Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 127: Frank Turner

Episode Date: June 8, 2021

Following hot on the heels of a headlining show at Red Rocks, Andy revels in a moment of grateful reflection. He also recommends having sex this summer (try it out!). On the Interview Hour we welcome post-hardcore turned folk singer, Frank Turner! Frank's an incredible songwriter with some serious insight for Andy. Nick Gerlach dishes out some grievances and interrupts the show to close us out. This is EP 127. Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out Andy's new song, "Love Hard" on iTunes, Spotify  Get to know the guy: frank-turner.com Produced by Andy Frasco Joe Angelhow Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Mara Davis Ahri Findling Nick Gerlach Arno Bakker

Hey, Andy, it's Mara, Mara Davis, your talent booker. And then you're busy like selling out Redbox and like giving back stage pass the girl. But I have a little feedback for you on your podcast. podcasts, go ahead and ask your kooky friends to write comments in Apple Podcasts and talk about how much they love you and they love your podcast. Because when people are looking for new podcasts, they read those comments. I mean, if your fans want to leave douchey comments too, I think that'd be kind of fun. But if you're listening to this now, please tell your fans, comment on Apple Podcasts. And Andy, maybe sometime return my emails.

Anyway, I can't wait to see you on tour. Atlanta, baby. You better let me backstage. Andy, it's Tommy Gufano, head of A&R. So I got news for you, buddy. We want to sign you to a 10-year record deal. We think you're a star. We think you're the next Billy Joel, okay?

Here's the deal. We want to sign you to a deal, but we don't think you'll sell any records right away. So we're not going to give you too much money to support you. We're not going to give you any opportunities on Spotify or Apple or Pandora, anything like that. We're spending all of our dough on our other apps, but I want you to know that we believe in you 100%. So what we're going to need from you is we're going to need you to fund the album and maybe think about how to market it. But we're behind you 100% so maybe you

think of some fun little videos to make or do your super little dance parties but when you get famous enough to sell some records we're gonna squeeze some money out of you so let us know if you're in we're in if you are we believe in you we're behind you. We love you. Congratulations on success, buddy. And we're back. Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast. I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads?

How's our minds? Are we getting ready? It's fucking hot boy and hot girl summer out there today. I'm feeling it. You can get pumped up for the summer. You're going to fucking shed that quarantine pounds like a snake and get out there and go get some dick and go get some pussy. Whatever you want to do.

Just have good conversations, whatever it is. But it's summer. Shit is popping out here. But, yeah, this is Andy Fr but it's summer. Shit is popping out here. But yeah, this is the Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast presented by Repsy. We got Frank Turner on the show. Repsy is our presenter today and they're badass. You know Repsy. We talk about him all the time. It's an online booking agency that partners with booking agencies. So if you're on a booking agency, they're going to help and they're not going to take a fee. So if you're on a booking agency,

they're going to help and they're not going to take a fee. But if you're not, they'll only take a small fee and it helps. It's a win-win situation for everyone. You might as well fucking do it. Repsy.com. R-E-P-S-Y.com. I mean, it really isn't. If you don't have an agent, it's 10%. And if you do have an agent, we will handle your private and small club slash bar bookings for free. Free, people. You don't fucking lose. A lot of people in the market charge, I don't know, 30% to 50% for artists. But Repsy offers a significantly better deal for the same gig. And they also don't dictate how artists operate.

So if you don't want that gig in fucking Alabama, if they give you a gig in Alabama, you don't want it, you don't have to take it. No hard feelings. They're just trying to get your band out there. So go sign up for Repsy.com. They'll never force or raise their prices or dictate how you do business. You're in charge.

