Andy & Ari On3 - West Virginia governor BATTLES the NCAA over March Madness snub

Episode Date: March 18, 2025

This show is brought to you by Panini America, makers of the most collectible sports cards on the planet. The Prism football card series a vibrantly paralleled base and insert roster featuring college football’s brightest former and current superstars. Panini sets include NIL autographed cards from players including Arch Manning, Quinn Ewers, Cam Ward, Jalen Milroe, Dylan Raiola, DJ Lagway, and Luther Burden. To start collecting, visit PaniniAmerica.net. Hosting a party for the big game? Are you about to have a house full of hungry people with painted faces looking to you for food? Have no fear, nothing saves a party from hunger like the Burger Box from Whataburger. It comes with 10 single or double patties (with or without cheese), all the fixings (like lettuce and tomatoes — which you can customize) and sauces. Perfect for whenever, whatever, whoever. Order online from April 4-7 and earn double reward points. (0:00-12:04) Intro - West Virginia vs NCAA(12:05-12:59) Whataburger(13:00-24:18) Why 5-Star QBs stay silent on NIL Compensation(24:19-25:54) PaniniAmerica.net(25:55-1:03:54) Dennis Dodd from CBS Sports Joins(1:03:55-1:08:09) Dennis Dodd's Rules for Life(1:08:10-1:09:19) Wrapping up, Conclusion As the First Four matchups begin tonight in Dayton, Ohio, West Virginia's governor Patrick Morrisey took a stand on Monday against the NCAA, using the words "National Corruption Athletic Association." With the snub for the Mountaineer basketball program, Andy & Ari discuss this piece of news. Also, we revisit Monday's interview with Ryder Lyons, who discussed NIL compensation, and Andy & Ari take a deep dive into top-tier recruits discussing their compensation. More from Ari on this here: https://www.on3.com/news/if-you-do-you-get-labeled-as-chasing-money-why-5-star-qbs-refuse-to-discuss-nil-compensation-during-their-recruitments/ Later, Dennis Dodd of CBS Sports joins the show. Last week, Dodd announced his retirement upon the conclusion of the basketball tournament in April. Andy & Ari check in with Dennis to discuss his storied career, discussing the highlights along the way. He also provides some incredible rules for life. On Tomorrow's show, James Fletcher III will join us to discuss the NCAA Tournament. Send in your questions regarding football, basketball, and everything else in between to [e-mail] or [e-mail]. Watch us on YouTube instead! https://www.youtube.com/@On3sports Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari WassermanProducer: River Bailey 

Welcome to Annie and Ari on three. You know it is between selection Sunday and the start of the NCAA tournament because we still have somebody complaining about selection. Nobody will do that once it turns tips off on Thursday, but we got a governor threatening legal action against the NCAA. Governor Patrick Morrissey of West Virginia wants to sue the NCAA to investigate how the Mountaineers of West Virginia did not make the NCAA tournament. This smells a great deal. I would ask the NCAA to work collaboratively with them for answers, Patrick Morrissey said on Monday. Nearly every single sports fan, pundit, bracketologist had WVU

as a shoe in for the tournament. In fact, leading up to selection Sunday, 111 out of 111 bracketologist projected WVU to make the tournament. And for good reason, Ari, our J, James Fletcher, the third here on three had West Virginia in the tournament. In fact, I believe was the only team he missed. He didn't have Xavier in, but he did have West Virginia in. Which could be part of the lawsuit. Yes, well we're gonna have to have James on tomorrow to talk about that. Yeah, how many losses did West Virginia have this year? 14? They had a few. They didn't have the most sterling resume, if that's what we're talking about here.

Oh, the thing that stinks. Let's just get to the thing that stinks and we need to have a conversation about this because it also pertains to football. But should the committee chair of the playoff committee or the selection committee have to forego bonuses, financial bonuses when a team that they are affiliated with makes the tournament that they serve to help. No, no, cause what if, Optical. What if Auburn, what if Auburn AD John Cohen was on the committee?

Like there was no doubt Auburn was getting in. Then he would have to forego his minuscule bonus from an optic standpoint. Oh his bonus, the AD's bonus. I thought you were talking about like NCAA tournament shares for the school. Yes. No, no, no. The personal bonus of the, because Bubba Cunningham. Okay, yeah, I can live with that. The athletic director of North Carolina got a $100,000 bonus. I think it's a little bit more than $100,000, which I think is a one month salary. And I think that the reason why everybody

in this world is pissed off right now is because that made it look worse. Right? Like that was the number one story. North Carolina got in, West Virginia didn't get in. And then he gets a bonus on top of it. Even if's not in the room his buddies in the room are helping grease the wheels so we can get some you know you know how it goes off the rails so um that to me is like to me is like i do not think it's rigged everybody thinks it's rigged uh i don't think that's the case but i do think that from an optic standpoint it probably makes sense to if you're going to voluntarily be on the committee you would have to forgo your bonus. To which I would say when they ask me to be on the committee, hell no, I'll take my bonus.

Yeah, and you know maybe so. I don't know how people would handle that, but like the thing that I think is interesting about the committee corruption or whatever that people say when this stuff happens is, if you don't have anybody affiliated with schools at all, then you just have me and Andy doing it. Like at a certain point, you have to, like there's always gonna be a conflict somewhere with somebody, right? So- And we went to schools too.

Like, so if our, and our, both of our alma mater's made it in very comfortably but let's say they would they didn't they hadn't people would have questions about that too if it was just sports writers or if it was just fans or if it's just anything because everybody's from somewhere and everybody went somewhere everybody coached somewhere everybody served in an administrative role somewhere and then you even get people who are just

affiliated with conferences who have those. It might not even be in school, but you have the entire conference. So I don't think that there was some mass corruption happening here. I think that it's possible that the North Carolina brand carried some weight. I mean, Ward Manuel was on the playoff committee

for football the year after Michigan won the national title. I mean, it's like a very normal thing. And every time something happens that someone's upset about, instead of just trying to understand why it happened, it's always the history channel conspiracy theory of corruption and deceit. And I don't really think it's all that deep, especially considering the fact that the team that was left out was a team that wasn't very good.

Right. Yeah, I mean they're 19 and 13. That is not a good record. That's not a record that's usually going to get you into the NCAA tournament. It's just everybody on the bubble is incredibly flawed. So they picked one incredibly flawed team over another incredibly flawed team. And now I am curious because it is true, most of the bracketologists got it wrong. Like got, thought that West Virginia was in, thought that North Carolina was out.

Now our guy, James Fletcher, did not think North Carolina was out. He had North Carolina in, but he had Xavier out and Xavier got in. And so you're talking about teams that are down here in the net rankings, which is what the committee uses. So like West Virginia was 51st in the net rankings. North Carolina was 36th. Virginia was 51st in the net rankings. North Carolina was 36th. So maybe that had something to it, but you go to the Quad One games. Quad ones is your games against some of the best teams in the country. West Virginia was 6 and 10 in Quad One games, which doesn't sound that great until you look at North

Carolina. They're one in 12. Yeah, yeah, and like River just pointed out, like these these are teams that are potentially facing like coaches being fired. You know what I mean? Like it's not like you're talking about really good teams. I mean, I feel like in like the Florida state situation where it's like, we're gonna get legal action. We're gonna attack our own conference.

