Andy & Ari On3 - Luke Fickell is ready to bring Wisconsin BACK | Getting down to brass tacks on the NCAA's big issues

Episode Date: May 20, 2024

Wisconsin head coach Luke Fickell joins the show to talk about Year 2 with the Badgers. Wisconsin went 7-6 in Fickell’s first season, and he believes he’s identified the issues that fed into the Badgers’ late-season slide and plans to correct him.(0:00-7:49) Intro - Andy's Top 25(7:50-11:12) Wisconsin in 2024(11:13-32:15) Wisconsin Head Coach Luke Fickell joins(32:16-52:10) Pete Nakos joins us to break down the future of collegiate athletics(52:11-56:10) Transfer Portal News - General Booty(56:11-1:00:00) Coaching Rules(1:00:01-1:01:27) ConclusionFickell explains how different his second spring in Madison has felt. Plus, he and Andy discuss how Fickell used Year 2 as a major launching pad during his tenure at Cincinnati. Fickell also talks about why he’d like the quarterback competition between Miami transfer Tyler Van Dyke and Braedyn Locke to continue through the summer.Next, On3’s Pate Nakos joins Andy to discuss some of the big issues that could be coming to a head in college sports in the next few weeks. A settlement has been proposed in House v. NCAA that would usher in revenue sharing with athletes, but there are a lot of logistical hurdles.Plus, Pete updates us on some of the last action in the spring transfer portal window.Want to watch the show instead? Head on over to YouTube and join us LIVE, M-F at 8 am et! https://youtube.com/live/pAwepeGQUBw

Welcome to Andy Staples on three. Happy Monday. We are going to get you into your week with a very special guest. Wisconsin head coach Luke Pickle joins us. You will be pumped after you hear him. He's one of those guys that when you hear him talk, you're like, oh, everything that happened at Cincinnati makes total sense. Everything.

Like this is how you got a group of five team into the four-team college football playoff. Makes perfect sense. Now, he's got work to do at Wisconsin. They were 7-6 last year. They were not what they thought they'd be. He knows that to get them where they want to be, there's a little bit to climb here. We'll talk to him about that, about what needs to happen, mentality that needs to change, how you manage that quarterback room. They got Tyler Van Dyke in from Miami, Braden Locke, who came from Mississippi State before

last season. He was the backup last year. They're fighting it out for the starting job. That is going to be a fascinating situation to watch in Wisconsin because I don't think Luke Fickle would have taken that job. I don't think he would have left Cincinnati for that job unless he thought Wisconsin was a team that he could put in the college football playoff and not just once, but fairly regularly. We'll talk to him in a second. Also, I am hard at work right now. Hard at work. I am in the take minds. I am in the ranking minds. On Tuesday, I will debut my post portal top 25. And for those who've been listening for a long

time and watching for a long time or reading for a long time. You know, I try to avoid ranking college football teams whenever possible. I'm turning over a new leaf. I'm coming back to the ranking game because if you remember, I was a voter in the AP poll from 2009 to 2013. When I finished that, I tried to actively avoid ranking college football teams as much as possible. I tried to rank anything else. I had the random ranking in my Dear Andy column where we would rank anything. The amount of irony in the situations in the Alanis Morissette song, ironic. We ranked those. Spoiler alert. Very few of those things are ironic. Most of them are coincidental.

One of them is just we're planning. That's the spoons and the knife. The no smoking sign on your cigarette break. You should probably know that you work there. Okay. See, that's how we did that. It was mostly to avoid having to rank college football teams because I knew what would happen when I did. You would just bury me.

Avalanche of criticism. How could you rank this team 23 and my team 24? How dare you, sir? Don't you know that we are vastly improved this year? I get it. I know. Now, we also had a ranking on the old show. The Andy Staple Show Computer Laptop Organized Win Nexus.

You can take the first letter and figure out what that means. That's Andy Staple's Show Computer Laptop Organized Win Nexus. And that was fun for a minute. Because what we would do is basically make fun of all the rankings tropes every year. Like we would perpetually overrate Notre Dame. Whatever we thought Notre Dame was, you bump them up a bunch of spots. For Michigan and Ohio State, whichever one we actually thought was better. We'd put lower ditto for Texas and Texas A&M. And we put the graphic out. People would take it very seriously. It would be tremendous until we tried to do an entire show about it.

When it was a five minute bit spot on, we did an entire show about it, beat it into the ground. It was one of those, when I was recording the show, I knew this is going to be terrible. And the reaction when the show came out was, this is indeed terrible. So we have retired that bit. I will, I mean, I killed it. Let's be perfectly honest. That's my fault, but at least I listened. At least I listened to you. So I am now in earnest creating a post portal top 25. I'm sure I will severely overrate some team that you think is terrible. I'm sure I will

severely underrate some team you think is great, but invite your criticism again it's a new day bring it on feel free to just blow torch it don't care I'm ready this time I have steeled myself. That's tomorrow morning. Tomorrow's show, we will unveil the Post Portal Top 25. Jesse Simonton will be here to yell at me, and then I will in return yell at him about his Post Spring Post Portal

Top Position Group Rankings. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. He's getting it worse from you guys. Way worse because everybody thinks they're DBU or they're RBU. And when they're put up against other teams that might actually be DBU or RBU, they get in their feelings a little bit. So we'll talk about that. We will debate the rankings. I will try not to forget anyone. There was a time when I was an AP voter and I forgot Ohio State on my AP poll ballot. And the way that works is

you've got all your teams listed and then you try to start moving them around based on the results of that week's games. And in the particular case of Ohio State that particular week, I believe is after the week one games. So it was even worse. Everybody's just waiting to see what it is. And so what you do is you move them around. You're like, okay, I think I've got them a little too low. I want to move them up, but I don't know exactly where I want to move them. So I'm going to, you highlight it in the document and you hit cut instead of copy. And then it disappears. And you're like, well, I had Ohio State in there. So you don't even think about it again. And you realize, oh crap, I forgot Ohio State. When the AP poll comes out and everyone's yelling at you, where's Ohio State? How come you

don't think Ohio State is worthy of a top 25 ranking when they're clearly a top 10 team? That's where you just, you got to fall on your sword, hand up. I forgot. That's what I did. Within like 30 seconds, I'm like, I could try to retcon some reasons here, but it's not going to work. So I'll just be honest with the people. I forgot it, Ohio State. I was moving things around and I forgot. And I put them where they belong, which I think was right around the top, you know, in the top five, I think at that point. I can't remember what year was even, but they were a very good team. That's all you can do. The good thing is, it's the Internet.

