Andy & Ari On3 - Is a giant College Football Playoff INEVITABLE? ACC and Big 12 back 24-team CFP | Duke Head Coach Manny Diaz Joins

Episode Date: May 13, 2026

On Wednesday, ACC commissioner Jim Phillips voiced his support for the 24 team College Football Playoff. Also on Wednesday, Big 12 Commissioner Brett Yormark echoed the same sentiment Phillips did. Is Greg Sankey the final remaining hope to stop the playoff expansion to 24 teams? Watch here as Andy & Ari dive deep into Jim Phillips’ comments.   (0:00) On Today’s Episode (1:11) Presenting Sponsor (2:30) Intro: Big 12 & ACC voice support (11:08) What Jim Phillips said (17:43) ESPN’s thoughts (28:26) Kickoff times announced - LSU at Ole Miss (33:40) Other kickoff times (40:23) Upset alert in Lexington week 2? (43:52) Previewing Manny Diaz (45:23) Duke Head Coach Manny Diaz Joins (1:03:09) Conclusion: Thanks for watching!   Once Andy & Ari wrap up the College Football Playoff discussion, the fellas need to run through some kickoff times. As a number of traditional rivalry games have been set with kickoff times, the one overarching game on the schedule is LSU traveling to Oxford, Mississippi, in week 3. What other games are you excited for?   Later, Andy & Ari head over to the Alabama message board, where Crimson Tide fans caught wind of a bold prediction from KSR’s Nick Roush.   To close the show, Andy sits down with Duke head coach Manny Diaz from Amelia Island at the ACC Spring meetings. Winning the ACC Championship this past season, Diaz discusses his QB leaving, what he’s learned at Duke, and how to continue being competitive in this age of college football. Can Duke win the ACC again?   Thanks for watching!   Send your questions to: [e-mail] [e-mail]   Our show is also presented by BetMGM!   If you haven’t signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code CFB and you will get up to a $1500 First Bet Offer on your first wager with BetMGM! Here’s how it works:   1. Download the BetMGM app and sign-up using bonus code CFB. 2. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game. 3. You will receive up to $1500 in bonus bets if your bet loses! Just make sure you use bonus code CFB when you sign up!   Make this college football season one for the history books. Make it legendary.   See BetMGM.com for Terms. 21+ only. This promotional offer is not available in DC, Mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET (Available in the US) . 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), 1-800-327-5050 (MA), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR). First Bet Offer for new customers only (if applicable). Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel   Watch our show on YouTube! https://youtu.be/T1MAcM3IaM0   Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari Wasserman Producer: River Bailey   Interested in partnering with the show? Email [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On today is Andy and RN3 presented by BetMGM. The ACC comes out on the record in favor of a 24 team playoff. This is the first major conference outside the Big 10, which proposed it, to say that they are now for it. Also, the Big 12 has joined the chorus. I'm at ACC Spring meetings. Talk to ACC commissioner Jim Phillips. We'll explain why they have flipped to 24. Also, it is a megaboard Wednesday.

and you are all over the message boards talking about kickoff times and what happens early in the season, late in the season. We've got some very interesting early game kickoff times. We got rivalry games all throughout Black Friday, including one that hasn't been on Black Friday very much. A lot going on with kickoff times. Plus, Duke coach Mani Diaz, the coach of the defending ACC champs, talks defending that championship, losing his quarterback. on the last day of the transfer portal and scrambling to get a new quarterback. We got it all on Andy and Ari on three presented by BetMGM. We are presented by BetMGM.

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Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in seven days in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Welcome to Andy and Ari on 3 presented by BetMGM. And we knew this was coming at some point, Ari. But now they've said it out loud. The ACC has offered its support to the 2014 playoff, which is a flip from the previous support of a 16 team playoff. So the ACC has abandoned the SEC. The Big 12 also has Brett Yormark, the Big 12 commissioner,

to our Brett McMurphy at On 3, saying that they're in favor of 2014 playoff as well. Jim Phillips gave his reasons here in Amelia Island, Florida at the ACC meetings. And yeah, the thing we keep trying to tell everybody to avoid feels

ever more inevitable, Ari. The college football playoff is a really, really amazing restaurant and everybody wants to go there. But there's only 12 tables there, so it's impossible to get a reservation. They announce... So we're going to turn it out to a cheesecake factory,

is what you're saying. they announced that the playoff is going to expand by 50%. The restaurant's going to expand by 50%. The people who can't get a reservation are obviously the ones that are going to want to go the most, right? Mm-hmm. Yep. So, like, I mean, I... They're expanding it by 100% if they do this.

100%, not 50%. Sorry. Bad at math. Yeah. They're doubling it. How's that? We're on brand, though. Andy, I'm trying to understand how significant this is to publicly

support it when we knew that they privately supported it? I think saying it out loud means something different. And it was coming. We knew it was coming. It was a matter of time. The ACC meetings were this week. The Big 12 they meet in the next few weeks. The SEC meets in two weeks. The Big Ten meets next week. We know what the Big Ten wants because they're the ones who

propose this. Now you have three of the power conferences in line with one another. We, We know the group of six conferences support this. We know Notre Dame supports this. So that really just leaves the SEC on an island. And I'll be destined in a couple weeks. And I don't think this is going to make Greg Sankey at the SEC suddenly flip and say, oh, okay, fine, 24 is fine. I think they're going to fight this.

And, you know, it's really interesting because we keep talking about this. And I don't know about you. most of the listeners, viewers I interact with do not want this. It's not like when they went from 4 to 12, where it was a much more mixed bag. And I'd say the majority favored making it bigger. Some people wanted 8, but they wanted it bigger than 4. There is not a lot of support for this. And like even people say, you know, they'll say, okay, maybe 16, which by the way, the SEC support 16.

