Andy & Ari On3 - Inside Alabama’s QB Competition: Will Kalen DeBoer select Austin Mack or Keelon Russell? Nick Saban's Schedule Fix | Florida QB1 Battle | New CFB Rules in 2026

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

As Day 3 of SEC Media Days are underway, Kalen DeBoer kicked the morning off in Tampa Bay by answering a number of questions surrounding the Alabama football team, mainly on who will be the starting quarterback in Tuscaloosa this season. As a decision looms between Austin Mack or Keelon Russell, who is the right choice for Alabama? When do the Crimson Tide need to know? Watch here as Andy & Ari dive DEEP into the quarterback competition in Tuscaloosa.   (0:00) On Today’s Episode (0:57) Presenting Sponsor (2:26) Intro: QB1 for Alabama (12:57) When does DeBoer need to decide? (18:06) Alabama at Kentucky in Week 2 (19:40) Saban’s Big Fix (36:55) Send us your questions! (40:08) Florida QB Battle (48:40) Sumrall’s history with QBs (50:14) ZenAI (51:21) Preview of John McDaid (52:00) McDaid joins: Tampering (58:58) Punt Formations (1:02:21) Fair Catch Kick (1:05:33) Closing out with John McDaid (1:07:09) Thanks for watching!   Next up, former Crimson Tide head coach Nick Saban had some interesting comments on the SEC Network set regarding an all-power 12 game schedule in college football. Andy  & Ari debate if this idea is a good idea or not? Would it be better for the sport? What about the G5 schools?   Alongside Kalen DeBoer, Florida head coach Jon Sumrall is also facing a decision at quarterback on the horizon. With the decision between Tramell Jones Jr. and Aaron Philo, Andy & Ari discuss how this battle will shake out in Gainesville. With some lackluster opponents the first two weeks of the season, will the Gators have some time to figure it out?   To close the show, John McDaid, the SEC’s Coordinator of Officials joins the show to discuss with Andy all the new changes coming to college football this fall.   Thanks for watching! See you tomorrow from day 4 of SEC Media Days!   Send your questions to: [e-mail] [e-mail]   Our show is also presented by BetMGM!   If you haven’t signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code CFB and you will get up to a $1500 First Bet Offer on your first wager with BetMGM! Here’s how it works:   1. Download the BetMGM app and sign-up using bonus code CFB. 2. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game. 3. You will receive up to $1500 in bonus bets if your bet loses! Just make sure you use bonus code CFB when you sign up!   Make this college football season one for the history books. Make it legendary.   See BetMGM.com for Terms. 21+ only. This promotional offer is not available in DC, Mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET (Available in the US) . 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), 1-800-327-5050 (MA), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR). First Bet Offer for new customers only (if applicable). Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel   Check out Zen AI here: http://bit.ly/zenAI_bpp_itf   Watch our show on YouTube! https://youtu.be/GrY4nvtenwc   Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari Wasserman Producer: River Bailey   Interested in partnering with the show? Email [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On today is Andy and Ari on three presented by BetMGM, Alabama coach, Kaelin DeBoer updates the Crimson Tides quarterback competition. What is he looking for in the next QB1 at Alabama? Plus, Nick Saban advocates for every power conference team to only play power conference teams. Ari and I imagine a world where that happens. Plus, Florida coach John Summerall updates his quarterback competition and leads. the door open for the possibility of Aaron Philo and Tramel Jones Jr. playing at the beginning of the season. And we get a visit from the SEC coordinator of officials John McDade to talk about all the new rule changes for college football in 2006. There's a big change of the targeting rule.

And there is a crazy, weird special teams rule that is changing that I really hope we get to see some of. We'll talk about it all on today's Andy and Arion 3 presented by BEDMGM. This show is brought to you by a bed MGM. the spreads, all the win totals we discuss. Come from BedmGM. We're going to talk about that Oklahoma win total today. We're probably going to talk about that Tennessee one this week, maybe that Auburn one when they come on Tuesday of this week.

It's the SEC Media Day. So we are talking about the future in college football. But there is plenty going on in the present. The All-Star breaks over baseball, getting hot and heavy. And you get a little bonus from BedmGM, a no sweat home run. Did your home round bet come up short? Thanks to this MLB, no sweat, home run token. You don't have to worry if your bet didn't clear the fences.

Just activate your token when you bet on any player to hit a home run in a major league baseball game. If that player fails to go yard, you will get your stake back in bonus bets. That is betmgm. Make it legendary this week with betmgm. See betmgm.com for terms 21 plus. Only this promotional offer is not available in DC, Mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem call 1-800 Gambler or 1-800 My Reset available in the U.S. 8778-8-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope-N-Y 467-369-3-6-9-0-0-0-Masachusetts, 1-800-Betts off in Iowa,

1-800-1-80-2002-3 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only if applicable subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withthrobable bonus bets that expire in seven days in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Welcome to Andy and R-R-R-3 presented by BetMGM. here at SEC Media Days and Alabama and Florida in the house on Wednesday morning. And Ari Kailin Abora came and got peppered with quarterback questions, as one would expect when the Crimson Tide are in the throes of a major quarterback competition.

And there still is one heading into camp between Keel and Russell and Austin Mack. Andy, you know, we've descended so deep into the new era of college football that we forget that that's what Media Days used to be about. Like people would pepper coaches questions about their roster and their quarterback competition and their receiver competition and their depth issues. And now it's all these holistic views of the sport and NIL and how things are changing and scheduling and all this stuff.

Back like seven years ago, like Media Day was literally to go meet the teams. So, you know, and Kaylanda Board didn't get asked much about the Senate bill. Let's put it that way. It was a lot about his team. Yeah. And maybe that's like a good way to like judge how strong a team is going into the season. How much did the coach get asked specifically about their roster? And if it was very little, that means they're probably in a pretty good spot.

But, well, I think Alabama, Alabama isn't a good spot, but there's some question marks. Obviously, they revamped their offensive line. They brought an Adrian Clem to coach the offensive line, revamped the tight end room too. So this was a team that couldn't run the ball at all last year at the end. And they've got to figure out how to do that. And I think if they can, I'm not sure it matters. matters to they play a quarterback, their playoff contending type team. But obviously the quarterback decision is going to play a huge role in what they are this season.

Yeah. And of course, the type of quarterback that you have can conversely open up the run. So it seems to me that through the portals like Alandi and through the off season, they did a huge, you know, self-check evaluation of what went wrong. And it seems like they've done everything they can to rectify the situation. I believe they have a new offensive line coach. They spent money in the portal to bring in offensive linemen in order to help fix that. But what we saw from Alabama on the ground last year was so anti what you would expect from Bama.

I mean, like, think about, you know, all the glory years of the past 15 years. Obviously, you have the flashy receivers in the explosive offense. But like, what's the thing that you think about when you think of Bama? I think about Derek Henry. That's what comes to mind. And obviously in football, you're not going to get very far if you can't run the ball. And we'll see how it goes for them this year. Yeah, I mean, it was jarring last year, watching at the end with them unable to run the ball.

And you and I have talked about this throughout the spring and end of the summer. Does that influence their quarterback competition? And the fact that they're keeping most of the stuff under wraps and we haven't gotten to see all of this, we don't know exactly how much better the offensive line is or if it's better at all. But I, you know, I would assume if you feel like it's better, then you're not as worried about whether you're a quarter. quarterback can help carry you in the run game. If you think it's going to be similar, then, yeah, if you've got a quarterback who runs better than the other, then perhaps that's what you want to go with.

