Andy & Ari On3 - Kansas Jayhawks coach Lance Leipold ROLLS with the changes | Can John Calipari evolve at Kentucky?

Episode Date: March 26, 2024

Need to sneak in those tournament games while at work? Prime Video has you covered. Watch every game live, on your phone, on your laptop, or relax and watch at home on Prime Video, with a subscription. Prime Video gives you choices to add on channels like Paramount Plus and Max, both featuring March Madness tournament games, all in one place. It’s March, it’s Madness, stream it all on Prime Video.Learn more now…https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/storefront/ref=atv_hm_spo_c_rEmqNT_6_2?contentType=tournament&contentId=amzn1.dv.icid.64a44c0e-3ac7-4b14-ad4d-c2a438001f2c&jic=8%7CEgNhbGw%3D0:00 Intro - Coach Cal Update, Lance Leipold5:09 Lance Leipold Interview30:58 Lance Leipold Wrap Up34:38 Nick Roush Joins the Show to update Calipari1:00:23 Conclusion with CalipariLance Leipold has worked a miracle at Kansas, and he explains how what he learned coaching in Division III ultimately helped him turn the worst program in the power conferences into a team that went 9-4 last season and kept together a core that will enter the 2024 season expecting big things.The Jayhawks are adjusting to change, though. Penn State hired away offensive coordinator Andy Kotelnicki, and Leipold hired veteran coordinator Jeff Grimes to take over an offense led by human highlight reel Jalon Daniels. Kansas also will be playing its games in Kansas City while the Jayhawks’ home stadium is being rebuilt in Lawrence. A time traveler from 2019 wouldn’t believe one of the clauses that was written into the contract with the Chiefs’ stadium.Next, Andy and Nick Roush of Kentucky Sports Radio break down the John Calipari situation at Kentucky. Calipari is scheduled to meet with Wildcats athletic director Mitch Barnhart on Tuesday, but Calipari’s appearance on his radio show Monday night certainly seems to suggest he’s coming back for another season. That’s going to frustrate a lot of the fanbase. What does Calipari need to do to win back that group? And more importantly, what does he need to do to get out of the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament?Want to watch the show instead? Join us on YouTube or Twitter each morning, M-F, at 8 am et! https://youtube.com/live/3JrRPS5euso

welcome to andy staples on three happy tuesday happy john calipari meeting with his boss mitch barnhart day but we're pretty sure john calipari is going to stay kentucky's coach because i don't think mitch barnhart who who is one of the more staid and conservative, and I'm not talking in a political sense. He does not do outlandish things. I don't think he'd let John Calipari go on his coach's radio show on Monday night and act as if he's going to be the coach next year if he's not going to be the coach next year. That would be very surprising. We've seen surprising things before, but that would be very surprising. But we're going to have Nick Roush from Kentucky Sports Radio on later in the show

to break down that John Calipari radio show. There's still a lot of folks in Kentucky still mad. I think Nick's one of them that the season did not end the way they wanted it to. It has not ended the way they wanted it to. It has not ended the way they wanted it to for a while. And it's one of those situations where the expectations are Kentucky at Kentucky are what they are. It is to win national titles. It is to compete for national titles if you were not winning them. And it feels like even though Calipari has made some changes, has done some different things the last few years, the results have always been the same.

And that's, I think, where the source of frustration is. And the guy who came in, who understood kind of how to play the game with the boosters and with his bosses, he got a little too big for that. And now he's got a lot of people angry and probably not as many friends as he would have had. So it's going to be a pretty awkward and uncomfortable off season in Lexington because again, I don't think that they would let him go on that radio show if they were planning on firing him and paying a $33 million buyout

or less if he gets another job. But still, a titanic amount of money if they've got to wind up paying it all. So we'll find out. But the NCAA tournament continues without Kentucky. Great Sweet 16 coming up. How do you watch that Sweet 16? Well, with Prime Video.

Watch every game live on your phone, on your laptop. You can relax watching at home, on your TV. All of it with Prime Video with a subscription. One password because what you do is you subscribe to Prime Video. Then you use the add-ons for Max and Paramount+, which would give you all of the tournament games within your Prime Video app. One app, not switching back and forth.

One password. It would be so easy. And oh, by the way, yeah, new Roadhouse course. Jake Gyllenhaal as the new Dalton. They move it from, I believe the first one was in Kansas. The original was in Kansas. This was in the Keys. I can't wait.

I haven't had time because I've been watching the tournament. But one of these days, I'm going to get to watch that one too. Because I, of course, am a Prime Video subscriber. You can be too. Click the link in the show description if you're watching on YouTube or if you're listening on your favorite podcast platform. The link will be in the show description. Just give it a click and they will show you the rest of the way. Now we have a very special guest today. Great interview. Before we talk to Nick Roush about the whole John Calipari situation, we're going to go to another basketball school, but it's a basketball

school that is on its way to maybe becoming an everything school. And it is very much in part because of the guy we're going to talk to, Lance Leipold. He's Kansas' head football coach. And let's be perfectly real here. He's a miracle worker. Because three years ago, Kansas fired Les Miles. They fired Jeff Long, the athletic director. It was as spring practice was ending. They were the worst team in the power five. They might've been the worst team in the FBS. Lance Lightpool came in and immediately changed all of that.

And now he's got a team that is expecting big things, that is expecting to win every time it takes the field. Very exciting quarterback in Jalen Daniels. This is something that seemed impossible three years ago when he got the job. You talk to him, you don't get a lot of flash. You don't get a lot of, you know, he's not a salesman. He's just a guy who goes in and builds programs, whether it's Wisconsin Whitewater Division III, whether it's Buffalo, and now Kansas.

It's been pretty incredible to watch. Now you can hear him explain how they've gotten there, what they're doing, why it works. Here's Lance Leipold. We are joined now by Kansas football coach Lance Leipold and construction going on all around. The Jayhawks are actually out of their home for this season. You got games at Arrowhead Stadium.

