Andy & Ari On3 - USC’s Lincoln Riley or LSU’s Lane Kiffin? Which coach has had the better career? Georgia Tech HC Brent Key Joins | Drafting the BEST College Football Rivalries

Episode Date: May 15, 2026

In today's Dear Andy & Ari mailbag show, Andy saw a phenomenal question to Steve Mendal, our friend at The Athletic. The question was so fascinating, Andy & Ari also discussed the topic: Which coach has had the better career - Lane Kiffin or Lincoln Riley? Watch here as Andy & Ari dive into this fascinating discussion between two of the more notable head coaches across the sport. Who's your pick? Kiffin or Riley?   (0:00) On Today's Episode (1:06) Presenting Sponsor (2:27) Intro: Dear Andy & Ari (3:55) Lane Kiffin or Lincoln Riley? (15:05) Pictures of Kiffin, per Juice (20:30) Thoughts on the 24-Team CFP, from an Iowa fan (26:56) The "Right size" CFP argument (32:38) Previewing Brent Key joining the show (33:16) Brent Key Joins (50:50) Closing out with Brent Key (53:53) Discussing Georgia Tech (55:57) Drafting top rivalries (56:44) Rivalries: Round 1 (1:05:00) Rivalries: Round 2 (1:11:32) Rivalries: Round 3 (1:16:00) Rivalries: Round 4 (1:21:07) Rivalries: Round 5 (1:25:14) Who did we miss? (1:28:39) Full List (1:29:14) Conclusion - Enjoy your weekend!   Our show is also presented by BetMGM!   If you haven’t signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code CFB and you will get up to a $1500 First Bet Offer on your first wager with BetMGM! Here’s how it works:   1. Download the BetMGM app and sign-up using bonus code CFB. 2. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game. 3. You will receive up to $1500 in bonus bets if your bet loses! Just make sure you use bonus code CFB when you sign up!   Make this college football season one for the history books. Make it legendary.   See BetMGM.com for Terms. 21+ only. This promotional offer is not available in DC, Mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET (Available in the US) . 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), 1-800-327-5050 (MA), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR). First Bet Offer for new customers only (if applicable). Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel   Watch our show on YouTube! https://youtu.be/CEDnM-c0fbk Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari Wasserman Producer: River Bailey   Interested in partnering with the show? Email [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On today is Andy Narion 3 presented by BetMGM is a dear Andy and dear Ari show. And we got questions. One that we swiped from a friend of ours because it was just so fascinating. Who has had the better coaching career? Lincoln Riley or Lane Kiffin? Also, is the 2014 playoff an attempt to head off a Super League? Plus, I get to ask a question that I have always wanted to ask. We sit down with Georgia Tech head coach,

former offensive line coach, former offensive linemen for the Yellow Jackets, and I ask him, what is his favorite kind of block? Plus, he gets in-depth on the changes at Georgia Tech this off season and what they're expecting from this season. Plus, it is the college football rivalry draft. Me, Ari, and Producer River,

pick our favorite rivalries. Lots of surprises coming here. Lots of controversy. All on today's Andy Darion 3 presented by BetMGM. We are presented by BetMGM. All the lines and totals you hear on this here show come from BetMGM. If you're not already signed up, download the app. Sign up using the code CFB.

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Casino and Hotel. Welcome to Annie and Ari on 3 presented by Bet MGM. It is a dear Andy, dear Ari show. Your questions answered, but Ari, this is the first time we've ever done this. I took a question out of somebody else's mailbag. I reached over and just swiped it.

Just stole it. What's he going to do? What's Stewart going to do? Exactly. Well, look, I love Stuart Mandel's mailbag in the athletic. It's one of my favorite columns to read each week. and I got to say his readers do a really good job. I think our listeners and viewers do a better job on the whole.

But I got to say, his reader, Cedric brought it this week with a question. I read it and I just smiled and I was like, this is a show topic. This is one of those perfect Friday debates. It's the offseason. It's Friday. It might be the whole show. Yeah. It's just like it's going to spawn so many hot takes.

and it's perfect for you, Ari, because it is so feelings over facts. Yeah. So here's a thing. Before you even ask the question, can I just tell you? I don't think I know. Well, it's the way the question is phrased that makes it great, because there's a different way to phrase it where the answer is really easy. Okay, go ahead.

Let's get into it. But that's not the way Cedric phrased it. So this is from Stuart Mandel's mailbag at the athletic. Cedric's question, in your opinion, who has had the better coaching career? Lane Kiffin or Lincoln Riley. Both are considered offensive geniuses, both made controversial coaching moves, and both face high expectations. Oh, this is a good question.

So I'm Mr. Prisoner of the Moment. Correct. Yes. I'm going to try really hard to break through that and think about the entire careers in the totality. Right. And that is the difference. That's why this question is so good, because if we just said, if you're a five-star player, who would you rather play for?

for right now, it's probably going to be Lane Kiffin. Yeah, that's not going to say. Although, although, although who had the number one recruiting classes in the class of 26, Lincoln Riley. I also don't know that I would pick Lane Kiff and F.R. a five-star quarterback. Quarterback is different, but everywhere else. Okay, so let's just do like our little pros and cons list together. And then then we'll get a joke. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah.

Lane Kiffin has been fired and had to go. back to the G5 to like rebuild his career. That has not happened to Lane Kiffin yet. Lane Kiffin has been fired twice as a head coach, once with the Oakland Raiders. What should you have a debate because he's the NFL count? Are you going to consider that? I don't know. He sent Sebastian Janikowski out for like a 76 yard field goal at one point. That guy did have an iron leg dude. I don't know. Like the hiring a 33 year old or 34 I I can't remember exactly how old Lane was when he got hired to coach the Raiders.

Pretty crazy in general. So yeah, I don't know that I put that out on Lane. I probably put that more on Al Davis. But he also left Tennessee after a year. Like his early coaching career as a head coach very different than Lincoln Riley, who takes over his Oklahoma's head coach and immediately find success. Like takes over his Oklahoma's head coach in 2017. They win the Big 12.

They go to the play out. They play that classic Rose Bowl against Georgia. Baker Mayfield wins the Heisman Trophy. You name it. Lane Kiffin already failed at the job that Lincoln Riley is currently in, which makes this difficult. I don't know if I'm going to consider. But when you fail in it now, I don't think he would.

Yeah. This is hard, dude. So let me start some ground rules here. What do you think is more impressive? Because Lane Kiffin should get credit for making a playoff team, right? Can we, does he, can he get credit? Yes, I will give him credit for making a playoff, but I will not get him credit for Ole Miss getting to the semis.

Yes. Because he didn't coach them. So he gets about as much credit as a first round exit from the playoff. Is that a fair compromise? Yes. Lincoln Riley has yet to make the playoff. Not true. Lincoln Riley has made a playoff multiple times, a 14-playoff, in fact.

at USC is what I meant. But he has made it multiple times. It hasn't won a game yet, though. If I remembering that correctly? Correct. You are correct. Yeah. Yep.

Between the Heismans and between the playoff appearances during a time in which it was harder to make it, my gut feeling in the moment is that Lincoln Riley has had a more successful coaching career. That said, 10 years is a long time. Well, I'm going to make you the AD of Big State U. Lane Kiffin.

Exactly. No question. Whoever you want. That's not what they ask. If the question was, exactly, exactly. The brighter future, I would go with Lane Kiffin. Because Lane Kiffin has already illustrated an ability to exist at a high level in the modern game.

Now, Lincoln Riley might be able to prove it. as soon as this year, he can do it. At this point, as we're answering this question in mid-May, Lincoln Riley only made the playoff in the old era. Lincoln Riley also only took over at that program that was one of the best programs in the country from one of the most legendary coaches of all time. And I think he advanced it from an offensive standpoint,

but it's not like he built Oklahoma from the rubble. And Oklahoma also regressed defensively while he was there. Ole Miss got built from the rubble by Lane Kiffin. You might hate him now and that's fine. You have that's your prerogative. He left. But Lane Kiffin has built a program and made the playoff in the 12-team era when it's supposed to be easier, but it actually might be harder.

Lane Kippen has more success already. Yeah. And that's, it's a trajectory question more than anything else because I think Lincoln Riley has the more, has more concrete achievements. Heisman winners too also are part of that. Heisman winners and playoff appearances. Conference titles. Lane doesn't have any of that.

But Lane may get some of that now. And part of it probably is because of the way Lane had to rebuild his career after getting fired at USC. And Lane would point this out, as we probably should. USC did have all the NCAA stuff. that he walked into after P. Carroll left. So that was part of it that was outside of his control.

Lane Kiffin has yet to win a conference championship as a Power 5 coach. Correct. So in terms of accomplishments that are concrete, there's no question that Lincoln Riley is winning. And by the way, the age thing is interesting because when Lane went to USC, that was essentially the same age as Lincoln was when he got the, actually Lincoln was younger when he got the Oklahoma job. Ling was like 34 when he got the Oklahoma job.

