Andy & Ari On3 - Tennessee and Virginia take the NCAA to court | Alabama coach Kalen DeBoer speaks | Dear Andy

Episode Date: February 1, 2024

Tonight's show is sponsored by Fanduel, America's No. 1 sportsbook. Visit fanduel.com/Staples to sign up and receive $200 in bonus bets if you win your first bet of $5 or more. Check out Fanduel's Super Bowl specials for a ton of fun ways to spice up the game.The University of Tennessee fired back at the NCAA on Tuesday, and on Wednesday, the state of Tennessee -- with help from Virginia -- took aim at the NCAA in federal court. The attorneys general for Tennessee and Virginia filed a lawsuit claiming the NCAA's restrictions on discussing name, image and likeness deals with recruits violate antitrust law. (0:00-2:16) Intro - Tennessee & Virginia Take Aim at NCAA(2:17-10:05) Andy Breaks down the NCAA Situation in Depth(10:06-24:10) NCAA's Response(24:11-35:16) Kalen DeBoer Speaks in Mobile at the Senior Bowl(35:17-35:28) Dear Andy Intro(35:29-37:49) NCAA Rules?(37:50-42:19) Player in Senior Bowl to be a Pro Bowler?(42:20-47:10) Ryan Day's Hot Seat?(47:11-55:58) Most Gut-Wrenching Losses for Fans(55:59-58:35) Most Anticipated Big 12 Conference Game with Pac-12 Additions(58:36-1:03:24) Top 5 Pac-12 Moments(1:03:25-1:04:01) ConclusionWant to watch the show instead? Head on over to YouTube! https://youtube.com/live/jRid-4RfCrIMust be 21+ and present in select states. FanDuel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas StarCasino, LLC. First online real money wager only. $5 pregame moneyline wager required. First online real money wager only. $10 firstdeposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets that expire 7 days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com.Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania,Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Virginia. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 in Arizona, 1-888-789-7777 or visitccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, 1-800-9-WITH-IT in Indiana, 1-800-522-4700 or visit ksgamblinghelp.com in Kansas, 1-877-770-STOP inLouisiana, visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland, visit 1800gambler.net in West Virginia, or call 1-800-522-4700 in Wyoming. Hope ishere. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call [phone] for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or textHOPENY in New York

Welcome to Andy Staples on three where the news never stops. There's no off season in college football, none, absolutely none. It's all right. It's all right. Because some very interesting things happened on Wednesday. Very interesting. You had two state attorneys general suing the NCAA on antitrust grounds. You had a sitting head coach take an NFL coordinator job sitting. Well, we're not saying we're not saying power in that number because that gets us that gets us the family feud buzzer. A core four head coach, an ACC head coach, Jeff Halfley,

takes the Green Bay Packers defensive coordinator job. So now there's another opening because the college football coaching carousel never stops. By the way, transfer portal open again for 30 days. Though, I will say, BC, when you're in classes for a month already at BC, I don't think you're leaving right now. You're probably going through spring practice before you decide what you're going to do. But let's talk about the biggest news.

The Attorney General of Tennessee, the Attorney General of the Commonwealth of Virginia, filed suit on Wednesday in federal court in Knoxville against the NCAA. And this is stemming from the NCAA's investigation into Tennessee. But again, we'll see if other states join because there was a case similar to this that involved the transfer rules a month ago. And there were seven states, and I believe the U.S. Justice Department chimed in on it as well. So we will see if there is more action on this. But right now, basically what's happened is they've sued saying that the rules against talking about NIL deals with recruits violate the Sherman Antitrust Act. And I broke it all down on Wednesday right after the case was filed. So let's listen to that explanation and then I'll let you know what's

happened since. The attorneys general in Tennessee and Virginia have sued the NCAA and the question is are there more states coming in a lawsuit filed Wednesday morning in federal court in Knoxville the Tennessee and Virginia AGs accuse the NCAA of violating federal antitrust law based on recent enforcement of NIL rules and basically what's going on is the NCAA is looking into cases involving NIL, where basically they are accusing schools of using NIL to induce recruits or discussing NIL payments with recruits. And it's not even the schools necessarily being accused, it's the collectives attached to the schools that are being accused of this. And we know Tennessee is being investigated. We know Florida is being investigated. There are other schools under investigation right now. We're not entirely sure who those schools are, but I imagine

we're going to find out here in the next days and weeks. So basically what this lawsuit is asking is a judge to issue either a temporary restraining order or an injunction that says, hey, these rules don't apply because they violate the Sherman Act and do they? Well, the way to check on this is is it a bunch of competitors colluding to keep a certain group of people from making as much money as they can? Well, yeah, the answer is yes. It's the schools bunch of competitors colluding to keep a certain group of people from making as much money as they can? Well, yeah, the answer is yes. It's the schools made these rules through the NCAA to

keep their costs down. So there's a really good chance that a judge is going to rule that this does violate antitrust law and the NCAA will have to come up with some sort of, they call it pro-competitive justification. And we've seen in past NCAA antitrust cases, they don't really have any good arguments. Their best argument in the past was people like it better when the athletes don't make any money, which isn't based in fact. And in fact, since NIL payments came into existence, college football ratings are up. In fact, ratings are up across the board. Sports are more popular now than they've ever been. But the NCAA has to come up with a way to claim that this is a pro-competitive thing. So they could say, well, these rules exist to make it more fair, to make it more equitable.

