Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 113: Maggie Rose & Cody Wales (Magic Beans)

Episode Date: February 16, 2021

We leave no emotional stone unturned this week as Andy connects deeply, emotionally to a Nina Simone song and is then moved by a show about an existentially depressed cartoon horse. On the Interview Hour we welcome new friend to the show and masterful singer, Maggie Rose! Dolav sends Andy his stereophonic birthday well wishes with a side of career advice. And Cody Wales from Magic Beans joins Andy to close us out. This is EP 113. Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out Andy's new album, "Keep On Keepin' On" on iTunes Spotify  Listen to Stars and more from Nina Simone Listen to the inimitable, Maggie Rose at www.maggierosemusic.com Produced by Andy Frasco Joe Angelhow Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Ahri Findling Dolav Cohen Arno Bakker

Andy, it's your agent. Having a hard time finding any shows in March or April or May at this point. You know, let's shoot for the summer, maybe. In the meantime, I'm going to take the rest of the month off. Later. Hey, Andy, this is Mike Stevenson. I am the booker for the hard rock tampa i am looking to book you to play a concert on april 1st i tried to get in touch with your

manager he keeps giving me the blow off but we're looking to do an insane blowout down here in Tampa. I'm sick of this corona bullshit. I don't know if you are, but we want to throw an absolute rager. I'm talking no social distancing, no masks, no temper checks. We just do this shit like it's 2019 and we go absolutely balls to the wall. I will pay you whatever you want. I just want to make sure that you are okay saying fuck the CDC, fuck the federal government. So give me a call back if you're interested. Again, this is Mike at the Hard Rock Tampa.

We'd love to have you. Give me a call. Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast. How we doing, everybody? How's our heads? How's our minds? Are we staying out of trouble? Getting out of those weird anxieties that don't fucking exist.

Jesus. We do that a lot. We just think about things that don't fucking exist and it'll make us sad it can make us happy but it's not real we gotta search for authenticity

we gotta search for being present and normally anxiety doesn't make you present so it's hard to get out of anxiety it's hard to get out of everything that makes us scared. But I was listening to this song by Nina Simone. I'm telling you, you guys got to watch BoJack Horseman. A lot of entertainers out there listen to this podcast.

I know there are. Watch this season. And if you're too lazy to watch five seasons of this, just watch the last three episodes. No, watch the whole season, you'll love it, I'm serious, but this song is on here, it's so beautiful, and I don't know, maybe I'm going through this thing right now, it's like, I'm having a little, I just turned 33, actually, on the 11th, and you know, it's like, it's like I was saying last week, I don't feel old, but I don't feel young.

And I do feel like I'm a different person than I was when I was fucking 20 and just like being a fucking punk and just like getting wasted and just fucking and just, you know, just living selfishly. And I don't know if this song means anything to that, but it sure hit me that way. Just listen to this song. We'll listen to this for a couple minutes, and then let's talk about what we want to talk about. It's so fucking beautiful. It's by Nina Simone.

It's called Stars, live at Montrose. Stars, they come and go. They come fast, they come slow. They go like the last light of the sun all in a blaze All you see is glory But it gets lonely there when there's no one there to share You can shake it away if you hear a story people lust for fame like athletes in a game

they break their collarbones and come up swinging some of them are crowned some of them are downed some are lost and never found Giving it all for everybody Besides themselves

Well, kind of Maybe Keep listening But most have seen it all They live their lives inside cafes And music halls. And they always have a story. Some make it when they are.

Like Michael J. Fox. Before the world is done as a dirty job later on someone will say you've had your day now you must make way Don't they always But you'll never know the pain Of using a name you never owned Of the years of forgetting What you know too well That you who gave the crown Have been let down

You try to make amends Without defending Perhaps Pretending Damn! Nina! I never saw the eye Nina.

I play that song because you never know what people are going through, what they've experienced, what they've done, and what they're trying to shake from their past. We all have flaws and difficulties and experiences, just little things that you do when you're a kid that we'd like to forget. Because I was trying to date this girl and I was getting all these, her friends were telling her all these rules. Oh, Andy Frasco, he's just a hoe. He's trying to fuck, whatever. And I really wasn't. But from my past and from the reputation

or what they see on fucking social media and on stage or whatever, they try to analyze someone's whole life when maybe that's not the person you are. Maybe sometimes we all hold a costume because we're insecure. I'm not just saying this like, oh, fuck you for calling rumors about me.

I do this too. I judge people like my friends from middle school and my friends from high school. I have this resent towards them a little bit because how they treated me when I was a kid. And maybe I was jealous that they were the cool kids or whatever the mix of fucking puberty formula was that you can't get over it.

And we need to understand that we could change. That's why we're working on ourselves. That's why we work on ourselves every day. I put people in categories. We all do. Because we're trying to figure out ourselves. And that's the fucked up thing about it. We got to stop. We got to stop. We need to give people more chances. Maybe your parents or your mom or your uncle was such a

fucking dick to you when you're younger. Maybe he was going through a divorce and maybe he lost his job and we don't know those things. And we hold on to these things without communicating. We need to be better communicators with the people around us and we need to be better communicators with ourselves. Just because you experience so much stuff doesn't mean, you know, you're a hoe or whatever. I don't know. Not like that, but you know what I'm talking about. Just because someone's experienced more and seen more in life in such a short time, you need to take a step back and say,

oh yeah, these musicians are deal. This is why these guys are going through mental health problems. And these guys, a lot of these people are committing suicide because everything is so fast and this stimulation, stimulation, stimulation. That when you take a halt on it, our brain and our body is just so used to stimulation. So when people are sad, don't shoo them away just because they're sad. We need to understand What people go through We're humans

We fuck up We do things that we used to do That we might not do anymore You know So take a step back And just Before you start talking shit to people In your friends group and then

being nice to them or whatever, probably the same people were at my house drinking beers and have fun. And, uh, you know, that's the thing. Take a step back and realize maybe they're going through something before we judge book by its cover. So we'll stop judging people by their cover. I say that for myself. I'm not just saying that because I'm pissed off because I ruined this great relationship with this girl because her friends were talking shit. It just reminded me what I need to do now

and always give people more credit, give people more support, and give people a longer leash. We need to hear people out so we can come together and be people that grow as a community, a society. Our kids are our kids' kids. Maybe I don't have kids, but your kids' kids can keep developing this idea that community is important because the more this quarantine happens, the more we get separated from each other. And we realize we aren't separated.

We have each other's backs. You have each other's backs. You are stronger than this fucking depression or this loneliness. There are people around you if you just take a step back, ask for help. Okay. Sorry, I was intense there take a step back, ask for help. Okay. Sorry. I was intense there. We had a great show for you.

And we're looking for a sponsor. So if anyone is interested in sponsoring the podcast, let me know. We'll talk to Joe Angel or email us at worldstampodcast or email me and I'll try to get to you. But yeah, we're looking for a sponsor. Um, okay guys, I'm in, I'm out. We're going to make this happen. It's a birthday celebration to celebrate the masses. Um, thanks for everyone for giving me all these birthday wishes. I got tons of birthday wishes. Thank you. It's, you know, it means a lot that you guys care about me. I love you all very much. You know how much I care about you,

and to see the same support is going to make me cry. So I'm always here for you, and I know you're always here for me. So ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy Maggie Rose. And then after that, we got Cody Wales from the Magic Beans. All their shit got stolen out of their trailer, and their trailer got jacked on fucking Valentine's Day. Fucked up.

So they got to go fund me and go support the boys. They're good guys. Local Denver band, up and coming. They're still getting their feet wet in the scene and I don't want them to lose traction over this little fucking shitty situation of getting a trailer stolen with all their merch and stuff. So donate when you can.

All right, guys. Let's start the show. Next up on the interview hour, we got my girl Maggie Rose. Badass. Badass singer-songwriter. She's got a podcast called Salute the Songbird, where she interviews all the badass women in our industry. And it's a great listen. Go listen to that. But let's listen to her music right now. Chris, play some Maggie Rose. Don't you see the happy couple? Aren't they fine? Aren't they beautiful? Some could say they got it all.

Well, Lord, I sure hope so. I met her in the Peach Fest. I think I met her at the Peach Fest for the first time. And she was super sweet. We got to hang out with her and her husband. And she's close with my guitar player, Sean. We have similar stories where

we're trying the fucking rat race and she was doing it in Nashville, I was doing it in LA and just trying to do her thing and then she had to deal with some crazy shit actually. Crazy shit on the yard. And I can't wait for you to hear about that but like I said

she's sweet she's compassionate and her story is insane so I can't wait for you to listen to it so let's keep rocking Miss something that you never had Oh, you can't miss something that you never had Oh, you can't miss something that you never had All the things are gonna come to you But maybe not when you want them to

Just remember them till they do The good news, the good news, baby You can't miss something that you never had, it can't feel good if you feel it back, the grass is always greener, always something bigger out there

and it can't be found if you can't find your heart Andy what's up? Podcaster. It's so good to see you. Oh, I know. Thank you for all the tips that you were giving me as I launched my own podcast, because I love, love the World Saving Podcast.

