Andy & Ari On3 - Notre Dame’s ADVANTAGE in the new College Football Playoff rules

Episode Date: August 8, 2025

Happy Friday! Before you get to your weekend, Andy & Ari answer YOUR questions on today's show. Andy & Ari take a look into Notre Dame and the CFP format, where Arkansas stacks up, how far Virginia Tech has fallen, and many more. (0:00-5:08) Intro: Social Media bracket(5:09-18:12) Notre Dame bye in the new CFP?(18:13-20:23) The Irish in a 4-4-2-2-1-1-1 format(20:24-26:18) Why do UGA fans hate Mike Bobo?(26:19-34:22) Out-Evaluating, a thing of the past?(34:23-45:59) Where things stand for Arkansas(46:00-55:13) What to expect as a Virginia Tech fan(55:14-59:59) Conclusion: shower discipline on our show  Watch us on YouTube! https://youtu.be/2Qq3ztrTpvU Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari WassermanProducer: River Bailey Interested in partnering with the show? Email [e-mail]

Welcome to Andy and Ari on three. Happy Friday. Best day of the week. Your questions will be correctly. I can't promise that. Ari, yours might be correct. I don't know if mine will be correct. We'll do our best. You know, all that matters is that we had fun. Exactly. Exactly. Speaking of fun, we should have results by this. We are recording a little bit early. J.D. Pekyll and I are locked in heated combat in the Caleb Generate College Football Personality Bracket. Caleb is, I don't know who Caleb is. He's a big college football fan. And he created this 24-person college football personality bracket. And Ari J.D. and I are all in it. And Ari, who have you beaten so far?

Um, I didn't have to go through Herb Street. I beat, um, I beat, I beat Joel Klatte. Yeah. You know, uh, I don't know how much I, how much of that I'm, uh, and then you beat Desmond Howard, right? Buying all that, but we'll, we'll take it, you know, because Joel Klatt's really, really good and Desmond Howard on game day, but, um, the people are voting. I, and I beat Matt Liner and Kirk Herb Street. And now I'm, I matched against J.D. Pichel. I believe the, the poll will be, done by the time this video goes live the poll will be done i just hope everybody had fun i don't blame you if you vote for the good-looking ivy leaguer i do the same thing uh three on threeers in the top eight though i'll take it hell yeah hell yeah we're it's sort of like it's sort of like the cc and basketball like and like josh pate's still alive i think and he's semi

cublic too so that's four that's 50% of the top eight personalities in college football on earth or you're looking for or affiliated with on three in some way and also we love cold cubillic and he comes on whenever we ask so he he's he's honorary as well so uh yeah i vote i don't care who you vote for me or jd just vote and then when ari cut arie who do you have next because you don't have urban mire irvin mire got beat urban mire got i got to look at the bracket here so vamp for a second i don't remember who i'm playing right now well i here's a thing if rie wins then it's me against Ari in the in the final four yeah it's gonna be jd or it's jd against sorry it's one of the two of us against Ari yeah i think i'm i'm facing danny canal oh man i was on

danie's show on thursday morning yeah so uh i like my matchup here uh no i actually beat i beat danie canal in the second round i think okay so the third round who's because your side of the has paid your side of the bracket has bray walker away i've got great oh that's tough that's tough okay you know what i was just happy to be in the bracket because you know the thing that is interesting about it isn't necessarily who wins because votes can get skewed and all that it's that the person who made the bracket came up with 24 people and i he thought that i should be one of the 24 and that to me meant the most so we'll see what happens i would love to uh to face you and knock you out you know that would be fun

but yeah well we will face one another if i beat jd and you beat greg mackleroy it's you versus me in the final four to get to the title which is probably going to be pate or kubelich or brandon walker so good collection of people i'm happy to be a part of it yeah that's i'm trying to figure out how i would attack you know any of those guys uh obviously cole and brandon had their they're very clear team allegiances. So like if I had to go against Cole, I would try to engage the Alabama fans to beat the Auburn guy. Brandon Walker,

I would try to engage the Ole Miss fans to beat the Mississippi State guy. I'm just going to, if I ever get matched up with Paid, I'm just going to ask him publicly if he even lifts weights. I'm ready because like you may have to talk trash to Josh Payne next week in the finals. I'm ready. We'll have to do a crossover event with the shows. Yeah. Who loses? I see no downside. I see no downside. All right. We have incredible questions this week. And the first one, Ari, reminded me that we haven't done this show this year. So I think this particular episode can serve as this show. And by this show, I mean the what are the new rules for this year? Because last year I had to do an entire episode. It was before you started it on three. I did an entire hour on here's everything that's different about

college football this season, it's going to be crazy because it was the 12 team playoff. It was the new, you know, Texas and Oklahoma and the SEC, all the new members in the Big 10, the new Big 12 alignment, the new ACC alignment. It's not like that this year. But there are different rules slightly than last year, and we have to delve into the biggest one, the biggest change. So this is one for Chad. Brett B.

Murphy has Notre Dame as his number one seat, but I thought we might still be under the rules where the Irish are not allowed to buy. via Condios from Chad. All right, Chad. Great question, because I do think in the world of college football, which is hard to explain to people who don't pay attention to college football minute by minute. The rules are different now.

Yes, Notre Dame can be the number one seed, can get a buy, and oh my God, will people complain if Notre Dame is a top four seed, are you? Yeah, because in the old system, you gave up, your right to have a buy week in the playoff and people viewed that as a tradeoff for not having to play into a conference championship game. Correct. So now if they go undefeated, they don't have to play a conference championship game. They play one less game than everybody else.

And then in theory, you know, could achieve that. So, yes, people will complain. I didn't get a question. I don't, I didn't, I don't know if you got it too, but it was just like, Can you explain to me why Notre Dame isn't in a conference? And people are so, so obsessed with this still. You know, there's historical reasons, and of course there's financial reasons now. But any time Notre Dame will perceive publicly to be gaining a benefit of some sort,

and it could be a benefit for them because one less game is an important benefit for multiple reasons, not, you know, exposing yourself to the potential of a loss. and, of course, the, you know, tread and wear and tear on your bodies. And then, of course, you know, the competitive advantage. So, and so here's how that would work. So let's say Notre Dame, and it doesn't have to just be the number one seat. This is to be a, if Notre Dame is a top four seed. So, you know, if they're 12 and 0, yeah, they're going to be a top four seat.