In the sport of football, that's going to be hard to argue because when the rules were really in effect and as strict as they could be, college football was probably the most competitively unbalanced sport of all the major sports in America. And in fact, has become more balanced since the NIL stuff came into effect. So this specifically deals with recruits. And what makes this feel so big is that this is kind of the last piece of it. Because yes, you can pay current athletes. You can discuss NIL deals with current athletes if you're the collective. To say you can't discuss it with a prospective athlete is just silly because one, those conversations went on under the table long before NIL was allowed. Two, those conversations go on now. You cannot sign a good football player or a good basketball player

right now unless that person knows what their NIL situation is going to be coming to your school, whether they're coming out of high school or whether they're coming out through the transfer portal. It's just a piece of information that they require before they make that decision. And what the attorney generals are saying is you can't keep that information away from those players because you are trying to suppress that market. So what happens if the TRO gets granted? What happens if an injunction gets granted? Well, then the collectives can just talk to recruits about how much money they're going to make, which spoiler alert, they already are. All this would do is make it where the system that has come into place since NIL became allowed in 2021 would not be against NCAA rules. And the reason this is such a strange situation,

I don't understand why the NCAA went after schools on this. All the schools are doing it now. So it's not like they're going to say, oh, you got Tennessee, you got Florida State, you're getting Florida. We're fine. No, they've got the same things going on with their collective. So if they can get Tennessee, if they can get Florida State, if they can get Florida, they can get you too. And I don't think the schools are going to put up with that. Remember, the schools are the members of the NCAA. Now, a lot of the complaints about this situation is they have not been able to shape the NIL rules the way they would have liked, the way the normal process would allow. Part of it was because that normal process is extremely bureaucratic. It takes a long time. And they've been trying to hit a moving target with all this Nil stuff because it's a rapidly evolving thing

but the ncaa going after some of its biggest schools and saying we're going to enforce rules that weren't necessarily in effect or we weren't sure were in effect when this stuff happened that was a bad idea because that's what brought this case into court and that is probably going to get that rule kicked by the court and if it is i don't think it's ever coming back see just like the stuff with nil when the world didn't end when players started getting paid and in fact the game got a lot more interesting because, oh, shockingly, unless you listen to The Economist, players started moving to schools

where they wouldn't have necessarily gone before. And it made it where more schools could actually compete for the national title in football. So this is going to be a fascinating case because this is one of the most direct attacks on the NCAA just saying, hey, your rules are not sacred. We're going to let this happen. And the world is changing. It's still up to the court to decide whether that happens or not, but given recent history, it probably will. We saw with the transfer rules last month, seven different state attorney generals jumped in on that case, which started in West Virginia, and the transfer rules had no

chance, basically. TRO was issued, then an injunction was issued, and the NCAA just sort of backed off because they understand once it's declared illegal, you've got to figure out something else. And so the schools ultimately need to go back to the drawing board, figure out something else. Perhaps that's revenue sharing with athletes. Perhaps that's viewing athletes as employees and bargaining collectively with them. Because if you do that, then you can't challenge the rules on antitrust grounds. Like if they want to make transfer rules or they want to make a salary cap, compensation rules of any kind, they got to collectively bargain those. Otherwise, they're going to face the same challenges they're facing now. And what they're realizing is

the schools aren't necessarily their friends the states aren't their friends they don't have a whole lot of friends left but that is the ncaa they haven't made a lot of good decisions through this entire process but going after some of their biggest schools for stuff that everybody was doing is probably going to be their biggest mistake yet. So Sandman in the chat, who's a Texas fan, says, let's all sue the NCAA. Well, everybody might at some point. That is a distinct possibility. The NCAA did respond to Tennessee Chancellor Donnie Plowman's comments, not to the case, though, on Wednesday. And here is that response.

While the NCAA generally does not comment on specific, I probably shouldn't read it in the accent. While the NCAA generally does not comment on specific infractions cases, it is important to remember that NCAA member schools and conferences not only make the rules, but routinely call for greater enforcement of those rules and holding violators accountable. In recent years, this has been especially true as it relates to establishing and enforcing a consistent set of national rules intended to manage the name and likeness environment. This legal action would exacerbate what our members themselves have frequently described as a Wild West atmosphere, further tilting competitive imbalance among schools in neighboring states and diminishing protections for student-athletes from potential exploitation. wild west atmosphere further tilting competitive imbalance among schools in neighboring states and diminishing protections for student athletes from potential exploitation the ncaa remains firmly committed to protecting and expanding student athletes nil rights and opportunities however

our membership has steadfastly supported the prohibition on impermissible recruiting contacts booster involvement in recruiting prospects and the use of nil offers as recruiting inducements that's what they've said in recruiting prospects and the use of NIL offers as recruiting inducements. That's what they've said. Here's the problem. You're going by what these ADs and coaches say and not what they do. They say it's the wild west. They say that this is awful. This is the worst thing ever. What do they do? They're making NIL deals with everybody as recruits everywhere. That's what they're doing. Stop worrying about what they're saying. We know what they're saying. We know they want to protect the status quo, protect their money. We get it. Also, I will push back on the NCAA saying that it is trying to protect athletes' NIL opportunities. You don't

protect somebody by suppressing their income. The NCAA tried that in the O'Bannon case. I remember sitting there in the courtroom in Oakland when the NCAA president at the time, Mark Emmert, was on the stand, and he's talking about protecting the athletes from exploitation and the plaintiff's attorneys call up a picture of the Kansas state football team running across the Buffalo wild wings logo. And he's like, how are you protecting them from exploitation here? It sort of looks like you're exploiting them because your school is getting the money, but they're not. It's going to be a bloodbath if this keeps going. And again, I keep trying to explain to people, it's not just Tennessee. It could have been anybody.

