Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - David Shaw of the Revivalists on Why Success Doesn't Make Life Easier

Episode Date: June 30, 2026

David Shaw (The Revivalists) joins Andy for one of the most honest conversations we've had in a long time. Instead of promoting a record, these two dive into the stuff that actually sticks with you: anxiety, fatherhood, burnout, creativity, taking risks, finding happiness, and what it means to reinvent yourself in the middle of life instead of waiting until it's over. They talk about: • Why "midlife crisis" should really be called a midlife awakening • Learning to trust yourself when life forces big decisions • Songwriting, imposter syndrome, and creating music that reflects who you are now • Mental health, breathwork, saunas, sleep, and recovering from burnout • Why comfort can become a trap • Touring, family life, and finding joy in the little things again • The signs the universe gives us when we're willing to pay attention It's funny, vulnerable, philosophical, and packed with the kind of conversation that usually happens after the microphones are supposed to be off. If you've ever wondered what successful artists worry about when no one's watching, this one's for you.

Dave, motherfucking shot. I love it. I love it. Long time notes, too. I feel like we always get our talks in today on these podcasts. It's good. It's good. That's what we do, Maine.

How's it going out there? It's going okay. Had a bit of a scare today. What happened? Woke up to 5 a.m. 2 a.m. tornado warning. We had a tropical storm come through. Tropical storm Arthur hit like last night at like,

you know like middle of the night vibes i i mean i wake up i woke up at like you know 3 30 to use the restroom and i'm i'm looking through the the the window through my bathroom and it's like there's a there's like a strobe light show going on because so much lightning it was kind of it was insane oh my wind was going we're prepared do they do they tell you it's coming you know i mean there's not really much you can do other than just like kind of have a place for where you're going to go if, you know, if something does happen. Is it scary now to have, like, go through weather with having a kid? Definitely.

Yeah. I mean, that's a for sure thing, for sure. I mean, the thing is, yeah, it's like, it's really scary too because it's like, we have the two tallest trees in our neighborhood are like ones on this side of the house and one's behind the house. And the one behind the house is like a pecan tree. So it's like soft wood. and, you know, that's like where Teddy's room is, like in the back of the house.

So it's like, yeah, that's a whole thing. Dude. I mean, especially now you hear about this like Super El Nino? I know. I know. I'm just like, I just got that pad and I got a, we bought this hotel in Mexico, Cabo. Okay, really? Whole midlife crisis right now, buddy.

Dude. You know what? Hold on, hold on. Before you say that, this is, no. I talked to somebody the other day about this. I hate, I don't like that term. Tell me about it. This is, I think it's a negative frame.

I look at it and I think, you know, don't, you don't take my advice, but I think what it is, man, is it's a fucking, it's a midlife awakening. Yeah, you're right. You're fucking waking up to all the things and you're just like seeing all these possibilities and you're like, all right. all right well let's put some energy into this let's put some energy into this i've never done this before let's go over here you know yeah you actually totally right like people some people are afraid to live until they can't live you know dude yes and like you know i don't want to be tired 80 years old and feel like i am going to start my life now we might as well start We're working and we're energized and we're viking, right?

That's it. That's it. How do you feel about what's your midlife awakening? What's, what are you going through? Well, yeah, I mean, oh my God. I mean, I would have to say. We have a lot to talk to in so long. Yeah, it's been a while.

Yeah. It's been a while. My thing right now is, you know, I've just, we've overgrown our house. we're busting out of this place right now and I have to find a place for the family to go and we just don't know because there's just been so many things kind of thrown at us lately with there was like a big article that was written about New Orleans and how you know people should start relocating and wow what's going on because of the sea rise and this like this there's a situation where the city is sinking because of um just the way that they kind of

have diverted some things in the way that like the sediment flows i guess i'm i'm not a scientist so i don't exactly know but i know that the city is actively kind of sinking and then there's also the sea level rise so it's just so it's a it's a tough spot to be in um new orleans cannot catch you know dude yeah it's it's tough i want to you know it's like i want to be like i want to be one of those people that's just like i'm going down with the ship but like the other side of it is just like, you know, it's like, I don't. So that's my reckoning right now. I'm like, how do I, what do I, I just, I'm, I'm deep in that. Like, how do I, you know, take care of myself and the family and, and do what's, you know, do what's right. So what's your heart telling you? You can go back to

Ohio or you're going to go to Lafayette? You're going to stay in Louisiana? What do you want to do? I really don't know. I mean, I might go live in Portugal for, for a year. There's no, pull a frasco. Yeah, there's no rules, man. I mean, why do we put these guidelines on our life that we have to stay around or we have to do things because other people tell us to do? Why can't we just, like, be free and do things for what makes us happy and not feel like we have to do it just because the expectations of you living in New Orleans or whatever? I think that's, you know? I mean, it's, yeah, I think there's also just like, you know, when you look back, you know, if you have a chance to look back and you're like, I don't know, I just, I'd rather have, you know, I'd rather have some scenario where it's like, remember that time we did that thing that was completely insane?

But it was like fun as fuck. And sure, it was hard, but like, you know, these are the things you're going to look back on. You know, you're not going to look back on you. You're not going to be like, oh, man, remember that time I saved all that money? Yeah. You know, that's like, I saved all that money. Got boring for a couple years. Got boring for a couple years?

Like, who gives a shit about that? Well, tell me about the time where you kind of didn't, you did do that. You kind of said, remember that time we lived? Like, what are the most, give me some of those stories. Hmm. Like, you had some curveballs happen. I mean, just being in a band, I think, is one of those for sure. Because it's the biggest, it's like the biggest gamble of all time, you know?

