Andy & Ari On3 - Why a 24-Team CFP doesn’t solve ANYTHING: Big Ten Commissioner Tony Petitti in favor of expansion

Episode Date: May 20, 2026

Over in Rancho Palos Verdes, California, Tony Petitti and the Big Ten are holding their spring meetings, and the commissioner provided some interesting quotes regarding the expansion of the College Football Playoff. In favor of the 24-team format, Petitti provides his reasons for the expansion of the tournament. Watch here as Andy & Ari debate if this is really a good idea or not for the future of the sport.   (0:00) On Today’s Episode (1:03) BetMGM (2:40) Intro: Tony Petitti on Expansion (9:38) Does FOX want in on the CFP? (16:30) Will scheduling get any better? (28:35) Josh Heupel’s offensive evolution (38:11) Previewing Cody Bellaire (39:00) Cody Bellaire Joins - Texas RB (46:00) The weapons at Texas (49:26) Cooper Barkate (52:37) LSU’s next star? (56:30) LSU’s Ingredients to be a national title contender? (57:44) John Henry Daley (1:06:14) Drew Mestemaker at Oklahoma State (1:14:20) Cody Bellaire’s Sleeper QBs (1:19:11) ACC Conference (1:20:22) Conclusion: See you tomorrow!   Continuing with Megaboard Wednesday, the guys discuss the Tennessee Volunteers offense and how much Josh Heupel has evolved during his time in Knoxville. While former Tennessee OC Alex Golesh said the Vols look very different from when he was there, is this good news for fans on Rocky Top? Watch here as Andy & Ari discuss.   Next up, Rivals' Cody Bellaire joins to give us his most impactful transfers ahead of the 2026 college football season. Has texas completely re-loaded the running back room? Who is the star at LSU nobody is talking about? Could the most impactful QB from the portal be in Stillwater, Oklahoma?   Our show is also presented by BetMGM!   If you haven’t signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code CFB and you will get up to a $1500 First Bet Offer on your first wager with BetMGM! Here’s how it works:   1. Download the BetMGM app and sign-up using bonus code CFB. 2. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game. 3. You will receive up to $1500 in bonus bets if your bet loses! Just make sure you use bonus code CFB when you sign up!   Make this college football season one for the history books. Make it legendary.   See BetMGM.com for Terms. 21+ only. This promotional offer is not available in DC, Mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET (Available in the US) . 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), 1-800-327-5050 (MA), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR). First Bet Offer for new customers only (if applicable). Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel   Join On3 today! https://www.on3.com/join   Watch our show on YouTube! https://youtu.be/oxRELZOr56Q   Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari Wasserman Producer: River Bailey Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On today's episode of Andy and Ari on 3 presented by BetMGM, the Big Ten meetings are going on out in California. Tony Petiti speaks his mind on the playoff format. They want 24. The SEC wants 16. Why does the Big Ten want 24? How will it look? Tony Petitie explains, and of course it's got the message towards Poppin. Plus, a thread from Volkwest about how Tennessee's offense has shift.

with evidence from former Vols offensive coordinator, Alice Gulles, who will lead Auburn against the balls this season. Also, Cody Belair, Rivals.com's National Scout joins us to discuss who the biggest transfer additions of the season are going to be. Hint, there's two guys at Texas that jump off the map. We'll talk about it all. And today's Andy and RON3 presented by BetMGM. We are presented by BetMGM.

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Megaboard Wednesday, and there are threads all across the On3 network, Ari about the 2014 playoff, about what Big Ten Commissioner Tony Petiti said on Tuesday night, because that was his first time talking in a while publicly about this stuff. And the first time talking publicly since the worm kind of turned on support for the 2014 playoff where now he's got all the support with the exception of the SEC. In January, it's flipped, where Greg Sankey and the Sanky and the S&E. SEC wanted 16, everybody else wanted 16, nobody wanted 24 except the Big 10. And now that is completely shifted, the power dynamic is shifted, and it is now Tony

Petiti with the most allies. And so we'll go to the Wolverine, the fort, the message board at the Wolverine. 24 team CFP is, this is on 3MC. It says the 24 team CFP is akin to everyone getting a trophy for just showing up. although Notre Dame is loving the potential new format as it virtually guarantees they get in the playoffs regardless of they have a few losses. One ACC coach said it now gives everyone's

and hope to get in the playoffs. Sir, if you need hope and a prayer, you and many other hopefuls don't belong in the playoffs. As a Michigan fan, I hope all this mess that's being created doesn't diminish the game as in the Ohio State game.

So, Ari, this is from Tony Petiti's own conference, a fan. And I think you and I feel the way most of the fans feel. but Tony Petiti feels completely different. Yeah, I mean, it was good to just hear him say stuff because he speaks to the media so infrequently.

But obviously at Big Ten spring meetings, that's a place that he typically speaks. So, you know, I think that the mega board thread that you pointed out, I think, is kind of like the crux of where people are split. Like, you know, as we were doing, this show on Wednesday, like Brett Beelma comes out from the Big Ten and says, well, the more teams in the better. And it's like, well, of course he thinks that. But that being a

Michigan fan makes a lot of sense to me because people who are accustomed to making the playoff or at least striving to be a 11-win team and be in the mix for the 12-team or even during the four-team era are probably less keen to like this change because I do think that while there probably is a benefit to Michigan in Ohio State and Alabama and Georgia and teams like that to guarantee a playoff spot every year no matter what. I do think that people do crave exciting regular season matchups that determine, you know, the fate of their teams. And I think that, you know, that's kind of where the split is.

Every single poll, Andy, that I've seen on Twitter, because a lot of reporters have done it. Even Cole Kublich just did it. asking fans, would you rather stay at 12 or go to 24? It's an 85, 15% split. And I don't know if it's because 85% of the fans root for big teams like Michigan, or if that's just kind of where everyone is at. I did it, just like Cole did, and it was 54% stay at 12, 31% stay, or expand to 16 and 14.3% expanding to 24.

This is the split that I think is a pretty reliable benchmark. because it's like you can say well my audience is skewed to bigger teams and you know whatever but like everybody who does it for the most part gets the same result so hearing toady patini explained to us for the first time in his own words why he finds this to be the most advantageous path was interesting um although i think we all know what the what the actual motivation here is and that is to you know make your television partner whole in a way that they're getting the short end of the stick in the time being yeah and part of that is you're giving them the short of the stick, but that's another, we're going to get to

the fox of it all in a second. One of the things he said, according to Ross Delinger, our friend from Yahoo, who's at the meeting, they are not interested in 16, in any shape, or form. They feel like that's kind of a purgatory situation where you don't necessarily do anything about the conference championship games, and if you're 12, the conference championship games still have some value, not as much as they used to, but still some. At 16, they really don't. At 24, they definitely don't. 24, you're getting rid of them to put the first week of the playoff in that week.

And so Tony Petiti says, if we have to wait, it's okay, we'll wait. And that's discussing 24 versus 16. He's saying they'll stay at 12 until they can get it to go to 24, to which I say, Greg Sanky, SEC Commissioner. Hold the line. Hold the line. What did the guy from game stuff? He said he wants 16. Like he doesn't want to, he doesn't necessarily want to stay at 12. He'd like to go to 16. But I'm saying hold the line and stay at 12. Well, I think that the main crux of the issue here with 16 is an economic one, right? The conference championship games in totality are worth a combined roughly $200 million. And if you go to 16 and you diminish the value or get to a place where people view, like, you know, there's a lot of.

you know, that are about, like, abolishing them to begin with. Like, you go to a system that makes the television partners and the conferences whole

from a financial standpoint. So, like, I understand, like, Petiti's point of view on this. It's like, why would we expand to 16

only to lose a major asset and really not gain that much? Like, that is elementary logic. I think that, like, it's a great with that. Yeah.

So my point is here with you is, like, the GameStop guy. Remember him? Like, the kiddie guy? Yeah. He was telling everybody to hold the line when everybody was when GameStop was hold the line, Greg. And like if we can, you know, keep 12 for a longer period of time, maybe cooler heads will prevail.