So it's getting bigger one way or another. I don't think most people would support 16. I think people like the 12 and have enjoyed the 12, the two years they've gotten it. And I just, but we'll hear from Jim Phillips about why he feels like this is necessary. And I mean, I get the sense that the people who want it, the 10% that I would estimate want it are all very loud people from teams that never go. Yes. I would agree with that. Now, my question is if you're a team that doesn't go,

are you willing to get behind it if your team will have a chance? I think that might increase the number, but I don't know if it would. I don't know if I'm trying to think of the fan. What's the right fan base here? Is it Iowa? Iowa fans. BYU,

you'd be in. Like, BYU would have been in the last two years in a 24. Iowa would have been in last year. Does this make you want this because it would help your team, or do you feel like the overall product would be better if it stays at 12 and your team just tries to get into the 12? I'm asking that completely earnestly. I don't know your answer, and I actually do want to hear your answers on this. Yeah. Well, I've interacted with a lot of BYU fans in the past week or so online because I wrote a column from the playoff meetings here.

and we've expressed our opinions about the CFP on the show and they've been seeing the clips on Twitter. And I think that we have to be honest with ourselves too. If you're a BYU fan and your team finishes with two losses last year, both of which came to the same team that made the CFP and the second loss came in the Big 12 championship game and your strength of record was better than Alabama's, you feel, and maybe rightfully so,

that your team is the victim of brand bias. And the only way that you will ever overcome brand bias is by knocking the door down in a field that includes you. And I think that that is an okay thing to think. And I certainly understand that if you just lived through what you just live through, then your opinion is obviously going to be shaped by what literally just happened to you. But my viewpoint of it is that BYU was also on a field four quarters away from leaving the committee no doubt.

They got blown off the field. And if I were a BYU, I think I would be able to separate, well, what was best for BYU in 2025 and what's best for college football moving forward? And they're two very different things. So if you are a team or a fan of a team that is constantly ranked in between 14 and 20,

and you're not quite great, but you're still a very good. good team. BYU was an excellent team last year, maybe not an elite one, but an excellent one, that you would want the threshold to come down to a place that include your favorite team. Like, I understand that thought process. But I think that there is a fundamental difference between what is best for BYU and what is best for the entire sport as a whole. And those are sometimes very different. How many programs are in the BYU, Iowa club, maybe 10? So like Tennessee, South Carolina, who else yeah yeah Tennessee South Carolina I mean I mean Wisconsin they made it last

yeah yeah I'm just trying to think a team that typically finishes number 19 like year over year but yeah here's the other thing that that kind of irks me about the viewpoint too two two things one it goes back to the same thing that I was against when we were arguing against the expansion to 12 which is BYU fans I think that you should devote your energy to demanding that your team get better or good enough to beat Texas Tech because I don't know that making the playoff last year. I mean, I think we had unequivocal proof of what BYU was capable of at the highest level last year. They were a very good team. They were better than most teams in the Big 12.

But when they faced a team that was as talented and deep as Texas Tech, they could not even stay on the same field as them twice. It also hurts them that the Texas Tech got shelled by Oregon. Like if Texas Tech had gone to the final, I think their argument is strengthened. And it doesn't help either to make the playoff as the 18 or the 14 seed and then get your ass kicked in the first. And now maybe inclusion feels good. But here's the thing that really bugs me, Andy. It's that we are now literally not even a year removed from the worst program in college football history winning the national title. We have seen teams like Cincinnati.

We have seen teams like Washington make the 14 field. It's not impossible, especially now. We are very, very soon still into the evolution, into the NIL transfer portal era. And just because BYU was on the fringe of making it and feels unjustifiably left out, that doesn't mean that they can't assemble a team that's good enough to be as good as Texas Tech sometime in the near future in the 12 team system. So like, I just, I think that people are so fixated on what has happened just now or what has happened to them, their favorite team in the last two or three years that they are missing the bigger picture,

which is A, the 12 team system works great. I think you are looking at this like fans are a monolith. And look, I agree with you. I think you should stay at 12. Fans have no responsibility to care about what's good for the whole of the game. They are going to naturally want what's best for their team. Now, it's interesting. So Jim Phillips took something we say a ton on the show

and flipped it on its ear. And I found that very interesting. So here is Jim Phillips talking about throwing support behind 24. When you're leaving national championship contending teams in university schools out of the playoff, you don't have the right number. We live through it. We suffered through it with Florida State when the field was four. And I know other schools have suffered for it.

And I've said this, you know, very directly. Notre Dame was a CFP worthy team this year. They just were. And you saw what happened to the last team that got invited with Miami and the first team out. So those teams looked alike all year and the differential that we felt was head to head. But everybody felt that those two universities and schools were similar. So what, okay, Florida State is a different case. you had an undefeated team that was left out of a 14 playoff.

You do have the wrong number when you have undefeated power conference champions being left out. But I would argue and have argued many times in the show that if you have a team that can do damage in the playoff that is in danger of being left out because they lost a couple games, you have the right number. Because that means there is an element of danger in the regular season that you take away when you go to 24 and 24. in this era of college football. And already said this many times, that could change over the next few years, but it hasn't changed yet.

The teams, you know, 16 through 24, 15 through 24, 14 through 24, they can't win the national title right now. That may change. If that changes, then go bigger. What are you doing directly after this again? You have a hard out here at noon. What are you doing? Are you driving?

I'm driving home to pick up my daughter from school. Okay. Can I have that what you just? said. You may have it. Yes, absolutely. It's all yours. I agree with you 100%. I think it's right. Well, I think it's great. I think it's great. We've talked about it on the show a lot. I think it was your original idea, but you have morphed it into my idea. So now I own it. Thank you. Oh, good. Okay. But no, Andy, I agree with you. I really truly agree with you. And I do think

that I would be amenable to discussing 24 in 2034 if it gets to the point where that's no longer true or where teams where there's nine teams that were as good as Notre Dame last year who aren't you know in terms of maybe not as good as Notre Dame was last year but nine teams that were as close to as good as the top teams in the country as Notre Dame was last year while being left out so I mean there is this thing it does feel to me that 90% of the fans if I had to guess would prefer to stay at 12 um maybe It's 80. I don't know. It does seem to me that the preference. I don't know. It's quite that many, but it does seem to be the majority.

It seems to be the majority. Here's the thing. And this is why we don't get a vote. We're not spending any money on this stuff. This is Phillips further trying to reinforce this argument. And this is where I am sympathetic to the argument. I don't agree with it. I am sympathetic to it. But listen to this.

So my point is that that's rationale for it. The other rationale I would just say to you is there is so much investment going on in the sport of football and in college athletics. And I'm not necessarily concerned about schools that have traditionally found their way to the college football. playoff. I'm talking about those that would have a chance that right now don't have a chance to get into that playoff and have a reasonable chance to win it. And I think that's about access. And if you're going to ask presidents and chancellors and boards to continue to invest in their football programs, it's really important that they have hope, that they have an opportunity at the beginning of the season to get into the playoff.