So Lincoln definitely handled the early part of it much better than Lane did. Like Lane needed to grow up some and Lincoln didn't initially. Now I would argue that Lincoln, and we've learned this, needed to evolve and we're going to find out if he has or not. But we know Lane has evolved. But I think we agree that Lincoln Riley is the answer, but Lane Kiffin is the future. Right. Right. So, yeah, if you're placing a future on it, you're picking Lane.

If you're just going based on the resume that exists right now, it's Lincoln Riley. And I also always appreciate the fact that these things change very rapidly. You know, if USC is very good this year, and I think they might have a chance to do it. I know we say that every offseason. but with the players they brought in, the retention of their quarterback. You know, I think that they have a shot to at least be a playoff team this year,

then obviously that changes. Also, maybe one half of football away from making the playoff in his first year at USC, if that half goes a little bit differently, if Caleb Williams doesn't get hurt, might be $1,000 richer. If USC can tackle anybody from Utah at all? Which is, I mean, it's his fault they didn't make it.

I'm not saying that, that, like, it was only- They lost twice to Utah that season because they couldn't tackle anybody. But they were 30 minutes of football away from- Yes, you're correct. Yeah, but I think that, like, as complicated as it is because it's intertwined, and their careers have also intertwined at, like, the same stops. I don't know what, at least one same stop. It's just, like, a fascinating thing to consider.

But, like, if you're having a debate about who was accomplished more and the accomplishments are concrete, like, I don't really know if it's, it's just a factual answer. Right. But what makes it so weird is if we were doing this question five years from now, I think both of us would say it's going to be Lane Kiffin. But yeah, but that's how it works, Andy.

How many current head coaches in college football would you take before Davos-Sweeney? Like the guy won two national titles. Right, exactly. I mean, that's just how it goes. You know, things change. And that's the thing. And that's the critical thing now is you got to figure out who can win in this era. And it's a different skill set.

Lincoln Riley's got to prove he's got the right skill set. But I think it. I do think that it is at least fair to bring up at the moment. And I'm like 99% sure that Lane Kiffin listens to the show. And I think he would probably agree. He has yet to win at the highest of high levels as a coach. Now, you can say that maybe last year in the Georgia win from two years ago that you and I were at in Oxford. Yeah, I think that Georgia win in 2023.

was a watershed moment, but the problem with that, or excuse me, 2024, the problem with that is that they have an open date after that and they go lose at Florida and it knocks them out of the playoff. Like that season was sort of the example of the issue where you're not quite there yet because you lose to Kentucky and you lose to Florida and there's no excuse for that. He just has yet to win on the world stage. And maybe that, obviously, he would have won games this past year had he stayed. and I was amused by the Wilson-Alexander quote

that he got from Lane Kippen this week that we ran on three about how he goes maybe we would have won it all and of course every coach would think that right maybe they would have won it all. I don't know if I think they would have, but it would have been cool to see him. Or maybe they needed Pete Golding to get him past Georgia last year because Lane Kiffin against Georgia and lost.

But of course Lane Kiffin thinks that every coach would think that. I would think that I would think our podcast is better if I'm on it. Like, of course, because it's me. but and he has broken college football in a way that no one else has broken it from a drama standpoint he is amassed the amount of I don't know like has anybody invested more money in an individual season than LSU is about to invest in the next season and they're all doing it for somebody who has never won a playoff game or a power conference championship that's not to say that he can't but he has not done it yet and it's

Oh, it is a big bet. Yeah. I don't think we fully appreciate the size of the bet. Staff, it's a huge bet. NIL, the amount of money it took to lure them there. It's a $65 million bet if I had to guess without doing the math.

Now USC is making, I would say, a similar size bet. They just made part of the bet in 2022. Mm-hmm. because they're doing the same thing with their roster this year. And they're losing the bed right now, by the way. They're down and halftime.

Well, I'm saying U.S. has lost their bet on Lincoln, Lincoln, Riley, so far. Oh, by the way, did you see the pictures of Lane Kiffin fishing with his son yet hit the Twitter yesterday? His shirt was off. That dude is jacked. Like, I don't know what he's doing, but like he is.

Yeah, he's sorry to interrupt. Yeah. We're talking about jacked men. Shut up. He posted this from the way. He's hiding it well. He posted that from the Jews Kiffin account, didn't he? Like the dog account?

I don't know who posts. I don't know who controls the Jews Kiffin account. I don't either. So I mean, hot yoga's the answer to this. And so we do know one of the hot yoga instructors from Baton Rouge. I think Lane's been in her class a few times. Have you done? done hot yoga? What's the, what's the, yeah, I've done hot yoga. Like, I woke up at five in the

morning. Sorry, 4.41 a.m. today to work out at 5 a.m. I've been doing this. Grudin. Oh, I'm actually, I'm going to be sexy by the time the football season starts, and then I'm going to gain it all back when I'm on the road with you. But I lifted, I did a high intensity interval training this morning. A little hit action. A little hit action. And it was very hard. But like, should I go sweat in a hot sauna while doing yoga to like get sculpted? That's insane. It's not a sauna. It's not that hot.

120 degrees in the room or some crazy shit like that. You should mix. They do raise the temperature. That's the point. You sweat. But it's not like a sauna. It is a good compliment to the hit training you're doing because the yoga will allow you to be more flexible. My wife said that she thinks that I would be incapable of completing that workout.

Like I don't want to go to work. You would at first. But then you get used to it. I don't even know what it. is like it's just weird body movements that you hold it's uh it's sun salutations vinyasa little explain it to me like i'm upward dog downward dog little chataranga pushups explain it to me like i'm four please i mean i'm gonna have to to film it i think like do you want me to turn the camera on myself and do some upward dog downward dog is it hard to do because it's hot in the

room or is it hard triangle pose right angle pose it's hard because it's hardly hard to us to do? Yes. Like, you are getting a strength workout while doing these poses. Okay. The fact that it's hot makes it harder. So you have sweat dripping down your face. But it's still hard if you do it at room temperature.

I bet you probably think you feel like a snack when you walk out of the room, don't you? You're all dripping wet. I don't do yoga nearly enough as I should. I should do yoga more often because I am very not flexible. I am wound tight as a drum and it's bad for you. Okay. Especially as an old person.

Tubby's trying to get to get summer fit here. Maybe I should give it a shot. I'm for it. I will take a hot yoga class with you. I just don't, the thing that I don't, I know I just derailed the show. I'm sorry,

but like I don't want to show up to a class, pay 60 bucks and then be incapable of even participating. Like, I don't want to like go into something that I cannot do. Then try harder. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. It just like,

Is there a beginner class for people who are overweight that are trying to get into it? Yeah, they have levels to it. Okay, yeah. And I'll do the easiest level and we'll go from there. Thanks for a hard. You make the workout your own. Like there are people at varying levels in every class. You will see people that can bend in ways that you will never, ever be able to bend.

And you just have to accept that. I got enough, Lane Kiff, it's one of those people. I'm curious. Maybe we should just Because everybody's done the People have already done the hot yoga with Lane story We don't even need to do the story What about this hot yoga with Ari?

I don't think that would be quite I don't think anybody pay to see that To reticule me Isn't that why you're making me run five miles If Arch doesn't go To the high school? I'm doing that for you to get yourself in shape. Yeah.

Do you think that Lane Kiffin uses a tanning bed or do you think that's a natural tan? I have no idea. It's a very, he's got a very attractive upper body. It's a compliment. I would like it. We can ask him. We'll have him on the show and we'll ask him only tanning and hot yoga questions. Literally all I'm interested in. No pesky questions about the exit from Ole Miss. Don't you worry about that.

We'll just, we'll just leave it at all at this point. Like, you know, Lane Kiffin, back to football is at the point to where he should just stop talking about it. Like, it's over. nothing you're going to say or do is going to change anyone's mind. Just be the villain. And he's asking him about it. I know.

I know. I'm not saying. This is where we're at fault somewhat too. I know, but like I think I'm completely satisfied with what Lane Kiffin thinks why he did it and how. Yeah, I know I know why he says he left. I know why Ole Miss says he left.

I know why he left because he thought LSU was a better job. This isn't D.B. Cooper here, guys. We don't have to over there. That's it. That's it. That's it. All right. Next question.

This is more of a statement than a question. It's from Matt, who was answering a call I made on the show the other day. Because I was asking, as we were talking about the idea of a 2014 playoff, fans of teams that would have gotten in or would get in if it's 24, but haven't been able to get in at 4 or 12. Let's hear the statement. Does it matter to you? How do you feel about this? Because I don't know the answer.