And it's multiple somebodies. There are more of these. And they picked the wrong set of schools to do this to because these are the schools that the NCAA needs to support them and here's the other part of the NCAA's response that well doesn't hold up there is no response to the antitrust suit they're not claiming it's legal because they know it's not. They know what happened in the Alston case when they lost nine to nothing. When Justice Gorsuch had a pretty calm opinion, but if you read between the lines,

it said all the same things that Brett Kavanaugh's much fierier concurring opinion said. Basically, any of these compensation rules come to the federal court system, they're going to get kicked. And the incident knows this. So they push Tennessee into a corner and Tennessee comes out swinging. And guess what? Once a judge rules on this, and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the judge will say, no, no. By all means, keep them from making more money. All you competitors make rules unilaterally and impose them on people who have no say to make sure they get less money.

Maybe a judge will say that's within the law. I suspect they won't. And once that happens, it doesn't matter what you think of the rules or what anybody said about the rules. They're gone. So strap in for this one. Strap in because it is going to be wild Kyle Tucker in the chat I know damn well there's some recruits walking around with brand new Nike gear because of Uncle Phil hey Kyle do you know how many schools wear Nike you're you're you're a little little behind on this. It's going to be very interesting to see if any other states get involved,

if other schools are being investigated for this stuff now. Because, again, it's not because of Tennessee, and it's not because of what's going on. Like, the NCAA leaked details to the New York Times on Tuesday that Nico Yamamelava, when he was recruit, got flown by private jet to Knoxville. Well, yes. He signed a representation agreement with Spire Sports, which then flew its client to Knoxville on a private jet. You're going to have to convince somebody. Well, actually, you're not. to Knoxville on a private jet.

You're going to have to convince somebody. Well, actually, you're not. You're not even going to be able to try to convince somebody that that was a recruiting inducement. And maybe it was. But if a judge kicks the rule, it doesn't matter. And I think that's the part that the NCAA doesn't quite get that nobody in charge seems to get at least the ones that are, that are doing the decision-making you're only maybe, I mean, it depends on how quickly this goes, but you might be less than a week away from

your rules, not applying at all. Like if they kick a rule that says you can't use NIL as a recruiting inducement and you can't discuss NIL with recruits so that you can discuss NIL with recruits and you can use it as a recruiting inducement, it's never coming back. That rule's not coming back. And let's be honest, everybody knows that. Everybody's been preparing for that eventuality. The schools are already doing that. They're already acting as if that's happened. And again, stop worrying about what they say. Never listen to a complaining AD. Watch what they do.

Josh in the chat. Is this a tipping point in college athletics? Also, what percentage do you see the four main conferences forming their own governing body? Good question, Josh. It does feel like a tipping point because this is the most direct attack on a rule that limits broad payment to players. And the fact that it's recruits is the big distinction here because this is essentially the hiring process. We're not calling them employees. The government may eventually call them employees, but before you couldn't, you couldn't do this at all. You couldn't pay them at all. And then they said, you can pay them, but once they're on campus, well, that's stupid.

Nobody in the right mind is going to make a decision about where to go based on what they might get when they get there. They want to know what they're going to get when they get there. So the hiring process is very important. So yeah, when this comes along, this would open the floodgates. This would just make everything that's been going on within the rules because the rules wouldn't exist anymore. As far as a percentage about the core four, see, I said it right, leaving the NCAA, they don't have to leave the NCAA.

Remember, they are still the most important members of the NCAA. They could just clean house in there and change all the rules. There's still a possibility. Like, that's not outside the realm at all. Maybe football breaks away i think the smarter move might be breaking football off because that would eliminate a lot of the problems and make all the other ones kind of more like sports now you might need to

break basketball off too because football and men's and women's basketball. Do seem to operate in a little bit different sphere. Than everything else. But. I just think. They can do it. Within the confines of the NCAA. They just have to take out all the people.

Who have been. Faithful to the old way of doing things. And say. Do you have imagination? Or do you have imagination or do you lack imagination? And if you lack imagination, you're gone because we're going to have to imagine a new world here. That's the only way to do this. You have to imagine a new world. You can't sit there and say everything that was going on before is going to be that way forever because you're not. It's not going to happen. That is not how the world works. And really when the Supreme Court ruled

9-0 against the NCAA in the Austin case, that was the point where they should have said, okay, we have to start forging a new world here. They didn't do that. Kyle asks, why are they going after Tennessee and not Texas A&M, Texas, Ohio State? They literally just left Tennessee a few months ago for infractions. Well, the old Tennessee infractions were old NCAA rules, old stuff, you know, basically recruiting violations, stuff during COVID. Why are they not going after other schools for what they are going after Tennessee for now? They are. Florida is one of them. We know that.

Florida State already wrapped up its case. There will be more. And my guess is some of them are going to respond as violently as Tennessee did, and that will not go well. Paul in the chat, once the state's passed NILs, the NCAA lost power to regulate. It's about who's in charge, laws, or guidelines. The NCAA cannot act to restrict commerce in a free market. Horizontal price fixing.

I think Paul's a lawyer. But yes, that is the term that would be used and was actually used in the lawsuit that was filed. So we will watch this. I know there's some of you who never want to hear about this stuff. Can't stand it. I get it. You want to talk football. I do too.

But this one's really important. There's a reason we've led the show with it two nights in a row. This one could change a lot because if they go to court, if the rule gets kicked, it is pretty much time to start the new world. And I think you're seeing some of the people in charge coming to that realization there there are some forward-thinking athletic directors forward-thinking conference commissioners who have been saying we have to prepare for this we have to do something about this and they've you know the requests have kind of fallen on deaf ears because a lot of people in college sports

don't want to change they don't want it to be any different, but they're going to have to. It's going to have to change. So we will see what happens in this case. I would suspect there will be more states getting involved. We know because the NCAA has bragged about it, that there are more schools being investigated right now. We will probably find out who those schools are coming up fairly shortly, but we're going to find out soon how this is all going to work. We can't take bets on that, but you can go to fanduel.com slash staples, sign up, and get ready for the Super Bowl because FanDuel has a lot of fun ways to spice up your Super Bowl. So go to fanduel.com slash staples. You get $200 in bonus bets if you win your first bet of $5 or more.