Speaking of in charge, we headlined Red Rocks last week. Holy shit, I'm going to clap for myself. Wow. Un-fucking-real. That was so surreal. There were so many people there. Shout-out to Keller for co-headlining with us,

and shout-out to John Craigie, and shout-out to everyone who flew out there. My parents were there. I was fucking crying. They were crying, and we were just staring at each other. I was staring on the stage, and my mom's fucking crying, were crying and we were just staring at each other i was staring on the stage and my mom's fucking crying i'm crying and just hearing the the reaction the standing ovation and the encore it was just i'm like i made it to a different level in my career and i just

want to say thank you guys so fucking much i fucking love y'all that was such a special moment you know we did red rocks when there's 200 people but it's not the same when it's fucking packed out so fucking much. I fucking love y'all. That was such a special moment. You know, we did Red Rocks when there's 200 people, but it's not the same when it's fucking packed out and your fans are coming from all around. I mean, now I get why everyone fucking comes all over those rocks. Seriously, every band's like, oh, fuck,

I'm gonna come on the rock. Because it's very special. So shout out to Don Strasberg. Shout out to Brian Schwartz. Shout out to Scotty DJ Sleep Sleeping Morale, the promoter. People don't know. Our DJ is actually one of the top promoters in AEG. And, you know, it's good to, you know, I've been seeing him act a fool and dancing with me all quarantine.

Just being my DJ partner and we're dancing on these dance parties. But to see, oh yeah, he actually is a promoter and a booker and the best in the business. So shout out to Scott Morrill. My boy. We love you, Scotty. We love you. We fucking love you over here. But Red Rocks was amazing.

It was surreal to walk down those stairs where every fucking band, the Beatles, fucking Rolling Stones, Portugal, I mean, everyone has played there. And it was just cool to finally sign my name because I said I'm not going to sign until I sell it out. And I sold it out at the capacity that we were supposed to do it at. So it was very special. And to have my mom be there behind me

when I signed the wall, it was fucking powerful. So Red Rocks was. Um, I've been making my record and I'm almost done with it. Y'all worked my ass off. I, um, just had three weeks to make a record and this is the craziest process I've ever been in because it's like, fuck record. I have three weeks until i'm on tour i just announced uh fucking uh like 45 shows in the fall and by the way the pre-sales sold out that's fuck yeah we never had this is a real tour we never had pre-sale before and um thank you all for buying tickets before the show starts but the time this podcast is recorded um so um tickets on sale now, but we'll talk about the, the industry. I got Nick Gerlach coming in, um, sooner than later he's coming in the house, but I wanted to open it up a little bit before I, uh, before we brought Nick in there to talk about what fun festivities

we have for the fall. It's going to be tight. We're, we're doing a world saving local talent search, which is going to be bad-ass. It's going to be fucking awesome. And we're going to try to find people who, um, you know, have new quarantine traits and we're going to give them a trophy and give them a space to try out their new, uh, new gong show style, uh, uh, activities that they learned. So we'll talk about that more after the show, but you know, dreams are funny, dude. You never know when it's going to happen, you know. I really felt like it was like a milestone for this band and for me because, you know, you work so hard. I've been working my ass off for like 13 years.

Oh, by the way, also we'll talk about that too, but I did some cocaine after the Red Rock show. I was so excited. I just did a bunch of coke. But I feel good now. I only did it that one night and then I don't need it again, but I did stay up all night. And I threw like a fucking 50-person party at my house

and my neighbors are fucking pissed. But fuck it. We sold out Red Rocks. Let's go. But what was I saying? Oh, dreams. Yeah. Yeah. When you work at something for so long and don't really care about the results, you just have to, you know, it's like right after Red Rocks, I went straight back into the studio the next day to finish the record.

You know, you don't take a step back and realize like, damn, that was a big accomplishment or a big step into the right way to see whatever dream it is. You got to step back. We can't just work, work, work, put our nose down and say, oh, here's the next thing we got to do. Here's the next thing we got to do.

We got to slow down and appreciate the little wins in life. You know, the little things. Even if a big monument like Red Rocks is fucking huge for us, but I'm talking even smaller, take the microscope away and be proud of yourself. You know, whatever it is, whatever little victory, be pumped up about that little victory. Because if we can't be pumped up about victories, then all we're going to think about is the down shit. And what's the point of living if we can't pump ourselves up?

