Andy & Ari On3 - Why Penn State fired James Franklin now | Candidates for the Nittany Lions' next coach

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to Andy and Ari on 3. You hear the siren. That's an emergency edition. We are Andy and Ari on 3 presented by BetMGM. And holy cow. James Franklin got fired by Penn State, Ari. James Franklin fired by Penn State on Sunday. They owe him about $49 million in buyout.

Starting point is 00:00:28 I... I didn't think this is going to happen so quickly. It makes sense. I understand it. But wow, this went fast. Yeah, it was much faster than either of us thought as you were on a walking trail with a six-pack of beer under your arm, right? But, like, at the same time, we both kind of had an idea last night show that this was the end of the road. It's funny because even Audrey Snyder, our former colleague at the athletic asked James Franklin an injury question in the post game last night.

Starting point is 00:00:55 He's out for the year. Like, you know how James Franklin is with injuries. It just, it felt like this was the end of the road. There was no coming back from it. Now, what wasn't anticipating it to happen on Sunday so quickly, but it just, you know, I guess what needs to be done should be done now. And it just, that's kind of the way it went. So there's one thing for sure.

Starting point is 00:01:14 This season was always 100% going to be a referendum on his coaching ability, whether you like it or not. 100% coming into the year, you say things like he said in the off season. We've got the best combination of coaching and personnel that we've had at time in Penn State. Penn State fans were tired of, you know, being in a position where they were very good, but not elite. This was the year they were supposed to do it. You know, you lose at home against Oregon. That's a tough game. You still have, you cannot in a year that's this important lose to UCLA, let alone UCLA and Northwestern. Exactly. It wasn't even the same old,

Starting point is 00:01:49 same old. It was infinitely worse. And there comes a point in the road where you know that's not the road you should be going down. And I think that's it. I think they just figured out that this thing had run its course. And I've got a lot of text from people since the news broke saying, well, why now? But there was never going to be a good time. This particular tenure had run its course. Like that what you had with James Franklin was a coach that could not win the games against the biggest opponents, but always won the games he was supposed to. Now you've lost the always win the games you're supposed to. And then what do you have after that at a program that aspires to win national titles. You have nothing. And so they have to eat the buyout,

Starting point is 00:02:31 which is massive, $49 million, basically $8 million a year. Now, here's the thing about the buyout. And I think this is going to be a conversation that we have a lot over the next few weeks because every buyout is different. Every buyout is let's own you a little unique snowflake. James Franklin's buyout is basically $8 million a year through 2013. But he has what's called a duty to mitigate. And what that means is he needs to try to find another job. Well, guess what? James Franklin isn't washed. There are programs that would love to have James Franklin as their coach that would love to pay James Franklin four to five million dollars a year to be their coach and would probably be happy. We said it last week on the show. You know, we said, who says no to James Franklin as

Starting point is 00:03:20 North Carolina's head coach. He gives you five to seven happy years of building up to what you want. And if that happens, so theoretically, if James, let's say James Franklin gets a job this year, gets paid $5 million a year, Penn State's on the hook for $3 million a year through 2013. That is $18 million. That is a manageable buyout, especially given the way it's structured. It's a mortgage payment. And compared to some of the other potential mortgage payments out there. It's not a bad one. Yeah. And, you know, you want to invest in something that you think can work. And I think that, you know, looking back at James Franklin's tenure, it's kind of a complicated thing because on one hand, you know, he is currently being

Starting point is 00:04:06 defined by the inability to get over the hump, but he defined the hump that they wanted to get over. Um, you know, so it's just, you know, I think in this sport sometimes, Andy, we take for granted all the winning that is done over teams that you're supposed to beat of which he was a master. Yeah. And as a result of it, Penn State knew that it had a baseline. It was going to win nine, ten games a year at the worst. This year, you know, we tried to analyze going into the season.

Starting point is 00:04:34 Well, even if he loses to Oregon, he'll have a chance against Ohio State. Even if he loses to Ohio State, he'll have a chance against Indiana or have a chance in the postseason. Like the thought that Penn State would make the playoff was, you know, second thought because he was so good at winning those games. And it's just so crazy to think that he was sitting on a podium two weeks ago with Nick Sabin, who was wearing a Nittany Lions outfit, and they were picking the Oregon game. And then here we are now when he's not even in his job. And I think that's the power of when you lose your team, when you lose games, you're not supposed to lose.

