Andy & Ari On3 - What NCAA penalties will Michigan and Sherrone Moore face? Tennessee to Adidas | Washington’s Jedd Fisch Joins | Arizona State’s Kenny Dillingham joins | Sonny Styles expects Ohio State in the CFP

Episode Date: August 14, 2025

It's a jam packed Thursday show, as news was announced that Michigan will receive a ruling on Friday from the NCAA in the Connor Stalions case. What kind of punishments will Michigan's football program face? Will Sherrone Moore be suspended - and for how many games? How much power does the NCAA even have these days? Andy breaks it all down before the news drop on Friday. (0:00-12:30) Intro: Michigan to receive ruling from NCAA(12:31-23:42) Tennessee & Adidas reuniting(23:43-24:59) Rhoback(25:00-31:08) Are Tennessee fans happy with Adidas?(31:09-33:27) Previewing Washington in Jedd Fisch's 2nd Season(33:28-48:30) Jedd Fisch Joins(48:31-49:38) Jedd Fisch's rules for life(49:39-55:05) Previewing Kenny Dillingham at Arizona State(55:06-59:13) Criticizing Coach's Decisions(59:14-1:09:14) Kenny Dillingham Joins(1:09:15-1:11:29) Wrapping up ASU(1:11:30-1:12:58) Previewing Ohio State and Sonny Styles(1:12:59-1:20:00) Sonny Styles Joins(1:20:01-1:22:02) Conclusion: Dear Andy & Ari tomorrow! Next, Andy & Ari go in depth on the announcement that Tennessee is going back to Adidas in a new apparel deal, annually paying Tennessee roughly $20 million. What do fans think of this? Is this the best move to make in Knoxville? Let us know your thoughts in the comments of today's show. Up in Seattle, Jedd Fisch is preparing for a big season with the Washington Huskies. Entering the 2nd year in the Big Ten and Fisch's tenure, the Huskies are excited for this season with a young quarterback in Demond Williams Jr. Can the Huskies make a splash this season? Later, we stay on the west coast, but we head down to Phoenix where Kenny Dillingham has rejuvenated life into the Arizona State Sun Devils program. Coming off a CFP berth in the first 12-team format last season, ASU returns veteran QB Sam Leavitt and WR Jordyn Tyson. Can the Sun Devils claim the Big 12 title again this season? To close, we visit the reigning national champions, Ohio State. While the focus is upon next season, the same goal is in place: win a national title. Watch here as Sonny Styles joins Andy & Ari to discuss his expectations in Columbus ahead of the highly anticipated season. It's a Dear Andy & Ari show tomorrow!Submit your questions to: [e-mail]@on3.com Watch our show on YouTube! https://youtu.be/kx1jVUrWt8k Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari WassermanProducer: River Bailey Interested in partnering with the show? Email [e-mail]

Welcome to Andy and Ari on three. Ari will be here later in the show, but we got to talk about what's coming down on Friday. The big news on Thursday is that there will be news on Friday regarding the Conner Stallion sign stealing scandal at Michigan. The NCAA Committee on Infractions is expected to release its findings and its punishments for Michigan on Friday. This is obviously probably a bigger concern. concern to Michigan, to Ohio State fans who obviously are very upset about this whole thing and have been for two years. Michigan State fans also very upset about this thing, have

been for two years. I think the wider college football world has just looked at as more of a curiosity, but I am very interested for a lot of reasons. One, because one, it's, one, it's Michigan, two, this involved in national championship team. Three, it's one of the rare NCAA cases where it wasn't the NCAA enforcement staff trying to keep players from getting money, which is what most of these have been. This was a genuine fair play kind of case. And they didn't actually have a ton of those.

You think about through the years, they've had to deal some point shaving type things, but most of those are open and shut. The players were kicked out, and a lot of times the FBI did the hard work on those. So this is a very unusual situation. And, of course, it involves Jim Harbaugh. The Connor Stallions thing remains one of the weirder situations in college football history.

So what's going to happen? I think that's the biggest question is what penalties will Michigan the school face? What penalties will Sharon Moore face? There's two things at play here. So we'll start with Michigan the school. They could give Michigan a postseason ban. That is one thing that the committee could. hand down. If that were to happen, Michigan will appeal it. And Michigan, if it lost that

appeal, probably would sue the NCAA at that point. This is, they have pretty much promised to fight that tooth and nail and ensure that they do not get a postseason ban at any point. So if that were to come down, it would not mean that this year's Michigan team is banned from the postseason because basically the appeal would carry through and then we'd see what happened with the appeal. But again, if they lost that appeal, they're taking that to court. So I'm not sure you're going to see that. I think if you look at the most recent high profile case with Tennessee with the Jeremy Pruitt stuff, they basically said, hey, NCAA, we'll pay a giant fine here. We're happy to pay a giant fine. I think Michigan's probably going to do that too. And I know if you're an Ohio

state fan, you're sitting there going, well, that doesn't do anything. They've got tons of money. They're just going to throw a bunch of money at the problem. The Michigan fans who always joked about firing the money cannon once Michigan was finally allowed to pay players. Well, this is where the money canon could be put to very good use if you have to pay a giant fine. The fact of the matter is in this world, in this version of NCAA land, there's really not much they can do that will hinder Michigan's ability to stock its roster. That used to be what a lot of the punishments were about. is we're going to take this many scholarships away. We're going to take this many official visits away.

We're going to take this many evaluation days away in recruiting. That's just not going to happen anymore because it wouldn't matter. A lot of your recruiting is based on how much you can pay. They can't change how much Michigan can pay because that's governed by the House versus the NCAA settlement. So they don't even have the power to do that. You could take away scholarships, but again, that's a problem. you can solve with money.

You just find some NIL deals, suddenly guys aren't paying tuition or their tuition's covered. Like, all of the old stuff really doesn't work anymore. So really what they've got is a large fine and probably a hefty punishment for Jim Harbaugh, which again doesn't matter because he's now the coach of the Los Angeles Chargers.

He's not coming back to college football. So you can punish him. You could give, Jim Harbaugh, a 40-year show cause, and it wouldn't matter because he ain't coming back to college football. But they could say, hey, we handed down this very heavy penalty against the head coach, and we have this head coach responsibility legislation, and that is as much as we could do. Connor Stallions is going to get a huge penalty.

Connor Stallions is never going to work in college football again anyway, but he's going to get a huge penalty. I don't know what they're getting. I'm telling you right now he'll get that. more interesting is what happens to sharon more the current head coach because he got roped into this thing too so when all this stuff went down charon moore deleted a string of messages between himself and connor stallions on his cell phone if you've ever tried to delete messages on your cell phone you know this is a two-step process if you actually want them to not be on your phone anymore. So when it came down that the Michigan coaches needed to preserve all their

communications, this is particularly with Connor Stallions, he realized he had deleted those messages, but he also realized he had not taken the second step, which is you go to the trash and permanently delete. They were still on there. So when Sharon Moore gave his phone to the NCAA, all of those messages were there for the NCAA enforcement staff to look at. If there'd been a smoking gun type message, like, hey, Connor, can you give me these signs for this game? Believe me, the NCAA would have leaked it by now. So I don't think there's a smoking gun. But just the act of deleting him is grounds for the NCAA to slap him with failure to cooperate.

So the question is, what does that mean? Michigan tried to negotiate a suspension for Soron Moore before their committee on infractions hearing. And basically what Michigan handed Ford to the committee to consider was this. Two-game suspension, but not the first two games, because they want him coaching against Oklahoma, his alma mater in game two. So he would coach against New Mexico and Oklahoma. The suspension would begin against Central Michigan, which, yes, is the most hilarious team that it could possibly begin against because, remember, Central Michigan was the team that

let Connor Stallions on its sideline opening night, 2023, and he was there in sunglasses and trying to steal Michigan State signs, I guess, to help Central Michigan, I think. Then Sharon Moore would be out for the Michigan Big Ten opener against Nebraska. Then there would be an open date, and they'd play Wisconsin, and he'd be back. That is what they offered. It is unclear if that's what the committee will accept. it was not necessarily expected to be accepted when it was offered. So the committee could try to tack more games on.

If they do, I suspect Cheron Moore will fight that. I suspect he will still serve the Central Michigan and Nebraska suspension and then fight anything additional, which would push it probably to another season. So we'll see what happens. Maybe there's a scenario where there's a third ad and they're like, hey, we just don't want to deal with this anymore. Let's just serve the third and be done. But if it's more than that, I'm guessing they fight, but they still serve these two, because that way you can kind of split it up if you ultimately have to serve them later.