With the eight people, I had to wait another week. I could correct immediately if I forget one tomorrow. But let's hope I don't do that. Let's try to remember everybody from the get-go and just know it's not personal. Unless it's your team, then it is personal. Because as we all know, I hate your team. I love your rival. I have 37 different college degrees, all from rivals of your favorite schools. That's how this works. Can't wait.

Now, where, if anywhere, will I put Wisconsin in this post-portal, post-spring top 25? That is a great question. Andrew says, as an Oregon fan, having to play at Wisconsin scares me. November 16th will say a lot about the Ducks. Yeah, going to Madison in November. And it's interesting because, you know, Oregon is pretty far up in the country too, but it doesn't get the kind of cold in Oregon that it gets in Wisconsin. So that will be a very interesting game.

Ryan in the chat, as an Alabama fan, I'd be lying if I said I was worried about our trip to Wisconsin. That might be the fifth or sixth toughest game on the schedule. Ooh, interesting. Our friend Cody Belair thinks that's an upset watch game for Alabama. I don't really think it's an upset watch game for Alabama. I think that's one of those kind of measuring stick games for Wisconsin where you will have a better idea of where they're going to fit into the Big Ten once we see them play against Alabama. But I will say, after talking to Luke Fickle, we'll see if that changes. Because one thing I will say, this is something we're going to get into. Year two at Cincinnati was very different

than year one for Luke Fickle because he figured a lot of stuff out. And I think it's hard for first-year coaches to know what they're inheriting, to truly understand. Even if you've been watching from afar, even if you have a pretty good idea if you've been recruiting against that team, you don't really know the inner workings. You don't really know where the program's at. I think Wisconsin was an exceedingly healthy program for a long time, but the reason they fired Paul Crist when they did in 2022 and the way they did it, because it seemed like it came out of nowhere. Like I remember the week going into the Illinois game going, huh, is Paul Crist in trouble? Like I did, I was at the athletic at the time, I did the Dear Andy column.

And somebody asked me that question. It was the first time I'd really thought about it. And this was Tuesday going into the Illinois game on Saturday. And I wrote an answer to it. And the more I talk to people to write that answer in the Thursday column, I was like, oh God, he is in trouble. Wow. This could be really bad if Brett Bielema comes in and out Wisconsin's Wisconsin. And sure enough, that's what happened. He gets fired that Sunday. I was like, thank God I wrote that column because I wasn't even thinking about it until that, that reader asked the question because we just assumed Wisconsin was healthy.

We assumed Wisconsin was in a great place because whether it was Brett Beagle, even when Gary Anderson was the coach there, they felt like a healthy program that wasn't going anywhere, that was going to be perpetually good, maybe in the 14 playoff era, not good enough to make the 14 playoff, but kind of always right there. And they've fallen off some. And I think Luke Fickle found that out the hard way last year.

But again, if you look at his history, I don't know that they stayed out very long. So let's talk to the head man in Madison, Wisconsin coach Luke Fickle. Honored to be joined by the head coach of the Wisconsin Badgers, Luke Fickle. And coach, you had one of the latest spring practices kind of by design, right? To make sure everybody knew they were all in or all out in terms of the transfer portal. But how did that go for you? And do you think the timing of it helped you kind of figure out what the roster is? I believe so. I think twofold. Let me see, obviously in the Midwest, the roster is i i believe so i think twofold let me see obviously in the midwest the you know

the weather is a little bit better later in uh later in the uh spring um so that's a part of it too and then obviously for me you know that that date of the you know the end of the portal and for us to to have our guys here where you're looking at them every single day making sure you're keeping those connections i think is really important. You know, this ever-changing landscape of college ball, you've always got to be on your toes. You've got to keep that relationship. You've got to keep those touch points and those opportunities to look guys in the face and sit down with them. And I think the most difficult time during what we're going through, I think, the last couple of years in college ball is when they're away, right after a bowl game, you know, they go home for a couple of weeks or something. And there's just so many people in their ears and after spring ball and, you know, maybe the

semester ends and they get an opportunity to get away for a couple of days or weeks and some more people in their ear. So, yeah, I think it was a little bit strategic to say, let's make sure we can keep these guys and we're around them and with them. And that way we can have those communications at least face-to-face if there's going to be some, you know, some things that need to be done. Well, and how different is it this year and year two where I imagine, you know, your roster a heck of a lot better than you knew it coming out of spring year one. No, it is. And I think that that's what we wanted to find out in the spring. Some things we didn't do last year, whether it was spring or fall. And, you know, to find out before the actual game started,

I thought that this spring we want a lot of live action. We want a lot of, you know, true scrimmage situations where, you know, we're going to find out who wants to play and who's on a daily basis is going to come out there to play. And I don't think we did a good enough job of that in year one, both in fall camp or in the spring. And so this was kind of important to us to see, to have these guys and to make sure they understand what it's going to be like. So if this isn't what they want, then I mean, you've got options. So twofold, it gave us a chance to evaluate and make sure they understand how this culture and things are going to continue to evolve, and then if this is what they really want.