Yeah. And you're like gambling with other people's lives. Yeah. You know, Sam's, one of Sam's friends, I think she was having a conversation with her about something. And I think I came up somehow. And her friend was like, you got lucky there, didn't you? you got lucky there you know like because it could have gone it could have gone fucking wayward you know it could have just gone

a really a very different way um and i know just i know i'd still be doing it and that would be great and i would still be having fun and i would still be loving it um but as far as like taking you know i i i don't know i haven't done i haven't i haven't really like considering you know i have a child now so it's like i feel like there is some part of me that needs to like have some i need to be a bit calculated you know and in some ways you know but then again you're just you're just like okay take the leap and because my daughter doesn't care where we live all she cares about is or all she feels let's say right now is like it does daddy have

a smile on his face, is daddy good? You know, is daddy, like, does daddy have a regulated nervous system? I feel like that's, like, the best, that's the best thing I can give my child is a regulated nervous system to where I'm, like, feeling good and I'm able to provide a calm presence

and energy to her life. So what makes us still stop from doing it if everything you're saying is, like, all good. Is it fear? ADD? ADD? Yeah. Let's see the list of things.

Like, it's ADD. It's the fear of the unknown. Fear of the unknown. That's what it scares me. Like, if I didn't get this rent-controlled place in New York, I probably wouldn't ever have done this. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Like just pulling the trigger. Or just like, it's just trusting yourself that you're doing the right thing, you know? Yeah. I think there's also just, it's like, yeah, trusting yourself. That is a big one for me. Yeah.

As I get older, I'm like, I have to remind myself like, yeah, okay, you got this. Yeah. You know? Like, you passed this long in our lives. We made it to the point of our life. You got this. We still not trust ourselves. Yeah.

I know. That is a, that is a, that's a steady reminder. What do you think is anxiety? I mean, there's definitely a bit of anxiety that, that, that creeps up. all the time and we you know we've talked about this before and it hits yeah it's like man got this great amazing thing coming up this amazing opportunity yeah yeah a little anxiety man actually we're going solo yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly it's what that's that's that you have to do it to prove yourself you could do it it's like yeah it's like we could stay comfortable we could

stay in our thing our whole life and just be comfortable with our nine to five or whatever thing that's working. But then we'll look back and realize I wish I tried, just tried something, you know? Yeah. Any, I mean, that's, you know, that's really where we're at right now. We're kind of like on the precipice of like a big decision, just like with my, in my immediate, you know, sphere, your family and stuff. We're kind of like on that. we're just really going back and forth right now. Something is going to happen. I saw a blue heron the other day yesterday on my bike ride,

and I was like, what it means? I feel like I need to look up what this means. I need a little inspiration from the outside. And it was basically like, here, let me read it. This is what it said. It said, seeing a blue heron symbolizes patience, inner wisdom, self-reliance, and the ability to navigate transitions gracefully.

Because these birds are known for standing perfectly still before taking precise, calculated action. Encountering one is often viewed as a spiritual message to slow down and trust your own timing. Wait, what the fuck? I know. I was like, all right. Okay, cool. Hold on.

That is the universe telling you, dude. Yeah. And for you to recognize what a blue heroin is, impress. So what are you taking with that bit of universal gift? What are you taking with that? I mean, I'm just going to, I'm going to, you know, it tells me that I still need to be, you know, calculated and kind of stay in it, you know, but it's just, that tells me that it's, that's going to happen naturally. And so I could probably just release the, you know, the anxiety of making it happen. You know? Do you think the anxiety drives us? I think it drives us to a point, but then it can become troublesome.

Yeah. You know, it can almost become, I feel like, paralyzing. And then there's that weird, like, addicting thing where, like, you can kind of become addicted to your anxiety because you're not necessarily feeling anything. Oh, yeah. Like that's, you know what I'm saying? And you'll be like, well, your brain will just kind of be like, well, we need to feel something.

Here, this is easy to get. Yeah, I hear you. Because like, even like, you know, your writing is getting so fucking good. Your songs you're putting out of a fucking tear right now, dude. Really? Thank you. Like, genuinely, I'm watching these songs. I'm watching.

You're just, you're, I really feel like. I'm seeing a different, you're blossoming into this next level songwriter, man. It's fucking sick, dude. The new record's good. Thank you, man. Thank you. I appreciate that. Coming from you.

Dude, I'm like, I'm watching them. It's making me smile. All your videos about you just fine-tuning the craft and playing the songs and doing these acoustic things and like really, like the lyrics are hitting. I mean, maybe because I'm going through the same thing you're going through. maybe this is like the first time in my musical career i'm kind of i'm really feeling what you're putting down because i know the anxiety of keeping the train going and keep on making songs that are relatable got to put pressure on you yeah that's a it with fucking grace dude

thanks man thank you i appreciate that um yeah that's it's a it's a it's a tough one I'm... Fucking the worst. Yeah, it's a tough one. It's a tough one because, yeah. Shoo! All right. Hope you're enjoying the interview,

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Go to fucking Jamcut. All right. Hey, boys, what about Jamka? We love it. They fucking love it. We didn't get it. into songwriting to be a songwriter. I don't know. I didn't at least. That wasn't like my path or whatever. No offense to anyone that does because that's an into, it's just like that's, that's what we do.

Right. But yeah. Why'd you get into songwriting? What's up? Why'd you get into songwriting then? Because there was things that needed, that needed to be said. I feel like, you know, like a clan happening in my life, you know, yeah. And I don't think I, I didn't. I didn't. even realize it at the time it was just you know when you're 22 and your you know things are happening in your life you know on the home front whatever you know you kind of just like my outlet was to just like go down into the basement you know my college house and turn up the PA really loud and just bailed out whatever's was inside you know yeah yeah and a few songs kind of started to percolate from that percolate from that um but yeah it's it's it's an interesting thing

man, especially navigating that as you get older, because, you know, rock and roll is a, it's a young energy, you know, it's a young, it feels that way, you know, and it's like, and now I'm a father. So it's like, I've got that thing too. So it's like, there's just, there's like this, you know, it's like, I want to feel like I'm putting out the most authentic, you know, music that is also me. but it's like how do I make that interesting, you know, in the place that I'm at in my life. You know what I'm saying? It's like- You feel like imposter syndrome a little bit?

