Andy & Ari On3 - QB Brendan Sorsby taking leave from Texas Tech as NCAA investigates gambling

Episode Date: April 27, 2026

On Monday, news broke that Texas Tech QB Brendan Sorsby would be taking a leave of absence from the Red Raider program for a gambling addiction. Watch here as Andy & Ari react to this piece of news out of Lubbock here. What’s next for the Texas Tech Red Raiders? Andy & Ari discuss this breaking news here.   (0:00) On Today’s Episode (0:53) Presenting Sponsor (2:01) Intro: Brendan Sorsby News (10:15) What’s next for Texas Tech (16:25) SEC’s Dominance in 2026 NFL Draft (24:35) Does the SEC have a coaching problem? (32:03) By the numbers (39:01) Diego Pavia Undrafted (45:42) NIL’s Impact on the later rounds of NFL Draft (58:13) Story Time: Repeating a grade? (1:00:30) Clemson’s NFL Draft Picks (1:13:26) Notre Dame wraps up spring practice (1:27:06) Conclusion: Thanks for watching!   As Andy & Ari continue, the fellas recap all the action of the 2026 NFL Draft. As the Big Ten stole most of the show during round one, did the SEC establish itself as the dominant conference? Andy & Ari discuss.   Next up, the fellas breakdown Vanderbilt QB Diego Pavia going undrafted. Being the first Heisman finalist since 2014 to go undrafted, should the QB out of Nashville be on an NFL roster?   Later, Andy & Ari discuss how NIL has affected the NFL Draft in recent years.   Afterwards, Andy & Ari visit Clemson, where the Tigers tied Miami in producing the most draft prospects out of the ACC. How did Dabo Swinney and Clemson struggle so much this past season?   To close, the guys visit Notre Dame, where the Irish just wrapped up its spring practice. Is Marcus Freeman’s squad destined for the CFP this season? Watch here as the guys discuss.   Send your questions to: [e-mail] [e-mail]   Our show is also presented by BetMGM!   If you haven’t signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code CFB and you will get up to a $1500 First Bet Offer on your first wager with BetMGM! Here’s how it works:   1. Download the BetMGM app and sign-up using bonus code CFB. 2. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game. 3. You will receive up to $1500 in bonus bets if your bet loses! Just make sure you use bonus code CFB when you sign up!   Make this college football season one for the history books. Make it legendary.   See BetMGM.com for Terms. 21+ only. This promotional offer is not available in DC, Mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET (Available in the US) . 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), 1-800-327-5050 (MA), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR). First Bet Offer for new customers only (if applicable). Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel   Join On3 today! https://www.on3.com/join   Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari Wasserman Producer: River Bailey   Interested in partnering with the show? Email [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On today's Andy and Rion 3, Texas Tech quarterback Brendan Sorsby, taking indefinite leave of absence from the team seeking treatment for a gambling addiction. Sorsby also investigated now by the NCAA for potential past gambling activity. We don't know what that means for how much he could play for Texas Tech or not this season. A lot up in the air right now for one of the guys who's one of the biggest offseason investments by any program. coming from the transfer portal. Plus, R&I break down the final numbers from this weekend's NFL draft. Is the SEC still the king of producing talent

from college football? And what do the numbers mean for the SEC, the Big Ten, and everybody else? We'll talk about all that on today's Andy and Arion 3. This show is sponsored by BetMGM. If you're not already signed up for BetMGM, download the app. Use the code CFB when you sign up.

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Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in seven days, in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Welcome to Andy and Ari on 3, presented by BedMGM. And I say that, and I know what you're going to say. You guys are about to talk about a quarterback, taking a leave of absence from his team, being treated for a gambling addiction. You are sponsored by a sports book. Yes, we are. And this is a serious issue.

And we're not going to hide from that. That's something we have to talk about, Ari. It's just part of the deal. still, sports gambling is very prevalent now. It is legal in most states. And it's something all of the teams and the leagues have to deal with. And this Brendan Sorosby situation is just another example of that. Andy, when I was a kid, when I say kid, college student, you know, early 20s,

when we're dating back now 15 years, sports gambling was done online to a certain extent, was done through bookies that you would have in college and, you know, certain things, but it wasn't a very prevalent thing. Sports gambling now is a major part of pop culture. It's a major part of, you know, Instagram and TikTok reels. And it's a large part of what we cover here because it's so interesting people. And it's not just here, it's everywhere. Gambling ads are in every arena.

in pro sports. Gambling ads are on podcasts, and it has become a mainstream activity, Andy, that I would say that 95% of my adult male friends participated. And the widespread integration of gambling, both into your sports viewership experience and into daily life, is also going to open up extra doors to people who might struggle with that. Because as BetMGM will put it, we know gambling responsibly is a serious thing that everybody has to, you know, account for and they take it seriously.

But the more widespread something is, the more you're going to hear about people struggling with it. And that's just the reality of how accessible it is in this day and age. Yeah. And now you have a situation where Brendan Sorsby came from Cincinnati to Texas Tech this offseason. What did Texas Tech need? offense. What happened to them? They got shut out in the in the Orange Bowl by Oregon. They had bought a really good roster, but they didn't buy a good enough offense. They'd bought a really good defense. They had not bought a really good offense. They needed a better quarterback. They needed more consistent

quarterback play. So they go get Brendan Sourgeby from Cincinnati. One of the biggest investments in the transfer portal. You know, we've talked about what we're, you know, what dollar figures you're dealing with, you're dealing with 5 million plus for one year for a quarterback. And we don't know what's going to happen now because the NCAA is investigating this. And depending on how it went, so Pete Dammel from ESPN reported that it's thousands of bets, but the ones that you probably, if you're Texas Tech, you're worried about the most, according to ESPN's Pete Thamel, would be the ones when he was redshirting at Indiana. and allegedly placed bets on Indiana games that he wasn't playing it.

He played in one game, but yeah. And Pete confirmed that too, Pete Nacos here at On 3. So that's where we're at with things. And I think like there's five different, you know, directions we can take this. One is what does this mean specifically for Brendan and like what he might be facing next year in terms of a penalty? And I know that there are guidelines for this. The guideline amounts, I think, are very interesting, Andy. From what I've read here and what Wilson Alexander published for On 3 is, you know, $200 or less of total money would be further education.

$201 to $500 is loss of 10% of season plus further education. $501 to $800 is loss of 30% of the season and then more than 800 is NCAA reinstatement staff will consider whether further loss of eligibility is appropriate. Now, the thing that I think is interesting here is how much money did Brendan Sorsby make, we think? Probably $4 or $5 million coming into this, but he was compensated before. And there's a fight going on right now because remember Cincinnati has sued him over his buyout. But you got all that in the background. Andy, I'm no high roller here, but those are low numbers for what this could mean. So I'm very curious.

Like, I mean, I think betting $250 on an NBA playoff game is Saturday afternoon. So if he pays thousands of bets, I'm assuming that he clears. I don't know what his units are, but he would clear the $800. Allegedly the amounts are pretty small. The unit size is fairly small. Yeah. But I don't know what it adds up to. Well, I mean, $5 times a thousand bets is.

Right. I don't know. I think that it's safe to say. sport you play than anything else because there are things they can bet on. I believe they can bet on paramutual stuff. I think they can bet on you like combat sports, that sort of thing. They were going to change the rules to let them bet on the NFL and NBA. And remember, I think they flipped that rule back over and said you can't do that now.

Yeah. So, you know, it's an interesting dynamic because if you're in, gambling treatment, then that means that you are probably more susceptible than others to making a decision that you should not make, whether that means playing a game that you are affiliated with the team or on the team, even if you're not in the game or even worse. So this is something that they've got to take seriously. Yeah. And so I don't know what it means.

The suspension you talked about, the $500 to $800 one is 30%. That's, what is it? So we're talking about three games there. Three or three. Yeah. So that would probably be the best case scenario for Texas Tech. And the worst case scenario is he's not allowed to play at all. And you're probably wondering now, what is that?

Like who's next at Texas Tech? Remember Will Hammond came in for them last year, came in for Baron Morton against Utah, but then got hurt later in the season. and Will Hammond is back throwing just today. There is no guarantee that he's fully healthy by the time the season starts, but I think that's the hope. And then they've got a redshirt freshman who also could play Lloyd Jones III, who had an injury in high school that he was recovering from for a lot of the offseason last year.

