Andy & Ari On3 - How will the 12-team College Football Playoff affect the Heisman Trophy race?

Episode Date: June 24, 2024

Andy is BACK from vacation and … very little happened while he was gone.(0:00-3:02) Intro - We Are BACK! CWS Final TONIGHT(3:03-9:49) Les Miles Sues LSU(9:50-14:29) USC Recruiting Class(14:30-25:26) Jesse Simonton Joins to Discuss Heisman in the 12-Team CFP(25:27-49:39) Jesse reveals his Heisman Candidates(49:40-55:36) Defensive Players for Heisman?(55:37-59:00) Wrapping Up With Jesse(59:01-1:03:13) Social Media Trends with CFB Acconts(1:03:14-1:04:14) Conclusion, Wrapping UpLes Miles sued LSU over vacated wins, and a bunch of schools advertised their cheap in-game beer — or cheese, or SPAM — on Twitter.Tennessee and Texas A&M played two fun games over the weekend to set up a winner-take-all showdown on Monday at the men’s College World Series.Since it is prime arguing season, On3’s Jesse Simonton joins Andy to talk Heisman Trophy. Jesse spent last week breaking down potential candidates in the power conferences, and the race seems wide open. Plus, the new College Football Playoff format could affect how we view certain candidates.Who will enter the season with the best odds? And who aren’t we talking about right now who could burst on the scene and wind up in New York in December?Want to watch the show instead? We are LIVE, on YouTube and X/Twitter M-F, at 8 am et! https://www.youtube.com/live/P1sQtlLOT3g

Welcome to Andy Staples on three. I'm refreshed. It's a wonderful week of vacation. I actually watched a lot of college baseball. We'll talk about that a little bit because there's one game left in the 2023-2024 school year. We got to talk about what did I miss? Well, I didn't miss any of the baseball because I was watching it all. That's what, that's the beauty of, of when you're at the beach, when you're going fishing, when you're hanging out on the beach, you're pretty much drained from the sun by the middle of the afternoon. So you just come in and chill, watch some college world series, and then you're good. And the College World Series provided a lot of drama early.

You had the three walk-offs in the first three games. It didn't, Texas A&M and Tennessee did kind of dominate their brackets, though. They did leave a little, suck a little of the intrigue out of the week by dispatching Florida and Florida State as quickly as they did. But they did play two fun games over the weekend. That one yesterday was pretty spectacular because you had kind of a pitcher's duel going on. And basically, Jace Laviolette's home run in the first inning was the only offense. And Tennessee kept putting runners on and stranding them. And then finally, Tennessee breaks through with a two-run homer from Dylan Riley in the seventh. They add a Cal Stark homer in the eighth to make it 4-1.

And now we have a winner-take-all game on Monday night for the national championship. The last college sporting event of this season. The last one. Next week, Texas and Oklahoma are in the SEC, USC, UCLA, Washington and Oregon are in the Big Ten. Everything changes. One more. One more game. One more game. Justin Lamkin for A&M. Xander Seacrest on the mound for Tennessee. 7 o' to bring on Steve Wiltfong this week, see if there are any Fong bombs incoming, because yeah, there's a lot to talk about on the recruiting front. A lot of dominoes falling,

a lot of class of 2026 QBs starting their dominoes. So this will be a very interesting recruiting weekend. Yosef pointing out August 2nd is the Big Ten move day. Yes, you're right. July 1st is the SEC. So for Texas and Oklahoma, they are moving to the SEC. Now, we all know they're moving to the Big Ten anyway, but yes, that is the date that the others are moving.

So my bad on that one. But we got to talk about one other story I missed. One story I missed that was very interesting. There was not a lot of crazy news last week, but the one that popped on the bottom line and I was like, huh? Les Miles suing LSU in federal court. Yes. Remember LSU vacated 37 Les Miles wins.

It was part of an NCAA penalty, the Vidal Alexander case. He was an offensive lineman that played for LSU from 2012 to 2015. So 37 Les Miles' career record from 145-73, which is a 665 winning percentage, to 108-73, which is a 597 winning percentage. And if you remember my rant about Mike Leach a couple weeks ago, you have to have a 60%, a 600 winning percentage to qualify for the College Football Hall of Fame as a coach. So Les Miles now does not qualify for the College Football Hall of Fame as a coach. And now he's mad. And he would like satisfaction in the courtroom. And either financial damages or get his wins restored.

Now, well, here's the interesting part about the Les Miles situation. Remember, LSU was not his last job. He took the Kansas job. Remember Jeff Long, who was the AD at Kansas, used to be the AD at Arkansas, was hell bent on hiring Les Miles. Hell bent. He wanted Les Miles to be the AD at Arkansas, was hell-bent on hiring Les Miles. Hell-bent. He wanted Les Miles to be his coach. He tried to hire him away at Arkansas when Les was at LSU. Basically, Jeff Long cooked up this way to fire David Beatty at Kansas, tried to fire him for free, which didn't work out because David Beatty took him to court and used something that Les Miles' staff was doing to get himself paid. It was a complete disaster when Les Miles went to Kansas. Complete disaster. There was a TV show. Most of the episodes got shelved.

But here's the thing. He went 3-18 at Kansas. So had he never taken the Kansas job even if LSU had vacated these wins like they did he would still be eligible for the hall of fame had he never taken the Kansas job his career record with the vacated games would be 105 and 55 that's a 656 winning percentage so all he had to do was not take the Kansas job but as the commenters are saying Christopher Jordan those games still happen yes they did I'm not a I don't really think much of vacating wins I don't think that does much Willie says the Les Miles lawsuit will get leech into the hall of fame due to new rule changes so he is suing the hall of fame as well that is a one of the defendants uh and christopher says the 60 rule is so incredibly dumb well and i

think this is the the example here so less miles takes the kansas job it drops and blow like the kansas job was an incredibly hard job now i would argue that it didn't prove that Les Miles is, or at that point in his career was a great coach because he was fairly terrible at Kansas and Lance Leipold has been awesome at Kansas. So what does that say about where those two are? But it does kind of feed into what we're talking about with Leach. Like Leach, for whatever reason, didn't get the easy jobs. He got the hard jobs. And his winning percentage was lower because of that.

