Andy & Ari On3 - UConn SHOCKS Duke: Why Braylon Mullins’ shot vs Blue Devils is an ICONIC NCAA Tournament moment | Will Texas be DIFFERENT in 2026?

Episode Date: March 30, 2026

On Sunday, one of the most iconic NCAA Tournament moments happened as UConn’s Braylon Mullins sent the Duke Blue Devils home in Washington D.C. Is this one of the most iconic March moments of all time? Andy explains why UConn and Dan Hurley knocking off Jon Scheyer’s Blue Devils is a top tier moment in all of the NCAA Tournament.   (0:00) On Today’s Episode (0:53) Presenting Sponsor (2:20) Intro: UConn’s unreal buzzer beater vs Duke (13:27) Duke Losing = Ohio State Football (25:59) Culver’s (27:56) Dan Hurley’s Legacy (34:53) Arizona making the Final Four (40:55) North Carolina HC Search Update (53:36) On3 welcomes Wilson Alexander: Inside Will Wade’s Return (55:27) NC State hires Justin Gainey (56:45) Texas: different in 2026? (1:06:52) Revisiting Duke vs UConn (1:07:40) Andy’s Dancing (1:13:24) Conclusion: See you tomorrow!   Next up, Andy & Ari stay in the realm of basketball and dive into North Carolina’s head coach search. Who will be the new head coach of the Tar Heels? Would Dusty May, Tommy Lloyd, or Billy Donovan land in Chapel Hill? Andy & Ari dive through the latest out of UNC here.   On3 welcomes its newest member as Wilson Alexander joins the crew as a national college sports reporter. Andy & Ari dive into Wilson’s first story with On3 as he details Will Wade’s return to Baton Rouge.   With Will Wade headed to LSU, NC State has now filled its open vacancy. Tennessee’s top assistant Justin Gainey is headed to Raleigh. An NC State graduate, Gainey has been Rick Barnes’ top assistant for the past few seasons, leading the Volunteers to three straight Elite 8 appearances.   To close out the show, Andy & Ari dive into a story from On3’s Chris Low on why the Texas Longhorns football team will be different in 2026. Leading Texas in his 6th season, watch as Andy & Ari explain why Sarkisian feels different about the overall state of things in Austin.   Thanks for watching! Be sure to join us tomorrow!   Andy & Ari are live at Culver’s Game Day Hub in Indianapolis on April 4th, capturing the energy, flavor and hometown pride that make this city come alive on game day. They’re bringing you the best moments from a day filled with games, fans and plenty of Fresh Frozen Custard.   Our show is also presented by BetMGM!   If you haven’t signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code CFB and you will get up to a $1500 First Bet Offer on your first wager with BetMGM! Here’s how it works:   1. Download the BetMGM app and sign-up using bonus code CFB. 2. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game. 3. You will receive up to $1500 in bonus bets if your bet loses! Just make sure you use bonus code CFB when you sign up!   Make this college football season one for the history books. Make it legendary.   See BetMGM.com for Terms. 21+ only. US promotional offers not available in New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER (Available in the US). Call 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP (AZ), 1-800-327-5050 (MA), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR). First Bet Offer for new customers only. Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel.   Join On3 today! https://www.on3.com/join   Watch our show on YouTube! https://youtu.be/_9Z81Fe9kxA   Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari Wasserman Producer: River Bailey   Interested in partnering with the show? Email [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On today's episode of Andy Nari on three presented by BetMGM, Duke lost in spectacular fashion in the elite aid. Or Yukon won in spectacular fashion, however you want to slice that. But most people were cheering because Duke lost. Ari and I are going to examine that phenomenon. Why do people hate Duke so much? Is Duke basketball analogous to any college football program? And why is that Ohio State? Also, we'll talk about the games of the final four.

Plus, Steve Sarkesian tells on three's Chris Lowe that Texas has the elite talent it will take to win the national title. We break down what he said. Is Texas really different this year from last year? We'll talk about it all on today's Andy Nauri on 3, presented by BetMGM. We are sponsored by BetMGM home of the pick a twin to win free-to-play game. The Cabinor Twins are facing off in the Court of Legends game at the Bellagio in Las Vegas,

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Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler in the U.S. Call 8778 Hope N.Y or text Hope N.Y. 467369 in New York. Call 1-800 next step in Arizona. Call 1-800-327-50-0-0 in Massachusetts. Call 1-800-off in Iowa or 1-800-9-181-0-0-2-3 in New York in. Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only, subject to eligibility requirements,

rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in seven days in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use the bonus code CFB and get your $1,500 first bet offer today. Welcome to Annie and Arion 3 presented by BetMGM and Ari. The Duke's Blue Devils have gone down in spectacular fashion. I jumped off my couch and screamed when Braylin Mullins hit the shot. You were on a plane watching it live. How did that go? I screamed. You know how when you get so immersed into a moment, like you forget your surroundings? Like that happened to me. I was like on a plane watching it. And, you know, we had our, my wife and our four-year-old daughter. And like I just had my head down like this watching the whole game.

And for the most part, like, the game was boring because Tuk was winning by a ton. But in that last second, I yelled on the plane foul, foul, and then they never fou. That's what I was yelling too. Yeah, I think everybody was yelling foul, right? Like, you know, the Cajona used to have. Except Dan Hurley. Which is, we'll talk about that in a second. But then when the shot went through, I like jumped up a little bit and like my knees hit the, the tray table that was down.

because I was watching the game on the tray table and my wife's like, what the hell is your problem? And I was like, I couldn't really So you were ripping farts and she was wondering about that too. It was a really weird flight, Andy. The person in front of us, I think was the person doing it. It's a very uncomfortable situation when it's a plane that the air conditioning

isn't working really well. It's a long day. We were at the beach earlier. It was just like we weren't feeling great. And somebody was just blasting farts the entire time. But when Mullins hits the shot, you freak out. Did anybody else on the plane see it in real time and freak out too?

I think there were a few people in the back of the plane. But I was sitting around nerds apparently who don't like Final Four or games that take you to the Final Four basketball. And I think we were also probably like three or four minutes behind the rest of the world. And like I didn't know it. Like I was like watching it and I'm sure you saw it like five real time or four real time. Because I don't know how up to speed Southwest's like actual television feed is. but it was really, really cool. And I got to say, Andy, I'm no basketball historian.

I, uh, you know, watch March Madness with the rest of the world. And I will say this for my personal experience, as somebody who has, you know, struggled with hyper, hyperbole in his life cannot remember a single moment like that. There have been buzzer beaters. There's been game winning shots. There's been a lot of stuff like that. But the way that that played out was so different to me. Is it crazy to say that that was a top three buzzer-beater NCAA tournament moment of my lifetime?

Not crazy at all because I actually ranked the top 10 buzzer-beaters in NCAA tournament history, re-ranked because of what happened last night. And I put that one at number three. I've got it behind the Leitner shot to beat Kentucky in 1992, which I watched live as a kid. and that still is the best one for me. The game was played at such a high level. The other part of that one was that game was so much better than a lot of these other games where maybe the part that led up to the shot was not as interesting.

Everything about that game was interesting. And so that's why it's still my number one. I have the Chris Jenkins shot number two because now they wouldn't have lost the game had Chris Jenkins missed. It would have just gone to overtime. This is Villanova, North Carolina in 2016. But first of all, North Carolina hit a three to tie the game just before that. So you had kind of dueling buzzer beaters.