And I don't know that Matt is representative of the entire fan base for his school, but I am glad he wrote in, and I think it's a very intelligent comment here. Hi, And I Naniari, just wanted to weigh in here as an Iowa alum and lifelong fan that I hate the 2014 idea. Yes, Iowa would be in the playoffs a lot of years, but even this past season is a great example of why playoff field limitations are not what has kept Iowa out of the playoffs. Iowa had real opportunities to win all four of their losses last season, including driving into Indiana territory with under seven minutes to go in a 13-13 game and, of course, leading against Oregon until the final seconds. Those high-leverage games are what I remember most from last season and getting into the playoffs despite losing all four of those games

would not have excited in nearly the same way that earning the way into the 12-team field would. So, Ari, this is good news. This is somebody who feels the way you feel, even though it doesn't necessarily benefit their team. But I think Matt's right. I mean, we said it last year. This is a good Iowa team. Was it a great Iowa team?

No, because if it was, they would have won one or two of those games. I also don't think that the expanded playoff is going to provide more fulfillment for teams that are good, not great. Like, how much different do you think an Iowa fan would feel right now if they made a 2014, last year's team made a 24th?

team playoff and then lost their first game or advanced by playing another mediocre team and then got their doors blown off by a really good team. Like is like, is the fulfillment factor really there? Well, what if they, what if they didn't get their doors blown off? And I'll give you a little basketball example involving Iowa. Iowa's a nine seed this year. So they win the first game. Then they beat number one seed Florida in the second round. So if you make it and then you win a game or you make it and you win two games, then yes, you're going to consider that a very fulfilling season. If you make it and get your doors blown off in games.

They're not winning two games. That's the problem. They're not doing it. And we have to stop pretending like they are. Ari, they were in games against Indiana and Oregon. I don't know. They could win two games in the playoff.

They beat Vanderbilt, which would have been in the playoff. It would have been a comparable team. Like the Vanderbilt team they beat in the bowl game would have been similar to their first round opponent. I actually think I would have to play a play. because everybody playing in the first round is usually very similar. Yeah.

But they would have won the game. Like if they played Vandy in the playoff, they would have won in the game. They would have played Indiana and they would have gotten their doors blown off. They played Indiana last year. They didn't get the doors blown off. And I'm not going to, I'm also not like, I hope you see this. But playing in an indoor facility or playing in a playoff setting provides a different

level of play that does some not happen. Okay, but they play in a game. You can't just assume they would get their doors blown off. They played each other and it was a close game. Yeah. I mean, you're making a case for it. So if that's how you feel, I am not going to make the case for it. I just don't want you to, I'm not going to let you go unchecked by saying something that.

That's true. Monstrably untrue. Like, Iowa would gotten crushed by Indian and play. We don't know that because the one time they actually. played in the 2025 season. Where did Iowa even finish in the actual final rankings? Do you know that off top hand? They were to have been the last team in or the next last team in.

It was like 23 and the 20s? Okay. Yeah, I thought that Iowa was actually a higher quality team than where they finished ranked wise. But like they were the, they were the highest rated, I think, of the four lost teams because they'd gotten beat by like every game they'd lost. had been a close game to a really good team. Yeah, I just don't like, yeah.

I just don't think that like the sales pitch is, look what they did in the tournament. No, I think I think Matt's right. I think Matt's right on this one. But, all right, in the final, final CFP rankings there are 23. Yeah, I actually thought they were ranked higher. Yeah. But I don't think that whether or not Iowa was a good example,

I will say this. I don't think that teams ranked 23rd, 22nd, 19th will feel more personal fulfillment about their season if they go to the playoff and losing their first or second game. Is that a fair? I think it's fair. And I think they might the first time around, but not. Yeah, because it will be new, but it's not after that. Because you look at it, like, you lose in the basketball tournament. Now, yes, Iowa basketball this year because they beat Florida in the second round.

But that would be like upsetting the one scene in the football tournament. everybody would think that's a good good season. Andy, I got curious last night. I don't know if you saw this on my Twitter feed, but because 24 seems imminent now, and we were discussing what we thought the percentages would be of fans who would want it and who wouldn't,

I just did another pool. And it's unscientific, and I'm not as big of an account as on three, but I got about 700 votes. You know what the percentages are? Here are the options. Stay at 12, expand to 16, expand to 24. How many, it doesn't matter what the other

two are what do you think is the percentage of people out of the 700 that picked expand to 24 10 15 14.8 which is where exactly where we thought it would be so you know some people have expand to 16 some people have stay at 12 that's 85 I think there's quite a few expand to 16s out there because that you know I think the SEC fans want want the four more spots I actually think that expanding to 16 is like I hated it at first but I'm just like please let's just go there like I just anything for me for. All right. So here's Marilyn. Marilyn reached out on Instagram and asked this. Is the right size argument of the college football playoffs serving as a distraction from the existential threat of conference reduction? Most fans, not tied by a legacy of blue blood, are by far more investing the idea of having a chance than we are in whether a tournament has, quote, great games or results in a, quote, true champion.

We are more fans of our schools or tribes than we are the quote-unquote game of football. Those telling us otherwise are condescending. If short-term greed wins out, the Big Ten of the SEC are all this left to play for it all, the nationwide love of the sport will atrophy to that of a regional affair. Maybe the establishment of a 24-team CFP could make it a little bit harder to break into a smaller 36 or 64-team super league. It's an interesting thought. It's an interesting, and it's probably, look, it is why. the group of six conferences want this,

or one of the reasons why. Do you think those two things, there's a nexus between those two things? Do you think if there's a 2014 playoff, it's harder to make a Super League? I don't think so. I think there's probably a few people thinking that that are in the ACC in the Big 12. It feels like it could be true.

I don't think so because it is, and this is only my cynicism from having covered this sport for a long time. Never assume anybody's in charge. or that there's a master plan because there's not. These guys are flying by the seat of their pants the entire way. They're making everything up as they go along. So to think there's a master plan of if we do this, it'll keep them from eventually doing this other thing.

No, no, no. Like the second that Duke basketball Amazon deal came down, schools were like, wait a second. And I'm telling you, if you ever get Michigan and Ohio State seriously considering the wait a second part of it, then you have a problem. Because the Michigan Ohio State game pays them or pays the Big Ten almost what it pays Michigan and Ohio State for the year. And that's one game.

So if they ever figure that out and they know it. And they will. ever really want to do something about it. And Michigan and Ohio State are like, hey, let's call Alabama and Georgia. Why are we doing all this? We could make so much more. Then it's the game's up. It's over.

It doesn't matter what size the playoff is or anything else. I also hope that your idea of if it goes to 24 and then they create a super league that they'll still keep 24 is wrong. I hope you're wrong about that. You're the one who taught me this. Once you get it a certain size, it ain't going back. I know, but if you start a new league, then you start from scratch, hopefully. Don't. You're giving these people way too much credit.

I'm just saying, like, if you, like, leave and start your own leave. I thought Maryland's question was great and very well thought out and very smart. And I think the point of we're more fans of our schools than we are of the game of football is exactly right, but don't assume anybody's in charge. Never assume there's a master plan because there really isn't. You know, I was like perusing through the internet yesterday and I saw a column from our Notre Dame site. Jack Sobel tweeted this out. Pete Bavakwa came out in favor of the 2014 playoff just six months after publicly supporting the 16D model. He likely believes the former is best for Notre Dame. This might be true, but I believe it's wrong to be,

it's wrong for college football. And it just like struck me because college football is hurt because so many individuals like Pete Pavakwa and conference commissioners and college administrators are all doing their jobs very well because they are operating in the best interest of their conference program. They don't work for college football. They do not work for college football, thus creating a system where there are 27 boats in the water and they're all pulling their cargo in different directions. And like the insinuation that everybody is working together for a brighter future is not what's happening.

PIPA VACWA favors the playoff system that favors Notre Dame. Yeah, and why do NFL owners pull together? Because it benefits. Because they all make more money and they all benefit from it. The system in college is not set up that way. So they're not going to necessarily pull together. Sometimes their incentives will align, very rarely will everyone's incentives align.

And I think that's, but I think Cody we're seeing that pretty much every day we talk about this, though. Texas Tech Oil Tycoon billionaire booster, Cody Campbell's vision for the future in how to fix college sports tries to get some of the boats to go on the right direction. Well, but why does he have that one? Because it saves his favorite team.

Yep. It puts Texas Tech in the club. That's why. So everybody is, everybody in college football has their opinions. and those opinions are formed always through the looking glass of what is best for my favorite institution, or the institution that employs me. Exactly, exactly. All right. Next question comes from me.

This is a question. I'm going to have to start asking this of every former offensive lineman, every former offensive line coach, every head coach who wants coached offensive line. Because I asked this of Brent Key, the Georgia Tech coach, in the first question of this interview you're about to see. It was awesome. It was just awesome. So prepare to get down and dirty,

prepare to get into the weeds, a little X's and O's, because I'm going to ask Brent Key what his favorite block is, and the answer is spectacular. Here is Georgia Tech Coach Brent Key. Join now by Georgia Tech Coach Brent Key, and I will ask the question I promise your sports information director that I was going to ask.

What is your favorite kind of block? and is it different as a player and as when you were coaching O-Line? So he said to ask me this. No, no, no. He said, he did the SID thing. What are you going to ask Brent about? And I was like, I'm going to ask him what his favorite block is.

