Andy & Ari On3 - Lincoln Riley: USC’s window to win is now OPEN | No more excuses | Illinois vs Tennessee Reaction: Big Ten or SEC?

Starting point is 00:00:00 On today is Annie Narion 3 presented by BetMGM. It's a megaboard Wednesday, and the on three megabords have been popping. We've been concentrating a lot in the college football playoff, but remember, the other bowl has been going on too, and we had a couple doozies on Tuesday, the Alamo Bowl, USC losing to TCU in overtime, but Lincoln Riley is saying, the window's now open for the Trojans and the USC fans going, huh? on their message board. Meanwhile, Tennessee loses to Illinois in the Music City Bowl.

Starting point is 00:00:33 The Tennessee fans looking at this like a major crushing blow, but Ari and I are like, huh, aren't these two teams basically the same? Why are you so upset? It was a very close game. Walk off field goal. We'll talk about how much closer the Big Ten in the middle and the SEC in the middle are these days. and what that means for the future of the sport. Plus, will Lane Kiffin attend the Sugar Bowl?

Starting point is 00:01:01 We are going to talk a little about the college football playoff because, of course, it's juicy. Lane Kiffin may be going to the Sugar Bowl with the Louisiana Governor. We'll talk about it all on today's Annie and Ari on 3 presented by BetMGM. We are proud to be presented by BetMGM. We use all BetMGM lines and totals on this here show.

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Starting point is 00:02:44 Call 1-800 next step in Arizona. call 1-800-327-50-50 in Massachusetts, call 1-800 bets off in Iowa or 1-800-9-81-00-23 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only, subject to eligibility requirements, rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in seven days in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for bed MGM yet, use the bonus code CFB and get your $1,500 first bet offer today. Welcome to Andy and Ari on 3 presented by BetMGM. And Ari, we've spent so much time on the college football playoff. We've not talked as much about the other bowls,

Starting point is 00:03:29 but there were two really fun games on Tuesday. The Alamo Bowl and the Music City Bowl, TCU beats USC in overtime on a play that reminded me of when we were at the USC Utah Pactual Championship game and watching USC not tackle. Jeremy Payne, that touchdown to end that game was basically everything that drives USC fans crazy about the Lincoln Riley era at USC. We're going to get into that on a mega board Wednesday, Gary P's Trojan Huddle at werSC.com popping off on Wednesday morning.

Starting point is 00:04:04 We'll talk about that. We'll also talk about Tennessee and Illinois playing a great game, Illinois walking off Tennessee on a field goal in the Music City Bowl. Let's start with USC though, Ari. Let's go to Gary P's Trojan Huddle. And there were a plethora of threads I could have chosen from. Some of them were way more negative than this. But this, I thought, struck the right balance of negativity about what's going on right now

Starting point is 00:04:31 and still a little bit of hope for the future. And so it's from Woods Noomero 2. And it's titled, the 2006 class can't come soon enough. And he says, we're about to see some true alphas take these players job. Absolutely abysmal performances from our team, just pitiful tackling, and I really can't believe I defended Belk. I would be Doug Belk, the secondary coach. The secondary look awful.

Starting point is 00:04:54 I hope we hire a defensive coordinator that I can actually put some fear in these guys. Ari, I feel like the poor USC fans are experiencing Groundhog Day. Yeah. I just, you know, the, can we go right to the comment that he made? Like, I don't, like, I don't know. Yes, we can go right to the comment that Lake and Riley made because, It actually kind of echoes Woods No. 2, which is, hey, it'll be better next year when it's kind of been the same every year. And you're assuming it'll be better next year.

Starting point is 00:05:28 Now, the recruiting class is really good. It's number one recruiting class in the country, 14 top 150 recruits, which is better than the previous Lincoln Riley recruiting classes at Oklahoma and USC, because USC hired Chad Bowden to be the GM. to essentially make them a good recruiting outfit. And so now they are. We'll see when those players get here. But Lincoln Riley, in his press conference, it's interesting. So he talked at one point in his press conference about how when he got to USC was hard to hire a staff because people weren't sure USC was all in.

Starting point is 00:06:03 Like giving him $10 million a year for 10 years guaranteed wasn't them being all in. The level of excuse making is amazing to me. but the excuses are done now and lincoln riley has set the table for the excuses being done so ryan cartier who covers USC for the los angeles times took this video at the press conference last night this is lincoln riley talking about USC going forward this place is doing all the things that you need to do to put yourself in position to go bust that door down and do it so So I really believe a window here is opened up that's taken a lot of effort by a lot of people, a lot of commitment by a lot of people for fun but really challenging years to get it open.

Starting point is 00:06:54 And it's open now. And we all feel that all of us that are fortunate enough to be able to come back here next year because it's not our right coaching or playing. Working at USC is not anybody's right. It's a privilege. and those of us have the privilege that would come back. We know what our job is, is to make all the efforts of all those people

Starting point is 00:07:13 the last four years worth it. And that's what we're going to do. Thank you, Lincoln. So the last four years have been really mid, but the window's open now, Ari. Yes, I saw a USC fan go, yeah, the window's open. We can all jump out of it now. Andy, he is owed so much money that he is trapped.

Starting point is 00:07:37 So what is even the reason for making excuses? Like they're stuck with you. Like you don't have to make excuses. You don't have to say these things. And it just comes across to me. And like I know I've gotten in trouble saying and writing this word in the past. But it seems soft to me. It really, really does.

Starting point is 00:07:56 And like I know that there are certain places that have more and less challenges than others when building. But four years is an eternity. Ari, Ari. Ari. Arie. Allie. Indiana had a three-win team two years ago. Indiana went to the playoff last year.

