Andy & Ari On3 - Lane Kiffin’s BRILLIANT idea for the College Football Playoff

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

The SEC Spring Meetings are winding down in Destin, Florida, but Lane Kiffin didn't leave without sharing his thoughts on the state of college football and the College Football Playoff. The Ole Miss head coach suggested that the 16-field College Football Playoff should just be the best 16 teams in all of the sport. Andy & Ari find this fascinating and take a deeper look into what it would look like. (0:00-1:24) Intro(1:25-11:06) Lane Kiffin's Big Idea(11:07-22:28) All-Media CFP Committee(22:29-35:29) Brian Kelly on SEC-Big Ten Games(35:30-51:06) Ralph Russo from the Athletic joins(51:07-1:01:08) Future of the CFP(1:01:09-1:02:53) Conclusion Later in the show, Ralph Russo of the Athletic joins the show and shares his over-arching thoughts on the landscape of college football and where the Big Ten and SEC really hold the power in regards to a 16-team CFP field. Watch us LIVE, M-F at 9:30 am et! https://www.youtube.com/@On3sportsHosts: Andy Staples, Ari WassermanProducer: River Bailey Interested in partnering with the show? Email [e-mail] 

Well, Annie and Ariane 3, I am still here in the Redneck Riviera at the SEC Spring meetings where all everybody's complaining, but I tell you what Ari, I heard one idea that I kind of dismissed because, well, I'm realistic and I've listened to these people complain for a long time, but the more I thought about it, the more I'm like, this guy's a genius and you know who that genius is? It's Lane Kiffin. Uh, yeah. I mean, anybody who, uh, you know, comes up with a merit based system, uh, is good with me.

I actually had a phone call with somebody, uh, earlier today. Um, and it just was like a reminder of how old we're getting because, uh, this person, uh, went down the, down the same rabbit hole I always go down, which is merit based system, no participation trophies. And I sound like an old person who's just constantly screaming at clouds. But I feel like as we continue to give Mulligans and second chances and expand the playoff and demean the importance of the regular season, all these things that like we're like basically like bastardizing the entire point of the concept of competition, which is why they play the game to begin with. So like anything that can promote being a

winner and a loser, I'm all for. Um, and I think that this might do that. I don't know. Does this do that better? I know that you're like, but here's Lane Kiffin's idea. You ready? You ready? Yeah. Have a 16 team tournament with the best 16 teams. Just number one through number 16, put them in a bracket and play. And I realized like, and Lane said this too, Lane's like, well, we probably have to examine how you determine best. And I'm like, oh God, here we go again. Yeah. Your idea of best, my idea of best probably be different, but you put 13 people in a room, tell them to pick the best teams

and they get to go all the way down to 16. I don't think you're going to have a ton of arguments about one through, I don't know, 14. Yeah. 12 or one through 12. Yeah. I mean, so argument about 12 and then, but then maybe you would have three more for, I'm just trying to think about last year's model. But yeah, I think that can I say something controversial, Andy, that wasn't controversial until this past year or maybe the last two years? Yes, please. The college football playoff committee

does a great job and they get it right every year. I'm not going to argue with you about that. I think there are a lot of people who think they got it wrong because their favorite team got screwed one year. I forced it, obviously. Their fans really think they got screwed. Me and you sitting here together, you know, you have that nice, beautiful SEC banner behind you. Oh boy, snub it. I've got my big 10 stadiums behind me. Okay, so we, you know, this show really balances it out. But the but between you and me who have no actual fight in this discussion can agree and I think most people can that the committee has done a fine job. No, I and I think you could take 13

people and put 13 people together who reasonably know college football and they'd probably come up with the same results every time. Like I don't think we need to over think the computer and strength this. I mean all these men or

if you had a computer doing it, the computer would probably come up with similar results or or the Who should be on the committee? I think I would just sum it up by after all the data and analytics, you know, about they were these different systems over the years who would be left out. Would it be in, well, that was 12, 16, uh, system. And just appeared to me that still flaws in every system. The best system should be 16 and should be the 16 best and I don't know exactly how that's figured out I think that you've got to use some of the indexes and have people not to make some in here probably media people that watch the most that are on it and don't have

any other motives in it and figure out the best 16 teams because we obviously can't play enough games over that you know to be 32 or 64 or something to figure out the best but I think is You watch this year in sports and now baseball soft, after men's basketball. You know, so many dominate, whether it's the final eight or 12 or 16 with SEC teams. There are systems that are figuring that out. And I think a lot of that time, a lot of that has to do with the non-conference amount of opponents they play. Obviously, we don't have as many games, so we can't do that. Because you see, you know, Currensmit's baseball, these teams

that have made it this far that have SEC and conference records just a little bit over 500. So I think that would be the best way to do it. Get rid of automatics and figure out a system and get the best 16 teams in. What a novel concept. And here's a bonus to that. Lane didn't say this. I'm saying this.

How about not some weird 16 team bracket with a double buy and it takes two hours to explain and even longer to comprehend. How about a 16 team bracket where one plays 16 two plays 15 three plays 14 that everyone understands Ari. Let me let me give you what the games would have been last year in the first round. If just this is very basic simple bracket just taking the top 16 teams you ready number 16 Clemson at number one Oregon number nine Boise State at number eight Indiana number 12 Arizona State at number five Notre Dame number 13 Miami at number four Penn State number 14 Ole Miss at

number three Texas number 11 Alabama at number six Penn State. Number 14 Ole Miss at number three Texas. Number 11 Alabama at number six Ohio State. Number 10 SMU at number seven Tennessee. Number 15 South Carolina at number two Georgia. Ari, who says no to that? So like this actually just kind of hit me right now as we're doing this, because we've been talking about this all morning and I've been reading your texts and I know you're in the thick of it. And it is kind of hit me right now. Uh, as we're doing this, because we've been talking about this all morning

and I've been reading your texts and I know you're in the thick of it. And it is kind of funny to me that like we have like gone the long way from the 14 fields to the 16 field and like we've had to have some bad ideas and we've had to try the 12 team or in the middle. And we're just going to arrive at the thing that everybody would have been vehemently against had they proposed it after 14 era, right? And like, yeah, the thing that I think that is interesting about this idea is that this isn't what they're going to do. And that's what pisses me off. No,

I know. But the thing with this idea though, that I think is interesting is that it doesn't have the features of the 12 team playoff, which was rewarding conference champions, which was the number one argument for prioritizing. Oh, countryman Frere, it rewards the conference champions or rewards the the highest ranked teams by allowing them to play lower seeded teams first. No, no, but what I'm saying is tournaments are supposed to you are you're right because when you get the 16 all-power

conference champions are probably gonna be in this. But with the guaranteed automatic bids and buys, that was the selling point that the people who were pro expansion was giving the people like me who are afraid of the college football regular season becoming less important as a way to,

you know, kind of preserve that. That regular season means something, battling for your title in your conference means something. You get a reward at the end of it and it's like, well, you know, this would just be a just blanket expansion to 16, which would then lessen the importance of the regular season. And then at the same time too,

not even give anybody who won their conference any more of a benefit than they would have gotten in the old system. So if you want to do it this way, my perfect way would just do it at eight. Mm hmm. You could do that. Eight. But like I do like the idea of everybody knows who the best teams are. Everybody has eyes. If you are a fan of a team, you might not be able to see it as clear through your bias. But people who look at this just from a lens of who's good, it's not that hard to figure out.

