Andy & Ari On3 - The College Football Hall of Fame Ballot is LOADED but needs Mike Leach | More from EA Sports

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

The College Football Hall of Fame ballot is out for the induction class of 25, and it is a STAR-STUDDED list. Nick Saban and Aaron Donald are among the no-brainers, but the rest of the choices for the members of the National Football Foundation will be brutally difficult. Andy breaks down the candidates.Andy also explains why Mike Leach isn’t on the ballot — and why he should be.(0:00-2:34) Intro(2:35-16:24) Escape Velocity: Deion Sanders and Caitlin Clark(16:25-25:27) Hall of Fame Ballots(25:28-30:46) Mike Leach left off ballot(30:47-50:36) EA Sports - Peak Behind the Curtain(50:37-1:01:52) Notre Dame Commit Will Black joins(1:01:53-1:04:18) ConclusionNext, Andy chats with Ben Haumiller and Christian McLeod of EA Sports about the process of bringing back the college football video game. Haumiller and McLeod both worked on the old game and kept the fires burning until they could bring it back this year.Follow Ben Haumiller here: https://x.com/BenHaumillerFollow Christian McLeod here: https://x.com/CMcLeod_EAAndy also catches up with top offensive tackle recruit Will Black, a Canadian import who plans to play at Notre Dame. Will explains why he chose the Fighting Irish and what he hopes to get out of his time in South Bend.Follow Will Black here: https://x.com/will_black60Plus, the Super Regionals are set in college baseball!Want to watch the show instead? Head on over to YouTube and join us LIVE, M-F, at 8 am et! https://youtube.com/live/tJLRlfIqIR8Host: Andy StaplesGuests: Ben Haumiller, Christian McLeod, Will BlackProducer: River Bailey

Welcome to Andy Staples on three. It's June, which means there's some crazy stuff going around. Something happened Monday that kind of, I don't know, just kind of stuck in my craw. And it was, I was watching the reaction to this show and then watching the other stuff that was going on in the sports world. And it, I noticed something in common and I just felt like we needed to talk about later in the show. We've got a loaded college football hall of fame ballot. We got to talk about that.

We got to, there's, there's a couple no brainers on it. And then it gets very, very difficult to parse. And we'll talk about some of the names on it and how, I mean, I would,

I would very much struggle if I was voting for the college football hall of fame, because I would not know where to draw the line, like between the hall of very good and the hall of fame, because there's some guys on there. I just feel like you cannot leave off, but they're probably not going to make it in this year. So we'll talk about that in a little bit. A couple coaches who are definite no-brainers. We're going to go deeper inside. EA Sports College Football 25. We've got Ben Howell Miller and Christian McLeod,

two of the principal creators of the game, talking about bringing the game back. These guys are true believers who worked on the old game, worked their way through to get back to the new game. It's pretty cool. It's pretty cool to watch them finally get a chance to put this game out again. And you'll be able to hear when you talk, when you hear from them, just how passionate they are about it. Also, Will Black, five-star offensive lineman, Notre Dame commit. He joins the show. Canadian import playing at a boarding school

in the Northeast. He is going to be a very good college offensive lineman. He's a very interesting guy too. And one of those guys that kind of fits that profile of Notre Dame offensive tackles. Now, is he the next Notre Dame left tackle once he gets there? We'll see. The competition is going to be pretty fierce. They've got another good one coming in this year.

And then obviously Charles Jagasaw is taking over the job right now. So the competition to replace Jagasaw when he inevitably becomes a first rounder, because that is what Notre Dame left tackles do, will be pretty fierce. But Will Black seems like he's pretty well prepared for that. You'll hear from him later in the show. But first, let's talk about a little bit what happened after the show yesterday in our little bubble, and then what happened in the rest of the sports world. So yesterday we had Ari Temkin on.

We did Big 12 floors and ceilings. And when I put the promo clip out before the show started, of course I put the clip of Ari saying that he thought Colorado had a chance to win the Big 12. One, it's a fairly provocative statement, but if you listen to Ari's reasons, I think it's pretty reasonable because if you listen to all of our show talking about different teams in the Big 12, it's about as wide open as a league can be. And if Colorado is significantly better than last year, then yes, it can join that group of competitors for the Big 12 title. But the responses to it were very predictable, somewhat discouraging, because it was just Colorado fans going, yeah, finally some unbiased coverage.

No, that's not what unbiased means. Unbiased does not mean agrees with my particular worldview. Unbiased means we're looking at this thing honestly and openly. And I don't think Ari or I care one way or the other about Colorado. We have different opinions on what Colorado is going to be this year. Ari thinks they're going to be better and the worst they can do is they're going to make a bowl game. I think on the top end, they should be able to make a bowl game. If it doesn't go well, if they did not improve, if things start to go wrong or there's some key injuries, they could be right where they were last season. But it's interesting because the discourse after the show the the back and forth is just

colorado fans saying yeah i told you we're gonna win the big 12 title no no self no introspection whatsoever no doubt whatsoever every other fan base like if you said something like that there'd be some people who are like yeah i don't don't know. Even fans of the team would be like, eh, I'm not so sure about that. But the other part was was the one that discouraged me more because instead of saying, oh no, I think Colorado might be a little better. They might be able to go six and six or seven to five and make a bowl game. Everybody's like, no, Colorado's going three nine.

Three and nine. I don't think they're going to go three and nine. Like the wheels would have to fall off. Everybody's got to have to get hurt. And also I know why you're doing that. You just don't like Deion Sanders. It's like what we talked about with Philip Dukes. You just don't like Deion Sanders. It's like what we talked about with Philip Dukes. You just don't like him. And it got me to thinking about this escape velocity thing. Because Colorado, because of Deion, has hit escape velocity in the Colorado media bubble, the Colorado college football bubble.

We saw during the season it hit escape velocity out of the college football bubble. What's escape velocity you asked? Well, remember your science classes. It's how fast you need to go to get out of the orbit of whatever predictor celestial body that you're on. And so I was thinking about how dumb the discourse can be around Deion Sanders. And then got an example of how much dumber it can be. So maybe

we're lucky in college football, but at least Deion Sanders has been a major figure in our, in our sports media lives for a long time. So we, we, you know, there's some ground rules in terms of, of how we talk about him and everything. This Kaitlyn Clark thing is wild. And I said this when she was still in college because Kaitlyn Clark absolutely reached escape velocity. Like she's way past SportsCenter. She's on to Good Morning America. She's on CNN, Fox News, all that stuff. She took a hard foul the other day in a WNBA game.

