Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - BONUS EP: Pete Francis (Dispatch)

Episode Date: October 27, 2023

You know what? We love you. And to prove our love, we're bringin ya a special end-of-the-week bonus episode in which Andy & Nick talk all the hot topics you love to hear: cruising the Bahamas with Bert Kreischer? Yes. Drama in the jam community? Yum. Hot banjo burns? STELLAR. And on the Interview Hour we welcome founding member of Dispatch: Pete Francis! Andy spells out his appreciation for Pete's music and Pete proves himself to be a truly rad fellow. Catch Pete Francis on the road in a town near you! Watch this episode streaming now!! Psyched to partner up with our buddies at Volume.com! Check out their roster of upcoming live events and on-demand shows to enrich that sweet life of yours. Call, leave a message, and tell us if you think one can get addicted to mushrooms: [phone]  Check out our new album!, L'Optimist on all platforms Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out our good friends that help us unwind and sleep easy while on the road and at home: dialedingummies.com Produced by Andy Frasco, Joe Angelhow, & Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Arno Bakker

We'll see you. We're going on a boat. We leave tomorrow for our Burt Kreischer fully loaded cruise with all the comedians and it's going to be fucking awesome. Yeah, it's going to be so much better than the music festival.

It's more fun. I mean, we love comedy. Well, they'll probably have more fun at a music festival and we'll have more fun at a comedy festival. It's going to be awesome. No one's going to ask me to sit in. That's why people cheat. Sex when you cheat is better.

Something new, something different. No, it'll be fun. Do you think the drug intake is going to be better or worse than Jam Cruise? What do you mean by better? Is it better more or less? Is there going to be a ton of Like, is it going to be like, is there going to be a ton of coke? Is there going to be

acid? Like what type of, is it just going to be drinking? I think so. I think it's just going to be old people drinking. Right. Yeah. I don't think it's going to be like the young crowd, you know, tripping dick on MVMA, but I could be. I don't know. I have no clue what I'm walking into here. I really don't either. And I tried to get some details

from other people. Like who? The government? Just like people who've been on... Because it's not a Cloud9 event. It's not a Jam Cruise. It's Six Man. It's a different company. Yeah. So they don't even know what to expect. But I mean, the way that Burt has been

hyping it up on every late night television show, he's like, it's my first day drinking in three months. It is? He hasn't been drinking. He's waiting for this day to go fucking bananas. We will be going drink for drink

with Bert Kreiser. Maybe one day out and come back. We're coming for you. You're going to be a lightweight after three months. This liver is pickled and I am ready to fuck shit up for you. I'll be a lightweight after three months, but this liver is pickled. And I am ready to fuck shit up for you. I'll have a couple vodka sodas. I'm ready.

And I'll be his little puppet. Whatever you want me to do, I'll slam beers. I will beer bong. I will beer bong. I will beer bong. I will beer bong. I will beer bong. I'll be your little beer bong. I will beerbong. I will beerbong. I'm your little, I'll be your little, your little.

Say beerbong. Beerbong. Beerbong. I will beerbong all the beerbongs. We know you'll be the famous guy's puppet, Andy. Yes. We know. Come on, I will be your sidekick.

Let him marionette you and stick his hand up your ass and make your hand talk like Jim Henson you. Is that a sex term? Yeah. We need Jim Henson someone. But how do you, how do you fit a whole hand in an asshole? I wouldn't know. God, that sounds so painful.

Yeah. I don't like any butt stuff. I get weirded out when people put a finger in my ass. Yeah. I'm just agreeing with you on this. I can't agree more. Does a girl ever put a finger in your ass? No, we're not into that. We're Catholic.

We keep it in the front. I like that. I mean, we're not Catholic But when you're raised Catholic Your line is the only thing that goes so far With all the guilt and shame they put into you About sex We got Pete Francis

From formerly of Dispatch on the show Remember Dispatch? He was the original member And we have seen their brothers That's their big hit song. I didn't realize they're like the biggest independent band. Like they sold out Boston, you know, the TD Garden and like

Madison Square Garden. You're going to love this interview. He gets really vulnerable about dispatch. I mean, he hasn't been in the band, but he was the original member. He's solo now, right? Yes, he's solo now. He's put out a new record. Hey, Chris, play some Pete Francis. They were so popular.

When I was in college, all the bros liked them. Yeah, they were sick. It was like what they listened to to sound artsy. So you're going to love this interview. Shout out to Doubt and Gummies. Shout out to Volume.com. Go to Volume.com. Check out all the live streams while we are away on an island.

The Bahamas, baby. They have good food in the Bahamas? I don't know. I don't think they eat food there baby. They have good food in the Bahamas? I don't know. I don't think they eat food there. Isn't Rihanna from the Bahamas? I think she's from Barbados. Barbados. Yeah.

God, Rihanna's so hot. But it does start with the same two letters. Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, it's easy to get those confused. But I think she's... Do you think the comedians will accept us for being funny? Or do they think they're just going to like, oh, these guys are musicians. Well, there's two things to this. And I've actually noticed this with some comedians will accept us for being funny? Or do they think they're just going to like, oh, these guys are musicians.

Well, there's two things to this. And I've actually noticed this with some comedians I know. They always find me funnier once they realize I'm a musician and I'm not trying to be what they are. It's like, there's no competition. So it's like, you know what I mean? You're bringing your sax though, right? Yeah.

Let's just fucking shred, dude. Yeah, I'm going to shred. I love that we're the first set. We're the sailor way set. We're going to fucking crush this set. I'm going to play sax during someone's comedy. I'm gonna shred I love that we're the first set We're the sail away set We're gonna fucking crush this I'm gonna play Saxter In someone's comedy I'm going for

I'm going Cause none of these people Have seen my set So I'm going I'm doing all the tricks Not even Bert really I don't think he's seen it Bert has not seen our show

He's probably He might shit his pants He might shit his pants Cause I'm going for I'm doing all the theatrical shit This first set Sorry Goose New sheriff in town

From Hart's Heart Yeah Goose We're gonna do Bitbonga We're gonna be Bitbonga with Sorry, Goose. New sheriff in town. Yeah, Goose. We're going to be bit-bonging. Watch out, Goose. Frasco's coming for the belt. Play your little indie rock over here. We're going to have a party. Indie groove.