And I found that interesting hearing Kalin DeBoer talk today because, so Keel and Russell is the red shirt freshman. I don't even know if we're allowed to call them red shirt freshman anymore, Ari, since there are no red shirts anymore? What are they called now? Second year freshman. Keel and Russell's a sophomore, I guess. He gets five years to play five, so he's a sophomore.

and then he'll but people just seniors twice super senior okay yeah super senior fifth year senior I like super senior just because it sounds more like a superhero but yeah fifth year year senior something like that but yeah so keeler russell's a second year player didn't play last year austin mac was the backup to tie simpson last year austin max signed with cayland devore Washington followed him to alabama and has been waiting patiently for his chance to be the starting quarterback for a caylin the board team. So that's the situation they're in right now. The assumption is Keel and Russell is the better runner. And if you look at his high school tape, you certainly saw him run a lot. But,

you know, Ari, Kailen Boar said on Wednesday, do not sleep on Austin Max's legs. Larry Carlson, history of Longhorn Sports. Coach, I was hoping maybe you could compare and contrast Keelan and Austin for us a little bit and where they are right now. Yeah, guys that are in their different years as far as, you know, Austin going into his fourth year, really the fourth year in this system, Keelan going into his second. So there's a little bit of a difference there. You know, I know that both of them would say what they know now versus what they even knew a year ago. I think especially in Keelan's case when it comes to just football knowledge of understanding of the offense, understanding of how you attack a defense. defensive structure. I think their their reps have you know, have helped them really take these big jumps, especially in the last five months. So and I think last year helped them too with the reps that we did we give them. We're very intentional with how we distribute them. And so, you know, I think skill set wise, you're talking about, you know, a much taller, bigger, you know, quarterback with Austin.

Austin, I think, will surprise people when he really gets out and runs because he runs very well. Better I think than most people think. Keelan is very versatile that way, you know, has created with his legs, you know, as a high school football player. You can see it at times. It's hard to replicate when you're in practice and a guy's not live and what that might lead to on the football field in a game.

But both of them are more than capable. I think they're high level elite quarterbacks. Fortunately, we have both in our program. And it's going to be a competition that's going to lead to a tough decision. It's one that we're fortunate to have. And it's going to be one that when we do make the decision that we'll be confident, we'll do a great job because they are two guys that are well respected by our entire football team because of how they work, who they are as people, and the production and what they look like on the football field.

So that strikes me as Kailin DeBore saying, don't assume it's Keelan just because he's the... Because he can run. You think he's a better runner. And, you know, very clearly pointing out that Austin, Max in his fourth year in the system, that he knows quite a bit about what they want and what they want out of that offense. But also, the part about Keelan being difficult to simulate in practice or being difficult to understand necessarily, what Keelan can do in practice. I think that's real.

I think when you have a guy who's a dynamic athlete, the quarterbacks aren't live at practice. You really don't know what you have. And I go back already to 2012 and talking to Cliff Kingsbury about their preseason at Texas A&M when Johnny Mansell won the job because Johnny won the job, but they weren't quite sure what they had in him.

And remember, they got their first game against Louisiana Tech canceled because or postponed to later than the season because of a hurricane. And so until they played four or week two, they had no idea what they had in Johnny Mansell and very quickly figured out, oh my God, this guy is magic with his legs.

Yeah. And it changed the way they called the offense the rest of the season. Yeah. The more dynamic, the player is the harder it is to, to figure out what you have, which means what, Andy, the only way you truly do figure that out

is by putting them on the field. Yeah. So I don't know how this is going to look or who's going to win the job. But like there is a possibility that Keelan gets into the game in the fall, does some things that makes your jaw drop. And then all of a sudden you find yourself in a position where you have no choice but to go with that guy.

I mean, Alabama is no stranger to having to make some pretty intense quarterback changes. You know, we saw one happen in the national championship game. The national title game. Yeah. I don't know what I don't know what's going to happen. But I do know that like we always talk about how. how difficult quarterback decisions can be. And I'm always the guy that's like,

how can both players be the same exact, you know, evaluation? Can't one be 5% better than the other? But I do find that this is probably one of the more difficult evaluations, one, because I think, too, that we're finding that experience in college football is a huge deal now. And having somebody who's been in college football and has followed Kalin DeBoer through multiple teams and system,

I mean, in the same system, probably gives you some things from a, you know, experience standpoint that Russell just can't do without plenty. So, you know, I don't know how you would feel about this, but do you go with the mega freak athlete that was a five-star player and can do things to make your jaw drop? Or do you go with the guy that, I mean, frankly, is a little bit more like Ty Simpson in the way that his career went out. You know, took his time, has been around the scene developed. And now, Ty Simpson ultimately was a first-round draft pick. Let's not forget that.

So, Ty is also a very good athlete. Yeah, Ty Simpson also a very good athlete who did give them some running threat before he got hurt a little bit as a season, you know, late in the season, he's a little hobbled, especially that Georgia game in the SCC championship. But I don't know. Did you sense a lien one way or the other are? No, I, you know, I've spent a long time, uh, trying to cover quarterback battles. And the one thing that I think I've learned, Andy, and I don't know if you agree with

this is that if there is a lien, the lien isn't going to be revealed at the podium at SEC media days, you know, like it's they, if they, if they're interested in keeping it under wraps, which clearly they are, then they're going to veil. But they're going to mask it. And I think that, you know, we get to a point in the season where it's impossible to mask because we're watching them play the games. So, you know, when we're in July, late July, as we're heading into August and in the season, I think that, you know, you have to wait to see who they name or what they do for the first

game. But as the season unfolds, if both end up playing, I think that the fan's going to have a pretty good grasp of who should be playing. Because quarterback, I think, is pretty easy to decipher once you see them play. playing against good competition on the field on Saturdays. So they started off against East Carolina, which was a pretty good team in the American last year, and then it's at Kentucky,

and then Florida State comes to them. So I feel like they kind of need to know by week two who they want to roll with. If you want to experiment, you may want to swap, if you're going to swap them, do it against East Carolina, but I don't even know if they want to do that.

I mean, when you've got one week of runway, you may just want to pick a guy and see how that looks. Is your gut telling you one or the other being there? Not really, no. I did think the way he sort of talked up, Austin Mac, like saying, hey, he's better a runner than you think. It's the fourth year in the system.

I do think that there's probably something to that, and there's some loyalty there. And this is a guy who followed him from Washington, who has waited, who's had chances to go elsewhere, who decided to stay. So I think probably you would naturally lean that way. But again, you saw Keel and Russell in the spring game, and you've seen his high school tape. If the guy is truly magic, you play the guy who is, like, if you have a guy you think could be really special,

you play that guy. Yeah. I mean, anybody who's ever watched football or coach football knows that having an X-factor difference maker, a quarterback is night and day comparison to what. what kind of team you have. And that's not to say that Austin Mac isn't, but here's a fact. I think Keelan Russell displays and illustrates certain physical traits that, frankly, Austin Mac probably doesn't have. So is the experience and loyalty and the calming

factor that you bring to the offense based on how long you've been in school a trait that's more important than, you know, dynamic, unpredictable results? Like, I don't know. That's the coach's job to assess. But, you know, I do think at some point, Keelan's going to have a really good college career. And, you know, the thing that you have to also take into account that you didn't have to take into account seven, 10 years ago is that if they pick Austin Mack, what does that mean for Keyland's future? Like that, like, that's, there's more to it, too, than just who do you pick for the season this year. There's also long-term ramifications that, you know, could come into play, even though there's no portal window till after the season. Yeah.