And so Les Miles took a hard job. So what does that do? I mean, if you have good coaches who want to get into the Hall of Fame, I would think twice about taking that hard job as a last job of the career. I don't think I would do it. So I don't know. It's just, it is a very arbitrary number.

The leech thing, his contributions to the game, I think outweigh not hitting that arbitrary number. Eric Russell still not in the Hall of Fame because of that same reason. You know, if Eric Russell doesn't coach at Georgia Southern, maybe, well, I don't know, but it is very weird, this whole thing. And the weirdest part is, let's say they changed the rule, or he gets the win. He's not going to get the wins back, but let's say they changed the rule. The debate at that point over whether Les Miles should get into the Hall of Fame would be really

interesting because the people who would be most against it are LSU fans. That was a weird dynamic. Remember in 2015 at the end of the season when LSU's administration floated hey we might fire Les Miles it's possible we're gonna fire Les Miles and everybody outside of the LSU family is like what are you doing why are you gonna fire Les Miles and the LSU fans like we've been begging you to do this for for three years now what took so long and they were so disappointed when less rallied the troop basically rallied his political allies including the governor at the time bobby jindal and kept the job only to get fired early the following season but that would be the

interesting debate because i i was was reading a Reddit thread. And again, if you're not on the CFB subreddit on Reddit, get there, join that community as well. That's a really good college football community, but they, they,

it was, it was kind of party lines like LSU fans. Like, I don't know. I don't know if he needs to be in there. And then everybody else like of course less miles belongs in the hall of fame so it is a very strange dynamic with lsu fans and less miles but i do i i do understand what what they're saying is he should

have done more with what he had at lsu i remember saying that when he was up for the Kansas job. He couldn't do more with more, and now you want him to do more with less, no pun intended. So it's just a very strange dynamic, but we'll see. If it gets the rule changed and gets Mike Leach and Eric Russell a chance to get in there, and then we'll see what happens with the last miles because again that is a weird weird debate there but we'll see what happens one more thing before we go john had mentioned the big recruiting weekend this weekend it's been going on all month you've had big official visit weekends you've had some commitments i mentioned the class of 2026 QBs, their dominoes have started to fall. But also the attack on USC's 2025 recruiting class, that has been one of the more interesting subplots. And remember we had Steve Wiltfong on

a couple of weeks ago and he said, watch this because this is going to get very interesting. And this is after Isaiah Gibson had visited Georgia. Isaiah Gibson is a very good defensive end from Georgia. Now it's interesting that these three guys are all from the state of Georgia that I'm going to mention. So Isaiah Gibson decommitted last week. Our recruiting prediction machine, pretty confident he's going to wind up at Georgia. Also, Justice Terry, a defensive lineman from Manchester, Georgia, who was a part of that recruiting class at USC. He's the number seven overall recruit in the on three industry rankings. He decommitted. He visited Alabama last week. Now our RPM, very confident that he will also wind up at Georgia. The other one is a guy we've talked about quite a bit and he's been committed

to USC, but we've talked about him essentially as an uncommitted recruit. And that is Julian Lewis, the quarterback from Charlton, Georgia. He was in Boulder, Colorado this weekend. And for all the fun we make of deon sanders for not making the in-home visits and not making the in-school visits they put on a show when you come to boulder they put on a show when a recruit comes to boulder so juju lewis goes to boulder he's got a burger named after him there's a photo of him sitting on a throne in a colorado uniform as shadurador Sanders is handing keys to him. I'm guessing, I think, does Shador drive a Lambo Bentley?

He drives something very nice and he's handing his keys to Shador Sanders. And Juju Lewis tweets this, could it be quote unquote perfect timing and tags Deion Sanders, Shador Sanders and Colorado Buffs football. So Juju Lewis still committed to USC, but he's visited Indiana. He's now visited Colorado. Auburn is still in hot pursuit. But listen, this Boulder visit was some serious stuff here. The Sink, legendary burger restaurant in Boulder.

Named a burger after Juju Lewis. The Juju Lewis Precision Pass Burger. Two patties, cheese, bacon. We're all good here. Red onion, don't need it. A1 aioli, which doesn't make much sense. The aioli is going to cut the A1 to a point where it doesn't taste like A1 anymore. And it's also churched up mayonnaise. So we don't need that either.

So Juju, if you do commit to Colorado, if you do flip and end up signing with Colorado, go to the sink, tell them, get the aioli off my burger. Get the onions off my burger. We can do better than this. Heinz 57, maybe some Heinz 57. But that will be a very interesting situation to watch going forward because that USC recruiting class was in the top five. It's now number 11. But we were talking about, hey, they are getting top 100 defensive players to commit to them. And that's what they've needed. Lincoln Riley has not signed players like that at all as a head coach. He has just not been the kind of coach that can get those players in bulk. That's what Kirby Smart does. That's what Ryan Day does. That's what Nick Saban did. That's what Kalen DeBoer is continuing to do at Alabama. That is how you compete for national titles. That's what Dabo Sweeney did to build up Clemson.

For all the talk about the receivers and the quarterbacks, their defensive line factory at Clemson has been incredible. And that is the problem. Stevie Davey, the real question, what kind of cheese on the Juju Lewis precision pass burger? I believe it's cheddar. I'm good with cheddar over American for sure. Like good melted cheddar, perfect. All right. We got to talk about our main topic today. Jesse Simonson joining us because he spent last week examining potential Heisman camps.