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go to FanDuel.com slash staples and sign up. All right. As promised, let us talk some football. I know you guys wanted to talk football. I wanted to talk football. I'm in Mobile wanted to talk football. I wanted to talk football. I'm in Mobile at the Senior Bowl. So I got to watch Kalen DeBoer address us today. And he's in the final throws of

his first recruiting on the road period at Alabama. And all the coaches are out and about. You saw a lot of coaches at the senior bowl because they're stopping through. They're looking, they're visiting recruits in the area. And so Kalen DeVore obviously mobile, a very important area for him to recruit. And so he came in, but he also came in to see some of his former players, including Michael Pinnock's junior, the former Washington Q, who is playing in the Senior Bowl and will lighten it up at the practice. He's looked really good. But DeBoer was asked about where Penix is at based on when he started with him

at Indiana in 2019. Yeah, we were just talking about that. You know, just kind of in five minutes, a snapshot of what he's gone through and what he's all worked for and realizing that dream right now. And really in the best place he's ever been when it comes to two to three years now being healthy and just continue to develop and grow. Just all he's been through prepared him mentally for this type of scenario to where the pressure is the pressure,

but he knows he has the confidence that he's going to be just fine. He just doesn't need to take the lead. So DeBoer deserves a ton of credit for what he did with Penix because this was a guy who was broken leaving Indiana. He'd had three consecutive season-ending injuries. It didn't feel like he was going to be able to to ever recapture. You know, you remember that the 2020 game against Penn State, we reached for the pile on to win it in overtime. It didn't feel like he was going to be able to get

back to that person. He not only got back to being that person, he excelled. I mean, he was one of the best quarterbacks in the country, took his team to the national title game and DeBoer and his staff Ryan Grubb the offensive coordinator especially deserve a ton of credit for that and that's that's what they're bringing to Alabama now DeBoer got a question that I imagine he gets quite a bit on the road from recruits parents from high school coaches, that sort of thing. But he was asked, basically, are you prepared for the difference in college football in the South versus the places you've coached before? Coach, you see a difference between Pac-12 football and SEC football?

Any noticeable difference? Yeah, I think there is. I mean, this level of football here in the SEC has been at a high championship level for a long time. And I think every part of the country has their own style. Physicality is what wins championships. And I think that's what a lot of what we do is going to be based on. But I think football is also football no matter where you go. Our stuff will also translate to wherever we've been.

You know, I've been in the Midwest and at other places in the country and, you know, just making the jaunt from the West Coast to the Southeast. I think all the things we do will translate. Kalen Moore ain't scared. I ain't scared. I ain't scared. Listen, if you can win in one place, you can win in another place. It's not it is not that much

apples to oranges. Yes, the level of competition is higher in the SEC because players are better. The level of competition in the Big Ten is high and he would have been in the Big Ten had he stayed at Washington. Jamie in the chat. I feel like DeBoer is viewed as some great hire because it's Alabama. Auburn, Vanderbilt, Arkansas, Mississippi State make this hire,

and it's not viewed the same. Well, Auburn, Vanderbilt, Arkansas, and Mississippi State couldn't have made this hire because he would not have led Washington four days after playing the national title game. Because guess what? He was already in the national title game. Because guess what? He was already in the national title game. So why would he go to one of those places when he was at a place

where he could go to the national title game? He could go to Alabama because they go to the national title game a lot. So you could probably go to the national title game more at Alabama than you could at Washington. Those other places are basically the same or lesser. So why would even consider that? It's a good hire because he's a good coach.

He's won everywhere he's been. All right, another question. This was a good one. DeBoer got asked about what he likes in an offensive line. And this is one of those that on its surface you're like okay what does that mean everybody likes good blockers but stylistically what do you want size wise what do you want because what he had at Washington very different than what Alabama had last year I think um you know we just worked with what we had and uh obviously

it was a strong group of multiple, both our right tackle and left tackle are going to be high-end draft picks, and Roger's here at the senior bowl and doing a great job. So talent was in a great spot there, and now it's just a matter of utilizing their strengths. A lot of it revolved around what your quarterback can do. With Michael, we were able to protect him. Then I think as the season went along, each and every year, 22 and 23, we developed a run game as the year went along,

and that was important for us to win a conference championship. The game, I always say, you wear the pads for a reason. It's meant to be a physical game. The heart and soul of what we do do we'll have to rely on that so it's interesting when you compare and contrast Washington's offensive line this past year versus Alabama's Washington the tackles were 317 and 300 pounds at Alabama they were 354 and 335 pounds Washington's guards, three, three 27 and two 75 Alabama's starting guards, three, three 35 and three 16, uh, center at Washington, two 78 centered Alabama, three Oh one. Now part of this is because Alabama can, can recruit elite athletes on the offensive line.

So you can get bigger guys who are just as athletic as smaller guys. So part of it is they can have a heavier offensive line without sacrificing too much athleticism. Now, when you have guys who are 350, 340, you probably are sacrificing some athleticism versus a 315-pound offensive tackle. They're going to be the occasional freaks of nature who are much bigger and can move just as well, but that's, that's pretty rare. So what happens next with,

with this offensive line? It'll be very interesting. Do they continue to be as big as they've been at Alabama or do they streamline it a little more? If you watch the end of the Pac-12 championship game, Washington versus Oregon, and that's a really athletic Oregon defensive front. It's not a huge front. It's not necessarily as big as the bigger ones you'll see in the SEC, but it's certainly as athletic as some of the ones you'll see in the SEC. And they were wearing them down.

