Andy & Ari On3 - Kirk Herbstreit explains Ohio State, a Playoff "ratings bonanza" and co-hosting with Nick Saban

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

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Welcome to Annie and Ari on three presented by Wendy's. We have a very big guest today. Kirk Herb Street from ESPN joining us. We're talking Ohio State and how they turned from the team that lost to Michigan to the team that buzz sawed Tennessee and Oregon. We're talking college game day. We're talking a little ratings.

I know everybody loves ratings talk. People do love ratings talk. Ari. What? What people love the ratings talk so much like like big my team's game got Six million viewers and your team's game only got four million. Is it just another level of competition? Oh, yeah It's just a sport where everything about the sport I think college football is unique in that that like in the NFL The only thing anyone cares about is how many games your team won

In college football people care about how big your stadium is how many tickets you sell how nice your facilities are what your ratings are Like everything is a competition you want to know why because it all boils down to attracting talent, right? That's higher ratings then you know more people see your games And that's another thing you can tell to a 15 year old that you might want to play at your school one day So, you know, that's that's another thing you can tell to a 15 year old that you might want to play at your school one day. So you know that's that's the thing. I know that we have like a I don't usually wear hats on this show but we did this interview with Kirk Herbstreet last night and I was wearing this and I was like you know what I'm gonna do the investment bro outfit to match the

interview. Alright listen I love the finance bro R.I like I love it. Yeah, you you look spectacular. Yeah, I appreciate you lifting the veil, you know, taking people high in the curtain because yes, I have had this shirt hanging in my bathroom since last night because that's what I wore during the Kirk her street interview. So it looks like one continuous show even though I did this sometimes we pre record things and I know that we're we're not big on hats here

But I wanted to make I thought continuity was more important in this Hold on let's let's let Paul's gonna tell us what this is about even though we already know what it's about Paul and Chad these guys are about to vomit all over anyone watching the SEC nonsense get your raincoat curl Kirk's got bills to pay Yeah, you're you're not ready for it. That's not the vibe you're going to come away with, Paul. You know how I knew it was a good interview, Andy, because we didn't really talk about the games and I think we'll probably have him on or try to have him on again before the national title game, but we

didn't have Kirk Herbstreet on to ask him like, hey, what do you think is going to happen in these games? Like I think that his opinion is very good and he watches film and breaks it down. But like we can do that too. Like we wanted to have a conversation about. The the unquestionable and unmistakable situation that he's in right now, which is there's a lot of people who are doing what they are doing in the chat to him on Twitter. And to get his point of view on how that happened. and I think that like when he said his point of view we

had some pushback I thought that we you know talked about some things and it gave you a interesting new light onto him because the number one takeaway here Andy is is that like the man went to Ohio State and is a Big Ten homer you know internally so like the SEC and I thought I think his insights on Ohio State are really interesting because remember he does have a son on the team as well and So the explanation of the difference between Ohio State at the end of the regular season and Ohio State now I found very interesting and some of the stuff he was talking about that happened between now and then

pretty fascinating so I I found very interesting and some of the stuff he was talking about that happened between now and then pretty fascinating so I Tell you what let's let's do it. But before we we go to Kirk her street I'm gonna tell you about axia time. I'm wearing my Odysseus to right now beautiful watch Swiss made automatic this is the official watch of the college football playoff and The Heisman Trophy right now. They've got this beautiful set of college football playoff commemorative watches. So all 12 teams that made the college football playoff, they have a commemorative watch. You're looking at the Ohio State one, the Texas one, the Notre Dame one, there's a Boise State, there's an Arizona State, of course, to commemorate those great seasons,

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use that code Ari Ampersand Andy and get your commemorative college football playoff watch to celebrate your team's run to the college football playoff. Ari, let's talk to Kirk Herbstreet. We are honored to be joined by ESPN's Kirk Herbstreet and Amazon Prime's Kirk Herbstreet. We're going over the travel schedule for the weekend, which seems a little bit daunting, but Kirk, you and Peter seem to be ready to roll. Some rain, snow, beach, doesn't matter. Yeah, we're gonna get it all this week

with Cincinnati outside right now. I think, I'm guessing 14 inches. Ohio doesn't get hit often with that kind of snow, but overnight it just was a rare storm. And then when I woke up today, it was still snowing. So it's probably 14 or 15 inches here. Then I got to go to Miami like you guys and get ready for the Orange Bowl.

And we're doing college game day leading up to that game, actually on the field. And then the game will go on. I'm not calling that game with Chris. We're just doing the studio work and then we'll do halftime of that game. And then after weather permitting, cause I guess it's snowing in Dallas,

we're all gonna try to get to Dallas and do another game day. And then that game I'll actually call the Ohio State Texas game down at AT&T Stadium. Chris and I will call that one. So, and then after that, I'll fly to Baltimore and do Amazon's first ever NFL playoff game, which we're excited to have the Steelers and the Ravens. So yeah, it's gonna be a fun, if fun, pure football fan, like me and you guys.

It's, that's quite a week we're looking for. Well, as a Dallas native, and by native, I mean, I've lived here for four years, this place gets hit by three inches of snow. This game might not happen. The city is going to cease to exist. I remember two years ago, it was like 15 degrees here, Kirk, and businesses shut down because it was too cold. So if we get to that point where there's... When I was in Nashville, and Andy could speak about this in the south, if there's a forecast of snow, shut it down. It's over.

You'll get the milk, get the bread, go to the, you know, lock everything down. I mean, just the forecast. So I can't imagine what, uh, what Dallas is, is dealing with. Seems like every, this time of year, there's potential of ice and rain and snow. It doesn't, it's not, again, not very often, but when it hits, it's, uh, it's, it's very uncomfortable for the natives. There's no infrastructure here. That's the thing.

I guess like Dallas and Texas has its own power grid, all right? But they also have no snowplows and stuff. So if it happens. OK, they didn't come here for a Dallas infrastructure critique. The people came to hear Kirk talk about this game. I do want to talk about this game in Dallas, because Kirk, we've had so many discussions about Ohio State and Ryan Day on the show.

I think after the people went off on your lunatic fringe comment, I think we did a whole hour on that alone. But I'm most curious, as you've watched this Tennessee game, the Oregon game that you called in the Rose Bowl, what is the difference? What did they do to flip this switch? Well, I don't think it's one thing. What is the difference? What did they do to flip this switch? Well, I don't think it's one thing. I will say this, just being around the team so closely and being around Coach Day and Chip and Jim Knowles,

everybody, there is without question an edge psychologically that has impacted this team. And you guys know what it's like in sports, team sports, when it's a collective edge. It's not a corner who has tweaked because the receiver's talking trash or an offensive tackle who the defensive end is talking about.

This is an entire team, coaches, players. I went to the senior tackle, which is now just a closed door. entire team, coaches, players. I went to the senior tackle, which is now just a closed door. It used to be public and now it's just closed. Just the family, the seniors, and the rest of the team and the coaching staff. And it was a Sunday after the Michigan game, and I was blown away by the energy, the emotion, the sadness.

They had that players only meeting and it was just with Coach Day. It got very, very aggressive. It was cleansing from what I'd been told. It was not everything's going to be fine. It was just guys letting some stuff out like a family would is the way they described it to me. And sometimes those kinds of conversations aren't comfortable, but they needed they felt they needed to do that because they still had to play off despite the frustration of losing another game to Michigan. And I almost

feel like in a weird way, as Ohio State people, it's weird to say that it was a good thing to lose to Michigan. You never say that. But I do think that the loss to Michigan and the reaction from media and from some of the fans brought them together. They were either going to crack and fall apart or they were going to come together more. And when they came out of that locker room at a home game and they saw whatever it was, 30, 40,000, whatever the estimate was of Orange in their own stadium, it became even more of a us against them. Them meaning anybody outside of that locker room,

family, friends, anybody. It was just the people in those uniforms and the coaching staff against the world. And they've kind of kept that chip on their shoulder. They haven't forgotten the comments. They haven't forgotten some of the people that have turned on them after that Michigan game. And I'm not saying that that's like the rallying point.

