Andy & Ari On3 - The AFTERMATH at Michigan following Sherrone Moore’s firing, detainment

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

As the last 24 hours in Ann Arbor, Michigan, have been a whirlwind, Andy & Ari gather the latest intel and assess what is going on at the University of Michigan’s athletic department. Following the firing and detainment of head coach Sherrone Moore, there seem to be more questions than answers in Ann Arbor. Watch here as Andy & Ari dissect this situation while going through the list of candidates to be the next head coach at Michigan. (0:00) On Today’s Episode(0:54) Presenting Sponsor(2:38) Intro: Aftermath at Michigan with Sherrone Moore’s firing(8:20) Why we didn’t discuss this Michigan case sooner(17:33) Gametime(18:43) Michigan Coaching Search: Kalen DeBoer, Alabama HC(25:40) Kenny Dillingham, Arizona State HC(30:40) Jesse Minter, LA Chargers DC(34:00) Jedd Fisch, Washington HC(38:11) PJ Fleck, Minnesota HC(40:10) Manny Diaz, Duke HC(42:55) Army-Navy Game(46:37) Bucked Up LA Bowl: Boise St vs Washington(47:00) Notre Dame’s Opt out of the Pop-Tarts Bowl(56:20) Bowl Blazers(58:19) Pronounce: ‘Ballon D’or’(1:01:22) Conclusion: What do you call your relatives? After dissecting the situation in Ann Arbor, Andy & Ari turn their attention to who replaces Sherrone Moore at Michigan. Is Kalen DeBoer a legitimate candidate? Would Kenny Dillingham leave Arizona State? Is Jedd Fisch a possibility? What about other guys like PJ Fleck and Manny Diaz? All these candidates and more are discussed. Don't miss America's Game - Army v Navy - December 13 at 3pm ET  goarmy.com  While Notre Dame has also been a topic of conversation, a fan sends in a question on the Irish and the opt-out of the Pop-Tarts Bowl. This question reminds Andy of the recent Florida State-Georgia Orange Bowl in 2023 and the 2011 Champs Sports-Bowl between Notre Dame and Florida State. To close, Andy has Producer River and Ari attempt to pronounce ‘Ballon D’or’ - who will pronounce it better? A great mailbag episode before the weekend you don’t wanna miss! Send your mailbag questions in to:[e-mail]@on3.com Don't miss America's Game - Army v Navy - December 13 at 3pm ET  goarmy.com This show is also brought to you by Gametime! Take the guesswork out of buying college football tickets with Gametime.Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code STAPLES for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Swipe. Tap. Ticket. Go. Download the Gametime app today! Visit Gametime.co. Our show is presented by BetMGM! If you haven’t signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code CFB and you will get up to a $1500 First Bet Offer on your first wager with BetMGM! Here’s how it works: 1. Download the BetMGM app and sign-up using bonus code CFB.2. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game.3. You will receive up to $1500 in bonus bets if your bet loses! Just make sureyou use bonus code CFB when you sign up! Make this college football season one for the history books. Make it legendary. See BetMGM.com for Terms. 21+ only. US promotional offers not available in New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER (Available in the US). Call 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP (AZ), 1-800-327-5050 (MA), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR). First Bet Offer for new customers only. Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Join On3 today and get one full year of access to The Athletic included! https://www.on3.com/subscribe/C Watch our show on YouTube! https://youtu.be/DRVIZnb7Wu0 Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari WassermanProducer: River Bailey Interested in partnering with the show? Email [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On today's episode of Andy Nareon 3 presented by BetMGM more on the continuing saga at Michigan. What next for Sharon Moore, who at the end of Wednesday night, was in custody. What next for Michigan in terms of hiring a new coach? Who hires the new coach? Because I think there's some questions that need to be asked about the leadership in the Michigan Athletic Department as well that need to be addressed sooner rather than later. Also, who's a real candidate? Who's not? This is one of the biggest jobs in the country. Who has a realistic shot at getting it?

Plus, your question's answered. We got a good one about Notre Dame. That's not over yet either. And what happens next with Notre Dame, the college football playoff, and why they skipped a bowl game. We talk about it all on Andy and Ari on 3, presented by BEDMGM. We are presented by BEDMGM. We use BEDMGM lines and total. and you can join us by joining BedMGM. If you have not signed up for BetMGM yet, use the bonus code CFB as in college football, CFB, and you'll get up to a $1,500 first bet offer on your first wager with BedMGM. Here's how that works.

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Make it legendary with BetMGM. See Betmgmgm.com for terms. 21 plus only U.S. promotional offers are not available in New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler. in the U.S. call 8778 Hope N.Y or text Hope N. Y. 4673369 in New York. Call 1-800 next step in Arizona. Call 1-800-327-50-0-0-0 in Massachusetts. Call 1-800 bets off in Iowa or 1-8001-81-0-2-3 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only, subject to eligibility requirements, rewards are non-withdrawable bonus

bets that expire in seven days in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and, hotel. Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use the bonus code CFB and get your $1,500 first bet offer today. Welcome to Annie and Ari on 3 presented by BetMGM and Ari, we have a lot to discuss with Michigan. Still, we did 45 minutes live as things were happening on Wednesday, but we did it pretty quickly after Sharon Moore was fired. And so a lot of things happened again. And we have the internet, just like the rest of you.

So we've seen some of the more salacious things that are out there. We're not going to get into that necessarily because there's certain things that we can't prove or can't confirm. But we can confirm, and it is proven and has been announced, that Sharon Moore ended Wednesday night in police custody, in the Washington County Jail in Michigan, the Pittsfield Township Police Department sent out of press release saying that a suspect had been detained on suspicion of assault charge

and that the Washington County prosecutors will be examining potential charges. And that, you know, if you use the dates and the times, that that corresponds to Sharon Moore. So that is wild. I mean, think about this. Tromore woke up Wednesday morning as the head football coach in Michigan. And Wednesday night, he was fired and in jail. Yeah, I can't think of a worst 24 hours.

And that doesn't even take into account maybe the most important thing here, which is his family. So like that, when crazy things like this happen, I think that we lose sight of, you know, this is actually happening to real normal people and children. Yes. And like that. Which is another reason why we're not going. going to speculate on details that cannot be confirmed. You know, and most people here have families.