It was away from the play. It was obvious what was going on. It was not assault by any stretch of the imagination, despite what the Chicago Tribune editorial board might want to tell you. But we talked about this when Caleb was still in college. And I kind of wonder, with women's college basketball getting so much bigger, and I think it's going to keep getting bigger, are we ready to accept talking about women's basketball in the same way we talk about all the other sports that we watch in a mainstream fashion? Because it's different. And the thing with Caitlin Clark is it's even more different because

again, that's hit escape velocity and it's gone out into the non-sports world where you have to everything down into very basic parts and produce a good guy and a bad guy so that people can yell about it on television. But when she was in college, this is what I was wondering. Can we do this? Can we talk about this the way we talk about college football? Can we do it the way we talk about college, men's college basketball? Can we do it the way we talk about the NFL? Because are people going to accept it when somebody says, my favorite player is awesome and your favorite player is a bum. Because that's how it's going to go. That's how mainstream sports discourse works.

That's how people who like sports talk about sports. And they don't actually mean that your favorite player is a bum. Like deep down, they recognize that your favorite player is probably pretty good. But they don't like it because that person is the nemesis of your favorite player. That's why that happens. So like I saw Angel Reese talking about, you know, I'll embrace the villain role. Yes, do embrace the villain role, Angel Reese, because one, you won't be the villain for everybody. You'll be the hero for a lot of people. And it's great for the league.

If you have this Magic versus Bird kind of thing going on, the NBA became what it is because Larry Bird and Magic Johnson came out of college the same year. And a lot of people like Larry Bird. And a lot of people didn't like the attention Larry Bird bird was getting and a lot of people like magic johnson and they produced this incredible rivalry and they were great players like that's perfect but it required somebody to say larry bird's a bum and somebody to say magic johnson's a bum and we gotta get used to that Christopher Jordan if Angel Reese had said she's a great competitor so am I

and we need more players like us in this sport it would have been awesome no it wouldn't have been she needs to talk some trash and Kaitlyn Clark needs to talk it right back because that's fun it's sports it's fun rival It's sports. It's fun.

Rivalries are fun. But in that particular situation, which is where it kind of departs and deviates from the Dion conversation, because the Dion conversation, again, it's football, so we're all used to talking about football. And so we don't have to worry worry about people say well you can't

say negative things about this person they're a wonderful athlete Deion's been trashed since he was in college at Florida State like he had people who loved him and people who hated him at Florida State but because we talk about football all the time we understand that the the if you aren't behind caitlin clark you're a bad person thing no that if you aren't behind it if you are critical of one player but not of another you're you're not a supporter of women's basketball no that's dumb too we're going to talk about it like we talk about every other sport. That's what you guys wanted. The people who've been clamoring for more attention for women's basketball, that's what you wanted.

And you're going to get it. I'm convinced you're going to get it. I'm watching the numbers right now. Like, you're going to get it. Rod Allen, Brianna Stewart and Asia Wilson is already the magic and bird of the WNBA though. No, they're not. They are, and I'm showing my age here. Whoever were the best players in the late seventies in the NBA before magic and bird

that I can't remember off the top of my head because they aren't Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. Like, the I was watching the band when it played Coffee Shops crowd doesn't get to gatekeep this. A bunch of people just came in because Kaitlyn Clark came in and because Angel Reese came in, and they know who they are. They get to decide, like the masses get to decide who the big rivalry is. So it's amazing how this works. So like with Dion, I want to say this. We are going to talk about Dion. You guys like it. You guys respond to it. You engage with it, but we'll try to keep it as honest as humanly possible. We will try to make it where

it is not, Hey, we're just going to talk about Dion. Cause you're going to click this because it does draw in that level of discourse. And we don't want that here. Like I felt like Ari and I had a really good conversation about Dion and about Colorado yesterday. And we don't want that here. Like I felt like Ari and I had a really good conversation. About Dion and about Colorado yesterday. And I will say. I will. I will. I'm not.

I'm not too proud to admit this. Ari made some really good points. And I've been down on Colorado. And you guys know why. If you've been watching the show. Because I don't like the way. That they're building online scrimmage. I don't think it's sustainable i don't think it it produces good offensive and defensive line play but the lack of continuity is is a problem i think but when you go line by line down their roster i do think it's probably better than it was last year.

When you look at how good their skill players are relative to the other skill players in the Big 12, you go, okay, I can see a path to being better. Now, I'm not backing off what I said. I still think unless the line play gets considerably better, they're going to be essentially the same team as last year. If it's better, Ari has a chance to be right. It's a really interesting situation. We are going to talk about it.

We're going to talk about, I think we have JD Piquel on Friday. Talk about now or never. Cause JD threw that out there on Twitter on Monday, and he's going to do it on his show this week. Like who who's now or never what team is now or never. And I said, Ohio state and a bunch of people said Ole miss, but a few people saying Colorado is now or never. And JD and I were texting about that. And I thought, you know what? said Ohio State and a bunch of people said Ole Miss, but I have a few people saying Colorado's now or never. And JD and I were texting about that and I thought, you know what?

That would be interesting. Is it really a situation where they have to win or be better now or that's it for Dan? I don't know. They're recruiting Juju Lewis pretty hard, the quarterback out of Georgia. That seems to suggest to me there is a plan beyond this year. But, yeah, the escape velocity situation is very interesting. So I'm going to promise you this. We're going to try to talk about Deion in the most honest way we possibly can. When we get into women's basketball discussions, because we will have those, we will have them as honestly as we can,

but we will talk about it. Like we would talk about any other sport. We will be critical. We need to be critical and praise when we need to praise. Like, it's not one of those situations where we have to be all praise all the time. And I remember like when I was the sports editor of the college newspaper, you'd have a situation where a sport that didn't get much coverage had a kind of negative story.

And, and the people would get, the coaches would get mad. The sports information, people get, how come, how come you don't, you don't write this about football.

We do write this about football. You just don't notice it. You, you just only want the positive stuff. Well, we're going to have all of it. So we will try to be as honest as humanly possible and not get too crazy. But yeah, you folks arguing about Colorado, Colorado fans, dial it back a little bit. Everybody else, you don't have to say they're going to stink.

