Andy & Ari On3 - Our BEST and WORST takes of the 2024 college football season

Episode Date: February 21, 2025

When it comes to making the best hamburgers around the basics matter and Wendy’s?... well they’ve really got those burger basics on lock and boy does it show. So what’s the secret to all those hot and juicy hamburgers? Simple. Wendy’s always crafts their hamburgers with that fresh, never frozen beef they’re famous for. The result? Hot and juicy beefy hamburger perfection - every time. No matter which hamburger you order from the Wendy’s menu, you already know that thanks to those Wendy’s burger basics, it’s gonna be exactly what you were craving. Fresh beef available in the contiguous U.S., Alaska and Canada; not available in Hawaii. Busy mornings, late nights, working through lunch—life doesn’t always leave room for a complete, balanced meal. That’s where Huel comes in. This podcast is sponsored by Huel, spelled H-U-E-L, The World’s #1 Complete Nutrition Brand. It’s a complete meal in seconds—just grab, sip, and go. No more skipped meals or unfulfilling snacks. Huel makes it easy with nutrition that fits into your life. And right now, you can try it for FIFTEEN PERCENT off with the code STAPLES15 at HUEL.com. Fuel up the easy way with Huel today! huel.com/STAPLES15 (0:00-1:02) Wendy's(1:03-5:54) Introduction with Ralph(5:55-7:07) Reviewing the 2024 Season(7:08-19:34) Did we talk too much Arch?(19:35-26:31) Ari's ID of Notre Dame(26:32-31:31) Notre Dame in 2025(31:32-33:04) Huel(33:05-50:31) 12-Team CFP Discussions(50:32-56:07) Summary with Ralph(56:08-57:25) Conclusion; See you Monday! It's time for our year-in review with our honorable ombudsman from the Athletic, Ralph Russo. As Ralph is a frequent listener of the show, Andy & Ari sit down with him to give a fair review of our 2024 College Football Season. Did we talk about Arch Manning too much? How impressive was it for Ari to stick with Notre Dame from the beginning? Did the 12-team playoff work? Let us know your thoughts on our 2024 season in the chat! Is Ralph right? Watch us on YouTube instead! https://youtube.com/live/Un4qocvNtUM Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari WassermanProducer: River Bailey

When it comes to making the best burgers around the basics matter in Wendy's, well, you really got those burger basics on lock and boy does it show. What's the secret to all those hot and juicy burgers? Simple, Wendy's always crafts their burgers with that fresh, never frozen beef that they're famous for. The result, hot and juicy hamburger perfection every time.

No matter whether you're ordering the Baconator, the Dave's Single, any burger from Wendy's Menu, you already know that thanks to those Wendy's Burger Basics, it's gonna be exactly what you were craving. Fresh beef available in the contiguous US, Alaska and Canada, not available in Hawaii. Get yourself a fresh Wendy's Burger today. And our freshest move this week,

our Wendy's fresh move of the week, I'm naming Ralph Russo the ombudsman for Andy and Ariane 3. And he's gonna tell us exactly what we got right and what we got wrong in our first season back together. Welcome to Andy and Ariane 3. We are honored to be joined by a guy who just showed up randomly at my door, Ralph Russo at the end of the Atlantic. Not random, but it was pretty interesting. I was like, Hey, can you come on the show?

He's like, well, I might actually be in your town in a few days. I don't live in Florida. So it's very rare that I have, happened in Gainesville, but yes, you know, I actually want people to think that I just happened to be roaming around and decided to come and like found Andy's house. I didn't even know where you live. Yeah, you just found the-

Just wander, you look for the grill smoke and you're like, there it is, we found it. Yeah, I found that the Staples Estate is lovely. It's the first time I've been here. It's great to see you in person. But yes, this was very, very fortuitous. I happened to be in your great state and happened to be visiting some folks in Gainesville.

So this worked out wonderfully. Well, so I have decided to bestow an honor upon Ralph as one of, I think Ralph might be my favorite listener of the show, along with being a colleague and a great sports writer who covers college football. But I've decided to make Ralph the official Andy and Ari On3 ombudsman. And so before we do that, we have to explain to Ari what an ombudsman is. Yes. Yeah. And not just me. Don't make me feel stupid. There's a lot of people who are listening to the show that have never heard that word.

There are people in the audience that it is a pretty unfamiliar word if you're not a regular New York times reader. I'm sorry. Well, no, and listen, it's kind of an old word, right? An old word from a, from a time way in the past when their newspapers were a big deal, right? Uh, there was a whole bunch of your, your listening audio or your followers here who, you know, newspaper is a newspaper where an ombudsman is the quality, think of it as quality control.

In-house quality control. The person who makes sure within the house that you're getting facts right. You're presenting your arguments well. That you're making sure that you're, you know, you're upholding the standards of the organization. And I think On3 has some high standards.

So we've got to make sure that this show upholds those standards. Mostly you, Ari, really mostly you. Do you think that I'm the stupidest person that's ever been published in that newspaper? I mean, that you'd be probably like, I would think, let's put it this way. The simple fact that you threw that out makes me think that you're probably in the running, but probably not.

I don't think. Yeah. This is like, when I asked him in Florida's walk on program, was I the worst walk on in program history? And his response was, I have to think about it, but I think there were some kickers who are worse than you. Right. But the simple fact that I got to think about it, I think is all it needs to be said, right? I couldn't give you a definitive no. If you came into my house, like my entire office

is like covered with New York Times front page stories that I wrote over the time that we were there. What sort of megalomaniac narcissist would put covers of publications that they used to write for up in their office. It's mine. As we as we said, Ralph is looking at one of my SI covers that I have blown up to like five feet. I don't know like the Alabama press conf press box in Tuscaloosa, Bryant Denny. There's like a walkway behind the seating area that has these SI covers over the years that are like blown up, but also have like a backlight to them. Like they're like beautiful. They look beautiful. And like we were walking by them when Andy and I first started podcasting together at the athletic and like half of them, or if not more, were by Andy. I'm like, why is this not in your house?