Like you're trying to- That can happen, you know? That can happen. I try to, what I think has helped me is taking things from my past, pieces of like, you know, things that I've written, you know, from my past that are real. They were real feelings. They were real thoughts. They were real situations.

and then kind of piecing them together with what kind of where I'm at now or something that I'm feeling now. And a lot of times they line up in this way that kind of works together. And then it's like I've kind of got to bridge the gap. Right. You know, and kind of like tell the story of like what has been going on or how I'm feeling now, you know, about something. Do you feel like when you're going back now, like, because you're, you know, you've done the work, you've figured out the trauma, and going back into the trauma, does it trigger you a little bit? It can. It can. It definitely can. But like you said, you've done a lot of work in that area.

Yeah, I'm proud of you, man. You really kind of done, you know, I mean, it's still, obviously, it still can be triggering for sure in all the ways. but I mean just singing about it you know it's just like just getting it out you know is it hard to write a happy song when you're happy like you know you have a great life right now you got a beautiful kid you got a great family that's kind of where I honestly

I love that you ask that question because I've been really trying to like I'm like I want to I want to write some music right now to where I just want to just be able to put it on and it just makes me feel good. Yeah. It makes me feel absolutely just,

it's just like the vibe, you know, that you want to be in. Because that's kind of like where I'm at right now. And it is hard. Dude. It's hard. It's hard. It's really hard. It's really hard of it.

Is it the expectations or if you just feel like, this feels corny or like what is? I think what it is, it's really, it's tough to get past the corny factor, you know, because it's like my brain is tuned to be like, no, that that's not going to work. Yeah. You know, like that's just not, like somebody else could do that. Yeah. But that's not going to work for you, Dave. You know.

You need the doom and gloom, David, Schott. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but I, it's definitely, it's certainly doable. It's just, it takes a little more tuning, you know, because it's like if you're always tuned to this, you know, station, you kind of just got to like and I just have to be patient I think with myself and just be like you know

and it goes back to what you're saying like you're doing this you're not just writing a song or write a song you're doing this to feel something exactly so like you're kind of changing your perspective of how to write songs yeah to do it in the top of your career is fucking wild you know like

but it's like it's kind of beautiful to reinvent to yourself you know. Yeah. It's scary. It's definitely scary. It's weird. There's this like weird middle zone where I feel like it's really easy to like lose the path or lose the,

you know, you can kind of like really just lose it all, I feel like, in that zone. Like I've kind of felt that and been, been, you know, up against that thought or that those feelings quite a bit. But like, I don't know. I had a conversation with Zach, and he was basically just kind of like, I think he said something. We were talking kind of about this. And he was basically just like, you know, well, you don't write, you don't write those records. You know, you wrote those records. You know, you write your, you're in the time of life where you write, you know, your blood on the tracks, you know, or whatever.

So it was just like, it was just kind of like, and I totally get what he means by that. It's just like right where you are. Yeah. You ever go back to feel like, you know, like you've been on this path just riding by yourself or riding with the guys a lot. You ever feel like I'm like in this mindset right now. I want to make a record with the band, you know? Or like, you guys do that already. You went to Vermont last time to make a record?

Yeah, we went to Vermont, yep. So, I'm always like, because I always write in Nashville with Gilbuda, and I'm always not thinking band first when I'm writing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What kind of advice can you give me about making a record with a band versus making a record by yourself? Is it more collaborative? Is it more pressure?

Do you feel like you have to pass the ball more? Like, what are like this? I think you got it. Some weaknesses of that. I think there's a lot of strengths. I think you've got to be able to let go some things, you know? Let go of your own, like, preconceived expectation of what it could be or what it should sound like, you know? Sometimes that's really hard, you know?

But it's like, I think, you know, when you open yourself up to that, like, spontaneous energy of, like, the moment, I've seen it happen with our band a lot of times. My demo will be kind of like bare bones. It'll have the melodies and certain things to it, and then I'll have some ideas. But when we play it in a room with the eight of us now, someone, there's always going to be all these kind of counter melodies coming in that can spark different, you know, ideas that really make the song just like more interesting.

You don't have to use all those pieces all the time. But it's like, now you've got, a lot more colors to play with and a lot more textures to mess around with. It's like, you know, you could, what was maybe just some chords over here on the acoustic guitar could be, you know, a horn pad that's like, you know, lower in the mix, revered out. You know, so like there's all these different little interesting tricks that, you know, can be pulled. I feel like when you have, you know, a band playing. then you're going to get the feeling of the band.

Is it hard to give away control? Sometimes. Maybe, you know, like... Absolutely, sometimes. Of how the production's going to go. And then you have to kind of like bite your tongue and say you're in a band. Yeah, I mean, there's instances where that, you know, where it's just kind of like, well, this is kind of what it is.

And we try, like, we'll try things. And then if we don't get, you know, if we're not, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, take a path that we're just like, this is great or this is better than that, then we just kind of stick with that. But we do let ourselves kind of go off, you know? Sometimes we just feel like, we're like, okay, well, this is, this is just what it is, whatever, you know, what it is, you know, and no one can necessarily, like, see past that, not even the producer, you know, whatever, you know, it's like, they're just like, well, we're not changing this. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's not happening.