It was a perfect four-minute drill, and you saw the guards pulling and just crushing people on the edges. And that athleticism really showed, and this is the offensive line that won the Joe Moore award is the best offensive line in the country. Clearly that's something that works in that offense. So I would not be super shocked if Alabama's offensive linemen are a little bit lighter next year. If you see maybe instead of three, you know, Caden Proctor's gone, he's the 354 pound tackle, and he is one of those athletic freaks of nature. He's gone to Iowa, but I wouldn't be stunned if Alabama's tackles next year are in the 325 to 330 range rather than the 335 to 350 range. I would imagine that they do get a little more streamlined because if they're going to run the

ball the way they did at Washington, some of those guys need to be able to move really well, especially given the athleticism of the fronts they'll face in the SEC. So I can't wait to see what happens here, because I think this is one of the more important strategic decisions that Kalen DeBoer and company will have to make. We'll do one more from DeBoer. This is a question about Austin Mack, who's one of the quarterbacks that they brought from Washington. He was on the roster at Washington last year as a freshman.

He came to Alabama as a transfer. And not coincidentally, the morning after Austin Mack announced that he was committing to Alabama as a transfer, Julian Sayen, who was the number one quarterback recruit in the class of 2024, who had signed with Alabama, he entered the transfer portal and he wound up at Ohio State. So here is Kalen De Nabor on Austin Mack. Well, I think his skillset and all the tools he brings as a, as a quarterback, the arm talent. But I also just think he's got a really great head on his shoulders.

He's young. And for him to do what he did this last year with us, he reclassified and really learned the offense as fast as anyone I've ever seen at that age. So he's got to just continue to grow, continue to develop. I know he's all about those challenges. He sees them as opportunities. And it was exciting for him as well as us to have him come down here. So I think that's a pretty ringing endorsement of Austin Mack now Jalen Milrow will probably

go into spring practice as the starter and and if he performs well I would imagine he comes out of spring practice as a starter and is the starter for Alabama this season but it definitely feels like Mack is is DeBoer's hand-picked guy kind of waiting in the wings and I think that's that's why Julian say and made the decision he did. I think he saw the writing on the wall there, but very interesting comments from the new Alabama coach. Like he's still wild to me. Kalen DeBoer replaced Nick Saban.

Like that happened. And somebody took a picture at Senior Bowl practice on Wednesday, and it was Jed Fish in his Washington gear looking at Kalen DeBoer in his Alabama gear. And the caption was essentially, show this to someone on January 1st of this year and ask them what happened. And their head would explode so much

has changed in the last month it's it's been two weeks two and a half weeks well no two weeks to the day since Nick Saban retired four days after the national title game ended Jalen DeBoer was taking a new job actually it, it hadn't even been four full days. So much has changed. And that brings up lots of questions. So let's answer some of your questions. It is time

for Dear Andy, one of my favorite times of the week because I do love the questions you ask. We'll start with one from MJM, which taps back into what we started talking about at the beginning of the week because I do love the questions you ask. We'll start with one from MJM, which taps back into what we started talking about at the beginning of the show. So NCA schools make the rules, then get mad when they enforce rules they themselves have made. Now, it used to happen on a limited basis. The ones who broke the rules, they would get targeted. They would say, no, no, no, the rules aren't fair. And everybody would be like, no,

they're pretty fair. We're good with them. That's not what's happening in this case. There's a couple reasons for that. One reason is everybody has just accepted this method of recruiting players and signing players as the way you do it now, standard procedure. Part of that was because the NCAA didn't do anything about it for the first two years of NIL. But another part of it is, in this case, the schools did not get their usual chance to

really have a say in the rules. These rules have been adjusted on the fly. There's been interpretation handed down from on high. There was a telephonic vote of a 23-member committee that essentially changed how they're going to handle the discipline in these cases that they're basically going, all NIL cases, the accused will be presumed guilty instead of innocent. How sound is your process when you have to make an end run around your usual rulemaking strategy to say that someone is presumed guilty? Like, how bad do you want to nail some people? And are you not sure that you actually can?

Are you not sure you could actually make a case? That's why people are mad. And again, fans of non-Tennessee want to say, oh, it's just Tennessee. It is not just Tennessee. It's more schools, maybe yours next. And if what Tennessee did with Nico is considered punishable, then how basically every school has signed every football and basketball player in the last year is considered punishable. So everybody's on the hook, which is why you're seeing the pushback you're seeing. All right.

More fun question from old slack, Joe Cain, what player in the senior bowl, would you bet your mortgage on being a pro bowler in the next few seasons? I have a few of these. I've got a few, few answers. So ran into JT Daniels at the senior bowl, former USC, Georgia, West Virginia, and rice quarterback, JT Daniels. He's trying to get into coaching. And I asked him about Zach Frazier, who is the center from West Virginia, who is at the senior bowl right now. And he said, Zach Frazier may be the perfect offensive lineman, the perfect center, perfect height, perfect toughness, everything you want, everything a quarterback could want in a center. So I could definitely put my mortgage on Zach Frazier becoming a Pro Bowl center. Now, a couple other guys that after Wednesday, I was like, yeah, I feel pretty good giving their

names in this answer as well. I watched Tavondre Sweat, the 360 pound defensive tackle from Texas. I watched him commit a homicide on an offensive lineman in a one-on-one pass pro drill. And now, obviously, we've seen Tavondre do great things at Texas. He's looked good at senior bowl practices. But this was a reminder of just what a supernatural force this guy is. And I will not say the name of the offensive lineman. He's been through enough. But oh my God, watching Tavondre Sweat just maul this dude reminds you of what he can be. And remember, at that size, you don't have to play 50, 60 snaps in the NFL to be impactful. You can do it with 25 to 30 snaps a game.