You got games where the MLS team plays in Kansas City, but they are building this massive new stadium entertainment complex where David Booth Memorial Stadium stood. Lance, I got to think, that's not happening unless you guys are winning some games here. Well, first of all, Andy, great to be with you, and thanks for saying that. You know, it's definitely exciting times for us right now. And kind of like we had just said a minute ago was that, you know, I think definitely the success of the last couple of seasons has

definitely helped this momentum. And from the time we named, announced the project to the time that we actually started moving on stuff to me is by far the fastest i've ever been a part of and it's really truly exciting to see see what's going to happen now in the meantime yeah there's going to be some inconveniences um especially with home games next year we did experience a little bit of that last year when we renovated our locker room and weight room to kind of jump start this project. And it's really helped our players kind of adapt to what some of these things can be. And I'm really proud of what they've been able to do here these three months or so of the second semester. The most interesting part of the contract is so you have this deal to play your Big 12 games where the Chiefs play.

It's in the contract that if you host a playoff game, it's going to be an arrowhead. And I realized as a coach, you don't want to think about that at all, but I got to say, Travis golf, your ad, I,

I appreciate that. He's looking at that and going, you know what? I feel like these guys are, are in a position to think about these things. Yeah. It, you know, when that came out, I put it this way. I was not privy to any of that being even part of the language. It was never in a discussion of, you know, even behind the closed doors.

Hey, what happens if, you know, if everything lined up correctly and that on the field? So it's exciting, you know, and again, these especially places with natural grass that share the field. So it's exciting, you know, and, and again, these, especially places with natural grass that share stadiums, I know Lincoln financial in Philadelphia and that when, when you ask somebody to, to be able to use their field and do those things on a Saturday and there could be a Sunday home game it takes special cooperation and, and that's going to, I can can we can't thank the chiefs enough uh children's mercy park as you mentioned in kent city kansas um we're supporting kc plays uh

you know for our first two games our two non-conference games should be an exciting more intimate uh uh you know uh stadium to play in and it still should be exciting and we'll make the best of it yeah that that unlv game by the way everybody don't don't sleep on that one those guys are very good barry's got a good team so that that could be a very cool cool game in a very intimate setting but you know when you look at this you're essentially starting in a new league now with all that the Big 12 has brought in last year and this year. How different does it feel when you look at your schedule

and you see conference games against Arizona State and Colorado to go along with Houston and teams that weren't there two years ago? Yeah, when you really look at it again, the oddness, I guess, or uniqueness of taking this job over in May of 21, and then we add some teams, and now we're adding more teams. This job continually changes, and we don't even have to relocate. So it'll be exciting. It's different, I guess, even from my small college days.

I've always enjoyed just, you know, competing against different people, different venues. I think it gives you different experiences. I just think it's going to continue to get better and better. And I think, I don't know what the word parody is, but matchups are going to be, you know, there's always talk of the two teams that just departed about their resources versus everybody else. And I think it's a little bit more on level ground and it's made it exciting. And I think it'll continue to be that way. I will point out that you did beat those teams a couple of times on their way out. So we don't have to worry that much about it, but you're right. I'm very excited about the Big 12 schedules this year. I imagine as a coach, it is not as much fun when you look at it

and you see that these are all games you can lose. Every team you play is going to be a team that can beat you. Absolutely. I think that's part of what people, you know, I'm really proud of what our staff and our players have done here in the last two years, Andy. But I think we can get way too far ahead of ourselves if we just start looking at how games can really play out

because of, again, the way people can put things together. You can look at Baylor a couple years ago. They were picked ninth in the league, and they win the conference. You look at what TCU did in Sonny's first year. There's going to continually be those type of teams that, and I'm sure we're mentioned in those type of conversations of teams that maybe surprise people. So you have to be ready. You have to stay grounded and be able to go. And as you say, you mentioned Arizona State,

but two weeks earlier, we go all the way out to Morgantown. Then you go the other direction. And I just think that's today's new college football at this level. And I think those are going to be things that we're going to have to learn and tweak and look at no matter how much it may be four years before you do it again. But you've got to keep in mind, OK, what's it like on the body? What time are the kickoffs? What are those going to be? And we've got to be smart on how we practice, how we travel and do all those things because that could pay dividends for you late in the season. So you mentioned your small college experience. And for those who don't know, and if you haven't read up on Lance Leifold, six national titles at Wisconsin White whitewater in in division three you look at caitlin deborah who won an nai national title takes washington the national title game last year now he's the alabama

coach uh chris climbing obviously great career at north dakota state he's won the big 12 at kansas state when when these jobs open up the do you want to call the adss and say, hey, guys, you notice a trend here? Yeah, you know, there's others that as well. You know, O'Brien Kelly, you know, he started at Grand Valley State. And Chuck Martin did some of that. There's guys there. But I think, you know, it gets talked about more, especially because of Kalen's success, which is so great and so happy for him, is I just think, though, when people hire people that they know or backgrounds that they're comfortable with,

then I think sometimes it's looked at at a risk. I think a lot of times right, wrong, or indifferent, Division III can be looked at as being closer to high school football than it is to Power Five football, Power Four football. And sometimes, you know, you can go all the way back to Jerry Faust experiment if people are sometimes not going to take that chance. So sometimes you do. And I've said I'll be forever grateful for Danny White because Danny is an outstanding, I think, administrator. And he's always going to be thinking outside the box. And he did, and he gave me a great opportunity at Buffalo.

Well, and I've talked to Danny about that whole situation. Danny's the AD at Tennessee now. He was the AD at Buffalo when you got hired. And he explained exactly what his thinking was, is I can get a Big Ten position coach who may not understand the CEO parts of this job, or I can go find a very successful CEO and bring that person in. And that's how we wound up in your living room.

Yeah, and fortunately for me and our family and our staffs that it worked out that way. And I think that's one thing. And it depends on what you're looking for. It really does. I've been very fortunate. Andy Kolnicki was our offensive coordinator, just moved down to Penn State. But he's with us 11 years.