They can understand, you know, how serious that is. And even if you don't, I was actually like becoming anxious last night reading the internet. So it was a really, really rough 24 hours for Sharon Moore. And based on my understanding of the situation, I think that he's to blame for all of it. but also people in this circumstance that aren't to blame are probably having a rough 24 hours, too. That includes his family in Michigan's football program. Yeah, and there are a lot of questions. So Michigan now needs a head coach.

We talked about potential candidates. We're going to talk more about potential candidates on this show. But there's something else we didn't really talk about yesterday that I would like to get into, and it's not something we can have a really specific discussion about yet because we don't know all the facts yet. But we can say that given everything that's happened, I would imagine that the people in charge at Michigan, and I mean the people that are above Athletic Director Ward Manual, need to do a pretty thorough investigation of who in the athletic department knew what and when

and determine what the best course of action is going forward. because as we pointed out, these rumors have been out there for a long time. We first heard about it in August. People in Ann Arbor had heard about them long before that. Clearly, it was pretty common knowledge that there were these rumors out there. And that's not much you can do acting upon them if you're a player on the team. But if you are the Michigan Athletic Department, that is something you should act upon. So I am very curious to hear the answers and the time.

timeline of what was investigated when, why did they decide Wednesday that he was fired? Now, I will say, if we're going to have conspiracy theories about when you decided to fire him, I don't necessarily think this is a case of, you know, you had Sharon Moore coach through the season and you were trying to decide if he won enough games for you to keep him. Because if that was the case, if let's say they'd said, oh, we know something's going on, but we're going to see if we're going to push that to the side or not if he's really good. Well, if you decided you weren't going to keep him and you wanted to get rid of him and this gave you an excuse to fire him for free, you would have done that two weeks ago.

You would not have waited until after national signing day. Right. Like you said at the beginning of the show, we have internet, you have internet, we've seen it. You know what I did see? a lot of people on Twitter detailing exactly what was occurring weeks ago. And that's not to say that everything that you read online is trustworthy or that everybody should be taken, you know, at face value. But what it is to say is that if there were people on Twitter who were repeating rumors that turned out to be true or were aware of the rumors, then it makes it highly unlikely from my standpoint that people, within the program, both his staff, the people above him, AD Ward Manual and maybe people

even above AD Ward Manual, would have been aware of this. I can't imagine based on the way this story has played out. I remember us having conversations behind the scenes about these rumors months ago that like we could have known about this, but they wouldn't, which makes it a pretty tough and sticky situation for the program and the administration at Michigan. So Chris and Phoenix asks our first Dear Andy Deerari question. It's about this very thing. And I'm glad Chris asked this because I don't think Chris is the only person with this question. I think a lot of people are wondering this today as they hear about how kind of common knowledge these rumors were over the last few months.

So here's what Chris asks. Please tell me why we can't discuss the clearly open secret that virtually everyone knew was brewing at Michigan prior to. yesterday. Is off-field personal stuff off-limits? Is it legal ramifications? Is it tabloid BS that isn't considered newsworthy? I just get so tired of college football YouTube, all pretty much echoing the same thing and saying they all knew. I believe if you know something that could be potentially historically important, isn't journalistic duty to report it? Hell, we had Desmond Howard saying that Sark would be leaving after the season, and it was newsworthy and a discussion point. If he was right or wrong is not important. And did he take out the trash yesterday? You're talking about

Desmond Howard, who did reveal those Sark rumors as he took out the trash. If he did, he might have had an epiphany and let us all know that Moore was getting fired. So Chris in Phoenix asks a good question. So here I will give you our reasons. One line in that question that irks me, and I think you know which one is. Yes, I know exactly which one it is, and we're going to get to that. But I'm going to answer the general thrust of it first. Why did we not discuss this earlier? Why did we not in August go, hey, I heard that Sharon Moore might get fired this year for cause because there's something going on behind the scenes. And I'll tell you why, because I enjoy living in a house.

I would not enjoy selling this house and paying it to someone who sued me because I said something about them that was incorrect. And we never could confirm it. We never could prove it. And if you can't confirm it or prove it, you run a very serious risk. Like, I could lose my job. It's not, it wouldn't be just me. If I did this on a show or wrote it in a story on three and they proved that I was one incorrect and two had actual malice, which I would not have had actual malice, but that

means you knew it was wrong and you reported it anyway, then I would be out of a job. the person would be entitled to money for me. They would be entitled to damages. So, like, that's not a risk I'm going to take. Like, if I can't prove it, if I can't confirm it, I'm not saying it on a show. Because I would put myself at risk. I would put my family at risk. I would put on three at risk.

It's going to be years worth of content about rumors and things that we hear. Sometimes it's true. Sometimes it's not. I think that it's important to make this distinction for newcomers or people, who are unaware, but Andy and I are friends and do this show together because we were journalists together for many years. We aren't a YouTube show that doesn't have any tethering to journalistic integrity. There are a lot of different places out there that you can go watch a YouTube show and it's just some guy doing it in his house and it might be engaging, it might be entertaining.

is in conspiracy theory, YouTube, like 80% of its views. It's the YouTube, it feels like, yeah. I get like your desire to want to engage in that kind of discussion or hear about that sort of thing. If you are a fan, you want to hear the juicy stuff. Like, trust me, I understand why TMZ is a thing. I understand why, you know, tabloids exist. People like rumors and juiciness.

And I know people were entertained right or wrong by what was going on yesterday. But it's not Andy or I's place to disqualify. to discuss those things when they're purely rumor because if we're wrong, we could lose our livelihoods, we could lose our homes, we could lose everything. And we're not in that business. We're in the business of tethering our topics, our discussions, our thought processes to actual information and facts. That's what we do.

And the thing is like we try to predict what will happen in sporting events. That's part of the fun of sports. Like that's fine. There's nothing wrong with doing that. And it's, I'm happy to be wrong if I say this team's going to win a game and they lose. Like, it's fine. That happens. But when it's somebody's real life and there are actual facts that are this happened or this didn't happen, you better be right.