And the thing that I love the most about Lane Kiffin saying the media should do it is because my number one dream in life, as I shared with you earlier, is to be on that committee. And I think that the problem with the committee at times and the problem with the politicking on how to go about the expansion and the setup of the of the playoff is the people who are in charge of this have ulterior motives and interests. They have their, you know, their conference at heart, and they have to recuse people and all these things. And I'm sure if I were on the committee, people would be like, he can't be in the room when you talk about Ohio State, because they think I'm a homer, and you would find ways to do it. But I wouldn't have anything to gain, win or lose, nothing

financial. I mean, this happened in the NCAA tournament this year. They had, you know, the Final Four team or the last team in. The North Carolina AD. The North Carolina AD was on the committee and you got all the, and it just like put people in a position, because I do believe this. I have a lot of respect for the people who are on the committee. I think they do a good job. But here's the thing

about the committee. It is basically done on autopilot because you're ranking based on a set of data points. And the data points are very cut and dry for the most part. Like I feel like a robot. You do like 90. It's not like the basketball committee or the baseball committee where they have these massive sample sizes of regular season games where there's tons of non conference games to help help you compare the different conferences. help you compare the different conferences. But me and you can do it as good as they could. I think me and you can do it. You did it better than they did last year. We did it better.

And I actually think, you know, not to even be on a high horse here. This isn't a high horse podcast, but I think there's listeners to our show who can do just as good. Like, I don't think you have to be in the media or somebody who's connected to the sport in order to do it. I think that, you know, last year Oregon would have been the number one seed for everybody. Like there's no debate about that. You know what I mean? And the longer, the further down the list you get, you know, the harder it becomes because, you know, the teams look more

and more similar. But for the most part, it's who did you beat? Where are they ranked? What's your record? What conference do you play in? And then you just fill the pieces. It's not that hard. It really, and that's why they always arrive at the right thing It's so easy an entire committee of media members could do it and Ari you've already volunteered I can tell you right now. I Want no part of this if if elected I will not serve like no no chance Let somebody else's house get burned down. I've seen pissed off fans. I don't wanna be that guy who does the pissing off.

Like, I don't wanna have control over whether I piss them off or not. So, you are more than welcome to be on that committee. I will happily yell and scream about the bad decisions that I believe you've made on the committee. And I'll know which ones are yours and which ones are somebody else's. But let's try to populate the committee here. We gotta get to 13 so we've got one Ari Wasserman number one and committee chair Ari Wasserman has accepted.

Yes. Okay, I'm used to getting like mean things said to me to like I've got probably as much alligator blood as anybody in the media because I tend to always be in the middle of the civil discourse online. But here's the guidelines I wanna put on this too. Cause I want you to help me with this. You have so many friends, you have more friends, you've been doing this longer, you know people that I don't know. The question that I have for you is,

do we have to take media members from the way that they kind of do it and spread it around with the real committee and do it based on region of where they live. Because I do think that there are media members who are programmed to think a certain way based on who they've covered in the past. Like, I'll be honest with you, and I don't know, maybe this is bias, but a lot of my opinions and a lot of my ideals as it pertains to the sport were formed because of the Columbus, Ohio dome. I was in for a decade of my life as I was a growing journalist.

And I think that like a lot of times I actually have blind spots for a Georgia Tech fan or right or you know, same as me as a young reporter. I worked in Knoxville and I worked in Gainesville. So obviously, yeah, you so you should spread it around. Yes. You would want people who probably began their careers covering smaller schools because they have seen a perspective. Or, well, let me ask you this. Like Joel Klatt, who I think is one of the smartest people who covers the sport, he lives in California. He played at Colorado. Like, how does that work? Because everybody went

to school somewhere. We're still going to face that. So let me start you. I'm going to start you with a trio. Because one, I think these guys are really smart. But also, I want to make sure you have a good time in your meetings. Because obviously there's going to be a buffet. We're going to need people who like to like to chat out a little bit. So let me give you the first three members of your committee. You ready? Yep. Cole Kublick. Yep. Aaron Taylor Gabe Eichard. So for those who don't know Cole, former Alabama, former Auburn Center, lives in Alabama, does a radio show in Alabama, and then obviously works for ESPN as well. Nobody describes and explains trench play better than Cole.

And I think he's got a great view of how the sport works. Aaron Taylor, the offensive lineman's offensive lineman, played at Notre Dame, is the guy, he's the biggest proselytizer for offensive lineman helped create the Joe Moore Award love him gay biker played center in Oklahoma he works on the Oklahoma broadcast crew now but we're gonna run into that sort of thing but he see he played in the big 12 he now deals mostly with a team that's in the SEC so he's got a couple different perspectives on it.

And again, the buffet will be right. Yeah. So I can be in charge of the buffet. Like I don't need anybody else to help me with that. Well, I also think those three would give you a really good perspective. I just, I think the more offensive linemen the better. It's not an all offensive line prospect here.

I think there will be plenty of other people. For example, I think from the Big Ten Network, I would pick Joshua Perry, who you know very well from Ohio State, and Dave Revson. I think those two would be awesome on the committee. Yeah, I also think I would pick somebody like Chris Vanini, who is like the Super 5 Wizard, who is very oriented. He's at the Athletic and very oriented with like numbers and the perspective

of the smaller teams too. Because as much as you think and know that the top 16 teams in the country are typically from the power conferences, you do want the people on there that have an eye and understanding of how the lower level works. That also is very familiar with big time football as well. And I think that he would be a pretty good fit. Um, and I think you would have to do like some, some writers, some report, uh, some podcasters, some TV personalities and some radio. But he'd want to, let me, let me give you another one. This is a data guy and he's, we've had him on the show before Parker Fleming stats of war on Twitter. He he'd want to start. Let me give you another one. This is a data guy. And he's we've had him on the show before. Parker Fleming stats of war on Twitter.