We'll see, though. I'm not sure there's anything that's going to satisfy the mad Ohio State fans because they want a postseason ban, they want victories vacated, they want national title stripped. I don't think that's going to happen. I really don't. I've been wrong before, but I do not think that's going to happen in this case. One, because Michigan would immediately appeal, and if they lost the appeal, they would sue. And I don't think the NCAA wants a lawsuit from Michigan right now.

The NCAA enforcement staff is already neutered pretty much to the nth degree. And the thing we need to ask about this after this case is, is there really even a need for it anymore? Remember, the conferences started this CSC, which is going to police third-party payments in the NIL space and police whether, you know, people are trying to circumvent the rev share cap with third-party NIL deals. That group is probably going to be the one that has a little more power and a little more power to levy actual punishments and power to do something. it may be that the days of NCAA enforcement being the boogeyman are just over. It's not like 1987 when SMU gets the death penalty. It's not like 2010, which, by the way, five years after Reggie Bush stopped playing, USC finally gets hit with massive scholarship reductions in the Reggie Bush case.

Part of the reason is stuff like that happened, like the Reggie Bush case, five years later, USC gets kneecapped, Bush is gone, every coach that was there is already gone, and all of a sudden, Lane Kiffin's the one dealing with that, and players who were in middle school are dealing with the results of that. It's part of the reason everybody hates the NCAA. So they never had a good mechanism for punishing people. And I think that's part of the issue here.

I think that's why trust in them eroded. It's why people dislike them now. and it's probably why this is probably the last gasp case for NCAA enforcement. Now, we'll see whether they try to show their teeth one more time, or do they just kind of go quietly into the night? Because at this point, that version is gone. The people working there probably already starting to look for other jobs, I just don't know what it would serve them to really try to slap Michigan with a bunch of stuff

because, again, Michigan's going to appeal. If they don't win the appeal, they're going to sue. So you don't really want to face that lawsuit. One of the things that NCAA enforcement always feared was going to a real court of law and then having their enforcement process sort of laid bare because it's it's not like the judicial process in criminal cases. It's not like the real American court system where you've got to have real evidence. And a lot of the stuff that they did was pretty shaky. So this is why people don't trust them. And I don't think people are going to

be particularly unhappy to see them fade away. But they're going to be fading away probably shortly after this one. The question is, how much longer does this one have? Does it have a tail? Do they, does the Committee on Infractions impose penalties that cause this to stretch longer? Or do they just say, you know what? There's nothing we can really do here. We're done with this thing.

We will find out on Friday. We have a big, big show for you today. Tennessee is leaving Nike for Adidas. I don't think the fans are real happy about that. But I think the athletic department and its bank account is thrilled about that. We also have great interview with Washington head coach Jed Fish, another great interview with Arizona State head coach Kennedy Dillingham, and yet another great interview with Ohio State linebacker, Sunny Stiles.

What a day ahead. So let's get started. We'll bring back Ari and let's talk Tennessee. and Adidas. The big news in college football heading into Thursday morning was the Wednesday

late Wednesday drop. Tennessee is headed back to Adidas after being a Nike school for 12 years. They will head back to Adidas after this next season. So they'll order Nike this season and they're back to Adidas. They're going to make a lot more money.

So the Nike deal between products, in cash was about 5 million bucks a year. The Adidas one is about 20 million bucks a year, reportedly. And probably that also helps go to players in terms of revenue sharing because that just increases revenue period. But also, Adidas has been pretty aggressive in signing college football players to NIL deals. And I would imagine Adidas would like them to go to schools that where Adidas. Now, they don't all do that because Jeremiah Smith's an Adidas guy and he plays at a Nike school. But this is an interesting one because I've seen a lot of pushback from Tennessee fans who don't want three stripes. They want that swoosh.

Andy. On a scale from 1 to 10, how aggressive can I be right now? You can be as a great. I don't think Adidas is ever going to sign up to sponsor us. So I think if you want to go scorched earth and bring up some of the uglier Adidas uniforms throughout history, you go right ahead. How many uniforms have they messed up, like off the top of your head? Remember when Michigan was in Adidas school, how awful those jerseys were? They didn't have access to maize, which is one of the school colors because Nike had maize. The design of the uniforms look like an infant.

did it. It was awful. And I don't know. So here's my take on this. If you're the school in the world of RevShare, you have to bolster your pockets any way that you can, right? Like, you have to do that. It makes sense. You're not going to drag Tennessee for doing it because Tennessee wants to, you know, make their pockets as thick as possible because, as you said, a healthier wallet means a healthier roster. And it might not go directly to it. But I think in general, you know, being well-rounded financially is a good thing. But the worst part about this, and everybody always talks about the uniforms are going to suck or how many uniforms are they messed up in the past, but the thing that always seems to get

lost in the mix of the uniform sponsorship conversation is the number one thing that impacts fans, which is it's not just what Tennessee's uniforms look like on Saturdays, it's all the official gear that the people that like Tennessee have to buy and like let's be honest it's a fact that adidas is not nearly as clean as Nike period like i don't know about you guys do you even own any like adidas like non-loged things like i actually was looking at some some shoes today and i was looking at some sambas because i like the adida samba it's a cool shoe i've owned them before but yeah most of my shoes are nikes and and most of my apparel is like you of course a lot of my apparel is roback which is a show sponsor so by the way

roback r hobac k code andy for 20% off your first purchase are we supposed to do this right now i don't know if we are we have a schedule roback sent me some joggers did you get the joggers the joggers are amazing. My God, I think they might be the most comfortable pants I've ever. I've worn the dinner. It's so good. I have, I have them in gray and navy now. Oh, it's no, yeah. But all my wearing pants. All my stuff my entire life has just been Nike for the most part. And hopefully Roeback will continue to change that. But socks are Nike. Shorts are Nike. Apparel shirts are Nike and like if you're a fan you know Nike's better than Adidas and now you have to go to your bookstore or your official team shop or go online and all of your Tennessee gear is going to be

Adidas and that's the big that's the biggest drawback of this whole thing and there might be some people in there they go you're crazy Nike sucks or whatever I don't know if there's a political reason to hate Nike right now I'm sure there is but like Nike's stuff has just been the best period and then also has a checkered history with the with the apparel and with the uniforms and I guess pun intended checkered checkerboard in zone at tennessee but adidas has put some some historically vaunted programs in some hideous uniforms uh river let's take a look at nebraska the one they made them wear a few years ago oh my god that is an abomination like whoever approved that uniform design should be fired and it's not even all the people in

And Nebraska were fired, so. It's not even the design, dude. They don't even fit right. Has there been, has anybody had a bigger car? Before you go on, you want to see a Michigan one? Yeah, please. That's a perfect segue. What the?

Dude, it looks like somebody had a bad day learning Photoshop. It's awful. It's truly utterly awful. But the thing I was going to say before you showed that is the perfect segue, you're talented. Has anybody had a bigger come up in the apparel world than Michigan fans? They went from the ugliest.

Jordan brand now. But now like Michigan's uniforms are, could you imagine Michigan won their national title wearing that? Like, I don't think they would have. I think they would have been so embarrassed when they ran out onto the field in some of those games. They were lost. Let me ask you this.

Do you believe in the look good, feel good, play good. Not exactly because if Adidas wants to pay me millions of dollars to wear Adidas, I will wear Adidas. I believe in look good, feel good, play good. I think that players,

it was a bad day in Tennessee's locker room. Guarantee it. Guarantee it. And Adidas has done some good, like the boosts, those ultra boosts that are great. I did own quite a few pairs of boosts. They are very comfortable. So they have some good shoes and they did a, you know,

before, you know, Kanye West went insane, like they had the easy, you know, partnership and they had some nice stuff. Like, they've done some things to keep their brand relevant. But like Adidas to me is always and will always be in my head, a soccer brand, like a European thing. Like people in Europe, you know, my mom, you know, is from Israel. I've been out there. Like, I've been in Europe a lot. Like, it's a very European Middle East. Like, that's their luxury. It's a German brand. Yeah. It's from Germany. Yeah. It's, you know, we don't need to get started on how it was founded but like let's just like go down the list of things that college football players want and i think it's nil deals and in apparel deals right like that's the number one thing for them

yeah i mean and it's not if if you get more money from tennessee now you will go to tennessee and where adidas and be happy with it i was actually coincidentally like in the group chat with my friends talking about this like two weeks ago before nil and before paychecks came directly to players, where do you think the apparel deal was on the list of priorities for recruits back in the old days? Incredibly high. Up three, right? Yeah.