If you're going to make us spend all this money on players, if you're going to make us hit up our donors for more money to give players, if you're going to make us jump through the CSC hoops for the paperwork to pay the players, you better give us hope that we get some ROI on this thing, some tangible ROI. That's what he's saying there. That's what that is. That is, I got schools up my bucket telling me, they better get some ROI out of all this money they're spending.

You know, it's something. The thing that you said before the clip, Andy, that I think is important is sympathy or sympathizing. Those are a different words. I sympathize with the ACC and the Big 12's positions on this because I understand where they are on the Pantheon and the sport. And of course, Jim Phillips and Brett Yormark are going to want this. What they wouldn't.

And I give them a lot of credit, too, for not agreeing. to it with the automatic births that gave them less. They could have been like, okay, well, we get more births and we'll just do 24 and get two instead of the fact that it's straight-seated now, they dug their heels in the ground, they got

an expanded field that will include more of their teams without ever admitting that they were second-class citizens. Like, I think they've done a remarkable job in their duties. So can I actually compliment them by saying, hey, your responsibility is the ACC and the Big 12, and you've done a

great job while also hating the process of what it might turn into because that's kind of where I'm at. Well, and it feels like everybody's dividing their loyalties and people that some people didn't like now they have to support and some people loved other people and now they have to disagree with them in terms of however you feel on this particular issue. So a lot of people out there, not fans of ESPN, not fans of what ESPN has done to the sport. well, get ready because if you're someone who wants to say at 12, you need to be in bed with the SPN.

Because guess who doesn't want to go past 12 and maybe could go to 16, but really doesn't want to do that either. Is it the television network that has the monopoly on the viewership of it? Yes, now, they have their reasons. So it's interesting because Phillips got asked about this today. And remember, ESPN owns the ACC's rights, lock, stock, and barrel. So they are tied at the hip, the ACC and ESPN, but they are at odds on this. ESPN's been pretty clear with all of us that they'd like it to stay at 12, maybe 14, but no higher than 16. And so that is, you know, that's important.

They're our partner. They're a partner with the CFP. obviously they're our full partner here as it relates to the ACC. And so we'll continue to talk with them as it relates to the CFP piece of it. Now before we start thinking this is a noble reason, Ari, let's explain why ESPN does not want to go past 12 and could do 14 and probably could do as many as 16. So ESPN currently the exclusive rights holder to the college football playoff. This is the second contract they've signed with them this new contract actually starts this season and runs for six seasons they have exclusive rights to up to a 14 team field so as long as it doesn't expand past 14

they definitely own the rights of the game now i would argue ri if it expands to 16 the couple of extra games that you could then sell on the open market probably not worth it to bid on for anybody else so ESPN would just buy those and be done with it. But if it goes to 24, then you have a significant number of games that are sold on the Oakman market that I would bet Fox would scoop up or NBC or CBS or somebody else would scoop those games up because they want to be a part of this. And what television network owns the Big Tens rights? That would be Fox. And who is the bus driver of this idea? Oh, that would be Fox. Got it. Yep.

So there you go. Yes, Tony Petiti is the commissioner of Big Ten, but it is very much lockstep. You can hear the, probably the words of the Eric Shanks and Jordan Byzant who run Fox Sports. You can hear them when he talks. Do you think that they type the speeches on clown talks? I don't think they, I just think they're all intelligent people. They have, you know, conversations.

It's a little bit like inception. They've intercepted him. But, I mean, honestly, if on three could start, airing playoff games, I would like it to expand the 3-2, right? Hey, listen, venture venture capital companies, you want to,

listen, I don't, I don't want to speak for Shannon Terry, but if we wanted to do a round of funding where we buy some playoff rights, let's go. I think, I think he would be for the CFP. I think he would be for that.

No? Do you think they'd let us be sideline reporters? I think so. I mean, they would have no choice. Could we call the games? Do you want to be in the booth around the sideline? And that's, I don't know. I haven't decided yet. Booth for the first three quarters,

sideline for the fourth quarter. I like it. I like it. Okay. So, again, not speaking for our boss, Shannon Terry, but if somebody wants to do a round of VC funding, just saying,

we could buy some playoff rights if they go to 24. Okay. So how much of a shot does Greg Sanky have to hold this off? I don't think it's zero. But I do think it's a problem because Greg Sanky and the SEC usually, usually move in lockstep as well. Usually Greg Sanky and all his constituent, coaches, athletic directors, presidents are all on board with everything together. They are definitely not.

The coaches are all for 24. We've explained the reasons why coaches love 24. Several ADs are for 24. There are ADs who want conference championship games eliminated. The quickest way to eliminate conference championship games can go to 2014 playoff. So there is a lot of dissension that is not something we're used to. seeing in the SEC. So Greg Sankey will have to work, you know,

he will have to do his best job of consensus building to get people back on board with what he was. Now, what he has, the advantage he has that wasn't available to previous SEC Commissioner, Mike Sly, wasn't available to previous other commissioners of other leagues. Before this contract with the CFP, all the leagues has. voting rights essentially they changed it because the the big 10 in the SEC essentially rested control from everybody else the big 10 in the SEC have the only votes that matter so as long as Greg Sankey holds one of the 10 big 10 matter yeah

big 10 yes I'm sorry big 10 the big 10 in the SEC hold the two votes that matter so as long as as Greg Sankey holds one of the two votes that matter he can hold this thing up yeah so also it was like funny because you're like at the the beginning of this segment here, we were talking about who are the teams that are usually in the Iowa, BYU category. I don't know, the bottom half of the SEC. Like, of course they think that. Like, of course Tennessee wants that. Of course A&M wants that. Florida right now. Oklahoma should want that. Missouri should want that. Yeah. You know, it's, I remember it was a talking point in the 12 team era or in the 4-team era when we were going to 12 that Ohio State.

and Georgia and Alabama may never play important regular season games again. Funny enough, Alabama has already been left out of the 12-team playoff, so that turned out to be wrong. But if you expand to 24, are all the usual suspects, the Oregon's, the Ohio states, the Alabama, Georgia's, Texas is now, ever going to play a meaningful regular season game again? Yes, because they won't always. be in the top 12. I think once you get to where you're not in the 12,

then you are in danger of being left out. You're in danger. Because one, you're flawed enough to lose enough to be left out because you lost four or five games. But two, you could lose it, you know, have a tightly contested game. Or again, as we've talked about, the sport could compress a little more,

could flatten a little more. And they're just that their advantages are not what they used to be. So, yeah, I mean, if they get lucky again. But like Ohio State's the best example of this. What Ohio State, which typically is in the top five, would they play a lot of meaningful regular season games? Probably not. Probably not.