Brian Borland's been, we're going on 18 years as being the defensive coordinator. There's guys in this hallway. I've worked longer than probably twice as long as most marriages even last, you know. So there, and we spend a lot more time together sometimes, unfortunately, than we do our own spouses. So, you know, having continuity, having respect, being on the same page, egos in check, and still finding ways to be successful is a balancing act. And, and, you know, we've been grateful to do that at a few spots and we continue to want to plug away

at doing it. So you mentioned Andy, your offensive coordinator heading to Penn State, and that is, you know, you've had so much continuity with his staff since you've gotten there, but I do wonder, you know, it's obviously a great opportunity for him, but then you bring in Jeff Grimes, who's been at a bunch of places at Baylor, at BYU, at Auburn, you know, you, you name it, he's got a long career. Andy Reed was actually his position coach at UTEP. But what's it like now with some, some new ideas or kind of a fresh look at what you guys have been doing very well? Yeah, and I'll just kind of add in as well. You know, DK McDonald is coming in as our corners coach from the Philadelphia Eagles, and he spent, I think it was up to eight years, six to eight years with Matt Campbell at Toledo and Iowa State,

and then now time in the league. To have two guys like that, I think, you think, Andy, it's really a bonus for us because the first three years really emphasizing continuity and what we needed because this program hadn't had any in so long, from head coaches to position coaches to everything. But also now that we've gone into year four, it has forced me to make sure that we're hitting on the little things, our practice expectations, what we're doing,

little details that sometimes can slip away from you when you think everybody's always on the same page that they've been in the building with you for multiple years. So, and like you also alluded to, I always enjoy when even our analyst role or other support staff roles, when other guys come in from other programs, asking them about how it was done at other places. And I think that's the only way that you can learn and grow. And though we've enjoyed the way we've done it and the successes that we've been able to have from time to time, but we're far from having all the answers and having this whole thing figured out. Well, and the other thing I think, you know, your offense is still your offense, even though Andy's not there, but I'm always interested by the way that you play a fun brand of football, but you are very, you know, very much harping on fundamentals, on the little things, on that.

You know, people look at you as this program builder, like get the little things right. But then you watch you guys play and you're playing two quarterbacks on the field at the same time. Yeah, I think those are some things that we made ourselves unique. We wanted to have player engagement. We wanted to have a little fun with it. There's things that are window dressing, and there's things that can be used in those formations, and that's what we kind of like,

and we've just continued to evolve with in different ways. And when talking with Jeff Grimes about the position, I like some of the things that his Baylor offenses had done in the past. I think they could be nice additions, but part of the requirements of being involved in this job was we are going to continue to do the things that we do. That's motion shifts, personnel groupings. Andy, here's just a short example. I don't know if I've said this to you before in the past, but we played a non-conference game two years ago against, now two seasons ago, against Houston. And in that game, we were fortunate to win. Don't remember by how much, but it wasn't a lot. And we had 11 different players catch passes. And it really resonated

me that the more personnel groupings, the more people on the field, the more touches that people get, guess what? You build depth, your morale's better. Things happen. Kids think they have a chance. And everything that we're doing, and it's not like, hey, let's make sure player nine, 10, or 11 get a quick touch here. It just happened to evolve through the thing. And it became part of our identity. We always wanted to be multiple enough that we could play to our strengths of the current season of whatever personnel grouping that was. That's really been our philosophy since Whitewater. I remember covering Urban Meyer early in his career, and he would talk about that, about how many different receivers would get touches during a game.

And the goal was always double digits. You didn't try to force it, but he explained how one that mentally keeps everybody engaged. I may get my shot here, but also at practice all week keeps everybody engaged. Exactly. And I think, you know, our offensive staff, you know, last year led by Andy and now by Jeff, I think that becomes very important on Monday and Tuesday. Cause when you get a chance to see that you're in a couple of personnel groupies on Monday and Tuesday, guess what? You're locked in. You're more focused. You're not waiting to see if something happens to fall your way on Wednesday or Thursday, you'd have no, and then all of a sudden, you know, your player engagement, like I said before, your morale's better. And guess what

guys compete harder and you're building better depth. And, and, and also even some of the guys that play a lot, you know, if Joe's doing a great job and in this small package, he's been given, guess what? I better be on top of my game or he's going to get some more of my reps. Yep. No, it's, it is fun to watch it. It's amazing to me. game or he's going to get some more of my reps. Yep. Now it's, it is fun to watch it. It's amazing to me. I was going back just to get the exact date of your hire in 2021. It was April 30th.

Like spring practice is done. How, how did you get this thing off the ground? Yeah. As quickly as you did. You know, we were done with our spring practice at Buffalo. I got offered the job at like 745 Eastern time.

And they said the plane was coming at 130. And we're leaving at 130, I should say. And I landed in Lawrence. They took us out to the field. The team had just finished their walkthrough for the spring game. And that was on a Friday. And met boosters and watched part of the spring game Saturday. And we went and the semester was ending. So that was the next component.

The guys were going home for two, three weeks. And then the portal was being created. So I'm trying to meet guys and try to make sure that they know that there's going to be a new opportunity and new vision. And we're fortunate. But also, and I think you've probably covered this along the way, this program struggled being under scholarship, got itself upside down with the 25 hard count.

And, you know, the portal, when they got rid of the hard count, we were able to, you know, take advantage of that and bring in players. Our portal recruiting has been very solid. I don't know if every guy – in fact, we probably had less guys in the portal that start than half, but what they've done is added that layer in the 2D and the constant competition in the program that we desperately needed, and that's really helped us. And, again, I think our players, once they saw how we're going

about it, we moved to morning practices. We did some things we said, and we said what we said we were going to do with them. And just in the day-to-day operations we did. And I think that started to build the trust and we started to build confidence. And we've been able, a few players came over from Buffalo that were great leaders and also showed, you know, led through example, but also showed a belief in what the, what we do and how it works. And I really think it helped us kind of close the gap sooner than later. Well, and you mentioned the transfer portal. The other thing, and I've heard you talk about this in press conferences is talk about retention and how important that is. Obviously you're bringing back Jalen Daniels at quarterback. He's coming off an injury, but you're hoping to have him ready for the season. Your corners, Kobe Bryant

