Andy & Ari On3 - Is the NCAA Tournament Duke's to lose?

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

Bring home the W with the ultimate tailgate package. The Burger Box from Whataburger is perfect for every occasion. It comes with 10 single or double burgers (with or without cheese), your pick of sauces and all the fixings (which you can customize — did someonesay grilled jalapeños?). Keep it basic or go wild, it’ll be a slam dunk. Order online from April 4-7 and earn double reward points.(0:00-1:46) Intro: Sweet 16 Matchups(1:47-7:26) Seth Davis Intro; Intriguing Games(7:27-18:54) Deep Dive into Arizona vs Duke(18:55-24:58) Tennessee vs Kentucky(24:59-26:46) John Calipari in the Sweet 16(26:47-28:50) Sleepers to win it all, Alabama vs BYU(28:51-33:58) Seth's story on Joe Grahovak(33:59-36:14) Seth and Woj missing Reggie Miller in MSG(36:15-37:20) Wrapping up with Seth Davis(37:21-38:55) Whataburger(38:56-52:52) Spring Bedlam Game?(52:53-54:48) Stanford Firing Troy Taylor(54:49-59:52) Sean Miller's Social Media Handle(59:53-1:01:30) Fran Brown on Syracuse QB1 Battle(1:01:31-1:09:14) Conclusion: Reminiscing on Ohio State at Virginia Tech  Seth Davis of CBS Sports and HoopsHQ joins Andy and Ari to preview a loaded Sweet 16. The chalk of the early rounds created some huge matchups. Can Arizona’s Caleb Love shock Duke the way he did as a North Carolina player in the Final Four in 2022, or are the Blue Devils just going to roll into the Elite Eight? Is Michigan-Auburn the sneaky most exciting game of the round? Kentucky has beaten Tennessee twice as an underdog. Can the Wildcats do it a third time, or will the Volunteers get a chance to keep chasing that elusive first Final Four appearance? Plus, Stanford general manager Andrew Luck fired football coach Troy Taylor on Tuesday. Also, Oklahoma State coach Mike Gundy thinks Bedlam should be revived as a spring game. Watch us LIVE on YouTube, M-F, at 9:30 am et! https://youtube.com/live/MviowMNKd_0 Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari WassermanProducer: River Bailey

Welcome to Annie and Ariane 3. Your sweet 16 preview is today because games tomorrow, games Friday, and they are really good games. So we brought on a very special guest, Ari, an old friend of yours and mine, Seth Davis. You see him on CBS. He's got his website Hoops HQ, which we end up talking about an incredible story that they have on Hoops HQ that it spins into some some more incredible stories. But very exciting. And then also, Ari, once we're done talking to

Seth, we got some football stuff to talk about because Mike Gundy wants to revive Bedlam as a spring game and I am here for it. Yeah, I can't wait to talk about that. I've got thoughts. I'm gonna hold my breath and just wait for it. Yeah. I can't wait to talk about that. I've got thoughts. I'm going to hold my breath, uh, and just wait for that, uh, that segment. But Andy, Seth is a good luck charm. I'm happy he came, uh, onto the show. And then the thing too, it was like, I was like, kind of nervous about talking

about March Madness on the show because I don't know anything about basketball. And like, it's the perfect hack to have the person who knows the most about basketball, uh's why we do it. Yeah, wealth of knowledge and I could ask stupid, you know, casual questions. And he's like, actually like, oh, that's a good question. It's like, I wasn't really, I don't know. We'll see. Um, but I appreciate that for being here and, um, certainly I'm excited to watch

these games here, uh, coming up at the end of the week. These games are incredible. Like, I don't think I've been this excited about a Sweet 16 lineup in years. And I do realize that a lot of it is because the first weekend was not what we're used to for out of the first week. So we didn't get the wacky upsets.

We didn't get as much of that, but I'm very excited about what is coming on Thursday and Friday. So let's talk to Seth Davis. We are honored to be joined by the founder and editor in chief of Hoops HQ. You see him on CBS during the March Madness coverage. Well, CBS, Turner, you name it,

with the greatest pocket squares in the world. He's the first, you name it uh with the greatest pocket squares in the world. He's the first person to ever tell me about having a suit deal which blew my mind. Yeah, but Seth Davis, Ari Wasserman has a better story about you. So, I'm going to let Ari have

the floor. I don't know if you remember this stuff. I'm sure you do but when I was uh still for writing for the Cleveland Plain dealer and the athletic was coming to get me. Do you remember I remember trying to recruit me. So anyway, I was going trying to recruit me. I to

I can't remember what beach Manhattan Beach or Hermosa Beach. And he said, I'm going to be, you know, near this pier at this time, come stop by, we'll hang out for 30 minutes. That's right. So I go there. I go probably, right? Yeah, you were with your dog. And I go there and you emerge from the ocean. And you were like one of the cool guys that like as you were getting out of the ocean, you pulled the top of it off. You know how like people walk with the wetsuit half down? That was you. And you opened up your arms. I don't know if you remember saying this, you said, this could be your life. And I'm like, okay, I'm working at the athletic.

And then five hours later, Seth, I met my now wife. So you want to talk about like significant days, like, you know, how, you know how you think about like days that change your life? Like I changed my employment and my future all in that same day. And I have to think that you were the good luck charm to help me find my wife. So thank you. I was the one constant. And now you're hanging out with Andy Staples. So you've elevated your game.

Yeah, yeah. I just miss you because my last two jobs before this one, you were already working there. So. Right, well, you know, eventually we'll all be working for like two people. So we'll all be in that direction. And you may be one of those people, so that's fine.

I'm good with that. That works for me. I'd be too much responsibility at that point. I'm trying to like decrease my responsibility and I'm doing a that. That works for me. That'd be too much responsibility at that point. I'm trying to like decrease my responsibility and I'm doing a terrible job of it. No, listen, I am enjoying very much hearing you chop it up with Jay Wright and Candice Parker. And this has been, I think this has been a fun tournament.

I know people don't like the chalkiness of the first weekend, but what I enjoy was you had some high level games in round two that were close. And now you get these matchups in the Sweet 16 where it's just banger after banger after banger. And I guess I'll just start open-ended. Which of these Sweet 16 games excites you the most?

Gosh, that's a great question. I mean, you kind of hit on the head there in that, again, I come from the TV world as well, where everyone likes the Cinderella stories and the cute mid-majors, whatever, but then if you get to the later rounds and that's what you have, they don't bring as much juice. And sometimes these lower seated teams, they don't and sometimes you know, t

teams, they might pull of around one or two, but th really good team in the S 20 and that's not good te um you know, we do have a I mean, I'm looking down Auburn michigan kind of j bit. Uh michigan is obviou

well, won the Big Ten tournament. They found a level of physicality and toughness that they didn't really have the first couple months of the season. They've developed that throughout the course of the season. That's amazing credit to Dusty May and his staff and what he's built there. Auburn is interesting guys, cuz they lose three out of four games coming into the NCAA tournament. You know Auburn is interesting guys cuz you know they they lose three out of four games Coming into the NCAA tournament and yet they were still so far ahead of the field that they were the number one overall team

in the bracket and so I do feel like carrying that mantle of being the best team wore on them and they did not defend with the level of Intensity and execution that they had for much of the season during those last few weeks. So maybe the tournament gives them a chance to reset. They look good and winning their first two games took them about a half to get started in the first round game. Creighton fought them hard, but they just had too much firepower.