It was a good crash course on how to not suck at what I'm doing. Let's hear your story. I really don't know much about you other than you popped into my life really at Peach Fest. Yes. And it was such a nice surprise to hang out. So give me the background. Why music? What happened? What's going on? Well, music, I was definitely called to music just by the fact that I can sing. I've always loved singing. Even as a kid, I'm a very social creature. And I knew that my voice was something that made people want to gather and stick around. And it brought people joy. Of course, I love the attention. Who's going to lie about that if you're a musician?

How old did you know you were dope at it? How old were you when you knew you were dope at it? I mean, it's some of my first memories, but I think five years old, I knew that I had something special. I don't come from a particularly musical family, but I have a family that's always loved to hear me sing and encouraged me to perform for their friends and let me sing around the house. So it was evident to me that okay this is something that i can do that maybe not everyone can do and other than that like you know nick mcdaniels he and i grew up from big something he and i grew up in the same bubble and i actually went to school catholic school with his little sister tara and you know if Nick's been able to tell you about

the culture that we grew up in, it was pretty straight laced and you were well behaved and you had to get good grades and you're expected to go to college. Like both of my sisters are attorneys. I couldn't be further from the profession that they ended up choosing. So I feel like singing was always there. Performing came when I got linked up with a Bruce Springsteen tribute band when I was 16. And I finally was playing for like a drinking crowd on the Jersey shore. I was wearing like my little sundress and Glenn Stewart, who's the lead singer of the B street band, the hardest working band out there, by the way. They're still working.

He was like, what the hell are you doing? Don't stand like that at the microphone. And this is about these people escaping from what they're doing. He was tough with me, but it also shook me enough to understand the power of performing and how we are supposed to be vulnerable. It's great to be a good singer and it's great to like sound pretty when you sing, but to be able to do that and connect with people and have the balls to say something that makes that person in the audience not feel alone was the magic. So I had performed with them

for a couple of years and that gave me the courage to eventually move to Nashville. I was enrolled at Clemson. You went to Clemson? I did for a year and a half. Were you like a sorority chick or what? I was. I was. And I got in trouble all the time. I think like our first formal, I was put on probation.

like our first formal, I was put on probation. Like I had to get initiated with another school down the street from Clemson because, you know, I, I don't know that I was the perfect fit and the whole Southern Greek system. I'm still tight with some girls from that sorority and they actually were very supportive. I remember sitting everyone down and being like, I'm moving to Nashville and I'm going to pursue this career. And it was wild. I was

probably one of the only people in their lives who decided to take that path. Did your parents force you to go to college? No, not at all. I just didn't know that. It wasn't it really an option for me like it wasn't an option to go straight from the high school I went to which was a prep school all girls the uniform everything uh so the idea to just be like all right I'm headed straight to Nashville to pursue a career in music would have been pretty wild. But again, I should have given them more credit because they are my biggest cheerleaders now. And I had a few things that I had put in place to make that move to Nashville a little more reasonable. Like I had Tommy Mottola,

who was a big wig at Sony and married to Mariah Carey and all that stuff somehow I had him on my side and he was a liaison for me to move to Nashville and make introductions to producers and that whole music row system that I kind of was jettisoned into so how old are you here? I'm 19. Oh, fuck. And green, green as can be. I have an investor who's helping me make this move easier. He's a real estate developer from my area. And we're still tight, but that's an entirely different dynamic that we both didn't know our way around the music industry. His intentions for me were absolutely pristine. But when you see raw talent bankrolled, a lot of terrible shit can happen.

And it's not that anyone's necessarily insidious. Did you get fucked? A little bit, yeah. What happened? I think I was put into a situation where I really needed more development. Like I needed to figure out who I was, what I wanted to say. And instead, the first six months I'm there, 19, fresh off the boat, don't know who I am yet. I'm releasing a single with Universal and it's a cover of Kings of Leon's Use Somebody,

which was already at that point racing up the charts and not the first impression. If I could go back, I would ever give. But that was the formula. Like in country at the time, a lot of artists had had their breakout success by covering another contemporary song. And I had this other song that I still love it was bluesy and i

got to sing my ass off on it and it was ready to go but then the machine around me was afraid of releasing that original material and wanted to kind of do this take the safer path and it was a singles deal and it didn't do what it was supposed to do. And then after that, I was just kind of dead in the water. And from there they did. Yes. I mean, it was in a way a blessing because they could have just held on to me and then I would have been locked up and unable to do anything and proceed. And then there were a bunch of different iterations of independent labels that were structured around me. So then that's a mindfuck in its own right, because you're so aware in your early twenties, late teens,

that the success of these organizations are, is dependent on the performance of whatever single you're releasing to radio. So at this point, I'm already pointed in a direction where the art I'm making was really not something that I felt super attached to. And I never got to go through the process that I think every artist should go through where if you fail, you get to go back to the drawing board and look inward and put things out that are meaningful. I try now to just satisfy myself as much as I do the audience because I think that that leads to sustainability and you make timeless music. And you have to please yourself too when you're doing this. And I certainly wasn't at the time. Yeah. That's why I think Nashville and LA record labels are such full

of shit because it's like, it's like a singles industry. I mean, it's, it's two things. We grew up in an era when we were, how old are you, Maggie? I'm 32. Yeah. So we, in high school, old are you maggie i'm 32 yeah my age so we in high school that was the fall of the music industry so we're basically back in the 70s where the single industry was disco and now everyone was just finding bands for to pump into their fucking little wormhole and there no one's actually developing bands that's why so many anrs are fucking dropping because no one needs an A&R anymore. The shortest lifespan for a job is being an A&R. And there are a bunch in Nashville who've been able to stay relevant and actually curate really great albums for artists. But the majority are like, okay, what's working on TikTok?

Let's sign that artist they've never performed a live show uh it's just lazy to me and then also country radio was a big deterrent for me that made me kind of run from the format because first of all the disparity of women to men is like very well documented and anyone can see oh 40 top 40 has three women that's not that's so weird and you're not even catering to the demographic that's keeping this format alive so that was a problem then also the fact that you're expected as an artist to make an album of singles and each single could potentially live at radio for 64 weeks or more so you become this one-dimensional creature in the eyes of everyone who's discovering you because everything

you're doing is about the promotion of this one song when you know we're all multifaceted individuals and I think we deserve to be able to entertain that. And it's been one of the reasons that you and I met and, you know, playing Peach Fest and also on tour with Kelly Clarkson, but then doing stuff with Bob Weir. There's this sweet spot where when I finally made the music I wanted to, it was transcending genre because people can believe that you're having a good time. Like they can call bullshit on when you're doing what's authentic to you. Or it's the idea of fucking finally not worried about what, how other people are going to make you successful. It's what yourself is going to make yourself successful. Right. And what's your definition of success? A full dimensional artist, right? Right. And what's your definition of success?

A full dimensional artist, right? Right. And not like, hey, a hit would be great, but like, you better make sure that that's a song you love because you're going to sing that for the rest of your life. What's great to me is being able to make like album after album and do it with integrity with people that I love. You know how tight I am with my band. I know how tight you are with yours. Having that community, because it can get so lonely when you feel like your worth is all wrapped up into the performance of one song.

The validation can only come from how many people are buying that like i can't i can't commit to that kind of career for very long a couple of questions um yep how did the um okay 19 you've been getting your ass kissed forever about your fucking music when you're younger. And then some person tells you, all right, you're only going to play someone else's songs and then we're dropping you. How'd that make you feel? It was, the whole world was flipped upside down because I was big fish, little pond.

And then you moved to Nashville where everybody has some remarkable talent everybody the person who's making your coffee is probably like the best guitar player who's not getting the credit they deserve so I think just being in the surroundings of having people who are better than you was humbling which is also a valuable lesson. Does it make you competitive? Am I competitive? Yeah. In general, are you competitive?

Sure. Yeah. I'm driven, but I also think you have to leave space for other people to succeed because the world is a much more inspiring place when you do that. But I didn't really react to that rejection well. I think it took me a second to recover. left to struggle. But instead, there was another outfit assembled around me, a new team of promoters and people who were getting paid by my investor who is an individual that I have a great relationship with. So all my judgment was very clouded. I had to do right by those people who were getting a job from someone else who I felt like I was also draining financial resources from. So that awareness was a little suffocating. How much did you end up spending? I don't know. A lot. When you're 19, you just keep on just saying yes. And then you don't realize how big the bill is at the end of the day.

