Andy & Ari On3 - Notre Dame and USC need to play football every year. It shouldn't be this hard.

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

USC coach Lincoln Riley told On3’s Pete Nakos this week that he’d comment on the whether the Notre Dame rivalry would continue “at the appropriate time.”(0:00-0:59) Intro(1:00-19:35) A Deep Dive into Notre Dame and USC's Future(19:36-25:58) Tough Scheduling conversation(25:59-31:27) Reading comments online(31:28-41:20) Ryan Williams and Diego Pavia's trash talk(41:21-51:11) Joey McGuire on Conference Bias(51:12-59:38) Continuing the conference, CFP discussion(59:39-1:02:40) Conclusion: Dear Andy & Ari tomorrow Notre Dame coach Marcus Freeman said last week that he wants to play USC every season, and he doesn’t care where the game falls. One side is destroying the other in the PR battle, and Andy and Ari break down the reasons why this deal still isn’t done. Plus, Texas Tech coach Joey McGuire says we need to stop assuming one conference is better than another and let the teams decide it on the field. Also, Alabama’s Ryan Williams told Jon Gruden the Crimson Tide will “kill an ant with a sledgehammer” when they play Vanderbilt this season. Vandy quarterback Diego Pavia responded quickly.  Watch our show LIVE on YouTube, M-F at 9:30 am et! https://youtube.com/live/ygxSbfM5qPg Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari WassermanProducer: River Bailey Want to partner with the show? E-mail [e-mail]

Welcome to Andy and Ari on three. We are back live diving into a debate that doesn't even need to be had Ari. But here we are because they can't seem to get it done. Notre Dame and USC. Lincoln Riley talked to our guy Pete Nacos yesterday Ari and it was it's a really good story. Talked about all the stuff that they've done since he got there, how they're trying to revamp USC, a lot of the stuff we talked about on yesterday's show. With why they're, they're surging and recruiting right now. Pete asked him about Notre Dame and Lincoln goes, I will talk about that at the appropriate time, which is in stark contrast to what Marcus

Freeman, the Notre Dame coach said last week about this series, which was pretty definitive. I thought Ruby said, it's pretty black and white. My opinion. I want to play them every single year. When I don't care. I don't care when we play them. Start of the season, middle of the season, end of the season. I don't care. I want to play USC every year because it's good for college football. Now this is. Way better PR Ari than what USC is engaging in. Yeah, I mean, also too. It's a nice little. It wasn't our preemptive measure too, when it gets to the point where maybe it doesn't happen. I wish that everybody had this bravado, even if they don't even mean it, just said what he said. And I'm assuming that Marcus means it, because he's about that, he's about that life, man. But like, I just cannot imagine being in a world where we even have to discuss this. Like it's just so obvious and so necessary. Um, and like I think that we do need to have a discussion about Notre Dame and like how this might be more advantageous for them. Like I think that like competition is

good. Good games are good is like a kind of a boring thought process, but the question that I have more than anything about this is does Notre Dame want to ensure that it has as many marquee games as possible into as far into the future as possible in order to just ensure that they will continue to be an attractive resume moving forward to whatever I think that's what the Clemson series is all about. That's why 12 years of Clemson is. It's happening and I think it was insurance in case the USC series goes away. Ben in the chat in this age of college football. Why would USC take the risk? I don't know to not be soft like Andy. Our editor texted me today right before I've got a Luke. If you're watching, I saw

it. I will get to you when we're done with the show. He asked me, who are you going to piss off this week? Is that it? Is it USC's turn? Like I don't know. Like maybe we'll do a ranking of softest things that a human being can say in college football and not playing our story rivalry against a really good opponent because we've got nothing to gain is maybe number one. Well, here's the thing like somebody's lying here because the USC people say well if we if they'll play us in September, we'll do it. That's what the USC fans. That's their spin on

this. Marcus Freeman says we'll play you anytime. So who's not telling the truth there and we'll find out. Somebody's not telling the truth there. My hope is that they're both telling the truth and they'll figure it out. Yeah I don't care when they play it just play it. Nobody cares. I don't know. It's not complicated. Let me ask you this Andy. Are you even precious about timing of any game anymore? Like if the only way the Ohio State Michigan game or the Iron Bowl could happen was in September, would you hate that? How sick would it be? And I know that this is just a complete listen guys, it's June 5th.

We've got a long way to go here. If the Iron Bowl was the for opener. Yeah, I would like that. I think that would be cool. Like I know that you want the teams to be the final product of themselves and have all year to build up to it. But like you want to talk about off season. Like what if we game, when the SEC went to divisions became essentially the SEC opener for both teams usually. And it was usually week three or week four. And at the time they were the two best teams in the SEC. So the the de facto SEC championship game was being played early in the season. And then 9-11 happens and unfortunately they had to move

it to December. And that game in December turned out to be for the East and was awesome. So you could like even if you bounced it around, it wouldn't be bad. Like that's one thing that the SEC, you know, they just flipped their schedule from last year, but they also flipped when the games happen. Like Tennessee Florida moves to the back of the schedule. LSU Florida moves to the back of the schedule. LSU Florida moves to the front of the schedule. Like that makes it interesting. So do you remember like during during COVID though,

like when we were unsure whether the season was going to be played and we had to like come up with all the fantasy routes to make sure that all the most important games got played and we all just like bulked up the season and like like, I remember, I think, was I on the Ohio state beat at the time? I think I was, we were talking about like, what if Ohio state Michigan just opened together? So they ensure they play and they ended up not playing that year. And it's like, well, I wish they would have played in the opener instead of not playing at all.

I know that's not the same circumstance now because the games aren't going to get canceled. Um, but like, what if they, the czar of college football made a marquee rivalry game every week of the year? Like what if like you opened up with the iron pole and then week two was Ohio State Michigan and week three was USC Notre Dame and like every week you had College football as a whole had a rivalry game Every weekend like that would be ass. That would be sweet.