Like all the things that I was like the Florida state thing, they were undefeated and played in the power conference. And there was fewer spots and in football, like you're talking about a very good team that was mistreated. But like we always say, if you put yourself in a position where your team's not very good Then you put yourself on the chopping block and if you get chopped you only have yourself to blame So like I just like the thing I just can't stand and I don't know if it doesn't make for good

Podcasting probably but like I just like this conspiracy theory about everything. It's like everything is a conspiracy now It's like can't people just deal with like, bad things happening in a different way? Or does it always have to be some weird, weird, corrupt overture? Well, we've moved into a world where everybody has their own little niche and you can live in your little niche. And so when you live in your little niche, everything that you want to happen happens. But when you go outside your little niche, there are other people and they have their own interests and they have their own desires and wants. And sometimes they get the thing that you want

and it doesn't work out for you. But when you're so used to everything going your way and every piece of information you get, you know, backing up what you believe, it comes as a great shock when somebody's like, nah, we're gonna go with this thing. The real question here too, Andy, is that if you swapped the two resumes, if people would still be mad,

is it more about the logos or is it about the resume? That's the thing that. The thing is, I think as long as you're not a fan of either team, you really don't give a crap which one got in yeah because they're both inherently flawed and the political grandstanding it's just like okay dude you know bring legal action like I mean it doesn't all right and then what he had a sign on his lectern he had a sign on his lecture and I believe it said national corruptrupt Athletic Association.

Like Brian Bosworth all over again. That's right. Shades of the National Communist Athletic Association. That was the t-shirt that Bosworth. But this is just great theater and it's highly entertaining and it's great that it happened on the Monday and when the tournament tips off at noon Eastern time on Thursday, no one's going to care. That is the one beautiful thing about the NCAA tournament.

Like people always complain on Monday about who got in and who didn't get in. By Thursday, no one cares about that. All we care about are who wins. Yeah. And I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your pending legal action and all the money you're spending on doing that. So good luck to you and I hope that works out well for you and advances your political career a little bit.

Hey look, we talked about it. He got what he wanted. He got what he wanted. Yeah, they got what he wanted. I don't know that they're going to get a whole lot of other. Now look, if you can crack the code and get somebody in the room or get a whole lot of other. Now look, if you can crack the code and get somebody in the room or get a camera in the room and we can get the football committee, Playhouse Election Committee broadcast, I'm for that.

I will donate to your re-election fund if you can make that happen, Patrick Morrissey. Question I have for you. Yeah. Is I don't know anything about civics, so you know this, but like if there were a legal Proceeding to take place or a suit filed who's funding that? Well, I mean that they have a they have an attorney general in the state of West Virginia

So he draws or he or she draws a salary I don't I'm sorry I don't know the West Virginia attorney, you know general's name off the top of my head But that person draws a salary So they just be getting their salary to do this over. And who funds that salary? The taxpayers. Okay. Got it. You see where I'm headed here. Oh yeah. I know exactly where you are. Because they would be doing that over doing something that's probably more useful for the state. Like, you know, trying to figure out a way to maybe stock

up the food banks more or, you know, do something with, you know, I mean, that's not really what the West, the attorney general will be doing in West Virginia, but you know, you know, trying to figure out a way to maybe stock up the food banks more or, you know, do something with, you know, I mean, that's not really what the West the Attorney General will be doing in West Virginia. But you know, taxpayer funds could be allocated to help people instead of wasting your time on a team that probably would get bounced or whatever game they played anyway, because they suck. Well, they would have gone to Dayton. All right, they would have played the first four. So, I mean, maybe they would have won. Who knows? But yes, this is like clockwork. We get one of these every year. This is a little more extreme than what we usually get. But

we get something like this every year about the about the football ones, because if you get out of the top 12, then you're not good enough. And I ended up kind of caring a little bit about, you know, how that went down. But you don't care about basketball. It's like, if you are team 65, like get the hell out of here. Well, you're not really you're actually like team. You're probably like team 48. I think that's that's probably the best. Yeah, there's there's 34 at largest. But then of course, there's a lot of power

conference auto bids. So like, you know, you're Houston won the big 12 tournament. So they're you're... Houston won the Big 12 tournament, so they're an auto bid. Florida won the SEC tournament, so they're an auto bid. So, but yeah, so you're really talking about like number 46 or 47 here, so no. Outside of the fan bases of West Virginia and North Carolina, no one cares.

So, but I'm glad we're getting some transparency that I don't expect to get Yeah, I'm super excited for the suit and the impending nothingness that comes out of it Then did Florida actually Florida State even file suit two years ago. I can't remember No, Ashley Moody the the AG did do some saber rattling there I was actually filed something but they they quickly turned to the fight against the ACC. Yeah. Shemudi was very supportive of Florida State in the fight against the ACC.

So I think that probably superseded that. Ari, before we move on- It worked out well for them in the end too. They got, I'd say they got what they wanted. Now there's a clock on it, but they got what they wanted. Ari, when you're watching the basketball, because remember once the tournament tips off, that's all we're thinking about.

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Ari, we got to talk about a column you wrote off an interview that we saw yesterday. So we saw the Rider Lions interview on the show yesterday, really interesting interview. There was a quote that's- Great camera work too. It's fantastic camera work. There was a quote that stuck out to pretty much everybody who saw it.

So River, play that clip. Why do you think people are so bashful, so shy, so nervous to talk about money? Because if you do, you get labeled as someone who's chasing money. I mean, if you were to say they're offering missed, which the thing is 99% of the world, if you got offered $150,000 more to take this job, most people are taking it. Yeah, right. Which is, so it's just,

but I think people don't wanna talk about it because, yeah, you get bashed online. You get bashed on social media, but for me, the whole- They think that you're not focused. I guess. The whole thing for me about the NIL space is, it's how much they believe in you, you know? Because if they're gonna invest all this money into you, then they kind of- That's also a sign of trust. Yeah. Trust, like, they believe in you, you know? They're gonna invest all this money into you then.