We haven't done the Heisman conversation yet. And Jesse, we need to have the Heisman conversation on this show because we keep talking about retraining our brains. 12-te team playoff everything changes i think it also changes the heisman trophy absolutely absolutely i mean uh first i want to say you know i think juju if he wants to get that a once you know aoli off he should just go in and say get the juju off my burger and they should do whatever he wants um no but thanks for having me andy yeah i mean i think the heisman conversation in 2024 and beyond

now is going to look much differently than it has in the past now i think you and i are both in agreement that until proven otherwise until these voters actually show that they care about the entire sport and not just the guy throwing the passes, it's still going to be the Davey O'Brien Award 2.0. But I do think it's going to be a bigger pool of players. And I think that's probably where we can kind of start this launching point from, that it's still going to be quarterback heavy, but I think actually more quarterbacks may have a chance to win the award than in recent years. Well, all right. So it definitely is quarterback heavy and anybody who says otherwise is just not paying attention because so you've got Devante Smith winning it in 2020. That was a very unique

situation where you had a receiver who was that dynamic, who we all recognize is the one who makes this offense truly special. Which is interesting, because the same year, I think Kyle Pitts did essentially the same thing at Florida. Now, Mack Jones and Kyle Trask both wound up being finalists for the Heisman. Pitts did not. Smith won it. But if you think about Smith in 2020, Derrick Henry in 2015, I remember being kind of the only logical choice as he was kind of carrying Alabama at the end of that season. And then 2009, Mark Ingram.

These are the last non-quarterbacks to win, by the way. These are all the last non-quarterbacks to win. 2009, Mark Ingram. I didn't think he was the best player at Alabama that year. I thought Rolando McClain was the better Alabama player. And Indomitian Sioux was the best player in the country. Yeah, I mean, and then that's one of the ones that people have pointed to for years. That, you know, Sioux's performance in the Big 12 championship game,

many believe, you know, in hindsight, that should have won him the award, and it did not. Just two years ago, I mean, Will Anderson had 17 sacks and 30 some odd tackles for loss and didn't even get invited to New York City. So again, thus far, the voters have proven unserious that they will really consider anything except for a quarterback. Now, spinning this forward, we're two years in a row, Andy, with Caleb Williams and Jaden Daniels. These are the first two quarterbacks since Lamar Jackson to be a Heisman winner that has not made the college football playoff. Before that, it was just a run on guys that were going to the championship games or going to the semifinals.

And now that we have a 12 team field, I think you're going to see even more of these nine and three type, you know, potentially nine and three team type quarterbacks winning the award. So if it is an Avery Johnson that wins the Big 12 and then leads K state to 10 and two, but maybe, you know, Georgia's undefeated or whatever. If Avery is, is as magnetic and, and just awesome as people think he could be, he's the type of guy that could kind of come in and steal the award. Well, and I think that's, so this is the the interest i don't think it's just do you make the college football playoff because by that point in the voting you only got one day left to vote now i do think most of you're just in the mix yeah right and and being in the mix so you could be eight and three or nine and two going into the final week of the season

and be in the mix and i think that that adds a lot more because that's what like would would jayden daniels have i don't would lsu have made the playoff last year i don't think they would have i don't think they would have no so not have but i think jayden daniels still would have won and because his numbers were so much better than everybody else. But I do think that this will open it up to those, but we'll close it off to other people. And so I want to visit one in the chat because this is one I find very interesting. YefJLR has mentioned this about six times in the chat.

He's saying that Travis Hunter is going to win. Okay, let's wait. Before we have this conversation, Andy, I want to posit this to you. Before we start deep diving down to candidates, I want to posit this to you. Okay, go for it. We have just discussed that we think the pool of Heisman contenders possibly, whether it is a Travis Hunter or if it's more quarterbacks, is going to be deeper than in seasons past.

But at the same time, have we killed the Heisman Trophy ceremony as we know it? Because it is a week before the 12-team playoff starts. It is on December 14th. It's actually six days. The first game is actually that Friday, not even a week. If we think more guys who are in contention for the playoff spots may be the guys involved in the Heisman Trophy ceremony, are we really going to have this whole banquet circuit

and song and dance week in New York City anymore? Or are teams going to say, we've got to prep. We've got to game. We've got to game next week. We can't go up and do it. Has the Heisman Trophy ceremony as we know it, is it totally gone? Is it going to be totally different? So I think it depends on how tight the race is.

We haven't had a really tight race in a little while. Like when you actually are nervous wondering who it's going to be as they read the name i think people are going to watch but last year it was clearly going to be jayden daniels like there was no there you had your bo nicks fans and your michael pennix jr fans but you knew it was going to be jayden nails and look part of it is we have these straw polls with media organizations that have a lot of heisman voters and they don't allow you to to publicly reveal who your heisman vote was but when you have these straw polls like a week before or or you know the day of where it's anonymous but you know they've got 25 voters like the rep it's a

pretty representative sample so you kind of know who's gonna win so so that's not what i'm actually asking i'm asking less about who's going who may or may not oh you're talking about yeah oh they actually go to new york city well we actually actually have Chris Fowler sitting down and interviewing these guys if Bo Nix last season is having to play a game in six days. That is a great... Dan Lanning and Bo Nix are really going to go spend 48 hours in New York City when they've got to be preparing for a game. No, this is private jet in for the ceremony and then you're

back out like that's yeah that's all it is the the days of troy smith getting fat and happy on the heisman banquet circuit that's over right that's over i mean like these guys he's still he's still wasn't getting away from earl everett you you go there you go there for like you said maybe i mean there's no way it's not even a 12-hour experience. These coaches, they don't want to waste a second. Yeah. So I just think it's kind of an interesting offshoot that- Oh, that is fascinating.

I didn't think about that because I was thinking about it from the viewership experience. Right. No, I'm talking about from their perspective. Are you even going to have guys zooming in to be like give me my heisman because well right because the player the player may just be like i'm not leaving i got a game i and it's funny because you hear the stories about the old days remember barry sanders was in tokyo when he won the heisman because they they played a game in tokyo uh

the the stories about uh steve spurrier when he won the Heisman in 1966, apparently like, so Norm Carlson was the director of publicity for the university of Florida at the time. May he rest in peace. He just passed about a month ago. But Norm gets a call from New York and basically call Steve Spurrier. Like,