But now they're running into a Michigan team that's definitely loaded, got two big seven footers who really know how to play and play well together. And then a guard core that's been a little bit up and down, but is obviously playing his best basketball right now. So Auburn being a number one seed for most of the season. And then the Duke Arizona game is fun because Arizona has a guard in Caleb Love, who used to play at North Carolina. Was the best player on the North Carolina team that beat Duke in the Final Four

in Mike Jaszewski's last game. They played a couple of times, including earlier in the season in Tucson when Duke won the game. So that one's gonna be, but like you said, Andy, I mean, you got eight games of just great matchup after great matchup, it's gonna be a lot of fun. You had Duke when the bracket came out,

you picked Duke as your national champ, and they have just blown people off the floor. I remember watching the ACC tournament, they're playing Wake Forest, you see Cooper Flagg come down on that ankle, and they had another starter go out with a dislocated shoulder that ended his season, you're thinking, okay, is this falling apart for them? But they've been just phenomenal since the tournament started. You mentioned Caleb Love, 28 points when they closed out Coach K's career in the final four when he was in North Carolina.

Does he have to have a game like that for them to even have a chance? You know, it might require that because the thing about Duke, the reason why I picked him and a lot of people are picking them is because of their defense. One of the top defensive teams in the country. They've been top three all season long on Ken Pob. They're also the tallest team in the country. That's not just inside. I mean, you got a seven foot ten, seven foot two, Kamon Malawatch and Cooper Flag is six nine. Con Canipel is six seven. It's a shame they lost Malik Brown, but also their guard,

Sion James at the point is 6'6 and Tyrese Proctor is 6'4. So you've got size all through the lineup. So their team that can withstand a bad shooting night. And then when they do shoot it well, Proctor goes 7 for 8 from 3 against Baylor. I mean, they're unbeatable. They're gonna shoot like that. I think that Duke and I felt this for you know at least a month or so you know everyone keeps talking about the ACC, the ACC, and the ACC's down and that's undoubtedly true. But it's hard to beat a team by 30 points. I mean they're not like squeaking through these games. They were crushing people and then they played a very good Illinois team, which last I checked is not in the ACC.

They played a Madison Square Garden in late February, beat them by 47 points, biggest loss in the history of that program. And then eight days later, Illinois went into Michigan and won at Michigan by 20. So that's the level that Duke has been playing at, and people have been way too dismissive of them because of the ACC thing. So obviously I'm not saying they're underrated, they're Duke, a lot of people pick them. I know they're a betting favorite to win it all,

but I just think they check all of the boxes that you look for for a team to win the championship. You know, as somebody who's like not plugged in on basketball the way we are with football, it's like kind of interesting to me. And, and I, I'm sure that coach K had a lot to do with this, but that Duke is still in the position that it's in, you know, without the greatest coach in college basketball history or one of them, like, what is it, do you think about

this Duke team, um, this Duke program that, you know, did he build it to withstand, you know, time? I mean, what, what, I just like, don't want them to win it because I don't want to take away from the accomplishments that he had. Is that a weird thing to think? Well, it's certainly not going to take away from what he did is done. I mean, that's that's already that he's already in the barn. It's actually Ari.

It's a great point because and sort of towards the end of our coverage, Adam Lefkoe threw this at me in a similar way in that we always talk about how hard it is to follow the man. And John Shire now in his third year, is doing an amazing job. And he's doing it in a way that's even like a little bit different.

Like John Shire was the first college coach to hire a general manager. Now everybody has a general manager. Now these GMs are making more than some head coaches, and especially in the football world. And he had this woman Rachel Baker who was a Harvard Business School grad who was working for Nike and running their EYBL program. And he didn't know what the job was gonna be

or what they were gonna call her or what she was gonna do. He just knew that he wanted her under his tent. So he'll call you general manager and every general manager's job is different at different schools. But the point is that's just one example. And then like last year, they go out in the NCAA tournament, they lost the league eight to NC State.

They almost lost to Houston in a game where Houston lost its best player Jamal Shedd, All-America point guard, in the opening minutes and still almost beat Duke in the game. And Duke oftentimes through the years has been these teams that, you know, they're a great offensive team. They shoot threes. They play really well in Cameron. But then they run into a team like Tennessee. Remember Frank Martin's South Carolina team beat them. Just grown men, physical. And so no one else is trying to do it with one and done guys. So John Shire's bringing in Cooper Flaggatt

and these one and done freshmen, which nobody else is doing. People say you can't do it. Using the transfer portal to get older. So he's just doing a lot of, young. He's 37. He's very forward thinking he's not in there thinking about all these changes like oh man this sucks. This is not how we used to do it. He's being forward thinking he's that's like Wayne Gretzky skating to the puck and it has become a very good catfish in terms of the way he's coaching the team. I mean, he's very, very impressive and it really Ari is not being pointed out enough. Like he followed Coach K, it's really hard to do.

And let me also say this, because Coach K took a lot of grief for the farewell tour. And the head coach, but John Shire had a full year as the assistant, named the head coach and waiting to button things up to be ready to get them a full year ahead on to get ready and get his recruiting in order. So it was, it was a very smart move by coach K straight out of the West point playbook to have your top Lieutenant there ready to take over. And John Shire has him as a beat. So what he's saying is that Nick Saban should have done a farewell tour, Andy, right? Is that what

you heard? We should have had a John Shire. I don't know who that would have been. Robbie Zell, the guy, the guy who was the walk-on who did the great Nick Saban impression, who's the, he's an assistant Wake Forest now. So maybe that, that would have been it. But Seth, like Duke is not so hateable anymore. And I don't know. One, I think Shire has a lot to do that. I remember watching him. I was watching his press conference and this is, this was after Cooper flag got hurt in the ACC tournament because I was, we were about to do a show. I was trying to figure out what we're going to say. And I wanted to get the latest information. And so I'm watching his press conference and I texted these guys, I like, this guy is so freaking

smooth. There's no football coach this smooth. And he just kind of gets it. Reminds me a little bit of like Eric Spolstra with the heat, or maybe even JJ Reddick, but with more coaching experience. But, and then you've got Cooper Flagg, who he's gonna be the number one pick in the NBA draft, but he's not like the typical Duke star who kind of annoys you. Like he's fun to watch. Yeah, I've heard that a lot. Um, yeah, I think it's true on all counts. I mean, I never, you know, coach K one so big that it's like, you know, I mean, I grew up a Redskins fan rooting against

the cowboys and rooting against the yankees and i i mean i understand that but there was a degree of vitriol directed at duke and coach k that was just it was just dumb you know obviously uh savens gotten a lot of that um and you know these guys are sort of old school guys are not always feeling so warm and fuzzy. So maybe that's part of it. I think some of it goes back to Christian Leighton, who was certainly not likeable. And so there's a there's a lot going on there. But I can only tell you that I find John Shire to be incredibly thoughtful, incredibly kind, very humble. I think in this environment where players are truly empowered to make money, to transfer, to lead for the pros, you can't this my way or the highway. First of all, I don't think that ever worked, but I think it especially doesn't work now. You got to be a good person. You got to treat people well. You got to be somebody who people, because if they don't like

you, they'll just go somewhere else. You don't have to put up with it. So I think he's managing that really well I mean what you see is what you get He's very intelligent and he has that that blend that I think a lot of great achievers have which is supreme Confidence and great humility like he knows he's good and he's competitive, but he's not full of himself He doesn't take it's about the job, it's not about him. And if that weren't the case, his team wouldn't be winning the way that it is. Seth, I would be remiss to not ask you as an Arizona grad,

as we look at these matchups here. You know, in college basketball, we do a lot of talking on this show in terms of like, you know, football and comparing the two and the brands of the sport and whatever. And I feel like in basketball, you have sturdy brands that are just, you know, everybody knows Duke in North Carolina, right?