Although it does feel to me, Andy, that this is a matter of when, not if we get to 24 and it might be in two years. Yeah, it does feel inevitable, but maybe not. Maybe it turns around. Maybe there's a ground soul support. And so let me explain why it probably doesn't matter if you go to 24. It's not going to solve the underlying problem unless you change some other stuff. So our friend Stuart Mandel at the Athletic wrote a really interesting column off of what Tony Petiti said. But Stewart gets to the heart of the matter. Who wants 24? The Big 10, yes.

But why does the Big 10 want 24? Because Fox wants 24. Fox wants 24 for a couple of reasons. first of all, either they didn't bid or issued a completely unsurious bid the last time the playoff rights came up. So the contract that starts this year that ESPN has, Fox was not a competitor for that one. And that is probably a miscalculation on their part. And they realized that. But there's another piece of this too. Fox's early season offerings from the Big Ten and the Big 12, they suck.

Like, there's no other way to say it. They suck. And the best game they're getting in the early season this year is they're getting Oklahoma at Michigan, which is great. I'm glad Michigan's scheduling that game. Ohio State and Texas are playing, but ESPN gets that game because it's at Texas this year, Fox got it last year. If you look at the week one college football schedule, look at the games that emanate

from a Big 10 or Big 12 campus. And tell me what is the Fox Big Noon game? I can go down the list for you here, Ari. Yeah, please. I mean, there's nothing there, but you can enlighten us. It's pathetic. Now, there is a good game. There's Boise State at Oklahoma,

at Boise State at Oregon, which the last time they played was really fun. Yeah, that was the gentle game. But it's at Oregon. And I don't think they're going to kick that off at noon or at noon Eastern at 9 a.m. local. I just don't think they're going to do it. So you don't get that as an option. I don't think.

So we got Abilene Christian at Texas Tech. We got Nickel State at Kansas State. We got Northern Arizona at Arizona. Morgan State at Arizona State. Utah Tech at BYU. Boston College at Cincinnati. Hey, it's a power conference matchup. That's the best one so far like you're laughing, but that's the best one. Oregon State at Houston, southeast Missouri at Iowa State, coastal Carolina at West Virginia.

All right, let's move on to the Big Ten. Those are your big 12 ones. UAB at Illinois, North Texas, and not the good version from last year, against Indiana, Northern Iowa against Iowa, Hampton against Maryland, Western Michigan at Michigan, Ohio U, the alma mater of Pete Nacos, at Nebraska, South Dakota State at Northwestern, Ball State at Ohio State. The aforementioned Boise State at Oregon, which is the best of these games, which is being played at 9 a.m. Pacific is probably not an option. Marshall at Penn State, Indiana State at Purdue,

Fresno State at USC. That may be a week zero a game, actually. Do you just throw Ohio State on there and then just call it a day? Wait, wait, there's one more. You got the Apple Cup, but are they going to kick the Apple Cup off at 9 a.m. Local. The same problem is Boise, Oregon, yeah. Yeah.

So that's it. It is going to be one of two games, Ari. your big noon Saturday with all of that production and all that hoopla on the first Saturday of the college football season is going to be Western Michigan, Michigan, Kyle Whittingham's debut, or Ball State, Ohio State. That's pathetic and the Big Ten should be ashamed. Yeah. And here's the thing, from a Fox standpoint, obviously sexy matchups are king and you want

everybody to get excited about what's on TV. they always have the bailout option, which is throwing Michigan or Ohio State into the slot and knowing everyone's going to watch. But this is why they want a much bigger playoff because then they could buy into it. And they will at least get guaranteed some good games at the end of the year because their partners are not giving them anything at the beginning of the year. I wanted to bring this up, though. We talked a little bit off air, but let's let's talk about it on air. There is this notion that if you go to 24 teams that because the relaxed entry into the playoff will now exist, where an 8 and 14 can conceivably or will get in, that people are going to be more willing to schedule non-conference games

against big-time opponents because there's more margin for error, which then will improve the beginning of the year with higher quality games. Totally logical. Also, history says that's not what will happen. History says coaches still want the easiest path, that ADs will always select the path of least resistance. and they won't schedule better non-conference games because there's a 12-team playoff now.

And everybody in the SEC is mad because they've gone to a nine-game conference schedule, which will be better for the fans because the games will be better. The home schedules will be better for the season ticket buyers. And they're pissed about it that they did it because now their schedules are harder. Like the schedules should be harder.

It's a better TV product when the schedules are harder. Also. to do it unless you give them a reason to do it and going to 24 is not a reason. They're just going to go, oh, well, if we schedule even easier, then we're guaranteed in. Then we're guaranteed in. So this is a good look in the mirror moment, though, for those who are okay with canceling non-conference games.

And I think that obviously everybody takes the path that is most beneficial or ideal for their favorite team, and that's never going to change. as I got done watching Texas Tech fans try to convince me yesterday on Twitter that Brendan Sorsby should be given another shot. People will always side with that. But I think that if this is your position on the sport, even if it's best for Texas or best for Bama or Ohio State

or wherever you root for, you have to understand that there's a byproduct to this and the byproduct is the schedule that Andy just read off. And I don't think that 24 teams is a solution. I think it's actually a larger margin of error on your schedule, which then you would not want to give up in the non-conference. You want to go into conference play being able to lose three times. You don't want to lose once and give one of your giveaways away.

So, like, I don't think that this is the problem. Now, Andy, can we get to a place where Big 10 SEC, Big 12 ACC teams are contractually obligated from a television standpoint to schedule one big time game in September? Like, what does the solution get to that point? They're not right now. I think that's, it's the best question. because you and I have explained over and over on this show that the college football playoff selection committee

does consider strength of schedule. Everybody wants to claim they don't, and the SEC will shout from the rooftops that they don't. Although they do. Biggest beneficiary of that fact, too, by the way. It's also, it's like the last thing in the world that should be saying that is the league that has benefited traditionally from it the most.

2004. If Indiana had lost a second, game. If Indiana were 10 and 2, because they had a really weak schedule, a 9 and 3 SEC team would have gotten in the playoff. The only reason Indiana got it is they were 11 and 1 and not 10 and 2. This year, Texas doesn't make the playoff because they had three losses and they'll say, well, if we just played Rice instead of Ohio State, we're in. And they might be right. Or they might have been viewed just like Vanderbilt, which is a team they beat that they finished ahead of at 9 and 3, that was 10 and 2.

Because Vanderbilt didn't have a particularly strong SEC draw. But Texas lost to Florida. They needed overtime against the Kentucky. Texas would have been right, though, because Texas did have wins over two other playoff teams. And I would rather reward Texas for scheduling harder. I would have rather rewarded them. It's literally proof that hard games matter, Andy.

Yeah. Texas A&M is a great point. from last year too. Texas A&M got the weakest SEC schedule draw of anybody in the league. If you look at the, how they finished, Texas A&M,

all of the teams in the SEC had the easiest conference schedule. Yeah, then they played like six games in a row against bottom half teams. But what did they have? They had a valuable win over Notre Dame. And that is the saving grace for them.

Because without the Notre Dame game, A&M literally is Vanderbilt. Yes. They have the exact same resume as Vanderbilt. And they're out. Yeah. So, you know, it is like Notre Dame might have gotten. Notre Dame would have been in. So like the-

So it's not the committee is what I'm saying. The committee's not doing this to you. So how do we incentivize these people to schedule better games? How do we do it? How do we get to a place? Well, because like I actually thought the incentive actually existed already, which is the fact that the committee value strength of schedule and quality wins. But we've gotten into this dystopias. I know, but how do we get into this dystopia of like,

oh, we're going to make up some like crazy thing that we're just going to say on TV a lot and people are actually going to believe. Like, how are we there? It's not true. And we're not, unfortunately, this isn't fantasy land. So it would be easy for for me and Ari to say, oh, just rewrite the TV contracts and put a bounty on on good games. And, And so the schools that scheduled better games. That's not how it works. When you think about how much money is being bid for these rights, I'm surprised that there isn't a provision in those agreements with the television networks

before we got to this point where teams have a play. Probably next time there will be, but the next time, the first next time is not until 2030. Which is post whenever these changes could occur. So how do you do it in the short term from, I mean, honestly, the whole thing is how do you,

you get it in writing that teams will be compensated more to do something in the short term. And I don't know what the answer is if there's no other television negotiation for six more years. Yeah, this is what's frustrating to me is they are going to go to 24 unless Greg Sanky can hold the line. They're going to go to 24 with no guarantee that anybody's going to schedule anything better. Well, the question, too, that I have, though, for you is like, is it enough? Let's just say that they go to 24 and then Fox gets a big sliver of the inventory of the new playoff games that don't exist right now. If nothing ever changes about September scheduling after that happens, did Fox feel like it made a good deal?