He's the one who creates those great pregame sheets from his power rankings where you can you can see what essentially you'll understand why the Vegas spread is why it is or if his is off from the Vegas spread. You can kind of figure out maybe Vegas is missing something. But Parker would be a good one. Cause I do think you need a serious numbers cruncher on there too. For sure.

And like the thing that people don't realize as much as we say it on the show Andy, and we both have gone through the mock committee. I actually want to do it again this year with the 12. Cause I did it in the four era. Did you do it in the four era? I think you did it in the four era. I did it in the four era.

I never did it in the 12 era. Yeah. I'd like to do it again in the 12 era. And the thing that sucked about my experience was that they did 2014 in my mock. And I was like, I covered that every word of everything that was told about that. So it was hard to not. We did 2008, which was a very complicated year. I mean, doing 2014 when we knew the results and it was like, it would have been cool to do 2014 before we knew what happened. Like going back and knowing,

like it was easy to put Ohio State in because we all knew what happened. And you can't go back in time. But like I got called a degenerate by the committee chair that year because I kept asking about Vegas lines while we were doing it. I thought Bill Hancock called you a degenerate.

I didn't realize it was him. It wasn't Boog Morgan, it was Bill Hancock called you degenerate. I didn't realize it wasn't okay. Boo Borg and it was Bill Hancock. I wasn't the chair. It was him. But like, yeah, he called. He's like, What are you with degenerate? And everyone in the room was like, Yeah, dude. Yes. Yes, he is. Um, but like, the the thing that I would own there, somebody like we put Tyler Shoemaker on it. Yeah, yes. You put somebody on there who doesn't even look at the helmets

or the logos and just has a power rankings based on the results of the games of who they believe are the best teams. And then you could use that I'm not saying he would make any decisions, but he would use that as a guideline. I think that people don't understand about the mock playoff committee thing that we did that I forgot to tell you after being down the road of the degenerate story is that they give you a binder this thick of charts and stats and numbers and rankings and things

like they have every single possible ranking or metric known to man outlined for them on screens and in binders for them to review. So they are watching the games and then they watch the games. They have their preconceived notions on what they see on TV and then they compare it to the data. So like I would want his data as a part of it, because I do think that gambling numbers and those things,

although they're frowned upon because they're, you know, it's not legal in a lot of states and stuff. And people view gambling as like a bad sect of humanity. But like I think that they're very telling and very helpful and something that I would like to know. I like to know in hypothetical matchups, like what's hypothetical spreads would be. Now, I'm not saying I would make the entire decision based on that, but you'd want to know. Yeah.

How about Dan Rubenstein? One for comic relief, but also he went to Oregon. So, uh, big 10 school, but on the west coast and kind of a different fresh perspective Where we go? Jess Schwartz in Oregon, you know former organ player Who obviously another offensive lineman and I want as many offensive linemen on it as possible Yeah, we need to get the 13. So I I feel like uh, One of those two would be great. Dan Rubenstein would probably cook for us, which would be a good plus Uh, oh we make pizza for everybody. Oh, let's go. Like the thing that I love about being the idea

of being on the Playoff Committee more than anything is that it is your job to just sit there and watch games. And as you're watching them, your only thing that you're supposed to be doing is soaking it in, which is the thing I miss the most about watching college football. Like when we're watching it, it's like, Oh, tweeting here, we're talking over here. We're writing over here. But you just sit there and watch and absorb. And that would be a hell of a way to do it, especially because the hotel points probably rack up pretty good there too at the, at the great finals.

Do they ever, do they ever. Now, do you get to stay in the hotel since you live there or are you going to, well, you're the chair. You could move it somewhere else. Where are you moving the committee meetings? Is that a real question? You don't know the answer? I're the chair. You could move it somewhere else. Where are you moving the committee meetings? Is that a real question? You don't know the answer people. I know the answer. I want the people to hear the answer on core las vegas Or one of the

Mgm to make it, you know Bet mgms have good sportsbooks. Uh on course sports books actually kind of trash. It's very small Um a vegas hotel that has nice accommodations and also a great sportsbook I'm actually going in a few weeks to, for my buddy's birthday. And we're staying at the Durango, the new one. I heard the sports book's awesome. I can't wait to get out there. Um, but that's where it would be.

Plus you've, you've got pool, you've got dinner. I mean, like Vegas is the city where the points junkie can thrive the most. Is it not? It certainly is. And I don't think you're going to get a lot of pushback from your committee members on it. I think we got close to 13. So I will at least gave you a big, oh,

I'm going to throw a Paul Feinbaum on there too. You got to have one just pure SEC partisan. Yeah, one SEC partisan to counteract two Big Ten network people too. I think one SEC network person, one Big Ten network person. Yeah. But like, I think that like- But I feel like Revson,

Revson's not gonna be a giant Big Ten homer. Like he'll be very measured in his analysis. Paul will not. Did you ever tell you the story of the time I went on Big Ten network with Dave Revson and somebody walked into my house because they had the code and I was live on the home. And like my wife gave me interior designer the code

to our home to walk in and I was in the middle of this and they person, you remember my old house where you'd walk by the office and it was on the door and I was just like, I'm on Big Ten Network right now and there's a human being I've never seen before looking at me in the foyer of my house. And I like froze up. I think that happened to us on the old show,

but you know, who cared because it was our show. I've never gone back on the Big Ten Network since and I think that he thinks I stink at talking about football on TV And like the fact of the matter is is that like he's lucky I didn't scream and call 911 like there was a human being Actually held together and finished the interview. I think I deserve a lot of credit for that Rebson's a pros pro by the way if you if you've not read Dave Rebson's book, the opening kickoff, it's about the early days of college football, you will learn so much about the sport. So if you're looking for something to read this summer, get Dave Rebson's book.