But if they're 11 and 1, there's a good chance they're also a top four seed. So their last game this year is against, I believe, Stanford. on Thanksgiving weekend. So, yeah, November 29, they play Stanford at Stanford. That's the Saturday. They wouldn't have to play again until at the earliest December 31st if they were a top four seat. You know, it's funny, though, because didn't Dan Lannin complain about how long of a

layoff his team had? He did. He did, and they actually didn't have that long of a layoff because Oregon played in the Big Ten championship game last year. So this would be an extra week on top of the layoff for another name. So it's not necessarily a great thing, especially if you end up having to play one of those hottest team in the country teams. Yeah. There's two schools of thought with us, really.

It's what's more invaluable, playing with momentum and, you know, everybody loving everybody, you know, going into a game where it feels like a 90s sports movie montage, or would you rather your team get healthy and fresh? And I guess, you know, the only way you know whether or not that was beneficial or hurtful is with hindsight. I don't think that Dan Lanning would have been complaining about the layoff had they performed better or won. Yeah. But like, what do you look at? He certainly wasn't complaining about it after they beat Penn State in the Big Ten title game. I mean, this was been a conversation all the way dating back to the BCS when the Ohio State Michigan game was happening before Thanksgiving. And that was their final game of the year before the national championship game. That was six weeks.

Yeah. Yeah, because Florida, Florida, when Ohio State and Michigan played in 2006, it was the Saturday before Thanksgiving. So Florida still had to play Florida State. Then they had to play Arkansas in the SEC championship game. And if you asked me, I'd say that hurt Ohio State more than it hurt Florida. If you asked me, the fact that Ohio State's offensive tackles got their brains beaten in for four quarters, probably hurt them a little bit more. I don't really know. Jarvis Moss and Stephen Harris and Derek Harvey and Joe Cohen.

But I don't know, like, that's the thing about it. It's like, did the layoff hurt them or did Florida just come in with a speed and athlete level that they hadn't faced that? year and beat the shit out of them like i mean like it just if i don't know that ohio state would have had a chance in that game anyway you shook it but i wouldn't want to have like you think organ lost ohio state this year to throw bone to ohio state fans did organ lose the game this year because they had an extra few weeks of la no they lost because the better team won so wouldn't have matter yeah if anybody who got put in front of that ohio state team on that day was going to get their ass beat and here's the thing

If you want to get wound up about the competitive advantage of playing one fewer game, I think that that's your prerogative. Like, you're more than welcome to do that. I don't think that Notre Dame or anybody else for that matter will win a national title based solely on the system. You might advance further. I think you can make the case that Penn State advanced further in the system as a result of the way that it played out for them last year. But eventually, your reckoning is going to come. And Penn State made it to the semifinals last year, and they lost on the final drive.

of a game in the semifinals and people don't really give a shit right like people are still you know they played a really good team and they lost and they didn't have to play anybody in the it's all the same hits that you're hearing about Penn State going into a season in which I actually think they can win the national title so like a lot of this stuff is you know always about equit equitability right like you want everybody to face the same rules the same challenges and the same paths and unfortunately in our sport that's a hard thing to accomplish in many regards both recruiting and in the actual level of competition. River just showed the actual playoff from last year with the rules that were in place. Can we see the one that would have been,

had it been a straight seating model like now? Okay. So if you remember correctly, Boise State was the third highest ranked conference champ. So they were the three seed. Arizona State was the fourth highest ranked conference champ. So they were the four seed. Had it been seated straight, it would have been Oregon number one, Georgia number two. Texas number three, Penn State number four. Notre Dame would have been number five. So Notre Dame, instead of getting Indiana at home as the seven seed, would have gotten Clemson at home, and it would have been fed into a game against Penn State in the next round. And Oregon, meanwhile, the one seed that ended up having to play the hottest team in the

country, Ohio State in the Rose Bowl, would have gotten the winner of Indiana, Boise State, and then would have, if they won, would have played the winner of Penn State against the Notre Dame Clemson winner. So can I ask something that I haven't ever asked before? Yeah. So if this bracket played out, on the bottom half of the bracket, all the matchups that we got before the national title game would happen anyway organically, right? Like Ohio State.

You got Texas, Ohio State, and Penn State. We don't get Notre Dame, Georgia. But I'm saying, like, eventually the teams that knocked the teams out would have knocked them out anyway in this bracket on the bottom half. But I look at the top half, and the number one beneficiary, in my view of it would be, you know, I mean, Oregon would have had to play Notre Dame and won that game. And I don't know if that's a given. Notre Dame was very good last year. I mean, that would have been to get, that would have been in the semifinals. I would have been to get the championship game.

Let me ask you, this is the question. And I want to ask Oregon fans, too, right in and let us know what you think. If Oregon would have gotten this seating and they would have traversed. reversed the bracket and beaten the winner of the Indiana Boise game and then beaten Penn State again after beating him in the Big Ten title game to get to the national championship game. Ohio State was facing them on the other end of the bracket in the title game and Ohio State beat them the way they beat them in the Orange Bowl on that stage. Would how you felt about last year be any different right now? Ooh, that's a great question. I feel like I would think differently of Oregon had they made a run to the title game because we would have.

had a month of them playing well and seeing them beat people. So Oregon beating Penn State in the regular season doesn't wait, I don't even know if they played last year. I'm just trying to think. They played the

Big Ten championship. That's right. Sorry. I got confused for a second. Yeah. So seeing them beat the team they already beat a week earlier like makes you feel differently about them. They would have had one additional game. Two additional games. They would have had to beat probably, well, they would have to beat the, the winner of Boise State, Indiana. You would have had one additional win that we didn't see already because we already saw them beat

Penn State's what I'm saying. They would have to beat Indiana, Boise, and then do they have to prove themselves again? They might not have played Penn State. They might have played Notre Dame. Yeah, I guess in that case, it would have felt better. But I feel like the way that it ended, it wasn't when it ended, it was how it ended. It was, yeah, it was kind of just going splat after all of this buildup. And the thing about it was we'd kind of forgotten about them.