I'm just saying that that, I think, subconsciously has created an edge and they've been saying for over three weeks now, we got four games to go, four games to go. We're not saying goodbye at senior tackle, we're not done. We got four games to go until we have to say goodbye to each other for this year. And so I think it's a combination of things really, Andy.

I think it's the scheme offensively with Chip Kelly. I think they've been much more aggressive taking shots downfield and Will Howard and Jeremiah Smith and company. I think the offensive line has really reacted to a lot of people pointing fingers at them. So I think it's almost a perfect storm of what is different. By the way, they've been a pretty good football team all year, with the exception of the way that Michigan game went.

And I think they just kind of pulled their bootstraps up and said, we're a good team, let's go win a national championship. And the last thing I would say, and I brought this point up during the broadcast in the Rose Bowl, this narrative that Ohio State bought their roster, I don't think sits well with the team because every time I'm around them, there's a little bit of an angst with that. And I went back and I did a bunch of research and I said, you know, they are right. I mean, other than Caleb Downs defensively, I mean, you look at these guys, JTT, Tyleek Williams, Ty Hamilton, Jack Sawyer,

Jordan Hancock, Cody Simon, Sonny Stiles, Lathan Ransom, Denzel Burke, all those guys, they not only have been on the roster for four or five years, they almost all have started for the last three years. And so there's been a lot of really good moments for those that class of players. There have been a lot of tough moments when they walked off the field against Michigan or outplayed Georgia in their mind and walk off walked off the field losing to Georgia when they missed that last second field goal. So you know how that I think you have a very tight football team that felt a lot of anger, humiliation, frustration, and they're looking at this post-Michigan four game run as a chance to kind of correct in their mind

something that should never have gone wrong. And having that second life, I think, has really gotten them to play with tremendous confidence, tremendous energy. And in their minds, even when they won the Rose Bowl and the confetti came down, it was kind of like, pat on the back, let's get back to Columbus. Like they are just, you've been around team sports

your guys whole lives. They're just a team that appears to be on a mission to Columbus. Like they are just, you've been around team sports your guys whole lives. They're just a team that appears to be on a mission to Atlanta. Will they get there? We'll see. But it's everybody pulling together for one goal, and that's to win it all. Kirk, you know, my background in this business is being in the Ohio State world for the first decade of my career. You lived it, you played it. You understand, you know,

probably better than any other analyst having lived it, what that Michigan game means, right? And like, I want to just ask you, because I've been in your position, maybe not to the same extent, because you're much more famous than me, but being critical- So far. So far.

So far, we're working on it, okay? If you get Andy on the plane from Miami to Dallas, then we'll probably get there. But I can't imagine the position that you're in as somebody who played there, somebody who's from there and has an intimate knowledge of what it is to be on Ohio State Buckeye, but also to cover it. How difficult that is for you to remain objective, but also critical in moments when it calls

for it. And I believe that you obviously understand what the Michigan game means and what that loss would, in my opinion, was maybe one of the worst losses in the history of the rivalry. How difficult has it been for you to not only be critical in times that are warranted of Ohio State, but the backlash that you get continually from Ohio State fans on the internet? I really wasn't, a couple things, I've been doing this almost 30 years, my 29th year, of somebody being upset. You know, so you know, it's, it's all Ohio State fans, a portion of them have always been upset with me.

It's not like, wow, what am I going to do? The Ohio State fans are upset. You know, I, I, and I wasn't even critical of Ohio State. I was critical of Ryan Day needing an armed guard 24-7 outside of his house. That's what I was critical of. I was critical of some of the things they say to some of the players on social media, where they, here's my problem is I talk to Will Howard.

I talk to Ryan Day behind curtains. I hear the pain that they feel. And they can't say anything. I can. I'll take the bullets. These guys that are on these teams, and there was a basketball player at Ohio State, you probably remember his name, number 32,

the best players like two or three years ago, he's at the foul line. He needed to make the front end of a one and one. And I think he missed it. And he was the best player on the team. And he just got destroyed on social media because it was at the turn of the game and it would have advanced him to the next round

and he missed him. And I think he was gonna transfer just because of the reaction from, again, that crazy part of that fan base. And so I live for Ohio State. And I think because that vocal, newer fan says things that hurt these players and these coaches, I get defensive for them. I feel bad for them.

I feel bad that Ryan Day's son deals with stuff. And his wife who just talked with me one-on-one, asking me what I think, I mean, they're devastated. I'm talking devastated. And that hurts me for them that they deal with that. And that hurts me for them that they deal with that. And so when I speak out, I'm not just randomly speaking out. This is evidence and hardcore facts from players and coaches who confide in me because I've been around so long.

And I'm talking to them about my experiences. I'm encouraging them. I'm telling them that, listen, don't listen to that small percentage, even though they're vocal. You know, the Ohio State has some of the best fans in sports. Plug into that group.

They love you. They care about you. When you lose, they hurt for you. They're not ripping you to shreds. So you really go back and listen to what I said. I never was critical of Ryan Day and the team. I was more frustrated with the reaction from what these players deal with.

So, you know, I don't go... Have you guys watched me for 29 years in this era of shock jock and throw shit against the wall and who can say the craziest thing to go to go trending on Twitter? Like I've never done that in my life. I research and I give you opinion and you don't have to agree with it, but it's never an agenda. It's never like, you know, me getting upset about the playoff. And you think I'm a Big Ten guy.

I usually get accused, ask Andy, the SEC thinks I'm a Big Ten homer. They think I love Ohio State. You know, it's like, I guess when you do what I do at the level of that I do it for this long, I guess you just piss everybody off, you know, including your own fans. But I can say, wow, great play by Jeremiah Smith and someone from Ohio State said, yeah, now you like him or an SEC fan would say- Ryan Williams.

No. Yeah. Well, of course he's sitting there bragging on Jeremiah Smith. It's like, holy shit. I have, I have a perfect example of this and I had to talk. Look, all I'm doing, all I do while you're a dentist or whatever you do with your life, all I do is watch film and talk with coaches and players in this sport.

That's all I do. Sadly, that's my life. That's my existence. So I feel like for a guy that does that and he's not out here trying to get clicks, can I just have an opinion? Isn't that my job as an analyst to have an opinion? Now, you can disagree with it, but why don't, why, if I have an opinion, why does it have to be,

he's an SEC homer or he's an Ohio State homer. It's like, no, I'm just saying what I, let me, let me straighten the record on one last thing. You know, the ESPN loves the SEC so much that we could not have paid for a better Final Four with Notre Dame and Ohio State and Penn State and Texas. The only one missing is Michigan. If you could somehow wedge Michigan. So like this idea that we want Alabama and Texas A&M and Auburn

and are you kidding me? Like if you're asking us who we would want, we'll take Ohio State every year, Notre Dame. Like this is a ratings bonanza. So if you're going to accuse us of anything, you should accuse us of wanting Ohio State, wanting Notre Dame and these big brands. If you knew anything about ratings, that's who you want. You don't want these small little Clemsons and small little southern schools when it comes to cheering for ratings. Ratings are big, massive, big 10 brands. That's what ratings are.

And Notre Dame, who either people love or hate. Yeah, if you get Ohio State, Notre Dame in the national championship, you think we're going to be like, dog, got it, if we could only gotten a couple good brands in the championship. Just didn't work out this year. No, it's like, not that we have anything to do with it,

but that's not bad. Ohio State, Notre Dame, it's pretty good. Isn't have anything to do with it, but that's not bad. I was pretty good. Isn't this what I sound like when I'm yelling or not yelling behind the scenes that you have, like, I can't say anything right on Twitter. Like it eats me alive. Like, I don't even know. You too. So I read it.

I read behind the scenes of us. I did a long time ago. I don't have it. I just have a buddy. My son tweets stuff out or I, I don't, it's, it's ridiculous. Oh, this makes more sense then. Okay. I don't read anything. I don't see anything. Nothing. We put out our way too early. 2025 top 10. I knew the graphic was going out on Saturday. Just stay on. And I did. Cause I because my wife got on me years ago and she said, you're a miserable

person when you're looking at all that stuff and responding to people and it makes you a miserable person in real life. So just don't do it. Nope. No chance. I don't, I don't pay attention. I don't look at it. What's funny is we were at the Rose bowl.