And he actually got into his first game against West Virginia late in the season. So he was another one. tried, Andy. We started the beginning motions of having a discussion about which teams would feel comfortable if they had to put their backup quarterback in. Wouldn't Texas Tech be one of them? Like in terms of like shouldering a four game suspension or, you know, completely speculating. But I think if Brennan Sorsby can't play, it is a totally different thing because you can't, you can't replace him now. Like there's no spring portal window. You can't replace him. So. what do you do? But the backup situation could be worse, is what I'm saying. Right, but Will Hammond's coming off an injury. He's not fully healthy right now. So it's not a good situation at all.

And remember, you went out and got Brendan Sorsby because what you had did not give you confidence that you could score against a playoff defense. Because you scored zero points against the playoff defense last year. Yeah. So considering this news broke just a few hours before we recorded, I'm sure there's more information and more insight about what's going to happen coming in the next days and weeks. But this is a highly important situation because Texas Tech comes into this offseason and going into the season next year as the clear and unquestionable favorite to win the Big 12. And a team that is trying to advance past where they went last year, which was an exit in their first game.

So, Andy, I don't know if this is the right time for this, if we want to do this tomorrow. but I do have questions that I'm not aware of the answers to, which is if Soresby is suspended or can't play for a long period of time in this game, what does that mean for what he's being compensated? And if it means that he is due that money, no matter what, do we need to have a better vetting process for who you're paying? I don't know what the contract says.

So I think that we'll have to find that out. And look, we'll find that out because if it turns out that he gets suspended for a significant period of time or the whole season, I would imagine if you're Texas Tech, you're trying to claw that money back. Yeah. So one way or the other, we'll find out about that. But I don't know what the contract says.

Most contracts, at least the coaching ones we've seen, are very clear about you must follow NCAA rules. So this is such an interesting thought, though, because we always talk about how hard it is, Andy, to scout and, I guess, for lack of better word, vet the player. Like, we gave Kurt Signetti a lot of credit for what he did with Pat Coogan and, like, getting to know him in a 30-minute phone call while he was driving to Chicago or from Chicago. But given how fast the NIL portal window in and how much money is at stake,

depending on what happens here, I don't know if it could set precedent or at least guide future deals based on how you fully make sure that your investment is covered. Because if there is a situation where Brendan Sorsby does not play this year, Texas Tech's team would probably still maybe be viewed as the favorite to win the Big 12, but changes the entire dynamic of what they were trying to accomplish this year. And that's a lot of money just in a single deal.

So maybe we're nine, steps ahead of where we should be right now. But these are all things that we have to consider as the story advances through the next year. Absolutely, absolutely, because the transfer portal timeline does not allow much of a vetting process. And we joke about tampering all the time. You can tamper all you want, but you're probably not going to be able to properly vet somebody, even if you're tampering like crazy with it.

For sure. And how could you, how could anybody know this? We didn't even know this. So, you know, it's it's a very serious situation. And I think obviously everybody is on the same page with we have to do what we can as a college football community and infrastructure to protect the integrity of the game. Right. These rules are there for a reason. Like there's a reason why the people playing college football are not allowed to bet on college football at all for any reason ever, even if it's for your own team to win, even if it's if you're not playing college football.

even if it's for your own team to win, even if it's if you're not playing. Like it's the lines are very clear there. And it's because there's no game otherwise. If you can't believe the game is played straight up, one, nobody wants to see the game. Two, I mean, like if you're bet MGM, you can't, nobody's going to bet on the game.

I mean, I can make the case that BetMGM probably has the most to at stake in terms of maintaining the integrity of it their entire business right there's these gambling companies all subscribe to these monitoring agencies like it's not an accident yeah they need it to they they need it to be found out yeah trust me if if people caught whid that things were fixed they wouldn't want to bet it so um yeah you know it's a huge story and something that we will continue to monitor as the days go on and more information comes out. But you can bet on three's staff will get to the bottom of all the important questions. And we will update you according to-

Are you sure about the choice of words there? What was the-what did I say? You can bet on three staff. You can count on on-three staff to get to the- There we go. Okay. All right. And we will accordingly update.

Trying not to be flipping about this. And it's hard. And trying to acknowledge, because again, Like our title sponsor is a sports book. ESPN has an official sports book. The NBA has an official sports book. There are casino logos painted on fields at college football stadiums. So it's part of the ecosystem.

This is a part of it being part of the ecosystem. Stuff like this is part of that. And it's going to happen every once in a while. So we will find out more as the days and weeks go on. this is a story that I think everybody in college football is going to be paying attention to for a lot of reasons. Everybody in the Big 12 is certainly going to be paying attention to it because whether Brendan Sforzby can play or not probably changes who's favored in the Big 12. So a lot to digest, a lot to discuss over the next few days and weeks, and then we'll see where this all lands. but we had recorded a whole show before this came down.

Now, let's go to that show where we break down all of the draft numbers and try to figure out what it all means for the SEC, for the Big Ten, and for everybody else. Ari, we talked on Friday about the Big Ten having the most first-round draft picks, and I said, okay, is this year, is this the year that somebody has, has more draft picks than the SEC for the first time as 2004. And the answer is a resounding. Nope. The SEC set a record with 87 draft picks.

Yeah. I didn't, I didn't see the record coming, did you? No, but yeah, the Big Ten, which has two more schools, had 68. Now, before you consider this a victory lap for the SEC, we got to talk about reasons, factors, because there's some things that the SEC people should point out about this and note about this. And there's some things that should make them worry about this.

Yes, you should turn this into an SEC person's guide into arguing why your conference is the best while not opening yourself up to getting cross hit in a way that you would fall down to the mat. So like it is an interesting dynamic. And you know what I thought of? The first thing I thought of, Andy, when you sent the numbers, because you sent the numbers very quickly after the draft was over, you were on it, was the same exact feeling I got watching Ohio State get 11 players

drafted and then losing early this year. It's like, what the hell happened? You know, like, that's what that's the number one because like I, so like starting here, Andy, do you think that the SEC is still top? to bottom the toughest conference. Top to bottom, yes. Okay. So that's, if you're the SEC person, if you're an SEC honk and you want to defend

the conference, you start there. You start there. Because that part is true. The SEC had the most teams with the most players drafted. And so the SEC had 13 teams of the 16 with three or more. draft picks. The Big Ten only had nine of 18 with three or more. Here's where they get closer, though. The SEC had eight teams with six or more players drafted. The Big Ten had seven with six or more players drafted. So what does this tell us? It tells us that when the SEC coaches are like,

hey, the talent top to bottom in this league is better, the week-to-week grind is tougher in this league. They're telling the truth. They're right. So then you think that the draft numbers here, also prop up the argument that the SEC strength of schedule is superior to. Agreed. You're playing tougher teams. But there's a negative in there for the SEC, and we're going to get to that in a second. But I will say with the Big Ten, the top of the Big Ten and the top of the SEC look the same. And that is why the Big Ten is now competing for national championships and winning national championships.

Because they're producing the teams at the top that they need to produce in greater numbers. than they were. Where the Big Ten, ultimately, if it wants to surpass the SEC and draft picks, the bottom half of the Big Ten has to care as much as the bottom half of the SEC cares. And if they do, because they got the money, like we're talking about Minnesota, we're talking about Wisconsin, we're talking about those schools. If they do that, you will see these numbers equalize, but you will also see the Big Ten coaches at the top going, oh God, this schedule is.

gotten so much harder. There's so many random games we can lose now. Yeah. So here's a thing that I think is actually true. With Vanderbilt being really good last year and Mississippi State being much tougher version of itself than it's been in the past. If you throw up the Big Ten graphic in comparison. By the way, neither of those teams were among the SEC teams that had at least three players drafted. Right. Those are the those are the traditional bottom feeders. that were bottom feeders. CFP team Ole Miss only had two players drafted too.

In the Big Ten, you still have three or four teams at the bottom that are five teams, maybe even that are walkovers, right? Is Maryland a walkover? Yes, right? Yeah. For the most part. When I'm saying, when I say walkover, I mean a team like Michigan or Indiana not having an issue.

Yeah, they're going to be heavily favored. The chances of Maryland winning that game are pretty slim. Yes. Northwestern, though getting better, has been a walkover. over the last year. UCLA, I would put that in that category right now. Rutgers, Purdue, Purdue, and. Michigan State right now.