Just to get those playoff games or is September a large portion of this motivation? I think September is a big portion of it. Fox doesn't want September to suck. They paid a lot of money for this. Now, the part everybody needs to consider as well, and this is a big one with Fox, the NFL is about to strap every network that carries NFL games over a barrel. CBS, Fox, NBC, and ASPN are going to get absolutely pillaged by the NFL. So there's not a ton of spare cash flying around right now. And the NFL actually has more leverage than it's ever had before with secondary markets willing to buy their property.

It is the most guaranteed ratings. It is the best guarantee in television. And yes, Amazon Prime, Netflix buys games, Google is buying games for YouTube. So yes. Now, if you get some of those bidders in for college football, that's great. That's more money, too. But right now, you've got to figure this out. And I just don't think they are positing that the 2014 players,

off will guarantee better games in September. And I don't think that's true. Now, if the leagues want to say you have to schedule 11 power conference games to make the playoff, like you're not eligible for the playoff unless you play 11 power conference games. But I don't think you can do that because the group of six teams can't do that. Yeah, because if you do that, then you're cutting off. You are separating the two sports.

But I've got to be honest. honest with you. He let a group of six team in anyway. They can be one of the 12. I know, but financially, we'd be able to exist still if they didn't get those big paychecks at the beginning of the year. Yes. Okay. Yeah. I know that like a lot of times like the entire football. Gary, if you said, would you rather play in this system with you, you can have one spot, but we're going to set it up where the power conference needs mostly play each other. and you're going to lose that revenue. They'd still take it.

They weren't, they aren't going to be like, no, we're good. We'll drop down to FCS or we'll just form our own division. I'm just playing devil's advocate here, Andy, because I think it's kind of a good idea.

But if you take away that revenue from those teams, the backbone revenue that these teams need to exist or to at least drive. It's not backbone revenue they need to exist. It's significant money, but it's not, it's not make or break. But you're stripping. they will choose, they will choose to stay in that system as long as they can.

If you strip away Memphis's money from going to play on the road at Arkansas, right? Will Memphis have enough resources, not saying to exist, but to field a team that could be competitive enough to ever stay on the same field? Memphis's football budget is, what does Memphis spend on football? $25 million? You're taking a million and a half out of it. Yeah.

Okay. I mean, like, I'm okay with it, but like, what's the point of including them in a playoff system if you're just kneecapping them from ever being good enough to exist on the same field with these teams to begin with? Well, they already were. Yeah. So that's not really changing anything. Yeah. So, I mean, but there are, there are groups of five teams that exist right now that are better than bottom half power conference teams. Yes, there are. That's correct. And then will that still exist in that in that world? I don't know. Like I didn't, I don't have any agree. And I don't know how much. much I do know that there are certain teams and maybe these are lower G5 teams that get their entire football budget from one home and home agreement, you know, but I think that obviously the college football power fan, power four fan gains absolutely nothing by watching A&M play Abilene Christian. There's nothing to gain from that. Now, you might get to see some younger players, you might get a warm up game or you view it as a preseason game, but there's zero entertainment value from any of those games that were G5.

And these are low G5. I'm even talking about the G5 conferences that go into the conference. I'm talking about, you know, teams that don't belong on the same field at all. Like, it's just, it's a mess. And I wish that we would get to a place where everybody just plays power five teams or power four teams. Sorry. But that's a super league and some people don't want that. So, yeah.

But, you know, I do think that it'd be cool to keep them in the system so that every, everybody has a chance to use their regular season to get that final spot and maybe go on a Cinderella run. It keeps everybody engaged. But like if you're telling me that there are fans out there that are amped up to watch Abilene Christian come into their stadium, that does not exist. It doesn't. There's no market for that. Exactly. So and that's the thing.

Maybe maybe you require 11 power conference games and one group of six game to guarantee that everybody schedules that team instead of an FCS. And then you completely cut off FCS because there's no reason for that. And that's fine. You know, but there's no reason to be playing each other. When's the last time an FCS team beat a power team? I mean, are we going all the way back to App State? No, Georgia Southern beat Florida as an FCS team, but Georgia Southern is not an

SCS team anymore. Yeah. And FD isn't either. Yeah. So, you know. Yeah, all of those. those that were threats to win those games are now in the FBS. And now in the FBS, right.

So. But I wish that like we were in charge of coming up, but like these people have, they are in this beautiful hotel and they're just in Rancho's pal. Come on. Come on. Come on. Encentivize. Incenivize. Incenovize.

Agreed. Yes. Incentivize. And look, I bet the TV networks might throw a little more dough your way if you would just give them better games. But like from a, from a television, viewership standpoint. and Andy. What's what's the viewership difference if between Ohio State, Ball State, and week one, which every Ohio State person on the face of the earth will line up to watch,

no matter who they're playing versus versus, versus, uh, I don't know. Utah. Utah. Is the, is the viewership? Ohio State Houston. Yeah, Ohio State Houston. Like does the viewership go up by 40? I would bet. I would bet you get in the two million. for Ohio State Ball State, and I would bet you get over $4 million for Ohio State Houston. You double it. Okay, well, then it's worth it. Yeah.

Yeah, you play Ohio State against any halfway decent competitive power conference team, that is ratings gold. Because Fox is making their nut back on their initial investment with these crappy games. They're not losing money. Right. So if you give them an ability to double their viewership on the crappy games, games, then their revenue goes up and they'd be more really.

Well, you double their viewership, because it's not a crappy game. It's a good game at that point. And then what does that mean? The person who's making more money will be more likely to shell out more money to the actual institutions that are engaging in the games or the conferences that are selling the rights. Exactly. Okay. I think we've solved everything.

Great. Enjoy your conference meetings, everybody. We fixed it. All right. All right. Let's go to VolQuest. This thread was started by Govalls 14. And it is a quote from Auburn coach Alex Gullish,

former Tennessee offensive coordinator about Tennessee's offense. He said, I left the SEC three and a half years ago and it was us and Ole Miss running that style of offense. And because Jeff Levy was still a little Miss doing a version of it. And I come back and there's, we've got six teams on our schedule this year, including Southern Miss,

that do a version of what we do from a big picture scheme standpoint. And we've all evolved. You look at Tennessee, which Auburn plays this year, by the way. This is the first chance I've really had to, chance to study them this spring and they don't look anything like i looked but like they looked when i was there and alice golish's last year as the tennessee oc was 22 this was this this is a hot topic on the vol quest message board this people people got into this and i i'm fascinated by this

sorry because this has been a conversation that's been had at tennessee and this is a tennessee conversation there's also an auburn conversation there's also an c c conversation because so the offense we're talking about is the old Baylor offense, the Art Bryle's offense at Baylor, which Josh Heiple didn't grow up running. That's not what he ran when he was at Oklahoma, but it is what he picked up after being fired by Oklahoma, resurrected his career, allowed him to become a head coach. He brought that offense to Tennessee with him and was very successful with it at first. But it got criticized a lot because NFL teams said that the receivers didn't run the whole route

tree, quarterbacks weren't really taught to read the field the same way that they need to do it in the NFL. And now you have Alice Golish, who still runs that offense, or at least at USF, ran a pretty pure version of that offense, who says Tennessee doesn't even do that anymore.