Did he just text you that? No. No, no, no, no. My favorite block. Probably a double team. Probably a deuce block, the backside backer on a gap scheme. That would be just the, probably the, you know, the technique of the guard

the inside postman. Right. It has to be good. But the, the real block is the, is the drive man. Right. Coming down.

Right. Because ideally you're, you're driving that knee lineman into the backer. Yeah. Because like the, you know, the inside blocker is really the setup guy. Yeah.

He's the setup guy. You know, he's getting, getting the guy lifted up and all that. Then, you know, as we've kind of evolved over the years of, you know, drop stepping or,

you know, angle drive or to really the gallop now. And I mean, you can really get some momentum and, uh, and not, some kind of asses out now.

It's, it's great, though, because this is what it's coming back. I mean, I did a whole story going to the national title game on Miami running duo out of the pistol. Yeah. Because they made a living on it in the playoff. And their center explained the whole process to me. And, you know, he's a very good postman on those. But it's, I love that the game is kind of getting more compact again. Yeah.

Because it spread out and you had these, you know, 225 pounds. linebackers that used to, you know, when you, when you were an assistant in Alabama, you had Dante Hightower at like 260. So, yeah, I mean, those, those times, like, I think probably, you know, defensively you saw the shift really to more being able to defend the spread offense. Yeah. Yeah. And that was probably, gosh, even back to my UCF days, you know, we played Baylor in 13, I think it was. Oh, yeah. In 13. And, you know, we, we, we shut them out pretty well. And that was, when the book was kind of be written defensively on how to defend those teams. Right. And, you know, the advancement of kind of the mint fronts with the, you know, the odd with the nickel play in, you know, being able to move and stun out of it and people have done so many different things with it. Well, if you're going to create those two big guard bubbles, you know, play in that front. And there's a lot of things you can do to take advantage of it offensively. So it's all cyclical. Yep. You know, my big prediction now moving forward over the next couple of the years is that you're going to see a lot more people, you know, go to the huddle. Yeah. You're going to see a lot more people running tempo out of the huddle. Right.

to defeat the sign stealing and zoom stealing and all that that's been taking place and you know constrict it to get wide get wide to go inside i mean you know use using every bit of the field well that that sugar huddle where you know you've you're radioing in the quarterback and he can call it instantly and then pop around and then yeah snap the ball you know it's to get in the huddle and uh you know go through the play call and all that's one thing in you know normal kind of rhythmic football is is we've known it for years but you know, everybody went to tempo. Well, defensive coaches caught up with that pretty quickly. I mean, they're calling off of formations. They're calling off of different things. And well, now, I mean, to do the same thing out of a huddle or, you know, break a huddle at six seconds to snap the ball. Yeah. There's so many different ways to create tempo in the game.

But, you know, the one thing that's not going to change is the physicality. Yeah. And I think you have to be physical in the way you run the ball, defend the run, and play special teams to be a, and play on the perimeter with the skill guys if you want to have any chance to play late in November. Well, and so this is from kind of my long way of getting to, you guys are having to evolve again. You had kind of a unicorn quarterback in Haynes and, you know, tough, could carry, could run the ball, could throw the ball,

could make you right when maybe the call was wrong. And so you're replacing him. You know, Buster Faulkner goes to Florida. You bring in George Gottzi, who, by the way, I know it wasn't a big runner, but I was chatting with some Georgia Tech folks earlier today and they reminded me I think it was your senior year, his junior year, a read play where he keeps against Georgia.

Yeah, it was a midline option. It was like true old school, under center midline. You know, Ralph Regian was the coordinator then and I mean, he was so far ahead of his time, you know, with multiple personnel groups and being able to be in four wide and come back in and be under center running, you know, midline in, you know, forms of your office. And I remember to this day, I mean, it was a midline read.

And I mean, it was probably because I want to get enough to block the guys across from me. And so we read him. And George took off 33 yards and I got close to catching him by the time he got Venzo. Now, George is not going to be calling much of that for, for Alberta, is he? Who knows? Okay. You know, we wouldn't be multiple with what we do offensively. You know, when I first took over as a head coach, I knew we had to gain advantages in a lot of ways.

We had to gain advantages, you know, with. with the shifts, the motions, when tempo, varying types of tempo, because we're no way we're going to be good enough to win 11-1-on-one matchups, and I don't think anybody is nowadays to win everyone or enough that you have to do in a game. But, you know, I also felt like there's some situations

within the game that we can improve on. And George is one of, not the smartest football coach has ever been around my life. We've known each other forever. I'm really excited to see how we're going to evolve and they continue to adapt. And he's been with the Ravens, and obviously that is a,

a completely different level, but that's a team and a franchise that is prideed itself on being physical, pride of itself on great, their offensive line play has been spectacular. Their tight ends are unbelievable, and that's the position he was coaching. So I'm curious, you know, you talk about nobody can win 11 one-on-one matchups anymore. That maybe wasn't the case five years ago. There were probably three or four programs. You're right. Could. Yeah. How much has that changed for you at Georgia Tech in terms of where you stack up talent-wise? You know, I think it's helped us

evolve in a positive way. Not think I know it has. It's allowed us to, I guess, in layman's terms, play the catch-up game very quickly. Whereas, you know, there were certain recruiting battles. It was hard to be in, you know, four years ago, five years ago.

And now, not only are we in those battles, we're winning those battles, still finding the right guys for us at Georgia Tech, but it's allowed us to change the roster. And I knew going into this offseason, we had to improve ourselves. We had to improve our size overall in the team, especially the line of scrimmage. But we had to improve our defense and our defensive front in particular from a, from a length, a size, a depth. And we made major investments into that position. And we're starting to see it pay off really now at

this point. And then also Justice Haynes coming back to his home state. I know there are people in the rivalry. They go, hey, it's dad, you know, played for the other team. Did he? I was at this game in Knoxville once. Yeah, I was at that game. But Justice, I mean, he seems to fit what you want to do offensively. You know, I'm really impressed with our running back room, you know, from top to bottom. We have guys in there that can, you know, Malachi Hoseley was coming back from last year,

and Trey Maddox, you know, Chad Alexander, who was injured last year. Just a plethora of guys in that room and then some young guys in the room. But, you know, when you have those guys that are multiple also, they can do a lot of different things. And with what George does offensively and with what we've been putting together, being able to put those guys anywhere on the field to create matchups personnel-wise. But Justice is a very unique player. He's a unique kid, young man. You know, probably checks about every box you'd want to as far as the character, intangibles, work ethic, leadership, you know, playing ability, size, speed, all those things. and, you know, you're always kind of, you want to build a complimentary team, right?

Everybody talks about complimentary offense and defense and special teams. Well, it's also complimentary on each side of the ball. Yeah, right? It's no secret. We're going to have a quarterback, start the first game that's never started a college football game. Yeah. Whoever that is. Whoever it is.

And most likely it will be Alberta. Yeah. You know, but that's not, I mean, that's not different than a lot of teams in the country. Right. Right. So you're going to have those every two to three years or whatever it is where you've got a guy. Well, how are you going to compliment him on offense so you don't put all the pressure on him early?

Yeah. You know, you don't want that guy out the gate, you know, Colorado, Tennessee, you know, right out the gate, those games, having to go win it himself right away. Take the pressure off of him. Let's rely on the run game, the intermediate throws, improve ourselves in the passing game, which we had to improve on drastically, just from a situational passing game. All right, and play really good

defense to take that pressure off of Burdo. What did you learn last year? Because I know, I remember you said multiple times since the season ended. You knew some of the early success was a little schedule-based, and you needed to have guys ready for what was to come at the end of the season. And you're still fairly young in your evolution as a head coach. You know, what did you take from that experience?

You know, it's very hard for people in the moment like that within a season, within a, you know, 4-0-5-0-6-0. And it really, I guess, probably after the Clemson game, is when it happened. And as a head coach, you feel it. And you're talking about the things you've got to correct and get better at and improve every week and trying to be that same person. Well, inevitably, people get caught up on the ride.

Right? And, you know, it's impossible to block out the noise. Let's just go ahead and say it. People aren't going to block things out. But they choose what they really pay attention to, right? So, you know, are you going to pay attention to the head coach, to the guy that's, you know, instead. into the whole program or get caught up in everything else.

Right. So at the end of the day, it's on me. I'm the head coach. And, you know, the accountability that comes with that is saying, yeah, it's on me. Yeah. All right. But we've got to do a better job of staying focused on what matters. And, yeah, I mean, I thought we were very comparative and relative to the teams we played early on.

And our schedule got harder as the season went on, more competitive, you know, on the road games, you know, night games on the road. of just the environments, the teams we're playing, and, you know, but also the depth of your team. Yeah, that's a big part, man, is like, you've got to build a team that can still play winning football in competitive football in November. Yeah, late October, November. Those are the games that matter now.