And then the Chris Jenkins shot is one of those where a person rises, releases ball. You see the backboard light up to denote zeros on the clock. Ball goes through confetti falls. Like that's, you can't top that. It has to be for a national title. The only way to top that is if somebody hits a game winning shot in the national title game, game that takes them from losing to winning as the clock expires, which Gordon Hayward almost did. That would have been the greatest shot ever.

That would have been the greatest shot of all time if he would have made that. It would have been the greatest shot in the history of basketball period. It might have been the greatest shot or one of the greatest moments in the history of sports. Yes. So I put this one number three. One, because of the distance, we're talking about like maybe 35 feet. He launches it from the between the E and the S in March Madness on the court, on the logo. So he's way closer to half-forth than he is to the three-point line. So there's that.

There's also the circumstances of how they got the ball, which is what we're going to talk about with Duke. Well, that's the thing that is lost here, Andy. Everybody wants to focus on the shot. It was the circumstances of how they got. No, everybody does not want to focus on the shot. No one wants to focus on the shot. Everybody wants to focus on how Duke blew it.

But I think that when you think about buzzer beaters, though, you think about the shot, but I think what makes this unique to me is how the shot happened. Yes, how they, got the ball. So 10 seconds left, they get the ball. They've just made a free throw to cut the deficit to two. It is 7270. There are exactly 10 seconds left. Now, those of you who grew up playing basketball know there's something special about that particular amount of time. It's not that we know the shot clock's off. But with only 10 seconds left, you do not have to

cross half court. This is important. This is something to. This is something to to keep track up. Now, the rest of the situation, Yukon has seven team fouls. So the next two fouls by Yukon give you one-in-one free-throw situations. So this is an advantageous. Like, if you're down two,

I think most coaches would say, let's foul the first person who touches the ball, and that way that person is going to the line for one-in-one with nine seconds left. If he misses the front-end, we're in business. We got a two to tie or a three-to-win, and we got eight seconds to make it happen.

Both teams had a timeout. So Duke in bounds the ball. They complete three passes. Three passes. The ball gets to Caden Boozer, the freshman. Caden Boozer sees two players on his team in the front court, unguarded. The reason they are not guarded is because the two Yukon players, including Brayland Mullins, have collapsed on Caden Boozer

because they have basically decided we are done if we let him get the ball into the front court. He throws it. It's tipped. Mullins gets the ball. He throws it to Alex Caraband, who immediately sees 6-9 Cameron Boozer in front of him, and it's like, nope, can't make this shot,

kicks it back to Mullins history. I still cannot believe what. I saw. Now, we are going to break down basketball here for a second. Basketball theory. For Duke to even attempt the pass, was that a brain fart? Yes. It's a complete brain fart because there's a couple things you can do. You can hold the ball and let them foul you. And then you still have the whole front end of the one-on-one situation. But Taden Boozer, good free throw shooter. That would have been fine. That had been very advantageous for Duke. they fail you, if you make two free throws, you win the game.

If you miss one of the free throws, they're still in a situation where they only have four seconds that have to go the length of the court. Well, he could miss the front one too, and they don't get any points. But they still only have four seconds at that point to get it all the way down the court. Right.

And you might get the rebound if you miss the front end of the one in one. Yeah. So there's that. And the other option is call time out. and you go and then you inbound the ball. And even if they foul you, you're going to waste another second or two. And so then it's three seconds

on the front end of a one and one. But instead, he tries to throw it and Silas Demery tips it. And that's the thing. Like even the pass he chose was a brain fart. If he goes underneath and bounces it, one of the other two Duke players is going to get it in the front court

and the game's over. In his head, though, is if he gets the pass off cleanly, the game's over. So which then brings me to my other. Which is true. What kind of onions does Dan Hurley have to have to attack that situation

without fouling? It's interesting because I've been going back and forth on this because I thought we were going to get to the press conference and Dan Hurley was going to be like, I told these idiots to foul and they didn't foul. That's not what happened.

They were pressing the entire time the goal was to turn them over. That was the goal. The goal is to free. And it's, I think it's, I don't think I'm giving Dan Hurley too much credit here because the man's already got two national titles. He may have a third by next week. I think he, he's smart enough to understand and maybe understands better than other people, that doing that is more likely to cause them to freak out than doing the thing.

because they are anticipating you to foul. Yes. And if you don't do, but still, if they didn't, if Boozer's pass would have made it through without it being tipped, and maybe this is irrelevant because it didn't happen. But if they would have gotten the ball all the way down into the front court. Hurley gets killed because he would have gotten, Duke helps that as time expired and wins by four.

Yeah. But it's guess it doesn't matter. wouldn't have, I mean, it worked. So, I mean, it was a right call, I guess. And we always do this in football where it's like, do you go for it? Do you punt? They go for it. They don't get it.

You know, like that was going forward on fourth down. Yeah. That was their, his version of going forward on fourth down. Or that was his version of blitzing, like running a zero blitz. Yeah. On a key third down. Exactly. And getting a sec.

So, I mean, it's like the same thing of like the Kirby smart fake punt stuff, right? Like it's like, oh, it didn't work. He's an idiot. But like if he would, if that would have worked, he would have been a genius. So like it worked. But I cannot believe because I was like you, Andy, I thought after the game was over, that would have been a misfire that wound up to be fortunate for Yukon, but that was the plan. Yeah.

And John Shire is just getting destroyed, by the way. Just getting destroyed. Now, part of this is people truly enjoy watching Duke basketball lose. That's what happens when you're really good for a long time. when your legendary coach might have been the tiniest bit holier than now. And it makes people want to see you lose. There's another thing about this too.

Yes. The Duke basketball losing in a high-leveraged NCAA tournament game is up there with trying to think, watching Aaron Judd strike out in a key situation. Like there are certain franchises in schools that just draw this from people. And people hate Duke. People hate the Yankees. People hate Notre Dame football.

People loved watching Alabama lose during the next saving era. But you pointed out to me, you sent this text. There's one other thing with Duke before we get to that, Andy. And then I did point something out to you. We'll get to that in a second. I think also Duke is a small university that has a lot of fans. And most people who didn't go to Duke didn't go to Duke. And I think people are sent that.

So, like, you know, now go to your thing because I think that they're different in this regard. Because you were going to say that they are the basketball version of Ohio State football. Which is what you texted me this morning. You said Duke is the basketball version of Ohio State football, which I do think that's where Ohio State football is right now. And there's there are a lot of similarities. The one difference is Ohio State did win the national title in 2024. So that in Ohio State is a public university in a state and they have a ton of fans and it's a massive place. And a lot of their fans are they don't have as much.

Yeah, it's not as big of a sidewalk alumni thing. But is Ohio State a big route for Ohio State even if you've never been to Ohio team? Well, no, everybody else hates them. Yeah. I feel like they don't have, they have a huge fan base, but I don't think a large portion of their fan base is people who have never stepped foot in the state of Ohio. Like I think there's a lot of people who root for. for Duke who have never stepped foot in the state of North Carolina. That's probably true.

But in terms of how they win and how they lose and how they stock their teams, these are probably the closest comparisons we have right now. Because Ohio State football does not lose unless it is a high, high leverage game. Think about the games that Ohio State has lost. Big Ten Championship and the Cotton Bowl this year. The Michigan game and the game at Oregon. last year. They just, they don't lose games.