Which then brings up the question, because like the thing with that is Tennessee was getting negged a lot in the recruiting circles by running this offense by saying you're not developing your players, which then makes it harder to sign players, right? Isn't that, Wasn't that like the scapegoe used when he left? Yes, it was. He wasn't like being.

And the craziest thing is if you look like, you call up a Joey Aguilar or Tennessee highlight tape because Joey Aguilor only spent the one season there. So it's just from 2025. You look at that versus a Hendon Hooker 2002 highlight tape. You can tell just from the formations that it's not the same offense anymore. So what does Tennessee want though? Does Tennessee want to go back?

to like the Henden Hooker days? Or are they happy that there's an evolution here? You want the production, but I don't see, and I think this is where Josh Heppel is smart. And I think this is what Alex Gulloch is getting at as well. You can't go back. It's over. That's over because,

so I covered it a lot when Briles and Baylor were running this. And Briles and his staff kind of took me behind the curtain on that offense. And like the story behind that offense is, crazy because it goes back to when Art Bryos was a high school coach and he's trying to get basketball players and other players to come out for football and, you know, wanted to make it fun. He also had a playoff game in Texas where they lost because the other team ran the ball like 22 out of 23 plays in the fourth quarter and just play keepaway. And he's like, I can never put myself in that position again.

I have to have an explosive offense. And so he creates this offense where the receivers wind up. line up as wide as humanly possible. And you can tell when somebody's running that version of the offense by our receivers lined up outside the numbers on both sides of the ball, which no other offenses did that before this. And it's advantageous because what it does is it forces the defense to declare how it's going to play you.

it's much easier for the quarterback to know if it's man or zone. They know exactly how many people are in the box. So you can either check to a run or you're running an RPO. It makes the run decision very easy. But defenses adjust. Now, they kept that offense a pretty big secret when Bryl's and company were at Baylor. They didn't clinic it. They didn't give it away to friends necessarily.

Once Briles got fired and all those guys needed jobs, they started telling other people about it. They started helping people with it. They all went to different schools and then it proliferated the game. Everybody had it. So now, and that's what Goldish is talking about. Like he comes into an SEC where that offense isn't the change up anymore. Defensive coordinators have seen it a bunch of times and they know what they're doing. So now Tennessee.

is in a position where they have to adjust or have adjusted offensively. They have adjusted, yeah. They have adjusted offensively and they have a new scheme, but they have yet to, is just a statistically accurate, Andy? They have not been as productive on offense since Henn to Hucker left in any given year, right? Like they got much better last year. They were productive last year. They were just bad at defense.

Yeah. They had their best year offensively last year since Hennon Hucker, right? Correct. Correct. It was the defense that let them down. And so it's, it's, interesting like Chris Brazel who just left left Tennessee got asked about it as a Carolina Panther and he says every route I ran every route I've run at Carolina I ran at Tennessee.

Tennessee is definitely evolving the playbook. They're getting more pro style. Chris Brazel never played in the Alaskolish version of the office because remember he transferred from Tulane. So Tennessee fans were fired up to read that quote, right? They weren't mad about it, right? They were happy. Oh, they're thrilled. And so It's interesting because that is the debate on the message board is, is this good news for Tennessee that Alex Golish is saying this? Because who would know better than the guy who called the offense? Yeah.

And hopefully that means that you're a more attractive, like that quote from Chris Brasel makes it easier to land a receiver in the future. Because he was awesome and he's in the pros now and he's saying those things. They run the complete route tree. You know, I think that that's good. you know, but God, if it wasn't fun to watch Henn and Hooker play, man. Oh, it was. And so that, like I said, this is a Tennessee conversation.

This is also an Auburn conversation. This is also an SEC conversation because Jeff Levy still runs a fairly pure version that offense at Mississippi State. Camario Taylor, who I believe we're going to talk about a little bit with our friend Cody Belair coming up, Camaro Taylor is a very excited quarterback. and they run a more pure version of that offense. When Levy was the O.C. at Ole Miss and in Oklahoma, he ran a more pure version of that offense.

Lane Kiffin runs a version of that offense. He loved that offense. I remember talking to Lane when he was at FAU. And so when Lane gets hired as an analyst at Alabama after getting fired at USC, Nick Sabin sends him around and says, study all these offenses, these new offenses, and come back to me and tell me what you learned. And the one lane liked the best was the Bryles Baylor offense.

And Sabin at that point was like, I don't know if I'm ready to go that extreme. Because that offense, when it's run in its uncut form, like you don't have out routes, you don't have corner routes, you take away some of the stuff you can do on the sidelines in favor of being able to read the defense more easily. And what you're seeing with Tennessee is SEC defenses are so athletic that they can cover that stuff and still disguise some of the things they do. So now Josh Heppel has gone back to kind of a more traditional... There are athletes in SEC defenses that they're not exist in the Big 12

and Browns was doing his thing. Correct, correct. And so that's why Josh Heeple's had to adapt. And again, if you watch 2000, 25 Tennessee film. It is a wide variety of formations, far more routes than we used to see. Well, we'll see Tennessee.

Big year for you. Yeah. Big year for you. Yeah, they're bringing Jim Noles to run the defense. He gets to, you know, he's brought some of the players who were with him at Penn State because I think with Jim Noles,

that was sort of the issue when he went to Ohio State and then he goes to Penn State. In both cases, he didn't get to really bring anybody with him. and so Ohio State it took a year or so for everybody to lock in and get it. Penn State, you're not bringing it. Like nobody's leaving Ohio State to go to Penn State. And so he didn't really have anybody who had played in it.

Now he's got some guys who've played in it playing at Tennessee. And then on the other side of the ball, you're going to have a quarterback, be it George McIntyre or Phazon Brandon, who this is the offense they came into, this version of it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm happy that we at least said Faison Brandon's name once when talking about Tennessee, because you got to have the five-star guy in there somewhere. Absolutely. And they may have the five-star guy in. I mean, we don't know how Heeple's going to decide, but they may have the five-star guy in. Yeah. Well, that was a good off-season ball conversation. Huh? I love it. Football. Football.

Oh, God. There's a day coming where we don't talk about how many teams are in the playoff. We just, we talk about all games and players and, oh. And no lawyers. Let's talk about. And judges. Oh, stop it. Let's talk about players. Let's talk about players.

We'll head to the inside Texas message board. And that'll help us reach our friend Cody Bullaire. Because he's going to join us to tell us about the best transfers that. maybe we're not quite talking about yet. You're going to need to know these people's names. So let us go to the Inside Texas message board. Next, we head to the Inside Texas message boards where Ian Boyd has written a very, very interesting column,

and this has produced a very fun thread on the Inside Texas message boards. So the column is the three laws that are reshaping how teams build championship rosters, and I highly recommend everybody read. But in general, it's, you know, revenue sharing has changed the game. The Pareto Principle is at play, which is your 20, 80% rule. And smart team building now wins championships. And smart team building has a lot to do. And the Pareto Principle part has a lot to do with how you distribute your money.

And a lot of that has to do with positional value and deciding between investing in high school players versus investing in the portal and what position. should you get out of high school, what position should you get out of the portal? I think Texas has done a good job with this. One of the things they did this offseason is completely revamp their running back room through the transfer portal. And that is where we bring in our friend Cody Belair. National Scout four rivals.