Starting point is 00:05:08 You know, Penn State has gotten to a point in large part based on what he did in his building to expect winning a national championship, to expect at least competing with those. teams and they weren't able to do that this year. And this was, you know, the type of roster it's like, well, if you're not doing it now, then when are you going to do it? Right. How much better are you possibly going to get? And like, you know, you can say all you want about Drew Aller. Obviously, he hadn't played this year up to the potential of some of the first round prognostications that he was getting both at the end of last year and coming into this year. You know, there are some personnel things on this team that were stopping them. But between Zane Durant and Nick Singleton and, you know, the receivers they brought in, Trevor Payne, their defense was good.

Starting point is 00:05:48 They spent $3 million on the coordinator. When you think about all the ingredients that it takes to compete at the highest level and to win a national championship, Penn State made that investment. They did that. Like Penn State did everything that it could from a resources and a buy-in standpoint to help their coach get over the top. And not only did he not get over the top. He tripped at the beginning. They didn't even started yet.

Starting point is 00:06:10 Right. And he tripped. So if you would have told me at the end of, of last year's college football playoff that he would be fired on October 12th of the following year. I would have at you with a side eye. But with the information that we have right now,

Starting point is 00:06:23 it seems like the reasonable thing to do. And quite frankly, I'm sure James Franklin, as he walked off the field being relentlessly booed by the entire band base, is probably ready for a new start too. And, you know, it's funny,

Starting point is 00:06:34 when he got that 10-year extension that was putting them in a position where this buyout is what it is, you know, I think that there was half of the fan base, I think at least, was at a cross-section of they were ready for a change then. Right.

Starting point is 00:06:48 You know, and I think that they did a pretty good job at that point of sustaining success and getting to where they were last year. Heck, if they have one more drive, they might be playing for the national championship last year. I think, but I think that there is something to say of this is as far as it was going to go. Yeah. And, you know, maybe we were a fool for thinking that it might be different, but it certainly wasn't this year. Matt Highthouse, with a good question. isn't the answer for all teams searching for coaches now to grab a sitting coach who can bring

Starting point is 00:07:17 players with them? Well, yeah, you're not going to hire Bill Belichick. You see all that worked out. But Shannon and Mel Tucker should be getting a fruit basket from Franklin giving that contract. That's exactly right. I mean, this is also potentially a change in how colleges do business because I think there's going to be a market correction on these contracts because these buyouts are stupid. Which one does them have worked, Andy? I tried to go down this road on the Kirby Smart. Did Kirby Smart get a 10-year, fully guaranteed $100 million contract before he won anything? Yeah, because he'd already been in the national title game. Okay. Yeah. All right. So maybe that's the exception. I guess Kirby Smart's a hell

Starting point is 00:08:01 of an exception. Yeah. But even then, that's still getting there, it's still getting to a point that Georgia was dying to get to. For the most part, it doesn't work. And these things end up as albatrosses. You're seeing it with Mike Norvell right now. You're seeing it with Luke Fickle right now. We'll see about Brian Kelly and Lincoln Riley. I mean, they are okay right now, but the season could go sour and all of a sudden. Are those the big ones? Those are the big ones right now. Mel Tucker, they ended up getting him for cause. They probably were headed down the road of having to figure out what to do about that one. So, but I feel like Mel Tucker, was Kirby Smart, the godfather of them? Was he the first one that

Starting point is 00:08:37 got it? No. Nick Saban was the first. Nick Sabin's the first. Oh, that one's okay. no i mean but like i'm trying to think of just the ones that got them on a well we're really okay so we're at all really sorry this is all a lot of this is from two thousand twenty one which is franklin got this in the same cycle yeah essentially so after the two thousand twenty one season you have well jimbo got it so jimbo is probably the first one jimbo at texas an m the extension at texasanm after lSU fired coach ors ron which is by the way the same cycle so this is the cycle where ls u opens we're Florida opens, where USC opens, and the Franklin, or excuse me, the Riley move from Oklahoma

Starting point is 00:09:19 to USC, and the Kelly move from Notre Dame to LSU, created these, created Jimbo Fisher's contract that got bought up for $77 million, created James Franklin's contract, that it really is the genesis of all these incredibly stupid long-term deals that everybody's now locked into. And when you look at, some of them are speculative and some of them are reactionary. I don't know if we're going to see very many proactive. Yeah. Like moving forward, if you're a B tier program, like, you know, all the coaches that you just, or all the programs that you just mentioned might like having James Franklin now.