All right. So let's hear from Kalin DeBoer what he's looking for. Good morning, Coach. AP, stead of AP, as we see it. Beyond the throwing accuracy in the playbook mastery, what are some of the game management and leadership traits you are relying on to determine who will get the first nap? Yeah, a poise, poise, you know, the guy who can move the ball up and down the field. I really believe, I said it earlier, but our quarterbacks do have the belief and trust amongst our entire team. There's different ways where I've seen that, whether it was in the spring or as I've seen this through the summer, there's different conversations, there's different activities that we do, where I really can get a good feel of it being genuine that our team trusts that whoever steps on the football field and takes those snaps is going to be a guy that, and I think that's because they believe in both guys.

You know, the poise, though, you know, that's hard to create, and that's what we got to do with our entire football team, not just the quarterback position, putting guys in spots where there is adversity, where there are moments that are tough and challenging, how they process. But again, that comes down to the poise that you've got to have. We need the guy that can move the ball up and down the field the most efficiently and effectively and, you know, make the guys run him better. but from a character standpoint, from a work ethic standpoint, and again, a production standpoint, as I mentioned earlier, these guys have the team, and now it's just a matter if we're going to have to decide which one takes the first snap, as you mentioned.

And does the one who takes the first snap necessarily take all the snaps? I don't know. It sounds to me like that answer sounds like, hey, I'd love to see both these guys in the game. Yeah. But I don't know if you, again, when you, have East Carolina, which again, was a pretty good American team last year.

I know they lost some guys in the portal. But if they're pretty good, I don't know if I want to be experimenting at quarterback, especially when I have an SEC game the next week. I kind of want to know at that point. And we're going to talk about Florida a little bit where I think they do sort of have the runway to do more experimenting with their situation,

which is very similar to Alabama's situation, as far as the two guys. So I don't know. Ari, I think it's going to be a tough decision for Caitlin Abor. I think you'd probably love if one of them would make it easy on him, but it doesn't sound like they have. Yeah, I mean, I think it is interesting because you do mention having a runway and how that can be beneficial if you want to do some musical quarterbacks.

But like, are you on potential upset alert for Alabama at Kentucky Week 2? I don't know that. I want to see them play East Carolina first. But no, I'm excited to see them. what Kentucky is under Will Stein. I think we've talked about that, that they could be dramatically improved because they did go into the portal and beef up their offensive line in a big way. They got Kenny Menchy, and we don't know what Kenny is, but we do know that Kenny basically went to the wire with CJ Carr in the Notre Dame quarterback competition last year.

So there's a, like he's just, you know, that that notch below CJ Carr as of this time last year, there's a chance Kenny Minchie's a really, really good quarterback. Yeah, guys, I got to tell you this. I didn't have a great run last year with our picks, and we know we will resume that once the season starts with our weekly pitch. So if Kentucky's getting double-digit points in this game, I'm already taking Kentucky. Like, I just want you to know that like I'm on high alert for Kentucky.

I don't know. Maybe I'm a very, uh, I don't know. Our guy, Nick Rouse has already put it out. He already guaranteed the victory, didn't he? Yeah, Nick works for KSR for Kentucky Sports Radio. So that I consider the source. but yeah, he's put himself out there and he understands the

ridicule that could come his way from our friends at Damme Online is a distinct possibility but Nick strikes me as somebody that thrives in the ridicule though. He doesn't strike me as somebody that's going to lose any sleep over being ridiculed. He's also the man who called

Nico Yamaliyama a volleyball player who can't hit the go ball, I believe was the exact quote. Yeah. I mean, maybe he's a prophet. I don't know. He turned out to be right for a while there. All right. So from someone who may have poorly predicted the future in Nick to someone also named Nick,

who I think probably can tell the future a little bit better than most people, that would be Nick Saban. So Nick Saban at SEC Media Days on Wednesday with his former team in town and was on the ESPN set. And he proposed a very interesting idea because there's been a lot of talk about scheduling this week, complaints about the SEC going into the nine game schedule, complaints that the Big Ten doesn't require a power conference, non-conference opponent for its teams. Nick has a solution for that. Nick Saban says 12 game schedule, 12 power conference games.

Roll that audio, River. Yeah, and if you make the SEC championship game, obviously that's a 10th SEC game, and then you have your eyes on the college football playoff. Nick, you've been a proponent of moving to a nine SEC game schedule for a while. What have your conversation's been like about how things might change this year? Well, I've been a proponent for 10 years, so it only took us 10 years to get to this. You know, first of all, players love to play in competitive games, number one. Second, fans love to see competitive games.

That's number two. And I also think that it's important that you give even a better opportunity to prove that you're the best team that you belong in the SEC championship game. So I actually think we should play 12 games against Power 5. That's it. Preach. Because it's a business and people want to see those games. TB wants to have that kind of inventory to show those games. So I think that's really, really important. And I'm glad that we've gone to a nine game schedule. I think it'll be more interesting for the players and the fans. So Nick Saban wants a super league, but a power four super league. So he said power five. And look, that's probably forced to have it thinking the pack 12. Pac 12 is not a power conference anymore. But all. Would you be down with this? As a consumer, is this something you'd want where ACC, SEC, SEC, Big 10, Big 12, all of them just played each other? I don't know who wouldn't want this.

I think that, A, you have you. I know fans of the group of six schools, but yes. Well, yes. I mean, but from a playoff national college football standpoint, it would be very helpful for A, everybody to only play power. teams so that the schedules are all even. It would also give us more context because you would inherently have a bunch of crossover between conferences, which then give us more idea of who is superior. There would be no dud games.

You know, there are a lot of, you know, I made a comment over the weekend about the World Cup final on how boring the game was. And I got a bunch of people responding, well, there's a lot of 59 to three games in college football that suck, too. I think that we would probably get, we'd still get some of those games, but it wouldn't be as frequent. And I just think that like, you know, Saban mirrored what you say on the show all the time, which is this is an entertainment product.

And every week, if your team is playing against a team that has power athletes on it and are on scholarship, you know, you're going to have favorites. You're going to have good teams and bad teams, but you're hopefully going to get, you know, games that in theory should be or are more likely to be competitive than you do with four out of the twilight. I mean, like, think about it, Andy. We talk all the time about how it's July. And it's like, oh, we're at SEC Media Days or you're, you know, interviewing this guy.

we're thinking about schedules oh my god we're so close to football it's like you only get 12 games a year a whole year you only get 12 waste them why are we wasting a month of it you know i don't know uh what the fix is i don't know how you would even do this like like i think people say things that sound great i don't know what the application is in terms of what that means for the group of five also schedules are are are scheduled out for eight 10 years like how would you do it i think is an interesting discussion. But in three, of course, as a consumer of the sport, I would love that. And I also know, and we had this conversation with Brett McMurphy, a big 12 a few weeks ago, Andy, the group of five is really, the group of six, whatever it is now, is very big

on playing in the same system. I think it means a lot to them financially. I think they get a kick out of potentially playing their way into a playoff spot. I mean, all those things about being in the system, I think is valuable for them. But I also think, too, that they, things would just be healthier if we just called it what it is, which is two different levels of football. If you separated them, I don't know, like, financially what that would mean for some of those teams to not get the huge gates or the huge revenue paychecks from going on playing these teams on the road. But if there was a group of six championship game and a power championship game, I think that would be healthy, just in the sense that we would like, we don't

have to pretend anymore. Everybody knows the score. Why are we pretending that it's the same thing? Well, and the thing is, like, you and I have talked about this. We both want this to be a wide spread, like lots of schools involved. We don't want it to be reduced to like a 32 team super league. This would be the happy medium, I think. So that would be 68 teams because you're including Notre Dame this bunch. So if you did the ACC, Big 12, Big 10, SEC in Notre Dame, that's 68 teams. Like, that's pretty big.