They're not supposed to lose under Ryan Day. The games you remember them losing under Ryan Day are like the Peach Bowl against Georgia, where the field goal falls short as the clock strikes midnight. And if Ohio State makes that field goal, they would have beaten TCU and won the national title. So like that's, those are the games and the whole country, because sort of like Alabama, when Saban was winning, the whole country is tired of watching them win other than their own fans. And it's also another thing where we've joked about this with the Big Ten trifecta shirt.

They don't, they're not, the other Big Ten fans aren't rooting for Ohio State. Like, Michigan's fans sure as hell aren't, but I don't think Purdue fans and Minnesota fans are either. Like, they, they like seeing them lose. I think it's the same with Duke. Everybody who isn't a Duke fan likes seeing Duke lose. Here's the thing, because I think that they are the same exact program when it comes to how people perceive them. But there's another aspect of this, too. And I know that Ohio State is a year removed from winning the national championship. Ohio State also went about 10 or 11 years in between them.

And had a ton of really, really good players in elite level teams. And I kind of feel like the team photo from Duke last year resembles the famous photo of Ohio State's receivers on the bench sitting next to C.J. Stroud. I'm sure you've seen that picture. Yeah, yeah. Marvin Harrison, Jr. Jackson, Bethan Jigba, all those guys sitting on the same team. And it's like they did not win a title.

And part of me, too, is like, it has been now 10 years since Duke has won a championship. And I think that... It's been 11 years. 11 years now. And I think that it's kind of an interesting discussion because I think that Ohio State's lack of championships during the 14 playoff era was more inexcusable than not winning it now because

I think winning a national championship in football, though always very hard has gotten a lot harder in the last, you know, four years, two years, sorry, not two years, the last, since it went from four to 12, you have so many things you do. It's harder to win it all. But when you think about the amount of players that Ohio State has turned into pros, This is the example that I use. And you have a good retort for this and I'm excited to talk about it. But players or a coach is pushing a grocery cart through a grocery store.

Ohio State, Alabama and Georgia are all shopping at Whole Foods and they're all putting the same ingredients in their carts. They're buying the same quality produce. They're buying the same sauces, the high quality meats and they're going home and they're cooking a meal. The meal that comes out for Ohio State, though very good, is never as excellent or has traditionally never been as excellent for a 10-year period as what you were getting from Alabama on an annual basis. And I think that that was probably frustrating from an Ohio State perspective and part of the reason why the Big Ten as a whole has an SEC complex. Because for all those years, while Alabama was dominating, Ohio State physically was one of the only other teams in the country. if not the only team in the country that was equipped to compete with them, and they never really did it.

Now, maybe that's right. And then Georgia beat them when Alabama. And then Georgia took the mantle from the same grocery cart and then did it to them too and beat them head to head in a game that Ohio State, you know, blew a 14-point lead and had a chance to win as time expired and didn't. Now, this might all be a moot point because Ohio State won the championship last year. And, you know, but when I look back at at all of the NFL draft coverage that we're currently watching right now, and you view all the players that Ohio State is putting out, yes, they did win a championship for Ohio State last year. But like Arvel Reese and players like that who are, you know, were really good this year, it just seems like in a complete, unbelievably bad missed opportunity to have that many good players leaving your team as first round picks and not winning at all.

And it would be one thing if it was a one-off. But this is a very familiar feeling for Ohio State fans. I think if you asked an Ohio State fan in their most honest moment, although very successful, winning 10 games a year, winning the Big Ten a lot, if you believe that Ohio State has gotten the win equity or the win output that they should have, considering the sum of its parts that the program has in terms of players, coaches, coaching salaries, you know, resource. versus location, stadium, everything.

I think the honest question is they have not maximized what they should have won. And I kind of not as bad as the Duke list because because of the one and one and done thing. Like here's the thing. You can say what you want about Arvo Reese, Caleb Downs, like they're going to be drafted really high this year, but they didn't win the national championship. They did win a national title for Ohio State. You know who didn't win a national title for Duke? Marvin Bagley, Zion Williamson, RJ Barrett, Palo Bancaro, Cam Reddy. Cooper flag, con canipple.

These are all like top five in the eight days. Or they were the same team. Like I like listen, I'm not a very Irving. And like I think that it's worse for Duke too because they, the last, you know, few years or even just, you know, in general, they've seemed to find new creative ways to lose in ways that are just not normal. Like they don't just lose. They lose in like gut-wrenching bad fashion.

And like last year. team that was, I thought, one of the best college basketball teams ever assembled. You know, I know you pointed out earlier on the phone today that statistically that might not bear out, but in terms of the talent on the court and the way that they played the game, statistically, the 4-1 seeds, which included this year's Duke team, were even better than last year's Duke team. But here's the thing about last year's Duke team. They're in the national semi-final against Houston.

They are winning, I believe, by six with 35 seconds ago. They are outscored nine to nothing in the final 34 seconds of the game. an all-time meltdown. And it is crazy because as wild as that sequence last night was, as wild as the sequence that led to the Braylen Mullen shot was, I think it was even more statistically unlikely for what Houston did to do to happen. Yeah. Yeah. Then what happened last night.

I think that the single moment from last night was worse, but the amalgamation of moments that led Houston winning was probably statistically less unlike or like more unlikely yeah yeah the aggregate the aggregate number of mistakes it it took yeah for them to blow it to houston that brings us to the john shire discussion i got a text from a friend of mine who's a duke grader they do exist by the way there are duke fans who went to duke they exist so i had a text from a duke grad friend this morning shires on the hot seat and i'm like stop it stop just stop because duke fans are mad at him in a way that they're right they are they're They are. They are. But here's the thing. I'm going to say the same thing I say about Dan Lannning,

Kirby Smart. I'm going to say that about John Shire. You keep knocking on the tour you're going to get through eventually. It's hard to win national championships. And by the way, Dan Hurley made me in the process of breaking everyone's brain just like Nick Saban did. This is a good segue because I have two questions for you. Well, before we do that, we have to play one piece of audio. Before we get to the Dan Honey part, producer River, please play the Duke radio call from the end of the game. in. They do for Boozer. Fobbled it. Back for Star. Needs to get rid of it. It does for Caden. Seven seconds. Try to throw it ahead. Deflected. Stolen by Connecticut. Two seconds. It's Mullen's up top for the win. Oh, we hit it. With three-tenths of a second to go,

Valachi Smith ran off the bench. That should be a technical. But with three-tenths of a second to go, Connecticut has the lead. 73 to 72. As Connecticut got the three from Mullins after the turnover from Caden Boozer. The biggest, my daddy is a lawyer and he will sue you energy coming from that call. Malachi Smith, by the way, was on the court for Yukon. So he mis-IDed the dude with dreads. There was a Yukon bench player who for about a tenth of a second set foot on the court because he couldn't believe what he just saw.

Thankfully, the refs weren't lame and did not call that. the way that the call went, because I've listened to that like a hundred times, like it was the most understated, depressed. Oh, yeah, and he made it. Like, it was like, it's like the biggest moment. Well, yeah, you can't freak out. If you're the home team announcer, you can't freak out when the, when the other team. No, I know.

I know. But like almost feel like you, if you were listening to it live, it was so understated for what the moment was that you're not even like, like, wait, did the shot go in? Like, I like, had to, like, did you did the shot? He made the shot? They're winning. Like it was so understated. Like it wasn't even adequately informed. But immediately.