Starting point is 00:09:59 Yes. Like, they would still probably be very eager or want to jump at the ability or the notion of doing that. I don't know if they're going to be jumping one leg forward at guaranteed contract. because that's what USC did, right? USC was like, you know what? We have a bunch of things to like about our program. You know, we have one at a high level before. We are desperate to do so.

Starting point is 00:10:21 We are going to go get the sexiest guy that we can get and pay him boatloads of money guaranteed in order to do that. And it's like, is that the best way to go get a coach if you're a beat to your program? Here's a good example, Texas A&M. Texas A&M pays that massive buyout. They're about to do something stupid again. They're about to hire Mark Stoops. like that's who their AD was going to hire and the board goes nuts says we're not hiring

Starting point is 00:10:45 Mark Stoops because if we hire Mark Stoops based on what he makes now at Kentucky and they're doing this financial game again we will have to guarantee him what we guarantee Jimbo Fisher so we're not doing that and they go and hire Mike Elko who was cheaper and younger and better yeah well that's the other thing too the people who are commanding those contracts aren't necessarily the ones that are most worthy of them right so I mean part of it too is like well you'd be happy to pay $10 million a year over the course of a decade of fully guaranteed money if you knew that person was elite and you know that's and when you're paying James Franklin that much money what you are expecting are oh eight which is part we're in this

Starting point is 00:11:25 pickle to begin with yeah um but I was always confused with the Penn State one to bring it back to Penn State Andy because they gave him that contract at a time in which he had been at Penn State long enough where you knew what he was right like at least with Jimbo Fisher no you still there was a chance because Urban Meyer had just left Ohio State and remember Michigan wasn't Michigan yet no I know I know but I know but turned it around yet like we still felt like there was a chance coming into this year I feel like there's always a chance but like the amount of money that he was given was what you would give to somebody who was won a national title and that just wasn't what happened and at least Jimbo Fisher when he got his extension

Starting point is 00:12:03 his boneheaded as that was he had a ring you know it was a different system and a different time in a different conference. I understand that, but he had won at the highest possible level. Lincoln Riley at least had a bunch of Heisman trophy winners and was winning his conference every single year. Brian Kelly won everywhere he went. Like, you can kind of go around the bend. I think that you could make the case that outside of Mel Tucker, James Franklin, had accomplished the least amount in terms of anybody who has been given this deal. So, you know, and that's the other thing, too. We talk about, and I think you were going to write a column. I'm sure you're still going to. Yeah, I was going to because I thought they were going to ponder this

Starting point is 00:12:41 for a little bit and then do it later. Didn't think they'd do it now. In all kinds of weather, the Florida fans now really going nuts. How does Billy Napier still have a job? Why does Billy Napier still have a lot? Guys, it's coming. It's coming. There's an open date after Mississippi State. Wisconsin fans, I think you're probably asking the same questions. There's an open date after Ohio State. Let me just throw those out there. Just remember that. Next weekend's going to be a long weekend, I think. Next Sunday is going to be this times a billion. So, well, this is, this is pretty, this one feels more monumental because you can't see it coming. Like, you know, Luke Fickle being fired and, you know, Billy Napier being fired is going to be a big

Starting point is 00:13:22 story and it's going to happen at a, you know, but it's a predictable outcome. It's a predictable thing. When I'm in the grocery store trying to buy mini bagels for my daughter's lunch this week, and I get the text from Jack, hey, we're going live now. It's like, oh, and I knew, I didn't even have to look to see what it was. I knew what it was. Yeah. But man, going to bed last night or two nights ago, I should say, thinking about what we would be talking about right now would have been foreign. It's interesting, though, because we got into this on the show. And I said this last week we had Matt Jones on the show. And I think you were with me on this. I think a lot of the audience was a little bit taken aback. But when Matt Jones from Kentucky Sports Radio, who's the most