I'm fine with that. I'm like, well, cool. Yeah, respect. Okay, respect. Respect. What, do you have like, because you do two projects now, which is fucking sick. Like, do you have songs you feel like go well with David Shaw and then songs that go with revivalists?

Like, how do you departmentalize your songwriting with the solo project and the revivalist tracks? I think that I'm I'm that's a tough that's that's a tough one because I feel like either project could do anything like in my mind well it's you dog yeah either project could do anything yeah um I do think that there is a little more of a focus right now I mean just like and then it's in I and I could say this yeah I would say this but like the the record we're about to put out is is is very much is very much very, there's a lot of wood on this album. There's a lot of, you know, it's a lot of acoustic guitars, a lot of just natural tones. And that was kind of a little more of like what the solo, you know, stuff was. A little more. I mean, there's also, you know, also I have songs like Shaken, you know, on the solo shit. It was just like, you know.

So I, yeah, that's a tough one. I'm still figuring that out because I don't really, you know, like, it's new. It's new. I don't even know. I think I just... Well, okay, I will say what I did with the previous record was like, I just want people to be excited

about the songs that were recording. So like, I'll just, you know, say, here's the 40 songs or 50 songs or whatever. You know, here's like everything I've ever done, you know, from 2012 or 2007 or whatever, we go, when you listen through them and people kind of vote on them, So it's like, well, here's the songs that are people are excited to do.

So that was a pretty good way, I think, to kind of go about it, where it's like I can get excited about anything, really. You know, I can. I don't know, I, you're a better man than I am. I'm like, I want it this way. I want it this way. I want these songs. If I get, and that's okay. And that's okay.

These songs are my C songs and they like the C song, I get kind of pissed. I'm like, fuck, I got to record that. But maybe also it's in our head thinking we think it's a C song, but it could be a... Exactly. That's the thing. A top tier song. Yeah. It was art of collaboration passing the ball, right?

I think so. I mean, I think so. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Why are we overthinking this shit? Yeah. Well, that was one of the ways for me not to overthink it. That was kind of like the, that was the hack for me to be like, all right.

this is too hard. I can't figure this out. I'm just going to put all these songs together and here we go. You know, there's going to, and, you know, it's like there's always going to be the obvious songs that it's like, well, if this doesn't make it, that's crazy. Like, I'll have a few that I'm like, we're probably going to, I'd love to do this one.

And people are like, yeah, great, let's do it. I love that song too. And then the producer has a thought, you know. So who has the final say? You and Zach or just the whole band or? well i mean at terms of like what gets cut if you you know it's like if i really want to put a song on the record

you know put a song on we'll put the song on the record but like there's not really instances where like anyone has to really do that you know thankfully you know um you still get stressed out with your career

Yeah. I mean, yeah, for sure. I mean, I had this. It's like a retortical question, but like, you know, like, why do we still stress out when we know it's just always going to do well? Or do you want to, or do you keep stride? I just keep on striving to get bigger? My situation is a little, like, I just, I had some ear stuff, you know, pop up in like 2017, 2018. Oh, you told me about that. Yeah, that was scared. Yeah. The hyperacusus stuff. Yeah, you're, so, like, I have to be, like, really careful kind of, you know, because I could have a, what's what they call is a setback, where it's like something, you know, something, some kind of loud sound could come in and, you know, now I've got to, you know, be really protective. And, you know, it's like if, if I'm hearing anything over 80 decibels, it hurts, you know, it gives me pain back here. So, like, I've got to, you know, I've got to, you know, I've got to. I've, you know, got like yeah dude it's crazy yeah how do you how do you control your in ear volume don't you so what's i just keep it i keep my inner volume low pretty low oh shit you know so like that's a bit of a

stressful thing because you know like and then this is the craziest thing dude so i had that thing happened and then like i don't know this was like a year and a half ago i'm walking out my front door and i turn to the right go down the steps and we have this we have a bunch of bamboo right in our courtyard there. And a little piece of bamboo was like sticking out and I shit you not, bro. It stuck me right in the eardrum and punctured my ear drum. Are you serious? I swear.

I'm laughing, but what? I know. It's the craziest thing of all time. You do not. That was like, I was like, this is, this is insane. Like, what are the chances of that? You know, I have this one thing happened, you know. And then I get, you know.

saying you're being too over-nervious about this thing? Maybe it's, or maybe it's saying, take care of these things. It's, I don't know, that's where my brain goes. Take care of these things. Don't take these things for granted, sir. You know? That blue herring, dude. Yeah.

Yeah. But thankfully that healed, I didn't hit any, you know, bones or, you know, small bones. So we're good. It's crazy. Yeah, the universe will give you signs if you're overworked. or if you're not thinking about things you should be thinking about, you know. And we just don't, we're sometimes too blinded to just be present enough to see the signs, you know?

So I'm reading, you're so right. And that was the feeling that I was getting, that I was not, I was not seeing the, or I wasn't catching enough omens. Yeah. You know, I was just kind of barreling through life. And one of the things I've done recently is I started rereading the book, The Alchemist. Because I read it. Planet.

I read it in like, I don't know, like 2013 or something. And it really imprinted on my life. And I took a lot of that. I mean, it was kind of like. Cuello? Paulo Cuello? Yes, exactly. At the pilgrimage, too. All of them are fucking great. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So it's just, you know, it's a, it's a quick read. It's an easy read. It's a great story. You know, it's like a sneaky self-help book, you know? It's like...