A shit ton of money. And also I think that because I was so young, it was supposed to be something that we decided upon mutually, but then everyone's trying to do what's in my best interest or what they think is in my best interest. So just hit the gas a little bit more. Let's put some more money in it. Let's do another

radio tour which is the most demeaning thing an artist can do by the way a country music radio tour as a woman tell me about it tell me about it tell me about it so like you're in a conference room singing your heart out and at the time i had this ballad out called mississippi's crying and but at that point i was still going by Margaret Durante and people are looking at their blackberries and getting sodas from the soda machine when you're like belting this note out so the soda machine's like

making these terrible noises fuck all this it's not and you know like some people would tell the promoters and i had regional promoters all over the country you know southeast and west coast who would they were all men for the most part and they would have to kind of give me a report afterwards and sometimes it would be like about the outfit you wore or the weight that you're at or like you you weren't and these were people who wanted to see me succeed by the way because they wanted to succeed and also i think they really did and didn't give a shit about me but uh it was like okay and sometimes it was

three or four stations a day i I remember going to one station in Arizona and flying to another station in California. And you're expected to perform and just ding, like turn the light on. Just like you're like, and I'm not a really like, I'm a happy person, but I'm not going to be saccharine and super sweet and like flirting with these program directors, which was an expectation. And a lot of times rewarded.

I would see. Hold on. Every time you started, you realized every time you started flirting, you got your way. I didn't get my way, but I would be reminded of other people who maybe were getting their way because of that kind of behavior. And how'd that make you feel at 19? Fucked up. Yeah. Like what? Just very lost.

Like, hold on. Like that's fucked up yeah it makes me like I'm almost get like emotional no it's mad it was it was weird and I

think it would have expedited my creative process if there wasn't so much value placed on that why do we why do we feel that these people if there wasn't so much value placed on that. Why do we feel that these people... This is the most bullshit thing about the music industry, is we wait for these type of people who have the lead to... Just because, not over music, but over how you treat somebody.

It's just... it's like cattle. Yeah, it is. And I would be very aware of like another artist coming into that studio later that day. And it would always lead to a dinner and lots of alcohol and, you know, sometimes program directors. and you know sometimes program directors and I'm gonna have to say this disclaimer that you obviously know I'm gonna say not all program directors not all men not like we know the we know the routine but like some I remember being at one dinner and this program director told me this terrible story about another female artist who is my friend and how he made her cry and he had this smile on his face about this story in making her cry because you know she had

advocated for herself and asked if like he was gonna play her single she was probably like all right enough bullshit are you gonna play my single or not? And after this long hang, he was like, no, it's just not that good of a song or whatever he said to her. And it was a weird moment because I just was like, what am I doing? Am I in the business of making music right now? Or am I a politician who's just trying to get this song heard? And sometimes the songs were chosen just solely based on the criteria of what's going to work at radio. I can't even imagine myself doing that right now. Oh, God.

Do you think that's why they reach out to younger people? Because we're more acceptable to just say yes to everything and just go with it? I think that everyone wants to keep their job. Everyone. And people want to keep their job and have it be easier. So if they have a willing participant or artist to kind of do what they want them to do, then they're going to take that Avenue.

And it might not be something that they maliciously like set out to do from the beginning, but it does happen that way where you're like, Oh, you're malleable. You're willing to change. Like you're a better candidate for thisalleable you're willing to change like you're a better candidate for this because it's just going to be easier to get this across the finish line what okay god fuck maggie this is insane so and i know this is happening but everyone it's like anything in this fucking culture we just we just look the other way when shit like this fucking happens. There's so much that people didn't know. And I think that's the thing.

Like I even still like radio tours have become a little bit more obsolete, especially with the pandemic, like traveling all over the country at that rate would be really reckless. But I think that, you know, when the Me Too movement came about, I had Marissa Moss from Rolling Stone reach out to me. And the first thing I could think of was just all my experiences on radio tour. But I didn't want that to be what I was known for. So Marissa is an amazing journalist and like, I love her.

And I love talking music with her, but at the time I declined because I was just like, I, this is not how I'm going to be known. I'm going to be known for my music, not for these shitheads who made me feel a certain way or devalued me as a human. Um, and you know I kind of like I even talked to her about that when we were doing an article for change the whole thing a couple years later and she's like hey this is exactly what this movement was not supposed to be it was not supposed to be. It was not supposed to pressure people into talking about it, but it wasn't even like a sexual abuse situation.

Although there were comments that, like if I heard today who I am now, I mean, they wouldn't even dare go there. Yeah, you'd fuck a motherfucker up, Maggie. I know you. Absolutely now, but I think it's that's what's painful to look back at is the fact that I gave them that wide berth to even feel comfortable to share stories about other people with me or say something about me or my music or even the the packaging in which I was delivering my music.

It pisses me off, and I feel the responsibility of that sometimes, which is not a fun place to be. But I think that's also what has made this such a learning process for everyone. And I think the pendulum has swung too far when it comes to that, too, where we all deserve a little grace because times were different. for everyone and I think the pendulum has swung too far when it comes to that too where a lot of like we all deserve a little grace because times were different and um that that's one of the weird nuances of that what were some of your reflection that makes it painful what were what were some of your insecurities as a kid? Like, was it hard for you to express yourself? Yes. Yeah.

I was always, like, I have always had a really tight group of friends, very close with my sisters, both of them. Even as different, I have two sisters, as the three of us are, I have two sisters as the three of us are. I do feel like I've always had those confidants that I can share everything about myself with. But yeah, there were, there were, there was an eagerness to please, I think. Your parents? No, my parents were pretty bad-ass. I think you'd love them.

As a kid. They were always an eagerness to please in general i and i still feel like i have some of that even in in dating wanting to be popular you know i wish i was more of a choir nerd i would have loved that but i was no not for me choir nerd like i i would have loved that shit and And when I went to Clemson, I finally was part of an acapella group and it was so fun. And I embraced that nerdy side of me because it's something I should have been doing with super focus.

What were you scared about being yourself? In your head, like looking in retrospect, why do you think you were scared to be yourself? Be this little nerdy girl in high school too cool for school i think a lot of the guys that i ran with um you know they were super athletes there were there were some egos that even now i'm like whoa that was a crazy thing to be around as a teenager um super being too cool for school I think even though I was super I've always been super goofy and like funny I about what people think about me and I know

that sounds like ridiculous to say because of course we all care about what people think and that's why we make art because we want people to enjoy it but I think more from just like personality standpoint like being a weirdo is okay. Yeah. And it's also living, you know, we're 30 now. Right. Yeah. Who cares? Exactly. And I've, I've seen, I've seen it all. And I've been able to actually really make opinions about the way I see the world based on experience. And I just, I just needed more of

it. I was a late bloomer a little bit when it comes to being the free spirit that I am now. And, uh, give me some examples. I feel like, so we'll just having a podcast and being on stage and, you know, like cut all my hair off and like get a tattoo, like the acts of liberation that I needed to do. And this is all early on, just from an image standpoint. And then I started going by Maggie Rose

when I was in my mid twenties. And I think that was like me giving myself permission and also saying to everybody, like, here's a line in the sand. I'm going to start doing things with intention and thinking about like the big picture and what that all means. Like what's my brand? I hate that word, but like allowing for other people to see themselves in me and what I'm doing, as opposed to trying to recreate what's already working.

Did you go and keep going? Sorry. sorry well i'm trying to think of other examples but you know i think my husband has been a huge facilitator in me getting out of my shell and educating me about music that i really love and it's expanded my mind and just the the fun shit about being an adult and being a free thinker and even speaking to political happenings and cultural things going on that might be dissenting from opinions of what I would have been told to avoid when I was more in that music row machine. Like, don't talk about gay rights. Fuck that.

I'm going to talk about that. And don't talk about what's going on in the world with racial tensions. Like, absolutely not. That's something that, as a human, I feel an obligation to address and to mitigate these problems. mitigate these problems. So they seem like small things, but that's, that's just propels me forward to be a more whole person that is just like uniquely what I have to offer. Yeah. And you know, I want to go deeper in this idea of intimacy. So is it harder for you to be intimate with say your husband or your parents or your sisters versus the public?