We'd kind of forgotten about how great of a season they'd had because everybody was so gaga over the first 12-team playoff. And Ohio State had just shredded Tennessee. And it was like, you and I were together in Columbus for the Ohio State Tennessee game. It was, I remember looking at you and just going, uh-oh. We're going to win the national title, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because going into that game, Ohio State could have just flopped after losing to Michigan

and it's gone down the toilet, and you never would have thought twice about it. And if you remember the discourse about the Ohio State Tennessee game going into it, it was that Tennessee had a real shot to win because... 30,000 balls fans in the stadium. That wasn't an exaggeration. They were there.

Yeah. You know, all the graphics of them driving up the highway and all that, like it was cool. And then when Ohio State, like, turned into death, like you saw them turn into death star mode. Yeah. And I was like, yeah. I remember watching Nico drop back and going,

oh, my God. There's literally nothing this dude can do. They're done. They are so cooked. And that's, you just realize, oh, Ohio State's finally figured out how to use all of this talent. It's a time passed to Jeremiah Smith on the first drive, and it was almost like they discovered the arc of the covenant. It was like, it's fire. Peresius handed him fire.

Yeah, it's like, I've made fire. So, I don't know. Like, I, this is a long way of answering that, yes, I think Notre Dame could, in theory, be, you know, in a position to have two fewer games than another team that wins a national title. But also, too, I think that if they're in a position where they're 12 and 0 or 11 and 1, and I wonder if 11 and 1, if the committee will neg them in any way for not playing that extra game. Because last year, the committee showed that playing in your conference championship, everybody who played in a conference championship game was protected, got in, right?

Did anybody not get in? the Iowa State Iowa State didn't get in right but of the three major everybody else got in so if Notre Dame is 11 and 1 and they're faced up against a team

that's 10 and 2 with a second loss or an 11 and 2 with a second loss being in their conference championship game unless it's a team from the Big 12 I think there's a likelihood that Notre Dame would not get the nod and would be behind them in the final rankings anyway yeah I'm fascinated

to see this play out because also we'll see what Notre Dame's schedule is viewed as by the end of the season. I think a lot of it depends on how good is USC, how good is NC State, how good is Boise State, how good is Miami, how good is Texas A&M? The view of the schedule beyond Miami and Texas A&M at this point is it's fairly weak, but we never, you never know. I mean, like Syracuse could be really good again. We'll see how that goes. But my guess is that schedule will not be as respected as some of the Big Ten in SEC schedules. Yeah, I mean, if they're 10 and two against that schedule, they're not sniffing.

They're 10 and two against that schedule. They're maybe struggling to make the playoff. Right. And then they also, and this is the thing that no one ever talks about because society is soft, but by not playing in a conference championship game, they could be sweating on a Saturday

or on a selection Sunday when otherwise an extra quality win in a moment like that could help them get up. Right. They'd probably love to be able to just schedule somebody that day. I wonder if Notre Dame will ever miss the playoff because they're 10 and 2 and don't have enough quality wins.

That's a good question. And then they'll wish they played in the conference championship. Like theoretically, theoretically if you lose to Miami and A&M this year, you may not have the wins. But if you had, if you had 10 in a row, I'm guessing you probably still get in.

You look at the positive for Notre Dame, which is they don't have to play in a conference championship game because they're not in a conference boohoo, but it's like they were never getting into the playoff the way Clemson did last year. They don't have that. No, they can't back in. They have no automatic golden ticket to get in like everyone else.

They have to be a certain standard, and that's difficult. So anyway. One more Notre Dame questions from Ben. We don't spend too much time on it, but I found this interesting. Why are they not in the conference? That's not the question. But Ben is asking about the future, potential future playoff formats. And he goes, quick question on the proposed 4-4-20.

2-2-1-1 format. How would the committee evaluate Notre Dame? I get that they could get an at-large birth, but aren't all their games going to be completely meaningless for their opponents? I can see the argument now. Yes, Notre Dame beat Clemson, but Clemson pulled public at halftime of a tie game to save him for next week's tilt with Boston College

because that's a conference game that actually determines whether Clemson makes the CFP. Yeah, yeah, another reason why the Tony Petiti auto bids thing that nobody really likes outside the Big Ten probably shouldn't pass. The one thing that we have not seen is a team pass on a competitive opportunity yet.

No. In the NFL, they've actually threatened it, like, he wasn't going to do it, but he's like, I could see a coach doing it when we talked to him before the ACC game. Yeah, and I hope that we don't. I also think, too, that the notion of beating Notre Dame is irrelevant

because quality wins matter. Like, they always matter. They always, always, always, always matter. I cannot imagine the second half of that scenario playing out the way that he described it, and I hope for the sake of the health of the sport that it never does. Notre Dame is going to win a lot of games, and they're going to be an incredibly important asset on schedules for a lot of teams regardless of whether or not it counts as a conference win or loss. Right. In my opinion. I would imagine it will always be that way.

And I also don't see the auto bid thing happening because everyone else is against it. And the Big Ten is sort of it. And it sucks. Can we say that? Sure. And the Big Ten has said all we might consider this other thing if the SEC plays nine conference games, which the SEC commissioner wants to do. So we're being logical about this whole thing. It's probably where it's going.

All right. Question from Crawford, who's a Georgia fan. As a Georgia fan, I've always wondered why fellow Bulldogs hate Mike Bobo. so much. That's their offensive coordinator. Former Georgia quarterback, by the way. He's not an offensive genius, but not a duller either. Is this common with other fan bases? I'd say in the SEC, it's more common than anywhere else, although probably like Penn State, they've disliked some offensive coordinators lately. I don't know that Mike yours is. Probably common at Ohio State. There's a lot of coordinator. Yeah, Ohio, but Ohio State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee,

like Florida, Georgia, the mindset's fairly similar at those places. You know what happened? Hmm. Hating on a coach becomes popular. Like it becomes trendy. Well, and also you were afraid, not afraid. You felt bad criticizing players before they got paid. I think now it's a little more fair game.

