Andy & Ari On3 - Tennessee Volunteers DEEP DIVE: Vols Insider on QB battle between George McIntyre, Faizon Brandon | AD Chris McIntosh LEAVING Wisconsin | James Madison will Billy Napier

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

As a number of spring games have concluded across the country, one of the more intriguing games comes out of Tennessee with the Vols. As Josh Heupel enters his 6th season in Knoxville, Brent Hubbs from VolQuest joins to discuss where thing stand with the quarterback battle on Rocky Top. Who will start for the Volunteers? How much of an impact will DC Jim Knowles make? What should fans expect in 2026? Andy & Ari discuss with Brent Hubbs here.   (0:00) On Today’s Episode (0:54) Presenting Sponsor (2:09) Intro: Previewing Tennessee (4:52) Brent Hubbs Joins - Flashback (15:00) Vols in 2026 - Latest on QB battle (22:52) Tennessee’s defense with Jim Knowles (26:50) How fans are feeling in Knoxville (30:21) Josh Heupel’s changes: New S&C Coach (35:10) Revisiting flashback (38:39) Conclusion with Hubbs (39:42) Wrapping up the TN Discussion (47:48) Who Am I? (54:02) Chris McIntosh leaving Wisconsin (1:04:41) Billy Napier at James Madison (1:12:03) Thanks!   After closing out with Brent Hubbs, Andy introduces his first edition of “Who Am I?” with Ari. Were you able to guess the player before Ari?   Next up, Andy & Ari head to Wisconsin, where the Badgers AD Chris McIntosh is leaving Madison for the Big Ten office. What does this mean for Luke Fickell in 2026?   Closing out, Andy & Ari close out with a story from USA Today’s Matt Hayes on James Madison head coach Billy Napier. Does the new head coach for the Dukes have a new edge? Watch here as Andy & Ari discuss.   Read Matt’s story here: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2026/04/13/billy-napier-florida-gators-james-madison-college-football-jmu/89526124007/   Send your questions to: [e-mail] [e-mail]   Our show is also presented by BetMGM!   If you haven’t signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code CFB and you will get up to a $1500 First Bet Offer on your first wager with BetMGM! Here’s how it works:   1. Download the BetMGM app and sign-up using bonus code CFB. 2. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game. 3. You will receive up to $1500 in bonus bets if your bet loses! Just make sure you use bonus code CFB when you sign up!   Make this college football season one for the history books. Make it legendary.   See BetMGM.com for Terms. 21+ only. This promotional offer is not available in DC, Mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET (Available in the US) . 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), 1-800-327-5050 (MA), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR). First Bet Offer for new customers only (if applicable). Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel   Join On3 today! https://www.on3.com/join   Watch our show on YouTube! https://youtu.be/M2238hpyaXw Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari Wasserman Producer: River Bailey   Interested in partnering with the show? Email [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On today's Andy Naurion 3 presented by BetMGM. We're talking Tennessee. The Valls had their spring game on Saturday, and Brent Hub's Ball Quest joins us to break down the quarterback competition between George McIntyre and Faison Brandon, which is very, very interesting coming out of spring practice. Plus, did the changes Tennessee made to its staff set up the Valls for future success? Also, we're going to play a new game called Who Am I?

I give Ari clues. Can he guess the college football great that I am talking about? Also, Billy Napier talks about the differences between James Madison and Florida. Spoiler, he likes the culture better at James Madison. Very interesting comments from the former Gators head coach. We'll talk about it all on today's Andy Nareon 3, presented by Bed MGM. We are brought to you by BedmGM, and if you're not signed up for Betting GM, here's how you do it. With a code that will get you up to a $1,500 first bet offer.

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to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in seven days in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Welcome to Andy and Ari on three, presented by BetMGM. And Ari, our week of quarterback competitions continues. Yesterday we talked Alabama and Florida.

Now we're talking Tennessee. George McIntyre, Faison, Brandon, duke in it out. Spring game was Saturday. Now they've got the offset. season, but that Josh Heppel's not going to make a decision quite yet. He's going to leave us a suspense. I love that it's a pure one. It's a pure quarterback battle between two players signed with the team out of high school. And, you know, one, of course, has to be a five-star

freak of nature and the other has to be the, you know, still similarly rated high prospect who's been in the program, been through a lot, might have a, you know, advantage in experience and trying to see which one is going to be able to sling it down the field the way that Josh Hypole needs him to sling it. Yeah, and that's the thing. This offense needs to be good, but the defense also needs to be better, which is the reason they brought in Jim Nulls is the defensive coordinator. And, you know, we look back two years ago when they made the playoff, Ari, that defense was the big reason they made it,

the defense and Dylan Samson running the ball. The defense let them down last year. So Josh Hypo goes and makes some pretty big changes. and brings him Jim Knowles, who was, you know, Ohio State's defensive coordinator when Tennessee played the Buckeyes in the playoff, and then he was Penn State's last year. So we will find out exactly how different that's going to be. But offensively, we don't know who's going to be pulling the trigger probably until right before the first game. Yeah. And I got to say, Andy, it was a really awesome conversation with Brent Hubbs, who's coming

into contextualize it for us. I thought we talked a little bit about your past, which was fun. we talked a little bit about Tennessee, you know, situation and, of course, the quarterback battle. Tennessee, I think, is one of the more interesting programs, I think, going into the year. What are we going to get from them? Are they going to break out? Are they going to return to the playoff?

Is it going to flop? You know, how are we going to view Josh Heipel a year from now? All these different things from one of the proudest, most robust fan bases in all of college football was an awesome way to spend the first half of the show. Yeah, expectations are still very high. That hasn't changed. but Josh Heipels had to make some changes to try to meet those expectations, and we'll see if it works.

But yeah, Brent Hubbs from VolQuest, one of the best to do it. He joins us now to break down Tennessee's QB competition and all the changes, the Vols of May. We are honored to be joined by one of the people who has helped me the most in my career. The great Brent Hubbs from Valquest. No, Brent Hubbs shepherded a young, baby beat writer Andy Staples at 22 years old, through the Vols beat, through the ups and downs, the corners of getting yelled at by Philip Fulmer on day one. Brett Hubs was there for me the whole time.

I don't know the story, Andy. What did you do to make Philip Fulmer yell at you on day one? Oh, we can tell the story, Ari. Let's tell the story, Brett. Oh, go right ahead. Yes. So I'll set the scene and I'll let Andy tell the story, Ari. So we're outside. We're out back in the old day at Tennessee, before you had to have backdrops with corporate logos and everything else on it, you got players outside of the locker room at their external entrance from the complex. They had a locker room door that took you outside into this little courtyard area. And we used to sit on these stone benches out there and just wait and you requested people, but you ended up having conversations with about anybody that you want. want. So Andy's just trying to figure out where am I supposed to go, right? Like he's the new guy.

There's a bunch of us territorial, you know, I wasn't, I didn't, my hair wasn't as white as it is in this video. But, you know, we knew where we were supposed to be. And here's the new guy, right? And who's the new guy? Well, the new guy is this Florida guy. Well, I mean, think about the timing in which Andy rolls into Knoxville. It is Wednesday of Florida Week. So here's how this job went down. So the Chattanooga Times for Roof Pass posts for a Tennessee beatwriter in the middle of the summer, actually probably in June. And I apply for it, like the day it drops. I hear nothing, hear nothing, hear nothing, hear nothing. On the Sunday of Labor Day weekend, I get a call from the sports center of the Chattanooga Times Free Press.