Like, let's fucking go, right? Play the fucking music. Yo, you're powerful. You're strong. You're fucking focused. You're determined. Don't let a little bit of depression get you down from feeling how the fuck you're supposed to be in this life. You're done with the music, so I don't get sued. Actually, that guy who wrote that song, we're getting him on the podcast. So it's a win-win. So I don't get sued and I'm just going to let him know. Love that tune. But seriously, don't be so down on yourself. Maybe you look at yourself on Instagram, see your friends. A lot of bands will listen to this podcast. Maybe you see your friends announcing tours and

seeing your friends announce big shit. And maybe I'm part of the problem and, you know, boasting about my Red Rocks show, but I didn't never want to do that to make people feel bad. You know, whatever it is that's bumming you out, don't judge other people's situations and dreams over yours. Because at the end of the day, fuck them. Baby steps are going to keep us happy. All right. Enjoy Frank Turner. All right. Next up on the interview hour, we have Frank Turner. Big show tonight. He used to be a post-hardcore singer. Now he is a singer, songwriter in that world.

He's blowing up. He just sold out O2 in London. And he's the shit. And he started his own festival. And he's an advocate for independent venues. He's a good guy. He lives in the country out there in the UK. And we dialed it in.

And we got a great conversation. And so, ladies and gentlemen please welcome Frank Turner on the borders in our heads between the things that can and can't be said stop talking to each other there's something wrong with that So before you go out searching Don't decide what you will find Be more kind, my friend Try to be more kind

You should know You're not alone Frank, how you doing buddy? I'm very well, it's a beautiful sunny day here in Essex in England and it was a miserable May so I'm quite pleased about that What's going on? How's Essex? How's the quarantine? It's glorious, I moved here actually last year I moved down actually last year.

I moved down to the coast. The sea's a couple hundred meters that way. And yeah, it's a different change. It's a change of pace from living in London. But then London's not really London right now anyway. So time enough to leave. And here we are. And I walk down to the sea every day and it makes me happy. You know, it's funny though. I feel like everyone i you know like i used to live in new york and i feel like everyone's basically leaving the city to uh move into the country because they realize that it's the same shit you could yeah well i mean i just cities aren't really cities right now do you know what i mean uh like in the both both last summer when things were kind

of half unlocked over here before i moved like, like London was just kind of miserable. It was a shadow of its former self. And it's sort of, it's a moment as well. And, you know, I'm 39 years old. I think you reach a time when you realize that perhaps your days of kind of being the king of the Camden bars might be behind you. But, you know, it's time for a change of pace. Yeah.

Can we talk about that a little bit? You say being the king of the bars did you have an addiction problem i did yes um i had um uh i mean i i still drink alcohol but um i had issues with other things in my life other substances um which are readily available in bars in camden um and uh like everybody um to quote the whole study, it started recreational and then did kind of medical. And, you know, there was definitely a line crossed somewhere that I didn't notice crossing between partying, quote unquote, and addiction. And it took a while to kind of navigate all of that. But I'm happily on the other side of it these days. What did you learn about

that? So the process of partying and addiction, did you have like a moment where you said this is out of hand? I think one of the main things is it was quite sort of humbling in its way in the sense that kind of self-control has always been quite important to my self-regard, if you know what I mean. Like I'm in control of myself. I know what I'm doing. And I just kind of always figured that was true and it probably was up to a point and then it definitely wasn't so you know I had to kind of accept that I wasn't in control of the situation and in control of my actions and my behavior and also like that I could do with a hand do you know what I mean like I grew up in a pretty