But I think he would be a great one. Actually, another guy who writes really good books and also we used to work with, Bruce Feldman, I think would be another perfect person for this committee. Yeah, but I think that we came up with a pretty good committee and I think we would do an awesome job and then also too we're all so close and don't have any like I feel like with no personal interest you can actually like insult people and stuff and like actually tell them how you feel

about things. I think it would probably be very contentious but if you had a bunch of really smart people who think about college football differently, all arguing, I think it would be very beneficial for it. And I think we would be really good at it. I really do. And hopefully one day that'll happen because, you know, I don't know, there's politicians who have been on there before. Like I think I'm probably more qualified than a politician, right? I don't know. One would hope one would hope. All right. Speaking of politicians, released a guy who Was going to get into politics early in life and then decided to to make a career pivot and become a college football coach Brian Kelly said something interesting here in Destin

He said SEC teams want to play big 10 teams He his idea would be the sec goes to a nine-game conference schedule and his idea would be the SEC goes to a nine game conference schedule and then each SEC team also plays a big 10 team, which I have put this out in columns before. One of the things I think the SEC is trying to push with this nine conference game thing is it will help them get a scheduling agreement with the big 10 for non-conference games. Because I don't think the big 10 teams want to do it if the SEC teams are only playing eight conference games. Now, we've talked at length this week about the automatic bid situation

is the only way the SEC is going to go to nine conference games. So the CFP, which we just talked about how great Lane Kiffin's idea was, and I love Lane Kiffin's's idea and I wish it could just be 16 best But there's a reason the commit the commissioners Aren't going for that because that they are just over complicating this part of the way They're over complicating it is they want these automatic bids They want to know it's sort of like just knowing what your budget is like, you know, you're gonna get this many teams in Yeah, it's sort of like just knowing what your budget is like, you know, you're gonna get this many teams in

But the SEC ADS have basically come around and said Even the guys who wanted a nine game conference schedule before now said they'll only do a nine game conference schedule if They get the automatic bid. So but if they do That would open up avenues Probably for a big 10 SEC scheduling Alliance Brian Kelly was talking about that as he said, they want to play big 10 teams. I would assume we want to see those games in the regular season, right? I mean, I'm happy to

hear this. This is so much better to hear than the other thing, which is we don't want to blame good and like the thing too is the more non-conference game, and this is the argument that I haven't even made, and I should have been making for the past week about the, we don't wanna play non-conference games against good teams is if the conferences are going to be so big and you're not gonna get

a real round robin and you're gonna have teams on the West Coast playing East Coast conferences and you know the spiel, it would be nice to get as much possible context as possible about which teams are good. And how do you get that context by big time non-conference games? Because like, listen, wouldn't it have been awesome

if Indiana played LSU last year? We would have had a lot of questions answered. You know, and would have helped a lot, yes. The hardest thing about college football, I think it's the beauty, but it's also difficult is you are left playing hypothetical games often because of no choice. Like in the NFL, there's no hypotheticals.

You just know who who did what and they play the games. And in college, it's like, well, if they play this or what would the spread be? Or, you know, they didn't play anybody good. And we played a harder schedule. If we played that schedule, we would have done better. Like all that all that crap that we're just constantly flinging at each other all the time would be easier to decipher and work through if there was a bigger sample size of big good teams playing big good teams. And like the thing about it too is that like, I feel like

there should be a rule where every conference, every team in a power conference has to play at least one conference, power conference opponent than on conference just to like get more down. They all made those rules during the four team four team era. They, they all had those rules. They're kind of unwritten now. And if you look, everybody basically does. I think I'm not, I think Ole Miss isn't doing it this year because wake forest bought itself out of the return game. But, uh, most, most of these teams are, but cause Indiana, this is what's interesting. That was the problem. Did India right? They got out of the game with Louisville. They would have had no power

conference non-conference games. They would have played Louisville or Clemson or somebody. It doesn't I'm not saying it has to be LSU versus USC or LSU versus Ohio State every year, but it would be cool to see Indiana you know Auburn. Like I don't know like it doesn't have to be cool to see Indiana, you know, Auburn. Like, I don't know, like, it doesn't have to be marquee. Well, that's, that's the thing. We've Monday night games. Just kind of got some of these games coming up. We've got Texas and Ohio State this year. We've got Michigan and Auburn Baylor this year. Auburn Baylor's perfect. Auburn Baylor is going to be great. Yeah, those, those are going to be great games. And so I do think an SEC big tune in particular, because you get a lot more comparison of those two conferences during the year, it'd be nice to see that if they

just went now, obviously they're not equal membership. So you couldn't do all the sec teams against all the big 10 teams, but you could do 16 against 16 every year. And I would love it if they could match them up in a way where you say, okay, this half of the league is home games this year. This half of the league gets away games this year. And then we decide the previous January who matches up against two. So you, you would have the best matching up against the best and then on down the line. So one, you get more competitive games probably doing it that way, but two, you also maybe get a better comparison of conference strength relative to one

another. Yeah, absolutely. More, more, more, more, more, more, more. Yeah. You want to say I'm talking about more? But this is, this is what the SEC and the big 10 people are going to say, and it's going to drive the ACC school fans and the big 12 school fans crazy and I'm sorry They're gonna say This is you got to give us the auto bids or we're never doing this Because if you don't give us the auto bids, there's no incentive to schedule these games. We're just taking on more losses and I understand what they're saying. I don't

but No, I do it's their thing that they have all the leverage here I feel like it's a major they've weaponized this yeah, it is made up But here's the thing they're dangling something shiny in front of you and saying do you want this? Do you want this? It's like it's like when when When our kids were babies You dangle your keys in front of you and saying, do you want this? Do you want this? It's like, it's like when, when, when our kids were babies, you dangle your keys in front of them to get their attention. Like you're dangling something shiny. Do you want this?

Do you want this? Do you want this? Okay. You have to give me this. If you don't give me this, you don't get the shiny thing. And that's, that's what it is. It's it's the carrot instead of the stick. And I know that, but the, the's the carrot instead of the stick, and they know that.

But unfortunately, I think the stick is the ACC and the Big 12 then sign away and essentially codify their own inferiority, which sucks. I would want to do that if I was them. I would do everything in my power to avoid that. A piece of paper where really attractive men like Ryan Gosling and people like that like made you sign a piece of paper That said you're a five Is that what's happening? It's exactly what it is

What do they give me to say I'm a five because at this point in my life I'm I actually sign so you can come out to the night club Here you can be you can be our friend for once a year and you can come and be a part of the boys night And they're gonna give me so they're like they're gonna pay for my drink like it's bottle service and they're gonna pay You get to come to the party, but you're just not one of us and you have to sign that you're not one of us All right, you know when you put it that way I might actually sign it oh You so you do want to go to the party? Because for me... I kind of accept that I'm not one of them, right?

Yeah, but I guess, unlike the ACC and the Big 12, you probably don't have a burning desire or need to feel a part of their group. That's true. That's the difference. As an old married man, that's not really of interest to me, so yes. Yeah.

It just sucks, because you have to admit you're inferior and in writing well, exactly and I just I Don't think I could I I understand why they're fighting so hard and I don't blame them for it But the thing is and this is the other part of this like Brian Kelly said I Kind of want them to play Big 10 teams too. I want that to happen. I want those games on my TV. And I get it.