And so I'm going to get to the part that I'm sure Blue Ari stack. And I felt the same way. And this was Chris in Phoenix. He's asking about that when Desmond Howard did the video where he was taking his trash, out and he said, oh, I hear Steve Sarkeesian wants to leave Texas and he's leaving sooner rather than later. And Chris in the letter to us says, if he was right or wrong is not important. It is very important to me to be right in a situation like this. It is critically important for me to be right. And I know that's not everybody, but it's most of the people who

are in this business. Now, there's a lot of people who are on the internet. And you can be on the internet now and just, you know, have a Twitter feed, whatever, you don't have to be right and nobody's going to hold you accountable and that's cool. But if we're wrong, we will be held accountable. We will be fired. We will, you know, we could do damage to the company. Understand the stakes in the scope of this situation too. We want to be right when we're talking about whether a coach is interested in a job. This is someone's like livelihood, their family. real life like this isn't a joke this isn't something that you you know throw against the wall and hope to you know and it's so interesting to me because at times and I'm sure you get this

to every time you write an article you have a bunch of nameless faceless people on Twitter accusing you of clickbait buddy if we want to do clickbait we could engage in clickbait in a way that would blow your freaking head off we don't engage in clickbait and we don't discuss those types of things without it being substantiated and Andy I think the the thing that has the internet has changed and i'm assuming that you have a better you know exposure to this than i do because you started working um earlier in this business than me but when i first started in journalism school the internet was still kind of in its infancy like you know the websites were important social media did not exist yeah when i started my newspaper career the most

challenging thing for me and this has happened and maybe because we're in podcasting now um But being a journalist when I was in college and early in my career and even at the athletic was about reacting to facts and what has already happened, cataloging those things, being the working at papers that were of historical record and making sure that, you know, the public was informed of things that had happened. but ever since YouTube came into play and you know gambling I think to a certain extent has come into play there has been such a huge shift in what we do in the point of like we're expected to be able to tell the future in ways that aren't rational you know and I know that picking games is fun and we're going to continue to do that I love doing it I love picking games in my personal life you know bet MGM is a sponsor it's great but when it comes to actual stories in people's lives and circumstances of where people are moving to and jobs and all

things you cannot be wrong it's not an option and this isn't i'm bragging andy have you ever reported anything in your life that was wrong yes uh i got bad information from somebody one time and i reported it and uh it turned out to be wrong and i apologized yeah it has never happened to me not because that didn't happen you you have been reporting at levels that i haven't for longer in your career but like it's it's a great importance to us to make sure that when we deliver you information then you might not realize it at the time but when we do deliver information sometimes it is information being failed as an opinion but what we say on this show although wrong at times opinions are wrong all the time when we're talking about facts

and information if you hear it on the show it's true and we take great pride in that and if you think cares if you're right and so like go back to the nico stuff everything you're wrong you're wrong we went as hard as we did because we knew it was right right we wouldn't have if we didn't yeah so that's the one thing that you know there's a lot of youtube college football content out there and there's a lot of people who will have engaged in this a month ago um but just know if you're a listener of the show that if we're saying something matter of factly or saying things uh you know it's real and like it's important for us to never disparage a human being or their family first of all but also not you know being wrong in

the information that you guys crave. It's important. So now, here comes some rampant speculation because this is all part of the, this is part of it, but we're going to, we're going to give you as informed speculation as we can because we need to talk about who potentially gets the job at Michigan. So before we do that, I want to tell you about game time and a game that involves a person we're about to talk about. Download the game time app right now if you want to attend a college football playoff game

And there are some bangers next week. You've got Alabama, Oklahoma in Norman. You've got Miami, Texas, A&M in College Station. You want to go to that Alabama, Oklahoma game. You can get some good tickets at the Pallis on the Prairie to watch Alabama and Coach Kalin DeBore, who we are about to talk about playing against Oklahoma in a first round playoff game.

They have tickets for it all in game time, download the app, use the code Staples for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply, of course. You can also get tickets to the Miami, Texas A&M game at Kyle Field. It is a very, very hot ticket. It is four figures if you want really, really good seats. It is high 400s to just get into the building. Also, you could go to Eugene, watch JMU, Oregon.

You go to Oxford, watch Tulane Ole Miss. You could get tickets for the bowl games. Like if you're a Texas Tech fan, you want to go to get Orange Bowl tickets, go to game time time right now and get them. Use the code Staples for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. All right, let us talk. Michigan coaching search.

We mentioned last night. Kaelin DeBore's name will come up. Kailen DeBore, Alabama's head coach. His name was all over the Penn State search, even though I kept telling you guys it was never serious. It was never happening. I would say right now the people at Alabama do not believe that Kailen DeBore is going anywhere.

We are getting some indications that perhaps he'd be open to talking to Michigan. I don't think, and we talked about this last night, that Kail and DeBore would do anything that would resemble the Lane Kiffin exit from Ole Miss. So if you're Michigan, Ari, would you be okay stretching this thing out to wait and see if Kail and DeBore loses to Oklahoma in game one of the playoff?

And if he didn't, would you be willing to wait until after he played Indiana? If Alabama wins at Oklahoma, the timing gets dicey, but let me throw something back at you. I think some of the rampant speculation or maybe the discussion point that we alluded to at the beginning of the show, Andy, is who knew what, when.

There might be some extra culpability in Michigan athletic department that might impact the athletic director. Is Ward Manual making the hire is a question that we can't really answer right now? And if Ward Manual is not making the higher, then all of a sudden timeline of this higher goes past the college football game in eight days or nine days.

I would think so, yeah. Now, of course, I think that there is probably a rough deadline of when you would want that to be in place, which is the beginning of the portal season, right? And that's going to be a wild week and everybody's rosters are going to be formed in that week. Michigan has to have somebody in charge there getting people to come play. Yes. But I do think that it's within the.

realm of possibility that a debor move could in theory happen if the hire is made after the first round of the CFP and Alabama does not advance. Well, and his main personnel guy is Courtney Morgan. And where did Courtney Morgan

have some of his greatest hits as a personnel guy? Michigan. Yeah. Although I don't know how your right-hand man's affiliation has to do with. Oh, I think in this environment, it's one of the most important. If it's the personnel guy, I mean, Courtney Morgan's the one who unearthed Mason Graham for Michigan.