Be a little honest with yourself about it. I don't think they're going to stink. I think they're a little bit better than last year. Just saying. You don't have to just express it to hurt somebody. But we will find out because they'll play and we'll talk about it. And if they're good, we'll talk about them a lot. And if they're bad, we'll probably stop talking about them at some point.

That's generally how it goes. All right, on to the hall of fame deon sanders hall of famer in any book is a player but we're talking college football hall of fame and the ballot came out for the 2025 induction class and it is loaded it's a loaded ballot. This is very difficult to parse. I've got one player who I feel like is a no-brainer, but because the rest of it is so stacked, it's very hard for me to figure it out. I want you guys to chime in on this. Who do you think is the one that absolutely has to be in? Goat Dog says, Sean Taylor in the Hall of Fame, I'm very happy. He's not in the Hall of Fame yet. He's on the ballot, Goat Dog. So you've got to figure out, is he going to get selected? And the voters in this case,

the members of the National Football Foundation. Now it's not as simple as like the baseball Hall of Fame vote where you have to be on a certain percentage of the ballots. The people who are on the most ballots then go to an honor court, which is led by Archie Griffin, two-time Heisman trophy winner, the only two-time Heisman trophy winner. And they end up, you know, making the final selections, but all right. So for players, the no brainer here is Aaron Donald. Aaron Donald was utterly dominant at Pittsburgh. He was as dominant as he was in the NFL. And I think there's a good argument to be made that he's the best defensive lineman who ever played in the NFL.

He was that dominant at Pittsburgh too. Now Pitt was not getting a ton of attention at the time. There was a game that Aaron Donald played against Georgia Tech and they lost that game. But he had six and a half. I want to say six and a half tackles for loss in that game against an option team. Like that's impossible. Impossible. Entire game plans were built around Aaron Donald in the NFL.

Imagine what opposing offensive coordinators were doing in college to try to deal with this guy. Now he did not have the best talent around him or anywhere near the kind of talent around him he had in the NFL, but he still was utterly dominant. So I'm going to say he's a no brainer, but this is where it gets tricky because like Kellen Moore is in his fourth time on the ballot. Fourth time. Kellen Moore was the highest winning percentage of any quarterback in college football history who started for four seasons. He had a 943 winning percentage. Like he was incredible at Boise State. He's on the ballot for the fourth time.

We mentioned Sean Taylor. Sean Taylor led the nation in interceptions as a senior, helped Miami to the national title as a sophomore. Maybe as a freshman. I'm trying to remember if he stayed three years or four, but he was incredible his entire career at Miami. Like Sean Taylor feels like one of the easier ones for me in this one, but like you've also got James Laurinaitis. James Laurinaitis played linebacker at Ohio State. He's a three-time first team All-American, got his team to the national championship game a couple of times, or helped his team get to the national championship game a couple of times or helped his team get the national championship game a couple of times. They had some, some pretty good other players on that team too, but he was spectacular. But again, I don't know if he winds up in the hall of fame, Antoine Randall L this is one of those you know how much do you account for how they helped change the game

because I do think Antoine Randall L the way Indiana used him changed the way people decide to use quarterbacks he was the first player in college football or in FBS history to throw for 6,000 yards and run for 3,000 yards in his career. So that is a pretty impressive stat. A couple guys who I kind of think should have to go in together if they go in Sibion Rice and Kevin Hardy. Remember they played on the same Illinois defense. One is an edge rusher. One was a linebacker. That is that's a nasty nasty thing to have to deal with Chris Samuels the offensive tackle from Alabama there's the the year that Chris Samuels got drafted he was a senior in 1999 he got drafted in 2000 the one clip they kept showing is of him ragdolling Alex

Brown from Florida Alex Brown who by the way is also on the ballot this year and probably deserves to get in. That's how good these two guys were. Manti Teo is on this list. How do we separate Manti Teo, the Notre Dame player, from Manti Teo, what happened to Manti Teo? Manti Teo, what happened to Manti Teo? Like the Manti Teo, the subject of the documentary that we all watched. Like that is the other interesting part of this. Michael Vick, little different circumstances, like Manti Teo, the victim of his situation. Michael Vick was not, but Michael Vick's also on the ballot. Michael Vick changed the game. Michael Vick was one of the most influential

players in college football history in terms of how it influenced how other teams recruit quarterbacks, how they use quarterbacks, how they design their offenses, what quarterback kids wanted to be like. But again, because of the way this is selected, they might not pick him because of the dogfighting stuff. Christopher says Michael Vick is a yes. I'm with you there. I think probably he is. Peter Wark, incredibly, just electric at Florida State.

It's so hard. This is John Henderson. So I covered John Henderson at Tennessee. This is one of the best defensive tackles that we've seen in decades. He was incredible at Tennessee. Now he played next to Albert Hainsworth. They actually had some pretty good, that whole group in that part of the Philip Fulmer era was pretty outstanding. That 2001 Tennessee team should not have lost to Georgia, but they gave

up the hobnail boot play. The squib kick that led to that drive that led to the hobnob loop play will be debated forever in Tennessee lore. They definitely should not have lost the SEC championship game. They knocked LSU starter out of the game. Matt Mock comes in, runs crazy on them. And that was Nick Saban's first SEC title. If Tennessee wins that game, they play Miami for the national title in Rose Bowl. I don't think anybody would have beaten that Miami team, but I think the Tennessee team that year, because it was stacked with John Henderson, with Albert Hainsworth, Jason Witten, Dante Stallworth, would have at least given them a game as opposed to the Nebraska team that just got blown out. Josh Heupel on the ballot this year. He got asked about being in the Hall of Fame.

Again, there's a lot of confusion about these guys aren't in the Hall of Fame. They're on the ballot. So he got asked at SEC meetings in Destin last week, hey, how's it feel to be in the Hall of Fame? He's like, nah, I'm just on the ballot. But remember Josh Heupel teaming with Mike Leach at Oklahoma to bring that offense to the Big 12, winning a national title that next year.

That was a pretty impressive couple of years for a guy out of Juco. Halodinata from Oregon, the defensive tackle. This is one of those, he had an injury his sophomore year that kind of affected him sophomore and junior year. So his numbers were not as great as they could have been. But he had 61 tackles as a senior, which is insane for an interior defensive lineman. The Indomitian Sioux 2009 year is the only one I can think of that's better.

