Andy & Ari On3 - James Franklin has ALIGNMENT and a veteran QB; can Penn State take the next step?

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

Whataburger fans, it’s time to celebrate — the Mushroom Swiss Burger is BACK!And, honestly, it deserves a welcome party. Two juicy, all-beef patties, melty cheese and twolayers of perfectly grilled mushrooms bring the rich, hearty goodness. And let’s not forget thecreamy au jus sauce tying it all together like a perfect bite-sized symphony. But here’s the catch— it’s only here for a limited time. So if you love mushrooms, this one’s for you. Don’t be theperson wishing they got it after it’s gone. Grab yours today!(0:00-3:33) Intro: Discussing Penn State(3:34-5:12) Whataburger(5:13-29:11) Penn State Head Coach James Franklin Joins(29:12-32:36) James Franklin's Rules for Life(32:37-36:44) Ketchup on a Hotdog?(36:45-38:32) Whataburger(38:33-40:32) More Ketchup talk(40:33-54:38) Coastal Carolina's Free Concessions, Halloween Weekend(54:39-1:02:05) The Crown Basketball Tournament, Ari Buys a Car(1:02:06-1:06:55) Conclusion Penn State football coach James Franklin joins Andy and Ari to discuss what he learned from going through three rounds of the College Football Playoff and what he’s doing to try to make sure Penn State gets to the final round next time. He also reveals his one-question interview test (which Ari fails).  Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari WassermanProducer: River Bailey Interested in partnering with the show? Email [e-mail]

Welcome to Andy and Ari on three very special day guest today. Penn State coach James Franklin joins the show and Ari, it's a wide ranging conversation. And I was very intrigued by things that James Franklin said. Yeah, you know, it's interesting because James Franklin catches a lot of strays, sometimes even from me. James Franklin is one of the longestays, sometimes even from me. James Franklin is one of the longest tenured coaches in college football. And he just led Penn State to doing something that I didn't realize hadn't been done

since they joined the Big Ten. Which is an interesting framing discussion. I know you have a column up on On3 right now about the alignment and all the things that we are discussing. But it's like, where do you actually place James Franklin in the pantheon of college football coaches? Because I had him very underranked and it made people mad. And I think that you had him higher. And I feel like he's a very, I don't know, like, controversial. He's a very divisive figure in the sport. And I'm, you know what I actually have no pulse for and would love to know? Like, where are Penn State fans with him?

Because I know when he got his extension, they were not 100% on board with that. Are more people, have they come around? Or are people still iffy on him in state college specifically? I get the sense that it's a split. I get the sense that it's a split. I get the sense of this. But my thing on James Franklin is he does the thing that most coaches cannot do. And that's when every game he's supposed to win. Yeah. But he has struggled to win the games that he's not supposed to win. He's got to fix that. And we've had that discussion with other coaches. I mean, Jim Harbaugh, that was the albatross around

his neck for a long time. And then it finally broke and... Jim Collison The thing that I, and I think we could have a 2-minute conversation about this before the interview, that has always been interesting about Penn State is that we are uncertain. Or there's a disagreement, not just between you and me, but I think with everybody of like what Penn State is supposed to be and for the majority of Penn State's existence, they were in the same side of the conference in the same division as Ohio State and Michigan and Michigan State. Not the majority of Penn State's existence, for the majority of time. No, the majority of the Big Ten.

That's what I mean. Sorry. But even in the modern era, like they were in the Big 10 East for what? A decade plus? And they were being directly judged by their results against programs that have higher ceilings. So that is the thing that makes it a very difficult. If I'm a Penn State fan, that pisses me off to hear you say that because there's no reason oh like there's no logical reason Ohio State or Michigan should have a higher ceiling in Penn State. It's in a state that has players and I'm happy that that's the same school as them. It has the you know a very good football history just like them like Like that's why that pisses them off.

And that's what makes something that James Franklin, you'll hear him say in this interview, very intriguing. Because I think we've seen it with Michigan in the past five years where something changed. And he says something has changed at Penn State. We'll have to see if that's true. But some of the things that have happened suggest he's right. So let's get to the interview.

Before we talk to James Frank, I got to tell you about what Ari and I are doing this weekend. We're headed to San Antonio. Whataburger bringing us to San Antonio, that's right. We're going to be broadcasting live on Saturday in San Antonio before the big basketball games and. We'll have I believe we have the water burger food truck. So come join us eat with us and oh by the way, if you're visiting a water

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It is only for a limited time, so don't be the person wishing they got it after it's gone. Grab yours today. And oh, by the way, April 4th through the 7th, double points when you order a water burger, double loyalty points. Get mushroom Swiss burgers, get double points.

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All right, James Franklin has brought home a lot of Ws in his career. Maybe not all of the Ws that his fan base would prefer. Let's talk about that with James. We are joined now by Penn State head coach James Franklin. And I've told him because my favorite thing that he does in his press conferences is occasionally just break in with questions for the people asking him the questions. So he's free to anytime you have a question, James, you just pop in. I'll ask the football stuff. But you know, if we're going the wrong

direction, you set us right. Gotcha on it. I guess with I got to start because you went through three rounds of the playoff last year and you had some crazy stuff happen where your backup quarterback goes in the portal you don't have him what did you learn from from that experience of all of the things that happened to you in December January yeah so I guess of couple things. First thing is longest season in Penn State history, right? 16 games, 113 games. You're dealing with the transfer portal,

or the transfer portal is about to open and guys have got to make decisions. You're dealing with that at the end of the season while you're still trying to compete. You're basically trying to put contracts together at the same time that you're trying to keep everybody focused on the task at hand. So very, very challenging. And I think there's some things with that that everybody would agree that we're gonna have to look at

from a college football scheduling or calendar perspective that just don't make sense, right? You should, everybody should be competing for a national championship. And then when the season's over, then decisions have to be made and rightfully so. So those things, I think we're very, very challenging, but I was, I was very pleased with how our staff handled it. You know, Bo Pribula was our backup quarterback and Beau's dream school was to come to Penn State.

Um, grew up in the state of Pennsylvania, was a Trace McSorley fan. Uh, this was his dream and you know, Beau did not want to leave, but as a quarterback, there's only so many spots and schools that he was interested in were filling up and he had to choose, you know, am I going to go into transfer portal stay? And the problem is, it's not like we had a hard and fast rule where, you know, we couldn't, you know, look around. The problem is he wanted to go on visits. And I don't know how you can go on visits and then, you know, be our backup quarterback in this type of game. So we tried to kind of work it out. I even talked about calling schools for him. But he was put in a really difficult position and so were we based on the calendar. And I just don't feel like any kid should be put in that position.