Hey, you want a Heisman trophy? Like that was it. We're going to go back to it. I'm telling you, it's all coming full circle. So I just wanted to raise that before we talk to candidates. I just thought that was an interesting question. Christopher Jordan raises another question. So before we get to individual candidates, let's talk about this because maybe this is what needs to happen because we've talked about this before christopher says agree just move the ceremony to after the playoffs why don't we move the vote to after the playoffs yeah and i think that's something that is long overdue they just seem

so kind of you know uh deeply bedded in their ways that I'm skeptical that's going to happen. Because it's funny, too, because all these sports treat these things differently. The MVP for the NFL gets awarded like a couple of days before the Super Bowl. Yet in the NBA, we're seeing Dirk and these guys accept the award after their team gets bounced from the playoffs. So it's kind of a mismatched deal with how all these leagues award what is kind of the ultimate prestigious award. Well, and it's so New York-centric too. The idea of going to New York, you could theoretically just give it out

where the national championship game is. So even if you've got just give it out where the national championship game is. So even if you've got a guy who's playing the national championship game, you can put him in the Tahoe and drive him over and have the ceremony. But they're not going to do that. They're going to have that ceremony in New York, which is interesting because they don't even have it

at the Downtown Athletic Club anymore. That and New York, as someone who lived there for several years that most people in new york don't give a hoot about college football so there's always been kind of an irony about that well it's all it's the same day as santa con usually so all you have is a bunch of drunk santas walking around midtown midtown manhattan and then there's like they're giving out the eisen trophy then it's like oh there's derrickrick Henry walking around with a bunch of Santas. All right.

Let us talk specific candidates. And I want to get into this Travis Hunter question, because before we talk about the quarterbacks who probably have the chance to win it, Travis Hunter is one of the most interesting players we've had in college football in a long, long time. The first real true two-way star in years. Cause like Charles Woodson won the Heisman in 1997 was playing some receiver, but he was not a full-time receiver. He was not the kind of two-way player that Travis Hunter is like my thing with Travis Hunter is if he is their wide receiver one and has like 1500 receiving

yards, probably too many. It has like 1200 receiving yards and is their best corner and is really good all season. Even if they're six and six, like he's got to be on a ballot. Yeah, I think in my top 10, you know, because I did them by each power conference, and then I released an overarching top 10 at On3 this past week. I had Hunter not in that top 10 overall, but I had him as that he's going to have the story that you know he spurned Florida State and went to an HBCU then followed Dion to Colorado he's the guy that's the cover art athlete uh for the new EA sports game that everyone's so excited about so if all that momentum then kind of materializes into the kind of season that you laid out, I think his candidacy would be legitimate.

And then it would kind of be, is it good enough to tip the scales over if a quarterback, you know, also kind of has a really dynamic and amazing year, you know, that that's TBD. But I think that Hunter of all the guys that are non quarterbacks, he easily Andy has the best kind of arc, story, you know, arc plus story plus potential equals, you know, dark horse candidacy. Like, I don't see it for a guy like Ollie Gordon for the big picture. If you're breaking down like I did big 12 candidates, yes.

But when you're talking about it from a national perspective I think there's a lot bigger hill to climb there for a guy like Ollie Gordon uh or some of these other tailbacks well you got yelled at about Ollie Gordon because you you did a conference by conference columns last week and then you did a top 10 and you didn't have Ollie Gordon in your top 10 now Ollie Gordon was was the best back in college football last year we're assuming he's going to be the best or one of the best backs in college football last year. We're assuming he's going to be the best or one of the best backs in college football this year. One thing I will throw out,

especially if you're looking at big 12 futures, this is something to consider. Oklahoma state may have the oldest offensive line in the history of college football this year. So that bodes well for Oklahoma state and for Olly Gordon, any sort of Heisman candidacy or just statistical measure. Ollie Gordon's going to be good this year. And if you make the case for Ollie, it's that he didn't even become the guy for Oklahoma State until week four last season.

And then he rushed off and ended up leading the nation in rushing. Now, the flip side of that, that a lot of Oklahoma State fans don't seem to be willing to acknowledge, is that because they kind of put so many miles on him in one season, Gundy decided, hey, let's get him some help. And they brought in multiple really interesting tailbacks out of the transfer portal. So it's still going to be the Ollie Gordon show. But I think they're going to kind of, you know, ease some of those carries to some other guys, which again, if you're a running back in these days, Andy, I think the threshold minimum is being, is a 2000 yard guy that's leading a team that's making it to the playoff. Yeah. The problem for running backs, and this is as the games evolved and quarterbacks run more is there will be quarterbacks who throw for 3000 yards and run for 750, 1000. So your 1400 yard

rushing season compared to that just does not look that great. Like, like what, here's a guy and you, you've talked about this guy as a, as one of your potential winners, Jalen Milrow at Alabama, Jalen Milrow has the potential to be a touchdown machine because of how athletic he is in the run game. He's going to throw for a bunch of touchdowns in Kalen DeBoer's offense, but if he's fully unleashed as a runner as well he could have you know Tebow Cam Newton type touchdown numbers if he has a really good year like that's going to be pretty hard to compete against if you're a running back your receiver if you're anything else exactly if you're talking about a guy who could you know top 45 total touchdowns because Kalen De DeBoer has proven at various stops that if he has a guy at the quarterback position that has some wheels, he'll run them,

and he'll run them a lot. And I think with those other tailbacks, with Justice Haynes and Jam, you know, they're going to be a team that kind of leans on that big offensive line, which had two of the best transfer additions, and, you know, getting to Boomerang Proctor and then the center from Washington. So I think Mill Road could easily have 45 touchdowns, and you're just not competing against that if you're an Ollie Gordon, even if you have 2,000 yards and 20 scores.

That looks really good. It looks really good, but that looks really good in 1999. You know, in 2024, when these quarterbacks are doing what Jaden Daniels and some of these other guys are doing, it's just apples to oranges. So do we think it's probably going to be an SEC or Big Ten player? It feels like the hill to climb for the Big 12 guys and the ACC guys and then everybody else is pretty steep. Yeah, I mean, I think you really have to pick some nits.

Here's the one exception, Andy. Because there's been such bubbling hype around this team all offseason, and there is kind of like a feast or famine feel, I think with a lot of folks about the Miami hurricanes, Cam Ward is probably the exception to the, to that. It's going to be a big 10. It's going to be an sec guy because Miami is going to start high enough in

the polls where they're going to have some shine. They obviously have a huge week, one game against Florida, but because Mario hasn't done it yet, if Cam does become kind of the guy that is the prince that was promised and kind of brings them home, I think Cam Ward, and he's a guy much like Jalen Milrow that could have 40 total touchdowns. He doesn't have quite Milrow, that could have 40 total touchdowns.