Starting point is 00:08:18 They won the Big Ten, and they're the number one seat in the playoff this year. You can't say that at USC when Indiana's done what it's done. You can't. Kurt Signetti is the grim reaper of excuses, right? Like, every single time somebody says something like this, you just see Kurtzignetti's face, Google me. Like, it's just like, you know, and again, I think that's kind of a dangerous path to go down because it's like, you can't compare, uh, everybody's game and basketball in the 90s to Michael Jordan. Some people just have something special, you know, um, and like, I'm not, am I comparing Kurt Signetti to Michael Jordan? I mean, kind of. Like what he's doing might be worthy of that comparison, but like, Ari Sharon Moore was carrying on an affair and doing God knows what on Instagram and still had the same record as,

Starting point is 00:09:05 as USC in the same league. Yeah. No, I know. No, it's insane. And also was half the time into his tenure. This isn't after year one or two. This is year four. Even in the old days, year four would have been insane.

Starting point is 00:09:21 In 2015, if you weren't winning at a high level by year four, you were maybe fired. In this era, like, I just like, I don't know, like, let, like, I've piled on Lincoln Riley a lot over the last few years. And I think that it's in bad faith discussion to not at least acknowledge that USC has improved, right? They have improved from what they were two years ago. But it's not drastic. They're not better than they were. The first year, Lincoln Riley was there.

Starting point is 00:09:49 Yeah, the first year they were the best. Their defense was probably was better this past year than the first year, which kept them out of the play. Their defense coordinator just left for Penn State, a school in the same league. Yeah, and if Caleb Williams didn't get injured in the Utah game in the Pac-12 championship in year one, they might have made the best. playoff in year one. So you have to acknowledge these things. But at the same time, USC does not scare anybody, period. And when you compare what USC is to what USC thought it was doing when it

Starting point is 00:10:21 stroked that 10 year $100 million contract, it's not even in the same league. You can go back and look up the athletic. The article or the column that I wrote the day, after they hired him. I called people in Southern California, high school coaches, you know, trainers of top level players. And they're like, this is going to be a takeover of the West Coast. And then from the second he started, Oregon blew his doors off in recruiting his own state. Yeah, Dan Lining has crushed him every step of the way and they got hired the same time. And like I get it. Like maybe Oregon was a little bit further along at NIL and USC's NIL was kind of a mess the first few years. Like there are some reasons why.

Starting point is 00:11:05 it was happening. I'm not saying that, you know, USC's failure to get to where it wants to go is 100. But what, Ari, Ari, let's, let's informal poll the viewers, the listeners. If your coach left tomorrow and you could hire any coach, would you hire Dan Lanning or Lincoln Riley? Dan Lanning, period. A hundred percent of the people will answer Dan Lanning. That's what you're up against. You know what? You know how you know. it's over. And I was thinking a lot about this when I was in Utah, and we were talking about Marcus Freeman.

Starting point is 00:11:41 Lincoln Riley used to be a sexy NFL candidate. Right. Remember? Yep. How many times is Lincoln Riley's name coming up? I know he comes up in job searches because fans are aware of who he is. He comes up in job searches because his agency was shopping around because they're trying to get him out of USC because USC didn't want him anymore.

Starting point is 00:11:59 He's not a legitimate candidate to be a coach anywhere else. And like, if you're a legitimate. candidate, maybe it doesn't happen as much when you're at a destination like USC is supposed to be. But my God, like it is nowhere near where it should be. And now he's losing maybe his most important staff member, the person that helped revamp the defense and Dan Lynn who's going to Penn State. Like there is always hope when you have a really good recruiting class and there's always hope when the portal hasn't opened yet and you can go get some good players. Well, and that's, but that's why I'm not... And I realize I keep saying this.

Starting point is 00:12:36 I'm overwhelmingly negative. And I'm like, I'm not out on Lincoln Riley yet. Because I do think he's a smart person. I do think he knows, like he has evolved somewhat as a coach. But will Chad Bowden, the GM,

Starting point is 00:12:51 will he kill the portal? Because if he does, and they have a quarterback, like Jaden Maya was coming back, if Chad Bowden kills the portal the way he killed his first recruiting cycle at USC, then maybe it's different. Because one of my main criticisms of Lincoln Riley

Starting point is 00:13:09 at Oklahoma and at USC was he wasn't willing to go get the best players on the line of scrimmage. In recruiting. Yeah. And he doesn't have to be willing now. USC hired someone to get those for him. And also, you have to make note, too,

Starting point is 00:13:31 that the state of California, California just simply doesn't produce great linemen, period. Like, it's just like there's stats out there. But neither does the state of Oregon yet Dan Lannning gets great linemen. Yeah. And I don't know about the state of Indiana either. Like, you can keep coming back to that. Like, is the state of Indiana a rampant, like, boon for elite level playmaking ability at any position?

Starting point is 00:13:50 No, probably not. But can both the, can these two things be true at the same time? Hmm. Lincoln Riley hasn't been good enough and the excuses fall on deaf ears and it seems soft to say them. also would not be hopeless because, like, that's where I'm at. It's not hopeless because, yeah, no, when you have 14 top 150 recruits coming in, it's not hopeless. Now, here, here's the part that's tough.

Starting point is 00:14:14 And I go back to our message board thread. Like, if you're relying on true freshmen to save you, remember, here's, here's USC's big 10 schedule next year. We don't know the dates yet, but these are the teams. At home, Maryland, Ohio State, Oregon, Washington, away Indiana. Penn State Rutgers, Wisconsin, UCLA. If you are relying on true freshmen to get you to the playoff against that Big Ten schedule, you're going to be disappointed.