Well, it was the first time, you first time we were back doing a college game since I made that comment after the Indiana weekend. And I heard from people, wow, everyone's upset. I said, about what? I don't even know what happened. What was going on? And they said, well, you made some comments about Indiana. I was like, what are they saying?

Well, you're an SEC. I said, when did I say anything about an SEC school? Because I didn't rip on Tennessee for being in the game. Is that what it was? Or I don't even know how I didn't say Ole Miss should be there or South Carolina should be there. I didn't say anything about the SEC, but I'm walking around at the Rose Bowl and I think I had, I don't know, by the time we were done walking through all

the area that we had to go, maybe a thousand people maybe that we were walking around, every single one of them, 100% were just so positive about the sport, so positive about the matchup. Just thank for what you do for college football. And it's like to me, that's what you should invest your time in. The people that are out there, they love it, enough of it. And I'm right there with them. I love it too.

I hate, I don't look for controversy. I don't like it. I don't, there are hate, I don't look for controversy. I don't like it. I don't, uh, you know, there are a lot of guys that look for it. You know, there are a lot of guys that say things intentionally to try to get reactions and try to, you know, be trending on Twitter. I, that's the last thing I want. So I just, I do my homework. I watch a lot of football and I give you an opinion. And you can disagree, that's great. I think that's just fun about it.

No, it just happened to me in my real life to peel back the curtain. I got into trouble with my wife yesterday and my wife said, there are times where you're in this house where you're looking at your phone and your daughter will be calling your name and you won't hear her. Or you'll be looking at your phone

when I'm talking to you and you don't hear what I'm saying. You gotta believe it. And you know what it is? It's Twitter mentions. Oh yeah. And when I'm locked in on that white noise, like I can't hear anything around me. And it broke my heart.

Cause it was like, wait, you're saying like my daughter saying daddy and I'm not looking. And like, what message am I sending to my own kid when I'm like listening to some random dude, call me an asshole for no reason. I'm like listening to some random dude call me an asshole for no reason. Yeah. And like, I think I'm, and I've never been a person that has been like, I'm not going to read it like I rate all the comments when we were at the athletic and we had comments on our stories. I read every Twitter and I actually think that my new year's resolution

is going to be to stop listening to the, or stop reading the comments because like, I don't want to be a miserable person in my own house. No, we just tell you, you know, I love your work, you know, I've spoken just like a friend. I would just tell you to either turn mentions off or delete the app. You know, like if, one of the great things about college football is that we're even having

this discussion because fans are so passionate that it gets you know sometimes irrational but wouldn't you rather have that? I love that than have people that are like you know I'm a Reds fan, I'm a baseball fan, people don't care nobody cares about the Reds. There's like seven of us, but there's not many of us that care about the Reds. And I feel bad for Major League Baseball because it's become such a regional sport from when I was a kid and you had big games that were national and everyone loved watching it. And now it's, you just, there's so many games on and people just kind of don't care. I, as much as it's tough to go through, Ari, I would encourage you to delete it. But at the same time, I don't begrudge any of these people that

come at us. I don't agree with their way of communicating. Obviously, I think it's easier for me to say it the way I'm talking right now because I don't read it. I don't I don't I deleted it, so I don't pay attention to it. But I I'm very appreciative of their passion. I'm very appreciative of their passion. I'm very appreciative of how much we all care about this sport. There's so much change going on. We're all kind of uncomfortable with all this change. We're all trying to experience it together and learn together.

A lot of nonsense off the field, but one thing's great, these pictures you're showing, fans showing up at these stadiums going crazy. And I, I, if that's what we have to deal with people being irrational and upset with us so we can have sold out stadiums and people going nuts, then I'll do that because I would hate not dealing with that and have empty stadiums and people just not caring. And I hope we never ever ever get to that because of all these changes. But I don't I just I guess I've been doing it so long it just doesn't it just doesn't bother me. And I just hope people will understand for me,

I never have been in anything other than the sport. I just love, like you guys, I love the sport. I don't love a conference. I love college football. And I just want the sport to get through all this chaos of realignment and NIL and Portal and the new 12-team playoff and just get back to just having it settled. And I don't know if we're ever going to get there again,

but I'm praying that we can somehow get some structure. Maybe this rev chair will help with that and we can just celebrate the sport and not get so caught up in it. And one of the last thing, when I was talking about Indiana, it was a bad example, because I didn't have enough time.

Don't take an SEC team, take another Big Ten team as an example. If Indiana, who had a great year this year, but they didn't play a whole lot of great teams. I mean, if you look at, if you went down the Big 10 at the top and Ohio State, then you would say, well, they must've played Oregon. No, they didn't play Oregon. Or they must've played Penn State. No, they didn't play Penn State. Or they must've played Minnesota. No, they didn't play. Well, they must have played Penn State. No, they didn't play Penn State or they must have played Minnesota. No, they didn't play.

Well, they must have played Iowa. No, I mean, you have to go all the way down. Michigan was the one team, but everybody else was at the bottom of the big 10 on top of their non-conference. And my point wasn't to pick on them. They just had a magical year. My point was, let's say you had a nine and three Iowa as a discussion. And Iowa that year went to Columbus. Let's say you had a nine and three Iowa as a discussion.

And Iowa that year went to Columbus, they went to Penn State, they went to Ann Arbor, they went to Eugene and they went to Madison. For whatever reason, they had five brutal road games in the big 10. And somehow, Kirk Ferentz got those guys to nine and three. I guess this is what my point was. Just because we get these teams that get to 11 or 12 wins, and you got a team like Iowa that's sitting there at nine

and three, and they went to those five road games I mentioned, I'm just saying, let's have a discussion on, is it automatically that you get to 11 wins so you automatically get in? Or should Iowa at 9 and 3 be looked at and say, oh my God, they went to Columbus at night? They went to Penn, like all the way that entire list of teams. That's brutal. And if the answer everyone's going to say is no, too bad, 11 wins is better, then what we're going to get to if strength of schedule isn't a big part of this, where you play and when you play, if that's not going to

be a part of this, then what we're going to get to is everybody's going to just basically dumb down the non-conference and play as easy of a schedule as you can and try to just get to those 11 or 12 wins. So I'm not, by the way, I'm not saying Indiana wasn't one of the best teams. I'm just saying I felt like the logic behind them getting in was 11 wins. And I guess my only thing on again on that is look in your own conference as an example,

take Iowa, take Nebraska, take Illinois, whoever, and imagine them as like some four or five really tough road games and get into a nine and three. I mean, you could make an argument. I feel like for a team with a really tough schedule, they still got the nine wins. That was all I was really saying, or at least have a discussion about it.

I didn't mean, that's all me for pointing to Indiana and using them without giving further information to whatever. Your explanation is actually much nicer than mine, Kirk, because Ari and I had this argument on the show. And I said, if you're just going to do it based on the loss column, Ari, it's all your fault we're getting shitty games in the future. Because you just made a bunch of ADs go,

I'm going to create the crappiest schedule I can. One of the ADs I've heard from when Indiana got in go. I'm gonna create the crappiest schedule I've heard from when Indiana got in was I'm never scheduling a tough game again And that was kind of that knee-jerk reaction. Yeah of frustration, but I mean FIU Western Illinois, you know Charlotte those kind of games were scheduled Well, you know way back when Indiana's just trying to get the six wins and go to a bowl game We get all that but I guess what we're saying is, let's just let's respect these teams that are willing to play in these late August, early September games. And you know, you're playing a heavyweight from

the Big 10 or wherever. And they big 10 SEC play together. Those are fun. It wasn't last year. LSU and USC. I know they ended up not being great teams, but those are games. We want those games as college football fans. The players want those games, right? We don't wanna just see chalk in those first three or four weeks.

So that's really what I was trying to say. And like I said, that's on me if I didn't do a better job of explaining that. And I didn't mean a better job of, of, of, of explaining that. And I didn't mean to come down on Indiana. I was really looking more at their 11 wins and their schedule. And let's not poo poo teams that really get tested and get to nine wins. Sometimes getting the nine wins and having a schedule you had as a pretty hilarious, pretty impressive effort to get to those nine wins.