Now, Mason Graham was not a huge secret, but he was under-recruited. Would you move to Phoenix for me? Would I move to Phoenix for you? How much money is involved? Can we win a podcasting championship? 20% more than you're currently making. And that's what we're. And also, yeah, right, because that is a legitimate question.

that I think, because here's the sales pitch if you're Michigan, you made the playoff at Alabama and the fans are still mad at you. I can tell you right now, the Alabama administration is not mad at Kailen the board. They love Kailenaboard. They don't want him to go anywhere. They're very happy with him. And I think most of the rational part of Alabama's fan base is very happy with him. So you have to ask the question, what's the better job? And I think a lot of people would say Alabama's the better job. here's another question for you just because we're we got to think about it in a negative terms but who's kalan de boar's agent uh jimmy sexton is he good at his job yeah he's very good at his job um if you're alabama coach and you don't want to exist in pressure where people are mad at you for making the playoff what's a good way to ease some of that tension be wanted by somebody else, but then say, oh, no, I love it here at Alabama. And then as a result of that, you might also sign a document that locks up your coaching future with a larger buyout that makes it more difficult for the pressure that you're feeling to result in you losing your job. Could that be happening?

Ari, I think you have a future in the agent business. I don't, but we've been around this. enough where it's like if I were Hale and DeBoer and I didn't want to leave Alabama, I'd be really freaking interested in Michigan right now. Alabama cannot afford to lose you. They don't want to lose you. If you say, hey, I'm taking this job unless I get an extension and you increase my buyout to X so I don't have to feel like I'm going to lose my job even during semi-successful

seasons, that might be a pretty good professional play. And by the way, the person who's in charge of making these decisions and making sure that their client is making a lot of money and being taken care of is very good at this. So, like, I don't know, like, that's maybe something that we should think about. Yes. And that may be a reason why the name continues to percolate as these searches continue because it percolated throughout the Penn State search, even though lots of people kept saying, no, no, no, it's not going to happen. Yeah. I want to be on the on-free rocket ship.

If I had an agent, I would try to get it signed a long-term deal right now. I'd love to have a long-term deal. Absolutely. I thought I was your agent. Yeah, you kind of are. No, I tried to hire an agent at dinner on Friday, and we're still trying to wait to say that agent comes through for me. I was being serious.

I don't know if he is going to be serious, but my phone is, you know, you got my number. You text me all the time. Hit me up. You know who you are. Exactly. All right. So that's DeBoer.

That's where that stands. And I think we can be. pretty clear. We're not going to have a Lane Kiffin situation here. Probably you've got to wait for Alabama to be knocked out of the playoff for that to happen. I also think they're going to win. There's

that. I think there's that. I put like Oklahoma in my projected bracket because I had to do it five minutes after the reveal and I'm kind of stuck with it, but like you've talked yourself into it. It was my Judge Quavis speech yesterday. last night I took my daughter over to a neighbor's house to watch they had like a Grinch watching party we all got into pajamas and they had this theater room and we watched the Grinch and I was talking about Alabama with the dad who owns the home and he's a big Bama fan and I was like yeah I can I can be talking to this also the spread of the game is one and a half so like your guess is essentially a proposition so if they get healthy and they play I mean it's not like we haven't seen Alabama beat ranked teams on the road the

here so um yep i don't know let's let's talk let's talk about some other potential candidates uh kenny dillingham is one that i was actually surprised did not come up more often in the auburn search the florida search the penn state search i do think if ls uxu had not gotten lane kiffin that kenny dillingham would have been a pretty serious target of ls u this is one i would definitely look at for michigan young took over a dumpster fired airs Arizona State, great developer of quarterbacks. Like, you know, he really, that pro, like, Michigan's in tough, a tough spot right now. But from a football standpoint, roster standpoint, schematic standpoint, it is not nearly

in as tough of a spot as Arizona State was when Herm Edwards got fired. Like, the job here would be much easier. And you hand Kenny Dillingham the keys to developing Bryce Underwood. I would be very excited to see what that look like. me too Andy in my Texas tech column that I wrote on Saturday

on the game I wrote this sentence in the column you edited it so you read it and you didn't change it that at the moment you could make the case

that the Big 12 has more in common with the G5 conference than a Power 2 conference which is S&D I don't know if you find that to be insulting or if that's just a fact

but I posted this column on the Texas Tech message board and they did not like that. I'm sure they didn't. Texas Tech doesn't remember, but Texas Tech is the one that resembles of Power 2, not just a Power 2 conference team,

being really good Power 2 conference team. That's what I was hoping they would take away from the article. That's not what they took away from the article. But I bring that up to say that I'm wondering if the Big 12, though they have very proud historic and successful programs are going to have a harder time

holding on to their coaches now than ever before. Yes, I would agree with that. I mean, the fact that Sam Levitt is leaving. And Pete Nacos reported that a while ago and Levitt's brother, who's also a situation, is like, we're that son, right? Yeah, yeah, well, it's right. You're leaving.

He was shown up to the bank with the other night if you weren't. But the fact that you're losing that amazing quarterback like Michigan doesn't lose that kind of quarterback yeah in this era not in any air so although I did see that Bryce Underwood removed

Ann Arbor from his location on his Instagram and that went kind of viral on Tuesday or Wednesday well I am curious to see anything or it could mean nothing I don't know but that also is a part of the speculation of this whole Michigan situation are they going to be able to keep up. Yeah and again

we don't see these contracts with the players, I would guess that the Michigan contract with Underwood has some teeth that would keep him there. That would be a guess. It'd be an educated guess, but not a firm guess.

And also, when it comes to language in NIL deals and NIL contracts, based on the, the effectiveness or the competence of the agent, those are more variant in nature than they are in coaching. Well, and it's a good point, actually, because Bryce Underwood had a lot of leverage when he made the deal with Michigan. So it may be that maybe it doesn't.