and Melo Dotson, those are NFL guys. How critical is it? Because if you look at what you've lost in the portal, teams aren't cherry picking off you guys, even though you've got good players yeah um you know we lost three players of the sec in my first week on the job and uh and since then we've been able to hold we lost one this year but all in all we've held in there pretty well i think you know this was a player probably prior to the portal um was probably had as many uh as much attrition as anyone in the offseason i think of that off season and i think these last two knock on wood because we have that other window coming yeah we've been in the lower part at least of the big 12 and i think hopefully that says about our players our staff the relationships the trust all the things you talk about but

i think like a lot of coaches though andy when you get a text or a call that says, hey, you got a minute or I talk, your heart skips a beat because, you know, you're always wondering what else is happening. But I do hope that, you know, our players see that the consistency in what they have. We've tried to say that let's not make everything about transactional relationships and we're trying to do things. And so far, they've been able to really resonate with that. Well, when you guys announced your contract a few weeks ago, you had a really interesting

answer to a question. And then you mentioned that same thing, that everything's not transactional. And you said, if it was all about money, I'd be somewhere else. And you mentioned that you've, you've told your players that too. What are those conversations like with the players and how do they respond to that? Because it's, it's, I can't imagine as an, as a 19, 20, 21 year old having those conversations in a way that with dollar figures that are similar to what I deal with as a 40 something. Right. You know, some of that's even done at the position coach level on the service level to do some, I'm, I don't get deep, deep into the weeds, but like you said, you, you try to talk about it because, and i think i've said it before in an interview like this so i guess i'll end up getting quoted again is is if somebody is reaching out to you and you're not

in the portal what type of actions are happening if you decide to go there that you're not aware of that could affect you are Are there other conversations happening? And we just talk, hey, we know we've got work to do. We're getting better. We're doing the best we can in NIL facilities, on the field. All we're trying to do is get a little better, but you know what? We're pretty honest about it.

If somebody's reaching out and you're not there, what value system is that? And what are you aligning yourself with? Because once you're there, you don't know. And, you know, I'm not – I don't have one particular one or anything, but I just kind of put that out to a couple of players. And they kind of pause because we ask them if they've been treated fairly and whatnot here.

Do you like it here? We get back to those things and hopefully. But like I said, we have lost a couple and you're not I thought if you can create a program where people want to play, you might not have to have as much money to keep them because they're happy, but that's, that might be a little pie in the sky. How do you, how do you balance having a program that players enjoy that they like playing in, but also that holds them accountable, that has discipline? How do you, how do you have both of those things? Well, it's an evolving process of how we're transitioning ourselves because right now

we're still dealing with a good portion of a roster that was not recruited with NIL at the forefront. I was telling a group, I had to speak to a group the other day, and I can remember what cost of attendance came in, and you probably do as well, Andy, where all of a sudden, the question got to be, what's my check? What's my monthly extra stipend? And that's kind of, now it's that on steroids, you know, and when it becomes that, that becomes an interesting thing, because there are other factors and families and things that young men are going to have to look at, but we, we try to keep it, you know, about the daily things of improvement and hopefully the goals of playing at

the next level are still at the forefront that will help them. And we give them the tools and resources to get there. I mean, right now we're going to have a, this will be the largest senior class I've ever been a part of. We'll have over 30 seniors and yeah. And that's a little COVID, it's a little portal, it's a little red shirting and retention. And all of a sudden, boom, you have this guys, but you know what? It's a really good group of guys. And for their sake. And I think the other thing, Andy, probably I should have hit on earlier,

I think it has to do with the relationships with themselves within the locker room. With each other, yeah. Yeah, with each other. You know what? Jalen Daniels is a heck of a young man. So is Devin Neal. Mello, Kobe is funny and as competitive as anyone. And these are guys, they like being around each other.

And as we say, you know, sometimes in portal recruiting, and especially if there's dollar figures, you're not bringing guys in to sit. You know, sometimes when you replace the guy, okay, you might come in and they're going to recruit over you through the portal. But who's that guy's buddy you know and how does that affect the rest of the locker room and there's other dynamics and we think about that sometimes as well well so i was thinking about one player that is not on your team anymore but i'm curious what did jason bean mean to your team this was he was the quarterback.

He was a starter. He filled in for Jalen at times. He had so many different roles, but it seemed like there were multiple opportunities for him to leave and go somewhere else and be a starter, but he stuck it out with you guys. Yeah. Personally, I'll always be grateful to Jason being in so many ways

because I think he's almost, you know, for what he really did to me for college football because he was a backup quarterback and knew he was going to be a backup. And actually, you know, his last play of the year before in the triple overtime game, you know, kind of called a Philly special play or whatever, and he ends up, you know, his last play of the year before in the triple overtime game, you know, kind of called a Philly special play or whatever. And he ends up, you know, he could have maybe tucked it, run it. He throws it. It's incomplete. We lose the game. Of course, everybody wants to pick that play or whatever.

And that he he already told us he was leaving. He told us he's going to try his hand at the NFL. He's the fastest guy on the team. I go, what's going to happen? You run your 40. Well, they're going to ask his hand at the NFL. He's the fastest guy on the team. I go, what's going to happen? You run your 40. Well, they're going to ask me to play another position. I said, okay, then why don't we work at that other position? And he came back with the idea he was going to probably play as much

or more receiver than he was going to play quarterback. And, you know, and then Jalen gets hurt and can't go. Never once did he ever say, hey, wait a minute, guys, you told me I was going to get all this extra work to help me. And he really developed himself into a fine quarterback. I thought the last two training camps we had, he was one of our most improved players. And to the point where scouts are,

I sure hope he's going to get his opportunity to be in a camp. Maybe he'll be a, you know, kind of a dual guy or some special thing that he can be on a practice squad or be a backup and do some things. But what he did for this program by sticking around where, where everyone else around the country seems to hit the eject button really says a lot. And he did a lot a lot for Kansas J-Hawk football. It sounds like that's the kind of environment you're trying to foster

and help find those guys. It seems like you've got a group of those guys now. Lance, you're in spring practice now. Cannot wait to see what you guys look like on the soccer pitch and on the Chiefs field. It's going to be a lot of fun. Yeah, you know, you start working about, you know, you start thinking locker room sizes and press boxes.