Starting point is 00:14:45 Some of the older guys need to step up, need to do better. Now, part of that can be, again, Chad Bowden, the GM, killing it in the portal. The portal opens Friday. If USC gets a massive portal hall, if USC goes as all in on the portal as they did on this recruiting class, then they can have a really good roster that can very much make the playoff against this schedule. But I wouldn't rely on the young guys being able to do it. Yeah, because if you have that many top 100 players, like best case scenario is three hit, right? Like you're like, let's say Luke Wafel comes in and he is a terror. He's just crushing opposing

Starting point is 00:15:24 QBs. That's great. But there's going to be probably a couple more that need a little bit of time to develop. Wayful's like been compared to the Bosa brothers right so like very similar yeah yeah like he's the type of player that might actually be able to do something like that but you know recruiting classes maybe now more than ever are relied on right out of the gate but the truth is is that people are still people and it takes time for most prospects even the five stars and the four stars to like get ready to impact games now there are special ones like Malachi Tony is special like sometimes you hit on guys like that and then they come out and they make a difference right away but you're not going to

Starting point is 00:15:59 have five of those. If you have three of them, you're lucky. So, you know, I think that like what you're saying with the portal is absolutely important. But, you know, I always look back at USC and you know my infatuation with the West Coast. I've been feeling very nostalgic this morning watching, you know, clips from Keith Jackson, which we're going to play at the end of the show. And, you know, the old Ohio State Miami matchup for my childhood and all this stuff and thinking the way, but like USC is also from that era. Like, that is still very much in my brain. And like from a transfer portal destination, going to a place like that would be very attractive. A place that won, you know, more than eight games is in a wonderful place.

Starting point is 00:16:42 And like a fan base that's dying to win, like I would go there, especially if the payments are right. So, you know, the hope is that their roster is much better. But like, you know, I don't know if you can say that, can you say you're out on a coach if you're not hopeless? Like, I've been out on Lincoln Riley for three years. Well, I keep saying I'm not out on him, but I keep getting more and more frustrated by these. Every time he makes excuses, it makes me matter and matter because you don't need to be making excuses. Don't say anything. It wasn't good enough.

Starting point is 00:17:12 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're, they're financially stuck with you. So you don't have to make excuses. Just fix it. And I don't know if this is like bad form to bring up. But I also like, you saw the quote running around about how they blame.

Starting point is 00:17:27 named Notre Dame solely for like it not working out like I even if that's been remotely true I still thought that you shouldn't say that because like I was fine I mean I just feel like if wanted to make it work they could have made it work I was fine with Lincoln Riley saying that because Notre Dame had been saying anytime anywhere and USC was like okay week zero and Notre Dame's like no yeah um I'm just kind of pissed off that game isn't happening anymore Andy I am too I am too and it is ultimately on USC

Starting point is 00:18:01 USC wanted out of it so they put it in but but Notre Dame said anytime anywhere and USC gave them a time and they said no so that in this particular case USC can can say what they want

Starting point is 00:18:17 it's like giving your girlfriend an ultimatum and then like that ultimatum is kind of like oh here's the one thing that you is non-negotiable for you do it and then blaming them for not doing it like that's how I took it yeah so either way yeah like it's just not a great time right now but like as you know andy a few home run swings here in the next month and it can be their time again really quickly so frustration i mean how many years does he have left there before hot seat becomes real though

Starting point is 00:18:47 that's a real question that i want well it's the same situation as texas an m with jimbo fisher as Flores Sate currently with Mike Norvell, like it's expensive to fire him now. It will be expensive to fire him next year. It will be expensive to fire him the year after that. It will be expensive to fire him the year after that. So you have to make your decision. Now, I think, based on what he said,

Starting point is 00:19:12 the quote we just played, that there are no more excuses. If he's saying the window's open, you better get through the window. there are no more excuses. How many more years of below average to average football does USC have before they bite the bullet? I know it's going to be expensive, but could he be fired a year from now if it doesn't go well? Next year. Yes, next year.

Starting point is 00:19:37 Yeah, because that's like, we know it's expensive. When is it not too expensive to do what you feel is inevitable? I think that's an important thing. Like in the offseason, when we are having discussions of who's on the hot seat going into this year, Is Lincoln Riley on those lists? Yeah. No, that's exactly right. And I just, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:20:00 I don't know how it manifests. I think another year like this, a nine and three, you're probably okay. It's probably okay. It is? It's not okay, but they probably go with it because they're like, oh, one game away from the playoff. Yeah, I mean, they were one game away from the playoff this year, and it doesn't feel like they're okay with it.

Starting point is 00:20:22 So, you know, I don't know, year five, nine, and three would be a pretty tough pill. But at the same time, they're kind of in the Oklahoma position last year where, you know, things felt dire. The coach was, you know, and Brent Venables was in at Oklahoma for as long as Lincoln Riley's been, but you look at the schedule and go, holy crap, we're screwed, even if we get better, we're not making it. And then you go out and you do something like Oklahoma did and all of a sudden like Brent Venables is him. You know, like, and also, you know how this goes. you look at a schedule and, you know, it looks really, really daunting in July and then it turns out it's actually not as difficult as you once anticipated, though it might be a little bit more different because they have to play like Oregon and Ohio State. Like those are going to be good no matter what.