Enjoy Pete Francis. Oh, did you see this Billy Strings thing where he's mad at everybody? Oh my god, I love it. Is it real? It is. He was pissed. 100% real? 100% real. I could tell by his tone. I love it Is it real? It is He was pissed 100% real 100% real I could tell by his tone I don't know him But you know I love how he publicly

Wanted to fight His tour manager Or something Stage manager And the guitar tech He fired two people It seems like the stage manager Is the biggest douche bag

In the situation He just bailed on the situation He broke his guitar And ran away That's That's kind of soft That's soft as hell If he just would have stayed

He'd probably be fine He'd probably take out your paycheck Or whatever, make you feel bad for a while He's probably insured, I'm sure I thought it was funny that he was melting down online I love that shit I love when people melt down Imagine how pissed you have to be to make a video and post it

You're like, hey, fuck I'm mad 20 hours a day but I'm never that mad You know he was pissed when he was Trying to bring out the bluegrass mafia To find this guy And did you see his tour manager Guitar tech bailed too And he responded to him with a video

What'd he do Basically called Billy Strings a bitch No way Can we pull this up He was mad at both of them We don't have Can we pull this up How do we pull this up He was mad at both of them It's kind of hard to find the videos We don't have time to pull this up

Yeah but But the thing is We don't have time to pull this up But it's not that deep It's just like basically Billy's mad Both of them One of them's like

Yo Billy's a bitch And the other guy just ran away It's kind of weird You know Like Would you hire Is he expected to get another job in the industry? If someone broke my party machine and just bailed...

If someone broke your party machine, it'd probably be you, though. That's the difference. I wouldn't be pissed, but I'm like... I wouldn't have the bluegrass... I wouldn't have the goons. The bluegrass goons go find this guy. Bluegrass goons. Super scary, guys. I don't know.

Some of them are kind of redneck-y. They probably have guns, like no teeth. Yeah, that's true. They are white trash. Those type of blue... I didn't say that. You said no teeth. I did not say that.

You said no teeth, bro. I didn't say that. Most of bluegrass fans are rich now. I don't think that type of bluegrass fans come to Billy Strings anymore because they probably can't afford it. No, they're rich people. Like, a lot of people are being poor. It's like LA Bluegrass fans.

Is that a thing? They have Bluegrass there? I feel like it's illegal. No, they don't have Bluegrass in LA. They have a couple banjo guys, I bet. You know what I mean? They're in like Mumford & Sons. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Exactly. Anyway, wow. Stupid ass banjos. What? You hate the banjo. It's so annoying. Why do you hate the banjo? I don't hate it.

It's just like 95% of the people I've played it... Okay, let's put it this way. The banjo in the wrong... It's like a gun. In the wrong hands, it's going to be very, very, very annoying. And most of the people that play banjo aren't very good at it.

Right. There's a very low the people that play banjo aren't very good at it. Right. There's a very low floor to like fake banjo. Mm-hmm. It's just a very tinny. Right. I like the mandolin though. That's a good one.

I like the mandolin too. The mandolin has like a soaring reverb to it. It's so hard. I mean like I see people play the mandolin and like how do I get your fingers to like

fucking in such a small neck? It's like... How do you say his name? Thyle or Thiel? Yeah. That guy's a neck. It's like, how do you say his name? Thiel or Thiel. Yeah. Yeah. Like as a monster. It's like the violin basically.

I like him. Sometimes I think like he's the type of dude maybe like looks at the mirror while he beats off or something. Yeah, probably. Uh, that's one thing I like about playing a horn. There's no sax face.

That's why I like that about saxophone. I can't make a dumb, like weird face when I'm soloing like guitar face. That's good, because I'd be making some weird faces. Anyway, before we get canceled on this episode. For what? We just... We blasted...

Whatever. It's fine. We got tour dates before I go. Hey, guys. Right when we get off this Chrysler cruise, we are on tour with Doom Flamingo. Oh, yeah. Our first show is November 2nd at Brooklyn Bowl, Nashville. Beautiful.

I'm excited. Grab your tickets. I mean, we still are a long way to go. Nashville's tough. No one likes going to stuff there. They're all artists trying to... I know. Is Maggie Rose going to come to them?

Maybe. Margaret? She's all famous. She got a big-ass record deal. The homie Margaret? Yeah. Shout out to Maggie Rose. We're happy for? Maybe. Margaret? She's all famous. She got a big-ass record deal. The homie Margaret? Yeah, shout out to Maggie Rose. We're happy for you, bud.

You're killing it. She did get some kind of deal, didn't she? Yeah, she got a big-ass record deal. Oh, it's big? Yeah, it's big. I don't know that world. I think with Big Loud, who's like fucking huge. Yeah, I don't know that world. Friday, Asheville, North Carolina.

Asheville, do I have to tell you this again? We need you. I don't need this day of bullshit. Buying tickets day of. We're not canceling. I don't care how much my liver is fucked after the bird crash cruise. We will be in Asheville.

Buy your tickets right now. I'm so glad I'm not on those next four days of road with you. I know. Remember, I was going to go to Europe. But then we're going straight to Europe. Yeah, I know. I was going to go. I know.

Yeah, Ernie decided he wanted to go. And I turned down two gigs because of that. You should take that out of Ernie's check. I will. I, I know. I was going to go. I know. Yeah, Ernie decided he wanted to go. And I turned down two gigs because of that. I should take that out of Ernie's check. I will. I'm just kidding. The Gerlach tax. I missed out on a lot of money, Ernie. I'm just kidding. I'm not kidding, but I'm not mad about it. Don't be mad.

It's part of the industry. Yeah, he lost a lot of money. I'm not worried about it, dude. I'm just making a joke. November 4th, Atlanta, Georgia. Variety Playhouse. I'm veryth Atlanta, Georgia Variety Playhouse I'm very excited to play The Variety Playhouse It's where Papa Dozio plays When they play there

Variety Playhouse? Yeah Sick That show's almost sold out So grab your tickets Really? $4,000 cap No way

I don't know what it is $1,000? Yeah It's a lot though Yeah And then November 5th Raleigh, North Carolina At the Lincoln Theater

Lincoln That show always does really well So grab your tickets. Alright, guys. Enjoy Pete Francis. I hope you enjoyed our Halloween special with Michael and Luke. That was a good one. I thought that was fun.