kind of stiff upper lip British family and then I started listening to Henry Rollins and hardcore punk. And neither of those things predisposed me to talking easily about my feelings, you know. And it took a while for me to even consider the idea that I needed any more therapy than just listening to another Pedro the Lion record or whatever. And then, you know, eventually figured my way to some actual serious, like medical help and it made an enormous difference, but that was a huge learning curve for me. How long did it take you until you realized you needed therapy? How many years? Oh, I mean, well, it's like, it depends when you start counting from, cause as I say, it was kind of in, I find it difficult to put my finger on exactly when things crossed that line from being fun and

in control to just being deeply out of control. I mean, there's definitely moments I can look at and go, yeah, that was not cool. But it's difficult to draw a line. But I certainly had a good decade of being kind of pretty lost in substance abuse. And in the end, I mean, this is not the most useful thing to say to people in terms of advice or whatever.

But, like, it was my missus who sorted me out now i'm not going to give people the advice you should marry my my missus because i'm married already um but do you know i mean like she she's a very smart emotionally intelligent person she's actually also um a trainee doctor in psychotherapy so um you know she's in that world of therapy and that kind of thing as well and she's the one who who really drew me up short on a lot of my behaviors. How hard is it to be married to someone who's majored in psychotherapy when your job completely is the last thing you think about is psychotherapy? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, she's also a musician, so that helps. And she's very, very smart. But I mean, certainly it makes arguments kind of frustrating in the sense that I can kind of start shouting.

And she says, well, what I think is happening here is that you're channeling this, this and this. And I say, no, no, no. What's happening here is I'm having a good old shout. And do you know what I mean? It's like there's a tension there. But no, I mean, it is on balance. I mean, it's incredible. It's a wonderful thing to have somebody who's that smart and knowledgeable in the room.

Probably saves me some money on therapy bills. Yeah, you know, the English have a way. I interviewed this magician, Piff the Magic Dragon, and he was telling me about the philosophy in Europe is so different about depression versus it is in America. You know, like you guys are, you guys don't, it's no stigma. Everyone's sad. You know, it's gray, it's gloomy. In America, they hide it. They feel like we need to be stronger than the depression.

I mean, I think that's bullshit. I think there's a fair amount of that in British culture historically. You know, as I mentioned, the stiff upper lip is a thing. That has changed in the last 20 years definitely I mean certainly like um just in the specifics of the music industry like there's been a lot more conversations about mental health in the music industry in a way that would have been really like crazy like 20 years ago when I first started kind of or more now because I'm getting old um but you know there was like the idea of people having open discussions about it 20 years ago is nuts and no one would have gone for it um and I think that's reflected more broadly in the

UK which is a good thing you know it's less stigmatized um my experience of America limited as it is is that you guys tend to be quite a lot more medication happy than we are over here and indeed I have to say if I can I'm trying to say this in a way that isn't sort of like crossing any legal lines but like during my substance abuse days I was always envious of the number of exciting pills my American friends were able to get hold of by just kind of going to the doctor and going can I have some and you can't you just don't get them like that over here it's a lot harder to get, which on balance is a good thing.

I found it very frustrating 10 years ago, but like now it's for the best. Yeah, I mean, I remember touring through Europe and I was just trying to get some antibiotics and they're like, you're not sick enough. Go eat some oranges. Yeah, well, yeah, which I think is probably, again, I mean, if you read articles

about like antibiotic resistance and all that kind of thing, I think we probably do need to chill out a bit on that kind of thing collectively. Not that I'm an expert in these matters. Do you think it's the chemical imbalance that these pills are giving us? Yeah, I mean, I think it's a funny old thing. Like, I mean, one of the things about getting into the world of substance abuse is that there's a lot of people who do a lot of chemical plate spinning, if you know what I mean and it's like people they you have ways of getting up and then ways of coming down and then ways of dealing with a hangover

which can be quite or come down which can be quite chemical as well and suddenly it's just kind of like it's ridiculous do you know what I mean and like you've just got to kind of like clear the decks do you know what I mean because otherwise you're just taking a pill for everything and I think that that leads that doesn't you don't reach an equilibrium very easily i think the natural equilibrium that we all have is a better idea what so instead of pills what were you suppressing your addictions with coke and women or did you always have a girlfriend like what were you doing uh no i i was i i was um i was adventurously single for quite a long time that's definitely true let's go let's go frank yeah well i mean yes and no there's a fair amount