And this is why people hate Duke fans. This is why people hate you. Immediately you go to you should have been a technical foul. Yeah. Because he ripped off the bench. It's a wild. I mean, that would have been like,

I think the entire sports community would have revolted if that happened. You know, you hear something that's Duke Whistle. Like that would have been the biggest Duke Whistle in the history of Duke Whistle. It was unbelievable. Okay. So now I want to ask you my questions. Okay.

Before you do that, before you do that, I want to remind everybody, because now we know which team. So all of Ari's friends who went to Arizona, I expect to see you on Saturday in Indianapolis, because we will be there. We will be at the Culver's Game Day Hub in Lugar Plaza, 200 East Washington Street will be there from noon to 4 p.m. We are recording a show there.

We'll have some very fun guests. I texted with NBC's John Fanta, who is, I believe is the next, like, true face of college basketball media guy. He's so much fun. He is, there's no one who loves college hoops more except maybe Bill Raftery and Dick Vital. But Fana's coming. He's going to hang out, have some frozen custard with us. We're hoping his hat, I believe we're going to have the bread basket bros.

If you do not follow them on social, they are hilarious. So it's going to be awesome. We're going to have frozen custard. I'm going to make sure there's some butter burgers there for us. Sorry. Maybe get you a walleye sandwich. Yeah. I mean, just do your old pal of favor, make sure they've got, they got some fish on the barby. You know what I mean? Like, I'm ready to, I'm ready to party. We had so much fun with Culvers at the draft last year. It's going to be

even better at the final four. So, you know, we know the combatants now in the final four. We've got Arizona. We've got Michigan. We've got Illinois and Yukon. So two great games. But yeah, all of Ari's Arizona friends, Come on. Listen, we know there's a ton of Michigan fans who listen to this show. Come on by. We know you're going to be there. It's not a bad trip. So. What a game that's going to be. I can't wait. On Saturday, Lugar Plaza 200 East Washington Street in Indianapolis.

The road ends right there. The frozen custard starts right there. We'll see you at the Culver's Game Day Hub. Also, if you can't make it, enter the swish-swish dish sweepstakes through April 5th for a chance to win $2,500. All right, all right. Now you're Dan Hurley questions. I actually have a third question, but that'll be for later in the show. Dan Hurley, Ohio State questions, just to wrap a bow on that. First question is, in your perception, and I don't know there's any way to quantify it,

I just know what your opinion is. I want to know what your opinion is. Is it harder to win a basketball national championship in this era or a football championship? Basketball. Because, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Football, and in the previous area of football, there was a specific way to build your roster. You built it that way. You had a chance. You paid the price of admission. And actually, we're

going to talk about this a little bit later when we talk about Texas and Steve Sarkeesian. There's a way now to get yourself admitted into the sweepstakes. It's just there's more teams in the sweepstakes now. Basketball, one that the two eras have changed, but also there was always this element of random because it's a sport played by five players at a time with, you know, a three-point line that changes the math for everything. And so there's always this element of variability in a single elimination tournament where you have to win six games to win the championship. It's much harder to win in basketball. There's a reason we've only seen two back-to-backs this century, and Dan Hurley has one of them. And I don't know. I mean,

he's, I think he's doing something that maybe we don't appreciate how hard it is. Because we saw Nick Saban win six national titles at Alabama between 2009 and 2020, which I don't think we're ever going to see anybody do that in football again. Maybe who knows, Signetti might win six in six years. Who knows? But. Well, I knew, I knew what you were going to say. Yeah.

Because I agree with you. But it also lays me up to the second question, which is going to put you on the spot, because I'm always in deep hot water with Ohio State people for being maybe overly critical. Maybe my Ohio State brain has, my Ohio State brain has impacted my opinions on other things that are unrelated to Ohio State. But then my Ohio State brain has also poisoned my standard for what I expect from them. So maybe it's kind of like a double-edged sword. But I wanted to ask you this, do you think, and this isn't just a Ryan Day thing, this is equally go back to the to the Urban Meyer era. that Ohio State has won enough given the ingredients.

Yes. Okay. They went three national titles this century. Tressel got one, Meyer got one, days got one. They might get more. They've won enough. It's hard to win the national championship. It's hard.

It's hard for Dan Lannning. It's hard for Kirby Smart. Because Kirby Smart won two. And I'm sure there's Georgia fans. They're like, you should have four. It's hard. It is very difficult to win them. Okay.

You're never going to get me saying that somebody who is consistently good and has won a national title is underachieving or is not doing what they should be doing. Because I do think there is an element of randomness when you get to the very end, especially now in a 12-team tournament. And maybe Nick Saban broke my brain. But when you think about when I think about the. total sum of its parts for a decade. I think it's absolutely insane. They did not win one between 2014 and 2020. I got to tell you, Ari, like, if Dan Hurley takes Yukon,

they beat Illinois, and then they beat whoever wins the Arizona-Michigan game, and they're three national titles in four years in this environment. In basketball? Yeah, no, it's insane. It would be nuts. It would be incredible. We have a 30-second conversation about how much of a psychopath that human being is, and I mean that in a compliment.

Okay, yeah, here's a thing. If Dan Hurley's a football coach, do we think he's a psychopath? Because I think everything he does is just like the football coaches we know and love. Did you see the clip of him wiping his forehead against the refs? Okay, that was a little weird. I mean, did you see the clip of Kirby Smart Jedi mind-tricking the officials in the Auburn game? I mean, I did see he was clapping when he was actually calling time out? Yeah, no, I do, I do.

And when I think psychopath, I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean, like, he's like scared. Did you hear the audio of Kirby Smart? Yeah, yeah. From practice the other day. Like, like with Dan Hurley and Kirby Smart might be the same person. Yeah. And I also think that it's easier to stand out with your psychopath,

nature in basketball because it's a smaller court and there's more camera time on the bench, whereas Tom Mizzo has said this in interviews because Tom Mizzo also wishes he could be a football coach. and he said one of the reasons he wishes he could be a football coach is you can freak out on the sideline and nobody noticed it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure that there have been a million moments where a coach freaks out, grabs a face mask, does something or behaves like Hurley does. And it hasn't, it's just no one knows about it because that wasn't shown on TV. And it's also much harder to identify when that is happening in a press box because you're so far away and up. And, you know, I've seen things.

you see things up there, but it's harder to get it. It's so much more intimate in basketball. Well, in football, they've got the camera on the head coach the whole time. They've been doing that since the 90s. But it's still like there's, as Izzo points out, there's 100 players on the sideline, you're not always going to get a clean shot. If Tom Izzo yells at one of his players, you see it.

You can't miss it. I think it's much easier to miss important things that happen in football than it is in basketball. Oh, yeah, yeah. But yeah, no, it's truly. remarkable what he's done. And that was an entertaining game in Yukon. They're like covering 14 spreads in a row in the tournament.

Like it's insane. Yes. Yes. In this run, so they win the national title in 23 and 24, they barely lose in the round of 32 to the eventual national champion in 2025. Like they almost beat Florida. That's that's it. A narrow loss to the eventual.

national champion is their only tournament loss in the past three years. By the way. And now the underdogs again, by the way. Vegas is predicting, yeah. Bet MGM has put the lines out. Illinois is a two and a half point favorite against Yukon. What you make, look, if you watch

Illinois against Tennessee, you understand. Like Illinois. Yeah. No. Destroyed Tennessee. On the other side, Ari's alma mater, which I was a little shocked at this line. But I don't know. After watching Michigan last few weeks, it didn't make sense.