But I think that it catches fire. Like, you know who Ohio State fans hated for a few seasons? Who's that? Luke Fickle. Oh, yeah, you're right. And then they ended up winning a national title, I believe, after or whatever, and it worked out great for him. But, like, there are certain coordinators that wind up in the crosshairs. And I think part of the reason is it's impossible to criticize Kirby Smart because he's Kirby Smart.

You had a change at coordinator going into last year. It was his first year last year, right? And no, two years ago. Two years ago, but then you had a major personnel shift in the offseason last year. And who do you blame for the lack of personnel necessary to be great on offense? Right. And then on top of that, you can- And Todd Munkin was not exactly the, like, ace recruiter.

He's not the one who brought Brock Bowers and Ladd-Conkie into the fold. Well, Mike Lowe was kind of a retread hire, too, you know, having worked there in the past before. And I think that that- But he was good in the, like, that's the thing. They hated him back then. When Aaron Murray was a quarterback and Mark Rick was the head coach, they hated Mike Bobo then. And those offenses were good. Like statistically, objectively,

objectively speaking, but he already had a target on the back coming into it. Yeah. And then last year they didn't have the personnel to maybe run some of the exciting things that Georgia ran in the past. You know, you lose, I mean,

it's like so crazy to me. But like, Ladman O'Konki and Brock Bowers were awesome in the NFL last year. Like, I don't think that we appreciate. enough how much they lost when they lost those two. Exactly. I think you're right. Now, as far as

that disliking a coordinator goes, like, Georgia's got a history of this. Like, y'all hated Todd Grantham as your D.C. And Grantham then went to Florida, and the Florida fans liked him for a little while, and then they didn't like him. He's, by the way, the new D.C. at Oklahoma State.

So we'll see how the Cowboys fans feel about him. But, like, he was a popular punching bag coordinator. And I think, think it feels like those are more common in the SEC, but you're right. Like Ohio State will turn on a coordinator and a heartbeat.

Ohio State turns on position coaches. They couldn't and Billy Davis when he was their linebacker coach, and that was because he was like best man in Urban Meyer's wedding and their linebackers were terrible. So like Billy Davis was like every week, like if somebody was in the wrong place or whatever, their linebackers

stink. What happened to Andy? And like I have an intimate memory of this because I lived it. And I'm assuming that's common at other places. They didn't, you know, and I don't know. USC really didn't like Alex Grinch for a while. Oh, my God. Alex Grinch might have been the most hated coordinator of the past 10 years.

And Alex Grinch has also been hated by multiple fan bases in a five-year period. Do the Ohio State fans not like it? Yes. They had the worst defense they've ever had under him. Yeah. So, and he's at UCF. Yeah, he's at UCF now. So, yeah, I mean, like, I don't even know that USCD two years ago was the worst organized defense I've ever seen, I think.

They were terrible. Yeah. And so Matt House at LSU had a bad defense, but he wasn't there long enough to become that hated. But yeah, USC Washington two years ago. That my face was melting off. I was like, they can't. And Washington was a very good team. They score on everybody.

But, like, it was like, there was no shot they can stop. them um that said there's always a push and pool between personnel and actual like play calling exes and o's acumen and i think that like in order to be a great coordinator you have to be a great recruiter who brings in enough good players to make you look good it's like what did people want mike bobo to do pull out a flea flicker out of his ass and put up like they didn't have good receivers or good enough receivers last year to meet the standard that's great like they were a pretty good offense last year they weren't terrible it was far cry from what iowa's been. But the standard at Georgia is so high, there's no room for not being number one in

everything. And they just didn't have that. And is it controversial to say they didn't have good enough players to be number one offense last year? Correct. It's correct. And they also had a lot of drops at receiver, which is feeds into good players as well. But Mike Bova is not the receiver's coach. He works with the quarterbacks. So yeah, it just, it feels like they're still yelling run the damn ball bobo at him from 2013 and it's just they've never let it go they make hats of it now they do very popular hats actually run the damn ball i was thinking about getting run the damn ball hat it's a it's a fine if you're an offensive line dude you kind of are like obligated to do that i think i think so you're an offensive yeah yeah because run blocking is

more fun than past blocking it's everyone knows this it's just science All right, Sam and Chicago, listening to the show this offseason, I feel like I've noticed a trend. Lower tier teams, in quotes, Oklahoma State is the one that sticks most in my mind. They used to compete despite low recruiting rankings by finding gyms and developing them have struggled. What are the chances that, as recruiting continues to develop, these gyms are being evaluated better and as a result are getting scooped up by higher tier programs. As Ari knows from all his stocks, it's a lot easier to find an edge in a low information environment. I think, okay, and the subject line of Sam's email was something like, is out evaluating over? Is it impossible to out-evaluate now?

Mike Gundy said to us on our show that he doesn't know what he has on his roster. Does that sound like a thoroughly evaluated roster to you? It does not. It does not. But also, Mike Gundy said, this is the first time they spent money in the transfer portal. I think that's a piece of it, too. I think you can evaluate, but then there are certain guys you just can't get. But now that everybody has some money because of revs share, I think out evaluating maybe back.