But I went to a basketball school and Arizona hasn't won a national championship in now almost 20 years. Wait, would it be, what's 97? This is a bad at math podcast. That's almost 30 years, right? It would be 28. 28 years, right? It would be 28 years, right?

23 years. But Arizona is viewed, or I think nationally, at one point was viewed on the pantheon of like basketball elite programs. And they've had a lot of early exits and stuff. From your perspective, how big is this game for Arizona and even college basketball in general, if Arizona is able to win it and

kind of reclaim some of their past glory and give the sport another power that is humming. Like does that make sense to you? Yeah, it does. It does. I mean, look, it's just the NCAA tournament is just hard. It requires a lot of luck. You can go over, you know, Kelvin Sampson the last few years and what he needs to be able to break through. Mark Few, how many times did he knock at the door

to break through and he was been able to play in now in two national championship games. So I think it's only a matter of time for Tommy Lloyd and Arizona. Again, similar to a John Shire, that kind of a little older than John, but spent a lot of time on the bench in Zaga, Again, similar to a John Shire, that kind of a little older than John, but spent a lot of time on the bench in Gonzaga.

Came to Arizona when he had gone through some things and lost his coach in Sean Miller. And he's been good, I mean, recruiting good players, went right, leaning into the international thing, which was really his bread and butter that he did for Gonzaga for so long. And he's a good coach, he's a good coach and these guys play for him. They had a tough, as you know, Ari, a tough injury early in the season. Montevius Crevis was supposed to be their best big guy.

And he was hurt early on, they kind of had him in and out of the lineup, finally had to shut him down. That was a big time loss. And then they had Henry Vesar who replaced him, but maybe wasn't quite ready at that time to be the guy. And now they had to force feed him took him some time to get going. So, you know, they're a good team. And then, you know, playing in the Big 12 is different deal now than being in that Pac 12. So it's been, you know, an adjustment all around. And so, you know, he had had the loss to Princeton a couple of years ago and had to go through that and has come out on the other side of that.

And now, beat a really good Oregon team down to the last possession, managed to escape that could easily have been. It's funny like they could easily have lost to Oregon easily and the whole narrative of the program is different. Sweet 16 versus the second round is a huge difference in the minds of the public. We understand that it's one game difference, it's one possession difference. So now you're in the sweet 16 and now you get the best team in the tournament. And on the one hand, you're playing with house money, but

on the other hand, you need a little bit of luck to be able to get further. So I think it's just only a matter of time. Arizona is a great basketball program. It's a great job and I think he's a great fit for it. So it's only a matter of time. I want to talk about the one conference game that is going on in the Sweet 16 because it is fascinating to me this Kentucky-Tennessee matchup. Third time they've met. Tennessee's been favored every time. Kentucky's won the two previous meetings and I went back and looked and I remember watching them live and remember Kentucky shooting well, but but the numbers were pretty interesting

Kentucky hit 50% from three in both games. I think there were 1224 in both games from three. That's correct. And Tennessee couldn't throw it in the ocean in either game. But those felt like fairly uncharacteristic games for Tennessee. So is there a chance it plays out for a third time like it has already?

Or do we see something different this time? Well, your guess is good as mine. It's funny because it's a cliche in sports. It's hard to beat a team three times. I'm like, if you've already beaten them twice, probably better. So would you rather be the team that won the first two, or would you rather be the team that lost the first?

So it's actually hard to beat a team once, is really the last. But you've beaten them twice. I'd rather have the team that won those two games. Having said that, I think they're evenly matched teams. I think Tennessee is probably a little bit better. A little bit better on the defensive end. Now, Kentucky just got their point guard back. Lamont Butler didn't do much in their first game against Troy, but played much better against Illinois. He's a really good defensive guard.

I think it was either all defense or defensive player in the year in the Mount West at San Diego State. So and now he's got another five days of practice and kind of get in the flow and hopefully rehab his shoulder and be ready to go. So that's a terrific matchup with him and Zakiya Ziggler the Tennessee point guard. Ziggler is a great assistant. He's not a big scorer, but he can score really good assistant turnover guy, uh,

sec defensive player of the year. And they also have one of the best, uh, defensive players in the country. And, uh, Jemima Mayshak, that was a great, uh, glue guys. So Tennessee can hit some half court bombs if, if you need to, that's it. That's it. So I think Tennessee is the better team. I think they win the game, but it's certainly going to be close. Hopefully it'll be close.

Who you contextualize just I know this is a rivalry. Our producers on pins and needles about it, just the need for Kentucky, who's in a bit of a transition in terms of like the program direction, not having the coach that they've had for many years on the sideline anymore. Like, is it important for them to try toe? You know, I mean, obviously to try to win, but to to get back to a lead eight situation for program stability. Or do you like? I mean, I don't know, like in football, there's always narrative. Everything with every game is what does this mean? Or what is reaching this

get like? I mean, is this kind of a crossing across road for Kentucky in the same way that you might find in a football matchup of a big time program? I think they've crossed that road with the with the coaching change and whatever you want to say about John Calipari, he had the wherewithal to make that decision. He was not fired. He was not going to be fired. He had an opportunity. They gave him an off ramp. It was covered with chicken, the Tyson goose. We always chased the chicken. And then they went through a couple, you know, they went down and rode a little bit with Scott Drew. He flew out to Kentucky with his family to look at it,

really, really think about it. And then when to Kentucky with his family to look at it, really, really think about it. And then when they ended up with Mark Pope, there were some folks on Twitter and out there who were kind of disappointed with it. I thought from the beginning, I've gotten to know Mark pretty well. I did a story on him for the athletic when he took over.

BYU didn't have to move, so I went up there and sat in his house with him and hung out with his wife and a couple of his daughters and just a super individual. I mean, he was a Rhodes Scholar candidate when he played for Kentucky. He was at Columbia Medical. And he didn't like just get there.