Kirk, you might not have meant to, but when you that entire argument was the SEC, like that was like point one forever, like SEC is like South Carolina schedule. They were nine and three. They played a tougher schedule. Bama. Yeah. And the problem with that is, is like, I agree to a certain extent, that is, is like, I agree to a certain extent, but the SEC is rewarded already. And teams that play tougher schedules are rewarded. Like if there were a 10 and two team in the big 10 that had that schedule,

they would have gone over Indiana. Um, in Alabama, my Iowa example, not the SEC. Yeah. Or if there was a 10 and 2, big 10 team that had four tough road games and lost two, then the 10 and 2 team would probably go because the committee has already shown that they value quality wins. So like that to me, it's like, you're right. Like I'm with you.

But I think Indiana going was also a result of a devoid of another option. Like it's not like another team. You're right. There was another team out there that was 10 and two and had four top 10 wins that got left out because Indiana. Alabama had no shot. Alabama had, I don't know how people thought I thought Alabama. I was very clear leading up to it. How can you put Alabama in when they went and lost? Not only lost, they got embarrassed by a six and six Oklahoma team. So they really weren't in it. South Carolina lost to Alabama and Ole Miss.

It really wasn't, I'm with you, it wasn't like another team that anybody was like hitting the desk for, like this team has to be in. I didn't say that. I don't know who, South Carolina would have been the only team that you could have said, let's look at this team just because of the way they've kind of righted the ship. They've gotten healthy and they've been playing

good football near the end. They'd be Clemson at the end. I mean, you could at least have a discussion about them. I don't know, was there anybody out of the Big 12 or or the ACC? The reality wins, not with quality wins that were propping up. And the reason why Alabama was in the discussion because Bama beat Georgia. So, you know, I think Alabama, you know, illustrated something that Indiana was unable to illustrate this year, which is the ability to beat a team

that's in the top 10. Yeah, but they were using Oklahoma to me, just put a red X through them. And if they wouldn't have lost to Oklahoma, then they would have had the 10-2 record. They'd been in. Yeah. It would have been fine. Like there's nobody, like you're right. And what you're saying is correct.

The problem is, is that the entire SEC conglomerate of people were using this as a way to say, well, the teams that are nine and three in the SEC played a tougher schedule, so they should have gone in. And if you do that, then you're telling Indiana who, yeah, they played a crappy non-conference schedule, but they also played in the Big Ten this year. And that's just how their schedule, like they played the two teams that played for the national championship last year and both ended up stinking.

Like how is that their fault? You can't penalize teams for going 11 and one because they had a crappy schedule in the Big 10, because then at that point it's like, okay, well, if you're just gonna throw Alabama in there, then what the hell is Indiana's part of Indiana? Yeah, right. And that's the thing about this discussion

is I'm an easy guy to talk to. Like everything you're saying to me, 100% agree with. I think what happened was Linda Cohn caught me after I did a Thursday night game in LA with the Rams, flew red-eyed at Duke South Bend. We did a four and a half hour show for leading up to Indiana and Notre Dame, flew through the night to do Columbus, called the game. And then as I'm about to finally take my headset off,

hey, Linda Cohn in Sports Center need you. And you're just like, okay, all right, I got it. Okay, and then asked me questions. And again, I'm not making excuses, but I'm just saying I had a little bit of a reason. I had a little edge to me that I don't normally have just because I just want to go home and go to bed.

And when she just said that, I was probably a little bit edgier than I would normally be, but everything you're saying, I agree with Ari. And there was a team, there was an option A, B, C and D this year. You know, and I don't know if that's what you unintentionally just echoed the sec propaganda though. Well, no, but I, I didn't say anything about an sec team. I didn't say it just sounded like it.

It just sounded like what they were saying. That's why that's why I think people just project that now, now that the, the business side, cause you, you obviously don't control the business. Like you're not Burt Magnus or Jimmy Pataro. Like you're not making the contracts. But I do think now that ESPN, you have the SEC, the ACC and the Big 12 and the Big 10s on other networks.

And I think people just project that onto you now. I'm telling you, I'm bringing, I'm trying to, I don't know if I can stand up with lights. I'm telling you right now, I've never in 29 years, even had anybody from ESPN and I've never witnessed it. Hey, you know who pays the bills, make sure you get the SECs back. Like I've never, ever. Nobody does that. Like when I was in Sports Illustrated, people were like, I'm sure your editors tell you, you have to write about this.

Never. He's talking to two people who work at the New York Times or work at the New York Times in the middle of an election cycle. Like we get it, but we're with you. I don't know what everyone else experiences. All I do is this, like you guys do. So is that the Ravens in the Steelers chart or is that a is that a Texas Ohio State? This is Ravens Bengals from like week 11 maybe. I'm not sure what week it was. Over the last time you had him. Okay.

Yeah. So I'm just looking back. I keep all my boards. So I'm just starting to look at that. And before I talked to you, I was watching Ravens a little bit. But my point is I've never in my life had somebody say, Hey, you need to go. We have a deal now with the SEC. So you need to be pro SEC. Never in my life and never even a car. I don't even know who's in what league anymore. It never even occurs. I just I watched the teams and if truth be known, I'm an I'm a big 10 guy. Like I am cheering like crazy in these bowl games for big 10 teams. It's just the way I've been.

It's funny cuz I don't know. I don't know who's in any league either. Like, Texas is in the SEC. What are you talking about? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I went on Finebomb the other day, and he was acting like there were no SEC teams left in the playoff.

And I had to be like, Paul, in the SEC, and they're still in. Right. Like, secretly, you know how proud and excited I am that you have Ohio State and Penn State and Notre Dame, those are old school, other than Notre Dame, old school, Midwest, Big Ten schools. I mean, you have any idea, like that's a thrill for me because forever, and Andy knows this and down in the South, they look in the Big Ten like we're

second-class citizens when it comes to college football. So nobody understands this more than me. So I don't want to add to that perception in any way. But at the same time, the years the SEC is better or they have more depth in their conference, I'm going to say that they do. And this is the year that the SEC in the postseason obviously did not have a great run. There have been years where they have had a great run. Who knows where this future of all these new conferences is going. I just love that these big brands got a chance to go up against the little brands. Nobody, Boise State's in there, Arizona State's in there. It's been a year where everybody gets invited to the party and the teams have won. There's no subjective analysis.

They've won on the field and advanced themselves to the final four. And I personally thought Boise State, you know, so much about Genty. Genty, what are they gonna do if Genty can't run? I thought they, I know the score got a little bit out of hand, but I thought they competed pretty well. Arizona State, you don't even have to say anything more about down 24-8. I left our viewing area, went out in the Rose Bowl field, and we're out there for about 20 minutes,

and someone said, Arizona State tied it up. I go, what? They tied it up? It's 24-8. And it was 24-24 by the time I got up to the booth to call our game. I'm sitting there watching it over time. We started on ESPN to I'm, I'm calling the Rose Bowl and I'm watching the monitor looking at Arizona State. I mean, scat about what a story he was and Dillingham things differently. So anyway, there's more to life than the Big Ten and the SEC. If I've added to the perception that ESPN just loves the SEC,

because we love college football, we love stories. And that's really not anything that's on our mind in any way. It's not like, again, oh, we have the SEC. So think about game day this year. I was so worried that when this new contract started, we would stop going to Big 10 games where I would like to be, and we would just do SEC games. That was a big concern of mine.

And I talked with our bosses, Burke and those guys, about, hey, guys, we still got gotta go to the game of the week. No matter if it's Fox or CBS or NBC or us or whoever, I'm really, really, really proud of this year, our bosses sending us to places like Cal and wherever else we went. When it was televised by other places, other networks and we went. So if our agenda was just Don't you think game day would just go to SEC game?