Maybe it's not that restrictive. Yeah, and I don't really know that this is a Pete, and we can get Pete NACOs on. I don't know, like, I know who the good college football agents are for, like, the coaches and stuff. And I know that like as we proceed more into the future of NIL, the NIL agents are becoming better and better. And it might become. So, Bryce Underwood is not is not repped by his buddy's uncle. like okay so he is a real rep very professional representation they represent NFL players it yeah it's not i'm assuming then he probably used that leverage because michigan was dying to have him

to have his more favorable of a buyout or a uh or more favorable language that would allow him to leave and maybe a circumstance that other people that weren't represented by such good people would have right like my assumption would be that it it wouldn't be impossible for him to go it probably it probably wouldn't you're probably right about that but like so brandon greer is his agent he is a NFL and NBA certified so I mean represents professional athletes all the time so that is not the case with with all NIL agents but in this case yes so you've got that but that's one of those I would imagine if if news breaks that Kenny Dillingham got hired at Michigan, that's probably something Bryce Underwood would get excited about, given

who Kenny Dillingham is coached. So that would be one. I want to hit another one that the Michigan fans have talked about. We talked about this last night, and I actually got a little more information about this last night after our live show. So Jesse Mentor, current Los Angeles Chargers defensive coordinator, was the D.C. under Jim Harbaugh at Michigan, and then went followed Harbaugh to L.A. So Mentor has a show cause, and I will repeat again, it is not about the Connor Stallion stuff. It is about sending some text messages to a recruit about an unofficial visit when he wasn't supposed to be doing that during the wrong date range. And he got a one-year show cause for that. And the one-year show cause says that the school cannot employ him in any

athletically related function. The show cause is not over yet. I know there's some information on on the message boards that say it ends December 15th. It does not. The news broke about him making the deal with the NCAA because they did a negotiated resolution that he made the deal on April 28th. I talked to someone who was involved and they said that it's actually even later than that because it didn't go into effect until closer to Michigan's hearing with the committee on infractions.

So your food and beverage manager idea, he'd have to be the food and beverage manager for a while. And I think with Jesse Mentor, because he's one of the few really hot NFL coordinators this year, I think there's a really good chance he gets an NFL head coaching job. And so probably not headed back to college anytime soon. Well, you know, we didn't talk about this on the live show, but I want to ask you this, Andy. Does Michigan want to separate itself from that world? And I think it's a very interesting dynamic because if you talk to people who root for Michigan, who are affiliated with Michigan, they look at the sign stealing scandal as a nothing burger that was blown out of proportion and that people freaked out about. But in the light of what is going on with Sharon Moore right now, Andy, and the consistent scandal that has been surrounding the program, though different in scale and importance, but still consistent, do you want to go back to that well if you're not?

Michigan and bring somebody in who was involved in any sort of scandal previously or do you want to go find a coach that's going to run a program that doesn't get in trouble for a while like like do you think that dipping back into the Harbaugh tree and you had to mute yourself so remember that but like it like what is your take on should should there be separation between that and anybody from the from the Harbaugh era yeah I think probably that you separate from the Harbaugh tree at this point like you move on because well and for other reasons too. Like, you're trying to recreate that culture, but without Jim Harbaugh, I don't know if you actually can do that. So it's sort of like, you know, USC kept trying to capture the magic of Pete Carroll

after Pete Carroll left by hiring Lane Kiff and by hiring Steve Sarkesian. You don't have to do that. You can find a coach. You can build the culture themselves and still win a lot of games. It doesn't have to be exactly like that. So I'd say maybe do have a clean break from from that. tree and just try to find somebody who can kind of make their own name there and i think there's going to be a lot of candidates who can do that uh jedfish is another one uh jedfish finishes his season at washington on saturday are in the bucked up la bowl hosted by gronk you know what bucked up is um because that a brand or is that like it is a brand it is a brand it's a supplement company it's like pre-workout and creatine so i would have called the bricked up

up but you know whatever it's uh you know that they have a deer on the logo so okay got it i don't know what you would use for a bricked up but uh you know that a brick a brick he has so let me because we you know we're talking in circles about this a little bit let's try to like focus it and i'm just going to ask he's the betting favorite right now right it's a good question he's the easiest to acquire now there is some harbaugh dna there because he did work for Jim Harbaugh as Michigan's offensive coordinator at one point. But that's not,

nowhere near the same thing as mentor, though. No, because he's also worked for Bill Belichick. He's worked for McVeigh with the Rams. He's been all over the place. And I would argue that he's made his name as a head coach kind of on his own already based on what he did at Arizona to get the Washington job. Yeah.

And I offended some Washington people. Did you see that on Twitter? Oh, you did. I did see that. And it's my fault for not pushing back on that when you said they're a top 30 program. I would argue they're, they're a top 20 program, especially that they're in the big 10. Listen, Andy, I was just trying to give a round number. I didn't do the math on the back of a receipt before I said that. I don't know. It would be interesting to see

how many jobs you could name. I bet you it would be 25 to 30 is probably a rational place. You know, and I'm not talking measuring of recent success, but like if you're, it's not a destination job, is it? You can make it one person. It could be. Yeah. I mean, you can absolutely make it one. Like, is it, well, here's the question. Like, is Indiana a destination job? It is if Kurt Signetti wants it to be.

Yeah. I think any job in the, in the Big Ten or the SEC right now can be a destination job if you want it to be. I still think that there's a little extra oomph with some of the legacy blue blood brands. I would agree. I'm not saying, look, that doesn't mean, I said top 20, Michigan. is way ahead of that. Yeah. And I don't know.

There's no question. He's tired of moving every other year. Like I, he does that a lot, but. But maybe you get good at moving. I don't know. But I feel like he actually wants to set. Go ahead. Good with quarterbacks.

What he did at Arizona was not an accident, was not fluky. He did it with one really incredible recruiting class that they found and developed and you know he recruited kind of above the weight class which you put that at Michigan with with everything they do now because Michigan plays ball now they're not they're not being all holy than now anymore you put that with what they can do at Michigan and you can win titles yeah there also is a difference between making a place a destination job and going to a place that

is already won, right? Yeah, no, you're right. It's like, I hate, like, Kurt Signetti messed up everything. It's true. It's not a rational talking point. It's just, I get, I think we're going to have to start calling him the exception that proves the rule. It's like, yeah, I mean, you could just say that about anything.

Kurt Signetti is, is the moral of a lot of stories. But I would argue there's so much money in the Big Ten in the SEC now that any job, if you really liked it and you did a good job at it, you wouldn't have to leave because they could afford to keep you. But I agree with you, if you're the Washington coach and Michigan comes calling, you have to listen. Yeah. You have to. Yeah. Can we get in a couple more that our viewers and listeners have thrown at us? This was from Justin. Dear Andy and Ari, could PJ Fleck be hired back into the state of Michigan? Remember coached at Western Michigan before he was at Minnesota.

