Andy & Ari On3 - Mark Stoops Sounds Off | UNC's Kaimon Rucker | Frustrations with Jimbo | Michigan's Total Dominance

Episode Date: October 11, 2023

Mark Stoops Sounds Off | UNC's Kaimon Rucker | Frustrations with Jimbo | Michigan's Total Dominance Today's show is sponsored by Rhoback, maker of the most comfortable hoodies, polos and quarter-zips known to man. Visit https://rhoback.com and use the promo code STAPLES to get 20 percent off your first order. The BEST gear, hands down.Want to watch the show instead? Head on over to YouTube and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss a thing!https://youtu.be/BiMiuFY8Wj0Over in Lexington, Kentucky, the radio waves are king. Kentucky's Head Coach Mark Stoops re-affirmed this notion with some comments he made about the Georgia Bulldogs. Were his comments wrong? Andy doesn't seem to think so, and he explains why. (0:00-8:57)We head over to a different shade of blue in Chapel Hill, where the 12th ranked Tar Heels are getting ready to play the 25th ranked Miami Hurricanes. Edge Rusher #25 Kaimon Rucker joins us to explain his journey to Chapel Hill, his mindset every day, and what keeps him going. An incredible interview you don't want to miss! (8:58-32:54)Kayce Smith, our guest picker from Barstool a few weeks ago, is a Texas A&M alum and a huge fan of the Aggies. She sounds off on the state of affairs in College Station regarding Jimbo Fisher and the Aggies. (32:55-54:12)We head up to Ann Arbor, where the Michigan Wolverines have been arguably the most dominant team the whole season. Chris Balas from The Wolverine joins us to discuss how things are with the Big Blue, and what's ahead for Jim Harbaugh and company. (54:13-01:16:00)Conclusion, previewing tomorrow's show (01:16:01-01:18:18)

Welcome to Andy Staples on three big show for you today. Huge show. We've got North Carolina edge rusher, Cayman Rucker. Tar Heels have a huge game against Miami and you are going to love, love, love this guy. This is their best guy off the edge. Very interesting path to Chapel Hill, and he's done a little bit of everything since he got there. We'll be talking to him. We talked to Casey Smith of Barstool Sports, my resident kind of voice of the Aggies. When things go interesting at Texas A&M, she's the one I call. She has a very scalding Jimbo Fisher take coming off the Alabama game. Something that I was actually a little shocked by, but then upon hearing her explain it, I'm not as shocked as I was before. We've also got Chris Ballas from

the Wolverine that's on three's Michigan site. I wanted to check in on the Wolverines because they've been awesome. They've not been in on the Wolverines because they've been awesome. They've not been playing anyone particularly good, but they've been probably the most consistent team in America this year. And it's fascinating to see because this is a team that very well could wind up playing for the national title has a tough hill to climb in the big 10 with Penn state and Ohio state, and really won't be challenged until they play Penn State.

But then the other piece of this, Chris broke news last week that Michigan is getting close to finishing a contract extension for Jim Harbaugh. What does that mean in the big picture? But before we get to all that, I want to play you a little bit of audio. This was going around the internet on Tuesday morning. It is Mark Stoops, the Kentucky head coach. He did his call-in show on Monday night. And one of the callers kind of got under Stoops' skin talking about the Georgia game,

which obviously did not go well for the Wildcats. Here's what Stoops said in response. And then we got to go do it. You know, the other side of that, you know, the other side, if you want to do that, it's blame, complain, deny or make excuses. And we're not going to do that. You know, it is what it is. And, you know, fans have that right. I give it to them. And, you know, I just encourage them to donate more because that's what those teams are doing and and uh in uh yeah i can promise you georgia they bought some pretty good players you're allowed to these days and uh we could

use some help that's what they look like you know what i mean when you have 85 of them so so uh i encourage uh anybody that's disgruntled to pony up some more the natural response for those of us who followed college football all our lives is, ooh, he accused Georgia of doing something wrong. He accused Kirby Smart of buying players. But listen to what Stoops said. You can do that now. It's legal. He's not making an excuse so much as stating a fact. This is how it works now. And Georgia does have better players than Kentucky. Before, it was harder to accumulate those better players

if you were a program like Kentucky or a program like Missouri, which, by the way, is getting some of those guys in recruiting now. NIL has leveled the playing field somewhat, not completely, but has leveled it somewhat for this group, which it's so interesting because we got to rewire our brains. You know, when we do the 12 team projected playoff every Monday night, the reason I said we do it, we're trying to rewire our brains for next year. We also have to rewire our brains when it comes to recruiting and NIL and all of this stuff, because it's okay to admit that better players are

worth more money. There's nothing morally wrong with being paid for being good at football. And there's nothing morally wrong with being paid more for being better at football. But that is where Mark Stoops is right now. And it was so interesting watching the response because people went nuts over this quote. And I think it's because we are so conditioned to think somebody accused somebody of paying for players. He didn't accuse Kirby Smart of doing anything wrong. Now, I did find one response to this very interesting. Matt Jones, the founder of Kentucky Sports Radio, Kentucky Sports Radio, part of the On3 Network.

He took issue with what Mark Stoops said. And normally Matt and I are on the same side of things when it comes to Kentucky and the way Stoops has built the program. What Stoops says, I think we're on different sides on this one. Here's what Matt said. We didn't lose 51 to 13 because we didn't pony up in NIL. We got to do better in NIL. We do. Kentucky's doing better than I thought they would in football.

But to be with Georgia, we'll have to do that. But we lost 51-13 because we were unprepared. We were out-schemed. Our players made stupid penalties. We did terrible things, and we got crushed. If you lose by seven on the road to Georgia, I'm fine saying, you know what? We're going to have to go get better players. But I don't think you can say that when you looked awful on Saturday.

And, by the way, you got a roster full of players that will hear those comments and go, what do you mean? What do you mean? You got to get better dudes than us. I think if Mark Stoops has done almost everything right since he's been here, I think when he speaks publicly, he usually does an amazing job. This is a rare whiff. I don't think this is a whiff. That's where Matt and I disagree on this. Matt says if Georgia was better prepared, if they did less stupid things, they don't get beat 51 to 13. Okay. So maybe they lose

by 28 instead of 38, but they still would have lost. It still would have been not pretty because Georgia took them very seriously and Georgia has much better players. Matt says, you got a whole roster full of guys who hear that. They just played against Georgia. They know they're not as good as their Georgia counterparts for the most part. Deion Walker, who we had on the show last week, he could probably start at Georgia.

How many other Kentucky starters would you say that about? One, two? Would you say it about any more? That's the difference. That's the point that Mark Stoops is making. Now, why I find it interesting that he's telling the fans to dig deeper when really you're basically diverting your donation from the donation pile that funds Mark Stoops' salary to a pile that would fund players. And that's fine. That's his choice because I think that's one of those rising tide floats all boats if he can get that sort of money invested in the players as well, because that is how you become competitive with Georgia. In fact, here's how to look at it. This is the first time we have seen Georgia look the way we

thought Georgia was going to look all season. You don't want to know why? Because they took Kentucky very seriously. They watched Kentucky dismantle Florida. They watched Kentucky play earlier this season. They're like, that's a pretty good team. We have to be serious about this. We can't fart around because they might beat us if we don't. And Georgia took it very seriously and played its best game. That's actually a credit to Kentucky, the roster they have, and the coaches they have. Unfortunately, it ends up getting you beat 51 to 13. But Mark Stoops is not wrong in that to take the next step, you have to have players like they have. And Kentucky has repeatedly in the Mark Stoops era improved its roster over and over and over again.

They get a little bit better each year, but to compete with Georgia, there has to be a pretty big jump. And NIL, contrary to what the doomsayers told you, is not allowing the Georgias to get so much better than everybody else. It is actually giving the Kentuckys or the Missouris, again, who are taking advantage of it, a chance to try to get closer to the Georges and the Alabamas and the Ohio States. Are you going to close that gap ever completely? No, probably not. But you can get closer.

So Mark Stoops isn't wrong on this. Everybody went nuts because he said, ooh, Kirby Smart paying players. Remember, that's okay now. You can do that. So maybe you should do it too. We'll see. We'll be back with Cayman Rucker,

North Carolina edge rusher. Huge game coming up against the Miami Hurricanes on Saturday for the Tar Heels. They are in the hunt for the ACC title. It's gonna be a lot of fun. You are gonna love this guy. But first I wanna tell you about Roback. The most comfortable gear you can put on.