He was like second or third year. He was a ways down and he just this isn't for me. So he calls Mark Fox who at the time was the head coach of Georgia. He's like man I want to get into coaching and Fox like well we got camp right now you want to come down I'll find something for you. He drives drops out of Columbia med school drives to Athens Georgia from New York and he's like doing laundry for like camp kids, like not even like, he's literally doing laundry. And look at him now and the vibe around the program. He's just such a, you want to talk about likeable now. I mean, he is positive,

he's energetic, he gets it, you know, he walked into that arena. When they when they introduced him as the coach. I mean, how many schools can put 20,000 people in an arena for an introductory press conference? I mean, only at Kentucky. And he made it up and walked in there with the trophy. So look, he's gonna have to go through it like everybody else with the transfer portal. I mean, he came in there with no team. So he had to create a team the transfer portal. I mean, he came in there with no team. So he had, he had to create a team

through the portal and it's not like they got a bunch of surefire NBA lottery picks. I mean, they have good players who fit well together. That's the name of the game. You got to get your roster and get them to fit well together. I think he gets it. He obviously knows how to coach. So, uh, you can tell your producer that their, their program is in good hands. Well, now ours producer is a Tennessee guy, but we also have Kentucky Sports Radio is on the On3 network. So, you know, those folks. Now I had some fun. We had Paul Feinbaum on the show yesterday. I said, what's the collective psyche of Big Blue Nation gonna be like if Cal last longer in

the tournament than Kentucky does? And they got mad when I posted the clip. But here's the thing. It all worked out. Cal was not getting them past the second, or the first week in the NCAA tournament. It had probably run its course there. Mark Pope has put that program in a place where everybody's happy with it. They feel like they're on a good trajectory.

Meanwhile, Cal has given Arkansas everything it wanted. It's the rare case where everything worked out for everybody. Well, it is not, we weren't saying that a month ago, you know. No. Again, I give Cal Perry a ton of credit. You know, he kept that locker room together. You know, he's obviously a lightning rod.

He's an easy target. I've taken my shots at him. We all have. He brings a lot of it on himself. I get all that. But at the end of the day, it's about the people in that locker room. And if those players thought that he was all about himself, then they wouldn't have been able to turn around.

They stuck together and he got them to believe in that. And he's always been able to do that. I mean, his former players, I know a lot of them. I work with a lot of them on television. I mean, I was at Atlanta at Turner and John Wall, who's doing NBA TV was out there. I was watching the game with them and he's I mean, he loves Calipari loves Kentucky, but he was rooting for Arkansas because of Cal. And so give the man his flowers, you know, and it worked out and and who knows, you know, it's certainly they start off on five. And then how about their one and six in the SEC and

he takes his team and erupt and wins the game. I mean, you can't make that up. So and then to beat Patino who had a great team and everybody was kissing his butt and you know that father crap. Ari and adopted St. John's as his national champ. So my next question is a wonderful segue my long shot for when the tournament got bounced in the second round. the the the the

the the the the the Come on, give me something. I know that you're in on Duke, but what do we got here? Who's the lowest odds or whatever or team that you would view as a long shot? I saw that Arizona is, from a statistical standpoint, the third least likely of the remaining teams

to win the championship. Who do you think could make a run or who's good enough to make a run that I should throw some shekels on? And will be your fault if I lose. Well, I have to look at like all the odds. You know, I don't know if St. John's is a long shot. I don't know what Michigan State is also a two seed. So that might give you some value for your money. Yeah, I do like BYU. I like them to beat Alabama. I think Alabama's a little bit vulnerable, although Alabama showed some real inside scoring ability in their first two games, which I didn't quite know that they had.

I don't know how much value you get on Houston there in one seed, but at this point, the tournament's pretty chalky. And it's like that for a reason. I mean, if people were talking all season long about the metrics on on Ken Palm and what the top what the top teams were doing and that they were that they were pretty considerable that there was a high degree of separation. So um, so it's not a wise bet to throw 80 bucks to win six grand on Arkansas. Is that what I mean? I listen, you got some shackles. Arizona's 36 to one. one Arkansas is 80 to one BYU is 60 to

one in Maryland is 29 to one in Michigan is 60 to one. Those are the long shots. You know, Michigan is not a bad one. Michigan is not a bad one. I like BYU. I mean, just to win the whole thing is hard to imagine that right, but I just need to get to a hedge. OK, I already spent with BYU. I mean, just to win the whole thing is hard to imagine that, right? But you just need to get to a hedge. Okay. I'm already fascinated with BYU. We've had

lots of conversations about why does the national championship so the NBA coach and they got some toughness. Stick with me. The Mormon Church sponsors their NIL fund and they just in football and basketball just just kill everybody. That would be pandemonium. It's a Mormon church, but it's also the owner of the Utah Jazz. So that- Yeah, that also helps. Whatever you have, yeah.

Seth, before we let you go, I gotta ask you about this story. And for those who don't, you see Seth on TV, he came up as a magazine writer. And I want you to go to Hoops HQ after this interview, and I want you to read his story on Joe Grohovic Joe Grohovic is a player who's gonna play for st. Bonaventure. That means yes, Adrian Rogin or ASCII recruited him But his story is just incredible

Let River. Can you play the clip of Seth's interview with Joe? What do you want people to know about you as a person? I love basketball, but it's not my world. You know, life is bigger than basketball and basketball is a good way to see who you are as a person. I'm just imagining, Seth, that Joe had my haircut and then the day after Bill Walton passed, he woke up with that haircut. Like he's the reincarnation of Bill Walton.

Yeah, yeah, and he loves it. He loves his look. It's a crazy story. And as I wrote in the piece, I think we're all kind of assumed, partly because of people like us and people like Woj, that there are no surprises anymore. There's no diamonds in the rough, late bloomers, all that.

Like anybody who's even a little bit decently know who they are when they're 12. We track them, we report on them, we tweet about them. They put themselves out on social media, so there's no surprises. And this is a young man who, for whatever reason, just couldn't bring himself to deal with the pressures of playing, even at the lowest, a middle school basketball and high school basketball. I'm not talking about highly competitive basketball, just was not interested in doing that, but middle school basketball and high school basketball. I'm not talking about like highly competitive basketball,

just was not interested in doing that, but just kept growing and growing and truly loved to play. So he really was just playing it literally a 24 hour fitness and he kept getting invited to different games in different venues. And he's six, 10, always wanted to play point guard. So he plays point guard. He's a really good shooter, really good three point shooter. He's got everything except experience and physicality. He's very, very skinny.

His legs are like chicken legs. So he wasn't hitting the free weights at the 24 hour fitness. No, no, no, he was just playing ball. He was just playing ball and kind of bouncing around and not really motivated by academics. So that became an issue. And he finally got caught the attention of Fullerton College, which is out here in Southern California.

It's a really, really good junior college program. And the assistant got one of his videos from the Drew League, which is like a Pro-Am League. You know, he'd go viral once in a while, and it took him a couple of weeks to convince him to come, and he came and watched practice, and he realized that he could be coached, and that there was a path, and also just kind of learning

that, hey, you can make money playing in college, and so he didn't really know about that. So he played in the Junior College Showcase, and all these D1 coaches saw him, and they were like, holy shit, this guy's amazing. But then they're like, there's no way academically he's not going to make it. And Woege, you know, having taken over at St. Bonaventure and really not knowing any better, coach said, no, no, he's going to graduate in one year. Normally it takes two years to get a

junior college degree, associate's degree. So he's doing it in one. And Woege said, well, if you tell me it's going to happen, I'm in. And so he demonstrated a level of commitment and wherewithal in terms of NIL and partnering in with Baller TV and some other entities to get him a decent financial package. And it's just crazy. He did not know who Woj was. He certainly did not know who I was. I told him, well, I'm on this thing called the selection show. Did not know what the selection show is. Didn't know some of the rules, like I wrote in the piece, you know, he's playing, he picks up a second foul and the coach is like, yo, Joe, you got two fouls. He said, how many do I get?