Obviously, you can transcend that now. I'd wear anything. And that brings me to my number one question to you. And River, well, River's on Tennessee fan. Bring them up here and ask him, River, how do you feel about this? Do you want to buy their stuff now? Or are you depressed by this? I mean, I get the deal that you take with how much they put on the table.

Like, you cannot decline that in this era of football. I'm asking you, are you upset about it before? Yeah, are you? Yeah, yeah. And the thing is, like, none of your ball stuff is going to match what they wear now. None. I'd rather have a Nike polo, although get your rowback, Tennessee ones now. Oh, that's right.

Awesome. Roeback with the stadium collection. Oh, my, because they do have Tennessee. So you just get the Tennessee rowback stuff, and you had to worry about this. Yeah, I mean, everything. It just dropped this week. Yeah. Everything gear-wise as far as Tennessee and fandom is going down, I think.

Every aspect. As far as, like, what you would prefer as a fan, I think. Like, at this point, just give me new balance. I've been saying that. Everyone thinks I'm crazy, but give me new balance. Boston College uniforms look good. They really do. But, like, also, like, when I was in college, you got, you were a bunch younger than me, River.

When you were in college, like, I wore the Arizona Nike basketball basketball. basketball shorts to class like five times a week like that was like back when I was in school like everybody had the cat shorts um like it sucks okay it does okay we can admit it now let me ask you guys this and I want you to be up here too for this river okay buddy okay how much money would I have to write you for you to mess up your entire wardrobe but not feel good about what you wear in public every day this isn't a Nike's and Adidas thing how much would I have to paying you to have an ugly wardrobe. I would wear an ugly wardrobe for an extra, hmm, I would do it for, I'd say 100,000 a year.

Like that wouldn't be my sole source of income. It would an extra 100,000 a year to look back. And look, and look, I'm on video all the time. So I'd be choosing to look bad on video. Yeah, I would do that. It's like crappy stuff. That's all. Like, it's just, I actually.

for a big dude, like, has spent quite a bit of money on, like, clothes the last month or in the last year. And I'm extremely picky now that things are starting to fit me better than they did a year ago about the things that I buy. And my wife, and I'm sure Andy's wife is a lot like this, too, there's nothing my wife cares more about than what she's wearing and what she looks like. So, like, I know this has nothing to do with football, but I do think that there is a element of, like, oh, man, like the fan base has to not look as good as. they want to look and the players aren't going to feel as good about what they're wearing on Saturdays, which I think is a 1% impact on running out of the tunnel.

Like, I think people will think I'm crazy. And, you know, that's a normal trend here. I think if the players feel good about their uniforms or they think they look good and they get run out of that tunnel, there is a 1% or a 2% boost to the way they play the game. I think that look good, feel good, play good is real. And you don't have to agree with me, but I truly believe it. Well, they can also look good in their post games. And I've noticed this, actually, have you seen, we keep coming back to the Roeback thing, because they choose to sponsor us, and their stuff's awesome.

But have you seen some of the players and coaches wearing this stuff lately? It's awesome. So I mentioned Tennessee has Roeback stuff now. That's the Hezzy hoodie with the Power T on it. They also have a black one with an orange power tea on it. R-H-O-B-A-C-com. Code Andy 20% off your first order. I realize we've probably turned this into SponCon.

Are you like, this is, this has become a complete ad for Roeback. But seriously, Tennessee fans, if you have to, now you're, you're forced with the game day attire with the officially, you know, this is what the team wears stuff, if you have to get a brand that you probably don't prefer, go to Roeback and get the cool shit. Like, it looks good. Well, the thing that, I hate doing this because it feels like we're shelling and we're really not. rowback stuff is actually extremely comfortable

like that's the thing about it and like those hoodies and the joggers that I have are comfortable like there is if I had to pick between that rowback hoodie that you're showing on the screen right now and anything that Adidas makes I would take the rowback thing

a thousand times out of a thousand like it's not even a debate yeah so I think it's you know what this worst part about this whole thing is and I want you to hear me good here River I think you agree with me Tennessee's checkered end zones

they're apparel their color the power tea is like literally iconic it's iconic like it's like you don't want to it's like messing with that is like perfect already you know they it's been reported that the university will have a lot of creative control with the jerseys and how they look but could you imagine Tennessee's not going to let them Tennessee's not going to let them screw up the uniforms I don't think because yeah Tennessee's uniforms you know until they went to with the smoky grays and the Halloweens, they didn't really deviate much

from icy whites on the road. Yeah. You know, white lid, orange jersey, white pants at home. I think a lot of people are wanting the on the white away uniforms. They want the black outline around the numbers again, around the orange numbers.

So they want that. Al Wilson had that black outline. I think if it's good enough for Al Wilson, it's good enough for Joey Aguilar. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, you know, congratulations on collecting your bag, Tennessee, and congratulations to Apple shareholders today.

It's Dividend Day. But like, I'm just like, what are we doing? Okay, let me ask you this, Ari. If it helps you get better players, if one company is more aggressive about how many college football players assigned to NIL deals than another, is that an advantage in this day and age? Because these are the deals that will pass. The clearinghouse.

Everybody has been keenly aware of the Adidas involvement in the basketball stuff, right? Like, that's like, that's out there. They're clearly funneling players to Adita schools. There was a whole FBI case about it, yes. I think that you should explain, because you're better at this than I am, to the listeners, how exactly Adidas' sponsorship of Tennessee with their more aggressive approach will help them get better players. Like, how does that manifest specific? It's not something Tennessee can advertise,

but it is something that if Tennessee's best recruits happen to wind up with really nice Adidas deals, personally, which again, those will pass the clearinghouse because those are the type of people Adidas signs. It's not out of the ordinary. Can you sell, can Tennessee legally sell, hey you come here you can you have a better shot or you will get an adidas deal i don't know that they can up like the lines i don't know that they can expressly said but i mean none of the rules really matter at this

point right like i don't even think it matters if you can say it or not i think it's if it's implied and and if it's demonstrated if you know the next we'll see because again this doesn't start until next school year so two thousand 26 27 school year if you see guys getting deals and recruits see guys getting deals, they'll know. Like that sort of information travels very quickly. Yeah. And also,

who cares if you can or not? Forget the rules. No one's following them anyway. But this is one you could actually follow fairly easily within the rules. It's been long enough of this dancing back and forth. But again, as I mentioned before, Jeremiah Smith is an Adidas athlete. He plays for a Nike school.

He has to wear a Nike uniform. He has to wear Nike shoes when he plays for Ohio State. When he's photographed outside the football facility, he's wearing Adidas. But Adidas had to make sure they got in the Jeremiah Smith business early. Because when Jeremiah Smith gets the NFL, he can wear whatever cleats he wants. So can Jeremiah Smith not wear team sponsorship Ohio State gear to class? like how does that work whatever he wants they can't tell him what to wear to class yeah also you think you think he's got a lot of in-person classes you think he's got

mostly online classes of them I don't know his schedule he strikes me somebody who would like Air Jordans and that doesn't that doesn't but he's not well he can get he can wear our Jordans in the facility for sure because those are a Nike product but but if he went to Easton Town Center that Adidas, which pays him, probably would prefer he not be photographed on campus wearing Air Jordans. Okay. That's what I'm saying. Like, if he wants to go to Easton to get some payway and go to a movie and he's wearing Air Jordan 11s, does he get in trouble. Yeah, I would bet he does. Yeah. Like that's suck. He's getting paid to wear an adidas now. It's a big bag. Yeah. That would suck. And Adidas has always been pretty aggressive on this stuff. Like, Nike, is probably a little more selective in who they sign. Adidas is aggressive and pays and has

been aggressive and has paid. So that's kind of now they're doing it. Well, we've seen them do this with other programs, but this is kind of the blockbuster version of that. You know what? Kudos to Adidas too for knowing what people care about. I think Adidas has done a pretty good job of marketing itself and you know i guess when you when you come out of the biggest sport in the world you kind of learn some things they're a soccer company from germany like they've learned some things yeah but again if you're a tennessee fan and you are bummed about the adidas thing well good news your roback collection just dropped this week roback dot com r hobac k dot com Code Andy, 20% off your first purchase.