He also blocked six kicks in his career at Oregon. I'm sorry, seven career block kicks. Haloni Nata was amazing. So again, this is hard. Coach is not so hard. Nick Saban and Urban Meyer, they're in. They are in. No question about it. Obviously, the Urban Meyer NFL experiment was a dud. It doesn't matter. We're just judging on what he did in college. Between Utah, Florida, and Ohio State, there is no question. He was the first BCS buster at Utah, two national titles at Florida, a national title at Ohio State, and an utterly dominant run in the Big Ten.

That is no question he's in. So there is one coach who's not on the ballot. We need to talk about that. There is no pirate presence on the ballot. Mike Leach is not on the ballot and here's why. The criteria call for a coach, you have to have been a head coach for 10 years. You have to have won at least 100 career games, and you have to have a 600 all-time winning percentage. That's the reason he's not on the ballot. He has a 596 all-time winning percentage. But here's where I will push back on that. Mike Leach coached at schools where it was traditionally, historically, very difficult to win.

He made Texas Tech relevant. He made Washington State relevant. Now, Washington State, the Mike Price years, they did win quite a bit. But they were not winning when Mike Leach took over. The Paul Wolf years were pretty sad. Now, Mississippi State had done well. Dan Mullen had kind of unlocked some things at Mississippi State. Joe Moore had did okay.

And in fact, probably only got fired because he didn't do as well as Dan Mullen. But that's another place where historically it's very hard to win. And you were going up against these superpower coaches, including Nick Saban. The reason his winning percentage is not super high is because he wasn't at a powerhouse school. Alabama was pretty good before Nick Saban showed up. Now, Mike Shula didn't have a bunch of great years, but like two years before Nick Saban was hired, Alabama was in a BCS bowl. Alabama's a double-digit win team. The Crunch Time Sports Advantage Network says, nothing about Mike Leach's coaching record that makes him a Hall of Fame caliber coach. This shouldn't be a popularity contest. The Pirate will be missed. He was never a great head coach. That is one of the stupidest statements I have ever heard. He completely revolutionized offensive football, not just in

college, at the high school level and in the NFL. People were stealing concepts from him at both levels. He changed the sport entirely. And because he's won, I think one or two more wins would have gotten him over. Because he never coached at a powerhouse school. Because he always coached at schools that weren't traditionally very good. It was a lot harder to win games. powerhouse school because he always coached at schools that weren't traditionally very good. It was a lot harder to win games. So yes, by every objective measure, Mike Leach was an incredible head coach. It has nothing to do with popularity. It has everything to do with influence on the game and with understanding the degree of difficulty. I just, it's silly.

There needs to be a better way to evaluate the coaches because influence on the game should matter. I will argue that no coach this century influenced the game as much as Mike Leach did. If you think there's one who influenced it more, tell me. Because Nick Saban is the greatest of all time. He's the most accomplished. But you can't do what Nick Saban did unless you work in an Alabama or a Georgia or an

Ohio State. So the people aren't necessarily, like, it's's been tried people have tried to take what nick saban has done and do more with it but you can't kirby smart can at georgia but look at all this jeremy pruitt will must champ derrick dooley all the saban tree guys who didn't work. Rod says, Andy Reid copied Leach's whole flow bar for bar in one Super Bowl. We're not giving Andy Reid enough credit there, but yes, they did take things from him. Belichick took a lot of stuff from him.

When Belichick had Wes Welker, he went to Mike Leach and said, okay, how did you unlock this guy? How did you use him? So, yeah. Incredibly influential. Let's say Tennessee hires him. Remember, they tried to hire Sciato. The fans revolted.

They went back on that. John Curry, who's now the Wake Forest idiot, was the idiot at Tennessee right now, or at that time. He was actually out in California interviewing Mike Leach when he got called back to get fired. And then Phillip Fulmer hired Jeremy Pruitt. Like, what would have happened if Leach had gone to Tennessee? Is he over 600 at that point? It's possible. Might want a couple more games. But yeah,

there needs to be a Mike Leach wing of the Hall of Fame. So if the criteria don't allow him in, you probably need better criteria. All right. Rant over. Let's talk about the video game a little bit. You guys got very excited. We talked about the video game last week.

They gave out the deep dive, the gameplay deep dive, where they showed you more of what it's going to look like ea sports finally released some of that but i i want you to kind of understand the people behind this i think the people behind this are almost as interesting as as the game itself because this was a labor of love for a lot of people and then basically got ripped away and they had to go find other jobs because of the the O'Bannon lawsuit they stopped making the game and basically everybody's everybody's got their dream job and it's like nope we're not doing this anymore go find other jobs and and some of them went within EA Sports some of them moved to other companies but they all kind of kept the fires lit and so

the ones who were at other places in EA Sports or who are the other companies found their way back to the college football team. So when I was down at EA Sports, I talked to a couple of guys who worked on the old game and then are key people in bringing back the new game. So Ben Howell Miller, Christian McLeod. Ben Howell Miller is the principal game designer. Christian McLeod. Ben Howell Miller is the principal game designer. Christian McLeod is the lead producer on EA Sports College Football 25. These are guys who were very involved at a high level in the old game, and now they've helped bring it back. Let's talk to those guys.

All right. This is an honor. Ben, Christian, we've gotten to play the game. I've gotten to beat you in actual football. We can talk about high school later. But so that is for those who don't know, Ben Haumiller, what is your official title here at EA Sports? I am the principal game designer on college football. So you're like the guy. I'm a guy. I would never say I'm the guy. We win as we, we lose as I.

So if there's anything wrong, you can point me at it. But no, it's a we thing. We have a lot of fans. It's like you were part of a team when you were part of the Lakehouse Silverhawks and you lost to the Lake Mary Rams. Let's get deep on some old mid-90s. There were two offensive tackles wearing number 62 that day. And let's just say one of them won and one of them makes the coolest video game in the world.

So what I couldn't do on the field, I'm trying to do here in the virtual world. Well, neither of us could do it on the field. I think we established that. But you're a Florida State guy, Christian, Michigan State. Yes, sir. Go green. How much of a labor of love is this? Because talking to all your guys, it just came through the passion that everybody has for this sport making this game.