He doesn't have quite Milrow's upside athleticism, but he will run. And so you get him some red zone scores. Miami has some running back concerns, as is. So if he poaches some of those touchdowns and then throws, Miami hasn't had a 3,000-yard passer since 2017, which coincidentally or not coincidentally, Andy, is the last time they won 10 games. So, you know, if he kind of helps them break through that glass ceiling,

I could see him being the exception there. Otherwise, we're talking about a Quinn Ewers, a Milrow, a Beck. Dylan Gabriel is going to be up there. I'm skeptical that Will, I think Will Howard's odds are super inflated. The fact that he has the fourth best preseason odds seemed kind of crazy to me when he hasn't even been named the starter. But as I wrote, I mean, that's kind of what you get when you become the quarterback for what many people believe is the first or second best team in the nation.

Yeah, really they're looking at the roster around him and the most interesting dynamic to that is there's a reason will howard is at ohio state and not back at kansas state and that's because kansas state is starting avery johnson it is we have two of these situations because Dylan Gabriel is not at Oklahoma because they're starting Jackson Arnold. And I don't think Jackson Arnold is a better quarterback than Dylan Gabriel right now, but they're looking at the ceiling. They're looking at how much eligibility is remaining. Avery Johnson, same deal. And you had the situation last year where they tried to kind of force Avery Johnson into that role. Will Howard wouldn't give it up necessarily. So that one's going to be an

interesting dynamic. But the Will Howard thing, he has so much talent around him, it's very hard to not look at that and say, well, he could put up some big numbers. But let's go to the situation that he left Avery Johnson, who I'm telling everybody now you have not seen a quarterback this fast since Lamar Jackson. Now, I don't know if he can throw like Lamar Jackson. We have not seen that yet. We've seen a couple nice throws. That's all we've seen so far. A couple nice throws. It's not like the year that Jackson took oh when Jackson was a freshman he had basically the whole back half of his freshman year where he took over that Louisville offense Louisville was like Bobby Trino's tweaking things and by the end of the season by the time they played Texas A&M in that bowl game the offense was then built around Lamar Jackson

and you saw in the bowl game exactly what it could be. Avery Johnson started the bowl game because Will Howard had already left, but Colin Kline goes to Texas A&M, the OC. They bring in Matt Wells, who's going to work with him. They've promoted from within as well, so they've got some continuity there. But we have not yet seen that offense built around Avery Johnson yet. We haven't seen him have a chance to be the thrower that you need to be to put up these numbers yeah and they did they did they obviously brought him some help um you know Kansas State I think really upgraded at playmaker

they brought in you know Dante Cephas didn't work out at Penn State I think he may uh find a better feel there um with the Kansas State Wildcats. And then they brought in Avery's buddy, you know, from Colorado, the former Pee Wee teammates. And that's a tailback room that's going to give him a lot of support because they bring back the number one, number two rusher in the Big 12 there as well. So we haven't seen him throw the ball yet, Andy. I'm as high as him.

You and I are both super high on him. I mean, gonna be one of the you know you know what when people are gonna realize how fast he is Andy is when they play with him on the NCAA game yes they're like agreed he's just zooming past people and it's like suddenly everyone is playing with Kansas State more than they've ever played but you know program like that You know, we're watching the thing of Nico here. Avery Johnson, Nico, Jackson Arnold, these sophomore phenoms, you know, they're kind of all, I would say, sleeper candidates, but they fit, kind of bringing this conversation full circle, I think they fit really well into the, a lot of years, maybe, you know, if they lose a couple games,

they probably wouldn't be in the mix for the Heisman. But if they're as mesmerizing and kind of electric as people expect, if they're 10-2 or 9-3 and their team is in the mix, they have a shot. They could have the quote-unquote sex appeal or the the appeal the q rating that maybe a carson beck doesn't have or people are you know people are like we've we've seen dylan gabriel let's let's give it to the you know the new flashy thing chicken 15 and 15 in the chat correcting me we have seen a quarterback as fast as as lamar since lamar kyler murray and we i Murray. Let's give Kyler his flowers on

that. But Avery Johnson is in that category in terms of speed. The question is, is he in that category in terms of arm? We don't know that yet. We'll find out. But let's talk about Dylan Gabriel because you mentioned him. Jackson Arnold takes over to Oklahoma. That sends Dylan Gabriel to Oregon. So Dylan Gabriel, similar story to that of Bo Nix, where he comes into Oregon, where Oregon's kind of a fully formed offense, very good offensive line, lots of playmakers around him. But I would argue that Dylan Gabriel was more successful in his prior career than Bo Nix was before he went to Oregon. Yeah, no argument here. No argument here.

And now he's going to have the best supporting cast he's ever had. I mean, he's going to be playing behind an offensive line that I think is probably second or third best in the Big Ten. Maybe even first. I mean, I think they're certainly better than Ohio State's offensive line, which I had a call on this past week. I think that could be kind of the one bugaboo for the Buckeyes. But, I mean, Gabriel led the Big 12 last year in his first season,

you know, in every single category. So passing, yards per attempt, touchdowns. He's a guy, again, he's not going to run a ton, but he'll poach some scores. And so he could easily get 10 touchdowns rushing, and that just adds to the figure. So the stats are going to be there. Obviously, Oregon's loaded at receiver with Treshawn Holden.

They bring in Evan evan stewart the five star from texas a&m you bring back tes johnson who was kind of the big transfer portal hit a year ago from troy it it's it's very easy to kind of build the potential for dylan gabriel's uh heisman candidacy now again uh have folks gonna say we've kind of seen him put up these stats at UCF and Oklahoma, and so maybe they won't be as impressed with it? I don't know. But, I mean, if he leads a team that could be, you know, as good as any in the country, it's hard to overlook that.