i mean it's the thing there's large and i think this is one of the things a lot of people as i'm sure you know who have anything to do with substance abuse will tell you there's a lot of shame involved in it in the sense that there's large swathes of my life i look back at and just generally kind of go uh yeah um you know what i mean and uh yeah i was in essentially anything any kind of uppers was me like anything that made things go faster um i was never thankfully never really into kind of down as an opiates and that kind of thing it never really floated my boat but like anything that just gave me more energy and more day and i used to stay awake for days and days and days um and just kind of soldier on do you think sleep deprivation just poked the bear with your depression yeah definitely i mean it's again it's just it's not

it's not a good idea like just on the face of it like um you know i think the longest i ever stayed awake was about five days and you know you know, it's just ridiculous. And it does terrible, terrible things. In fact, funnily enough, rather worryingly, I have a friend who is a doctor who once said to me that, like, up to a certain age, generally speaking, like, you can do most things and your body will recover. He was like, as long as you just go to sleep, because that's just hugely important for your metabolism,

as long as you go to sleep, you'll be fine. And I was like, shit. That's the bit I for your metabolism. As long as you go to sleep, you'll be fine. And I was like, shit. That's the bit I haven't been doing. But again, those days are behind me. Can you share a story from one of your darkest moments? I mean, yeah. I mean, so one of the major things for me is I had a sort of rule initially, I had a sort of rule initially, which was that I didn't mix quote unquote partying with playing music because I'm actually like, I can't really sing when I'm either high or coming down

and I can't, my sense of rhythm goes out the window. It's quite weird. Like I can't like play very well if I'm messed up. Right. So for the longest time I had that kind of dividing line and it was kind of balanced in my life because I toured so much that what would happen is I come home off tour, I get messed up for like a long weekend, and then I'd sleep it off, and then I'd be back on tour again. And I wouldn't do it on tour. I never did it on tour for the longest time. And that was, you know, a workable balance in its way. But there was a period of time when I had a sort of a bit of enforced extra time off the road. And I sort of came home and I got messed up and slept it off and then woke up and wasn't then on tour and then went I'll just do that again um and you know and it sort of snowballed and then there

was a period of time and I'm going to be slightly obscure about exactly when and where this was because of people who were at the show but like yeah I did there was one occasion where and because the other thing which again in the long term is quite helpful for me is nobody in my band and crew was really into um any kind of drugs um which and i'm kind of the boss of the show it's under my name and all the rest of it but at the same time i mean they're functioning independent adults and they were not stoked about me kind of crossing that line which i did at one specific point and there was one show that i played where I played a show the night before. Some friends came down.

We ended up staying all night. And I ended up getting a cab to the next venue, which was ridiculous. Basically, you were up for a two-day bender, and then you had to do that show at 2 p.m. How much did that cab cost you? I mean, it probably wasn't. Yeah. I don't remember how much the cab cost me,

but, like, horrible amounts of money, I, I don't, I don't remember how much the cab cost me, but like a horrible amounts of money I'd imagine. Um, uh, and then, yeah, I got to the venue and sort of like tried to pretend to the others that like, I hadn't been up all night, you know, Oh, I had a good old sleep last night and it was total bullshit. And then, um, soundcheck was just like a disaster. And then, and then we did the show and, and like, I, almost the worst part of the whole thing is that i came off thinking i think i got away with that do you know what i mean and then

like i saw the faces of my band members and they were just all like that's the single worst thing we've ever seen anyone do on a stage like um and you know it and i and i felt terrible because it was quite a big show and it was a sold out show. And, you know, there were many thousands of people. Damn, that's crazy, man. So it's like, I mean, that must be the hardest part of basically having a, because your band's been, your consistent backing band for a very long time. Like, I feel that'd be like the worst. It's kind of like a girlfriend letting your boys down, you know?