I love Michael. He's my dad. I can't wait to get closer with him. He's a cool dude. Alright, guys. Enjoy Pete Francis. We'll see you Tuesday. Who's on the show next Tuesday? Oh, Brent Cobb. I fucking love Brent Cobb.

The salad guy. He's on tour with Chris Stapleton. He's on tour with Chris Stapleton. He's been on tour with Luke Combs. I always play that song Digging Holes I don't know it It's great

One of those 80s songs Where it's just like a guy like He like writes all the songs Bury me in my grave I don't know You love stuff like that I love shit like that That's cool

Some of it Alright enjoy Pete Francis Hey Chris Play some Pete Francis And let's get this party started Bury me in my grave. Up against these walls you'll see. The fires beneath the trees. I can't always hold it on.

I don't always hold it on. I don't always know my song. When you're running, you're running free. When you take it, you'll take it to me. Scared without your love what's up dude how you doing andy hey man you in connecticut i'm in connecticut yeah cool fuck yeah all right cool it's uh feeling good all right let's do this all right what the fuck is up pete how you you doing, buddy? Dude, Andy, where's the UN, baby? The UN, yeah, we don't see each other when we get off tour.

You know, we say, fuck that. That's right. I got enough of you. Yo, bud, how's it been? How's the solo record going? How's it going? It's cool, man. You know, it was a real, just amazing experience making this record. I recorded most of it myself in my studio here at my house, which is called Dragon Crest. sort of dove into Logic. I was kind of inspired by these pretty hip drum loops. Most of my stuff with Dispatch and Solo stuff had been with a live drummer.

But with a lot of loops, it's just so inspiring in the Splice world. And then these songs started to emerge. Right. What did you learn about yourself through learning logic and being your own producer and having someone not you know help you with the process i thought it was it was hard as shit man like pulling my hair out like why can't i fucking hear the bass drum um but you know man there's a beauty to recording and these, you know, you probably

feel the same way you're in the studio and you're, it's like, you're in a spaceship, you know, you're in the Millennium Falcon and everybody's just going into outer space. You know, it's just so, so beautiful. And I love the, the art of recording the mic. Where does it go on the acoustic guitar? I had fun doubling my vocal. It was super hard, but at the same time, there was a little catharsis, I think, going on with it too. Yeah, exactly. You don't have any other outside opinions. It's you and your brain.

The songs are okay. I'm like, is this cool? And then I was really lucky. You know, I had, I had kind of taken them as far as I could. And then I linked up with a great producer named Scott Jacoby, who's won a Grammy with Vampire Weekend. He's done stuff with Coldplay. Corey Henry's just a sort of masterful, you know, engineer, producer, and just a gem of a guy. And he felt the tracks,

you know, and then he came to my studio and he just took them way farther than I could have ever taken them on my own. We did additional tracking here and then at his studio, uh, Usonia in the city. Uh, and so, yeah, man,

he, he brought them, um, in my opinion to this, uh, magical place. Is it scary to release records solo then versus when you're with a fucking big machine like dispatch yeah you know it's it's scary but you know those those records with dispatch were

battles too you know we were battling with each other in in tough ways and in great ways, you know, when you're locking down a take or some vocals or some, you know, the story with The General is like that song was really scrapped together in a studio where the engineer was pretty hungover. were operating the tape machine and Chad played his acoustic guitar with a mic through an electric guitar amp. So all of the sounds were fucked up, but that's still the biggest dispatch song, you know? And so I think there's something to be said about the magic of the band or what comes together maybe before the slickness of the recording right and that's like the same reason why you started recording your tracks at home with your solo project right because it's it's about the magic of the track right it's not about how fucking clean the studio is or how clean the fucking neve console is right it's about the magic of the day it's the magic of the day it's the magic of the take it's my wife or kids coming into the studio saying yeah i like that um really yeah i love i really love that kind of communal thing and i feel

like um with dispatch and what's going on now, that, you know, I'm sure you must feel it with your band, that team aspect where everybody's like, you feel psyched together, I think it's important for me to feel the magic. But then when it's reinforced either by Scott Jacoby or my wife, who I'm involved intimately with the artwork. She did the album cover. She painted the cover and also sings on the record.

So that magic of coming together and sharing those kind of euphoric, blissful moments is where it's at for me. Is it weird going from Madison Square Garden with Dispatch to you know like City Winery or do you like doing it it's totally weird I bet dude

it's about as weird as it gets but I guess I'm kind of a scrapper you know man i we started when dispatch started we played in like old churches and we're in virgins vermont with like an open mic you know and there was a band that opened up for us called myopic dog so you got wild stuff like that. And then you go into MSG or the TD Garden. I love playing music. I still love it. You know, in the sense I can play for 20 people or 20,000 people. Right. I think what keeps me in the game is the process is the learning. I just feel like I'm, I'm a better guitarist than I was when I was 20.

Right. Now I've learned about recording and now I'm working with some songwriters to being like, yo, how can we get the best song like what key should it be in this dude i'm working with right now grant michaels he's a cool dude he was saying the key of c has the most hits of any key and i was like that's fucking cool you know like yeah all right let's write this in the key of c i want to hit yeah exactly what um what's the what is the philosophy of a good song to you pete well i mean the word that we always hear is hook right so what is it about, what are, what are the things that, that grab us, you know, is it, is it the, um, is it a guitar hook? You know,

usually there's something in the vocals that just gets you. Right. And I still think maybe some of the most power from dispatchpatch were those vocal harmonies. And when we met, that was the Velcro, I think, between the voices. And, you know, I think that there's some, you know, sonic alchemy that goes on. Sonic alchemy that goes on. And when it hits,

you just know, it's like a vibration that it not only hits for those singing, but that vibration hits the audience. And it's just like a triumphant moment. You heard a song

where you thought, oh, this song's shit, and then you play it live, and it responds so much better than what your brain thought the song was going to be. I think, yes, with the Dispatch thing, when we recorded Bang Bang, we kind of sucked as musicians. And you look at a song like Mission or Bats in the Belfry,

as the years went on, the song got infinitely better. But you're playing it more? Playing it more live, the energy live, the band and the band dynamic between the three of us or sometimes as dispatch toward more we brought more members percussion saxophone and then that would make things more elaborate and cool so yeah i mean at the beginning while i still love those recordings in their rawness, I didn't at the time think it would have the same

ferocious quality. Timeless. Timeless that it gained. Yeah. So what do you think? The process is, do you think we should be playing these songs live for a year before we record them?