What did you relearn? What were the things you saw that you didn't see? Well, I'm literally in the middle of rereading it right now. And it's so... It's one of those things where it's like... One of the things that recently kind of... one of the pages, one of the things that was basically said, it was like, you know, it's like, don't get caught, you know, like, the oasis can also be a bit of a trap. Hold on, you know. And that kind of, and it wasn't,

there wasn't much said other than that, you know. And I think to me, that the reason. Is it because the oasis is an illusion? Exactly. It can be an illusion. Exactly. Well, in the book, there is this, like, oasis that's kind of like,

happening, you know? And it's not really, um, so I don't know, to me it's like, I guess it's kind of saying, like, I don't know, you could take it a few different ways, but to me it was like, just, you know, pay attention. Don't get a little, don't get too comfortable, but also like, you know, just don't, don't just kind of like, be like, okay, I did this thing. All right, I can, I'm, I'm good now, you know, like. And it's a bit of a balance because you want to just be able to enjoy something. Exactly. You want to just be able to enjoy, you know.

But you still want to drive. But you still want to, you know, like have that drive or just be creative and look for the next thing. It doesn't always just have to be in music. You know, it doesn't always just have to be in songwriting. Bingo. You can just, you know, you have to be. You know, I'm a creative person. Yeah.

I can be creative in all facets of life. 100%. I mean, you're, you could tell by how good of a dad you are. You can tell how good of a husband you are. You can tell how good of a friend you are. Like, anytime I need something, you're fucking there for me whenever we're talking side stage. Like, I could tell, like, when you put the attention into something, you do it. Well, your game recognize the game, you know.

My bro. You got. You know, how much I, you inspire me, Dave, you know, we're, we're, I was thinking, like, Like, what was the oasis as in your career? Like, what were you striving for? Another successful song. Like, what was the pinnacle of, for you to finally put your shoulders down? Hmm.

Or get comfortable. And then when you get comfortable, like, fuck, I shouldn't get comfortable, you know? Man, that's tough. I mean, because, I mean, I could be in the oasis right now. You know? I could be in the oasis right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, and in a lot of, you know, in a lot of ways I am, you know,

and I think that's another, another thing that kind of, it was the reason why it kind of stuck with me was it was like, hey, like, maybe you need to, you know, shift and put some energy over here, put some energy over here. It doesn't mean you've got to leave the oasis. just understand the fact that, you know, that this can be an intoxicating thing. Yeah. And it's okay. What's up on me? And it's okay to have different oasis as you get over. You know, I felt like I was getting comfortable, you know, getting coming here, just vibrant.

But I needed this so much living in New York to understand that I'm not stuck, you know. I'm not. I'm still a human being who wants to go and walk around a city and try out all the different pizza spots and not just going to Kansas or like not the musician or the songwriter writing about happy stuff. I wanted to know that I wasn't putting myself in a nine to five box that everyone's expectations of us to just keep working, right? Absolutely. Because I mean, that's just it never ends, you know. So you have to take your own, you know, you have to kind of, you know. And they'll keep taking and taken because of caregivers.

And we have to realize, and we got to take a step back and realize we have to give to ourselves. We can't replenish with a hole in the bottom of our cups. Nope. Nope. I learned that the hard way in 2019. Oh, yeah. I think we talked about that. We fucking talked about, dude.

But yeah, so looking back on that, do you think you're glad you did the work? I'm glad I did the work. I'm glad I started the work, and I'm glad I have the tools now to kind of deal with the inevitable things that also just continuously crop up. What are the tools? Breathing. Breathing, breathing, breathing, slow breathing. Wimhoff breathing, you know, Tumo breathing. 426 breathing, 478 breathing.

breathing. Oh, you're deep in the breathing. I, I, I, I just, it has given me so much. It has given me, it has like, it's the only thing of all these, you know, things that I've tried that has really, absolutely works every time without fail. no it's like a it really is a i mean i'll just i don't know if it works for some people better than others but all as i know is it works for me man is this is like dental meditation it's not it no i did that for a while i got my certification i did the whole thing oh you are breather dog yeah i i did that and it that was great you know like meditation i think is great but what i think what i for me was that doing the breath work. So I'll do it

at night before I go to bed and then in the morning. The first thing when I wake up, it's just like a, that's just like it's a non-negotiable basically. It's like the first, I wake up. For 20 minutes. It's about 20. It takes about 20 minutes. Sometimes it's a little longer, but it's like these rounds of,

you know, you kind of do your breath work. You do your breathing. You do 30 in and a you do 30. 30 of those. You're going to get lightheaded a little bit the first time you kind of do it. I don't really get lightheaded anymore. Can you do it by yourself or can you do it around people? I'd be embarrassed to do around people. Well, I don't, I don't really. I do it by myself. I'm not around my mind. Like I would sometimes do it in the bed with like when my wife is like sleeping and she'd be like, no. Like I can't. No, no, no, no. This is not happening right now. So I just, I'm out on the couch. I'm trying to come. I'm nervous with him, baby. Yeah, exactly. I'm doing this.

for you. Yeah, you want me to be all pissed off enough when you wait. Yeah, yeah. So, but no, it really, you know, you do, you do that. And then you, there's a retention phase where you're, you go, you kind of, you know, at your last breath, you breathe it all out, then you hold your breath. And you hold it for two minutes, two and a half minutes, sometimes, three minutes. And that, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. Like today, let's see here, let's just tell you. I mean, it's not, it's not a competition, you know, but like, so I'll just tell you, today, what was I, what did I do today? Let's see. Here's today.

Oh, yesterday was a particularly good one. Let's see here. All right. Oh, yeah. I had a three minutes and 27 second breath hold, a three minute and 11 second breath hold and a one minute and 51 second breath hold. But I say all that, I say all that to say that, like, like and you believe me you do it you're a singer also like you'll you you've got some lung

control you've got some lung capacity um what i'll say is in those that's where for me where i'm not breathing and i'm in that like zone of just like where like when you're not breathing you're not getting any kind of like thoughts to your brain like it's just like a oh it's like a survival it's like it's just like off you know it's like so i kind of yeah and i'm like i'm like i'm like i'm like I've got my, like, eye mask on. So I'm just, like, in this, like, blackness for, like, three minutes, which is just, like, incredibly healing, I feel like. And incredibly, like, it just takes your, if your heart rate is at...