No. Really? No, I don't think it is. I don't think it is. I think with Austin, we work together. We're sharing in everything. Music is something, the music that I put out belongs to both of us. So that forces an intimacy. I think sometimes with

like my older sister, because she's a mother of four and there's just like a different lifestyle that we have, it can be hard for me to like these are just maybe not things that she's super interested in although she's interested in me as a person yeah so i feel like my identity is so wrapped up in my music that that can be the inhibitor for our intimacy sometimes is that like i want you to be as into this as i am but that's asking too much of someone who's not yeah musician you know and then so i guess i just contradicted my me saying no to that question but there are people that i've found out there who are like my forever family that I would have never found without music. And they know me really well. And, you know, they're not fans anymore. They started out as fans,

but they've been a mirror for me in so many ways. And like, I owe that to the fact that they're resonating with honest pieces of work that I've put out and that they've fully accepted that. So it feels like them embracing your children, you know, and I think that creates a bond. So it's not with just the public. I don't want to be like an open book sharing everything on Instagram or social is about my life. But there are people that I would have never connected with without music with whom I can be fully transparent. Did you grow up in a well-off family?

I did. I did. So with that idea, do you think you put success on a pedestal because that's all you know? I do. And I think that there's a double-edged side to it. Yeah, is that healthy? It's a double-edged sword because success is so prevalent around me. Like as I talked to you, I'm up in Maryland and I've been here with my family since Christmas because I miss my family, but it is definitely a way of life that is high pressure. High expectations are set for everybody. Every single one of my friends from childhood, they're working their asses off to maintain a certain lifestyle.

And perhaps that's what I miss the people, not the place, you know? And that's what makes my little East Nashville community such a haven for me because I think my hierarchy is really based on what people's contributions are from an artistic standpoint in our community. And I think that that's how it's evaluated in East Nashville, too. There's not a lot of talk about. Explain that. I don't really know who's got the biggest house in East Nashville. But I know that when we all run into each other at the same bar,

there's like this camaraderie there and there's a mutual respect for like, you know, Nikki Bloom when I see her around there and Margo Price and Joshua Headley. Like there's like, I have no idea what everyone's making. I shouldn't, it shouldn't be something that's even on our minds when we're making music. But I do think that there is a financial pressure that exists here that I've become very aware of when I'm around. LA is totally like that. There's parts of Nashville that are very much like that. I's so many. I mean, there's parts of Nashville that are very much like that.

I think every city, big city has that, right? I mean, it's like competitiveness that makes people like, it's like that idea. Like, why do you need $5 billion? Or why do you have to work for $5 billion to like... Well, and how much is too much? Yeah, exactly. I don't think like ambition is great and i don't think if you are wealthy that you're like a rich brat or whatever and i

know some of the most generous people who have a lot and give a lot so like this is, this is a network that I very much love, but it's weird that what it does to your head when all of a sudden this awareness reappears that I don't feel very much when I'm back in Nashville. You know? Yeah. And I totally agree with you. It's the same thing with you at 19 years old when you finally said, fuck this. All these guys are just, you know, flirting with me and don't give a fuck about my art. They just care about me as another stamp in their portfolio to try to get the next hit. And like, that's not development. That's not friendship. That's not growth.

Development feels like such a lost art in in the music industry now like i feel like labels used to get behind an artist cultivate them figure out who they are let them make a record now it's like oh you've got some big numbers on this platform let's just release a single and throw you, feed you to the wolves. Like you haven't had any chances to develop your live show or so. I mean, we're yielding a bunch of singles, but like,

where's the next great artist is the next superstar. Like, I don't know, Michael Jackson problematic to some, but like, he was dope yeah yeah he was dope and i i uh bury the man not the music is my motto but i think these well-rounded like triple threats are becoming more few and far between because and's our fault. It's everyone's fault.

Like it's not just the labels, it's the consumer. It's like Spotify and all the DSPs, like not getting behind a bigger picture because people don't have the time. People are afraid. When was the first time you really felt sadness? First time ever? Yeah. Or throughout the career? No, no. First time ever. When like, have you, did you, was it later in life where you first felt depression or sadness knew existed or

did you know it existed when you were a kid? I didn't really know that it existed and I didn't have a lot of empathy when I was a kid, when I was a teenager for depression. I didn't understand it. Like I just be happy. Like it's a great day. And it's so crazy how the tables have turned because anxiety is real. It is so real. And I think that negative thinking can become addictive. real and I think that negative thinking can become addictive I feel like our uh addiction to our phones and seeing everyone's highlights on their feeds of what's going on oh I got this tour and blah blah blah whatever like that just exacerbates it and I think it's been like probably the last couple years that I've really felt compassion for people who just can't, can't see the bright side of things. And I think that of course there's like chemical, uh, imbalances for some people and there's real trauma that they can't get over.

We all have trauma where some people are just afraid to look. vulnerable and a result of looking inward is I've also maybe kicked up some dust off things that I've dealt with or been exposed to that's making me realize like, okay, this is stuff that I need to maybe reorganize or look at and manage. When was the first time you felt depression? The first time that I identified it as that was yeah over over this pandemic shut the fuck up you've never been depressed since then i i have but i didn't know what it was oh another time was after right before i made changed the whole thing. I had like kind of a meltdown. I was drinking too much. There was like some ego that I was dealing with. And it was when my label at the time,

RPM, had finally shut down because we were just like open faucet funding into the success of this song that I really didn't even like in the first place. I don't even want to say what the title is. Cause just, I felt like what the hell. Isn't it weird how that happens? The label shut down. And then I, I just, it was like a self-sabotage kind of thing.

And I had gotten out of a three and a half year relationship. And I'd also been with this label for about the same amount of time. And I just felt like, what do I do now? Who am I? If I'm not signed to this label, then like, I don't know who I am. I'm not a performer. And luckily, you know, I had my drummer, Sarah Tomek, who's been with me forever, very much in my life and giving me a tough love right back. And I met Austin. And I'm not saying that these two people are my salvation, but they certainly

hung in there. And I moved out of the apartment I was in into like this little shoebox apartment. For some reason, that day, I was like,, trying to get these boxes packed up and move from a big apartment consolidated into like this little place. I got a check in the mail for all the back paid royalties that I had just registered for that summer before it arrived on the day that I moved. So I was like, like okay this is something telling me to not like pack my shit and go home and Austin's presence in my life

I got a publishing deal I started writing without any intentions of putting things out to radio like let's just try and write and see what happens and maybe I can help another artist find their voice and find my own I was about 25 at this time and And that was, that was like not hitting rock bottom because I feel like I had a bunch of

safety nets if needed in the form of people and, um, just support. But it was weird. It was like a higher power saying like, don't,. This is not the time. There's much more that remains to be seen. review this in hindsight that that's exactly what I needed. I needed to have the shit scared out of me. I needed to be completely on my own and then see what came out. And I like dyed my hair green. Let's go. Let's fucking go.

There we go. There she is. She back, baby. Sorry, I turned up the applauding too loud. No, but it's so fucking funny. It's experimental. When we're depressed, we forget that the sun's going to come back up tomorrow.

And we forget that we're going to have new chapters in our life. Look at Clemson Maggie versus Maggie now. I feel like Clemson Maggie would have been like judgmental of me now if we met, but I also feel for her so much because the noise that I was bombarded with was deafening. Like how could I ever have heard my own voice with everything that was going on around me, all the powerful people around me who, again, wanted to see me succeed, but on what terms? Is it the idea of keeping up with the Joneses? That's definitely part of it.

And I think it goes back to the eagerness to please. Like, I don't know that I was really getting after it to please myself as much as I was like, well, this needs to work because all these people have taken the time and the risk to get behind me and see this through. So I was, my own desires were an afterthought. So you think about others before you think about yourself? Yes, sometimes. How hard is that? Now I try and do it in more of a compassionate way because I'm worried about my band during this time.

So that's how I think about others. But when it comes to art and what we're doing and what I have to put out there, I've learned my lesson that at the end of the day, I need to be able to look at what I've done and be proud of it myself because the ownership is with me. Yeah, isn't it amazing how life does that?

When you're at your lowest, something happens and then from there you get your man love and you get your authenticity back. It's just like, we forget that we don't have to do this alone. Even if fucking, we think we're alone in our heads through this depression. Like,

it's like, Oh God, I'm alone in this. I know you're not, you got Austin, you got your crew, you got your songs. Like we,

we self sabotage so much when we're depressed. And like, I think that's the hardest part about depression is understanding that we don't, it's just a chemical imbalance right now. And you're just trying to understand the rewiring of your brain because if let's say you got famous at 14 or whenever you wanted to get famous when you're fucking you know being a badass and fucking maryland with nick mcdaniel's dude i want to know about nick talk about that we'll talk about that too but um you know i think you'd be a completely different person absolutely oh my god i'd probably be on the disney channel or something right now you'd be like one of those Disney or the Mickey mouse. Be like coming down from my years on the Disney channel and hanging out with Macaulay Culkin somewhere or something. I don't know.

Smoking cigs at a. Yeah. It is halftime at the end. The fresco interview. He's talking shit about the game. He's got a weird fucking name. It's Sports with Dolove. What up, Andy?