That's also a sign of trust. Yeah. Trust, like I believe in you, like you're our guy, you know? So that's the biggest part to me. It's a very mature answer for a guy who's still in high school. Yeah. Really, really mature. Yeah, it's also somebody who has 200,000 TikTok followers,

is probably worth a ton of money, has a brother who already plays in college football and is maybe the most valuable, if not one of the five most valuable assets in recruiting this year. So it's like, that's the thing. It's like, I think we look at people who are in his shoes as children,

and you forget the fact that they have probably already created a net, a worth as a human that supersedes most of you know, the general public, um, you know that that to me is like I think he's the poster child for the discussion of Why are people so afraid to talk about money because he's the one that's actually worth that money, you know And that doesn't mean that he's gonna live up to whatever they pay him or that he's guaranteed to be a star But if you are spending X number of dollars on a speculative asset, that's where you spend that money, right? Like any, no different than they, Tennessee did with Niko and so many other programs have done in the time since. So like, I just like want to get to a point where we can actually have a discussion and instead of a recruiting interview going, yeah, well, we

feel at home and, you know and the locker room is great. I'm feeling really good with the running back coach. They've developed draft. It's the same. It's a family atmosphere. It's a family atmosphere. Over and over again, we could get to a place where we can just be like, well, they offered me

a more compelling compensation package. And this is what I, you know, there's, there's this, this and this financially that like appeals to me and my family, we need the money, blah, blah, blah. I think that that would be better. But I think the only way that we could get to that point is if, you know, human beings received commitments and, you know, NIL differently. Like, I think that like the reason why so many people can't get their hand around it, or their head around it is because for a hundred years

it's been illegal and anybody who took money. Well, not illegal, it's been against NCAA rules. It's not against the rules of the United States of America or any state. Morally wrong or whatever, however you want to put it. Yeah and like we haven't caught up to the normalcy of like, yeah, this is just part of the game now. Yeah. In fact, the schools were breaking a federal law by having the rules. So, get

over it everybody. That's interesting is is that like if you like watch pro sports like no athlete ever has to defend or be bashful about their contract. You know, like it's just kind of like they have to defend it sometimes or they just don't like the Sean Watson's contract is atrocious. Have you ever heard anybody say, oh wow, he left the Yankees to go play for the Marlins because he's a money hungry idiot who will never like yes, Yankees fanses fans no you're not getting it I mean that would never happen nobody would ever go for the Yankees the

Marlins for money but no I maybe the other way around it doesn't mean they're not good like I think that people use the NIL thing to say they're like that person's not worth the headache or that well what it is or they're not mad that person didn't go to my school and I'm gonna blame it on money when in fact they probably just chose the other school because they were probably getting off the same amount of money. What I'm saying is you can't demand transparency and information about NIL and about the financial aspect of it if you behave that way.

Correct. Okay. Correct. The more you behave that way, the more it's going to be treated as taboo even though it's legal. So, yeah. And I think, don't you think that the main, a main piece of every recruiting update is who's offering you the most money?

Shouldn't that be the, I mean, when you read free agency news about the NBA, do you not talk about, about contractors? Like it just, they're pro athletes, whether we like it or not, they're pro athletes. And we have to get to a place where we treat them like it. Yeah, and the thing is, like, there are people who are still kind of Pollyanna-ish who think,

oh, they were amateurs, and it was always pure. It was never pure. It never was. There was always something going on under the surface. There was always a money game, whether it was actually getting into their pockets or not. Now it's actually getting into the pockets of the people who deserve to be getting it. But it was always about who could spend more money,

whether it was on the players or on the facilities or on whatever. So we need to stop being so precious about it. But I think you're right. If you're gonna act like someone taking money or someone taking the highest offer to take a job is somehow immoral or dirty. Like one as as Ryder Lyons pointed out, that's no different than anybody else in the world.

Yeah. So how is that dirty? You ever heard of Ryan Kaji? You know who that is? You probably don't. But no, I don't. He's a little he's a little kid on YouTube. Oh, you wrote about him. Yeah, he's an unboxer. He reviews toys yeah, made two twenty nine and a half million dollars as a

Preteen boy in 2020 and it has a net worth of North of a hundred million dollars. So yeah, let's just cut the their kids crap. Okay Yeah, and it's true. It's never bothered us when they were singers or tennis players or golfers. It just bothered us when they're football players and basketball players. So this was but it was really interesting hearing that from from the guy and look, I don't blame these these players for not wanting to talk about it publicly. Who not many people want to talk about their salaries publicly. So yeah, I I don't

Talk about it, but like if somebody's like, yeah, I'm down to Florida State LSU In Alabama all those places are amazing. We have a lot to sift through We're still getting back the final NIL offer so we can weigh though like you You have you have you read a quote like that recently? No, they're just like, it's like they're ashamed of it. Well, and different people take it different ways. Like some people, I remember talking to a family last year that their kid was a recruit, had already committed, and they're like, we haven't even started talking

at NIL with the school yet. And I was like, what? You need to do that before you're sure you're committed. Like these are things you need to know. You know like yeah, you're sure you're committed like these you need to know You know what stands out to me Andy? And we were both at the athletic at this time and like it's one of the regrets that I've had You know, I don't know if you've written something and just been like I shouldn't have done that in your career but it's happened to me a few times and

It was when the Jaden Rashada stuff was happening, I drove from Dallas down to the Houston area to interview DJ Lagway when he was in high school. Right, he was already committed to Florida. He was committed to Florida at the time. And I said, I went there because I was like, in light of what's going on with Jayden, how does this change your commitment?

How does this change your financial dealings and all that stuff? And I spent an hour with him in the office. Great kid, good family, awesome coach, everything. I'm not bad mouthing him. But I wrote a story about how NIL is not important to him and how being developed to the NFL is the most important thing.

And it was like the exact thing that Florida fans wanted to read in that moment. At the time, yeah. Yeah thing and it was like the exact thing that Florida fans wanted to read in that moment at the time yeah yeah and it was just like not true but you know what I mean yeah we're not bad about team lagway did what they were supposed to do and made sure DJ got taken care of like and it's not taken care of very. And it's not bad to do it that way. What is weird to me is, is why the family had to portray a situation that the NIL stuff was secondary when it wasn't. And that's all, like, it's like, you know,

Florida messed up with Jayden Rashado. We're doing our due diligence with Florida to make sure that whatever we come to an agreement on is something that we can, you know, make sure is ironclad and that, like, why is that so taboo? It just seems bizarre to me. I'm trying to buy a car, uh, and I'm DMing 15 people a day. Hey, what do you think of this listing?

What do you, I need help. I'm a 37 year old man. I can talk about finance. It just doesn't, it does not make sense to me and it's annoying. And I can't stand that the entire recruiting world and I think on three has done a really good job of kind of trying its best evaluations and we have an NIL reporter who kicks ass and like we don't shy away from it but so many recruiting updates are just nonsense because it's not real information that's a family atmosphere they develop people to the

NFL I love it it's close to home It's like that does not matter anymore. And it's okay. Let's talk about the things that matter. That's all. Right. That stuff does matter. It probably just matters less now because the money's a huge part of it. And I think it will get there.