Or do you like the process of getting it out there, recording the record first, and then testing it out, and then fine-tuning the songs? What do you think is better for the discography? That's a good question, man. question man um the dude i'm working with right now he's sort of saying can you make this song be badass with you and the acoustic guitar without any other shit can it be you're just like that thing is fire i'm i'm on that and then maybe if you have that kernel This magic kernel You can turn it into whatever you want You know

You can turn it into a thing with an orchestra You can turn it into I don't know man It's like James Brown It's a man's world right There's that recording And then there's James Brown It's a Man's World, right? There's that recording. And then there's James Brown, It's a Man's World with Pavarotti.

Yeah, that shit's fucking wild, dude. And now you've seen that shit, right? Oh, my God. I'm just like... You know? Yeah, exactly. I think you can always take it higher, and why not? You know? There's nothing like playing a song.

I don't know if there's a couple of songs in your catalog where you're like, dude, we put it down, but it just keeps getting sicker. Or is it the opposite where it was too elaborate of a recording and it's just better broken down. Totally. I feel like when you're doing these naked sets, the vulnerability is there. It's got to be tough to emulate that on a record because when you feel the energy of a fucking crowd, you feel the tenseness, the crisp in the air, the quietness of this room.

We're performers at heart. Or maybe you're not. Maybe you are a recorder at heart, but I feel like you're a fucking performer. You're a fucking legendary performer, man. To get the best take, I wonder do you ever listen to your live records and say, damn, that was actually a pretty damn good take?

I think the best Dispatch record of all of them is Gut the Van. I don't know if you know that recording, but I just feel that those years, late 90s, we were on fire and there was something that was happening with the music that... The music was first, in my opinion. It was so... It was just... It was really alive um yeah but let me ask you andy

like what do you dig uh do you like being in recording in the studio or live or do you like both i like live i think uh i mean live ain't gonna make you no money. Ain't going to make you no mailbox money. And we're all just trying to be off the road as much as we can. But I don't know. I still haven't made a record I feel has the energy of my live show. And I think that's what I'm still searching for. What about you? I think live shows are some of the dopest things ever if you get it really well recorded we were super lucky for those shows in 07 at msg they were recorded by brett elias and whose sound

whose pearl jams from the house and also mixes all of their live stuff so if you have the right engineers and you're recording and you get a great performance i guess nothing's better i mean one of my favorite live records of all time is little feet waiting for the best you know i don't i don't know how you top that. If you look at some of the jazz recordings, the Van Gelder stuff, a lot of that was live and recorded. And of course, we know Kind of Blue was first or second takes. So in essence, they're grabbing something live.

And I think it's a tricky road when everything's tuned and quantized. I hear it. It's like eating candy with a wrapper on it. Yeah, it's so true, actually. And you don't know the BPM. You don't know really what the groove of the BPM is until you start playing it live. You could think that's what the BPM is

when you're first recording it, but maybe the groove needs to be slower or faster. Yeah, dude. Or the groove needs to go faster and slower. That's the idea of you're a live musician. People don't realize that but when a take is breathing doesn't mean it's just one straight line it's breathing it's alive right um you know like if you listen to the isolated tracks on fly like an eagle eagle the drummer it's he's kind of moving around yeah yeah but how sick are those drums

they're sick and like is that do you take that philosophy when you're uh recording solo like do you play on a click or is it like you just want free form i you know it's a variation. Sometimes the tune, the drummer would just be like, dude, it's going to be easier. You know, I work with a great drummer named Kenny Shaw, who even if he's locked into a click, it feels so natural. But with Dispatch, you know, it was some click and some not click. Right. The song Two Coins, i kind of sucked playing to just a click and these days as you know it's easier to play to a drum loop or a drum groove but um yeah man you're not you're not really getting many people in the audience saying, hey, I noticed you were off. The BPM was changing.

Yeah, exactly. No one's fucking looking. Why do we... See, this is the thing. Why do we overthink it? Why are we so... We're nerds, man. We're total music nerds. Right. You can't talk to a chick about BPM. He's like, oh, I'm going to come. But anyway, that BPM was 134.

That's not what it was last night. Sorry. I'm usually better on the click. God damn it, Pete. Just let me come. No, you know, it's so's so funny how you were talking about when it was about the music first with Dispatch. What happened?

What turned around? Did you guys get into drugs? Or did you get into just finding love? No, I don't think... Well, I think things went in different directions. I think there's... directions. I think there's sort of an element sometimes of politics or social, what is it called? Social, I don't know. What's the best word? It wasn't drugs, but it became about some outside forces that led us away from the three of us, in my opinion. Right.

about the music, we were in our van, wimpy, we were fighting the good fight. That that's where I thought we were the best. A lot of years playing frat houses, a lot of those gigs. A lot of that, that was some of my favorite time. I do think, and I guess we can speak to this a little bit when managers and agents and all these people get involved um and then maybe the three of us you know maybe of the three of us i was going out on the rock star limb a little bit you know and and living that up and little bit you know and and living that up and yeah i don't know if that was always as cool with with those dudes um like what like you're just like hooking up getting pussy and shit yeah yeah doing it yeah doing the ladies thing and smoking weed you know playing that and and going

and i i don't know those the other two dudes you know other two dudes, Brad had a sort of a religious component to his thing with the God and the Jesus thing. And Chad got into the politics and gun violence and and saving Zimbabwe. And I have nothing, I'm not trying to knock any of that, but I am saying that I didn't really feel, I felt that we lost the center, that we lost that the music is king. The music is always king. And, you know, when I left the band, yeah, there's definitely, I have dealt with depression, bipolar disorder, and honestly, the highs of not being able to fall asleep after gigs night after night.