All right. We got to talk to some coaches. One of our favorites. We've had him on the show multiple times now, and he is so interesting to me. He went and revived your alma mater for a minute. For five minutes, yeah. It was good, though.

And then he went to Washington where there was a massive rebuild following a trip to the national title game. So Jedfish went into last season, and he told us last year, hey, this is going to to be a rebuild. This is this, this is not the same team. There's a lot of work to be done here. I think he feels like a lot of that work's been done now. Yeah. Yeah. You know, with Jed Fish, he's just the example. And I even think I brought this up to him in the interview, but like, coaches get hot and then they fall out of sight very quickly in the sport. Jed Fish was really hot

18 months ago and when you're starting to try to like look at at teams that check boxes this year teams with young exciting quarterbacks Washington check on Williams yeah Washington a team that has had reasonably high success in the recent past and has good players that come through there check teams that have really good you know profoundly good coaches who have rebuilt programs elsewhere check like if you're trying to like come up with reasons for to like teams this year, Washington is certainly one of them. I haven't forgotten it is. I haven't forgotten.

And it's one of those teams that you look at the schedule and you see where some of these teams have to play them, like Ohio State has to go to Washington in late September. That's going to be a tough game for Ohio State. Yeah. I'm telling you right now. Yeah. I mean, every, I'm, it's one of the stadiums I've ever been to and that I'm dying to go to.

Except, well, except for the active volcano thing, which we talked about on the show a few weeks ago. Do you know, like, and I don't know if people know this, and I don't know, the joke has already aired on the show before, right? Like Mount Rainier. We talked about it when we were going to Big Timiti days. Mount Rainier towers over Washington Stadium and it's an active volcano. Like, do you like going to Seattle or living in Seattle like every single day, you're like, she could blow at any moment. Like that would be a pretty big mind. You did ask Jedfish about this. So you didn't like it. Let's talk Washington football with Jedfish and let's talk geology with Jed Fish.

We are here with Washington head coach Jed Fish and back on the West Coast now. This is a little bit of a home game for you. The Seattle to Vegas flight, not too bad, right? Yeah, Seattle, Vegas, not too bad. Seattle in Indianapolis last year. That was a hike. So we're excited that it's here and be on the West Coast, not change the time, not change the clock.

It's good. Jed's a real friend of the program because when we post things, you're like what the hell or oh yeah right like i like getting the feedback he tells us when we mess up our rankings yeah well here's i'm going to give you a little a little treat uh then last week we were talking about teams that aren't being discussed enough nationally that could shock people and i thought was one of them so what do you think of that i can't believe you actually said that all right that's impressive that i'm a hater no i'm just saying that i appreciate you bringing that up

I think that, you know, I think we have a good team. I really do, and I'm not going to shy away from that. And we have now, we have 11 returning starters a year ago. We had won. We have a returning quarterback that I think is really talented. We got bigger. We got some good portal additions of starters and other programs that were power-for programs, not FCS programs from a year ago.

And it puts us in a good spot. You were very honest last year about what the rebuild entailed. Did it go faster than you thought it would? You know, I think we have to see how we play as a team. I feel like it was kind of what it was last year. I mean, you got caught up in a situation where I don't think anyone thought there was going to be that movement that late in the game, January 18th or so. And then how the dominoes fell and then trying to revamp and retool and rebuild. build and not really know who the guys are.

Yeah. Now we're in a good spot, so now we've got to roll. Jay, you have turned around another program recently, and year one to year two was the biggest job. Do you find yourself looking back at, here's how I felt in the summer of, you know, between year one and year two and how do you feel now? Like, are there parallels between like, yeah, we can do that again quickly from year one to year two? Yeah, you know, I think when we were in Tucson. It was, you know, year one was, and it was really, we were so far behind the eight ball in so many different areas. And one of the things that we did was we wanted to redo the facility and make changes. And we did the same thing at Washington. And now, you know, the construction's done. And we get about a $30 million revamp. And we put ourselves in a position to now be who we want to be. I'm hopeful that we have that same similar type jump. I don't know if it can be that good of a jump. But, uh, we'll We'll take it if we can do it. The difference is in Tucson, you had that class coming in, and they came in a year two.

You had DeMond last year and then decided to start him at the end of last year. He played really well against Oregon and Louis. Well, you didn't win either of those games, but it was very clear that this guy's the future. How valuable was that? Yeah, I mean, I think even we didn't win them, but, you know, it was 78% completion. He was eight touchdowns, one interception. It was like 10 yards per attempt. It was insane.

Yeah, his numbers were really through the roof, if you were to look at it. And then he came back and he just got bigger and stronger. And he's now up to 200 pounds. He was 179 pounds. His ability to understand what we're trying to get done. Jonah Coleman coming back. Denzel Boston coming back. You know, we didn't lose anyone in the portal on offense.

And we lost one starter on defense. And we replaced him with Takario Davis. Right. So we really didn't have any changes portal-wise. So I think that puts us in a great spot. And DeMond now is real comfortable with the receivers around them. Chad, you know how fickle sports media and sports disports is, you know, two years ago as you were going through a coaching search, change, whatever, you were one of the hottest. And then, you know, you're going through a build and then people lose track.

And it's not just you. It happens all the time with everybody. And it's like almost like people think you forgot how to. This is always the excuse for us leaving him off the top 25 coaches list. You know, you can go back and check tape, Jeff. And it's like, I didn't say, oh, the guy forgot how to coach, like, all of a sudden, you know, but do you have a sense of, like, I know that building Washington and winning games is obviously the number one goal. But when you're a coach, when you see lists and rankings and offseason discourse, do you have, like, a personal fire to be like, what the hell, man? And then, like, does that, like, drive you, or is it always players first, Washington first?

Yeah, I mean, I think I would be lying if I was to say I'm not externally motivated a little bit. I think we all play with a little chip on our shoulder. You know, you listen to Joe Burrow talking at the quarterback the other day, right? And he, you know, one of the quotes was, I'll always remember who didn't think I was good enough. And I would either, one, try to prove them wrong and two, you know, prove me right. So I feel the very same way. And I think that as we go through the process, you know, I remember when in 2021, Shane Beamer and I were ranked the two worst hires in college football.

Do you remember who wrote that? I don't, Ari. Oh, it wasn't me. I know. He does. He's being nice. But I, but you know, you remember those things and now, you know, I love watching Shane and do what he's doing. Oh, yeah.

Great. Yeah. And it's fun. That is always amazing to me because when they try to tell you to do best or worse, we can't do that. Because, one, you have no idea when somebody's coming in. into a job, especially you and Shane, good example. You had never been college head coaches before. How do you know that somebody's not going to be a good college head coach?

You have no clue, especially if you don't know these people. Oh, yeah. So, and the thing is, it's funny because knowing both of you, as I did before you got those jobs, I was like, actually, those guys probably have the skill sets to do this. And clearly, you did. So, yeah, well, we're just still, you know, we're still in year five, both of us going into year five. And I'm just excited about this team at Washington. I think we have a really good group of kids. I love the amount of kids that have come with us that I, you know, senior day this

year, you know, there's a lot of kids that I coach for four years at two plate, you know, two years, two years. And it's just cool to see it. Efecians Priceock and Jonah Coleman are both here with us. Yeah. And both those guys were class of 22 that you were referring to. And, you know, we had them for two years. And then they came here for two years. And it's just fun to watch you, growth. Takario Davis is not somebody that I think is getting his proper, too, in terms of just like alien-like traits and stuff.

Like, how good of a player is he in the second back half of your defense? And, like, can you contextualize how big of this to bring him in? Yeah, I mean, it was huge to get them. You know, Price Sox, 6-3, Ticario is 6-3, 6-3 and a half. So you've got now, your two corners are both 6-3, six-three and a half. You know, you look at them, walk on the field

together, and, you know, you want to play man coverage. You want people to try to, you know, throw it around them or over them. You know, it's very hard to do. So I think having those two guys make a huge difference in our secondary. Rishon Clark is a freshman that we recruited in Arizona that came with us when we got here to Washington, who's from Seattle. And he's going to play nickel for us. And it's going to be really good.

I was going to say, you're talking about, you know, great corners. Your defensive coordinator, Ryan Walters, it didn't work out at Purdue. The last time he was in Illinois, he had some pretty great corners, too. And that all worked out. I mean, one of them is in the first round. And how much is Ryan out of your defense? It's been great. It's been a great get for us.