Starting point is 00:14:02 Kentucky guy. He's the most connected guy in Kentucky. When he comes on and he says that Kentucky is prepared to pay Mark Stoops's buyout within the terms of the buyout, which is $37 million, all do within 30 days. So like James Franklin's buyout actually much more manageable than Mark Stoops. Like Mark Stoops, there's no duty to mitigate at all. He gets $37 million where he gets another job or not. He has to get it in 30 days. If Kentucky's willing to do that, every buyout is on the table. And I think we learn that today. Now, what does this mean for Penn State? Who do they go get?

Starting point is 00:14:37 That is a really, really good question because I think there's a couple good candidates out there. I think there's going to be a lot of people who want this job, perhaps some people who we haven't even thought of yet. The obvious name, the first name that's going to come up is Matt Ruhl. The first name, obviously, is Matt Roole. Big pepperoni roll guy. Yeah. So Matt Ruhle went to Penn State's walk-on linebacker there. There is no question that that is who they would want to replace, you know,

Starting point is 00:15:12 well, a lot of people would want. I don't know that the administration would. Now, Pat Kraft, very good friends with Matt Ruhl, they used to work together. Pat Kraft, the Penn State AD, used to be the Temple AD. Matt Ruhl was the temple coach when Pat Kraft worked there. So what do you think? let's say Matt Rule wants to. Let's go down Speculation Island right now.

Starting point is 00:15:33 Let's do it. Do you think that that is what Penn State needs to do? Is that the direction? Or do you think that going after somebody that might have come through the program or somebody who understands that that hasn't had his shot yet is the way to go? Well, Matt Rule has been good at two programs. He's good at Temple and good at Baylor. He's been good at Nebraska.

Starting point is 00:15:51 Things are going well at Nebraska right now. Things are going well. Now, Nebraska will fight to keep him. Nebraska can pay a lot of money. But there's a mama's calling situation, and I think people understand that. But I also don't think he's a slam dunk that that's absolutely who they would hire. For example, if you could get Kurt Signetti away from Indiana, don't you have to try? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:16:20 Well, this is the thing that is interesting to me, because when you look at what A&M did, because A&M is really the only other kind of parallel. based on the amount of money. And listen, what you lined out about him going and getting another job? Now, Signetti, you're going to have to pay a fortune to and guarantee a fortune to, but has he not already shown you what he can do? But that's what I'm saying. Like, do you think Penn State's going to have the appetite to go guarantee or go pay a fortune for somebody?

Starting point is 00:16:46 Or do you think they're going to try to find somebody that's got a bright future, but might be more speculative. I think they're going to get somebody who's a known proven commodity. So whether that's Matt Rule, Kurt Signetti. How about Matt Campbell? from Iowa State. This is the type of job he's been waiting for. Right. We said he's not leaving Iowa State for much, but this might be one such job. Yeah, right. So this is really, really fascinating because Penn State wants to get to the next level.

Starting point is 00:17:17 Penn State fired James Franklin because he failed to get to the next level. But the baseline expectation of what Penn State was accomplishing was already pretty good. Like winning 10 games, and losing to Ohio State by seven is the baseline here. And you want to go get somebody that you think has an opportunity to break you through in a way that James Franklin was able to. And if you go out and you get a Kurt Signetti, you might feel pretty good about that. Because he's already shown that he took Indiana to the playoff.

Starting point is 00:17:48 If he can do that with the resources that he has and the players and the recruiting footprint and even the way that you were perceived when you go into high school hallways with the Indiana logo on your chest, imagine what you could do with how much money Penn State invested in that. Mr. Big Playway says, Cignetti's not going to be able to hit the portal like he did at Indiana. The hell he won't be. He'll be able to.

