Andy & Ari On3 - The NEVER-TOO-EARLY 2024 Top 25 | Jim Harbaugh vs. the NCAA | Michigan's Future Ahead

Episode Date: January 10, 2024

It's the day after the conclusion of the College Football season, and Andy has his eyes set for the fall already. Andy brings on Jesse Simonton to discuss his Way-too-early Top 25 Ballot ahead of the 2024 season. Do you agree with his list? Andy also talks Jim Harbaugh's interesting point on paying players and takes a look at Michigan's remarkable season and future ahead.Today's show is sponsored by PrizePicks, the easiest way to play daily fantasy. All first time users that deposit and use the promo code ANDY will receive a 100% instant deposit match up to $100. If you deposit $100, PrizePicks will give you $100. If you deposit $50, PrizePicks will give you $50.Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/ivHR/ANDY(0:00-2:17) Introduction - The Day After(2:18-29:11) Jesse Simonton joins to discuss his Way Too Early Top 25(29:12-45:19) Jim Harbaugh vs The NCAA(45:20-57:20) Clayton Sayfie Joins to Dissect Michigan's National Championship(57:21-58:45) Conclusion - Dear Andy Tomorrow! Email your questions to [e-mail] to watch the show instead? Head on over to YouTube! https://youtube.com/live/Q8yBhHQbi-M

Welcome to any staples on three two thousand twenty three football season is over final press conference of the season Jim Harbaugh Blake Corum Will Johnson celebrating Michigan's national title pretty much the last official act of the two thousand twenty three season but it is never too early to start talking about 2024. Yes, I know Jesse Simonton on the headline of his top 25 says it's a way too early top 25, but there's no such thing as way too early. We got to start talking about 2024 now,

if only because this is the biggest off-season of change the sport has ever seen. Teams are moving to different conferences. The playoffs are going to be 12 teams next year. So we got to start talking about who's going to be good. We got to start talking about what we need to be excited about. And Jesse, he got us going. So during the national championship game drops the top 25 for 2024, are these going to be the correct answers? Probably not. But I think for some teams, there's a reason to be very excited for the next nine months that you've kind of built some momentum to this point and it's time to get really jacked up about what 2024 could be for your team. So we're going to talk to Jesse about all those teams who didn't make it,

who he thinks might make it ultimately, and also the teams I think he might have a little low. Because there's a couple. There's one especially. Got a QB I really like. I'm cranking up hype trains all season long. All off-season long. Because we got roughly eight months before the next college football game. But it's going to go quick. Because we have a lot to talk about in between now and then.

And we have a lot to be excited about, as you will see when Jesse and I start previewing the 2024 season right now. We welcome Jesse Simonton, who is at the Coaches Convention in Nashville. How's everybody, Jesse? How are the polo shirts? Are the head coaches walking through the lobby pretending to be on their phones

so 90 people don't come up trying to ask for a job? Well, you know what? A lot of head coaches are back at their schools trying to keep their rosters intact. I would say some of the folks here have have played off that i would call that the jimbo fisher i think that's a classic jimbo fisher jimbo fisher sometimes would have two phones in both years um the the way he's talking to recruits jesse the way this convention set up at the gay lord um there's a lot of different doors for them to go in and out of if they want to sneak in. It's funny, this is a four-day convention this year. It's a little bloated.

It's been newsy behind the scenes, but it's been good. It's been worthwhile. Well, I am glad, and you dropped a hammer during the college football playoff title game with the way too early top 25. And as I just told the people, we shouldn't call it way too early because it's never too early to talk about the 2024 season. coming that we need to keep talking about it just to remind ourselves so that we know who's in what conference and how the playoff system works like when we get into the season so we're not surprised because i i do think there's gonna be a lot of casual fans who get to the 2024 season like holy crap what just happened well i mean at first glance if you and we're gonna we're gonna run

through it i know but if you take a look first glance at my way too early top 25, it is, it's like, Holy hell, you know, what's going to be really fun next season, the big 12 and the ACC, they're probably not, they're not going to win the national championship. I think I can say that some 12 months out, but those two conferences have a lot of teams that are going to be competitive. And it really is a crap shoot. It's just like, it's putting a bunch of, you know, to be competitive, and it really is a crapshoot. It's just like it's putting a bunch of balls in a bag,

shaking it up and rolling it out and saying, all right, these are the two numbers that you're going to pick to play for each title game. It's going to be a lot of fun. Well, let's talk about the way too early top 25. The top 10, other than Notre Dame, everybody's in the Big 10 in the SEC. Is this what we should expect going forward that for the most part the sport is dominated by the Big 10 in the SEC yeah and you'll notice who's not on there Oklahoma LSU Tennessee teams that could you know I think nip

their way into one of those 10 spots absolutely Absolutely. But I think you're right. You and I have talked about this before. I mean, I think if you're putting an over-under for the 12-team playoff next season, the SEC probably stands at about four. The Big Ten is maybe at about three and a half. And so when you're talking about maybe seven of the 12 spots, I think this is what that 12-team playoff is going to look like

until, Andy, we both know that they kind of come up with some more parameters here in a year from now. Exactly. So you've got Georgia at number one. And I was watching Twitter as I'm at the national title game, and I saw that Georgia's tight ends coach, he tweets out the face palm emoji as he's watching

the game. Like, Hey, and the subtext of that is, Hey, if we'd have been there, we could have beaten both these teams. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if they could have beaten Michigan, but I do know that Georgia still feels like the most talented team in America still feels like the deepest team in America. And they just played the wrong game at the worst possible time in 2023. Well, I think the key for Georgia too, Andy, is that when you look at these 10 teams in the top 10 that I have, they probably feel the best about their quarterback. I know Texas likes Quinn Ewers, Jackson Dart, Ole Miss, Drew Aller at Penn State, Brady Cook even at Missouri, but I think Carson Beck probably him coming back, him announcing that decision to return for Georgia for 2024