But Michigan is a one and a half point favorite. against Arizona. Michigan and Arizona, I feel like if we just randomly ranked the teams that are left, we would have these as the top two. I need you to counsel me on something. You know, this is the first time in my entire life that Arizona has played in a game of like this consequence. Aren't you born in 1997? Yeah, I mean, I was 10 years old and I like was like in Phoenix and I had no affiliation with U of A yet. So like, I mean, I guess like, I like, I guess like, I, I lived in Arizona, but like I didn't know.

I mean, it wasn't like I was really that bought into it. So the reason why I'm asking you this is like as a reporter, like I've been able to joke and to do the Wildcat logo and do all these things. But my affiliation, like I know it gets tricky for people like you, like Florida is good all the time. Like if you go to Ohio State or Michigan. But yes, I had to cover Florida national championships. Yeah, I'm like thinking about people that I know.

intimately like Nicole our back went to Michigan and Michigan in a major part of of whether it be winning things or in the news cycle for something else like is a major story like if you think about some of the reporters like in our sphere they have been a and I've been accused my entire career of being an Ohio State homer because I covered them but like this is the first time my alma mater in either sport is playing in a game on this stage. And I don't really know, like, obviously, like, if you know anything about me, you know that, like, I'm not sweating Arizona basketball games in October. I don't even think I could name your starting. You were like you did not grow up a fan of the school you attended.

And I think that's usually where the separation is. Well, and for us, because, like, I had to be a beat writer covering Florida, which it changes the relationship entirely. But if you didn't grow up a fan of that school, it's, you're not as sentimental about it. The people I know who grew up super fans of the school they wound up attending, they take the losses harder. They celebrate the wins more. Those, you know, it's a lifetime thing for them. Yeah. So like I didn't become or really never was a fan because I didn't even have like the normal college like, because I understand too, with like you weren't an Arizona fan, you grew up, like my friends that are all pumped up in the group chat. Like I've got a friend named Tim who grew up in the New Jersey area and didn't go to Arizona until college and then like went to the McHale Center in college and that was a huge Arizona basketball mutton.

It's like, but I never had that connection because I was covering football and was doing student newspaper stuff. So like it is very interesting because like on one hand, like I am sentimental about the place. I obviously love Arizona. It cultivated who I am as a human in a lot of ways. and a lot of my closest friends that I still keep in touch with today, went there and, you know, shared these moments with me. But at the same time, it's like, I'm going to be covering these games this weekend.

And it's like the first time that Arizona is actually playing on a, in football. Listen, if they hit, let's say they hit a buzzer beater to beat Michigan and, and like I have Arizona. You see it a little bit. You don't know. I don't have Ohio State gear. I have Arizona gear.

Like, I have hat shorts because that's what I wore to class every day. Like, we make fun of you for being in Ohio State home but it's a joke. We know you're actually not. You just covered them. It's like weird because I, as much as I, you know, would be impartial. And like if Michigan wins, great. It would be nice to see like I would like this moment for people that I know.

You know, like it would be cool for them. So it is crazy to me because Arizona has been a basketball school. And it is wild to me that it's been 20 years since they were back on this stage. like since Lute Olson days. And like when you think about another program that has invested and brought in really good players and done all those things too, when you talk about the level of randomness, like Arizona,

it's a long time coming for how much they care about basketball. They've had their guts ripped out a few times. Trying to get back to a final four. And the fact that they did it in emphatic fashion was really impressive. They all weekend, they look like a wagon. But I have, I have seen a lot of the, like, joke tweets recently about, like, no Duke, no North Carolina in the Final Four, no Blue Bloods this year. And it's just like, Michigan has been a highly successful basketball program.

Arizona is a basketball. Yukon has been awesome my whole life. Like, what are you talking about? If you're all pretty big. If you're just talking about the John B-line, Michigan era, like, they were really good. Yeah. They played the national title game in 2018 under John B-line. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, like, it's not like this is a weird that like hasn't been in this moment. But like I would be, if I were an Arizona fan, I would be insulted by the notion that they aren't one of the premier programs because they recruit and invest in their basketball program like a Blue Blood would. So like, it's cool to see. I know people in Tucson are super fired up. And, you know, frankly speaking, I'm fired up for my friends. And unfortunately, Andy, they won't be coming to the tailgate because they're doing what a lot of fans do, which is. you know, they'll go to Indy on Monday. If Arizona beats Michigan, they will fly in on Sunday

and buy tickets to the national championship game when they arrive on Monday or Sunday night. So, you know, I think that if I were them, I would go on Saturday, and I'm kind of going to make a point about that. It's like, how often do you get to see your team in the final four? But like, it is cool to see like a place that I actually have a personal connection to

actually, you know, succeeding on. this plane is new to me. And it's cool. Let's talk about a blue blood that isn't going to be at the final four, but may have a vested interest in what is going on in Indianapolis. Let's talk a little North Carolina. So our Pete Nacos at On 3 had a story that came out on Monday about the North Carolina coaching search.

So, and obviously inside Carolina has been churning out the hot boards and updating the hot board as things have changed and shifted. And basically, according to Pete, the two names to watch are two guys whose teams we just talk about. They're playing on Saturday night. One of them's going to win, when I'm going to lose. Tommy Lloyd from Arizona, Dusty May from Michigan. And these are both guys in situations where as good as the North Carolina job might be,

they might not want to leave for it. So that's a fascinating situation right there. but the fact that North Carolina has not made a hire, that you've not seen them dramatically, you know, shift to, oh, here's who we're looking at, suggests that whoever they're really looking at is still in the mix. Yeah. Sports different now.

And I wonder, too, like, you know, after we got done with the North Carolina discussion last week, Andy, I had this thought, and I actually regretted not bringing it up, so I'm happy I have an opportunity to do it now. but when you think about, you know, all the coaching discussions that we had and job status discussions that we had when the LSU job opened and who should leave and who should not leave based on, you know, is.

This is the same thing. The same thing. Right. And it's like kind of playing out, you know, that way. And I'm very curious. Except nobody left. Yeah. Right.

I'm just curious to see how it plays out because it's like if you are a coach who is not interested. Like as much as I just got done saying that Arizona success is really cool to watch, it's like, I cannot fathom. And Arizona, I think, is a top 10 job in America, maybe even a top seven, five job. I don't know. It would blow my mind if Tommy Lloyd was like, I don't want to coach North Carolina. Well, but why would that blow your mind? I mean, the guy is from the West Coast. He spent most of his career with Mark Fuitt Gonzaga. And then he went to Arizona. Like, I think it would be strange if he wanted to go across the country to a place that's not as good right now as the place. They have a workout in and out. They have in and out.

Let me ask you this. What's the first program that jumps into your brain when you say college basketball? Kentucky, Kansas. I mean, Kansas, they literally invented the sport. Their first coach invented this. North Carolina. And I think a lot of that has to do with Jordan. in like their color scheme and their logo. Obviously, the ones that you named are very impressive places that should pop in your head. But like, I just, Arizona is tier B, I think, of that.

So like. But if Arizona can win a national title now, if Arizona is giving you the resources you need to win, if you can put together the type of team. They just did. What Tommy Lloyd has put together at Arizona, that team is, that's a beautifully constructed roster. If they will give you the resources to do that,

to go get Braden Burries and to go get Co-opee, to have that level of roster. Yeah. You don't need to go anywhere else. And you just did the LSU discussion and why a person would have wanted to go. But Dusty Mays in the same boat. Like, why would you want to leave? And I'm not saying this to antagonize North Carolina fans.