That's pretty broad. That covers most of the country. It's the entire country. What area of the country is not covered? That would be otherwise covered like the Dakota is in Wyoming. Yeah, the Dakota's Wyoming. Yeah, New Hampshire, Maine. I wonder,

but I do wonder how much of our listenership comes from those states. Now, I'm assuming that we get some. But like, does a die of Wyoming family? Yeah, they might be Nebraska fans too. Yeah. And it's not, and it's not me saying that they shouldn't be in the system or that their teams are worthless. But if Wyoming,

plays Georgia on the road, we know what's going to happen already. Like I just, I don't know. And this is me also understanding too that the group of six is a lot of schools that care a lot about football. There's high level players in those systems and those players actually feed into the power rosters now. See, that's also part of the problem though. It's essentially become a farm system and it makes it very hard.

Like if East Carolina were bringing back the team it had last year to go play Alabama in week one, we'd be talking about that as a potentially very fun week one game. Yeah, but they're starting quarterback last year's the starting quarterback at Michigan State now. So, like, it's Illinois. Illinois, I mean, sorry, yeah, he started at Michigan State. My bad. Yeah, Kate and Hauser. So, but that, exactly, and they're starting left tackles now the starting left tackle at NC State.

So if it were the way it used to be where they could retain those rosters, then I might not say this. But now that it is this way that the line of delineation is so clear, I do think that it, it would be probably more fun for the majority of the audience if it were just those 60. See, 68 is fine with me. It's when you go down and you want to drop it down to 40 or when you drop it down to 32 or whatever. Yeah, all the teams that are currently in the power remain in that league. Yeah. There are no power teams left out.

But here's the other thing, Andy, too, that I find to be quite funny. the group of five when it was the group of five before the playoff system or before they were guaranteed a spot and before NIL actually I believe produced teams that were very good or good enough to to compete. Boise State from 2006 through 2010, the 2017 and 2018 UCF teams that were in in the group of five. Like those were really, really good teams. Those teams might not have been able to beat the Alabama's of those years, but they certainly were as good, if not better, than the majority of the Power 5 of those years. So it used to happen.

But then the system changed, and we guaranteed the group of five a spot in the playoff at the very same time that we took away their ability to retain their players. So it's almost like, it's like a joke where it's like finally they have a seat at the table, but it's like their chair is wobbly. Like it doesn't, it's not fair to them. So like John Summer. Yeah, John Summerall is here today.

He coached Tulane last year. He got him into the playoff. They won the American, but he was talking about playing Ole Miss. And they ended up, they actually played Ole Miss the non-conference last year. They remember this is Tulane team that beat the ACC champion Duke in a non-conference game. But he's talking about playing Ole Miss, which is a legit, you know, good playoff team. And they played them in the regular season and then played them in the first round of the playoff. And he goes, they beat the shit out of us in the first meeting.

And then they had another coach. the shit out of since second meeting. Like it just. Well, it's like you saw. There was nothing going to be a chance in that game. Yeah, if you watched the JMU game together. In fact, we were waiting at the J. Oregon game.

Yep. And it's just like JMU was a very good G6 team last year. Oregon played them like it was, it wasn't even a, you know, and I know they made things interesting a little bit from a scoreboard perspective in the second half and they wouldn't go away. So kudos to them.

But Oregon, every single play was a 40-yard game. Like, it's just like it wasn't football. Like, the way that so if jm u won the national championship of their level would that be more satisfying than getting boat race by oregon in the first round of the playoff game that nobody's watching because there's an NFL game on at the same time like it doesn't make any sense to me so here's the thing producer river can you throw up Alabama schedule for us because uh all right let's look at Alabama schedule so i mentioned east carolina and when we mentioned obviously

they got florida state in week three that's their that is their power conference non-conference opponent and then they played Chattanooga in week 11 so let's say this is you wouldn't be playing anybody in week 11 and by the way the SEC has told them to all go away from the FCS team in week 11 going forward so we're not going to see that much anymore anyway but let's say the first three weeks let's say so you move Kentucky back into the back half of the schedule and then let's say the first three weeks instead of East Carolina and Chattanooga and Florida State were Illinois Baylor and Florida State.

So much more entertaining. So much more entertaining. You know, and the other thing, too, Andy, you mentioned earlier on this offseason that the week one schedule is a joke. If you go look at the week one schedule of what we get this year, if everybody was playing a powerful opponent that week, they would make it virtually impossible for that to ever occur again. There will never be another wasted week in the history.

Like every slate would be loaded every single week. But you know how there's some. Yeah. Big new kickoff week one is North Texas, Indiana. Yeah. That's pathetic and should never happen. Yeah. It could be Indiana Florida State or something.

Like that would be fun. Or Indiana, even Indiana Wake Forest is better. Hey, Ari, Indiana, Texas Tech. Yeah. Who wouldn't watch that? And like also the Big 12 is constant, like, you know, the thing that sticks out to me, Andy, is like you hear things like from Pat and Arduzzi. We didn't talk about this on the show, but he said this at ACC Media Days last week

where there's a lot of this theory. It's always though. ACC's better than the Big Ten. I've been coaching in this or skill, whatever he said. He said something in that vein. It's been a long time since he coached to the Big Ten, by the way. The Big 12 also is fighting an inferiority complex to a certain extent

in terms of being viewed as equals. Don't you think Baylor would like to play Bama? They're playing Auburn this year. So yeah. Yeah. I agree. Like in these, in the, you don't think that that Houston would like to play Ole Miss? Like, I don't know.

Absolutely. I think that it would be a really, it would be a net positive for the viewership standpoint. I think that we would get a more thorough evaluation of the resumes. And I think that the playoff, there will always be a controversy and disagreements because that's the way the sports set up. But I think that we would have a better understanding and a more sturdy foundation to select from with that sample size of information. And it would be a more entertaining product and it would not see that the thing I worry about

or any sort of super league situation. And this is a super league situation that we're talking about. But I don't think it takes away the fabric of college football. I don't think it takes away the lifeblood of college football, which is all over the country, all kinds of different universities. 68's plenty. 68 is a good number of teams for that. Yeah.

Yeah. I agree with that. And I also don't know if Washington fans are going to be like, oh, shit, we're not playing Emerillow State this year. Like, I don't think that like anyone's going to miss that. No, no, no. Well, that one's going to be weird because Washington State and Oregon State wouldn't play Oregon and Washington in that scenario. Yeah.

And that's, that's weird. What do you do with those two, by the way? Can we like, we never address this on the show? Do you want a grandfathering back in? I mean, I wouldn't be against it. Would you be against it to get at the 70, nice round number? just tell the big 12 they have to take them and grandfather them in? I mean, listen, if we ever get to a place where that's the case and that is the Super League,

I think it would be cool to put back teams that were, you know, traditionally in that position. They're only in this position because of circumstance that was out of their control, not because they didn't care about football enough, right? I don't know. I'm not opposed. I'm not opposed. Not opposed at all. And 70 is a nice number.