I do think he has the best job in America now that Mark Stubes doesn't, though after hearing his press conference from losing Ohio State, what if he has given resources to build a roster equivalent to Ohio State? Ari, his style, which is play incredible defense and run the ball down your throat, would play very well at Ann Arbor. Yeah. Would you say that if you, like, zoomed out on his entire career? at Minnesota, that he has exceeded expectations.

Yes. And it is from what Justin said, we, you know, we talked about we don't think Kentucky's the best job in America anymore because they'll fire you like they fired Mark Stoops. Minnesota might be because they can pay like a big time, any big time program because they've got Big Ten money and they don't expect you to win the Big Ten. So Minnesota might be the answer. We've been looking for an answer for a new best job in America. PJ Fleck may have it

but I think if Michigan called PJ Fleck would certainly answer the phone yeah I mean similar logos right well I think all the and we've had this discussion about PJ before and we've had PJ on the show like the gimmicky stuff

the row the boat all that stuff the slogans like that is PJ he's not faking that that's who he is I'm not sure how that plays at Michigan I do think his preferred style of play on the field absolutely plays at Michigan. I think rowing the boat plays well if you're winning.

Everything plays well if you're winning. Right. Nobody wants to hear about rowing the boat if you're seven and five at Michigan. I would agree on that. So that's, but that's an interesting suggestion. And Jason gives us another suggestion, guy who was on the show last week. Why not give the ACC champion coach a call?

Mani Diaz. I don't know if he shaved the playoff beard yet because they didn't make the playoff. But we keep that thing going for another year and they can look like Castaway at this point next year. That's true. The last coach that got hired away from Duke is kicking ass right now in college station. That would be Mike Elko. Manny, can we argue that Manny and Mike Elko pretty similar jobs at Duke?

Now, Mike Elko obviously helped set Manny up for success there, but I would argue that their two year, their two year, ten years at Duke are fairly similar. Yes, but there's more to Manny Diaz's resume than that. yes because he was the head coach in Miami yeah and I don't know you know does that how long does that stay with you I don't know I mean Mario made the playoff this year so I think now it's it's looking like Mario has surpassed what manny did there it did not look like that for a while people are going oh maybe we gave manny a raw deal so yeah also coaches learn evolve man he has spent two years as the as the DC at Penn State so understands the the big 10 from that perspective, understands the top of the big 10 from that perspective,

I do think I would, I would maybe make a call and have a chat and hear what the vision would be. Also, if you're Manny Diaz and you like what you're returning and you're an ACC champion and you think you can have another good year next year, there could be another job that he'd be very interested in in a year opening. Do you know what job is his alma mater? It's very interesting because You know, Mani Diaz, son of the former mayor of Miami, so everybody associated, and he was the head coach at Miami, but he's a Florida State grad. So, yeah, that is an interesting point because you're right. If Florida State were to open and he had another really good year at Duke,

I could see him coming home at that point. Yeah. Florida, man, it never really leaves you. Yeah. And how much of a troll would that be? You want to talk about being an alma mater guy, going and being awesome at Florida state i know we're 10 10 well if he could go be awesome at florida state and then beat the the the team that fired him in an annual rivalry i think that would be a pretty big deal for yeah

hero hero in his own place but or he could just keep winning he got the a he won an acc championship at duke do you know the other uh the other coach you did that who won stephen or spurier it's wild he turned out pretty good all right yeah that is the late that is the late The latest championship at Duke is interesting because it's also the strangest conference champion I've ever seen. It is very strange. That is the latest on the Michigan coaching search. We have more dear Andy Durrari questions that are not all Michigan related. But of course, the next one is about the thing that everybody's talking about.

But before that, there are games this weekend. We mentioned the bucked up L.A. Bowl hosted by Gronk. there's also the FCS playoffs but one of the coolest games in college football bar none one of the best events in American sports every year happening this weekend America's game the Army Navy game and we took you inside one of the great traditions of the Army Navy game all right one of the coolest games of the year is this Saturday Army plays Navy in Baltimore, 3 p.m. Eastern Times, CBS. I love this game so much.

It's an impeccable uniform game, too, on top of it. Like, it's one of the best, most iconic days of the college football calendar year. And I just love watching it because it's got its own stage. It feels so American in every way. And it's just a great spectacle for everybody to watch. So the uniforms on the players, has changed year to year, and they always highlight something cool. But what I love is the tradition, you've got the gray-clad cadets, you've got the black-clad midshipman, the whole student bodies there,

and one of the traditions in this game that I think is so cool, they call it the prisoner exchange, and it happens before the game. So every fall, there are Army cadets that spend the semester at Navy, and then there are Navy midshipmen who spend the semester at Army. And the reason they do this is because obviously what they're training for when they get to that, they're all going to need to be able to work together. They're all going to be on the same team, even though they're bitter rivals on the field on this Saturday. So they spend a semester together at the opposite academy,

and then before the game, they are swapped back into their own student body. And so they have the prisoner exchange before every game. A lot of times their Army cadets will write something across their backs. It was AAC champs last year. and it's just really cool and it reminds you of why all of these guys are doing it and remember these

the students at the academies the football players on the field these are the best of the best in the classroom on the field and they're going to be the future leaders of the American military they've all pledged to serve our country when they're done with college

and it's just amazing to see and yes they want to beat each other in the mess hall it's always beat Navy if you're in the Army mess hall but they're also working together and you see that with the prisoner exchange and I think that is one of the absolute

coolest traditions of the Army Navy. And you have the thought process about you know, how warriors like people are when they're college football players of like what these people have to go through and training and all that stuff. And then you actually like look at what a player for Army and what Navy has on their plate.

The future of the country, like the dedication that they have for all of our freedoms to enjoy college football. It's all represent. presented in a game between two teams that are actually very good now. Like, I mean, it's not just, like, Navy and Army the last few years, I've been figuring into the college football playoff race. So, you know, as much as, you know, it's at the end of the year,

it's still just a dramatic ending and an amazing thing to experience as a fan. You can't be a full college football fan without enjoying this game. We're all going to get together and watch 3 p.m. Eastern Time on CBS, Army versus Navy. It's America's game. See you there. bowl season also beginning. So the Army Navy game is Saturday. Also the, I almost called it the bricked up L.A. Bowl hosted by gronk.