James, actually I felt for Bo and I felt for you during that time. And looking back too, he wasn't just a backup quarterback. in that position. James actually was I felt for Bo and I felt for you during that time and you know looking back too he wasn't just a backup quarterback he made a lot of important plays for you throughout the year and you find yourself in a one possession game with a trip to the national championship game on the line like theoretically speaking he could have come in and done something in one play in that game and swung the whole thing and I know that you're a big thinker and you like to propose these things but you obviously, that's one major issue in a laundry list of issues with the calendar. What is your, have you come up with a calendar in your head of how you

would like, like it to go or how coaches in your position would like it to be? Yeah, I think, you know, I'm also on the board of the AFCA and have been for a while. And I think your point is a good one. It's funny, because I think, I think Bo got some criticism. I know we got some criticism, but people say, Well, just let him play. There's other schools that have done it. But I don't know how you have him play when he's, you know, missing days of practices to go on visits to other schools and things like that. And he felt like he had to make an educated decision. So it's hard to do it without seeing the places. I think that the conversations that I've heard in the Big Ten, the conversations I've been a part of at the AFCA, the American Football

Coaches Association, is I think everybody thinks the best model is to have one transfer portal and have it, you know, have it after the spring. That would allow everybody to get through their season. It'll allow you to have one academic calendar. And then there's been some talk about maybe moving spring football into the summer, more like an OTA model. So now your roster is completely set. And now you can get some practices in leading up to training camp and start getting prepared, because there's a lot of programs that are going to be practicing a ton of guys during spring

ball who are not even going to be a part of their roster, you know, come the fall. So at the end of the day, I just think it's, it's important, right? We got to be thinking about, number one, what's in the best interest of college football? Number two, what's in the best interest of the student-athlete?. 1, what's in the best interest of college football? No. 2, what's in the best interest of student-athlete? But then also, what's in the best interest of the universities and the programs and the athletic departments as well? And it really should be looked at holistically. You know, coaches shouldn't be thinking about it just from, from, you know, their programs' perspective. I think that's what got us into this mess in the first place, us into this mess in the first place, when coaches were denying players being able to transfer from one school to another. But we went from one extreme to the other. And more times than not, you'd love for the pendulum to even back out. And, and right now that has not happened. And I don't see it happening. So I don't think either extreme is

in anybody's best interest. happening. So I don't think either extreme is in anybody's best interest. So one of the reasons for the Bo Pribula situation was that the Drew Aller decided he was going to come back for this year. And now that you've got Drew in another spring practice, and he's working with, you know, all of his old teammates, new teammates. What can he do better than he did in a year where he took you to the semi-finals? Yeah. So let me say one more thing about our, your previous, our previous discussion about the transfer portal. What

about this? So Drew announces he's coming back. I know where you're going. I know where you're going. Bo now goes into the transfer portal to look around to leave because he's leaving because Drew's coming back. Drew goes on fire during the playoff run and now turns into not only a first round draft choice, which he was already projected to be, but now a top five pick. And he felt the pressure to make an announcement. And now all of a sudden, we're in a position where we lost both of them. That was a realistic concern for me and Drew and his family. So that that could

have been even, even crazier. even crazier. We had multiple discussions on the show about that, James. Yeah. After we played so well. I wrote a call about it. NFL draft analysts drew Allers a top 10 pick. It wasn't a heavy quarterback class this year either. Especially after you played in the Big Ten championship game

against Oregon, played really well. Had that throw where the guy was hanging on and he makes a throw and then ends up for a touchdown. So that was a major concern of mine. But what was your second question? I apologize. Oh no, and I'm glad you brought that up because the other piece of that, and you brought it up a little bit,

but with Bo, like when he's picked Missouri, they've then committed to probably financially to him at that point. And if he keeps playing for you, then what, and he gets hurt. What happens? It's in James' scenario. What if Bo pops back? Yeah, it's crazy. That happens, too. I mean, I mean, who's the employer to leave and go back? Yeah, the whole thing is, is crazy. But you know, what I did is I ended up talking to our Leadership Council, and I ended up talking to our coaches about it. And, you know, obviously, like everybody, you kind of have rules in place of how you typically handle things. But at the end of the day, you know, each scenario is handled on a case-by-case

scenario. And again, making decisions that are in the best interest of the student athlete and the best interest of our football program. And I don't think there's anything, there's not anyone in that scenario that didn't wanna try to find a way to make it work. Bo wanted to make it work, his family wanted to make it work, and so did we.

But the longer it went, the pressure on him being able to find a spot, you know, I think, I think, you know, put him in the pressure cooker where he felt like he had no other choice but, but had to make that decision. That was a tough conversation, very emotional. So my question, before you ask the better question, and I told you, when you ask the questions, it gets interesting. What can Drew do to improve upon an already good year last year? Yeah, so, you know, I get these types of questions a lot

and I don't really give the answer that I think people want me to give. But it's like a little bit of everything, right? It's not one, I think when you get to the point where we are, top five program, you know, last three years, I've won 10 or more games every single year. That hasn't happened at Penn State since I think 1980 to 1982, a three-year span like that, obviously before joining the Big Ten. It's the same with us, like, you know, it's, you're gonna have to get a little bit better in every area. It's not one specific thing.

And I think it's the same thing with Drew. Drew, you look at him, he had a very unusual recruiting process. He started out, I think when we were recruiting, he was like a three-star guy, then moved up late to a four-star guy. And then at the end, he was a five-star recruit. And some people had him as the number one quarterback

in the country. Kind of unusual process in today's day and age, specifically with a quarterback. But I think it's been the same way since he's been on campus. As a freshman, he was our backup quarterback, got a chance to play some significant time, made a significant jump as a sophomore, made another significant jump as a junior.