We've offered the job to several people, and now we're down to you. I was like, great, I'll take it. And so this is this by the time everything gets set up, I get to Chattanooga, get through the HR stuff on, on a Tuesday. Wednesday morning, I roll it in Oxville. Wednesday afternoon, I'm out of practice. And you're allowed to watch practice on the beat. Just you can't report a lot of specifics. But it's wide open, Ari.

You can watch it from start to finish. You're watching two and a half hours of practice. Yeah. So Mark Weidmer, the columnist from the tech. out of New York Times v. Press, introduces me to Philip Fulmer at the end of practice. When Fulmer, so they practiced Fulmer would come talk to us, and then we'd go around the corner and wait for players. And so he introduces me after Fulmer finishes his post-practice scrum, shake his hand, just say hello. And that's it.

I go back around the corner and I'm sitting with these guys. Five minutes later, the door bursts open, like boom. and it's Philip Fulmer. Did you play for Florida? Hubber and I have our suspicions about who dropped the dime. Who are the suspicions? We're not going to say that the person's still working covering an SEC beat. Let's leave it at that.

It literally, it did not take seven minutes from the cordial, hey, welcome to the beat, to the, did you play at Florida and who do you who do you work for because you just watched my team go through the game plan third down installs for florida week and you're going to tell me you played for steve spurrier and you're just watching my practice like what are we doing here and it was game on man we're so and so he said to him and this is i don't i wasn't i've never been particularly quick on my feet, but this was this was the one time. I said, coach, you've had walk on offensive lineman. You know what they go through. How loyal do you think they'd be to you?

And he just laughs. And he's like, oh, we're going to be fine. And everybody went, hey, Andy's going to be okay. Like, all right, welcome to the ball. Andy's going to make it. I'm trying to picture like a 22 year old me because I got, I got, I got, I was pissing my pants. Yeah, I mean, like that's the That was smooth reaction from somebody who should be crying. No, inside I was dying. I was dying. I mean, what year was that? 2000.

So there was a Jabar Gaffney game. Okay. So to put it in context, Ari, I had been covering him on a daily basis since 94, and I started as a 19-year-old. Okay. So I'm the old codger at 25, essentially. But I've been around. and it was just, I mean, part of me was, no offense,

but part of me was like, great, I'm no longer the kid. Now, he's got a new whipping boy in town. Yeah, I mean, they had players who were older than me. Yeah, well, I'm proud of the way that you handled that. Well, if I hadn't handled it well, I probably wouldn't be here right now. I'm probably doing something different. Yeah, but I do love that like the whole paranoia in college football, world is not a new thing, I don't think.

Oh, it had changed a bit. But no, I will always appreciate Philip Fulmer for the way he handled that situation. Because he could have just banned me and said, no, we're not, you're not coming back to our practice. And there wouldn't have been anything I could do about it. Well, it also probably helped you, too, that you were representing a Chattanooga newspaper, too. Like, if you were, like, somewhere. Well, and I, and, and, you know, and I end up talking to him about it later. like, I worked hard to get that job, and I wasn't going to do anything to screw it up.

And so that was, I think people understand that. And so, yeah, he was very, he was really cool with me after that. Well, what's interesting about him is for all the paranoia that coaches have, he did have great appreciation for people who worked and people who built relationships, and tried to learn and went about it the right way. Because when I started Vaulkwest with Shannon at Rivals in 2000, I mean, nobody was getting into practice. Nobody was, I mean, websites weren't allowed to go to practice.

I mean, SIDs were like, websites aren't real media. We're not allowing that to happen. And I had lunch with Philip Fulmer before the spring practice of 2000. and explained to him what I was doing. And he was like, do you really think that's going to work? And I'm like, yeah, I mean, I do. I think it's going to work. I said, but I need access.

And he let me in as a website guy in 2000, which was pretty unheard of at that time. Yeah. But it was because I had covered it through the radio station. He knew who I was. But the easy answer for him at that point would have been, you're out because you're not traditional media. We're not doing this. But he was.

open-minded enough to allow me to continue to do what I had done. And it helped VolQuest get jump started because it gave us credibility because we weren't a fan site who was in our mom's basement doing something. We were at practice every day, just like the regular traditional beat. Hubber, aren't you actually at your mom's house right now? I am. I'm actually at her house currently. I'm not in the basement.

That's right. I want to say, I would love, I don't know. know if this is the time or place, but I'd love to hear how you came to the idea of AllQuest, and hopefully you're forward thinking into how the world was going to work 25, 26 years ago.

Also turned into like a stock or two that you might have bought back then. I don't know, but I'm happy that you're a forward thinker and obviously a legend in the business and so happy you're here to talk. No, no. 25, your math is off. This was spring game number 33 for Brent Huggs.

33. No, but 25 years ago in 2000 was the website. Right. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. A quick synopsis, and then we'll get to the current team. A quick synopsis. I met Shannon Terry at Slotsky's Deli in 1997. Electric.

And we sat down and talked. We were the group of people, and he was doing Alliance sports at that time before, you know, he became rivals and all the generations to where we are now. and he looked at me and he goes, you know, this is what's going to happen. All these kids' highlights are going to be online, you know, games are going to be streamed. They're going to be all this stuff online. And I walked out of Slotskesdelli, and I thought, this guy's absolutely crazy. Like, he's crazy.

I mean, we're all doing modem dial-ups, you know, we got AOL and all this stuff. And he's talking about high school games. You're going to watch him on your computer in 1997. Isn't it kind of crazy? to think like when people like actually think like that how it actually works out for them. Yeah, we all think they're nuts and now we please work for you. It's why I'm back working with him because everything works at. And so a couple of years later, I got a call and said, hey, we would like for you to do to Tennessee site.

And I was doing talk radio and I wasn't going to be the host or the co-host anytime soon. And my wife had a good job. And I said, let's give this thing a spin and see what happens. And 26 years later, here we are. That's exactly right. And so 33 spring games later, we got to talk about what happened in this particular spring game. And I will start with the part everybody's the most interested in because it never ceases to amaze me. If there is a quarterback competition, that is all anybody wants to know about.

George McIntyre, Faison, Brandon. What did we learn? That is a true battle. It's not window dressing. Faison, Brandon, has been very mature. about how he has gone about all this since he arrived in January. And he had a good spring. I think George had a good close to spring.

I think both those guys had good days. Both of them had bad days. And both of them responded to it pretty well. But I think if they played a football game today, they're going to play both of them early because I don't think there's any separation right now. Now, Josh Hypole is not a big two quarterback guys. So I don't think this is going to be, hey, we're going to play two, like, you know, schools have done in the past and let it sort itself out by week three or whatever.

I don't think that'll be his plan. It may play out that way, but that won't be the design. I think the design is to pick a quarterback in August and he's your starter and you go from there. But certainly Faison Brandon has made this a legit competition. I don't think George had the best start to spring ball. I think he closed well. And now it becomes who wins the summer? Because this is when it's made.