You're right. They could just do it. But they're not going to. They want something in return. It's annoying. But I want those games on my TV. I really want them. I mean, all you want is good games. And I feel like for you, like the little carrot that you dangle in front of Andy Staples as it pertains to what system we should be in

is how many times we can have good games on TV. Like your four, that's it. That suffices how many good games we can have. And I like that point of view. We just differ because I want good games that mean something. And that's what we have. You want stakes. Now, I do think there's a limit for me. I have a personal limit. We've talked about this before.

My personal limit on the Playoff is 16 teams. I think you do reduce stakes too much if you go bigger than that. 16 is your line? That's where my line is, Yeah, that's my personal line here No No, they'll go over it They don't care what I think we're not done here. This is done here. Yeah. Yeah

This is the other the other the other divisions and subdivisions do 24 But I don't like it. I don't like the playoff brackets you have to explain that are hard to explain. Producer River, by the way, did a little project for me. He made a graphic for the 16 team playoff with the double buy that is something the Big 10 and the SEC are pushing for. And made an error doing it. But we got to tell him. We fixed it. I know, but I'm saying that's how complicated it was. he couldn't even get through the crack It was making an error because it's complicated. Yeah, there it is. Look at that monstrosity on the screen It took me an hour to figure out how that worked the other night. I mean it looks pretty but at what cost it does

Not look pretty You don't think all the lane kiffin one Mr. Give me all the games in the world doesn't love that other the games look good But the prettier one all the late Kiffin one. Mr. Give me all the games in the world doesn't love that. Oh, the games look good. But the prettier one was the lane Kiffin one was just 16. And that's it. That's pretty. Look at the symmetry there. Yeah, like that. Yeah, that makes sense. But like in terms of the games, like you get more good games at the end. But again, it's always for me. Do you? I don't know.

Because I don't think you do. I actually because if you go back to the Lane Kiffin one, Ole Miss at Texas is a 14-3 game. I mean, you're going to get bogged down on. What's the spread on that game, Ari? But don't get bogged down on what it would look like in one individual year. You're just getting the amount of games is what's well. But I think last year is fairly representative.

I mean, I realize it's small. So sample size of one. But I think you'd have that. I think one of the pluses of what Lane was talking about is you'd have some situations where 15-2 and 14-3, their potential big seed upsets. Because South Carolina at Georgia last year and your Ole Miss at Texas, what's the spread on those games? Less than five? The funniest thing about this whole thing,

and I can open up an entire new podcast segment on this, and I don't know if we want to do that but is that my save for tomorrow to my personal belief is that if they're ranking it the way that Lane Kiffin thinks they should be ranking it the rankings from last year would look different. Our ranking would have been correct. Yes but we'd probably still have all the same teams. We'd have all the same teams they would just be in different order and then change. Yeah, I'm not as interested in the order as I am in who's in. Yeah.

And I think that's that's for sure how the commissioners feel. Or you feel worried about the order to especially if buys are off the table too. Like, yes, you are. Like I found myself concerned with the order because we knew the five or six seed was now the golden ticket to Candyland last year. That's what happened. Correct. So like that from that standpoint, but like, yeah, one verse 16, like you can make the case even in the fake hypothetical bracket that Oregon got screwed.

Playing Clemson at 16. I don't know. I'd say one verse 16 is, yeah, because that would be Clemson. No, I think Oregon would have handled Clemson pretty, pretty. I know I'm saying like they're probably, you know, with what the information that we have now, there probably would be, you know, easier on paper matchups in that in that spot than the 116. Yeah.

But like, yeah, you know, yeah. I mean, I'm all for doing what makes most sense. I think the cat's out of the bag. The thing that I've been holding on to is gone and now I just want it to make sense. I am not going to argue with you on that. I'm not. Speaking of people who make sense, Ralph Russo from the Athletic, one of our great friends, one of our favorite listeners and viewers also, was here with me this week, talked to him for a while about Greg Sankey embracing the role of villain but

also being the heat shield I think for Big Ten Commissioner Tony Petiti. Here's Ralph. Joined by the great Ralph Russo of the athletic. It was a pleasure to see you Andy. My favorite listener who listens five days after every show and texts me about things that I forgot that I said. I like to consume the show on my own schedule. We appreciate that. I'm realizing that this week because one of the things about covering the SEC spring meetings is

because this has been a while since the football coaches talked, they come in on Tuesday morning and they talk and so everything gets blasted out. Everything Kirby Smart says, everything Lane Kiffin says. And you're like, oh, I gotta get this out, I gotta do this, I gotta do this, and you realize that people don't have enough time

to consume all of that. Yeah, there is, what we perceive to be news is not necessarily quite as big a news because we are quite literally isolated here in this hotel. In the basement of the hotel. Yeah, it's a big deal that the SEC meetings are growing on and we feel like, wow, like, you know, our sport, this is like a pivotal time.

So we have to, all these newsmakers are talking. So this is important stuff, but it is also late May. And people are- The world's thinking about the NBA playoffs. There's a lot of other things going around. So I know that your followers and my readers, you know are very much in tune to college football and are very much interested in What's going on here? But maybe the level of interest is not quite the same as what we think it is. Yes Yes, it's interesting urgency, right?

One of the things I found so interesting about this week like we got here Monday Greg Sankey comes in, essentially breathing fire. I think I tweeted it was the most pissed off I'd ever seen him in a public setting. So I think that maybe a little overstayed by you, but he was clearly fired up to get some things off his chest, which we helped him do.

We did. And I think this is interesting because it's a point, the SEC obviously dominates this week because there's not much going on in the news. They're having this thing here so you're talking to a bunch of SEC people and one of the things I've tried to figure out is how do you counterbalance that because the big 10 has already had its meetings the big 12 is going to have them later this week but like what we're hearing from Greg Sanky is probably what Tony Petitti would say if given truth serum and a willingness to talk as much as Greg Sankie, right?

So let's dig into that because I'm not entirely sure they are of one mind. My sense of it is, I think for the most part you're right and I think for the most part, Greg, because he is a lot more front-facing, takes a lot more shrapnel than Tony who has really decided that he's going to be a very under-the-radar commissioner. Which for the league that makes the most money and is probably the most powerful? We talk about the SEC and Sankey being the most powerful, but I think it's actually the Big Ten commissioner. It could be. Or it could be both.