That was pretty kind of, I put them in a pretty awkward situation. I've been with the same guys for 14 years. I actually just changed one band member recently, but like other than that, 14 years. I put them in a pretty terrible situation. And the good thing is that like, we were together long enough before all of this developed and indeed have continued to tour together afterwards

that like now it's kind of, it's one of uh it's it's uh it's one of our stock of kind of running tour jokes do you know what i mean like um you know uh just as if somebody plays a bad show we can all say well it wasn't as bad as that time um and yeah and it comes back on me oh shit frank shit. Frank's getting a cab again. God, yeah. I mean, I've been in, my band's been together for 13 years too

and, you know, I was just doing a bunch of coke and, you know, having one night stands and, you know, you could tell that it gets to them

because when you don't show up to sound check and, like, your name's on the bill, it's got to be a hard letdown and, you know, all this hard work but I'm glad you're

on the fucking straight and narrow and let's fucking go, Frank'm gonna clap you down let's go big dog let's go tell me about metal yeah what i think i think oh just go tell me what's up okay no go first with what you know i was just to say like i mean i i was gonna say like i mean it's as i say like the other the humility part of it i think is really important like i like to think i've come out the other side of all of this like with a good reason to like not jump to conclusions about other people do you know what I mean because like um I've certainly and to give people second chances and all that kind of thing because like I've certainly made an arsehole out of myself like

so many times um and there's probably people there's probably plenty of people who met me when I was high and thought well that guy's an arse an asshole. And they'll take that around with them. And I can't really gainsay that, but at the same time, it just means that I don't want to rush to judge anybody they encounter, if I can, because we've all got our shit to deal with. Yeah, it's true, man. It's true. And it's like, especially when you have a business that is music and everything that comes with the music,

and especially as you get more popular with your career i mean it's just becomes more and more professional and you know sometimes you just can't can't balance that shit yeah right exactly i want to talk about metal bro you're you're a diehard metal head or what uh i mean i metal was my first love um i i hesitate to say that i'm like up to speed on metal let Let's say that. Do you know what I mean? Like, I certainly like all the kind of classic shit I grew up with. So, you know, some of my favorite bands are like Iron Maiden, Pantera, Cannibal Corpse, all that kind of thing. And like, you know, I have a big taste in the kind of hardcore metal crossover thing, like like convergent every time i die and that sort of shit some of my favorite music ever i mean nowadays like i listen i keep up with a lot of bands i love when i was younger every now and again i kind of accidentally stumble across something new and fall in love with it like nails for example i'm kind of obsessed with at the moment they're ridiculous i mean that's i have a big interest in

not just grindcore but kind of like extremity do you know what i mean like i like music that just feels like being beaten up um and the only problem with that kind of thing is it's kind of an arms race do you know i mean at any given moment there's like one grindcore band that's just laying waste to the competition and so you listen to them and then they hold the title until somebody else comes along like for years i used to only pretty much i listed to Discord and Saxos and The Grind World. And then I moved on to like Pig Destroyer. And now I'm listening to Nails. I'm sure there's others.

And, you know, Nasim and that kind of thing. But yeah, I mean, I love it. I love really aggressive, loud, heavy music. It makes me smile. I mean, same here, man. It's like I used to do the Warped Tour a bunch when I was a kid. And I moved into the songwriting world. It's like I used to do the Warped Tour a bunch when I was a kid, and I moved into the songwriting world. And it's so fascinating to me how same it is.

