainly did. He did.

He averaged more. Adrian Peterson averaged 5.7 yards to carry his freshman year. And Ron Dane, shout out as the first Who Am I, uh, clue. He was. That's right. That's right. But the point I want to make here is, Andy, there's only been one really truly amazing, true freshman running back since 2000.

And that's AP. And AP is maybe the biggest freak of a running back of all time. We're talking about one person in 26 years. Which is, by the way, insane with how much better players have been getting over the past 10 years in recruiting. Now, I think there's other players who have had huge impact. Like Maurice Claret was a true freshman in 2002, and he didn't have staggering numbers,

but I think you can make the case that he had a bigger impact on the team. So there are guys that, like, would come in and earn that $2 million. But if we are, you know, thinking about $40 million rosters is $2 million, and that's like the highest of high end right now, $40, $50 million at the most. Two million on those rosters might not be as much as some other places. But $2 million would be like 10, 15% of other rosters in the Power 5. Can I ask you a question, though, because this is a thing we've talked about

with a lot of people who work in college football because, yes, the pay scales have have tracked similarly to how the NFL works, where offensive tackles, quarterbacks, defensive tackles, corners, edge rushers, like those are priority positions in the NFL. And running backs, unless they're truly, truly special, like Saquan Barkley, they're viewed as you can find someone cheap

and get almost as much production. Can you make that much more of an impact in the college game as a truly dominant running back? Like Ashton Genty, I think, is a good example of this. I think that a truly dominant running back has a higher impact than college football than they do in the NFL. Agreed. So I think it's maybe worth it to try to pay a little more if you think the person is truly, truly special. The question that you have to answer is would you rather have a truly dominant running back or a really good offensive tackle and a great defensive lineman?

Like, because like you also take the two big guys every time. But at the same time, too, places like Tennessee might be able to get all three. So it's not like they're shooting their only shot on this guy. Right. They had the highest priced offensive linemen in class. He's a sophomore this year, David Sanders. And he's very good. Yeah.

So it's working out. But, you know, I think that maybe if you were to allocate $2 million and shoot a large portion of your budget away on that acquisition, that might not make sense for a smaller place, but at a place like Tennessee or Ohio State who has the money to spend, then maybe it's worth it. I don't know. And remember, Ohio State's not, you know, they're probably spending more than most people are on running backs in this class or maybe more than anybody if they wind up getting him, but they're not spending what Tennessee is.

Here's what I do know about Ohio State. The last. They get a little bit of discount because they produce so many first rounders. Yeah. And if you want to win a national championship and whatever, like they could sell that. But Tennessee obviously is able to compete on those planes, too. they were in a playoff playing Ohio State two years ago. But they took their shirts off.

The one thing I will say, whenever we talk about Tennessee, I don't look in the camera, I look down at River. I just like his facial expressions. Is the last two times Ohio State won the national championship for the last three times, and probably even before that.

I don't want to go all the way back into their history, but they had Maurice Claret on the O2 team. They had Ezekiel Elliott powering the 14 team, And he rushed for like, what, 780 yards in the three postseason games in the Big Ten championship game. Yeah. And then, of course, the last run two years ago, they had Trey Henderson and Quinn Sean Junkins, both of which are starting running backs in the NFL right now. Right. So like I think that there is.

Both of which had their moments in the run. Yeah. Yeah. Like that screen that Trey Henderson took to the house before the last time of the Texas game. So like, I mean, those those things matter. So, you know, I do think that, you know, having somebody who can be versatile. And that's part of the reason why I'm really high. on Texas as years. They've got two really good backs coming in and they didn't really have one last year.

There's clearly a person that can move the needle for you. I'm just so fascinated by pay scale. And the other thing, too, is if you get somebody out of high school, are you able to maybe get them for cheaper in the long run if they turn out to be great? Here's the other piece of that. This is different than an offensive tackle, although again, David Sanders played immediately. but with a great running back, the expectation is you're only going to have them for three years. They expect to play immediately. You expect them to play immediately. So there's not that sunk cost.

But is there a thought process too of like, hey, no sunk cost, like you said at the beginning of the tenure. But obviously, I think it's easier to retain somebody that had a good year than it is to go get somebody. Is that a fair statement? I think that's very fair. So if you make that statement on top of it, and then you actually believe that the running back has the highest floor,

that means you get them in for, expensive out of high school, but then you have a higher likelihood of having a stud running back on your team for three full years than you would otherwise. So like I understand the- It's not like they haven't been through this. Yeah. This is Jeremiah Smith all over again. Yeah. I would be very curious and I'm sure Pete knows this. I don't know this. I would, and obviously things have gone haywire since Jeremiah Smith was a recruit. Yeah, right. But I would be very curious to know what Jeremiah Smith's number was when he signed. Oh, I guarantee you it wasn't two million dollars. I can't wait to read the book. I really do hope he writes a book someday and

we'll learn the real numbers because I bet Jeremiah Smith's freshman year number is laughably low. 1,000 percent. Now, his current number is probably insanely high. Correct. He is he is he he he's definitely the highest paid non-quarterback, right? Without question. I would think so. And I would I would bet Jeremiah Smith, maybe Archmanning, but probably just probably Jeremiah Smith has the highest amount of quote unquote real NIL. Yeah. Because if I'm a company, I'm betting on Jeremiah Smith to be one of the greatest receivers in the history of the sport.