You give 25 to 30 great reps at that size. You can really make a huge impact on the game. So I think to Vondre sweat is one that could be a great one. And another one who just watching him play all season, I thought he was awesome. But then seeing him against the best of the best in mobile has only raised my opinion of, and then I talked to him on Wednesday for an interview that you're going to hear in the next few days, Braden Fisk, the Western Michigan transfer who plays last season at Florida state defensive tackle, 300 pounds gap shooter, great interior pass rusher. Sometimes he is past the offensive lineman before the offensive lineman can even move. It is a joy to watch. And this guy is so much fun to talk to.

You are going to love him when you hear this interview. So I think I'm going to add him to that list too, because a guy with this level of motor and that level of work ethic, I think you're going to see him make multiple Pro Bowls. So it's been fun. I will say this trip to Mobile has been great. You're going to hear quite a few interviews over the next few days with some of these players. We talked to some of the quarterbacks.

We talked to Joe Milton. We talked to Sam Hartman. We talked to Spencer Rattler. And we talked to some of the line. Brandon Dorlis, our friend from Oregon, he was fantastic. And it's very interesting to see these guys playing against each other because this is usually a pretty star-studded event, but I think they've really upped their game.

And you heard Jim Nagy all season when he came on with us saying, I think there's some really good players. I think we're going to have a lot of good competition in this game. He was not joking. There's some star power here. And there's, there are a lot of guys who are fighting for first and second round spots that are out there on the practice field.

And it, it has been fun to watch them work because there's a lot of dudes that work their butts off when they're on the practice field. Cause you know, you see them in the games. You don't always get to see how they work on a daily basis. I think the reason the NFL coaches love events like the Senior Bowl or the Shrine Bowl is they get to see the guys practice. They get to see them in meetings.

They get to see how they act when most of the world is not watching. And I think it makes a big difference. And one more interview, I'll tease, and we haven't quite figured out how or when we're rolling these out, but they will be done over the next few days. I talked to Iowa punter, Tori Taylor. Very, very fun interview. Tori Taylor is awesome. He's an Aussie punter. If you watched Iowa this year, I mean, he might have been their best player. Now, Cooper to Gene, probably their best player.

He would vote for Cooper to Gene. But Torrey Taylor was a weapon as a punter. So you're going to enjoy hearing from him. Next question comes from Craig. Given Michigan's national title and win streak in the game and the fact that Mike Vrabel remains unemployed, has any highly successful coach been on more of a hot seat than Ryan day? Usually going 33 and six keeps that seat fairly chilly.

I don't, I get it. I understand the existential dread of Ohio state, potentially losing a fourth time in a row to Michigan. I understand that losing to Sharon more instead of Jim Harbaugh this year was not what they wanted. Just made it worse. Just made everything worse.

I understand that Mike Vrabel is a beloved Buckeye, who is a very capable NFL head coach, and that he's not getting an NFL head coaching job this year. Now, I question whether Mike Vrabel wants to come back to the NFL or come back to college. He was briefly in college, but I don't know how much he loved recruiting. I think he could be a very good recruiter, flash some Super Bowl rings. He's a football guy. There's no question he'd be good in the living room. But does he want to do that? That's the thing. A lot of these coaches just don't want to deal

with it. We saw Jeff Halfley leave Boston College, go to the Green Bay Packers. Now Jeff Halfley, was he in the greatest shape at Boston College? Not necessarily, but he'd taken them to bowl games in three or four years. He was doing a pretty good job. You're going to see this. I keep telling you the rules are changing. The rules are going to change. They're going to change. But until they do, coaching in the NFL is a much easier job than coaching in college football. College football coaches have to recruit their roster

on a daily basis. They can be held hostage by players who can transfer now unlimited times. So I get it. I get why a coach would want to leave for the NFL rather than deal with all that. the Ryan day thing, I still think is a little overblown because I know how Gene Smith felt. He's the outgoing ad at Ohio state. Ross Bjork is the new ad at Ohio state. I don't exactly know how Ross feels on this subject, but Gene Smith was very measured on this topic. Yeah. You got to beat Michigan. So Ryan Day does have to end that streak at some point. But as long as you're winning and putting a team on the field that can be competitive at the Big Ten, competitive for the college football playoff, you're doing something right. And if you look at what Ryan Day's done this offseason, they've improved their roster. I know some people

don't like the Bill O'Brien hire. I actually do. I think like the Bill O'Brien. I actually do. I think bringing in Bill O'Brien as the offensive coordinator will make Ryan Day's job easier because he does not have to do as much game planning. He does not have to be involved in so many granular decisions and can deal with more big picture stuff. I also think the fact that a really old, good defense is mostly coming back intact, just makes a massive difference. So yeah, I think Ohio State should be favored to win the Big Ten going into next season. I think they should be back where they were before. And if they're not, you can ask those questions.