I've read a lot of comments from you kind of between the end of the season and now where you've said something similar to that where there were maybe guys who who didn't quite understand what it was going to be like playing in your program and um you know it was that a little bit of a surprise to you because obviously wisconsin had been very successful for the most part coming into to when you got hired yeah i think anytime there's a change there's just different ways of doing things. And most importantly, you take those guys that have been here for four and five years and they do get into a routine.

It's not wrong. It's not bad. It's just different. And embracing the things that are different, I think are what's difficult. And it's more difficult on the older guys. And we kind of had an older team. We kind of had to have team we kind of had to have

you know those older guys that you know had to have great years and had to buy in and uh i think when some of the adversity hit that's where we ran into some issues um and it doesn't mean like i said it's not that it was bad before it's just when things are different how you practice the expectations you might have it's not easiest on those guys well and i was going through when you took over at cincinnati those guys well and I was going through when you took over at Cincinnati and obviously that was a a roster rebuild that you guys had to undergo probably a little more so than than what you're dealing with at Wisconsin but the the shift from year one to year two was pretty dramatic four and eight to eleven and two I went back and looked at

that that first cycle recruiting class you signed and there's a bunch of starters from that that team that that made the playoff a few years later yeah and yes i i would love to say that you're going to have that kind of transition uh but you know there's things got to kind of fall in line and for us there they really did we had some key some key players whether they were great players as young guys they were great culture guys they were great players as young guys, they were great culture guys. They were great guys that helped us build the, you know, and the things that we want to be able to do on a daily basis, whether it was the Derek force of the world or the Kobe Bryant's of the world or the, or the you know,

there's a bunch of those kinds of guys that, that really helped us get to where we were and that it takes that. And whether, whether there are automatic wins that, you know, it's a lot easier to see when people win, when you win, but you know, there's a lot of things that have to go on as you develop and work and kind of formulate some cultural changes that you have to have a lot of buy-in.

And there's some specific things that happen in that year one to year two at Cincy that uh they gave us that opportunity so now that the world's changed and you have NIL and you have the players have the ability to to hop into the portal basically whenever they want to does it change what you look for in a player in terms of mentality because you I feel like with you whether it was at Ohio State or at Cincinnati, the people you were looking for, the guys that you would bring in, they had a certain mentality to them.

They fit a certain mold culturally. Do you have to change that? Or is that still the type of person you're looking for? Well, to be honest with you, that's one of the things that really made this an enticing situation. I just I didn't know for sure. Right. I mean, you're from the outside looking at what a culture it, you know, different places really are. If you're not really embedded in them and knowing Wisconsin from playing against them and coaching against them and recruiting against them. It was one of the things that kind of, for me, was a big deal. Like, I think you can, this is a place where you can go

and you can still kind of truly recruit those types of kids, even though this landscape is changing, and be successful with them. And that's what I've been, I think, happiest as this NIL world continues to evolve, is that where we are right now, where we are going to continue to push to be, I think you can recruit those types of guys. taking care of them but the traditional types of things the traditional types of people that you can still win and win championships with i think you can't do that every place i think you got to get into the transactional world in some of the different places and based on the type of kids that you need to be successful

but i don't think we have to do that here well and that that was my kind of my next question is because i was at the acc spring meetings i asked several coaches the the same thing like how do you tell a person in this day and age you want them you think they're a really good player this is a you know player out of high school you want them you think they can be a really good player this is a you know player out of high school you want them you think they can be a really good player but they do need to develop they will need probably a few years before they're fully realized is that a harder conversation now yeah i don't know that you have that in the recruiting that hey by the way it's going to be two years before you uh you have a chance to you know see your potential but i think that when you're dealing with people with a little bit more self-awareness, I do think they recognize that.

But it is different for each guy, right? I mean, I'll be honest with you. Ahmad Gardner saw us as a kid that everybody always talks about that we had at Cincinnati. And I was the first guy that said, well, he won't play for two years. He's just so skinny. And, you know, maybe in two years he'll get strong enough and fast enough to play. And he comes in and obviously plays right away.

And so you don't know for sure. But you do need to have those kinds of guys that understand, like, where I am now and where I'm going to be in two, three years is going to be completely different. And if they're willing to work work you might not tell them that but you're kind of reading that in in all the recruiting process when you're sitting there with their families if it becomes personally if it becomes all about the transaction it's probably not someone we think is going to be real successful within the program if they've got a little bit more self-awareness of what this thing's going to really be like you you believe you've got a better chance to really be a guy that you can develop

over the next three four years it's so funny that you mentioned sauce as a recruit because as i was researching your recruiting classes through the time at cincinnati i the picture that pops up of sauce on the recruiting websites from high school he looks like he was in elementary school so i think i know exactly what you're talking about when you said this guy this guy's gonna need a few years there's no doubt i mean and until we actually put him in the game and he picked six that about the sixth play he was in there like uh maybe i was wrong um but those are things you don't know about people i mean you, you know, there's an instinctual, you know, talent that you don't always know.

And, you know, the competitive spirit you don't always know. And those are two things that were more surprising as we got to know that kid in particular that we saw once he actually went in the football game. Well, and one guy that you've got to know is Braden Locke, who's one of the guys competing for your quarterback job. then tyler van dyke who comes in in from miami and and he's also competing how do you handle that when you've got a returning guy you bring in the new guy and you say we're gonna we're gonna play this out here i think that's obviously in every every level the quarterback is a unique situation but i think in every level, the quarterback is a unique situation.

But I think in college right now, the quarterback room is the most unique room that's completely different even than five years ago. Just because of the options that guys have and the nature of any of the quarterbacks at this level, they've always probably been the guy. And it's very difficult to not be the guy and to sit behind somebody. So I think it's unique. I think it's tricky. I think you've got to make sure that you're as honest and open and forthright as you could possibly be so people will trust you. But for us, it's been a great battle.