It's your boy, Dolove. Wanted to wish you a happy birthday, dude. I fucking love you. I hope you have an amazing birthday. All the birthday cake. All the love. All the drugs. Fucking 33.

We're getting old, bro. It's getting real out here. COVID ain't going away. Fucking live music ain't coming back. It's only going downhill. I think maybe listen to your dad. It's time to change your career, man. Go fully on board with the OnlyFans and showing your dick off full time.

Because we all know you love to show your Rolex. Girls love it, man. Yeah. Time to make a change, man. Change your pace, bro. Anyways, happy birthday. West side. We don't realize the trauma we are putting ourselves through when we're going

through the fucking rat race. This is one thing I hate about this music industry is like, you don't realize all the depression comes when things slow down. You know, you don't have time to fucking look back in retrospect. So you have to think about the next gig or think about the next fucking single or think about the next performance. And overworking doesn't help.

It just distracts. That's why they have some of these younger artists running at that pace, because then you don't have time to look around and reflect and just wonder, like, wait, what is the end goal here? And that was definitely part of it I think like in those years where it was just like four radio tours back to back yeah I kick myself because I'm like man I should have just walked away from that approach and started making music the way I wanted to like that wasn't an option there was a very like obvious goal that everyone was desperately trying to reach and I was made so aware of that and evaluated every day and um it didn't give me time to reflect and become an artist worth a shit because like what songs could I even have been writing that would have been any good at that point?

This airport has inspired me. No. Just sad, sad songs. That's all. I mean, Jesus. Looking back, were all your songs sad back then? They weren't. And I, I don't, like I listened to them and the happy message of a lot of them kind of rings hollow. Uh, I didn't really,

I became a writer like when I was really independent, when I became fully independent at that point that we were talking about when I was 25, like I was 25 like I was writing every day I was excited to write and it was because I didn't have something I was writing for I was just writing to like have that release and see what was in there and when you have nothing to lose like you can write with this abandon that I had never experienced. So the songs during that time are forgetful to me, really. I picked a lot of really great songs.

I knew how to identify a song that other people had written that really clicked with me. a song that other people had written that really clicked with me. And I think that at least I had that outlet with songs like Better and Put Yourself in My Blues. And these are people and writers that I admire. But it was nothing like when I got to release a song that I really loved that I had written, which didn't come until later. Yeah. You know, it's important, but why do, why do we need, why do we need

hardship to understand who we are? I really wish we weren't built that way. Me too. That's a human flaw. I want to write a strongly worded letter to whoever made us because it's such a necessary process. Yeah. Because if you think about, yeah, like if you didn't have to deal with that,

if you didn't have to deal with that, you'd be a completely different, I don't think we would have met. Absolutely not. No, we definitely would have. I would have never. No, I wouldn't have met Austin. And I wouldn't't like the funny thing is i was actively not trying to date someone and austin was like oh nope nope this is happening and he had his ways he tells everyone that it was like the best game he's ever played before and i mean it had to have been because we fell in love very quickly. And he also, and he still does this, and this is why we work so well together. He, and it sounds so Pollyanna, but he lets me be exactly who I am.

And I don't want to throw my relationship before him under the bus, but that wasn't the case. And if I had something good going for me, he would congratulate me earlier in the day. But then I knew a fight was coming later because there was this fear of success. I think from him, whereas Austin's helped me. He's brought me to the water to visualize the success and the,

the lack of limitations of what that can mean. And that's why, you know, I don't know why I'm in the jam scene right now. I never, I never thought that out. Same here, dude. But I think what it is is the environment and the fan base in that scene it has nothing to do it has a lot to do with the sonics of it but it has to do

with the inclusivity of it and the music right and like you and I we've gotten to hang a couple times in person but like it's been this pandemic where we've been reaching out to each other because you and I know that isolation is the enemy of so many of our artists, friends who have fallen to depression.

Like I've, I've lost people over this time who have died from alcoholism and reaching out to each other is what the jam scene is all about and that community so is it not like that in the country community um i think i have like a really tight network of women in the country community and like the brothers osborne they are they are real ones they're they're real so awesome and there's a lot like there's a lot of uh male artists that i respect but i i'm not present in that like physically present in that community a lot like you know tim mcgraw was awesome he brought me out on tour and um there's a lot of people that

have been welcoming to me but i have no problem hitting up like eric krasnow on instagram just because i love what he's doing and he hits me right back we're sharing music we're making playlists and exchanging them together and i think like there's no shame in the game of just reaching out to people now where maybe i should have been a little more outgoing before. But I have a tight group of women in country music. But we all bonded over the fact that none of us were getting the attention we deserved. So we got together to bitch about it. And that's what made us all friends. Let's fucking go.

I got to meet this crew. This crew sounds badass as fuck. Have fun. It's definitely like a slam wine and talk shit kind of group, but we're also trying to boost each other up. And that's the podcast that I started is sleep a songbird with all women guests. And like I had Jen Hartswick on today who bad bitch. I love her. I listened to your podcast with her in preparation for it.

And I just love hearing women speak the way she does. She's just like the instrument she plays, where she's loud and bombastic and irreverent. And that's interesting to me. And I don't think country's showcasing that side of women. Yeah. Either, so. Well, I don't think popular music lets you.

No, no. Well, I don't think popular music lets you. No, no. I mean, you're supposed to be still polite in country and you're supposed to not speak to certain hot button topics. And I just couldn't do that. You think that's why Sturgill and those guys kind of get shit? Yes, they do. Like Tyler Childers and Sturgill, Margo.

It goes on. Nikki Lane, Elizabeth Cook. I mean, there's all these people who are so country because country used to be, and I'm saying used to be, I'm just talking country radio because like Leslie Fram, if you know who she is at CMT, she's started this movement called Change the Conversation where all she talks about is like, why aren't we representing these people? Why aren't we representing people from these communities and black people and gay people? Like, what are we doing? And it's called change the conversation because

she thinks that it's such a tired topic like that should be the last thing we're talking about yet here all these people are all those artists i just mentioned with huge fan bases and they can't get arrested at country radio yeah like serious xm might play them on Outlaw Country, but this is a small cross-section of a genre that should be about truth and about being an outlaw, making people feel uncomfortable with the ideas and the truth that they're putting in their music. So yeah, Sturgill was busking outside of the CMA Awards a couple of years ago. And no one even knew that it was him. He's just standing with his guitar case open, downtown Nashville, trying to get a few dollars. And it's outside one of the biggest venues or celebrations for country music award ceremonies. And here is the man himself who's not getting second looks

as people go into the show. Do you think you found friendship and companionship through quarantine more than you ever did living on the road with just doing your thing? Yes, I do. But it's also been really tough with my band. I didn't realize how much I depend on that community with my band

to keep me working. There's the safety that you have with people that you collaborate with often because they kind of keep you within this frame of ideas and I'm not an introvert and that's really

hurt and I've also been sick with worry over like are we going to all be on the road together again and am I gonna have that again and are they okay like some of the best musicians they deserve to be compensated and I can't fix it there's nothing I can do no matter how many ideas I come up with for like this virtual concert or this project like it's nothing like what sustains them when we're on the road touring. So that's been tough. And it's, you know, I feel like there's times where I felt really alone and abandoned.

And I think if they knew that I felt that way, it would be terrible, but everyone's kind of trying to protect their own we're in survival mode yeah i have that with my band you know they yeah you know i'm doing all these different things my talk show just got picked up and i know you told me that's so awesome yeah thanks dude so good at that thank you so it's like um but like you know i i when i you know it's like i i'm doing what i can to keep the band around, but it's also, I always, I think about like, oh, do they think I'm just like abandoning them for this? I'm like,

no, this is just trying to figure out ways to keep the train running. So, cause this thing's going to go away, hopefully this fucking quarantine thing. And we just have to stick it out. But it's like that. It's like the same idea with depression. don't see the future we just see the sadness and the pain we're feeling right now especially with anxiety like you know like i get so anxious like especially like this last week like oh my god so anxious and i wake up and I'm not anxious anymore. I'm like, why do I put so much pressure on anxiety? Why did I stay awake from 2.30 to 6 a.m. thinking about something that I'm laughing about now? Like the light of day and just trusting each other

and protecting each other is something that we have to keep doing. And I think it made me real. I took an Enneagram test finally, because I've just been, I don't know why. It's a personality test. You should do it. So I'm a two and a three, and those are givers and achievers. And I was like, well, I didn't need a test to do that. Let's go, Maggie. I like you. You bet. But it was like, you should definitely take it.