Peaceful. 75 or whatever, it's taking it down to 60. If your blood pressure's at 130 over 80, it's taking it down to 115 over 65 or 7. You know, it's like... Everyone says when he's died. Everyone says when you die, it's... Like everyone panics about dying the last moments, but I think those last moments of death, it's got to be peaceful like that. It's probably euphoric a little bit, you know?

And then, you know, I mean, yeah, like, I don't know, I feel like, you know, some people say that, you know, you've heard that, you know, they start seeing relatives or whatever, you know, that's got to be wild. And this is why Jerry, do you know Jerry used to do this as scuba diving? He would go scuba diving. Really? Because Jerry Garcia would go scuba diving because it was the only time he could be alone and be in this still. Like, I think it's, I'm imagining it's the same thing you're feeling when you're. I bet. I can guarantee.

I can sense into that because it's like, yes, there is a bit of a calming factor because you're, you're intentionally breathing in a certain way. Yeah. You kind of have to. I've never been scuba diving, but I feel like it's kind of the same thing. Have you been? always have you fuck no I'm too claustrophobic for that but

I would I feel like I might be I don't know it's definitely something I want to try yeah I don't know I do want to try it because I think it would just be incredible to just like be able to like like you're floating you know you got the fins on

you're just like in the water you're able to kind of just like go here go there like when you get in some deep you know I don't know it just seems like it would be pretty incredible but yeah no I would probably feel a little a little claustrophobic as well how long did it take you to finally realize you're accountable like you hold the jewels to your happiness and like you know like how we're like you know when we're kids or like oh our mom's going to figure this out for us or like once you get older you don't have that

safety net anymore and you have to kind of just love, you kind of have to do the work yourself to find happiness, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I'm still, like, I don't even, I couldn't even say finally. Like, I could say that I'm just kind of still figuring that out, honestly. Yeah. Damn. You know?

It's something that, like, comes, and I'll think I got it, and then it just slips through my fingers. Yeah. It's kind of weird. Well, that's like. The same, the oasis thing, right? Yeah, a little bit. Maybe the, maybe the thought is to like, don't try to hold it so tight, you know? Or it's like when you notice that you're in it, then you're out.

Yeah. You know, kind of vibe? Or just like be okay when it kind of, when sadness comes back. That too. And like, you know, because sadness will go away. like happiness comes back you know like if we hold on to depression and we're just marinating depression sadness can't or happiness can't even come to take a breath because we can't see it's like the same thing you're saying with the breathing right yep 100% I I also think man that

like I don't know I think that I've been been trying to do a lot of work and like the I just feel like there's a, for me anyways, you know, there's like a lot of physical factors that, that, um, influence my mental health. And, and I know there's, you know, there's, it's kind of all the rage right now, but it's just so true.

It's like, if my gut is good, you know, if I've been eating certain things that make, you know, that, you know, replenish the, the, the, the, the bacteria and the things that need to be, you know, in there, then I am feeling, I'm feeling good. Well, yeah, did you have like some gut problems? Like, I had some issues. Yeah, I had some

issues, had to cut out some things. Um, so it's like, it's really, it's kind of wild, man. It is wild. How, how, how connected that situation is. Um, I have, I, dude, 100% of, agree with that. Like, even like, I've been doing 45 minutes saunas every day. 45 minutes, bro? I go, wow. I go, I do 15 on, then three minute cold plunge. I do this fancy, I go to this fancy. I know where you go. Where do you go? We don't need to say it on here. But, yeah, I know where I, I know where you go. Dude, that shit is sick, dude. Honestly, it's honestly like, help me. Like, you know, just taking out the

metals in my body. Like, yeah. I'm not losing. I always, at first I'm like, I'm doing this to lose away. I'm like, no, I'm doing this to get dopamine back. You know?

Absolutely. I'm, I'm so in. It's the same thing. I go to, I go to Assan every day. I don't stay 45 minutes. I think I would just, I don't know. My body's not built for that.

Or at least I haven't done that yet. But I would stay. Dude, I got a fat too, Dave. Hold on. Look at this shit. What do you got? Oh, you got that. Oh, yeah.

It's important. Dude. Fucking hat, dude. Yeah. you got to have the hat you don't want to you don't want to make turn your hair all brittle and start like a lupa dude um yeah i was like no but i'm like and then i start studying it like it's the same thing the breathing stuff it's controlling it's like the when you're on the 33 degree cold plunge you do that 33 degree i do i do three minutes at a time uh 33 i'm fucking crazy with it

But I feel so much better. Like, I do 50 minutes sauna, three minute, 33 degree water, a little bit of hot water on me afterwards, then go back in the sauna. Another 15, and I do three rounds of that. Wow. That is impressive. That's incredible, man. But it's like, I'm alone with my thoughts. And I'm, like, I'm writing down.

I'm, like, journaling and sweats. I'm like, I feel like. I love that. I'm like, yeah. It's like, I don't know. That's hardcore. That's another level. That's another level.

That's amazing, dude. That's really amazing. I think that it's the same level of holding your breath for three fucking minutes, brother. That's insane. And you're by yourself and you feel like you're dying, right? No, you don't. That's the thing. That's the thing.

You don't really because you've super oxygenated your blood kind of, you know, by doing. the, yeah. You know, you kind of, I don't know, it's weird. It's a very, it's, to me, it's extremely calm. Like, it's like,

it's another level of calm. It's kind of like, it's just, I don't know, it's wild. It's wild. Dude. How do you do it on the road? How do you find that piece on the road? I do, I mean, I'm doing that shit in my hotel room.