Yeah. It could be if he chooses to be. I don't think Tony Petiti chooses to be. He is somewhat of a newcomer to this space, right? When I say college sports, where Greg Sankey is a lifer and I think understands a lot of the dynamics and I think respects the dynamics in some ways that Tony Petitti does not. That's not or doesn't have to because he's new. Yeah, because he's new. I do wonder that there is a when Greg Sankey, I know he got very fired up when he was asked about the good of the game. Oh, yeah.

he fired up when he was asked about the good of the game and being the guardian of the good of the game. Um, I do think that he takes that in a way that is, I don't want to say more seriously, but differently seriously than. Right. Only Petitio. Cause he had been the Southland conference commissioner and he's, he's seen this at different levels. I think he's also, and I know we both got done, or just guys have done writing columns. He's seen the ways the playoff and unpopular postseason system can bring

scorn and scrutiny upon college football. Like it can go wrong. So I think he has a little more sense of this idea that like, boy, if nobody thinks this is a good idea, this automatic, we're the only two who think this is a good idea, maybe we need to be a little more cautious about implementing this idea. Right, and it's interesting, because the automatic bids, that conversation,

actually started when they were going from four to 12, and it was Kevin Warren, when he was the Big Ten commissioner who first brought it up. Right, so and it was just signifying it to saying, the ACC champ gets in, the Big Ten champ gets in, the Big 12 champ gets in, the SEC champ gets in, that that was what Kevin Warren suggested, and actually Greg Sankey pushed back against it initially

because he said, no, no, no, five highest ranked, we'll get sued otherwise. I find it interesting that Greg Sankey is now on board with the automatic bids because I still think it's gonna get them sued if they're not careful. So, which is again why I think that there's at least a modicum of hope.

And I actually, I believe this exists within the other decision measures, the other conference commissioners that at some point, because Greg understands that he might be the one to talk Petite away from the ledge. Now I think that hope is dimming. Yeah. But I know that that has been there for a while this idea that well, you know, the only person listen It's not a democracy anymore. Yes. You see in the Big Ten hold sway Yeah, so if the Big Ten wants something and the SEC wants something that's what's going to happen So I think again there has been this idea that well at some point

Greg will has been through these wars and he will maybe be the I don't but I don't know that he is because I think he I think he's on board now with the well, at least judging by what he's been saying this week, I certainly think I work from what I judged this week, it certainly sounds like his athletic directors are on board. So once you're you're like directors, a president and the secret of it is pulling your room or coming to you and saying like, hey, we like that idea too. Now all of a sudden, you know, do you, you know,

he serves to a certain degree. Do you hold dominion over your, Yeah. Your membership and say like, no, we're not gonna do that. Well, the other thing is, Greg Sankey has always wanted them to go to nine conference games. That's another very good point.

And that's how you get there. That's how you get to nine conference games is you do the automatic bits. Because that's what the 80s are saying because I thought it was interesting Florida 80 Scott Strickland we talked to him on Tuesday and he said somebody asked I believe it's Heather Denich from ESPN asked can you get to nine games without the automatic bids and Scott's answer was I can't and the interesting part about that is if you know the history of this eight versus nine debate within the SEC, Scott Strickland was an early proponent of nine, because Florida's home schedules were

boring as hell. Because they play always on. Yeah. So he wanted more variety in the home schedule. And that's why he wanted nine games. The fact that he who was one of the ultimate proselytizers for nine games is now there I think tells you that's where the membership is. Yeah it was Scott's uh if you want to do a little inside baseball here oh yeah yeah so that's what we're here for I don't know if you're I don't know well it's a it's a it's a journalism thing I don't know how much your listeners and viewers care that much about it. But you know, so you're at these things and uh, there's a, you know, you're in a hotel lobby and every once in a while as a reporter,

you get somebody by yourself. Yeah. And you think, Oh, you had him first in that's from, I was late to it. So I Scott and I found ourselves by ourselves and he was like, Hey, what do you need? I'm like, let's do it. Filled up my notebook. You have to go into a corner when it happens. Well, we were not out completely exposed, so I filled up the notebook, got all the stuff,

and then slowly a couple of other people came around me. I was done. And I walked away and he started saying the same things over again. I was like, damn it. There goes my cool exclusive book. let me explain what this scrum looked like by the end. So there, there's multiple, you know, beat writers for recovered different schools. I'm there. Pete Thamel from ESPN is there. Heather

Dennett from ESPN is there. So it's Ross Dellinger from Yahoo is there. So I was first, but it was all gone. All the good stuff was gone. Scott was interesting, and I thought what he said about the selection committee was fascinating. Because his thing is, and he was saying this as someone who was serving on the baseball selection committee over the weekend. He's been on the football committee, too. He has, and I don't know if he's been on the basketball

committee or not. I don't think so. But his thing is with baseball and basketball you play 30 something regular season games there's a data set there's a lot of inter-conference crossover where you can really kind of slice the data up and his thing is with football with only 12 games you just can't do that the same way. And so a committee is never going to be a satisfying solution in football. Not to mention in those other sports,

you have very big fields. Correct, you have a 64 team field or 68 team field. For the most part, you are getting the teams in that need to be in. And by the time you get to at large team number 30 something. Oh, well, yeah. The 35th at large basketball team really doesn't have much to say. So here's the one thing and I don't love the automatic bids.

And I do find myself wondering what is the way to create something that looks like automatic bids, but isn't exactly automatic bids. And frankly, I think that's what's going on. They're looking at formulas and ways to justify them. Yeah, and they wanna come up with something like the net ranking or the RPI for football. It's not that easy. Right, because there's not enough.

There's not enough data. There's not enough data, right, because there's not enough games and there's not enough non-conference games. But the one thing I have a hard time, cause I've always sort of said this too. And Scott mentioned this is we want to remove some of the subjectivity and replace it with objectivity. And I've always thought that that seems like a good idea.

And that's the other thing Scott kept saying is we're conditioned by the pro sports to crave objectively determined postseason fields. Very simple, very simple thing in all of sports, right? You win something, you get something. You win a division, you get a playoff spot. And the winners are simply determined by record. Of course, in college football, it is very hard to do that.

Because you don't have even divisions, you don't have rules to have parity. Or even conferences. Yes, and I understand that this power play by the SEC As you don't have even divisions, you don't have rules to have parity. Or even conferences. Yes. And I understand that this power play by the SEC and the big 10 and what they have done over the last five to 10 years with realignment has not been great for the sport of college football. Right, the sport at large.

Yeah. You really want to be someone who thinks of the old, where we were five years ago, when they first introduced this 12 team playoff format. And the idea was it was going to lift all the Power Five conferences. There were not a, there was not a Power Five. Which if those existed in the same way, it probably would have last year.