I think that there's something to be said about the final November or final Saturday in November and how they all happen at once. But it almost feels like there's too, this sounds bad because I love it. I don't mean it this way, but it's almost like there's too much good football on the same day when you have other Saturdays that are kind of, and it's like- You're thinking like a TV program or are you spreading it out? You're spreading the wealth. I mean, it's just like you just like I remember last year, like Ohio State and Michigan lost and then two hours later like that was the most monumental regular season result of the year. And like we're

already off to A&M in Texas. And it's just like in the chat. Notre Dame is trying to fatten up their schedule without being in a conference USC doesn't need Notre Dame anymore Nobody does really every game you're talking about is in conference. Not true Florida floor state, South Carolina Clemson Georgia Georgia Tech Louisville, Kentucky That's the that's that's the thing all you guys who are trying to say well, we're in a car We're in this conference now. We can't do it. That's the rebel That's people make you look soft because none of them are getting rid of their games.

Well, there's also two, it's not just that. I think that that comment is probably a reflection of people like trying to sweet, like there's this like obsession I feel like with Notre Dame joining a conference. And I feel like this is like a fan's perspective of saying, nobody needs Notre Dame anymore, join a conference or get bent. And it's like a fan's perspective of saying nobody needs Notre Dame anymore. Join a conference or get bent.

And it's like, that's not. Like, I feel like people think that as, as long as people just cancel the games with Notre Dame, they'll have no choice to do it, but there's no reckons there's no, you're not recognizing how much the teams that play them gain from a TV viewership standpoint, you don't realize how much Notre Dame helps. You know, beefing up the packages that of the networks that it appears on out of conference and also to like the tribalism Of conference games and conference games and conference games is the reason why we're headed to a super league like I oh, yeah Yeah, we're gonna get into that later in the show. It's something Joey McGuire said like this is getting so freakin dumb

the show with something Joey McGuire said, like this is getting so freaking dumb about the con the conference arguments and the big 10 and the SEC and the big 12 coaches. It's getting really stupid at this point. So the Notre Dame thing is interesting because they're not in a conference and everybody's are the Notre Dame schedule is terrible. Ari just off the top of your head how many how many power conference power conference teams does Notre Dame play this season? I think all their games are against power conferences aren't true 10. They play 10. But maybe I forgot about Navy.

The two noncon the two non power conference schools are Navy and Boise State so you have the group of five school that made the playoff last year. Is one of them. And the other one is, is Navy, which beat the American champ in the last game of the season. So I'd say that's a fairly challenging schedule. They play at Miami, Texas A&M comes to them.

They're at Arkansas. They play USC. Now, obviously they have that ACC scheduling deal. So they're going to play five SEC, five ACC teams a year. And according to the ACC six, when Clemson is not in the rotation, because they're going to play Clemson every year going forward for the next 12 years. So you can say that's not a hard schedule, but I'd say that it stacks up with a middle of the pack Big 10 schedule, which is what USC plays.

Notre Dame's schedules are always genius because they have marquee games that are great on the helmet. And then you find out that like. Like if they went undefeated against the schedule, it would look super impressive, but it might not be like it's not even in the same galaxy of what Oklahoma is facing like. Yes. but it might not be like it's not even in the same galaxy of what Oklahoma is facing like yes, but I feel like that's in the same galaxy of what USC is facing is the question and and I'd say yes And it's probably in the same galaxy is like every ACC team right? I mean especially when you have Texas A&M and Miami to start the year like that's probably the the toughest one to punch that Anybody in the country faces in terms of two a two-game package, right?

I mean, it's true. There's others out there that have some tough ones too, but like it's just to me Like Notre Dame wanting to schedule Clemson and USC for the foreseeable future are two marquee tent poles that they'll have on their schedule on top of the ACC agreement while that lasts as long as the ACC exists and Then you know like to me, I feel like the more big games we get with Notre Dame involved in it, the better. I'm not trying to be in a position where it's like, well, nobody should play them. So they have to, they're forced to join a conference or whatever. And it's like, that's an idiotic argument. And here's the other part of that. I'm sorry that your school's not. Powerful enough to go independent.

And be able to play a good schedule and get people to schedule them, and that you're not popular enough to fill every stadium that you go to and not popular enough that TV networks beg the schools that they have deals with to schedule you so they can get you on their network.

I'm sorry your school's not that popular. That's not Notre Dame's fault. How many schools in college football do you think could go independent? Five? Ohio State certainly could. Alabama certainly could. I think Georgia could. Michigan could. I think Penn State could. I think theoretically State could. And I think theoretically USC could. I think USC would make a fun independent, like just barnstorm and all around. Like if you threw USC into the situation

that Notre Dame got forced into when fielding Yos Blackball them from the Western Conference which became the big 10. If you threw them into that situation and they had to play all over the country, it would be so much fun because I do think they would be close to popular enough that people would be, would love USC to come to their stadium and fill it up. Would love it.

Yeah. And Penn State was independent as the joint, as the chat points out, I think before joining until 1992. So, um, Texas would certainly make a good one. Yeah, and here's the other thing too. I want to say, um, when and if there's a super league like Notre Dame will be a part of it. And at that point they probably won't be independent anymore. So the, the people who are out there like wishing that Notre Dame gets forced into a conference, it's like, don't worry, buddy,

you're going to get your wish and it's going to, it's going to suck when it happens. So, um, that's, that's my biggest issue with this. And I realize I've said this multiple times this week, but maybe I just need to say it every day. So people figure it out. Half of the things that you guys say you want will create a super league, which you guys say you don't want. So consider cause League, which you guys say you don't want. So consider cause and effect before you say things like Notre Dame should have to join

a conference. Okay. When you say that you're saying you want the Super League. We need objective measures to decide who makes the playoff. Okay. When you say that you're saying you want a Super League. It's not my fault. It's yours. Do you think people do and don't realize it? I think there's some. I think there's some fans of mega name brand programs, and maybe it's not even not realizing it. It's probably what some of them actually want.