If you take out the music, you know, it's like what I appreciate about metal music is, you know, the art of like the live show and the art of these small venues. I mean, I heard you're a real big advocate in trying to keep independent venues going. You want to talk about that a little bit? Yeah, definitely. I mean, so in the UK, we have an organization called the Music Venue Trust that's been around for quite a long time

and is run by this guy, Mark, who is destined for sainthood, if any human ever was. And I was kind of like an ambassador for them for the last few years, like before the pandemic was a thing which incidentally goes to show that like it's not there's some people who seem to think like they've got people who run independent venues are like sort of money-grabbing

capitalists and it's just kind of like um if they are they're not very good at it you know what i mean like like there's there are easier ways to get rich than running an independent venue but anyway so you know um it's like i came up playing small and indie venues and as a musician and indeed have spent most of my adult life and my cultural life in independent venues um and uh seeing shows or playing shows and meeting my friends and hanging out and whatever it might be so they're important spaces to me on lots of levels um last year when the pandemic kicked in, I have a lot of friends who run indie venues. And it's like my career was pretty screwed by the pandemic, but not nearly as screwed as somebody whose entire business model revolves around gathering people together in confined spaces. You know what I mean?

So it was just like, yeah, they've got some issues going on. And obviously in March 2020 with the pandemic kicking in, there was a shitload of issues that needed looking at and people that needed help and i'm not for a minute trying to claim that independent venues is the most important one but it was the one that was close to my heart that i knew how to make a difference straight away and i felt like i could make an appreciable difference very quickly um and it all started some friends of mine to venue in nambuka i used to live in the hallway in Nambuka many years ago, um, on a sofa when I wasn't on tour, it was miserable. Um, uh, but, um, it's places very dear to my heart and I was going to go there and do

like a live stream show from the venue to try and help them raise money when they'd kind of ban shows that we hadn't fully locked down. And then they fully locked down and I said to them, well, I can just do it from my house. You know, I've got a phone and a YouTube account. So I did it from my house. And we raised like 12,000 pounds to them in like an hour. And it was just like, whoa. So then I just did it every week. I think I did 26 of them in the end. And the running total, it's difficult to say because I wasn't raising the money directly. I was letting them set up fundraising pages,

but it was about a quarter of a million quid that went directly to indie venues in the last year. And after a certain point in time, the government over here has actually done, I mean, I'm not a fan of our government, but they've done a reasonable job of supporting some parts of the arts and they've given quite a lot of money in about December last year to independent venues, at which point a lot of places were parts of the arts and they've um given quite a lot of money in about

december last year to independent venues at which point a lot of places were kind of home free but like to get to that point i helped a lot of people get to that point and that felt good to me that felt like a useful use of my time let's fucking go frank i fucking love this dog support the boys but like it's yeah i have a couple of things like America got quick about opening venues like they're announcing tours. Europe isn't like that as much. Right. Are they taking a more subtle approach to having a mass crowds at shows? on the continent right now. Here in the UK, not least because we can't really get there, partly because of coronavirus and partly because of the whole complete fuck up

that is Brexit where no one knows what's going on. Anyway, sidebar. Over here in the UK, we have this date, June 21st, when everything's supposed to just flip, go back to normal. I think everybody myself

emphatically included is pretty cynical about whether or not that's actually going to happen in the way that it's been described for many reasons i mean the government in fairness is saying that like they're not confirming that yet that's just the earliest they go back but also like they've changed their mind and they've gone back on their word and they've kind of fucked us around so much in the last year and a half that like everybody's just a bit like so there are some people booking shows for later in the year and in fact i've got a load of festivals booked over the summer because i can't really afford to say no yeah but at the same time i'm slightly kind of reserving judgment about what precisely is going to happen when i'm planning on touring a lot as soon as I can, both here and everywhere

else, because I love it. I miss it. And I really, really, really need to pay my mortgage. No, it's got to be hard for bands like you because you're at a bigger caliber where you can't you you only could play big venues and big festivals. And you can't really go down to those 500,000 cap rooms, can you? Well, well I mean I can and I do when I because I do loads of kind of like little benefit shows and smaller runs and stuff like that but to be honest they're easy enough to do my objection to doing them is that it makes access to my shows exclusive which is something I've never been a fan of and I always remember I mean just on principle but to to illustrate when I was a kid I remember like Rage Against the Machine did the show at the