I think if the sport had continued the way it went from 2021 to this year, where what you could pay the players was entirely dependent on what you could raise privately, they were, it seems like that were dead noir, had no chance because any time you even had something close to a gym, they were just getting it stolen from you. But it's like when we were talking to Matt Campbell, and I told Matt Campbell,

I'll take you with $12 million over some of these other coaches with $20 million. What did James Blancher from Texas Tech Post the other day, or said, remember we were talking about that? James Blancher, the Texas Tech Player Personnel Director, said he's going to scope out other players that are poorly evaluated and not making a lot of money

and then we'll pay them more. Like you'll outbid the lower tier players that, you know, aren't being... I don't think evaluation's going to get better. Like, there were already tons of people evaluating recruits. Now, there were more people evaluating high school recruits and now they've shifted the duty so you have more people evaluating

current college players for poor. purposes. But I don't think, and actually that number is going to go down. The number of people evaluating is going to go down because you can't spend as much money on them because you have to spend more on players now. So that was a place where you would spend money that you weren't allowed to give to the players. And now that you're allowed to give it to the players, that's a place where you're going to cut back. So I actually think the number of evaluators is going to go down, the quality of evaluation is going to go down. And therefore, you're Matt Campbell's, your Mike Gundy's,

who are good evaluators, are going to take advantage of that, especially now that they have money to retain the people they've hit on in evaluations. Well, the thing with evaluation that is never brought up, but is an essential piece to the whole equation, Andy, is that your acumen as an evaluator is judged, and found successful or, you know, not successful based on how you're doing in relation to your direct peers. So like Oklahoma State still has to evaluate better than Iowa State and Kansas State.

But Oklahoma State. But also has to evaluate better than Oklahoma and Texas A&M in Texas, because what it needs to find is that person that they all missed. But those who could play there. But those teams are no longer competing in their same conference. So, like, the ability to... I'm still recruiting the same schools. Yeah.

Oklahoma State makes its bread. And Kansas State makes its bread by going to the same high schools that Texas and Oklahoma go to, but finding the guy on the bench that they're not watching and getting him. They don't make their bread by being better. Maybe the guy that's playing the wrong position.

because there's a Texas recruit in front of him at the other position. They don't make their bread by beating those teams for players that those teams want. No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying they find the players that those teams miss, that they could play for them had they been evaluated correctly. But Oklahoma State has never been judged based on, you know, how good they are in comparison to other national title contenders. They do it based on the conference that they're in. and their standard of what they have to be. Sam's question is,

is evaluation becoming so sophisticated now that the Oklahoma states and the Iowa states can't compete in terms of, like the evaluations are better so those players that they would get that Texas and Oklahoma would miss, those players aren't available to them anymore because Texas

and Oklahoma don't miss them anymore. Here's the secondary question to that. They still miss them. Here's a secondary question to that. Does the infusion of money into the process meaning your evaluation is going to determine

what you think a player is worth and the investment from the capital standpoint that you need to get from a third party or from your fan base sharpen the need to be right like that's the thing too

like in the past that's a great point that is a great point because yes in the past you'd sign 25 guys if eight of the 25 guys you signed so less than 33% hit rate if eight of them become starters for you, you're doing fantastic.

That's not the case anymore. You know, if you want to buy $1,000 worth of stock because you want to gamble, you might not look at the company's financials as closely as if you want to buy $1,000 worth of stock that's going to like be money that you count on later in life. Yeah. I mean, I think that like if you're going to spend money in order to continue to get the money, you have to show that that's a good investment. You have to RLI.

And I wonder if people are spending an extra 20% on their evaluations per prospect to ensure that their investments are going to a worthy cause. Yeah. Which then makes it harder. I would agree with that. And also, we've talked about this relative to, I keep going back to the safety who was committed to Ohio State, who flipped to North Carolina. You've got to rank your high school sienese based on how much money you're willing to spend on them.

and that's going to require probably a little more granular evaluation than you made when it was okay these 25 are the ones we're taking and if james blanchard from texas tech finds that the person that you ranked number 11 in your class is worth more than 200 grand and he wants to pay him 400 that's his prerogative which then you and you can't because then you'd be paying him more than the number five guy in your class and then it messes up your board yep but then james Blancher can't mess up that 400 grand. So you better be damn sure that the person that you want to outbid from somebody else has actually

worked that investment or the entire tower comes falling down. Yeah, it is complicated. Yeah. But I do think the schools like Oklahoma State, the Gundy, and I don't know, we'll see with Gundy because he was pretty upfront with us when we talked to him a few weeks ago.

I don't know that this era is going to be for him. But I do think Matt Campbell is going to be successful in pretty much any era. But I think Matt Campbell's got a lot better chance of succeeding now in revenue share than he did, had what was going on stayed that way. Right. Right. All right. This is from John.

This is a really interesting question. And John sent this after we talked about it on the show last week and we'd already recorded the mailbag show. So I'm really glad that we're getting. into this one. Not sure why I agree with your Arkansas segment yesterday, which was, you know, last week. Pre-Hue freeze air at Ole Miss around 10 years ago, if you would have asked what is the better program, Ole Miss or Arkansas, the answer was clearly Arkansas. So this is pre-hew freeze, early Bobby Petrino at Arkansas. I don't see any reason Arkansas

can't hire their own Lane Kiffin or Shane Beamer and have every bit of the ceiling that those two programs have, which is that they expect to be competing for a playoff spot. Arkansas has been just as good or better program over the course of your lifetimes than Mississippi State, Kentucky, Vandy, South Carolina, Missouri, and Texas A&M, although Texas S&M clearly has a higher ceiling. John is exactly right. Arkansas has played three times in the SEC championship game. South Carolina has only done it once. Missouri's done it once.

Now obviously Missouri entered the league later. Kentucky's never done it. Mississippi State's done it once Ole Miss has never done. I think more than their coaching staff, I need to go find Darren McFadden again. That would help.

Yeah, Derr McFadden, Felix Jones, and Peyton Hillis on the same team. Same team. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if like my message was that you're hopeless and just give up. No, but what I think, I think John's right in a lot of ways.

Like Arkansas was this. But I also think, there's only so much room for success at that level. And so the fact that Ole Miss is where it is because of Lane Kiffin and Missouri is where it is because of Eli Drinkwitz might be blocking Arkansas right now. Like one of those may have to drop before Arkansas can rise. The question that I take from this is can everybody in the SEC be very, very good and then the rest of the country to tear, right, as a result of it?

Like if, like, the thing is, like, if Arkansas buys into its program at a more serious level than everybody in the Big 12 and everybody in the ACC, there's obviously going to be a glass ceiling. You already do that. There's going to be a glass ceiling of how much you can accomplish in your own conference. But, like, I think that what we were talking about more than anything is that, like, Sam Pittman is being perpetually thrown onto the hot seat for not being Shane Beamer. Right. It's not that they're not accomplishing. By the way, will we get thrown on the hot seat this year if he goes seven and five? Shane Beamer I'm talking about.