I do think it'll get there. I think we're a few years off. It's still very new. It hasn't even been five years since NIL was okay'd. I mean, it was four years ago in June. So it's going to happen. It's just going to take some time. And there are discounts, right? There are discounts. Sometimes great places to get a player for cheaper and whatever. The same way that in the professional world, you might take a few less dollars to work in an environment with people that you like. Like, it's the same thing, but like, financial agreement for five-star quarterbacks is going to be front and center forever. And it's okay to talk about it, and I'm congratulating Ryder Lyons for being so mature and open about it,

because it was actually refreshing to talk to somebody about it. actually refreshing to talk to somebody about it. Well, next up, we got a great conversation with somebody who has spanned multiple generations. Dennis Dodd of CBS, one of our friends, he announced that his retirement is coming up. He'll be done April 10th after the Final Four. He wrote his farewell column, but like Dennis, because he's still writing until the end of the Final Four.

But great conversation about just how all of this stuff has changed and evolved over the time that he was working in the business, which he was covering games when I was in elementary school. And so it was a lot of fun to talk to Dennis about that. We're going to hear that in a few minutes. But first, Ari, we've got to talk about our friends at Panini.

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and Romo Dunze is a pretty exciting young prospect in the NFL. That's a pretty sought after card, and I have it prudently put into a top loader and I really like it and I just like it's funny that I had to come face to face with that word because I struggle with it as you know if you've listened to this. Say it again say it again say it again say it again. Nucleus. Nucleus. There you go! Visit PaniniAmerica.net. Start collecting your favorite college and

NFL stars. I threw one out there on Friday, a Cooper Cup autograph that I'd pulled out of a pack a couple months ago. I said, where's Cooper Cup going to sign? And like within a second of me tweeting it out, he said yes to the Seahawks. So just keep your eye on PaniniAmerica.net because you may be able to pull a Cooper Cup Seahawks card very, very soon. But PaniniAmerica.net is where you go to start your collection. All right, Ari, let us talk to Dennis Dodd

about a wonderful career that spans decades. We are honored to be joined by our friend Dennis Dodd of CBS Sports who broke a bit of news last week. He's retiring, but in true Dennis Dodd fashion, wrote his farewell column and then wrote like six columns from the Big 12 basketball tournament over the next three days because that's how you rolled. And one, congratulations. And two, just phenomenal career for you.

Andy, thanks. Yeah, it was time. 27, I think my biggest accomplishment in this profession, in journalism, was 27 years at one place, because we all know how temporary sometimes this is, this profession is. And earlier in my career, I'd been like a typhoid Mary. I, let's see, I closed the St. Louis Sun.

I closed the national. There's a magazine I worked for that I closed. And I like, nobody wanted to touch me. So when I got this job in 1998, I was thankful beyond belief. Forget not, back then, it was really weird not holding something in your hand and seeing your byline, but when the checks started coming in that that quickly

dispelled that feeling. Well, Dennis, I want to say this too, cause. You know, I'm still kind of at the beginning to middle tier. Part of my career, but like every single time I've ever gone to a national event, you're there like you're like a fixture of like,

oh, Dennis is here like that. That is like comforting to know I'm in the right place. And I just wanted to congratulate you too on making it to retirement. Because like that's the dream for all of us, right? Like to to be at the same place or to be in this profession for as many years you were covering the events that you did, being around the people that you were and telling the stories that you were able to do. Like that's the dream. That's why we're here, right? So congratulations on getting there. I appreciate that.

I think it was Woody Allen once said in Annie Hall, 85% of life is just showing up. So that's my advice. Well, you're being modest though. Cause for those who don't know, we have a joke among us about Dennis that he's got a chip in the back of his head that just makes him write stories and nobody can write faster or in more volume than Dennis and it's just like every one of them is

relevant and matters and that's I it's it's one of those things that like every time I think I'm working hard I look at your page and I'm like, uh oh, no, no, gotta work a little harder. I don't know, I don't know about faster. You're talking to a guy who's been locked in three stadiums because he took so long. I put that in that column just because it was so, so stupid and dumb. I got locked in Bryant-Denny Stadium twice. Yeah, the second time's on you though. Oh, no, no second time's on you though. Oh yeah, that's true. No, no, I. It was on me.

Me and Chris Lowe have closed down Brian Denny a couple times and they are shooing you out of there. Yeah, they definitely are. In the second CFP game in whenever that was, no, second BCS game, I'm sorry. This goes back, I think it was 99 or 2000. It was in Hard Rock or what was then I guess whatever it was back then and I was the last one out and I literally climbed a 12-foot fence with my backpack on to get out because there was no other way and a cop saw me and stopped and picked me up and helped me find my car because

you guys know this that that parking lot there so symmetrical that you can't say I parked over there yeah you don't know it's endless yes and so it it took a while and I found it my head hit the pillow at 5 a.m for the 8 a. AM press conference and I did show up for that. Well, you know, if that was me, Andy, I would just have had to sleep at Hard Rock because I could not traverse a 12-foot fence or without breaking my ankle or my computer or both. That's the other thing is Dennis is, you know, not the typical pot-bellied sports writer. Like Dennis stayed in shape the entire time. So he, of all of us, he's probably the one who could scale a 12 foot fence.

Bro, like you, Andy, like you, you're the man. Well, okay, I gotta ask you about this. I saw this in your farewell column. You interviewed Brian Bosworth in his dorm room. So, this was the 80s Oklahoma. He had, had he taken out the t-shirt, the national corrupt. What it was national West Virginia. I thought of that today with West Virginia was national communist against athletes. And it was his homemade t-shirt that he wore on the sidelines at the Orange Bowl after getting popped for steroids.

And he, I'll just go on about him. He, you know, this is 84, 85, and he was just becoming the boss. And you guys think about this, this could never happen today. You could just, you couldn't just pop into a Chedur or Sanders apartment and just kick it around for an hour. But Kenny Mossman, I think Kenny Mossman was the old SID then, I think he was the one who worked it out and he just, yeah, just go meet him over there. And it was a dorm room. I mean, he had like a rebel flag before that meant something really, really bad. A few beer cans on the floor and he just, he was very open.

I mean, look, it was 40 years ago. I'm not gonna pretend like I remember everything. But the best story is when he got elected finally to the college football hall of fame, because he was, he was not, he did not get in because of the way things ended, I think, for a long, long time. And he never thought he would, frankly.

He was bawling on the phone to me and I called him for a story because it was newsworthy, very newsworthy at the time. And it was really emotional and really heartfelt. And then this is like two years ago, I was at Kansas State, Oklahoma game at Kansas State. And as one does, I went to the Oklahoma suite at halftime to see Joe Castiglione, you know, just to

pay respects and say hello. They're AD. And the only at that moment, the only person in the suite was Boz. And I came in, looked around, he looked at me and he said, Oh, hi, Dennis. And that was it. I walked down down and made my day. Yeah. The boss, he, at that point, he was much more than he was as an athlete at Oklahoma. I mean, we know what he is now, but he's the sheriff of fans. Well, that's what he is. Dennis, when you like look at it, it's like, I actually get kind of sad when I

hear those types of stories because of the access and how hard it would be to do that now. And I've never had a point in my career where you could just show up at a dorm room or have that type of access to the players. And I wonder, just as you've seen the sport evolve and where we are today in a very important spot in the evolution of college football, what are the things that stick out to you

about your journey through the sport, where we are today and how it's all kind of turning into or what it all is turning into? Yeah, that's a broad question. Yeah, very good question. It is. I mean, just starting with the access, I think because there are so many outlets that it's just overwhelms some of these schools in the default setting is to not do that and only to give access to rights holders.