I mean, this is what we do. This is what we love. This is the only sport that matters to me. I said it during the presentation. I watch more college football by 3.30 on the opening weekend than I watch NFL the entire year. That is just how I'm cut. That's who I am. So that's all I think about is this game. And I've been thinking about this for a decade of how we're going to bring it back and what it's going to be. Just like Christian has, just like everybody else has, we've all been thinking about this thing. So to be here is amazing. So let me ask you about the dark times.

The game goes away. Obviously, EA Sports didn't want to stop making it. We've covered thoroughly why it went away. But when did it seem real to you guys that it was coming back? Because it seemed like you guys were sort of prepping for it all along. I would say probably about four years ago. We started to have some discussions right before the pandemic. And there was a glimmer of hope. And from there, it became real, you know, about a year, a year and a half later. And so it was super exciting about that whole situation was just getting the gang back together and starting to build that team back up.

And to Ben's point, we're a bunch of college football sickos. We love this game where they, I told the story earlier today. Just, I used to play Madden 93 as the New York Jets because they were green and white and i pretended in a binder that this was before bill walsh came out this was my college football game and so you know we we had that moment where it became real and then he started to build this team and we had you know five people then seven people then 12 people and finally ramped up that that full you know production and i think that's when it became very real but to to be honest with you, you know what became real for me

was when we hit that trailer. When that trailer came out a couple of weeks ago, that was the moment where we've been so far in the forest that we haven't been able to see everything outside of it. Well, speaking of the forest, that's one thing that's just amazed me playing the game. There is so much. There's 134 teams there's 140 34

perfectly rendered stadiums and plus all the neutral sites how do you keep from getting lost sidetracked uh bogged down in one thing and get this massive thing off the ground man great question because there is so many different ways there were so many different ways we could go about bringing this thing back and what do we care about and what what matters what we did a decade ago doesn't necessarily resonate to today's fan so making a game that is modern but also to a kind of a familiar old friend that's coming back yeah with a key thing for us and leveraging what matters the most right the sights the sounds the gameplay dynasty that's where we put our money and that's where we really tried to invest in well and the thing is like so I'm just playing out there.

I was playing as UNLV at Clemson because I wanted to run some go-go offense. So the option pitch, you have made some tweaks to it, but it is when I would run the option with Anthony Wright at South Carolina, and I'm sorry, Anthony Wright, I know you're not an option quarterback, but it worked for me in 1999. And it's just amazing to me that it does feel like when I was in my college apartment playing that but then you've also got all this other things all these other things you can do with the PlayStation 5 and with the the current Xbox I mean it's it's amazing yeah we've got a uh a

crazy attention to detail and kind of to answer your question. Because you're all nerds, right? We are all nerds. But we have a great project management team as well that keeps us on track. Yes. The second that we veer offline, they get us right back in line. But I think also, too, sorry, just to repeat, too, we are fans of the game just as much as we're fans of the sport. So we have our own quality bar of like, well, it's not Dynasty that doesn't have this. It's not Gameplay that doesn't have this.

It's not Road to Glory that doesn't have this. So we're making sure that we've got those pieces. As this is a foundational year, we're just building from here. That's the other real fun part. Well, and you were talking about Dynasty mode in your presentation. And one of the things people, oh, what about NIL? How do we handle that? And you're handling it through brand in the Dynasty mode this year.

But you pointed out, you said something could be changing today or as i'm speaking about nil and in fact it was there was something going on with one of the court cases as you were speaking amazing and and so i mean how how much of a moving target was the game itself because of all the rules changes and the transfer portal and and and nil yeah i mean we started and you know you've got everyone has their own kind of thoughts and memories of what has changed since we started this, right? We started with still a 14 playoff. We started this and commentary alignment

hadn't kicked into gear with what we've seen this last year. We started this and you could only transfer one time. We've had to make those adjustments and changes this entire time through to keep the game current and make sure we are launching something that is, you know, in the zeitgeist of college football, but also, you know, doesn't feel out of date the moment we come out. And I know such a moving target. That's one that was really hard for us to see. How do we want to do this? So we're kind of waiting until it dies down and we have something

more concrete that we can then build on. I'm fascinated by how you build this stuff into the dynasty mode, the decision engine that it uses. Because you and I were talking about this yesterday, where you asked me about coordinators and head coaches at the group of five level, would they more likely go be a power two coordinator now than maybe jump to another head coaching job? And I was like, yeah, probably, because there's more money in it. And so that's something we may see in the dynasty mode going forward read and react right yeah see what's happening in the world we consume the entire sport and then try to figure out how we can make a game out of it and so i think that's what you see is like we react to

what happened in the real world yeah yeah no i think you nailed it ben it's it's important to be realistic as possible but we're also making a game so how do you make these systems fun yeah so well that was the thing so travis hunter was here the colorado you know corner receiver and i asked him i said what the what the ralphie run looked like and he goes oh i went straight to the gameplay and but but that's the thing you're you're making it for 10 different types of fan as well because there's a there's the person who just cares about the gameplay there's the person who wants road to glory there's a person who just cares about the gameplay. There's the person who wants road to glory. There's a person who wants dynasty. And, you know, for, for those of us who just are the nerds, how important was it to get it to look and feel like the stadiums, like the real games? Super important.

You know, we, we, when we came back, that was our core pillar is how do we satisfy the core? It had to look right. It had to look right. It had to feel right. The gameplay had to be rooted in authentic, you know, 134 ways to play, like Scott talked about earlier today. So that was our core X, especially in year one, as we're building this foundation and we're bringing it back from, from where we were 10 years ago, we had to hit on that. And when you see see it you said it was a trailer for you what about for you when when did it feel like okay we've we've given birth to this thing i think the first time i signed a recruit you know like we're back baby this is what we're

doing you know like yes like you know that sort of these seeing those things come online right yeah the first time that you see an early version. You're talking about a recruit in the game as as as coach Ben. As coach Ben, of course. Yeah. Yes. But like, you know, those different pieces. It became kind of muscle memory. Right. Things that I'd done a decade ago. Yeah. To do again. You know, you don't get a chance to redo some of those things. And so it's so much fun to be able to come and bring this back to a new generation of both fans. But also to the people that are working on the game, there are guys

who were, you know, kids when we went away, they're now adults that are working on this game and they are as passionate as we were a decade ago, we were made. Well, I think that's the coolest part is there's a whole generation that never experienced this product. Yeah. That's exciting. Yeah. I, it's, it's wild.