when you couple with the fact, you talk about I'm here at the coaches convention, folks still believe that's the best roster of 1-85 and they believe based on some of the guys that entered the portal and based on some of the guys that didn't that Georgia did a really good job when push came to shove of who they were able to keep in Athens for next season. Yeah, Georgia lost a lot of guys in the portal, but they were not guys expected to be starters or really on the two deep at Georgia. And you're right about Beck. I mean, Beck came back to be a top five pick in the NFL draft. That's why he's back at Georgia. I would imagine he also comes back because he thinks he can lead them to a national title. And they did a good job

keeping who they wanted to keep. And the question is, they got a meat grinder schedule. They opened with Clemson, and then the new SEC schedule does no favors to the old East teams. Like for some of the old West teams, it's the same or maybe even a little bit easier, but for all of the teams that were in the East, it's harder. Like Georgia's going to Oxford next year. They are. The key though,

and is that I think that the, the, for the Georgia's, the Alabama's, um, even the LSU is if, you know, if,

if Baker can kind of fix that defense and kind of, you know, bring the best out of a guy like Harold Perkins, you're going to be afforded a mulligan or two. And that's why these schedules are going to be so awesome in terms of some of the non-conference games. Georgia opens with Clemson. They also play kind of an up-and-coming Georgia Tech team. Obviously, Alabama has the game with Wisconsin. LSU has two huge games, UCLA and USC. You know, a 10-2 team can still make the playoff from the SEC, and then it's going to be about your depth.

When you're talking about these teams having to play 17 games, Georgia's depth on the aggregate is typically going to win out. Yeah, and the thing is, and this is what I figured out this year, is that even the deepest teams are going to have flaws. And with Georgia, we saw when some of their receivers got hurt, it was a little bit harder for them to move the ball against Alabama. And so they're not going to be perfect. And I think that makes this exciting.

But if you still said, who has the best percentage chance of winning a national title, I think you're right about, about Georgia. Your number two team though, is fascinating to me for a bunch of reasons. You've got Texas at number two. Now I'm with you that I think Texas has done a great job developing the talent they have. This is a, you know, that big offensive line class is coming of age Kelvin Banks will be a junior DJ Campbell be a junior and then they're going to lose some some really talented players off the defense but they have a bunch ready to step in they do and and you know I and they're going to lose both of their top two receivers you know Xavier uh Worthy and A.D. Mitchell are both headed

to the NFL. But this is a group that they signed, I think, a couple five stars and a couple other blue chippers that got their feet wet this year, kind of getting in some backup roles. Playmaker is not going to be a problem for Texas. C.J. Baxter is going to be another year in the system at running back. And I think that some of the moves Texas has now done, some of the supplemental adding out of the transfer portal that we've seen these best teams do.

Who is one of the best edge rushers to enter the portal? Trey Moore from UTSA, guy who, you know, was one of the sack leaders in the country a year ago. Texas is not going to lack edge pressure. And so with him, the continuity with that staff, you keep a guy like Bo Davis in Austin. I mean, maybe Texas won't finish number two, but I think they have as high of an upside as almost any in the country next season. Well, let me ask you this, because this is a thought

I had watching the Sugar Bowl, and this is actually why I picked Washington over Texas in the Sugar Bowl. When Quinn Ewers is good, he's really good. When Quinn Ewers is bad, it's really bad. Is there a chance Arch winds up starting for Quinn? Absolutely. I mean, you can't rule that out. And that luxury, Andy, there's just not a lot of other schools that have that. You know what I mean?

I mean, Georgia feels probably pretty good about their backup situation now that they got Malavieva from UNLV. I mean, that really gives them some insurance there. But most teams just don't have that luxury. But Arch Manning is the best insurance. Right, but most teams just don't have that luxury. Texas has that. And I agree with you. team arch manning is the best insurance right but most teams just don't have that luxury texas has that and and when you're talking i agree with you i mean i think you know quinn's highs are as high as any but his lows you know you're dipping down into the basement there um yeah and so if that

consistency lacks it who is to say that that that uh steve sarkeesian wouldn't turn and say hey let's hands the let's hand the keys to the heir apparent already. Well, and I also think you have to give that assurance to Arch. You have to make sure Arch feels okay with that, that he has a chance to either win the starting job or if there's any faltering at all, can step in. Because otherwise, I don't know if you want to hang around for another year. And he's there and like the one thing with se and texas is an sec school now so we have to remember this with the sec schools you cannot play next year at an sec school if you

didn't enter the portal this past window which is now closed closed. So he's there probably. And I think that he's got to have a chance. There has to be a path for him to play if things don't quite work out with Quinn. Yeah. And, and, you know, again, I think when you're, when you're just circling these, these, this is way too early. We're sitting here talking about, you know about stuff that's going to happen in September,

October, here in January. Texas feels really good about its quarterback situation, whether it is Quinn or Arch to start the 2024 season. Yeah, it's going to be fun. And they're going to enter the sec with massive expectations which i kind of love i like i like that texas has massive it which and i'm sure the oklahoma fans are like how come we don't we're the ones that usually beat them well and you did beat them last year but oklahoma's an interesting we'll talk about them in a second but let's talk about alabama

right now because you've got them number three. And the Crimson Tide just had a situation where they probably would have won the Rose Bowl. And I think they would have beaten Washington had they won the Rose Bowl. But they could not snap the ball effectively in the Rose Bowl. And they did not have a backup center that they felt like they could put in in that situation. Again, this is like I was talking about with Georgia and the banged up receivers. Nobody's perfect anymore. There are no perfect rosters. There are no super deep teams.