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Crave activity. And you put these things on, you're just going to crave comfort because that is where you will be in a world of comfort with Roback. Roback.com, promo code Staples. This next guy is not your prototypical edge rusher. And we'll explain why. But he is one of the most effective edge rushers in the country this year. Came in rucking from North Carolina.

They call him Ruck the Butcher. You'll also find out why that is as well. But you are going to love this guy when this interview is over. He's spectacular, and he has a big, big game. He and the Tar Heels are playing Miami at Kenan Stadium on Saturday, one of the biggest games in the country. Here's Kamin Rucker. We are joined now by a North Carolina edge rusher, Kamin Rucker,

the pride of Hartwell, Georgia. How are we doing? I'm good. How about yourself? So you are Ruck the Butcher. Like, I saw your dad's Twitter where he's telling all the little kids to come get your butcher buttons. And I'm just picturing him, like, with a big bag of them outside Kenan Stadium just handing out butcher buttons.

Hey, you're not lying. That's probably essentially what he did. At least that's what he's told me. But yeah. So let's start with the nickname. The Butcher's a great nickname for an edge rusher. It comes from your D-line coach called you something? Yes, sir.

That came from Coach Tim Cross. It was my very first start freshman year against Boston College. And I made a TFL. And the announcers at the time, they saw it and they was just like, Coach Cross said that I was as aggressive as a rolling ball of butchery. So that was something that they really enjoyed saying. And my dad caught on to it. And so we was um something that they really enjoyed saying and uh my dad caught on to it and so we was just like you know nil was starting to come into fruition around this time

so he was like hey man we might need to do something with this and so um after a while we kind of just shortened it down to uh rut the butcher or aka the butcher and so you know that's when the nickname was made i love it and here's the thing that that is one of my favorite football phrases, but it is almost always used for a running back who weighs more than 230 pounds. So I'm glad that it is migrated to another position because I can't personally think of anything more terrifying than a ball of butcher knives rolling at me. Like if I'm a quarterback, that's going to put, that's going to strike some fear into my heart. Hey, man, the crazy thing is, man, my football personality and my off-the-field personality is no different, to be honest.

So this is kind of the irony of being called the butcher and not really being like – of course, my style of play is very aggressive, very physical, but me personally, I'm not that type of guy at all. So that's kind of ironic how I'm getting his name right now well it's it's good that you're not like that off the field but you are like that on the field I will take you back to the South Carolina game there's a play in that game where you take a 320 pound offensive tackle and you throw him into Spencer Rattler and I don't know how in the world Spencer Rattler got the pass off,

but somehow he did. But you took this offensive tackle and just threw him. Now, when you shot your hands on that play, did you think I'm sending this dude five yards back into the quarterback? Not going to lie, nine times out of ten when I do that, that's kind of my intention. So it's just like, you know, I'm very – when I pass rush, I'm very – I consider myself a speed to power guy. So a lot of my moves is based off of me getting off the rock really quick

and then hitting with any type of power move that I have, a long arm stutter bull, kind of like reducing my shoulder, a chop rip, or that's more your speed rushing move. But in terms of that, so, yeah, when I shock my hands, my intention is to either put you on your butter, either put you in the lap of the quarterback so it can affect your throw. So let's talk about that. You as a, as an edge rusher, because you've dealt with this your entire life.

You've dealt with it since you were in high school. I'm going to let everybody in on the secret now came in six, yep he's not six five he's six one I'm gonna ask you though because you're six one like you're like 265 right yeah around that I kind of dropped away a little bit so okay how often is the is the name Dwight freeney uttered to you? Dwight Freeney is somebody that I haven't really been compared to. I think people are kind of considering me more of a James Harrison type figure. But I have heard Dwight Freeney in my – I have heard it before. I know Clyde Christensen, one of the coaches that we have on staff, he does call me Dwight Jr. every now and then. What's he ever done? What does Clyde Christensen, one of the coaches that we have on staff, he does call me Dwight Jr. every now and then.

What's he ever done? What does Clyde Christensen do? He only coached the NFL for like 40 years. So he knows a little bit. It wasn't him working with Tom Brady for a long period of time. He definitely knows a thing or two about Dwight Freeney. But, yeah, I've gotten that little Freeney comparison. I've gotten the James Harrison comparison for sure.

And then, of course, there's some other guys that I've also had like play styles like as well. But those James Harrison and Franny, I have heard. Well, the James Harrison one, I you don't do you follow him on Instagram? I do, actually. So you see you see what he's doing in the weight room now I can't do it I can't do what he did that's the thing I can't just put like half a ton on a sled and push it like I consider myself a very strong individual but that's a different type of strength I can't do what he do yeah 495 pound hip raises not normal no that's that's abnormal. Very abnormal. But you've dealt with this,

and it is, for those who've never been recruited to play football, people get obsessed with measurables. And, Kamin, I imagine this is what you had to deal with coming out of high school, is people thinking, well, what are we going to do with this guy who's 6'1",

245? When we're looking for1 245 when we're looking for edge rushers we're looking for 6'5 225 that we can make 6'5 265. how did you overcome that um honestly just confidence in myself well for starters you know i have faith in my lord and savior jesus christ just kind of like lead me and just also just keep me in a peace of mind and a peace of heart because i know this is um something. Hearing, like you have all the tangibles, you have all the attributes that we want, like you get off the ball really well, you have every pass move set that we would like to have in our defense, but you're just too short. Especially with something like me is like, my parents has always told me to control the controllables,

which I feel like I've done a great job of, but my height is something that I truly can't control. So for something from at that area of my life, because of me not being highly recruited is because of something that I can't control physically. It was very, it was very dehumanizing in a way. It was just like, you know, I feel like I was worth more than what guys are just putting their eyes on. Like, I know I don't pass the eye test in terms of being the tallest guy, but it was something that I had to work through for sure. But I know for me, my parents kept me motivated. I kept myself motivated. I kept on pushing out, really just lit a fire underneath me to make me go harder each and every game that I had, each and every practice is because it's like, it got to the point where I was sick of people just saying

that I was just too short for a certain position, and I didn't want to move because that would mean I would prove other people right. So I stayed at this position. I wanted to develop and to show people why I was like, just because I'm short of this position, that doesn't mean I can't play it. I heard you tell a great story about your parents and your recruiting process that uh so you're from hartwell georgia which is lake on lake hartwell kind of on the georgia south carolina border northern part of the state you were at

the south carolina camp which is not no not far from your house no and then you get a call to go to hattiesburg, Mississippi? Yeah. Boy, that is – that's something that me and my folks like to call the little camp circuit that we used to have. But, yeah, I went to Columbia, University of South Carolina. That was when Muschamp was still there as coach. And I did my little stint over there. And, yeah, like in the middle of camp, my dad gets a call from one of the guys from Hattiesburg, southern Mississippi.

And it was like, hey, we would love to have Cayman down here for our kind of like our top recruit camp. Yeah, the featured camp. Yeah. Yeah. And so they was like, we would love to have him down. Me and my parents looking around like so what we finna do and i was just like i mean we gotta and for me like i wanted to prove myself so it was like for me i was like i'm down to go if y'all down to go but i also know it was like i was very

much aware it's like if my parents are not willing to make this drive then i'm not gonna make them make this drive but my dad he was hellbent and was like listen now we we finna go and my mom she's always down the ride so i know she's always here to support and i love and that's what i love about her too and i love that about my dad that he's always on go with me so we took the trip down mississippi first time there and um um went over there and then i don't know if you're gonna bring this up or not but i also got a call. I was going to say, you got another call when you're in Hattiesburg from that camp going, saying,

Hey, we won't came in at the Alabama recruiting camp. And so we're just like, all right. So then we drive from Mississippi, make our way to Tuscaloosa and went over there. And this is all in like a 48 hour period. So you have Columbia, South Carolina, Hattiesburg, Tuscaloosa. went over there. And this is all in like a 48 hour period. So you have Columbia,