This is not, this actually has nothing to do with North Carolina or whether it's a good job. It's obviously an incredible job. The thing is, there's so many ways to win now and so many places where you can win now, that if you're already out of place where you can win the national title, and this is, this was what we went back and forth about this fall as Lane Kiffin was trying to decide what to do,

where he had Florida after him, he had LSU after him, or he could stay at Ole Miss. And I kept saying, but why not stay at Ole Miss? Because you're proving right now you can win a national title there. The difference between LSU fans get mad at me because I said Ole Miss's ceiling was a national title with Kiff in there. But that's the truth. Yeah. And the basketball one, and the thing that I just took you down with Tommy Lloyd is different because Arizona's always had a national title ceiling.

Like that's not new. Like Arizona is not old Ole Miss. Arizona is already a destination job. Arizona would be like having, I'm trying to think of the football equivalent, but it'd be like having the Michigan job. job or the Notre Dame job, like a job where you have a chance every time. Yeah. Or like, who's the football program that has won a national championship in the 90s hasn't won one since, but is also very good usually.

I don't know who that is. More recently in the 90s, Florida. It's like Florida. So, you know, it's a great place. But I'm very curious if there are people who are currently in who I would consider tier C jobs that are like, ah, my ceiling's actually a national. title here. I'm not going to deal with that headache. Well, like Mark Buyington at Vanderbilt, who is one that if Lloyd said no, if May said no,

and there's another name in the NBA that we're going to talk about in the second. We talked about him a little bit last week. But if you wanted to hire Mark Buyington at Vanderbilt, you already could have. You would have already done that. So that's the one I think probably is the fallback if Lloyd says no, if May says no. And Billy Donovan is the other name out here. and his name has come up when these jobs have come open. The reason I said when Hubert Davis got fired to don't discount the Billy Donovan stuff

is Billy Donovan is working for an NBA franchise that is very poorly run. Which is real shame because that is an iconic NBA franchise. Yeah. They just, for the longest time, they kept making dumb trades where they'd get second round picks back. they don't have draft capital. They're trying to tank now, but they didn't try to tank the previous years. They just were like, well, let's make the play in tournament.

And that'll be good. They never really, they kind of existed in this weird middle. And so if you're Billy Donovan and North Carolina comes along, maybe you do want to try to come back because I do know from covering Billy for a long time, he was very happy to get away from college basketball recruiting when he was. went to the thunder to coach them. And I think there was probably a time when he probably said to himself, if I never have to be back in college basketball, I'll never have to recruit in college basketball again. That's fine. That'll be awesome. But college basketball recruiting has changed. And it's probably a lot more like signing players in the NBA. And if your front office sucks and won't give you a good roster, you might want to go to a place where you can be more in control of what the front office does.

Yeah. Which is a college basketball program. And I also think there's also a discussion that be had about whether North Carolina basketball is a better job than the Bulls coach. Right now? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah.

Oh. You know, and I don't know like how many college jobs. Like, are there college football jobs that are better than NFL jobs or is every NFL job better than a college job? I don't think the Cardinals job is right. Like, I would rather be the head coach of Oregon than the Cardinals probably. Yes. Or the Browns.

Yeah, or not. But I pile on a bro. If you have an organization that continually fails you, that's where you don't want to be in the pros anymore. Because you're not going to have the level of control over personnel that you want. And you'll get that in college. Your torpedo could get torpedoed or your career could get torpedoed. Yeah.

Now, Billy Donovan's career is already made. He wants you to have titles in college. So it doesn't matter. but it's not necessarily a legacy play. It's a, it's, I would call it a quality of life play. Right. So we talked about that story that you told me. Tell the, I don't know if you told me this in the car while we were driving somewhere

if you said it on the show, but for the sake of the audience, who may not have heard that out if you did it on the show, didn't you have a conversation or didn't Billy Donovan once confide in you that after he won his first championship at Florida of like once you actually win something, it's hard to get. Oh, we had a long talk about this. So Billy also worked with a guy named Trevor Moad, who was a mental coach who worked with a bunch of different teams in various sports, college football, the NBA. And so he worked with Trevor.

I ended up writing Trevor's two books. And so Billy and Trevor and I had to talk about Billy's situation for the second book, which is called Getting Neutral. and I knew this story because I had covered the team at Florida when Billy was there and when he won the two national titles. So I had covered the entire season for that second national title. So I knew exactly what had happened. But I didn't until later know how that it affected Billy. And it was a great conversation where he was explaining to me that he actually felt empty after winning the first national title because he's still a very young guy.

I want to say it was 38 when he won the first national title. national title. And he wins it. And he's like, oh, my life is now complete. Oh, crap, I'm still alive. I still have a lot of living left to do. What do I do now? And so he went on kind of a vision quest that offseason talking to people who had won national titles before. And Super Bowls. And so he went to NFL coaches, college basketball, college football, and said, what do you do? What do you do afterward? And they all kind of shift, tried to shift him to this process-oriented thinking, like, hey, the outcome can't be the thing, because if the outcome is the thing, you reach the outcome, you have nothing left to live for. You have to embrace the process more than the outcome.

And it was really eye-opening here. And it was interesting because I told Billy, I said, I said, it's the craziest thing. I was the same way. with the idea of getting a Sports Illustrated cover story where I, you know, I work, work, work, work. I get hired by Sports Illustrated when I'm like 29 years old. They're not letting me write features. I'm not getting anywhere near the cover for the first few years. And then I finally write my first cover story in 2012. And I thought, this is it.

I have reached the pinnacle. I have done it. There will never be anything better than this. And he's like, wasn't that great, was it? And I was like, no. I remember I walked past the rack in the airport. I saw it. I was like, well, that's awesome.

And then I'm like, well, now what? Now what do I do? And it's the same thing. Like, you have to just get past that. And so Billy understands that completely now. I mean, this is someone who's much wiser and now has been through the grind of however many NBA seasons. And so personally, I'd love to see him back in college basketball. I think it would be so much fun.

I don't know if that's what he's going to do. The Bulls don't really strike me as a place that allows you to enjoy the process of it. No, because they're always going to make some dumb trade that changes your roster right before the deadline. And you realize, oh, crap, we're another year away or we're another two years away. Where you enjoy the process, not the outcome. Well, the process with the Bulls sucks. Yeah. So I would love to see if he came back to college basketball. I think it would be so much fun. But we'll have to watch and see. It's a star-studded list of names. But, you know, if it's Mark Byington or Grant McCaslin from Texas Tech or Ben McCollum from Iowa, those are really good coaches too. So I think North Carolina is going to land somebody good. I think they're big game hunting right now, though. Transfer Portal opens August, April 7th, the day after the national title game. So keep that in mind.

So they got to get moving here. But it sounds like maybe wait until at least we see what happens on Saturday. Yeah. Oh, man, I can't wait. Ari, we need to welcome our new coworker at On 3. Wilson Alexander has joined our staff as a National College Sports Reporter. And Wilson comes to us from the Advocate in Baton Rouge, where he was the LSUB writer for the last few years. He has been awesome.

And of course, he comes out of the gate. swinging with his first story. The inside story of how LSU reunited with Will Wade, which, by the way, very interesting. I suggest if you're not already subscribed to On 3, now's a great time. You can get that On 3 national subscription if you want to read this story in 1999 for your first year.