And, you know, wanting to get stoned and run around and chase girls and and all that sort of thing yes suppression no um but yeah man so then at the end i felt like chad uh he kind of wanted to be the captain of the ship and he he wanted to sort of change the dynamic and at the time it was sort of shitty timing because my health was heading south um what mentally or just yeah mentally mentally as i mentioned i've dealt you know with these things ocCD and some of this shit, pretty hardcore. And around 2016, it just, I sort of, my mind and my soul were not aligned with each other. Did you try to hurt yourself or was it, did you ever? No, you know, I mean, I didn't hurt myself but i i was hospitalized um you know i did um uh ect electroconvulsive therapy i did tms which is mag i mean it pretty serious yeah pretty serious shit about as serious as it gets.

When did you first start feeling, were you like, did you feel, when was the first time you really understood what depression was? Were you a kid or was this later in your life? Like first panic attack or first, like when was that? Yeah, yeah. Well, just to give you a little history, like my mom was a social worker and she got her master's. She went to Sarah Lawrence and then got her master's at Columbia Social Work.

Holy shit. Your mom's smart as fuck. Yeah, she's Swedish. She's a badass. She plays guitar. But this whole thing, like Jung and Freud and psychoanalysis and psychotherapy, that was a big part of my life. But tied with that was my artistic spirit, knowing when I was 19, I wanted to be an artist. I was a poet, a songwriter. I put the band together. I saw Brad and Chad. Brad did not want to play with Chad at all. And I took eight months to convince him that we could be a band. Right. What did you see in those two guys that you wanted to be a band with them when you're a kid when i was 19 and chad was 18 i thought chad he told me a couple songs he'd

written when he was 14 and he wrote flying horses when he was 14 he wrote he wrote Alias when he was in Zimbabwe and he was 17 or 18. So I saw a guy with massive talent, songwriting talent. On the side with Brad, he was incredible with harmony singing and there there are very few people who can do it and do it uh as well as he can right and when the three of us sang you know i was younger then my voice was higher and and we we we locked in. So go back to, you're talking about Freud, you're talking about your parents maybe putting pressure on you.

When was the first time you found depression? Was it earlier in your life? Yeah, earlier. They weren't, just to be clear, they weren't putting pressure on me, but I was discovering this about myself needing to be on meds early on. And then, frankly, hitting the weed with some of these drugs I was on probably wasn't the best idea.

Oh, yeah. Probably triggered it. Yeah, it triggered it. I think it triggered the mania. Triggered it. Yeah, it triggered it. I think it triggered the mania. So, yeah, man, there's obviously sides of me where they, well, what's up with Pete?

Is it sort of a volatile in that way or maybe unstable? But that was much later, Andy. So I guess I'm trying to, I think you're getting this, convey that when we were younger, I wasn't dealing with some of these mental health issues. Maybe all of us were more connected. strong. I do feel like things sort of splintered out to the point of, they might say with my illness, I couldn't be contributing. And I think that that's true. But I would also say the direction that Chad wanted to go was not where I wanted to go. Right. Oh, keep going. Right. And that's... Oh, keep going. Sorry. I interrupted you. Oh, no. I'm sorry. So, yeah. And I hear

that. Brains change. Feelings change. So, when you took the hiatus in 2017, did you go to a clinic? Did you go to... What happened for those two years until you permanently said, I'm done with this shit? I had to do a lot of working on myself, aside from being in the hospital for, you know, a couple months.

I had to, yeah, like you're saying, I dealt with a couple serious panic attacks. yeah and like you're saying i dealt with a couple serious panic attacks um group therapy with a bunch of adults was really eye-opening because you're talking with people who are some my age older and sort of you're hearing what they're going through and if we're just out with friends or doing something, you don't always have that perspective, right? I mean, you're talking to people who are going through. So the beauty of this record, I think, is that I learned about self-compassion, is that I learned about self-forgiveness. And I think that I really grew as a person. So the tough part about talking about mental illness is some people will be like, whoa,

mental hospital, whoa, serious depression. And it is tough, to be honest, to talk about that. tough to be honest to talk about that and but i'm okay with talking about it now because i know that there was a transformation in me that that has made me a better husband father friend um and as hard as it was for me to pull myself out of dispatch, I think it was necessary and the right thing to do. Yeah, totally. And you talk about, you know, instead of calling it mental illness, I think it should be called, like you say, mental forgiveness. I think mental forgiveness, man, is a better way to go. man is a better way to go because I mean, let's be real. Even if it's not serious mental illness, man, all of us have difficult thoughts. You know, we, we lose a great friend. We, you know, all of the disappointments. So there's this mental complexity and in our world today with the barrage of social media and information and and you and i who are creators with music what what does it all mean you know is it a drop in

the ocean or or is it is it about our own healing or our own i don't know so that so I don't know. So those are some of my thoughts these days. Yeah, and I agree, man. I got my first pay attack five years ago. I've been doing 250 shows a year for 15 years. And I just got burnt out. And I realized I had all this pressure on my hands because I can't

just quit because I have a fucking machine I have behind me. And like, then you're realizing, oh shit, I'm not doing things for myself anymore. I'm doing things for other people. Like you were saying with the managers, the agents, all this shit going on. So it must've felt free to leave something that, you know, it must have been heartbreaking to leave this thing. But also, we always think about everyone else before we think about ourselves. That's why I love you saying mental forgiveness. Because basically, we're forgiving ourselves. You know, we can fucking fight everyone else, but we suppress shit all the time.

We need to start thinking about ourselves again, Pete. Let's fucking go, baby. Yeah, man. The ego is a powerful thing it's like i got this i i you know i need this i got this and then i had to be like whoa um mental forgiveness here you know i i can't do it but i'm really glad that you said that part about um being free because i did man you know i want those memories of love about the three of us what we did to really be at the forefront of my mind and that and that it was difficult It's certainly things got difficult between all of us in all aspects, the business of the band, you know, how the band will go on. And the fact that I can be talking with you today about this and you being a performer and you dealing with mental health thing, I just think it's better if we can talk with each other in sort of a real way. Right.

Without judgment and without like, oh, dude, Andy, panic attack, bro. That's some seriously rough shit, you know? Yeah. Have you ever had a panic attack before a show? And just like, you don't want to be on fucking stage. How did you get your ass on stage? Yeah. Has that ever, like, right before, probably like 2016, 2015, when the panic attacks were really happening.