Michigan State right now. And I think Wisconsin's also been pretty bad the last two years, though they didn't pop up. And Minnesota, I wouldn't, even though they're not producing that, that draftable talent as heavily, they're winning more. Yeah. Now, the thing that gets tricky about this is because there are two extra teams, you know, there are schedules where you don't have the benefit of playing three of those five. So you still have to play the bulk of the really good teams. And right, this is, this is what's going on with Ohio State this year. This is what's going on with USC this year. They got, I'm talking about the 26th schedule. They got a much harder draw.

Penn State got the easy draw. And it'll, it'll show up. It makes a difference. I, my theory, and I've said this since the dawn of NIL, is that the Big Ten and the SEC will eventually equalize on this front. that the schools at the bottom of the Big Ten will care as much because they have as much or more money, and they will spend it, and the roster talent will equalize. And you would think that Indiana winning the national championship

would light a fire under the asses of every team that has felt hopeless. There's been no team in college football that felt more hopeless than Indiana football, and they just won the national championship. So if I'm a Purdue booster, who's had very good quarterbacks and really good seasons in the past, I would light a fire under my ass. If I were a Northwestern booster, although I understand that...

You've built a really nice stadium. I spent a lot of money. Academics is also part of it. I would be looking at Vanderbilt and going, what the hell? You know, like I feel like these new flare-ups from non-traditional programs should be the catalyst for change. And let me tell you,

I'm sure Indiana and all the money that it's spent on its team and on its coach, probably got a pretty good ROI on those investments because it's fun to be an Indiana fan. They've changed their football program, and I'm assuming that there will be enrollment benefits when it comes to who wants to go to college there. Because didn't they say that Nick Saban was like the best investment in the history of Alabama football? You know that. Of course.

Yeah. You're the one who always says it. Yeah. If you talk about the basically three and a half hour infomercial for the University of Alabama that appeared every Saturday. And sometimes six and a half hours if they had game day there that day, Like how many out of state students who wouldn't have considered Alabama before were now paying full tuition at Alabama? Do you think the full academic people out there, the administrators and the top level people at universities that are all academia and non, not football, appreciate that people choose where to go to college because of football? Depends on what school they work.

I think people who work at large state schools understand that. like I have friends that went to Bama because they were good at football. That was the reason they went. So like I think that it'll be interesting to see how that changes. Now, Andy, I was anticipating that the SEC would still have the most, but that the gap would be closing. I was not anticipating that they would set a record. Yeah, the difference last year was only seven.

The SEC only had seven more than the Big Ten. I thought this year the SEC would be barely ahead or even with the Big Ten in like the same neighborhood and that's not what happened, which brings me to the million dollar question nine minutes into the show. Does the SEC have a coaching problem? Yes. And we don't have to debate that. The SEC schools have already admitted that. Five SEC schools fired their coaches. Those teams where the coaches got fired combined for 27 draft picks. LSU had seven players drafted. They fired Brian Kelly.

Florida had seven players drafted. They fired Billy Napier. Auburn had five players drafted. They fired Hugh Freeze. Arkansas had four players drafted. They fired Sam Pittman. Kentucky had four players drafted. They fired Mark Stoops.

That is an admission that there was a coaching problem. How many coaches did we talk to last year about Florida? Like Mario Cristobal said it. I think Mike Elko said it. I know Sark said it. Florida beat them. But that played Florida and were like, they had some dudes. Yeah. Yeah, they also even fired their coach. And then Auburn lost a player that's probably probably going to be a top 15 pick next year who wasn't even selected. And I'm sure there's

other examples like Jaden Baugh is going to get drafted. Like there's a bunch of players that were on those teams that weren't even in the draft this year that are draftable players. So like, yeah. So the answer to your question is absolutely yes, the SEC. Now, those schools hope that it doesn't have a coaching problem anymore because they fixed it. But it's interesting. So let's drill down into the schools. Four of those five coaches who were fired have have something in common. They were all older. They're all part of a generation that is phasing out. Billion Napier is the only outlier there. He was younger and he was probably a case of leveled up and was not prepared for the level up. But

Brian Kelly, Mark Stoops, Sam Pittman, you know, Hugh Freeze, those were all guys. Maybe their time had passed. Maybe the new era wasn't for them. And then what did you see in the replacements of those coaches? A bunch of youth.

Yes. Yes. Very young coaches. Also, I did mention earlier, Ole Miss, two draft picks, went to the playoff, went to the semifinals. LSU took the coach from that team. Is it possible

Lane Kiffin's going to have a lot more talent than he's used to? Yeah. Yeah. So, also, Ole Miss is going to have a bunch of players

drafted from this year's team. Yeah, Ole Miss is going to have a bunch of players drafted from this year's team and Olez is going to have a lot of departures who left their team

get drafted for LSU next year. Right. So, like, it's because like Princewell, Uman Mielan Mielan, is going to be a first round pick, right? Like, that's... He's a first round pick, but he's going to be picked.

I looked at, I have the sickness of looking at all the early, way too early for next year. And Prince Well was in all of them. So people like them. Yeah, there's a lot of I heard of that person. The point doesn't change. He's really good. Yeah.

So, like, yeah, this is not the result that I was looking for or anticipating, I should say. But it does make sense. because the SDC does have more teams still, despite having two less than the Big Ten that actually care about playing football, not just well, but at the highest level. When you look at the Big Ten chart in comparison to the SEC, every single team,

but maybe one or two in the SEC wants to win the national championship, I'm not sure you can make the case that UCLA wants to win the championship, though they just made a really good coaching higher and maybe that'll change. Does Rutgers want to win the championship? Does Purdue want to win the championship? Does Northwestern or Maryland want to win the championship? Is Michigan State really serious about winning a national title? Is Illinois?

Maybe they're getting better. They're getting closer. So I think you need to have to have some incremental improvements from some of these programs. But I think that by and large, from top to bottom, the SEC, takes winning at the highest level more seriously. It's not just caring about football. It's carrying to the highest degree. Right.

And not just the ones who actually have a chance to win. the ones who we historically don't think have a chance to win at all still care deeply. Like, ask an Arkansas fan how they feel about all this stuff. Yeah. They don't want to be bottom fourth of the SEC. They do not expect to be that. They expect to be top half. Yeah, at least once every four years.

You know, you have a good run. And let's look at the big 10. Penn State fired James Franklin. They had eight players drafted. But, and then Michigan. Michigan fired Shroom War for reasons had nothing to with football. Michigan won nine games. So Ohio State, Ryan Day, Indiana, Kurt Signetti, Oregon, Dan Lannning, Washington, Jedfish, Iowa, Kirk Ferrence.

Who, by the way, is like one of the old timers that's kind of hanging on still. Yeah, but he's figured out. He's figured out how to win, you know, about the same clip in this new era. I think he deserves credit for that. I do too. I do too. but these are these are all really good coaches and let me ask you and we we maybe we'll do this we usually do it every offseason maybe we stole it from bruce feldman maybe we didn't but sue me uh

doing our our coaching rankings list and i wonder obviously kirby smart and kurt signetti are probably one a and one b i don't know which order you would draft them in or if you had to rank them i think you might even put kurt number one problem but then it might be a run of big ten coaches until you get to the next SEC coach, right? I don't know. Maybe Lane Kiffin gets into the top five, but if you're doing it merit-based or championships or, you know, playoff wins,

I don't know that you could do that yet. You might be like four of the top six coaches in the country are from the Big Ten. And two are from the SEC. Now, that might change. I think that we've talked about it on the show, the youth movement into these big jobs. At least one of these new SEC guys is going to hit

and probably a couple. And it's going to be cool, and I can't wait to see which one it is. But, you know, I look at the SEC and I think I see a lot of solid coaches, although Steve Sarkesian might also be in the top six. I forgot about him.

Well, what do we think of Mike Elko? I mean, he certainly made them better at Texas A&M. Mike Elko, Josh Heiple, Shane Beamer, although he's last year. Where do you put Venables here?

Venables. They have a lot of guys that I think would be in the top 15. But the Big Ten probably has more Tier A proven at the moment. Well, the Atlantic is the same thing. We're talking about the difference between the top and the rest. And the Big Ten is better at the top. And the FCC is better among the rest. And this is the fundamental argument that they keep having when it comes to

playoff selection. So, and I don't know that there's an answer to that other than the rosters equalize, the market finds this level. Our friend David Hale from ESPN had a really interesting set of numbers

that he put out. He basically figured out how many draft picks each conference is getting credit for who started somewhere else and then wound up in that conference as their last stop.