And this is a great explanation that it's not going to make NC State fans feel any better about it, but you understand what all the machinations. We talked about a little bit on the show last week, but Wilson is so much deeper inside and explains it so much better than I did. But remember how I said, this had to do with who won the governor's seat in Louisiana

and what happened after that and them replacing Scott Woodward, the athletic director, and the president of LSU leaving and the new president being from McNee's state, this has been in the works for a while. Basically, the people who were politically, in power now in Louisiana,

wanted Will Wade back, and they were working for the past year to make that happen. You saw a Conner Stallions tweeted, right? I did. If he can do it, I can do it. If Will Wade can go back to LSU, then why can't Conor Stallions go back to Michigan? Maybe.

Maybe. The difference is I'm not sure Michigan wants him back. LSU wanted Will Wade back bad. Yeah, that's the main difference. Yeah. Justin Ganey, Rick Barnes' top assistant at Tennessee, is expected to be hired as NC State's next coach. He is an NC State alum, and I think that was important.

Now, we go back and forth on whether it matters if you're an alum. I think after you just got oaky doked by a guy who was only there for a year, hiring the person who has some sentimental ties to the school might be. Yeah. Might be something you want to think about. I don't know. And here's the thing. It's not it's not like it's a charity hire. Ganey was considered one of the up-and-coming assistants in college basketball. He was going to get a head coaching job, either this cycle or next. This is not a shocker or not a surprise. This is. There's a difference. I think like it might not. I think that the discussion that we had about hiring an alum, does that have any impact on competitive outputs. I don't know that it does, but I think from an emotional standpoint, this makes sense. And it makes a difference. Well, good luck to Justin Ganey. I think he's going to be viewed as a conquering hero there.

And if he can take his alma mater to some heights that they haven't seen in a little while, I think they will be very, very happy. Speaking of heights that haven't been seen in a little while, our Chris Lowe was in Austin, met up with Texas coach Steve Sarkesian. Very interesting quotes from Steve Sarkesian about the Texas. Texas Longhorns. This is different. That's a quote from Steve Sarkesian,

and it's essentially him saying how much deeper Texas is this year than any other year he's been there, and it's not just the top line talent. He's had, because they've had some situations where some key players have not been able to participate in spring

or have been limited because of injuries, including Arch Manning. And they feel like the guys behind them can play too. You know, Trevor Goosby, their left tackle has been limited. So they've gotten to see what the guys behind him look like. And Steve Sarkeesian seems extremely confident. He says it's the engagement and the competitive spirit on both sides that jumps out. I'll never forget those years at Alabama with Jerry, Judy, Jalen Waddle, and Devante Smith. And those guys could be assholes in the way they went at the defensive guys, but they respected Pat Sertan. They respected Xavier McKinney. There was a lot of that. But at the end of the day, they walked out the field together. That's what it feels. like here. Those are not things that Steve Sarkesian says lightly. Yeah, you believe that, right?

I believe that. I do. I don't think he's making that up. I don't think he's blowing sunshine. And I've seen a lot of, well, he said that before. He's not said that before. I can assure you he has not said that during his tenure at Texas. Nothing like that.

I mean, I just translate that as we have the squad to win it all now. Exactly. Now, I also think he said something else really interesting in this story. And again, if you're not already subscribed to On 3, now is the time. Get that national subscription. You can read this Chris Lowe story. There's some incredible stuff from the Texas players in here as well. But I want you to hear these two quotes are these villains that really jumped out at me

because I don't think this is Steve Sarkesian making excuses. I think this is Steve Sarkesian explaining how the world works now. Because I think he understands he is under. intense pressure to make the playoff with this team, intense pressure to not just make it, but go deep in the playoff with this team. So he says, but you've got to pay a lot of money just to get in the game.

So the teams that have a chance to win it, and I don't know what that number ends up being, call it 25, but everybody's in that game. And if you say you're not, then you're not being truthful. And so what he's talking about is, he says everybody wants to point at five or six schools. He bets there are 25 schools paying a ton of money

that are paying the price of admission to compete for the national title. And obviously Texas is one of those. But this is what we keep saying. Everybody thinks, oh, there's one school that's just paying more than the others, whether it's Oregon or Texas. Well, read the second. Because Indiana won last year by the time Indiana was when he's like, oh, Mark Cuban is just paying for everything.

No, it's not. There are a bunch of schools that are paying the price of admission. You still have to evaluate it and coach it. to win. Yeah, put the quote back up. I think the second half of the quote's really interesting. Yes, there are no Dodgers. There's nobody in college football that are the Dodgers. We're not the Dodgers. You've still got to make decisions, the right decisions on players, because at the end of the day, none of us want us to sit here and say that was dead money that we committed a lot of money to this guy and he can't play for us or that he's not a great person

or that he's a cancer in the locker room or he doesn't have the right work ethic or he doesn't have the right toughness to play. And what he's saying is there are no sure things like Shohei Otani. Nobody wants dead. He's also saying that there's nobody that is outspending everybody else by that much. Right. Because of that, because you could have dead money. You could waste all that money. And I think Steve Harkesian in a roundabout way said that there was a ton of dead money on Texas's roster last year. Because he called last year's team Clicky. He said last, it's all in Chris's story. He said, he said last year's team, they didn't really start doing the things. things that set the culture until after spring practice because there was a spring transfer

portal. They didn't feel like the roster was set until after spring practice this year because there is no spring transfer portal. They said, okay, we're going to start this stuff in January. And he feels like he's done a better job managing that than he did last year. Yeah, and I think that part, Andy, of knocking on the door too is getting close and then doing self-evaluation for why you didn't break through the door so that when you knock on it again, the next time you're a more refined product. that's the other part of it too. It's not just knocking on the door and getting lucky and finally getting through or having nine cracks at it, you're finally going to make contact once. I think that when you strike out, you go back to the drawing board, evaluate what is wrong with your process and you refine those things so that the next time you're in that in that position or you are on the verge of doing something big. You did something in January, February, March, and April with your team, whether it be an individual player or the or the, you know, the vibes in the locker room. whatever it may be that you find was deficient, you know, shore that up and then you're better.

So like I think that that's part of it too. So like I trust that Steve Sarkeesian is just like everybody else and learning, you know, as things go and figuring out how to fine tune the things that are misfiring. And I honestly, I read this story and I thought this before the story, but I read it after. It's like I don't know how they're not the favorite to win the national title heading into 2026. And I, I, honestly, I know that people will roll their eyes and say this is just more Texas offseason bullshit and overhype and all that. It's not, man. They're going to be really good.

But here's the thing. If they're nine and three again, there's going to be hell to pay. Sure. This is not going to be taken lightly if he doesn't take this team to where it needs to go. I think that the opportunity is. By the way, I'm looking at BEDMGM right now. Ohio State is the favorite to win the national title at plus 600. Texas is plus 700 tied with Notre Dame, Oregon,

and then Indiana is at plus 750. So they're right there in terms of favorites to win the national title. It's funny. Texas is a favorite to win the Ohio State game, but it's not a favorite to win the title. So do with that what you may. Which is interesting because normally I'd say that Texas' conference schedule probably rougher than Ohio states,

but they're both pretty rough this year. So this is probably is the venue. I wonder if you flipped them and Texas had to play at Ohio State this year, would Ohio State be a slight favorite and then same thing. Yeah, but I think it's interesting math because if Texas is favored to win the game

then they're favored to have a really big piece on the resume that would make them more likely to win it. But either way, they're more likely to make the playoff, yeah. Yeah. So I think there's a lot of pressure run Steve Sarkesian this year? Sure. This is not James Franklin

going into last year at Penn State or Brian Kelly going to LSU or you know, going to last year at LSU because Steve Sarkesian's got more proof of concept, I think, in a shorter amount of time. But he's got to

make this payoff. Yeah. He has to make this a best pay off. Steve Sarkesian is probably what James Franklin was, no, probably even more advanced in year five. Like you got to remember, James Franklin was five or six years further along into his tenure. And they never, I mean, it wasn't until. James Franklin was Penn State's coach for six years before Steve Sarkisian got hired to Texas. Yeah.