The evolution of college football, right? You know, games one and two, yeah, they're important. They're all important. But those last games of the year are very important. Especially with you guys where you're chasing a chance to play in the conference title game. I mean, you know, it says what analytics are, right? Yeah, I mean, there's people already booking trips and people, you know, people around the entire school talking about playoff games and this and that.

I'm like, we barely just won that game. Especially your league last year. Yeah. The margins were so tight. It was after the Duke game. Yeah. It really started to occur. And I remember I had a team meeting that Monday morning after the Duke game just to try to put people's heads back.

straight. Yeah. It kind of went the other way. Like, well, you know, what's, what's,

what's going on? I mean, why are we acting like this? I mean, well, because we didn't play our best football. Yeah. Right.

You know, if you go back to that game, I mean, we returned to fumble 99 yards. Yeah. You know, we were very, very pedestrian on offense that game.

If we went for Haynes, bailing us out with some runs. I mean, we played a poor offensive football game and had very, and we were opportunistic on defense. Yeah. So you start looking at that ending. You're like,

are we a good team or we get lucky there. Yeah. Well, it's pretty obvious. Like, the ball bounced our way. Right. You know, we got some stops and some situations, but we didn't play a really good football game. And you're going to say that the players, but they're going to hear from everybody. From everybody.

It's coaches too. Yeah. Coaches too. It's like, hey, it's game six. It's game seven. We won. It's just, it's survive and move on. I don't believe that.

Yeah. When I think of, you know, the coaches you grew up under, near Georgia Leary, probably, if he got, if you got, if you. You won in a lucky fashion. I'm sure Sunday, Monday, it is, you're getting blow-torched. Oh, yeah. It was the hardest weeks were the weeks in the games you're supposed to win. Yeah.

And I don't buy into this. Well, people are different now and kids are different. And, you know, people hear different things and social media. Now, winning still takes the same, you know, the same input to get the output that you want. I also still, I think every, because it's funny, is it now that I've got teenagers in my house. People always say, oh, he's this generation. I think every generation has people who can be coached hard, and every generation has people who don't want our coaching.

And it's up to you guys to find the ones that still want to be coached hard. You know, it was, I got a long text from one of my players, from a parent of a player a few weeks ago. And it was one of those texts where you're not going to reply back. You wanted to call them. I called him. And I talked about that. The son's a very, very good player on our football team.

Very good player. and he just was thanking me for coaching him hard. Yeah. For coaching him the way he needs to be coached to continue to develop at this point in his career. And I said, all great players want to be coached. And so many people get that wrong. Yeah. They try to treat him with white gloves and, you know, coddle them through a practice.

And, well, at the end of the day, if a player wants to be great, they want to be told when they're not right. They want to be told how to do it the red way and have a foot on them. And that's how these players are. And I'm very appreciative that we have those types of guys on our team. I was talking to Mani Diaz about this, and he was talking about, you know, the guys you get at Duke, the ones who, you know, made great grades in high school, they tend to be people pleasers. And like, they get devastated when they do something wrong. But, but you still, you still got to get them. And, you know, you've got a lot of that I imagine at Georgia Tech, where you have a pretty demanding curriculum that they've got to deal with. And, you know, it's, they just finished finals last week. Yeah. You know, hopefully grades will come out tomorrow and we'll hopefully go fifth, fifth semester in a row of setting an all-time record. But. I'll have to talk to many about that

Oh yeah Because they are Our entire discussion As a staff Post spring Has been exactly that We have a lot of pleasers They want to do things

The exact right way And you have to be very careful Of that Because you know I tell the staff all the time As coaches we speak with Fort Tongues All right Hey don't overcoach

Be detailed Don't overcoach be detailed Right Hey be detailed in what you do But don't overcoach it Yeah So just thread the needle perfectly.

That is it can't. Exactly, right. So, you know, in what happens with the guys like this who are good kids who want to do everything right, take a, take a corner, for example. Yeah. All right. We're talking about technique. We've got to be better at our technique.

Well, now they're so focused on technique, right. Hey, just let's go back to when we were eight, nine, ten, 11, 12 years old playing ball in the backyard. Yeah. All right. We didn't play these complicated coverages. We didn't play, no, we went up, we got in front of the man. Yep.

All right. And then we played the ball. We didn't worry about our technique. Now, we get better because of that. But sometimes you got to look up and say, okay, the ball's in the air. I got to play the ball. Well, the key is to get them, you know, Monday through Thursday worrying about the technique. And then shut up on Friday.

You're in the backyard. Yeah. Friday, hey, review it, give it to them. Don't overcoach it. And Saturday let them go play. And that's been a goal of ours, really. I saw that happening last year. We go up to NC State and I saw guys playing not to make mistakes.

Yep. Coach is coaching not to make mistakes. seems to be where everything you were worried about, yep, kind of came to fruition. It did. You know, all the things I saw, once it hit and we didn't have that bell out by Haynes or, you know, the kick by Aden or a big play, whatever, all right. Oh, gosh, how are we getting out of this?

And it was, it just, it started, you know, spiraling. And, you know, you learn a lot as a head coach in those things. All right, but I don't think it's, you learn what to do then. You learn, you know, how better to prepare your team. right now yeah next time and and so I just remember the first story I did on you as a head coach you you taking over in the middle of the season and and revamp the punt team yeah during a game week which for those who didn't have not gone through football practice you don't do that you do that in spring practice yeah and they did

they did they had to do it in the game week because they kept getting them blocked and you never got another one blocked did you no we didn't we had four four kicks blocked that that season long first four games and yeah we revamped the entire entire thing Tuesday, from Tuesday, Thursday, or Tuesday, Wednesday, and then Thursday. Ironically enough, you know, the guy who I named Special Needs Coordinator at the time is now Jason Seymour, who's your de coordinator. Yeah. So now they're talking about these new punt rules and everything.

I'm like, huh, a piece of cake. No problem. We've done that in a week. I thought about you when I read the rule change. Yeah, you know, that's one of those that coaches are up in arms about. The fans are like, I don't know what that means. But you were the first person I thought of because I was thinking of that, that what to have been the week from hell, but it worked.

It was. It seems like it was 15 years ago now at this point. But, you know, I still believe that of all the things that we do is head coaches, you know, all the administrative duties we have and, you know, raising money, you know, budgeting money, all those things. At the end of the day, we're still football coaches. Yeah. Right. And the best coaches out there, the ones that I emulate, respect, you know, try to model

myself somewhat after, they're ball coaches. Yeah. They're football coaches. There's still no schematic advantages in the game at X's nose. That's right. They love a deuce block. Deuces, aces, trays. Pulling and kicking.

Yeah, you know, that's, that's never going to, that's not going to change. I always like down blocks. I just like angles. Yeah, I like having the angle. On inside the backside backer, it's an easy rule. Yeah. Or, or there are certain plays, you get the backer's eyes in the wrong direction,

and he doesn't know you're coming. Well, that's all the motion stuff. I know. That's what put all the misdirection on it. Those are fun. But it's a fun game. The look on his face when he realizes what's about to happen. The eyes get this big and whack.

The DBs always look like that if you're out. Yeah, but now you've got to be careful because you don't want to get unsportsman-like. Oh, that's right, because you're not allowed to hit people hard anymore. Yeah, it's one of those things. I think I might have led the ACC and late hits when I was a player. Well, it's the echo of the whistle, right? That's what I kept saying. I even, like, pulled old VCR tapes up and like, see, the whistle hitting blown.

Yeah, but the play's dead. I'm like, well, come on. Again, both sides of our mouth, right? He's exactly right. Well, yeah, now you're ripping a guy if he's costing you 15 yards because he knows better. Well, our guys play a certain way. I want him to play a certain way. And look, if they get a penalty because of it at some point in time, you know, perfect example is we played the other team in the state last year.

And, you know, Keel and Rutledge, my right guard, you know, gets a 15-yard or thrown on them. We're driving, you know, down 25-30-yard line. And he comes in my office after the game and just, devastated. I'm like, I don't care. That's how you play the game. Like, if they wanted to make that judgment call, they made it. But we're not changing how we play. Let it be a mistake of effort.

If it's a mental error where you forgot the snap count, you know. Yes. It was an effort mistake of aggression that may. So be it. It happens. Brent, thank you so much. Appreciate you, man. That was awesome. Yeah. That is Georgia Tech Coach,

Brent. Key. New offensive coordinator, new defensive coordinator. new quarterback. It'll be different on the flats this year, Ari. But the idea is, hopefully, for them, that they take some of the success they had last year, understand why they had it, understand why they fell off at the end of last season,

and that they are more prepared to deal with that sort of success. They're going to be challenged right away. Unlike most teams, they're kicking things off with two power conference, out-of-conference games. Colorado first, then Tennessee. So we'll find out. Kudos to Georgia Tech, by the way, with Georgia at the end, too.

Like, man, they, I mean, they, they scheduled. And that's, you know, that's good. Very curious if Georgia Tech is going to, like, punt Colorado into the moon. That game was very close last year because Georgia Tech made a lot of early mistakes. There were a couple really early turnovers in Colorado jumped on them. But then Georgia Tech came. back. Yeah, I remember that. But I'm fascinated. We haven't really talked about Colorado much. I'm very fascinated by this season. Yeah. Bryn and Marion bringing the go-go offense to Boulder.