So if you're Nick Saban, how do you build the most perfect thing you can with what you got? Yeah. And for me, this is kind of betting on when I'm making this projection, I'm betting on a year to leap with Milrow, you know, making that Ascension under a second season, you know, as kind of the anointed dude, uh, under Tommy Reese. And then Andy, I mean, guys at our company are as high as anybody on, you know, justice Haynes and Jan Miller. And so the fact that these, these you know two blue chip tailbacks

really only got kind of a cup of water you know this year i think they're going to be drinking out of the hose uh next season i mean they're going to be the guys and so you add them plus i think caleb downs in that defense just isn't going to take a step back regardless of who fills in for kevin steel at dc so the Justice Haynes thing was interesting to me. It reminds me a little bit of when they gave Derek Henry a little more run in the Sugar Bowl against Ohio State after not using him very much in 2014. And I think we're going to see a lot of Justice Haynes early on based on the flashes we saw in the Rose Bowl,

which those of us who follow recruiting and obviously on three we all do we're very excited to see what he could be and i can so i kind of thought it was almost like uh 28 or 2017 18 nausea harry didn't you get those vibes like in the national championship game a little bit so the nausea thing the national championship game i always felt like was saban saying i want to make two of more comfortable by playing the back. He usually plays with in practice with the twos. That's what I always thought that was Henry. Like I know what the situation with Henry was.

I talked to his high school coach about it. The year he won the Heisman, Henry went to Saban and was like, look, I'm leaving if you don't use me. And they did. So, you know, look, I'm leaving if you don't use me. And they did. So I just think, exactly. So we saw Justice Haynes and a little bit of what he can do.

I think it's a reason to get excited. But another group that should be excited, you're number four. This is the one that I think, moving to a new conference, they've got the NIL thing going better than almost anybody. They've been great in the transfer portal, but they're still getting blue chippers out of the high school ranks. The Oregon Ducks. Dylan Gabriel's coming.

You know, Oklahoma had to choose a quarterback. Had to be Jackson Arnold or Dylan Gabriel. They choose Jackson Arnold, who has more eligibility remaining. But Dylan Gabriel joins a very talented roster. Quack, quack, Andy. I'm all aboard the Duff train. I think that this is kind of a – they're almost hitting like the perfect storm, I think.

They're going to enter a conference where they arguably will have, if not them or either ohio state the best one through 85 um in the conference they do have a veteran quarterback in dylan gabriel you get a nice backup at least with a high upside and dante moore and then they've done a dan lenny's done a great job at you know convincing guys um and nil certainly is is plays a part of it oregon is that is as aggressive as any collective in the country. But of convincing guys to say, hey, let's come back to school. So Tez Johnson, you know, Bo Nix is one of his top receivers a year ago.

He's coming back to school. You get Jordan Burch, the five-star you got out of South Carolina transfer defensive lineman. He's coming back to school. The linebacker's coming back. So you're getting a lot of returning production. You're adding another top 10, top five recruiting class. And we're, we're seeing that they're, you know, they're kicking the tires on some guys that are as good as any in the portal,

including Evan Stewart. You land him quack, quack. Well, and you've got a big 10 trio there at four five six and you're gonna make people mad because you have ohio state ahead of michigan there and the ohio state thing's fascinating to me because listen existential crisis after three consecutive losses to michigan the kyle mccord thing is as weird as it gets he's gone they're bringing in will howard now quinch on judkins from old miss joining up with the buckeyes they're probably going to make some more staff changes it sounds like so this could be a really different looking team than the one we saw against missouri or the one the last

time we saw him full strength against michigan what was the what was the old andy staples computer rankings what were those the a oh the a.s. the andy staples show computer laptop organized win nexus uh i think i i would have done pretty good with that right if i put the team it's never been in the big 10 at four yes against the team that had traditionally won the big 10 at five but has lost it three years in a row to the team that just won the national championship at six i think i think i did pretty well on those rankings by your metric. Yes, you set it up for maximum outrage. Maximum outrage.

It's beautiful. The Ohio State's fascinating because I think I'm going to have a piece coming out on this later in the week, just kind of what they've done in the portal. To me, Andy, and you can speak to this. Maybe I can bounce this idea off in real time. It certainly seems like Ryan day for a guy who's lost less than 10 games is feeling as much heat as anybody. And he is now reverting back to kind of what I think urban Myers offense was,

which is it's less like, let's have the firepower, you know, throwing the bombs down the field. Let's get physical and start grinding it out with the quarterback run game. I think they're going to run Will Howard. I think they're going to feed the rock now to Quenshawn Judkins. Maybe McLaughlin plays guard instead of center because he can't snap the ball, but he's a quality at least, you know, just when it comes to blocking. He's a very good blocker.

You're talking about Seth McLaughlin from Alabama. Yeah, he's got that part, right? It's just the snapping that was the issue. So it seems to me like they're going back to kind of that Ohio State ground and pound, which was the Buckeyes' path to success. It's almost as if that's what wins in the Big Ten traditionally and now. It's almost as if that's what won the national title last night. Yeah, and you know what? Ohio state had some great receivers then too. And so it's not to

say that they're not going to throw the ball to the likes of, Oh, the number one player in on threes rankings, Jeremiah Smith, who they were able to hold on to it. This is good. I think Ohio state will be one of the most fascinating teams between now and this time next year to see what happens. Oh yeah. Now we can't go through all 25 obviously, but I got a couple that I want to ask you about. So you've got LSU at 13 and I find LSU very interesting. Obviously they've had to replace the two coordinators. One got fired, one one left Blake Baker from Missouri comes in the crazy, like Blake Baker was a position coach who got fired from LSU on Ed Orgeron staff, not because of anything he did wrong, but they were firing the whole staff.