You know, I know we could really, what if you turned every single group of five champion in their own playoff bracket into a five-year period where they get to be in the in the bigger league. Well, there's an actual reward for that. Promotion and relegation would solve so many issues. I just don't think it's going to happen because it doesn't exist anywhere in American sports. Like, it exists in English football because it always existed in English football. I don't know that you could get people in American sports to go for the people who run it to go for it, even though it would be highly entertaining because what it does.

does, it essentially creates a race at the bottom of your league as well that's just as interesting as the one at the top. Yeah. But I think that the way that you could solve the G6 woes of not being involved in the system is by loosely involving them somehow. It would be great, but I just again, convincing these people to do it. Could you shorten their season? And I know this might be a safety issue, but I'm just spitballing. It's a podcast. Don't shoot me.

if you shorten their season by four weeks or three weeks did an expanded playoff for them and then the winner of the G6 playoff is the 12 seat of the of the big one so that they're still loosely involved and everybody still has a seat of the table like I don't know that maybe that's too many games I didn't go to you know medical school bad a math bad a math not a doctor but is there a way that you could loosely include them still without having to bogged on their schedule I think the promotion and relegation thing would be the way to do it

I think that would be the best way. I just don't know if you could ever make them do it. That's like. Because financially it's a big difference between playing on certain stages. Like television money. And it doesn't match up anymore in terms of numbers. Like because you can't assign one league, one G6 league to one power four league because it doesn't. But it would be great if like for example, the best team in the Mountain West got the last spot in the big 12.

and the last team of the Big 12 had to go to the Mountain West. The best team in the Sunbelt got the last spot in the SEC and the number 16 team in the SEC had to go to the Sunbelt. It doesn't have to be like Premier League where it's three. Yeah. It can just be one. And there can't be like a marketing partnership or a deal that these conferences make amongst each other to swap member institutions.

I don't know. I mean, they can figure it out. The Sunbelt share referees, share officials now. So it's doable. Yeah. I don't know. Do you think that if we got to a place where Nick Saban's thing came true, that people would still watch Macon?

I would. I would. But do you think the regular fan would? Do you think that the loose affiliation of the Mac in the regular system makes people more likely to watch them on Wednesday night? I think the people who watch Macion will still watch Macion. I don't think there's anything forcing them to watch Macon now. So I don't think it would change that much.

Yeah. And as long because I still be good TV. Listen, the championship is the second division in English soccer. They have teams that have huge followings. They get sellout crowds at their games. It's not like they're treated as second-class citizens. Yeah. I wonder if there would be more interest if there was a championship run for them.

So it doesn't feel like they're playing for nothing. It's a good question. And the thing is they'd still be used as a farm system. So I don't think it would change that at all. But they also would be able to get players that can't hack it in the bigger leagues. It's the same deal. Exactly. Or get in trouble or need a fresh start.

So they would still get trickle down too. But like I would watch the G5 national championship game and playoff. Okay, you guys let us know. Hit us up. You know, Friday's dear Andy, dear Ari, if you have questions about this or ideas that you think would work better than this, hit us up. Andy Stapleson3 at gmail.com. Ari.wasterman adon3.com. I'd love to know what you guys think about this too.

I don't have a made a big relationship with your co-host on Yahoo's Football Enquirer, Stephen Godfrey. But I know that he's a fan of Group of Five football. You know him better than I do. And maybe I'll ask him one day if I see him. But if he heard things that were just coming out of my mouth, what do you think he would say? I will pose this question to him on tomorrow show. This will actually make a good segment on tomorrow's show. And I do think I know what he's going to say.

Because five years ago, we said absolutely not. No way these schools need to be in the FBS. They need to be in the same subdivision as the big schools. He would not say that now. I think he's watched those rosters get pillaged over and over again, and he is realistic about it. Like he's kind of where we are like, don't make this a 28-team Super League, please.

Make this as big as you can. But as big as you can might be 70, might be 68. Yeah, yeah. Just because I know they're like I'm going to probably be on a Reddit thread later and everyone's going to call me a fake fan. So like I know I know there's a certain segment of people who are melting right now and I'm not trying to be offensive. But I just am not the type of person that pretends. I'm not a pretender. They are not the same level.

Whether you know how bad you want it or just not. Yeah. They're really not now. And that's it's just the truth. Yeah. So that would make sketch. Schedule's very hard, by the way. And it's also exactly what Nick Saban just said.

If it was the same level, he wouldn't have said this. He just said it himself. So that would make that would make schedules very hard in the power leagues. Like we'd have to adjust our expectations because there would rarely be an undefeated team in that in that scenario. You'd have to, you know, you'd have to accept that eight and fours usually a pretty good season in that, in that kind of format. But I thought it was interesting.

Let's hear from Florida coach John Summoral because I just. After hearing everybody complain about scheduling and SEC coach is saying, I don't want to play a nine game schedule or I'm mad because now I have to play a nine game schedule, but Big Ten schools don't have to schedule a power conference, a team in the non-conference like I do. John Summerall, a little breath of fresh air, the new Florida coach. Here's what he thinks about the nine game SEC schedule. Yeah, we'll put, you know, I wasn't in the room when those conversations were had.

I wasn't in this league yet. we're going to play anybody anywhere anytime. We're going to play. I'm not going to whine and complain about being an SEC head football coach. I like that. Maybe five years in, he'll be willing to whine and complain about it. But I appreciated that outlook on it. He has the it factor.

Well, you're going to see that. So interestingly enough, hearing him talking about his quarterback situation. We talked about Kailen Abor and the Alabama quarterbacks. So John Summerall on the horns of a similar dilemma where he's got two guys. One has played a little bit at a high level, but not a ton. The other one's just been a backup. And so they've got to pick a quarterback.

So they have Aaron Philo, who was Georgia Tech's backup to Haynes King the last two years. So Philo comes with Buster Faulkner, who is Florida's new offensive coordinator, who was Georgia Tech's offensive coordinator. And Philo's played in some fairly high-leverage games, but as a freshman. So Haynes King had some injury stuff, and Philo had to play against Virginia Tech. He played quite a bit in that, remember the win against Miami where Mario wouldn't take a knee? Philo played a significant amount in that game. And they also played against NC State.

So he's played a little bit. Tremel Jones Jr. was the backup to DJ Lagway last year. He took most of the first team reps in the offseason because DJ was hurt. But he was just basically the backup. I mean, he came in in the Kentucky game. You saw him a little bit last year. But you haven't seen either of these guys extensively. The thought was if Philo's following Faulkner, he's probably the guy.

But just from talking to people around the program, you know, they got there. They didn't know much about Tremel Jones Jr. But very quickly, the players on the team said, hey, this guy's a dude. There were other schools sniffing around him that were potentially going to give him a chance to be the starter. And they met him and Summerall and his staff were like, hey, we love this guy. This guy's cool. Let's give him a shot.

And I think you saw in the spring, they both look pretty close. And so now they've got to figure out what they're going to do. Yeah. I love these pure quarterback battles, Andy. But, you know, it's just so much more difficult, I bet, when you are so dead set on the necessity of making a good first impression. right? Like it's not just who's your quarterback, but like Florida fans are going to pile into their opener. And I know that it's not a big huge game against an SEC.