South Carolina, Hattiesburg, Tuscaloosa. This is a weekend, like Friday, Saturday. And your dad, your dad's in the middle of working on his PhD at the time,

right? Yep. Still getting his doctor's. Golly. But what does that tell you? When you think about what your parents were willing to do to help you chase that dream, how much does that just make you appreciative of them? Oh, man, I thank God for them every day. Like there's not a day that doesn't that doesn't go by that. I don't thank God for them. You know, just those constant sacrifices that they made for me in my entire life. And I know,

like, right now, it's just like, it's kind of weird that I'm 21. And I'm just now is like, hindsight is 2020. So it's like, of course, like, right now, I'm saying this was just like, at the time, I didn't see it as much, but I was definitely appreciative of everything that they done for me. But now that I'm older, and now I look back over the journeys that I've taken, whether that I've gotten hurt, and trying to come back from things and dealing with a lot of stressors from my sport or just academics and just the constant sacrifices that they were willing to make for me in order for me to become successful. And just to always be there for me, to always love me. And, you know, I couldn't thank God enough for them because they're, um, they're great. They're a great family. They're great. I would, I would recommend

the Kendall and Chrissy Rucker to anybody. Um, they just, I love my parents to death, man. I'll do anything for them. And I thank God for them each and every day because they have definitely made so many sacrifices in my life that I don't know. I don't even know of, but without them, I would not be here at this university. So I, I thank them. I love them. So. Well, I imagine they're very, very proud to, to see you here doing all this stuff. And I thinking about your timeline. So you were a freshman in 2020 during the COVID year, and you've seen so much change in college sports just in the time you've been in it the real short time so you you come into the COVID year NIL comes that second

year you know you guys get a new defensive coordinator and all everything changes your third year what's it been like going through all these crazy changes? Honestly, just for me, it was just like, control what you can control. That's the same motto that I used back in high school. Because I know it's just like, I feel like when I came into college, I was very much aware of the situation that I was going to step into.

Of course, COVID is coming around. And I was very, like I said, I was very aware. It didn't waver me too much. I was just head down, like I said, I was very aware. I wasn't, it wasn't, it didn't waver me too much. Like I was just head down, keep on working and whatever happened outside of that happened. And so, you know, COVID, like you said, I came in in the COVID class and that was definitely a weird time. Felt like a fever dream. Playing in empty stadiums on Saturdays. It felt like essentially a scrimmage that you would have in high school.

And then, of course, NIL came the second year, and that was taken over. And then, of course, like you said, my third year, former defensive coordinator was released, and then Coach Chizik came in. So it definitely was a lot of changes, but honestly, I just kind of, like I said, like I did my high school year when I was dealing with my recruitment, I stayed in my faith, prayed to God about everything that I was dealing with my recruitment, I stayed in my faith, prayed to God about everything that I was dealing with, talked to my parents about everything that I was dealing with, and just controlled anything that I could control in my own space.

Let's talk about what you've done on the field this year because you've already surpassed your season total in sacks from last year. You already have four sacks. You've got seven and a half tackles for loss. It feels like you guys as a defense are playing so much better than you did this time last year. What has changed? Honestly, I feel like our confidence. I feel like definitely Walsall plays a big role in this because we're used to Coach Chizik's mantra now. His mantra is to wreak havoc. Our first year was kind of a little difficult because he's stepping into a team that he hasn't really got. He's not really familiar with. But now since he's in the second year, he understands

everybody's contribution to the defense, everybody's skill set. He knows who everybody is. So now he's just like, all right, I'm going to let the lead. I'm going to take off the leash. I'm going to let everybody rush. We're going to let apply pressure and wreak havoc, get interceptions, get tackles for loss, sacks, BPUs, anything, you name it. So I feel like for us, that's kind of like we've applied Coach Chizik's mantra and that's wreak havoc. We've preached that, especially this past January,

and just locking in our fundamentals and executing the play calls that we're giving, and, you know, it's worked out for us. Is that more fun, the wreaking havoc style of defense? Oh, most definitely. It's so much fun. Whether that you're making a play personally or seeing everybody else make a play, man, it's just a sight to see, and I love it. So you were talking about how you're a different play personally or seeing everybody else make a play, man, it's just, it's a sight to see. And I love it. So, so you were talking about how you're a different person off the field and,

you know, you, you get to do some pretty cool stuff. Like you were the MC of the Ramy awards, which is the North Carolina athletic department award show, which that's pretty awesome. You got like song and dance stuff, but I got to ask you about the national Anthem because you, you were asked to sing the national anthem there at the final four like this isn't you going out at like a unc soccer game and seeing the national this is at the final four in new orleans north carolina duke are about to play in a national semi-final and you're up there with a

kansas golfer and a villanova swimmer and a Duke soccer player. And you're singing the freaking national anthem in front of the whole country. What's it like? As I've told many people before, the singing part wasn't nerve wracking. Like the performance part of it, like just seeing everybody, it wasn't, that wasn't what's making me nervous. It was what was getting on the court that made me nervous. So, of course, everybody knows, like a lot of people know, when you hit the final

four, they start to have the elevated courts. So to get on those courts, you've got to have some steep steps to go up. And those steps were so steep and I was so nervous that I wasn't going to trip up. I was so confident in my singing ability.

Like I know everybody, I know everybody and myself included wasn't going to kill it, but getting up those steps because my legs felt like jello. I didn't think I was going to make it up on that court. So that was really the most jarring part about the whole experience was just getting up those steps. And there were only three steps. I have tripped over steps like, cause I've covered a bunch of final fours. So I have tripped up those steps and there were only three steps i have tripped over i have tripped over steps like because i've covered a bunch of final fours so i have tripped

over those steps before i know exactly what you were worried about the difference is when i did it nobody was looking at me man i'm telling you that was the most that was the most nervous part about it all because the cameras were following us up the steps so i was like if i fall on live television i will be the laughingstock. My teammates are going to make fun of me. The staff is going to make fun of me. My family is going to make fun of me. The whole nation is going to make fun of me. So I was like, I cannot mess this up. Well, and also you're going on national television. You're representing the university of North Carolina. I feel like the highest pressure choice is what Jordans do you wear for

that, that occasion? Yeah. I just went classic ones, honestly. I think I had the Jordan 1 Obsidians, I believe. So I just kind of rocked that. I feel like it definitely went with my color scheme. Of course, I had to rock the UNC Varsity jacket as well, and of course my merch underneath. So I feel like that was the best

way for me to rock my stuff and also the UNC apparel as well. Well, that's right. You've got the Butcher merch. That's all available on the internet. So if you're watching this interview right now and you want some Ruck the Butcher merch. Yes. RucktheButcher.com. You know where to find it.

Love it. Love it. All right. So we did talk about the Georgie War there, but I feel like guys who play at Carolina probably have very strong opinions about this. Probably have, you know, a better idea about this than a lot of people because you're a Jordan brand

school. Obviously he went there best Jordan design. What is your favorite pair of Jordansans throughout the history of jordans who you put me on the spot uh if i had to go with one i love the jordan fours i do i love the one of those and that's like the concrete yeah so it's like it's just it's just something about like the style of the shoe. And it can go with any type of colorway. And I'm a ones guy.

I love Jordan ones too. But I'm a sucker for Jordan fours. I have the metallic purples, the lightning yellows. I have so many different colorways with Jordan fours. So I'm a sucker for those. I love that. I love that style. I love that. I love that style. I love it.

I like that. When the Jordan 4s actually came out, when they were first out, I was living in South Florida. I remember my mom would take me to the Cutler Ridge Mall, and I'd walk into Champs or Footlocker and see them sitting there. I was like, oh. They were like, I think they were 90 bucks at the time. So this was like, this is the lady, 90 bucks. And, but that was, that was, it may have been a million dollars. My mom was never

going to spend $90 on shoes. And, but that's, that was kind of the shoe. I always like, if I ever can get a foot, but it's funny because the first pair i i bought later in life when i could buy a you know a re-release i bought 11s because my first my first day at champs in the mall in 1995 the concord the jordan 11 concords were out so that was yeah the white with the black patent leather can't beat it i like, you can't beat that one. It's amazing, but I imagine that's a frequent debate probably among UNC athletes. Like, what is the best Jordan ever? You would be shocked.

We don't really talk about it that much. I mean, like, it's kind of funny. With us, I can say we're a little spoiled. So, you know, Jordan school, it's like, you know, it don't matter what kind of Jordans you get, you're getting Jordans. So it's like it's one of those days where it's like you can't really – hey, beggars can't be choosers. So, you know, you're getting Jordans at the end of the day.

You're getting something a lot of people don't get. So you just kind of, you know, sit back and be grateful. Well, what a life. Think about when you were, you know, burning down I-20 with your parents, trying to get to Hattiesburg to show what you could do. Did you ever imagine you'd be sitting here? You guys are playing against Miami on Saturday. You're undefeated.