I think it's our biggest off-season acquisition. You know, you look at what he did at Purdue, right? 97th in total defense goes to first. 107th in scoring goes to second, whatever it might have been. Five or six categories in the top five. And to have him with us now and coordinating and brought in Taylor Mays to coach, our safeties and Brian Odom to coach our linebackers and then kept everybody else that we've had since 2021 is pretty cool on defense. And I just think we're going to, these kids are going

to benefit, right? It was a top five pick, you know, two years ago for the Seahawks right around the corner. He's coached guys that have been drafted in the first round, second round, third round. It should really help our defense. Okay, we have you, Seattle resident on the show. Do you look like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't see. clips but we we talked yeah we talked about this i'm not kidding for 10 minutes on the show two days ago i did not see that are you i i because you're busy i understand but just preface it we were showing pictures of your stadium okay and i've never seen a game there in my career and i said that is probably number one there it is number one on stadiums i would love to go to because i heard it was

beautiful and then it like can i ask you this well so what i said i was telling him about the first time you fly in seattle and you look out the plane window and you look at the plane window and you you see about right here yeah go ahead and you see it from like your office or yes do you ever think about like how that's like an active volcano like does that ever like gone on you or ever think about it no that's never crossed my mind already is terrified that if we go over one of your games that it was an active volcano that mount rain here's going to interrupt while we're there i just didn't know if that's how normal people thought i'm like i want because i've never been to seattle it's one of the three remaining major cities and the country i've never been to and i'm like to people in

I don't think about that, like, on a day-to-day basis? No, I don't, I don't think so. I've never heard that until today. Okay, yeah, Google it. It's pretty terrifying. It apparently hasn't done anything in a thousand years. So I think we're good at time, but like you, and Andy said, like, the National Weather Service will give you a heads up if it starts. I mean, hopefully, what one would think?

I would think, I feel comfortable going back to Seattle and not. If we're in Husky Stadium, we just dive in Lake Washington, we're good. Yes. I don't know if that's how that lava works, though. it would have to get through the water we're fine or you don't know anything like how do you know how lava works that was a topic of conversation at dinner last night jed i don't know anything about anything really like it's like college football i think i know quite a bit about but even then that's limited um but like just we were playing trivia and i didn't know any answers like and i

just like it dawned on me like i don't have any general knowledge just stops right at college football yeah well listen as someone who remembers things that i shouldn't have any business remembering It just pushes out useful knowledge, or things that I need to know. So it's fine. Yeah, but you learned a lot in Jimmy Ray Stevens' offensive line rooms. Jimmy Ray Stevens, for those who don't know, former Florida offensive line coach, exactly how you to imagine if Thomas Magnum, if Magnum P.I had grown up in Pensacola and had a giant dip in his mouth.

That is the meeting room, the cherry skull from the meeting room, that smell will never leave me. That is a great description. I would do an impression of him evaluating our performance, but we would get canceled for it. Yeah, we can't do that, not in 2025. But we love you, Coach Steve. Yes, we do. Good people, Jimmy, Jimmy Ray and Regina Stevens. That's probably a pretty distinctive percent.

Cherry Skull? I didn't know they made cherry. I thought it was like winter green and all that. Oh, it exists. Maybe we'll do a bet this year. And if whoever's, sit Washington over under, whoever is right or wrong. Jet came up with one of the all-time great college football staffs, though. Some of the Steve Spurrier staffs of when you were in school were just tremendous human beings.

They were fun people. That's amazing. And it's the greatest credit, right, to that staff. Because you look at it, and I was, they all were together for solo. Yeah. From Jim Collins to Lawson Holland to Bob Sanders. That's right. I mean, you talk about some of the.

Broadway, who became a great head coach in the HBCUs, yes. Dwayne Dixon. Yeah, so, Dwayne Dixon, you know what he said, whatever day it is. Today, Wednesday, Wednesday, the best day of the week, great day to get better. That's every day. And then James Bates, the linebacker, who's now a famous painter, would say, best day of the week, great day to eat butter. It's a great stop. But I think about it.

Every time somebody tells me what day it is, I hear Dwayne Dixon in my head. Tuesday, best day of the week, great day to get better. It was the best. You know, Buddy Teabins was on that staff. He was, he was. May he rest in peace also. But one of the most special people I've been around. Giant Jimmy Buffett fan.

So smart. The head coach at Stanford, head coach at Dartmouth. You've gotten to work with such amazing people. You work with Jim Harbaugh. You work with Dave. Do you ever think, like, how blessed this coaching life has been that all these people, people have been put in your in your path yeah i do i actually have in my office that the the greatest privilege of my life is the coached with the greatest coaches of all time uh it's a quote that i have

in my office with a wall of all those guys um and it's just so special to have been around um everybody from coach spurrier on and um it hasn't stopped you know been surrounded by great assistant coaches and and head coaches and i'm real lucky you think that being a good coach you know from a personality standpoint, being weird, like, personally is, like a good thing. I mean, like, you like, that's not weird, though. I know, but I'm just asking you. I mean, they're all kind of weird, but yeah, like, or like, who's the most unique personality outside of football coaching tactics that you've been around and why?

Oh, man, I mean, uh, that's work for Steve Spurrier and Jim Harbaugh. I was going to say, yeah, I mean, I've worked for some. I would love to know what it would be like to go to lunch with Jim Harbaugh and not talk about football, like what that experience would be like. Well, you probably wouldn't not talk about football. Yeah. Jim is great. You know, it's so funny.

It's like what they, what you see a lot is really who they are. Like a lot of people, like the mic'd ups and the interviews are, you know, it's hard to hide who you are. Yeah. So like who you are is who you are. Now there's always, you know, Coach Belichick is a little bit more quiet in interviews than what he normally is like. Right.

But other than that, I mean, these guys are, everyone's really who they are. And we're all unique in our own way, I think. we all made our way were you ever on the patriot staff when belichick dressed up in a costume no i was there never had a Halloween part oh oh we were now we dressed up in zoom calls you know if he dressed up as the gorgeous we got it back then yeah no no he he did the pirate thing one year and no he he's a Halloween person he's got loves Halloween that's amazing all right while we've got jett here we do we have to ask in this because we ask most of our guests this unless we forget so i'm not going to forget

at what are your rules for life or do you have one main rule for life smile a lot god uh i learned out from coach burry he said say yes sir no certain smile a lot and you'll live a great life three simple rules i have three also never complain about free food never complain about free beer never skip like day and you will also have a happy life wow mine is don't eat at restaurants that specialize in multiple types of cuisine okay If they do fish and pizza or something, that's not a good thing. It's a good rule of life as well. I like the Steve Spruyer ones.

The Steve Spruyer one that he should do, because if you just go by how he lives his life, always be honest. Always be honest. Sometimes brutally so. How about? Man has never lied once in his life. How about what he wrote on the whiteboard before every game, have fun competing? There you go.

That's a good one in life, too. The only thing I remember is it's not your fun. fault, son. It's our fault for putting you in there. I've used that one a few times as well. Thank you so much. Thanks, guys. Appreciate you. All right. Okay, Ari. I don't think Jedfish

is too worried about volcanic eruptions. I think it's more eruptions of points. You know, the thing that I'll say to you, Jed, and I know you're probably in fall camp right now getting your team prepared, but you're an active participant listener to the show at times. You're keenly aware of our coaching lists and what we say about you and what we think in columns we've written i've

talked to you a lot you know we've spoken on the phone before and after you got to arizona come on throw me a bone and have some fun with me with the mount rainier thing like come on like what are we doing like you know like throw me a bone it's a podcast so we go from a coach who was in gainsville at the university of florida same time i was a student that we were both students at the University of Florida at the same time to a guy who grew up in the same hometown as Ari Wasterman at the same time. They're basically the same age. Kenny Dillingham, the Arizona State coach. And is it weird seeing a guy who essentially you two had almost the same upbringing? We have mutual friends. Yeah, that's how I've gotten in. Mutual friends from Scottsdale.