So the SEC was plus 33 in that stat. the big 10 was second plus 12 the big 12 also tied for second at plus 12 the acc was neutral by the way so the ACC is getting pillaged as much as it's pillaging yeah and then the group of six conferences

minus 23 fcdsd2 NAAa minus 17 and that's what you would expect right the bigger the fish the but hey shout up to the big 12 though we're going to get back to the big 10 but shout out to the Big 12 for giving. A lot.

I mean, a lot of that's Texas Tech, but it's not just Texas Tech. Yeah. But the SEC taking that many more. And so the question is, will the SEC continue doing that? Because this is purely, that's purely market driven. Yeah. The SEC taking that, getting that many more, does that mean they will keep doing that? Or does that mean, what if, say, remember we talked about Wisconsin, people were telling us,

Wisconsin is giving more competitive offers in the portal during this past portal cycle than they ever had before. Like, does that mean that's going to change over the next couple of years where there's going to be more Big Ten schools that get those guys and that number. But I was, I was actually semi-shocked to see that. I was too. I thought that the Big Ten would be number one in the most transferred in because that was- Almost because of Indiana alone. Well, I just thought they would be because that's the trend. that's changing. What's specifically changing about college football right now is that the Big

10 is getting in more high level transfers. The talent in the SEC, they have this advantage and the reason why they have this incredible 20-year streak of having the most players drafted is traditionally speaking, the best players in the country are in that area of the country from a high school level. So my thought process was that these players are going to SEC schools out of high school. school and maybe finishing their careers at Illinois and at other places in the Big Ten that they didn't traditionally end their careers at. And I thought that the Big Ten would be plus 30 something, and the SEC would be plus 17 something, and that they would still be behind because the amount of talent that's coming out of high school into the SEC has always been greater. If the Big Ten doesn't

win in this chart, this is the chart here that's going to decide whether the Big Ten ever gets the most draft picks. Right. And I'm surprised at this case. Well, and, and, and, and, probably they just need to spend a little more money. And there's two buckets here. There's the financial bucket and the evaluation bucket. You can make the case that maybe the SEC coaches did a better job of evaluating the conferences that are at the bottom half of this chart, the group of five conferences and the FCS and all that.

But eventually, if Northwestern and Minnesota and Maryland and all these other teams starts spending more and then that chart flips, that's when the actual sport flips. So maybe we are maybe I'm like I'm willing to maybe budge a little bit on this idea that the big the big 10 from a data standpoint is not as far along as I thought they were. I that that's what I was thinking. I thought they'd be I thought that the player gap would close by now. For sure. And maybe we're being fooled by and maybe we're being fooled by the top right now. Maybe the big 10 has more national championship contenders in the moment, which is fooling us into thinking that. Well, there's no denying they're producing better teams or more good teams at the top than they were before.

No denying that. Yeah. But I thought this was revelatory and not what I would have to. If you would have asked me before the draft started to draw these charts based on my best guesses, they would not look like this. No. And I'm glad for the data, glad to have it, because it helps us figure out where the sport is and what's happening. How to evaluate the sport in what's happening in a year round should be driven by charts like this. Yeah.

Yeah. And this is why I say this about the NFL draft. I care more about this because no one's incentivized by how much they love a team or a conference. They're only incentivized by, is this player a fit for my NFL organization? Can we win with this guy? No, the one question I do have, and I think the Big Ten probably has a similar. advantage is if you are at the end of your chart or you're uh sorry you're bored and you're in the sixth round and you want a corner and one corner played at lSU and one corner played at boston college

and they have very similar tape um do you go with the guy who went to lSU just because of what he goes through every day like i think that there is a little bit of that at the end but for the most part um yes their paychecks and their livelihoods are based on picking the right player It doesn't matter whether they're brown, green, orange, if they're from Florida or they're from Tennessee or from Mars. It doesn't matter. If you don't pick the right player, you're going to get fired. So I think this is the purest data that we get. And obviously, I am a huge proponent and will always be a huge proponent for how evaluations are done at the high school level.

I always had this feeling while I was at the athletic. I had a lot of respect for the way that we evaluate. Now certainly at On 3, I understand it's a cornerstone piece of our business. but they do a good job. I think I saw the stats somewhere that eight or nine of the first round picks were five-star players again. And if you think about the math on that, they're what, like 30 to 35, five stars per class in a given year and like

500 three stars and they still have a third of the first round. Like obviously they're evaluating. No, there's way more than 500 three stars. Yeah, there's a thousand for three stars. No, there's almost thousands. Yeah, it's more, it's closer to 2,000. Right. Sorry, there's 304 stars.

ish. Yeah. But the fact that a third of the first round almost is five star players knows that they know how to evaluate guys. But it's the, I think that what makes a difference in the winning aspect, Andy, is who's got the left guard who's getting picked in the fifth round? You know what I mean? Like those are the guys that maybe we don't talk about on the show that. Oh, those guys are critically important. It's funny because in the draft discourse, we don't talk much about guys that go in the fifth and sixth round.

those people are incredibly valuable to college football teams, incredibly valuable. It's a perfect segue, Andy, to the next topic, which is how do you build your college team and NFL draft stuff is important to building a good college team? And the poster child for this is Diego Pavia. Diego Pavia, the first undrafted Heisman finalist since 2014, Jordan Lynch, the quarterback at Northern Illinois.

was the last one not drafted for similar reasons. And so Diego Pavia is going to go to a mini camp with the Ravens next week, and we'll see what happens. But he didn't get picked at all. And this was a guy who won at two places, New Mexico State and Vanderbilt, that nobody wins. Nobody. But I think most people who watch college football and watch the NFL,

and I'm not talking about people who just dislike Diego Pavia because of his personality. I'm talking about people who watch both sports and can appreciate the greatness of a really good college football player. Also, probably would doubt that he's going to be successful in the NFL because of physical factors. I'd build my team around that guy. In the NFL? No, no, in college, but not in the NFL. Yes, correct. In college, you didn't understand everybody piling on the guy.

Like, did we go into the draft anticipating he was going to get picked? I never thought that was the case. Now, I know he, he's a very eccentric personality and at the combine or, or at the senior bowl, or maybe both. Did he go to the combine? I can't remember. But at the senior ball, he was like, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, he's talking the talk because he's a very confident man.

And like, that's the way he's always carried himself. Yeah, he said, he said something we laughed at last year, or two years ago, is we're going to win at Vanderbilt. And guess what? They did. Yeah. So, but I didn't understand, A, I thought that people liked. Diego Pavia. I was very, very...

Oh, no, no. He turned off a lot of people after the Heisman. Because of the way that he acted in the night of the Heisman. Yeah. Yeah. And there were already people who didn't like him. Yeah. Some people don't like outspoken people. I had no problem with Diego Pavia personality-wise.

Well, I had no reference, too, of how much that changed the night of the Heisman. I thought people were like, I love watching him play. He made Vanderbilt awesome. He's a cool underdog. He had, he had, had his share of haters before that too. Yeah.

But this, again, that's not the problem. And not college football's problem to develop more quarterbacks that the NFL wants, because they were bitching about this being a weak quarterback class. And again, not college football's problem. It's not their job to make them ready for you, the NFL coaches. And it's funny because I saw somebody, Steve Godfrey, my co-host at the college football Inquirer, Yahoo, tweeted about this and said, you know, it's not the not college football's problem.

And somebody quote tweeted and said, you know, most hiring managers in the professional ranks do expect people to come with the skills ready when they come out of college. And like, yeah, that's sort of true. But the problem here is NFL coaches and college coaches have the same job and essentially get paid the same money and have the same pressure. And so you are going to win in whatever way you need to win in college football. It is not your responsibility necessarily to. It will not help you ultimately if you make more draft picks but lose more games.

Ask Billy Napier how that worked out. So there's- Clark Lee is still employed and got a raise because he won with the guy who didn't get drafted. Well, this is a two-pronged thing because I also, tweeted something similar to that same tweet that Godfrey did. And I didn't know that he did it. But we agree on this. It's like on one hand, it's not college football's burden to be the minor league system for the NFL.