Absolutely. Absolutely. What about like when you're on the bus? Like a bus. tour. I don't ride the bus. That's my boy. See? Well, no, but my situation is actually worse.

You scared of them? No, I can't sleep on it. Oh, yeah, you need to sleep. I can't sleep on it, and there was years where, like, I wasn't sleeping on it, and it was, that was the thing that was just, like, complete hell for me. Oh, that would drive me nuts, dude.

I need to sleep. I'm still paying for that, like, that special little three. years of my life. You think that's why you broke down in 19? Absolutely. Absolutely. I didn't put that together, dude. I remember we talked about that.

That's the reason, dude. That's the reason. Were you going crazy? I was going nuts. I was going crazy. Like what? Hold on. It was bad.

I mean, I didn't realize that put one in one together while you had that mental breakdown because of the fucking sleep deprivation. Yeah, dude. It was that. It was that. It was like, and there was one particular show that I remember. Oh, my God. I hadn't slept in three days.

And then we like go to play like a, I don't know, 5,000. It was like a sold out Boston show. Like it was a, I forget the place, but it was like huge. It was like one of our biggest shows ever. And I hadn't slept in three days. And so it's like now, like. You feel like a crackhead? I have a total crack hit.

I don't even know how I made it, dude, honestly. I would lose my mind, dude. I'd be so nervous. I mean, I don't know. And like you kind of probably felt like when you're relapsing, when you're doing drugs when you're younger. I mean, it was another level of like, I mean, honestly, though, I will say the relief after that show was insane.

I think I think, I think, I think, I think, I think I was able to, like, get to a hotel after that show, and I think we had, like, two days off. And I don't think I left the hotel, you know, like, so. That you tell you told your body, like, hey, I need for, in order for me to do this all the time, I need to sleep in a hotel. I can't do the travel day. So what, do you drive at a day? So, or do you fly? I'll sleep in a hotel and I'll either fly or I'll drive, depending, you know, if it's a, if it's a, if it's a, if it's a day.

a, you know, if it's a two, three hour drive, easy. I'll just get a rental car and boop. You're a fucking gags, dude, dude. You are a real one-of-one dude, dude. Yeah. Every time I talk to you, you fucking impress me, man. You're dedicated to craft. You're dedicated to finding yourself.

And you're dedicated to your family, man. And not all the people I give. And, like, just to be dedicated to the craft is hard enough. and to have the stress of making record after record and bangor after banger and you fucking execute that and you take it on the chin and I know it probably weighs on you

a shit ton and like trying to make your band happy and trying to pass the ball so everyone loves each other while you're taking care of a family while you're taking care of your fucking self man you should have on the back I mean a lot of people can't take stress like that brother

and you're still fighting yourself you're doing the breath one You're doing the, you're like, you're still finding ways to, like, make you love this thing, you know? Absolutely. So, like, my question is, like, what are, what little things did you find inside your career that you kind of love again, you know, that we took for granted, you know? Well, I'll just say, one of the things that I, honestly, I did a, I did a van and trailer tour with the solo band. Oh, we haven't even talked about this. Oh, my God.

Questions. And what I found out through that whole experience was like, oh, my God. Like, I absolutely love this. I loved just like, I loved those like, you know, you're driving for three hours. You stop. You're about to, you're about to roll into the gas station. Maybe you'll look at a few things. You know, exactly, exactly.

I was just like, I had this realization of just like, I couldn't have done this for 10 plus years with that if I didn't love it. Right. You know? Because it's like when you get in a bus and your situation changes. Yeah. It's a whole different. And like.

Yeah, exactly. It's just it's all, it's very different. And that there's a lot of good that comes from that, you know, for sure. But it was just a really nice realization of like, oh my God, like, I love this. this is this is this is what it is like i could still do this right you know i agree 100 absolutely like i just love it you know sure there's some hard early mornings and some late night drives that suck you know but it's like it's always just like you know there's you know and if if there's like a camaraderie and and a vibe going you know with thankfully you know i had that

with you know with my band it's like then you're you're good and sometimes we forget where we came from exactly and we did that's what we loved in the beginning like the the idea of fucking being explorers with your buddy and checking out finding out what you love about a pilot gas station you know and like exactly i mean exactly that on the path of success because you have bigger pressures now and that's more not about getting to the venue it's about writing another song that got you to the success are bigger than the other one, you know? Like, we forget that life can be simpler if we just get out of our own fucking way.

Absolutely. Yeah, because I never worried about writing a big song when I was writing those big songs. Right. And that's what I was trying to ask you in the beginning, like, without like, there's got to be pressure, dude, in your brain. You're like, I got to write a song like that. again, you know, even if it's like not subconsciously, just to keep the train going. But I don't think, I don't know, I'm just over and all.

No, it's, no, it's, I mean, that's what, that's, that's what we do. It's, it's interesting because I, it's like you can't, it's like those, that time period, you know, in our lives when we're like young and every, there's like certain things that are just like new. Right. You know, and everything is kind of like, you're experiencing all these new things and then you're putting all this new stuff that's just hitting you for the first time down on the paper or into melody it's like it's gonna it's gonna stay with you just potentially more than things you know so it's like now that's kind of why i think when i had that conversation with zach about just like you know it's like well that's you you wrote that then

you write this now you know so it's like it's trying to like and But that also, that leads into the moving, moving away, having a new experience. Yeah. Something that kind of knocks you out of the, you know, the status quo that you might be in. You know, it doesn't have, you don't disrupt, you don't have to like, you know, upheaval, you know, your whole life. Right. But it's like living with intention and, you know, and taking certain calculated risks, you know. You know, I don't even want to, I hesitate to even call them risks.