Because he said he wasn't sure it was five or six. There's a lot that he doesn't know. And he knows that, but he also has a real confidence about him. So he's going to go to St. Bonaventure. They're going to get him in a real strength and conditioning program. He's going to be able to play through his mistakes which he wouldn't be able to do at a high major school and we'll see. I mean it's the issue is he's 23 so that's kind of old for a college freshman and I guess he's entering as a sophomore maybe and we'll see, but it's a great, it was a fun story to write, I appreciate it. Well, and look, college basketball programs,

when you're hiring a GM, now obviously having the guy with 8 million Twitter followers who everybody who follows basketball knows, except for Joe, but hire a GM with an eye for story. Because it's gonna an eye for story. Had an eye for how to do a media rollout because we worked, obviously I worked with him on it and, and he had, you know, like we put it up on it. Like he knows I'm starting a new company called Hoops HQ. What do I want? I want social media attention. So he says, well, if you write a story, and maybe it's not behind the paywall, I'll retweet it and Adam Schefter will retweet it. Like what else?

He knows what I want. So he's, um, well, I've been knowing Wode. I gotta go, but yeah, go for it. Quick Wode story. Wode was like the first friend that I met in this business, because I was covering high school sports with the New Haven Register, and he was covering UConn for the Waterbury Republican American just pissing Jim Calhoun off every day like he just couldn't imagine. So Jim read every word it was amazing. So you know Woj also would cover all the pro sports and on a day off so I go down to the Knicks game, Knicks playoff game, and they're playing the Pacers. And so Woj is kind of coaching me, like the press room, like when you have the food line, give the guy a buck. And so of course, since we were at these small newspapers, we were up in like, and I wouldn't even call it a press, like a little press seating area, but it's up in the crowd.

So we get to the end of the game, and Woj, being the veteran that he is, we sat there the whole game and he says to me, we got to go down before the game is over. Because when the game's over the crowd's gonna be out, we're gonna get stuck behind all these people and we're not gonna be in the press conference. And I'm like, all right, whatever Woj says. We walk down there and we go in the tunnel and the Knicks have the game well in hand so we weren't gonna miss anything. And then we're in the tunnel and I'm like, is something going on out there? Like it kind of seems like but it wasn't, it wasn't a loud noise. We got there. It was the freaking Reggie

Miller game. So I walk out there and the Knicks are losing and Patrick Ewing's on the foul line. I had no idea what happened because I mean Reggie Miller is doing this and obviously the crowds not going wild because he's from the 018 so it was it was so because of woge I missed basketball how many how many threes did he hit in that and He banged in the three and then he stole the inbounds pass and it took three dribbles back and then hit another three And damn you're killed Spike Lee. Yeah. And then Spike Lee thing. And although I was in the tunnel and if you remember, Reggie ran off the court, he's yelling, choke artists, choke artists. And that was like the big headline. So he didn't, he didn't say, hey, Baylor, hope they don't, uh, F you like they have to. No, he didn't do that.

He didn't do that. Cause that important to see them the game. Many years later, I worked with Reggie on, on TV. So he became like my friend and also Greg Anthony was on the Knicks. He was on the court at the time I worked with him. So if you stay alive enough, anything will happen. We've kept you far too long Seth. I have one more question. It's what we ask all our guests. I think I know the answer because I think it's what you tweet every day. But I want to make sure we ask our guests, what's your rule for life?

Please be kind. I knew it with you. That's it. That's it. Just be nice to people. Don't take yourself. See you got you guys are a great example is you guys work your ass off.

You're hustling you take your work seriously, but you don't take yourself seriously and yeah, we're taking ourselves seriously or lost. Cause this little spinning blue rock that's hurling through space, like it was here for a few billion years before we got here. It's gonna be here for a few billion years when we're gone. Like just be a good dude.

That's it. Thanks Seth. That's right. Immerse in the water, peel off your wetsuit and say, Ari Wasserman, this could be your life. I should be a matchmaker. I should be like, yeah, matchmaker. Seth, when you meet his wife, you don't even understand how lucky of a charm you are. So I believe it. I believe it. Thanks. Thanks. Yeah. Appreciate you guys.

That is the great global warming because he said the world is going to be here in a billion years. I don't know about that climate change is a thing. You know, keep your tip. The planet's not going to dissolve, dude. Oh yeah. You're the one who told me that. We're planets not in danger.

Human existence on the planet's in danger. Yeah. We're very selfish creatures. We think we're the only thing that rocks going to still be here, but yeah, it might turn into an ice age, but we're not killing the planet. We're killing us. That was you. That's smart. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. See, it's just don't don't you don't have to be selfish. It doesn't have to be self centered. All of you want to

be generous. All right. You bring home the W with the ultimate tailgate package. The burger box from Whataburger is perfect for every occasion. Comes with 10 single or double burgers. Just get the doubles. Come on, respect your guests and get the doubles. With or without cheese, your pick of sauces, and all the fixings which you can customize.

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Plus, you could also get the Whatta Wings Party Pack, 72 Boneless Tender Bites, a Family Fry Box, and your choice of sauce. So order online April 4th through 7th, earn double reward points, order any time for delicious water burger, bring home the W with water burger. Ari, you know who wants to bring home a W?

Well, I don't think, I don't know if he cares about the W. He just wants the game to happen. Mike Gundy, Oklahoma State head coach, and Mike Gundy's got a lot of great ideas. He is one of those people who is constantly, you know, blue sky thinking like hey, there are no bad ideas. We're going to throw some stuff out here. Mike Gundy wants to revive Bedlam, the Oklahoma, Oklahoma State game as a spring game. Let's make

that. I mean, hey, River, can you roll the clip from Pistols guys? about. I think it's a great idea. I have kind of forgot about it until it got brought up. Somebody had texted me an article or something about that and when you read it, it makes a lot of sense. I mean honestly for us, we should do a home and home with OU in the spring. They have a we have a our I think ours is on I don't know what the date is but it's a Saturday prior to last week something like that okay so they should come here on the 19th and I think theirs is earlier in the year we should go down there and play a home at home in the spring against them charge 25 bucks a head they can use it for an. I. L. We use it for N. I. L. Um, you know, if they don't want to do two in one spring, we can do one here this year, do it there

next year and split the gate. Because we get tired of practice against each other. It's not going to be a live game because I don't know what coach Venter will say, but I would be concerned with making it live just because of injury, but Nobody really has live scrimmages anymore. So you make it a full thud like we're doing and practice against them just like they do in the NFL I See no issues with this because he he qualified it by saying Exactly what your next question was going to be that video by

the way from pistols guys that was. That's how you have to do it because like Oklahoma is not going to put John material in there for the entire game. If he's live. But if you do it like this, if you do it like a joint NFL practice, you invite fans to come and pay and and you say it's going to benefit the school's NIL funds or however you want to do it. You get to watch John Mateer throw the ball. You get to see what Oklahoma State's going to look like. You see what Oklahoma is going to look like. Who says no? Okay, so I was all about this up until the

end when he said we wouldn't play a live game. Now, bear with me here. You know, we have a problem in my house where birds fly into the window like once every 10 minutes, I have no idea what to do. Like, is that like, they just like, I think your house is just cursed. That might be a problem. A guy is here right now. But like. That might be the problem. A guy is here right now. But like these birds fly into the windows because it's like surrounded by trees.