I mean we went to be ten games all year and promoted So I think that's kind of a Reaction. I again, I apologize if I was part of that. That's not my goal in any way at all. And, um, well, that's why we're happier here, Kirk, because I think a lot of people are before we let you go, we do have to ask about the show game day because the dynamics changed this year, obviously with your new co-star Nick Saban. Yeah. What is it like when you've got Nick Saban and Pat McAfee simultaneously calling you a homer for picking Michigan? By the way, your son came to Michigan to beat Alabama and people were like,

take that SEC guy. I'm like, I picked Michigan. What are you talking about? Anyway, what is it like having them? I, you know, it's just, we are all self-deprecating. We kick each other in the shins, the whole show. I've known Coach a long, long, long time. There's serious comfort there with him and me and Pat and Des and Reese. I think it comes across on air. serious comfort there with him and me and Pat and Des and Reese. I think it comes across on air. I think people have learned that Nick Saban is not the guy at the podium with the Coke bottle and his hands going and getting mad at the media. I think he's shown that, you know, he's he's really prepared. He's really good at this.

He's having fun. He's completely just put himself right in the middle of the chemistry and a lot of the unscripted moments. He cusses every show, which every time he does, I forget that Pat changed the rules on that. So he's allowed to say words now all the time. But I'm not exaggerating.

I've never had more fun on the show in 29 years. I love it. I love Pat. I love what he brings, the energy that he brings. Des, just the whole thing, man. I thought when I took the Amazon deal three years ago that I would probably have to give something up because it's so hard to do all three of these things.

And then not knowing that Pat would become a regular and then obviously coach Saban would retire, I had no idea. But now man, you couldn't kick me off the set. Like I absolutely love it. We're having a blast. And I hope it'll last a long time, you know, having that group together that we have. And even Stanford Steve, man, he's been... It's one of our favorites.

Such a pleasure, honestly, like just as a guy. That role, you know, it's the betting stuff, but behind the scenes, guys, I don't know what it's like with you guys and your jobs, but those behind the scenes people, you know, when it comes to just the meetings and the grind that you get into and the lack of sleep, those positive energy people that just bring goodness to the show. I am indebted to those people like Stanford, Steve and so many others. So sorry to go on about game day, but we're in a great spot. I love having everybody that's on the show and hopefully we can keep it going all the way through the year and for the next few years going.

Well, that's I think you broke some news there. Like the idea of you might have not been on game day. Like you've been on game day since I was in college. So I can't even picture. I couldn't imagine turning it on and you not being there. So thank you, Nick Saban then. Well, Pat has had a lot. Yeah, Pat has had a ton to do with that from an energy standpoint. And you know, when you guys are doing your job and I'm doing my job, you get to week 13 and 14 and 15. It's strictly

on adrenaline and a love for the game and a passion for the sport. And the more prep you do, the more excited you get. And then you hit these walls, you know, from not sleeping much and like I said, having a guy like Pat around and there's others that I mentioned. It's huge when you can get energy from other people. I'm just beyond appreciative. Yeah, I thought about that, but I can't imagine not being on game day and it'll be year 30 next year. Man, I'm unbelievably blessed, really am having a blast. Well, Kurt, we've been blessed. Really, really am having, having a blast. Well, Kurt, we've been blessed to have you here for so long.

I said 10 to 15 minutes of my original text message and we have completely monopolized your time, but thank you so much. Yeah. Great to have you here. Really? Yeah. Thank you guys. Hopefully I didn't get any trouble, um, for talking to you guys.

I don't think you're okay. Like to you guys. I don't know. I think you're OK. Like, you're OK. We don't know. I don't think ESPN PR sends the nasty grams to you. Like, I think you're a little higher level. So thank you so much. Thanks, Kirk. Any time, if you guys want to do it before the championship,

let me know. Love to come on again with you guys. We are in. Awesome. Thanks so much. All right That is Kirk Herbstreet I Don't think he's getting in trouble for that Ari. I Interesting that you may announce your New Year's resolution of not looking at the mentions and

You broke that 12 seconds after the interview was over. You know these people who like are sports fans and will record a game that they can't watch live for whatever reason and then like shut off their phone and not look at what happened and then watch the game. I've never understood the mentality but I do know some of those people. Yes. Psychopaths. I have to know. I have to know everything. I will never stop looking at it but I will stop looking at it when my family is around me. That's a good idea. I think that's good. Like I would love to see and I'm sure they've already started doing studies on this. I would

love to see what the brain levels look like already started doing studies on this. I would love to see what the brain levels look like, what the dopamine levels look like when you're when you're in a fight in the replies because I think it really is almost like a drug reaction and I find when I can set the phone down and just not engage with it that. So here's I wanted to talk to you about this off the air, but I'm going to talk to you on it. Okay, go for it. We are not in a career where we have the prerogative to put our phone away for five hours. Correct. Like we like I can't part of my addiction to my phone is a constant fear that someone got fired.

Somebody committed. The sport is relentless in that. Right. But last night, after we talked, my wife and I, the other day, I put my phone on the counter, ate dinner, put my daughter down after we did that interview and like did not look at my phone for an hour and a half and it was nice. I was a little bit worried during that time because if you need me or you know on three needs something like II don't want to not be available or not see

something but like I can't even watch a show at night right now without looking at my Twitter mentions at 9 o'clock. And I'm going to be really, really much better about that. So, like, here's the thing that I was reading mentions during the interview. Oh, boy, that's always fun. And there were some people who appreciated it. And there were some people who thought we didn't ask him the hard questions. What are the hard questions with What are the hard questions?

I don't even know. With television personality Kirk Herbstreet. Like, I don't know, like, what are we, like, what were people, like, I told him. Did you order the code red? I mean, I thought it was pretty blunt about like the FCC-ness of his comments, right? And like, I can understand how somebody

who had not. I think part of it is because we are in the same field. Yeah. And do similar jobs. Get similar things lobbed at us though at a much lower level. We don't look at it with that mentality. So the person who thinks that Kirk Herbstreet is in bed with the SEC or who thinks that you are an Ohio state homer or whatever, however that their perception manifests itself. We can't really crawl inside your head because we're just doing the job. Like I may have said something mean about your team at some point because your team

did something dumb and Kirk Herbstreet probably said something mean about your team at some point because your team did something dumb. And Kirk Herbstreet probably said something mean about your team at some point because your team did something dumb. And I probably said something nice about your team at some point because your team did something good but you don't remember that because nobody ever remembers the nice things people say. I'm just as guilty of this. I just remember the bad things. The thing that people don't realize too and I thought that one of the revelatory parts of that interview was how when the Indiana comment that he made came up, he said, Oh, the circumstances around it. Yeah.

It's like guys were people. And sometimes you make a mistake or say something that's incorrect or dangerous or whatever. Like I say stupid shit all the time on accident. Like it happens. Um, and like, and if you talk into a mic enough, you will say something that pisses everybody off. It's like, listen, like I'm a big YouTube guy. Like I, I watch YouTube and like I conspiracies, like, I don't know who killed JFK, but I think like the the conspiracy theory.

Culture of like everything has some bigger person pulling the strings behind the scene. It's like not. Maybe he just said something that came across bad and was wrong. And like I don't agree with anything he said, but it's interesting if you go back to the original statement, he did not mention any alternative teams. Which are like he was and I told this to him on the show, he literally recited the SEC anthem on air.

It was. Yeah, it was. It was the SEC propaganda, though he didn't mention the SEC teams. Everybody just sort of filled in the blanks on that because you can't. Because the only teams that were in the discussion at that time were SEC teams. There wasn't a secondary Big 12 team or a secondary Big 10 team that was waiting in the wings getting an opportunity.

Maybe Miami you could have. You could have gone ACC with that, but like also too I can understand how somebody who has been working for 12 hours hasn't been engulfed in Twitter like you and I have listening to it like listening to what fine bomb was saying and Like could say that without realizing how it would be taken. Oh, I like I've done some radio hits too

Where I'm just like cooked and I'm not I don't want to hear it like I'm tired of answering the same question over and over and it's It's a very first world problem. I'm gonna say it right now. There isn't always some- But you do step in it sometimes when you do that. And there isn't some puppet master. We worked at the New York Times

and we got a lot of New York Times stuff about you're just working there now. Has anybody in your entire career at any stop you've ever been told you what to write or how to write it? One time, one time. I would love to hear that. I'll tell you it wasn't a what to write. It was a we're not going to run this right now because we don't. So it's funny because I was sports. Sports Illustrated never once told me write this don't write this ever ever Tampa Tribune I'm Covering the Florida beats my last year on the Florida beat It's Tim Tebow sophomore years the year he wins the Heisman Trophy I had done a bunch of Tim Tebow stories because I don't know you've noticed this over the years

but people tend to like to read about Tim Tebow and so I had done this story on the cottage industry of Tim Tebow merchandise that had popped up. And obviously this is 2007, so it's original NCAA rules. You can't, he can't make any money off this. All these other people are making money off him. I ordered it with my own money. I ordered a Tim Tebow koozie just to see how long it would take to get to me.