And that's the reason why the 12 team playoff is already out of date. Yeah. Not because the playoff is bad, because conference realignment is bad. And it really has shifted power toward those conferences. It's hard to argue against that. But I again, like I say, removing some of the subjectivity, understanding that like, it's hard, in other words, it's hard to do,

it's hard to push back against the SEC when it does say, Hey, listen, we're the toughest conference. And like, like, we need have this and recognize that like our schedules are a little tougher every schedule strength of schedule metric that you use that will bother me and that's saying that they're all end all they're all say the same already says this all the time too. And I think Ari's right about this. All SEC schedules aren't equal. All Big Ten schedules are good. But the problem is that the the giant leagues make this even tougher because you can say

this league has the toughest schedule. But the difference between Oklahoma's SEC schedule and Texas's SEC schedule are big. We're incredibly different. I mean, the Big Ten had lived through it last year with Indiana, which by no fault of its own, just got a great draw. Yeah, right. Which didn't look got a great draw. Yeah, right.

Which didn't look like a great draw this time last year. It didn't. Yeah. So, you know, here we are again. I think that there's still this we're probably trending. We're almost, we're definitely trending towards 16. Um, did we mention lane Kiffin and his great idea? Well, Ari and I just talked about that quite a bit. But I want to get your take on that. Because my thing is, it's simple, but you know what?

I look at the bracket, and I'll be honest with you, Ralph, when I did a bracket for it, I didn't use the stupid double buys with 16 team. I used a classic 16 team bracket, and oh my God, would that have been amazing. So I don't have a problem with expanding to 16. Again, it's the how and the format of AQs. I think the people who are a little bent out of shape

because well, didn't you know it was gonna get bigger? Yeah, of course I knew. I knew it was gonna get bigger. I don't want it to go past 16. That's my personal limit. I realize everybody else may have a different personal limit number in their mind. But yeah, right. Lane basically saying and Lane Kiffin voice of reasoning. It's football. Who knew? Exactly,

Andy. Um, but yeah, Lane basically saying, listen, just pick the top 16 teams and that's it. And if you did that, lo and behold, there's six SEC. There's five conference champions and there's five conference champions. And there's five conference champions. The one thing that gets a little tricky is, I think in this new world order, where the G5 is essentially being run like farm teams, it's gonna be getting the G5 champion into the top 16

is gonna be a little touching. Also in the ACC and the Big 12, you might have a situation where the conference 16 is gonna be a little touching. Also in the ACC and the Big 12, you might have a situation where the conference champion is it, because remember Clemson was number 16. Sure. Could have easily been, you know, let's say Clemson had lost another regular season. No, I don't, maybe they weren't,

no, they wouldn't have been in the ACC championship. So the mechanics of this are gonna make it really hard for there not to be five conference champions. Yeah, again, the group of five one is the one I would worry about a little bit because again, it's just getting to the point where as great as Boise is one of the few programs that seems to be immune to everybody

coaching their best players. So they seem to have the ability to build up and be good enough so that they could be ranked in the top 60. We can build on what lane kiffin said The ACC and big 12 have proposed the 511 model, which is five highest ranked conference champs, right? Eleven at largest that's essentially the same thing as that lane kiffin said except you just make sure you grab one of those Chompers champs. Yeah, you could you could conceivably put one qualifier in to say,

hey, if you're a conference champ and you finish 17th or 18th, we will move you into the top 20. If you wanted to. You know, there was a lot of talk about displacement by Greg Sankey, which essentially is the concept. But that only displaces one. It only does this place one.

So I think that you could you could manage to make that work anyway. Like I do think Lane's idea was pretty good. But I also think, you know, I think we both wrote to a certain degree, a similar column, though I guess they'll they'll both post, you know, by the time you're done with the, oh yeah, we'll see.

And we'll see who did it best. But when the state of college football is Lane Kiffin being the voice of reason, the person giving the best ideas, I also question the state of college. That's exactly, yeah, I think our points were very similar in our columns because it is, it's certainly no offense to Lane Kiffin because I like it when people can boil things down in very simple terms and he said it in one Yeah. The best plan is 16 best. And, but the thing is later in the day, or actually, no, it was before this. It was before we talked to Lane.

Greg Sankey had been in there right at the end. And he volunteered this information that the coaches, Lane Kiffin included, had had a conversation with Greg Sankey in the, in the meeting about the five 11 model, what we just mentioned five conference champions, 11 at large. And so we asked Greg Sankey what his thoughts on that were and his, he jokes. It's cold. That's why I wear pullovers in here. And he basically is like patting the coaches on the head.

Like, of course these meatheads would want this, but you know, the, the grownups have more complicated things to deal with here. Yeah. It, this does seem to be a little, another situation where the coaches are not, are not going to be the ones making this decision. The coaches are right in this. But in this case, the coaches are rather a lot of times the coaches don't see the forest through the trees and they, they do, they sort of, but this time,

this time they see the big picture better than I think the commissioners who are in all these stupid meetings yeah and again you know there's a whole bunch of things related to aqs that have to do with reimagining yeah conference championship weekend right and you don't have to do that by the way and you don't and you don't have to do that and you'll get if you just expand the field make make it 16, get rid of all the qualifiers, the SEC will be just fine. Oh, the SEC would be in great shape. I think the ACC could be in OK shape. Could really benefit from that as some of its teams get better. I think the Big 10, like they would have had four in last year,

but you could easily see six Big 10 teams getting in. So I know we don't want to go too long with this segment. I'll just open up a little bit of one rabbit hole. But you can easily see six big 10 teams. So I know we don't want to go too long with this segment. I'll just open up a little bit of one rabbit hole. It's not just about how many teams you get into the playoff. It's about how many teams you have in the playoff race and during November. Exactly.

Because that's important to these ADs, too, because they want to make sure my stadium is filled in November, because I have a chance to make the playoffs. And that's where the SEC has a different view of things than I think the Big Ten, because the SEC should believe, because it did last year, had about eight teams in the playoff race

entering November, where the Big Ten did not. It's where the other sports in the SEC influence how those ADs feel about it, because they are used to getting everybody in in the other sports. They have 13 baseball teams. 13 of 16 baseball teams made the NCAA tournament. 14 of 16 men's basketball teams made the NCAA tournament. The softball got down to eight and five SEC teams are still in there. An entire side of the bracket will be in the college, women's college world series.

So they're used to that, and I think that's where they're coming from on this, as opposed to the Big Ten, which is not used to that in the other sports. But that is an important part of this. It's not just who makes it, it's who's involved in it, because those, that gives hope, and that enhances their regular seasons.