Like, how are those shows for you? That must've been fucking hard, bro. If you're going through this, it was hard, you know, the,

yeah, the depression. I had some major depression dealing with, uh, then getting on stage at Bonnaroo, um, or a lot of big venues. Thankfully the garden and that, you know, we played The Garden 07.

Those were some of my favorite shows. And I feel like I was sort of at the top of my game. But other stuff, other stuff came in. And yeah, I mean, I was on the train heading into the city and I had a major panic attack. I had, I was, I was gonna just fucking check into a hotel, but I went straight to my psychiatrist and like calm down. Were you living in the city back then? Or were you always in?

Yeah, I had a dope ass apartment at one university place, University in Waverly. I just felt like a king there, man. I love Washington Square Park. I had some great musician friends, and we just tore it up for years. New York is... up for years you know um new york is it's just you know i still every time i go into grand central

i'm like this is amazing i know i love that city that whole thing i'm like i feel that i can take a train from here to manhattan an hour long it's heaven what did the psychiatrist say to get you out of the rut in your head to get you on that stage i said i said to him you're i said you you're gonna have to call the ambulance and he said and and i had to drink a lot of water. And he said, we're just going to, he said, let's just talk. And thank God a friend came and got me at the office. But I never been more scared of my life.

What were you scared of? I've never been more scared in my life. What were you scared of? The panic attack itself was just like... I don't know. Fuck, man. I'll ask you what you were scared of. What are you scared of?

You're just fucking... Yeah. You're scared to go on. Yeah. Is it failure? Fucking up. I never really thought about failure. I got...

In my mind, there was suicidal ideation and I didn't make any attempts. But that was there. Suicidal ideation isn't tea party talk, man. We're getting into serious shit. But at the same time, I think it's okay to talk about. I think it's okay because we get up each morning, we talk about how we're going to be alive, thoughts of dying, killing oneself. It was a very difficult thing to go through and talk about it, but I'm so glad that I did. I'm so glad that I can say, I can have a thought about suicide, but then I can have a thought about a pink bunny rabbit.

And those thoughts can change. And then if that happens, I also say, say, Pete, feet on the ground, cold glass of water, breathe, you know, and I can come back now. I had to go to the hospital to work it out, to learn about it, but I really fought. I fought for myself. You know, electroconvulsive therapy is no joke right um you're getting you're basically taking anesthesia and then they knock you out and causing a seizure in your brain which releases a lot of dopamine and those kind of chemicals right and one description is like you know when you're like fuck my computer doesn't work i I'm going to restart it. That's what ECT is. And that's the thing, which is kind of fucked up.

We go to the doctor when we're feeling sick, when we break an arm. Why is there a stigma of taking care of our brain? Like, why is there such a bad stigma about our brain when we go to doctors for everything else? Well, think about it. You go to your dude, yo, what's up, man? What's up? I'm good. I'm good. We're good. I'm good. We're good.

Always, right? I'm fucking depressed. I'm dealing with some shit. Maybe as people... I know, of course, I say I'm good. I do that all the time, too. I do, too.

But do we talk sensitively with others around us about how hard life can be? Yeah. Can we discuss that within the you know i think america too our culture is like hyped the best the most money the most records sold you know and how are we ever going to keep up with that like we get what about process what about process? What about growth? You know? Are we going to get into that, you know? Yeah, and like, you were the biggest fucking indie band in the world, bro. Like, what else do you need?

You know? What else do you need? That's society, though. That's us keeping up. It's that fucking keeping up with the Joneses mentality that drives us all crazy, dude. Makes us work every day. It's like the idea of the American dream is to overwork yourself until you don't even know why you're even doing it in the first place. I think about it all the time.

Why am I doing it? Sometimes I think about it. I'm in a car again. I'm in a van driving 15 hours. I'm like, I forgot why I was doing it because we have to do it every day. It's fucked up, man. Why do we put so much pressure on it? Why does Americans put so much pressure

on themselves to not have each other's back and just try to be better than everyone else? It's so fucked up. It is fucked up. It's fucked up because there's always this projection, expectation. I don't have this. I don't have that. If I did that, I'd have that. But my medicine to that, which I'm practicing now, is being grateful. Andy, man. He's doing his thing like we're hanging. That's my banjo. I can't

fucking play that banjo. Someday I might. I suck at the banjo. But like look at my guitar, man, or look at the shadows. Look at the sun. When all these mystics and philosophers, that's

what they're talking about. When these guys, you know, Eckhart Tolle or Thich Nhat Hanh or fucking Deepak, all those cats, they're talking about the moment, you know? Present. The present. And sometimes, I don't know how you feel, I've thought it's pretty abstract, the present. Okay, well, the present, what do I have to do? But then I started saying, I'm actually

grateful for this shit. I'm grateful that I was in that band. I'm grateful that I'm healthy now. I'm grateful that I can talk about mental forgiveness. Maybe what keeps my fire is doing a collaboration,

jumping on stage with you guys. You jump on stage with us, um, doing gay. To me, it's about the hang. It's about the process. If we're always goal oriented, it's painful, dude. You're, you're never, you're never satiated. Yeah. Or you're never satisfied. You're never satisfied. Yeah. If I had that aid, you know.

Yeah. So in retrospect, why do you think it was hard to be present? Well, you just answered that, actually. Because we weren't present in the past. We were always just looking at the next gig, next gig, next thing, garden, new record,

blah, blah, blah. Probably burnt you the fuck out, bro. I think it burned me out, and those really high highs were hard to come down from. It's hard to come down from 110,000 people in Boston.

Three nights at the TD Garden. Like all of that shit was bonkers. Straight up bonkers. And I think I had lost sense of myself. Who's Pete? Who was I?

Who am I? And I had to go digging for that. Is it exciting to start over? Because while you're searching for yourself You're finding Pete You found Pete now

He's back I'm doing it man I think it's way exciting It's humbling It's exciting I want to get I'm like dude How am I going to do that guitar thing? How, what's a better hook for this song? But, but, but like what we're talking about, having it be about the process.