And now they bring him back as a big money coordinator after a really good year at Missouri. But can he make that defense halfway functional? Cause they're gonna have a good offensive line. Garrett Nussmeier seems like a quality quarterback they're probably I don't know if they'll have the the receivers they had with Malik neighbors and and Brian Thomas but they're gonna have good receivers like can he make that defense even average it hadn't been averaged the last two years it's been awful last two years it's been terrible it is pretty funny though to to to kind of put a hammer on the nail that you, you, you just kind of spike there.

Brian Kelly determined that Blake Baker wasn't good enough to be on his staff just, you know, uh, 18, 12, 24 months ago. And now he brings them back as the highest paid DC in the country. This is, you know, sometimes it pays to be in the right place at the right time. And, you know, Baker did that with the returns he got at Missouri. I think the key is, Andy, are they just going to unleash Harold Perkins? And can they get better production out of these blue chippers that they have on the defensive line? Because those guys have just not

delivered the results. The other thing is the big sore spot has been the secondary. Which is wild at LSU. Yeah, I mean, this is formerly DBU and it's been transfer portal U, but it's really been bust U. These guys have just come in and they've just sprung a leak. And so they have to get those two parts right. Blake Baker did more with less with the Tigers the last two years. So if he has a little bit more blue ship options to work with, I know they're trying to hit the portal. I have full confidence that LSU is going to be fine offensively.

Replacing Denbrock is going to be a challenge. But they're kind of a pivot team. They can go up or down. You mentioned how much fun the Big 12 and the ACC could be, not necessarily in terms of the national title race. But, listen, the champions of these leagues are probably going to be the three and the four seed in the 12-team playoff because of the way the rules are set up. The Big 12 is crazy because Arizona comes in.

Utah's got Cam rising back. Kansas Kansas state I'm all in on Avery Johnson like I'm I'm ready to go I predict I made JD Piquel predict who he thought would win each conference and I pick Kansas state in the big 12 Oklahoma state like they're almost always good they got Alan Bowman back, Kansas. Lance Leipold doesn't seem to be slowing down. Like Jalen Daniels is back. That league's going to be wild. You know what that, what's that quote from the Da Vinci code where he's like Scott Toma,

the mind chooses what it's the mind sees what it chooses to see. That's kind of how I see the big 12. I mean, it's like you just named half a dozen teams, and you can create whatever you want to see. That path is there for you. That vision is there. You can storyboard it out. And so any of those teams could win the Big 12. That's going to be a fascinating conference.

You mentioned Alan Bowman. I mean, I think it's going to be the Gordon show it's gonna be the Ollie, you know, the Gordon show again, uh, for the folks. Cause they, they, they convinced him to come back. I'm not unconvinced that the Gus bus down at, you know, UCF, um, JJ Jefferson, baby. Yeah. Could at least, uh, enter the fray there as a potential contender. So really, really fun league. I, as you said, the fact that one of those teams may be the three or four seed is probably absurd.

But, you know, that's the situation we're dealing with. Got to keep those conference championship games interesting, and they certainly will keep them interesting. You had the ACC. So you've got Florida State 17, Clemson 18, Louisville, 19 and Miami at 21. Miami is the one for me that I feel like if they ever put it all together, this, this could be a league they can take over Clemson, their refusal to, to work in the portal.

I feel like it's still going down. I'm interested to see how Florida State reloads. So Clemson seems to have like a December through February problem right now. Miami seems to have a, you know, March through November problem. Yeah. So it's like, which, which one works out? Crystal ball's got all the talent, but the development and the in-game coaching on, you know, those September Saturdays is just what's plagued the program. Clemson, their roster is just not where it was when Davo had these teams winning national championships.

I'll tell you the fan base that is lighting my mentions on fire, though, Andy. The NC State Wolfpack are feisty, and they are rabid that I did not include them. And NC State, they were one of the French teams. Oh, absolutely. And that's the thing is, is we got to see how these things coalesce. Like Florida State's got DJU now. I don't know if DJU is the starting quarterback at Florida State. He still could be Brock Glenn for all we know. And it really just depends on,

on what happens in the spring with a lot of these, these quarterback battles. And there's a lot to chew on for these next few months. Jesse, this is going to be a very, very exciting offseason. You got some coaches to talk to, so I'm going to let you go talk to them. Tell them all we said hi. I will. I will. That's Jesse Simonton.

I'm sure we'll have a few more top 25s. You got the one now. We've got the pre-spring top 25. The post-spring practice top 25. The pre-media day is top 25. The post-media day is top 25. The official pre-season poll. That ought to get us through the off-season, right?

That's enough. Yeah, we got all kinds of stuff. We got the NFL draft coming up. We're going to get into college hoops. Speaking of which, if you'd like to get into college hoops right now, I mean right now, open your PrizePix app. What, you don't have the PrizePix app? Well, download it right now because it is America's best, easiest,

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and the college players are getting the NIL money. They're taking advantages, but Michigan coach Jim Harbaugh, he's been stumping for the players to get a bigger share of what the schools are bringing in from the TV money, the ticket revenue, everything. He doubled down on that the day after the national championship game. He had some really interesting things to say. Let's break down Jim Harbaugh versus the NCAA right now. We usually don't spend a lot of time on this show talking about all the changes in the rules and what needs to happen next. We mention it every once in a while.

And I think everybody kind of knows where college sports is going, but I thought it was interesting that Jim Harbaugh took a lot of his press conference to celebrate Michigan's national championship, explaining what he thinks needs to change in the sport. And he's been pretty outspoken, but I think it's particularly interesting because of what he's dealt with in the past year his animosity towards the NCAA toward the Big Ten I think probably informs how he feels about some of this stuff but I find it intriguing that a lot of times we'll ask Jim Harbaugh questions in press conferences, and the answers will be fairly scattershot,

almost like he's filibustering. He just wants to get this out of the way, doesn't really want to give us an answer. There was an answer to a question on Tuesday that was clearly planned out, that had talking points, some of which you've heard before, but then he expanded on them.