Florida Atlantic. But people want to see a difference immediately from the first quarter, the first drive. So, you know, obviously first impressions aren't necessarily the most important thing in coaching because you've got a pretty long runway. But you don't want to mess up your first quarterback decision going into your new tenure at a place that's dying to win big. again. Well, here's the thing. So we asked him about the quarterback situation. I get the sense that he's not, he may not be making that decision right off the bat. Here's John Summer. I'll talk about that. Your timeline in terms of how you want to make a decision on that. Yeah, I don't have a timeline. You know, I've met with both those guys individually. I'll meet with them before we start

training camp together. I'll meet with the whole room. Just because you start game one doesn't mean you start game 12, I don't have a timeline. My timeline, it may be five minutes for the game before anybody finds out. I mean, I just, to me, and, you know, my first year's head coach at Troy, we used two quarterbacks the entire year, not necessarily by design, because we had to because one on one would get hurt, and one another one would get hurt, and then the guy would come back healthy, and then he wouldn't play good, and then we put the other guy in, and it's like, I don't love the quarterback shuffle deal, but I don't have a blueprint for how it's going to go.

we're going to do what we have to do, try to help position Florida football the wing games. Both guys have been great. They live from the same rack together in the wait room. They push each other, they challenge each other, they support each other, the guys there's back. They're going to fight for each other. The quickest way, and they know this,

the quickest way either one of them could lose the job is to be a bad teammate. And so they're great teammates. They've been awesome with each other. And then the quarterback room's been great. The whole room's been awesome. Did you get a little, like, beat of cold sweat, when he said it might be five minutes before the first game,

like going back and covering Ohio State in 2015. Yeah, were you in the tunnel? I've asked you this 100 times. I just can't remember. Were you in the tunnel? I was on, I was standing on the Virginia Tech sideline when he made that decision. I was across the field. My co-worker Dougway-Marie, I believe, was in the tunnel when he told Cardale he was starting.

It just blows by it. But, you know, I get the sense. And we talked about the Alabama situation where they play East Carolina, and then they have to go play an SEC game at Kentucky Week 2. Florida has a different situation. They play Florida Atlantic first. Then they play Campbell, which is an FCS team, go fighting camels. And then they play at Auburn to open SEC play.

So I do think they have enough where they can experiment a little bit. They can play both of them. And if one of them is clearly better than the other, then it doesn't matter if that's who took the first step in the Florida Atlantic game. That's who you start against Auburn. Yeah, are we back in a place where Florida can take for granted an in-state Florida G6 school? No, I guess not. Too soon?

It wasn't a good idea to do that last year, was it? No, this is a very good point. And Zach Kittley, FAU, very good coach, like him a lot. So, yeah, I should not sleep on that group either. But I do think that it's possible you have a chance to look at both of those guys. get a look at them, especially in the Campbell game, in-game situations, and how they work together with the offensive line, which the offensive line is a little bit of a question mark. They still haven't quite figured out the five-man combo they're going to use. That's probably the biggest question mark on the team other than quarterback.

And so you want to see, like, you know, when they're handed, obviously they're going to hand it to Jaden Ball and he's going to run really well. But they've got some great receivers in this group, the Dallas Wilson, Brunel Brown the third, Eric Singleton, Jr. comes in from Auburn late of Georgia Tech. He played for Buster Falkner at Georgia Tech. So they got some dudes that can really electrify. The question is getting them the ball. The question is blocking for the person who gets in the ball. And I would like to see all of that working together in a game situation

because I feel that would be more valuable. Yeah, I think the hardest part about it because obviously game situation, we talked about it too with Bama is sometimes crucial to knowing what you have. the question that happens once that occurs is when do you cut it off? Like when, when do you decide, okay, we're going with this guy? Auburn. And then if you're, but then also, if you're doing it against other opponents that are overmatched, you might not be able to get a sense of who these guys are.

And then you might need to, I think that like if you, if it bleeds into the season, the thing that happened at Ohio State back in 2015 was anytime things weren't working, which happens all the time in football, really good teams have four or five drives in a row that aren't working. you always have it in the back of your head as a coach. Or maybe we'll go with the other guy. And then that becomes a disease that you can't escape or a virus. So like that's the only slippery slope deal that you have. But you have to like have a clear line of cutoff where this is our guy.

And even if we only have three points in the third quarter, like this is our guy through and through until the end because you can't play the musical chairs game with the quarterback room or things fall apart. Like Andy, you covered a team at Florida that won a national championship with two quarterbacks, right? But like, that was clearly defined role. Yeah. Yeah. This is 06 with Chris Leak and Tim Tebow. They had very clearly defined roles. That's not what we're talking about here. Yeah. And I, and I don't know, uh, has there been a team that has won a national title with two quarterbacks throughout the year that like have where you don't

know who's going in. Like I know that like George Romaine and Stanley Jackson had that deal with Ohio States. That's the closest thing I can think of. The Georgia remain Stanley Jackson thing is closest i can think uh you had to was it uh oh seven lSU with uh with ryan perilu and i'm blank on the other quarterback but they they would switch up a little bit um but you know you go to 2011 and they had they had a problem doing that at ls u like they changed quarterbacks toward the end of the season and it backfired on them in the national title game so yeah i i don't know I don't know that you want that, but I think you just want to know who the guy is

by the time you play Auburn. I think that's the critical piece. And, you know, Summerall said it. Just because you start game one, doesn't mean you're going to start game 12. And he talked about times in his coaching history where he's had to deal with that because his first year at Troy in 2022,

Gunner Watson was his guy, but he got hurt and he had to play Jared Dagi. And then when he got to Tulane, Daryon Mentson was sitting, I think, third or fourth on the depth chart. He was not one. anybody thought was going to play that season and he ends up starting the whole season. And then last year, he had an open competition in the spring at Tulane and then Jake Retzliff

becomes available and he takes him and starts him. So this is a this is not a guy who's terribly precious about any of this stuff. Yeah, yeah. If you're a North Carolina fan, I'm sorry that we had to play these clips the day after our conversation yesterday. Like, that's just rough go of it. But I feel like he he passes all the tests for me. I think he's a football guy through and through and he has the it factor. So we'll see what happens at Florida, but it's going to be fun to watch. He's he's answered the questions very well so far. Again, the only answers that actually matter are the ones on Saturdays in September, October, and November. So we'll see how he does there. But so far,

so good for John Summerall. And this decision, I think, will go a long way toward defining what those Saturdays look like. So he's going to stretch it out. And I, Again, I will not be surprised if we see both of those guys play in the first two games. And then you get a kind of real decision for the Auburn game. Ari, next we've got to talk about new rules for the 2020s season with SEC coordinator officials John McDade. But first, these words from Zen AI. I want to talk about Zen AI.

Zen AI is the home of vibecasting, a new way to capture and share conversations. In the same way vibe coding apps like Lovable and Claude Co-work made it possible for just about anyone, regardless of coding skills to build their big ideas. Zen AI helps anyone to turn a conversation into something worth sharing, a podcast, a reel, a TikTok, no production skills required. At the heart of it, Zen AI is an AI producer. The producer handles the edit from audio cleanup to the creation of share-ready clips. You collaborate with your AI producer conversationally, make audio and video edits just by chatting and plain English. So basically, ZNAAI is paying new vibecasters to create their first vibecast.

You create a sportscast about your favorite team. And with vibecasting, you get paid to do it. So here's how you do it. Zen AI is an invite-only beta right now. So you join the waitlist today and you get a chance at early access. So you go to zen.aI, that's zen.a.i to sign up or you can head to our show notes for the direct link. That's zen.