Because like you just saw that comment in the in the chat here a few minutes ago someone said Notre Dame could just schedule cupcakes and make the playoff every year and it's like okay. But they don't. They don't want to. They don't. They're not trying to do that. They're trying to beef up their schedule as much as they can. So I hope like we talked about the last time that they figure this out Andy I think it's insane that you wouldn't want to and honestly speaking when somebody says that USC has nothing to gain by playing this game I think that that's that's incredibly wrong I think every opportunity that you have

see looks incredibly soft running away from this game. Incredibly soft. And maybe that's the problem. And maybe it's a general attitude that is the problem at USC period. Like if you're scared of Notre Dame now and you're like, oh, Marcus Freeman's got it rolling there. We don't need to play him every year because they're gonna make us look bad.

That's a you problem. We don't need to play him every year because that they're gonna make us look bad That's a you problem That is a USC problem like if you are that scared and You think they're just gonna beat you every year and that's why you don't want to play It's the same maybe you shouldn't because maybe you don't belong in that echelon of college football. If that's if that's how you actually feel. The thing that that is the it just gets down to the same part of the issue that makes me angry about everybody

who says we don't need to play big games. Is that you go into the competition asking what if we lose when you should be asking what does this do for us when we win? Like I think that that's the way you're supposed to be looking at it. You're not supposed to be looking at it the other way. So also too like I know recruiting is changing and NIL is kind of you know shaping the landscape of the way people accumulate talent now but back when I was young

three years ago the more you could sell about being a premier program and playing on premier stages, the more you could sell about beating good teams and big games, the more you could sell about being a marquee schedule, that was a attractive thing to the highest rate of prospects. So when people ask, what does USC have to gain? Maybe marginally, not that much as it pertains

to like the financial structure of what they're getting in the big 10. You could certainly make the case from a administrative level that Notre Dame needs this game more than USC. I don't even think that that's an argument. I think that's a fact, but what I don't understand is how we're separating, you know, finances and being a football program. Like I think that being a football program is wanting to be the most elite level version of yourself

playing in the biggest games on national television. I know they all are now, but you know the marquee prime time games. You remember last year's USC Notre Dame game, it was awesome. And the thing is if you can beat Notre Dame or you can be 500 against this version of Notre Dame, if you can split those games,

you're gonna be really good in the big 10 too. Like the thing that's like really difficult to me with USC too is like this, we talked about this the other day, but like the crisis of like what USC is and could be, like in my opinion, you know I've been pretty high on Notre Dame the last few years,

but in my opinion, just on the surface, if you just take the coaches away, you take the recent, you know, history away from both of these teams and what they've done, like just on the surface of the conferences they play in, one does and one doesn't, the locations that they exist in and the tradition and all that stuff. What did you think that USC just by and large would just have a normal higher ceiling than Notre Dame does right now? Like maybe that's changing because Marcus Freeman is doing a great job. And they were on the, like, I think that we just get like bogged down by what

happened last year a lot, but like, if you just were blindfolded, but didn't look at the logos and I told you all the things that both of those teams offer a prospective high school player, what didn't you just like blindly pick USC as I told you all the things that both of those teams offer a perspective. High school player. What didn't you just like blindly pick USC as an easier path to greatness? Like, I don't know. Like to me, it's just like, this is Notre Dame shouldn't be scary. Notre Dame should be the team that you are as good at, if not better on an annual, yeah, they're up here.

They're up here, but they're not up here. If you're scared of them, if you're scared. Yeah, they're appear. They're appear, but they're not appear if you're scared of them. If you're scared of them, you're admitting that you're inferior to them. And I don't think USC should ever admit that. I mean, USC just doesn't have the thing that Notre Dame has in terms of limitations, which is an academic. I mean, I know that USC is like a private good school. I'm not saying it's not a good school too. Yeah. But like take away even the academic standards. Let's say it was the same. I don't know what they are. I think Notre Dame is harder to get into, right? It's Notre Dame is harder to stay in because they lack majors that are easy for lack of a better term. But unlike most schools have majors that are fairly easy, Notre Dame's typically are fairly challenging. USD is a really good school though, isn't it?

Yeah. So I'm not. Gerald, Andy talking out his ass, USC isn't scared to continue playing Notre Dame. They just aren't gonna do it on Notre Dame's terms, nor should they. Gerald, if they say they're gonna play you anytime, anywhere, and you don't play them,

it's because you're scared. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings. Like I said, somebody's lying here. Either Notre Dame doesn't really wanna play them, it's because you're scared. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings. Like I said, somebody's lying here. Either Notre Dame doesn't really want to play them any time or USC is just saying, oh, it's got to be in September, even though Notre Dame will play them in September. The question you have to ask is if the head coach says we'll play them anywhere, anytime, any place, the alignment behind the scenes of those suits that make the decisions also have to agree with that. So like Marcus Freeman can say and think whatever he wants. But that's also a big blow up on his face though, because if they really aren't saying that,

and that's what I'm saying, I'm not entirely putting this on USC. I would like to know, does Notre Dame top to bottom actually feel that way. Like if USC says we'll play you Labor Day weekend every year and Notre Dame says no, then it's on Notre Dame. That's Notre Dame's fault if that happens. Yeah, right. So but to put a bow on the point I was going to make is even if you think that there are similar academic schools and USC is very hard to get into, I know state schools in California or the, you or the USC and UCLA are really hard academic institutions.

But Notre Dame also has a limitation on lifestyle and culture too. Like Notre Dame is very much different from a normal college where USC would blend in perfectly with every other college. So I feel like my number one crisis in the sport right now is trying to figure out what USC is and what it could be. I was so adamant so certain that they were going to be a powerhouse on the West Coast when this all came together

with Lincoln Riley and I know that the sport exploded after he arrived. If they were still in the Pac 12, I think they will probably be a little bit more ahead of the of the curve than they are right now. But damn it, if I don't think that they should, you know, with all the tools and all the things they have now, they have been figured out that I do believe they should be a premier program. And that's part of the reason why you see negative comments about it, because it's not it's just not

working right now. And this thing, I think if they recruit the way they're recruiting in the in these this class six together And you keep recruiting like this for a couple years and Lincoln Riley's too expensive to fire So you're gonna have some time. I think they can't turn around but I will say from a Holistic standpoint if you if you actually are running away from games like this because you're scared to play them You'll never get there because you have the wrong attitude. You're not thinking the right way to build to build a winning program.