You look at his numbers, you look at his wins, you look at his completion percentage, you look at his touchdown interception ratio, he was off the charts. And this year took a big step in terms of his ability to make plays with his legs. Last year, or two years ago, he was 6'5", 242 pounds. This year, he was like 6'5", 235. And, you know, was able to keep people honest

with your legs, which is such a big part of college football and even the NFL now. And I just think that's, that's the next thing for him to do is continue growing in all those areas. He's an extremely driven and motivated guy. He wants to be great. He approaches it the right way, both mentally and physically. And I think he's just going to continue to take steps in the right direction this year. I also think having one of the better offensive lines in college football, having two running backs rush for 1,000 yards last year coming back,

although we lost Tyler Warren, I still think we got one of the better tight end rooms in America. And we're going to need a little bit more production at the wide receiver room, which is why we went into the transfer portal, took two guys. Not that we don't believe in the guys that we have in our locker room, but we just need to raise the competition in that room,

because that's going to be an important piece for us moving forward. A few more games in the passing game, specifically in that room. Um, cause that's going to be important piece for us moving forward a few more games in the passing game, specifically in big games. James, I was at the 2018 game where you gave the famous great to elite speech after the game. Um,

and you guys are now coming off of a season in which you were in the semi final for the first time and were a possession away from the national championship on the other side of the coin. There are people who criticize you and your record against top five opponents. I'm wondering from your perspective with all the players you've got coming back, Drew, you know, I was going to take a step forward. The two running backs, Katron Allen, you know, who's on your team. Uh, where do you stand in your mind in terms of great to elite in terms of where your program is and, uh, what do you think is next for Penn State? And to elite in terms of where your program is? And what do you think is next

for Penn State? And what's the mood of the building there right now? Yeah, I think that's a great question and a fair question. The first thing I'll say is, you know, I'm in a situation where, and when I made that, that comment after that game, I'm in a situation now where, for really the first time here at Penn State, we have the alignment that I've been pounding on the table for for 12 years. That's from the board to our president, Neely Bendapudi, who's been phenomenal, to our athletic director, Pat Kraft, who played football in the Big Ten and understands what it takes. And you've seen that type of commitment with some of the things that we've been able to do. And then the head football coach. You know, it's kind of unusual. I've been here 12 years, which is unusual, just that alone. But I've had three different ADs and three different presidents. And we're in a great position right now. So when you talk about alignment, we have that in a way that we've never had that before.

I think the next thing is consistency. We've been one of the most consistent programs in the country. And to be honest with you, probably the most consistent that Penn State's been since joining the Big Ten. If you go back and look at all the data and look at all the analytics, you know, we've done a phenomenal job, and it starts with that. The next step is obviously to be able to win these games. You know, we've been in a conference, you know, with Ohio State, who we have tremendous respect for, and Michigan, who we have tremendous respect for, we were

all on the same side at the conference. And then obviously now adding Oregon into the equation. You know, us in the SEC, I've been a head coach in the SEC, been a head coach in the Big Ten, so I know what it looks like. And that's the next step for us. And trust me, there's nobody that knows that, you know, better than me. And to be honest with you, Drew, you know, the quarterback gets probably too much praise when things go well and too much criticism when things go bad, and same with the head coach. So we understand that. And I'm not going to allow people, though, not recognize the consistent level of success that we've had, that 99% of the programs in the country would die to have, but also totally recognize and own that we have to take that next step in our biggest games, in our biggest moments. that next step in our biggest games in our biggest moments.

Well, and you mentioned the receiver room because that's where it felt like that was the piece. If you had that piece last year, you might be playing in that next game and you go out and you get Kyron Hudson who you played against from USC and Devante Ross who was Troy's number one receiver last year. How did you guys scout that position in terms of trying to figure out what you're going to bring in to pair with a great tight end room, great running backs, a great returning quarterback? Yeah, so a couple things. Let me first talk about those guys and then talk about the process.

So with Hudson, obviously him doing it in our conference, that helps you feel like it will translate. Obviously made a spectacular catch against LSU, one handed catch, is a big, strong, mature guy, played at modern day, he's just been playing big time football for a long time and is extremely mature. And that jumped out to us right away, and it seemed to be a good fit. You know, when you talk about Ross, the thing that we felt good about that it would translate

is I got a ton of respect for Iowa on the defensive side of the ball and on special teams. Troy played Iowa on the road, obviously, and they were beating Iowa at halftime. And Ross had over 150 yards, I think. He had three touchdowns, two receiving touchdowns, a punt return for a touchdown. So against one of the better defenses

and one of the better special teams, teams in the country, he had that production. So we were excited about that and thought he could help. But in terms of the process, it's difficult. Let's be honest. If you're going to try to do it, you know, under the rules and how we're all supposed to be operating, the best players in the transfer portal, most of them have made the decision before they've ever gone into the transfer portal. People can call it tampering or whatever it may be, but that's happening. So it is very difficult to go into the transfer portal and get the players you want to get if you're doing it by the rules. Either that or the price tag is through the roof.

So it is challenging. Where we've had success is guys that we recruited out of high school that we already have a really good relationship with, that we knew them and their families. Because here's the other issue. How do you get to know a kid well enough in a week or two? These, a lot of these decisions are happening in a week. So either they've been talking to people for multiple weeks before that illegally, or you're making

a decision to bring a guy into your locker room that you don't know very well. And we work very hard to create our culture in our locker room. And I'm sensitive to that. So those are the challenges that come with trying to go to the transfer portal and improve your roster in some areas that are needed. James, you're, I know we're talking a lot about Penn State, but in your coaching history, you have back-to-back 9-win seasons at Vanderbilt. I think it was the first time in program history. They were in the top 25 for multiple years. And I'm wondering with all the evolution in the sport right now,

and being a coach who has gotten a lot out of a place that traditionally hasn't had much, I'm wondering, you know, with these new rules and all those, like, do you think that there are, is an avenue from your perspective that some of the teams that are perceived to be at the bottom of the food chain might be just more difficult to beat moving forward than they've been in the past? And how would that look like to you?

Yeah, so, you know, at Vanderbilt, we went to three bowl games in three years. I think they'd only ever been to bowl, four bowl games ever in their history. They had been the one bowl game in the 30 years before we got there. So we're very proud of what we're able to do there. I also think the models changed so much that it's hard to compare and contrast because, you know, now with the trans reporter, you legitimately can flip your roster in a year. And we've seen that now in college football. I'm going to talk about a program, and I mean this with, with total respect, but I think SMU's a really good example. You know, we played SMU, really good team, really good coach, really good season. We played them in the playoffs, and SMU, you know, really had not been overly relevant since the death penalty. And they've done a really good job of investing. They've done a really good job of building facilities.