It was organized. It was not what you're used to hearing from Jim Harbaugh, not the style of speech you're used to hearing from Jim Harbaugh because clearly this means something to him. I'm not entirely sure. It's all out of the goodness of his heart. I think a lot of it is he would like to see the NCAA, maybe the Big Ten, lose on some stuff that they would like to win.

But very intriguing answer from Jim Harbaugh to a question about what he would change in college sport. Maybe in chaos with all the stuff with NIL transfer portals, the playoff format that's changing. Do you think it's a sustainable model? And if you could change one thing about college football, what would it be? The thing I would change about college football

is to let the talent share in the ever-increasing revenues. I mean, we're all robbing the same train. And the ones that are in the position to do the heavy lifting, the ones that risk life and limb out there on a football field are the players. And not just football players, student athletes. The organizations are fighting hard to keep all the money, the universities, the NCAA, the conferences. And it's long past time to let the student athletes share in the ever increasing revenues. I mean, it's billions. I keep reading facts about how much money is being made.

I mean, product placement. Yeah, I can't have a can of a different kind of soda up here. I've got to put it into a cup here. Jim Harbaugh is a Diet Coke guy. CFP is a Dr. Pepper event. So, yeah, can't have his can of diet coke up on the podium during the national championship press conference but what he points out stuff he's been saying the robbing the same train quote you heard that on saturday harbaugh's been talking about this stuff

for a while but clearly antagonistic you know he does not like the NCAA. They've been investigating him over this Cheeseburger Gate thing for over a year now, and I think that relationship is not real good. So my guess is part of this is out of a desire to see the NCAA, which has been fighting legally for a long time, to see them lose. He would like to see these people lose. But he's not wrong about everybody trying to fight to protect their money. And the thing is, there's more money coming into the system.

There's an ESPN report on Monday night that the new playoff, the 12-team playoff, the new contract that starts in 2026, could fetch $1.3 billion a year. That's almost a billion dollars more than the old one did. So there is continually more money coming into the system. You know about the new Big Ten TV deals. You know about the new SEC TV deals. So he's right. There's more money to spread around. If they start spreading this to some of the players, they probably don't get sued as often, but you could also just let the man have his diet Coke. Uh, I mean, everybody, everybody is, uh, you know, they're, they're maximizing every single revenue source there is. And, um, but they're not sharing it with the,. I mean, there's no business that that would ever fly. I mean, the Supreme Court has said the same thing. So yeah, that's a big one.

Yeah, I would change that one. And there needs to be a voice for the young people, the student athletes. Right now there is no voice. I mean, there are armies of attorneys, and I've seen them, you know, at the NCAA. I've seen them at the universities, the conferences. And then, you know, if they don't have enough firepower legally, I mean, they go out and hire, you know, the tall building law firms and they get more firepower. It's just – but there's no voice for the student-athletes right now and that just needs to change.

That's a wrong that needs to be righted. Yeah, we read the legal back and forth when the Big Ten suspended Jim Harbaugh over the sign-stealing accusations, and the Big Ten had a lot of legal firepower. Michigan hired legal firepower to help Jim Harbaugh, but he's absolutely right. The NCAA, the conferences, they keep hiring ever more expensive lawyers to protect their money when they could just get to what they're going to inevitably get to anyway. He mentioned the

Supreme Court there. There was a nine nothing verdict in the Supreme Court a few years ago in the Alston case that, look, we know where this is going to go. You know how this story ends. And with Jim Harbaugh, I think a lot of people are thinking, well, he's out of here. He's going to the NFL anyway. This is him just sort of burning the bridges on the way out. I don't know about that. I also don't know if he's necessarily going to the NFL. I do think he is calculated in the way he looks at this, and there's a kind of right side history thing going on here where that is where it's going to go. So him being the first major coach to advocate the way he is for this,

to have this platform and use it that way, I do think there's a little bit of calculated effort there. But I think he also really believes this. And probably good for recruiting. If we look at it that way, probably I would imagine recruits hear these comments and say, you know what? I'd rather play for him than a coach who says, well, I quit before the schools can pay the players. A few coaches have said that, by the way. So, what is Jim Harbaugh's solution? Starting to compile a list of just the excuses that

people give for not. It's complicated. What about this? What about that? All I know is there's there's plenty there there's some there's some i have simple math i mean not anybody that's profiting off of the student athletes me included anybody who's drawing a salary making a livelihood a lot of people sitting here robbing the same train as well that it could take 5% to 10% less of what they're getting. Every organization, universities,

a lot of them that are collecting that money tax-free. At least if you gave it to these guys, it'd go back into the economy through taxes. The NCA, conference commissioner, Big Ten office, all the conferences, five to 10% into a pool, that's one way. And things happen fast this year. You saw it.

I mean, people say it's complicated or it takes time. We saw a lot of change, you know, in one year, just this year. A whole conference went into the portal overnight. Look at Jim Harbaugh trying to grow the economy, trying to grow the GDP by spreading out. When he said these guys, he's talking Blake Corum and Will Johnson were on either side of him as he was saying this. The 5% to 10% thing is interesting. I think it would actually cost more than that ultimately if you fully game out what Jim Harbaugh is talking about, where players have a union, there's a collective bargaining agreement.