So they... Okay. I would want this... Don't say spring bedlam unless there's a competitive aspect to it. No. I'm telling you, Ari. See, you are letting perfect be the enemy of good. Because there is no chance in hell

that Oklahoma is going to risk the John Matier investment on a spring game. I'm not done. Okay. All right. All right. Go ahead. Go ahead. They have, you know, like how spring games when they played because Andy, it hasn't been

that long since spring games were basically games, right? Like we act like that was like 25 years ago, like five years ago, they played each other. Not really. I mean, Jim Harbaugh usually did. That's not many other ones did. I mean, I covered spring games at Ohio State where they played a football game. Because they're super deep at Ohio State. Most schools couldn't do that. But you can agree that there are games. Yes, yes. And Georgia did are games. Yes, yes. And Georgia did it too.

Yes, yes, I agree. In games, they've always had different rules, right? Like how you draft the teams, who's on what team, how many points does the defense get? How many points does the offense get? Like there's just, it's different everywhere. But what if they came to a conclusion? Cause if you wanna bring the gate into it and you want

to monetize it, you have to give the fans something to get excited about. And I know they get excited about watching young players play, but what if they have pre determined rules of two drives with the starters, two quarters with twos, and then the fourth quarters with the threes. But they play a game, and they care about Can you tackle John Matier during those two drives with the starters? If you want to make the two or three drives or even one quarter of starters where the quarterbacks aren't live, but

everyone else is, then fine, do it. But like get joint agreements from both coaches of how you want to do it and play a fricking game. Okay. We don't get this game. Uh, you want to give fans at Oklahoma state and Oklahoma bragging rights of winning Bedlam like that, like if you want to call it, then don't call it Bedlam, like, am I crazy? Well, here's the thing. You're not going to get a full game in the spring. It's never going to happen in this era where the best players on each team are also the players that each team is most invested in.

It's the same reason you don't see stars play in the NFL preseason. So you're not going to get that. What they should do is just schedule a non-conference game against each other because... Yeah, the obvious one. I mean, I wish we could have a non con bedlam. But don't call it. Because like Oklahoma, Oklahoma doesn't get to go say, well, we play an SEC schedule now. Like I don't know how to break this to you Oklahoma, but there's four SEC schools that have in-state rivals that are in different conferences and they all play each other.

Exactly, right. Like Florida and Florida State aren't scared of each other. Georgia and Georgia Tech aren't scared of each other. Like they just play. Florida played Miami and Florida State, didn't they last year? They did. They'll play him again this year.

Yeah, so you know they're playing too. I think that this should be played like I don't want to hijack the conversation because we don't need to relitigate that Bedlam should be played. Everyone. There's nobody that watches this show that disagrees with that, right? Right.

I don't even think people within the programs disagree with it. Do they? I know that I know Gundy wants to play it. You saw he threw a fit when that happened. Well know that I know Gundy wants to play it. You saw how he threw a fit when that happened. Well, of course, Gundy wants to play it. That's a huge game for them. Wants to play it or no?

I don't think it's as important for Oklahoma as it is for Oklahoma State because Oklahoma has the Texas game. But I do think it's a great game. I mean, I see this with the SEC schools. Like, you know, the Florida-Georgia game is the big conference rivalry, but people would go insane

if Florida Florida State got canceled. Help me out with this because I am a Northern Yankee and I have just recently moved to Texas. I'm not as familiar 100% with the, but my understanding of this is that Oklahoma and Oklahoma State hate each other, right? They do, yeah. And if they do, getting together for spring grab-ass

is what friends do. Like that's not what rivals do, right? Like, am I wrong? Like I think- But there are rivals that work together. I mean- In the spring that work together. I mean, Are Oklahoma and Texas not rivals? Oklahoma and Texas are rivals, but and they work to make most the most money possible outside of it But they don't play grab-ass together off the field

Well, I think they would if it made money and so I look if we're not going to get it any other way, I'll take this. Also I'll just take this. It doesn't even have to be Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. If Oklahoma State wants to go play Arkansas and Oklahoma wants to go play, you know, I don't care. The idea of trying to crap on that. I don't want that to be misconstrued.

I like, I want like the Syracuse Colorado thing to happen. I think that would be great. We talked about that, but I just don't love the idea of naming Bedlam in the spring if there's no competition. Like we have to figure out a way. So don't ignore the name. It's just a name. Could we could call spring joint practices grab ass, right?

Is that okay? If you want, I think they would call it bedlam and you can call it grab ass and they won't give a crap what you call it. Can you change the graphic river to spring grab ass? Like that? No. But that is what it would be, but that's okay.

It's the spring. I'm all right with it because if you're not going to give us Bedlam any other way, and it doesn't seem like they're going to, I'll take this. I would buy a spring Gravass t-shirt. Yeah, and I just wish there was a way that they could have bragging rights, but maybe I just want the whole pie instead of a slice.

Maybe that's just my problem. They should play each other. There's no question they should play each other in the fall. That is not really up for debate, as you said, but if we can't get that, I would take this, it would be fun. It would add some spice to something. That's not really interesting right now. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean anything to make spring more interesting. I guess I'm for and like if we got what you're proposing, that would be great. I'm not trying to say that it wouldn't be good, but I just like there's just an extra oomph there that I want. And the other thing is I go back to like I always love Steve Spurrier spring game strategy, which was completely handicap the defense, like, can't hit the quarterback can't blitz can't

do this. He did this on purpose. Like the reason he did it was so that the quarterbacks just aired out. The fans we get to watch all these bombs get completed. And they'd be like, we got the best offense ever. And they wouldn't complain for four months. So, yeah, but then you do this and just, just turn it into flag football. What if they played us a flag football bedlam? Oh, I might be for that.

Get together for, you know, three practices or two practices, whatever, like they do in the NFL and then play a game that's competitive in some way. Do it, do it like the high school kids do in the camps where you have the seven on seven game and the lineman challenge. Yeah. I mean, you can tear your ACL running a route. So like, I mean, it's like you're never going to avoid the risk of injury. It's football and it happens, you know? And I understand if you're paying John Matier millions of dollars to come save your program, you don't want him to break his elbow in a spring game.

Like I understand the concept, but like, I just like also too, I, it just isn't that long ago that people were hitting each other in the spring. And also the spring is still five months before the season starts in a lot of cases. So even injuries you can get over. A torn ACL, torn Achilles, that sort of thing. There are, yeah, other injuries that you can overcome

in that time period. So listen, I think this, and I'm interested because Deion Sanders is dead serious about this. Frayn Brown from Syion Sanders is dead serious about this. Frayn Brown from Syracuse is dead serious about this. I don't, Mike Gundy has thought this through. The schools make the rules. All they have to do is change the rules and play these things. Yeah.

Yeah. I hope we get to this point. It seems like we're going to. I think that like eventually, and my hope for college football has always been this, Andy, that as we get closer to just like rev share and potential collective bargaining, then eventually that common sense will start prevailing in things in college football. Because common sense hasn't prevailed in this sport for years. And I wonder if we're getting to a point where we're going to be able to get closer to doing things that just makes sense because you don't have to worry about the financial implications of everything all the time. Well, now you still worry about the financial implications. The issue hasn't been worrying about the financial implications of things. The issue has been you have all these universities running everything. Well, what are, and they're mostly public universities.