And I realized like, that's why, like these two things have been taken from me. Like I like to nurture. I like to provide. I like to be the one keeping the, like the nucleus, keeping the crew together. I can't do that. It's not because I'm like, not good at doing that. It's just because this is an environment all of a sudden where that's just not something that's feasible. So that triggered your depression? It did. It did. And I wish I had taken that test sooner because I'm like, well, this is the core

of my being. And I'm in an environment that completely not only does it not facilitate that but it is it's robbed me of like these two things that give me life and make me want to get out of bed in the morning is like being the the matriarch of this this family because we call each other our family band. Austin and I are married. Sarah, my drummer, and brother Love are married. Alex, my guitar player, and Kim, who's their manager, are

seriously dating. Kyle Wang-Allman, we call him because he looks like Dwayne Allman. Kay Felicia Keys are dating. It's like incestous fuck over there dog absolutely absolutely oh my god I mean nervous like what a shit like what if they like their relationships break up I'm like that's the one saves me on hotel rooms I know let's go let's go I'm gonna clap to that too let's go save that

money girl save that money yeah I'm like okay okay, good. Everyone, night-night. Go to your respective rooms. Go to your wives and husbands. No, it's so fucking... Do you think change makes depression? When we have to change? Change is an agitator. So it'll do all sorts of things. I think collectively we're all going through change and that's why you're seeing people act fucking mental right now. But a lot of people have been wanting change for a long time and deserving of change. Like our brothers and sisters of color have been dealing with this

and it's been stagnant. So like change to me is necessary and there's always going to be someone who's benefiting from that and there's always going to be someone who's going to have to compromise uh this change has been so crazy like as far as gratitude goes like i'm never going to complain about being exhausted and having a show at the end of the run. Yeah. Like I'm, I'm going to be Tina Turner on that stage with all the energy I can muster up even when I used to be like, I need to go home cause I'm about to die.

It's the little thing. But I think we have to recalibrate and change doesn't necessarily set in at the same rate for your fellow man so i think just having patience with that like when some people are ready to go um the person next to you might not be but like i saw this quote stevie wonder saying that this quote Stevie Wonder saying that music is to awake the minds of men and that's our job is to like compassionately lead people to what you're trying to say if you really believe in what you're saying and you really believe in the change you're trying to make what about the change in yourself like when did you start believing that?

I think that same compassion needs to be directed at oneself too. And that's one of the hardest things. I think everyone's way too hard. Not everyone, but I can be really hard on myself. And then that's, that's where I get into the self-sabotage cycle when i feel like imposter syndrome is starting to bubble up and like who the hell am i what am i doing like why does anyone want to hear this new record or why would i begin a new project i just finished this last one and it didn't do what i wanted it to do like getting into that self talk is is not helpful but it's inevitable and just kind of knowing when to be like okay bitchy version of self just be quiet and let's see

this through and let's sleep through the night like you're talking about and wait to see what it's like when the sun comes out tomorrow we're so much harder on ourselves versus everyone else. We give so much, everyone else so many different times and takes and, but for us, if we fuck up once or we think about it forever. Absolutely. Why? Why do we do that to ourselves? I don't know. When you know the answer, you need to let me know though, i mean god i'm i'm do we just i'll let it linger do we put pressure on ourselves to be you know it's like it's it we'll call it ego some ego is good some ego is not but like the idea of pressure what you know why do we put more pressure on ourselves versus we put pressure on our uh on our husbands or wives or managers or bandmates?

Because I think as performers, we've seen what wonderful things can come out of situations where we're under pressure. Our performances, shows, there's this euphoria that we feel when we did this with all these things going on and the pressure that we're sustaining um so maybe we are craving that same result like if we apply the pressure to ourselves in the situation where we're doing perfectly fine work maybe something remarkable will come out again, like it has in the past when we've been under equally high pressure situations. And I think like one thing about

art is that it will never be fully perfect. And we all know that but yeah we have to release it at some point we have to step away from the painting and let that be the last brushstroke and that can be like postpartum like feeling when you're finally releasing it into the world but i think giving yourself the grace to just be like, all right, I did this with all the wisdom that I could possibly accrue right now at this point in my life. And I might look back on this 10 years from now and be like, I would have done that differently. But like, that's what makes it so like, that's what makes it feel so wonderful to release is just that faith in yourself that this is what I have to offer at this point. And I did it

with the best intentions I could. And like, I put as much pressure on myself as I could, but make sure you're still enjoying the process where you're not self-flagellating. Like, I had no fun. I was just being a dick to myself the entire time I was making that record. Like, don't waste, don't squander the process by doing that or and you know you could even ask even not even on your passions in life don't fucking take it don't take life for granted you know don't right don't suppress don't do all the things we just talked god i could talk to you for fucking hours man you are you are a bad bitch dude you are honestly i'm so excited honestly yeah and like we just skim the surface.

Like, you better just keep going with this podcast, FYI. Even when you're on tour. Even when this shit's done, you better keep going. I will. This is important. I think it's like that creative process where you start. You're like, this is really cool. And you get into it.

You're like, who am I? Yeah. This sucks. No one's going to give a shit about this. Oh, wait, they just shared my podcast. Oh my gosh. Consistency is key. It's like that full circle thing where you just have to see it through.

And I mean, I've just put my second episode out today, but I have a bunch in the can. And it's like, this is going to be a long process where I just have to believe in myself, believe in my guests and stick with it. And I think that's like a big metaphor for what we're doing with our music and our outreach to people. Yeah. And, you know, like going back to earlier in our conversation about the stuff that you had to deal with as a fucking young woman musician, like i bet a lot of people are afraid to talk about that stuff and you are gonna be the mother theresa of this motherfucking scene so let's go get it far from it i bet you don't talk about not theresa like that i bet mother theresa smoked some weed and you know fucked a couple dudes and did the whole hippie thing and but thanks for being on the show maggie i know you. I know you're doing your thing

and doing busy things. I just want to, I got one last question for you until we do, because we're doing this again, FYI. I would love to. Anytime. I needed this.

What do you want to be remembered by, Maggie Rose? I want to be remembered for authenticity, for persistence, for the themes in my music. I want them to be timeless. I think it's about being a good person and connecting. And it's not like something you're going to hear decades from now and not know what I'm talking about. It's not like something you're going to hear decades from now and not know what I'm talking about. I want those to be themes that are very prevalent in whatever society, whenever it gets to hear them. And I hope that those are things that are upheld and someone who brings joy to people and who did it their way.

So, I mean, so far, so so good i'm just getting started but um i also want to like make people have fun and give people permission to be themselves by doing that myself yeah it's so funny how we when we finally let go of the shit that haunted us in the past we could finally be ourselves today. And I'm glad you're fucking doing it. It's pretty wild. Yeah. Well, you certainly are too, my friend.

Well, you know, I'm just, you know, we're all in this together. You know, I'm just as confused as you are, Maggie. Don't worry. I know. We can be confused together. Well, thanks for being part of the show. Hey, give your podcast a plug so everyone knows where to find it and what it's called and so people know that Maggie Rose

is now the next Howard Stern of the community. It's called Salute the Songbird and it's all women guests or of the female perspective. And it's women who are musicians, who are hugely behind the scenes and orchestrating wonderful music that we love and studio musicians as well and songwriters.

And it's been really awesome to do during the quarantine because it's made me a better musician. It's also made me very empathic and realizing that we've all been through similar bullshit and uh i've enjoyed it i think people like it's wherever you can find your podcast and putting a new record out this year finally that i did down in the muscle shoals alabama at fame studios i might have heard that. It's so fucking good, dude. Thank you. I told you that, right? I'm so excited.

Yes, you did. Oh my, Maggie. I think this is it. I'm excited. It's just you. It's original and it feels like it's coming from your voice, which is nice to hear. It's a soul record and it's definitely

got that and it's so fun to make. I've been sitting on it because last year was such a crazy time and this album is a little bit more celebratory in its tone and yeah i think that's what people need let's have some fun and yeah fuck yeah and get back to it i guess we could announce this too me and maggie are doing a single together yes we are i was waiting for you to say something. You know what time it is. I had to say at the end. But yeah, people will know.

People will know once we get in mixes. You'll know. Dude, you are so fucking good. Yeah, I'm just so thankful that we get to work in whatever space we can because I am truly a fan of you and I am truly, I got your back. So anytime you're feeling low. You fucking hit me up. Okay.

Likewise. Thank you Andy. I'll be like your side dude. Or whatever. Austin's going to be pissed. I'll be your side chick. I'll be your wing woman too. Let's find Andy.

Find Andy some love. I want to. I want this talk show with Ari Fink to happen. Let's get it. All right. We'll do it. Maggie. Thanks for being on the show. And I can't wait for people to hear what we're up to happen. Let's get it. All right. We'll do it. Maggie, thanks for being on the show.

And I can't wait for people to hear what we're up to. So it'll be nice. Love you, man. Thank you. And there we have it. We got a special guest. Another Denver band. Would it be Denver? Yeah, Denver, Mountains, Netherlands, Denver.