And so I did a feature story, nice breezy read about 1200 words that was about this burgeoning cottage industry around Tim Tebow. And the sports editor at the time goes, yeah, we think people are about Tim Tebow and the sports editor at the time goes, yeah, we think people are about Tim Tebow out. I was like, okay, I wasn't gonna argue at that point. I was like, whatever, you'll run this eventually because you're gonna have a hole and you're gonna need it and the story's done.

So they did end up running it like two weeks later. It would have been better to run when it was supposed to. But flash forward to two years later, I'm at Sports Illustrated and the person who made that decision gives me a call. So I've lost my job at the temperature beauty and I'm trying to find another job. I'm like, look, maybe not understanding what people want hurts you in that job.

Like that's the only time somebody's like, it doesn't happen. There is no giant puppet master saying, say this, don't say this, don't say that. Now I think with the SEC network, it might be a little bit different because they are actual partners in the thing. And so when people go on the SEC network air, maybe the conference, because I know like Mike Slive had to go to the president. They're not gonna have me on the SEC network is what you're saying.

Ah, they might. Well, they did. I mean, I don't think Peter Burns gets told what to say most of the time, but I do know that when Mike Slive was the commissioner of the SEC, he had to go to the presidents of the schools to get the okay for them to hire Paul Fine Ma.

Because there was a lot of resistance to that. Well. And here's the other thing, too, and like you're going to have to save me from saying something stupid into a microphone right now. I don't know anything about politics. OK, this is a politics. Oh, God, it's a politics free river. Get ready to cut the feed. Go ahead. I don't know anything. You know this about me. I'm not a very political person. I don't watch.

Oh, I don't know anything, but it's my understanding as an American citizen that your political coverage is given to you through a hue on either side. If you if you're a left person and you watch the left leaning media, you get it from that perspective. If you're a left person and you watch the left-leaning media, you

get it from that perspective. So I think that there is the political environment in our country, from my understanding of the way the media works in politics, has caused people to think that... Right. Yeah. And it's true. There are ones from either side that are trying to give it to you from that side. There are also people trying to do it down the middle comparisons. Like if the current event happens, yes, you get a Fox news 100% of business, right? It's 100% of business model and it works. Yeah, the headlines are different for the same thing.

Like I've seen that. Yeah. It's not all like that everywhere. Like, listen, we chose this because we love sports and sports aren't supposed to be that serious. And I understand that ESPN is making a lot of money in the broadcasting of these football games. There's a lot at stake for them.

I really don't think like what Kirk Herbstreet says on game day or whatever is gonna move the needle either way. People, they're buying a product that people are going to consume and we've said this all the time on the show. Like Alabama fans are going to watch the Alabama game no matter what television network it's on. When these television companies are acquiring properties, they're acquiring as close to a made asset as humanly possible.

Right. Like it's, it's a, it's a commodity and it's a very valuable commodity. And if you own Notre Dame's television rights or Ohio States or the big brands, you're going to get what you paid for, regardless of what your commentator says before, during, or after the game, because fans watch their team play and fans watch big time matchups, no matter who's in them. And the thing that I thought was the funniest thing of that entire interview was, is that like, as everybody is concerned about ESPN being the puppet

master for the sec, it's like the ratings wet dream. They're like, thank God we get to finally televised Ohio State Notre Dame. Ohio State Notre Dame potentially is like the biggest gold mine of a sales ad revenue situation that that network could come up with in its wildest dreams. So like it's fine. That said, you don't have to like Kirk Herbstreetreet You don't have to like me. You don't have to like Andy But I just want people to accept and know that if I write a negative Ohio State column That it's not because I'm coming from a place of hatred or love. It's a

Legit reaction to a real-life circumstance that happened about Ohio State But here's the thing and this is where I'm gonna stick up. This is where I'm gonna stick up for the people who get mad at you and the people who get mad at me. It's just like Kirk said, like they're the reasons that we have jobs that we have. When you or me or anybody writes

or says something negative about somebody's favorite school, it feels more like a personal attack on them than when somebody writes something negative about the green Bay Packers. And it's a Packers fan. Because they went there. It is, it is you are, you are attacking a piece of my identity and that's why the response is what it is. And I'm thankful for it. It's like it's great. Don't change.

What? And like, I don't get upset when people disagree with me. I get upset when people spew nonsense. So that that to me is the difference. It's like, okay, you don't agree with this take. That's your prerogative. It's a take and I'm not always right. And frankly speaking, I think I've done a hell of a job admitting when I've been wrong in the past because I'm always I'm wrong all the time.

Like if I was perfect at predictions, I would be in. We wouldn't do this right now. Smoking a joint on the side of the Pacific Ocean. Probably like, like, what am I like, you know, on my way to Malibu Nobu for lunch, like I don't, I live in Dallas and I have to work for a living and I'm doing my best. I'm doing my best and you're doing your best and Kirk's doing his best and it's not some big, you know, conspiracy theory of like, Oh yeah, well, we need to have an off season episode where we pretend an off season episode where we pretend

episode where we pretend there is a big conspiracy theory and like have the meeting just like the stonecutters episode of the Simpsons like yeah who's the who keeps the metric system down we do I can't imagine the size of the shit that ESPN executives had when Indiana came running down the pike. They must have just had so many restless nights that Indiana didn't lose.

Listen. They were fine because Indiana was going to South Bend and that was the first game that ESPN broadcast from South Bend since Notre Dame defensive coordinator Al Golden was playing on Penn State's defense. Andy, the thing I love about our show too, is that you and I have very different backgrounds and we were both beat writers at passionate places, but in different conferences. Yeah.

I think that you and I have very different perspectives while also viewing the sport the same way. So like I do feel like if you are an Indiana fan or a Big Ten fan, like I have given you a voice on this show for those people. And if you're an SEC fan, you have given them a voice and then sometimes we cross over and disagree and I'm the SEC voice and you're the bit I think that we've done a pretty good job of remaining. We've been very lucky in our

we've been very lucky to get to see a lot of this. And you find out where places are, because there are places that are very different. There are places that are very similar, like Ohio State, the fan base, the way everybody acts, the passion in the town is so similar to the big SEC schools. It's almost identical. I don't know they don't wanna hear that, but it's very similar. Michigan didn't always feel that way, but they kind of feel that way lately.

Yeah, the only identifiable difference that I see between Columbus and other SEC towns is that Columbus is a city. Right, which everybody- Nashville is a city, Baton Rouge is a city, Knoxville is a city. Yeah, Baton Columbus is a city. Right, which everybody builds a city. Baton Rouge is a city Knoxville, the city like city knock. Yeah, right.

But not everybody in Columbus is football crazed like it's right. There's there's some people that are just going about their daily business. Yeah, it's like the top 15 largest city in the country. Like it's a it's a big it's like Knoxville is a city in Baton Rouge is a city,

but they're not like major metropolitan areas with huge fortune 500 businesses and all over the place and stuff. So you're talking to somebody who lives in like a classic college town. So everything's a city to me. They're not college towns. And I think that the college town aspect of it, like Madison probably has more in common with the SEC's town than Columbus does, right? Yeah, I'd say so. It's a capital city. So it's funny. And I realize we're way off the rails now. But I get into this with people because I live in a true,

there would not be a town here if not for the college. So when people call Madison or Baton Rouge or Austin a college town, I'm like, no, no, no, no. Yeah, maybe not. So what's call Madison or Baton Rouge or Austin, a college, I'm like, no, no, no, no. Yeah, maybe not. So like, what's the most SEC big 10 college town? Bloomington, Oxford, Tuscaloosa, Gainesville, Athens, State College, for sure. Is is

the what the hell is the city? Ann Arbor is a great college town. Now it is East Lansing. East Lansing is East Lansing. Um, suburb of a capital city, but yes, but East Lansing is Athens. No, what East Lansing is a much bigger metropolitan area than that. Bloomington Bloomington and Athens are probably more similar. Bloomington and Athens are very similar, like 50 minute

drive from a major city, but kind of very self-contained. Yeah. I forgot East Lansing there. That's hilarious. I've been there a hundred times, but yeah. Um, so, you know, like, like the thing that I want to, I just want to say though, is that like, if you're a person who watched that interview and they're like get him.