That was Travis said he played it when he was 10 years old and played it since. Okay. So speaking of that, real players in the game. Now, Ben, during the time that this game was dark, you worked on Madden for a little while, but then you worked in business development. How much did that prepare you for dealing with the, I guess, what are we calling this, the largest NIL deal in history where you got that many players stopped into the game. Yeah. That was really an interesting thing was, you know, college went away. I was always branded myself as the college guy. So I had to reinvent myself and I worked on Madden for a while and that was great. I love our Madden product and not everything else there, but it wasn't me. I didn't feel like it was really me being authentic to myself. I got interested in the licensing side of the world and that business affairs side of the world. So I left development to go figure all that stuff out because also too, in a weird way, I was like, hey, this is going to be a great way of getting this game back to learn this side of it and try and get school. You had a plan the whole time.

Maybe, you know, maybe. But so working through those things. But yeah, just kind of learning that side of the house and how all those things happen to work with schools to get them comfortable with us again, that we're not the boogeyman. We're we're here to help. We're, razor. I'm tied, raise all boats. Like we're here for everything. How nervous were you when you put the offer out the opt-in 600 bucks and a copy of the game? Was it all right. Do we, do we see who does this? And then when it starts flooding in, what's that, what's that feel like feel like yeah i think we're just super pumped at the end of the day i don't think there were nerves it was more belief in our rock star biz dev team uh yeah they put together an amazing amazing deal and honestly it

was just it was amazing to see it was amazing to see the reception again we've lost a generation on this product and it's so happy that it's coming back. You think about the critical, you know, we were trying to think what's the critical mass. Like, what does this mean? Like when we sign up, who's going to opt in? Who's not? How's it all going to work out? And, you know, there are concerns, right?

You're getting that clench moment of like, is this going to work? And then you start seeing that overwhelming response of the players want this game back just as much as we all do. So I think that was really such a great piece for us all to see. Yeah see yeah because i mean that was the dream is to see yourself in the game yeah and most of us have to build a player to make that happen these guys actually get to see it and not only that it's not they're not wide receiver number eight it is them their name, the number of heads and beards. And we saw the side-by-sides of the photos of the real players and the rendering. It looks amazing because you can't send the Madden truck out to map all these people. Yeah, there's nothing like the Combine, where we go and scan every NFL player that's coming through that.

So you have that. We can't do things the same way that other games can do. There's 12,000 players. And they're only there for such a short amount of time. So that's a through that so you have that there we can't do things the same way that other you know games can do there's 12 000 players and they're only there for such a short amount of time you know so i think that's a piece for us we had to recreate every thought about how we make this game and do it in a much smarter way well it is it came off amazing it plays great the the look i think is what's going to blow people away just Just the care that went into, and we've spoken to some other folks that worked on that. But how proud were you when you got to see, obviously, it's still not a finished version quite yet, but something close to the version you're going to put out where you're like, okay, we got this. This is Spartan Stadium.

This is Doe Campbell Stadium. You know, you have Osceola on Renegade planning the spear, and it looks like the real thing. Yeah, I mean, it's just, there's so much that went into it, and just so much of those things that you just look and you see things coming online for the first time

and seeing the whiteout at Penn State for the first time that we never did in the old game. And seeing those things come back. You can checkerboard Neely stadium. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy.

It's insane to see those things. Like, and that's what just inspires you to see that come online. And you see these things that the chainsaw at Oregon state and all those things, just, that's what we want to come across as we are all fans and we're trying to do this for the fans. We're so close to it that today was really a watershed moment. Yeah. Got a little dusty eyed watching everybody play the game for real,

because this is a culmination of a lot of hard work and passion from a lot of talented people. And it's awesome to see the reception that we've been getting. Well, you got a lot of stations out there in that area where we're playing the game. There are no empty ones.

Like, I don't know where everybody came from, but everybody was. And it's funny, this interview, I was like, oh no, I can't leave yet because I had just started a game at Iowa. So I was waiting to get to the end of the first quarter because I want to see the Iowa. Because I DMed you, Ben, when the trailer came out.

Putting the Iowa Wave in the game was like the one. It's a video game trailer. I was like, I'm not going to feel anything. As soon as I saw it, I'm like, oh. Oh, wow. Honestly, what it boils down to is our mantra and our tagline. Everybody's team is somebody's favorite team, right? Those small moments that make an Iowa feel special,

that make a Texas state feel special just like a Texas, that's what we're all about. We need to make sure that we're hitting on every single team. So we're, we're pumped on that. There's a lot of, we're not going to go into a lot of Easter eggs on there too, that we're super excited. Let's get people playing the game and see forums pop up and tweets and such. And I think one thing that's really fun is that as a fan of college

football and anyone playing this, like this game makes you a smarter fan. Yeah. You'll, you'll experience a 12 team playoff in our game for the first time. The retraining of your brain is going to happen because of this game to a degree. You'll know rosters better than you would have known otherwise. If this player went here or whatever else, because you'll be playing the game,

you'll know more about random teams that you might not ever have any affiliation to, but you play a dynasty with them, and all of a sudden comes Saturday, you're not watching that game, and you know the players. It makes you a better fan. I think that's my favorite part. General Booty and the ULM Warhawks are ready to take over college football

on my console that I will be stealing from my 14-year-old son. Gentlemen, it has been a pleasure. Thank you so much. Andy, and thank you. Congratulations again to your Lake Mary Rams for that win all those years ago. I know it holds us. We have so little. We have so little.