We got Cody Wells from the Magic Beans. What's up, bud? how's it going andy good to see you man you got my doppelganger in the band i do baby fro baby fro how did how did you meet all those guys i actually met those guys in netherland um i was leaving a band and they were needing a drummer and it just actually worked out really well um and yeah just met them up there jamming and hanging out. Is it hard? Like you're at, you're at a level in your career where it's, it's like, you're not at the big venues yet and you're, but you're not at the small ones.

So that must be kind of hard to do this through the year. Like you're probably, was probably tripping out a little bit throughout this quarantine. Yeah. I mean, watching venues close all around the country that we love, that we play, you know, um,

that was really tough to see. And also just, yeah. You know, doing shows that were like big enough to like make some money, you know, but like, then there was also shows where it's like not even

worth doing yeah and you got to do it because you got to keep the band morale gotta do it we did do the drive-in this year which was big yeah that was big i saw that that was at the four collins yeah it was on the four collins we were in good we're on good morning america what my aunt called me she was just like we were just up there because we were like one of the first people in the country to do the drive-in. Were you scared at first? I mean, we weren't on Good Morning America. They just showed. No, were you scared to be the first band to say yes to a show?

It felt weird. It felt weird. It was really cool to see everyone so happy to be together, but then also like, oh boy, are we doing the right thing? Are we having a super spreader event? But I felt like people were pretty, were pretty respectful. Yeah. I mean like when you, you know,

in a community like Colorado, I mean where music is like one of the most important things, you know, I feel like people would be respectful with mass, not, you know, try to fuck it up for everyone else, you know?

Yeah, no, definitely. So tell me about Colorado. Like your, your dad was what? leftover salmon yeah my pops was the original drummer of leftover like 989 to 93 so you grew up in netherland i grew up in netherland yeah what tell me about like what was it like having a dad always on the road um it was you know my dad by the time i was like

old enough to remember my dad was playing in like all these crazy Zydeco bands and stuff like that. But it was cool. It was good. I mean, he would drag me along to the Crawfish Boils. They're all around Colorado and just drag me along to his gigs. And he tells me I'd be kicking bass drum at Soundcheck for Salmon when I was really little. So it was just kind of always a normal thing to me to see that.

Was Vince Herman your Colonel Bruce? Vince Herman was 100% my Colonel Bruce. Yeah, tell me about that. He's like a cosmic being. I would definitely put him in the same realm as Colonel Bruce or Wavy Gravy. He would do things all around Nederland. On Christmas time, he'd have these crazy parades where he'd come and just sing

like Rudolph the Pepperoni Reindeer at all the different, like different stores in town who go into the cop shop and do like caroling with like, you know, 10 people wearing crazy costumes, sleeping bags and tinfoil hats and shit.

What did he teach you about life? Vince, he taught me to, you know, just like watch him, just like take things comically and kind of like, you know, always follow your dreams. He has a story about being like working at Alfalfa's with seafood. And then one day he was like, am I going to? His boss was like, either you need to figure out whether you want to do seafood or you want to do music. And he was like, oh, thanks to figure out whether you want to do seafood or you want to do music. And he was like, Oh,

thanks for making that choice so easy for me. And he just followed his dreams and watching someone. He lived in Nederland for a long time and like be able to accomplish his dreams and just be such a star without acting like a star. Yeah. That's the most, the ego. Yeah.

There's no ego list. Yeah. And he's just like a cosmic being, man. And he's just done so many for, so much things for so many musicians. Like my career, like Elephant Revival, even like Yonder, those guys. Like Vince came in and was like,

this band is the shit. Check them out. They're cool. And just not even saying that, just by like showing up and playing with them and helping them, you you know vouch for their for their band did he teach you about hardships in the band yeah yeah for sure i mean i you know i would i really got to know vince when he was doing like a lot of uh american taxi stuff and

he would like just come home from the from the road and I would just see him like beat up, you know, and I'm like come over to his house and be like, no, the liver's on a vacation right now. That's going to be me when I'm fucking Vince's age. Shoo away, kids. Frasco's tired. I'll tell you a story about many moons ago. What about, okay, so but like all serious, like what did you learn about being around

uh a band your whole life that um you know we always talk about the good things but like what did you learn that was bad that you could improve on with your band going up i mean definitely you know like keeping your home relationship strong a lot of musicians i know especially the older ones have been married like three or four times, you know, and that's always been like a scary thing of just like, hey, like if you don't hold on to the things that are special at home, then they will go away, you know?

Yeah, I totally hear that. And drugs. Was that like that with your family? I mean, yeah. I mean, my parents definitely split up. My dad was a road musician for 20 years, you know, and I think it definitely played a hard, hard role, um, on my family for sure. But, uh, did you resent him at all? No, I never really resented. There was definitely some things that I like, you know, he definitely wasn't the most faithful to my mom

or whatever, but that just taught me. Sometimes you learn from your parents what you're supposed to do. And sometimes you learn from your parents, what you're not supposed to do. Yeah. You know? And so that just kind of like instilled in my head, like, Hey,

don't make those same mistakes. Same thing with drugs too. I mean, you see a lot of people in bands just like get to this point where they're just thinking they're rock stars and that the party is more than the music in your job yeah and you know seeing people just break down and seeing people you know suffer with that and then and then also seeing them rise up and and from that and become a better person do you feel you write the best music when you're self-sabotaging yourself i don't know man there's definitely in your head not like yeah yeah

no definitely for sure yeah you know sometimes like driving home after partying all night i'll have some song in my head or something like regretful tune i'm like that too bro i write most of my songs when i'm on a fucking bender and I'm coming down. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's not, you know, some of my favorite songs aren't about sunshine and rainbows. Yeah. I mean, I think everyone's favorite songs are sometimes not all about the happiness that life is. And that's, and that's what I wanted to bring you on the show because you've had so many experiences. I mean, Colorado has been such a big part of the community, a music community since you were born. How old are you, Cody?

I'm 32. Yeah. So you grew, this is when it started flourishing in Colorado, right? Yeah. I mean, it seems like it's gone in waves. You know, there's definitely been huge, different waves of like, you know, like leftover salmon and then like yonder and string cheese and, and those waves. And then, but then like, I think in the and then like yonder and string cheese and and those waves and then but then like i think in the past like 10 15 years denver has just blown up and it's like the mag you can see anybody any night here you know and i get to we constantly get to play music with people that are heroes just at venues like Cervantes or what do you have any stories about that like maybe playing with your heroes without knowing or yes oh man okay so Vince's event story

so when I was 15 I was like a recipient of kids who couldn't afford drum lessons through the Mark Van Foundation Mark Van's their banjo player that passed away and I got to play I opened the show with this like band of a bunch of older dudes we were playing a bunch of Danny Barnes songs I didn't even know who he was I was just so naive to this so this whole set of music I was covering and then Vince is on stage later on tonight and he's just throwing people on stage you go play this you go play that and he's like you go play the drums right now and I'm like okay and to me I'm just playing there's some older dudes that I know and then there's just some old dudes that look like old dudes on stage and i realized afterwards that i played with like ge smith from like saturday

night live sound director and then this guy uh shep who played with ray charles for like 15 years and that was his last show he died after that show so i got to play like his last show with him or just like you know sitting with a song and it was just like stuff like that where i'm like so grateful to vince and so grateful to opportunities of the older musicians that like go and like what after they've like made a bunch of money and they've played with everybody and they've had all the like success like what else is there to do but pass on that knowledge and like the chance for you to like for a younger musician to come up and shine and pass on what they know you know so with that knowledge like what are you guys doing magic beans to like you know get through the storm to get through the storm we've just we've been we

wrote a a whole album at the beginning of quarantine which has been really awesome it's like a double disc album it's called slice of life, I think it'll come out in a couple of weeks and we just like concentrated on that, you know, and then also just being present on the internet during like the whole COVID thing, you know, and just like making sure that you're not like lost at the wayside and people still remember who you are putting out content and putting out you know you got to like adapt to what's going on you know and and i think also just like trying to be inclusive with other with other artists in in the area you know and like stay connected to our friends and stay connected um and like you know bring people to sit in or like doing things like that to help still have a sense of musical community around.

Is community important to you? Community is so important to me. In all aspects of life? In all aspects of life. Especially where I live now, Nederland is just the strongest community ever. I'd go to the sandwich shop and I'd forget my wallet, and then Ross is like, yeah, no problem.