Starting point is 00:21:01 So like, you know, we'll see, you know, how it manifests, but I'm having a hard time envisioning blue skies and clear waters moving forward. But, you know, maybe in a month if they go out and get four really big pieces in the portal and then they win a game next year that you don't think they can win right. now, then all of a sudden, things are different. So, you know, I've always been kind of a proponent of letting a coach settle in and be there for five years before making a final decision. I think a lot of coaches in college football have been fired prematurely, and it hasn't worked out in the favor of the program. So now this forced patience might, you know, give you an extra year or two of Lincoln Riley that wouldn't have otherwise exist had he not signed an insane contract, and maybe that'll play in their favor. Like, I don't know. Like, he was once a very

Starting point is 00:21:45 good coach. He certainly has shown that he can develop quarterbacks at a high level and is an innovative offensive mind. You don't get all these quarterbacks to the Heisman trophy ceremony and winning the Heisman trophy and getting to the playoff as much as he did

Starting point is 00:22:01 with Oklahoma and be a shitty coach. I don't think he sucks. But, you know, I do think at a certain point you just have to do it. Enough with the excuses. I don't want to hear any excuses from anybody after year four, let alone Lincoln Riley at a place that has all these advantages and when you said when he said that thing about hiring coaches that is the biggest

Starting point is 00:22:22 crock of crap i've ever heard in my entire life exactly and and what he's saying the way he's saying is well now i can hire a good dc no no no you said when you hired dan lynn this was now we have the right you know what it reminds me of and like i don't know this might irk people but i'm a this is a podcast and i'll i'll take the irk um have you ever heard Elon Musk talk about Tesla do you like listen to that stuff like i'm a big like stop guy no you know there's a headline floating around by 2025 will be on mars by this date we'll we'll have this by this will do that like he's always talking about the things that are going to happen in the future and very few times does he either does it either come true or it meets its you know it's uh final date and i think a part of that

Starting point is 00:23:07 is because a lot of tesla is like thinking about what the future is going to look like and you know always promising the big big pie in the sky stuff and getting people excited and then don't don't deliver on it and then by the time people realize you haven't delivered on it you're promising something else that's big for the future and it's like I'm done with this stuff just do it just do it okay no more excuses Lincoln Riley none if you want to live in no excuse life like I didn't have time to cook today I couldn't make breakfast there is a solution Huell the world's number one complete nutrition the Huell black edition is a complete meal and you can do it in the ready-to-drink bottle.

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Starting point is 00:24:24 That's H-U-E-L.com. Use the code Staples 20 and get 20% off your first order of $75 or more at Huel.com. All right. There was another really tight bowl game on Tuesday. That was the Music City Bowl, Illinois with a walk-off field goal to beat Tennessee. It was a really fun game back and forth. and the Illinois with a great drive at the end to just milk the clock and then kick the field goal as time expired. So, of course, I went to VolQuest first thing Wednesday morning to see how the Tennessee fans were taking it.

Starting point is 00:24:55 Spoiler alert, not well. This thread from Troken 1 titled Meaningless Bowl Game. If Tennessee had won, folks on here would have said it was meaningless and Illinois was shorthanded. Not to mention only the playoffs matter. Since Tennessee lost, Danny Whitey only cares about. raising cash, and Josh Puyple isn't a national championship coach, even though Tennessee has had only one national championship since Neeland. I guess bowl games are meaningless to some until they aren't. Move on and enjoy your day in life. Now, this is actually a pretty even-tempered

Starting point is 00:25:29 message, but what I thought was interesting is a response, a couple posts down by C&Eagle. This is so dumb. There's a pattern in these five years that you're absolutely ignoring. We lose every year to inferior teams, some years multiple times. Last night was just a meaningless game, but one then showed that pattern again in back-to-back games this time. All right, so this is, this is C and Eagle calling Illinois and Vanderbilt inferior to Tennessee and R.E., we've watched all three of those teams play pretty much every game this year. Vanderbilt was a lot better than Tennessee, and Illinois is not inferior to Tennessee. Illinois and Tennessee were basically the same team they had basically the same season they expected more than they got

Starting point is 00:26:18 they ended up eight and four and they played a bowl game that ended on a last second field goal they were about as evenly matched as it gets and i think you brought up the point in our group chat this morning and i want you to elaborate on that because it pissed you off enough to to speak up on it to us so tell the audience uh happy to do that but first annie i want to ask you a question you know the the body like people who have body dysmorphia like people who believe that they're heavier than they are does anybody have body morphia and the positive like a really like morbidly obese person who like looks on the mirror and sees a six pack a hundred percent there are people like that you're people like they just exude confidence and you're like how are you this confident like in their

Starting point is 00:27:03 head they look in the mirror and they think like i look great like there's a great there's a great Chris Rock bit about this that I will not repeat, but look up bigger and blacker. Yeah, which is, I believe, from 99 or 2000. There's a great Chris Rock bit about it. So, I assure you, there are, I didn't actually know from a medical sense

Starting point is 00:27:23 if people actually looked in the mirror when they are unhealthy and see the perfect physique. But that's kind of what I was thinking, like, that Tennessee response was. It's like, who are you to say that those teams are inferior? Why are they inferior specifically, Andy? Can somebody explain to me why we think they were. Traditionally, SEC teams in that region of the rankings are better and like a team like Vanderbilt or Illinois would be inferior.