He sees all these guys. Cody, you evaluate them out of high school. Now you evaluate them as they're in college. You've worked in college personnel departments. And I find this absolutely fast. fascinating. We're going to talk about the transfers who could really pop this season. Two of those guys are Texas Longhorns now. Relique Brown, a running back from Arizona State and Hollywood Smothers are running back from NC State. And Cody, talk us through this transformation of the Texas running back room. Right. I think, well, first off, to your point, I think you got to talk about the job that Brandon Harris and Sark have done at University of of Texas. Those guys have done such a good job of managing the roster, but more importantly,

like you said, managing the money. And I think to your point, Andy, you talk about is there positional value? How do we weigh, you know, overpaying certain position groups and whatnot? But I tell you what, you look at Texas's running back room last year compared to 2024. 2024, they're one of the top running teams in the country and went to the playoff. 2025, I think they finished 80 seconds. 86th in the run game. But to that point, and to be frank, between you guys, I think these two are going to be the ones that make or break this offense. And I say that because Arch is Arch, right? He's going to be productive. He's going to be the leader of this team. However, Texas is going to have to take the pressure off of him. So he isn't forced to carry the load the entire season. And the way

they do that, in my opinion, is by running the damn ball. And these two backs have proven they're awfully good at doing just that with smothers averaging nearly six yards of carry last year, totaling over 900 yards on the ground. And Relie Brown had an equally impressive year himself. He averaged 6.1 yards of carry and ran for over 1,100 yards last year. And you know, let's say they can't move the ball on the ground, right? And the offensive line struggles to dominate the line of scrimmage. Both of these backs can be weapons in the passing game. Both smothers and Brown each caught over 30 passes last year. So even if Texas can't seem to get the ground game going similar to last season, these two backs will absolutely play a pivotal role in

the offense. You know, Andy, what I find interesting is like there's an equation of how to build a team. Where do you, you know, allocate your money towards high school players, which positions have the most value? And I think that, you know, given the fact that we're so early on into this thing, you know, people might think that they have it all figured out because of what happened last year. And like, just because Indiana had their money allocated in a certain way, doesn't mean that that's going to translate to the next team that moves the same way. I think every single year, the way that people allocate their funds is going to be a moving, living organism that changes on a year-to-year basis. I don't think that anyone's ever going to come up with like a blueprint equation that

is this is the way you need to do it every single year. But Cody, since you are a personnel person and you might be the GM of the Cleveland Browns one day, hope that you can get a better job than that. Take me through your the best way to allocate money. How would you do it if you were in charge of Bama tomorrow? That's a great. I didn't realize I was interviewing today. That's so awesome. You are. Yeah. Someone's probably going to see this. So don't mess it up. So to me, there's a lot of different ways to do it. Right. And to your point are you actually took the words right out of my mouth. There used to be a blueprint on how to do this, or at least a strategy that a lot of teams felt comfortable doing. Now that doesn't really exist. And I think the ultimate thing that college football

now has with the transfer portal is quote unquote sure things, right? Like you have safer bets. And so I think utilizing the transfer portal to your advantage, especially if you're one of these blue blood rosters or you have these funds where, you know, I think somebody put out an article yesterday. I think Brandon Harris actually talked about this on a podcast was the 30, million dollar mark is what these teams are shooting for. And so if you have a 30 million plus dollar roster, you can really go hunt and make a run at this at the playoff. And so to me, the best way to do that, if you're going to take strategic shots, especially out of the high school level, go get as many sure things as you can. I think you see Texas Tech doing a really good job of this. And they've been

doing this for the last two years. And the high school level, they're going for dudes. So, What colleges used to do is take, you know, 25, 30 guys out of high school and fingers crossed, half of them hit, right? You always told yourself, if you had a 50% hit rate, you smoked it. You can't afford to do that now. That's 50% of, let's say that's 13 players, 14 players of just dead money. Now, if you go that route. So what teams are doing and what Texas Tech specifically is doing, they're saying, hey, let's just go laying 13 kids this cycle and we're going to pay our asses off for 11 of them. and we're going to get surefire dudes, right? And so I think that's the way you build it out of high school, giving yourself as many hits and guys that you expect to play in year one, year two at the latest. And then the other way you supplant the rest of your roster is by portal. You build depth through the portal,

and you build starting weapons blue chip players out of the portal. Now, Texas has pretty much done that along the line of scrimmage, although there are a few portal, because they got an offensive tackle from Wake Forest this year. And then Hero Canoe was a really good addition through the portal from Ohio State on the defensive line last year year and is going to start again this year. But getting back to the running back thing,

you pointed out, until you pointed out the stat, I did not realize just how much the running back room had underachie. I knew it wasn't great because they replaced the whole thing. But number 84 in yards per carry last year. year. 84. And do that. Right.

And I think, go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry. Well, I was going to ask, running back, we talk about, like, it's a big thing in the NFL, that the running back positional value is low and they don't pay them very much. I've had a bunch of people tell me it's a higher positional value in college. Right.

How much higher are we talking about? I don't think it's necessarily like, oh, you got to view it as like a number one wide receiver deal. But the thing is a three. dimensional back at the college level just alleviate so many issues at the college game that are almost a given at the NFL level, right? So a guy that can go out there and be a weapon on first and second down between the tackles and scrap those four yards. Those guys are awesome at the college level and they are extremely value. But look at a guy like Cam Scataboo, right? For Arizona

State, that's the guy I think of. Cam Scataboo was a weapon every single time he stepped between the white lines, right? There's, because you knew he was a threat on first and second down because he was going to run through your face. But on third down, they could line him up in the slot. They could use him as a weapon on screens or the underneath passing game. There's just something that a running back that can do it all allows your offense to essentially move without changing a ton of personnel.

And now in the game, to tie this back to NIL, right, investing money into one person that can fill the job of two to three different players is how you maximize your money at the college game. Well, and I'm looking at Relic Brown right now, six yards of carry, and as you mentioned, 34 receptions last year, Hollywood Smothers, equally versatile weapon.

I don't. It is going to be more fun to watch this offense this year. No question. I don't want to oversimplify it, but if they had one player that could turn a one yard out or a swing pass into an 80-yard touchdown last year. Are they like a national championship contender? Like, maybe not because their off the line was bad,

but like nobody could turn anything into something. Ryan Wingo, the first play against Vandy. That's that's the one time it happened and they won a big game because of it. Yeah, and to your point, Andy, the issue is Ryan Wingo was being, was forced to be in a role that he should not be in. And this is no disrespect to Ryan Wingo, but he does have ball tracking issues. and when your wide receiver one has ball tracking issues, that is a problem. You cannot utilize his skill set as effectively as you can.

Insert Cam Coleman, you now allow Ryan Wingo to be this complimentary piece for this offense as opposed to being the go-to-X wide receiver. You don't have to have him do that job anymore. But now with Cam Coleman coming in, it allows for guys like Ryan Wingo, guys like Raleek and Hollywood Smothers, that you can sort of play around with these gadget type of receivers and just go let the good guys do good guy things. Be careful, Cody.

You're giving me a long horn. This happens a lot. This happens a lot. Let's stay at the receiver position since you brought up, you know, Cam Coleman going to Texas. You have a receiver that you are very high on who we've talked about quite a bit on the show, but I feel like people are much more concentrating on Darry and Mintsa, the quarterback from Duke going to Miami, not as much on Cooper Barcate, who was his top receiver

at Duke also going to Miami. And look, they still have Malachi Tony. Malachi Tony is their best offensive player. There's no debate about this. But how does Cooper Barcate help Darian Mensa and Malachi Tony and the rest of that offense? Right. And you took it right from my notes here. I mean, I think it's one of the more slept on move from the cycle because he's not even the Duke Blue Devil that people are talking about. Obviously, with Malik Hittoni and Darren Minza coming in, I expect Barcate to play a huge role for this Miami Hurricanes football team. And for those of you that are unfamiliar with Cooper Barcate's game, I mean, he led Duke in every receiving category last year. And he was a second team all-ACC player. And before that, he was a FCS second-team all-American

at Harvard, this is a guy that's played in almost 40 collegiate games with almost 200 career receptions. So this is someone who's coming into Miami not only with a lot of experience on his own at the position, but he's got such a strong rapport with the incoming starter at quarterback. So I think Barcate, what he brings to this Miami team is this sort of security blanket for Dary and Minson and the offense that's going to pair so nicely with Malikaitoni. And don't forget, I'm not saying Barcate will never. necessarily be stealing targets for Malikaitoni. That's not what this is.

The Miami receiver room lost over a hundred catches to the draft this year, with Keel and Marion and C.J. Daniels going to the league. So there's plenty of targets to go around. And in any way you can basically make Dary and Mentsa feel more comfortable back there by giving him a target that he knows he can rely on, you do that. And I think Miami did such a good job of rounding out this receiver room. Yeah, between Mentsa and Fletcher, and Barcate and baby Jesus.