If they, if they're a perennial top five team and they are, you know, 10 and two going, or they, let's say they're, they win their first eight games. They win seven of their first eight games. Like, they'll go into the end of the regular season, feeling very confident that they're going to win enough games to make the playoff. So I don't know. It's,

it's, I'm trying to do trivia right now. Not going to be that much fun, I think, because you, you will see dilution in the regular season at the end of the season. I think 12 brought enough teams up, like made enough more games relevant,

that it, it counteracted losing the bomb games, like the kick six, and stuff like that. I don't know that this makes enough more games relevant to counteract the effect of what you lose at the top. Do you know the last time Ohio State finished outside of the top 25? I have no idea.

Oh, was it 2011? It was 2011 and that was a year where all their good players were suspended because of the scandal. Do you know the time before that? The 70s? It was the early 80s. Okay. So like, I don't know. I'm sure if you did that with with Alabama.

I mean, I know they had some down years. This is us talking about Tiffany Brands. This is where I wonder, and you actually got me thinking about this to start of the show, and maybe we're handling this all wrong. What do Missouri fans think about this? What a BYU fans think about this?

What do Texas Tech fans think about this? What do Michigan State fans think about this? What do Wisconsin fans think about this? Because we keep talking about Ohio. state and Alabama, and obviously those are big fan bases and those are big names in college football, but do their fans experiences matter more than other fans' experiences? No, absolutely not. And I think that it's probably a good thing if Missouri fans and BYU fans and Wisconsin fans and everybody are happy too. The problem is that the entire point

of sports is to compete to be great. Like, it's the reason they play. You don't. You don't. You don't want to just be handed the participation trophy. You want to earn the chance to play in the playoff and play for the national title. You know what I think is cool? Washington fans were happy when they won the Pact 12 and went to the playoff. They're probably in that same bucket. Twice in the 14-air. Yeah.

They're in that bucket of teams that would be right now with with Mizzou and BYU. Yeah. I think that like my daughter would be happy if I gave her a lollipop every single time she walked through the door. But like, I don't think that that's a net positive for my daughter. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, yes, I'll be happier because you made it easier and then ruined the entire point of sports, which is to earn something. Like, I don't know. I'm with you, Ari.

I don't know that we're going to win this one, but I'm with you. I say we keep fighting. We'll get everybody to work on the telethon. I talked to find a bomb about it. He's in. I said, what if Sankey flips to 24? You still in? He's where's he is.

Okay. So, yeah, we'll see. Ari, it is Mega Board Wednesday. We do have some message board posts to address. One, and look, if you're on the On 3 network, every message board you hit has been buzzing about the announcements that are coming out this week. I think a lot of it, the NFL does their schedule this week, and so the colleges don't want to be left out here.

So you've got a lot of games being announced, a lot of kickoff times being announced. So you've got the first two game day locations being announced. And so we go to the inside Texas members-only message board T-Hurt 512 with ESPN's college game. We officially coming to Austin, week two, for the Ohio State game. That is a 730 Eastern kickoff on ABC week two. So that be September 12th. Week 1, September 5th, game day is going to Clemson at LSU for Elaine Kiffin's debut as LSU's coach. and that game obviously is a primetime game.

Also in primetime, RE, LSU at Ole Miss, week three. That was announced. And the Oxford Police Department had a pretty funny tweet about that. Yes. They're going to be preparing for a wild night. Can you send in the National Guard for that one? I'm trying to think, Andy, the only other sporting event where I wonder if safety of the visiting team was an issue was when the Miami Heat returned to Cleveland when LeBron came back.

Yeah. Like, do you think that this is the most- I think they're way closer in basketball? Yeah, I just mean like the bus on the outside and all those different things. Like, do you think of the most- has had a golf ball and a mustard bottle thrown at him at the place where he worked before? It wasn't because he was Lane Kiffin and he was back at Tennessee. Fans were mad about a call.

But it's not like this has a. happened before for him. You have your regular rivalry games. You have your Iron Bowl. You have Oklahoma, Texas, Ohio State, Michigan. But in terms of pure contention, contentiousness, can you think of a game like this in the recent? I'm having a hard time coming up with a precedent for what we're about to get here on September 19th, especially after this week. I can't think of one. I think that LeBron going back to Cleveland is a good example. I'm trying to think of other examples in sports, there have not been that

separations that were that acrimonious. Nick Sabin coming back to LSU as Alabama's coach for the first time, but he went to the dolphins in between. It wasn't like he went straight from LSU to Alabama. So I think that dulled the response a little bit. I read Wilson Alexander's Lane Kiffin piece on On 3, and if you haven't, I suggest doing it.

It was awesome. But Lane Kiffin had a quote in there that said, I wish the people at Ole Miss would remember our time together as a great six-year run rather than a messy divorce. And I'm like, you don't get to say that if you banged somebody else before you got divorced. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just like that would be like, that would be like if my wife cheated on me and we got divorced. And she's like, but just remember all the good times. Like forget the inciting incident that caused the divorce.

No, no, it doesn't work like that. Yeah. The incident happened. Like you can't. You can't. If you would have left after the season, I don't even think. It's just like the circumstance. And also who Lane is.

It's, yeah, he played into it. It's always going to be acrimonious. So, so. You've got that. Yeah, but the fact that it's a night game, I think is a net positive for us. It's going to be great. Ajax diner at noon, campus walk. Oh, oh my.

You know, we're going to have a road. I don't know if you've, like, acknowledged this. I think you have. Mm-hmm. It's going to be quite the internal fight. at the On-3 headquarters of who gets to go. I said I don't even need to be in the stadium. I think you and I should hit the road that week.

I think we should spend Monday and Tuesday in Baton Rouge and then drive to Oxford and then just move to Oxford for the rest of the week. And if we don't merit a credential, if we're not high enough on the on-three totem pole to get a credential, I'm just going to hang out with the tailgators. Because it's LSU and Ole Miss fans. It's the best tailgators in the world. It is elite level tailgating.

Yeah. You're tailgating. I kind of would rather hang with them. We do a podcast. The view on Saturday night does not have to be a football field. You're right. We could just be in the grove. I like this idea.