It's going to be a packed house. The whole country is going to be watching. I mean, can you believe this is your life? Man, sometimes I tend to sit back and look at it and be like, man, it's crazy how I'm doing this right now. I'm living my childhood dream. That's the best way I could put it, honestly. It's just like, you know, looking over this, just like having a chance to look at practice, looking at the games, looking at the process. Like a lot of people let that fly by, you know,

it goes over a lot of people's heads and, you know, it's like when it comes down to playing football in the process of it all, it becomes clockwork. And I, and I can honestly say it does. But when you actually sit back and realize as much as you've done, as much as I've done the past three and a half years that I've been here going on for, you start to realize it's like, it's crazy how I'm living this life right now. This is something that my younger self would have loved to like idolize, just to watch. Like, you know, like you watch like your 30 for 30s, you watch all these guys playing in the Under Armour All-American games and like they finally get to college and You see these college games on Saturdays, waking up with your pops, your granddads, your uncles

and watching these games. As a kid, that motivated you. You wanted to do these things. You enjoyed watching these things. Now that I'm actually being on the other side, on TV, other people watching, me being an inspiration to other people, my team, my teammates being an inspiration to other people, team my teammates being an inspiration to other people saying like i want to do that then me and used and that used to be me and so it's just like now it's like it's so wild but i couldn't thank god enough man this is truly a blessing and i wouldn't trade it for the world i know i've had a crazy journey to get here but like i said it wouldn't i wouldn't change it for the world

at all amen cayman rucker the butcher to his friends good luck against the canes on saturday appreciate you thank you so much thank you i told you you'd love cayman rucker how about that last answer unbelievable that guy he's going to be very successful at whatever he chooses to do, but my guess, it will be chasing quarterbacks in the NFL first and then other things. Now it is time to turn our focus to College Station. I admit, when I watched the Texas-Alabama game, I had a laundry list of complaints about some of the decisions that Jimbo Fisher had made. But I wasn't thinking about it in terms of, well,

this is just it. I'm fed up. I'm done. My friend Casey Smith felt otherwise. Now, Casey is an Aggie, and that's why I thought it would be fun to bring her on because I think sometimes when we're not close to something or when we're separated from it, don't quite understand how the people deep in it feel, there's a little bit of a disconnect. Because I'm looking at Texas A&M this year and saying, okay, they lost to Alabama. That's bad. They could have beaten Alabama. They would have been the favorite in the SEC West.

But if they go to Tennessee and win, and then they win most of the rest of their games, that's a lot of improvement over last year's five and seven season. So that's probably good enough. Casey's not looking at it that way. And I think the way she's looking at it probably is how more Aggies than we realize are looking at it. Here's Casey. We are joined now by Casey Smith of Barstool Sports. You hear her on the Unnecessary Roughness podcast. She's on the Barstool College Football Show and also the Barstool Pro Football Football Show. Lots of extra footballs. Always. How are we doing, Casey? We're doing okay, Andy. It's been a tough week for me. I'm losing my voice. I'm half sick. I still have not really completely calmed down from Saturday, which is why I'm here. I know that is why I'm here. When you text me yesterday,

I saw your name pop up on my phone and it was pretty soon after our main account had posted a video from Saturday night, Sunday morning on the podcast. And I was like, I think I know what Andy's texting me about. And I was so you know live and die when you're on i i said you are you are the person i come to to take the temperature of the texas a&m fan base and my thought on saturday night because we we do a reaction show after each window of game so after that mid-afternoon window we talked talked, I had my whole list of complaints about Jimbo Fisher's game management. And we talked about it

and we spent a solid five and a half minutes on it before we moved on to other games. And we probably would have talked about it again on Sunday's show and Monday's show, if not for Mario Cristobal. Like Jimbo Fisher owes Mario Cristobal a massive debt of gratitude because Jimbo Fisher owes Mario Cristobal a massive debt of gratitude because Jimbo Fisher's game management

was garden variety bad and Mario Cristobal's was nuclear waste bad. Yes. And also throw Sarkeesian in there too. Steve Sarkeesian should also probably give Mario Cristobal some gifts as well because we really did see it kind of in every window, right?

We saw what happened in the Red River shootout the way that Sark called the end of that game, which I thought was very cowardly. And then obviously with my fan base and my heart, seeing what Jimbo did against Nick Saban in that middle window and in the night window, what Mario Cristobal did is just unexcusable. I mean, if I was a Miami fan, which I know there's not a whole bunch of those, but if I was, I would be absolutely losing my mind because that was so unavoidable. However, throw that out, take that out. What happened against Alabama for A&M and you know, we can get into the red river shootout as well.

Cause that had so many storylines, but I mean, what Jimbo Fisher did is, is unexcusable. It just wasn't as unexcusable as just not kneeling the ball. I mean, how, like the fact I'm saying that out loud is crazy. Like all you need to do is kneel the ball and you win. So yes, it was worse. A lot of coaching decisions made me just go batch. I can't, I almost swore. Look at me, look at me. We might add the E we might not, it'll be fine.

I almost went batshit crazy, Andy. I'll say it then. Okay. Listen, you got a newborn. You're probably doing that quite a bit these days. So let us watch. You actually were still heated about this. So we're going to watch you walk and talk through New York because this one, again, you had time to calm down and you still haven't. After your team suffers a heartbreaking loss, however it goes down, you have two options. two options wake up keep it moving or think and talk about it all day option number two what jimbo fisher did against alabama was disgusting this man gets paid almost 10 million

dollars a year to mismanage the game the way that he did and i don't need to go through the list of the decisions that he made because people that are watching this are probably aware but if you're not for example one he punted on fourth and one and then got up on the podium in front of God and everybody and said, well, we would have gone for it if it was fourth and inches, but it was fourth and one. What? I don't know if he's playing ignorant. I don't know if it's just a man who's comfortable with his guaranteed money or if he thinks we're utter buffoons. But this is unacceptable. And I've been saying this,

A&M has everything in place to be a successful program, except for apparently a head coach. And I had Aggies in my DMs being like, well, you know, we have to be positive publicly. Why? Why? What is it going to take? I do not understand that mentality. And I know there's going to be Bama fans who are like, well, you said A&M was the better team. And I thought we were. Jalen Milrow gashed our secondary. The offensive line could not protect Max Johnson. But at the end of the day, Jimbo Fisher is not getting it done.

And I know if he ever does, I'm going to have to eat my words. But when is that going to happen? Are we just going to sit back and say, oh, okay, well, another game, mismanaged another game down the drain. This was the most vulnerable Alabama has been in a long time and he ruined it. Period. Done. So that sound, by the way, is your mailman showing up with a 12th man foundation. How much are you going to donate? Yeah, no. If he's done, it's a lot of money. So listen, I, as I'm rewatching that, like I haven't rewatched it since I posted it. Um, I still stand by everything I said. And then some, because I know that the original clip that you texted me about was a lot more fiery. I

probably made, um, I made some not safe for work podcast. There was a six inch joke because you talked about the difference between fourth and inches and fourth and one and that sets you off even more because I mean come on we're only I was I was losing it so much when I did that podcast Andy like hand up I can admit this that in the moment I forgot that like the difference in fourth and one and the difference in fourth and inches is not just six inches that's how much red I was seeing like the difference in fourth and one and the difference in fourth and inches is not just six inches. That's how much red I was seeing. Like in my head, I was thinking like fourth and one foot. Like that's literally how angry I was in like the actual definition of literally. So yes, like I made a six inches joke in the moment. So we do a reaction podcast as well

on Saturday nights. But the thing is, is when I woke up the next day and, you know, obviously you do this for a living, you know, that you kind of have to get yourself up for some things and other things. They just naturally stay as passionate. I was still as passionate about what happened in that game because I was so confident that A&M was the better team going into Saturday and not because I'm an Aggie, not because I'm a homer. I mean, those things are obviously true, but the way that we had seen Alabama play this season, and then the way we

had seen A&M play, especially before or after the Miami loss, which took a hit with their loss of Georgia Tech. But I believe that A&M on paper had the better team. I did not expect Jalen Millero to have the game that he did. I knew that A&M's weaknesses were in the secondary and he obviously exploited those. The offensive line has had some issues. But overall, this was a vulnerable Alabama team in comparison to the way that Alabama has looked. So I was passionate all day. I was so confident. And then obviously we saw how that came to fruition. And whether it's fair or not, I'm putting this on Jimbo Fisher. Well, and it is fair. not i'm putting this on jimbo fisher well and it is fair it is fair because you can say oh if naya smith's foot doesn't graze the sideline to a&m wins but an alabama fan would go if dallas

turner doesn't get called for a chintzy blindside block which wasn't may or may not have been one but certainly way behind the play and was dumb like if not for that alabama wins by a bunch but the fact of the matter is a&M was in the game. If A&M wins that game, they are the odds-on favorite to win the SEC West. Everything that Jimbo Fisher was hired to do is now in sight if you do that. And he calls a timeout on fourth and one and kicks a field goal. It feels more insulting to you guys that he called the timeout on fourth and one and kicks a field goal. Like it's, it feels more insulting to you guys that he called the timeout first and then decided to kick the field goal.