This looks like maybe the best offense or one of the best most well-rounded offenses in college football. Right. And the thing is, to your point, Ari, I mean, the only question I think you would say you have maybe is the offensive front, and I will not doubt a Mario Crystal Ball offensive front.

So I assume they will reload at that position. Hey, it looks like Jackson Cantwell is going to walk into a starting job. No question. Number one offensive line recruiting the country. And this is what we were just talking about in terms of roster. construction. That is the type of human being you pay because there are very few human beings like that. So you pay them out of high school. Correct. And it's essentially like you said, Jackson Cantwell is not being brought in to, you know, develop and hopefully he gets stronger

in the weight room and you get him in the starting rotation by year three. No, no. That kid's getting asked to play right now. And that's what you're investing. You don't have a million and a half or however much Jackson Can't well made sitting on the bench. You can't afford to do that now. Your window's that type. Hey, Cody, let's move to a place that you once worked. LSU has a lot of players that are very exciting, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Sam Levitt was your initial claim to fame on this show, right?

You were the first one to peg his stardom, and then it happened. But there's somebody on the defensive side of the ball in the secondary that stands out to you. Tell us a little bit more about Ty Benefield and honestly, LSU's total team talent. Sure. And I mean, LSU definitely went and got some big spender status solidified this offseason, not only with the headball coach, but with this transfer cycle. And I tell you what, you guys mentioned it. Right. I mean, that's my alma mater. I know a lot of folks over there and a lot of good friends. And I tell you what, they have not shut up about this cat since he walked in that building. I mean, you know, you got Sam Levitt, like you mentioned, Jordan Seton, who's potentially a top 10 pick, Prince Willouman Mia. Ellen, who's got, great genes, also a really high draft pick projection. Don't get me wrong, those guys are going to have strong seasons. But seriously, when I tell you that Boise State transfer, Ty Benefield has been the talk of spring ball.

I mean, they have not stopped raving about this cat since the first practice. The text I got about him said verbatim, quote, this guy is the best player on our defense and it's not even close. He's the guy every coach brags about after every single practice. I mean, they said he's better than AJ Halsey, who transferred in from Houston last year and made a huge impact on this Blake Baker defense and ultimately ended up being a third round pick. But that's the kind of impact they expect Benefield to make on this defense. He's a three-dimensional safety. He can play man coverage.

He can play single high. He's a downhill defender against the run. He's the kind of playmaker LSU needs in the back half of the secondary to bring down ball carriers and get his hands on the football. I mean, last year at Boise State, he led the team in tackles with 107 total tackle. And he picked off two passes. So if he's able to have that kind of impact for this defense, I think the Tigers might be a more complete team than people are giving them credit for. Tell the end of talking about patience, dude.

I don't want to hear about it. Well, needless to say, at Boise State, he did not have DJ Pickett taking away a side of the field, which I think that having having a five tool safety and then having a true shutdown corner, that's the ultimate way to start for a defense. Now you throw a couple of good pass rushers in there and you're in business. Right. And I think that's something they really took to heart this past year

is because you can tell by the way they, again, this is sort of the beauty of the NIL area. You can tell where teams invested, right? You can tell where they said, hey, we're going to have rotational front up there. There's eight guys on that LSU defensive line that can get after the quarterback. And they feel confident that that's going to allow

that back half of the secondary to roam free. And if you give a guy like Ty Benefield, if you take the leash off, those guys are going to go hunt. I'm very excited about LSU, period. But it's interesting because Leavitt gets so much attention because he's the quarterback and he's the quarterback Lane Kiffin shows. But it is this, it's the additions like this that make the difference between are you a playoff continue year one and are you not? You know, what's interesting here too, guys, is that, you know, Andy and I are probably going to work on top, you know, offseason post-spring top 25s. And like, do we just cover three of the top five teams in the country?

Or is this just a symptom of how you could get excited about 20 different teams this year? Like how from an LSU standpoint, we know that the Lane Kiffin Circus has arrived and it's beautiful and it's been fun to watch. But we talk about Sam Levitt and Tradez Green and all the players they have on offense, Jordan Seaton, as you mentioned. And then you go to the defensive side of the ball and you start talking about a five-star corner and one of the best safeties in the country. like how many ingredients do you need before you start expecting LSU to be a legitimate national championship contender in year one? I mean, you've got five guys there.

You got the quarterback. You got a freak tight end. You have one of the best offensive tackles in the country, one of the best safeties and in a shutdown corner. Like aren't those like the five most important positions in the transfer portal? Yeah. And all right, to your point, I mean, the point that this show, the base of the show, right, was like, hey, potential impact transfers.

and it's exactly like you asked me just a second ago, right? Like, how do you build a team? If you had a blueprint, how would you do it? Every team we've mentioned so far, they got the bankroll to bring in talent. And that's sort of the name of the game now. And so the way you have to build competitive rosters and these teams, like you said,

are these three of the top maybe five teams in the country? They could be. And you know why? Because they can afford it. And not only can they afford it, they built it, quote unquote, correctly. right or as you would say you look at it from the outside in you're like i don't see a lot of holes in these teams rosters and they the ones that can afford to do that we'll do it and two of the three

teams that we're talking about didn't even make the playoff last year we haven't even talked about bama we haven't talked about georgia or ohio state indiana yet like i got another one rari okay you go in the same boat you got another one they got the money they got a new coach they have an experienced edge rusher following the new coach. I'm not talking about Principal Uman Mieland Mieland following Lane Kiffin. I am talking about John Henry Daley following Kyle Whittingham. Now, Cody, this is maybe even a little bit different situation than LSU

where Michigan did not do a ton in the portal because they didn't have to. They felt good about what they had, even though they had a coaching change. There wasn't a mass exodus. But John Henry Daly does come from Utah. and was limited in the spring because of an injury last year. What are we going to see from him when they unleash him on the field? Yeah, I really do think it's, you know, the edge position is obviously just so important in the game of football.

But even then, I still feel like a guy like John Henry Daley isn't talked about enough because this is a guy that's, I mean, he's a projected first round pick. And I think, you know, there's obviously guys that we talk about that warrant this attention, guys like Dylan Stewart and Colin Simmons, but even last year, right? Guys like Rubin Bain and David Bailey and Cassius Howl, they all popped off. And I completely understand why they get some national attention. But John, John Hedin-Da-Daly, he had 17 and a half TFLs last year and over 10 sacks. And he finished sixth in the country in pass rush win percentage. which was one spot ahead of David Bailey and two spots ahead of Colin Simmons.

One of those guys was the second pick in the draft. And the others considered a virtual lock as a top 10 in next year's cycle. And you know, with that being said, this is a Michigan front that loses two top 100 picks to the draft this past cycle. And I think to your point, Andy, this is a guy that's going to come in and replace that lost production with ease because of the familiar area with the head. coach, right? And not only that, the defensive coordinator is Jay Hill, who is the DC at BYU. Do you guys know where John Henry Daley signed out of high school? It's BYU. And that was his decontator first freshman season. So between the head ball coach, the DC, the impressive production, I just feel like this is, and you know, there's no such thing as a sure thing, but

this feels like one of the safer, high impact projections for one of the top defensive player in the country that I feel like nobody's hardly talking about right. Cody, the thing I want to know about him, because obviously everyone knows, to your point, I think that he's been kind of under the radar a little bit, but at the same time, how does serious injury impact your value when you're going through? When you say sure thing, that is a kind of a curveball in that regard. How does serious injury impact a player's value in the off season? And is there anything to be afraid of when you say most impactful players when it comes

to somebody coming off an injury that serious? Yeah, sure. I think if he was going into a situation where he is an unknown commodity for the head coach and for the DC, to me, the impact of injury and like coming off of something like that, it matters more to me if you're going into a situation that no one's familiar with you, right? Like there's a lot of unknowns that they have to sort of check off. The head ball coach in Michigan and the de coordinator, no, I would assume anything in everything in every. everything about this kid. So they know what's the status of that injury. How was rehab going? Like how winning him has been with him ever since it happened. So I'm assuming he's got updated every single breath that kid's taken since he's been hurt, right? He also knows exactly how he's