But if they're in the college football playoff and they make it to the semifinals, are we really that upset about Ryan Day? My feeling is if you put your team in the mix over and over and over again, you're doing it right. That's what I always said about Kirby Smart before they won the national title at Georgia. Kirby is in no danger at that point, even though he hadn't gotten over the hump because he was always putting them in the mix. And you know, if you keep doing that, you get over the hump. So that's what Ryan Day's got to do. Now, you don't have to beat Michigan to do that right now. The new system creates a way to not have to beat Michigan. That said, you're the Ohio

State coach. You have to beat Michigan. So that would be probably the hardest part. He's got to beat Michigan, and he probably needs to do it this year. But I don't know, even then, if they lose to Michigan, but they make the playoff, and they make the semis, and they make the playoff and they make the semis and they make the final. You really that mad about it? I just don't know. I don't know if that's the case. I think cooler heads prevail in that situation. Next question comes from my friend, Robbie. Robbie was my former producer on big 12 radio when I worked for Sirius XM, very fun guy, excellent, excellent thinker when it comes to big picture sports questions. So Robbie's a lions fan. He says he's still mourning my Detroit lions,

but it spurred a question. What is the worst loss in the history of college football? Not as in a blowout, but a loss that crushes the soul of that fan base. So I think a lot of us are probably going to immediately go to the kick six because that is absolute defeat snatched from the jaws of victory. But here's the thing about the kick six. Alabama had won national titles in 2011 and 2012. They were trying to three-peat. So Alabama's fan base did not have its soul sucked out by this because

they just won three national titles in four years. They were going to win another two by 2017. I don't think that one was as bad. Ditto for fourth and 31. Yes, in the moment, it's awful. It is I don't think that one was as bad. Ditto for fourth and 31. Yes, in the moment, it's awful. It is horrendous what Alabama did to Auburn this year. It is a gut punch to end all gut punches.

But Auburn wasn't necessarily playing for more than pride in that game. They weren't playing for, like, in the kick six game, Auburn was playing for the SEC West title. Auburn was just playing for pride. So I don't think it is as crushing as it could have been. I'll give you a couple. I've got three that I think really fit the bill. Two of them had championship implications. One did not, but one was just, it was just one of those like, oh, come on. So let's hop back in the Wayback Machine, go back to 1997. Now, remember back in 1997, Nebraska still rules college football, rules that they're in the Big 12 now. This is the new conference, but they're playing former Big Eight rival Missouri. So they've been playing

every year. And at that point, Nebraska had beaten Missouri 18 times in a row in 1997. Nebraska was the number one team in the country. Missouri was leading 38-31 in the waning moments of the game. Scott Frost throws a pass to Shevin Wiggins. Shevin Wiggins does not catch it. It's in the end zone. This is the game. This is the end of regulation. Shevin Wiggins does not catch the ball, but as he's falling, his feet hit the ball. You can say he kicked it, but the officials do call this illegal kicking. And I don't, I don't think he intended to kick it. I think he was just falling and that his feet and the ball ended up in the same place.

The ball goes up in the air where it is caught in the end zone by Matt Davison. Nebraska ties the game, sends it to overtime, wins the game in overtime. It's called the fleet kicker. Missouri, which had already lost to Colorado in the fifth down game a few years earlier,

and Colorado goes on to win a piece of the national title that year. Missouri just could not catch a break. This was an absolute ridiculous gut punch. Absolutely. The truth in the chat, the Clemson walk off against Alabama, the throw of Hunter Renfro at the end of the 2016 season. That was pretty good because although I will say I was on the field at that point, I was on the field when Jalen Hurts ran in the touchdown that put Alabama up. And as soon as that offense took the field, Deshaun Watson, Hunter Renfro, Mike Williams, I, there was no doubt in my mind that Clemson was going to win that game so I don't know how

Alabama fans felt about that but I think they they had seen enough from Clemson the year before to know how dangerous that offense was and I think they probably might have felt the same sense of impending doom but let's go to another one that was an absolute just brutal loss. The 2007 Backyard Brawl. So remember, you go into Championship Saturday, and the Big East didn't play a championship game. So it's playing regular season games on the Championship Saturday. The Big 12 Championship, Oklahoma beats Missouri,

knocks Missouri out of a potential national title game spot. So you get to the backyard brawl that night. West Virginia just has to beat Pittsburgh, and they are heavily favored. And they're in the national title game against Ohio State. And that game was just a disaster for Westridge. They could not do anything. The offense didn't work. Pat White hurt his finger, and it just, nothing worked.

And it was a brutal, brutal loss. That's one of the worst I've ever seen, because they were right there. And they should not have lost that pit. That pit team should not have been able to play with them, but it did. And of course, now we go to the one I think is the biggest gut punch because it happened in the national title game and a team that thought it was going to break in a very long drought was sentenced to more of the same. I speak of course of second and 26. The scene is Atlanta, Mercedes-Benz Stadium, Alabama and Georgia playing for the national title. Rodrigo Blankenship hits a field goal from Savannah, basically,

to put Georgia up three in the first overtime. On the first play of Alabama's possession, Tua Tungavailoa drops back and keeps dropping back and keeps scrambling. And he gets sacked for a 16-yard loss. That should have been it. Georgia, you know, if they can bat down a couple passes, Alabama tries a long field goal or tries a long fourth down pass. Alabama loses.

Georgia wins the first national title for the Bulldogs since 1980. Now, we look back at this now, and it doesn't seem so bad because we know that georgia wins the national title in 2021 and 2022 put yourself in the position of a georgia fan who at that point does not know that's going to happen but knows they have not won a national title since 1980 1980. Oh, my goodness. I was on the field for this one too. And I just remember watching the snap and seeing Devontae Smith break open and go touchdown as the ball was in the air.

Like Tua caught it and knew exactly where to go. Smith was wide open. Safety didn't roll fast enough. And it was unbelievable. All the Georgia players just dropped to the ground. I remember Bradley Bozeman was Alabama's center. He just walked past with tears in his eyes. Alex Leatherwood, the tackle, he'd had to come into

that game to replace Jonah Williams, who'd gotten hurt in the third quarter. Alex just sat down on one of the benches and stared up at the ceiling as the confetti fell on his head. He couldn't believe it. Nobody could believe what had happened. Nobody. And the poor Georgia fans, they're just, like, they didn't just get up and leave. They just sat there. Because they knew they were going to win a national title. It's second and 26. True freshman QB that had to be inserted at halftime. There's no way that Blankenship field goal

couldn't have been the game winner. And then it just gets ripped away. Hearts just got ripped straight out of the chest. So Robbie, I don't know

if that makes you feel better. About the way the Lions lost. But I do think. It maybe should, because as bad as that was, second and 26 was worse for those Georgia fans.