We went and visited them when I was at Vanderbilt, talking about a stadium project. We went out and visited them because a similar type school. But I also think NIL is a really good example. SMU, you think of their alumni base, you know, where they're located, the money that they have, and they've been able to really embrace the new model of college football

and use the strengths of SMU, of that program, of that university, of that region, and you know, they are right in the thick of things right now. So I think that's an example that can be used. And there's other programs that can do it as well, but there needs to be a commitment. And the reality is with NIL and money being a factor now, if you're at a school that's got deep pockets and has alumni that can make an impact and are

invested, you can, you can make some, you know, changes quickly. And that was not the case 5 or 10 years ago when you're trying to turn your roster over. You just didn't have the ability to do those types of things. And again, I want this to come off, I mean this as a total compliment to SMU, their university, their football program, because they've done a phenomenal job. So what is next? We had these discussions on the show the last few months about the general manager position and what that means at different places. Now you have Andy Frank, who's done an amazing job with your personnel over the last 12 years he's been with you at Penn State. But what what comes next? Do you have to hire like a capologist? Or how does that work?

So Andy's actually been with me for 15 years. He was at Vanderbilt when I got the job. So he's been with me the whole time. Andy's got a engineering degree from Princeton. So really, really smart guy. And that's really, it's funny because before GMs were things, that's what he really was for us. Cause Andy's not the recruiting guy that gets up in the front of the room and big personality

and forming relationships with recruits. That's not how we have it structured and how he operates. It's funny, we would bring people in from other programs and our recruiting model was different, you know, with how Andy had run things. So it actually fit this model a little bit better. So for us, we were interested in going out and maybe hiring someone like that from the NFL, but you're also talking about, you know, basically something

that's really kind of started out of nowhere. And where are you getting these people from? Are you getting them from the NFL? Are they guys that are out of work? Are they people that have tremendous experience? And obviously there's four or five that have been hired that are making significant money. And that's been attractive. So it's poured a lot of people kind of into this role now and created some opportunities for people that are doing it. So I think the important thing is not going to hire somebody just so you can say you hired somebody. You got to find the

right fit. And sometimes you can have somebody that, you know, is a former player or an alumni of the university that is going on at NFL and done some really good things and wants to come back and have an impact. And you're able to get a really high-end person in that position. But for us, we got, we got really good people here, and we weren't able to find the right fit that made sense. So we'll keep looking. We were able to bring back one of our former players. And he's done a really good job of working in this area and he was actually working as a player rep in terms of representing players as an agent. So he gives us a different perspective in that room as well and I think that's been valuable. But everybody's kind of looking at this and

trying to put together the best they can from a personnel department. And we've done the same thing. One more question, and we wrap up with this one every time. James Franklin, what is your rule for life? So since I watch your guys show and I know your guys' rules base around predominantly food, I'm going to do the same thing. So I have a real problem. So my wife is from the West Coast. She's from Spokane, Washington. And I am from basically just outside of Northeast Philadelphia.

I have a whole issue with hot dogs. So like the only thing that's appropriate to put on a hot dog is obviously mustard. If you want to go mustard and relish, that's fine. If you want to go mustard and onions, that's fine. I'm even okay with chili. But I have a major issue with my wife. She puts ketchup on a hot dog. And this has actually become a big part of my interview process. We interview coaches and staff. I'll ask them that question. If they say they put ketchup on a hot dog, it's over. Cause it's an inappropriate condiment to put on a hot dog. And everybody clearly understands that.

But before we get off, I'd like to, like I'm worried about my guy right here, his facial expression. So I want to hear what you guys think. I have a follow up. I will tell you what happened James, I'm hearkening back to when I was the ball boy. My dad was a high school assistant coach

at Coral Shores High School in the Keys. I'm like third, fourth grade. And so it's after a game, concession stand calls me over, says, here's the hot dogs we didn't sell. Go see if the coaches want them. And I remember taking one and handing it to one of the older assistant coaches. And it had mustard on it. And he's like, I'd rather eat dirt than have mustard on

hot dog. I was like, What is wrong with you? I'm a third grader. I can't say this. Thank you. You should have. So do you have any follow up questions during the interview process if the person does put ketchup or they It's over. It's over. Like like i could never work at that stage jim knolls if jim knolls would have said he put ketchup on a hot dog it would have been over but you're avoiding this are like what what do you got i eat ketchup on my hot dog oh i knew it i could just tell about your yeah i know

i know i'm firing him to right now right andy is there any way we can just like... Well, here's the thing. Did you tell us what you did to me? I was covering a Michigan game with Andy and they had chicken nuggets. Tell them what happened. You were putting ketchup on chicken nuggets, which is just blasphemy. Oh, so he just puts ketchup on everything.

I like ketchup. Yeah, I like ketchup too, but you don't just put it on everything. Oh, french fries. Like, God intended. French fries. Just so you know, the worst part is my wife has got my daughters eating ketchup on hot dogs. See, this is what's interesting. You won't hire somebody to work for you who does this, but you'll share your life with them? Well, you think I got an option here? You think I can like, my wife and daughters. My wife brainwashed me.

But you didn't know at the time to ask before the dating commenced? That's a fair point. That's how we got here, though. That's my point. That's how we got to this. I would go to work, my wife would spend all day long brainwashing my daughters on ketchup on a hot dog. Ridiculous. Well, if I ever get a chance to work in your organization, I will answer that question correctly. You're qualified. I'm not. You're good. You're qualified. He's not.

That's exactly right. James Franklin, thank you so much. Thanks for being here. Appreciate it. Oh, Ari. You were heated. Can we let the audience in on what happened after this? I am so mad that I hit stop record because James Franklin did not stop there. That conversation went on

for another solid five minutes. He had a meeting he had to go to and he's carrying the laptop around the Penn State football offices, yelling at Ari about ketchup on a hot dog. The thing that irritates me about this is, like if you do weird things with your food and if people do weird things with their food and it irritates you, like that makes sense. But like the vast majority of people use ketchup on a hot dog.

Like you're attacking a very regular activity. So like whether or not you like it or not, whatever. But like it's not an odd thing to do. And like to be appalled by it is bizarre because even in hot dog commercials, they have ketchup on them. Like it's a very regular thing to do. even in hot dog commercials, they have ketchup on them. Like it's a very regular thing to do. And it's like to me, when you think about the reason

ketchup even exists, I think that there are three food items that come to mind, french fries, burgers and hot dogs. So it's like, okay, yeah, I put ketchup on my hot dog. Why is that weird? As pointed out, you also put ketchup on chicken nuggets. You are not the authority on this. I love ketchup. I think I would have. I mean, you're put ketchup on chicken nuggets. You are not the authority on this. I love ketchup.

I think I would have... I mean, you're the authority on ketchup. I'm a ketchup abuser. So, like, I don't know if I'm the perfect example to try to get across the point of, like, if you're going to judge people for doing something, maybe die on a hill that's, like, less common. Like, I don't know. Like, it's a very regular thing to do, and a lot of people do it.