And maybe that was the way it was going to be anyway, but, you know, back in the day, in the, you know, Big Eight Skyriders Tour, and I think they used to have one in the SEC and ACC too, but that was the idea. You would go to these campuses, spend a day, the coaches would sit down with you, the players would sit down with you. And the idea was we get what we want, we get our jobs, do our jobs, and these guys get de facto publicity for the program.

But that connection is seemingly lost. So it's, you know, I think being there matters. I'll go to events and not write or have gone just to get FaceTime with people. You know, I think that matters a lot when they see you around. You guys know that. When they see you around, it makes a big difference. But you know, that's been lost. The bane of my existence is 8 p.m. Eastern time starts and a lot of people, that's how they

grown up with. But there was, when I, back in my day, when I was a student at Missouri, every home game started at 1.30 in the afternoon, don't ask me why. That was pre, you know, pre CFA, that was pre Supreme Court decision, that was pre media rights. And that seemed about right. You know, you'd get out, go to the bars, have dinner and go back home. But now it's, you know, I now have people protesting against big noon games. I was at Penn State in November and they were actually there were actually

T-shirts in the bookstore saying high noon games suck. And I said, you've got to get that particular about game times. You're making up T-shirts. You know, you have to get up too early. Something's wrong with that. But no, it's you know,'s, it has changed a lot. And it hasn't, you know, it you guys have done this where I remember walking with Will Howard, this is again in

November, we'll have an interview room to the locker room, because they're separated at Penn State, and just getting a sense for how big this was, its native Pennsylvania guy winning at Penn State, that they didn't take him and it was so big to him. And that was a big part of the story, just got him for a couple of minutes. No, I mean, I guess the access is worse and sometimes it's just the same. It's kind of funny Andy, because like the access thing to me is so interesting. And like, I think that Dennis is probably right

that there's like so many of us now and so many different publications and stuff. It's kind of hard to decipher who's worthy of that access and whatnot, but the pushback that you get a lot of times when you ask for access has actually always been kind of puzzling to me because the more access you give, the more likely it is that the reporter will come to like the people that they're talking to and learn about the and like, I think that the exact

opposite of what we don't want to hit piece, it's like, you're more likely to get that with no access than you are with access. So, uh, you know, we don't have to turn this into an access discussion. Um, I do, I've always thought it was kind of strange of like the more you let us talk to these people and get a sense for them, the better the coverage for your institution will be. Not the, it's not the opposite.

Well, and I think on this beat, I've always told people covering the college beat that I think 85 to 90% of the time you're going to write or say something positive. You know, it's different than the pros where it's all about, I don't know, contracts and performance and everything else. It's becoming more about that in the NIL age. But that the other night, that kid, the Hawkins kid at Kansas State, I don't know if you guys saw it. Oh his eyes. He had a $2 million guaranteed contract and he didn't feel like he fulfilled it.

I thought it wasn't great. Now, I mean, I'm not gonna say it was great, but I thought that was a great piece of human theater that you gotta feel sympathy for this guy, even though he's making $2 million and didn't play as well as expected. So yeah, I always tell people that. I said, this is not gonna be a bad always tell people that. I said, this is, this is

not going to be a bad thing. And the other one I always preach is, you know, Johnny quarterback can, can change, can change signals at the line in front of 90,000 people, but he can't ask questions about himself for 10 minutes to, you know, a few slappy reporters. I've never gotten that. Well, and now everybody's got their own channels and their own, like, if you want to see Travis Hunter, you can see him on Twitch. So everybody's got their own way of doing it. It was interesting you talk about the Will Howard at Penn State going from the interview

room to the locker room. It's funny because those one minute, two minute little snatches of time where you get that person and it's by yourself, it's so much, so many stories have been written and been good because of that little mint right there. And I don't think people understand how important that mint is. And when you get it, you're just like,

please don't screw this up, please don't ask the wrong question. No, there, here's another quick one from that game. Um, I was standing outside the locker room again, Ohio state waiting for Ryan day to come out. Cause he had to do his, his, uh, radio show outside with headphones for some reason, the locker room is too small. And before he went on the air, he was on the phone in this big emotional conversation.

And then when he got done with his radio show, and again, I talked to him about the game one-on-one briefly, but I said, who is that? It's none of my business, but who is that? He said, that's my wife. And I said, she's not here. And he goes, oh no, she never comes to road games. This was before Michigan.

And in that moment, I understood exactly what he was saying. You know, no, she doesn't go to road games. Oh my God. So that's part of the Ryan Day story. Dennis, what? I know you got into the boss, into the calm a little bit and there were some other things. Like, when you look back at some of the, I guess, like, best moments, maybe not for you

personally, but some of the biggest moments that you were there to witness, what stands out? And, you know, I'm sure people who listen to the show will be familiar with what you say, but you've been to a lot of really big things. And I'm wondering, when you were looking back at your career, like, I was there, what moment was that? When USC was good, when they had it going in 2003, 2004, I guess, and 2005, that was different. That opened my eyes when, when USC is good, they're bigger than the Dodgers and bigger than the Lakers. Now, that doesn't happen very often, but we know how good they were. They were like a pro franchise in that city at the time. And I remember walking off

the field with, with liner, a quarterback off the field. And he had this look in his eye after they beat Notre Dame one time, like, you know, he'd just been hit with a two by four. And I think he realized what he had done. He had become this guy who owned LA, forget the world, forget college football. He owned LA. He was a, he was a celebrity as was Reggie Bush and a bunch of those guys. Um, that was one, and they were really, really good. The Texas USC game obviously was awesome. Um, the Hunter Renfro game with Clemson and Alabama, they scored with a second left,

which is at the time you're cursing fate because you're just trying to get your story. But some of those overtime games are really something. But it just, and then one day I woke up and I'd done all 16 BCS championship games. And I said, how did that ever happen? And I only missed two. I missed two championship games. And I said, how did that ever happen? I only missed two. I missed two championship games.

CFP, one year for COVID, and then CFP. My wife had health issues and she's fine now, thank God. But just doing 25 of those 27. Alabama, watching them ascend. In the SEC, I'll ask you guys, when did you know the SEC was a thing because when when Florida went? two out of three Okay, that's something then oh nine, Alabama

I'm just trying to remember when the SEC ruling the world became a thing I will tell you the moment it that whole thing started It was because I was covering Florida in 2006. And remember the whole 2006 season was, should Ohio State and Michigan just have a rematch? Because obviously nobody's anywhere near as good as Ohio State. Michigan played them super close. So it has to be, and back then,

the SEC was not considered the best conference. And the SEC people were complaining in the same way the big 10 people now complain about the SEC. And so, like I covered every Florida game that season. I remember before getting into the national championship game and going, I turned to Dave Curtis, who was covering them for the Orlando Central at the time. And I said, Dave, are we sure they should be the national title game?