But on the other hand, the more NFL ready players you have on your team typically means the better you are. So there is a needle to throw. It also helps you recruit. Like there are incentives. But a lot of ways to do it that way. I wanted to make a list of players. And maybe we won't do this today or maybe we won't do it at all because it's kind of mean, which are the 10 best players in college football that are going to change their program,

but not sniff the NFL. And that's kind of hard to do because sometimes people will look at someone's size or stature and kind of misread it. And who knows, maybe Diego Pavia will be a starting NFL quarterback one day and we'll all look stupid in this clip. I mean, Max Brosmer started games in the NFL last year. It's entirely possible. Diego Pavia makes a team and winds up playing in the NFL. Yes. But if I am Vanderbilt,

you might look back in five years if this trajectory continues, and you continue to be a 9-10 win team, that Diego Pavia is the reason this was all possible. And it doesn't matter that he wasn't drafted. And it doesn't matter if he never sniffed a down in the NFL. There are dog college players that are really, really good at that level that help you win. And I don't think a coach in the college ranks should ever consider how much this certain

player is going to be developed for the NFL if that person fits their scheme, their culture, and is a lightning rod. Diego Pavia, I think you could make the case, did more for Vanderbilt in the time that he was there than any player in the top 10 of the NFL drafted for their programs. Which is that fair? It brings up an interesting point. Because until five years ago, you didn't get any profit off that if you were the player. You got the same as the backup left guard.

Yeah, like I saw people tweeting about Pavia because he had a draft setup. Did you see that he had a draft set up with every hat? Yeah, yeah. And somebody retweeted that and like said, you forgot one and it was a DoorDash hat. And I was like, bro, that guy made more money than you've ever had already. Exactly. Are you like you forgot that like he's already been more successful in life than the person who did the DoorDash tweet? It's like I think that people forget that like being a really good player in college is very lucrative.

Luke is everyone in DoorDash. Which which brings us to something very interesting that Andrew Brandt, the former GM of the Packers said. So he does a podcast called Business Sports and he was talking about NIL's effect on the draft. So Diego Pavia is an example of this. There's probably, and there are better examples of this with guys that are, that do have the physical traits, the NFL craves who are just choosing not to go to the NFL yet, who are choosing to stay in college. Dante Moore is an example of this.

If there's no NIL, I doubt Dante Moore makes the decision that he made. He probably goes to the draft and, you know, lets the chips fall. But now he's going to make good money in Oregon and then go to the draft next. year. So here's what Andrew Brent said about NIL and what it's doing to the draft. I talked to an NFL scout last week. And I just, I think he told me the same thing last year, but last year it was like rounds six and seven. Now it's rounds four through seven. What do I mean? Last year, round six through seven wiped out from NIL. This year, rounds four through seven wiped out from NIL.

So as you watch the draft or hear about the draft on Saturday, rounds 4 through 7, know that NFL scouts are looking at a crop of players that is weakened significantly by NIL. In other words, a lot of the players that would be fourth to seventh round picks have chosen to stay in school rather than go to the draft. A lot. And the reason is money. Think about what I'm saying and let that sink in. The reason is money in college versus the NFL.

If you're a low round NFL draft pick, get a bonus, a couple hundred thousand dollars in lowest rounds, maybe $400,000 in the four to $500,000 to fifth round. And then a salary if you make the team, which is nothing guaranteed. And if you're a low round pick, making the teams about a 50-50 proposition at the bottom of the draft. If you're a fourth round, sure, you're going to make the team, or certainly a third round. But players are choosing to go to college where they don't have to make the team.

That's already done. And they have relatively guaranteed earnings in NIL. So, yeah, it's going to keep happening too. Now, it will eventually sort itself out, Ari, because, first of all, the COVID-year, plus NIL has changed the math on NFL decisions over the last six years. So guys who would have only gone to college for three years before they went to the NFL are now staying four and five years. But then once we get to that point, they have to leave eventually. Right, exactly.

There might be a year or two where that is the case, but I think once we catch up, Yeah, there's going to be probably two more drafts like this. Yeah, but Andy, this is, I don't know what Godfrey retweeted or what you were referring to. This is the clip that I retweeted and I retweeted this clip and I said, this is not

college football's issue. Do you agree with that sentiment? Because I think that people view, 100% people, people view took that clip and we're like, yeah, we really have to get a hold of the eligibility thing. Why is everybody playing for six, seven years? They do need to get a hold of the eligibility thing for other reasons.

That's not, there aren't enough eighth year players in college football to fill out the back three rounds of the NFL draft. And how many eighth year players are getting drafted? Like, you're an eighth year player because you had like four torn ACLs. And you're probably never going to be a pro and you want to squeeze every last dime out of being a college player before you've got to go actually work at Thorndash. Like that's the thing. So, you know, my question that I have and I don't know what it would be and maybe there's nothing. But if the NFL is bent out of shape about there not being enough high quality players in the fourth through seven rounds. Now, fourth round seemed pretty early.

There was some really good players that were driving. I was just saying, I looked at the fourth round. There's some good players. Like Keonti Scott to the bucks in the fourth round. Like, you're doing fine bucks. The best corners. You're doing all right. Yeah.

So, but is there anything that the NFL can do? because if the NFL is going to use college football as an expectation for developing their – because, like, think about it, they get a whole farm system. What I always say on this show? You can't solve every problem with money, but you can solve most of them. So what can the NFL do? They won't do it. They can increase their salary pool for those rounds?

Yeah, increase the rookie salary structure. That's it. But you know who votes on that? You know who decides that? The people paying the checks? No, the current NFL players. Oh. The NFL PA would have to agree to that.

And current NFL players are never going to agree to that. Outside of paying a fourth round pick, more money, is there anything that the NFL can do for college football that incentivizes the developmental aspect of this in a way that are doing. There's nothing out there, right? No, because college coaches are under the same pressure to win as NFL coaches. If they don't win, they're fired, just like NFL coaches. And in a lot of cases, they make the same or more money than NFL coaches. Like position coaches in college, at certain positions, make more money than their NFL counterparts. They are under more pressure.

Do you know the answer? How much did John Harbaugh got paid? You know, like, annually? He's making more than probably any college football head coach. Okay. So he had lots of suitors. Okay. Because I don't even know what the NFL salary structure is, but are there $2 million coordinators in the NFL? There are.

Okay. I mean, Chip Kelly was when he was a grader's. He got four and a half, didn't he? He got more than that. He was getting, yeah, and he was getting paid more than any college coordinator at that point. So the high end of the NFL is bigger than college football, but the mid- range in the low is almost exactly like the top into college football. Yeah.

So you have to, and I always talk about this conversation I have with Davos-Sweeney. I can't remember exactly what year it was, but it was after he'd hired Chad Morris the first time to run his offense, where he'd had to undergo a major philosophical shift. And he basically, he told me about how it used to drive him crazy, the quarterbacks coming out of high school at the time couldn't take a snap from under center. And he had to spend all these time teaching them to take a, snap from under center. And then he's finally like, why do I do this? I can run an offense that doesn't have to teach them that and they can just plug in and play. Yeah. And guess what?

It worked because his next two quarterbacks were Deshawn Watson and Trevor Lawrence and they both won national titles. Yes. And there is a so many players that actually get drafted and don't do anything in the league that it blows my mind. And I'd say about this all the time. I look over to the right of these cards that are sitting on my, on my desk here of just random years that were all awesome in college. And it's like they aren't doing anything in the pros. And there are a lot of players that aren't drafted at all that were really good in college that were never going to be drafted and never play in the pros. And I think like some of the best players that I've ever covered in my life. I always go back to Braxton Miller when I talk about

this. Yeah. You go back and watch Braxton Miller's highlight tape from college. like that is exactly what it was like to cover him every single day, like watching him make people fall to the ground. That guy was never in the NFL for anything. And I would build my team around Braxton Miller. In college, yeah, absolutely. So maybe there aren't a lot of players like Diego Pavia. Maybe Diego Pavia is an exception where you have a lightning rod,

Spunky, is that a good word? A person who's probably a really good word, yeah. elusive player who is just electric and he was really, really good in his intermediate passing game. I think I read somewhere that he was completing more than 85% of his like passes in between six and 14 yards. And they like just did it that way. Maybe there aren't a lot of those guys.