Yeah, I think that like what the real issue here isn't, and I'm happy this question was asked because John is right. But the question isn't can Arkansas hire somebody that can take them to the next level. The question is whether or not the things that are happening within the program now and the record that they have from their current coach is the reason he's on the high. seat and the reason he's not on the hot seat is because he isn't a young buff excited dude that's going to help them win 10 games in a random year now the thing that that's interesting is is that like we're really high on south carolina right now and they have lenora sellers and a lot of that you know i i think is happenstance of like where his recruitment went and how they ended up getting him if south carolina goes six and six they are back into the middle of

that blip team in the c like we're riding a pretty big wave of a good year last year and like Them having a good year this year is not going on. I wrote a column about this literally on Thursday. So, you know, I think that Sam Pittman being on the hot seat is more about who he's not than who he is. Yeah, I think you're probably right about that. But I go back to what I was saying. I don't know that a lot of these teams can be good at once. I think it's probably limited.

Like the list that John gave us of Ole Miss, Mississippi State. Kentucky, Vanderbilt, South Carolina, Missouri, Texas, A&M. Probably only about half of those teams can be good at once. Vandy is good for Vandy right now. Like Mississippi State, I think, is in a bad spot where I don't know that Mississippi State can be really good again until Lane Kiffin's not an Ole Miss anymore. Andy, 10 of the teams of the 16 and the SEC have a national championship ceiling. That's like, you have to say it out, like, in the past. That's the part for the, and for the ones that aren't, yeah.

When we had a Power 5 and the PAC 12 still existed, the tent pole programs were more spread out. So like Oklahoma and Texas are the two big 12 national championship ceiling programs in the PAC 12. You remove those from the SEC and it also allows for more room for a Cinderella season because in most years of Arkansas having a dynamic year, like when they had, you know, Ryan Mallet and those guys and they were killing it, they didn't have Texas and Oklahoma on that season schedule that year. like correct you don't have they didn't have to go through those teams they've got to go through everybody now and that makes the prospect of having those cinderella which is what makes what south carolina did so impressive last year yeah i know by the way arkansas plays at memphis and brings in norder dame at home in the non-conference uh yeah and like what if texas was just vanderbilt that would have been an old schedule they would have had to play tennessee and ls u and now if you've got to play texas and lsu and back-to-back weeks well i don't know they had the c c west schedule so those were those were pretty narrowly where you had to play out of Alabama, LSU. And then, and of course, if you get through, if you get through that by chance in the division era, you didn't have Texas waiting for you on the other side. So, I mean, I think I agree with the question, but what do you do? Like, do you try to go make a gimmicky hire to go get somebody who has passion and, like, I mean, like, who do you go get?

And that's the other way. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, look, I say this for every program. You go try to find a Kirby Smart. And you're probably not going to. There aren't many of those. But you go try to find a Kirby Smart or a Marcus Freeman or somebody who can be dynamic and lead your program and elevate your program. That's what you try to do.

It doesn't mean you can. Hey, can we do a tinfoil hat Friday here real quick, too? Yeah. I think I have this theory. And you know, I always go off the rails with the shit, so I'm sorry. But I have this theory that because agents are involved, because NIL is so prevalent, and because we're so concerned with the personnel in a way that, like, we've always been concerned with personnel, but we're obsessed with it now in a way that we haven't before.

Right. In terms of what they're making and what their earning powers are and all that. That the thing that has taken a back seat, and it's funny that we're, I'm going to say this on the same episode that we talked about, Mike Bobo, is that coordinators and up-and-coming coaches are, like, lower down on the totem pole of attention. And I think it's harder for us, me and you and general fans across the country, to pinpoint the star up-and-coming coaches that used to be all over the place. I think that there's a reason why it's harder to find, like when Nick Sabin and, you know, was retiring to find a board of 10 people that could take that job. And maybe that's a bad example because Alabama's its own animal.

It's such a hard job, yeah. If Arkansas were to fire Sam Pittman today, like your hot board would not be filled with names. Well, like it would start with Rat Lashley because that's home for him. But then you would say, is SMU a better job than Arkansas at this point? Because they'll pay you a bunch of money and you could actually win your league. I think between NIL agents, head coaching salaries, buyouts and NIL deals, it's harder to pay attention to the other part of the sport, which is people who have been working in positions who have done a good job at places aren't as big as stars as they used to be so nothing feels like

a home run anymore and i used to and i do think too that like there have been a lot of coaches like when lane kiffin got hired at o' miss like lane kiffin's name reverberated like he could recruit to that that was a move that felt like you know like the the fickle to wisconsin-ish type hires just aren't there anymore we'll see i i thought i i i wrote a story on court coordinators who could be head coaches this time next year, I add on three. So you can read that now. And how many of the names on that list, Andy, are like big time moves in fans' minds? That's the question.

Like, what do you, like, what do you think if Buster Faulkner got hired as your team's head coach? I don't think 95% of people who listen to know who that is. I'll tell you who that is. Yeah. Okay. Or Will Stein or Andy Codellnicki or Mike Shanahan. Who's the most recognizable name on that list? Codalnicki?

Colin Klein because he was a Heisman trophy finalist Kotal Nicky because he's reviving an offense that has a potential

first round graphic at a quarterback I don't know Glenn Schumann because he's George's D.C. Will sign because he's Oregon's O.C.

So Colanicki probably. A USC fan knows who Glenn Schumann is? Probably not. And if Glenn Schumann got hired at Arkansas that would be a great move

I would love that for them would they be excited about it? I don't know. I'm not making producer Rivers, sad. I got Tim Banks on that list. I got Tennessee's D.C. on that list. I hate to see it. That dude does a good job.