So, yeah, that's... It's a very regular thing to eat mayonnaise a lot of people do it. So, um, it's a very regular thing to eat mayonnaise on anything. And I hate it more than anything in the whole world and think people who eat it are crazy. So, but you don't have, but you don't have a, a hard line rule in the sand of like anybody who puts mayonnaise on a hamburger is an idiot or is it's not, yeah, it's like, and then there's like, this is the thing that you do. And somebody in the chat is doing, and you did this to me when we covered

the Ohio state, Michigan game in 2019, they had chicken fingers and I put ketchup on my plate to dip it in the chicken finger, and then you said, I used to eat ketchup with chicken fingers when I was a kid, and then I grew up. It's like, it tastes good. Like what does growing up have to do with it? It doesn't taste that good. It tastes better if you dip them in mustard or honey mustard. Honey mustard wasn't an option.

I love honey mustard. Mustard was. You think that dipping chicken fingers in mustard is less psychotic than ketchup? Dipping chicken fingers in mustard is delicious. That's a weird, like you're, see we're going off the rails here. Like that's like ketchup is literally on sale

to dip fried things into. Like that, and if you really want me to take it a step further, I would put ketchup on my steak, if I could, without being ridiculed. Like I love ketchup. I'm staying quiet because I want to make sure all of that audio gets captured properly. So when I put the clip out later, people

know what a psychopath you are. Yeah, I mean, like, here's the thing, I, I understand that it's taboo, especially because you and I have eaten at some pretty nice steak houses, right? Like, and like if a steak is a high cut of meat, high quality piece of meat and is cooked well and seasoned well, like you don't want to be overwhelming flavor profile

of that nice piece of meat to be ketchup, which is why I don't do it. And I understand that concept. But I think that like ridiculing people for putting ketchup on children's foods, like hot dogs, hamburgers and chicken nuggets is insane. Like it's like you're not a food expert, because you don't because you think that hot dogs should be eaten a certain way. It's like food experts don't even think about hot dogs. even think about hot dogs. Like, you know who is a food expert? Steve in San Antonio. The spicy ketchup from Water Burger is amazing,

and it is the best thing to dip your fries in. The best thing. And remember, Water Burger, bringing us to San Antonio, Steve asking, can we come see you guys in San Antonio? Yes, you can come see us on Saturday. We're gonna be near the Alamo. We'll get you the exact location later in the week.

And yeah, if you wanna come by, absolutely come by. We will be having some fun taste test. Ari. Do you know what's the best thing about the Whataburger ketchup thing though, is that they sell it in tech. I don't know if this is everywhere, but in Texas in grocery stores,

the spicy Whataburger ketchup is on the shelves next to Heinz. Like you can buy it in like a plastic thing that you squeeze. See, and here's the thing. I am a massive ketchup French fry dipper. Like there's very little in the world better to me than French fries dipped in good ketchup, like the water burger spicy ketchup.

Like I would like to have some people fly in from Belgium, you know, those psychos that dip their fries in mayonnaise and have them come to San Antonio and visit us. And I will have them put some water burger fries in spicy ketchup and show them the error of their ways. Like they'll go back to Belgium and be like, guys, we got it all wrong. Yeah, we're doing it wrong. The spicy ketchup thing is really, really good. And I think it's kind of bizarre that it's not a common offering everywhere. So the fact that Whataburger's got it on lock is,

I mean, that's like a literal, like I'm a big enough ketchup fan to say that their ketchup is a reason to go there, like even as much as the food. So the thing that I think is interesting with you and the mayonnaise thing is that overseas mixing mayonnaise and ketchup together and making a fry sauce is a very common thing. And you know where they do that a lot? Yeah, here it's very common too. It's called Thousand Island Dressing and it freaking sucks. Yeah, I know, but they don't serve Thousand Island Dressing in the pumps at fast food restaurants. Okay. It's not that common, but they do in Utah.

Do you know, Utah, they have fry sauce. That's what it's called. Yeah. And it's delicious. Yeah, because they didn't realize they just invented Thousand Island Dressing. Yeah. Whatever. Thousand Island Dressing is delicious. So like, just because you have a weird, like a weird aversion to one of the most delicious things on earth doesn't mean that like you're the problem here. Like at least like when I'm like wrong, I can acknowledge I'm the problem. Or at least I know that like I'm- You just said you'd put ketchup on a steak.

But I have enough respect for the steak and the people I'm eating with to not do it. I think it should be allowable. Like you know we have mutual combat states where if two guys are fighting, like they can't press charges against one another. I believe that if you order a steak in a fancy steakhouse and then you put ketchup on it, the chef should be allowed to come out and slap you in the face. See, the thing that's illegal repercussions whatsoever is that if you were at a fancy steakhouse, putting any type of sauce on its taboo, right? It doesn't just stop at ketchup. Like if you put A1 on a nice piece of meat, you're also you're also ridiculed. Correct. Well, they would like it if you paid $8 for their au poivre that they made special for you. But yeah. Um, so I, I actually think that steak is very good, uh, without it. So like, I don't ever miss it, but you know, like when you order steak at like Texas roadhouse, I would dip that shit and catch up all day. Like that's like, how dare you right in front of you, Texas roadhouse

stakes are just basically like eating a leather. Multiple Texas roadhouse stakes. Like I'm telling you right now, they don't need any sauce. They do a great job. Great job. Yeah. Ari, a place where they do put ketchup on hot dogs, at least according to the photographic evidence

we saw yesterday, is Conway, South Carolina. Conway, South Carolina, of course, home to Coastal Carolina. So there's a deal that they're planning on for this football season. I don't know how long this is going to last. Roll the video River. What's up boss?

Hey, how's it going? Good. What's the damage? Free. Free. Well, what about for this? Free as well. Free.

All the free. Do you want some nachos? Yeah. Free too. All free. All free. Free. Can I get nachos? Yeah. Free too. All free. All free. Free. Can I get 50 of these? Yeah. Free.

Free. What about a drink? All of it free. Free. Have two drinks. Drinks? And a hot dog. Yeah. Hot dogs free too. All free. There you go. Free.

Free. Sweet. That's right, Till Nation. This fall in Brooks Stadium, every fan, every game, always free. Free concessions, popcorn, nachos, hot dog, fountain drinks, and water for every fan this fall. Come out to Brooks Stadium, get your tickets now and cheer on the shots. Go shots. All right. So that's Chance Miller. He's the athletic director at Coastal Carolina. Free concessions. Free. All the hot dogs you want, all the nachos you want, all the sodas, waters.