Thank goodness our guaranteed rate bowl was at a baseball stadium. So we've learned, you know. You're all set. You know, yeah, you learn to adapt. And, heck, you learn to adapt. And, heck, half the staff has made 13-hour bus trips. Heck, if we got to play in some other stadiums for a little outside of town, we'll be okay. Cannot wait.

Lance, thank you so much. Appreciate it, Andy. Thanks for the opportunity. Such a great chat with Lance Leipold. I could talk to that guy all day. He is so fascinating to me because he has now done this at the division three level. He's done it at the group five level.

He's doing it at the power five level. And again, I'm one of those people who takes degree of difficulty of a job very seriously. What he took over, he should not have been able to get them this far this fast, but he's done it. So we'll see. And I do believe when I asked that question about what he's done, what Chris Kleiman's done at Kansas State, what you saw Kalen DeBoer do at Washington, and now he's on to Alabama. Yeah. I do think athletic directors should look

more carefully at the lower levels of college football, at the people who are just winning, who are good CEOs, because I do think that probably matters more than anything when it comes to being a successful head coach. It doesn't mean everybody's going to be able to jump up levels, but I think during the interview process, you talked to enough people, you can figure it out. That's one thing I learned talking to Danny White about his decision to hire Lance Leipold at Buffalo. And Danny White is now at Tennessee's AD.

And he said it became very clear that Lance Leipold understood the foundational pieces of winning, understood how the CEO role worked. And then Danny's thing was, he can figure out how to use all the bells and whistles. He can figure out the recruiting piece of it if he helped put the right people around him. And he did. He absolutely has. He did it at Buffalo. He's done it so far at Kansas. Even as college

football has been changing considerably. And also, you know, I think a guy who's gone from division three to division one probably is a little more equipped to roll with those changes than somebody who's been in the same place the whole time. So really interesting guy. So glad he came on the show. We're going to hear more from him before we get into the season. I love talking to him, so we will have Lance back on. But now we're going to talk about a coach who is not as beloved at his place as Lance Leipold is at his place. John Calipari was at one point the most beloved. He could do no wrong at one point at Kentucky, but now it has become a pretty combustible situation. John Calipari went on his radio show on Monday night. I suspect that means he's the coach at

Kentucky next year. We talked on Friday about the buyout being doable, not impossible, even though it's $33 million, but it's also still a lot of money. And John Calipari always brings in good players. And I think that piece of it allows you to say, you know, maybe we can try one more time. You know, if it wasn't a case where he was bringing in really good players, where his rosters weren't always good, then maybe you're willing to write the checks that it would take to change. But the idea that you've got good players coming in still, you can maybe give it one more try. But as you'll hear when we talk to Nick Rausch from Kentucky Sports Radio,

there's a significant portion of the Kentucky fan base that is pretty much out on Cal. He's going to have to win them back. And the only way to do that is you win games when it matters. And the problem is it's going to be a while before they play another one of those games. And how do you handle the intervening time? Here's Nick Roush. I promised we'd have him back whether Kentucky won or lost in the first week

in the NCAA tournament, but Nick Roush, I did not expect you to be here under such interesting circumstances. Monday night, we listened to Cal on a radio show, sort of plead for his job. You know, Andy, I wanted to come on here and, like, scream and do a whole dog and pony show for all you sickos out there who love to see Kentucky lose. I'm happy, you know.

Dance. I'll dance for you, right? But I can't. It was so weird, right? Like, it's not. They did it again. And it was so bad. It was sad. And that was so bad. It was sad.

And that was, I think that was the biggest difference between Kentucky losing to Oakland in 2024 versus Kentucky losing to St. Peter's in 2022. There was an anger of like, how? What is wrong with you? And then this was, like, I found out my dog's dying. He's an old dog. He he's got some time to go, but his, his best days are done, right? He's an old dog. It's going to happen. And so I felt like it was with John Calipari, like the coach that I knew that was awesome back

when I was in college and gave me some of the happiest moments of my life, he doesn't have the same pep in his step. He doesn't sound the same. He doesn't coach the same. And they've just been bad. And they've been bad in such unusual ways that, like, this team, when you look at them, they did all the things that they were supposed to be able to do to go on that run and to see them flame out

because they couldn't guard a white guy who only shot threes a set shooting jack golke that took three dribbles how what you can't coach you can't coach that guy for making a shot what what i i i can't understand how we got to this point with john calipari but i was overwhelmingly sad thursday night just like, well, this is it. He's done. He clearly doesn't have it anymore. But he's on his radio show Monday night. Now, that doesn't mean, well, I'll ask you,

because you understand the dynamics of this better than I do. Mitch Barnhart is not the type of person who would let John Calipari go on his coach's radio show and then fire him the next day. That doesn't seem to fit the pattern of the SEC's longest-tenured athletic director throughout his career. Mitch has, I don't want to say universally, but part of the reason why people respect him so much

is because he gave Mark Stoops time when everybody wanted Mark Stoops fired, and he gave him that little extra rope, and now he's got the winningest football coaching Kentucky program history. But it's still just, this day on the internet, I don't know if any of y'all were on KS Sport, if you're not a member of KSR Plus or 13 Plus,

wherever you can read it, it's been wild. I mean, why not Don Staley? Why not Will Wade? Why not this coach? There was a guy who did Calipari burner and like poses Calipari doing an AMA. It was ridiculous. It was insanity. And it's, I mean, six times throughout the the day i thought cal was either going to be gone or

he was going to stay because andy as you pointed out on friday the buyout it wasn't didn't really seem to be an issue and in an unusual twist too there wasn't any sort of leaks on it was leaning this way or another but what i thought was weird is that i I don't know, like, Cal, part of his pleading on his show, Andy, he was talking about how much he loved this state and the expectations of this job. He loves this job so much. But he was calling in from his beach house in New Jersey instead of meeting with his boss after one of the worst losses in the history of the program.