But yeah, and then I've got a list of group of five coaches. That's going to come out next week. And yeah, it's not necessarily like before, like when Urban Meyer was the coach at Utah, which was a group of five or group of whatever. I don't even remember how many conferences were in the group at that point. but it was a mountain west school everybody knew that urban mire was the guy next even before the florida and notre dame jobs opened and they started fighting over here yeah the the who's next

category is a much shallower bucket that doesn't mean they don't exist it means that the fanfare that comes with the hire isn't there and then the boon and the wave of talent accumulation momentum is gone which makes it harder to build a program like arkansas right I don't think that Elaine Kiffin is like falling out of the sky, you know? Well, and Lane Kiffin is one of those people who just moves the needle in a way that we don't always understand why. Like anything Lane Kiffin does moves the needle and that's kind of unusual. You know what? One converse thought to me to what I said.

I think Fran Brown could have been on your lists and nobody would have known who Fran Brown was. 100% everybody knew Fran Brown was because Fran Brown is fan Fran Brown. I'm telling you right now if Fran Brown against this gnarly ass schedule that Syracuse has to play this year, if he went seven or more games, if I'm an AD

he's at the top of my list. If Fran Brown got hired by Arkansas you'd be like, oh shit. I would definitely be, I would say that. If Fran Brown got hired by Maryland got hired by Auburn. Oh, Maryland would be good. Yeah, all of those. I'd be like

oh shit, because look at what he did in one year one at Syracuse. But yeah, that's, well, actually, while we're on this subject, let's go down to Patrick's question, because we asked Virginia Tech fans to write in and let us know how they felt. Patrick was one of those loyal Hokies who did. So I thought you're assessing where Hokie fans stand was spot on. We know we're unlikely to return to the near annual BCS level now playoff appearances, but eight and four, nine, and three seasons with occasional playoff contention is still realistic and should be the expectation.

Brent Pryor hired two first-time coordinators and Whit Babcock, the AD, let it happen. Prize refusal to risk injury reports doesn't protect the team. It just fuels speculation and fan frustration. On the field, we've seen head scratchers calling timeout before a blocked 58-yard field goal only to let Liberty gain five yards and kick the winner.

That was a terrible one. Multiple losses to Old Dominion, duplicate jersey numbers on special teams. I hear the Florida fans nodding in agreement and consistently losing one-score games due to poor adjustments. We haven't beaten a Power 5 non-conference opponent since West Virginia in 2017. Simply put, and you're going to love this, Ari.

I do. We're tired of the grab ass and believe the current state of the program is unacceptable. Apathy said under Justin Fuente and the vibes haven't improved much under Pry. Yeah. I think that like 80% of college football has those expectations. Eight and three, nine and three, eight and four with occasional contention for high. I actually think that's realistic at Virginia Tech. I think that's realistic for just about every

I think that could be realistic for Arizona I think that that is the most rational expectation of your team and I think that we're also like so clouded by the irrational expectations and results that we've gotten from the team the country's best that we've lost sight that that's probably 90% of the teams

and my biggest issue with college football today and I whittled my way or weasled, I think I was the word I was looking for, my way becoming a national reporter by being

fixated on recruiting. And by being fixated on recruiting, it was so fascinating or it used to be of like, and I think this might kind of preview a show that we're going to work on in the future, which is looking at team identities. Yeah. But like you used

to be able to map out if Virginia Tech hires a coach, he has to do A, B, C, and D to be successful. These are the areas he needs to recruit. Here's how he needs to make these regions he needs to own. I mean, like, if you go look at like what Jed Fish did at Arizona, he brought Rob Gruncowski back.

They got hammered at the spring game. You know, he recruited certain areas harder than they had before. Like Bejohn Robinson was a player that didn't even bother recruiting before, you know. He was from Tucson. Yeah. And he lived 2.3 miles away from the stadium. and, you know, like, they fixed the things that were right in front of their faces, right? Yeah.

Like, I don't know if there's places like Virginia Tech. It's like we talked about this when we talked about them the first time. If it's not Brent Pry, the next coach who comes, does everybody have the same plan, try to over-evaluate and be better in the portal and hope for the best? like nobody either like building a program isn't of a renovation of a home anymore it's knocking it down and rebuilding it really fast and everybody rebuilds it with the same materials and i think that that's like harder to me than like trying to grab a program and and like latch on to the things that it's prideful of weaponize those things that it's prideful of try to gain steam in your backyard try to get players that are going to stay in your program for two or three years and by year three or four be awesome like the expectation at virginia Virginia Tech now is fire the coach, flip the roster, and go try to win the ACC by year or two. And if not, you're freaking fired. Like, and I think that's like a very hard thing to navigate.

And not just Virginia Tech, that's everywhere. And it's hard for fans. It's hard on fans. Like, that's unfair to them. I don't know if that's where. There's no fabric anymore. There's no, like, clear an identifiable plan to follow. And there's no possible way.

Unless Billy Napier works at Florida, because that's what he's tried to do. yeah i mean i also might get him fired it's the thing that's going to fix them this year if they did really well in the portal florida they had to add more talent to their team when they were inactive last year they have a true freshman from a high school ranks their quarterbacks from the high school ranks i see what you're saying yeah what did what did and i'm all their best linemen i'm ignorant to florida in this regard yeah but did billy napier connect with with the pride of Gator lore in a way that previous coaching regimes didn't in order to make them, like, sympathetic.

No, his thing was he tried to go after recruits that Alabama and Georgia also wanted. Yeah. And got some of them. And that's important. And that was not going on before. And that was a big deal. But also, too, and I have to look this up. But Florida did really well in the state of Florida as well, right?

Correct. They got a bunch of blue-chip in the state, yeah. Much better in state. Florida is a good example of that. But, yeah, he's the one who's doing it the old-school way. And again, it may work or he may get fired. But I also think a terrible example, because Florida is already a program that's one national championships in the recent past

and has a logo that people know. I'm talking about the middle-tier teams. Florida has been had middle-tier results. It's never been a middle-tier program. I'm talking like if you throw up some logos from the ACC in here I'm like what like are you talking about NC State

so that that level Georgia Tech yeah cow but look what Brent Key's doing in Georgia Tech they had to go find out yeah Brent Key's showing you it can work at Georgia Tech I think Jeff Rahm is going to work at Louisville

and what are they all doing they're getting Well, Brent Key started out recruiting the best players in Georgia. I guess the point I'm trying to make is, is the plan at Virginia Tech any different than Georgia Tech? Is the plan at Virginia Tech any different than it is at Syracuse? Is it different than it? Because all these jobs used to be, like, we used to rank jobs. Yeah, it's different.