I promised you that. Next question comes from UCF Billy. What are your most anticipated Big 12 games featuring the new Pac-12 editions? Well, the first one, I don't know that I would have put on this list when Jed fish left Arizona, but now that we know, know if a feed is coming back, tutorial McMillan's coming back. I'm throwing Arizona at Kansas state on September 14th in there. Cause yeah, yes. Arizona has lost a bit since fish left, but I like Brent Brennan a lot. And I think, you know think they probably bring back enough that they should still be very competitive in the Big 12.

And you know how I feel about Avery Johnson Mania at Kansas State. I'm very excited to see his first season as a starter in Manhattan. So that one, early September, like that game a lot. Next one, the following week, Utah goes to Stillwater. So battle of two teams that have some of the nastiest small home field advantage. The fans are right on top of you at Boone Pickens Stadium, but the Utah players probably don't mind that

because they're also right on top of you at Utah. It is. It's interesting because those environments are really intense. The must the mighty Utah student section is very intimidating to the visiting team. All the Oklahoma State fans on the first row draped over with the paddles are slapping the side of the stadium the whole time. It's a very intimidating environment. I cannot wait to see that. So, you know, Utah leaves the friendly for them confines of Rice Eccles, which are not too friendly to visitors to go to Boone Pickens Stadium, which is as about as intense an environment as you're going to get. And then my next one also features Utah.

BYU versus Utah on November 9th. That's right. It's a conference game again. The Holy War. Church versus state. Guys, if you've not watched a BYU-Utah game, you're missing out on one of the nastiest rivalries in college football. We talk about how nasty the Egg Bowl is. We talk about how nasty the Territorial Cup between Arizona and Arizona State is. I'm not sure either one holds a candle to BYU-Utah. The Egg Bowl is close, but BYU-Utah, they hate each other. It is unbelievable. I am so happy that's a conference game again.

I cannot wait to see it. But before we go, Casey wants a requiem for the Pac-12. He says, with the extinction of the Pac-12 and Pac-10 as we knew it, please list your top five favorite Pac-12 teams and or moments. I'm going to go with moments. And it's not necessarily games or anything like that these are just the the most fun moments

of the pack 10 and pack 12 that i can remember number five marshall lynch driving the cart at Cal. Hysterical. He's in full uniform just driving the cart around the field. It was amazing. There's a bobblehead now of this. They've reenacted it multiple times. Just a tremendous moment. Number four, Chip Kelly sends a fan a refund after the 2009 Boise State game so that was Chip Kelly's first game as Oregon's head coach the offense did not work very well in that game it did not go the way they had hoped Boise State won and Boise State was very good at the time but Oregon was about to embark on a pretty historic season. Oregon would go on and win the Pac-10 that year. They would rip off a bunch of wins.

But a fan complained about making the trip and the offense stunk and sent Chip Kelly an itemized receipt and Chip Kelly sent the fan a check to refund the money. That's when you knew Chip Kelly was going to be something different in college football. Number three, Ed Orgeron as interim coach

leads the USC band with Tommy Trojan's sword after beating Stanford. Listen, he brought cookies back to the training table right after Lane Kiffin got fired. You will never convince me that Ed Orgeron isn't the greatest interim coach in football history. Like, I seriously think if you've got a coach on the hot seat, you should just hire Ed Orgeron as a position coach. So he's ready to take over when you need him. Or maybe you don't even do that.

Maybe you just fire the head coach and bring Ed Orgeron in for your last four or five games. Like, name me a better interim coach. Sharon Moore, maybe? We'll see. But Ed Orgeron's done it at USC and LSU. So I just, I'm telling you, if you fire somebody and you don't feel real good about your interim choices, just hire Ed Orgeron. And he'll wind up leading the band with one of the implements that your mascot uses. Number two, what's your deal?

So this was what Pete Carroll said to Jim Harbaugh after the 2009 Stanford-USC game. Stanford whipped up on USC. And an icy greeting at midfield. Now, what's interesting about this is Pete Carroll goes on to become the Seattle Seahawks head coach. Becomes one of the coaches who has, I guess it's sort of like the football coach version of an EGOT you know an Emmy a Grammy an Oscar and a Tony if you've got a college football national championship and a Super Bowl victory he's one of the few who has both Jim Harbaugh

is now trying to join that club unfortunately he won't get to do it by playing Pete Carroll because Pete Carroll was pushed out in Seattle. But that was a fascinating, and it felt like a kind of transfer of power in the Pac-10 at the time because Pete Carroll was on his way out. We didn't quite know that yet, but Jim Harbaugh was lifting Stanford into a place that David Shaw would keep Stanford for most of the next decade. And he did it in a very emphatic way against the Trojans. Number one, of course, this is the easiest one of all time. Favorite moment in Pac-10 history? The band is on the field.

Cal Stanford 1982, the wildest play in the history of the sport you got people getting run over with their instruments in hand there will never be anything else like that that that I mean like I said I was on the field for second and 26. I can't even imagine what it would be like to be on the field when the band, the Stanford band, is pouring onto the field and Cal is still laterally the ball. What a moment. It's a shame the conference had to go out the way it did, but I guess the band is on the field is now one of the greatest plays in ACC history. Oh God, I can't even say that was

straight face. That's it. Show's over guys. We're done here. Play is one of the greatest plays in ACC history. Oh boy. I can't wait for the ACC Network documentary. I also can't wait to talk to you on Thursday night. We'll be back 8 p.m. Eastern. We'll talk to you then.