So it's just a little weird. Well, it was interesting listening to the show. And we're going to play some clips from the show but it answered kind of a question that i had over the weekend and my question over the weekend was based on listening to cal in the immediate aftermath of the oakland game where he he was asked have you considered changing your roster strategy have you considered changing your recruiting strategy and he said I don't want to change because I like helping young men as if helping an 18 year old is somehow different or better than helping a 22 year old like they're still young adults and you're still helping them one way or the other. But like my question after that statement was, do you know

what your job is? Like your job is not to create the best group of NBA alums. Your job is to create teams that win titles. Like, well, and more specifically, and I say this in football all the time with certain jobs. John Calipari's job is to win the national title. Bill Self's job is to win the national title. Kalen DeBoer, new Alabama football coach. His job is to win the national title. Ryan Day's job is to win the national title.

Like it's not fair, but that's the job. And I'm not entirely sure Cal understood that, and then I heard him say, I understand that. I heard him say, the standard here is championships. So maybe he's just saying that, but at least I've now heard him verbalize that. Which he hasn't done as of late. That's the part where I know there might be some people on the outside looking in. You Kentucky fans are crazy.

Who wouldn't want John Calabria to coach their team? But it's not verbalizing that. It's, you know, he said one quote, our players were sad after the game and the fans were angry. It's like, no, Cal, we were sad. I don't think he understands how much not only we love this, but also that you're right. Those expectations are high. And when you know year after year that I'm going to do X

or I'm going to do Y or I'm going to do Z, and that's been the thing before, and that's where we've gotten to this point, is that there's been a, well, we went too young. We're going to go to the portal. They did the portal. They got the national player of the year. They lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament. They need more offense.

What do they do? They get more offense. They recruit a Kentucky kid, a legacy recruit, who's the national freshman of the year. And what do they do? They lose in the first round of the NCAA tournament. And I know there's a clip that we want to play, and it's what his big change is for this year. And it's the one that I think is the most,

it's like it's the hardest to sell for me because he says absolutely nothing that would actually fix the problems they had with their defense here we go well it's we just removed from the season but every year i go through that process of evaluating everything in the program. And you go through whether it's all the people around you or whether it's how we're doing things. I'll give you an example and I haven't gone through everything right now, but my thoughts defensively and physicality, how do we get back there? What about in the summers instead of a Bahamas or Toronto, we're really back to where

we're grinding and we're working on our physicality and we're working on defense. And we're trying to set a foundation of who we're gonna be because I don't wanna change offensively. I mean, it was fun coaching it. Our fans loved it. Obviously, the nation loved it because we were the highest rated TV game, all of our games. I mean, if there were 13, 12 games, we were in the top six of them. So I don't want to change that. But I know and I've always known that your defense steadies you when you're not making shots or you get a little anxious and you're turning it, you're missing shots, you don't use, your defense settles you. And there's a game where your offenses have to be good and your defense,

but we got to get back to that. So that being one thing that I've thought about, you know, what do we do in the spring? How do we do this? And I've not worked on defense that early ever, and it's never been a problem. But I think now I'm looking at it saying I think that's one thing we're going to have to do. No tour of the Bahamas in the summer. No games against the University of Nassau JV. That'll solve it. That'll make them play great defense.

Yeah. That's what's going to help them play good defense. And also love too, that it's like, he just had three beanpole seven footers and he's like, you know what? We need more physicality. It's like,

well, yeah, I could have told you that those guys weren't going to be good rebounders, right? Like, it's pretty clear and obvious they're going to get pushed around by the 24-year-old men. And you know what? Physicality, Andy, it's correct to an extent. But here's what the biggest problem is.

It's not having a freaking clue. Like, you need to coach your players. They were spending time before the NCAA tournament going around in a room talking to each other about why they believe they can go on a run. Like it's Andy or Michael Scott in the office passing the ball around the room to tell sad stories. Like, no, teach them how to guard Rob Dillingham. The one thing you cannot do when you are down by one point

in the NCAA tournament with 30 seconds left is leave the guy open in the corner for a three. How do you not have the awareness? Like, how are – I just – that – Cal has always been a great defensive coach, and he thought he could put in a bunch of shot blockers, and all of a sudden they'd be good at defense again. Well, you know what, Cal? You got good shot blockers.

You were third in the country in block cuts, but you were 111th in Kempom defense. It's the worst Kentucky defense in the history of the Kempom rankings. The worst ever. And it's because, Andy, now players don't just drive to the room to score. They shoot a lot of threes. So you had to have better perimeter defenders to guard. And to act like none of them are incapable of guarding too is bull crap.

Reed Shepard had the most steals in the SEC. So to act like that somehow these guys just like have an inability to guard, it's not true. They haven't been playing good defense for five years. I spend the games just bitching and moaning with my friends about the pick-and-roll defense because they haven't done it in five years. That was the last time they had a top-20 K defense they went to the elite a they lost overtime to bruce pearl their best defense since then was third and fifth all right the defense has just been bad

and cal's been bad at it and it's not because he liked physical players you know who was physical otter she play and they still sucked defense it is it is interesting i i'm starting to think there's a there's a better football compare i keep making the jimbo fisher comparison but i think there's a better one i think it's dabbo i think dabbo might be the comparison that's the game keeps changing last week well and but think about it both of them still recruit very well. Both of them still, you know, if the player stays, if the player's around, they get developed. They do tend to become very good. Now, the difference is Dabo has to, like,

players have to stay with Dabo for three years before they go to the NFL. But that part of it, yeah. That part of it works, but other things have changed within the game that everybody else has evolved with and they haven't. I think that is like, you know, Cal has made his concerted efforts, but just the, the, the, the worst part of all this, Andy, is that we have to like, start accepting some of the things that hater said as truths.