And we're fortunate that because we brought in Tyler Van Dyke, that Braden Locke didn't say, okay, well, you don't have enough confidence in me that I'm going to move on. He's got a great relationship with obviously with Coach Longo, with me, believes in the things that we're doing. And he's willing to kind of battle through some of the things that he had to go through last year and even bringing in another guy. So when you've got those kind of guys in your program, that's why you feel better because guys that aren't always looking for the grass being greener on the other side and are willing to compete and work and get better.

So you mentioned when adversity hit last year, and it seemed like when Tanner Mordecai got hurt, when Chesma Lucy got hurt, that was when things really kind of buckled for you guys. How do you build a team that can handle if a key guy goes down? Well, I mean, I think that you got to put yourself in a lot of those situations and you got to rely upon leadership. And I think as it got into it, and when I say leadership, I see myself as well. So I'm not casting stones at anybody else, but that's when you really find out what your leadership and the strength of your, you know, core culture really is when you have those situations.

You know, does somebody else step up? Does somebody else take, you know, kind of the horns? Does somebody else, you know, rise above some of the things that they need to do and, you know, maintain, you know, the locker room really, really well? And that's where I think that we struggled. You know, it's just the nature of what, uh, the leadership was and how they were able to handle it. It, uh, you know, we probably weren't strong enough. And, and like I said,

I'm not pointing a finger to anybody other than myself, um, to make sure that we were built for that and ready for that. And those are the things you can't, you don't go into the fall camp and say, okay, now we're going to say this, you know, our quarterback's out for the next two days to see how we handle it, or our two running backs are out for the next two days. Let's see how we handle it. I mean, there's some things that, you know, that you can't really replicate until you get into those situations, but that's when you find out what you're really made of. Well, and you also know how these particular players will respond and and

where you need to to improve that but yeah it does seem like year two for every coach just understanding the dynamics of the roster in the place it feels like that makes things a little bit easier yeah i think you I hope that you got a better grasp on, you know, how guys handle things throughout a year, how guys handle things, because there's no, there's nothing like the season, the pressures that happen in the season, whether guys are playing or guys aren't playing, you know, whether you win or you don't win. I mean, there's, there's nothing like that, that you can create and you try it as best you can in the off season. You try to do it as best you can, you know, in spring football.

But there's no way of really replicating, you know, what that kind of pressure does to everybody within your program. And so that was important for us to kind of battle through that first thing. And I think one of the – you know, we didn't win the last game, but I think the way we were at least able to pull out a big overtime victory against Nebraska and then win the rivalry game in the last game of the year and then at least play to a level where we had a chance to win a ball game against a really good football team in the bowl game. There's no almost doesn't really count, but that's where I truly believe some of the leadership of what we've got now

kind of took over those last few weeks of the season and then through the bowl that, you know, give us that, okay, you know, we battled through this adversity. I think in the long run, it's going to make us a hell of a lot better. Well, in that LSU game, you'd had some time to reset. You'd had some time to evaluate what had already happened. And you guys did. You looked like a different team out there that day.

So I would imagine that gave you some optimism for what was to come. Yeah, and more so than even just the game, just how the preparation went, how the, you know, you don't have some of those guys that play in those games. And it's hard, but in reality is a lot of those games, as you get to the bowl game, it's what you're looking at for the following year. And that's when we saw the different kind of group of guys that had to step up and be the leaders. And I thought they did a great job.

They did a great job in the preparation. They did a great job, you know, at making sure that there stood an expectation that you're going out to play and how you expect to play. And obviously it didn't work out and we didn't win, but you feel like, okay, we're going in the direction we need to go to continue to grow. We still got a long ways to go, but there were some things even from the coaching standpoint to offense, defense, and all in all areas.

So I wanted to ask you before I let you go about one of your incoming freshmen, and I believe he's, he's headed there in a couple of weeks, Dylan Johnson from, uh, from Illinois wrestler like you now Dylan's high school wrestling record was 143 and one. How many times during his recruitment, did you remind him that your high school record was 103 and one. How many times during his recruitment did you remind him that your high school record was 106 and 0? Well, that was the last three years. So, II I did lose three times my freshman year but we don't have to talk about those. Okay. Oh. Those are listed. So, okay. So,

I yeah, there's a couple, you know, three of them in the freshman year but who needs to talk about those right you just you just go with it just gloss over them uh no he's a guy that uh unfortunately we didn't have in the spring which you had a lot of your guys in the spring um he was obviously wrestling so we didn't have a chance to get him in here but it's funny that you asked i just i just literally talked to him today because he has not been here and just kind of checking to see where he is and how he's been doing. And, you know, it's about two or three weeks from now he'll be here.

But he's a guy that, you know, I think has a chance to come in and give us some depth. You know, just the nature of what he's been able to do on the mat. And he's not a guy that's going to come in and, you know, he's a 290 pound guy, 85, 90 pound guy that I think has a chance to kind of walk in the door here. But I used to always be able to use that excuse like, you don't get a shot at the title because you haven't won enough state titles, state championships to get a shot at the title here. But I'm going to have to change my tune because he's won four state titles. So he might be the guy that obviously has that shot. Yeah, he might take the belt from you. Yeah, I'm not sure I want to do that.

As we do get older, we figure out, we only put ourselves in situations we really believe we can win, and I'm not sure that's the situation I want to be putting myself into. No, I should add the one loss he had in high school, he did avenge. So that's, yeah, you got to be careful. I'm with you. That's one of those, like, you know, Dylan, I'm sorry. Feeling a little, you got a little tweak in the back.