It'll be more than five to 10% that they'd be sharing with the players. Although they are, remember they are paying scholarships, that sort of thing. So that percentage is a little higher as it is already, but the five to 10% thing is interesting because let's say Jim Harbaugh stayed at Michigan, the new contract that's on the table for him. If he were to take five or 10, five to 10% off of that, he would still be making more than he's making now. So he's going to do fine one way or the other don't you worry about jim harbaugh he's also not wrong about all the excuses they make about how complicated it is and how you can't do this and you can't do that but when it's their money when they're worried

about not being as economically sound as a what they consider to be a peer institution well they're worried about not being as economically sound as what they consider to be a peer institution, well, they're happy to make knee-jerk decisions. He's right about the Pac-12. That happened over a crumbled overnight. Now, the things that led to when Oregon and Washington decided to go to the Big Ten, when Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah decided to go to the Big 12. Those happened over a period of years, but all of the stuff, the big decisions happened over a period of weeks.

So it's not as complicated as they think. If you really want to make a new system, just go make a new system. If you're tired of getting sued, just listen to Jim Harbaugh. So, you know, these things could, these things could happen. Hopefully there'll be some real, I don't know, whether, I mean, for a long time people say, you know, the unionizing would be bad. I mean, maybe it's that, if people aren't gonna do it, if they're not gonna do it out of their own good will

and do what's right, I mean, that's probably the next step. You think, you think, got nothing against unions, so that's the next step, fellas. I mean, I think that's the way you got to go. That's what I'd like to see change in college athletics. It's a funny story from our friend Sam Schwartstein. And we need to have Sam on the show. He's a brilliant football mind.

He played center for Harbaugh at Stanford. If you watch the Amazon NFL games on Thursday nights, Sam is on the alternate broadcast where they show you all the advanced stats. Again, he's brilliant, but he tells these hilarious Harbaugh stories. One of them is about how Harbaugh tried to convince the Stanford players. They were the ones that who needed to unionize first and that they're smart guys and they could, they could help college athletes all across the country. And then he got to the real reason why he wanted them to unionize. And that's because he wanted the players to say, well, we would like to negotiate so that we could have more than 20 hours of football per week.

Cause the NCAA only allows you to, to practice them 20 hours a week, meet 20 practices meetings. They have a kind of defined amount of stuff you can do within those 20 hours a week. And so Harbaugh wanted them to unionize so they could negotiate more hours into the CBA so that they had more hours to game plan. So again, not entirely altruistic, but also kind of understanding probably of where these things are going. And you're not going to get an antitrust exemption from Congress if you are the schools, if you are the conferences. So if you're tired of getting sued, there is a way to fix that. And that is to negotiate with the players. The reason the NFL

players aren't constantly suing the NFL, they have a collective bargaining agreement. Everything is governed by that. They go to arbitration if they have disputes. That's what you could have in college sports. It's not cut and dried. It's not easy. But again, when it's the school's money on the line, they seem to make decisions pretty quickly. And there are some court cases coming down the pipe where their money's going to be on the line and they're going to need to make some decisions pretty quickly. So this is something that we could see what Jim Harbaugh is saying come to fruition. Now, the question is going to be, is Jim Harbaugh going to be in college sports to find out how all this works?

Or will he be in the NFL where they already have a CBA and a Players Association and everybody already knows how all of it works. It's a good question. In fact, let's talk to Clayton Safey of the Wolverine about that, about J.J. McCarthy's decision, and about what happens next at Michigan after a historic national title. Joined by Clayton Safey of the Wolverine.

It's been about 16 hours now since Michigan won the national title. We've heard from Jim Harbaugh and Blake Corum and Will Johnson. They're still happy. Newsflash. But now comes the next part. What happens with Jim Harbaugh? So what is the expectation in Ann Arbor about what happens next over the next two weeks? I think the expectation is that things kind of go pretty similar to how they have the last couple off seasons.

I mean, he hired Don Yee, high-powered NFL agent. So I would imagine that Don Yee's been doing some things behind the scenes. And really, to me, it's more about to make sure that Jim Harbaugh has every option that he could possibly have. It doesn't mean he's not going to come back to Michigan. I think he probably could have gone to Denver last year, decided not to. That's my opinion. I think others share that. He wanted to go to Minnesota the year before, but couldn't. So I think that he's unpredictable. I would not be surprised if he's coaching an NFL team next year. I wouldn't be surprised if he's coaching in spring ball in March.

He's moving it back a month, he said. Exactly. That was the thing. It's funny because everybody took that different ways. Some people were like, oh, that means he's definitely staying. Some people were like, no, that's so that they can get everything in place after he leaves. Or that he could be. I said this to you after the banquet when everyone was reading into those comments.

He operates as if he's going to be in his current job. And really, there's no other way to operate. He doesn't have another job. He's going to plan. He was planning at this time last year renovations for Schembechler Hall and all that. I said this to you on the show a month ago, but I think it bears repeating. He got a new lease on a car. He got a Tahoe and turned in his truck.

And everyone's like, OK, he's staying. That was two years ago. Interviews with Minnesota. So all I'm saying is that this guy operates and works his current job until he doesn't have another one, even if there are things going on behind the scenes. And look, I think that's just kind of what this is. And we don't know. I mean, we don't know what his preference would be of NFL teams if there's a situation

where I'll go to that one, but not that one. Well, so he told Gatlin Bear, top 100 wide receiver, and this story was in The Athletic. From Idaho. Yes, from Idaho, which Michigan is trying to get a strong hold on. And really, Colson Loveland, they have one. He told this to The Athletic, and then he also said it to our E.J. Holland over at The Wolverine that Jim Harbaugh was straight up with him, basically saying that, yeah, if there's a job that gives me everything that I would want, I would consider that.

And Blake Corham said it today. I mean, J.J. McCarthy said it in the past. Like, these guys are in a similar spot. The NFL is interested in them. Harbaugh mentioned that in the press conference today. And they understand that, like, he's a coveted coach. He's a fantastic coach. He's a legendary coach at this point.

He's going to have different people coming after him. So that's not a bad thing. You would prefer that probably over the alternative, even though it adds some more drama. Well, right. I mean, when they were trying to run him out of town three years ago. Now he's like, oh, now you're mad at me for wanting to look around. Exactly. And it's funny because you think about it like the Washington job, which you would say normally they've been so bad, but they're under new ownership.