Like who goes and wins the summer? Does Faison's mentality change now that he's sitting here going, okay, I can win this job. Because he's house money, right, for the first couple of months. He's in town. Like, I'm the new guy. Yeah, I'll let it rip. And here we go.

Whereas George is sitting here. I mean, think about George's world. George had he didn't play in the bowl game and then he watched him bring in Sam Levitt he heard the rumors of Sorbsby that Tennessee was going to be in the portal for a big name quarterback. They don't get either

one of those so George thinks, okay, I'm the guy and he knows Faison's coming in and then oh by the way, Joey Aguilar is going to go through a lawsuit and he's going to go on his own separate lawsuit. He's going to get an injunction and he's going to try to win another year of eligibility and then about three weeks before spring practice starts,

all that is off the table and now it's back to George. So I think mentally it had to be tough for George in January and February. Maybe that affected him a little bit to start spring practice. I don't know. Maybe he pressed a little bit too much. I'm not sure. But he was okay to start spring, got better as spring ended. Phazon kind of came out of the gates flying pretty quickly in spring for a freshman.

So when you have. as expansive of a history as you do covering Tennessee, you've seen some freaks, you've seen some big time quarterbacks come through there. How can you contextualize like what Freight, Faison Brandon brings from a physical standpoint for somebody as young as he is? Well, he's got, he's six, four, he's two, um, 215, 218 pounds. I mean, from a frame standpoint, in a physical makeup standpoint, you look at him and go, yeah, this is, this is what you want him to look like. I had the pleasure of seeing him compete and go through Tennessee's football camps in back-to-back years. I was there the day that he camped and got his offer full year and a half

before he committed. He was extremely accurate with the football. And he's a guy at camp, that as a young guy jumped off the page at you. And I mean, he's got the physical tools. He can move. He's got good, you know, he's got good vision, it feels like. I mean, from a talent standpoint, point, his talent is undeniable. The question is how well can he manage and execute the offense? We'll see. But just a raw talent standpoint, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't want to place, you know, I don't want to say T. Martin, but I mean, there's a little bit of that kind of resembles some of that. It's a pretty big name. You know, some, you know, does he have some hinden hooker type skills? He's more accurate than T. Martin was coming out of high school.

He's more accurate with the football. He's a better, you know, he's got better. accuracy. I'm not sure he's got the cannon that he had. Does he, you know, a little bit, I didn't see Hendon coming out of high school. You know, I saw Hendon as a 24 year old for the first time. So obviously, physically, he was more developed that way. You know, so, I mean, we'll see. I mean, he's, he can throw it. He's accurate with the ball. And he's not cocky in any way, but he does lose confidence. He does believe, he does certainly believe in himself. And he carries himself like a guy like that. So McIntyre, I know

was pretty slight of frame when he got to campus, but he's had a year and a half in a college weight program and the spring game pictures, I see he looks like he's put on some weight too. So how does he stack up physically? Actually,

he and Faison probably weigh about the same amount. The difference is George is almost 6'7. So to look big, George is going to have to weigh 250 pounds like Ben Rothlisberger did or something like that to ever look girt to ever look big he's always going to look skinny um i think that i think that george can get to 215 to 18 maybe 220 as a playing type weight at best this fall um i think phazon's going to be two like i said he's around

two 13 215 i think he'll be around 218 220 to play that this fall uh but he's going to look bigger because he's a couple inches shorter. You know, so he's going to look more put together that way. You know, the George weight thing has become such a topic and such a thing around here because he just didn't add a ton of weight his first year. But he has really put on a good bit of weight in the last three months or so with the new strength staff and the nutrition plan that they've got for him. And, you know, he knows that narrative about that.

But I don't think Tennessee is going to be afraid to play him because he's too small. It's just going to be a matter of who can process, who can play the game fast enough in this offense. And who's going to be willing to drive the ball down the field? I mean, I just don't think you can win this job being a checkdown guy. Okay. I mean, you're going to have to be willing to throw the ball over the middle. I'm not saying you've got to be a complete gunslinger, but this stuff doesn't work in this offense. If you're just going to check it down a whole bunch and you're going to throw bubbles and you're going to throw wide receiver screen.

Some guy's got to be able to throw a dark. across the middle and make this thing work. That's what Joey did last year. Joey Ake. That's why he won the job because he was not afraid to throw it. You know, now maybe he didn't use the R part in the RPO's, but he was not afraid to throw the football. Yeah, you need to see when that safety's lined up 15 yards deep,

trying to cover a receiver, and you can take that deep shot like that and be willing to throw it. That's what I thought Hinden Hooker did so well. And you're right. Joey did well. The other side of the ball, Brent, I'm very curious because we've seen Jim Knowles go from Oklahoma State to Ohio State. It took a little bit for them to get the scheme. He goes from Ohio State to Penn State. Now, nobody, no top line Ohio State players were leaving at that point. So he had to do it with a bunch of new players. This is different where he's got

some Penn State guys that have come with him that know this defense. How quickly have they gotten this figured out because I know you guys wrote that they were definitely confusing the offense with some of the stuff that they were doing. Well, I think bringing the middle linebacker of Mari Campbell was a huge get because that's the guy that where's the earpiece and he takes the calls from Jim Knowles and he understands all the checks and he knows what Jim Knowles is looking for. So I think there's real comfort there in that he can convey that to the other 10 guys on the field. And he takes a lot of pride in that. I mean, he, he likes being known as the defensive quarterback. That's a big, big deal to him. So I think that's the thing. I think the other thing

that stands out, too, when you look at this, is he also brought Anthony Poindexter with him as an assistant coach. He brought Andrew Jackson with him as an assistant coach. He brought four analysts with him from Penn State who are essentially assistant coaches on the field in specific positions like linebacker and in the secondary. His corners coached Derek Jones coached with him at Duke. And so I think for Jim Knowles, the lesson he learned from Penn State, bring somebody with people with you. Because a year ago at Penn State, they were putting in the installs,

and Jim Knowles was teaching Anthony Poindexter the installs in the morning, or the night before, and Poindexter was teaching it to his players the next morning in meetings before they went to practice. And now Anthony Poindexter doesn't need Jim Knowles to coach him on what the defense is. He knows the defense. And so I think the familiarity that you have with former player or with players that were at Penn State like Amari Campbell, even as Xavier Gillum, who didn't play a ton last year, but it's been a big factor at Tennessee. DeJon Lane is a safety that's got experience there.

so you've got some players who can help coach it to the other players. But the staff members that he brought in with him, I think have sped this process up as well because they know it. They're not having to teach. They're not having to learn it and then turn around and try to teach it all at the same time like they were a year ago at Penn State. When he brought really nobody with him, he brought two analysts with him from Ohio State to Penn State,

and that's it. No players, no assistant coaches. That was not the plan when he made the move this time. It was a deal to him to bring people. All those players about to get drafted in the first round next year. Yeah, they were leaving. They weren't moving. Yeah, they should not have transferred with him, okay?

But I do think that bringing some players sped it up, but I think the bigger thing is bringing some assistant coaches. And I just think if you're a coordinator in this day and age, man, you've got to be able to do that. And it's not about loyalty and protection, but you have so many opportunities to teach installs like in the month of February because you get hands on with your players. If you can hit the ground running, it speeds things up.