I just feel like if I'm learning, if some dude shows me a new chord on the piano, I'm going to sit down with that and maybe a new idea will come. But yeah, man, you know, I think this record is kind of a, it's a journey from head to heart, Pattern Sky, to me. You know, it's how we get talking about,

I guess it's how the opening track, you know, tell me why I can't get, I get on with it. Tell me why I'm always stuck. Right. That's what I'm saying. Beautiful.

And I really was, I was, I was so stuck. And I guess I wanted to honor that moment like can we honor the fact that we're stuck without being like and now I'm free you know like

we're in that shit so let's talk about it but as the record progresses I think that there's a there's a softening of some of this pressure and chaotic shit. Yeah. Brain. Frantic.

Coming down. And there's a cool Buddhist book that I that i have journey from the head to the heart i mean i think when we're in the heart we're more able to see other people we're able to see self-forgiveness we're able to see compassion for others and the world right now is so focused on splitting apart differences, differences, them. Like, I don't know what the fuck happened. But I think we have to get back to, yo, we're alike like this, man. So I guess that's what I was trying to accomplish with this record. And I feel like the record writing the songs is like,

kind of like therapy for yourself. Cause you tell it, you're talking, I mean, these songs are so fucking personal to yourself. Like as you write more and more of them for the record, I guarantee you're probably like opening up even more and more, you know,

you're hearing things you never thought you'd hear out of yourself, you know wow i fuck it that's how i think you know i i totally agree a friend of mine was like dude you wrote a lot of questions in your lyrics why am i so broken why do i feel such pain so yeah I think that the... I guess you hope that the record's revealing. You hope that when someone's listening that they feel, I have questions like that. Or, I don't know about you, man, but going for a drive with a record, it's always one of my favorite things to do.

Yeah, me too. I love that. Also, you're asking questions. It means that the therapy is working, bro. You were afraid to ask those questions. You know? I've been working my balls off in therapy, man. I fucking bet, dude.

But therapy's badass, dude. It's, it's like taking out the garbage in your brain. And then the week you go and you put the garbage in the garbage and you're like, bye. Um,

I'm a huge believer in it. Again, I mean, like looking from your songs, you're asking questions. You're asking yourself questions of that. You're afraid to talk about early in your life. That're asking questions. You're asking yourselves questions that you're afraid to talk about early in your life. That's

growth, right? Thank you, man. Fucking awesome. I think it is growth. Yeah. What else? Growth and what? I was going to say growth and strength. Yeah.

I feel that I'm a stronger human being through this i i also think i'm that i'm more empathetic yeah were you ever a jealous guy you know there are times when i think about certain musicians or certain like songs or their careers that i'm like that motherfucker he's just so good you know but generally i'm not i'm not too too jealous. Yeah. What about Matt? Would Matt be in the guitar player? Oh, Matt, the,

the bass dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I was playing bass for dispatch. I think he's playing bass. I used to,

I used to book his band when I was like 19. Oh no shit. He was in a band called Args Bandits. Oh cool. Um, But like I say, I ask that because it must have been a blessing in disguise to leave the band in 19.

20 was COVID, so no shows was going on. It was like pure mental awareness to take care of you. I believe in blessings like that. Everything happens for a reason in that sense. You don't want to watch some fucking Dispats be touring and shit while you're fucking

dealing with your own shit. Some of that was torture in itself, to be honest. Right. They're playing Red Rocks without me. Yeah. I don't know the dudes in the band that well um i i know one dude he was an engineer um on the record and he was cool but you know the band changed it to me

it changed more into chad's band um and brad is you know of course there but but to me it's a bit more like uh state radio um but yeah man a lot of that was fucking excruciating to be honest yeah it must have been hard man yeah and how long did it take how long it takes So you finally said Fuck it, I'm going to do my own thing Or therapy It took a few Yeah, it took years

You know, I started the band when I was 19 I was so proud of that band And You know How it finally fell apart between The three of us i don't think was handled the best and then i mean all the things the business of the band like all of that can be a drag um right did you like the business side of shit or were you always just like straight music like

i wish i was better i wish i was better at the business side to be honest i mean the music business is just like what you know trying to figure this shit out i i was good at loading the van up making sure the guitars were tuned and writing songs. Right. You know, I signed a solo record deal with Hollywood Records in 2003. I was really proud of this record. But once I started seeing some of the creatures that lurk in the music business, I...

Yeah, dude, fuck them, dude. They're so weird, dude. I can't believe it. Zombies I don't know what the fuck was going on These people were like, I'm like, what? And then lying, straight up lying You know, I'd be like, oh, I had a tour

I had a tour with Peter Gabriel For two weeks I'm set up on stage, outside Boom, cancelled What the fuck? I don't know why. I don't know. Manager, agent. And it's also

2003, 2005, 2006, that was like LimeWire, Napster. None of these motherfuckers were making money, so their brains are like, I gotta take over these motherfuckers. I gotta take more percentages. We're not making money anymore. We got to get our cut. We got to get our cut,

Johnny. We got to get the money. Where's the money, Lebowski? But it's fucked up because you were in a time where music was the highest and the

lowest. Napster, everyone... I worked at Atlantic Records in 2005 and I got fired because they... No one was making money off the Napster hit. Bro, Napster was just like we're in the wild, wild

west. We have fucking pistols on either side and we're holding up the bank like we're doing this you know this is before steve jobs and files bullshit and we were just like yo these cats are trading our music with friends and we're getting gigs and getting paid right you know never been to pomona college before napsters hitting them pretty hard we go out no radio no nothing a thousand people showed up to the halloween party so it helped your career it helped in a big way i don't think dispatch would be what it is without that. No shit.

Absolutely, man. And then we were in DC for those hearings and like I had fucking Chuck D like giving me a fist bump and saying how much he thought what dispatch was doing was so badass. So

we had, I think we had that bit of pirate renegade spirit. Right. Oh, I mean, you are the ultimate indie band, bro. I've said this again to all my

friends this. You are the ultimate fucking pirates. And how many indie bands fucking sell out TD Garden? Not a lot, bro. Let me tell you the TD Garden story. That's the year the Bruins won the Stanley.

Holy shit. And they gave us the real deal Bruins jerseys with our names on the back. We wore hockey gear and played the set like that.