It's different at Syracuse than at Syracuse because Fran Brown has a different plan than clearly Brent Pry had. The question is, do you get, yeah, we do need to. do you get somebody who has Fran Brown's plan if you fire Brent Pry? I don't even know as somebody who talks about college football every day with you and spends my entire life thinking and writing and consuming it, if I could tell you in a concise and clear manner right now the difference between what Fran Brown's doing and what Virginia Tech would attempt to do.

I don't think there's a difference. I think you would hire someone who you would hope would be able to flip the roster like Fran Brown did. Fran Brown tapped at all his recruiting connections in New Jersey to get players who might come to Syracuse and join him. And that's what he did. And it worked. Yeah.

Maybe the separation of geographical importance and, you know, fiber of your program just don't mean what it did in 2017, which is, it's not so much like you got to have this person who can recruit this area. Colorado goes out on standards. It's like, does anybody? do you have any thought whatsoever on how many high school good players are in the state of Colorado? Like it doesn't, there's no, and that's, again, extreme example, I know, but like, we used to

rank jobs based on, you know, we ranked jobs we did it this off season, like the number one thing on that list was where are they located, you know, like that, you know, and I don't know if you have to be, do you have to be successful in your own backyard from a high school recruiting standpoint to be good anymore? I don't know. The answer to that question is yes, which is an insane shift in the, paradigm how we even break down jobs and what coaches should do when they take those jobs, which is a good preview for what we're going to talk about at some point, hopefully next week.

That's right. We were going to talk about sometime in the next couple weeks, we're going to talk about program identities, the ones that know what their identity is and the ones that need to figure it out, and maybe what those identities should be. So if you have suggestions for your own program and what you think their identity should be, hit us up. Andy Stapleson3 at gmail.com, Ari.wasterman, at on3.com. and let us know, like, hey, I'm a fan of Virginia Tech. Here's what we should be. I'm a fan of Maryland.

Here's what we should be. I'm a Tennessee fan. Here's what we should be. I'd love to know. I would love to know what you think the plan should be, too. What's the plan? We talked about plans on Thursday show. Let's talk about plans again.

Like, what is the blueprint? I think the Florida blueprint's pretty straightforward, Andy. It's the one that used to work. And juries out on whether it works now. And we're going to, this year will be. it'll tell us a lot all right last question stephen san antonio gentlemen not a question just wanted to say i was horrified by your lack of shower discipline for your lower body legs calves etc it's troubling cheers steven san antonio uh do you soak your clip in the shower

steve and san antonio like do you bend over play the clip river staff infection so we did a clinic yesterday on proper shower technique and soap and using a rag. We put some new rags in. Y'all think I'm kidding. All right? I'm serious. Yeah, it's, I mean, you know, we had, I told them, we had the worst shower discipline of any team I've ever been around. And so we talked a little bit about, you know, application of soap to the rag and making sure you hit all your body you know you can neglect it trying to cut corners and it it shows and how you practice and elsewhere so i'm hoping we show some improvement in that that is former tennessee coach derrick dully who wants put 13 men on the field and lost ls ui he wants to be

the junior senator from georgia yeah ari i just look my legs are fine the water running down my legs is a man is supposed to bend over in the shower with alufa and scrub their shins and calves. I will say when I have done, been doing yard work and have dirt all over my shins and calves, I do reach down, soap everything up, make sure I get all dirt off.

But not in a normal, not in a normal shower. I'm just letting that soap run down. I think dirt off. 99.9% of the time you take a shower, you don't have dirt on you. In a normal shower, do you bend over and scrub your feet and calves?

No, trickle down economics, baby. Yeah. Let the soap trickle down. Yeah, you know, and good for you if you do. I do get my arms because my arms are closer and it doesn't involve any, you know, bending over. Effort. I mean, you couldn't get one of those cool loophas that has like a, you know, have you seen those loophas that are on the edge of a stick and you can kind of just scrub without bending over?

Oh, yeah. Reminds me the Simpsons. I wash myself with a rag on a stick. Yeah. Somebody got mad at me because I flexed on my old bathroom. Do you remember the old house, the bathroom was sick? But the one thing that my shower does have, and a lot of people. have this. I don't know if you do, is I have a, what is it called? Fosset. I have a faucet.

Showerhead. Showerhead. That hits your face. But on the side of the walls, I have little holes that shoot water at you. Jets. I've got jet. Yeah, you fancy. I have water hitting me in all different directions when I'm showering. And we have a little wand that you can used to spray more your nether your nether regions yes you need to and that feels very good when combined with tea tree on certain per areas of the body so there you have it stevie in san antonio you need a boozy shower like ari's and then you don't have to reach down and sell up your it's not that you don't have to be that bougie they do sell like attachments that go onto the main faucet that go down towards you where you can have it shooting at you it's not like you need to have it in you know you there's attachments it's not that

that expensive. You can do it if it's important to you. Also, too, you live in Florida, so you must be very familiar with swamp ass. Do you guys have that? Yeah. There's nothing better than when you have that ailment to having warm or cold, depending on the mood that you're in water, spraying aggressively on the crevices that are impacted by the swamp ass. No? Oh, no. I agree completely. I just have nothing more to say. We send people into the weekend, Ari. If you have swamp ass and the only mode of water getting into the crevices that are affected by this is coming from the faucet at the top, that it has to travel down your entire length of your body to get to that area. And I don't feel like you need to use recycled water on an area that's in because there's nothing that needs to be addressed more in a shower, period, than correcting swamp ass, right?

Like that's the number one priority in the summer. The first thing I do when I get into the shower in the summer when I have that ailment is spray my ass. That's the first thing, even before my head, in my, have a good weekend. I don't know what to die. May the water run down all of your cracks and crevices and may the tea tree, shampoo, hits you in all the right places and tingle in all the right places. We'll talk to you on Monday.