He can't make the weight. He can't make the weight for the heavyweight. So I don't know that there's going to be, you know, an actual match, but no, he's the number one heavyweight in the country. He beat the other, he was number three and beat the top two guys. And it wasn't like it was something that's going to be handed to him but he's transitioned to be a football guy now and doesn't shouldn't have to worry about making that weight class not even the rest so if if there's football players out there especially linemen who are good wrestlers they should they should be sending you their huddle clips right that's i just just had a cup

of coffee with the wrestling coach and they said here's here's a 16-year-old guy that's 290 pounds. He's a big-time wrestler. I said, well, give me his number. I'm going to find out what he does football-wise, and we're definitely going to be reaching out to him to try to make some connections. There's a great transition, translation, what I believe, not just leverage and things like that,

but kind of more of a mentality that fits a lot of things that we want to do here. Yeah. No, no double underhooks. Oh, lineman, that's not legal, but there's another four time, going to be a four time state champ. It's a really big recruit for us coming up this year too. So he might be one of the number one guys on my board. Um, and maybe, yes, he's a great football, but maybe the wrestling background has a little bit to do with why he might be my number one guy. That's the thing. And since you can't actually beat them on the mat anymore, you've got to put them high up in the recruiting ranks. Yeah.

Yeah. At least if I can bring this guy in, he'll be a four-time and he can be a four-time. We can kind of pit those two guys against each other and leave me out of the mix. No, you listen, it will go on in the locker room. That's going to be,

as they get older, that's what's going to happen is the stud freshman who didn't wrestle is going to come in and all the other, all the other older players and be like, Hey, go, go, go try,

go try him. And then like 10 seconds later, everybody's gonna be laughing. The good news for me is, is hopefully I don't have to mess with, I just got to keep to be the the ruler of my own home because i've got kids that are starting to be decent wrestlers as little guys and older ones that are getting too big i just i've got to i've kind of retired from making sure that i can rule the locker room with that i can just talk it yeah got to be able to take care of the home. I think you're still in the right weight class for that. So that's good.

I'll stick there. Coach, we appreciate it. Thank you so much. All right, Andy. Good talking to you. That is Luke Fickle, the head coach at Wisconsin. We'll see what happens, but I, I'm telling you, you go look at the transition from year one to year two at Cincinnati, go look at the recruiting class in his first full cycle at Cincinnati, that 2018 recruiting class, and then compare it to how many guys started on that 2021 team that made the college football playoff. This is how he laid that foundation there. It's obviously a little tougher hill to climb in the Big Ten, but Wisconsin was starting from a much better place

than Cincinnati was when Luke Fickle got there. The roster didn't need to be overhauled as much. So there could be a jump this year. I'm trying to figure that out as I put together this post-spring, post-Portal Top 25, and oh my lord, it is, it's going to be rough. It's going to be rough because there's going to be teams that might make the college football playoff that I've got down in the 20s or not even ranked.

And there's going to be teams that I'm going to have ranked that are going to lose a couple and fall out, and you're going to laugh at me, and there's going to be teams that i'm going to have ranked that are going to they're going to lose a couple and fall out and you're going to laugh at me and that's okay but i'm not going to forget ohio state this time because i forgot ohio state that one time and oh boy it got bad a man who never forgets the buckeyes or anybody else important on threes peteacos joins us now what's up Pete what's up Andy how are you man we got a big week here in college sports and it's one of those things I feel like I have to preface it every time we talk about it by saying this is not normally what we what we talk about on the show because we like to keep it on the field and and everything you know tends to make people's eyes glaze over we talk about court cases and all that, but basically the conferences have until Thursday

to decide if they want to accept this settlement in-house versus the NCAA, which would basically change everything about the business model of the college sports. So between now and Thursday, that may change. It is the most consequential week in the history of college sports so maybe that's like the good introduction to kick this conversation off

yes yes and so let's let's try to kind of explain to the people what's going on because we saw the document last week Ross Dellinger from Yahoo obtained it and this is basically it's being it's what's being sent to all the schools saying hey right we're going to meet up and you're going to decide if you want to take this or not and if not then we got to kind of go back to the table but it is a 2.7 billion dollar settlement yep the ncaa will cover a portion of that 40 the school the schools essentially will cover a portion of that because the ncaa will withhold money that it would normally send to them like ncaa tournament money and then also what is the future part of that so the future part of that is revenue sharing in the

range of about 22 million per year um and beyond that, from my understanding and other really good reporting from Yahoo's, Ross Dellinger, there's also conversations in place for a new framework for power conferences when it comes to enforcement and things in that matter. We also kind of saw our first bit of opposition this weekend. The Big East Commissioner Val Ackerman sent out a letter to membership where she outlined how she's in opposition of the Big East giving $5 to $7 million annually

towards the settlement. And the reason because of that is there's 32 Division I conferences and the Big East is 22 of the 32 that are non-FBS. Yeah, and that's the thing. I thought that was interesting this weekend, too. There's two sides to this, but one side of it, it's very easy for the Big East or the Pacific Coast Conference,

any of those two, make their case. We're not even defendants in this case. And you want to take money away from us to pay for this thing? And what the power conferences are saying, well, yes, because that money is partially because of us that you were getting it in the first place. So we have to foot a far more substantial portion of the bill. But that's going to be a fight and and p like that that's the fight going way back that has probably hung up any sort of progress along these lines forever so i i do wonder like does this hasten any sort of schism for lack of a better term and

also who doesn't love the word schism like Like, does that not hasten this where you could have the power school say, look, we cannot keep doing this where you guys and us have completely different interests. Why are we doing this? In the context here, that's also really important is the 2.77 billion settlement. A lot of that's going to FBS football players. I think that's also where some of these conferences are very frustrated um so the ncaa board of governors is expected to to meet and vote on thursday on the settlement but for for the board of governors to get there from my understanding um all these conferences are going to have to sign off. And it does not need to be a total agreement,

but I believe obviously there needs to be a majority. So do enough of these non-FBS conferences come together and decline the settlement? I don't, I'm not forecasting that, but that that's what would have to happen for this to be hung up for the time being. Well, and the other thing is there's also other logistical challenges