And they were really able to hit the ground running because the assistant coaches knew what they were doing and didn't have to learn it on the front end. You know, Brent, I don't know if you know this about me, but I really, really like talking about feelings. And I feel like Tennessee. I love that he's so honest about it, too. I do. I just like, I like talking about narrative and thought process and feelings.

And that's why the VolNation really loves you, right? You know, I think all the time. I don't know. Wall Twitter's a big feelings group, too, though. Let's be real. But I think I'm like a friend of the Volnation still at the moment. I don't know. That's, wait, I haven't done anything.

This podcast is not over yet, Ari. Go ahead. Continue with your question. But like, I haven't. I haven't been on the, I've been celebrated by VolQuest and VolNation and Vol Twitter more recently than I've been on the wrong side of an avalanche. So that's good. And I try to steer clear.

I don't really have very strong opinions of Tennessee. They're intimidating. But the question I have for you, though, is how are they feeling right now about where the program is, what do they want this year and what is success for Tennessee football in 2026 to them? From a fan standpoint? Yes. If I'm, if I'm, if I'm one of the people who is driving.

up without a shirt on 71 up to the playoff and I was sharing the graphics and I am the craziest vault Twitter person. You know, maybe that's not the best because they won a national championship. They're insane. And I mean that and it's a compliment. Don't hurt me. But like, like, how about a middle of the line rational Tennessee fan of like understands that it's a process, isn't going to go crazy, loves Josh Heipel, but like what, like, where are they as a program in terms of what's a reasonable expectation? Well, I mean, I think the, I think, I think, you know, I don't know about reasonable, but I think Tennessee fans, you know, think they should be in contention for the playoffs every year.

Now, is that, you know, is that realistic? I don't know. I mean, maybe if we ever expand the playoffs, yes, but I think they feel like they should be in the hunt for the playoffs. I think with this team, 46 new players and a new staff and all those types of things, I think that for me, the definition is how much better is this team, when Auburn comes to town to kick off the month of October, then they are when they play Furman in week one.

How much does this defense grow and improve? How much does the quarterback take off and move forward? Josh Heppel did something, quite frankly, we weren't real sure where he was at in it, because he had never let anybody go before. You know, he had not made off-season moves like he's made this year from the standpoint of changing a strength coach that had been with him for forever and going out and hiring a guy with instant credibility because he won a national

championship at Indiana as the strength coach. And every player up there gushed about him. But that's a different mentality in the strength and conditioning program than they had. You know, he went out and got a defensive coordinator who's got a ton of experience. and quite frankly, that's a defensive coordinator that forced Tennessee to really evolve offensively after their playoff run, or not run, after their playoff game where they lost Ohio State. And Jim Knowles had Tennessee's offense on their hills the entire night. And, you know, I credit Josh Hepple for doing things to improve his program. He did not stay status quo.

And I think Tennessee fans like that fact, to be honest with you. And I don't mean that they're advocating for firing people all the time. Some people are, but most people are not that way. But I think the fact that Josh Heppel recognized there's another step they've got to get to. And these are two areas where they lack. It's a team that's had some injuries. It's a team that's faded a little bit. They've dropped some games that they shouldn't have later on in the season.

So you make improvements in your strength and conditioning program, get stronger, get bigger, hopefully to be more durable. And then you go and fix a defense that was very poor last year. And so I think that gives Tennessee fans a lot of optimism about the way and the direction Josh Heppel has taken this program right now because he made some critical, tough decisions this off season. And everybody feels like they're better for it in the program. Well, and that's the thing.

I guess I didn't realize it because Josh Hyple still actually fairly young as a head coach. You had a couple of years at UCF and then got the Tennessee job. But this is the first time he's made major changes. And the strength coach thing especially, that is a philosophical change as much as it is a personnel change. So in terms of what you've heard from coaches, from players, how does that manifest itself? How does that the philosophical change manifest itself?

I think it starts with accountability. And I think there's more accountability in that program. and I'm not trying to rip on on Kurt Schmidt, the previous strength coach. But I mean, listen, there's a lot of, I mean, Derek Owens has got a lot of scientific stuff to what he does. He's very hands-on with a nutritionist that he basically went out and hired. And she essentially works for him as he leads to football program, she's a football-only nutritionist. She's not handling other sports.

That was a philosophical change that took place when they made the move here. you know, the thing the thing Owens did that I think is the most fascinating thing of all of this is he comes from Miami right after the national title game, flies to Knoxville, and immediately starts on the job. And he spent the first days on this job. I don't know that he slept, but he spent the first days learning everybody's story and meeting individually with each player. and talking to them about, hey, here's where I see, here's where your numbers are. Here's what I see when I looked at GPS tracking last year. Here's what I see when I evaluate where you are. This is what I think we're going to start here is what I believe your optimal weight will be.

Here's where we're trying to get to from a miles per hour and speed standpoint. And here's the path to do it. And here's your nutrition plan. This is what we're doing for your nutrition. Your nutrition plan is different from everybody else's. It's very tailor-made to the individual. How he got that done in such a short period of time, I don't know.

It seems pretty remarkable to me that he would be able to pull that off. But he knew all kinds of stuff about guys, like guys who were banged up late in the year that were, I mean, it was mentioned, I guess, on an injury report. But like, he knew Sam Pendleton didn't play as well at center down the stretch last year because he was badly an ankle injury and he didn't get to practice as much as he wanted to. He gained a little weight.

and he lost some power and he lost some of his explosiveness. He knew that 72 hours into the job, which is pretty remarkable. And I think that caught the players' attention immediately, and it's created accountability that you're looking for. I mean, the guys at the end of the cafeteria line looking and seeing what people are putting on their plate to eat. Like, he is hands on. I was just going to say, that sounds like a horror story. I mean, he's in the middle of everything.

I mean, I do have that. it's called my wife. But I mean, she can't account for as the pre-dinner wopper. Yeah. Well, and if you're going to a buffet, she's not coming with you.

So Brent, I'm glad you brought this up, however, because we made, this may be a new segment for the show. Like, I play Ari's nutritionist slash strength coach,

and we take him to the buffet, and I just eagleize on his plate the entire time. I just don't think that there's any physical program where a person stands to gain anything by putting only carbs on a plate. So they changed. I mean, there's less fried foods than they used to be there. They've taken sugar drinks out. You know, it's zero sugar stuff.

I mean, he is very, very scientific about all of this. And it's not just a, you know, grunt, towel, waving, hollering, and scream and throw up more weight stuff. That's part of it. But he has a very scientific. scientific approach to this that has created some immediate gains that I think has further helped the credibility that he arrived with having been a national championship strength coach or been a strength coach on a national championship team. And, you know, I was talking to Sam Pendleton. And I asked

Sam Pendleton, who was who was at Notre Dame before he transferred. I said, what did you do? Did you do anything to learn about, you know, Coach Owens or DO, as they call him? He said, yeah, I made one phone call. And he called the Senate at Notre Dame. Who was he? or a center at Indiana, who is his teammate at Notre Dame. He's like, what am I getting? And he told me exactly what I was getting. And so I was ready for it. But it is different.