I don't know. I'm not sure these guys are all that good. And then they go crush Ohio state and we're standing in front of Jarvis Moss's locker and Jarvis Mase is one of the edge rushers on that Florida team and he goes there were four or five teams in the SEC that were better than that Ohio State team. That is the moment the whole SEC thing started. It was that quote and then it spiraled out from there. Yeah that 06 team real quick that 06 Florida team only got in because the same day that they got in the USC dynasty ended a really mediocre UCLA team. Yeah. I think it was 13-6 or

13-10 beat USC in the Rose Bowl and I remember Steve McLean, God bless him, I realized what was about to happen with Florida and he got me urban on the phone after the game, you know, a three hours time difference on deadline to talk about. I can't remember exactly what urban said, but that's, you know, looking back, that's really when it happened. I mean, that that USC was never as good again. And the SEC just took off. Yeah. One of my favorite to Andy got just to my cause I was young. I was like high school going into college when this was happening. But when Florida won in 2006, that also like was a began a streak.

I think of like five or six consecutive sec champions, right? Cause then you had the issue won the following year. Then Florida won it again, then Alabama. And then that was cam and Newton in 2010. And like when I was first getting into the business as a professional was, you know, a year or so before Urban Meyer got hired at Ohio State. And the second he arrived in Columbus,

the man was obsessed with Alabama. All he ever talked about was catching Alabama, being Alabama, doing what Alabama did, turning the Big Ten into the SEC. And I think you could probably make a case, you know, that he helped lift the entire Big Ten into being competitive with them as a result of that attitude. But that was, it happened before I was in the business, but it certainly ignited to a place up north in the 2010 11s. Dennis, you bringing up the UCLA USC game in 06, reminds me of one of the funniest YouTube clips of all time.

So I was covering the Florida Arkansas SEC Championship game that day. Somebody posted a clip from the men's room at halftime, because apparently they had TVs in the men's room. And so the USC UCLA game ended, or they had the interception that effectively iced the game. It was during halftime of the SEC championship game. And so there's the YouTube clip

as you see all these guys just staring up at the TV. It's all these Florida fans and UCLA makes the interception and they're like, yeah. And they cheer for like 10 solid seconds. And then they all in unison turned to be amazing. You gotta do what you gotta do. Come on. That's what you're there for.

You were there to watch the game. But yeah, it was that that was I think you're right. And so you were at you were in California that day. Yeah, I was there because I think at the time, I think if a USC win, which was really assumed, would have gotten there again. And there was, God, I can't remember his name. There was a assistant coach at Florida whose son was a tight end at UCLA, Chuck something. Chuck Heater.

Yeah. It was Heater who helped beat UCLA and I think I got in the locker room, the USC locker room was open but I can't remember if UCLA was at the time but I got there and he played a minor role and I dug to the back of the locker room and talked to him about you know helping his dad and he just, yeah, he said something pithy, but it was fine. I guess this is an appropriate question to ask given Andy's location slash background, but you did have a day with Mike Leach in Key West, right? What was that like? It was, I think 2017 is after we'd gotten the Washington state job and I knew he'd gotten a place at Key West Where and near where Andy is right now?

And I just said hey well first going back as long as we're gonna tell this story right my first interaction with him Was when he was just coming up at Texas Tech and he pulled this stuff and you guys remember this Where to the to the player availability on Tuesday, he'd bring the punter and the long snapper. And it was clearly a slap at the media and who cares. And to the point that the Dallas morning news stopped covering them at to that point, they would not go out to West Texas if he was going to do that stuff on a weekly basis to cover the team. And so I either called him out in a column or somewhere, and he, he called me and, you know, he, we started in on each other. And I just told him what BS it was. And by the end of the phone call, we had started a relationship to the point that, like, we're not,

you don't want to ever say you're friends with a coach, but But you know, I think that was one of his redeeming qualities. He could get along with anybody To the point that I think the next year there was a guy named Andy you might remember Jimmy Macdowell And he was an old guy who ran this I don't know quasi legitimate thing called the All- America committee or something. And in a year, in one of the years, Mike Leach was coach of the year and I was sports writer of the year as we, but here's, here's the racket. You had to pay for your award. Um, you had to pay $150 and get the Dallas to accept it. And like idiots, the company paid for mine, I think, but, but like idiots, You have to pay $150 and get the Dallas to accept it.

And like idiots, the company paid for mine, I think, but like idiots, both of us showed up at this, I don't even know what it was, a reception, and Sharon was there, his wife, and we were the only ones there. So we just sat there and he told stories. I wish I would have had a recorder at the time. But anyway, the Key West thing.

So he said, yeah, come on down. I want to, I said, I want to spend a day for a story. So we meet for lunch and he was late. Sharon and him were late. I was kind of getting pissed. We ate, we ate outdoors. It rained. We were soaked. We didn't get out in time, get out of the rain in time. And so when we were done, he goes, Hey, you want to walk around? Yeah, sure. So this is about. Four o'clock in the afternoon, and he starts taking me on this walking tour of all his haunts, and we're going into bars and every place he'd go in, they'd go, Coach Mike, the pirate, you know, they'd recognize them right away. We went to what Tony helped me and he helped me out.

Captain Tony's, Captain Tony's, that's right, Tony Taracino, the mayor of Key West for a while. Yeah, they knew him that all these celebrity stools, you know, Urban Meyer had a stool reserved for him when he was in there. He showed me that. Went to Hemingway's house with all the cats, saw the cats, but he loved history. You guys remember that he wrote those great books with Bruce Feldman, great historian. And just giving it was like a walking tour with a with a tour guide. And so we get done and we may or may not have had a few adult beverages along the way. And it's midnight.

And I get back to the hotel and stick my key into the door. And I said out loud to myself what just happened. It was great. I mean I've never seen, I have to go back and find the story because it was, you know, you couldn't do that with every coach and the one you could was just blew it out of the water. It was great. I did that when he was in exile between Texas Tech and Washington State. And same thing, we were supposed to meet up at a certain time and it was like several hours later before we actually met up. And I was like, did I waste the company's money coming down here? But we ended up, we had dinner on Stock Island at this, there's a restaurant and there's

a place where all these, it's almost like people are moved, living in shipping containers, basically. But not in the way you think. And then he takes me to this place where, basically, anybody who's tried to float over from Cuba, whatever craft they attempted to float on is locked up behind this gate, just in a big yard. And so we're just, we're climbing the fence,

looking over, trying to figure out how everybody did these things. Like, cause it's just, all these are engineering marvels that made it to Key West. And so, but that same thing, and it ended up Captain Tony's, you know, Jimmy, Jimmy Buffett's studio, you walk past that, that's sitting right on the water.