So, you know, you've got an exciting quarterback and stuff, but then also the coach is dealing with some health issues and, you know, I don't think their talent. I mean, if you look at, we did that, who puts portal players in the draft the most. Dion should be up there because they take the most portal players, but they're not. They only had four players drafted, and it's Chador and Travis Hunter, and then Jolie Hester and Jimmy Horn Jr. Yeah.

Like, that's it. So. John T. Wester is dog, though. He's going to be good in Baltimore, I think. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So Brent Key seems to have a plan, but it's interesting because talking to Fran Brown this week,

talking to Brent Key this week, in both cases, you had guys who were, were young in their head coaching lives who had to learn some things. And it didn't go the way they wanted to. And like Brent Key said, like, that's the stuff you have to learn to deal with now. You can't really deal with it when it's happening to you in season. I think Fran Brown said something very similar. So I'm fascinated to see how they evolve as head coaches because we talk about this. Like when you're new at the job, there are still things that even end. year three or four, you don't quite know yet. So they're now evolving. Ari, we have evolved

because we've been doing these random rankings and they're awesome and they're fun. We have a topic this week that just would not have worked for a random ranking because I think we would all have, we would all have the same list essentially, or might have the same order, might have the same, you know, three or four the same for everybody. And I didn't want to do it that way. I want everybody to have a different list. I want to add a little competitive aspect to it. So we're going to draft the top rivalries in college football.

Producer Rivers joined us. Given River the first pick in this one. He was on a first date last night. So we're like, okay. Yeah. Our man is, he's coming in hot. He's on the apps. He's going to work his way through the apps.

Yeah. Yeah. But anyways, first pick one-on-one. I'm going with the game, Michigan, Ohio State. I don't know how you cannot pick this game as your first pick. And this, River, this is why we're doing a draft because we all would have had this number one. There's nothing quite like the Michigan, Ohio State rivalry. It consumes these two states, I guess except for Michigan State fans, but consumes these two fan bases.

year round. The psychological damage of a loss is incredible. Yeah. And then, you know, you had the flag planning a few years ago and then just the Harbaugh-R-Ball-Ryan Day aspect of it all. You know, I've never been to this game, but I know enough about it to make you my number one pick. Yeah, you don't have to go to know. Right. And I never went to a Woody Bow game, but I'm sure they were amazing. Yeah. The River, I will tell you, the rivalry is as intense as you just mentioned. but like 40 years ago, too.

It wasn't just the past six years. I mean, it didn't get to nickname the game for no reason, right? Yeah. Obviously, then probably would have been number one for all of us. Is that the question I wanted to ask before I go to this next pick and make everyone angry? Is this just universally agreed upon in college upon? I think there's one group that I'm assuming you're going to pick this one next

that would say different. But I think most college football fans, if you just said vote on the best rivalry, this is the one that would overwhelmingly win. All right. What is your number two? I mean, it should be fairly obvious. What is your number two? I think I messed up, guys.

I took Oklahoma, Texas number two. Uh-huh. Because you like corny dog? The Iron Bowl was also there. and that's what Andy will be taking next, obviously. How do you not take the Iron Bowl here? I'm kind of sentimental about the Texas OU game. I just, I've covered football for a long time and granted.

Auburn's going to win the football game. Auburn's going to win the football. Come on. I've never been to the Iron Bowl and I hope that changes soon. But, Ari, there are a lot of things I've never done that I know are amazing. Yeah, like I've never been to the moon. I'm sure it's awesome. And I know it's amazing and obviously would have taken it if I were in your position.

I also think that drafting two was the worst possible draft position even though I didn't make this mistake. Drafting three was the worst because the Iron Bowl and the game were going to be gone. Yeah. The Iron Bowl for me, which is the dumbest thing. I made the pick because I'm like three minutes into the thing and I have you been to explain it. There's no explanation, but go ahead. Yeah. I've been covering college football for 20 years.

I've been to a lot of games. I've been to rivalries. I covered Ohio State, Michigan every year for 15 years. I know what rivalries are all about. The Texas Oklahoma game itself is unlike any other experience that exists in college football.

Like I think. Georgia, which is exactly like, except for the fair. I don't think it is, except for the fair, which is the whole thing. You've been to one boring Florida, Georgia game,

and people weren't even really drunk then. And it was in a Jacksonville, Jaguar Stadium. I'm not going to neg it too much, but like it's not the same thing. And I resent the idea that it is. It's exactly the same, except for the fair. I have never experienced anything like this. It's very unique in a way that I think uniqueness should be rewarded.

And I think maybe this was an oversight. And I'm willing to acknowledge that, but I don't think it's an insane pick. It's dark. I'm about to take Mello. River took LeBron. You took Darko and now I'm about to take Mello. It's not true because you're acting like. like this is a bad game.

Like if it's not a bad game, it's not a bad game. It's not even close. I'm still taking one of the best things in college football. You're not even close. I think, I think one of the best things in college. You're going to get more shit for this than I am if you keep talking.

No, I'm not. You don't think so. It's not the hard one of the best things in college football. You wouldn't. The baseball is one of the best, the best two. Like, there are only two that are the best two. You're over.

I think you're making a mistake. right now. I might have made a mistake, but I think that you're overly nagging a game that you would have immediately taken right after if I didn't. I don't even know what I would have. That may be fair. It's a snake draft. I get two. That may be fair, but the game and the Iron Bowl are just right up here. One A, one B. And then the Red River is probably right underneath it. I mean, but it's, I think it's just no question. It's the SEC. Yeah, the only rivalry that you can even compare to Ohio State Michigan.

Michigan is Alabama Auburn. Yeah. There's nothing else that's very close. The one point you guys made off the show that is good is that there were some iconic finishes

in the Auburn, the kick six and fourth and 31 that we will remember. That's recent. Right. I will say, though, and you're the one that always brings us up, Andy,

that there is an element of craziness at the Texas OU game that you can never account for. Like, it is an insane. What has happened to any Texas OU game that is crazier than the two plays you just mentioned, ever.

In the history of the rivalry. I actually am not even sure I could come up with more plays in college football history that are better than those, too. Like I understand that. You're making my argument for me. I will hear, okay, here's where I will defend you a little bit. I think Texas OU falls behind these other two for structural reasons. If Texas OU was at the end of the year, it would be different because it would have more

effect on things. Now, it was a non-conference game for a long time. So the first, what, 80 years of it, it was a non-conference game. They both were playing it for 40 years longer than the Iron Bowl. Yeah, and the Iron Bowl is still better. Listen, I've already acknowledged. If you played this at the end of the year with the two of them in the same conference, which they have been in the same conference as 1996,

I think we would look at it probably closer to the Iron Bowl because they're good and they're usually two of the best teams. So I think it would have more like because the game has an impact obviously. Texas OU has an impact. But there's no balance in the season. Right. Because it you don't know what the impact will be necessarily until more games are played. Oh, stakes are important.

The college football games. Who would have thought? Yeah. So I agree with that. And I think I probably did make a mistake here. I overthought it. I have a thing with with large menus, you know. And choosing correctly.

Yeah. Especially when my, and what happened here is my number one choice was already, they're sold out for the day, so I had to like pivot. And I haven't been to one and I haven't been to the other. I'm sentimental about this. Again, I've never been to the moon. I know the view is awesome. But you have to acknowledge that the Oklahoma, Texas game is incredibly unique

in an experience that isn't really like anything. Except that I've been to multiple Florida, Georgia games and multiple Oklahoma, Texas games. And other than the fair, they're the same thing. The fair is the whole. thing. Like, what are you talking? Other than, other than the ocean, California is the same as Phoenix. Like, what are you talking about? The fair is amazing. Other than the fair, which is the coolest, college football, they're the same. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I got it. The kick six was cooler. All right. I'm taking the Iron Bowl. Yeah. Many of the reasons that I have just stated, I don't know what the hell are he was thinking. I almost would have taken it number one if I'd had the number one pick.

I think I still would have taken Michigan, Ohio State. But yes, the Iron Bowl is one of the most amazing rivalries in all of sports, not just college football, all of sports. It's truly special. No sacred trees have ever been poisoned after a Texas OU game. I mean, come on. Yeah. Let's be real here.

What are we doing? All right. It's a snake draft, so I got two picks. With the first pick of the second round, I will take the Army Navy game. Good pick. Army and Navy. Is it River? It's a great thing.

What do you think, Ari? Yeah, go ahead. Tell us, Ari, which thing? I think it's hard to take a game that would not be watched on a regular Saturday if there were other football games on over some of the other ones that are available to us. Okay. That's your opinion. I love the triple option. I think it's beautiful.

I love the traditions. I think they're amazing. I love when it snows. I just think this is a beautiful game. If you don't support the troops, I understand. I support the troops, and I'm very thankful for the troops. Okay. I also am always very sad when this game is on because it's coming to an end.