Yeah. You'd be in the same metro area as John Harbaugh. You would not be in the same conference as John Harbaugh. Jackie could move into the area. Exactly. Also, you got the second pick so you can get a quarterback. Like, when you look at some of these situations, you could go to, you know, if you go to the Chargers, you get to coach Justin Herbert. There are definitely some attractive situations out there. But you know what's also attractive? Coaching at the University of Michigan in 2024 because the contract's on the table.

We know that. You know, he'd make him the highest paid coach in the Big Ten. He's willing to take the pay cut. If not, if he's going to give more to players, we'll talk about it. As long as we do, too. Yeah, we will do that, too. Even though Will Johnson and Blake Corham make more than I do, at least. Probably me, too.

But I do think he's got a situation where if he comes back, they can run this thing back. This is not a question of will they have the talent. They do lose a lot. But it is amazing when you think about what they're bringing back, especially along the defensive line, skill position guys. We'll see with J.J. For sure.

J.J.'s the big one. Blake's obviously gone. Donovan Edwards will have a decision. Had a big game last night. But think of the sophomore class, though. Will Johnson was sitting up there today. We mentioned him a couple times. But Mason Graham, Kenneth Grant, your guy.

Oh, yeah. Who had just, I mean, the bull rush in the sack was incredible. Yep. But that sophomore class is really good. I was watching their offensive line warm up before the game and thinking, there's a bunch of dudes that are really good athletes here who we haven't seen on the field yet. Yeah, and a lot of those guys now that Sharon Moore is a few years into being offensive line coach were handpicked by him and starting to be developed by him as well.

It's funny, the O-line is going to have some change here. But, you know, look, Trevor Keegan wasn't a starter until he was a starter. Jack's interesting thing. So I think that there'll be, you know, it'll be new faces. I think people might be a little uneasy about that, and we'll see what they do else in the portal. But this team is going to have a lot of talent back. I think the portal, I think Jamal Banks, Wake Forest receiver,

he's going to decide this coming week. We'll have more on that at thewolverine.com this week. So they're going to get more from the portal. They have a lot of talented players that are going to come back. This is a team that can compete for the national title next year. Well, right, and Michigan's one of those that they've done well strategically recruiting out of the portal. They have a lot of talented players that are going to come back. This is a team that can compete for the national title next year. Well, right, and Michigan's one of those that they've done well strategically recruiting out of the portal. When they find a spot they need to fill, they fill it.

And it's interesting because they are one of the teams. So the SEC has that rule where if you want to transfer to another SEC school, you have to enter the portal during the winter window. You can't do it in the post-spring window. Michigan's one of those teams players from the SEC would want to transfer to, so you could potentially get them after the spring if there's somebody you like. And that may include quarterback. Right. And this week at the national title game, as you would expect from what we have gathered,

has been a pretty big week for Michigan's NIL efforts as well. I know that's been an issue for them in the past, amazingly at a program like Michigan. But they're starting to get that together, and again, we'll have more on that this week as well. But Michigan's starting to kind of get that support, and I think that could help Portal and guys returning too. They started the Those Who Stay campaign

where guys are going to be able to be compensated like a Donovan Edwards, Junior Colson, if they decide to come back. So you're looking at the other teams that may other teams are maybe ahead of them in the portal back in December, but these teams that were in the playoff, I think are going to play a little catch up here. And the retention piece of it is more important with NIL than I think most people realize. I think people look at it in terms of recruiting, be it out of high school or be it out of the portal.

Retaining your best players is the best money you can spend in NIL. Well, we saw that come to fruition Monday night. Yes, for both teams. Yes. Yeah. Right. Yeah, that's true. There were some good pieces that I read this week on that as well from Washington's side,

which I didn't know about until this week. Yeah, they're very efficient. Like, they don't have the most money in the world, but they're like, let's keep our offensive line together and make sure our quarterback's here. They win the Joe Moore Award, the quarterback finishes runner-up in the Heisman, and they make the national title game. And I will say, too, the Michigan players that came back, it wasn't really all for NIL.

I think the Keegans and Zinters and Corums were going to come back anyway for different situations. Corums hurt and everything. I will say this before you continue with that. The culture they have and the bond that this team seems to have, you can kind of get a discount on an IL if the guys like playing together. For sure. I think they're doing that right now.

Michigan fans are hoping they can just do both, right? Yeah, exactly. Pay them well and get the guys to buy into the culture and everything. Hey, maybe that's harder to do, and maybe that's why they won the national championship. But just a little off topic, I don't think they win this national title last night if they didn't lose to TCU last year because that sparked a lot of guys coming back. I saw you tweeted about that.

You reposted the Robert Griffin third tweet of J.J. McCarthy watching the Purple Confetti fall in Arizona. And let's expand on that a little bit because I'm curious. What about that loss provided lessons that they used this year? I think it's the lessons, and I think it is part of, as we've talked about, those guys, some of the guys coming back. If they would have made the national title game, look, they would have had a shot to beat Georgia.

They probably weren't going to beat that Georgia team, especially on that night. But, you know, so maybe they got their national title there. Probably not, right? I mean, they were underdogs. You know, Georgia looked incredible against TCU. But that's probably a two-year run that ends with a national title game loss, Blake Corham, maybe some other guys leaving. Now it's a three-year run, and the scars that they built up from those games

drove them towards this. So it drove J.J. McCarthy, who had a tough game in certain respects against TCU, a good game in others, but made some costly mistakes, obviously, as we all know. The other guys, the offensive line didn't play well. So I think it drove those guys from this time last year. It was January 8th when Blake Corham decided to come back, and others followed him. So they just talked about it and talked about it. And the food menus up at Schoenbeck, their hall, said Houston or bust on every single day.