I don't even know outside of pointing out to him why his takes fell on deaf ears or bad ears or whatever you want to say. Like I don't know what you were expecting. So sorry if you were upset that we didn't hold his feet to the fire. No, it doesn't matter what interview you do. There's always somebody who thinks you're going to be Mike Wallace and break him down and they're gonna start crying and Admit to like selling nuclear secrets to the Russians like It happened very often Yeah Yeah, so but I had a great time with him and I don't think her curb Street has ever sold nuclear secrets by the way

He might have depending on whether or not the SEC has anything to do with the production of nuclear weapons. I don't know. He's telling to. All right. All right. We got to talk a little prize picks. I have a price picks math problem here.

And you realize that we are a bad at math podcast. So best daily fantasy game in America. Download the app, use the code staples, play $5, get $50 instantly. So I'm looking at the Quinn URs passing yardage number on price picks. And it's 238 and a half. You decide if it's gonna be less there, more than, that's one square, you pick at least two squares,

the more squares you pick, the higher the potential payout. All right, so that's the deal. I'm looking at the receiving yardage totals on prize picks for the Texas receivers in this Ohio State game. And we've talked a lot about this, Ari, where Ohio State's defense, the last two games against teams that are pretty good at throwing the ball, Tennessee was OK at it, Oregon was excellent at it,

neither one could get anybody open against Ohio State. So I'm looking at the receiving yardage totals So Quinn yours has got to go got to go up to 200. What did I just say 238 and a half? so We've got Deandre more 26 and a half Gunner helmet 43 and a half Jaydon blue at 14 and a half Matthew golden at 64 and a half and he's had he's been the best of the Texas receivers the last few games Ryan Wingo at 21 and a half and Trey Weissner at 18 and a half and he's had he's been the best of the Texas receivers the last few games. Ryan Wingo at 21 and a half and Trey Weissner at 18 and a half. I'm not great at math Ari, but

none of the like all those numbers together don't add up to 32 38 and a half. Where's the rest of it coming from? That's a good question. I never thought of that. I don't know. I realize our friends at price picks. There's probably a quant that works there who can explain. Well, the way this works with receivers is always some guy who overachieves and some guy who underachieves and so it's also we're both running where it's going to come from is like, what's that the running backs to there? I did. I did. Oh, yeah.

J down blue and Trey Weissner were in there. Yeah, that's the thing too. It's like they all have their numbers Andy, but one would probably far exceed that, which then brings you to the total like just because that's where the number is set. I don't know that necessarily like Ryan Wingo who has a very low number.

His numbers 21 and a half yards on the first play of the game for for instance. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that, like, here's the actual, now that I'm thinking about it, here's the truth. And it's kind of the same thing I think you get with, on the Ohio State side of this too, is like, when a team has a ton of players who kind of trade places of being the man that game. It's hard to set the line like that's like Jeremiah Smith's numbers pretty low for this game and it's like well they also they also don't have an Isaiah Bond number which I can understand because he's had injuries and you're not really sure what it's going to be today? Not who's going to like who's who's going to be the guy today and this is my question for you. Given the what we've seen from Ohio State's defense these last

couple of weeks, is it possible they just aren't getting there? So I've been texting with a friend this entire show that is like one of my good buddies here. Shout out David. He's a huge Texas fan, right? And he texted me, I haven't listened to your prediction show yet, but. He probably shouldn't. I said, I said, you probably shouldn't. He goes, but Texas is going to win. And okay. I kept pushing back at him and the Texas fan. What's the path? Like I, I, I'm, I'm legitimately curious. I, cause I, I've said what I think that the Texas path, the winning is, and it's

obviously the defense continues to play great, but the offense does not hit one of those lulls that they are consistently scoring throughout the game. Uh, the, the team we saw that you and I saw in Ann Arbor that ran the ball effectively, which allowed the passing game to be explosive. Like that's that's the team that can beat Ohio State. I'm going to reach you his path. OK, alright, because I do like talking to people who are like close to the team. OK, yeah, here you go David. Here's your. Here's your shot. He goes. I see unilateral support of Ohio State minus six. Literally

everybody thinks Ohio State's gonna cover That's good news for us Including from the Texas side people Texas fans also think they're right We have great defense a Thorpe Award winner Sark calls a decent game We get our two-minute offense running offensive tackles going and Quinn yours has a good game. It's gonna be a low-scoring game Will Howard it may not be a low-scoring game like his's gonna be a low scoring game. Will Howard. It may not be a low scoring game. Like his thought, this is his thought.

Okay, okay. As they still have Ryan Day, Will Howard ain't shit. We've beaten him 10 times. My take is that Ohio State is great. It's the semi-finals and they're the favorite to win it all for a reason. But people often suffer from recency bias,

especially in sports. Texas has a Georgia linebacker problem. That is it. We have dudes everywhere too. You know that. We also have a better quarterback and coach. He knows that Will Howard, like, it's not just Deuce Vaughn that he's handing off to anymore.

He does. I've been pushing back at him, but I'm just, I'm just giving you his thoughts. Then he says, we have a Sark problem when we're ahead. He tightens up. Maybe some of that was, it was not having Williams in the run game, less triple spin fake reverse screens,

the backup tight ends against this OSU team, more spread it out and let Quinn do his thing. We have all got weapons. I'm on my fourth Zen and fired up right now. It's still at 30 as a tech. I don't see this, the path working the same way as he does. I don't see it work. Like I don't, I just don't see this the path working the same way as he does. I don't see it work like I don't I just don't see them holding

Ohio's this Ohio State to a low score because Unless they just lose their minds again and forget Jeremiah Smith's on the team, which I don't think they're gonna do I think they're probably gonna score so but a Texas front a Texas offensive line, which we have seen this against a really good defensive line already with Michigan, like that opens holes that pounds you up front. That that team can win. That team can win that cover when here's the

here's the deal Andy and the one thing that he said that struck me is true is in sports. We especially me. This is something that I struggle with. I am a prisoner of moments. Okay. Yes, when things are happening, I know I've known moment. Yeah, like I get really fired up about what's going on in the

moment. I know that's something I need to work on. The entire world thinks what I think right now. Like I'm not providing anything to you. Yeah, and this is that this is the part that I've pushed back on you with Ohio State is that we've seen it two games. We've not seen it 14 games. We've seen it two games. We've not seen it 14 games. Yeah. And like it's possible I need to go look at like what the percentage of the plays are in terms of like the public as the line isn't moving. And if all the action was moving.

To Ohio State, you would expect that the line would would creep up to seven, maybe seven and a half. But usually when everybody thinks something is going to happen, that thing doesn't happen. So we'll see. Texas has a lot of really good players and I picked them to win the national championship before this started for a reason. Like I don't want to get so caught up in the Ohio State is amazing conversation that we lose sight of Ant Hill and Colin Simmons and Isaiah Bond and Quinn yours and two really good running backs in Kelvin Banks and all that like Texas has a lot of really good players too.

Texas loaded. They are loaded. Ethan Burke is not even officially a starter for Texas and would start for pretty much every other team. They have a lot of really good players. So with and like the thing too is and we didn't talk about this and like listen pal I got nothing going on. can do this this episode for another hour if you want Well JD needs to needs to come on at some point. So no we got 14 minutes. Who's got the coaching edge?