Plus, there was a TV star on your team, Scott Porter. He beat us all. Yes, he did. Thank you, guys. Thanks, man. Yes, Scott Porter, who played Jason Street in Friday Night Lights, then did like seven seasons on The Good Wife, then was on a Netflix show. He's also on heart of dixie

shout out heart of dixie i know i know you all binge that on netflix like i did but he was in deep in that that network tv money yeah he won he was a receiver on ben's team uh and look the only reason i keep bringing up that game is the wildest ending of any game I've ever been involved in. And so I'm going to go uncle Rick on you for about 30 seconds here. So here's what happened. And this is why I'm mentioning it to Ben. You can see him just cringe as I mentioned it, they had us beat. So our offense stalled, we were down like four points. Our offense stalls very late in the fourth quarter. We punt to them. They had a, it was not a Mario Cristobal situation. Like they, they couldn't take knees yet. They didn't have enough time and timeouts left to take knees. So they had to run a few plays and they had a really good running back and they hand it off and he breaks through and he's going,

he's running, you know, into the secondary. And it's like, Oh, what's going to happen here. And he starts getting toward the sideline and you can tell, he realizes he's not supposed to go out of bounds because he doesn't want to stop the clock. And so he's trying to tightrope the sideline as he's doing that. Our safety shout out Donnie Casey, the craziest football player I played with just runs up and takes the ball away from him. Like pulls it right out of his hands. This is on like the 35 or 40 yard line. Turns around and runs 35 or 40 yards into the end zone.

The officials near the play were looking at it like, what the hell just happened? They're like, I guess it's a touchdown. That happened on our sideline. So I was standing right there as it happened i was like is he gonna take the ball the coaches on on the other team because they couldn't see it because they're on the other side i feel like what what just happened it was the wildest thing like it would have fit in on scott porter's show friday night lights because you know the first few seasons they had all those wild endings and all those games. It would have fit right in there. So that's why I keep bringing it up,

because it's the weirdest thing I've ever seen. But thanks to Ben and Christian, you can tell how much they love this thing. I see in the chat, you guys are getting ready. You're deciding on your Dynasty Mode teams. It's going to be so much fun. We're not that far off. July 19th is the regular drop date.

July 16th, if you got the deluxe edition. So this will be a lot of fun. And we're all going to take this journey together. Speaking of journeys, Will Black has made quite a journey. He starts in London, Ontario as a hockey player. Decides to take up football. Decides, hey, I might be better off getting developed. It looks like I'm going to be pretty good at football. If I go across the border to the States, go to a boarding school that has good football and then see what happens. Well, he's done that. He's a

right now. He is headed to Notre Dame. He's already committed. He's in the class of 2025. And we caught up with him at the On 3 Elite Series in Nashville last week, discussing how he got into football from hockey, how he decided on Notre Dame. You're going to like this guy. Here's Will Black. We are joined by Will Black, the pride of Canada. We got to come up with some sort of nickname. We have Mapletron.

I'm trying to think of a good offensive line Canadian nickname. Something to do with syrup. So it's gotta be something. But this is more like a Vermont thing, that I feel like the syrup is. So you guys do make your own syrup. Actually, I believe there is maple syrup,

like traces of it in most of your currency up there. So yeah, I think yes, we're just gonna call you the syrup man because you put syrup on all your pancakes. There we go. Yeah. Alright, so we'll, we'll you're in your three playing football. Hockey was the original sport, right? What position do we play in hockey? So I started off playing forward. I played like winger.

And then when I got bigger, they put me on defense. So I'm trying to imagine you like in the Connor McDavid role, like how fast of a skater? Because I've seen your 40 time. Yeah. Like you can move. So I'm just like I wasn't great in high school physics, but you on skates?

Seems like that's very fast. Yeah, I was pretty fast. I was always the tallest player, for sure, but I was, back when I played, like, seriously, I was a lot skinnier. So, I was probably, like, 200 pounds. But you could stick people when you were a defenseman, right? I mean, not all the time no no you were just checking them into the boards oh i thought you meant

oh no yeah covering covering the the little wingers yeah oh yeah definitely use my size oh yeah trust me yeah you you know you you put somebody the boards they, they're going to feel it. Oh, yeah. 100% all the time. So obviously you're in Canada. It's becoming clear you could be very good at football. How do you make the decision to come to the States? You go to Choate, which is an incredibly academically rigorous boarding school where most of the people go to Ivy League schools. How did that process come about? So I played two high school

football years in Canada and I started realizing I was really good and I started I downloaded Twitter made an account and high schools from America were reaching out and that's when I realized I was like oh maybe I could do something with football in the US so you're like you're like, hey, I'm a 6'5", 265-pound former hockey player. Anybody interested? Yeah, I had no idea. I did not think that was possible. But I guess with my size and athleticism, it was.

So then I started looking at places where I could go and board because I couldn't just go to a public school because I needed somewhere to live. We're going to move. Your parents aren't moving, right? So I looked at the best boarding schools in the Northeast and visited a couple, and then I ended up at CHOPE. So, I mean, the classwork, I'm sure, is not easy. No.

The football part of it, but preparing you for where you've committed, which is the University of Notre Dame. What was it about Notre Dame that felt like the right place for you? You know, the people there, I think the culture is amazing. Everyone's very like-minded. Everyone goes there not just for football, but they want to get a good degree. That's what the coaches always talk about, the 4 for 40. And so the degree from Notre Dame is super valuable

and will carry you on past football and they network exactly the Notre Dame network is uh it's pretty unbeatable so and they also produce offensive linemen like in other schools so yeah it's basically everybody who's been their left tackle in the last since Ronnie Stanley probably has been a first round pick yeah it's nuts no pressure right yeah I guess so well and you you've got a pretty good offensive line class already This is Ronnie Stanley probably has been a first round pick. Yeah. It's nuts. No pressure, right? Yeah, I guess so. Well, and you've got a pretty good offensive line class already. Like how much do you guys talk?

We talk every once in a while. We got up to the spring game together where we met each other. We got to hang out a bunch. But we have a group chat where we talk. We've gotten to know each other. How much, you know, when you think about how well they've been able to develop offensive linemen, how much did that go into the decision of these guys tend to

make first round, early round type draft picks? Yeah. It definitely did a lot. I remember I committed when I visited in December and I went to the awards banquet and I got to meet Joel and Blake Fisher and just talking to them was real. It was awesome. They told me how great of a coach Joe Rudolph is. I think they had three offensive line coaches, just those two guys.