Free. Ari, do we have the ability to zoom onto graphics? River? Because there's something interesting in this picture that I want everyone to see. No, but I can blow it up for you. There's ketchup. There's ketchup on that hot dog in the photo. Interesting. OK, you're gonna let this go or can we talk about this incredible deal that is being offered by Coastal Carolina right now? You think you were gonna put that up there and I wasn't gonna say anything like do you not know me? You think I was just

gonna let that slide? I mentioned it! I teased it going into the video! Okay, you can talk about this now because we do have a lot to talk about. I'm not gonna wet an opportunity to bang my point. That's who I am as a human. It's actually a toxic trait in my relationships. I bring things up from later earlier on with later when it's relevant. So, okay. Sorry. Yeah, I'm sure that goes really well for you when you're arguing with your wife.

It doesn't. Okay. Let's talk about this because oh, there's the ketchup on the hot dog. Oh, apparently popcorn too. Okay. So this is an incredible deal. I am. Very excited about this already. We probably can't get to one of the Saturday Coastal Carolina games. But on October 30th, they're playing Marshall at home. It's a Thursday night. We need to go.

We need to go and see how many hot dogs we can put down in one night. Can I map the weekend out for you? You want me to map out a glorious weekend? All right. So we convene Wednesday in the greater Myrtle Beach area. Like we find like somebody with a squatted Chevy Tahoe to drive us around because that's how you drive around Myrtle Beach. And we just have the greatest night in one of the trashiest beach towns in America. And then on Thursday. We hydrate well.

And then we are at this game. And we are downing as many hot dogs as we can. We're not I mean, we're embracing our inner Joey chestnuts. We go we go as fans. Like we walk into Oh, yeah, we're not covering this game. Yeah, we're not interview. I don't know if we're gonna be in a position where we could speak after the game. So I don't know if we could interview anybody bluntly ask you this. And I know that your stomach has changed since you became a skinny person.

But like how many hot dogs do you think you actually could put down? Oh, it's not many now. Now in the old days let's say they open the stands 90 minutes before kick. So we got a solid four and a half hours in the stadium. I think I could have probably eaten. 35 to 40 hot dogs during that period. I think I could have done that now. I don't think I need our dogs in. In a five hour period, you think? I'm not doing it like Joey Chestnut, like I'm not dunking it in water.

I'm actually trying to enjoy it and eat it normally. I think that's what I could have done. No way you could put down 40 hot dogs in four hours. There's no way. Not even in your prime. That's even more than, so like I went to Chompy's in Phoenix over the weekend. It's a Jewish deli out there and it's really good. And I once saw Andy eat an entire mile high sandwich, which is two halves of a corned beef pastrami sandwich. It's literally like the size

of your head. Then he ate eight sliders that were on challah bread that were corned beef. And then I ate your fries. And it was the most I've ever seen any human being eat in a single sitting. And I still think 40 hot dogs was more food than that. I think you're probably right. But I think it stretched over that amount. Now, the problem is, you're going to hit a point. And this is, we did this with the nuggets.

When I tried to eat as many nuggets as I could during a show and I thought I could do 100 and I only did 61. There's a point where you're just done and you're gonna need hours and hours and hours to recover. Right. So I don't know if I can get nuggets. I know I couldn't do it now. I mean, if you're talking about the bun too,

you're probably saying that every hot dog is probably the equivalent of 10 nuggets. So you probably would stop at 10 hot dogs at most. Like 40 is insane think I could eat more than five. Like I'm not a volume eater. No, this is your dream though, cause this is like the ultimate trash food. Yeah, so what I would do is, you want, we'll go there and we'll do a challenge

and we'll see how many hot dogs you can eat. And then my challenge will be how many different types of cuisine can I eat? Like how many types? Cause I want the nachos, I want the corn. Yeah, you gotta eat the And then my challenge will be how many different types of cuisine can I eat? Like how many types? Because I want to hear you. Yeah, you got to eat the nachos and the popcorn. And so we do that. Obviously, film lots of videos there. And then we haul ass back to Florida, you spend Halloween at my house. And you know how big they do Halloween in my neighborhood. Yeah, people get lit in your neighborhood, don't they? That's exactly right.

And then the next day, Florida plays George in Jacksonville. Let's make this happen. Let's do this. Okay. Well, the only thing that I have to make sure of is that trick or treating for my daughter is on a different night than that Thursday, which it usually is Friday it's a Friday It's probably not usually usually trick or treating is like three days before or the following week after it's never like on

Oh for the little kids, so they're not run over by the kids. I got you Yeah, the little kid Halloween trick-or-treating is a little bit different and it's usually 45 minutes So but like that's an important thing for me. So but like I do think that that would be a blast and I would love to do it. But you know, it also like the stadium hot dogs are the best hot dogs because I do. We think this deal will still exist. By October 30, I think it'll make it through the first few home games?

This deal is to get people into the door to buy beer, right? That's the point. That's my first thought. Producer River and I were going over the plan. And I need to give Chance Miller a call and just get the deets on this, like the pure details. Because I have had conversations with folks. Josh Brooks, who's the AD at Georgia, they reduced their concession prices a few years ago

because they did a study and kind of found out that the jacked up soda prices, if you just make them normal soda prices, you will make the same amount of money based on volume. So people are insulted when they get charged six to seven to eight dollars for a Coke. Because this is also the problem in a movie theater, right? Yes. They tell you that, or you can go get a ticket now for 15 bucks or whatever it is, but the largest margins in movie theater aren't the prices of the tickets,

it's how much you pay at the concession stand. And like if you go to the movie theater and you buy a popcorn, a nacho, and a drink or two, you're out 35 bucks. Like, and it's like, it's to the point where people don't do it anymore. And I think that there is like a, like I'm the type of person and I think that this is bad, but like when I'm buying food and I'm in public,

like I don't think about, it's like, that's just part of the deal. Like, you know where you are, like it's part of it, you know. We have started thinking a lot more about it as the prices have gone up. But when you start getting into like $12, $13 for a soda, Britt and I went to Shane Gillis at American Airlines, which is where the Mavs play a few weeks, was it a month ago? And we got two beers or a beer and she got a wine or something, two taco dinners and like a popcorn or something when we got there and I think it was like a hundred bucks.