Well, depending on how the playoff situation goes, we may see this game in a different place. But it's complicated because... Why? Well, it's complicated for a lot of reasons. But what's the main reason why it's complicated to move? the game. Well, CBS and the two service academies, which, you know, have a little political pull,

don't want to move it. Is it because of viewership windows? Is that like an issue? Yeah. And it's going to be put in a place by itself. Why? Because it deserves it. Great pick, Andy.

Is it? It is. It's a much better pick than Texas OU at two. I think you put that there for vanity reasons, not. for personal emotional reasons. Are you calling it a pander? I love the triple option. I do.

I get it. You're a ball owner. So I'm calling it a pander pick. Okay. Let's, okay, redeem yourself with your second pick. You're pandering to the general public with that.

Your next pick, your second round pick. My second round pick is Florida State, Miami. Obviously, you know, in state, bitter rivalry,

but this game had so many iconic games and basically was like, at the peak of great football when I was a kid. Growing up, this was the game that everybody isolated on Saturday. The hatred is there. These two teams despise each other. They both have been down for a considerable amount of time,

which I think is probably part of the reason why we're not as romantic about it in the current state. But I'm just like long for a college football world where both of these teams are in the playoff hunt at the same time playing each other. It's just awesome. and I went to my first one ever in Tallahassee last year. And even though Miami was awesome and Florida State was bad, it's got super hateful undertones to it. And I just love it.

Andy, you live in the state. Do you think this is a good pick or do I suck again? I think this is a great pick. I was very jealous when you took this one because when I was a kid, this was the most intense rivalry in the sport. In the 90s, there was nothing more intense than Miami, Florida State. And there's another one like Texas OU that happened in the middle of the year, And basically every time these two teams played in the 90s, it had an impact on the national

title game. And you just didn't know what the impact was until more games got played. But it was a spectacular series. The hatred, like the Ed Reed speech when Miami's beating them and he's remembering losing to Florida State early in his career, I'm hurt, dog! That, it's unbelievable. I love this rivalry. I think that as bad as your first round pick was,

this is, this more than makes up for it. I also think that like Bobby Bowden is, do you think that Bobby Bowden is appreciated enough in the pantheon of college football? I think he is where I live. Okay. Because, you know, it's close by. I'm not sure if he is.

I think that's a good question because he was spectacular. And remember, if there had been even a 14-plus, playoff from 1980 on. Bobby Bowden would have like five national titles. And the two wide rights. They finished in the top four of the AP poll for 14 consecutive years. Yeah. In 1987 through 2000.

Like what Bobby Bowden did was that that's never going to be. Maybe Nick Saban, I don't think even Nick Saban did that. This is not going to be recreated. And the wide right things from the early 90s, back to back year. you know, Miami wins games that, you know, field goal. Yeah, Florida State could not find a kicker who could make those kicks. Yeah. And then they finally make it in 1993.

But I will say that even though it's not as intense from a stake standpoint the last two years, like the hate, I mean, I see the hatred online. You know, it's still. Oh, 100%. I mean, if the second Florida State gets good again, that becomes incredible. Okay, River, you're up. I love this pick. all right uh my second round picked close out the second round will be u s c notre dame and it's a shame

that they're not playing the next two seasons um i think other than the covid season this will be the first year since world war two where they've not played so yeah they better get get this thing back i think 2030's the target date to get it back so uh you know shame they're not playing this year but definitely made the draft for me two iconic logos two iconic brands and the uniform matchup is just. I almost took this. Yes. Yeah.

Instead of Florida State, Miami, but I'm pissed at it right now. Yeah, I don't blame it. I don't blame it. Like, I'm not, I'm not taking them right now. I get it. But like, if you can. It's fair. You don't hate each other.

This is the only one of these, I think, that we're going to pick that's not being played this year. Unless somebody takes Alabama LSU. That was, that was certainly on the list, but I will say that you should hate each other enough to ensure that you play. Right. Yeah. And that's part of the reason why I don't know if anybody took Oklahoma, Oklahoma State,

but Bedlam was awesome and that's not going to make my list because they don't play each other. Right. I sort of eliminated that from consideration because it wasn't important enough to keep playing, according to them. Yeah. Although I might have a crossroads on that later on with the game that I have that was not played for a while. So, okay. Your next pick, River.

Going to the third round. And this one is the one that's most near and dear to me. I'll go down to the third Saturday in October, Tennessee, Alabama. Get out your cigars, smoke them if you got them. This game, I grew up with a lot of bad memories with this game. Nick Saban killed us every year, killed the Vols. But lately it's been a battle of who has the home, who's got home field advantage in this game.

So third Saturday in October, I was told folk stories about this game from the 80s and, you know, growing up and all that. So, you, River. Yeah. Tennessee actually won this game. They won two times. They won every now and then. And then I saw some.

There was a time when they had a streak against Alabama. And did he reach for this? Would he have been able to get it back on the back end? I think so, but, you know, I would say that Tennessee winning a couple of them in the last few years has really shown you how much it really means. Yeah. And when it was just crushing him, it, yeah, it was very,

boring but the second tennessee broke back in 2022 and actually won one of these you saw how important was to everybody and you go back to moments i think in the last five years you'd be remiss if you didn't include the 2022 storm in the field i mean that was a moment for tennessee that's just like yeah finally finally yeah thank god so uh yeah third saturday in october round three arey your pick you know i i feel like i was forced to get Florida, Georgia here in the third round. You do love neutral site games. I do like the neutral site games that are like indicative of the border.

But I also feel like this was something that I was surprised got back to me in the third round. And I also didn't want to get through the entire. I wasn't going to leave Army Navy on the table. And I wasn't going to leave like, I think this is where it should be. because if we look at Florida, Georgia, it's not actually been that significant of a game, if we think about it because it's been so streaky. When Florida's good, they were pounding Georgia.

When Georgia got good, they were pounding Florida. They have not really traded paint in years where it really mattered, except for 97-07. Those were two Georgia wins. But like, you know, Florida, what it used to be, in the 60s was every time Florida had a good team, they would go get their hearts broken by Georgia and Jacksonville. Now, obviously, the most significant result in the history of this game is 1980,

which is a year Georgia won the national title. Florida had the game won, and then Buck Ballou hits Lindsay Scott. So make it that one. That one is on par with the kick six or anything like that. But it has not been through the 90s, in 2000s, it's been so streaky and the dominant team has usually been the one that won. It has not surprised you that much. And I think that's probably the reason why it lands here rather than higher.

Been to the game. The one game that I went to sucked. Georgia beat the crap out of Florida, obviously echoing. Yeah, that's the issue, Ari, is like when Florida is really good, they were beating the crap out of Georgia. Georgia is not good. They were beating the crap out of Florida. So that's why, but that's why like 97 and 2007 stick out the way they do.

because it was like, oh, this is different. And so Florida had one of those, Will Must Champs last year, 2014, were Florida Shocked, Georgia. But you don't have as many of those in this rivalry as you do in some of the other ones. So I think that's why. All right, I get two picks now.

The timing on the schedule is really important for these games, too. That's right, because it's middle of the season. I have two back to back, and I pick these because in the pantheon of sheer hatred, pure unadulterated hatred, Michigan, Ohio State's number one, Alabama Auburns number two, this is three and four.

Utah, BYU is my third round pick, and the Egg Bowl is my fourth round pick, Mississippi, State, and Ole Miss. These programs hate one another. Hate. Like we often say hate is a strong word. Hate is not strong enough. Well, I'm very curious.

The Holy War and the Egg Bowl. Because part of this, like, it's kind of hard to. And maybe I should, like, because we just like went right into this draft, there are multiple ways to rank the games, which is hate. but you also have, you know, timing, you have, you know, impact. You also have how good the games typically are and how interested the general public is in watching those games. Yeah. So like there's, depending on what you value, you could be swayed here,

but I don't think that in the third and fourth round that anybody's rolling their eyes at either of these picks. Well, and it's interesting. Well, recently at least, both these games have always been closer than they should be. the team that's supposed to win. Maybe they do win, but it's a pain in the ass to win. Well, Utah is just pure football, dude. Yeah. In the case of the Egg Bowl, there's one, you know, a few years ago,

where the game essentially turns on a player pretending to pee on the goalpost as an homage to a former Ole Miss player who pretended to pee on the goalpost. Like, it is unbelievable. It's so perfect. All right. So I'm going to go down to my number four, which is also pure unadulterated. And honestly,

maybe this is more emphasis of why I should have picked the Iron Bowl in the first round, but like I actually believe, because I live in the eye of the storm on this one, Texas and Texas A&M, hate each other as much as any two programs hate each other in college football. I think that the reason why it fell so far,

I actually am curious, and I don't know if anybody would ever, I get the sense that Texas hates A&M and A&M hates Texas more than Oklahoma and Texas hate each other. Because there's a level of respect between Texas and Oklahoma that I don't even exist between these two teams. Right. And the difference is Oklahoma, Texas has always been the matchup of better teams. And this is A&M's fault that it's here and not number one. I wonder if we did this draft in 20 years if we might see a change of the guard on that because. Yeah, if A&M starts winning more in general and starts winning some of these specifically,

it will climb the ladder very, very quickly. But the other part of it too is that they hadn't played it for 10 years before last year. Right. Right. So like if you're not even playing the, and like the thing that is so fun about this rivalry is that they hated each other while they weren't playing. they yell at each other while they're not playing about things they were one was in the big 12 one was in the SEC and they're not playing and they still are talking shit to each other nonstop online so like i actually think that in the in the pantheon of unadulterated hate that getting a two teams that hate each other this much in the fourth round is might i think this might be the steal of the draft

in my opinion so we'll see what people think of it but this is this is a wild wild thing and and the games haven't really lived up to it, although last year's game was, it was entertaining. Texas A&M does have to win one before it really gets there. And being in the same conference now and playing at the end of every year is going to emphasize this game

in a way that it hadn't been for a long time. And I think in 15 years, people that generation are going to view this differently than they do right now. Yeah, especially if like, you know, last year Texas was kind of on the outside looking in with this game, of the playoff speaking.