Yeah, and you look at that offense. We had Will Stein on the show a couple weeks ago. He's working to kind of mold the offense around what Dylan Gabriel does best as opposed to Bo Nix. But the things Dylan Gabriel does well are already what Bo Nix did well at Oregon in terms of he's accurate, the lower yardage passes he's extremely accurate on. So you're talking about a high 70s completion percentage with playmakers and also the ability to run.

Now, Bo Nix is a good athlete too, but there is so much to like about Dylan Gabriel. I thought it was an interesting – here's an interesting point from Angel in the chat. USCQB Miller Moss will surprise and lead his team to 10 and two and the CFP. Quick release, accurate, and a good decision maker. He's a sleeper on no one's Heisman watch list. Fight on. Angel's a USC 78 grad. I am not opposed to this take at all. I watched Miller Moss in that bowl game. He looks spectacular. And what do we always say on the show? We never worry about Lincoln Riley's offense.

We just worry about his defense. Like Miller Moss, I would imagine is going to have a good year. I mean, look, there's no quibbles here. And I did not have Miller Moss on my top 10 overall list. But on the big 10 list, I had him listed as the wildcard candidate. And I basically said, I mean,

it's, it's probably pretty smart to put a Lincoln Riley quarterback on any of these preseason lists. Even if you are skeptical, maybe a Miller Moss is upside because of just Riley's history with the quarterback position and getting these guys to either win the award or become a Heisman finalist in New York City. Like you mentioned, I mean, Miller Moss had a monster bowl game, throws five touchdowns,

but then he struggles mightily this spring, has a terrible spring game. And they bring in Jaden Maiva to potentially compete for the job so i think it's more likely that he loses his job uh to the unlv transferred than actually wins the heisman but he at least merits mention because of lincoln riley's history with the position they also open against lsu it'll be our first look at garrett nussmeyer as the full-time lsu starter and uh that's that's like a pure old school thing. Well, Carson Beck, I guess, at Georgia had that situation last year where you had the guy who waited his turn behind the really good quarterback. And now he finally gets his turn.

So Garrett Nussmeier, another one to potentially watch. Let's talk Carson Beck, though. We haven't talked Carson Beck yet. Uh, this is the guy who he's, we said, well, Howard's up there because he's got this great roster around him. Carson Beck has the achievement of being the full-time starter at Georgia

last year. Looked very good. Maybe the, the top NFL prospect draft prospect in this class. And Oh, by the way, the roster is pretty awesome around him. Yeah, honestly, Andy, I would say the biggest demerit potentially against Carson Beck is that typically

Jaden Daniels notwithstanding last season because he actually was the preseason favorite, most of the time the preseason favorite for this award just simply isn't the winner. They might be in the. Most of the time, the preseason favorite for this award just simply isn't the winner. They might be in the mix most of the year, but folks get sour if there's one bad performance or one bad game. They'd rather boost somebody up if, say, a Connor Wegman leads Texas A&M to a surprising season. Or like we mentioned with a Nico or a Dylan Gabriel he kind of you know leads Oregon to new heights but I think I mean Beck it certainly seems like the the stars are aligned for him to

just have a monster senior season he returns to school Georgia's upgraded the receiver position they lose Brock Bowers and Ladd McConkie yes but you get Lovett to come back to school. You get Rara to come back to school, and then you bring in Colby Young from Miami. You bring in Trevor Etienne from Florida to play tailback. The weapons that he's going to have at his disposal. You bring in the kid. I know Jim Nagy is really high on the tight end from Stanford. And so there is no shortage of weapons and playmakers at Carson Beck's disposal. He's not a guy that turns the ball over that much.

I think you could see Georgia need to actually air it out a little bit. And the fact, Andy, that as dominant as Georgia's been the last couple of seasons, they haven't lost a regular season game in a couple of years. They're going to be tested this fall. And so if Carson Beck can lift them up in a game at Texas, in a game at Alabama, I mean, these are going to be primetime opportunities. He shows out in those games,

then absolutely he deserves to be kind of the number one front runner for the Heisman Trophy. When you look at that Georgia schedule and you see possibilities of Heismner for the Heisman Trophy. When you look at that Georgia schedule and you see possibilities of Heisman candidate versus Heisman candidate, and we don't know exactly how they're going to perform early season, so whether they'll be in the mix at that point, we don't know. But he's got to play against Milrow at Alabama.

He's got to play against Quinn Ewers at Texas. He's got to play against Jackson Dart at Ole Miss. We haven't talked about Jackson Dart yet, but Jackson Dart, if Juice Wells is healthy, like Juice Wells and Trey Harris could be the Brian Thomas and Malik neighbors to Jackson Dart's Jaden Daniels this year. Yeah. With a Jordan Watkins who's playing the Kyron Lacey role. I mean, they're there and, you know, and they've – Lane decided, you know, Lane chose violence with the transfer portal in the trenches there because he looked at what happened to them in that Georgia game last season and said, not only do we need to recruit basically a completely mercenary defense,

but if we want to have any hopes of actually getting in these, you know, battle royales with these big boys, we have to upgrade on the offensive line. And so they just grabbed as many as they could. And they said, hey, let's let the chips fall where they may. The best guy is going to play. They held the competition over the spring. We enter summer, you know, With continued competition there And they're going to start a bunch of transfers On the offensive line Several of the guys from Washington

They've grabbed some of it So, I mean, Dart, again You talk about support And the pieces around him Ole Miss is Very well positioned there And Dart's a guy Again, I bear for repeating He can do it both ways is, is very well positioned there. And darts a guy again,

bears repeating. He's going to, he can do it both ways. Jackson dark can, you know, he'll run and he'll throw his body in, you know, into the fire. And that's the part I'm worried about with him. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And somehow Jaden Daniels survived. So we'll see if Jackson dart can do so similarly, but I'm the old miss thing is for him he's gonna have to show out in you know old miss has a favorable schedule this year it's up right now on the screen he's gonna have to show out in what in some of those key games at lsu oklahoma versus jackson uh arnold and then the big game versus Georgia in that late November setting.