even if they approve it because what they want in this settlement is well as you mentioned there'd be revenue sharing schools would be paying players directly uh about 22 million dollars a year for the for the power conference schools is what we're talking about they want to cap the amount like they want to say there's a cap on this now you can still get nil deals to supplement it but they want to cap it which is essentially what the pro leagues have the difference is the pro leagues collectively bargain those yeah and so what they're hoping and i was i had some people trying to explain this to me last week how this works basically they are trying to make it where you can opt into the class that is settling this the class that

sued the NCAA in the conferences future players can opt into the class or choose not to opt in and the hope among the plaintiff's attorneys who are going to get so rich off this thing is that enough players will opt into the class that it deters any future lawsuits that it wouldn't even work. The juice would be worth the squeeze for lawyers in the future. I'm guessing the folks who want to be the union for college football players and college basketball players, they're probably telling people, Hey, don't opt into that thing yeah i mean that's it's like ea sports all over again in the most simplified version right you had the college football players association come out and say to boycott that that's not like

13 000 opt-ins so that kind of gives you an idea of how this could play out well that's different everybody just wants to be in the game right Right. It's going to get you into a sweet video game, unfortunately. I understand that, but there's also revenue sharing on the table. Do you opt out and be in the minority and then not get any dollars? I don't know. I think you could sue over that, too. That's the problem. Yeah.

Yeah. The other problem I see, Pete, is like it doesn't really it doesn't help them in their their player movement issue like the fact that players are are free agents non-stop like that's something i'm sure they want to change i don't see how they can change that in this settlement like there's another federal case that involves that yeah there's either the federal case or there is somehow collective bargaining in the future right and that's where you do get your um the transfer portal restrictions and things of that sort included um so yeah i mean it's going to be interesting to see how this

plays out the other thing that really jumps out to me and andy you and i have talked about this quite a bit as congress probably needs to step in. I mean, Charlie Baker has continued to lobby lawmakers in the last few weeks while these settlement conversations heat up. And they don't need Congress to necessarily ratify this settlement. That's not what needs to happen. But for some of these things to be put into place, they'd feel more comfortable. And they don't want more lawsuits obviously in congress would yeah give them those protections i just don't think congress is going to do that at least not now in an election year now once once they get the settlement done and have a

more clear framework maybe but i still i still don't think they can get bipartisan agreement so i think they're still gonna have to figure out their problems themselves. But the other thing is that I thought was interesting is, is a lot of the lawyers who follow this stuff said they don't, the judge may not approve the settlement. Like the judge has to, has to sign off on the settlement. And the idea that you create something that essentially discourages future challenges on antitrust grounds the judge may say no no i mean you're not we're not settling this as the court so you can't decide it's settled as a matter of law yeah i mean that's yeah i've heard that it's a great point i think the other thing too is if they agree to a

settlement on thursday the judge is not going to say okay we're good to go on monday like this could be a six-month process some some sources have told me um and just like everything it feels like in college sports if everything moves forward this is a 10-year deal so there's definitely going to have to in right yet again in the future there's going to be some new version of this if the settlement comes to pass um but you're right and and i've had uh players associations approach me and say hey in the six month period where um judge markings needs to either accept or deny the settlement we expect there to be um a movement of players rights and athletes going to different associations i don't think that the settlement allows for that to really happen um but i i guess we'll have to see the final product

yeah ryan in the chat says future players like some 15 year old kid who is sure he's going to i don't get it well here's the thing that's not unheard of unprecedented like when the nflpa makes a cba if it's a long cba like it's a seven-year cba it's affecting some guy who's 17 years old right now who will be an nfl rookie in in five years or whatever so in collective bargaining that happens too the difference is this isn't collective bargaining. This is them trying to basically create it through a court settlement, which is an interesting way to do it. But the other part of it is, and this is the part I find interesting, Pete, no matter how that other stuff shakes out, the agreement to do the revenue sharing, it brings the NIL stuff in-house. It brings it onto campus. Now, are they still going to pretend it's not for how good they are as players?

Are we still going to pretend it's for marketing purposes? I don't think so. I think it will become even more pronounced that this is so we can pay another $2 million to the quarterback because he might only get $1 million through revenue sharing. I think that's where we're headed. I think that collectives will become even more needed in helping football and basketball programs win in the portal and win in recruiting. And when you look at it, I mean, $22 million sounds like a lot, but when you try to break it up evenly through Title IX on campuses i don't think that it's going to be like 12 million dollars to the football team yeah well it when

you want to put it in in perspective like in terms of paying football players 22 million dollars in the nfl gets you one good edge rusher one like that that's yeah that's for not just a whole team in college that's for your your athletic program yeah i mean and the the top spenders right now in college football are spending like 15 to 20 million to put that in perspective so there's definitely going to be need needed some added help yeah it's going to be amazing to watch because i i do wonder like because we never saw the situation. And I guess the system didn't live long enough for us to see it where a collective got sideways with a coach and you had that power struggle of who's going to win the money or the coach. But now it feels like you're almost going to have like an NFL GM and coach set up.

Now, a lot of places that the head coach will be the de facto GM, but there may be others where there's somebody in control of the money. Who's not like, can you imagine like all the, all over the years, all the different things that have happened at Auburn? Yeah. Like, can you imagine if now somebody in the athletic department's the gm at auburn i mean there's already some some people acting in that fashion right now with the way collectives are set up and general managers on campuses and andy it's funny we talk about

revenue sharing right and we're all excited for all this to happen excited in the sense of the next page of college sports is coming we still don't know like what college football is going to look like like does the big 10 the ncc still try to break off and form like a 40 team super league like from my understanding there's no language in the settlement that would halt them from doing that no and it sounds like there's language in the settlement that would kind of prepare for that. Yeah. So that's the other piece of that.