So I'm expecting him to be a legitimately great receiver in the NFL for the next 10 years. So I want to get in now. My understanding is that he's made north of $10 million in college. Yeah. I mean, is fair. like if he winds up being as good as we all think he's going to be in the NFL, then if you got out on the ground floor with him, you got a good chance of having a guy who is going to sell you a lot of shoes

or a lot of whatever for a long time. And Ohio State has gotten the money's worth too. Like it's always a nice story too. And a person you pay all that money to actually deliver something. And he's done that. Now, while we're talking about this, I don't know if you saw this over the weekend, or this was about a week ago now,

but somebody with a fake account on Twitter, posted this. Ohio state wide receiver Jeremiah Smith reveals he is making $0 in NIL this season with a fake quote that says, I want to win another national championships. I figured the money can be used to make our team stronger in other areas. And Jeremiah Smith retweeted it went, huh, with the laughing emoji. Listen, I guarantee like that there's a, there's an AI written thing on Facebook saying all that. And there's a bunch of people who believed it. Like every like, like, yeah, and they're like, I knew this young man was special.

You know the thing, Andy, and I don't know if you'll agree with me on this, like right now, obviously we're all on LeBron watch, right? Like, what's LeBron going to do? Is you going to take the league minimum or whatever? I think if you're LeBron, like, that's an okay expectation. I don't care how good you are in college. I don't think any college player should ever not get as much money as they possibly can before they make the league. Like, that would be an insane move. I don't care.

Like, I know that like just in the thought process, like, oh, what a great young man putting the university first? Nobody loves their university or should love their university enough to, to, forego all of their pre-professional football money. Like, you should get every time. Well, I don't see either coaches taking discounts, sorry. So until then, I don't think we need to expect them to do it either. Now, if you're LeBron, I would take a discount because you want to win another championship

before you're on your way out. Well, he's a billionaire. So, like, it doesn't matter. I love that. I think it was his agent Rich Paul said it on the podcast. Like, he's a legit billionaire. And so the difference in salary, be it, you know, some mid-level exception or the veteran minimum or what he would have been making with L.A.,

which was, I think you've made like 50 million with the Lakers last year. Yeah. He's like, it's a negligible amount to LeBron. I'm like, yeah. Can you imagine being so rich that $40 million is quote unquote, but I truly don't think some fans see the distinction between those two things. They might think Jeremiah Smith's made $10 million in college. He doesn't need any more money.

And that's like just not true. So we don't know how, yeah, we don't know what inflation is going to be like. Yeah, I mean, it's the most. 2016 may be a bear. I don't know if you know this, but I've been seeing a lot of this. It's the most unaffordable houses have been in U.S. history. Yeah. So. So. And if he wants one in Malibu, he needs the money.

I don't. He hasn't made enough yet. Not to own it free and clear. Yeah. If you made $10 million, you certainly could get approved for a pretty high interest mortgage on an oceanfront property in Newport Beach, but I don't think you could buy one outright. So, you know, you got work to do, young man. So do we, Ari.

Yeah. By the way, give us $10 million. That's right. Back to the beginning of the episode. If you'd like to give us to actually, we're team players. Give on $3.10 million. And we'll advertise you on our show. Is there a brand that stood out to you as like we're like I think that we have one specific brand or at least I do.

I think you were with me on this. That should be a sponsor of our show because we are huge proponents of this brand. We enthusiastically talk about this brand. Would this be a certain neighbor? Italian restaurant that's in every neighborhood and we'll drive the, drive the pizza to your house? I think, Dinoes.

Yeah, I think that the fact that the local neighborhood joint called Domino's hasn't done our podcast is insane. Because like we would be the best ambassadors that company could possibly ever have. Yeah, I guarantee you the first person in the world who's ever had Domino's cheesy bread in their top five of appetizers. I have said with a straight face on this show that it is the best appetizer in America at any level of restaurant.

I think that's worth $10 million right there. And I mean it. Come on. Tomon, let's go. So I don't know if you have another brand. You think about it. You can touch base of us.

But Kenny, thanks for the shout-out and the attempt. But the one thing I think all of our advertisers know is that we'll go above and beyond for them. So if you are a certain pizza chain that wants to get into the college football space, we would be a pretty attractive and probably affordable. Ari likes the regular plain cheesy bread. I do.

I like the pepperoni one. Yeah. I don't know what it is. I mean, we have some variety here. We can promote all of your products. Yeah, my number one food take that bothers you, and I think it bothers most people, and I know I'm weird on this, is that if there's melted cheese on the sandwich, like I don't need the meat. You should be deported. Like in breakfast sandwiches, I like egg and cheese plain. Call yourself an American.

Egg is the meat. I like the meat. I like the meat. I don't know. There's certain things. What you're saying is I like grilled cheese, which, by the way, grilled cheese is awesome. I do. But grilled cheese with bacon, even better.

Yeah, I would like the plain one. Yeah. You're a weird out. Yeah. It's weird take, but it's who I am. We love you. We'll talk to you tomorrow. Eric Morris from Oklahoma State and also the other teams besides Oklahoma State,

because we think Oklahoma State will be the most improved. But the other teams besides Oklahoma State that we think are due for the biggest improvement in 2026 we'll talk to you tomorrow