If you go down the list of power conference teams and you like pick teams that you think could be a powerhouse or should be a powerhouse and aren't, how long do you think that list is? Do you think you can come up with five schools that should be but aren't? Well like Texas was that for a decade and now they are again. It changes quickly. I mean you can change it but like two that pop out in my head all the time and the two are USC and A&M. I don't know if I'm missing anybody but I feel like USC and A&M are punching far below their weight class in

terms of success and in the relation of the equation of success first result. I mean all the factors. Yeah I think that's fair. And Texas would have been on that list and they played their way off that list. I think maybe you can make the case that Tennessee should be better than they've been. But I think they've gotten better, so they've gotten better. I mean, Michigan for 1520 years was right

and now they are weight class and now they're we think yeah they want a national title so I think you get a decade. What's the halo you get when you win a national title? Yeah, probably a decade. A decade Michigan was one of them. I don't know.

I don't know if I'm missing anybody. I think Penn State would you have called Penn State. Yeah, I I don't. I I don't think Penn State is necessarily underachieving now. I think they're where they should be. For the Canes fan out there. Miami. Florida's down right now. But I don't know if like Florida being I think that there's a difference between being down. How long has Florida been down?

10 years? Well, it depends because like the first two Dan Mullen or first three Dan Mullen seasons were double digit win seasons like. Well, I guess the pandemic here wasn't but that they didn't play that many games, but I think double the seasons when Dan Mullen went 10 you you know this better than me you're more familiar with Florida but the the wins that the seasons that Dan Mullen had. Or nothing like what they were the previous five they weren't yeah they weren't national title caliber contending teams in those seasons. So yeah, probably I'd say 15 years then. So Florida State fall into that category? Right now they do. I mean, they're out of the halo, 2013 was the national title.

But they went undefeated two years ago. I don't know if that counts, but- I think that counts. You know, anyway, I think of the poster children for this would be Miami because they've been down for 20 years Texas A&M and USC teams that you know have had good solid years in the meantime, but have never come close to what their programs potential would illustrate to me. close to what their programs potential would illustrate to me. Well, and USC of those is the most recently dominant because Pete Carroll showed you what USC at optimum capacity is. And it's maybe the unsolved mystery episode is, is did Pete Carroll do something that no one can duplicate?

Like did what Pete Carroll did at USC has propped up the program into fooling us into thinking there's something that they're not. I don't know. It's like I say it's like I say all the time with Florida. Like. Yes, Steve Springer and Urban Meyer did it. OK, those are two Hall of Famers. Look at the rest of the history of the program. Nobody else did. It might be it's a harder job than people think. Yeah, I don't know. We went off the rails there, but that was a fun. Unlike I don't like people so mad, but I'm just tired of the USC people making excuses about this. Like you're trying to get out of the series. It's soft.

Play the series. Simple. You realize if you wrote a column, you would you would if you wrote that that column like the thing that you just said that you would like drive everybody insane like the way that I do usually with the USC fans. Yes, everybody else is they there's no one else that thinks that's a radical statement. on a on the back end of like a fan base avalanche. Hmm. There's something last season when I write that pissed everybody off. Happened to me twice since the middle of May. Yeah. Well, we call you called somebody soft in writing.

But I do think running away from a challenging competitive series is soft. It's not really another word to use. I'm just curious because I want you to help walk me through this job. Is it? Hold on, before we do that, if you're watching on Twitter right now, it's time to switch to YouTube. The chat's more fun anyway. fun anyway the chats popping off today as it usually is when we talk about Notre Dame or we complain about somebody running away from a Challenging game on the schedule. We've we've seen that with multiple fan bases here. But yeah time to come to YouTube and Join us

Join the hive subscribe hit the like button. If you dislike us, just tell us in the comments, but hit the like button anyway. All right. What were you saying? All right. Oh, I just want to, I'm just curious because I've actually had this thought. I've had a lot of alone time. My wife was in Paris for the past five years. Yeah, she had a good time. Is it more brutal or more serious or more, I don't know what the word is, more intense to call to write something than it is to say something? Yes, something in writing feels more permanent. Yeah, because sometimes I feel like I write what I say.

No one cares when I say it and then I write it. They go crazy. Mm hmm. That's just how it works. The written word feels more permanent than the spoken word. Now you can say things that piss people off for sure. It doesn't. It doesn't hit the same though, which is why I think I'll never want to give up writing.

Yeah, it's so interesting because I'm fascinated by the dynamics of it. And we're kind of unusual in this space because most people either do a show or they write and they don't do both. Like we do a daily show and we write. And the reactions to similar sentiments. In different media. Are really interesting is i we i've we've done these experiments. I'm convinced that the people. Who watch the show everyday most of them probably are not reading the columns. And the people who read the columns

are not watching the show or listening to the show. So there's some that do both, but most people I think that they had their preferred medium. Like I wanna read this on the toilet or I wanna listen to this while I walk my dog. And that's how they're gonna consume it. It is funny because even tweets hit harder. Oh yeah.

They're easy and they're easily grabbed and shared. And when they come across your, your phone screen in a text, it's all packaged. If we like chat GBT, this put the transcript of the show on the Internet and people read what you just said about USC you would get the same reaction from USC fans that I got from Nebraska Miami fans the last two weeks. Well I didn't call anyone particular at USC soft you called Matt Rulesoft which I think is when you when you say it about a person it also becomes more personal I'm not saying anyone because I don't actually know who's at fault.