But if I don't think there are. I think most of the guys who are dominant in college football are dominant in part because they have the same traits that make them incredibly valuable to the NFL. But there are outliers. There are Diego Pavia's. There are Braxton Millers. There are Tim Tebow's. If I were Alabama's coach, if Diego Pavia was available to me, I would take that kid at

Mama. I would take that kid at Georgia, at Ohio State. It doesn't matter. But for the same reason the NFL didn't take him, they didn't take him. Because the chances of that person being what he became are slim. Yeah. They're just working off probability. which then maybe makes it 5% more likely that he will catch on in the NFL.

Yeah. Because he's already... The one thing I will say to Andrew Brant's argument that I think actually the NFL will probably have a better time evaluating in the NIL era. Remember the question of do you love football? Because they were always worried about if we give you all this money, will you still care enough to work? Yeah.

And there were plenty of players who there were examples of them getting the NFL, got paid and just quit working. Well, now you're going to know already who will work whether they're getting money or not. Like the dudes who are getting paid, like Jeremiah Smith, good example, getting paid a fortune already, working his ass off still.

It hasn't changed a bit on that front. And what about the other side of the coin of this too? If you have a bunch of players who would have been fourth to seventh round picks that came back to college and developed for another year, aren't you going to get more reliable taped to not my more business. Yeah, they don't want 24-year-old rookies, though.

That's the other thing. That's the part they're not saying. They just, they've got this whole system figured out. And it's like, okay, well, when at this age, you know, we don't want to give anybody a second contract if they're older than this age. Well, yeah, then they're all going to change the math on it, guys. Like, you're going to have to because you're going to get 24-year-old rookies now. Yeah.

And how many players, like, that's the thing I don't understand about that. If you're a fifth-year player, shouldn't you only be 22 or 23? 53. But remember, a lot of parents will hold the kids, either hold the kids back grade or not put them in school at the first possible chance and put them in school the following year just to make sure they get a chance to be bigger. And so, like, it's not. And you get to hold up your baby for one extra year. We're having this debate in my house right now. Live is the, on her birthday is September 29th, as you wouldn't ever know. I was the youngest kid in my class. hated it. I was 17 when I started college. Me too. 17 is a walk-on football player, not ideal. I will tell you.

My son is one of the oldest kids in his class. You decided to hold it. That's happening with Live right now, and we're making the decision. We had a long conversation about it, and I made it selfish decision because I want her in my house for another year. Like, I don't want her to leave.

I want to extend my time with her. Yeah. Her having the exact same birthday as me, I can tell you, I think you made the right decision. She's going to be the oldest kid in the classes. And she's a girl. So we wanted her to be the oldest. She probably actually, with her birthday, she probably won't be the oldest. But there'll probably be some August birthday that's a little bit older than her.

But yeah, she'll be one of the older ones. Guys, this has nothing to do with show girls coming out my senior year of high school, two weeks before I turned 17. and all my friends going to see Jesse Spano naked and I couldn't go. That sucks. It has nothing to do with that. Having a summer birthday sucked.

Because I'm July 20th. So I kind of fell into the same. I was 17 when I went to college. So if I would have been a five-star prospect, even if I stayed for four or five years, I would have been 22. Yeah, and you see it sometimes. Like Ryan Williams,

like some people can just come in and be ready and be good to go. Wasn't Jeremiah Smith 17 when he showed up? I cannot remember. I thought he was. And they kept saying this kid's 17. years old. Was that like a running joke? I thought he was.

I know Ryan Williams was. But also those freaks too a lot of times aren't in college for five years. That's not, yeah, that's not your normal person. And look, I'll say that there's a lot of people

now that are doing this for academic reasons. You know, having their kid repeat eighth grade so that they're more academically prepared when they go to high school to try to get them into an Ivy League school, that sort of thing. It's not just football.

We used to call it the quarterback redshirt and we don't call it that anymore. You could do eighth grade twice if you want to. Yeah. Who's going to stop you? The public school system? I don't know. I didn't even know that was an option.

Put a minute a private school for eighth grade. How are you going to stop them? I've never thought about this. And that has never even occurred to me as a human being. That's because you're not raising a quarterback, Ari. Yeah. I thought that people who repeated grades had to because they weren't proficient enough to advance. I didn't know that there were people.

people yeah okay i didn't know there were people that were like getting straight aes that did it again just run it back a year but yeah i don't know yeah no i mean i guess if you want it used to be just for sports now people are doing it for academics too i guess if you want your son or daughter to get an academic scholarship having them a year older and you know their brain developing one more year you get a higher grades in high school and then you get a better GPA which then i guess i mean i guess that makes sense yeah so uh jeremiah smith was a freshman in 2000 24, correct? Yes.

Okay, now he turned, he turned to 19 in November of his freshman year. Oh, okay. So he's one of the, on the older. William's the one that everyone kept saying he's 17. That's what I said. Yeah, you're right. I got confused. I'm an idiot.

All right. Hey, one more draft related note, and then we'll get to a spring game situation. But Clemson, nine players drafted, tied for the lead in the A, with Miami with nine NFL draft picks. Listen, Davosweeney has said last year was a failure of coaching, but watching it happen, watching the draft unfold,

just makes you matter that it went down this way. Andy, I was actually kind of, we took a lot of shit from people for picking Clemson to win the ACC and be a playoff national championship contender at this time last year. Correct.

Guys, guys, just a simple. analysis, if you would have told me, it doesn't matter who you are, what conference you're in, or what school colors you are, or your history. If you tell me a school was going to have nine players taken in next year's draft, that would be a automatic top 15 team for me in the offseason range. Do we want to, can I name the teams that had at least nine? Sure. Texas A&M had 10 college football playoff team. Alabama had 10 college football playoff team. That's it from the SEC. Ohio State had 11

college football playoff team. National champion Indiana only had eight. Miami had nine played for the national title. Clemson had nine. Texas Tech had nine. Conference champion college football playoff team. That's it. That's all of them. Did you cut the

the Plice tweet? Because I thought it was so funny. I don't know. So Plies. If you don't remember Plies, there's a song called Busset Baby Part 2. he's he's from uh southwest floor i believe fort meyers yeah played in high it was a good high school football player but i think he played with jamie german the miami receiver uh in high school uh he's also a he's been a seven on seven coach so he understands

how clemson had all this talent was sorry as hell that's what pauses out of the draft it's just like no profanity it's just like a funny way of saying it it's like that is true and like here's the way if you haven't listened to busted baby part two great janet jackson sample. Just thank you later. It's so confusing to me, Andy, is what has made Dabo such a great coach over the years is his ability to identify players, develop them, and get and make them into these draft picks.

He's always been very good at cultivating talent and then coaching that talent to perform. Like, we forget, like, the run that they went on. No, we don't. We highlight the run that they went on from 2016 to 19. Is it possible though if they're still as good at the top end of their recruiting and developing as they used to be, but not in the middle? Well, I don't know, but. If you don't have Brent Venables going to Kansas to get Isaiah Simmons for you anymore. I thought about this as I was looking through the-

But yeah, I know, but behind those nine, what did it look like? I don't know. Was it bad? I mean, it must have been. But, I mean, they have guy, like Sammy Brown's going to get drafted probably if he wants to go out next year. They have guys still. And Sammy Brown was a big time recruit too. But you do wonder if the depth is what it used to be and because of their unwillingness to use the transfer portal for as long as they were now,

they're more willing now to use the transfer portal. But because of that, did they sacrifice depth? But this is what the thing that's confusing. If you remember, you know the reason why I'm, here. You might not remember this, but I do. You had me on the Andy Staples show once to talk about recruiting. And I think I was still even on the Ohio State beat at the time. But, you know, Mr. Stars Matter. I was obsessed with the rankings. I was obsessed with where teams stood and the blue chip ratio and all that stuff. And I said on your show, I think maybe the first time you ever had

me on, mark my words, Clemson is not going to be good in the future because there's no possible way a coach could sustain their level of recruiting to be this peak dominant when you have Georgia and Alabama and teams in that region. This is, I was proven correct. But this isn't the hypothesis being. Right. If I had told you, Ari, in the first three rounds of the 2026 draft, Clemson will have five players selected, two first rounders, two second rounders.

Holy shit, he's doing it still. Yeah. He'd be like, why? Did Dabba win the ACC the year before? Like, did he play for national title? What would happen? I thought that the reason, like, I was giving them crap for not being as, as lethal in the portal as they should be, because I thought that that would stop them from having nine draft picks.