Like how are public universities run? With massive bureaucracy. So that's their default mode is massive bureaucracy. It's not, here's a great idea, let's do it. It's here's an idea, let's form 17 committees to shoot holes in it. And then maybe two years from now, we'll form another committee to talk about it again but we'll never actually do anything.

Next segment, the college football playoff committee that feeds their results to the actual committee who then makes the results. Wouldn't that be cool if there was a subcommittee? That is every university president's dream right now. Yeah, me, you, Josh Payton, all the other podcasters out there. Yes, we get in the room and we make our bracket, then we hand it to them. And then they use that as a so we're the subcommittee that hands to the committee. I like it. I'm all for it. I really truly believe that the like 12

of us have you got but Elliot and all these guys together in the same room. And we just approached it the way that we approach it on our shows that we would put together as good, if not better of a bracket than the ones who. I think it would look very similar. It'd be the same. Yeah. Yeah. I I'm with you guys.

Let's have spring bedlam. Let's have spring. Whatever you want. Just look, you are the schools. You make the rules, change the rule and play the game it is less complicated than you think do it all right all right we'll mention this briefly because if you want a longer discussion of it we have it for you stanford fired Troy Taylor, their head football coach on Tuesday, Andrew Luck, the GM at Stanford, who is also Andrew freaking luck, made

the decision. So we have the first instance of a GM firing a coach. Now, part of it is Stanford, A. D. Bernard Muir just stepped down. He's still there, but he's done at the end of the academic year, so he's not really making a lot of big picture decisions right now. This is interesting. If you want to hear a deeper discussion about this, we did an emergency show. It's on the On3 Sports YouTube channel. Go give it a watch and a listen. But I think this is this is going to be really interesting to watch going forward with the the GM's depending on the school having 80 type power over football Yeah, uh super interesting discussion and if you're watching this live now and you're not subscribed to the channel, please do that

We're fighting like hell to get this show to grow. And I thought it was a good 20-minute discussion about that. And I think we're gonna have a lot of discussions about GMs, their roles, the evolution of the sport, the evolution of the way that these teams are made in terms of staff. All these things. There's so much happening in the sport right now, and it's an exciting time to have the show. So yeah, go watch it and subscribe to the channel, please. exciting time to have the show. So yeah, go watch it and subscribe to the channel, please. Yes, sir. So well, if you want a deeper discussion, we also have a good Dear Andy Dear Ari question about that job. So I

think you're gonna get some more discussion to that on Thursday show as well. Also kind of a global discussion because it's not, it's not really unique to Stanford, but it's pretty interesting. So we got that. By the way, get those questions in. Dear Andy, dear Ari, you know where to find us. Andi Staples on three at gmail.com, Ari dot Wasserman at on three dot com, Andy underscore Staples on social media at Ari Wasserman on social media. Hit us with your questions. We love when you help drive the show with those questions. That'll be Thursday's show along with an appearance from Steve Wilthaw,

the greatest recruiting reporter who ever lived. We'll be talking some class of 26 because there's a lot of action in the class of 26 right now. But Ari, before we go, I do wanna, I wanna shout out some incredible college sports pettiness. It's, it's so good. So Sean Miller leaves Xavier. This is the second time he's left Xavier for a better job.

He leaves Xavier to go to Texas. A Xavier fan grabbed every decent Twitter handle that Sean Miller could have gotten at Texas. Got at coach underscore Miller underscore UT got coach underscore Miller UT got coach Miller underscore UT got at coach Miller UT X at UT underscore coach underscore Miller all of them got at Coach Miller UT. And some other fans joined in just to make sure they got all the other ones. One one person has made the name above the Twitter handle coach quitter for all of them. And so Sean Miller had to go with at Coach Miller underscore underscore.

It's a terrible Twitter handle. He couldn't come up with another one. You think they got all of them? I think the Texas marketing department probably had to help with this. That's probably the best they could do. That's Miller. I don't know. Yeah, the underscores is kind of a.

You didn't get the double. Yeah, double underscores is a bad way. That's a bad look. At coach Miller underscore. I don't know. That's a tough look. Steven in San Antonio. What Miller did to Xavier was cold-blooded twice. Well, the craziest part was the obvious replacement at Xavier when Sean Miller left that everybody came up with was Chris Mack, who replaced Sean Miller at Xavier the last time. Yeah, that is currently the head coach at

College of Charleston. Chris Mack spotted in a mall, I believe in Charleston yesterday, and then tweeted out last night, nah, I'm staying at Charleston. So they can't just do Sean Miller and Chris Mack into infinity. Now, could Sean Miller go back to Xavier if things don't go well at UT?

That's the question. I don't think he can this time, but you never know. Every time he goes there, they win. Why wouldn't they want him back? It's true. it's true. You know, I didn't think. I didn't think Bobby Petrino would get hired at Louisville again after the way it into the first time,

and he did a second time. Somebody said it was cold blooded. Why is it cold blooded? Xavier knows where it is on the food chain, doesn't it? Yeah, I mean, it's Texas. Like Texas is going to hire your coach away every time. What do you want the guy to do? It's a fair point.

It's a fair point, but they won the pettiness one out because this handle sucks. Exactly. It's just, there's no other way to put it. It just sucks. It does a double underscore at the end is a tough look for a guy who makes millions of dollars. I got at Ari Wasserman because there were some other guy you remember back in the day when Facebook first started

started being a thing I don't know like if where you were in life if you like signed up for it right away but we did because I was a freshman in college right when it started kind of. I didn't have an at edu email address, but my wife who works at a university did so we use hers to sign up. I use my so I can spy on the football players on the beat. I covered but back in the day you used to be friends with just random people and I like became friends with some random dude in Chicago named Ari Wasserman.

I don't know why. And then like five years or seven or eight, whatever years later when I got on Twitter, that dude had at Ari Wasserman on Twitter. And I just messaged him and just said, hey dude, this is for my job. Do you mind if I just have that handle for me? Cause we are Facebook friends.

I still squat on it at Andy Staples. The only reason I did at Andy underscore Staples is that was my email address at work. And I was just used to typing that in, which is dumb. I should have just done at Andy Staples. Or I should just switch it now. But I'd have to delete the one account, then switch it. And I think that, too, there's muscle memory, too.

People have been adding you for years. Like, I mean, underscore staples is fine. Yeah, I think I'm okay with that. I think people are used to it. All right, before we go, one more thing. This video comes from Sam Crosston, the sports director at CNY Central. It is another reason why we love Fran Brown on this show.

Fran Brown is Syracuse's head football coach, had a great first year. This is Fran Brown on the quarterback competition at Syracuse. I don't think you're gonna hear another coach in America saying this. We'll have a quarterback soon. I ain't with all that weight.

And then I ain't got time to play mind games with my team for this half to like him and that half to like, now're going to pick a quarterback. We're going to run with it and y'all compete for two or three. He's going to be the guy. And so he said, nah, but we'll be fine though. Like we're going to be straight. What a simple concept play the quarterback you say is the best. Tell your team this guy's the number one guy and that's how we're going to roll.