I just, and you know, of course in the video that we just played where I'm walking around, I'm like, I'm not going to list all the decisions, but let me go ahead and give you an example because there, there were so many things that you could really point to. And I've said this throughout the week when I've talked to different people

and then on unnecessary reference as well. It's not just the decisions, Andy, that he's making. It's the excuses that he makes afterwards because in, in the moment, you know, every once in a while, making a bad coaching decision is going to happen. Like I don't anticipate, you know, those never happening regardless of who the head coaches, but then to get up in a press conference afterwards.

And like I said, I don't know if he's playing ignorant. I don't know if he's just comfortable. I don't know if he just thinks that people aren't going to understand or people aren't going to call it out, whatever, but to say things like, well, we didn't go for it because it was fourth and one, but if it was fourth and inches, we would have gone for it. Anybody that watches football, anybody that has a brain knows that that's not how that works. That's not, that is not the correct answer at that point. Yeah. You're you're fourth and one on the plus 45. Every nerd is going to tell you to go for that. And just from a common sense standpoint, fortune, fortune favors the bold. At some point you have to say, my big people are going to go against your big people. And we're going to try to get this three feet.

You have to say that. It's interesting that you brought up Red River earlier. I felt like that was a seminal moment in Red River. 1000%. The goal line stand for Oklahoma, where Sark kept sending the defensive linemen out to be fullbacks. And there was a play where one of them gets blown up by a 225 pound linebacker and pushed back into the, into the play like that at a certain point, you just got to say, this is a game about territory acquisition. We want to acquire this

three feet and we want it more than you. Yeah. And taking risks too. I mean, again, it's easy for us to, you know, who are like the couch quarterbacks, right? Like sitting there and being able to make those decisions. But like as a whole, there are plays that even if you're not a stats nerd, that you know that that's usually the right thing to do. And in the Red River shootout too, I mean, again, we can, we can talk about all the decisions Sark made, but just even playing prevent defense at the end of it, like prevent defense in that point, like it blew my mind that these coaches are playing scared. They're coaching scared.

And that's what Jimbo looked like he was doing a lot of the times. And then to stand up and do what he's done the entire time he's been at A&M. And I have Florida state fans telling me he was doing it at Florida state as well, that it's almost just like, well, Hey, this is my, my call. I'm going to stand by it and then make some sort of excuse. It's just unacceptable. It's just not okay. And Alabama, like Nick Saban is always going to be Goliath, right? Regardless of what this, what their team looks like, whether they're quote vulnerable or not a down year, they have Nick Saban. Why would you coach cowardly against the greatest college football coach of all time? You used to be his assistant. You know what he is going to do. You know what this man has built a career and a legend on. Why would you coach scared? And he did it again.

Right. And you know what Nick Saban would do if he were in your shoes in that moment. Right. Right. But a lot of guys taking risk. And even if you go for it, you know, with the fourth and one, when they punted, if you go for it and you don't get it, at least you went for it. Like, that's what the frustrating thing is. And I know in retrospect, you can always go back and forth with arguments like that, but you're playing Alabama at home in front of the largest crowd that Kyle field has ever had with this current stadium.

And you make decisions like that. And then you wonder why people are frustrated and Andy, I'm going to lose it because I still, I mean, it was in my Instagram comment section Aggie's still being like well Casey name somebody that can that can consistently beat Nick Saban don't worry I'll wait it's like this isn't just an Alabama thing this isn't just a Nick Saban thing this is a Jimbo Fisher at Texas A&M thing it just happened to me that they played Alabama and if we're being honest this is not the Alabama of as great as they've been in the past.

Now they might be because Jalen Norrell looks really good. But at this going into that game, they were not. But the thing is, if we just take the game on the whole and like our friend Parker Fleming, who does the he does that great. How bad do we really get beat? Graphic every and it shows net success rate, basically, you know, whose offense was more successful, whose defense was more successful. Alabama A&M are like dead center. They're like four plays separating them in that game. They were not that far apart. And again, that was for pole position in the SEC West. It didn't mean you're going to win the SEC West, but the winner was going to be the prohibitive favorite. And yeah, I'm with you. And here's my thing about A&M. And I'm curious to see how you feel. And you're in touch with your fellow Aggies about this. If they can turn this thing and go to Tennessee and win,

and then win the rest of these games, or maybe drop one, and they're sitting there at nine and three at the year, are you okay with that? Are you happy with that? Or does this just burn no with that? Or does it, does this just burn no matter what? I think it's going to burn no matter what. However, I mean, you know, in true honesty, it's like A&M has not, you know,

we haven't won a conference title since the big 12 in 1998. Obviously Johnny's seasons were great, but you know, still not making it to that next level. So to go nine and three is a successful season. I mean, let us not forget, Jimbo missed a bowl game last year. However, like that to me is, you know, when people say like, you just read the box scores and you sit back and you're like, oh, you're a box score type of person. That to me is just reading the records because yes, going nine and three every single year would be awesome. But to know how that nine and three really came to fruition after all this time. And I'm somebody who, you know,

when Jimbo Fisher got hired, like all the drama with, you know, the off the field stuff with Jamis Winston, like I've always thought that that was, you know, suspect, but that stuff aside, you know, you can separate that for this, this conversation, the man won a national title at like, yes, he had Jamis Winston, but coming into it, I was like, this guy knows how to literally win national titles. And his rosters were loaded those years. 13, 14, 15, 16 loaded rosters. Incredible. And he obviously can recruit.

I mean, A&M has had the number one recruiting class when he's been at the helm. I just don't understand why it's not all clicking. And again, Florida State fans at the time were like, you'll see, you'll see. And I told them all they were idiots and, you know, got into a, you know, Twitter fight as, as we normally do here at Barstool Sports. But now I'm seeing what they're saying that without a Jameis Winston level of a quarterback, he cannot be successful. But last year it was like, okay, well we need an offensive coordinator. And, you know, you see all the memes with all the papers, he's, you know, fumbling around like it's 1975 you hire Bobby Petrino but then certain decisions it felt like

it was still Jimbo making those decisions like Bobby Bobby Petrino excuse me Bobby Petrino has done well and obviously helped the offense but doesn't it seem like Jimbo's still making Bobby Petrino doesn't get to make the fourth and one decision like that's the head coach's job so that's you're right and the question is what do you do about it because if they go eight and four nine and three that is acceptable progress when the alternative is paying 76 million dollars to fire someone like they're not going to pay that so what happens I so and this is this is where like my frustration comes in because I know how much money A&M boosters have. And you know, that's the, the Texas oil money, the whole thing that's, it's a very prototypical, like, well, A&M has money because A&M does have money.

You see the NIL deal stuff, you know, whether those numbers are, you know, exaggerated or dramatic or whatever, but you know, that that buyout money is sitting there. And like, for people that are listening, I'm not going to, you know, like go through like the financials, but like, just go look at how Kyle Field was actually built because it's insane. It's not tuition money. It's not state funded money. It's private money that built that new stadium. And it's ridiculous when you look at how it breaks down, that money is sitting there. You can't say, okay, they miss a bowl game last year. They go nine and three, eight and four and say, that's not progress. But look what happened, you know, in years prior in 2020 now COVID or, you know, we all kind of throw it out across the board, not just in football,

but they almost made the playoff. That's not been built on. You didn't have the number one recruiting class the next year. And that's not been built on how long do we give this guy to say he's got his guys in, he's going to get it all together. He got an offensive coordinator. He's got a defensive coordinator that seems to be better now. What, what do we need to see? Cause this guy clearly doesn't look like he's the guy that's going to bring A&M a national title, which by the way, when he got hired, they gave him a national title trophy with an empty plaque on it, which is embarrassing enough. Okay. I'm still eating. I think, what is it? Tuesday,

Wednesday? I don't know what I'm going at it. That's right. Listen, she doesn't sleep at all. She got a baby in the house. All you're doing is making her madder, Jimbo Fisher. Look at what you're doing. And you know, people are asking me, who do you want to go get? And like, of course my answer is, well, give me Deion Sanders. I mean, obviously like, you know, I said this and it's so true. I would be the most insufferable person on the planet. And I might beat up some people already, but if you get Deion at A&M and I mean, my whole world would just be made.