So we're in Houston. They won the national title. It's crazy to say, but I do think that Michigan fans should almost look back fondly on, this is a three-year story. And you don't get the third Big Ten championship. Maybe you still do, but you don't get this national title without those losses to Georgia and TCU. Yeah, because I do think if they'd made the national title game last year,

there would have been some satisfaction. There absolutely would have been. Okay, we won a playoff game. We got over that particular hump. I can go now. 100%. Let's talk about J.J. and his decision, because I came out of the game last night saying he needs to Let's talk about J.J. and his decision.

Because I came out of the game last night saying he needs to come back for another year. Yeah. I mean, that was not his best game. He's had, you know, some games here down the stretch. And I know he was hurt at the end of the regular season. And I think it was much worse from what we've heard, too, than what people say. Oh, the way they shut things down in the Penn State game because they were worried about protecting him, that tells you they were very worried about his condition. For sure.

And even in this game, everyone's like, wait, if you don't run him in the second half of the national title game, which they started to a little bit, when are you going to run him? But he's fragile a little bit because he is a smaller quarterback. But I think he could use another year. I think he also, you've said it, NFL scouts. There's one throw in the game where you're like, that's it. I've seen all I need to see.

He's ready to go. The way the offense is built, there's not all these opportunities. So he can do all the things you want an NFL quarterback to do, maybe not as consistently as you want him to do. I almost want to see him play in a more pass-happy offense for a year, but that's not going to happen. Right. Whether it's Jim Herbar or Sharon Moore running the program,

like that ain't happening. It's going to be Michigan football. I also do find it funny that if there were people complaining about, you know, just the way the game went, second, third quarter maybe last night, it's like, well, you haven't watched much Michigan football. That was Michigan football. They do have these little droughts that they get into. But they eventually wear you down.

And that's exactly what they did to Washington. Right. So I just thought that was a funny aspect of the game as well. It's like, welcome to Michigan football. And also, welcome to the Big Ten, Washington. That's how the games are going to go. But no, I think JJ, you know, I would have said coming into this game, leaning towards leaving, I would probably still say that,

maybe around the 50% mark. Yeah, it sounded like, especially during the pre-Rose Bowl run-up, that he was definitely thinking, I am good enough to go right now, that I'm as good as these guys that are in the quarterback draft class right now. And you saw if Michael Penix Jr., who is another member of this quarterback draft class did not have the greatest night against Michigan and he'll have his own issues he's got you know medical stuff the the three season-ending injuries when he was in Indiana so we'll see what happens but there's no clear

like under it because the Drake May stuff has changed a little bit. So there's no clear path or pecking order under Caleb Williams right now. Right. Jaden Daniels, Drake May. Pennix. Yeah. And depending on how many quarterbacks go in the top 10, top 15, like J.J. McCarthy could be the number four quarterback off the board at number 15 or 18 or whatever it would be.

Yeah. In this class. We could go in the Will Levis slot like last year and wind up a starter. Right. So you don't know. But he also could come back. And it's funny, when you win a national title, it is like, to a certain extent, he's kind of accomplished everything he wanted to do here.

So I think that is going to play a part. I think other decisions, including Jim Harbaugh, could play a part. But J.J. has now less than a week where he has to decide. Yeah, Harbaugh's decision may stretch out longer than J.J. has time for. But J.J. may have an idea of what could be coming, I think, with if there are interviews and that sort of thing. So that, other decisions from different guys, because I think part of last year, too, not to keep going back to it,

but a lot of those guys came back because the other guys were coming back. Right. Keegan and Zinta were a package deal. Yeah. And so on. So I think it's going to be interesting to see kind of what dominoes fall first and when they fall and all that. Well, there's probably going to be a parade.

Saturday. Saturday. Do you love a parade? I love a parade. Everybody loves a parade. I haven't been to many, though. Same with Harbaugh. I don't know if I've ever been to a parade.

Well, I've been to parades. I'm trying to imagine Harbaugh on a parade. Fourth of a parade. I haven't been to many, though. Same with Harbaugh. I don't know if I've ever been to a parade. Well, I've been to parades. I'm trying to imagine Harbaugh on a parade. Fourth of July parade. So does Harbaugh sit in a convertible and do the pageant wave? Is that how we're going to do it? He probably will. I think back to when I played high school football and we had the homecoming parade and everybody's just in the bed of a pickup truck.

Right. I feel like the personality of this team, that's how it should be. Find your local Ford dealer. Yeah. And everybody piles into the pickup truck beds. That actually probably will happen. And they're just, hey. Right.

That probably will happen. It's going to be freezing on Saturday, but you wouldn't have it any other way. Of course. It's January in Michigan. It's parade weather. That's right. Clayton, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Thank you to Clayton Safey. We'll be talking to those Wolverine guys quite a bit over the next few weeks because there are things to be determined. Jim Harbaugh's future, JJ McCarthy's future, you name it. So we'll talk about the defending national champs. Boy, I'm sure the Michigan fans

love the sound of that. They are the reigning national champs. And next year, they'll be the defending national champs boy i'm sure the michigan fans love the sound of that they are the well the reigning national champs and next year they'll be the defending national champs but i'm sure if you know a michigan man they will remind you of that fairly frequently it's all right they earned it 15 and 0 undeniable guys it's been a lot of fun i'm leaving houston be back home on wednesday for a dear andy show so we want your questions you know how to find me i'm like dion i ain't hard to find andy underscore staples on twitter andy underscore staples on instagram andy staples on three at gmail.com you can email me your question or turn the camera on yourself. Send in the video. We love the video questions. I know you got a lot because there's a lot going on pretty much every day in college football.

Listen, the season is officially over, but college football never ends here at On3. Talk to you tomorrow.