Starting point is 00:27:49 Illinois was a nine-win team this year. Tennessee was an eight-win team. They both had eight wins coming in. Who are you to say that Illinois is an inferior team? They're not. And this is something everybody needs to get used to. Like the middle of the big 10 and the middle in the SEC were different. in years past i don't think they're much different now and i think they're going to get more

Starting point is 00:28:11 and more the same as the years go yeah and like this is kind of like the thing that i was trying to discuss and got a lot of pushback i think in the middle of the season it's like if you hold the big 10 standings and the cc standings next to each other and you compare teams five six seven and eight to one another like maybe like five and six and seven even like some of them were french playoff team. So maybe the SEC still has a slight advantage because I think that we think that Texas is much better than Michigan. Oklahoma played Michigan. They beat them. And Oklahoma played Michigan and beat them. But I don't know that I would say that Missouri is much different than Illinois. I don't know that I would say that Tennessee is much different than Washington. The teams with the same

Starting point is 00:28:56 record. We're going to get Vandy and Iowa here in a bowl game. So we can get get an idea that we're recording this as that bowl game is starting so we don't know what happened yet but the thing that I resent and I don't know if it's just having followed a bunch of people who cover Midwestern teams because of my background but when a team beats Illinois it is not a legitimizing thing when a team beats Tennessee we view the team that beat Tennessee as a superior team it's a validating win and I don't think that that's the right way to analyze college football anymore. And I think that it has a huge bearing on strength of schedule metrics and how the college football playoff field is formed.

Starting point is 00:29:44 And like you could look and say, well, Oklahoma is a playoff team. But it's like, what if Oklahoma, the same exact Oklahoma team played in the Big Ten and lost to Illinois and lost to Iowa, they might not have made the playoff because it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. And do not say, oh, they wouldn't have. No, they certainly could have. I mean, look at what Iowa did against Oregon and Indiana. Iowa pushed them to their absolute limits. And I think that this, it is a gut reaction from people not only in the South, but in college football as a whole, because you're so used for 20 years of things being that way.

Starting point is 00:30:22 And for 20 years, the SEC was unequivocally superior to the Big Ten. But as we are expanding this playoff, in the middle tiers of these conferences are going to play into it more and more and more. In the four-team era, our perception of the middle of the league didn't matter because we're only picking the four teams that either had one or zero losses to get in. But now that we're making 12 team decisions and maybe 16 or 14 or whatever it's going to be in the next few years, like who you beat in the middle of the conference is going to have a huge bearing on whether you get in or not.

Starting point is 00:30:53 And I'm wondering, and we'll see how the playoff plays out. But I think the SEC is two and five in bowl game so far. and one of those wins is an SEC versus SEC game, you have. And the big 10 only has one loss, and that was USC to TCU. I believe they're six and one or five at one at this point. Yeah. And there's so many SEC teams in the playoff because they get credit and validation from beating other teams that are just like Illinois.

Starting point is 00:31:20 And I'm wondering if it's lopsided in the wrong way. So like, you know, listen, you know, if you're a Tennessee fan and you're annoyed, I would love you to send Andy and I are an email. and outlined specifically why Tennessee is not inferior or equal to Illinois. The game with both quarterbacks playing, like I don't know off the top of my head if there was a heck of a lot of opt-outs on one side. I don't-look Altmyer, who started his career in the SEC and then moved to the Big Ten. Yeah, but both quarterbacks were playing in the game.

Starting point is 00:31:51 Like, I don't think it's a fact that Illinois is an inferior team. So, well, and as producer River, Aval for Life points out. about this year's Tennessee team did not beat an FBS team that had a winning record. Right. So, you know, this world of, you know, we just, they're in the SEC, so they're automatically superior, I think is a disease that can, like, change a fan's perspective of what's rational, and I think it can change the playoff field.

Starting point is 00:32:21 And like, as years of data comes along, and maybe it's going to take a team like Illinois, like, I mean, like, listen, Indiana's doing it. So, but like, it's also going to take, it's also going to take an objective group that evaluates players and talent every year to do it. Like the second the Big Ten beats the SEC in draft picks. Yeah. Then we can talk about it because that's right now.

Starting point is 00:32:50 And there's no like, I know people want to say, well, there's a bias for the SEC. There's no bias for the SEC among NFL scouts. Their jobs depend on finding the best players. Yeah. Yeah. And if you have a bias in the, excuse me, if you have a bias in the NFL, you're going to get fired. Right. Right.

Starting point is 00:33:10 So, but last year, it got a little closer. The gap, now, there have been some closer years, like, 20203, I believe the, the Big Ten was, I think, seven or eight away from the SEC. Then the gap was bigger again in 24. Last year, the SEC had 79 draft picks and the Big Ten had seven. So, or excuse me, Big Ten at 71. So there was eight picks different. Now the Big Ten has two more teams. So to get it totally even, you'd have to get the same number of picks per team.

Starting point is 00:33:39 So the Big Ten would have to be, I think, like four picks ahead of the SEC to be even. And like there were a few. Which we may be getting toward. I, like, I'm fascinated to see this year's draft classes to see how it all winds up. Well, I think it's an interesting thought exercise. But, you know, I know some Georgia teams, Ohio State teams, Alabama teams have had 10, 12 players drafted in a single draft. But if you are a team that has six or seven players selected in one draft, you were a really good team, right? Guess how many pro prospects Illinois has right now as players who are going to be selected?

Starting point is 00:34:15 And I know there's a line of demarcation, too, between like having a bunch of like top tier first round picks and a bunch of players that are drafted between fourth and seventh round. I think you need to have certain number of players that are like truly remarkable. that get taken in that first round to actually get over the hump. But Illinois has seven players that I'm looking at right now that are going to be drafted this year. So, like, how many is Tennessee going to have? You know, I may be the same number, but like it's not like it's seven to nothing.