Like I would like do that. I would spend how much money it should be. Yeah, one of the used to be three of those in here, but I don't work for the home with a long walkway where it takes like, you know, 10 feet to get from the front door to the living room and just line the foyer with it. See, I know what that will throw you. I'll throw you I'll throw you one thing Ari about the the times aspect of things. So I've been doing this job for a long time. Previously for the Associated

Press, my sister for the first time understands what I do, because she can open the New York Times and see a story of mine. So for the first time in my life, my sister understands what I do for a living. But there's definitely been your stories in the New York Times. That's what the AP is. It's in every newspaper in America, isn't it? But not in the New York Times. That's what the AP is. It's in every newspaper in America, isn't it? But not in the New York Times because they had their own people.

Yes, but not in the New York Times, the one in paper that impresses. He was in the, he was in the Peoria Journal Star, but that's different. My sister who lives in Long Island is not getting those papers, but she does get the New York Times and now she's impressed by me after 30 years doing the. I was thinking that she missed all those stories from Jackson, Mississippi, when you were the AP correspondent down there. Yeah, she's not a big college football fan to start. So there's also a little bit of that going on.

Well, you are Ralph. And I love when I get a text from you two days after a show arguing with me in real time about something Ari has said on the show. And I'm like, wait a second, who said that? When did we say that? Oh, that was Ari. So I have assigned Ralph to review our first college football season back together, Ari.

And he is going to break down what we got right, what we got wrong, what we got wrong. And we can hash it out a little bit here. So Ralph, I think you mentioned a few things. I would like to start, not because if we put his name in the title, everybody's gonna click on it, but maybe a little bit of that.

Our Arch Manning discussion that we held pretty much from the middle of the year on through the playoff, which is incredible considering he never started a game. He did start two games. He started to. He never. Yes, that's good point. Correct correction on the ombudsman. The ombudsman has to make a correct. You're fired. I'm the ombudsman now. I'm the captain now. Look at me. Now that you know what an ombudsman is, you can be an ombudsman. So, the arch-manning discussion I found to be among the more interesting and at times frustrating discussions I would hear from the two of you. And Ari, I want you to understand. I am not here to just constantly gang up on you.

That's okay if you are. That's gonna happen. you to understand, I am not here to just constantly gang up on you. That's okay if you are. That's going to happen, but I'm not, but I'm not necessarily trying to just make it a gang up on Ari show. Listen, Ralph, this has been our entire history. Like I think people know what they're getting when we and you interact. It's a, you, like you don't have to, it shouldn't be just our show. It should just be all the takes that I've had that made you angry. But actually I feel like I'm improving.

Like I feel like I've improved. He's got a couple that he liked though. I had a couple that made me just wanna hug you. There was a couple, at least one that made me wanna hug you. But not the Arch Manning one. The Arch Manning take and the back and forth between you and Andy on Arch Manning just would rattle through my brain

and at times make my head hurt. Because essentially what Ari ended up arguing for much of the year was you can't play Arch because it'll make the internet mad. Right? Like you can't play arch because then you might have to answer a question about arch as opposed to Andy's take was I have the best backup quarterback in the country.

If I have to play him, I'm going to play. But if I thought he was better than my starter, I would play him. I would actually play him, right? So it's okay to sort of go back and forth with the idea of, hey, maybe Arch should play more. But often I felt like Ari's position was, well, once you play Arch, you're opening up a hornet's nest

and now you're gonna have to answer, is Arch gonna play? Which is good podcast fodder, but it can never be the way you coach your team. You have a good player, if you feel like he is going to help you win a game, you use him in the spots to help you win a game. And frankly, if you don't think he can be useful

in winning that game, then you don't play it because you already have a good quarterback. So I just felt like Ari like Often throughout the Arch Manning discussion you you you were sort of talking like a podcaster as if that was relevant to Steve Sarkeesian as if Steve Sarkeesian should take into account what the podcasters You know what the funniest thing about this is They should have played him at the end of the year more and didn't. Like that's the funniest thing.

Like I feel like at the end of the year had they designed a package for him. If what you're saying about, you know, playing the best player and the best backup and putting him in a position where he thought he can help you win a game. I think there were certain instances both in the SEC championship game and in the Ohio State game that maybe a different look might've opened something up and gotten them an extra score that might've helped them advance in the playoff. But like, that's the thing that you're missing a piece of context about this conversation

that is really important to the way that that conversation started, which was Andy spent the entire first half of the season before the Georgia game, talking about how brilliantly Steve Sarkeesian has handled the pressure and the difficulty of having a player like Arch Manning on the bench. So when he just threw him into the game, when they were down 20-0 to Georgia in the first meeting. Because Quinn Ubers was not playing well. Because Quinn Ubers wasn't playing well. and the job is to win, my only point was you can no longer say that he handled it masterfully when

he did the like one thing that you can't do to continue to keep things at bay. That was not the one thing you can't do when your job is to win the game and your quarterback that you have in there is not helping you in the game. You try another quarterback. Now in that particular case, the other quarterback didn't help you win the game either. So they went back to the first. Yeah. Yeah. So like the thing is, is that like, I actually feel like I, I got towards the end of the year and got to a point in watching Texas's offense,

especially when you and I were together in Nashville, Andy watching it, the sec title game on TV that like Texas's offenses needed something like they needed something to spark them. And because he threw arch manning into the game against Georgia in the first matchup and he had a multiple game run of starting as a result of Quinn, you were's injury. I was led to believe and he also had that package for him in the A&M game that led to a touchdown. Maybe even yours was hurt. He had a bum ankle that but I got to a point where I was like, well, maybe they need him now.

And it's like at a point in which I felt like they could have used him. He was he was confusingly absent. So like that like the whole way they used him all year was kind of bizarre to me. So I think you're confusing two things though. Like you can make an argument that Texas could have been better off late in the year, maybe in the sec championship game, maybe in the Ohio state game, maybe, maybe not, you know, I'll say, look, because I'm going to kind of defend Ari on this a little bit here.