It's the bucked up L.A. Bowl hosted by Gronk. That's Boise State versus Washington. One team not participating in a bowl game this year is Notre Dame. And that, of course, has been the subject of quite a bit of controversy this week. Brian sent us a question about that. As a Notre Dame fan, I have mixed feelings about the team declining a bowl invitation after their college football playoff snub. I think it's understandable to want to stick it to ESPN and ABC.

I agree with your point that the Pop-Tarts Bowl includes a lot of deliberate silliness, which certainly does not fit well with Marcus Freeman's personal or professional brand. However, I also think Ari is right to say that this decision was clearly made in an emotional huff, and that's not a great look for the program or the university. But I'm curious about another potential reason that you didn't mention on the show this week. For what I've seen reported, there was a lot of concern among the players that there would be a lot of opt-outs for such a non-meaningful bowl game. These opt-outs wouldn't just include the NFL draft guys like Jeremiah Love, Judarian Price, and Malachi Fields, but also players who would potentially enter the portal, like for the instance this week, we reported at On 3 that Kenny Menci, the backup quarterback, was probably headed for the portal. And even players who were covering for injuries and didn't want to play hurt.

It seems likely that Notre Dame would have had been fielding a shell of a team if they'd played in the Pop-Tarts Bowl. and as a fan, I don't really care to see them get blasted by a BYU team that is likely to be much closer to full strength. That performance wouldn't do much for Notre Dame's national profiler reputation either. Doesn't this seem like a good enough reason to pass on the bowl? And more generally, shouldn't we expect other just missed the playoff teams in the future years to take a similar pass on second tier bulls that they can't build a competitive team? And isn't that maybe better for viewers and fans who want to see reasonably good teams play reasonably good games? Love the show. Thanks for all your work.

that is a very reasonable take by Brian now i think a georgia fan would argue because georgia florida state after the 202023 season is the best example of this so remember florida state gets screwed out of the playoff they get left out even though they're 13 and no one won the they have massive opt-outs the team they've said to the orange bowl is a shell of the team that play. Georgia lost the SEC championship game to Alabama that year. They dropped from number one going into the game to number six after the game. Most of the players played in the bowl, and they drilled Florida State in the Orange Bowl. So it really is a matter of what your team decides. And I do have sympathy for the players here. If they knew like 30% of the best players

on the team aren't playing in this game. I'm not sure it's going to be a good time for everybody. Yeah. I mean, I think that the idea is predicated on perception. So I don't know, like from a perception standpoint of Notre Dame would be worse off in this situation or losing a game. What I do know is is that there's, you know, Notre Dame's done a very good job of recruiting high school players. And there's probably a lot of young players on this team that have them, played quite a bit that yeah i wouldn't mind seeing the young guys um i don't know like if it's just

me and i understand like as we get deeper and deeper into the portal era that more players are willing to or or wanting to uh protect themselves uh and their health going into that because this is a this is a free agency period where you can get paid some money and you don't want to go blow your knee out playing in the pop dart bowl and i think that's probably changed in the two years since georgia that example existed where the portal has become more part of the game than it was even then. Like, I get all that. But I also come from an era too where, you know, you cover teams and they sign these top

100 players and it takes them two or three years to ever play, if you're given an opportunity to go play a really good BYU team with some of your younger guys that are going to be an important piece of your team next year that you expect will be in the playoff and potentially compete for a national championship, you might stand to gain a lot more from a team perspective by playing in the game and losing than by not playing the game and still being made fun of it i'll give you an example of that it actually was a game involving notre dame but they were not the the team i'm talking about they they played florida state in a champ sports pool so he's after the 2011 season i think florida state actually won this game

but they started a bunch of young guys on the offensive line bobby hart was a true freshman he was i think he was still 16 years old because he had reclassified and so it was really rough that first half, they looked terrible. And I think they wound up getting better in the second half. And I think, if I recall, they ended up winning the game. But that offensive line became the cornerstone of the 2013 national title team. Like, and those guys would tell you that getting thrown into that bowl game against a really good Notre Dame defensive line was helpful to their development.

Yeah. And I don't know how much you think playing four quarters of live action is to a young player. but if you get to play in a non like it's like a low leverage situation where if you lose it's not that big of a deal you know maybe you want to protect like and people Pavagua said this during his news conference that they wanted to end a memorable season as a unit and they didn't want to field a zombie team out there that you know didn't honor the memory of one of the best

teams that they felt was in their you know programs history like I understand all that thought process but I wonder if in this world where we're constantly springing forward and trying to glean as much information as we can about the future competitiveness of a team and you're trying to build something that I find this to be counterproductive because even if you lose the BYU,

what actually changes? Nothing. Well, and I'll give two suggestions to the bowl system if you want to like, because all the bowl people are like, well, what are we supposed to do about this? There's two things you could do. Like, one, just pay them. Like that's simple.

We saw the players air a festival in basketball ball massive preseason tournament unbelievable roster of teams why were they all there because they paid the players to be there do that i guarantee you people will be very motivated to play other than that give them some time to decide give them 24 to 48 hours to decide they had an hour to decide or two maybe two hours in 48 hours because i bet if the coaching staff thought about this for 48 hours. They would come to the conclusion you did, Ari. I love football, and I want to develop my team.

Now, here's the other thing. From a viewership standpoint, a lot of college football fans are like huge recruiting heads. And it's like, I know Deuce Knight played this year, but like, whatever, remember when Nico started for Tennessee in the bowl game at the end of his freshman year? I don't know. River, pop up here for a minute. We got to get River up here a little bit.

more often. River, when they started Nico for the first time, were you fired up for that random bowl they were in? I mean, look, we were way more excited than what we would have seen with Joe Milton. So yeah, we were pumped. I mean, and that was, they played Iowa, right? Am I remember? Yeah, I was, I was

drilled Iowa, right? Drilled Iowa. Yeah, I mean, it was. And he played awesome and that, like, carried out their entire off season. Yeah, it was momentum into the off season. The fans were excited. We expected the playoffs. We got the playoffs. So, yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun that year.

anticipating what Nico could have been. Yeah. Yeah, we were all very excited. Remember was in a bar last week or somewhere and somebody goes, hey, are you, are you producer River? That's producer River, everyone. Remember him. That's right.

He's going to be famous. He's going to be wildly famous. When this show is the biggest show in college football and is, you know, takes over for college game day, River's going to be the executive producer at that point. And he's going to have a staff of 30 people under him. And it's going to be great to watch him, yelling at those people, being like, I did all this by myself for years.