But if, you know, Texas has one less loss, and that that games everything for the playoffs at that point. Oh, yeah. This is the one, yeah, it could look like the steel. And if we do this again in even five years, that this could be a first round pick. Like five years ago, Tennessee, Alabama wouldn't have been picked, probably. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. My fourth round pick is the backyard brawl, Pittsburgh, West Virginia. which lots of hatred also not played this year. Yeah. So I've got two on my list that's not played this year. So a few years ago in Jeremy Pruitt's first year at Tennessee, Tennessee played West Virginia in Charlotte.

And one of their songs was Sweet Caroline. Of course, like every other school does. And they'll go, sweet Caroline. And then the West Virginia fans will come back and go, Eat Shit Pit. So there's a lot of hatred in this. I've seen a lot of old highlights of this game, and they just get after it.

This needs to be an annual game. But yeah, that's my fourth round pick, and we'll snake it on back to the start of the fifth round. I'll go with the Palmetto Bowl, South Carolina and Clemson. This game, two years ago, was one of the most electrifying games that we've had. The Lenora Sellers moment, that was unbelievable.

And if Clemson can just get back up to what are used to. You know, this game could be right back at it as far as well it's not clenson's fault that's south carolina too. I say this as someone who grew up a south Carolina fan the game cops have not really held up there into the bargain in a lot of there I will say Steve tanny hill signing a tiger paw as a freshman that was uh that was one of great moments in college football history right there so yeah this is this is a fun game it's pretty lopsided and it's south carolina's fault that it's pretty lopsided it should they've got to win some of these.

Yeah, and two years ago, the same day when Ohio State lost to Michigan and Lenora Sellers had that crazy moment, that was one of the more entertaining games of the rivalry weekend that weekend. So, you know, if they're both humming along, this game could be higher up on the draft, really. Yeah. All right, Ari. There were a lot of options here, and I had a hard time with this, but I like went with

a traditional. Or it was at the Cheesecake Factory at this point and just mystified on what to order. Well, I do think that, like, you know, you could have gone Ohio State, Penn State here. You mean, you could have gone Kansas, Missouri. I wanted to go with one that was like kind of intense in a region that I lived in for a long time. That's the Minnesota-Wisconsin rivalry. That's Paul Bunyan's axe. You know, Andy, you say that you're romantic about snow and triple option football.

Then you can't roll your eyes at this because this is, you know, the closest. option, but yes, it is snowy. And Paul, Paul Blaine's axe is one of the great trophies because it's a giant freaking axe. Like, it's also slop, hard-nosed like freak of nature in the trenches football, which is what you

were supposed to love. So, you know, I think that like these two teams, Wisconsin has been far more successful, but like the all-time series in this game is like 64 to 63. They, they kind of go back and forth. And I think that these two teams, their seasons are defined,

by what happens in this game. And I think it's maybe a more atypical answer than you would have gotten. And I actually went for reference because I don't know if you remember this, but Scott Docterman did a top 100 rivalries. Yeah. For the athletic last year. And I didn't look at it before we're doing this because I didn't want to impact. He had it number 10 overall.

So I think this is a pretty good value here too. I think it is. My last one is much better, though. Okay. My last pick is Oregon, Washington. That's also a good one. Yeah. These two teams, this is another super.

super hatred one. But I think obviously they're in the corner of the country and I don't know that people who don't live there understand how much they hate each other. But I would say this is very similar in dynamic to Texas,

Oklahoma and Florida, Georgia where each team may have their in-state rival that they play every year, but the border rival is actually the bigger game. And now, like Florida of Florida State became bigger than Florida, Georgia, in the 90s because of the stakes and the both teams, you know, being national title contenders.

But like Oregon, Washington usually going to be more important in the grand scheme. Now, obviously they're not in the Pac-12 anymore, but it was going to be more important most years in the grand scheme than the Civil War or than the Apple Cup. And these are the, you know, of those four, these are the two best programs. And they don't like each other at all. And this is one of those streaky rivalries, too. And, you know, the year that Washington beat them twice, the Kalin-de-Boror team that went to the national title game, I mean, that was a, those are some great games.

Those are great games. The Bo Nicks, Michael Pinnock's matchups, they were awesome. That was some good stuff. There's one major oversight that has to be acknowledged on the three of us, and that's Alabama, LSU. Now that team has. product of the SEC's divisions that don't exist anymore just like Florida, Tennessee. Did you know that when they both were in the SEC West, that they combined for a combined

22 trips of the SEC championship game, which made that their game every year is, and I don't know. It was often the most important regular season game of the season. And like if you actually go back and look at like some of the. most talented teams in the history of college football playing each other, like some of the most hyped up games of all time. Like there were times when I was covering the Big Ten where like everybody in Big Ten country was like, we're not doing anything right now.

We're watching this game. The problem is if you ask an Alabama fan, who's your biggest rival, this one's coming in third. Right. And I don't know if this is a traditional rivalry in the sense of like they would have hated each other no matter what, but circumstances with Nick Sabin. and the rosters and what was at stake for so many years in the recent past, kind of formed this into just an iconic game because of what it meant.

Yeah, this game was the SEC West one, the SEC East version of that was Florida, Tennessee. Alabama and LSU had played more than Florida and Tennessee. Like Florida and Tennessee actually barely played before the SEC had divisions. Alabama and LSU at least had played a bunch. But yes, I agree with that. But I can't put it on the list because no more divisions in the SEC, We're going to see it twice every four years.

I don't know that it's going to mean the same thing. Yeah. Especially when they go to 24. Okay, I had to get that in there. Any others to mention USC, UCLA, I kind of considered Georgia, Georgia Tech. It's old fashion. When's the last time that game mattered in the grand scheme? 2006 when UCLA beat USC?

Yeah. It's just not that often that it feels like it matters. Kansas, Missouri probably should have been on there. Michigan, Notre Dame. It's a good one. One that could have been on there. They don't play every year. uh the bedlam

Oregon Oregon State but Andy picked an Oregon one uh Stanford uh Cal could have been in there Stanford Cal's one I think that's just it doesn't have that much national import but TCU Baylor yeah yeah they do they hate each other

you know the Apple Cup the Apple Cup and the Civil the Civil War both kind of in the same boat with Washington State and Oregon State kind of getting left behind and it doesn't really yeah I don't even know but even if they were all still in the same league. I think we, like, I still would have picked Oregon Washington. Yeah, that game's been better the last 15 years for sure. What about Harvard, Yale? I almost picked that to suck up to the audience like you, Andy. They think it's to the East Coast elites. You know what's the one that's going to, I think is, is kind of hot, but wouldn't be ranked as TCUSMU. I think that that's kind

of a cool rivalry. The iron skillet, which they're not, they're not playing this year. And they don't play it. So Arizona, Arizona State was one that I've, been around. Farm again, Kansas State, Iowa State. Notre Dame, Miami. Ossico, Iowa, and Iowa State. Yeah. Notre Dame, Miami might have been a good one because of their history

and what's happening right now. Kind of like the history coming back, I don't play every year. Yeah, but I think USC, Stanford, LSU, Florida, like, I mean, I don't know. I think we did okay. But we'll see how this graphic plays. I have a feeling that I'm going to finish last

and maybe I deserve to after the, Iron Bowl. But the good news is, guys, that the way that this graphic is set up, the general person reading it on Twitter will not be able to see the order we picked. So, oh, no, it's, yes, you can. There's no dummy. Oh, oh, shit, you can't see it. Okay, you did it. Okay. All right. Well, I'm going to go log off for the rest of the day, but I appreciate the draft. I think I had an okay draft. I think you guys did very well, too. And we'll see how it goes, but it was a fun episode.

Good stuff. All right. We will talk to y'all. on Monday. Enjoy your weekends.