If arch comes out blazing next year, there will be some real litigation of how the end of last season was handled. I guess. I was gonna ask how you guys think this is gonna age if he turns out to be a superstar too. But that's proving, you're trying to disprove negative there. Oh, he should have played last year.

Would he have been as good this year? I already think that. Let the record show that I already think he should have played more at the end of the year. That's fine. And you may end up being ultimately correct on that. And if you are, I will not argue with that. But I don't know how you are proved correct.

Like, if Arch is awesome starting next season, I don't know if that necessarily is proof that Arch would have been good if they just insert he was good enough to come into the game down 20 nothing against Georgia. Well, because they need because when yours wasn't good enough at that moment. So like you know, I know what I'm saying. If you think that you're back and if our ball out there

when you are to have played the rest of the year. That's that's the part you're not thinking about. If Arch had led them back or some made them even somewhat competitive. We might not have seen Quinn again. Yeah, but I feel like the discussion isn't whether or not he should have played him and. And whether or not like that

would create chaos, I think the question like I think those are two separate things like I thought it would create chaos and they handled it differently, but that doesn't mean that Steve Sarkeesian makes coaching decisions based on that. Right? Like did I say that? Maybe I did. I don't know. I don't remember saying that. It's not what you said and the reasoning you gave for it is not something that would ever cross a coach's mind mid game when he's trying to give his team a spark. Oh, okay. Yeah, I know. I think I agree with that.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like the idea that like, like Sarkeesian played it fine. I have a great backup quarterback and when I need to use that backup quarterback, I'm going to use him even if it's down 21-0 when I'm, when I'm, my guy is hurt and needs a spark. And again, like when you were, when you guys remember when you were after that game?

What do you mean by that? The way his body language was like in the locker room was like his dog- You mean he was stabbed? Yeah, like I'm not- Yeah. Yeah, I'm not down with that body language in the locker room.

Like most people are stabbing others. Yeah, we're all big boys here. We're all getting paid, especially those guys. They're really getting paid. Yeah. I mean, it's okay. It's okay to be sad sometimes. Yeah.

You lost. You didn't play well. It's okay. We're going to try somebody else. We're not here to worry about Quinn's feelings. It ain't show business. It ain't show feeling or it ain't show family. It ain't show feelings.

It's show business, it ain't show feeling, or it ain't show family, it ain't show feelings, it's show business. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I thought that Sark handled that just fine in general. And I thought that you got a little bogged down with some of the body language and what does this mean going forward? And now you've created, um, a possible quarterback controversy.

For the most part, I thought everything went down just fine with Arch. And the fact that you got a little hung up on whether you should play him and what it means to sort of play him. I just don't think that is really relevant. I think you just you make these decisions in the moment as a coach and then, you know, But I will, can I throw this out to both of you guys? Because I do think this is the more interesting part of the conversation now, as we have it in February. How many people in the Texas fan base do you think would have liked to see Arch playing at the end of last season?

Do, do how many of them mean starting or playing on starter? Starting or playing? Starting. Oh, I think that's different. I think that at least 80% would probably be, yeah, he should be playing some. But not starting over Quinn. I don't know if 80% would be like take the job away from him completely. Gotcha.

So what, but I also have an issue with this whole like, well, he should be playing some and have a package. Cause again, it sort of makes Arch out to be a gadget guy. A gadget guy like Arch's Cam Newton, right? He's going to go in and not be the one with that. Well, you mean Tim Tebow. Or Tim Tebow.

Or he's going to be the Tim Tebow. Tim Tebow is a freshman, yeah. But he does something specifically good that Quinn Ubers is incapable of. So that's why that happens. Does he do it that much better? Does he do it that well that he is your running quarterback? I mean, enough to create a package for him in the A&M

game. I mean, they did it. They already showed. Like, they brought him in on fourth down running situations. They did running packages for him in A&M, and I believe he scored twice in that game, at least once. And the thing that I think is most ironic about this entire discussion is that my whole thing at the time that bothered you was that if you put Arch in,

you're going to mess up the minutia of the locker room potentially. You're going to mess with your starter starters, you know, thought process or feelings or confidence. You're going to create a circus of quarterback controversy and all those things, and all those things upset you. But I think it's kind of funny now in the ability now to look back at the season. It's like, was all that worth it when you didn't even use him when you could have used him in big games? No, no, no, no. He took a shot in the Ohio State game. I don't know that he could have come in.

You just also said something interesting. Was all that, all what worth it? They got to the semi-finals. I mean, he still got passed in every news conference for like a month, whether Arch was gonna play afterward. His quarterback could have had, it didn't turn out that way. He makes $9 million a year. He can handle a question every once in quarterback could have had, it didn't turn out that way. But Quindi was going to box out.

He makes $9 million a year. He can handle a question every once in a while. Yeah, it didn't. I'm just saying at the risk of it. Texas reached the semi-finals and was the most competitive team against the best team in college football last year. So I think Texas had a great season.

Like they maxed out. Like how much better would they have been if they had leaned into Arch also on the field? how much better would they have been if they had leaned into arch also better would they have been had they put arch manning in the game on second and goal from the two down seven with two minutes left and had a package that he was prepared again I'm not sure that game I'm not sure that was available to them and none of us knows and I know we probably want to move on a little bit but I would also say again it always goes back to this

with this whole conversation about like, I'm going to kind of defer to Steve Sarkeesian thinking that he might know which one of those. I don't know. He did call that toss. Yeah. So maybe not. Why was, was our injured? I don't remember. Was he injured or something? He took a shot in that game. Oh, okay. So he might not have been able to come in, but like, it is kind of a fun thing to think. It's like, how much better would they have been? I don't know if they brought him in and he they gave him more reps at interesting run packages from the goal line. Maybe they wouldn't have had that turnover that led to the loss.

They would have played for the national title this year. I don't know. They were pretty close tying the game, Ralph, and they didn't have a running situation there and there was a quarterback on the bench. So that presumably is good at that sort of thing. That's exactly what I'm talking about. OK, OK. I made I made an OK point, right? Like I don exactly what I'm talking about. Okay. Okay. I made an okay point, right?