Okay. Let's not. Fully on board. Let's not completely give away our chances of going to the game because I still think going to the game is the best thing. but if not if we could still go that would be cool because i would like to go i'm in i'm in i count me in ben garrett by the way from from oam spirit has offered the use of his guest room i don't think he realizes that we'd bring the whole crew yeah well i'll share a bed with people hanging hanging out of his windows but other games uh one interesting kickoff now the egg bowl

has traditionally been played on Thanksgiving or, you know, on Black Friday. It will be a Black Friday game again. It'll be noon Eastern, 11 a.m. local time on Black Friday. The Florida, Florida State game, which has been played on Black Friday in Tallahassee, will also be played on Black Friday. Now, it is in Tallahassee again this year. So it's an ACC game this year. But that will be the 330.

Eastern time, Black Friday game. And then the Texas and Texas A&M game will be the prime time, Black Friday game on ABC. So that's going to be a fun day. Like we were in Detroit at the MGM Casino, and we were just hanging in the sports book on Black Friday last year and then covered Michigan, Ohio State the next day. That was a wonderful experience.

Like that, look at this lineup on Black Friday. Plus, you're going to have Nebraska, Iowa, on that day as well. Like, this is going to be so much fun. You know, Ohio state fans are grinding their teeth because they have to got to go play at night

when Texas got to play them at noon last year, though, right? Yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But playing at night's great. I want to go to that game.

You know, I've never been to Texas for a game yet. They've done a great job, I would say, in the last 10 years of improving the game day atmosphere. They were very much known as a wine and cheese crowd through the years. And I would say,

really since Chris, Connie came as AD and some of his lieutenants have done a really great job working on game day operations and how they handle everything. It has become a much more fun place for a game and it has become a much more raucous atmosphere if you're the road team. And so I think they are going to be walking into a pretty loud situation. I'm really looking forward to hopefully going to that. Obviously, we should probably book hotel rooms just to save them for now because Austin's

kind of a pricey place to stay but you know we can also go to waco too on a given night on a given night yes oh yeah look waco temple we got places all up and down in i 35 don't worry if there's a bucky's nearby i know i know where it is so and the the clutchy places i do oh the check stop slova checks the check stop sucked for us because the line was too long that was so we have then we went to the check stop oh the check stop we got but slova check line was out the out the door, but that was the day of the game. Because it was, it was, yeah. And it was also close to Christmas.

The closer you get to Christmas, the harder it is to get into slow-check. So this is, uh, this is going to be a fun season. I, I still end and not enamored of week one. And we'll, we'll complain more about week one as we get closer to it. The games are not great. I want one, one-time, one-time, kick-off decision. I disagree with. And we've talked about maybe going to this game and we'll see if we end up doing it.

But Ole Miss and Louisville opening the season in Nashville. That game is going to be a 730 Eastern kick on Sunday night of week one. Now, why am I complaining about that? Because Notre Dame, Wisconsin is also that same time on NBC on that Sunday night. And here's the thing. If you haven't looked the week one schedule yet, revert your eyes. It sucks. It's really bad.

Somebody, and by somebody I mean everyone really, one really screwed up making this schedule because we have on the screen the best games of week one. And the thing is, this is pretty much it. It is, it is Clemson at LSU, which is a great one.

It's Baylor Auburn in Atlanta. It's Notre Dame, Wisconsin at Lambeau Field. It is Louisville Ole Miss in Nashville. And then on Labor Day, SMU at Florida State, because there's always an ACC game on Labor Day night. That is it pretty much, which means we'll probably get a,

crazy upset because the point spreads are going to be out of sight on all the other games. But like even these aren't because I think LSU is going to be fairly heavily favored against Clemson. Notre Dame is going to be very heavily favorite against Wisconsin. The other ones could be competitive. This slate. I think favored over Florida State pretty good. I think I can sink my teeth into this.

LSU, Clemson is Davos Sweeney's. Do or Die season versus Lane Kiffin's first season. BYU Auburn is first look at goalish and first look at DJ Liveway. That's two games on Saturday. So your first Saturday is those two games. Yeah. Those are the really are not even on Saturday. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You guys messed up. Like some of the great games that are being played week three, you should have put them in week one. Because we'll have situations in week three where you're going to miss stuff. because you're watching one great game and there's like two other great games on at the same time. You don't, and that's why I'm saying,

you don't need to be playing Louisville, Ole Miss and Notre Dame, Wisconsin at the same time, guys. I realize two different networks making two different decisions, but come on, think of us, the viewers. Yeah. Tell us more about how we should be in, conference games. And, yeah, exactly.

Oh, by the way, update on Florida State, Georgia. we talked about this last week. They canceled the home and home, and they're like, we're going to try to maybe do a neutral site game. They're going to make so much money off this neutral site game, R.E. That's why they canceled the home and home. There's apparently six different cities bidding

for the Florida State Georgia neutral site game. They're going to make more money playing the one than if they'd played the two. That's why they're doing this. So I don't like it. But at this point, my thing is if you're going to play, neutral site game if you're going to if it if it causes you to schedule those games that you would not have otherwise scheduled those non-conference games

then okay fine play the games i just want you to play the games i'm less concerned where you play them and more concerned at this point that you play them is that is that is that fair i'm i think that's a fair thing just play the games yeah yeah we'll live with it it's if it's in alana you know orlando Nashville, whatever. You know, and you know I'm a weird like neutral play game, so I'm okay with it. Yeah. Yeah.

One more from the Mega Board before we get to Mani Diaz and the defending ACC champion Duke Blue Devils. And this is just fun. This is the type of off-season shenanigans I can definitely get down for. So, BAM online, our BAMA site, the BOL roundtable.

So Jason K-08 found this on elsewhere on the on three network so kentucky sports radio ksr or kentucky site they're obviously well currently melting down over the basketball roster but they're also very excited about will sign's first year's kentucky's football coach r e alabama plays at kentucky in week two our man nick roush who writes for ksr has predicted a kentucky victory over the crimson tied. Nobody. And the Alabama fans are, are amused for sure. Nobody quite, you know, likes to incite attention from opposing fan bases more than our

friend Nick. Yes, Nick is, Nick is the one who when, when Nico Iamaliava played at Tennessee, called him the volleyball player who can't hit a goal ball. Yes. Which Tennessee fans now agree with, but they didn't at the time. So, yes, I don't like to search some stuff up, but the Alabama fans, of course, the first response, the one, the only Bama bro, in football, question mark. It's great. And look, I'm very excited about Will Sine's first season at Kentucky, too.