At USC. of both like until somebody gives me a definitive breakdown of how that has has worked and I I you know talked about people that I trust I understand how it worked you found out for not going to assign individual blame yet because I don't know the answer to that yeah but if you find when and if you find out who is responsible then you'd be willing to do it. Yes, yes, exactly. Like with Ruhl, he said, you had the quote, so he said it about the Tennessee series, he made that point. And I don't disagree with what he said, but I think that's a sad, you know, sad comment on the state of college football, not. Something you should be saying like, well, the thing that's interesting is.

Enough to open up the wound of the Matt rule thing, but. When I talked to him on the phone, he said that he is at the point in his career. Where he feels like this is going to be his last job and that he can say and do and you know behave in any way that he feels like which must be a liberating feeling for a college coach and what he told me was that that is echoing the sentiments that he had heard in the Big Ten college or the the Big Ten coaches meetings and that he was the mouthpiece for it. So like I 100% believe that Which is I believe him. Yeah, I do. Yeah

So the unfortunate thing about it is is that he was the one that delivered the message and I may have shot the messenger Yeah, that's the one thing that I regret but yeah that is that is actually it's a good segue into what I want to talk about next. Because we have to be careful how we respond when people say interesting things, because we want people to say interesting things. And sometimes our response sort of blunts that and blunts their desire to continue to say interesting things. So let's let's talk Ryan Williams because he went on John Gruden's Barstool show and Gruden asked him what happened in the Vandy game and I thought his response was fantastic. What happened to you guys against Vanderbilt? Man they just they played a better football game than us this game. We came out slow and they capitalized. They held the ball. They had their game plan and they executed.

What do you say to your team when you got Vanderbilt this year coming into Tuscaloosa? Man, going into this game, it's you know, we don't call them revenge games So we're gonna kill an ant with a sledgehammer this year So I mean just every game we you know feel short last year. We definitely got red eyes going into So the we're gonna kill an ant with a sledgehammer and we've got it in our lower third graphic on the screen here now That's the one that got passed around The part where he's like they just beat us fair and square. They straight up beat us. Didn't, didn't make a lot of headlines,

but I love this. And Diego Pavia then responded on his Instagram story. You play, you know, he played a Gucci Mane song and highlighted the lyric. They acted like they tough, but don't want no confrontation. This is great because you know what but don't want no confrontation this is great because you know what i don't have a problem with ever a player saying their their team is going to win a game like we always go crazy when a player predicts a victory in a game like that's awesome this is awesome like we need more of this yeah i think that like too when you say we have to be careful about the way that we react when people say things because we want them to be interesting.

I think that there's a fine line because like if you are Alabama and you are one of the best players in college football and you say we're going to kill an ant with a sledgehammer, there is absolutely nothing offensive about that to me. No. Like, I feel like saying interesting things and saying things that are perceived to be as weak are different. Like, if you say positive, colorful comments about, asserting dominance, that's what sports is. That's the reason why boxing exists, right?

Like that's like the whole. So like the thing about it is like you want to criticize people because people want to read the criticisms of things. But like if you write a column, Ryan Williams used to shut their mouth. They lost last year. Like you're insane. Like, you know what I mean? Like there's like, there's a line there. Tom, talk your stuff, Ryan Williams, and talk your stuff, Diego Pavia. Like this, this is what needs to happen. Like big James James in the chat. This is, this is awesome.

The kids don't listen to Gucci Mane anymore, Diego. He's basically calling Diego Pavia an unc, which is fantastic. Kind of true. I mean, like yesterday, like six years older than Ryan Williams. He definitely is. Definitely is. And also two years in pop culture years is like ten, is like a decade.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Decades maybe. I remember who is it, Lorenzo Carter and who's the other Georgia edge rusher from the 2017 team, like talking about Gucci main lyrics in the locker room. And that's closer to the Acre Pavia's age cohort than Davin Bellamy, that's the other one. Davin Bellamy is the one that said,

humble yourself to Baker Mayfield. So like, I love all of this. The more trash talk, the better. I kind of hope the NIL era and the, you know, the loosening of the program's grips on the players as they express themselves results in more excellent trash talking like this. But he also indirectly said that Alabama got stung

by an ant last year and fell over. So like if they view them as an ant, you also have to wear the loss last year. So like, but to me, if I was very upfront saying like his first, the first part of his answer to John Ruden's question was they just beat us. Like he didn't call it fluke. He didn't, he correctly summarized the game. Like he, you know he just beat them yeah I have I think it's entertaining I have zero issue with either side saying what they said yeah I love this all player do you have any idea how I would behave Andy if

I were I would be insufferable I would be the person that they would hire the SID wouldn't make available. I know and that's the problem like I don't want any of these guys to not be made available I want them to be available to say stuff like this. It is kinda crazy to think though like if you would have thought like at the height of the Nick Saban era that like a Alabama's best player would be talking crap to Vanderbilt you'd be like something went really wrong here. Well and there's your think piece Ari. Alabama's best player would be talking crap to Vanderbilt. You'd be like something went really wrong here.

Well, and there's your think piece, Ari. There's your June 5th think piece. Kailin DeBoer has lost control. Clearly, Alabama has fallen from the ranks of the mighty. No, I ran into it last week with SEC fans who misunderstood what we said on the show 900 times. And I think I'm going to give Alabama a break for a while. Are you getting soft? Maybe, yeah.