Like, and I don't like, I'm not just But again, like, I feel like you're making, you're jumping to a big conclusion there of like, again, trying to like, here's this thing that didn't happen and you never know. Maybe it would have happened if my thing, if you had gone with my thing. That is what the nine months of the college football

off season is all about, though. Right. But I also don't like, like when you say things sometimes I get enraged and I'm like that's not what I meant or I like I think that you were right in how you took what I was saying and I think I agree with you that maybe I over blew it a little bit. There you go. Now here's where Ralph is going to praise Ari because there's another take that was an all season take by Ari, he never backed off of it.

And this, I think this was your finest work. Yeah, Ari identifying immediately that Notre Dame was still a playoff team, a championship contender, even though they had lost to Northern Illinois. The next morning. The next morning, never back down on that. And not only was it a good take because they played for the national championship,

the Fighting Irish did, even if, hey, you know, even if the Penn State game goes a different way, you were right. Like you were right, not only because of the result, you were right because of your thought process, which is far more important because we are not here to identify to predict the future, right? Predicting the future is fun. And when you get it right,

that's great. But that's not unless you have money on it. It doesn't really matter. Yeah, but unless you have money on that doesn't really matter. And it's very hard to predict the future. But what Ari was able to do is identify how good Notre Dame was and why throughout their schedule, they would still be in this thing. And that's exactly how it played out. So the fact that you stuck to your guns, and you were at the forefront of Notre Dame, I think is going to be okay here was was a spectacular take and very solid analysis. I'm happy you said that Remember sitting there with you in Columbus because we were in Columbus. We're talking to Ryan Day the next day. So We two games happen. We were in Ann Arbor covering, Michigan, Texas We watch Notre Dame lose and the next day we were in Columbus and we're like, oh we'll shoot shoot the videos out in front Of the horseshoe. It'll be cool. And I remember sitting there talking to you and we're like, oh, we'll shoot the videos out in front of the horseshoe.

It'll be cool. And I remember sitting there talking to you and you're like, Notre Dame is gonna be fine. Notre Dame is gonna be a playoff team. It's gonna be just fine. I'm like, there's no way the team that just lost to Northern Illinois is ever going to go undefeated the rest of the way. And sure enough, they did.

Well, I'm happy the thing that you said there, Ralph, that I think is interesting and has lost in a lot of what we do is that I'm never overly concerned about whether I'm ultimately right in a prediction or a thought. I think that it's all about the analysis of the situation and you do the best that you can with the information that we have to try to prognosticate the future. It's never, you know, throw crap against the wall and maybe you're right sometimes, maybe you're not. It's like I have sound thinking with the information that I have in this moment to say this thing.

And sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. Four years ago when Jim Harbaugh was, you know, having a rough time of it, I thought he should have been fired and that didn't. And I looked at their recruiting results and the way that they assembled their roster. I'm like, there's no way this team can win a national championship. And I think with the information that I had in that moment, that was a fair and sound reasonable take. And they went off to do something that was remarkable. And like that, like, so, but I don't feel bad about being wrong about that because I used, again, rational thought with the information in the moment.

So, you know, Notre Dame went on to be, I think even better than I anticipated, you know, in terms of where they went. But you know, I saw the ingredients that they had on their roster and I looked at their schedule and I thought, well, did they lose to NIU because they're not as good as NIU or did they just have a terrible day where they didn't take their opponent seriously? And like, I'm very proud of myself about that one, because you know, I have a, I'm prone to overreacting and changing my mind or being wooed by what just happened and I'm happy that I was able to you know remain steadfast in the analysis of what they had

on their roster that they proved me right. We have video of a very early RE Notre Dame take. I would go back to 48 hours ago and I would do whatever I could to have my job at on three starts soon so I could scream from the mountaintops what I've been feeling in my loins for the entire summer I've talked to Pete Sampson on my old podcast Notre Dame is going undefeated this year that's my official prediction and it does not hit the same after they go into College Station and win the way that they did but I want you guys to kn scouts honor. That's what into the year. I think th defense. Um, they're very

quarterback needs to stay have some options between and Chris Mitchell and gu this team to finally have of explosiveness on the o stinks like they are in a where if I had to draw it up and what I would guess if I was doing the bracketology thing, five seed.

So, what I was, and obviously that was before they lost NIU, but nonetheless the fact that you stuck to your guns and the reason why again I was impressed with the fact that you stuck with it because it was easy. Andy and I had the easy take. We easily overreacted. Yes. Well, but the easy take after NIU was not necessarily that they're done. Because I think even you and I hesitated to say

they're done. Mine was a team that would lose to a team like that. It simply is not capable of running the table. That was sort of the easy safe take that we all went to. Yes, of course, if they run the table, they're going to be in the mix here. But how is that team that I just saw going to run the table, they're too deficient here, there, and everywhere.

So the fact that you, again, you stuck with what you thought and wrote it to a national championship game, so to speak, was pretty impressive. And again, not just because you were right, but because you had sound analysis there. And then also doubled down before the playoff too. I had them beating Georgia and people freaked out. I feel pretty good about it.

Notre Dame has a soft spot in my heart now for making me look good for once. You should dress up like a leprechaun. Yeah, I don't know why. Why have I not thought of this? I can't believe that. This is incredible. Chubby Jewish guys, a leprechaun would be

a pretty electric picture, wouldn't it? I cannot, listen, they would do it. That dude who plays the leprechauns cool, like I feel like he would let us borrow the costume. You've lost a lot of weight. I think you can get into it now. I was gonna say, can you wait a second? Yeah, I think you can.