Dot AI, ZEN.AI. Okay, all right. now it's time for one of my favorite segments of every year where we bring on John McDade, the SEC's coordinator of officials to talk about the new rules in college football. There's a change of the targeting rule. There's a change that really pisses off the special teams coordinators about how you have to line up on punt. And then there is a weird special teams change that John is going to explain to me that I hope we all understand at the end of it. And I really hope we see this play.

but let's talk to John McDade. We are joined by the SEC coordinator officials, John McDade, and so you guys have told us, because we look at the numbers, you guys have told us this is one of your favorite segments every year where John comes in and we talk about all the new on-field playing rules in college football. So I need them to tell me because I don't know if I should believe you or not. No, it's true. It's the craziest thing that.

So I think the first time we did it was my first year at On 3. So it would have been when the media days was in Nashville. Yes. And you and I did a video together and it came out and some people watched it. And then a month later, one of my bosses says, this video that came out a month ago is going crazy. I don't even remember what the rule change was that year. I don't remember it being anything significant. It's funny.

The only thing I remember about that is we had a with the Nashville. sports commission a terrific concert plan for middle of broadway they got washed out by a thunderstorm that's all i remember from that listen we're here in florida and i am i am florida man i'm used to everything being washed out by a thunderstorm that's that's just how life goes but i this is an interesting because i feel like there are a couple really interesting rule changes that the targeting rule which i'm sure you hear more about than anything i thought they did a really good job threading the needle this year. I think maybe the primary reason we hear so much about targeting was addressed by the rule change that we just had.

There are very few rules in the rulebook that as a part of the discipline, as a part of the penalty, we take away player eligibility. Yeah. So what we've done, if you're a first time offender, you no longer are subject if you have, if you foul in the second half to having a first half carry over. Right. So this is Xavier Lucas, who plays corner from Miami, had to miss the first half of the national championship because of that. Yeah. And so he and I believe that was his first offense. So he would have been fine to play the whole game in that situation. So is it first offense,

you're out of the game and it's a 15 yard penalty. But even if it was the third quarter, you're not suspended for the first half of the next game. That is correct. Second offense. Second event, no matter when you fell, you're going to be out for the first half of the next game. Okay. So even if you target it in the first quarter and you missed three and a half, quarters of that game you're going to miss the first half of the of the next right and that's to be a little more punitive because you're trying to because you get head hunting out of it yeah because you just committed the second offense right and that's that was my thing i'm i'm so glad that they did that because you give a little grace to the guy who's just trying to make a tackle the ball carrier moves in a

certain way they wind up colliding head to head and and it it becomes a targeting foul so this is the statistics behind it that largely got the commissioners comfortable with considering. By the way, experimental change. Okay. Experimental rule change. They're going to go back and look at the data at the end of the season to see if they want to extend experiment in an additional season or maybe officially adopted. But what the statistics are, over the last five seasons, we've averaged just under six second time offenders. We haven't had a third or more time offender at all across the five years. So what does that mean?

I don't have the specific number of my fingertips, but all of the targeting files you've seen across all of FBS for the last five seasons, 95 plus percent of them are first time offenders. Which means if we're going back to when the rule was actually implemented, it worked. Like it's taken headhunting out of the game. I think these statistics are evidence of the efficacy of the rule. Subjectively, and you remember the games, the stuff we used to see in the secondary in particular. Oh, yeah. Trying to make a receiver pay. Yeah.

We just don't see that. Yeah. And I'm glad for that because that was something that was going to hurt the sport long term, if that kept going. That's correct. And I now what drove me crazy, though, is you'd have penalties. And the one I remember distinctly as I was covering the Fiesta Bowl when Clemson played Ohio State. This was out the 2019 season. Sean Wade gets hit with one, which it was by the letter.

And I actually saw Rogers Redding, who was the coordinating, you know, national quarterback officials. he was at the game and he explained to me 100% that is by the letter of the law but it was one of those that clearly he had no malicious intent and it changed the game and I hated that and the idea of somebody having to sit another half in an additional especially playoff game just drove me nuts so I'm glad that now if you haven't done that if you just find yourself in that situation at least you're not missing that first half of the nice game agreed so yeah I It is amazing because when you watch those old clips from the 90s, heck, it was just human torpedoes going after the head and neck area of an opponent. Yeah.

And, you know, because you were on the field as a referee when the rule was implemented, right? Yeah, I think the rule was implemented in 2007 or 2008, is my recollection. Absolutely. And it went through various iterations. Yeah. We have a whole segment of our fandom that probably don't realize it wasn't. always a reviewable aspect of the game. Right. We made the call in the field and that was it.

Yeah. When it was first came out, it didn't have the disqualification. We added that later on. We've come a long way and probably the long, we've come a long way in two ways. The players have come a long way because they've changed the behavior. We're also much more consistent. Now, I understand that's controversial for me to say that because all the time we'll make a, what, enforce a targeting call because we'll we confirm in our replay or will overturn it. We don't agree that it did it's targeting. And people don't understand.

It's not the most easy rule to understand. But to us officials, we are very much more consistent than we were. Because you have the indicators and you have the defenseless ball care. Right. Exactly. Yeah. So there are there are written instructions essentially. And I feel like the broadcast does a decent, they try to explain it every time. But it's still hard.

There's some that get it more than others. They're all trying. I'll give a shout out to Greg McElroy. Greg McElroy has a fair amount of our broadcasts in the Southeastern Conference. He really has done a really good job of understanding how to deconstruct the play and figure out the framework of judgment we're using about whether it is or is not in Target. Now, the other one that is a change that if you are a normal college football fan, this did not register at all with you and this was changed, if you are a special teams coach,

you got so mad and oh did we hear it from the special teams coaches and i laughed and laughed because it was one of those that i missed it in their press release when it came out yep and then heard the coaches complaining and i was like okay i got to go back and figure out what they're complaining about and i'm just they're what are we doing so i want you to explain and you i don't and you can't do the entire history less than no no no no i don't even try but to explain the new punt formation rules Pun, just like any play from scrimmage, has the requirement of having 550 through 79 players that are linemen. Ineligible.

To declare themselves as being ineligible. With the evolution of the game, those offensive linemen were no longer, starting in the late 60s going into 70s, we're no longer the ideal athletes to run 45 yards downfield and make an open field tackle. And so we created a numbering exception rule in the early 80s. And it worked pretty darn well for us for about 20, almost 30 years. But what's happened recently, there's been an evolution in the punt game. We start having two and three person shields in front of the kicker that can protect that kicker. We don't need to do it at the line of scrimmage as much as we did. They're not on the line of scrimmage.

The shield, the personal protectors are kind of halfway between the snapper and the punter. We start having spread punt formations, what I call exotic formations. And because we were giving them the numbering exceptions, you didn't have to have 50-79s. You could have others. It was becoming too confusing who the ineligibles were. And we felt things had gotten to the point where not only was it upsetting the advantage, disadvantage balance between the kicking team and the receiving team, it was also confusing the officials. Right. And so what we said is if you're going to use numbering exceptions, it must be in a two-by-two with the snapper.

A guard and a tackle on the left side of the snapper, guard and a tackle on the right side of the snapper. And that's where you're ineligible. And those guys are ineligible. They are ineligible. They're your numbering exceptions. They can't be any other place. And you need to show that in your initial formation. You can't shift into that.