So Nathan in the chat asked another interesting question. Are there any freshmen who could shock the world and end up in New York? Not necessarily win it, but we're assuming they end up in New York. As Jesse pointed out, that's a different question. But yeah, could there be any true freshmen finalists? We still haven't had a true freshman win the award it is uh it's gonna happen at some point just because you have these these freshman qbs who come in uh nathan is a nebraska fan so i i know where he's nudging us i was i was gonna say i mean dylan rayola is is uh easily easily the top candidate. And that's because, again, you put in potential plus story

and the arc that if Nebraska, which hasn't gone to a bowl game in six or seven seasons, not only, you know, finally tops that six-win plateau, but is maybe a Big Ten contender. If he gets Nebraska to the Big Ten championship, then Dylan Rayola would probably, based on how that would likely have to play out, obviously Tony White's defense is really good there. But that would probably mean the freshman quarterback was the prince who was promised and kind of the prodigal son coming home and leading them. You know, our producer here, River Bailey, is shouting out the number one player, Jeremiah Smith.

I think that's kind of a thing. He'd be great if the receiver position didn't seem to be fairly watered down in terms of how Heisman voters have viewed that spot in recent years. And so I think he's going to be awesome, but I would be skeptical that he is so dynamic that people think that he is the absolute best player on a loaded Buckeyes team. You have to be utterly dominant. And Christopher mentions a freshman, but not as a potential winner this year. Uh, he says hot take cam Coleman will win the Heisman his sophomore season next year, cam Coleman, the Auburn freshman freshman receiver this year so he's talking about a cam coleman for heisman campaign in 2025

i do think cam coleman like cam coleman probably has a chance to make a bigger impact on auburn than jeremiah smith has to make on ohio state because ohio state already has some other day like they got emeka buka they got carnell tate cam coleman could be the threat at auburn so like that of the freshman even though jeremiah smith might wind up being better we'll see they're both really good but cam coleman might make the bigger impact as a true freshman i guess uh the the guys that did you think it was interesting did you think i missed the mark andy that i didn't list any defensive players on any of my lists no i no i because i don't think i don't think there's a will anderson aiden hutchinson now james pierce maybe maybe james and Aiden Hutchinson. James Pierce, maybe. Maybe James Pierce puts up those kind of numbers,

but I think teams are definitely game planning around James Pierce. He's going to get chipped like crazy. It's hard to – like Will Anderson had that problem his last year too. It is hard when you have a great season as an edge rusher to have another great season as an edge rusher. I also think if – if say Pierce is awesome and I think Pierce is fantastic and we've seen him, you know, listed, uh, in the top 10 of a ton of, um, you know, NFL mock drafts.

I just don't think he, I don't, if, if, if he's really good, that means Tennessee is probably really good. I just don't think he gets the credit. I think Nico, even if Nico's numbers aren't otherworldly, would be the guy that most voters would likely turn their eyes to. Will Johnson is being mentioned here. Michigan's teasing that he may play a little bit of running back. We'll see.

I don't think you want to injure your first-round quarterback when secondary depth seems to be a a potential problem up there uh in Ann Arbor um but Will Johnson is is a guy that you know they can certainly try to sell it as Charles Woodson 2.0 if they allow him to return kicks and he plays a little bit of offense um and Kenneth Grant and Mason Grammer are fantastic players who and if you ask an NFL scout they'd be like well those are two of the top five players in college football and but that they're not going to be considered because we we just know they aren't yeah yeah and same for I mean same for you know I think that a transfer Nick Skorton you know uh you know he's a guy who led the Big Ten in sacks a year ago.

I think he could have a monster season for Texas A&M because he's going to be playing opposite. Shamar Stewart, Shamar Turner there in the middle. I mean, Texas A&M's defensive line for even losing Walter Nolan and some of the other pieces they lost is still going to be fantastic. If Skorton has 17 sacks like Will Anderson did, I think people would say, hey, that's a top five pick, not, hey, that's a top five Heisman candidate, even if that is deserved. I'm not saying that's not – Right.

It wouldn't merit being a top five, but just the way the voters have taken this award, and it's just, it, that's just not the way it goes. No. And, and my thing is when I vote for the Heisman trophy,

I take what happened this year. Cause you're only allowed to consider what happened this year. And I say, if I were starting a college football team from scratch based on this year, who would be the first pick for me? And I'll be honest, only once has that been a defensive player. That was Sue. My first year as a voter, I had Sue as the number one guy on my ballot. I've had quarterbacks most years. I had Derrick Henry the year he won. I didn't have Ingram the year he won number one on my ballot, but I did have Derrick Henry number one on my ballot.

Actually, I take that back. No, I had Deshaun Watson number one on my ballot that year. Deshaun Watson his sophomore year. So I had him number one and Henry number two on the ballot. And you had Caleb over Will Anderson. I did. I did. I had Will Anderson on the ballot.

I had Will Anderson over Aiden Hutchinson because he had a better year than Aiden Hutchinson. But it's tough. It is very tough to not pick a quarterback because they have such an outsized impact on the game. So it's probably going to be a quarterback. And I, you know, one other freshmen I'll point out to, to answer Nathan's question. Cause I was looking at freshmen who maybe aren't in line to start immediately, but might wind up being the starter. Demond Williams, Jr. At Washington. That's one that I have people keep telling me, watch this guy. He's going to be awesome. Now, Will Rogers is at Washington. He committed when Kalen DeBoer was there, Jed Fish talked him into staying. So Will Rogers, who started at Mississippi State for four years, he's the presumed starter at Washington. They haven't named a starter yet, but I'm just, DeMond Williams Jr., maybe this year isn't his

year. Maybe it's later, but this is one that people keep telling me, watch this guy. That's a good one. That's a good one. I would say a couple other deeper pulls. I think if a Noah Fafita, the fact that they stuck,

again, some of this is both storyline, art, narrative, and then what do you do from an actual production standpoint? Again, some of this is both storyline, art, narrative, and then what do you do from an actual production standpoint. Noah Fafita, the fact that he stuck around, you know, he stayed loyal to Arizona, didn't go bolt with his head coach,

you know, his best friend, Teotori McMillan is still there, a wide receiver. If Fafita leads Arizona, which had been just a doldrum program to a 10-win season as a freshman, and then this next season leads them to a potential Big 12 championship in their first year in the league, he's a guy that I think in terms of his odds are way lower than a bunch of the other guys we've talked about. But I think now in the new 12-team playoff, if Arizona goes 10-2 odds are way lower than a much, much, a bunch of the other guys we've talked about, but you know, I think now in the new 12 team playoff, if Arizona goes 10 and two or nine and three,