That's tight. And there's also different little music community things, sandwich shop and I forget my wallet and then Ross is like yeah no problem you just you know and and there's also different like little music community things like Mountain Star Studio where we shot our uh shot our video Kip up there has like an amazing community and it's just an amazing spot that he lets musicians come and just do their thing and the caribou room and all those things and then Denver too I mean there's just so much community in Denver. I feel like we're all in this just one incestual band. It's just like, it's a bunch of the same people from all different bands cut up into different bands

and playing on different nights. And it's just like playing with your brothers and your homies every night. What's the hardest part about being a musician? The hardest part about being a musician? The hardest part about being a musician, I think just like struggling and with like the self-worth and like, is what you're doing good enough for you? Good enough for like your fans? Are you like going to be accomplished?

Are you going to make it in like 20 years? Like where are you going to be in 20 years? Are you going to be like in a solid place where you're feeling good about yourself and your career? Are you going to be like still playing in a smoky bar? Which there's nothing wrong with that. You know what's funny about all that is like we play music to be present, but we're never present.

Yeah. Yeah. Because we're thinking about all that other stuff. If we just think about the music or today, maybe we'd be happier. So maybe we got to stop thinking, are we going to get famous? Are we going to get popular?

Are we going to build our markets? I think for me, in the present of playing the music, that's why I enjoy it is being present and being here. Then in the now, I always find myself enjoy it is being present and being like here then and then now. I always find myself messing up songs and I'm like,

oh, I'm so hungry. What are we going to do to the show? What do you feel like is the most ratchet thing that's ever happened to you guys on tour? The most ratchet thing?

I mean, you're still, you're doing the grind. You're playing the blue collar gigs and shit. There's got to be some ratchetness coming into some town. I do have a story about me being a fool in front of one of our heroes. What?

Tell me. So we... Okay, here we go. We played. We opened for Umphreys like five years ago. And it was a big deal. And usually when you play with somebody, they'll send someone over to be like, Hey, guys, how's it going?

Nice to see you. They didn't send anybody for a while. So I like i'm gonna party i was like super young i ate like a hit of acid and an ecstasy pill and i'm just coming up on drugs and usually when i'm coming up i'm like pretty good at like talking to people i look up to and chris myers comes walking out and i'm just nervously pacing like with my hands all tingling and i'm just pacing side to side and he goes hey, I really liked your drumming. And I have this animal tattoo on my arm and I like shoved it in his face. I was like,

look at my tattoo. And he was like, Oh, and like in my head, what I wanted to say to him was like, you're such a good drummer and you deserve this tattoo more than me. But what came out of my mouth was about the most psychopathic thing that you could say.

What did the tattoo resemble? The tattoo is just animal. Just like being like a bad-ass drummer, you know, I'm like, you could say. What did the tattoo resemble? The tattoo is just animal, just like being a badass drummer. I'm like, you deserve this. You're an animal. I'm like, look at my tattoo, but what came out of my mouth, so psychopath. I'm like, yeah, if I could just

cut it off and give it to you, I would. I told him that I would cut my tattoo off and get it to him and then I got super nervous and was looking both ways and I was like, I'm in twiddle and I just ran away. Went in doubt. blame Mahali. Yeah. No, that's funny though.

Love you, Mahali. You know, we talk about, you know, just like life and stuff. And you had crazy experience happen with you and your girlfriend. I mean, both your parents passed and her parents passed. Like, how did you guys cope with that? We were just there for each other. I mean, my girlfriend was super there for me when my mom passed away. She was like there all the time giving my mom massages

and just being there for my mom and helping me clean her house. And yeah, I don't know. And then when her dad passed away, I flew to Maine and we had like a big yard sale with her and her brother and we're just there for each other. You know, it's like, well, that shit happens. What's the hardest part of seeing your parents pass away? If you want is to kind of, I feel lucky enough. And I, I strongly suggest this to everyone.

I know that like mend any crazy stuff that you have with your parents or people in your family just like squash the beef and just go and like talk to your parents about like the hard conversations like death and like you know I would like I had someone suggest

me like ask ask your mom like what she would what she would do to be proud of you like what what should you do to that would make her proud? You know? And I asked her and she was like, I just want you to be happy and find a girl that you love and have kids and have a family because I know that's what you want, you know? And I would never have known that if I wouldn't have asked her and just like going and getting that time. And I was lucky enough to like, she had terminal cancer for five years and I was lucky enough to spend a lot of time and move into her house and help her pay bills and just get in the time, you know, cause you just never know when it's going to come. And I mean, it was also the

way she died was really crazy. Like she was, she had like 24 hours to live left kind of, you know, and they're like the hospice people are telling me that. And me and my brother were taking turns watching her and she starts breathing shallow. And I'm like, why? I think it's going to happen. And I just had music playing in her room. And all of a sudden when we walked into the room, my favorite Grateful Dead song, Broke Down Palace just started playing. And I just put my hand on her chest, you know, after a couple of minutes of the song, I was like, it's okay to go to the past. And she just died right after that. And it was like, really saw that. And I saw that and it was really heavy, but it was also just like,

I'm so glad that I was there. Like, so glad that I was able to be there with her, you know, and like, just make like, and like not have her be alone, you know, when that happens. And just like, make like, and like not have her be alone, you know, when that happens. And just like, I don't have any regrets about her dying. Like I didn't, I don't, I wasn't like down, not down to myself being like, Oh, I wish I was there more. I wish I would have done more, you know, like I feel pretty good about it. It was like really hard, you know, but, but just knowing that like I did everything I could, you know, did you feel like you mourned before she died? Yeah, I mean, I definitely, I had moments of, I actually quit the band for like six, seven months

to just go take care of my mom back earlier on. And yeah, I definitely was like preparing myself, but nothing can really prepare yourself for that. You know, I think honestly, I had this, up at the Caribou Room and Ned, they like let me do a ceremony there. They're like, let me use the place. Thank you pete fiori you're the man and um yeah shout out to pete yes yes pete fiori and kimba yeah pete um and they just let me have a ceremony there and it was

kind of one of these things where my my brother really wasn't gonna say wasn't gonna get up and talk he's not really in the same like outgoingness as me. And so I had to give this whole speech about my mom with, in front of all these people and like pick out a slide show with all these pictures of her. And I thought I was going to do really, I thought I, I thought I was going to do well. I was like, I had cried two days before, just like all day, all night. I got up there and like people were saying, I held it together well, but it was just, it was rough just like seeing all of her friends and seeing all these people in the crowd you know but like afterwards it was like this huge weight had been lifted over me it was like just like oh man like oh man it's like purging in front of a bunch of your friends emotionally

purging in front of your friends and your family and people you love is powerful man strong medicine yeah well i'm glad you got through that and that's a crazy story man that's crazy what about your dad my dad is uh he's actually in mexico right now playing music and uh with his band mexican star um but uh he's you know he's had his health problems of his own but he's he's been there for me you know ever since things have happened with happened with my mom you know he's been around and i just since things have happened with my mom. He's been around, and I just try to go fishing with him and make as much time as I have with him because that's just all you can do.

So I just push people. I'm like, go spend time with your parents. Go talk to them about crazy stories. Me and my dad the other day went through all this steamer chess, all these pictures of him with leftover salmon and crazy bands he played with in the 70s and, like, all this shit that, like, once they're gone, you don't ever get that back. So, get it while it's there. Beautiful, man.

That's fucking heavy. Yeah. You tuned in to the fourth season of the World Saving Podcast with Andy Fresco and just listened to episode 113. Produced by Andy Fresco, Joe Angelo, and Chris Lawrence. Help us save the world and spread the word. Please subscribe, rate the show on iTunes

and Spotify. For more info on the show, please find us at Instagram at world saving podcast. Fresco's blog and tour dates you'll find at andyfresco.com. Check our socials

to see what's up next. Can be a video dance party, a showcase concert, or whatever springs to Andy's wicked brain. And we will be back on tour the minute it's safe. Big thank you to this week's guests Maggie Rose and Cody Wales from Magic Beans. Find them on magicbeansmusic.com.

Dolph Cohen was on the show and someone called in to the answering machine. Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. I had a first-time experience today. It didn't involve any food I never tried before, or music I hadn't heard, or sex I never tried. You know, if you stick it somewhere unexpected, and it just sort of, it kinda... Well, never mind.

I was driving towards the sunrise, and the lakes were frozen up, and I was checking this heartwarming musical project on the car stereo. I hadn't been out for months, let alone on a musical trip because of that dreaded lockdown. And my first time experience rolled over me like a wave as I suddenly realized how much in love with life I am. So I sat there driving my car, smiling like crazy, with that swollen woolly chest, being so much in love, in love on my own,

on Valentine's Day, and it felt great. And then it passed, the moment changed, the scenery changed, the song changed, and I remembered the cynic saying, first times never return,

second times can be great, but never like the first one. And I thought of my humble sexual learning curve, and yes, it got better, but I don't remember most of it, except the first time. But somehow, these exceptional moments of love and probably true happiness feel brand new over and over and over again. I wish you all uncountable first-time feelings. See you next week.