But it was a lot of fun. And I hope we get some more coaches like him, Dennis. That's the thing. I feel like you got to experience in your career a lot more characters maybe than we, because you had you had peak Steve Spurrier, you had Mike Leach, you had a little different brand of coach than I think we're getting now.

He, I used to talk about Spurrier. I went down after his retirement and did a story on him and spent a lot of time with him in his office. He, I don't know if it was, I don't think it was really an office. They put him in a storage, not, I don't think it was really an office. They put them in a storage, not room, but it was storage area where they had stored every game program in perpetuity or something. But he had already told me, he's yeah, I'm on six of them. He had them all lined up, but this case was on the game program.

But he was something else. And he knew me after he retired. He remembered me. Some of those guys, Bobby Bowden, Andy, you probably remember this. If you don't, you know about it. On the day after home games, he would have a brunch. Breakfast with Bobby. Yeah. Breakfast with Bobby. Would have a brunch brunch and you could ask him anything in typical Bobby fashion. And he and he was great. I did that once and that was fantastic.

Yeah, I did a couple of those and you just like you sat there with him for an hour. He's like, did you get a muffin? Did you get some coffee? And he just holds court like whatever anybody wants to because it could be about the game but after a few minutes it wasn't about the game anymore right as Saban was if you could get in Saban's inner circle and I'm not going to pretend I was in his inner circle but I you know many times you know got into his office and talked to him and the best part was he the best part was he would talk to you off the record about players, about ball.

And he loved talking about ball. You can see how good he is on game day about that stuff. But he would talk about, you know, this guy stinks or this guy's great, or start railing on the NCAA. And then inevitably he would, at some point, everything he told you off the record, he would say during the season, because he couldn't help himself. But I thought he was great. The old SID at Alabama, this might have been 90 or 2007 or eight when he got the job. Do you guys remember this? Alabama went on probation. And it was, remember that it was the, God, something to do with books

for some scheme. It was a textbook thing because Alabama had one and Florida State had one in rapid succession. Yeah. And he was docked with victories. I mean, it's, I bet 90% of the people aren't even real. It's permanently taken off his record. And I wrote something to the FS, same old Alabama. Them and Auburn have the most NCA penalties in history. And the old SID called me, please hold, Coach Saban is on, wants to talk to you. I remember I was out riding my bike and I go, God, I wish I could record this. But in very, I guess he recognized this was national media. And in very calm terms,

he, you know, he explained off the record what had happened. And really, it was a nothing thing. Textbooks, come on, this wasn't a scam. And I was picking at low hanging fruit at the time, but I thought that was pretty special. There's a, there's got to be some sort of money laundering going on with textbooks, though, right? Like you can. Oh, that's what it was Dennis you put kids through college you you know exactly what we're talking about Dennis I want to ask you about The future like if you could be in charge until you're up until your retirement of college football and everything that you say goes. What is your opinion of the game now and what would you what would you put into place?

Yeah, I think somebody like like a Saban or a Rick Neuhuisel would be great as commissioner if they ever get to get to that stage. I think those guys are educated level-headed would be great. I think those guys are educated, level-headed, would be great. I think in two or three years, we're not even going to be talking about NIL or compensation because they'll either be collective bargaining and or they will be employees. On Saturdays, like they are now, no one will give a spit because that's one thing that has hung with me since NIL started. The Saturdays are absolutely the same. On Saturday, I don't care if Shador Sanders has a gold watch or drives a Maybach.

I just want to see if he can beat USC. I want to see Travis Hunter who's like, you know, next to Barry Sanders in my time, the second best college player I've seen because of what he could do on both sides of the ball. And I think we're there now. I think it's nice to write about these stories and hold people accountable and see where this goes. And there's going to be a lot of money involved. But I think on Saturdays and in basketball as well, it'll still be the same. Oklahoma plays Texas. Somebody's still wearing those jerseys, there's just going

to be so much hate there that there isn't now, you're not going to be worried about what they're being paid. So yeah, I do think that's where it's headed. I think that, and I do think there's going to be some consolidation with the top whatever, whatever the Super League thing is, even if it's called a Super League, top top 80 70, because now we had consolidation of conferences. The next thing is Alabama is going to wake up one day and say, Why is Vanderbilt making the same money as we do? So then it's going to come come down to that.

Yeah, so I know we're talking about the future, but you just mentioned something and I got to ask you this. You saw Barry Sanders play in person at Oklahoma State, can you just tell us what that looked? Cause I was in elementary school, I saw him on TV, but I can only imagine because I just don't know that I've ever seen a person who would, who could do the same thing to NFL players

that he did to college players. What did it look like at Oklahoma State in person? Well, I was there, what did he win, 88? Yeah. He was 88. 88, Oklahoma State played at Nebraska. Nebraska was at the top of their game. After one quarter, it was 42 to nothing Nebraska. You know, they had no defense, they just run them out of the yard. But at the end of the game, I think the final was 6342 or something Nebraska. The story was Barry Sanders who had run for 214 yards against Nebraska's defense. I mean, that literally was the number one story.

Wasn't the Nebraska put up 60 on Oklahoma State, which ended up winning 10 games that year. It was what he had done in the belly of the beast in Lincoln that no one seldom had ever seen. And that's when I knew like he was a special player, didn't take himself out of the game. Again, how many games have you seen? It was 42 to nothing at the end of the first quarter.

And I think it was 28 to nothing 10 minutes in. And he was the story to see what he did. And if they counted his yards from the holiday bowl that year against against Wyoming, it would have even been more. I've never seen anybody be able to change directions like that. Walter Payton was close. I'm trying to think who else was close like that, but he's, he's the most amazing player I've ever seen in college.

Who else was in that list? Uh, that you've seen person Travis Hunter. Bos was on there. I'm trying. Now you're, uh, pinning me down because I did that. Yeah, I did one of those during the season. Um, uh, the Nebraska defensive end who, oh, and Damican Sioux, he could, and there've been a lot of guys like him

off the edge, but he could basically do whatever he wanted on every snap, so he had to game plan around him. I'm trying to think some of the quarterbacks. Tebow was on there, and Cam Newton was on there. Both those guys did things that were just otherworldly. But yeah, I'm trying to I can I can find it if we talk long enough on here. Yeah, I saw Kim Newton in person for the first time in my life yesterday. And I was blown away by what I saw there. In terms of just physical specimen. I've never seen a human

being shaped like that before. Yeah. No, he was a tight end who could have played. He could have played tight end. OK, here it is. I don't want to drag things out, but now I'm curious myself. Tebow, Travis Hunter was second. Barry Sanders first, going down the list. Tebow, three, and Domakinsue, four. Barry Sanders first going down the list, Thibaut three and Duncan Sue for Reggie Bush, Cam Newton, Brian Bosworth.