I think it's really cool that somebody his age could be in his position. I think it's even cooler that somebody that, you know, went to the same places that I ate and grew up in the same, you know, quasi neighborhood and, you know, hung out with a lot of the same people that I know, has gotten to be, you know, this, this coach and has had the success. And when I talk to him, I feel a sense of community because we do both know that city quite a bit. We knew what it used to be. And, you know, it's been really cool to see and also makes me feel bad that I haven't accomplished anything in life because he's yeah I'm older than him right at an early age am I older than him I think he's slight yeah

you are yeah I believe he's 36 yeah I think the man's building a house in Paradise Valley and you know just living the dream I don't know you know if this doesn't work out for me I'll go be a GA at Arizona State boo can we move to I think you have enough mutual friends that you'd probably be able to get the hookup Do you think that if I decided to go into coaching that, like, I could get a start somewhere because of all the people I know? Or do you think I'm not qualified? Here's the part of it. You don't know anything about football, like the actual exes and those of the sport.

How hard is that to learn, though, honestly? I think you could learn it. And I think really the level of grunt work, scut work you'd be required to do at the beginning doesn't require that knowledge. And you'd pick up the knowledge along the way. you're a hard enough worker that you go in there and you'd impress people. I'd have to make $13,000 a year for the first five. Oh, yeah, you'd be so broke. Yeah.

Of, you know, being a coach would be cool. I don't know. I think I could do it. I think I could do a lot of work. I think I could do how 70% of the work for being a college coach is not coaching. I think I could do that 70% might even be more than that now. I think I could do 85% of a coach's job. I don't know if I could do the 10% of.

percent on Saturdays, although it is funny because I'm paid to criticize them when they don't do well. You said it, not me. Yeah, it is kind of an interesting thing. It's like, should you be able to criticize a coach if you can't explain the X's and O's of the exact play call that they made? I don't think you have a real need to have some surface level knowledge. And I will, but, you know, the thing is I have more than the first level knowledge, but I can't Gileham's one of the people that kind of with me recently showed like how how far out of my depth I am in terms of that part of it because we had a deal when he was the OC at Florida State, me and Andrea Adelson from ESPN got to go up and call plays in the spring game.

And so they give you kind of a truncated play call sheet and you've got a few options, not a lot of options. and they put the headset on you. And so Kenny was calling, you know, Kenny called plays from the booth at Florida State. So Kenny comes over the headset. And he's like, all right, what do you need, Annie? Because he then would relay it to the other coaches and they would signal it out.

And so I called the game-winning play in the spring game. I called a, I'm trying to remember what it was. Oh, it was a wheel route. It was a wheel route that wound up going for the game winning touchdown. And I remember I called it. And Kenny, before the ball is snapped, just goes, Andy, you call it touchdown. Like, it was, all he had to do was look at how everybody was lined on the field. He's like, touchdown. This is, this is, this is easy. I want to ask you this. And I know, like, whenever we get on the mic, it goes a little bit sideways, but I think

an important question. Because our friend of the program, Josh Pate, who we may or may not have on the show here soon. Hopefully we do. Had a rant once that I disagreed with and maybe we can talk about it if we get them. Yeah. He said and this was in relation to Georgia fans criticizing Mike Bobo last year.

And he said, do you remember this? He went on a rant about how if you can't explain the intricate details of the reasons why a coach arrives at a certain play call which is X's and O's because you know, know, you know, run the damn ball.

It's a lot more in depth than that. Of course. Personnel, you know, who's tired? Why? Who's blitzing? All these things that you, like watching it on TV, we know 5% of what's going on in the headset, right? Yep.

Do you feel like it's inappropriate to criticize, not just from our perspective, but a fan's perspective, a coach in their decision making or their results in a game if you don't understand 100% of what's actually happening. It's never inappropriate from a fan's perspective. It is sometimes from ours if we don't know enough. I think the level of knowledge required to criticize is higher for us because we're getting paid to talk about this stuff. We should know that stuff.

For a fan, the person whose dollars pay the coach's salary, whose passion fuels the entirety of this enterprise, they don't have to know anything. They're a lot of criticize whatever they want. That's part of the contract. but do you criticize the actual play call or do you are you criticizing the results of what happened it depends on but i'm saying i think it's completely appropriate to to to because stats are stats and numbers or numbers or wins and losses are losses i'll go i'll give an example we go back

to we had a discussion with our friend ralph russo i know about the toss play that steve sartesian called on the goal line for texas and i'm sending you guys screenshots of here's why they should have called time out, they should have dumped out of the play, that it was never going to work because they were never going to be able to have enough blockers on the side that the play was being run on to account for all the people

who might be trying to tackle the back. And so that was, but here's the part we don't know. We don't know if somebody went the wrong way, if somebody went in motion when they weren't supposed to, if somebody lined up where they weren't supposed to, But if that is what the play call was, if it was run correctly, then it was a bad play call for that situation. But you do have to know something about that. Like you have to understand what each offensive lineman is doing, why they're doing it,

and what the ultimate goal is. If you just say, I don't think you should run the ball there, that is not a very effective criticism. the entire press box was like what the hell was that like that that wasn't a very right because there are certain things that are basic and fundamental going wide against the defense that is that fast in a compressed space rudimentary is a big idea you don't have to know much to know that and it's like also too the person who blew up that play was the best player in college football last year on the defensive side of the ball and it's like okay he was not the person who made the tackle yeah we talked to caled down about

that you heard the interview last week like late latin ransom was the person who made the tackle and lathen ransom with an incredible individual effort that you actually don't see very often but it's one of those things that if you don't really understand football you don't know how great what he did was he took on a first round offensive tackle who knocked the living crap out of him who outweighed him by a hundred pounds knocked the living crap out of him fought off the block and made the tackle. Like, you do need to, like, that is such an impressive play that if you don't really know football, you're like, oh, whatever.

If you do know football, you're like, how did he do that? Yeah, yeah. Anyway, fun discussion on the side. You know who knows that is Kenny Dillingham? Because Kenny Dillingham was a brilliant play caller as an offensive coordinator. Now he kind of lets Marcus Royo call the plays, but has proven to be a very good head coach. Year two, he won the big.

12, year three, can you repeat? Here's Kenny Dillingham. I am here with two of Scottsdale's most proud sons, Kenny Dillingham and Ari Wasserman. You guys never crossed paths in high school, right? No, you're a little older. No, but we have a mutual friend. So I'm a little bit older than you and it's kind of crazy to think that like I still feel like I'm 20 and just like watching you like kill it it's like i'm like makes you feel like complete failure yeah this guy's over here just like living the scottesdale dream and turning program around and i'm just uh i don't know i'm gonna go to jack on the box for lunch tomorrow you know like i don't i don't know what are you getting the tacos though i think that's the important part okay good so what what is this

we talked to you you know i remember talking you in arizona first year on the job you were trying to massively overhaul a roster now you are coming off a big 12 title you're bringing back a quarterback that everybody loves. You're bringing back your best wide receiver who didn't get to play in your two toughest games last year, oh, by the way. How exciting is this for you? It's exciting.

I mean, no, for us, it's different. And I think that's what's exciting about it is you have different challenges than we had last year. Last year, the challenge everybody's saying, we're bad. This year, the challenge everybody's saying we're good. And I think that's the exciting part is,

can you do it? But you're almost flipped upside down. But in reality, everybody starts from zero again. And that's the crazy part about sports is you start from zero. That the narrative is completely different. Yep. But you start from zero. And I think that's the hardest thing to convince guys to understand is we're back at square one and you have to restart.

And can you get emotionally invested enough again to do what you did again? And the best programs can do that. Other programs just go back to, you know, status quo of where they'll be forever. You know, I don't know if you recall this, Kenny, but we had like a 45-minute conversation on the phone when you were thinking about taking the Arizona State job, and you kind of outlined your whole plan or how you viewed it would go. And, you know, having had a front-row seat to ASU my whole life, you know, I knew some of the challenges that you were facing. But to accomplish that, it's funny that you say you have to start back from, you know, zero on the field you do.

but that's not true when you're building a program i don't think right like what you accomplished last year will pay dividends in terms of how you try to continue to build that place right and i'm wondering you know your phrase activate the valley and you know all the business owners and the people that support as you how have you found you know that aspect of your job you know coming off of a season like that is going and like are you on schedule from what you had in your mind a few years ago yeah i think we're on schedule i think people are excited you know you get I mean, the stadium, the city, we're built into a mountain. There's golf courses all over.

I mean, it's paradise. Other than the 115 it is for three months, it's paradise. It's where people want to move and want to live and want to retire. So all you have to do is create something fun, create something that people want to be a part of that's talked about. And if you can do that and win at the same time, then why not us? And I mean, maybe I'm a big dreamer. Maybe it's, you know, I should be put back into reality. But I think you got to dream big if you want to accomplish big things.