Because it's, you know, they could, could be risks. But it's like that, mental risk. Exactly. But it's like, that's where the, that's where it is. That's where the energy is. Good. I never felt it. Yep.

I never felt more inspired than coming out here. Nobody, I didn't tell anyone I moved out here. And love that. And I'm walking around. Everyone's like, uh, yoke, where are you? Aren't, weren't, I'm like canceling interviews. I'm just like, I'm just kind of doing my own thing. You're doing you right now.

Yeah. You're downloading. That's what, exactly, download. That's why I want you to fucking get that French Riviera baby. I want that little pencil mustache out of you. I want a little fuck. I need to see, I need to see a little striped shirt. How did you see European Dave, a little striped shirt, you know?

Write some fucking French. balance fucking nothing matters I think it's in my future you know I think it's in my future I do too man I think

you know my wife's French yeah your wife is French she's so badass dude what a fucking rock in your life oh man yeah she's sick she's absolutely incredible she's yeah

it's and in all the ways you know I'm happy for you Dave I hope you really find internal happiness and you're on the path of it even if it gets little better and better every day.

Just know that you're doing a great thing. And if not enough people tell you that, I'll tell you every day how hard you work and how much you probably take it on the chin and to do it and still find yourself through it. That's why you're one of my mentors, man. I appreciate that, bro. Same.

We didn't even talk about music or the new record, but they'll find. Honestly, Like, I feel like these are the types of conversations that people want to hear. Yeah, man. Like, right? Like, they can hear me talk about, they're going to hear me talk about the record. Yeah, they'll hear.

A bunch of different places. But, like, they're not going to get this conversation anywhere else. No, and, you know, it's just us catching up. I mean, I only get to see you once a year. So it's like, yeah. I just love you, man. I think you're in. I see Zach Moore.

I mean, I'm in Nantucket. Those motherfuckers are always there, dog. I know. He might move there. He might move there. Yeah. I was like,

I'm surprised you guys aren't making the Nantucket diary record, dude. Guys are always a fucking Nantucketucket, dog. Right. But yeah, but I'm proud of you. Can't wait to hear all the new tunes. Send it over. I want to hear the other ones. Dude.

I can't believe you. Yes. I'll send it right now. Dude, Zach showed me some. I'm like, damn, dude, these are fucking real. This is the record you made in Vermont with that dude? Yeah, Rich. Rich.

That guy's awesome, dude. He gets some great sounds out of you guys. He's really good. He's like, he has some really, like, he's an incredible mixer. I think he just, like, he really knows, like, we wanted to use somebody who, like, would, like, make us sound just like us. Because, you know, like, sometimes you get a producer, and it's like you're going to sound like this producer.

Yeah. And like he's really just the guy that's like, okay, like we're going to get this sick drum tone, the sick bass tone, the sick guitar tone, and then we're going to put that together, and that's going to sound like you guys.

Yeah, and you guys are going to sound like you. I like that philosophy. It's good. It works for us, I think. Good. It's like your third record of them or second record? Second. Yeah.

You did the last one with them, right? Yep. Kid. Yep. Kid on it, good old days. That song is good. Dude, this new song you just put out, the single, is very good. The hook is very nice.

Thank you, man. You getting some good track here on radio play at all, or is it? Yeah, things are moving forward. I mean, it's, you know. In a buzz. Yeah, it feels good. It feels really good. I mean, the reception, honestly, to the record has been better than I could have ever, you know.

Like I just, I don't, when we put a, when we start putting stuff out, I'm just like, all right, I'm done. Yeah. I need to just not, you know, think about this. Get out of your own way, David Shaw. Yeah, exactly. Who gives a fuck? You're already on to the new record. Nothing matters.

That's right. You already put it out there. You took the shit. Now just flushed down the toilet and, and told the shit. Right. Move on to the next one. Oh, man. It sounds like my fucking dad, dude.

I call my dad and when I'm sad. Or if I feel like I'm just in an existential crisis artistically. He's like, you've been doing this. You have 11 records under your belt. Who do you? Is this the anxiety that makes you want to fucking keep writing? If it is, let it go. But if it's going to kill you and give you cancer over the stress,

is it worth it? Is it worth it? No. No. Fuck, we need to learn how to calm down. Take a breath. We made our art. We've had a great career.

and people are going to stay with us because we're good people. And we just keep making good art. And if we can make good art with less stress, I think we'll make even better art. Absolutely. I think that's so true. So true. So true. It's just keep breathing.

And I'll keep going to the sauna. All right. And I will see you in there. Next time I'm in New York City. One of these years we're going to do a run together and we'll just have a sauna in the back. That's when we do our meeting. of the minds. You'll teach you how to breathe. I'll teach you how to stay in that motherfucker over 45 minutes. Okay. I'm down. Oh, bud. Well, I love you, man. Get out there. Go have some fun. I hope I see

a French or a Portuguese tin fish in your future. Oh, it's already, I got a ton of that already in there. Dude, that'd be the best thing about going to Spain or Portugal is just like going to these tin fish houses, dude. That's my, oh man, I'm crushing the tin fish these days. Me too, bro. macro. I'm all about it. That's a skinny guy like me. That's a perfect, that's the perfect first thing in the morning. I know, my wife hates it. She's like, this is disgusting. Get away from me. You're turning it to an old Jew, dude. I got my tin fish. I got my tin fish in the morning, kid. In the morning. I take my breathing and then I go read the newspaper. I want to be that old guy too. Eating tin fish

outside just just got fucking fish fish bones in my mouth talking about the weather with some woman let's go let's go all right bud go have fun get out there go kick some ass keep keep being you i'm ruin yon absolutely brother you do the same i know you will no man let me know um i'll see you soon i know i will okay i'll always see you all right there buddy peace