I don't know. You can't handle a little criticism? Criticism is one word for it. You got to stop reading the replies. When I get older, my dad and I were in the car and he goes, I love road trips, but let the the the the the the

the the the the the the the the energy for dealing with conflict that goes outside the scope of disagreeing with what I said is waning. I don't have as much patience as I used to dealing with people who are yelling at me about something that I didn't say. Like that. I think that's healthy. I'm glad you're coming to that because that's one thing

you and I have talked about over the years and my wife sat me down a few years ago and basically was like you got to stop this. You got to stop arguing with these random people. Like you remember the cartoon, the meme where the woman is sticking her head through the door and the dad's, the you know guy's at his computer, the husband's at his computer and you can tell she's getting exasperated and wants him to get, leave the room. And he goes, but someone is wrong on the internet. Yeah. Like that was, that was me. And my wife's like, you, you are a terrible person when you're like this. You have to stop. Yeah. Uh, and I can't stop arguing. And the one thing that I will tell you about, about how I feel is if I write a

column, it's not designed to get everybody to listen or everybody to agree with me. It's designed to elicit a reaction. And some people will be like, hell yeah, that's right. And some people will be like, this guy's an asshole and like, that's okay. Um, there it is. and like, that's okay. There it is. But I do feel like whenever I write a column, a hundred percent of the time,

my position I can argue about vehemently. Like there's nobody that can tell me I'm an idiot and then survive a argument with me that they would not feel the brunt of what I feel. What I cannot do is get words put into my mouth and then argue with them about the things that I don't say. And that happens every day now. And it's like, it blows my mind and it bothers me.

Smash the numbers, Ferris Con. I wish I could say, I think you're being a conspiracy theorist, but I think you're probably right. Social media is controlled in large part by AI. Real content like Andy and Ari is becoming more rare. That's right. Do you think that there are times that I am arguing with AI?

Is that actually happening? Yes. Because if that's the case, then I really have no patience. I do actually wonder, do some of the AI companies train their models by creating social media bots. Like that seems like an easy way to train so like if a person. Has like an American flag and one follower and they're like. Talking to you was gonna be an American flag Ari what? What's gonna be an American flag always American flag What? Why's it gotta be an American flag?

It's always an American flag. No, you know what it always is? It's a person in their car wearing sunglasses. Yeah, you know, I feel like the American flag is very prevalent in the one follower hateful people. And I don't know why. I just, I don't, see, I love the American flag. So do I.

Let's bring Betsy Ross into this. OK, I'm telling you the type of profile you come across. I know I know I know I know what you're saying. Like yeah, so if I'm arguing with a robot. Then I'm like truly played myself. Although it does feel like I'm arguing with a robot anyway, because there's nothing that can ever be said to get through to anybody who's doing that to you.

So yeah, I want to argue about my points and I don't want to argue about things I didn't say. That's the, that's the, and I feel like the thing is, people who are then accusing you of saying something you didn't say, if, if you don't know that person or if they're not someone with a, you know, in our business, like with a large falling, if you just ignore it, nothing will happen. So you should just ignore it. And by arguing back, I'm just giving them what they want.

Exactly, because there are people who just wanna get a rise out of other people on the internet. And there's been, you know, not to make this a political, there's been a pretty high uptick in anti-Semitic rhetoric too, that's kind of wearing on me. Right, right. And that's more prevalent now than it's been ever in my career.

Right, it is demonstrably more prevalent. So anyway. Yeah, I get it. And especially that's something that I don't have to deal with when I say something that people disagree with and you do. Yeah, Lotus come up with something else about you. But you know, I feel like we were, you know, they come up with really, they don't have much left. I gotta say this, man, not as fat anymore. Like, I know I like everybody calls me fatty still. And

I'm like, okay, like I got about three more months left and I think that's out the window but the The thing that I will say is I feel truly bad for the people who walk around the world truly believing That like Jews are the problem or that or somebody else is the problem or that anybody else is the problem like Or that or somebody else is the problem. That anybody else is the problem, like that you can't reconcile your own life and that you have to view that it's

someone else's fault, like you are so beyond salvageable as a human being. There's like I actually have pity for you. But yeah, I go wrong. What I tell the kids is judge every single person individually on their own merit. And life will be a lot better period. I just like couldn't imagine blaming somebody else or feeling like my life is not as good because I faceless enemy that's like doing something to bother me in my life. That's it's it's the ultimate loser talk.

It's my life sucks because some unknown unnamed force. Cause it to be that way instead of I'm a loser. And if that unnamed force would just leave me alone, I would be prosperous. That's like the most ridiculous, most irrational thing in the entire world. You're a loser and you're going to be a loser no matter what because you're a loser. Like the only thing that would stop that is you stop being a loser. Yeah, anyway, let's go to the next topic. But that's that's the thing. All right, moving on. The

conference thing. I'm getting sick of it. We have the SEC saying our schedule is so special and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then we have Ryan Day saying the Big Ten earned all those. Okay, okay. We get it. The SEC schedule is hard. The Big Ten schedule is hard. We get it. The SEC schedule's hard. The Big Ten schedule's hard. We get it. And now we've got Joey McGuire from Texas Tech. And he says on SiriusXM,

we've got to take some of the bias out of the conferences. That this is a tougher conference because of this and this and this. Let's fight it out on the field. Great point. We love Joey McGuire here. Like his life advice of always order biscuits and gravy on the menu, if it's on the menu, is great life advice.

I'm going to disagree with Joey McGuire here for one specific reason. River, please put up Texas Tech's schedule. Texas Tech's non-conference schedule this year is Arkansas, Pine Bluff, Kent State, and Oregon State. You don't get to say that if that's your non-conference schedule. Sorry. Schedule better teams. And then we'll talk about that. I always fighting it out on the field.

That's not the written words. Like I can just say it because I love Joey McGuire and I am super excited about tech this year. The people in the conferences that are categorically weaker always say this. Yeah. Yeah. But you can, you can change that perception by going and playing some of those people. And I realize not every SEC team is going to schedule at home and home with you. They don't want to come to Lubbock. Well, guess what?

Bobby Bowden didn't need that. Ari, do you know how many times for state played LSU between 1979 and 1983? For five. And they were all in the 80, 81, 82, 83, all those years. Do you know where all those games were played? On the road. Every one of them was in Baton Rouge. Florida State went four and one, including the win where Bobby Bowden decided,

I'm gonna stay here and build this rather than take the LSU job. Do you think that more teams should be willing to do that? Cause you don't see that very often. If you think that people perceive you as inferior. Then take a check, get on the road and prove you're not. It's very simple.