And I think that's the goal is to build that stadium, to build that place, and to the place to be on Saturday night, every single home game. There's nowhere else people want to be in that big city of Phoenix, Arizona. Yeah, which is difficult because talking stick casinos like a five-minute drive. Listen, what I find amazing is, you know, we have the new generation of head coach here, Kenny. In your 30s, you know, you're on the cutting edge of everything. thing. That recruiting pitch is the same one Steve Spurrier would use in the 90s when he recruited players from outside Florida. People, people spend their whole lives trying to go to Florida

and I'm offering you right now at 18. So that's, that's how that goes. I don't do the good Spurrier. That's actually really good. I thought. But that was his, like people spend their whole lives trying to retire to here. Why don't you just come here at 18 and you're already here? That's right. I mean, people spend their whole lives. I may have to bring him in if that was his pitch to come talk to our recruits. Furrier would get along so well. I've never met him, but he's one of the greatest coaches to ever coach. And he did it in such a positive way, such a different way. No, I always respect people who do it different than other people because they understand that they're not, they're not the same.

You know, I think the best compliment I ever got was Kenny's going to be Kenny. Yeah. And that was just going to be real. And whether it was going to work, fail, succeed, who knows, I'm going to be me. When did you decide how you were going to be as a head coach? because I'm thinking about like when you were at Florida State before you went to Oregon, it seemed like you already had a pretty good idea of what you were as a coach and how your personality should go. But I mean, does it change when you get in the big chair? Do you realize,

oh, I need to act this way or is it as easy as I can just be me and this is how it works? I think, you know, there are some times where early it was uncomfortable and then I realized, but I always tried to be me. I got to where I was. was at because I was me. I was at Memphis. I get promoted the tight ends coach. We lost somebody who was recruit Louisiana. And Coach Norvelle, when I got promoted, asked Coach Lorick, they said, well, who are you going to put Louisiana to recruit? That's a tough area. And Norvelle said, I'm going to put Kenny in Louisiana. And Coach Lorig was like, you're going to put Kenny in Louisiana? That makes no sense. And then Coach Norvel said, Kenny doesn't know how to be fake. He's just

going to be real and people respect that, Louisiana. So he put me in Louisiana. And, when i got told that story i was like man is it that powerful just to be yourself yeah it's just being real a lot of people can't do it a lot of or they feel like they have to because i have this job i must act this way like you you don't yeah i mean i were slippers to the building i mean i don't care like at the end of the day people are going to like what they choose to like and not like what they choose to not like it doesn't matter if i scream at a bi way you game or it doesn't matter if i donate to charity somebody's going to say something good somebody's going to say something bad the one thing they can't say is they're going to know who i am they're going to know what i'm about

and the people that i coach and the people that i work with are going to know who i am they're going to know i take care of them that's all that matters to me he's wearing slippers but he's got the swag can you show the camera the the the lining of the jacket look at this is uh now yeah but that is your wife's doing correct this is my wife and uh you know the tailor we have who did all of our players uh suits today with all the pat pat pat pat tomin lining And it's pretty cool. Doug does a phenomenal job with all that stuff. Yeah, the thing that I like about you, Kenny, is that you're young enough where you can connect

and know it's cool with the players who are on your team, but you're also ancient in their eyes in the sense that you know, a mature person that knows how to build a program and stuff. How do you think that your youth? Because that was one of the things that people negged you on when you were a candidate for Arizona State. How are you going to offer somebody who's 33 years old this job? Like, how do you think? your age has impacted the way that you've gone about things. And then second to that,

Arizona State's done a ton of retread hires before you or guys who were successful elsewhere or whatever. What do you think being from Scottsdale and like understanding that place means? So age and familiar. Yeah, I would say the age piece, I've always been young. I started coaching 17. I was an offense coordinator in high school at 21.

Like I was the O.C. at Memphis at 26. So I've always been close to age. I've always learned how to manage that. So that wasn't even like a thought for me. Like when people say young, I'm like, well, what about experience? What about, look past the age? Age is a number. What about the years of experience and the things I've been through?

That's the number that matters. And I started coached at 17. I got the head coaching job at 32. I had 15 years of coaching experience, right? Whereas other people start coaching at 25. They would have had seven. So that is new, right? I couldn't have been a head coach in Arizona State seven years into this thing.

I would have failed miserably because I didn't. know what I didn't know. And I still don't know what I don't know. In terms of the city, I think the key for that is I understand that people move to the city. Not everybody in the city went to Arizona State, right? There's people at this table that didn't go to Arizona State, but we've converted them to Arizona State plans, right? Slowly. Well, one day when the place I went to fields of football team, maybe we can have another discussion. But, you know, did I just like backstab my entire university? That was, you know, what's the Nirvana? The Nirvana's on territorial pissings That was territorial cup pissings right there.

Andy, before we go. Okay, we got to let him go. I'm so sorry. Just one last thing for you. I'm not even going to speak. I took him to Chompies when we cover. Oh. I took him to Chompies before we covered the Fiesta Bowl, I think, three years ago.

Tell him what you ate. Oh, it was. So it was the sliders. Chewish sliders. Yeah, it was the hollow sliders. All of those, all of the fries, whatever half of Ari's sandwich was, all of his fries. It was incredible. And then you had a dessert, too.

most food i've ever seen those holla yeah the holla corn beef there were 12 of them and pastrami sliders oh 12 and then he ate 12 of them and then he ate half of my mile i can't do this anymore but that's that's dangerous well then he covered the game yeah then we covered the clemson ohio state fiesta bowl i don't think it was targeting still but hey it is what it is he got through it but i took him to one of our our uh our dillies in in phoenix and i thought you'd appreciate that Oh, oh, yeah, that's a great one. I actually played youth baseball with the founder of Chompy's son. Oh, really?

Yep. Oh, what's his name? I don't know. I thought my head. I know that. I'm on Chomp's a lot. I just, we'll figure it out off the air. But like, I remember, I think I used to work at a summer camp with that kid.

Probably. And this is, this has been Scottsdale 2004 memories. Thanks, thanks, Kenny. Thank you. That was Arizona State head coach, Kenny Dillingham, Ari. And he just. seems so at ease with all this stuff and he's he's quite a bit younger than me he's about the same age as you i just don't know that i'd be as comfortable in this role at that point of my life i mean

now he can be there are certain things he was like that when he got there too yeah no he his fire is real um he he he's like uh it's like p j fleck but like not as loud Right. It's, it, like, he doesn't, it's not as, I don't want to say gimmicky because I think that's unfair to PJ because, like I said, and we had PJ on Big Ten Media Days, it's not really gimmicky because it's who he is day to day. Like, that's just who he is. That's the way I said it was, was true. I think it's just, it's passionate, but not as loud. Yeah, I think, I think that's probably right. And definitely had a plan. And you have to remember how much he had to turn up. over that roster. That was a very hard job that he took. What happened at the end of the Herm Edwards era?

You had the NCAA stuff, but you also had kind of mismanagement of the program toward the end of that. And he had to completely start from scratch. Yeah. And that also shows you, too, the power of hitting on a few guys in the portal, you know,

under-evaluated guys or guys you took a shot on. And, you know, I mean, hell. Sam Levitt and Ham Scataboo, and can you do it again? And he knows the importance of doing it again. Yeah, and it will be fun to watch because Sam Levitt's back. Jordan Tyson, the receiver who missed their two toughest games last year, he's back. It's going to be a lot of fun.

And in a league that, I mean, it is, it is anybody's game in the Big 12. I'm looking at that schedule at Baylor, at Utah, at Iowa State. That's not easy. Yep. That's not easy. But very excited to see what Arizona State does. One more, Ari. We were talking about that Ohio State defense earlier in the show.

We were talking about the play that Caleb Downs and Latham the Ransom made on the toss against Texas. Lath & Ransom is gone, of course. Caleb Downs is back. But not many other guys from that defense are back. In fact, eight starters are gone. Sonny Stiles, one of the few who is back. He's a lineback. He started out as a safety.

How this man ever played safety at this size. His speed is incredible for this size. But he is kind of now the prototype of what you want in a linebacker in this era of football. Yeah, great in the video game, too, which we brought up. They have guys again, Andy. They've got dudes again. But I mean, like Sonny Stiles, Caleb Downs, like they have to play. a different role than they played last year because last year you had jack sawyer you had jt too

in malau you had a bunch of guys that had played tons of games for ohio state that understood everything that that knew the defense backward and forward that everybody was was on the same page now you've got a new defensive coordinator mat patricia and you've got a bunch of guys who haven't really had to start yet and people like sunny styles who have to make sure they uphold the standard. So that's his challenge. Here is Ohio State linebacker, Sonny Stiles. All right, we got Sunny Stiles with us.