And I don't mean that, I guess. You've lost a lot of weight. I think you can get into it now. Wait a second. Yeah, I think you can. And I don't mean that. Yes, you've lost a lot of weight. You look tremendous. But the leprechaun costume is supposed to be small. It's very, very form-fitting. But I'm in. You know what? After this, I got to go get a swimsuit for Cabo. I'm wearing a size large XL. I don't know. It might not be tight like Andy, but maybe I'll wear some Spanx or something and you still be the world's largest leprechaun. Oh for sure. Yeah And first Jewish leprechaun at 190 pounds. I'm still like a pretty large broad-shouldered guy. So um, Yeah, and I'm also like a foot taller than the guy that was dressed like a leprechaun I am I am so excited to see this like the image is in my head and

We're gonna make this happen. We are going to dress you as a leprechaun at some point in the off season. We have to. I want to spin this forward a little bit guys. This Notre Dame conversation because we saw them go deep in the playoff and do it in a way that I also never would have predicted at the beginning of the season. If you told me Notre Dame will have five season ending injuries to very key players, including maybe their best defensive player, I would have said this is not possible because Notre Dame can't be that deep. Marcus Freeman has proven us wrong that Notre Dame can be that deep. Can Notre Dame continue to be that deep?

Is this something that we can, we should expect year in and year out now? Well, I think that like the thing here, I'll let you, I'll go first, then I'll let you go. But the thing that is interesting about Notre Dame, and I think it's the same with Oregon and South Carolina and all the teams like Illinois, for instance, maybe not so much as South Carolina and the other teams, but the depth in which you need to be now isn't the same as what it was four years ago. So they might, you know, like how deep was Notre Dame or is it just other teams that they were playing or shallower? That's the question. So, you know, I'll let you go Ralph, but like I feel like Notre Dame this year was still a very good team and the analysis that I had of that,

bared out to be true, but I still don't know that this year's Notre Dame team would have been able to stay on the same field as 2020 Bama, because those they played one of them this year and they, they, you know, they had a really good game I thought for what what they were facing back at the end against Ohio, but they were not as good as Ohio State in the game until like way late. So, you know, like that to me, it's like, can Notre Dame be what they were this year again? I think absolutely. Can Notre Dame ever be a... Which is really good if we're in the national title in the next five years. Exactly. I just don't know that I ever think that Notre Dame could... like I keep... I think it's conceivable that Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State, maybe even Clemson, if they start working the port a little bit better, could be as deep as teams that we've seen in the late teens, early 20s, maybe. I don't know that Notre Dame can ever be that deep. I think that Notre Dame can be deep enough in the right year to win the national title though. Right. So you kind of stole my thunder there, but that's okay. I'll spin off of it. The question is, Notre Dame's sustainability is in part a question about the state of the sport. Is this the new state of play

where you don't have to have a super team with a talent composite score of over a thousand to win a national championship? My guess is as much as they have gotten better, if we're just talking about next year, listen, a lot's gonna depend on how the quarterback plays and if CJ Carr is the guy or somebody, or Steve Angelli is the guy. So from a very micro angle, I think they're probably gonna have a fair amount of talent coming back on defense.

Their offensive line should be amazing and it's probably gonna come down to the quarterback zone, which makes me think that Notre Dame is clearly in position to be a consistent playoff team, whether they can get back to the national championship game and then maybe take it one step further, I think is more of a global discussion about the state of the sport. I would agree with that. And the thing is, if Ari and I are right, because Ari and I have said this a million

times since the season ended, there will not be a team like Ohio State in 20. There won't be a 2024 Ohio State in 2025. Yeah, where they're just loaded to the gills with old really good players. Well, and that's the other thing too, with Notre Dame and Notre Dame's team had a little bit of this too. They had some old really good players.

Yeah, and they but they might be one of the schools that is best suited to get the old teams because you don't really want to transfer out of Notre Dame until you get the Notre Dame degree. Right. I think they are if part of the new state of college football is we're going to have some older teams that are going to close the gap on the three and done heavy teams by simply having a few extra fourth and fifth year guys, 22 and 23 years old.

I think Notre Dame is situated to have those types of teams maybe more frequently than a lot of the other contenders. Yeah, that's a good point. I never thought of that. This is the sort of stuff I guess we need to start thinking. Exactly. That's why we have the almost. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Like the Notre Dame, the way that place is and the type of person that goes there to begin with is the type of person that might want to stay longer. Right. You don't choose that to say, well, if I'm not playing after a year, I'm out you choose Notre Dame because in part you

want to get a Notre Dame degree because if you're being recruited by Notre Dame, you're also being recruited by a Notre Dame degree. Because if you're being recruited by Notre Dame, you're also being recruited by a lot of other places that are good at football, that put people in the NFL and you're picking that probably in part because you would like that degree or be part of that net, that alumni network. So it makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. And I wonder if that will be something that the Michigan's and the Notre Dame's and those schools

can hang their hats on. I think being able to recreate that Michigan model, and I'm always gonna refer to it as the Michigan model. Yeah, the 2023 Michigan, yeah. Frankly, Washington did it too that year. I would say Ohio State did it last year. And they absolutely did it last year. But being able to create what I'm gonna always think of

as the Michigan model and how often we can do that going forward again is going to be a big story in terms of the state of college football in this new era. Busy mornings, working lunches. I got the solution for you. This is the Huel Black Edition. 35 grams of protein, 27 vitamins and minerals, 7 grams of fiber. This is a meal in a bottle and it's a godsend when you're a very busy parent, when you're a very busy person in general. I can grab one in the morning. That's my breakfast. It gets me through to lunch. My wife will take one to work. My kids will grab them if they need a quick meal and they don't have time to forage for something or cook something or get me to cook something.

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You're like, what am I gonna do? I'm starving. I need to get through to lunchtime. I gotta work. How am I gonna handle this? You grab a bottle of Hewuel, they take care of you. Speaking of the state of college football and the new era, there is another topic that Ralph,

I remember many, many text messages on this particular, this is a years long debate. So it's probably more than that. That came to a head this year because we actually got to see an expanded playoff. And then you had Ari calling Paul Feinbaum an existential threat, enraging Brad from Macon, creating great content for the show. But Ralph, what were your thoughts on all that? So it's funny because Ari was definitely a playoff obstructionist for a long period of time,

because Ari was definitely a playoff obstructionist for a long period of time, hung up on old ideals and the pursuit of excellence, which I think was essentially the core of why you were wrong. But I also thought- The pursuit of being one of the schools with the money, one of the three schools with the money to have the best recruits. Right, but here's your pivot during this season.