I think he did a good job in the portal. I am certainly not ready to go out on a limb like this. It's also not the most absurd thing I've ever heard. well okay so so blake byler in the in the on the thread says certainly bold would there be a more surprising result in the SEC next year and and to which i'd say i think you know mississippi state beating one of the the big shots of the league probably would be more surprising yeah and we don't know what if we don't know how good they're going to be yeah yeah and and i think like mississippi state's quarterback i i they were much better last year than they were in jeff levy's first year because they didn't invest it quite a bit more more. So I don't, I think what we, and maybe this is a topic for another day as we get deeper into the offseason, Ari. I don't, we may have to reframe our expectations in the SEC because I don't know that what we, what we would have thought would be surprising, because the more I think about this, like with Kentucky and Alabama, like if, if Alabama is significantly better than they were if, you know, remember, they fire their office of line coach, tight end coach, revant their office of line. If all that got fixed, they're going to go in there and roll. But if it's about the same and Will Stein did a very good job in the portal and did a good job installing everything,

then it could be really interesting way to. That's the beauty of this, of all of this is we don't know what the hell is going to happen. I am fairly certain Nick's going to be wrong on this, but I admire his bravado. Yeah, he has bravado. This is the sort of crap that you got to throw against the wall in May. because September's here sooner than you know it. I don't know. I don't think it's insane.

I agree. I think Alabama will win, but I don't think it's an insane thing to think could happen. It's not completely insane. It is not. Now, possibly an insane statement I could have made it to the beginning of last season. Five lost Duke will win the ACC title.

And you'd have been like, no, but that is exactly what happened. the Duke Blue Devils did struggle in parts of the regular season, but won the games that mattered for them in the ACC and then beat Virginia-A-C title game. I got to tell you, Ari, Manny Diaz, still pissed they didn't make the playoff. He said on our show, the week of the game,

he's like, they're not leaving the ACC champ out. They did. He still believes they would have been a much better opening round opponent for Oregon than James Madison. He might not be wrong. But unfortunately, the way it worked last year, that couldn't happen. The way the playoff is actually designed this year, the ACC is guaranteed a spot. So Duke would have gotten in.

So now he's got, but he's got, he's got a new team. And that team got even newer on the last day of the transfer portal cycle because Dary and Mentsa, their starting quarterback, who they had signed to a two-year deal reportedly for $8 billion over two years or $4 million a year, he decides he's going to Miami. And then that leaves them scrambling. So Manny's been working on that, but I think you'll be surprised when you hear from Manny how he talks about that situation. Here is Duke Coach Mani Diaz. Join by the head coach the defending ACC champions, Mani Diaz. Does that get old?

No, no. Okay. You can say that again if you want to. Yeah. It's amazing to me, but we had you on the week of the ACC championship game. And that was, it was such a strange situation because you guys, you didn't know until that Saturday that you were going to be playing it. Late late that night. Yeah, it all had to come down to what a kick at Cal.

ACC football after dark. That's right. So what changes, you know, in terms of perception, in terms of when you're talking to portal players and talking to recruits, when you can have a conference title that you just won? Right. Well, I think the first perception is the perception inside the building, right? Now it's proof of concept. You know, you can do it. Yeah. I think at that point, recruits, you know, transfers. We can now sell that it is a place if you get the high academics, you get the life after full. football, but you can compete for championships and win championships. And not a lot of places can say that in the country. Well, and I'm curious about the high academic part of it's interesting to me because

it feels like in this environment where a lot of guys, they're signing with a school, and they may be there a year before they leave. But if you sign with a Duke or you sign with a Notre Dame or you sign with a Northwestern, that type of school, I would imagine that most of the population that's interested in your school is also interested in giving a degree from your school. So can you, does that help you with maybe developmental positions a little better? Absolutely. I think you're exactly spot on.

And not just development, but just a retention, right? Most parents who drop their sons off at Duke want to see them graduate at Duke. And so, and then also I think it helps us with team cohesion because they're there for a reason. There's probably something they have in common. Yeah. Other than just being there on a football contract. So I think the new normal, I do think benefits Duke football. And it's strange because it's that's always been viewed as, oh, that's, that's the hard part.

That's the impediment to being competitive at Duke. And now you've got somewhat of an advantage, but you've taken advantage of it too, it seems like. Yeah. And I think everybody can recognize that college ball is just very different than it was 10 years ago, very different than 20 years ago. And you'd been in a calm and woke up and find out Indiana is a national champion the same year that Duke wins the ACC and Texas Tech wins a big 12, right? It just, but here we are. Yeah. And this has been obviously a strange offseason for you.

I saw you at the coaches convention, which was when the portal was still open. And then a few days later, you find out that Darien is leaving for Miami. And then you guys had to snap into action. And you bring in Walker Eaget from San Jose State. How did that process work? Because, I mean, you didn't have much time to identify a player. Well, there wasn't much time. And the store had kind of been picked clean.

Yeah. Right. And Walker really would have been long gone, but he had an eligibility issue. And so he had to win a year back of eligibility. If he had that year, in my estimation, he had been, you know, he would have been off the portal market. Yeah. So we were very fortunate that a quarterback with 5,500 passing yards of the last two years, was still available. He's in a, you know, he'll battle for our job.

But since he's been on our campus, who he is as a person, the way he's picked things up, it's really been impressive. And he's still getting healthy, too. Correct, yes. Because we were talking about this earlier today where you'd mention, you guys as coaches want to see this calendar change. And the idea of a more flexible off-season practice, whether that be a traditional spring practice or if coaches wanted to do more NFL-style OTAs. And you mentioned that a lot of your guys were injured coming out of last season, probably didn't get to participate as much in spring as you'd have liked. Can you imagine if you had, you know, some June practice, May June practices where those guys could recover? Yeah, you would, you would want that.

And you want to have the flexibility. I mean, my first year, Duke, we had five ovens, lemon all during spring practice, right? How do you run a practice? You don't. I mean, it's insane. I mean, this year, we only had four defensive backs. We had four cornerbacks and four safeties. So you're a sprained ankle away from almost not having to, you can't have a too deep.

So it only makes sense to practice when your team is there. And in the transfer era, Now a lot of the guys that we recruit have to be grads. So a lot of times they have to stay for the spring. And so that's another group of guys. We have two safeties that we think will compete for the starting job that they weren't here. We have a Wada that'll compete for a starting job. He wasn't there.