Sonny, I'm standing next to you, and how were you ever a safety? I don't know, that's all I knew all my life, but made it work somehow. You know, coach knows it a great job in my first two years, but I'm glad I'm a linebacker now. It feels like you were made for this era of playing linebacker.

No doubt. Yeah, I think the areas now is like, you see those big, the tall, long linebackers and the athletic. You know, they're asked to do a lot now, especially like the great ones in the NFL. You know, Ohio State's been doing that for years, man. They had a, Darren Lee was a quarterback in high school and they moved. It's the fast, big. The thing I don't know is standing next to you right now, how you could possibly be as fast as you are. Because, Andy, I was telling him before we started, he's an absolute dog in the video game. Absolutely. If you spy the quarterback and rove around with him, you could hop in front of the past. When you're that hybrid guy. Yeah. Yeah, they did pretty well with me in the game. I'm pretty happy with it.

Do you use yourself? Yeah, I do a little bit. I can't lie. I can't lie. Were you a guy who would play with a second level player before? Because I'm a big D-N, the tackle kind of guy when I'm playing. I love using a linebacker in the game because you kind of can make all the tackles and make all the interceptions in the game. If you know how to do it, right, especially if you do a fast linebacker.

So sometimes you've got to stub the linebackers out for the safety. We never stub yourself out? No. I'm sorry. But when you get the game, is that the first thing you do is figure out, okay, what do I look like in this thing? Yeah, that was the first thing I did. I want to play with myself, play with Ohio State,

see how good we were, see how good we were. So it was pretty exciting. You ever play online? A little bit, not too much. Hit the headset and just be like, I would do. If I were in the game, I would do a user pick or make a huge play with me, and I'm like, that's actually me that did that. Well, you had that happen to you with a guy who plays not in the FBS.

So he was, you asked him if. who's a failed college football player. He's like, no, I'm a current college football player. And he felt like a giant asshole. I get pretty nasty on something. I'm not, I'm not who I am on that thing. No, I've had some rough experiences with the online, online people. They get, they get pretty rough.

Isn't it bad when you know it's like an eight-year-old, though? Yeah. I usually have some mean, like, other games, like, like, Fortnite or, like, holiday, like, some little kid on the mic telling me I suck, delete my game. So here's my philosophy on that, though. If you get a kid and he's talking shit, like I don't, I've, talk to him like he's an adult like his parents are going to have to sit him down like i don't like yeah the FBI is coming to your house too but i'm not taking it but i'm not taking easy on him if he's

especially if he's talking trashed him uh-huh and as soon as that not comes every word mr wasterman yeah that's what you guys put him on mute exactly that's what i tell my son i was like i don't care what they're saying i'm worried about what you're saying no no i'm a father figure in that point and i'm gonna let him know that you don't talk you ain't anybody's daddy we know that right All right, Sonny, you are one of the veterans on this defense. It is completely changed. We talked to Caleb a little bit about it, too. How do you guys get these guys that are in new roles comfortable?

Yeah, I mean, I think we have a lot of guys that's been the program for quite some time. So they know what it takes, what it takes to be elite and things like that. And I think they've been itching to wait their turn, especially like a lot of guys on the defense of line. We had four really good guys just leave, and they were all had some really young guys behind them. So excited to see them go. I think Coach Mick does a great job, just reinstilling our culture every year. So I have full confidence everyone who'd be ready to go. Caleb told us what Mickey Marotti made him do to kind of forget that you went

a national championship last year. He said he put him against Jeremiah, and it was like to figure it out. What's Coach Mick do to you to make you move ahead? Man, it's just constantly challenged me all the time, you know, sometimes calling you out, saying you did this, hey, you missed the line, even though maybe I didn't miss a line, but just seeing how I'm going to react and see I'm going to respond. And also just putting you in roles where you have to lead. Maybe you've got a guy that's a long snapper and you've got to help him be the linebacker,

which is probably going to have a hard time doing, but you've got to be able to encourage him and tell him he can do it and stuff like that. So putting in those situations where you can really challenge yourself and learn how to lead. What do you think now that you're a national champion would be the next fulfilling thing for you next year? What do you need to have on your college resume in order to go out with feeling like you did everything you needed to do? Well, first and foremost, you know, we've got to go ahead and do it again. So kind of wash that down the drain and normally think about that this year. But, you know, the biggest thing for me for my last year, you know, I want to leave a lasting

impact on the younger guys in the team. I remember being a freshman sophomore. I had guys like Cameron Bab, Xavier Johnson, you know, Josh Proctor, those kind of guys. They left last of impacts on me and helped me become a better man. I'm hoping to do that for the younger guys with my team this year. But yeah, just do as much as I can this year. Just leave it all in the field and go get it go get another ring so you have a huge game to start with texas does it make it easier that you you just played them um in a way you know obviously they're a little bit of a different team we're a little bit of a different team so it's exciting though you get to come out week one you know see what all the work you do we're doing the summer all the sport you did in the spring and

you know see what happens do offseason workouts hit different when you know coming out of the gate you're playing another team that is in the national national conversation oh title contention No, I mean, regardless we're playing week one, the work's going to be the work. And it's going to be real hard. So it almost doesn't affect it at all with the offseason training, I'd say, more so maybe it would affect it a little bit more in camp. Maybe you start preparation a little bit early. I don't know. We'll see how it goes this year.

So Caleb said something really interesting. I want to ask you where this hits you because he said the sense of fulfillment of winning a national championship, it sort of just fades away. And then you realize we have all this work to do. When did that happen for you? Yeah. So for me, like, you know, we won, and we left the, left the stadium once to the hotel. And I'm sitting in my hotel room. I'm like, man, we did it.

Like, it feels good. And then, you know, we get back, have a new meeting. You know, all the old guys are gone. It's about a week, two weeks later. I'm like, all right. Let's start over. Back at ground zero. So let's go to work.

Wait. What time did you get back to your hotel room that night you won the national title? I don't know. We were at the stadium for a while. I went back. I was just hanging out my family most of the time. Yeah. So I also was like, what would you do to celebrate your number one accomplishment in life?

Well, I mean, you know, I was on a national championship team. What did you do then? I went out on Bourbon Street. Yeah, I was going to send New Orleans. I signed a boob. I was like, you don't want my signature. She's like, I don't care. I was like, okay.

I was like, I'm a walkout. I'm not to play. I signed a boob. Happy Gilmore was big back then. Hadn't come out yet. That's how old I am. Yeah, I wasn't doing too much crazy. So I guess we're going to worry about.

or do this year is try to sign a boo yeah i probably won't be doing that this year put that on a bucket list it's also a very different time actual title games in miami so let's not oh never say never oh man yeah i'm probably i got a lady so that's okay yeah that's not going to be happy this is you're a good guy you are a better man that beautiful sunny thank you so much yes sir appreciate you guys time that is ohio state linebacker sunny styles and man if you're not bringing back a whole lot of starters, you could do a lot worse than having Sunny Stiles and Caleb Downs as the guys who are going to help teach the new starters. So again, Ohio State has to replace a lot of starters on defense, but I'm not that worried about how good

the Buckeyes will be on that side of the ball because, one, they're always recruiting really well. But two, you have guys like Caleb Downs and Sunny Stiles to make sure that those guys know what they're doing. And I think that's a huge plus for Ohio State and Sunny Stiles. again, this is one of those where the way footballs evolved, the way positions have evolved, he's now the physically perfect version of this type of linebacker. And, you know, he might have been a big, you know, and did play safety.

And in another era of college football, he probably would have played safety's entire career. But now he's perfect for the spot he plays now. And it's so much fun to watch and play. Tomorrow, big show, whatever the E.N.C.W. decides on Michigan, we will break it all down. Also, it's a Friday. So you got dear Andy and dear Ari, great mailbag questions. I'll tease you with one. Who's the better coach all time? Urban Meyer or Kirby Smart? It's a fascinating, fascinating question. Also, big one on Friday.

our producer river has been in combat this week in conflict there's apparently a murder bird flying around Nashville this is a very vicious mockingbird that keeps attacking our producer when he's trying to walk his dog we will have an update on the murder bird on friday show