going to use him. There's there's going to be no tinkering or anything like that. To me, that's the biggest factor with this. Ari is not even the injury that makes me feel safe. Obviously, the injury, you know, you never know how someone's going to come out of it or whatever. But it is nice when you have an inside source in the building, right? If you're Kyle Whittingham being like, look, I know this kid, I know his family, I know anybody that's dealt with him over the last however many months dealing with this injury, but I know exactly what I'm getting when he does come back. And if he is healthy, I know the exact player that's going to come in and fill this gap for our defense. But that also is the most gnarly football injury or injury in general is

totally overcome, right? Like we're talking about a rupture to killies here. Right, no question. And I do think there is obviously an inherent risk in that. But I do think even, let's say, if John Henry Daly's not to full strength and that could impact his draft value, the player that I think you're going to see on Saturdays is still very similar to the one that we saw last season. And when he is healthy, what is it that makes him so effective? Because like we talk about Dylan Stewart. We've had the conversation about Dylan Stewart this week, in fact, about traits and production. and, you know, he's everything you want traits-wise, but his production wasn't great.

Colin Simmons, better production, maybe not perfect from a trait standpoint. John Henry Daly, 6, 4, 255. So, like, if you're an NFL GM, you're looking at him, like, okay, he looks, what's the part? But what does he do on the field that makes him so special? There's three things. It's motor, technique, and get off.

That's the things that John Henry Daley does that allow him to essentially be a pain in the butt for opposing offensive. tackles every single snap. It's sort of similar to Ruben Bain and the way Ruben Bain maybe isn't the most physically gifted player under the sun. And, you know, he didn't really test like the most athletically gifted player in the sun. But Ruben Bain's giving you Ruben Bain every single snap. John Henry Daley does a lot of the same things. But John Henry Daley's got tremendous getoff. He chases from the backside. But his hand usage is phenomenal. It is very, very,

very rare you see John Henry Daley engaged with offensive tackles very long. He does a great job of hand swipes, keeping his chest clean, and essentially make himself available to get after the ball carriers every single snap. How do you test for motor? Is that just film? Just 100%. Honestly. Or like TFLs or being able to like sort of like your average depth of tackle is another

good one too. Like you can see if guys are making plays at the line of scrimmage or behind the line of scrimmage or are they guys that sort of get blown off the ball and just happen to find themselves at the ball carry. I always looked at it as like it's a film thing because you can see when somebody's taking a play off. No question. Most it's most de linemen have to have to because I don't think people understand the the amount of energy that has to be exerted when you're that big and you have to sprint and chase every play. Because the offensive of I don't have to do that. In high school, when they coach made us run laps, he would be on one side of the field,

and then you would have to run around the entire football field. I would just shrug my shoulders while walking when far away from him, so he couldn't tell I wasn't running. Yeah, you're doing your best. Yeah. That's my motor. That's my motor. That's my motor.

No question. Yeah, that's how I was running polls for baseball. I was like, well, I'm going to finish last. I might as well make it look like I'm trying hard. yeah so but yeah yeah the motor thing like like you can you can tell on film every snap and you just have to count them up like who yeah because there are guys who don't take plays off who whose energy doesn't flag while they're on the field and and they're rare and when you find them that's that's exactly right and to your point exactly i think it's it's very easy to see when guys do

play take plays off because it is such a like energy like is it is an exhausting position in itself especially as an interior guy and you can tell when guys are sort of like not firing off the ball and stuff like that but it's almost also the opposite it's very obvious to see when a guy does play with that high effort because you do see everyone else you're like oh it's second down and you know he's kind of taking it easy off the ball a little bit or oh it's third and 11 and the interior guys are just sort of standing up and playing patty cake for it down. The guys that play with their hair on fire, you see it every single play. It's very obvious on tape.

Cody, when it comes to film breakdown, I think that the next player we're going to talk about is kind of a harder proposition because he doesn't have a ton of it. But obviously one of the college football sensations, people are going to be wanting to watch Oklahoma State for this. This kid is Drew Mestamaker. What do you see on film from somebody who is still maybe learning the position and how excited should Oklahoma State fans be for for this kid? I'm excited to talk about Drew because there's there's a lot of there's obviously a ton

of quarterbacks that you can argue about having impacts for their teams in the upcoming season and I you know I could have picked five quarterbacks for this and maybe we'll have a conversation about slept on quarterbacks at some point but yeah right after this sure perfect. I don't want to single out when it comes to impact right. I think it's important to clarify how I interpreted impact especially at the quarterback position because obviously there's going to be guys. that have transferred to some real national title contenders,

guys like Josh Hoover and Sam Levitt, like we mentioned earlier. But Messonemakers got the chance to do something at Oklahoma State that they haven't seen in two years, which may sound hard to believe when I say it, but it's win a conference game. The fact Oklahoma State fans haven't seen their team win a conference game in two years just doesn't feel possible. And Ari, I'll ask you,

can you tell me what the final score was when Oklahoma State played Colorado in 20? That's a wild trivia question. They lost 52 to zero. So Andy, do you know what the final score was when they played Texas Tech last year? Oh, God. No, because I didn't watch it because I already knew it was going to happen. Yeah, it was 42 to zero.

Oklahoma State isn't supposed to get shut out of football games. And with Drew Messermaker and Eric Morris at the helm, I don't see that happening. This is an offense that led the country in scoring, averaging 45 points a game. Mestemaker was the only Division 1 FBS QB to throw for over 4,000 yards last year. And to your point, Ari, that was in Mestermaker's first year as a full-time starter, essentially ever. So I think this is someone who's still very much ascending. And to me, the real kicker, when you look at Mestermaker in Oklahoma State, and in this offense in general, they bring in a guy like Caleb Hawkins as well,

who very well could have been on this list. But this is a conference that is wide-ass open in the Big 12. You know, BYU is probably the favorite at this point, while Texas Tech's dealing with the Soresby issue, and Utah loses Kyle Whittingham, and Arizona State loses Sam Levitt. And, I mean, look at a team like Houston, right? They finished 12th in the conference in 2024.

They finished fourth last year. So I say all that to say, I wouldn't be the least bit shocked. If Messermaker takes that next step in his progression, and goes out there and lights still water on fire. I can't wait for the Oregon Oklahoma State game. It's not like I think Oklahoma State is necessarily going to win, but I feel like it'll be a good measuring stick of how much they improved

just by hiring Eric Morris and bringing in all these new guys. If I were Eric Morris, I think that you could improve your team by Wednesday of that week, as long as you don't go on a radio show complaining about NIL before it. Yeah, I mean, like, you guys look at the schedule right there. What games are you 100% sure they're probably going to lose? Texas Tech, maybe, but probably I don't even know if I feel that way. That's where I'm at.

Like, I really see two losses maybe where you're like, yeah, they're for sure going to lose. Other than that, they can at least compete, right? At Houston could be rough. Right. At Arizona State might be rough, but by then maybe we'll think it's, different. Correct. I mean, the thing that is hard about Oklahoma State is that they do have Drew Mestimaker in the picture and they did bring some guys from North Texas. But their roster was so

bad last year from top to bottom and discombobulated. Like how, and I know that we're in the era of one offseason cures all. Like when it comes to a rebuild, you would think that Oklahoma State was probably at the top of the hardest rebuild list in the off season. So, like, as far as me getting excited, I'm excited to watch Mestamaker. I'm excited to see everything that you just said. I don't have a great grasp of how far behind the total roster talent still is in comparison to some of the other teams. Sure. And I, to your point, Ari, I'm looking at it now because I'm trying to, I remember I saw the number the other day.