It was so fucking fun. Was it when you're booking something like TD Garden, they don't know if the Celtics are going to make the playoffs or if the Celtics are going to make the playoffs or if the Bruins are going to make the playoffs.

Do they have in these clubs, like, hey, your show might get canceled because there's a playoff game? Or was it like you guys were past the winning? That'd be fucked up. I mean, Madison Square Garden, of course, is more famous than TD Garden, but TD Garden's no joke, dude.

There were 20,000 a night, three nights in a row. So it was... They were beautiful, man. They were amazing. I got a couple more questions. Pete, this is... We gotta be homies, dude. You're a fucking bad motherfucker, dude.

Let me get your number, bro. Let's do some shit. Yo, and I wanted to ask you, you're doing... How's the rock boat thing? Have you done those gigs? I've done them, yeah. The rock boat's more of like a... It's a cougar cruise. It's a vibe. But Sister Hazel, those guys are super

nice and all the bands that have put... Basically, rock boat helped me build my career. That, Jam Cruise, all those cruisers. I mean... Alright, if you ever want a band to open up for you on a cruise, let me know, man.

Bring it. Oh, fuck, Pete. Fuck yeah. So, what do you... I got two more questions, and then I'll let you go. Do you regret anything? Do you ever beat the shit out of your bandmates? Or you ever just had a bad day and took it out on them? Or was it just all internal?

Man, so much of my battles were internal. I didn't fuck with people. I think I'm a pretty gentle soul. But the struggles were on the inside. Yeah. Yeah. So with that being said, you're putting out a new record you're finally healing like you're finally like at least being honest with yourself through the healing and i can't

wait to hear the next record because then you'll have another couple years of fucking healing which is going to be fucking even better you know when it's all said and done what do you want to be remembered by i want to be remembered by founding one of the most amazing independent bands ever. Right. I also want to recognize the work that the three of us did together, not to sound like it was all me. My wife and I have an art and music collective called Dragon Crest Collective.

I didn't mention to you, during the pandemic, I taught a songwriting class at Middlebury College where the three of us met. And that was the bomb, dude. That was the shit. Because when you're working with 19 20 21 songwriters like they're not caught up in any of the forms or structures right it was just it was some songs

for like you know five or six verses or weird shit i love that that stuff. I love it. I wish that more of that were on the radio. You know, sometimes I feel like everything's so buttoned up, so sellable, you know? Yeah. And I,

and I kind of like things to be, you know, a little messier. What'd you learn about the youth and how they're approaching songwriting that you took into your new record? It's the innocence, man. It's the innocence. It's when you look at someone who's 18 and you look into their eyes and they're so kind and they really appreciate the talking about it. I guess I can transport myself. And if somebody said a kind word about a song that I had written,

that meant the world. That meant the world. I'm sure you have stories like that too. Did it bring you back to when you were 18, just fucking just being, you know, ignorance is bliss, fucking just playing and, you know. It brought me back, dude. It brought me back to when the three of us were just like,

he's fucking, they teased us at Middlebury. They called us the Indigo boys because we'd have the acoustic guitars and we were singing the harmonies, but man, there was nothing better than that. You know, it was,

that was, it was shit. So yeah, just to finish off that question that, that I'm a real artist, that I'm a real poet, that I'm very serious about what I do, that I want to work with other talent people and,

and that I'm a visionary. Yeah. Well, you got, you got my vote on that, buddy. And I would love to write some tunes with you and love to, you know, let's do it, man. Well, you got my vote on that, buddy. And I would love to write some tunes with you and love to, you know. Let's do it, man. I was checking out your tunes on Spotify, really digging, you know, and I love the group thing that you have is beautiful. Does that really, does that fuel you with juice?

Is beautiful. Does that really fuel you with juice? Yeah. I can't really write music with my band. I like to write with other songwriters a lot, but I do have a chance to give each bandmate the opportunity to write songs together. I just like writing with everyone.

That's my thing. I want to learn. I want to keep learning the craft of songwriting. I want to keep learning from everyone. Everyone has his own interpretation of what is a great song. That's why I asked you that question because everyone has that different interpretation of what is a beautiful song. And if we could just keep chipping away, chipping away to make us feel comfortable that we're growing because like you said, if we're not learning, we're dying.

So we need to keep learning about ourselves. We need to keep learning about our craft. We need to keep learning about the love of our lives, like your wife, your kids, and just keep learning. That's all. I'm just curious, what is a beautiful song to you? What are you striving for? Honesty.

Complete honesty with myself and complete honesty. You know, hooks, I mean, a hook, yes. Melody, I mean, that's what we learn. But like, inside the hook, the honesty is what makes things timeless, I think.

I don't know. What about you? Yeah? Same thing? I'm with you, man i think that that that kind of unveils your fingerprint you're the sole print of andy of pete and that's that's that's the magic right there yeah or you know it's like a yearbook likebook. Pete went a little crazy in 2017. That's that record. Pete found himself in 2022.

They'll be looking back and they'll be like, what the fuck was he writing then? That shit was weird. Let's get a good pop hit out of this guy. I think about that Walk Hard with Dewey Cox.

We need didgeridoos and fucking camels. Oh, shit. Well, Pete, thanks for being on the show, man. I know you're busy. Keep making art. Keep smiling and keep forgiving yourself because you deserve happiness too, buddy. Andy, you're the man.

I really appreciate our talk. Yeah, man. Keep it continuing, buddy. Good luck. Peace. You tuned in to the World's Health Podcast with Andy Fresco. Thank you for listening to this episode produced by Andy Fresco, Joe Angelo, and Chris Lawrence.

We need you to help us save the world and spread the word. Please subscribe, rate the show, give us those crazy stars, iTunes, Spotify, wherever you're picking this shit up. Follow us on Instagram at world saving podcast for more info and updates. Fresco's blogs and tour dates you'll find at andyfresco.com and check our socials to see what's up next. Might be a video dance party, a showcase concert, that crazy shit show, or whatever springs to Andy's wicked brain.

And after a year of keeping clean and playing safe, the band is back on tour. We thank our brand new talent booker, Mara Davis. We thank this week's guest, our co-host, and all the fringy frenzies that helped make this show great. Thank you all. And thank you for listening. Be your best, be safe, and we will be back next week.