And again, I don't think it's a pivot because you were a flip flop, or I just thought you understood what was being in play with this particular season's, the first round of this playoff and being the champion of Indiana and being the champion of, you know, to a certain degree SMU, right? These teams that maybe their schedules weren't great. And, you know, your argument came down to the games have to matter. Right. And I thought that that was the, the crux of an excellent argument that I understand that we can do power rankings and things along those lines. But at a certain point, if the games don't matter, if we're not rewarding,

winning on the field, then we could just throw out the season. Then why are we even playing a season, take the talent composite and throw it out there? And that would be the way to just, you know, determine a national championship. So when you were making those arguments through a big portion of the season, I found myself again, never more in love

with you, Ari. Never did you look better because you just nailed- Wait, you're steaming the leprechaun costume. You nailed the whole essence of why the playoff in some ways needed to expand, right? To include the great story of Indiana, the great stories of SMU. And also to maybe understand that the fourth, fifth or sixth best team, the fifth, sixth or seventh best team in the country could be a really good team that was worth giving a platform in the post season that could win a national championship.

But the last thing I'll say, the pivot there though is I think unfortunately your argument undercut your previous argument and showed why you were so wrong. Because I think your fallback on we have to reward excellence, miss this idea. When you don't have a playoff, you're actually rewarding randomness. You're rewarding Notre Dame happening to go undefeated in 2012 when they clearly weren't the second best team in the country, but they won a bunch of actually number one going into the right.

They were number one, but they won a bunch of close games. Meanwhile, Oregon loses an overtime game. I think it was that you're to Stanford. And I would argue Texas a and M at the end of that season would have beaten anybody and Texas a and M possibly gets beaten. If you, if you have a, an actual playoff, you, you grow the sample size and you, it allows you to then better identify who the best team is, because what you're rewarding over a 12 game season to a certain degree is randomness,

just like for example, Ohio State, Michigan this past year. That was just a rando result that happens because sports are great and we get weird games. And every once in a while, the team that's supposed to win is not supposed to win. But the old system emphasized too much of the randomness, which was cool and had some quirks. And listen, as a college football fan from way back in the day,

I like weird national champions, but I think the system is better served moving on from that and actually identifying the best team. And the way you do that is create a bigger sample size of good games where teams have to play other good teams. Good teams play other good teams. So where I erred, because I think that like I will admit now that I was probably wrong about the expansion. And the reason why I was so steadfastly against it was because I was also married to what the sport looked like in 2019. Like I was still in my head feeling like when you go into a season and you can pick between

six teams who have enough talent to win the national championship and you're going to be right 95% of the time, if not 100%, then what's the point of playing with 12 teams when we can't even find five? But then I look at the preseason top 15 that Andy and I have put together, top 25, and it's like, I don't have any idea who the national champion's gonna be next year.

And there's no list or composite ranking where I can use as a cheat sheet to say, well, the national champion will be one of these six or seven teams. Now the other part of that too, because I think that what you said before the show was that my championing of Indiana and my argument base against Paul Feinbaum and Brad from Macon undercuts my previous thing. But at the same time, I don't know if my thought process of the importance of talent has changed.

My thought process has changed in that if we're going to have this system and you're gonna have 12, then we can't throw results out from teams who actually win because that's the point of expanding it. Like I don't want to expand it just to throw a three lost team in there because I think they may be good.

I still think that you need to reward the teams that take care of business. So I, the thing that is so crazy to me is that, I don't know if you saw the Brad from making debate that I just had with this guy a few days ago. There's a lot of- I'm going to be honest. It was tremendous. I've been a little- It's going to be honest, it was tremendous.

It's I've been a little bit great in flight. I will send you the video. You will love me. I've been a little tied up the last couple of days. So I am behind on the most current shows. I'm going to just still the same rerun of like, Oh, we got to think that they should just put Ole Miss or South Carolina and then you're alienating 85% of fan bases out there because their teams games won't matter. And like the thing that is interesting to me is like as funny as it is to laugh at Brad from Macon who's a Georgia fan who of course feels that way. There were a lot of people in prominent media positions who were tweeting and saying very similar things as this was happening, including Paul. And I would love, and I still

haven't had the opportunity to have that debate with him. Because I want to know from people who cover the sport or were getting a thousand retweets from SEC fans about this, what their actual platform is to the other side of that argument. Because I feel like for me, it's like, oh, Ari, I love you so much for saying what you said. And it's like, I appreciate that, Ralph, but I don't even know what the counterpoint is. I feel like it's so obvious. Like, what's the actual counterpoint? To live in a world where results don't matter and we just throw shit against the wall and

whatever happens, happens? Like, no, of course we have to have some sort of structure. That was the old college football system. That's how it used to work. But the old college football system worked out because there was a group, there was a clear tier upper echelon of teams. We don't really know actually. So, so let me push back on you for a second here, Ari, because I think because they didn't lose very often.

But let me look because you covered one of the teams. We this one that we get back to and it was at the very beginning of the super team era that 2015 Ohio State team was eliminated from the playoff because of randomness, because of a wet game that they didn't give the ball to Zeke. Yeah. Urban Meyer forgot Zeke was on the team. Right.

You guys watched the whole season though, right? They played like ass the entire year. They were dysfunctional the entire year. No, the funny thing is that they, after Zeke went off on your question, right. They figured it out. Right. And my point, but my point R is like, the funny thing was like, even though I was, I was national, I actually covered like four Ohio state games that year. I was, I was in Columbus a lot that year. So I did see a

lot of that team. And yes, I remember in fact, bring up Northern Illinois, there was that weird Northern Illinois game early in the season that they needed to pick six to finally separate from the Huskies. So you're right. But my point being is that like that season, Michigan State got into the playoff because of randomness. Right. And I got blown out by Alabama. I think there's a lot of people that root for Michigan State that would would push back and be offended by your analysis. But of course they deserved to be in the playoff.