Starting point is 00:18:06 Yeah, why wouldn't he be able to? You don't think Indiana players will leave for Penn State? Like, of course they would. Yeah. And the best ones, I mean, I don't know what the roster breakdown is in terms of who would even be a take at that point. I know Indiana has a lot of good players,

Starting point is 00:18:20 but a lot of those players I think are going to be in the NFL next year. Yeah, that is part of the problem. So, yeah, you're going to have to scout some new ones. Yeah, like Fernando Mendoza's not coming over. By the way, I do want to point out that this is this is one of those days. I think a lot of people have earned a medello. I really think everybody, including me, including you.

Starting point is 00:18:43 Including you. We've got a whole fridge full of them. But this is how you stay game day ready. This is how you stay ready in case your school fires as coach. This is how you stay ready in case. I don't know. You want to celebrate, like if you're James Franklin, I know you're not celebrating today,

Starting point is 00:18:57 but you are going to get $48.6 million that he was going to get anyway. Yeah, but now you don't have to work for it. That's true. I'm going to crack. I would crack a Modello for that. So grab yourself, Medello, stay game day ready all season long, even when it's a day, when you're now looking for a new coach. And Ari, this is still just incredible to me that this happened.

Starting point is 00:19:24 And I think we do need to spin this forward. and I've seen questions in the chat from Florida fans, from Wisconsin fans, like, when is this going to happen at our schools? It's going to happen at your schools. I think this tells you there's no buyout that is too much. There is no amount that is too much. And I will go back and who was our commenter last night who said it? Vance. Vance. Vance. Vance Williams. Vance said it last night on the live show, he said, do you think Texas A&M regrets paying the 77 million to Jimbo? And the answer is no. The answer is no. Now, you can't screw it up after that. You have to hire the right person. A&M almost screwed it up because they almost hired Mark Stoops,

Starting point is 00:20:12 who's about to get bought out of Kentucky if they lose some more games. So that is what makes this so interesting. But Florida, the $20 million to about. buyout Billy Napier. Look, they were ready to pay the 26 last year. So they'll pay the 20 this year. Luke Fickles a lot of money, but it's not this much money. So now, if you're Wisconsin, you're like, well, hey, could be worse.

Starting point is 00:20:36 Yeah. Yeah, I think that we are going to get to a point where... Oh, hold on. Hold on. TechMattacks says, Andy, you keep dodging Florida State and Mike Norvell. Okay, good point. That's a massive buyout

Starting point is 00:20:52 bigger than this one. And they're done with him, the fan base. Oh, yeah. The fan base is done with Mike Nornbell. Would you do it? Are we just going to get violent today? Well, here's the thing. Okay, so I talked to somebody about this earlier today.

Starting point is 00:21:11 What if, hypothetically, hypothetically, the major donors at Florida State, the money people have said that they can't fund a roster with Mike Norvell as the coach, that they don't feel confident funding a roster with Mike Norvelle as the coach. I think that's true for it. That's not a Mike Norvelle insult.

Starting point is 00:21:31 That's true for everybody. Yeah, I think that's universal. Yeah. Because I think that that's what, I mean, that's basically what happened with Billy Napier. He got them back on board last year. They're not going to come back on board this year at Florida. Once you've lost those people and they're,

Starting point is 00:21:45 their willingness in their stomach. Well, you're not going to put nice tires on a, on a beater car. Like, I mean, like that's part of it. Yeah. You know, and it's, like, hard because, like, we can break into an entire Florida State discussion. I'll make this video two and a half hours long. But I've just fundamentally disagreed with the way that he's built the program. Right.

Starting point is 00:22:07 So, like, you know. This is, Dave in the chat says, Eli Drinkwitz to Penn State, bring Bo Perbula back. Oh, my God, that would be electric. Listen, it's interesting when Eli's name comes up, because I've talked a lot of Florida fans about this. because they, you know, I live down there and they constantly ask me what's going to happen next. And they obviously want Lane Kiffin. And I mentioned Eli Drinkwitz, who is kind of in a similar mold to Lane Kiffin, where he scores points. He talks shit.