Like, they still got there. And that was the thing that's so confusing. Like this, a team with nine draft picks, even if the middle to lower tier part of it is, because how many players on your roster in a given year, actually impact the games. Would you say 35 to 40 at most? Yeah. Yeah. So even even if one quarter of those 40 players were drafted, that's a huge number. Oh and by the way, are you? So there's seven rounds in the draft. Do you know where the lowest drafted Clemson player went? Was it the fifth round, I think? It was the fifth round. Adam Randall went with 174 overall. So not only were these nine players drafted.

It wasn't like they had all of these nine players, which is why it's so confusing. All the things that we were negging Davo for now it's just like what the hell is going on inside the building? Like because like that that is the thing that because like a year ago at this time I wrote a column about Clemson, I think it was off of his appearance on our show of saying, is this Davo Sweeney's opportunity to have the last laugh? Because he finally has the players to do this. Is he going to show you the old match? Which again, if we just gave you what happened in the draft and didn't tell you what happened last season,

it just made you guess. Like, if we played you that Davosweeney interview and your mind was erased from what happened last season. So we played that Davoswini interview from last summer and you didn't know what happened during the season and we just handed you these draft stats. You'd be like, oh my God, Clemson won the national title.

Yeah. I think there's one. one other thing that we have to take into account with Clemson. And I'm going to look this up before I say it. But at this time last year, we also were projecting that Clemson would have maybe four first round picks. Obviously, there was a misfire at quarterback. So that's a huge deal.

Like if you go from anticipating you having a first round quarterback, and what was he taken in the third or fourth round by the Jeff? Here's in the fourth round. And like T.J. Parker was the third pick of the second round. So I'm sure he was discussed as a potential first round pick by multiple teams. But they only had two, and that's not bad. But I thought they had a chance to have four top end players. And I thought Peter Woods would frankly be drafted higher than he was.

So did all the draftics, by the way. Yeah. You saw Peter Woods in the top half of the first round. He ended up going 29th. So maybe there's something to it there. But like if I'm a Clemson fan, are you just like scared shitless? like about this because like that's the thing is get if the if the problem with your program is you're not getting enough good players that's a massive problem but in the nil era can be

fixed with the fatter checkbook if the problem is we have really good players but we're not winning that makes it worse it's a much bigger problem correct so i was perusing the megaboard at on three and tiger illustrated clemson site buddy lee 101 511 14 had a thread called coaching staff. And he said, we had five guys picked in the top 71 of the NFL draft and went seven and six last year. If that doesn't scream piss poor coaching,

I don't know what does. They should all donate last year's salary back because they stole their money last year. Still find it crazy that Davo has let it slip this far. And Chris Ard, the publisher of Tiger Illustrated, responded with a really thoughtful post and pointed out that Davo has admitted

the coaching was a failure last year. But the question is, can they fix it? Like, can they flip that? Well, the thing that sucks now is that they're going to have to try to fix it with better coaching without these great players. Now, I know Clemson will backfill, and they'll have good players. They've still got good players, but now the question is, do they have, like, relative to everybody else,

are they better or are they worse, talent-wise, last year. And I'd say probably worse, but I don't know. Like Tate Reynolds, the freshman quarterback, it sounds like they think he's the next thing. Whether he's the starter, day one is another question. It might still be Christopher Vizina. But I will say Davoswini has not been shy to go to a freshman at quarterback if he feels like he's got a really good one. Well, this is the secondary thing that I wanted to ask is if you have a quarterback, because this also happened with Drew Aller, if you have a quarterback who is in their third year or has been a mainstay but hasn't quite hit their second gear, they're anticipated potentially as high, high end reaching ceiling

as first round pick, and then they end up getting drafted in the third, fourth, or fifth, how much can the misfire at quarterback torpedo your team? Well, and also, is it possible we need to do some research on this. This is because I don't want to make any definitive statements on this because I don't know the answer. Is it possible that if you're really good at quarterback, it's going to manifest itself sooner? And then if you haven't hit that by year,

by year three as the starter, then you're probably never going to. Before before you, we go into the research and you make any definitive statements, I'll just ask you that. I mean, Joe Burrow probably would tell you that that's not necessarily the truth. Joe Burrow was one. I think Troy Smith, though he wasn't a great pro,

is another one that comes to mind. This is a very good college quarterback, yes. But Troy Smith from sophomore junior year was a jump that I, like, there aren't a lot of jumps from first full year starting to, like, you kind of get it. How many players come to your mind? Producer Rivers mentions Jared Garantano at Tennessee as an example of the other side of this. But how many players would you put in the Joe Burr.

category that is pop into your head. Not many. There's more like Drew Aller where they kind of shown you what they were, and then that's what they were. That's what they were. If they're not, do you think that it's fair to say that a player is his peak form by the back half of his second year starting? I would say so.

At least his skill position. Because what Joe Burrow did is insane. Like, that's not a normal thing. Yeah. And also Joe Burrow. was competing against another first-round draft pick at Ohio State for the job. But also, no one ever talks about this. He wasn't great his first year at LSU.

Right. He was fine. He was pretty good, but not great. Then he took that hit by UCF in that bowl game. Yeah, it's just like a Spider-Man moment where it's like it just hit. Something in his brain changed. Yeah. And he never lost a college game again.

But, you know, it's very interesting. hypothesis, but I do think too that if you have nine draft picks, but a misfire at quarterback, that things could be very different for your team. And they were. But also, Clemson was dysfunctional. And it wasn't, I don't want to lay the whole thing on K. Klubnick. That wouldn't be fair. Like they, no, it's definitely not all on K K Klubnick shoulders. Yeah. It had nine draft picks, including K K Kovnik, eight other draft picks on this. And there are younger players who will be draft picks. Like, it's, on the highly paid coaches.

And Dabo has said that. But they have to be better because they probably aren't going to have the same talent relative to everybody else. So they're going to have to be coached a lot better this year to get better results. And that's quite a mandate, quite a mandate. Now, Ari, I want to switch from Clemson to a school that expects better than last year, but has been really good each of the last few years. Notre Dame held their spring game on Saturday.

There's, well, we got yelled at the last time we overanalyzed any Notre Dame Spring practice clip, so we're not going to do that. But we are going to play one clip for you from running back in E.S. Williams. It was in the postgame interview after the spring game. This is a team that you can tell they are expecting huge things this year. They are expecting to compete for national titles. and I like the attitude. So our friend Pete Sampson, who covers Notre Dame for the Athletic,

does an incredible job. He asks Ania Williams, who's one of the running backs who, remember he got hurt last year, before last season. So, and obviously, Jeremy, I love in Judarian Price two first roundbacks in dealing with that.

He's going to come in and probably people are like, whoa, where was he? He was always there. So, but this is a guy who's going to be very productive this year. Pete asked him after the game, what they need to do now to be ready for what this season will hold. I like the answer.

With everything that this team returns, what do you think the biggest challenges for you guys as a program, some are heading towards August? Ourselves. That would be one word answer, just ourselves. I think there's nothing in the way of this team besides ourselves. We just got to put our head down and work. We've got a long way to go, and it's going to be a long season.

So how do you prevent our team? ourselves from being a challenge. I think just playing together, playing as one. And really just execute executing the daily routine. You know, this game is what we make it. And we don't need to make it any bigger than what it is. Just go out there and have fun, play together and play fast. I like we don't need to make it any bigger than what it is because they are going to be just loaded down with expectations.

And Ari, I want to ask you this. Does the way last season ended increase the pressure on Notre Dame to get it done this season? I'm talking about they get left out of the playoff, they decide to skip the bowl game. It feels like the way that team voted to end just says, hey, we're coming back to win a national title.

This other stuff doesn't mean anything to us. Let's do this. You said, you answered your question for me because that's what I was going to say. I think declining the bull invitation to me was them saying this is bull crap. We are going to turn the page to the following year as fast as possible so that we can get back out onto the field and show everybody that we are the best program in the country and we're going to win the national title next year. Now, I think that this is a very interesting situation because of the way that last year ended. But I think that the pressure to perform at a high level this year and to make the playoff and maybe even advance into it is obviously made bigger by the fact that Marcus Freeman was an NFL head coaching candidate and that their schedule of things. Like there's no room.

Right. USC pulling out on them affects this too. Now, they added BYU on the road. So I think that'll help. But they are not going to probably benefit from their schedule. They need BYU and Miami, SMU. They need Syracuse to come back and be good again. They need Wisconsin to be good again. They need Michigan State to be good again.