So, you know, and that's just to name a few. And he's coming from the Ivy League. That's correct. Like Cooper Barque last year. Same exact year. Cooper wasn't on our campus last spring either. And so it had an all this seat year or so you'd love to have the team there to practice them. And we're not quite there with how our spring is now.

The Ivy League thing is interesting. We had Jaden Craig from Harvard, who's going to be TCU's quarterback on the show. For a school like Duke, how much does it help that they don't redshirt? And then sometimes you have those guys that had that year of eligibility left. It's been great for us. We've done really well with our Ivy guys. We've got a great business program that they want to come and get that degree. And when you've got Harvard Duke or Dartmouth Duke or Princeton Duke to name some of the ones we've had come through, it's pretty good on your resume.

Yeah, as I said, the parents probably like that. That's what we, we, we were talking on the show because Ryan Day's son just committed to Northwestern. And so I pulled his culture, I brought my son to Manny's camp last year. And it was, it was interesting watching that as a dad. But I just, as a dad, I'm trying to imagine what it's like when your son's like, hey, I, I just got a scholarship. I got a really good school. I got it taken care of. And you get to hand out those golden tickets all the time.

Like when, when you have a guy say, I am committing to Duke and he's going to tell his parents, I got a scholarship to Duke. Like, it's going to be unbelievable. It's really cool in my office. You see that it's almost like a reward for the child and for the parents. Yeah. Because some parent, like I said, a lot of football players, you've been around that I've been around, you know, the nature is what made them great football players. Yeah. The nurture is what allows their sons to go to Duke.

And, you know, that's a lot of times that's holding your kid to a high standard, right? I mean, these are the kids that they're not allowed to have seasoned in their house. And as you know, as a parent, those involve hard conversations. You have to be the bad guy at times or the bad woman for the mother. So to see the reward, to see it all come true with that Duke scholarship or that Duke commitment,

it's been, it's awesome to see how it changes the entire family. And so you had been around Duke's program, you'd be coaching the ACC, obviously, you've seen Duke from the outside. What was it about it when you took this job and did you think you could get to this point this quickly? Well, so,

Elko did an unbelievable job in the two years there. And there were some people on the staff that were on my Miami staff, including the strength coach, David Feely. And when Elko left and he called and said, would you be interested? And I said, well, would you stay? And he said, I'm only staying if you're coming. I said, I'm only coming if you're staying.

Because he really is, I think, the reason why we win, our players believe that he gives them an advantage on game day. And, you know, your coaches use the culture word all the time. But he really does set the culture down with how we work in the weight room. And so what you would expect, I don't know if anybody can say what they've expected in this era of college ball. The seasons are so crazy and volatile. And I think we all, if we ran it back, you might probably get a different result. But it's been fun to see the success we've had.

We just had a graduating class leave as the highest winning senior class in Duke history. So to be a part of that has been pretty fun. You're in an interesting situation because you were a head coach in the old era, and then you went to being a coordinator and then back to being a head coach in the new era. How different was it just from when Miami ended to when you got the job at Duke? How much had everything changed? Everything. 24 months changed everything. It was just remarkable how that first six weeks on the job and again, this is just the baby NIL.

Yeah. I mean, even how much has changed in the 24 months since then. is remarkable, but it was it was almost unrecognizable how everything had changed in terms of the retention, the recruiting, the portal, the money, and how you have to staff. Yeah. Right. I mean, you've seen the prominence of general managers. Right. Who handles your cap?

That wasn't a thing back then. Why do you think you've been able to adapt? Well, I think we're surrounded by great people, again, at Duke. And I think we've got great top-down alignment from the university president. through our AD. So they put you in a position where you can be successful. Yeah. And, you know, and then look, our league has always been known for close games.

Yeah. We won a bunch of close games last year. And we've got eight fourth quarter comebacks over the two seasons. And, you know, those are the fine margins that successful seasons from average ones. And it's really interesting with those because when you see a season where a team wins some close games, you think, okay, maybe that is good fortune. Maybe that, but when teams win close games over and over again, then you realize it's, it's something the staff is doing, something the players are doing.

How do you win in those margins? Yeah, it's not random. I don't think. You don't want to be in a bunch of coin flip games, obviously. But, you know, I think wanting to be a very well-conditioned team, which we talk about. I think the biggest thing is is the mental toughness, the resiliency, because things are not going to go your way. That's a big thing at Duke is our guys can suffer from perfectionism at times. Yeah. And trying to preach persistence over perfectionism, which really is our season in a

nutshell a year ago. Obviously, we were far from perfect, but we were damn persistent. Yeah. And I think the ability to overcome having bad things happen for you is so vital now in college football because there's so much more parity. Is that, okay, you mentioned the guys suffering from perfectionism. I'm thinking, okay, these are guys that probably made great grades in high school, everything they've been the best at everything in class and on the field. Is it different coaching this population than it was coaching at other places? For sure. Absolutely it is because they have a superpower.

But every superpower, your kryptonite is usually not far from it. And they're pleasers. They want to do it right, right? They want to do it exactly the way that you coach them. But you can become a little robotic, right? You can try to do everything exactly, you know, count your dance steps per se. Yep. And again, when they do make a mistake, they're so disappointed because they wanted so well, much to do it right.

So you learn, right? Every team that you coach, you have to coach a little bit differently and you have to respond to what they need. And that's been one of the fun challenges, learning what makes our guys go, what they do amazing. And then where as a coach, you can sort of fill in where they need it. So you were talking about strength coach earlier. How do you realize when you've, because it feels like the best combos are. are when a head coach and a strength coach just mesh perfectly together, that's obviously the person who spends the most time with your players. How do you know when you've got that guy?

Yeah, because what coach is going to tell you, he's got a bad strength coach, right? Exactly. But I've seen it when it's happened. No, I know. Yeah. It's like every offseason story, you know. But you, you had a chance to not reunite with your guy and all you would do is reunite. Right. That tells me that's your guy.

So it's, what's the stories I heard about David, even going back to Temple. Yeah. And when I heard players there say he's the reason why we win. When I got to Duke and the players there said he's the reason why we win. I think what Dave does is he combines, you have to be tough first and foremost, right? But at Duke especially, you have to be smart and his ability to use data. Our guys love data. They love evidence.