And what we were talking about with the Big East and the other conferences that don't sponsor football, like I do think this will at least draw the lines a little more clearly. Now, I don't know. I want to get your take on this, because my thinking is with these numbers that we've seen i think if you're in the acc i think if you're in the big 12 you're fairly comfortable with that like it's not going to be easy but you can do it like right so i i would think if this is the number that that's it that's the top division of college football like those four conferences and it's not the sec and the big 10 breaking away now if this doesn't get approved like if this gets hung up by the conferences that don't have football that's where i could see somebody saying just forget this yeah we're

gonna go do our own thing yeah i mean we've heard greg sankey now say for the last six months of he's given anecdotes about experiences where he's trying to lead conversations and no one's coming up with anything. I think that this would be the icing on the cake for the SEC commissioner to kind of be like, we can't get this done. I'm out. We're going to go figure this out ourselves. Yeah, it's it. And that that's the part i keep pete we we talk about this a lot like the sec is going to meet in destin their spring meetings next week and i always said okay they're they're going to add that ninth conference game there it'll be added by 2026 like that they've got that's the only way the math works out and like yeah it's the only way the math works out

there's 16 teams in the sec but there might not be 16 teams in the sec come 2026 it might be more than that and that yeah that that's where we just don't know what sort of dominoes this week is going to push over yeah there's a lot of dominoes that i mean we don't we just don't know if they're coming or not right like what what if there's a school in the acc who just can't really pay 22 million dollars a year in revenue sharing i mean that would take a school out of the acc i mean it's just that's the reality of where we're at i actually asked jim phillips that last week i said are all your schools comfortable with the numbers that have been put forward? He said they were.

And it was interesting because, you know, Jim's in a tough situation. He's getting battered on all sides. He was trying to put the best foot forward. But that was an answer he seemed very confident in. It didn't seem like he was trying to just, you know, put a sunny face on it. Like, it felt like everybody in the league is like, all right, we can deal with this. And so that, but that includes Cal, that includes Stanford.

Like Cal, I guess part of that's going to come from UCLA. Yeah. In the Calimony arrangement. Yeah. But I think that's still the dividing line and i i gotta be honest with you pete like if they can do that if if it doesn't shrink anymore if you can have those four conferences be kind of the top division and they can still play games against the group of five schools i don't think it's gonna feel that different the product on the field no and and the reason why i throw

out the acc out there i think that the maybe short sightedness is this is a 10-year agreement so like yeah maybe you can definitely pay the 22 million the first two years but what about the last eight years like that's a lot of money to pay out well and and what if clemson florida state north carolina get out right and and suddenly it's a different situation yeah there's a lot of that to be seen and and look what happens in this house case with this settlement may affect what happens with those acc lawsuits yes 100 yeah it's those lawsuits are so interesting and i know you were at acc meetings but i mean what a dynamic to have in the background when this is all playing out it's amazing how how cordial people can be toward each other when they're in the middle of

suing one another and i realize like the ads they're not the ones fighting it out in court but yeah it really i mean when you think about it if you're at like if you're blake james at boston college if you're john wildhack at syracuse what florida state and clemson are doing probably constitutes an existential threat yeah for you and that's tough i mean we're talking about all these these millions of dollars i mean think about what what those tv payouts look like when the three or four biggest uh schools in the conference leave i mean espn is definitely going to want to renegotiate that tv contract at that point yeah and and remember at least according to to one of the florida state's lawsuits which i would assume you don't put this in here unless it can be backed up by the contract.

But there is a look in coming up where ESPN has to decide whether they want to opt into the back half of the contract. And that look in is February of next year. So like that's coming fast. And Pete, I think Thursday. This is Thursday. It seems like we still have some hurdles to jump over too. All these conferences need to vote and pass and feel good. And then the Board of Governors have to sign it off.

And then, oh yeah, we're going to have to wait on the judges' approval. So yeah, this is not a slam dunk at this point everything's trending in the right direction it seems like but i wouldn't call it a slam dunk just yet that's the part that amazes me is is all these years where they talked about this even i mean they would just talk about it as if it was like theory yeah like not anything that would ever actually happen And they talked about it and they, they circled around it and they'd, they'd make the, they'd nibble at it on the edges. And then it's like, bam, you have to decide by Thursday, if you want to completely

change your business model. No, by the way, you're going to anyway, because I, now I think in the documents circulated, they've said if they were to lose at trial, it ultimately could cost $20 billion and everybody would be bankrupt. That strikes me as a scare tactic to get everybody to approve it. I don't think the math adds up on that. But they would face significant losses if this goes to trial and they lose. Yeah, it goes back to the reason why the acc has fought back against clubs in ford state if there's even two percent chance that the ncaa could lose in court they're going to do everything to settle um i agree i don't know if the 20 billion numbers is really

spot on it might be a scare tactic but i think the point stands that that the ncaa doesn't want to end up in a courtroom for the next decade and maybe ultimately lose out yeah this is this is going to be quite a week a lot different than the old transfer portal beat which is uh it's called we have we haven't talked to you pete since general booty found his landing spot you you nailed it day one louisiana monroe yeah he's gonna they needed a quarterback and uh yeah he's gonna he's gonna be a warhawk man i'm i'm so excited that will be my ncaa college football 25 team i was a little disappointed i didn't see the warhawks in the trailer didn't see the iowa wave in the trailer though that was spectacular. I am so excited for that game. I've said this multiple times.