And maybe I can get a fact check on this. Did they bring in 64 new players? Yes, it was in the 60s. Yeah. I don't know if it's 64, but it was a lot. Sure. But it's something like that. like that, right? And so in this day and age, obviously that's a ton of turnover. Now, a lot of

that, some of them are familiar names, right, because Coach Morris brought in a lot of some of those North Texas guys and especially at a lot of the impact positions, right, or at least in the two deep. But to your point, Ari, I mean, there's a lot of unknown, right? And there's a lot of question marks that come with bringing in transfers, but unknown doesn't necessarily equal bad. And we say that in evaluation all the time, right? Just because I have a question mark on something, doesn't mean I think he can't do something. It's that I just don't know. And if you bring the 10 best players from North Texas,

a team that won double-digit games last year, the 10 best players on North Texas were probably as good, if not better than the 10 best players that Oklahoma State has had the last few years. That's exactly right. So, like, they probably should be further along, but when you say, look at this schedule and tell me which games are for sure they're going to lose, like obviously Oregon and Texas Tech are probably one and two just because of what we know about them definitively. But I just, I'm very curious to see on September 26 what it looks like when they play West Virginia.

Absolutely. And that's, to be honest, that's probably the pivotal game because it is your first conference game. And it's the one that you sort of tell yourself like, I don't know how West Virginia is really looking. You know, I don't think a ton of people have West Virginia, no offense to West Virginia folks, but I don't know how many people have West Virginia sorted towards the top of the pecking order in the conference. And so if you go in that name and you lay an egg. UCF's a big unknown.

Like, they got Alonza Barnett coming in from JMU to be the quarterback. And it's hard to tell. So I checked, by the way, our On 3 transfer team rankings with the transfers in transfers out. So Oklahoma State had 65 players transfer out. They brought in 56 transfers. Now, when you add in high school signies, you're close to 80 new players.

Right. I mean, a complete overhaul. And again, this kind of goes back to that conversation we had earlier where we talk about how do you build this thing? How do you go about, oops, sorry, how do you go about revamping a roster? And I think you talk about Lane Kiffin with patience, right? Because Elaine said, hey, we got to be patient, whatever. Fans and admin do not live with, they do not accept. that. Now, when the fact that Oklahoma State literally brought in a new team this year,

it's not like you're saying, oh, yeah, well, wait for year two, year three. We'll actually get our pieces in place and, you know, figure things out. Nope, that's not how this works anymore. You have two years, almost three at maximum to prove that you can turn a team around. Because the amount of players you can flip on a roster is essentially unlimited in today's football. So telling yourself like, hey, we got two years to figure this out, three years to figure this out, or excuse me, by year four, we'll get, we'll get hit the ground running. That does not exist. No longer in this sport. It is, it is going to be amazing to watch. And that's why I love having people like you on our team, Cody, because. Sorry, not letting you do it yet.

One last thing. Remember the thing that we said we were going to talk about next? The quarterback, no, I don't need his rules for life. I know. Look at this guy's hair. You got great people. I'm sorry. I know that we're, I do this to you all the time and you can fire me if you want. But like we did talk about. I actually can't, but I'll talk to the people who can. I think if you told our bosses that I'm untenable to work with, I would have a problem.

I think. I don't think I have that kind of choose. But yes, I, okay, ask your slept on quarterback question, please. Slept on quarterback question. That's the question. Give us the new Sam Levin. Who's your next? love this guy and no one's talking about him, Cody.

I have, I have three that I feel kind of good about. Can I make a guess as to one of them? Sure. Is one of them replacing Sam Lennett? Oh, no, it's not. It's not Cudderbole. Okay. All right, let's go.

And I think Cudderbilly's got a shot. He's got some ability. Okay. It's two guys that are going to be in a tough situation. They're walking into tough situations. And one has been there, shown some life last year. But there's one that, very unproven and there's one that's like obviously very unproven so my first one's

camario taylor i think camario taylor in mississippi state is real deal good like this is a guy that has the athletic ability the arm talent and i think mississippi state was in some dog fights last year that didn't go their way that if they do especially this upcoming season that's a team that's going to be hunting for some bowl some bowl game maybe flirting with like seven win something like i think that's a team that's going to sort of arrive this upcoming year as for some transfers i have two guys for you to me the first one's kenny pick or excuse but keny picket keny minchie fake slide yeah kenny minchie the breakout player this year is going to be keny picket i think it's uh i think Kenny mince is going to go to kentucky and you know with

will stein the things that they did they brought in uh colton price from Baylor, the I think center or interior offensive lineman from Baylor. He was second team all big 12. They brought in Lance Hurd to play tackle. I think the year prior, you would say, oh, I don't know. Lance Hurd I think was 13tham all-s-ecc last year at Tennessee. So you bring in

Tech or Shabola who started Ohio State. Right. Like they brought in some weapons out there. And I think this is a team. Guys, I think we forget. Like, Kenny Minchie was borderline almost the starter? for Notre Dame going into the year.

And obviously C.J. Carr wins the battle. But guys, C.J. Car's, what, top of the Heisman odds right now? Yeah. If Kenny Minchie's totally good. Yeah. If Kenny Mitchie would do a toe to the-cats. That's if you actually believe that the competition was like that. I believe it.

I believe it. I believe it. I believe it. Okay. Yeah. I completely agree. And they almost, I mean, they almost brought in a transfer over those two guys. You know what I mean?

Like they knew it was going to be a fight. But I think C.J. Carr and Kinney really made it one of those deals where they said, hey, either way we go here, we're going to be successful. And clearly that was true. I think Kenny Minchie, what he's able to do with his legs and he's got armed talent, he can create on his own. He does a lot of good things. And I think this Kentucky offense, especially with Will Stein, they're going to figure it out a little bit, especially, I think they're going to hit the ground running. And then my last one, we won't go crazy in depth on it because it is a straight projection almost. I think Lincoln Keenholz. at Louisville is going to spray. Like with what Brom does at that position, I mean, he's had talented players, right? Like he had Miller Moss, Tyler Shuck for a year, and those guys all produced at a pretty quality level.

I think from a pure talent perspective, Keenholz might be one of the better ones he's had and he's going to get him not just for a year. Like he'll have him for two full seasons. So if Keenholz doesn't hit this year, I'm putting in an early investment for next year's Lincoln Keenholz because I think this kid's going to ball out. I trust Jeff Brom.

Exactly. We talk about coaches who can evaluate quarterbacks. Like if Jeff Brom says you're my guy, I feel pretty good about that. No question. I just think it's one of those things where he's going to sort of like plug and play. And everyone's going to be like, wow, didn't see Lincoln Keenholz come in and try, tear, you know, I didn't see him coming in and tearing it up like this. Did you not?

That's all Jeff Brom does is walk in and have guys throw for 3,000 plus yards. That's what he does. And the thing that Keenholds does different than those guys prior, this kid can run. He is a real athlete. And with him and Isaac Brown back there, good luck. They are going to score a lot. Now I'm looking at the ACC. It's competitive.

It's a competitive conference, man. I really do think we all kind of like, we're like, oh, ACC, you know, they're a power four, but they're not on that top two. And, you know, it's still big 10 in SEC ball. But guys, that ACC was dangerous last year. And there's a lot of like, how many teams won nine games in that conference last year? Or eight. Like, I think it was like six teams or seven teams in that conference. Like competitive is a nice sport.

Yeah. Yeah. The champion won seven in the regular season. Yeah, which is insane. insanity. But like, I mean, you look at that right there. There's going to be some good football teams next year. And we're not even talking about Heinzsche at Pitt.

That kid's a ball player. Like, there's a lot of talent. And Wake Forest, again, that was year one with the new head ball coach. I'm convincing myself, I'm going to watch a lot of ACC games. Yeah, what are you going to be tremendous? Hey, River clip that. Well, thanks, Cody, for being here. I appreciate you using descriptive words like spray,

get off and white ass open. It felt really good. But you know, your ball. We're happy that you were here, man. Thank you so much. I appreciate you guys very much, man. It's always a blast. Thank you, Cody. It has been a pleasure. And tomorrow, we are also going into our well of on three talent. Clark Brooks, our advanced stats guru, joins us to celebrate 100 days until college football with a look at the top 100 impact players for the 2026 season. We'll talk to you tomorrow. personality in the two-day, two-day window.