It is different than it's been at Tennessee in the past. Hubbard cannot wait to see what the ball is turned out. We can't wait to see who they start at quarterback because it's not going to be unknown until August. There's one thing that I thought was kind of funny because I know that like Tennessee fans are kind of to a certain extent hyper-fixated on George McIntyre's like wiry frame, but like, wasn't Nico like the skinniest quarterback you've ever seen? Like, it's like, it's not new.

Like, I mean, he was pretty effective in his year there. So, I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't freak out too much. Maybe add some carbs to that guy. You're not allowed to say nice things about Nico and a Tennessee. No, I know. Oh, God. Are they going to kill me? No, I mean, it was effective in the year that he was there, but he's a rotten backstabber. Like, is that better?

Like, I don't know. There you go. I mean, here's the thing. Go back and look at Eric Gange as a freshman. I mean, he probably. probably was a little thicker than George is, but I mean, it's not like he was 240 pounds at 6-6, right? There was a guy who's in the Hall of Fame that I saw roll into town in 1994 that

looked like he had never shaved before and Peyton Manning that ended up playing that year. I mean, I mean, Peyton was probably a little thicker, but I mean, yeah, I mean, I think sometimes you get fixated on stuff. And the issue with George from the fan's perspective is he had been here a year. year and he didn't look any different. And so the question is, why can't he put on a pound? Like, everybody goes to college and puts on 10 pounds, right? I mean, Hey, Hubbard, let Ari pick his food. He'll be $2.45 overnight. No, living at the chocolate fountain at the end of the buffet line, baby. That's exactly right,

just scooping it out. I don't know what your guys with college experience was, but like my freshman food card took me to a mall food court. every day. So, like, I don't know. Some people have, like, cafeterias in their dorms. We had to, like, walk five minutes down the road, and it was Papa Johns and McDonald's and all these different things that wasn't a traditional, like, like, you're telling me I can have as many filial fish sandwiches as I want, and I don't have to pay for it. That wasn't a good recipe for my freshman 60, I think. Meanwhile, meanwhile, Andy was at the gator training table eating. Yeah.

Right. They had a chocolate milk fountain, Hover. When I saw that chocolate milk fountain, It was over. It was over. So, I mean, to answer your question, Ari, I mean, I think it's easy to fixate on that because he looks really skinny and he looked really skinny last year. I don't think that, I think that nobody really truly believes, oh, he's too skinny to play college football. I mean, that's just not the case.

So it's a matter of him going out and executing and he's going out and managing the pressure of trying to win the job because he knows who's behind him. Who's behind him as a freshman? And so if you're him, you're probably thinking, this is my window to go win it. If I don't win it this offseason, when do I win it without somebody getting hurt? And I think that creates some restlessness, you know, probably. And I think how you manage that will be interesting. He went through a high school competition when he was a sophomore at Brentwood Academy

and beat out some older guys. So he's been in somewhat of a competition. College is obviously different than your sophomore year of high school. I mean, Faison's not been through one, which is why we're all curious to see now that he, you know, has a legit shot at winning this thing. How does he go through it? Because he was just kind of always the guy when he was coming up through high school. Well, we will find out. Brent Hubs, thank you so much for joining us.

It's always a fun trip down memory lane for you. I'm not sure anybody's really interested in anything down memory lane, Andy, but it is always... I thought that was a great story. I think that the Lutz will enjoy it. People like hearing about me getting yelled at by famous college football coaches. Well, I listen, if you've been in this business for any period of time and you haven't been yelled at by a college coach, basketball football, then you've not been doing your job the right way.

We've all been there. And the earlier you get it, the earlier you get it out of your system, Andy, the better it off. Yeah, Andy's first yell, though, was just him existing. Listen, if you don't like it, you can. go to the Kmart. Brent Hubbs knows. Balls, if you know, you know what I'm talking about.

But remember, when you were the Saturdays, you weren't the first choice, but you were the right choice. That's right. That's right. If you know, you know, Andy. That's right. Thanks, Brad. All fans know, that's for sure. That is Brett Hubbs, and yes, the Philip

Fullmer yelling at me story. Never gets old. You're a spy. Your genesis as a career. What's interesting is, You're responding. The following year, when Tennessee played at Florida, and the game got moved to December because of 9-11, I actually did go down to Florida and covered some of their practices

early in that week because there's such a big game. And so you wanted as much content from both sides as you could get. And if I'd wanted to tell anybody about anything, that's where I probably would have said, I think Florida is a little overconfident going into this game. And Tennessee pulled off a shocker of an upset in that game, not because they realized anything. It was just they were a really good team.

And I don't think Florida at that point fully appreciated how good that Tennessee team with John Henderson and Albert Hainsworth and Jason Whitten and Scott Wells really was. Pretty good players you just listed there. The thing that I'm very amused by, and you played, Florida as a walk on, so you have a pretty elevated understanding of the way that offense works and defense works, right, from an X as an O standpoint. But how much, even let's just like pretend you were a spy for a second and you watched them practice. If you were to call Steve Spurrier on the

phone the next day and tell him everything you saw, how big of an advantage or a break or anything do you think Florida could have gleaned from your thought process? Very little. If I saw a specific trick play, something they hadn't shown a way they were using a player that they hadn't used him in that way before, that's the only thing you could actually pass along because they have film on everything else. They already know what you do. And Andy, that's the thing that's so amusing to me.

Even if your worst nightmare came true, Philip Fulmer, it still wouldn't have made a difference. Well, hey, look, he was. cool about it. And listen, the Tennessee fans in that particular game that happened that Saturday, that's the one where Jabbar Gaffney gets credit for catching the ball at the end, Tennessee fans will forever believe he did not catch it, that it should have been ruled incomplete. And it was a bang, bang, call. So that was just, it was, that was an interesting time in the Tennessee, Florida rivalry just those next few years. Because you had, you had that game, you had the 2001 one game where Tennessee upsets.

I thought the 2001 Florida team was Steve Spurger's best team at Florida, but Tennessee beats them. Tennessee goes the SEC championship game instead of them. And then a couple weird games involving Ron Zook, culminating with the Dallas Baker slap game in 2004 that

Tennessee wins. And it was a very interesting time. And then Urban Meyer gets hired at Florida and that changed the tone of everything. But it was a fun time to cover Tennessee when I was up there. And they were loaded. They had some dudes.

I mean, you were also starting on the beat during the time where they were like at peak Tennessee, right? Yeah, they were really good. And it was one of those where nine wins and even 10 wins wasn't necessarily good enough. Like the 2001 team should have won the SEC championship game. It should not have lost LSU. It should have played Miami for the national title. I don't know that anybody would have competed with that Miami team in the Rose Bowl. but that Tennessee team would have come the closest because they had the players to do it.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I like memory lane. And I think that hopefully the people listening to the show appreciated the picturing you. And I got to say, props to you, Jim Trustle once said that I clearly have never played football before in a news conference. Do you remember when Terrell Pryor was on Ohio State's team and they played at Iowa? Mm-hmm. And I don't know if they showed this on TV. It's been what?