Starting point is 00:34:42 It may not be the same number. And that's the other part you need to consider is, was Illinois maybe more talented than Tennessee? I don't know. I don't know if I'm willing to go that far, all I know is that, like, Brett Bilemo was super excited before the year started for a reason. And I have an NFL draft buddy that I grew up with who works as a scout for an NFL team. And he said that Illinois was amongst one of the most physically impressive teams that they saw in camp in terms of like what it looked like from the eye test in the way that they practiced and stuff.

Starting point is 00:35:17 So I'm looking here and you have Gabe Yacchis, the outside linebacker who's really, really good. Xavier Scott, the corner, J.C. Davis, an offensive tackle. And I don't know, is Luke Altmire going to get drafted? Like, is that a thing? Luke Altmire's going to make a team. I don't know if he's, I don't know where, if he's getting drafted, but he's going to make a team. So, like that, yeah. And that's what's so interesting about this, because it's not necessarily at the top.

Starting point is 00:35:42 Like, we, we know the top level big 10 teams are really good. Two of them won the national title the last two years. We know the top level SEC teams are really good. It's the middle of it. Because, like, the SEC would have, Arkansas might put six guys in the draft, but go seven and five. Right. And I think we're, we're getting into the point where they're going to be big 10 teams that do that now. Right.

Starting point is 00:36:07 Because of NIL, because of the portal, because it's just, it's a, it's a free market and everything flows to where it needs to be. Like, people are going to flow to where they can play and get looks and that's going to help them get to the NFL. And also this reputation that you have to play in the SEC to have a better chance of getting to the NFL, if the Big Ten can close the gap on that, then that disappears as well. And like Illinois had an awful, awful game on the road at Wisconsin at the end of the year. There's no getting around. But their other three losses were to Indiana on the road. That was a really bad loss. They got destroyed.

Starting point is 00:36:48 Yeah. But they beat USC at home the following week or the following game. I think they might have had a buy week in between. I can't remember. And then they lost to Ohio State and Washington in back-to-back games and the Washington game was on the road. But, like, I want to get to a point where if Indiana beats Illinois 63 to 10 or Washington beats Illinois 42 to 25,

Starting point is 00:37:10 the team that wins the game receives the same amount of credit that Georgia did when they beat Tennessee on the road in that thrilling game in Neeland. Right? Like, that, like, it doesn't. Well, see, as the season went on, I gave. Georgia less and less credit for that game. Like that actually caused more concern for me than anything else. Let me

Starting point is 00:37:29 ask you, Doug LaMorice asked me this last night and I want to ask you this. I think it's a good question. When Ohio State played Indiana and lost 13 to 10 in the Big 10 championship game, do you think the average college football fan across the country looked at that game and said, wow, that was

Starting point is 00:37:44 a really high level game between two really good teams or do you think I told you those teams were frauds? I think it's mostly I told you those teams were fraud. Yeah, but But I don't think that's necessarily the SEC Big Ten bias. I think that's just traditional helmet bias. That's, oh, if Indiana is beating Ohio State, it must mean Ohio State is bad. It can't possibly mean that Indiana is just gotten better than Ohio State this year.

Starting point is 00:38:07 Was that game in your mind a game that shows that both teams are beatable? Or was that the 2025 version of like the six to three LSU Bama game from 2012? 9 to 6, 2011. It was 9 to 6. Yeah, no, that's exactly what it was. That's exactly, it was high-level players in a very tight game where the offenses couldn't do very much. That's exactly what it was. It was just like the Alabama-LSU-9-6 game.

Starting point is 00:38:35 And now it proved to me that Ohio State was beatable, but not by just any team. It proved to me that maybe some of the teams at the top of the playoff bracket could beat Ohio State, not just any team. I just think that, like, the prevailing theme to me is, you know, the SEC, probably is better still like I don't know if you can you top to bottom talent wise I think that and the draft look until the draft doesn't bear that out

Starting point is 00:39:00 the SEC can claim to be more talented it will be true when the draft bears it out the big 10 can then say we're more talented but I don't think that Tennessee fan should be embarrassed by losing to Illinois they were pretty good no they absolutely not

Starting point is 00:39:16 they shouldn't they should be now they can be mad because their team didn't make the playoff and they lost to a team that also entered the year with playoff expectations and didn't make the playoff. They can be mad that they fell short of their expectations. But if you look at this objectively, you didn't lose to some inferior outfit. You lost their team that was just as good as you or maybe a little bit better. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:39:38 And I think that anger and embarrassment are two very different emotions. So, like, be angry. I think everybody should be angry every time their favorite team loses to anyone. Anger is part of it. But I think that Tennessee has looked themselves in the mirror and say, what are we need to do in the offseason where Illinois is unequivocally inferior to us? Because that certainly wasn't the case this year. Well, and they also have to figure out a way to make Vanderbilt inferior to them

Starting point is 00:40:01 and some of the other SEC teams on their schedule. And I think that's how you get back to the playoffs. And doing that's going to be increasingly harder than it's ever been because everybody's pretty good now. So that's right. And I'm very excited for April to see how the numbers bear out. But I would not be a surprise to see like a team like Washington or a team like Illinois or some of the ones that are, you know, became afterthoughts in like the regular season how they bear out in comparison to some of the six, seven, eight, nine teams in the SEC.