And maybe it was a lot of it was the booze but like even if a beer is $20 and I mean it's just like we could have gone to a nice steak dinner. So like I'm reading here. I believe beer is five bucks at Coastal Carolina. Producer Rivers telling us is 16 bucks for a beer at Neyland Stadium at Tennessee. Five bucks for beer with unlimited hot dogs. And oh my God, we're gonna have to do this. I mean, like, you know, I've never seen a game there. But I heard that it gets pretty rowdy. Like this is a pretty good way to make it rowdy. Oh, yeah. I've only been there for practice, so I'd love to see a game there. I'm very excited. We got to make this happen. Are you worried about it? Andy is like the worst part of our job. And there are very few bad aspects of it. We are very lucky.

But the thing that I am remorseful as it pertains to being in this position is I no longer can go to games and just enjoy them. Like as a fan. You know what I mean? Like we get to sit in the stands, drink beer, you don't got to take notes or what's your angle or all the things that you have to consider when we're up there. And just like take in a game and tailgate. Like when's the last time you got hammered at a tailgate for a college football game? Has it been three decades? you got hammered at a tailgate for a college football game? Has it been three decades? Yeah, yeah, because I can't. Like I have, and I've had people offer me stuff when I'm a game working and like, sorry. Person in my life, I don't know how this goes for you. If I'm at a football game that they're at, they'll be like, Hey, I know you're here. Come by the tailgate. Let's drink.

And it's just like, I don't think people understand like that when we're there, we're doing a different thing. Yeah, you're right. It would be like me coming to your job and saying, hey, I got a six pack out in the parking lot, let's split it. Yeah, come out and tailgate for your, before we pound Excel sheets. I don't know. This is actually, this is actually not a bad idea.

This is, this is maybe something we should, should we normalize this behavior in real life? I think we should. All right. Because here's the thing. So when we met Big Cat in the parking lot before the Alabama Wisconsin game in Madison, we were at a tailgate and then like we were offered alcoholic beverages as like a promo. Do you remember those? Do you know what I'm talking about? Oh, I remember.

Yeah, there were like little bomb things. Yeah. Yeah, I don't remember what it was, but like we got offered two or three and then we met Big Cat and then we were drinking White Claws with him and I had two with him and it was the most I ever drank before a college game

and I was like pretty buzzed walking into the. I remember. I gotta tell you though, I was locked in bro. You were stone cold sober by the end of the game. But I sort of like, I could have covered. I feel like I could cover a game messed up. I think that I didn't think about this from a 2025 perspective. So Steve says, I work at home, come on over.

So yeah, I can just show up in Steve's driveway, drop the tailgate, and we're good. You know, when people go on lunch breaks from their jobs, because like Britt goes out to lunch all the time for her job, like I, I see friends sometimes for lunch, but I work at home alone. But how, what percentage of people do you think drink beers on their lunch break? That's a pretty high number, I think. It's probably not as high as the Mad Men era when they were just crushing martinis.

How did anything get anything done? Like, like the, did people, is Mad Men exaggerated or did people actually slam whiskey in their office? Like I think there are, there are, well, look, we're in sports writing. We've known quite a few functional alcoholics in our day, so it's possible. Yeah, I just know, like if I had like three, you know, like they would show Don you would have like a whiskey glass up to here and he would just like pound it. And it's like, how do you like sell a Kodak commercial now?

Like I just I feel like, you know, there's a point. Carousel. Yeah, that was emotional. I was something, though, where nothing happened, really. Like it was a very credible show. It was like the original. It was like the 50s Seinfeld almost, except it wasn't a comedy. It was like stuff happened. Stuff happened all the time.

Now, to the first season of that show, when he was faking his identity, you thought maybe he would have a dark past and there'd be a murder involved or something, and then it just turned out to be no one cared, and then he was just cheating on his wife for five seasons. Way to ruin the first season and a half on Mad Men for people.

I did, didn't I? Well, I mean, the thing's been out for what, 15 years now? If you haven't seen it by now, then that's a you problem. But I thought it was an incredible show. I'm not nagging it. I'm just saying, like the way that the show started, you thought it was going to a place that it really never went to.

No, I loved it. Loved it. Got my wife into Land Man, by the way. Very excited about this. I'm now re-watching. If Ali Larder doesn't win every Emmy, it's rigged. Do you think you could be married to a woman with that personality? I think I'm kind of am married to one with that personality. Not with the

gold digging aspect of it but we'll say everything on her mind. Yes, I'm already married to that. She saw those Sports illustrated by lines were just like, Oh baby, get me pregnant now. Oh no, no, she was broke. She met me when I had $20 in my checking account. Any single person, I guess like maybe on ESPN or something, but like has anybody ever been a gold digger for a sports writer before? No. Your, your gold digging standards are very, very low. If that's the case, you're paying for copper at that point. News and he is rolling in it.

Speaking of cash money, this is the only reason this thing exists. We got to talk about the Crown basketball tournament because they started playing it yesterday. So for those who don't know, the Crown is a tournament that Fox organized, involving teams from conferences that have TV deals with Fox. So the Big 10, the Big East, the Big 12, and they have these games.

So right after the Elite Eight games end on Sunday, and then the crown starts on Monday so the crown started yesterday and they had a quadruple header like 2 p.m. 4 p.m. 6 p.m. Like it you know right along the teams involved Obviously teams that didn't make the NCAA tournament So like yesterday's games Butler beat Utah Boise State beat George Washington, Nebraska beat Arizona State, Georgetown beat Washington State.

But the most interesting thing that happened was not that this is this tournament is in Vegas. If you've heard my description of it and you know, Ari, you know, this thing exists only to be watched by gamblers. The only reason you would even start this thing is because you know, there are people just itching for action on the day after the Elite Eight and they want some action. Well, the Crown got pulled from FanDuel and DraftKings because their excuse is that the

regulating agencies in various states had not approved it. The conspiracy theory among gamblers is because of when this is happening in relation to the transfer portal. Like Villanova plays today. Villanova has fired a coach and hired a coach. Like Mike Nardi is the interim coach who's leading Villanova in the game today. Like the gambling conspiracy, and I kind of lean this way is you can't make a line for these things is anywhere near accurate because you don't know who's like when the games were set.

You don't know who's going to transfer you have no idea what these teams are going to look like. Also, if you were going to fix a sporting event like the crown would be it right? I mean like there's no like which are like a crown trophy that people are going to put in their basketball building. Well, the players get money like the further you go, the more money the players get. Yeah. So that's a motivational aspect. Right. And if the

regulating agencies has a problem with that, well, they don't have a problem with golf tournaments and tennis tournaments. They work the same way where the further you go, the more money you get. The thing that's interesting about this though Andy, when you're doing the whole neck scratching thing, is that when you get to the first round of the NCAA tournament, there is a basketball game on at all times, right? And then the next weekend, it's kind of just one at a time. But then you get to the final four in the Elite Eight, and it's like you're itching for action and watching games and that just aren't on.