So, I mean, Joe Rudolph is the best. I think he's the best coach for me. His reputation precedes him. He was great when he was at Wisconsin as well. So, for you, you mentioned you were tall, skinny. When did you start getting huge? And did it just sort of come on, like, wait a second, nothing fits anymore? So, I remember I started playing football in grade 10. I was 230 pounds and then by the next season I was 275. Oh wow. So you just like breathed on the weights and all of a sudden the muscles come? Yeah I put on like 45 pounds in a year. Pretty clean and so yeah i've just been putting on muscle and how important is it because

we just had all of you guys the offensive linemen who are here for the elite series in here nobody's like there's nobody sloppy like you guys look like athletes big athletes how important is it to to stay like that and because obviously you're, as an offensive lineman, trying to get bigger, but how do you get bigger without losing the athleticism? Well, you've got to put on clean weight, so you've got to be eating good food and a lot of it. So I'm trying to put in a lot of good food. And then with that, you've got to be working out, lifting weights,

as well as doing cardio. So all that. I'm just trying to make you say the words out and about as many times as I can. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm an ugly American, and I apologize for that. But you've come through like a champ. You have said oot, and you've said aboot, and it is awesome.

Have I? Oh, yeah. I haven't even noticed that well my so my parents had very thick southern accents and it didn't occur to me that they kind of talked like this and and because you're in the house you don't even notice it yeah and then they call you know and my friends would answer and be like who's this on the phone I'm like that's my mom so is it you got to be proud of you from I wish I still had my old accent so you get to South Bend and you keep that because you're gonna be around those the you know the the Michiana people and

they all sat there I have that Michigan kind of little Chicago ish accent yeah they're gonna try to get you to turn to that you keep the boots right now I'm around a lot of New York people. So. Oh, yeah. So definitely. That's got to be what we were talking about this earlier before we started recording. Jamie Lee Curtis went to your high school. JFK and JFK's dad went to your high school. Like there I imagine the parents of some of your classmates are just straight ballers.

Oh, yeah, for sure. I think there was a couple years ago the parents of the owners of Samsung and LG were there. What? Yeah, it's crazy like some big people, some big names. Yeah, so somebody's got a Samsung phone, you're like, well I got a Samsung phone, not an iPhone. Because my dad's the CEO. Yep. Yeah, it's crazy. That is incredible. Yeah. Does anybody take a private jet home on the weekends?

Not that I know of, but maybe. I was going to say, okay. Maybe. You got to figure out who some of these people are. I know. This is a start to your Notre Dame networking career. Exactly. Because you'll know those people when you get in the dorms in Notre Dame like you get to know everybody so that that is and I'm interested to hear about this because you mentioned earlier the people who choose Notre Dame are not choosing

kind of the same college football experience that a lot of these other folks are choosing like they're going to put you in the dorms with students who aren't necessarily athletes and the guys I've talked to who went to Notre Dame kind of love that part because they got to meet people maybe they wouldn't have met otherwise. But how much did that appeal to you? Is it something – because it is a very different thing. They don't have majors that they just shuttle athletes into. Like you've got to take something hard.

Yeah, that definitely appeals to me how they like to push their students. Like some schools will put their athletes in easy programs just so they can focus on football. But I like the challenge of doing both. And then like my first year at boarding school, I lived with a hockey player from Canada. Oh, nice. So that was cool. So you had somebody to talk to? Yeah, get to know some other people.

Compare notes. Yeah, outside of the football team. And then same thing at Notre Dame. But I'll probably live in a dorm first year and then an apartment with the offensive line. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, listen. Offensive linemen. And you'll probably add a long snapper just from experience.

Like, specialists always glom on the offensive line. Oh, yeah. It just happens. It's like they're little friends, the little pun punters and they're like mascots basically so you'll have the leprechaun over here and and maybe like a punter that you live with with the rest of the offensive line yeah so what are you going to major in do we know business okay i'm thinking maybe finance or marketing no i'm% sure yet. Joe Alt really inspired me when I found out he was doing mechanical engineering at Notre Dame. It's crazy.

At the same time being the best offensive lineman in the country. Yeah. Yeah, like no one else does that. Well, and you kind of, even though you've been playing offensive line the whole time, because Joe played tight end through high school, but they kind of knew he was going to be an offensive lineman originally. But it sounds like the physical journey for you has been fairly similar to what his was, where he was taller and thinner and then developed the the size to go with the athleticism

yeah and i think it's good not to rush when putting on weight because that's when you'll develop bad habits oh yeah oh yeah i used to play offensive line i know i know yeah but the putting on the weight part a lot of fun when I was trying to do it. Not a lot of fun when you don't play football anymore and you just keep putting on the weight. So you're going to be one of those guys that like you're going to play at Notre Dame, you're going to play in the NFL,

you're going to retire, you're going to weigh like 225 a week later. It might happen, maybe. Well, you got it all figured out. I appreciate this. I like this. You love the challenge and you've got the plan. Good luck to you got it all figured out. I appreciate this. I like this thing. You got, you love the challenge and you got the plan.

Good luck to you. Thank you so much. That was awesome. Will Black. Yeah, that, that putting on the white, interesting comment from Christopher in the chat that, Andy showed my wife your stream and she said, Oh my God, he looks like your twin.

Have you ever heard brian austin green references because i have so to what i was saying to well black remember i enjoyed the gaining weight part of playing offensive line a little too much messed up the eating habits and so it was much heavier than this for most of my adult life so no i got fat ray leota rest in peace. He was never fat. They meant I looked like a fat version of him. And I also got Fat Gary Sinise. I got a lot of that.

Never got the guy who played David Silver in 90210, but who knows, maybe that's next. That was a lot of fun. I told you guys would love O'Black. Got some good nicknames in the chat. Squatchatron from Goat Dog. The Big Poutine from Christopher Jordan. Now, he's not from Quebec. He's from London, Ontario. So I don't know if we, can we take Poutine? Is that okay? We'll see. But very excited to see what Will Black does

because that guy definitely seems to have things figured out. I'm not a tiny person, by the way, but I was watching that interview back and going, holy crap, that guy is much bigger than me. He is huge. Yes, we had some incredibly athletic offensive tackles at the Elite Series last week. Excited to see what they do. David Sanders Jr. is the top-ranked offensive tackle in the country.

He's going to be deciding on a school here. We think later in the summer. But keep an eye on him because he and Will Black are physical specimens. These humans didn't exist when we were in high school. This is incredible what guys are able to do now on their way into college. And it's going to be really exciting to see what they develop into. But it was a lot of fun at the Elite Series last week. You're still going to see some more from that.

In fact, Pete Nacos will join us tomorrow to talk about some of the stuff we learned at the elite series. It's going to be a lot of fun and we'll talk to you tomorrow.