I'm not sure if it enhances the entire regular season. I think it does in the Big 10, because as the money flows in more, then I do think it'll help the Big 10. My question is like the Big 12, would it help the Big 12? I don't know. Because Big 12 would have gotten one team in,

it would have had two teams just outside. BYU and Iowa State were just outside. So for example, if SMU beats Clemson in the ACC Championship game, then either BYU or Iowa State gets in. That's a fair point, right? Because Miami was the other one who would have gotten in from the ACC.

They would have. And SMU would have been in, so you wouldn't have had a bit-thief situation. So I do think They would probably get to in most years the big 12 would I think the ACC would feel very comfortable about it getting to yeah Yeah, it's interesting because like that's what when you when you talk to the Sankey and some of these guys about the aqs They say well that would have happened Anyway, we would have gotten this many in and they would have gotten this many in. But I don't think if you're the ACC of the big 12, I don't think you should sign

away and codify your own inferior. Oh God. I think, I think you should avoid that at all costs. That's essentially what the, I mean, that's, that's the, the, the gist of the fight now for the ACC in Big 12. It's not about how many they will get or could have gotten. It's about quite literally what you said. It's protecting not just your access, but your brand

in a way that you can't afford to let happen. Because you never get it back. We are not half as good as those conferences. And now it's in writing. Yeah, and the thing is this stuff's cyclical. So what happened and this is theoretical and let's be honest probably not likely but what happens if the ACC suddenly takes a turn and seven of its programs are among the

best and you've and now you've agreed to these these AQs and again you're not getting enough in. Again the frustrating thing Andy Andy, is we just showed, going back to what you said, you don't need the AQs to get what you want unless what you really want is to play in games that you can sell the Fox. Which is what Tony Petitti wants, the former TV executive. And I think that's what makes fans and us

a little frustrated about it. You don't really, we don't need to do this. You're not doing this for, I'm not saying us, but when we're us sitting in front of our TVs, that's like, you're not doing this for the person sitting in front of their TV watching these games. You're doing it, And I'll admit, the play-in games are an interesting concept and could be a lot of fun.

Yeah, but I think they're just detrimental. But they're really hard to explain to people. And what Lane Kiffin suggested is really easy to explain to people and you get good games anyway. And not every conference can do the playing games the same. Because again, I think if there was a structure of like, hey, we all sort of. Right, the ACC and the Big 12 would have to have their champion at risk in that game.

And again, it makes it complicated. And that's the other thing, the last thing I would say on this too, where I think if you're a coach, a little bit hesitant to embrace AQs that involve playing games. Because I've asked this to a couple of ADs. I'm like, so you're gonna tell me, you're gonna tell your football coach who finished 10 and two, playing an eight or nine game,

maybe even SEC schedule. Sorry, you gotta play one more tough game in the SEC. Who would have been comfortably in, and now you're gonna tell them, no, you need to play one more game and put that comfortably in at risk. Yeah. I mean, think about it in the big 10 last year, number three and four last year was Indiana, Ohio state was the fourth.

Right. Right. In the big three, the three, six game, cause it, cause in the big 10, one in two would be in, and then you play three, six three six and four five Indiana Iowa would have been a really interesting game to see who got in but let's let's play this out because we can say Ohio State Illinois Ohio State was a juggernaut they would have been fine but they weren't a juggernaut then they were coming out the Michigan and you think about yeah instead of having a month to get their act together, they had to play

a pretty good Illinois team. Play Illinois, you know, they're still in a fog because they just lost to Michigan. Will Howard turns his ankle and all of a sudden that team is out of the playoff. That just doesn't seem like, that's another part of this that always seems like an odd idea and why I could see coaches pushing back. It's it's and again, I don't think these guys understand how detrimental it is the sport to make it so hard to explain. Yeah.

That was always a big problem with the BCS, right? People just couldn't understand intuitively. And that was only two teams. How are you getting to these two teams? And like what Lane Kiffin suggested, now granted, your idea of best and my idea of best are gonna be different. Without question.

It will vary across every single human being, it'll vary across every member of the committee. So you're gonna have to decide you're okay with that. By the way, Lane pushed for media members on that committee. I know. Ari and I discussed that at length. We've talked about it. I already already replied.

You may have made the committee, oh Ari's dream is to be a member of the committee. He's like, I would leave on three tomorrow. And I'm like, you know what doesn't pay, right? So I want to keep you paying. Jim would not leave on three tomorrow. He would just invest in personally. Parts in baseball.

I want no part part in that committee. None. Like I'm happy to just yell at you guys for the decisions you make. So question Ralph, I'm ready for a barrage of texts. Yeah. When, when, when you hear this episode, you hear who else we've put on the committee with you. The funny thing is I will listen to this episode

and probably critique my own stuff. Yes, next week. Will you text it to your own number? Will you put your... Maybe I will, maybe I will. I cannot wait. Ralph, it's been a pleasure. Love hanging out in the basement in Destin.

The beach is somewhere over there. I haven't seen it. I can't remember how many years I have been here, but I have still yet to touch sand One of these days one of these soon soon. Thanks, Ralph That is the great Ralph Russo from the athletic and Ari of course Ralph says he's going to Text complaints about his appearance on the show only to himself. So we're gonna be out of that text chain Well, I kind of like that text chain. I wish he would. I

wish he would not. I like it. That's true. You well, I love the route. I especially love when I have something going on in my life and I see the Ralph text come in and he's he's addressing different things we've said on the show and then you and him get going. And the next thing I knew I see 76 on red text messages and it's all you two. Yeah, it's just me and him going back and forth about going. And the next thing I knew, I see 76 unread text messages, and it's all you two. Yeah, it's just me and him going back and forth about whether or not the Pope joke I

told on the show was funny. And that's what you missed, why you were probably tending to family matters. But I think that Ralph is one of the most gifted reporters in college football and I love the way that he thinks about stuff. And I think the reason why his appearances on our show and vice versa are always so good is because we genuinely just love talking about it together and have a lot of respect for Ralph and happy that he was here and on the show and you know doing so well. And the Pope joke was not a fireball offense. It was pretty funny. I was I was you know that you might not think it's hilarious or the funniest thing you've ever heard but like

to act like it's not funny is just blatantly wrong. Listen to each his own. It's a it's sort of like laying kiffin in the playoff. We all have our idea of who's best and who's who's not best. We all have idea of what's funny and what's not. But one thing that is always true is you guys in the audience always ask the best questions and you have some great ones on deck tomorrow. Dear Andy, dear Ari, the Mailbag Show. We lead with a question about Julian saying a detail agwa. Talk to you tomorrow.