Starting point is 00:22:35 He stands on business. Yeah, he stands on business. He's been good at a place that's not, that it's traditionally hard to win. And people are like, Eli Drinkwitz, I'm telling you right now, a lot of these jobs, Eli Drinkwitz would be a very attractive candidate for Penn State is one he should look at. Like, some of these, like Wisconsin, I don't think you should leave Missouri for Wisconsin right now. Penn State's different. Yeah, it's different.

Starting point is 00:23:00 Yeah, because that's really what you have to isolate, too. It's like there are two schools of thought on this. Penn State hasn't won a national championship in, what, three decades now? Right. But is Penn State in the upper echelon of actual jobs, like in job rankings? If you strip away the coach and you think only about the place, location, salary, you know, geography in terms of the, you know, proximity to talent and of course the administrative buy in i want to finish this point real quick um go ahead if india if this penn state tier tier one is it tier yes pin state's tier one all right

Starting point is 00:23:32 this is this is our friend lory this is who if you've not watched thursday show i want you when you're done here to go back and watch the segment on thursday show where we talk about the white elephant party which we brought up james franklin in penn state in that party lorry is the one who came up with this concept of what if there was a party where schools could come in in and trade their coach, or coaches can come in and trade their program, we thought Penn State and James Franklin should do that. And I concocted the scenario where James Franklin goes to North Carolina and everybody's happy. Like Penn State wins, North Carolina wins, James Franklin wins, everybody wins. So here's Lori's suggestion for Penn State, and I love this.

Starting point is 00:24:12 Fran Brown would be a nice pallet cleanser for Penn State, and he's made clear he wants to stay in the Northeast. Fran Brown would be a phenomenal campaign. candidate at Penn State. Yeah, I would like to see Fran Brown cook with... Give Fran Brown those resources and let him recruit the Northeast. Holy crap. Yeah, I mean, like, he's the one person that I would take a big hack at, you know, but again, it'd probably be pretty expensive because he's, you know, Fran Brown isn't, he's going to

Starting point is 00:24:44 be taking a lot of phone calls, I think. Oh, God. I don't think that state's going to be, but then at the same time, you know, you're speculating on a hot shot coach and you might want to do something where you have more proven I don't think Fran Brown costs as much as Matt Rule. I don't think he costs as much as Matt Campbell. Now, if there's multiple bidders, he could, he could, that's where it's going to get pricey. Yeah, like if I'm Florida, if I'm Auburn, I'm at least inquiring, I'm calling, maybe

Starting point is 00:25:11 putting him in my candidate pool. I don't know if that's who I want, but I might want to talk to him just to see how I feel about it. Yeah. And Auburn, by the way, is not open yet. Florida's not open yet. We suspect they may become open. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:24 Yeah. Yeah. So I just like the profile of what Penn State should be targeting is so fascinating to me. Craig asks for this hiring cycle. Who is the Scott Frost Luke Fickle Award winner for Can't Miss Coach who somehow misses badly? I don't think there's, I don't think there is one like that because he was, Frost was going undefeated. I mean, I like, I guess if Lane moved. Because the thought is if Lane moved, it would be a can't miss with it.

Starting point is 00:25:52 But I don't know if Lane's going to move. And I also don't see how Elaine doesn't work at another place because he worked so well at Ole Miss. Like, he would work anywhere, I think. If Lane goes to Florida and you take his last four years at Ole Miss and project them forward to the next four years, does you have a job in year five? Yes. He does? Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:26:13 Yeah. So. What? Are you sure about that? I'm positive about that. Okay. Yeah. their expectation like billy napier's done a hell of a number on florida's expectations okay now

Starting point is 00:26:23 what do you at penn state that's different james franklin has set a higher standard at penn state than billy napier has in florida yeah and it's like when you fire somebody do you refer back to old thought processes until you uh or old expectations until your new coach shows that they can match that or do they have to pick up right where the the ceiling was before yeah i don't know all you know is this at some At some point, the Penn State powers that B got together, and they said this. Pay that man his money. One more time for the people in back. Pay that man his money.

Starting point is 00:27:04 That's right. He's got his money. We'll see what happens next at Penn State. This is going to be wild. Thank you. I'm

Andy & Ari On3 - Why Penn State fired James Franklin now | Candidates for the Nittany Lions' next coach

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