But they also need to not slip up. And maybe it depends on how this schedule shakes out. Because we can hypothesize this all we want. it may be that it's weak and they need to go 11 and 1 or it may be that it's good enough that you can go 10 and 2. I don't think that Notre Dame wants to play around with 10 and 2 anymore. I wouldn't if I were them either. I think Notre Dame is the poster child for why you should never cancel

tough non-conference games. Which they didn't really have the option there. But I'm saying to everybody else, not Notre Dame. You're the poster child and the warning shot for anybody who thinks that they can just get by because you never know how your schedule is going to shape up. And maybe sometimes it might be too hard, but maybe sometimes that non-conference game, Miami, is the thing that gets you in.

So they have a ton of expectations. And Notre Dame, it was so funny, Andy. I wrote last year, and, you know, Ralph Russo at the Athletic also wrote something similar to that for a while there, Notre Dame became a more likable place than it's ever been before. I think Marcus Freeman is very likable. I think that their run two years ago to the national championship game was likable. And for the most hated program in college football,

for a time there really didn't feel like the evil enemy. And then last year when they backed out of the bowl game, they lost all of that goodwill. All the Notre Dame haters came back. And everybody came back out of the woodwork and everybody is piling on them again. So from that standpoint, and I don't know how much that has any impact on whether Notre Dame feels pressure internally or not. But their place in the pantheon of most hated teams, people are going into next year, oh, cry babies who didn't play the bowl game, weak schedule, returning all this talent. They're going to everybody's act, if you're not a Notre Dame fan, people are going to actively be rooting against you to fail.

in a way that didn't exist, I think even coming into this past year. And I think that is a dynamic that could have an impact for sure. I think that would be helpful, though, to be honest. Because I think, one, I think Marcus Freeman is really good at figuring out kind of the zeitgeist around his team and using that. I think you could definitely work an us against the world situation here. And I actually think that it would- perfectly justified doing it. Like, it wouldn't be faking it.

I think us against the world is so cliche, played out and stupid. And 90% of the time, but 90% of the time, it's not true. Yeah. I think in this instance, it might be true. Yeah. So very, very important season for Notre Dame. And I don't know if I'm, I'm never a national championship or bust person because bust to me is like, what does bust mean that you just go in the off season and try again the next year? But I think that this year is certainly playoff or abject failure.

without question. And then, of course, once they get there, they should be in a position to make a run and potentially win the national championship. So they're in a really good spot for how bad last year lost. And Andy, I don't know if they would have made the playoff last year.

Maybe they would have made it to the national title game or even what. I don't know how it would have gone. Well, and they've got a ton of talent too. We talk about draft numbers. Notre Dame had six guys drafted, including, as noted, two first round backs, your and I love, Ingenerian Price.

and the way that they've produced talent in the offensive line, the way they've produced talent at other positions. I mean, they've finally, like Marcus Freeman has really tapped into that and is using that and recruiting to make them deeper. And this is this deep, like, because we used to talk about the Brian Kelly teams, like they're starting 22 really good. If somebody get hurt, what happens? And we saw like during the national championship run,

they were dealing with injuries throughout that whole season, the run of the national title game a couple years ago. They dealt with injuries that whole season. and still manage to get to the final game. They're really deep. Crazy stat. Crazy stat for this weekend. You ready, Ari?

Yeah. So Eli Raredon gets picked in the draft this past weekend. Every Titan won at Notre Dame since 2004 has been drafted. That's a wild stat. That is a pretty wild stat. I'm looking at their, at St.BS's way too early draft because I'm a junkie. Okay. three defensive players in the first round for Notre Dame next year in this way too early mock draft.

And here's the other thing that might kind of tie into what we were already talking about earlier, Andy. They have a potential first round pick at quarterback who has already proven to be further along than Drew Aller and Kate Klubnick were. Yeah, CJ Carr, we don't, like, there's no question like, will he break through? He's broken through. He's in. He's here. So, you know, like they have a guy that they. know is a really high level player.

And having that piece of it, your quarterback, the heart and soul of your team on top of the incredibly defensive, a talented defensive unit. Andy, there's no reason why this team shouldn't be playing on the second to last weekend or the last day of the regular season. But I like the attitude of, you know, you're hearing Eas Williams say it, he's one of the leaders on this team and this is a veteran heavy team they've obviously been through a lot together we are this we are setting our own standard we are playing against our own standard that sounds like you know all those nick sabin teams that's what they said like that's the way you talk

when there's nobody on their schedule outside of miami that's going to be playing to their standards so they can't slip they got up they got a you can't have a weird michigan state loss on september 19th you know like you you got to get through some of these i mean god right Michigan State, Purdue, North Carolina, Stanford. I mean, the first half of their schedule, we don't know what Wisconsin. Wisconsin might be a lot better than we're giving them credit for next year. Yeah, and Pat Fitzgerald takes over at Michigan State.

We don't know what that's going to look like yet either. So we'll give them benefit of the doubt. But the back part is the more difficult part with BYU and Miami and SMU. And then we'll see with Syracuse. Because remember, if former fighting Irish quarterback Steve Angelly's healthy, Syracuse is actually not just decent, but good before he got hurt last year. And then they just fell off a cliff. But the back half could be somewhat challenging for them.

So that could be fun. But I just, I like the attitude. And I think you're right. I think the, you know, Marcus Freeman getting quartered by NFL teams, the way last season ended, all of that says this, there's a lot of pressure that's going to come to do it this year, to have to do it this year. Like this group, this is your last chance together, all that sort of thing. but I feel like they're handling it well. I like the way they're messaging this so far. And, you know, Marcus Freeman is one of those guys,

even after really bad situations. Like I was in his office two days after that Ohio State game where they had 10 guys on the field at the end. He still gives you a sense of reassurance that, hey, I've got this. I'm going to figure this out. And that was a difficult situation at the end of last year. We will find out how they, you know, we don't know if they handle it the right way or not.

We'll find out. Well, the thing about last year, too, is that it's going to be framed by what happens this year. Now you have. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't really matter how we feel about it or how they feel about it. What they do this year will determine how everybody judges it. But if they go out and win the national title this year, they'll be like, yeah, we didn't play because we wanted to turn the page.

It's brilliant. Yeah. Screw Pop-Tarts. Yeah. We're in for bigger toasters. If they turn around and drop a game in the first four weeks of the season and look dysfunctional, then you're like, oh, God. You know, like, so, and I don't think that's going to happen. I was going to say, I don't think with this team that's, you know, River said, let's play a game.

Let's guess the spread in Lambo when they play Wisconsin at the beginning of the year. And he said he would guess eight and a half. I would be more in the 12. I would have range probably. I would guess 13 and a half at least. Yeah, almost two scores. So, you know, they're going to be heavy favorites in every game for the first half of their schedule. And then we'll see how SMU and, you know, I think Miami's their Super Bowl for the regular season for obvious reasons.

not just because they need that game in the playoff committee room, but they need that game for last year too, I bet. So, yeah, certainly intriguing. And Andy, you know, I have my blood pumping a little bit. Like, I just cannot wait to get to the fall now because, you know, this is a very interesting team. And I think that they are back with their backs against the wall. And it is Notre Dame versus the world.

Yeah. And they're probably better off that way. Because most people who aren't Notre Dame fans dislike Notre Dame. in general. And they got maybe a little too cuddly and lovable. It is really hard to dislike Marcus Freeman, though. Like, I don't know what you, if you're just like on either and you want to come up with it.

Like, what's to hate about that guy? Nothing. And there was nothing to hate about Jeremiah Love and nothing to hate. Like, like Will Black, the new left tackle. Like, we met him was your recruit.

Dude's awesome. Yeah. People don't like Notre Dame for various reasons. And most of it has to do with Notre Dame was on TV. Did you ever stop? Did you ever stop to think, like, how would the world have reacted if everything about Notre Dame season last year was the same? But Brian Kelly was their head coach. Oh, good Lord.

Oh, my God. At the end of the year, if you thought it was bad, oh, my God. So I think it might be back to Cuddley and lovable by the time we get the playoffs. Ari, that was a lot of fun. The draft, lots of data. We're not crunch some more numbers before we're through here because that was very, very interesting. But going to be a fun week. Still, a lot of spring practice to unpack.

The season never ends, guys. We're almost there. We're almost back. We'll talk to you, Mark.