Don't necessarily think they're that sarc has a coaching edge over Ryan I was talking about this with with my friend Patrick Maher and Dustin Sweetilson yesterday. They just started their new show on Mad Dog Radio on Series XM. Plug for them because they're awesome. They're doing the new night show on Mad Dog Radio on Series XM. And Patrick, he's the most down on James Franklin

of any human being I've ever met. But he's also very down on, like he's down on every coach that every fan is down on. Except like 10 times as much. So he hasn't let go of any Sark USC stuff. He hasn't let go of any Ryan Day stuff. He hasn't let go of Sark USC stuff? No, like whatever negative about a coach,

he just, he absorbs it and holds it. And so he's like- That's like my wife getting mad at me for ghosting a girl in high school. What are you talking about? No, but that's what he's like. He's like one of these coaches who we all think is a dumbass is going to win the national title. I'm like, maybe they're good coaches, Patrick. Yeah. I mean, I think Sark is completely absolved of his USC.

I think so too. I think we're dealing with a different person now. Yes, completely different. Like, yeah, I felt that it was a weird hire when they hired him. I'll admit. But I love what he's done there. And that's why we were laughing about the Jimmy Sexton, you know, throw the Adam Scheffer bomb out there. And if all teams are like, I know you're trying to get your guy a raise, but.

What he's done to put Texas in a position to be here, every single year is exactly what you want. And even if they don't win it this year, let's say they lose Friday or they win Friday and they don't win the national title, he's gonna have them back here pretty much every year if he keeps doing what he's doing, let me just talk to you. My wife, babe. So sorry for trying to make out with Sharon Silverstein to Camp Ramon 2002.

Like really, really upset about that. Oh, my God. Go, go, but it is interesting. I hadn't thought about it this way, but all four of these coaches have their demons or were there things that in the past we've, we've dinged them for and somebody's going to be, I don't know about absolved vindicated, but somebody's going to be holding that lipstick. When if James trophy, if James, if James Franklin beats Notre Dame.

Yeah. Shut up. If Ryan Day wins the national championship shut up about 98% of the things. There's one thing you can still talk about. Michigan fans, you should hold that over his head until he he shows he can win that game. If Sark wins the national championship, I mean like the discourse about Sark coming into last year was the man has never won ten games in his entire career. That was the number one like counterpoint. Yeah, playoff picks before. Yep. It's like well, you know

what? Nothing happens for the first time until it happens pal like like it and like I'm like been more critical of James Franklin of anybody on Earth and it's like there's still part of me that is skeptical. It's like, I'm like been more critical of James Franklin of anybody on earth. And it's like, there's still part of me that is skeptical. It's like, okay, they had the easiest possible path. Uh, if they go out and lose to Notre Dame, how much really changed? Or was it just an advantageous situation? Like I'm with you, I'm there. But if he goes out and wins, shut up.

And that's the cool thing about like having new blood in here. Like it's a chance to change the narrative. It's like it's like when Kirby Smart sent all 1980 jokes into the sun. Like you never have to worry about those again and like it's not funny anymore. It's not true anymore. It's like or or Jim Hardball retired every Michigan joke last year. Let me throw this out here to you. Of all the teams that I think can beat Ohio State in this year's field that are remaining, I think Texas is probably

the best most likely to do it. Is that a fair statement? Best equipped. That makes sense. Yeah, but what if? Ohio State beats Texas, Penn State beats Notre Dame and the title game is Ohio State, Penn State and James Franklin breaks is inability to beat Ohio State in the national championship game.

Like that is out there and it's not like, like, listen, I don't Ohio State beats Penn State every time they play for the most part, but the games are always close and they're competitive and there's familiarity Like all the matchups like Ohio State would probably much rather play Notre Dame right like you know so mad I wasted my my Good to elite column You go for the regular season It would actually hit a lot harder if that's the matchup next week. But like I think Ohio State would rather play Notre Dame because you don't want that familiarity that that intimate

relationship between two programs like what if Ohio State loses to Penn State because I mean, I don't know that it's any better if it's Notre Dame because they did play last year in a very close game and Marcus Freeman is a son of Ohio State like yeah, no, I know. He's a former Ohio State player who grew up in Dayton. Like, and maybe, maybe the exact opposite would happen and they would play Penn State and James Franklin would just like melt because they can't beat Ohio State and it would be like the Michigan version for them.

But like there are a lot of really crazy scenarios that are still at play here. I know we have four teams left, but guys, we are at the point. Now where the playoff would have just been starting last year. So like we're getting all the, like this is, if we wouldn't have Notre Dame in this, it would be the matchups. This year would have been weird. I know Ari thinks they would have voted differently. I don't think they would have.

They would have, it would have been really weird this year because it would have been one semi would have been rematch to the sec title game and one semi would have been rematch of the Big 10 title game, which that never happened before, right? I don't think that's where both were rematches. No, wait, no. Well, and even when we had the rematch like, yeah, when Georgia played Alabama, that was in the national title game. That wasn't they didn't immediately rematch in the semis. So it is, it would have been very strange had there been a 14 playoff this year. But yeah, the possibilities right now still feel pretty fascinating. If Texas beats Ohio State, then you have three, no matter what happens, whoever wins the national title is like first time on the block type of thing. Yeah. Although

I wonder, I wonder how long it like Ohio State has to go without winning one before they revert back to being a New kid on the block like they're in the playoff every year, but they haven't won one. Well, yeah, I mean for Notre Dame in Penn State We're talking about Since the years. Yeah. Yeah, so Texas 2005 I mean, that's that's the craziest part is the Texas national title is 19 years ago That's a long time world Yeah, yeah, I know I know I just remember I was sitting in a hotel room in Providence, Rhode Island I was about to cover a Florida road Florida Providence basketball game

Billy Donovan's triumphant return to Providence and I get a call from my editor At the Tampa Tribune saying, hey, one of our columnists has a family thing that came up. Would you want to go cover the Rose Bowl? And it was the Texas USC Rose Bowl. I'm like, yeah, I had never been to California in my life. So I landed LAX at like 10 o'clock at night. From Providence? Is that where you flew from?

No, no, not directly from, this was like a month before. Talk about a nice little break. But no, I fly out there, land there. This is when the Beverly Hilton was the media hotel for the Rose Bowl. Electric, electric, electric. Beverly Hilton is where they hold,

I don't know if they still do, but they used to host the Golden Globes there. And, like, so you're, like, I walk, I got there at night, everything was dark, didn't see anything. The next morning I walk out, I turn right, there's Rodeo Drive, I'm like, what, what is this? What the hell am I? Yeah.

What is this? And then that game was just unbelievable. Vince Young, incredible stars on the USC side. One of the greatest games ever played and that's what I had somebody yell at me when I was saying that all the playoff games up to the championship need to be on campus and the Rose Bowl needs to be the national title game every year and the person said yeah but the Rose Bowl has to be on January 1st. I'm like, I attended the greatest game ever played there. It was on January 4th. It worked out just fine. There also was a Rose Bowl in Dallas. So things can change.

Okay, yeah, there was one. My God, like, but that was 19 years ago. Feels like yesterday, but 19 years ago, I want to shout out Chris Vanini, our old colleague at the athletic when the Rose Bowl was at. Jerry World here during COVID, yes, and he tweeted the sunset over the Walmart next to Jerry World and said, do you remember that beautiful Rose Bowl sunset? One of the funniest tweets I've ever seen in my life. Good job. Yeah, I think I think the Jerry World is next to a Walmart. It is is one of the greatest things about America

that there is like if I need to go get some like some camo to go hunting and Cover a Cowboys game or a bowl game that I can just walk 24 hours a day It's it's amazing. Walmart's a great I I own stock in Walmart.

I want you to know that it's great. Well, the Broncos thank you. Uhm, alright, why don't you? I JD is going to be on here in four minutes and I'm going to keep going. I'm fired up right now for some reason. I know I listen. I'm enjoying it.

I I like loose Ari. Lucari is my favorite Ari, but I realized we had mentioned that we were going to defend our way way way way way way too early. 2025 top 10. That was going to be today. We weren't sure when we were getting Kirk. So I know I teased it for today. We're doing that tomorrow. Wendy's Saucy's Take Wednesday and our Saucy takes are that top 10. You've seen it. You know it's saucy. We will defend ourselves. I will also point out a potential mistake that we made that as the days go by, I'm regretting more and more and more. I've got one too. We'll talk about it tomorrow.