Cal can't coach. He just rolls the ball out there. And it's like, you've, you fought against that forever. And now I'm just like, oh man, what if he's right? Like what? Maybe it just wasn't a perfect storm with Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd, Gilchrist, and Deron Lamb, and Terrence Jones didn't go one and done and came back,

and Darius Miller was there. Maybe that was a perfect storm. Like, maybe Aaron Harrison just pulled some stuff out of his rear end, and, like, they got lucky. I mean, Brandon Knight had to hit two really big shots for them to go to that first Final Four. And so, yeah, that's the part where you just start thinking, like, wow, is Cal closer to two national titles or zero?

You know? You're just like, everything. I was there for the one. He was winning that one. He was winning that one. But he did need a pretty big block from MKG to get it there. But there's still issues. That's the part is that each year, Andy,

we're having to do the same thing we did for so many years. And that's, well, next year they're going to have some good players. Maybe they can do it. And it's gotten to the point where, I mean, this next group of guys, I don't know who it's going to be. Is Reed Shepard going to come back? DJ Wagner? I mean, they could have a really talented roster,

but now Cal has backed himself into a corner because it's all been about March. Well, now that pressure's up even more because, I mean, you know how hard it is to believe that team that went to Knoxville and beat Tennessee two Saturdays ago didn't win another game? And you know what? That's all that matters. That Tennessee win that was awesome?

Doesn't really matter. Yep. Now, in terms of the evolution, and this is where it's interesting because it is a bunch of good new players coming in. Now question is are they all going to be freshmen will be you know a mix of transfers will it be some returning players because all of those things change the dynamics and Cal got asked about that on the radio show about playing against older players. Now everybody's old because everybody recruits the portal so much. Could Cal decide to have a roster that looks more like everybody else's?

Getting this back to where everybody wants it to be, you and fans included. Well, it's winning the end of the season stuff, and we'll talk about it, but it's having this program in today's environment. It's a little different now. I mean, kids are 25, 26, 27. Now, how do you continue to do it with freshmen? What do they have to look like physically? And how do you bring in some transfers out of that portal to make up for your team? Some people are not taking any freshmen.

They're just going in the portal on 12 new guys and hope it works out. I would just tell you, I like the combination of both. We just got to get the right transfer who understands what this is. We got to keep coaching these young kids. We probably got to use the summer a little bit different because of where this is all gone. We got to get more physicality, more time in the weight room. What are the goals we're going to set for each kid physically? But on top of that, we got to first of all see who's going to be here from this roster and who won't be here. Well, that weight room part, you got to answer that last question before you can get to the weight room part, because like if Reed Shepard and DJ Wagner are back a year older, having, you know, more than a full year in a college weight program, as opposed to just coming

in and leaving, like that would be a big difference. But if they're not coming back, you probably need to get that sort of size and bulk and age out of the portal. Like Antonio Reeves, who was the highest scoring scorer in a single season in the Calipari era. Yes. So that's the part that we just keep going.

Yes, you need to do that. You have to do that every year. You've got to do more with that. Now, here's a fun little rotating door. The year that Kentucky got Antonio Reeves to the portal, he's a two-year player. Another guy they were recruiting that they missed out on, who is a big physical guy,

playing in Sweet 16 this week, Terrence Shannon. And I know there's a lot of other stuff with him off the court. Yeah, there's other stuff to talk about. But yeah, on the court, on the basketball court, exactly what they would have been looking for. Yes. Keyshawn Johnson, that's playing for Arizona right now whose three-point shots got a lot better than what he was doing last year San Diego State he's another guy that Kentucky kind of with and then they they missed out on so it's it's not that they haven't thought about it or tried to do it previously

but to the point where it's like well you can't miss and then how many how many guys want want that right like i know money in the middle plays a big part in it but for all these guys returners incoming freshmen it's gonna be a pressure cooker next year if Mitch Barnhart doesn't do the unthinkable and decides to can Cal, which that was the big Andy going into this day. We were just like, well, if Cal does his show, he's got to be the coach, right? But, well, Cal and Mitch, they're going to meet, aren't they? Yeah. I guess.

Well, Cal answered that question on the show. Let's hear his answer, and then I have a question for you based on that. A lot of noise out there and rumors, et cetera. So let's start with this. I assume that there's some type of meeting that happens at the end of the season, just like there is in the corporate world. There's a performance review of sorts. Does that happen with you and

Mitch? And if so, has it happened yet? Yeah, we do it every year and we haven't, but it'll be done in the next couple of days. And every year we share thoughts with each other and I'm sure he's hurting. I was on the plane back. He's hurting like the rest of us. And I look forward to hearing his thoughts, how we can be better. But let me say this right now, I've got to turn my attention to this current team. I have individual meetings set up. My staff has been spending time with the guys because we gotta find out where are they right now and where are they as they're going to go through the

process who's going through it and how we're doing that so we've got to live through that stuff right now um the immediate but i i will my guess is we'll meet mitch and i will meet tomorrow all right so i'm going to put you in mitch barnhart shoes nick so you may have to calm down a little bit from the way you've been through most of this proceeding here. Mitch is a very measured person for those who never talked to him. Yeah. Yeah. But in that top button. All right. So you're Mitch Barnhart. You're meeting with John Calipari, assuming you are not firing him, which I don't think you are because you would have probably already done that what do you want to see from him that says next year's gonna be different

well john um it's been a difficult time and we can make this better and it's it's winning cures all but you can help the other stuff. You can damage broke relationships, bond that bridge, so to speak. You can talk to those boosters, all those guys that you thought you didn't need to hobnob with. You should, you should talk with me, you know, your boss, all of those people that work with us, we have to work together, and we all have to be pulling on the same rope. And that can't be with some of the guys that you have on your coaching staff. It just isn't working. And you know what?

When you get new guys, you got to listen to them. This isn't the John Perry show. This is Kentucky basketball. This is bigger than you. And we all need to get on the same page. Zandy, that's the other part that if your big picture audience doesn't understand is that a lot of cows, a lot of people that were in cows corner, they were happy with him doing his own thing. But boosters, they like getting their butts kissed by the head coach.