And again, these are the only guys I've seen. Ed Reed was amazing. Tyran Matthew loved his game. Then Kellen Winslow, the tight end at Missouri, who man, it's obviously alma mater bias, but there'd be no Travis Kelsey or Rob Gronkowski without him, because back in that day, nobody utilized the tight end like Missouri did because of his pass catching skills. So the other piece of this, and you're not actually retiring until April 10th,

so you're going through the Final Four here. So you've covered all these NCAA basketball tournaments too. So we got March Madness starting this week. I got to ask you, what are your favorite moments from the basketball tournament that you've covered? My first one as a fan, this was as a fan, my first final four in tournament was in 86 when I think Duke won, Kansas was there. 83, I was at that epic final four in Albuquerque where North Carolina State won. And I was there as a fan, I was there with friends and I just remember how Valvano had taken over the town. Like there were people, he was in a restaurant eating

and there were people lined up outside, not to eat, but to see Jim Valvano in the flat. And I remember the SI story, Alexander Wolf might've written it, it was one of the best pieces he ever wrote. He was dancing, he was literally dancing on tables. He was such an outsized figure that, that to me, that's when that became the biggest, maybe the biggest sporting events and final four

because and because of how it happened. I like for years I wrote stories about, well, it'll never stop the never top Houston Louisville. In that semi final, they just went up and down the floor and the doctors of Dunk were going at it. The athleticism was incredible. But it's the little things. One year, 2016 or 17, last game of the night, last game of the entire tournament on that Thursday or Friday, I think. And Texas A&M stormed back against Northern Iowa. How was that game? Oklahoma City.

Down 12 with 35 seconds left to tie and then win and double overtime. And Northern Iowa. I was at that game. Oklahoma City. Yeah, bounce ball with 35 seconds left to tie and then win and double overtime. And Northern Iowa, to get to the second round, had beaten Texas with a half point. On a half point buzzer beater. I believe, yeah. Yeah. And so it was. Yeah. I've never, never been in a situation where I'm on press road, Dennis.

I don't know if you felt the same way watching that happen. Or I just wanted to yell to the Northern Iowa players like, just throw the ball out of bounds that the other way. Exactly. Make them make them have to go the whole court. Mario child, Mario Chalmers and oh, wait, hitting the game time shot. Gary Parrish, I was sitting next to Gary Parrish and he, he stood up like, see these NBA players do this and hold everybody back when somebody dunks.

He held everybody back when that happened. Oh gosh, it was, I'm trying to remember just a couple of years ago, but it was, it's been amazing. The tournament changes you. It's like a hike or a slog that you get through and you look back and go, yeah, I can't believe this just happened. And I'll miss it, I'll miss the heck out of it. Well, Dennis, we ask everybody we interview this and I don't think we've asked a reporter this yet. So I'm excited to hear the answer to this.

What is your either one rule for life or your kind of a few key rules for life? For life. That's way too deep. That's philosophical. Don't take things too seriously. Let the easy stuff go. The hard stuff will figure out yourself.

Remember where you came from, because that's what I'm really missing or going to miss right now, my friends and colleagues like you guys, moving on to retirement. And just take care of your own. I tried never to take this too seriously. I didn't wanna be that guy

who was always complaining about things, but that's what sports writers do, right? That's all we do is complain. Well, what do you do? You try not to do that. And I look, I will say this, this was a few years ago and I can't, maybe about 10 years ago,

where people, very powerful people started taking my calls. I would call them and they would return their calls. And I can't explain that other than, again, I'd been around a while. The CBS label was on there. And I thought that was pretty cool. And I did value those relationships. I, I did get a lot of texts from coaches when I announced my retirement. I wasn't expecting that necessarily, but Gene Chizik reached out from Nepal. Gene Chizik was on vacation. And I didn't expect Gene Chizik to say anything. He said, we're gonna miss you, thanks a lot.

Gus, Gus reached out, Mario, there's a couple of others. I think that was special that they still remember. That was cool. So for those who don't know, on the National College football beat for a while, we all kind of went to the same game every week. This is probably about a 10 year period of this. So we got to know each other's restaurant preferences

and orders very well. Dennis, when I see you again, I'm taking you to P.F. Chang's for a Pinot Grigio. Yes, yes, I will take that. I'm taking you to P.F. Chang's for Pinot Grigio. Yes. Yes. I will take that. I will take that in a heartbeat. P.F. Chang's is right up there with the best.

I have to ask this one thing, Andy. Go for it. Dennis, when you were younger and starting your career, what did you view or want for your retirement? Where are you going to be, what did you view or want for your retirement? Where are you going to be and what are you going to do? What are you going to be and what are you going to do? Yeah, no, I'm just, I'm going to keep my hand in it and maybe just take projects as they come along without deadlines, you know, stuff like some freelance, whatever. I'm going to learn how to play golf better, which is inevitable because it can't get any worse. My wife and I, my

wife and I are going to travel. So I've been asking, you know, people that are retired for advice, I asked Bob Bolesby any advice he said, he said, pick pick 10 things you're going to do every week and only do one of them a day. They would just say find stuff to do but I love the workout. I love to travel. I think I'll miss it. Like right now I'll miss this. I'll miss Saturdays but when I'm sitting on my couch at 11 o'clock at night on Saturday with a beer in my hand I sure as hell won't miss it. I'll just be watching their wrap up shows and go to bed. Yeah. Not on that

one. Well, that's the way to do it. You've spent more time with Andy over the years than me, but I will say we'll miss this having you around. I appreciate that guys. I'll miss you guys too. And our paths will cross again, I'm sure. Yeah. We'll just be bugging you from games. We'll just you guys too. And our paths will cross again, I'm sure. Yeah. We'll just be bugging you from games. We'll just text you and bother you and be like,

Hey Dennis, can you, any column ideas? Words on this thing? Yeah. Yeah. I know you have four column ideas right now. Cause you, if you were here, you'd be writing all four. So you got an angle on this? Exactly.

Dennis, thank you so much. Guys. It's a, it's an honor for you guys reaching out. I appreciate it. And I'll miss you. you so much. Guys, it's an honor for you guys reaching out. I appreciate it and I'll miss you. Thanks so much. You guys do a great job, by the way. Thank you. Thank you.

Appreciate it. All right. That was Dennis Dodd. He's the best. He realized when we finished the interview that he forgot to tell the stories about the three different times he got pepper sprayed covering college football games. And he only said three different times. He said it was Michigan Ohio State. Pepper sprayed in football. I don't know if he's been pepper sprayed for any other reason in his life, but I will say now that Dennis

is not here, I'm gonna miss seeing his face around. Yeah, he's the best. Hopefully we'll be blessed with the same ending to ours. But yeah, he's the best. Alright, Ari. We got a big show tomorrow. James Fletcher III, on three's resident bracketologist, is going to help us get ready for the NCAA tournament. We're also going to find out, is he getting suspended in West Virginia? Is he going to have to go to West Virginia to defend his bracketology? Because, well, he wouldn't be defending it.

He had West Virginia in, did not have Xavier in. I believe that's the only team he missed in the whole field of 68. So maybe there is a conspiracy. We'll talk to James about that tomorrow. We'll talk to you tomorrow too.