But in reality, you've got guys like Mike Elko who's coached at A&M before. And I'm not saying that, you know, Duke is going to go win a national title, but Mike Elko is clearly taking that step to be a good head coach. You look across the board and you say, okay, you know, do you promote somebody from within? Do you go out and find the next, the next big name, Jonathan Smith, guys like that? I don't know, but I do know that thus far, it seems like Jimbo Fisher is a great recruiter. He's going to get those guys on campus and it's just not going to come to fruition. And it's not just because they lost Alabama. It's weekend and week out. You scratch your head.

Now, if they go out and beat Tennessee, great. I'm not going to be changing my tune. A lot of Aggies probably will be like, well, see, you know, Tennessee was really good. Tennessee was really good last year. Tennessee this year is not the same team with Hindenhoeker. So that's kind of the way I look at it. But of course, like once I get mad, I stay mad for a while, Andy, you know this. So that's what they say when you've lost Casey, you've lost the Aggies. Well, and I had, I had some, which by

the way, Texas fans trying to dunk on me about this was very weird. So I was like, guys, see what happened in the red river shootout. Like, and I thought Texas would win that game, but, you know, pulling old tweets being like, you know, I love Jimbo Fisher. It was from when they beat North Carolina in the 2021-2020 season bowl game. Yep. They're fine. And then when he got the number one overall recruiting class,

the newest tweet was from the recruiting class in 2021. It's like, well, first of all, you can evolve your opinion on this guy. Second of all, I don't understand how any Aggie fan can sit in front of this TV or sit at Kyle Field or the opposing field and say, this guy is Second of all, like, I don't understand how any Aggie fan can sit in front of this TV or sit at Kyle field or the opposing field and say, this guy is going to get it done because he hasn't done it yet. And he's paid an ungodly amount of money to make these decisions.

I, I want to text my friends. No, no, no. I'm going to text my friends at the 12th man foundation. Trust me. They will be looking for your donation to make this happen if that's what you truly want because they're the ones that have to raise it. So we'll see how that goes. I know, but I think in this day and age with football and obviously giving a guy a guaranteed contract is always going to be very risky. I still don't understand that thought process. Guaranteed for 10 years Like that does not make sense. However, in reality, and you know,

I have a lot of opposing fans saying this to me all the time, like, what does A&M expect? A&M hasn't been at the top of the conference in a very long time. And I do understand that. But when you look at everything that, you know, since Johnny has been there, we'll just put that aside. Since the SEC move, everything has taken that step up to become that next program. You're not going to be coming overnight, but you can get. I mean, look what TCU did last year. You bring in a first year head coach for TCU with Sonny Dykes and they make it to the national title game. Look at what, you know, Dion's obviously a different level, but you look at these different places and, you know, it can't happen. Why is it not happening in College Station? To me, it's the head coach situation right now.

But I could be wrong. wrong well we'll find out we got we got it we got a game in in neil and stadium on saturday you may have a lot more people on your side afterward so we'll see yeah i'm gonna be uh i'm gonna be as i you know my son doesn't know yet he's only eight months old but like i would say like i'm gonna get my mommy juice i'm I'm going to have my wine, and I'll calm down, and we'll see what happens. There you go, Casey Smith. Appreciate it. Thanks, Andy. Casey Smith mincing no words about the Jimbo Fisher era at Texas A&M. One era that has changed is the Jim Harbaugh era in Michigan. Remember, we're not that far removed from Jim Harbaugh getting his pay cut and we were thinking he was going to get fired after that 2020 season. Now, best coach in the Big Ten, his team is one of the best in the country,

coming off two consecutive Big Ten titles. It's changed a lot. We haven't talked much about Michigan because they keep blowing everybody out. They haven't played particularly great competition this year. Their non-conference schedule was not much of a challenge at all, but the way they're playing, the consistency they're playing with, it is hard to top. And they look like a team that can compete for a national title. And, oh, by the way, they are working on a contract extension for Jim Harbaugh. Chris Ballas of the Wolverine broke that news last week. He joins us now to discuss what Michigan is doing on the field and what that contract extension means in the grand scheme of things. We are joined by Chris Ballas of the Wolverine.

And Chris, you've been watching some very dominant football of late. We have not talked a lot about Michigan here on the show because basically because of the quality of their opponents, but Minnesota is not a bad team and they go in there and just absolutely demolish the Gophers. P.J. Flex says that's the best coach team that he thinks he's ever played against. I mean, it does feel like this Michigan team, he's getting better. But I'm curious, you know, having watched the 21 team that won the Big Ten and made the playoff, 22 team won the Big Ten and made the playoff. Where does this team stack up relative to those two? Yeah, it's a great question. And actually, P.J. Flex said he thought it was the best team that he'd seen and made the playoff. Where does this team stack up relative to those two? Yeah, it's a great question.

And actually, P.J. Flex said he thought it was the best team that he'd seen. Oh, best team, period. That's right. That's right. Yeah. And that caught our attention. You know, he's not really prone to hyperbole when it comes to talking about opponents. But, you know, I would say this team's deeper, Andy.

And if you look at them with the star power they have at quarterback and running back, Donovan Edwards hasn't even found a gear yet. He's not even averaging four yards of carry against the big teams. So they still have room to improve. But now you're starting to see on the lines, the lines starting to come together. And now that Jim Harbaugh is back, I think they took it personally, Stapes, and said that, okay, we're going to go on the road against that number one defense in Nebraska that everybody's talking about.

We're going to make a statement, which they did. But then to go to Minnesota like they did, Mason Graham, sophomore defensive tackle, absolutely dominated in that game. Minnesota moved the ball, but they make adjustments. They kind of squeeze the life out of you. Like Flex said, it's like a boa constrictor and you can see it. They just do what they do so well. And you're starting to see it with Jim Harbaugh back now that, okay, they're starting to click on all cylinders and you're starting to see a little panic for example in the Buckeye fans and stuff like that as we approach the end of the season there well it's it seems very similar to me to the the 2021 Georgia team that they lost to in the Orange Bowl they are acting a lot like that team the the Mason Graham thing was was crazy this past weekend because he's coming back off an injury and missed a couple

games but just absolutely showed out with his first chance back and the the depth is is amazing to me because it feels like they just kind of finally figured out what their offensive line should be maybe in game what game four was it the Rutgers game or was the Nebraska game where they really figured out what the combination should be? Yeah, it was Nebraska. Ladarius Henderson had left tackle, and he's starting to pass block better, and that was really the key. They needed somebody over there that could pass block,

and they found him and moved Carson Barnhart back to right tackle and really, really seemed to have something going there. But the difference between Michigan and Georgia in the past has always been the line play, the defensive line. Maybe you saw Georgia's defensive line completely overwhelmed Michigan in the, in the bowl game a couple of years ago. And you're thinking, okay, that's what we still need to see from Michigan to get to that level. Now you've got guys like Chris Jenkins. You've got guys like Mason Graham, Kenneth Grant that are SEC type defensive linemen that are really doing the job and lead you to believe that Michigan can compete with those teams now.