Yeah. Yep. Roll the B-roll. Let's go. Get it go in here. I can pop back down now. We've had enough. Thank you.

Thank you, River. I actually find that to be, as somebody who covered a team that had a bunch of top 100 players on it that that weren't even made available to the media, but getting to watch them play for the first time was an event. And I don't know if everyone's like that, but that's how it was in Columbus. I would love to see all the players that, you know, are going to be starters on next year's team playing large goals. So this is beyond Notre Dame because the question is legitimate from Ryan.

Like whatever the first team left out of the playoff is, is probably going to feel exactly the same way Notre Dame. And even if they go to 16 next year, you know, the 15th that large or, you know, the 17th team, the last, first team out, they are going to feel the same. They're going to probably feel like, well, crap, we don't want to do this. anymore. Give them 24 to 48 hours. It will not hurt your bowl. I know all the bowl people think we have to do it this way. No, you don't. You have to adapt if you'd like to survive. Welcome to the real world. You had a nice little scam going for a long time. And now you're

dealing with the real world. There is nothing sharper than a bowl representative blazer, though. Oh, yeah. I'll give them that. The sharp blazers. The Fiesta Bowl ones are fire. I feel bad now, though, for those guys because they come to the games in the regular season because they want to go to the games. They want to watch the games. They're not actually doing anything there. They just want to go to the games,

sport the blazer, but I want to ask them like, hey, scouting? Who are you going to pick? Knowing they don't get a choice. I never really understood that. The conference is like, you're taking this team. I was going to say, I never really understood the idea of their presence

because they're already contractually tied into the conferences. So, like, there's really, most of the time, not even decision to be made, is there? It used to be they had real power and juice back in the day, but they don't now. If you were scouting for a bowl game, what are you looking for? Like a team that is really good or a team that is entertaining? Yeah.

I guarantee there's nothing you would see being in the press box that you wouldn't see on TV. But it gives you a chance. Now, what is the blazer, the bowl blazer you would most want to wear? The Feistible, the gold one? The butter yellow one. I think it's golden rod. It's butter yellow. I would go Rose Bowl.

The Rose Bowl has the red one. It's beautiful. It is absolutely beautiful. The Orange Bowl, orange one, very nice. The Citrus Bowl, like Florida Citrus Sports used to be green. I think they may have changed their blazer color, though. But I would definitely want the Rose Bowl. In my opinion, than the Rose Bowl logo for college football.

Yes. It's like the Navy Sugar Bowl one's pretty sweet too. Yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, I mean, it would be cool. I'm going to search on eBay right now. Like you have any blazer. Do they have a, do they have a old Fiesta Bowl blazer? That would be funny if somebody put it on eBay. Somebody put their Fiesta Bowl blazer on eBay. He's strict to like where to like an event. Like my wife's having like a big company party in a few weeks just pop up over there and do a with a Rose Bowl blazer on. You might be like. like, who's that guy, you know? Yeah. The next question comes from James, and it's actually a question to Ari and River. Can you give Andy a chance to redeem himself for his horrid pronunciation of,

and I'm not going to say it, it is the award given to the best player in international soccer every year. I apparently said it wrong on the show the other day. I have now educated myself, but I would like to know Ari and River would you like to try pronouncing the name of this award? I'm going to level with you here, pal.

When you said it, I didn't know you mispronounced it because I had never heard of this. I don't know what this is. I still don't know what you said or how it said. It is the husband trophy of international soccer. Ballandol. Oh, look, it's funny because I think people would hear our accents and assume that Producer River would not have the best pronunciation of French among us, but he does.

I was more... Did you say ballooned oil? I said ballooned yore. I won the balloon. They gave the balloon to Messe instead of Rinaldo, Paul. Steve Spurrier is on the show now. My favorite thing in the entire world about you, Andy, is that your southern accent is just an impression of Steve Spurrier, right? No.

Steve Spurrier impression. That is a very different. I know, but you sound like Steve Spurrier to me when you do the... It's not your fault, son. It's our fault. you in. Yeah, that's right, right, yeah. No, my southern accent is, is my actual original accent.

When I learned to speak, I taught like this. Me too. When I was a kid in Columbia, South Carolina, I talked like this. And that's Sacramento spelled S-A-E-R-L-I-N-A. You should still talk like I feel like you ran away. I got it beaten out of me. I moved to the keys when I was seven and the kids made fun of me. I have taught, I've had this conversation with Marty Smith before.

And I have said, Marty, the best thing you ever did was keep your accent. There's a great song that Jason Isbells wrote for the drive-by truckers called Outfit. And one, it's advice from a father to his son as he leaves home. And it is, one of the lines is, don't worry about losing your accent. A southern man tells better jokes. And I hear that and it kills me every time because I had a cool accent and I let people take it away from me. Now, if you talk like that, you'd be a podcaster? You just go home for a week.

I hope so. I do too. I mean, I'm in college football. Who would have a problem with a Southern accent? It's actually what you could make the case would be more authentic. It would be. But yeah, it's funny because if I get, like if I'm in South Carolina or Georgia or Alabama for a period of time, like if I'm there for two weeks, it starts to really come out. I'll go home for Christmas and come back with one.

That's for sure. It always happens. You never lost it. I never lost it, but it'll be more enhanced. exactly it'll be a little more drawn out like this pa river river river what do you call what are you call what what are your relatives call parents uh like what are their names mom and dad mom paul mom paula now my Alabama side of the family where where they're from specifically in Alabama uh from Selma and Dedy I didn't have that wow it was not Carolina was not like that

that that was yeah now i had the mamma and papal growing up for my grandparents yes we've talked about this before yeah we we we've actually had an off-air conversation about what we called our grandparents my my my my grandmother and my alabama relative side was grandmama and we were more structured with the uh my grandmother my dad's side who who's lived in in rural georgia uh we called her grandmother so but i think that was best trying to be fancy i mean are we going to just like not acknowledged the fact that like now we call up River once and now he's like arrogant enough just pop up whenever he feels like it.

Listen, it's his show. I was called up. He's in charge. He runs this whole thing. That's it. It shows over. Ballandor. Ballandor. Ballandor. Balloon to your, Paul. Balloon to you are, Paul. We'll talk to you on Monday.

Thank you.