Because we don't see that I that I went the last time a team did that. Does this anytime anywhere? Boise State would do it to a big time non conference foe where you're only on the road. Yep, Boise State would do it to a big time non-conference foe where you're only on the road yeah Boise State would do it to a point they'd play a neutral side or they'd go they'd go to places most teams wouldn't schedule a return game against them but they would only do it once my thing with

Boise State was when they were playing an eight game Mountain West schedule or an eight game wax schedule schedule for an eight game wax schedule, schedule for those. Like it would be really sick if like Texas Tech was able to schedule Texas or A&M four years in a row on the road. Yeah, I would. How embarrassing would it be for them if you beat them on the road? Right. I feel like if you believe you're that good and you think you think the perception of you is wrong,

then go play. And the thing is, Ari, like, I actually think there's there's schools in the Big 10 that would schedule Texas Tech home at home, like Purdue. And I realize Purdue is not that good. But that's a big 10 school. I'd rather see you scheduled in the Kent State. Minnesota seems willing to play anybody. Well, I mean the thing too is that we do like it's a cute ideological thought of like let's stop comparing and let's settle it on the field. But in order for us to settle it on

the field, we need to have as much context as possible, even if it's not marquee, you know, top 10 versus top 10 games. The more data points that we get of conferences playing conferences gives us a pretty good idea. Like if Purdue and Texas Tech play and Texas Tech beats the crap out of Purdue and then Purdue goes six and six, then you have a pretty good idea that, you know. It's a, it's a very helpful data point at that point. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing, like if you're Texas tech and you're trying to overcome a perception of the big 12 is weaker than the big 10 and the sec, which spoiler alert it is, then schedule

big 12 and sec teams or even ACC teams in the non-conference. And don't schedule any FCS teams. And you say, Oh, that's too hard. Well, tough. Like you're the one trying to overcome the perception. If you don't try to schedule better teams, it's your own fault. Yeah. Try to schedule better teams. It's your own fault

Yeah There's a column in there too, but Joey's nice I Love Joey Matt rules. I understand where he's coming from and all these coaches Want to make their conference schedule sound like the biggest meat grinder humanly possible And they played tough teams like they played Oregon recently. But do it every year. Yeah. And don't and don't have don't say we're gonna have two easy non-conference games schedule three hard ones. Especially if there's gonna AQs in the playoff. Now, the rhetoric I'm hearing lately, Ari, and this seems to change week to week, is that the 5-11 thing may happen for a lot of different reasons. The lots of auto bids being

potentially an antitrust issue chief among them. But if you have the five highest ranked conference champs, the big 12 champs going to be one of those every year. So even if you schedule hard non-conference, you can still win your conference and get in the playoff. If you don't do the automatic qualifiers, why are we going to 16 again? Uh, so that the people who were mad about being left out or happier

because fewer teams get left out. I thought we had to get the 16 to get four and four autos bids, but no, they're going to 16 anyway. Are you know that come on? I know, but it's just like that's the. That's the thing that's annoying. It's like OK, I understand the necessity.

Inventory it's also inventory like. I understood the necessity of going to 16 when you needed four and four for the big 10 and the SEC. But if that goes off the window, you don't need 16. Nobody needs to do anything. I know. But I'm saying from a mathematical standpoint, you would have to go to 16 if you gave four auto bids

to the two major conferences, because that would be the whole playoff otherwise. You could do 14 with one at large. But, and that's what they were talking about for a minute and then they came off that I mean 16 511 is fine with me I think it makes more sense than the other one now the ace the SEC is gonna say well we're not going to nine conference games in that case which I think is also soft Like play nine conference games you make more money like what you're just gonna turn down money from ESPN

Because you're scared of teams in your own league Yeah, a lot of the the playoff expansion expansion discussion has exposed so much softness. It's insane. Yeah. Yeah. Now, River, do we have the graphic from the SOCON from the Southern Conference that they put out yesterday? The Southern Conference.

So this is the league that has like Furman and Wofford and East Tennessee State and Chattanooga there in the FCS. So they're completely out of this college football playoff discussion. They have their own playoff in the FCS. But this was really interesting because they said this not about the stuff we argue about all the time because they're not involved in it. They said this about every sport. Committees should be empowered to make the best decision possible in the interest of a sport and its championship. The possibility that selection decisions and seating could be influenced by the desire to retain committee seats based on success

makes it time to move to metric based only selections and abandoned subjective committee votes that lack transparency. So they're talking about this, not just in football, which in their brand of football, they have a selection committee. So they got to deal with this. But, and it can be a committee about the plumber's association. If people are making decisions and someone doesn't like the decision that they made, even if it's the right one, what do you do? You attack. That's the playbook. Like it doesn't matter what it is. Here's the thing. There is an example that they cited in what they put out. I don't believe any of their schools play hockey, but the NCAA hockey selection committee, essentially, I think it has some power over seeding, but they don't have a lot of power in terms of really subjectively saying who gets in they have this formula that uses the RPI and they have these these comparison points where they just it just compares each team head-to-head down the line and there's an algorithm that does it and That's how they decide who the at-larges are now I would argue it