So, you know, they still don't have the elite receivers, right? If you look at – there's no Marvin Harrison. You've got Roman Wilson who's coming on. But how's he going to do against better defensive backs? Is he going to be able to get off the line? Those are things that still need to be proven. But when you've got an elite tight end like Colston Loveland, and you've got a quarterback like J.J. McCarthy that can keep plays alive

and do some things with his feet, you know what? You can combat that as well. Well, and that's what it feels like. It feels like J.J. is sort of the X factor here because in the Harbaugh era, they have not had a quarterback like this where he has the the arm the mobility and I I kind of wonder is the end of last season where we got to see him really kind of break out because it seemed like they were maybe I don't know if keeping him under wraps was the right way to put it they just didn't need him but now that they know what he can do in these earlier games when they maybe they still don't need him to do

any superman type stuff they're just sort of testing out ways that they might be able to use him when the Penn State game comes, when the Ohio State game comes. Yeah, they need him a little more just because teams are stacking up against the run against them a little bit better. You know, they aren't going to let Michigan run for 300 or 400 yards on them like they did last year. And maybe Michigan can. And one thing Jim Harbaugh said about that, he said, you look around college football and the rushing numbers just aren't where they were. And he said

that wasn't normal. What we did the last couple of years, and he's right, you're not seeing teams always breaking off 50, 60 yard runs like we saw from Donovan Edwards and Blake Corham. So now you need J.J. McCarthy to keep on that read option a little bit more. And we saw him do that a couple of times. We saw him do it against Nebraska. We saw him do it against Minnesota. He does it just enough to keep teams honest. And now you've got another back, too, in Kalel Mullings, a big back, who has really emerged and is getting those tough yards and short yardage situations.

But, yeah, they're opening it up a little bit more, running a lot more play action, Andy, on first and second down when teams are coming up to the line of scrimmage and putting more responsibility on McCarthy. But for the one game against Bowling Green, which was an anomaly, he's handled it perfectly. And they've got Indiana this week. That's a game they should easily win. Michigan State obviously is an important rivalry game, but not what it has been because of what Michigan State's dealing with in their own situation. How do they keep them this consistent? Is it the competition at practice? You talked about the depth.

I'm wondering, is that what is keeping Michigan playing so sharp, even if the opponents aren't really inspiring them? Yeah, because guys want to play. And if they understand, if they have a couple of bad plays, there's a guy behind them that's going in that's going to be able to play and take their place. So Jim Harbaugh and people I talked to said they had the best days of practice all fall on Tuesday and Wednesday of last week.

So they're still motivated, and they're still really climbing. But, you know, the schedule is so bad. It really is. It feels like the 1970s all over again. We're dominating teams, and they're going to make up for that next year, Andy. But it's hard really to say until they get to Penn State, right? Michigan State played hard against Iowa. I don't want to just say, hey, Michigan's going to roll in there.

At least they showed some life, but that's a game they should win handily, and really it's a three-game season. You don't know what you're going to get from Maryland sandwiched in between there. They are capable of some good things like we saw against Ohio State, but they also implode, but it's really a three-game season to determine what this team is going to be able to do in the postseason. It's crazy. And the Big Ten, it wasn't the ideal time to be announcing the 2024 opponents when they did last week, but they had to do it because they had to change the schedule around. And you look at Michigan's

schedule. They already had Texas scheduled, but then now you're going to get Oregon, USC, and Washington added into the schedule. So different from this year. It'll be fun, but let's talk about Michigan in the future and in the grand scheme, because you reported last week that a Jim Harbaugh contract extension was imminent, not necessarily going to wait till the end of the NCAA stuff. And I'm curious about what that means long-term for Michigan. So first of all, how have those discussions been going and why did it finally get to the point where they're going to do it? Yeah, well, Jim, it's boiling up and we've been hearing for months, hey, where's my contract? I don't like being the fourth highest paid coach in the Big Ten, nor should he.

You know, and he started to tell more and more people in his inner circle. And it gets around a little bit to the point where it kind of forced their hand. And you wonder why it took so long. Frankly, this is a guy who has been at the pinnacle of football in the NFL, in the NCAA, and they can use the NCAA investigation and allegations, you know, to say as an excuse to say, well, we want to see what the result of that. It's not going to make a difference as to whether or not you extend his contract. So he should be the highest paid coach in the Big Ten. They know what there are some people in the administration that went to the president and said, we need to get this done. Jim wants it done. So that's why it's going to happen now. And the way we understand it

and reported it, and it has been since been reported by others since, is that they basically got a month to get this thing done. They want it done within a month. Now, does that guarantee he's going to sign it, Andy? That's the interesting part here. Number one. Number two, does it mean that he's not going to go to the NFL at the end of the year or in January and February if they call?

I don't think that's the case at all. I still think he'll listen. And that's why we watch teams like Las Vegas play last night and the Los Angeles Chargers and stuff like that. And speaking to one of his friends, Andy, they said, you know, I think Jim loves it at Michigan, but I also think he wants two Lombardis to John Harbaugh's one. Well, and that's the thing.

He may have his best Michigan team right now. And the way the NFL schedule works he'd be done with Michigan this year before that has to be decided so it's not like one of those things where if you're angling for another college job you've got to make that decision in December that's not the case he would have time to to work it out and that was my question was if if they give him this and he signs this does that put to rest the NFL stuff and that's what I was wondering you know because you're going to have possibly the Raiders the Chargers maybe the Bears and the Bears maybe getting maybe in position to get Caleb Williams

which is something that any coach who works with quarterbacks would probably enjoy dealing with although J.J. McCarthy's draft eligible too so let's not forget that but that is that is the part that that i was curious about but also the ncaa part of it because it does feel like if michigan does go through and give him the extension it does tell the ncaa we don't care what you do in this case he's our guy yeah and nor should they if you look at things you look at kansas and bill self and you know people that thumb their nose, this is not Michigan thumbing their nose at anybody. This is Michigan saying, you know what, we believe in our guy, you know, maybe he made some mistakes and, you know, a lot of people think it was overblown, you know, yeah, it was more

about more than just about a burger, but it was about, you know, a legal contact or whatever. But in the grand scheme and compared to what goes out there on out there in college football, pretty light, frankly. And that was really the, the untruthfulness about it that got him in more trouble than the act itself. So allegedly, so, but yeah, he's got relationships with the bears where he played Las Vegas. The Raiders are an organization that he got his first coaching job with. And, you know, when he was actually vying for a quarterback coaching job at Michigan, got passed up, ends up with the Raiders and loves that franchise. So there are things to watch.

And anybody who professes to know exactly what Jim Harbaugh is thinking on a daily basis, you know, I know people in his inner circle say it changes all the time. You know, he loves it at Michigan. There's no question about it. His dad lives right next door to him and his family's right there. And his kids are in school where he went to school. He loves it, but man, there's that itch. And he admitted it, you know, when the, with the Minnesota thing a couple of years ago, Hey, if it had worked out, I'd have taken the job, but Michigan was lucky to get him for a couple more years after that. Well, and he is the ultimate wild card. He said something on Monday that I found interesting.

And I wanted to run by you to get the kind of context of it. We talked about the contract extension has been a three and a half year thing. Is that a reference to getting his pay cut after the 2020 season? I think so. Absolutely. He was pissed flat out. Anybody can say whatever they want to. He took that hard and told people in his inner circle, man. And then you would assume, right, when you come back and you win back-to-back titles and you've got Michigan at the pinnacle again, that they're going to rectify that and say, hey, you're our guy. You're the best coach in college football, one of the best, and we want you here forever. And it's been a slower process than many expected, especially him.

So these guys have egos. They all do. I don't think it's a pejorative to say that. That's what makes them so great. And Jim Harbaugh is no different than anybody else. So I think you nailed it there. And, you know, he and A.D. Ward-Manuel don't have a warm, fuzzy relationship. And I think that was a big part of it, getting the pay cut. So but there are other people at Michigan, too, that understand his importance to the university that are going to make sure that this gets done, including President Santa Ono. Well, and the other thing about this is he's a different coach than he was in that situation. And before that, he was good before that, but he wasn't this good. Right. What changed?

What is it that changed post-pandemic that has allowed them to do this because we talked about the depth, the talent. It's not just that they're recruiting better, but they're developing better. If you talk about who has the most NFL prospects on one team going into this year, it's them. It's not Georgia. And that is a big change. So how did that change? Yeah, it's a great question. And I, you know, I've, I was watching green Bay last night. I was watching Rashawn Gary who never really, he was a five-star kid, never really lived up to that billing as the number one player overall, when he was here. And then you look at a three-star kid like Mason Graham and just absolutely dominating. Uh, you had guys that I'm not saying they going to say that they didn't play hard at

Michigan, but they really, you know, they kind of viewed as a stepping stone. And after 2000, after the after the covid season, you had a group of kids like Ronnie Bell and those guys that told these guys, hey, if you're not all in, we don't want you here. We need to get back to everybody wanting to win for Michigan. And I don't think that was the case. And I think Jim Harbaugh, too, kind of learned had to learn again how to be a college coach compared to the NFL. He kind of treated it like an NFL franchise, according to some people on the inside. He brought NFL coaches with him, right? Not all these guys were great recruiters. Now you've got Mike Hart there on staff, a former Michigan legend.