and they win the big 12, he's a guy that could really, you know, warrant some consideration. Well, one other guy, and this is, I missed this in the chat. It's way far up. So I can't find it now. So I apologize to who made this joke because it was a good one. They asked if Cam Rising is still eligible at his advanced age. Yes, Utah quarterback Cam Rising still eligible despite being about 37 years old. But that's another one that whoever leads the Big 12 champ, whether that is Avery Johnson, Ollie Gordon or Alan Bowman, Cam Rising, Noah Fafita, Shador Sanders, whoever it is, Jalen Daniels, I think that person gets serious consideration. You know, it's funny because I had Rising as like a little thing. I made a little note about him in my Big 12 Heisman Top 5 list, you know, because he missed all last season.

He's two for two, Andy. If he, you know, the last two years he was healthy. He won Pac-12 championships. If he wins three in a row, that's a pretty that's a pretty good storyline to kind of start as a base now will the stats be there that's probably what's going to ding cam rising the most because he doesn't put up the most prolific numbers in comparison to some of these other quarterbacks is not about compiling stats he's's about cinching you down and winning that game. He's about compiling dubs, which he's done a lot of. But Cam Rising, at least, I'm glad you mentioned him

because of all these seventh-year guys, he would have an interesting story if he leads the Utes in year one to a Big 12 championship, which for him, which would be three titles in three seasons. Yeah. It's going to be fascinating how this all works this year. This is, there's so much to chew on and it's does feel wide open.

Like there's not, I know I will say whoever in Vegas was on the Jaden Daniels train this time of year last, because this is when he made the move in the odds. Yeah, they were smart because I don't think I would have said, I probably would have said, okay, I think Jaden Daniels is going to have a pretty good year,

but I don't think I would have said Jaden Daniels is going to post historically great numbers and they, they nailed it. They absolutely nailed it so uh what watch watch the moves watch those line moves see what happens these next few months because that was an interesting one where like you said the favorite the betting favorite going to the season rarely wins it but jayden daniels made a move in kind of like june july august that we didn't see coming now jackson dart's gonna do it and then uh he's gonna end up zooming in because he and lane can't

fly up to new york because they got to play that first weekend and and or january 21st first weekend of the playoff late on the zoom is going to be spectacular on heisman zoom oh this is great jesse thank you so much now you've given us more to think about another new wrinkle every time we talk about this season i told you man i tell you yeah thanks for having me andy all right that's the great jesse simonton of on three the heisman race is going to be fascinating this year now it may be somebody we didn't even mention who just runs away with it because that happens sometimes it just happens somebody comes out of the blue like Johnny Manziel

was red shirting at Texas A&M we didn't have anybody nobody even had him as the starter maybe some Texas A&M insiders this time that year had him as a starter, but remember he got into trouble. Nobody knew what he was going to be. There may be somebody out there like that this year, but we will find out. Now, one other thing that happened during the week I missed, and this was definitely a slow news week thing. This was definitely one of those deals where people who work for college football,

social media accounts, just decided to get busy and have some fun because there wasn't much going on. So last week, there was some Twitter account that incorrectly stated that Tulane had the cheapest beer in college football. So Tulane advertises this. Cheapest beer in college football. Come see us at Uelmen Stadium. Well, naturally, this ticks off some people west of Tulane on I-10. The people at Louisiana Lafayette, the actual cheapest beer in college

football. That's right. $2 Natty Lights when you go watch the Raging Cajuns play. But then everybody else decided to jump on board. It escaped the state of Louisiana and the beer argument kept rolling. Missouri's like, we have cold beer too. We also have a playoff contender. Come get season tickets. Charlotte with its gold rush lager, the goldest lager in college football.

Pittsburgh, the freshest iron city light in college football i think they're the only stadium serving iron city light but neither here nor there umass has its own beer massachusetts lager the best lager in college football they say ucf the most buzz in college football because apparently they sell buzz balls at UCF. That's right. You can get a cappuccino buzz ball at the bounce house. Now at BYU, they don't sell beer, but they do advertise the coldest chocolate milk in college football from the BYU Creamery. Not to be outdone, New Mexico, the hottest green chili in college football. Let's go get some hash chilies. Mississippi State, the best cheese in college football.

Now, that was quickly pounced upon by the people at Wisconsin and at Washington state who believe they have the best cheese in college football, but I guess we'll have to sample some cheese and find out. And of course the best one of these Hawaii, the best spam musubi in college football. What is that? You ask? It's essentially a sushi roll created when you have a bed of rice, a piece of spam over the top, and you wrap it with seaweed. That actually sounds pretty awesome. That'd be a pretty good game day snack. They love their spam in Hawaii. I know what you're thinking. Spam? No. Maybe you haven't had enough spam in your life. Just telling you.

I'm not, look, spam doesn't sponsor this show. If they would like to, I can tell you who to call. But spam is pretty spectacular. I'm just telling you that right now. I get it. It's in the tin can. It makes the weird sound coming out.

You're thinking this can't be good. No, no. Fry up a piece of spam, eat it plain, make a sushi roll out of it, however you want to do it. I promise you will not be disappointed. You also will not be disappointed with this show the rest of the week. We are back in the saddle. We are going. Is there a ton going on in college football right now? Yes, in the recruiting world. So of course, we will have our friend Steve Wiltfong on this week to talk recruiting. We got to get our buddy Philip Dukes back. We haven't had him in a while. We can talk some recruiting with him. Also got to get ready for Texas and Oklahoma heading to the SEC officially on Monday.

And then, oh, by the way, the last college sports event of the 2023-2024 school year is tonight. So we'll talk about whoever wins the baseball championship tomorrow. Texas A&M and Tennessee, 7 p.m. Eastern time. Plus, you've got a game seven in the Stanley Cup finals. A lot of winner take all going on Monday night. You'll be winners if you show up here on Tuesday morning. We'll talk to you then.