They did. The rules of engagement were different then, so they deserve to get in then. Just like Cincinnati deserved to get in. No, not the notion that you think that it was random that Michigan State won the game. No, Ari, if you put 2015 Ohio State in a 12-team playoff that year. They win, just like this year same thing I don't know why I don't know that they would have beaten Alabama or Clemson, but it would have been fun to see Yeah, my point is to it because I tend I always tell you I look at these things a little bit like

Not all or nothing and I have a very analytical brain if Michigan State and Ohio State played ten times that year Ohio State probably wins what? Eight of them? Maybe even nine. And that's a very good Michigan State. I know it's a very good Michigan State team. So again, my, my, my whole argument for the playoff had always sort of been that like, I think we were leaning too much into one result can eliminate a team that was really good. So I only bring up that team to push back on. I know for the most part, for the most part, the 14 playoff, there was

very rarely situations where you thought, oh, that team got left out. Maybe they could have won it all because we were going through an era of these monster teams. But I think there was enough. And Ohio State is actually probably the team. I'll go back to 2012 because we mentioned Oregon, we mentioned Texas A&M. The 2012 Georgia team might have been the one that ultimately won the national title. Because they played that classic SEC Championship game against Alabama before Alabama played Notre Dame. I 1000% agree with what you're saying. But my previous notion of that, having covered that team,

is that they returned a bulk of their roster from a team that won the national championship the year before. A lot of them, Ohio State arrived a year early. Like, oh, 15 was the beginning of the year. 2015 Ohio State is 1999 Tennessee. But when you look at the aggregate. The same team that won the national title, maybe even more talented than it was,

but they've already gotten there. And so they're all not as focused as they were before. When you look at the entire season though, in the fact that half their roster had one foot in the NFL and one foot in college, they couldn't figure out who their starting quarterback was. They middled through the season. They never found sharpness. It's like, yeah, the Michigan State game, I guess you could say was came down. It was probably the biggest blunder of urban Myers coaching career. And like, I got to finish this, Andy, I have to finish. Okay, go ahead, go

ahead. My point is that a team that played like that all year didn't deserve to win the national title that year, even if they had a roster that was good enough to theoretically run the table after the fact, they did not play like champions all year. So even though they didn't win or they didn't get to go, like that was the price of admission was to be great and be great consistently. And that Ohio state team, though individually great, never lived up to that, to that billing. And that's why winning a national title is hard. Did the best team

win the national title in the 44 team era every year? I probably would say most of the time, but even in the years they did at the teams that ended up losing didn't do enough with what I had in order to have to in order to play for it. That was my stance on that. The 2015 Ohio State team actually figured it out one game earlier than the 2024 Ohio State team because I was at the 2015 Michigan Ohio State game that was a different team because they booted the OC up to the box they changed their

play calling structure they were completely different organization at that point because of the question you asked Zeke really yeah I don't know I get a title ring but but at the same time too it's like part of winning a national championship is not having the ability in that era to figure it out in week 12. Like you have to figure it out earlier. That's like you have to be great. You have to be a champion. You have to be great.

They just weren't great yet. So and my and my whole argument to you when we constantly go back and forth on this stuff, and I know you're you're you're you're a change man now, you've seen the light, is the system is better giving those teams a chance to win the national championship. It's better for the sport to open up the field and allow those teams to win a national championship than have so much in play on just a couple of random results. And I think I agree with that. The thing I'm interested to see in college football is if the next four national champions are six through eight seeds that were just Georgia,

Bama, you know, Ole Miss type teams that were like really, really good, that didn't do good enough. You know who changed my mind? What really changed my mind was ASU. Like having their story told. Being in the game against Texas, yeah. Yeah, that Kam Skatt in the game against sex. Yeah. Yeah that cam scataboo game against Texas like the fact that in a previous life or four years ago in the 14 era cam scataboo would not have had that moment the entire country might not still know who he is.

The fact that we as college football fans and writers were enriched and blessed enough to be along for that ride is what changed my mind. And that's what we were trying to get across though. And that's what I was trying to tell you. And I was wrong about that. These stories and these teams are better situated to be celebrated and you get more value, quite frankly, from them if you're putting them on a bigger stage in the old format. I'm with you. Kick those teams aside and say, well, you're not good enough to play for a national championship so you don't get nothing.

You can play a heart roll against a team that's gonna have 50 opt outs. Yeah, my heart does not bleed for super teams that didn't figure it out till week 12 though, is what I'm saying. That's okay. And I'm very curious too. Nor does mine. And I'm very curious too how the general public is gonna feel if the next national national champions are you know teams that lost two or three times that middled around all year and then got hot at the end of the year if they're going to like that like if this is the if this

year's national championship race is a prognostication or a clue into what it's going to look like more years than not i think people are going to become frustrated by that because nobody wants alabama to have a third or fourth chance. I think you're heading down the wrong street again, Ari. You do? You think that Ohio State, people were like, oh, thank God, Ohio State got a third chance this year. No, I think people learn that that's the way this works now.

Plus, I also think schedules are harder, so it's going to be hard to go undefeated. harder, so it's going to be hard to go undefeated. I think a lot of what has stood in the way for you is I think you're underestimating how people will simply react to a new world and how people's brains can really quickly flip to, okay, now the goal is X and that's what I'm rooting for my team to do is X. And I know I don't want to get down the whole rivalry game. I don't want to go down that rabbit hole. Oh, please don't do it. We don't have time for that. I would get mad at you.

But I think there is a complete relearning, re-education, if you will, of what it means to follow this sport and root for your team in this sport that is currently going on. I understand it's stark for all of us, but I do think we're living through, we're literally living through evolution. Yeah. And the part that made me happy, and again, I don't know if this is going to continue, but we saw it this year. We were still dumbfounded by the Ohio State Michigan game.