I think it was 2011 or 2010 because it was before Bressel. And I saved up all my money that week and I drove my dad's car from Columbus to Iowa City to cover that game. And before halftime, Terell Pryor snapped at Tressel on the sideline. And I think it was as they were walking into the locker room. So I don't know if it was on the broadcast, but you saw it from the press box. And it was a big deal. like he like yelled at him in his face and then walk into the locker room which was not something that you were typically seeing a player due to jim trusel or any coach of that stature from that matter

and i was in the postgame news conference and i think i was like the ninth or tenth question and no one asked him about it and i was like so i asked him you know like this is what a journalist does right like i'm 21 years old you saw something crazy happen i would like some context for because i'm sure people saw it want an explanation and he went on this like jim trussle never yelled But he had a very long word salad. I'm not mad at you. I'm just disappointed. It was a three minute condescending word salad of like,

I'm an idiot. And he goes, you know, obviously in the heat of battle, if you've played football, you've obviously never played. Like, just like taking digs at me. And like,

I went back up to the press box. And I'm just like, this famous coach that I don't even know yet. I've been here for like an hour is already like talking shit to me. in a news conference. And it, like, it, like, ruined my day and my trip. And I was like, oh, he noticed you.

That's good. And anyway, it is kind of funny to think that, like, I don't think in that, I'm just trying to remember about how I felt when that happened, how I would not have been able to have reacted as cool as you did when. I didn't have a choice. Homer was like famous, man. Yeah, it was basically, am I going to be able to do this job or not? And I had to decide in that moment, can I do this or not?

And you had, so you had to think. And trust me, I'm not normally that quick on my feet as, as listeners to the show understand. So it was a, yeah, that was one of those moments like, hey, and I understood completely where he was coming from. And that's the thing. I felt bad. And I talked to, you know, the sports information director and all the other people, I was like, listen, if he doesn't want me showing up at practice the rest of this week, that is fine. I don't mind. I understand.

And they were cool about it. They really were. But yeah, that's the thing. I think people have these ideas about, especially these coaches, that they're just, they're very different people. And you have to understand where they're coming from, the job they're trying to do.

And if you do, if you can kind of meet them where they are, it helps a lot. Yeah. And being a coach is life or death every day. So like I do, like the amount of pressure that you're on. Especially for Phil, I mean, thinking about that situation, Phil, Fulmer, they have lost a bunch of years in a row to Florida at that point.

And it's gotten very frustrating. Like, they were supposed to go win the year before, and Alex Brown Sachs T. Martin five times. Like, it's gotten to the, they had won in 98. They'd broken through, but then the 99 game was just as frustrating as 97 or 96 or 95. And so they're just trying to make that a wrong. real rivalry and not be snake bit against them. And Producer River being a good producer just points out,

this is the first time since 1989 that Florida and Tennessee don't play. Yeah. It's weird because divisional play made them rivals. They didn't play very much before that. Despite being the same conference, they did not play one another very much before that. So it was the two divisions that made them rivals. And now that they don't have the divisions anymore,

or well, maybe they won't be. It's sad. Sad story. All right. All right. Let's walk back down memory lane in another way. We've got a new segment. I think we can have some fun with this one because we're going to have times when you are the one asking the questions and sometimes where I am the one asking the questions.

But I want to test Ari's college football knowledge. I also want to test your college football knowledge. How many questions will it take? Who am I? That's right, Derek Zoolander. Who am I? I thought for a second I was having an ad playing in the background. I like I'm from ESPN or something, but yes.

Questions will it take for you to answer this question, for you to identify this very, very famous former college football star? So are we ready, Ari? I'm so bad at history, so it just depends on how far back you go, but I am ready. It may take you along, you know, a bunch of questions. So, but by all means, everybody who's listening, watching, let me know in the comments, if you're seeing this on social media, or if you are listening to the show or watching

the show on YouTube, hit me up on social media and you tell me how many questions did it take you to get this? And did you beat Ari? Are you smarter than an eighth grader or college football? Are you smarter than an Ari? That's the segment right there. Maybe we change the title. Are you smarter than an Ari?

All right. here we go. Question one. Or no, it's not questions. They're not questions. They're clues. These are the clues. Clue number one.

I couldn't play football until high school because I was too heavy for youth leagues. Ari Wasserman. Probably true. Also, Andy Staples. But no. The answer. Not correct. Okay.

Clue two. I weighed 270 pounds my senior year of high school. That could be anybody. Okay. We get more specific as we go. Yes. Clue three. I was the number 11 overall pick in the NFL draft.

Okay. Keep going. Clue number four. I now own a marijuana dispensary called Dank 1848. I don't know. Clue number five. I rushed for 1,863. and 18 touchdowns as a college freshman.

So now you know what position he played. Okay. I don't know, but I think I'm getting there. Okay. Okay. Clue number six. I gained 773 rushing yards in my most productive NFL season. Okay.

Keep going. Clue number seven. I won the Heisman trophy. I don't know. Clue number eight. The second, third, and fourth place finishers. when I won the Heisman were Georgia Tech quarterback Joe Hamilton, Virginia Tech quarterback Michael Vic,

and Purdue quarterback Drew Breeze. We asked that one more time, sorry. I know it's not good podcasting. The second, third, and fourth place finishers when I won the Heisman trophy were Georgia Tech quarterback Joe Hamilton, Virginia Tech quarterback Michael Vic, and Purdue quarterback Drew Breeze. I don't know.

You still don't know? Uh-uh. There's people. yelling at their car radio right now. This is the last clue I'm going to give you. If you don't get this, it's on you. Okay. I am the number two

all-time rusher in college football, though I probably should be number one. Former San Diego State running back Dorenell Pumphrey gained 6,405 yards in 54 games. I gained 6,397 yards in only 43 games.

Is it Ron Dane? ding-ne-d-ding-ding-ding. You got it. Good job. Okay. Took you nine clues. Yeah. It was the Drew Breeze-Hisman one that helped me.

That's where I figured you'd get it, because we've already said what position he played, and that narrows you down to the year. Look how giant that guy was. But I didn't know any of those facts, and I didn't realize that he didn't have that great of an NFL career. I don't think I realized that either I was I was very surprised by that

I knew he was picked high in the draft because I thought that I thought that I was going to throw that out there I don't know anything about his marijuana dispensary ownership or and I didn't know that he was too heavy to play high school football I didn't know any of that either I learned that today see that's the thing I like

I wanted to throw some because the dispensary thing I bet there's some Wisconsin fans that didn't that's it they knew that immediately because they already knew the name of it but which which clue because you did say there are people screaming at their TV. What clue did you think was going to give it away for me? The one that said who finished second, third, and fourth in the Heisman,

because that tells you what year he won the Heisman. Yeah. I also think there's a lot of Wisconsin fans that would know based on the freshman year rushing total. Yeah. Ron Dane was that dude. That's all. Think about the Donnell Pumfrey thing. He's got like 100 more yards and he played 11 more career games.

I think Ron Dane was. when he played, they didn't count bowl games too. So, like, Ron Dane should be the all-time leading rusher in college football. Okay, so from now on, when we do this, because I'm going to ask you the clues next time, that was fun. And I really like to, like, you're really good at this. Did you just, like, come up with a random player in your head and then just Google facts about him? Not random. Because there is news involving the best offensive lineman on those teams that Ron Dane played on.