Starting point is 00:40:30 But like I think in five years, we're not going to, I think we're going to wash away this like expectation that just because you're near in the SEC, you're better. And I think it's going to help us analyze the sport and make a more equitable and fair playoff feel, too. Agreed. Hey, Ari, Texas is playing as this show is dropping. you're going to see jeremiah smith in ohio state tonight those are two teams that uh that have their own pinini products now yes you can buy texas blaster boxes and ohio state blaster boxes where only those players are featured so if you get the texas blaster box you're getting archmanning cards you're getting colin simmons cards if you get the ohio state box you're getting jeremiah

Starting point is 00:41:14 smith cards you're getting julian say in cards it is so much fun i love what pinnini's doing in the college space right now go to pinini america.net to start your collection today that's the jeremiah smith student orientation card that i have at my house and are you've uh i see you i see you moving around you've got a few i just got a few on my desk here here's lenora sellers purple crack lights rated prospect that one's to one 99 i pulled that out of one of the boxes and this is one that i hit in a break um that i'm probably just going to hold on to just from a keepsake standpoint i don't know that he's ever going to be a very good player in the nfl but but fairly big card for Shadour Sanders.

Starting point is 00:41:52 And this is a gold shimmer numbered to 15. Oh, that's cool. Like, I don't know. What do we think? Is Shadur Sanders going to be like, is he going to be the Browns quarterback next year? I don't know. I think he might be.

Starting point is 00:42:04 And I'm actually more optimistic about Shador Sanders than I think most people are. I think he has a chance to be pretty good. And the thing, like I said this during the draft, unlike most quarterbacks come out of college who are used to having a clean pocket, Shador Sanders is used to getting, you know, running for his life before he throws every play at Colorado. That's good practice for being a Cleveland Brown. I mean, I think that he is just good enough where there is a discussion in April about whether the Browns draft somebody else at the position.

Starting point is 00:42:33 I might try to roll with him for a year and see what happens. But that's just me. He's an off-season as a guy, bring in some people to help him out of FF, you know, bring a really good receiver. And they don't have any receivers. Like, I don't know. They've got a really good, promising young running back and Quinn Sean Judkins, who, you know, was on the field in the national championship game.

Starting point is 00:42:53 Speaking of that, here, Quinn Sean Judkins, Red, Otto. I've got them just pop up here. From the Ohio State Blasterbox collection. So, yeah, go to Panini America.net, start your collection today. So many fun cards. And Ari, you're going to be seeing the Buckeyes tonight.

Starting point is 00:43:10 So you've got a bunch of the cards of the players that you're going to see on. Don't forget about these guys. I'm going to see the Buckeyes, but let's not forget about those kings. I want to see the Buckeyes against the U. And we're going to talk about we're going to play the Keith Jackson intro to that national title game in the Fiesta Bowl after the 2002 season. But first we got one more one more thing to talk about.

Starting point is 00:43:28 It is a it is a college football playoff topic. And it is from OM Spirit, our Ole Miss site. And this thread just the title is Keith Carter, please. Keith Carter is Ole Misses AD. please talk to the ESPN folks and ask them not to interview Lane Kiffin during the sugar bowl. The game is for the players, not the former coach. I also would ask them not to pan the camera into the governor's box because, as our friend

Starting point is 00:43:54 Ross Dellinger from Yahoo reported, there is a chance that Lane Kiffin will be going to the Sugar Bowl with Louisiana governor Jeff Landry. Of course, of course. Remember, New Orleans is only 50-minute drive from Baton Rouge. and of course and Oxford 1952 asked if Kiffin left the LSU bowl

Starting point is 00:44:19 to not be distraction as he stated then we should ask the same for the Sugar Bowl I will say I applaud the Ole Miss fans in this thread responding to the original poster

Starting point is 00:44:29 who are like dude you can't tell them not to cover the interesting thing at the game like if Lane Kiff is at the Sugar Bowl he's going to be on camera yeah

Starting point is 00:44:37 yeah this is just a a big time troll job or do you think that there is any I think Lane Kiffin wants to see his team and his players that he coached win. I think he wants them to beat Georgia.

Starting point is 00:44:55 I think he would like to be there to see it. I also think Lane Kiffin understands the value of publicity and being shown on national television in a game that millions and millions of people are going to watch, that they're going to say, oh, that's Ellis. You coach, Lane Kiffin. And look, he's got the governor of Louisiana with him. Yeah. I mean, like, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:45:21 Is he like a 100% scumbag or like, is there a part of him that was like I recruited a lot of these guys? I developed them. Oh, I think there's definitely a part of that. I don't think it's, I don't think it's 100% an LSU recruiting play. I think he would like to see these people succeed. But like, if Ole Miss scores on the opening. I do think there's part of it.

Starting point is 00:45:40 It's like, yeah, this will help. If Ole Miss scores on the open. driving and Lane Kiffitt is sitting in a box somewhere. Are they going to his camera's going to pan to him? And is he going to be rooting for his team? Yes, he will. I think that would be wholesome. And I know that Ole Miss fans probably don't want to see that.

Starting point is 00:45:54 You know, you don't want to see your, you know, ex-wife at a graduation ceremony for the neighbor's kid, you know, like, but like at the same time, like that's what you want to see with the graduation ceremony for your kid. Right. And it's still his baby, right? Like, does he get a ring if they win? No. I disagree.

Starting point is 00:46:11 I think he deserves a ring. I don't think they'll give him one. I think probably he deserves one, but they won't give him one. Yeah. You know, it's like, you know, you build, you're an architect and you drop the blueprints for a house,

Starting point is 00:46:21 and then the house gets built when you go to Bermuda with your mistress. And then you come back from Bermuda in this house in like, like, HGTV magazine for most beautiful house ever built. Architectural Digest. Yeah, whatever, whatever the magazine is.

Starting point is 00:46:37 Like, the person who made the blueprint gets some of the recognition, whether you like him or not. He built the team. He built the team. You can't change that. Yeah. Well, we'll see.