In the moment, it was, oh my god. And then in the moment when ASU is beating Texas, and then, oh my god. That is the whole point of this. The more times the sport can make you go, oh my god, that's what you want. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, the Ohio State michiga a a earthquake. Um and in still take that personally know what will be interest to happen eventually and Ohio State Michigan, it m bowl. It might be another rivalry game happens in November and one team

beats the other and then they face each other again in the playoff and the team that lost the first one wins the second one. That's the death blow to me. You mean like when the Eagles played the commanders the third time this year? Yeah. And uh. There you go again with the NFL. Yeah. Yeah. The most popular sport in America. It works pretty well. I think that's gonna be the death blow of like what, what those games actually mean.

I don't know. The commanders seem pretty happy when they beat the Eagles. Yeah. I don't know. Again, I think you overrate some of like where the feeling the in the moment, I think that's a big part of, of, of all of this is I think that we get so caught up in the stakes of this all and how the stakes have changed that we forget that in the moment we can get drawn to a Texas tech game against, we can get drawn

to a game between two teams with four losses that goes overtime and it blows up your Twitter timeline. So that like, I think there's a certain amount of in the moment for this sport. When, when a rivalry game goes a certain way that won't, that doesn't get lost just because the stakes beyond the game are different. Yeah. We, and we spend so much time Ari and and I on our show, being 30,000 feet above it, and trying to explain what it all means. But thank God that when the game is on, and it doesn't matter which game, and it doesn't matter what week, I'm still sucked into it.

And all I care about is that moment. Yeah. And like you said, And all I care about is that moment. Yeah, yeah. And like you said, like you said, like the Ohio State Michigan game, I remember when we recorded the video outside of Texas Roadhouse, like that was like, holy crap. Like it didn't feel any less big that day. In fact, Ari, I don't wanna cut you off there,

but I felt like this season, I wrote this at some point, we are starting to learn to be more in the moment of this season and not so worried about, it's week five, are their playoff hopes over? It's week seven, is the season over? I think it allows you to live in the moment a little longer because everything is not so definitive in the moment. There are more possibilities beyond that moment. Yeah, there were so many fewer instances in October and September of, well, they're done. Yeah, yeah. And for example, as we look at what we did, we were wrong.

Your shining moment, like the fact that you after Northern Illinois, as awesome as the Northern Illinois upset was, it was one of the moments of the season. Just because it didn't end Notre Dame season doesn't mean it still wasn't one of the awesome moments of the season. Yeah, I'm with you. And I think we prematurely remember we were doing that list of here are the 23 teams who are still left to make the college football playoff and every week I would publish it and you'd be like, Hey, what about this team? I'm like,

Oh God, you're right. Like we would, we would like eliminate teams prematurely based on preconceived notions of how the thing would work. And then another upset would happen. And then it would open the door back over to this team. And it's like, there's a, yeah, yeah. The craziest thing I just keep thinking about this going into that last Saturday and you and I had this conversation when you were making that list. I was like, Ari, I think Baylor's still mathematically alive to make the big 12 championship. You gave me like, what? And I'm like, no, no, here's the scenario. Yeah. The big 12 is that meme of, why can't you just be normal? I love it. Like that, that was exactly what I hoped it would be this

year. And I hope it's even more nuts next year. And, uh, no, it was a lot of fun. 12 team playoff is absolutely perfect. If we actually get a season next year where there are no super teams and there are legitimately 17 teams who are good enough to get together to win. Like that's what you need. Where, where it feels like 10 of the 12 teams can really win the whole thing. And I've told you guys this too before. I've had, I think it was on the text thread at some point. Like, hey, like I do think that maybe we might be going

a little overboard with the parody talk. And we're probably still looking at a world where 16. We say this in Alabama is gonna go 16 and 0. Yeah, I think that we're still looking at a world where like the teams that are able to win it all are still a relatively small number. But I think, but think about it. If you go from three to six, you've doubled it. Yeah, I think I think we might have actually gone from four or three to 10 or 12, which

changes the entire. I mean, like, listen, Notre Dame would have been between 9 and 12, like, two years ago. Like, and they were playing the title this year. If you throw the Ole Miss roster into the playoff, that team, if it gets hot, could have won the thing. But here's the other thing, too, Ari. It's not just can you win the whole thing. If you get in and you're capable of winning a game, that throws off everything. Everything, right. Because maybe you are knocking off one of the teams that can that can win

the national championship, which means that the trickle down on that going forward determines who wins the national champion and this year we got that now. Funny enough, Arizona State was a higher seed, but I think if Arizona State would have beaten Texas, it would have been the equivalent of, you know higher seed, but I think if Arizona State would have beaten Texas, it would have been the equivalent of, you know, eight button one in a way that we like is hidden in the dysfunctional seating. And like, I mean, Arizona State literally basically beat Texas.

I know they ended up winning the game, but they, yeah, at 413, Texas converted, like it was over. So like, and that to me is the one and 13, the Texas Converters won it. Like it was over. Yeah. And that to me is the one thing too. The game is essentially a tie. Yeah. And I said, like, we're not going to get upsets in the football bracket like we do in the basketball bracket.

And by God, I was wrong. Well, you only need one. It hasn't happened yet, but I was wrong. And it's going to happen more than I thought it would. And again, you only need one because there's just fewer games. You only need one, maybe two to throw everything into a tizzy. And unlike, unlike on the basketball side. Well, it was a lot of fun this season.

I was so happy to be back with Ari. So happy that, that Ralph came back as a listener and was on our asses. It was amazing. I love you both. I am one of your most loyal listeners. I'm already disappointed that I'm not going to get a chance to torch you over your crazy top 25 coaches list. But maybe, you know, a long off season Ralph, I'll show up at your apartment in Brooklyn

and I am interested offline. I can just, I'm interested in hearing what you thought was crazy because when you that's Andrew's at number seven. Yeah. David, David. Yeah, no, I know. But I just want you to know, Ralph, the reason why I didn't respond was because you did it. Like the day it published during which my entire phone was

what the hell is this? And I didn't have the energy to have the same conversation with 50 people. But I would like, I respect your opinion. And I would love to talk through a lot of that. Maybe we can I mean, it's a long off season. Maybe you can come back and we can do it here in a few weeks. The ombudsman is always welcome here on the show. Ralph, thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks, Ralph. And thank you for listening. We'll talk to you on Monday.