I realize we're giving them free advertising. Don't care. My son, my 14-year-old and I, all we talked about this weekend is finally getting to play that game. He's going to destroy me. He's going to destroy me. That's the part i'm where like he beats me 56 to nothing at madden now oh no yeah this is gonna be ugly so uh well that's the thing we're gonna be rpo heavy like all the all the little toys they're

gonna put in this they have rpos in madden too, but I think, I'm guessing there's going to be a lot more variety on these playbooks. And I actually can't wait to hear from the folks at EA Sports, like how they crafted the playbooks. Because that's the part that I think is fun. And I love that I'm going to be able to tell my wife that I'm playing video games for work. Dangerous, slippery slope right there who's who's your dynasty mode team pete have you put thought of this uh i am an ohio bobcat so a lot of thought

in a making peaton stadium the mecca of college football um beyond that i don't know i it's always fun to take a uh like an army or navy and try to... Yeah. Because after two years, you can recruit and don't have to run the wishbone or whatever. And then it's really fun sometimes to make them... So if they really want to make the game realistic, you're going to have to go to all these different Congress people to make them recommend all these five stars to the Academy. Yeah, it's going to be fun. I think I've already signed up for like three online dynasties but we don't know yet if uh there's gonna be crossplay

on console so that will be something that we got to figure out these are the important it's it's it's funny we just spent 20 minutes talking about House vs. the NCAA. I guarantee you more people watching and listening are worried about whether there's going to be cross-console play on EA Sports College Football 25 than what happens in this settlement. Yeah, that's accurate. That is definitely accurate. But that's the thing and and one of the reasons why we keep talking about the video game is because every time i go back to i covered the

obanan trial in oakland and i remember i would be sending out updates from the courtroom and people would just be like does this mean the video game's coming back when's the video game coming back and at that point we were 10 years away from the video game coming back well this is in my personal opinion this is like the weird part of it um is like this is all happening this house for since i mean it's all happening in closed doors right it's not like we get to like go cover a lawsuit although it's more more open than most yes most court settlements usually usually the sides tend to meet in private and not leak everything but it seems like both sides are leaking everything out yep yep michael mccann had a great story on that this morning

about all the leaks coming oh yes and sportico about because because he's you know he teaches this stuff yep in law school and he's like this doesn't happen normally the sides do not negotiate this publicly but one one more thing pete this is something you and i were texting about last night i feel like we need to get the people ready for this or you think we should uh should clue them in on on the next wave okay so i i got a call yesterday from from somebody who had talked to a power conference coach and this power conference coach was broaching the idea of a a new on-field position for this this person and it was in a in advance of the ncaa changing the rules on who can coach on the field and we've talked about this a little bit before.

It's something that that's been in the pipeline because it it's actually, it goes back to the lawsuits. They're worried about a lawsuit from a bunch of analysts, like a class of analysts who get together and sue and saying, you're denying us economic opportunity. And the NCAA feels like they would lose. So they're going to open that up and let people coach on the field, we think. That vote probably coming in June? Yeah, so from my understanding, right, that's when the –

I believe there's the convention in June, and I also believe that there's expected to be a vote on this in June. Yeah, and that is when a lot of these new rules – like the four, the four game redshirt rule a few years ago, this was a, that was an early June passage and then they, they could do it for that season. And what's interesting about this one is it could create another kind of mini coaching carousel where I know some group of five coaches are worried about the start date. Like if it's if it's december 1st then

it won't be till the next coaching carousel cycle if it's august 1st you're gonna see some group of five coordinators and assistants get hired into power conferences like right now when this is what we were talking about last night like we don't know the exact start date for this do it doesn't is it immediately put in a place after they vote in june do they set a start date for this do it does it is it immediately put in a place after they vote in june do they set a start date that's what we'll be keeping an eye on and and yeah i mean how crazy would it be if a group of five school has to go hire a new defense coordinator in the middle of july right when programs are supposed to be taking two weeks off it would be wild now i i talked to some people last night and basically they think the amount of multi-year contracts for assistants now, which actually didn't used to be a thing.

Assistants everywhere have multi-year deals now. If you've got a multi-year deal, there are going to be a lot of schools that want to pay a buyout for their 11th or 12th on-field assistant, which you're probably seeing a lot of the power conference schools is just move analysts into those roles. Like Florida, the, the, the, the big joke has always been that the special teams coordinators are all analysts. When are they ever going to hire one? Well, now you just make them on field coaches. And so that would be, that would be one thing to do. The other thing that I would look for is certain positions, like where you have a coordinator who coaches a position group that coordinator may just want to focus on scheming game planning play calling yeah and so you hire someone who specializes in coaching that position group i could also definitely see like if you have a defensive line coach and you want someone to specify in on edge or defensive

yes all in the same thing on the offensive line yeah it could be a good let's think about this last night it could be a good summer if you're one of those people who gets hired to train the guys for the draft at a certain position where you're you're you know very technique focused as opposed to scheme focused it'd be a very good summer for you because you could be uh you could be in high demand. Pete Nacos is always in high demand. Pete, we'll be talking again. I would assume probably maybe Friday morning. Yeah.

Yeah. It's going to be fun. Nothing else going on this week. Thank you so much. See Andy. Appreciate it. That's Pete Nacos. He's on top of everything. And this is as pete said going to be a monumental week in college sports i realize people are probably more concerned

about cross-platform play people probably more concerned about yelling at me about my top 25 which will be revealed tomorrow morning here on the show. But yeah, it's kind of important. If you like your AD is worried about this, I promise you that you may not be, but your AD is very worried about what happens with that house versus the NCAA settlement. And so we'll, we'll stay on top of that. We will keep you apprised of all the goings on there. We'll also give you some fun stuff to chew on about this next college football season because again that's what we're really here for the games are still coming this season gonna be unlike any other and i'm telling you right now i have not finalized the rankings i'm sitting here staring

at a long list that is longer than 25 schools i promise you. And going where the hell am I going to put some of these teams? This is going to be fun. So we're going to dig in deep tomorrow. You may be yelling at me. It's okay. I understand. It's not personal. I love you anyway. We'll talk to you tomorrow.