Starting point is 00:46:49 I'll be curious if he actually shows up and then how if he's there, they're going to pan to him. Like, he will be featured on the broadcast if he's in the building. I guarantee it. I can't wait for Ole Miss fans to be clamoring for Taylor Swift shots. It's going to be great. I can't remember. I got to check who's calling this game.

Starting point is 00:47:05 I think this is a Sean McDonough game. So if it is, that would be all. awesome because Sean McDonough does not hide his disgust at all. And I can imagine that he will be, oh, it is Sean McDonough. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. It's going to be a good time. He's like thinly veiled disgust at all times with Sean McDonough.

Starting point is 00:47:36 So that's what I, like put him in the booth with Sean McDonough and Greg McDonough and let's let Sean McDonough do his thing. Let these guys cook. Let these guys cook. No, but I mean, I think he should go. I would want to go. I'd want to go. Yes.

Starting point is 00:47:48 All right. Speaking of announcers, there's never been a better one than Keith Jackson in any sport. I realize there are baseball fans who love Vince Scully and I get it. But I, for me, there will never be a better one than Keith Jackson. And Ari sent this to our group chat this morning. And I got so fired up. So Producer River playing. I don't think anybody's going to copyright strike us on a 23-year-old clip, but it's worth the risk.

Starting point is 00:48:19 They marches in tonight along the Sonoran Desert in Arizona. The setting sun almost daily renders out the complete color spectrum. The giant swarrow cactus standing as a sentinel on the horizon. This is the game for the championship of college football. And this is the Circuit City VCS trophy that goes home with the winner very carefully. And this is where the bowl championship series started four years ago in the Tostito's Fiesta Bowl. Tonight, the defending champion Miami Hurricanes and the Ohio State Buckeyes, the only undefeated teams in Division I college football after the 2002 season.

Starting point is 00:49:02 We didn't know how good we had, Andy. The Giant Suwaro Cactus stands Sentinel. Oh, come on. We had no idea. how good we had it and I will say this and like I'm pushing 40 now so like I still feel like I'm a 23 year old kid in my brain but I'm 40 almost is getting older watching or videos or remembering times from your childhood and just thinking God everything sucks now compared to how it used to be like is that what that is that what aging is is nostalgia the prevailing

Starting point is 00:49:33 thought there yes that's exactly what aging is things that happened when I was a teenager are inherently better than things or media that was created when I was a teenager, inherently better than media created now. I would argue that the music created in the 90s is better than the music created now. I have a 16-year-old son who listens to pretty much exclusively what I listen to in high school. You don't respect Green a Carpenter's game, but like I'll let you bet. I respect Sabrina Carpenter's game. My daughter listens to that.

Starting point is 00:50:04 And so I know, trust me, I don't know the words. And Sabrina Carpenter is kind of filthy. Yeah. It's kind of hot, though. Keith Jackson I didn't think we're talking Sabrina Carpher and Keith Jackson the same sentence it's unequivocally better

Starting point is 00:50:20 right like like I know that this might be and Keith Jackson was three years away from his you know his final game like this is it that's a very tail into his career so like he was this was not his peak but he was still that good that in his career

Starting point is 00:50:37 you know and it just feels like you know that was art so i don't know unbelievable maybe maybe younger people who weren't around to see that don't have an appreciation for it but like i don't know how a human being who loves college football could watch that game that that that video and not at least have goose right the technology has improved so much they can show you so much more they can show it to you in a much cooler way now but there's nothing that beats keith jackson talking about the spectrum of colors presented daily in the Sonoran Desert. There's nothing like that. Yeah. Nothing. And I think it's a good way to set the table for tonight. I will be at the game.

Starting point is 00:51:19 Oh, Ari. If you want to, if you want the folks to join you at the game, go to game time right now. Go to game time right now, guys. You can get into the Cotton Bowl, Miami versus Ohio State. Tickets from $33.33 you're getting in price. I saw a club club. level seat, about 20 rows up at the 45-yard line for $137. This is going to be a fun game. So if you want to get in the building, you can get to the building. And I mean, basically, so $33 get in price, you can get that first ticket for less than half price if you redeem the code Staples with your first purchase.

Starting point is 00:52:04 We get $20 off your first purchase terms apply with the code Staples when you download the GameTime app and sign up. So you want to go to the Cotton Bowl right now, $33 get in price, code staples, $20 off your first purchase, terms apply, game time, swipe, tap, ticket, go. And Ari, you got to go because you got to go to the game. Everybody else, hey, if you're in the Metroplex, go see a really cool game. Go to Game Time, go see a really cool game. We will be back with you at the end of the Cotton Bowl. we will be live after every college football playoff quarterfinal.

Starting point is 00:52:43 So we'll be back with you at the end of the Cotton Bowl. Ari will be there in person. I will be at Oregon, Texas Tech in the Orange Bowl in person tomorrow. We will then also be live after the Alabama, Indiana Rose Bowl, and after the Ole Miss Georgia Sugar Bowl. So come join us. Plus, on Friday, big show, big show, because the transfer portal opens Friday.

Starting point is 00:53:03 We have all the biggest transfer portal news. And we're going to pick the games for the semifinals, because, of course, we will know the matchups after Thursday. Guys, it is the best couple days of the year in college football. I'm going to watch some bowl games to get ready. Ari, enjoy the Cotton Bowl. I'll talk you after the game tonight.

Andy & Ari On3 - Lincoln Riley: USC’s window to win is now OPEN | No more excuses | Illinois vs Tennessee Reaction: Big Ten or SEC?

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