He hasn't played that game. He hasn't played that game in years. And now the Pied Piper is playing his flute. Yeah, I do think, and I don't know, like if he were to come back and suddenly start glad-handing all the boosters, trying to have a good relationship with Mitch Barnard, I don't know that like if he were to come back and start suddenly start glad handing all the boosters. Trying to have a good relationship with Mitch Barnard. I don't know that anybody's going to buy that at this point. My thing is, the only thing that matters is do you win championships or do you not?

And in basketball, we actually had this discussion on the show yesterday. James Fletcher and I were talking about. When you when you're at a program that expects to win championships, what's acceptable? How deep do you have to go? And we were talking about Rick Barnes and how far does he have to go? At what point does the Rick Barnes narrative... But Rick Barnes is in the, in the, in the sweet 16, they're playing Creighton. Like if, if they were to lose to them, like there's no shame in that. That's a very good team.

Like if you get to a point where you're deeper in the tournament and you're just playing good teams, sometimes you lose. That's okay. But you keep getting there. Like Mark few great example. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nine consecutive sweet 16s.

Like he's put them in the mix. He's never gotten over the hump of winning the title. He's gotten to the title game, but they keep coming back. They keep knocking on it. So that's like, you don't do any, you don't change anything there,

but when you can't get out of the first weekend, that's where it's a problem. Because like you've mentioned earlier, they've changed some roster construction strategy. They've changed some scheme. The one constant has been Cal. Yes. And the results haven't changed. No, no.

And the other part of this too is like i know you're correct in that i mean they don't they don't hang sec championship banners right it's all final fours and that's it right but you you can get a little extra goodwill bought up if you win the sec regular champion season championship or you win the SEC regular season championship or you win the SEC conference tournament championship. When Tubby Smith lost to UAB in 2004 as the number one overall seed, I might be mistaken. It might have actually been the year before,

but I think that was the first time anybody had ever gone undefeated in SEC regular season and conference tournament play. We didn't think that Tubby forgot how to coach because they got upset one round. It's the fact that not only are they not going to the tournament, but they're not winning SEC regular season or tournament championships, and then Cal acts like those don't matter when they do. We care about going to Nashville, kicking everybody's ass,

tearing up Broadway, and having ourselves a hell of a weekend. There's a lot of easy weekend. And he like that. Those are, there's a lot of easy wins out there for Calipari. I think to your original point, I don't know if anybody's going to buy this all whole entire off season. And it's, it's going to make it incredibly uncomfortable. Like it's just,

it's going to be so uncomfortable. It is. But if we're sitting here next year and they're preparing for the sweet 16 then it's not it's going to be fine and if we're sitting here next year and they're out of the tournament Kentucky's going to be paying a large buyout like that I don't think there's any other way you go with that. Yeah. And even then, though, then you ask the question, is Sweet 16 enough?

Probably not. Is Sweet 16 enough? Probably. It's going to be a long offseason, Andy. We're going to be asking those questions, and I don't know what's going to be a long offseason, Andy. We're going to be asking those questions, and I just don't know what's going to be enough. And that's going to be, it's just going to be so, oh. I predicted it would be an uncomfortable offseason on the show last week.

I did not anticipate it would. I mean, I'm squeamish just thinking about it. We're on day three. Good news, though. Cal loves Kentucky. He said it a lot. That standard of national titles has been here from Coach Rupp on. And the only thing that I'm saying to all our fans, you know I'm going to work.

Work in our state. Work for this program and this university. Really work for these young people. And that's my commitment. I'm not changing. 24-7, let's go. Whether it's recruiting, all the stuff that we've got to do, that is a commitment that I give to the fans that I haven't changed. This is like wearing a coat. It never goes away. But I love it. This is what I want.

This is what I wanted. This is why I never left. This is it. And now it's let's come together and let's go do something. Let's do something special. And we can do it. We've done special and we can do it we've done it let's do it again i love that i never left i i don't i don't want to sound like just like a uh like a dog whistle is going off

and i'm just this cal hater but i just heard i'm not changing i haven't changed and like that's i think he's talking about work ethic there i don't think he was really saying i'm not changing the things that don't work though i know that's what a lot of people heard i i remember looking on twitter as he spoke those words and i was like oh boy oh yeah yeah yeah um maybe if you did the show in person instead of over the phone you know you might have been a little careful with the word choice but you know at least like it was a good effort and like he kind of cared and acted like he wanted to have the job because there's been a lot of times lately where he just looks miserable when he's up there

at the podium except for that time they beat auburn and he came in like peacocking with his chest puffed out and was like i thought i was gonna lose ha ha i didn't lose and then well i think there's a little more to that because you know who really if we're being honest if john calipari weren't the basketball coach at Kentucky, who the perfect basketball coach for Kentucky would be, it'd be Bruce Pearl. He's the rock star Kentucky needs. But that ain't happening. It's not. But the thought experiment of it potentially happening,

I don't know if we could handle another John Calipari right away. I think our DNA, our bodies are rejected. It would be like 2009 Calipari and not 2024 Calipari. He would be just sweating, just firing up the crowd. It would take us no time, and we'd be eating out of the palm of his hand. Oh, 100%. And he doesn't have to wear the suits anymore. He wears athleisure now, so he doesn't have to sweat through it.

But it's Cal, unless Mitch Barnhart wants to get really wild on Tuesday, or on Wednesday, excuse me. It's Cal. It's going to be Cal. And Cal filibustered right up until the end on his radio show on Monday night. And, well, Nick, you and I have both done radio. We know how bad the hard out can be. filibustered right up until the end on his radio show on Monday night. Well, Nick, you and I have both done radio. We know how bad the hard out can be.

There were times that I played Big Z 20 minutes. There were times that I left Aaron in. And probably, looking back, I should have let him in there even when he got a third foul, let him play because he was playing well. Should have left him alone. But you know what? Here's the thing I want to tell you when you're coaching. At 10 seconds here. Whatever you do when you win, you were perfect.

And whatever you do when you lose, you should have done the other. It's what you accept. And you accept people have opinions and they get mad. And they, you know, and the only thing. This has been the UK Healthcare John Calipari Show. Ending to the hardest part. Thanks for watching the Andy Staples on three. We'll talk to you tomorrow.