And so he can present the science of it. But without nerding out too far, where again, you lose the toughness. That's a fine balance. I think he does it really well. And then he, our players, will be the first. tell you he does not waver right if it's going to be 10 reps it's going to be 10 and not nine and a half and um and i think that is what allows you to sustain a program because um they have to bring it in there every day and there's just no days off in our weight room so how how did you process

handle losing derian i mean i know you we talked about getting walker how frustrating is that situation when it happens you know right there at the end you know you know my overriding emotion is gratitude. And I really mean that I'm, I am thankful that Derry Mentson came to Duke. I'm thankful that we're able to win the ACC together. We had a great relationship together. And your mindset from that very first stage,

we're not going to be a victim. Right, right? We won the championship. That banner will hang in that stadium forever. And now we find a new way to go. win again, right? And we won very differently in 25 than we did in 24. We have different strengths in our team now in 26 and our responsibility is to find a way to win in 26. So, you know, there have been stories in pro sports, right? We're, you know, the top players left through

free agency. It's, it's happened before. And the best franchises respond. You know, we talked to our team about when Kevin Durant left the thunder. Yeah. Right. And you could argue that in the dozen years since then, they are now the best NBA franchise ever. And so, Um, there's always a way forward. And my responsibility is to make sure everyone in the program knows what that is. And the, the portal has probably give it to you more than it is taken, taken away. And how do you, how do you approach that every year? When, when you were looking at the end of the season and you say, here's,

here's what we need. Because it's not the same as every, like we were just talking about you can't take the same guys that everybody else can. How do you, do you have to start with the pool that you're, capable of taking and then narrow down from there yeah because number one i tell her but if the if if the portal is a big walmart there's only a few rows we can even shop because of the academics you have to look at your roster i think one thing it's hard for coaches you have to be honest with your own roster with yourself as a staff where are we strong where do we need to improve

where are we just not old enough maybe sometimes that's it you know we've got some really good young offensive line in our program but you know what we had the ability to go out and get some old tackles yeah which keeps us old on the offensive line line. That didn't used to happen, right? You lose three starters on the old line like we did. You would backslide because you're coming to sophomores, right? And now if they're not quite ready out of the oven yet, you don't have to take them out yet. So I think it's those type things. And then we have just been very fortunate because, again, I think the ones that want to transfer to Duke, what they are attracted to our school for allows them to really mesh with the guys in our locker room. Because that's always a question, right? When a transfer comes in, the first thing I think about is team morale. Will the guys look at him and say, oh, oh, thank God, he's here or what's that guy doing here? And our guys have really sort of been able to meld with our current roster very easily. And it seems like you guys have been very good at finding people who fit the culture, yes, but the schemes also. How ruthless of an evaluator do you have to be and how well do you have to understand what it is you do?

Because we've seen teams that they'll sign a bunch of players that looks good on paper. But when they put them on the field, they don't necessarily fit the scheme they're playing. How hard do you have to try to make sure they fit perfectly in this era of you're paying these guys? And if you take a guy at Duke and he's going to want to stay probably. Yeah, it's not fantasy football. Yeah. You're not just adding data to it. And so I do think you have to have really good understanding of your schemes.

And maybe I think sometimes there are some market deficiencies that people miss on guys because they're undervalued. Yeah. And so we've done a good job with that of how we've hit on offensive linemen or defensive linemen. been the really critical ones. Yeah. And so, look, I mean, we have to go play again this year. We'll see, but we do think the ones that we've had on our campus in the spring that we had in the portal have all been good takes for us.

The idea of staying old on the offensive line, it's not new, obviously. It's something that you now can do. But I'm curious, how do you balance that? Because obviously, the highest ceiling is usually someone that you bring in and kind of develop along the way. but how do you how do you decide okay this one is not ready to come out of the oven yet and we do need to go take somebody for this year yeah you have to look i mean and you're you're always you're always trying to develop your roster you're you know we do we do it Sunday night

football we take the guys that aren't playing a lot and let them you know let them get get after it on sunday nights and um and you just have to you know look and there's there's no there's no perfect signs to it where you'll know exactly when a guy's ready yeah but if you're if you have a question you don't want to go into season without the ability to protect quarterback right um and so but what we want to be we want to be a developmental program because we first we talked about about the academics um but you also and i'm sure every coach here would tell you the same thing you're always aware of what's expensive in the portal yes if you got to go every year for tackles and edge rushers and there's certain positions that are always always going to cost more same as

in the NFL where if you can develop those right then that's you know great economics right and that leaves you extra for for the positions that maybe don't cost as much but you can get a superstar at that yeah exactly uh it's it's amazing and and i could nerd out like probably like your players too in the weight room all day but i i appreciate him many and uh and congratulations on uh that title often thank you very much that is duke coach manny dyes and uh yeah he he's thankful for the time that dering men has spent in durham and he's worried about getting this team ready to try to defend an ACC title. And look, Ari, when you combine what Mike Elko did it, Duke and what Danny Diaz has done

over the first two years there, so the past four seasons, I think, one, they've had two very good coaches, obviously, that they've hired. But they've really changed that program's fortunes in the NIL era. Yeah, I think that the goal, I mean, I thought that what he said was nice, the, you know, teams lose free agents and get better. the Oklahoma City, Kevin Durant thing, was interesting. I think that if you're Manny Diaz, the goal is obviously to create a program that's sustained success enough where a player like Dariena and Mentsa wouldn't want to leave. Like that's the thing that you need to examine.

It's like, well, why did he leave and why did he go to another school in your conference? And maybe some of that is financial. Maybe all of it's financial. I don't, you know, but there are. He got an offer. He couldn't refuse. But I think that if you cultivate a winning. culture that, you know, changes the way people view the program.

The way that Indiana has, it always goes back to Indiana. But the way that other programs have, then maybe you have a higher likelihood of holding on to him even when that bigger offer comes. So, like, and maybe Duke's on the way. And I give him a lot of credit. They didn't win the ABC last year. And I do think that they would have played Oregon better than James Madison, but that's just not the way the rules work last year.

Yeah. So now go win it again and you're going to be in. Yeah. And I think that's what they're planning on trying to do. Got another great interview tomorrow. Georgia Tech coach Brent Key joins the show. Of course, we talk about his favorite kind of block. Because he's the O lineman's O lineman.

He's a head coach now. He makes the big bucks. He sits in the big chair. But that man's still an O'Lyman at heart. Brent Key tomorrow on the show, and we will talk to you then.