It probably works better in a smaller pool because NCAA hockey only has 60 teams and 16 of them make the tournament. But I think that's what Greg Sankey and all these people have been talking about. So I don't think you can do it in football is what I'm getting to. The most important in football. Without question is quality wins. And the way that you can get quality wins is by playing a harder schedule. But what people don't want Ari is you Ari Wasserman a person saying what is a quality win? They would like an objective measurement of what makes a

quality win which quality win measurement and the thing that I think I want to get to this is, okay, they, how do we judge a quality win in late November? By using the rankings that are current and up to date, which is the most objective way of deciding what a quality win is. The rankings that are made by people. That's right, but we have enough. It's not objective, that's entirely subjective Andy. If you beat a team that ranks number 14 in the college

football playoff ranking in November, that means that he probably decided that you're missing the whole point here. No, no, I get it, but. I'm not, I don't know. I guess like the problem is it's nice to want this But a sport that only plays 12 games a year Where teams are only playing three or four non-conference games? Doesn't work in this way like in college hockey where they have a system that is more objective,

they play like 34 regular season games. They play like 10 out of conference games. And I'm not familiar with college hockey, but how big of a gap is there between the 28th best team and the fourth best team? It's probably a decent size gap. Yeah. But, but they're also a little bit more homogenous because there's only 60 of them. But the point I wanted to make though is is that even though we got to a point in college football where the most important identifiable metric for your judgment has in turn turned people into discussion about how they can make their schedules weaker and I think that's hilarious. It's awful and you know I had a mailbag question do you think you'll ever they'll ever go back to all non-conference

schedules being all power conference teams and they sent me an example of like you know Purdue's schedule in 1967 and I you could do that with any anybody's schedule in 1967 like they just played do that with anybody's schedule in 1967. They just played power conference teams. They didn't play any lower division teams. And the reason all of that started, it was in the BCS era, because the BCS prioritized being undefeated. And being undefeated is not the way to do it. Like if you if you got teams, like if we're going to make the SEC go to nine conference games, and the big and we're going to bully USC into playing Notre Dame, and you know, everybody's scheduling really good games. We have to accept

that the best team is probably not going to be undefeated. I mean, hey, we've already accepted that in this current model. You and I have accepted that. I don't think the I don't think the average fan has yet. Yeah, I guess. This whole thing is crazy. People are like bringing back the BCS computer. Why so can split out the same exact results as the committee. That's, that's the funny part is if they did that, it would be so similar to what the committee does BCS formula every year that like put side by side, the committee results in the BCS formula and basically it's the same thing every year.

Yeah. People just want the results to be different, but the thing is like, people, if you go to 16, They blame the subjectivity of the process when they don't like the results of the objectivity of the people who do it. Like that's the thing that's so crazy. Well, they also wouldn't like the results if a computer did it.

And then they would say, well, people in it. I think that we're like arguing, this already happened. We had a computer. What did everybody say during the computer times? Yeah. Is the only way that people know how to deal with disappointment is to make up a reason why it didn't work out and not acknowledge why it didn't.

That's it's human nature. Yeah. And I would argue that all of the SEC's complaints are solved by going to 16. The borderline teams that you wanted to get in last year that didn't would get in. So you don't really need to change anything else other than the 16 part. Andy, if you have a, you have a nice F one 50 pickup truck, okay.

And you drive your truck 70,000 miles without changing your oil. And then in the 71,000th mile, it just, boom, your engine explodes. Yeah. Do you blame Ford? No. Ford told me when to get the oil changed. If your team didn't make the playoff last year, it was not good enough. It's got nothing to do with the system or the objectivity or the subjectivity or the metrics. It wasn't good enough. Period. Acknowledge it, accept it and get better. Please, please.

It's like the softest thing in the entire world is to blame everybody but yourself when something goes wrong. I think if you just accept that you're the problem, then you're more likely in the future to not be the problem again. I'm not going to, so quit asking. River, can you clip what Ari just said and send it to me so I can text it to his wife? Listen, I think the reason why I'm good at that is because of my wife. Because you're a wife. I'm always the problem. That's what Bill Burr said in his stand up special. He goes, you know what I love about being married? We're always working on me.

My wife is a complete, perfect, finalized product. We're always working on me. But we are working on me. And you know, I think that we've made some good strides. Did I sue McDonald's when I got fat or did I go on a diet? I'm just saying. Did I sue Coca-Cola for being delicious and having 48 grams of sugar in it? No, I stopped drinking it. It's not Coke's fault. It's mine. That's right. All the things that have gone wrong in my life are my fault. It's not the Jews. It's not the committee. It's not the objective. It's me. Okay. Just if everybody embraced that if you hadn't lost Oklahoma 24 to three, Jesus Christ, it's not that hard.

If you lost to Kentucky at home, it's always somebody else. If I read something that I don't like, that person hates my team. If I wrote a column that wasn't, I don't know, man. I don't know. I'm doing the best that we, we all should just be doing the best that we can to improve. And that's the entire spirit of competition, man. I don't know that there is a single identifiable actual provable metric in the way that we crown our champion.

That is the reason a team didn't win one. Is there? Nope. Is there a national champion walking around somewhere that didn't do all they could in their own power to win that year that got screwed by the system? There's only one I can think of. 2004 Auburn. I would think you if you're a Florida.

2003 USC probably has an argument. Yeah 2003 USC and 2004 Auburn, I think they have beefs, legitimate. Yeah, Florida State, two years ago, is the only one that I can think of that didn't have the... that failed by being perfect. So, yeah, 2000... no, 2004 Auburn was perfect too. 2003 USC did lose to Cal. So 2003 USC, 2004 Auburn, I just mean in the current system, but yes. 23 Florida State. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, and Florida State would not have been screwed in the 12th team system because they would have been in the playoff and they would have had a chance to prove themselves. And whose fault was it that they didn't have a 12 team playoffs? See like, oh, it was the Alliance. That's right. Was the ACC member of the Alliance? Oh, they were. That's right. So there you go. 2004 Auburn got screwed.

Yeah, because they they existed in a system that didn't offer them the opportunity to lose. Yeah, they they beat every team they played. Would they have been USC? I don't know. Probably not, but would have liked to see in the game. Dear Andy, dear Ari tomorrow liked to see in the game Dear Andy dear Ari tomorrow you guys drive the show. We've already got some great questions, but feel free to send us a few more This is gonna be so much fun got Ari fired up. Hopefully he can keep that energy. I Will yesterday we're talking about trying to incorporate Taylor Swift lyrics into the show. I

Mean you you did it perfectly today Hi, it's me. I'm the problem. It's me so perfect At tea time everybody agrees. I'll talk to you tomorrow