You've got Ron Bellamy, who played receiver here. Mike Elliston on the defensive line, who really understand the culture. And everything's kind of come back to when Jim Harbaugh played. And, you know, that whole culture of Bo Schembechler and you're starting to feel it. And they got their identity back. You know, they went to the speed and space and they were kind of throwing stuff against the wall. Jim Harbaugh, I think, kind of doubted himself for a little while there when he couldn't beat Ohio State. And it turned out all it took was a really good defense and a couple of great coordinators to change that thing and get them back to where they wanted to be.

Yeah, you cover those crossing routes and all of a sudden everything changes. Right. Yeah, exactly. Not with a guy who runs a 4'7 or 4'8 40. Exactly. Yeah. So what do they – I realize this is really nitpicking at this point because they've been so good and so consistent across the board. What can they be better at between now and the Penn State game that would help them go to state college and win that game? Yeah, you know, they still need to run the ball a little bit better,

in my opinion. They still have too many inefficient runs, as they call them, zero to three yards. Now they're getting better, and I don't think it's any coincidence that it's getting better with Jim Harbaugh on the sidelines there, but I think they were bored, Andy, in those first few games. I don't think there's any question about it. Nebraska got their attention. But I would like to see some of those backs make a few more guys miss there and turn those seven-yard gains into 40s. We saw one against the Minnesota, but Donovan Edwards is better than he's shown. We'd like to see him break loose a little bit. The receivers still, you know, they're still not getting open a lot. Even against Nebraska. J.J. McCarthy had to put some balls on the money. There wasn't a whole lot of separation there. You'd like to see a little bit more of that.

But again, the way he extends plays, his receivers now compared to a couple of years ago are keeping plays alive by moving with him. So that's getting better, but they don't have those game breakers. I'd like to see more of that. But other than that, man, they're just bleeding teams to death. And that is one heck of a way to win. You feel helpless and you could kind of sense it in Minnesota in the second half of that game. We'll see what happens at Penn State. You know, that's a team with better athletes. And, but I suspect Michigan is going to go in there with the same formula. Can't wait for that game, man. It's hard to believe we have to wait a month, you know? I know. I know. And that's, that's the strangest thing about this season and the way you know this particular

Michigan non-conference schedule because they didn't have that marquee game in there which would have maybe given us a little better idea maybe given people a lot more to to think about now it's like you basically cram the two biggest games into the final three weeks of the season and hope that works. Hope everything, you know, hope everybody's healthy. Hope everything works out. But it does seem like they are on track to be the best they've been under Jim Harbaugh when they hit that stretch. Yeah. And given the state of college football now, there's not one team where you look at and say, okay, although Georgia did play better and look really good against Kentucky,

where you're saying, okay, uh, they can't beat these guys or they're going to have a really hard time beating these guys. They could be right there with anybody. So this is about as good an opportunity as you're going to have, right. Uh, considering what they might lose next year. We know they lose Blake Corum, JJ McCarthy, uh, still talk that he might want to come back for senior year,

believe it or not, but, uh, NIL Caleb Williams might come back too. Yeah, J.J. McCarthy, still talk that he might want to come back for senior year, believe it or not. But NIL, Caleb Williams might come back, too. Yeah, exactly. He was playing for Jim Harbaugh. Yeah. And Harbaugh, by the way, did talk about Caleb Williams yesterday at his press conference. That was fascinating, too. Conspiracy theorists unite.

Well, listen, Jim Harbaugh is a smart guy. He knows what he's doing. Yes, he does. Come on. He's like lighting the fuse there. He was fantastic. But yeah. Yes, he does. Come on. He's lighting the fuse there. Yeah, he was fantastic. But, yeah, so you know what? We'll get down there, and that's when we'll find out.

And what will be fascinating is if these three teams beat each other, and then it comes down to a tiebreaker about how their West opponents played. So now you've got to root for Minnesota if you're Michigan. You've got to root for Nebraska. So you're in there watching Nebraska and Illinois on Friday night and, you know, saying go, go Oscars, got the corn on your head and everything else. Wouldn't that be the ultimate way to kill off the big 10 West?

Right. That Iowa team that is just God awful. Yeah. But if they beat Wisconsin, they probably will win the big 10 West. Yeah. Might be what lifts Penn state. Exactly. Yeah. Crazy be what lifts Penn State to it. Exactly. I don't can imagine.

It's crazy. But you know what? I'm glad those days are gone. And for anybody who doesn't like expansion, just look at this year. And then look at – I remember the feeling when Florida State would come to the big house and Miami and Florida. And it was such a great way to start the year. Beats the crap out of playing UNLV with all due respect to the running Rebels.

I know they don't fondly recall the last time Oregon went to the big house, but I am much more excited about next year's matchup than I am about, but that one back then. So absolutely. And it's better, you know, what they get most of them at home with the exception of Washington. Can't wait to go out there. That's a great road trip, isn't it? Oh yeah. I mean, it's maybe the most beautiful setting in college football, right? Right there on Lake Washington. And we're going to see it this weekend when Washington plays Oregon.

It'll be the featured game of the weekend. Meanwhile, big noon Saturday is Indiana-Michigan. That's the whole country getting that one and going, boy, this first quarter was very interesting, but I'm going to tune to something else, I think. Exactly. 34.5-point favorite, but it's supposed to be 50 in range, so, you know, who knows.

In a conference game. That's wild. Yeah. I don't know that I'd pick Michigan to cover in that weather, but it is truly amazing to see how different they are. It was hard about bringing that out, that three and a half year thing that made me think back to everything that they've dealt with since the pandemic.

Like if we'd have told you during that pandemic season that in 2023, they will look like the best team in college football, what would you have said? No way. I thought, you know what, this thing is reeling. In fact, when, after they got hammered by Wisconsin at home, I had coaches, former coaches texted me saying, this is a broken culture. They're not going to be able to fix this. And I was right

there, but then he made some great hires and these kids to their credit, turned it around. And I do think that the, the salary cut really lit a fire under him, Andy. I do. And I think, you know, as far as matters that made him, I think it made him a better coach and got him refocused again. But I never would have believed it. But to their credit, they've done a great job identifying recruits and developing that talent. They've got an unbelievable strength coach in Ben Herbert,

who has helped put it all together, and an amazing coaching staff. Jesse Minner is going to be probably an NFL coordinator next year somewhere. Andy, I mean, he was interviewed by the Eagles. And Mike McDonald's with the Ravens. But they've got it working. And if you're a Michigan fan, you say to the administration, do whatever you can to keep this thing together because that's Michigan's hope going forward here in this NIL era

is to keep Jim Harbaugh here for another 10 years and keep it rolling. Well, he got his pay cut. Now he's going to have the option to have about as much money as he wants. Yeah. We'll see if he signs it. Yeah, we will. And that's what I love about him. He is the ultimate wild card.

Chris Ballas, thank you so much. Anytime, Andy. Thanks for having me, brother. That's Chris Ballas. Great interview. Great discussion of Harbaugh, who continues to be one of the most interesting people in sports. Because, yes, he's probably going to get that extension.

Does that mean he might not go to the NFL? Or that he won't go to the NFL? Not necessarily. Does it mean he's going to stay at Michigan forever? Maybe. Only he can tell us that. He's different than everybody else and works differently. And the trajectory of his career at Michigan is pretty amazing because he's gone from pretty good to having that disastrous year in the COVID year, to even better than he was before.

And you wonder where it can go. You wonder how much better it can get. Because this has been a continual improvement starting in 2021 up to now. It feels like an ascension. They keep getting better. So I'm fascinated to see where this goes from here and where this season goes from here for Michigan. Although we got our pick show on Wednesday, T-Bob Averill will be our guest host. I don't think we're going to pick that Michigan-Indiana game because that spread is nasty, 34 and a half.

I don't think we want to touch that one, but we will be picking all the really interesting, closer, potentially, games. And, of course, we'll hit that Iowa under. I think we actually have to hit the Iowa under and the Iowa point spread since they're playing Wisconsin in a game that could decide the Big Ten West. But join us tomorrow.

T-Bob Aver, former LSU center, current hilarious radio and podcast host. He will help us pick the games. I went five and three on that graphic last week. Still have not achieved perfection again. I achieved reverse perfection before, but every day we strive. Maybe this is the week. Talk to you tomorrow.