Now you're going to lose somebody the transfer portal. I think Fran Brown understands that, but I, I, he's prioritizing his team working better over the political mind games that keep people from entering the transfer portal. I mean, I covered, uh, political mind games that tanked one of the most talented college football teams ever assembled. So I think this is probably the right way to go about it. Political mind games that went to the point where the starting quarterback didn't know they were starting till the opener, like 10 minutes before the opener.

Like that, we want to talk about how- I was standing on the field at Virginia Tech eating a turkey leg when Urban Meyer told Cardell he was going out. What turkey leg? Where'd I get the turkey leg? In the concourse. Is that like a thing at Virginia Tech? Hell yeah!

I didn't know that. Oh yeah, they're amazing. They're like the best turkey legs you ever had. That's electric. I don't know where the hell I was. I was upstairs being a loser. I know where I was. You want to hear?

We got time. I was, I was upstairs being a loser. I know where I was. You wanna hear? You got time. I was seeing somebody a little bit north of there and I got hammered with that person the night before and I drove down from the Northeast. After you sobered up of course. In the morning, yeah. But I had to wake up at six in the morning and I drove, cause that game started like at five'clock. I think or six o'clock p.m.

Oh, that game is at 8 p.m. Oh, it was the money night game Blacksburg from Boston that morning. Yeah. Oh my god. What a drive. Yeah. Yeah, that was it. That was a Labor Day game. So Whoo, that's quite a drive Boston, Blacksburg. Yeah, because I was in, I think it might have been like the Boston Marathon or something was happening in Boston. I have friends up there. And yeah, I just cut the vacation a little bit too close. So I wasn't gonna be, I wasn't overachiever.

And I remember it, I'll never forget. Like it was hot that day for some reason. And the parking lot for the media was like two miles away. It was an uphill walk. And I remember dying into the stadium. I do remember that I got there early, fortunately. And that was one of the ones like that. I think the SID at Virginia Tech made a mistake and gave me a field pass instead of the rest box pass. Oh, and, and so I'm like, well, I'm not gonna tell

anybody about this. I'm just going down to the field and going to enjoy this. But of course, I had to get a turkey leg. And game to be down on the field because we didn't know who the starting quarterback was going to be going. Yeah, correct. And I got to see the Braxton Miller spin at field level, which was pretty amazing. Where were you? What was your vantage point on that? On the Braxton Miller spin, I had walked over to the Ohio

State sideline. So I was I was just because you you can't be behind the bench. But you know the the the players were only allowed between the 35s, so it's probably like on the 30 yard line. Which one the one that he ran past? Or did you get watching from behind? I was watching from behind.

That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, it was incredible. One of the again one of the best spin moves ever in the history of the game. Yeah, that, it was incredible. One of the one again, one of the best spin moves ever in the history of the game. Yeah, that quarterback battle was insane. And maybe their best quarterback on the team wasn't a quarterback anymore, which is such a like, I kind of want to read the book on the 2015 Ohio State team. Like you were Doug Limerie's who you

know, guys who covered it, like go back and talk to those guys. I want the book. I mean, you can get those guys now, right? Like you could get Urban because he loves talking on the phone now. I don't know that he would love talking about that, though. Well, I think that he would admit that the 2015 Michigan State game was the biggest coaching blunder of his entire career. But I think he also might be open to talking about how

deep, like if you wanted to write or there's a big quarterback battle happening and you wanted to write a story of like mistakes that coaches could make during that, I bet you he would be open about, well, maybe we should have done this differently. Yeah, because that was that was such a strange year where you basically had a red zone quarterback for a time. I also I would love to get Dantonio to talk about the Michigan State Ohio State game that year. Yeah, I see if because I mean he's he's now been out for a while. Like his unfiltered like how shocked was he's like. Did you just sit there for the whole second and like they're not going to hand it to Zeke?

Like the thing that's unique about that quarterback battle is you had two quarterbacks who were very accomplished and played a lot in a national title run. Like, yes, I don't know that you have a lot of court like for JT to play the entire regular season and then in Cardale to come in and win all the playoff games. It's like, what do you do? Do you go with the person who got you there? Do you go to the person who won? Like it was a hard one.

And you had to give them both a fair shot. Like. Yeah. Because I remember where I was leaving Dallas and Bill Landis and I did this like Southern tour and we went to all these high schools in the South on the way back to, did a huge detour and went to every like major high school that Ohio State was recruiting players at in the South.

And like we were driving from Dallas to Houston after the national championship game. And we stopped off at some rest stop area when Cardale like was making, remember the Cardale announcement to come back? Like he had a whole thing in Cleveland. And like, it was like a commitment ceremony. And he's like, I'm coming back.

And we were just like, what the hell are they gonna do? And it felt like kind of bizarre because Cardale Jones probably could have had a pretty good height, Maybe even a higher draft spot stock than he ended up having Uh, just if he just left after the national title game. Yeah, yeah, right There was that was a whole thing and look at these pictures just being here like good job river Just having those pictures from 12 years ago locked and loaded. But yeah, quarterback battles are are certainly fun. And I don't even know if like 12 years ago, locked and loaded. But yeah, quarterback battles are certainly fun, and I don't even know if, like, we'll ever see one again like that, because the circumstances that led to that quarterback battle were so unique.

I also wonder, now, if you are a quarterback who you don't think is going to win the starting job, but they're stringing you along, do you force the action? Do you tell the coach, Hey, look, if it's not me, just tell me. Yeah, I'm out of here. And the coaching is not going to want to lose you. But it's going to be hard because you just leave. Like if you're it's kind of, it's kind of where McCord was. But what he didn't go through spring. He did it at the end of the season. Like, am I going to be the guy? And Ryan Day's like, I can't guarantee that. Yeah. And then McCord's like, I'm out.

Yeah. And I think, too, that players get a sense if they're the guy or not in practice. Even like, I just think that like the way that reps are split up and stuff, like you can get to get it. Then it's like a coach can lie and say, we don't know. But also, there's only a limit to how far a coach can lie because you want to get the reps for the player that's

going to start the most, or play the most. You don't want to do fake reps. I'll give you another one that I thought was maybe not handled correctly, probably for this very reason. Notre Dame, I remember Malik Zaire got hurt in the Virginia game. Deshaun Kaiser came in and was the start of the rest of the season. So the following year 2016, they have the Texas game as a season

opener, and they had clearly been splitting reps with the ones between Malik Zaire and Deshaun Kaiser the entire time. And Malik Zaire gets in the game and you're like, wait, why did they do this? This is so obvious. The one is so much better than the other one. Like, why didn't they just say, just John Kaiser's the guy and let's go. And that's the season they went for an eight. Like, imagine that if they just made the decision in the spring

to go with the guy who was obviously the better quarterback, like would that have changed something? Yeah, no, I'm with you. I'm with you. We shall find out. But get those questions to us at Andy underscore staples at Ari Wasserman, and he staples on three at gmail.com, Ari dot Wasserman at on three.com. Steve Wolfang tomorrow, talking Crutin, Jared Curtis, the number one QB in the class of 26

has announced that he will announce where he's going on Cinco de Mayo. It's electric. So we'll ask Steve what his favorite margarita is. We'll talk to him tomorrow.