And I think James Franklin did a lot of the same things institutionally at Penn State that Steve Sarkesian has done at Texas, which is take a place. that is proud and isn't accomplishing what it should be doing and then putting it into a place of consistency. But Penn State, even in the first six years of James Franklin, when Bruce Feldman was putting him in his top five of coaches in college football, and maybe rightfully so. Because Franklin, I think now as easy it was to criticize that Penn State now, but it's probably underappreciated nationally for what he did there. But James Franklin never got Penn State to the heights that Texas has already reached under Cefsark. So like, I mean, they made the semis the same season. But Texas had a little bit more than that.

No, I'm saying through the first six years of his tenure while stabilizing it. Like Steve's right, right, right, right. And, you know, and been in really big moments that Penn State, frankly, wasn't in. Penn State's moments back then were in the regular season. So, but either way, like, I still think that Steve Sarkeesian, he is so far from any hot seat discussion. I mean, even if they go around and three this year, I don't even think that's, that's, but no, But it would get – Yeah, it would get uncomfortable if they don't make the playoff.

But this is him acknowledging, you've made the investment in my program. I accept that. I accept that challenge. That is what this is. That's what he's saying here. And also telling investors that there's good early returns, which I think is important, too, because people like to hear that stuff when they invest their money. Yeah.

Well, they should expect big returns from this team. I mean, we were owing and eyeing over the Cam Coleman stuff last week. We. Yeah, it was me too. It wasn't just you. I'm drooling over Cam Coleman. I know I'm all in, dude. You know I'm all in on the horns.

I do. You wrap your arms around teams early. I tend to be a little bit later on. It's going to happen eventually. Like, they will win the title eventually. It's hard to win a title. Ask John Shire. that face that's been floating around the internet of John Shire.

Have you seen the super cut that CBS made where they synced up what was going on in the court with the ISO cam of John Shire? Oh my. Like when, when Caden Boozer throws the pass or attempts to throw the pass and Demery deflects it, oh my. They just don't. I mean, like the thing that is it's really interesting to make fun of his facial expressions. That probably was the worst night of his.

life. Yes, since the Houston game. Yeah. So, look, it's hard to win a national title. Keep knocking on the door, you're going to win one. So if they're knocking on the door. Ari, we've got to talk about one more thing. My professional dance career is now over.

Oh, yeah. We'll never say, I don't think it's over. It's on pause. Oh, it's over. It's over. It happened. It was the best two minutes of my life, and it's over. The dance happened Saturday night. I did fine until the very end.

So the very end, there's a kickline. And it's me and my partner, Bia. And then on either side of me, there are five dancing girls, like the Rockettes, essentially. And it's my daughter and her crew from the dance studio. and there's a kick line at the end. Oh, there's me doing the fish. That's a good lift for me.

The shoes, too. I had to wear jazz shoes, buddy. You didn't want me slipping all over that floor. No, I know. You look great. So the kick line, I have dreamed my entire life of a Broadway number breaking out behind me and having a kick line. I missed my first two kicks of the eight kicks in the kick line.

And when I missed the first one, I knew I had to miss the second one to get sink back up. And it just killed me. It was devastating. So did you sink back up? I sunk back up. You choke or what happened? Yeah, I got out of time. So what happens is I do a lift. I do that fish lift. I turn around. We take eight steps back. We turn toward each other, be as straightens my bow tie. My daughter puts my top hat back on my head. And then I turn and we start. the kick line i turned i stepped with my left foot when i was supposed to step with my right and then kick so i had i had to do a little double step to get back into sync

ah it was it was there it was right there for me are you right there for me perfect but this is the dancing of the star situation and i'm proud of you and i hope that oh you really we didn't even talk about the best part of the night i know let's get to it well the bet the best part of the night is so one of our friends at my table i get done immediately hands hands me a beer immediately. There were more beers. I went home that night with Patrick Swayze's jeans. It was a silent auction item.

One of the judges, in fact, the judge who praised my lifts was Patrick Swayze's widow, Lisa. And she had donated for the silent auction, this pair of jeans. My wife, huge fan of dirty dancing, huge fan of ghost, huge fan of Patrick Swayze in general, is like, we got to have those jeans. And I thought she was kidding. But then we get to the auction. And the picture that Lisa has provided to show Patrick wearing the jeans is from the set of Roadhouse. These jeans are jeans he wore while Roundhouse kicking people in Roadhouse at the double deuce.

And so my wife, who I think was joking about how bad she wanted those jeans, Once I saw that, I'm like, we're getting the jeans. We're winning the jeans. Money is no object. We are winning the jeans. Yeah. Money's fleeting. It comes back.

Yeah. So you got the means. Now, the question that has to be asked. There's a lot of questions, maybe some for off the year. Did you put the jeans on? I can't. Are they too small? Patrick Swayze was a 31 waist.

There's no shot. So what do we do with the jeans? My wife can wear him. Has she put them on? Yes, she has. There are logical reporting follow-ups here that could take place. You shouldn't ask any of them. We're not going to ask any of them.

I think she will probably design an outfit around them and wear them at some point. She should. Or I don't know. She plans to tight roll them as was popular in the era. You know, if you took them to a framing store, you could do some really cool stuff with them, my bet. Now, they're big. You could fold them, but like you could do it like a. Really not that big.

Again, Patrick Swayze, not a huge guy. I know, but I'm just thinking from a frame aspect, if you put the picture from Roadhouse in there and then, like, hold them in a way to, like, make them in the frame, like that would be like a collector's item type, cool thing that you could hang in your house or in your office somewhere. Or you could just keep having your wife wear them. I don't know if there's any benefits to that.

There are jeans now, so. Oh, in one wholesome question. Yes. Somebody who had a wonderful weekend with his, daughter. Was she proud of you? She was proud of me and I was of course very proud of her. She was awesome. She's really good at dancing. Her dad is not, but she is fortunately. Yeah. That outfit though, that's a, that's a, that's a lady killer outfit you had on and I'm proud of you for white tie and tails. The song is the Tony Bennett song,

Top Hat, White Tye and Tails. Okay. So it is and I don't like how people ever wore those tail coats anywhere. I think those tails are everywhere. They're just, they're in the way. I don't know how anybody did that. You look great. I never saw the video. I wear the top hat more often.

But you, you crushed it. I'm proud of you. Yeah, top hat suits me. So me and Abraham Lincoln, that's our, that's our style. Monagel. Yeah. I'm going to go look at Patrick Swede. these jeans now. So we will be back tomorrow. More shows. Thank you for joining us. And of course,

make your plan Saturday. We'll see you in Indianapolis at the Culver's Game Day Hub. I cannot wait. We'll talk to tomorrow.