Yeah. Because what you're basically declaring right up front so the receiving team can plainly see, these are the five that are ineligible. Right. Right. Which makes perfect sense. That's the rule on every other play. Because honestly, if you're going to send the pun around the field,

I'm actually surprised more teams didn't do this. Just run everybody into the, into the formation and throw to them. I mean, granted, obviously, if it's fourth and 15, you're probably not, but if that's fourth and three, you could take advantage. I'm surprised more didn't take advantage of that

when they had the chance. You know, I think it's because coaches all have a different risk-reward evaluation. Okay. That's my guess. I've never been in a competition committee meeting in the national football league. I would love to have the opportunity to do it sometime,

but what I hear is they have, have an expression game inside a game. And I think this topic that we're talking about just became too much of a game inside of the game. Yeah. And we, we just want to play football. And I just love the special teams coaches went nuts because this was past. I think most people had finished their spring practice when, when they did it. And so the special teams coaches will talk, well, I can't change a punt formation.

In preseason camp, we can't. Now, I will tell everybody. And if you watched our interview with Brent Key a few months ago, you know that when Brent Key took over as the interim coach at Georgia Tech. He had to change the punt formation that week because they had had four punts blocked under the previous. No point. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So it's doable, guys. But yes, it's common sense. Now, I got one more. There's one more change. And I'm going to need you to explain this to me like I'm a kindergarten. All right. So this is the fair catch place kick. Yes.

Fair catch kick. How does that work? Fair catch kick. So they've had this rule in high school and they've had this rule in the national football league for decades, maybe a century um if you make a fair catch of a punt actually even a free kick or you're awarded a fair catch which means you've single for fair catch and you're interfered with we're going to award you a fair catch you can elect before the ball's made ready for play to to make a fair catch kick which is basically and actually they can see me we're on we're on video here we're going to line up like

it's a kickoff okay the only the only difference is going to be Actually, there's two differences you're going to notice this fan. They're not allowed to use a T. Right. So there needs to be a holder. So the kickoff uses a T. So yeah, you have a holder come out like on a field goal. Bingo.

And then kickoffs are always on a five-yard line. So there's like a hard white line across the field that are restraining lines for the kickers and receivers. We might be on the plus 43. So it's going to look odd from that. And the defense has to be 10 yards away like on the kickoff? Just exactly like it's a kickoff. But soon as the foot hits the leather, it turns in the way. a field goal. So everything happens live ball is field goal rules.

How come Bill Belichick never tried this with the Patriots? He tried everything else. Every other weird special team. So the ball goes to the upright, you're going to get three points. But here's the other thing. Let's say, let's say, um, you're, you really like the strong leg of your kickoff specialist. Yes. And you've got to win at your back. And there's five seconds left in the quarter and you like your chances. And so you're at the minus 47 and you decide on your own 40. This is doable. You miss. Guess where the ball's coming back to?

The minus 47. And guess what? Maybe all five seconds didn't run off the clock and there's only one second left. And you can just throw in the end zone. That's your opponent now has the ball. It's plus 47 with one second. The risk reward of this is amazing, but I love it. This is the reason I haven't been talking about it.

But I was able, I was fortunate to be able to get the data for the National Football League on from the 1970, the NFL, AFL merger to last season, which is 50. seven seasons, I believe, because it's inclusive in the 1970 season. There has been a fair catch kick once every something like 1,046 games and only two successful in that 57. I don't, I honestly don't

remember ever seeing one, and that's why I, but I'm thinking like when Florida State had Sebastian Janakowski, like the ball sounded like a bomb coming off his foot. If you have, if you have a kickoff formation, even with a holder, now if I'm the holder, I'm terrified he's going to kick my hand off.

Yeah. But I take my chances on that. When you throw in FCS, somewhere amongst FCS, someone will try it this year. Yeah. And we'll all get the chance. There is a team with a nuclear-legged kickoff guy because like in college football, it's not 53-man roster. A lot of these teams have a place kick guy, a field goal PAT kicker and a kickoff guy. And the kickoff guy is the one with the big leg.

Yes. So I might not be the most accurate. Right. He's got a big leg. Yes. I can't wait. Listen, special teams coaches, stop bitching about the formation on the punt

and start figuring out how to make this kick happen. Because that would add some drama. To be fair, give me some time. I probably hear from special teams coaches more than any other coach on the course, even more than the head coach because they always have rules questions. Because social teams rules are unique and they're funky. Yeah. Right. And almost without fail, salt of the earth people that I have great conversations with.

We basically took a lot of schematics away from them. Yep. Right. And it hurts. Yeah. And I get it. But it's something we needed to do to take that game with inside the game away. Yeah.

I can't imagine being an official. And for those who don't know, the folks at the SEC were nice enough in 2018 to let me attempt to officiate the Georgia Spring game as a line judge. The things you have to keep track of before a snap for anybody are ridiculous. But the referee and the umpire and the people responsible for determining who's eligible and who's not on a punt where nobody is wearing 50 through 79. My head would explode. Yeah. It became extremely difficult. Yeah.

Okay. Well, special teams coaches, again, your mission, if you choose to accept it, I want to see somebody make one of these kicks. Make it happen. John, thank you so much. Thank you. Great to see you, Annie. Enjoy your 26th season. Yes, sir.

That is John McDade, SEC coordinator of officials, and Ari, that play, you fair catch the ball. And I'm thinking, like, this is an end-to-first-half scenario. And you have a team backed up, and they punt,

and you fair-catch the ball on, like, the 50-yard line, and there's two seconds left, and you bring out, essentially, your kick-off team, but with a holder, and you have your kick-off. kickoff guy try to kick it through the uprights for three points somebody's got to try that please

try that somebody i've always wondered why uh the fuel goal is is the reason why you can't try guys kick fuel uh kickoffs for fuel goal because they can't hold the line the pressure long enough for the wind up uh well they can't you you can't allow them to use the kickoff tea the kickoff tea gives you a significant amount of of lift and okay gets more more yards on the ball so in this particular to play, you're not allowed to use the kickoff tee. You would use a holder like you would on a field goal and the ball is on the ground. The holder is holding the ball and your kickoff guy just blasts it and tries to get it through the upright. If you allowed a kickoff guy to kick the ball off the ground with the usual windup from kicking off,

where you get that long run head start, which you would, which you would do. Like this, this play allows that because the defense has to be 10 yards away. So they would get the same run up to kick the ball. It would be, I would guess, probably 15 to 20 yards less without the T. I think the T adds that much, that much distance. Yeah, but you've seen kickoff specialists kick it through the uprights on kickoff. I have from the 35. I also think it's probably inherently much more difficult to aim when you're running like that.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, you see like the Canadian leagues or the Canadian leagues. or the Canadian League and you know, XFL and Arena Leagues experiment with some different types of rules and there would be kind of some fun tweaks. As John pointed out,

like, that's a rule. You can do that in high school and NFL. They just don't do it in the NFL. He said that the Chargers did it a few years ago and missed it. I don't even remember seeing it. But then the last time before that, I think, was when I was in elementary school. So it's not something

the NFL teams do even though it's available to them. I'm all for it, though. like that'd be crazy. Look, Bill Belichick at North Carolina. Like he did drop kicks when he was with the Patriots. Like he's missed your weird special teams rules. Like you got to do it. Yeah.

I mean, in college football, the thing that's different from college football from the NFL too is that you have so many more games and so many more teams. So the likelihood of grab ass occurring is always higher. And that is a great, great grab-ass rule. Ari. I'm about to go see Ole Miss coach Pete Golding. Texas A&M is here.

Mike Elko this afternoon. Tomorrow morning, Lane Kiffin and LSU, take the stage. We're definitely going to be talking about that an awful lot on tomorrow's show. The circus comes to town. We'll talk to you then.