And it becomes like kind of like a. Which is why they schedule this the way they did. So quarterfinals Monday, Tuesday. Or excuse me, round of 16, Monday, Tuesday. Round of eight, Wednesday, Thursday. Semis Saturday right before the final four. Like so there's a game and another game and then it leads into the final four tipping off.

Totally appetizers. What that's called and your Sunday championship is immediately after the Women's National Championship game. Yeah, this is. I mean, I think that that makes sense. Uhm? You're right though, like. If you're not gambling on it, then why are you watching it? What's the point? Our friend, Mitch Sherman, who covers Nebraska for the athletic guy, he said, he said, it's like the NBA all-star game just without the NBA all-stars. And then Ryan Glass Beagle, who covers the media the media, he had a great, great tweet.

I think he might listen to you, Ari. It's so bizarre that you could bet on a random ping pong match around the world at all hours of the day, but state regulators drew the line at the Crown attorney and ordered books to take the lines down. It's actually a sweet logo. It's a beautiful logo. Listen, it's a good idea given this environment. But if I were

a line maker, this would be a nightmare for me. Yeah. Because you could get your book just destroyed here. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like my book caps my women's bets. Yeah. And like, and that's an actual tournament. And because like the lines aren't as sharp on those. So, you know, I can't imagine, I mean, I actually would think, with all the data that they have from these actual power basketball teams, making a line would be relatively easy. But if these aren't those teams, Yeah, but if this is if rosters and coaches are in flux, then I understand that too. So, you know, the

in order that makes me think though, like how bad down bad is the UFL if they can't get people to watch it, even if they're gambling on it? Like, I don't even I don't there's even more ways for you to gamble live. That's all there is to it. I know. But like, I don't I even in the off season, like I don't do, I don't even do that. So ping pong, yes. But you draw the line at spring football. It's not, it's not drawing the line. It's just I'm not even interested in watching it. I don't know why. But COVID was a

very dark time. Okay, like let's just like Andy, like we weren't going out. There was no dinners. There's nothing going on. Like you're not sleeping well. Like you're sleeping all day. So you're up all night. And it's just like, what am I going to do at three in the morning? And you got one option. And once that's exhausted, you got to figure something else out. So that's Scott wants to know, cause we're in, we're in complete grab ass territory now, but Scott wants to know because we're in complete grab a territory now, but Scott wants to know Thursday. Targeting it and we have some shows to record on Thursday. So here's the thing.

Can I talk about this because I'm like really sure if people are mocking me. Congratulations on your used car. Thank you. I'm excited about my used car. So it gets shipped on a semi truck, right? Like there's a trie and you've been down the road that I live on.

Like that's not a semi truck pool into the driveway type of road. So like I've got to coordinate like a grocery store around the corner where I can go, I'm gonna walk to it and pick it up at some point on Thursday, but they picked it up this morning and it's on its way. And then I'll point on Thursday, but they picked it up this morning and it's on its way. And then I'll know on Thursday, like as he's approaching like what time,

but like the thing that stinks is that like, I'm super excited to go to the final four. I'm gonna miss my baby because I'm gonna have it for like four hours. Then I have to go. Yeah, you're not driving it all the way down I-35 to come visit us. I thought about it, but then I was like,

am I going to put 10% of the miles that are on this thing on it just to drive to San Antonio? And like if something broke, I want to get it serviced and all this stuff. So, but I want you to come drive it. I want you to be excited and yeah, but I can't wait. I'm going to waterboard people with pictures of it. So I hope that you're all ready for that. But I've been waiting for a long time for this and I finally just pulled the trigger and did it.

And I'm sure Andy's tired of getting listings about it at two in the morning because I would send him like, what do you think of this one? It's like, like he's been along for the journey. So I am just thrilled for you. I am thrilled for you. But now I can't wait to see it. We're going to have to make that happen very soon But we got more to talk about

Very interesting college football conversation today You mentioned this Yesterday and I want to talk about it tomorrow And I think you and I can probably get together and do some writing about this too because I think it's it's very interesting What's the ceiling for your favorite program? What are the ceilings for various programs in college football? Because we had that argument about Penn State yesterday. But we also have to have the argument, like that's the thing with Penn State that we didn't

get to wrap around on, is that when I said the thing that made people angry about Penn State, which is they don't have as high of a ceiling as Michigan and Ohio State, and you said, why shouldn't that be, that's not true, why is that true? That is the reason why you're able to be critical of James Franklin. Like that, that's the whole thing. So like, whether or not or not they've been judged against teams where their ceilings are national championship. And let's be honest, for a while there during the 2010s, Penn State was better than Michigan. Michigan's national title two years ago

was like rewriting the history of where they are. And Vance asking, are we talking about for this season or all time? We're talking about right now. Yeah, like right now. With this coach, with this administration. For whatever like because because the USC conversation. I think is gonna be real different for right now

than it would have been when Pete Carroll was the coach. But you cannot say with a straight face that Penn State ceiling is not winning a national title when they were a possession away from making the title game and playing a team that they played a one possession game with like that. Like, you know. You're the only one who was saying that. No, no. What I'm saying in the...

I think that their ceiling has changed is what I'm saying. Like, I don't think that was their ceiling in 2017. I think it is now. And I think this is a really fun conversation for a lot of different programs. Now, it's not, look, it's not a fun conversation for Ohio State or Georgia. We know what it is for them. We know. But some of the more interesting ones where they're either trying to get back to something or they hit a high and we're not sure they

can get get there again. That is fascinating. So yeah, where's your program ceiling right now? We'll talk about it tomorrow and later in the week, we want you helping us. Dear Andy, dear Ari, you know how to find us at Andy underscore Staples on social media, at Ari Wasserman on social media. Andy Staples on three at gmail.com,

Ari.wasserman at on three.com. Ari dot Wasserman at on three dot com. We already got one question from Willie. Nobody emails me ever. I know they email me. I don't know why they just email me. Well, because your name is the bigger name. I get it. Well, Willie already sent us a question.

And I love it. Can I pre, Willie's in the chat right now. I think I should preview it. You ready? You ready? You're ready? Because we need to start coming up with an answer for this. We might need to enlist Pete Nacos to help us. What would the 2001 Miami team roster cost in the NIL era? Oh, God. in the NIL era? Oh God. Ha ha ha!

It's a great question. Be very expensive. We'll talk to you tomorrow.