Okay. So the best offensive lineman on those teams, was Chris McIntosh. He was a first round draft pick of the Seattle Seahawks. He then, as everybody knows, went on to become the Wisconsin athletic director. He is leaving Wisconsin for a job in the Big Ten office. And I wanted to ask you about this, Ari, because I think it's an interesting discussion for us to have.

We've talked about Chris McIntosh. We've talked about the decision to fire Paul Chris, the decision to not hire Jim Leonard, the decision to hire Luke Fickle, the support of Luke Fickle. from an NIL standpoint. We've talked about all this stuff on the show. What does this mean for Luke Fickle now that the AD that has hired him is gone? I mean, I feel like I can't get much more dire for him at this point. I don't know.

I thought that they did a pretty good solid by him, the administration, by at least acknowledging that some of the shortcomings of the Wisconsin football program was not a direct result of Luke Fickle's incompetence. Chris McIntosh absolutely fell on the sword this time last year, or not this time last year, but in November of last year. And whether he, the question is whether he deserved to or not, it might have been all his fault. He took all the blame for it, basically saying, because I had this conversation with Chris McIntosh the day they put out the statement saying, hey, we're keeping Luke Fickle. He's going to be our coach next year. and he was very up front saying,

hey, I didn't read what was going to happen with an IL correctly. I didn't raise enough money. I didn't do enough. And his thing was give Luke Fickle another chance. Don't just bail on him. And I think that that's like kind of a great play. Because everybody, Wisconsin, I mean, like you hear the loudest Wisconsin fan there is, Big Cat talking about it.

and how finished he was when he came on our show last year to discuss it. And like the only way to give him a good faith opportunity to try one more time when everybody's already out is by taking blame. So like I give McIntosh credit for that. But when you ask me, what does it mean for Luke Fickle? I think it means that you need to perform or at least have a much better season this year or you're gone. Yeah. And the other thing that I don't know.

and I think that the transfer portal is very tricky to read sometimes because we get in this business very caught up on the Cam Coleman transfers and the big time in the Sam Levitts. I think it's very hard to know for sure the classes that a program has signed until you actually see them play sometimes. And just because Wisconsin hadn't really made any huge splashes in the portal that made us want to go live immediately, doesn't mean that they didn't use more money and recruit better replacements. They definitely did use more money. That's something that like Pete Nacos and I learned from agents this offseason is the offers coming from Wisconsin were far more competitive than they had been in previous years. If you're a Wisconsin fan in the moment and you look at the class that they wound up in in the portal, are you juiced or are you cautiously optimistic? Or are you just a point?

You're praying that Colton Joseph stays healthy, the quarterback that they got from Old Dominion. Which also hasn't been on Luke Fickle's side. Injury luck with the quarterback position has been a good thing for him. Tyler Van Dyke, game three, Billy Edwards Jr., game one. And here's the thing, too. I think that our opinions change so much about coaches on a given basis annually. And it's like how much did Luke Fickle go from being one of the hot, shot coaches who took Cincinnati to the playoff to sucking at his job.

Like, I don't think there's as much change on an annual basis of who's good and who's bad at their job as the results on the field indicate. So, like, if you think that Luke Fickle is just in over his head and can't do it, like, I don't think that Luke Fickle could go somewhere else that goes out and gets players and spends more and have a lot of success. So the question becomes, is Luke Fickle the right fit for your program? and what is he doing wrong or what can he learn from in his next opportunity? Because I don't think that he's a terrible coach.

I just think it's gone terribly for him at Wisconsin. And I don't know if there's anything that's happened in the off season that makes me go into next year thinking this is going to be immeasurably different. What I do think is the one point that I think you've made in the past on the show that I think is really important is last year was an absolute dumpster fire of a season. And Wisconsin finished really strong when things were really dire. And I think that that's a pretty... That went against Washington.

Yeah. There's no reason they should have been able to be Washington last year the way that they were playing. And they did. So, like, I have a history with him. You know, I covered him as a defensive coordinator at Ohio State. I was my second year on the beat when he took over as the interim coach, when the trestle-tadgate stuff happened.

And, like, I think that it's been cool to see his evolution as a coach. And I know that, like, you know, I actually kind of felt bad for him because I bet if you asked him in an honest moment, like what his dream job would be, it would probably be to the head coach of Ohio State. And I thought that throwing him into the fire there to kind of coach a team that was a zombie team that lost half their roster or their most important players to the suspensions, maybe ruined his chance of ever achieving that dream. And then watching him go to Cincinnati and be awesome and make the playoff and have really good teams and stuff. Like I had a lot of respect for him and the coach that he is.

Um, that said, I think that if I were a Wisconsin fan, I would be ready for a change too. And I think that he would acknowledge that. So, um, what will you do in this big year? Certainly, I think is a huge, huge thing for his future. But if you're a first year athletic director who understands NIL and, you know, is, is looking at how much you spent versus how much other people spent in the results. Like I, I think it would be very easy to move on from him, a year from now or two years from now, even, if things don't, not just turn around, but turn into a good team again. because they've been so good my entire life.

So consistently good. And it's got to be frustrating for the fans. They, their concerns throughout the most of the teens were how do you get from a 9 to 10 win per season team to an 11 to 13 win per season team? Like, they weren't even thinking about this. Like, how do you get bowl eligible again?

And so, but I do, I'm curious to see because they did put more money in, whether that works or not. They do have some exciting young players like Mason Poston and Cooper Catalano, the two linebackers were revelations at the end of last season. So there's a chance that they can get at us. But I won't point out to you this, Ari. So now you have no AD.

You also have no president. Their president stepped down to become the president at Columbia. And then no president of the University of Wisconsin system right now. So, like, if I were Chris McIntosh, the AD, this would be the time to get out because the next person they hire might not want me. And then you try to figure out, okay, they're going to keep it in the family, how much these people care about sports? Because the previous president was not as active in athletics as presidents at other schools. Like, how much does that matter? So all of this stuff is going to be.

going to affect Luke Fickle. Now, if he wins enough, it won't matter. Nothing will affect him. It'll be fine. It's a question if you hit that kind of cut line area, wherever that is, then it's going to depend on who they hired as the AD. It's going to depend on who they hired as the president. There's a lot, you know, moving parts.

The thing I always think about with Lou Fickle, Andy, is during the time and where he took the job, he could have had his pick of some other jobs, right? And I don't remember at the time. Was Michigan State a team that wanted him in the moment? Yes, they were. But I don't even know who else. He turned them down.

So the year Mel Tucker took the job, Fickle had turned them down. But if Fickle would have stayed at Cincinnati for another year, and there would have been some other jobs that opened, he might have been able to find himself in a more advantageous fit for him. Wisconsin's identity is a really different. thing to wrap your arms around in the NIL era. Because Wisconsin was so good for so long doing things one way. And I don't know if they can maintain their identity doing it the old way now,

which put him in a position to not only take over at a place that expected to make the playoff, but had to exist in a whole new way during the beginning of the evolution of the sport during a time in which Luke Fickle never really ran his teams that way. So, like, can't you see how many different places a person, a very good coach could trip in that circumstance. Like, I don't know if it was the, if Wisconsin is just going through an identity crisis during a time in which anybody would be going under that same identity crisis because of the circumstances of the rules. And who are they?

Like, who are, like, everybody criticizes. Who am I? But like, everybody criticized more difficult because no one knows who Wisconsin is right now. But what coach, maybe I'm overthinking this. But like what coach would go there and have a firm identity because they were always going to be lost in the wilderness unless they had Ron Dane in the backfield and four for future first round offensive linemen? And they ran for 275 yards a game. But can you do that now? Is that what you return to?

Do you depart from it? Maybe. I don't know. It's hard. But I don't think that's what they're planning on trying to do this year. I do think they're trying they will try to run the ball more. Colton Joseph, the quarterback is a really good. runner. So you're going to get some quarterback run game too. But it is going to be fascinating to

watch. And again, tons of moving parts because AD president, system president, all have to get hired. All right. One more thing before we go. Very interesting story in USA Today by Matt Hayes with Billy Napier. The headline, Billy Apier, there's new edge of JMU, the culture he never had at Florida. And I'm going to read you the money quote from this story. Please. I just want to get your reaction to this. This is the first time in my career, I have

inherited a positive culture, confidence among players, and alignment top to bottom. Maybe you're set. Go ahead. Your thoughts. I've got some thoughts. I wouldn't have said that. I don't think I would have said that if I were in. No, probably not.

Yeah. Probably bad idea. Yeah. I can bite you in the ass two different ways, by the way. Oh, yeah. One way is if you don't win now, then what happened? Yeah. You know why they're culturally aligned at JMU?

Because Kurt Signetti and Bob Chesney were the two coaches before you. Yeah. They didn't fire the last guy. The last two guys got better jobs. Yeah. And you're supposed to go if you're, you're it's like hiring a plumber and the plumber says this is the nicest toilet i've ever seen no the plumber's supposed to make the toilet nice that's your job like i just like that's quite literally what the millions what did it all it's yeah it's like i want a nice i don't no one calls a plumber when their plumbing's working already well unless the plumber leaves to go to ucla which is what happened so i don't know yeah the other way it can bite him the asses of John Summerall wins at Florida, of course.

But I would argue there's a lack of awareness there in that, well, of course, Florida wasn't super aligned culturally when he got there. They fired the previous coach for a reason. Yeah. You know, the other thing that kind of irks me, and I don't know if it's just quit saying things that made sense in 2008 and 2020. It's like if you go to a place that's rotten or, you know, isn't culturally aligned or, you know, administratively aligned, it might have taken four or five years to weed out all that stuff in 2010. Now, and Kurt Signetti did it in Indiana. Like the person that you replaced basically, your two, two coaches removed, but very short time periods. Yeah.

Martin Tosney also has one at the level two. And won the national title. It's like you are the culture installer and you can install it faster than it. It's like if you're retiling your kitchen, you can get the tiles overnighted to you from Indonesia now. That said, you're also you're also now a couple of years removed

from Kurt Signetti. Bob Chesney's gone. Alonza Barnett, the quarterback who helped them win the Sunbelt and go to the playoff last year. He plays for UCF now. Like, you actually have to do this. and the other part of this is it is not you taking over a place where the person got fired. Your job is to win the way those guys won.

They just made the playoff. They just won the Sunbelt. If you don't win the Sunbelt, they're going to be mad at you. Yeah. But he is Sunbelt Billy, so, you know. That's just cruel. That's wrong. No, he's another person too.

It's like, I would not surprise me if he was highly successful at JMU. Like he's already shown. That is the correct level for him. Yeah. And he was very good at Louisiana Lafayette. Yeah. So it just, you can fix things at a rate that you could not fix things in the past now. Your job was to correct those things.

But this is the part I would be concerned for him is that he has not. shown to be super fast at those things. He tends to be more deliberate. Now, he's done some things differently at JMU. Like, he hired an offensive coordinator. That's what he

didn't do at Florida. At any point, he hired Cam Aiken to run the offense. So, perhaps he has learned from the mistakes he made at Florida, but if JMU only runs out 10 players on a field goal block team,

or has two guys in the same number on the punt team first game. It's going to be interesting. Yeah. Well, we'll see how it goes, but you're already, you know, throwing a match on some gasoline in Gainesville when you say something like that. And then now you're, you're also making. I don't think he cares about that. He's dealt with enough abuse from those folks already.

And he got the buyout and he's gone. But it's actually a pretty good job that he landed in. though. It is a really good job he landed in. There's a lot of pressure though. I, and that's, I will be curious to see how he handles that and how can he keep them at the level they've been at because they've been in an exceedingly high level, which we know why now. I mean, what we've seen from Kurtzignette in Indiana, it makes perfect sense as to why they were as good as they were for as long as they have. The sun built Kalin DeBoer now. He's got to replace the coat. It's just like a wild, wild situation there.

Because it's like, you know, what if JMU was just awesome because they had two, like, what if, you know, Bob Chesney may go to UCLA and be incredible. Yeah, we don't know that yet. Like Chesney has won at Division III, Division II, FCS and FBS already. But if Billy Napier also does really well at JMU,

he might also be a candidate for another power job again in the future. So I understand. And that's the thing. If he shows that he learned from what happened, but I just think it's so funny. to talk about better alignment when he essentially got a blank check at Florida. He got more money than Steve Spurrier ever got, more than Urban Meyer ever got to fill out of staff. He got the building none of those guys ever had.

He got all of it, all of it. But no, they didn't have the alignment top to bottom. That was the problem. Yeah. Oh boy. Man. I love these these off-season interviews.

They keep things spicy. Yeah. I mean, I understand, too. It's like he probably feels like he was wrong. Everybody does when they get fired. Yeah, when they get fired. For sure. No one ever goes, yeah, I'm the problem.

It's human nature. Taylor Swift did. Yeah. And look what happened. She's in love now. exactly you just you just meet the tight end of your dreams are you know i work out in a gym with the person that uh uh owns the chiefs and she asked me a very good question at the gym last week and she's like hey i was thinking about this who do you think plays the music at taylor swift's wedding

and i was like that that's an interesting question i've never thought about that haim Do you go DJ or do you hire somebody? No, no, your friends. Like, I, Haim, the band that she's worked with in the past. Like, your friends come in and do it. Okay. But then you'd want your friends to be athletic. Chris Stapleton, who she's collaborated with before.

Yeah, you have to hire somebody that you've made, that it's either famous already, but doesn't, that wouldn't have been invited to your wedding. Do you imagine if Chris Stapleton played your wedding? It would be incredible. I don't have friends in those highs of places, but I'm assuming that Taylor does. But if I were Chris and I'd be like, why am I invited to this? They come in, they play some, they play some of their songs. Taylor joins them for a little nobody, no crime, looks right at Travis.

Like, you better behave, buddy. Yeah. That'd be a hell of a wedding you get invited to. You got an end. You could be the plus one. I don't think I'm, I don't think I have it in to the Taylor Swift. Travis Kelsey wedding. But maybe somebody out there does.

Help me get a ticket. I don't know. Is there a ticket to nothing? I don't think they're selling tickets. I think it's invite only, maybe. Okay, yeah. You are all delighted to come back tomorrow. Mega board Wednesday.

What is burning up the message boards and in a week where you're coming off a bunch of spring games and heading into a bunch of big spring games, we're going to have a lot of angst on the message board. Talk about it all in more.