Astoria this 2,000 cap room it's ridiculous underplay for them and apparently it was a kid I remember like Rage Against the Machine did a show at the Astoria this 2000 cat room it's ridiculous underplay for them and apparently it was a great show ever I didn't get fucking tickets because I wasn't cool I didn't know where to get tickets I didn't know I didn't even hear about the show until it was sold out do you know what I mean like and I never want my anyone to have to be cool to come to my shows I think that's ridiculous and if I just play underplays then it kind of brings a bit of that into the equation so I don't do it it often, or if I do, I tend to do it as a benefit show type thing, in which case I feel like the kind of morality of it, the karma balances out, if you know what I mean. But yeah, I love it, man. I'll play anywhere. Do you know what I mean? I'll play your front yard. I'll play a squat. I'll play a hotel room. I don't care.

I want to talk about your band, how you kept everyone around. Because your band was called Million Dead? That was my old band, yeah. Or the last of my old bands that I was in before. Same band members in your solo project? No, no, no. Totally different people. So tell me about Million Dead. Is that where you started?

Is that kind of your start? That was my start of playing shows to more than five people. I mean, I grew up, I started my first band I was in, I was like 11 years old, and we played a grand total of one, no, two shows, my older sister's birthday and our bass player's birthday, when we were like 13, you know, and we were terrible. Good Lord, we were so bad. And then I sort of bummed around a few other bands.

I was in a band called Knee Jerk for a while, and we did kind of play the DIY underground circuit in the UK. Not so much a claim or success, as to be said. But, you know, we gave it a go, and we self-released a couple of records and that kind of thing, which essentially meant that our guitarist mum had a CD burner, which in the late 90s was some serious shit. And you know what I mean?

I mean, it was intensive intensive work but it was just like you know doing one at a time and we sold like 150 of them and it was like we're motley crew um uh and then that band broke up and in about 2001 i joined this band million dead um who they hadn't they weren't like a going concern beforehand but i was the last person through the door as it were um and then we toured for four years and we put out two albums on independent labels but like it was the first you know we had a manager and we had a booking agent and we had articles in karang magazine and stuff like that so you know i'm not saying that we were wildly successful but we we achieved something with our life like our last

london show there was 800 people there which at the time i felt like i was headlining glastonbury it was crazy um and then yeah and then that band broke up because we all fell out with each other um boring story but um and i found myself kind of sitting pretty and um uh at the time i felt quite strongly like i'd been let down by the other guys in the band looking back at it now i'm adult enough to realize that I probably did as much letting down as anybody else and that it just wasn't really destined to last forever. But the reason I mentioned this is because a big part of my motivation back then was I didn't want to have to depend on anybody else. So I was like, I'm just going to get a guitar.

I'm going to be completely on my own. I'm not going to have anybody else around me. And I'm just going to write and sing and play all on my own and no one can let me down do you know what i mean yeah so um so i then i did about two and a half years of just touring on the train with a rucksack and a guitar um and i think by that point i had a cd cd burner in my laptop that's good um so i would sit on the train and like burn off demo CDs on the way to the next show. And I would play for 50 quid and a place to sleep. And it was cool.

And I played like a lot of very strange places. And often to not many people. After that last show with my band playing to 800 people, my next London show, my first solo headline London show, there were three people there and they were all on the guest list. So it definitely took a dive. My first solo Headline London show, there were three people there, and they were all on the guest list. Oh, my God. So it definitely took a dive. Yeah, I want to talk about that transition a little bit. Sure. But before that, I want to – before we get into that. It is halftime at the Enni Fresco interview hour.

Hello. My name is Nick Gerlach, and this week's halftime show is a review of what? Bars? Yeah. Okay, we're going back to bars, okay? Stuff's getting back to normal. We're in GA. Let's get back to our manners, okay? First of all, fucking tip, all right? These people have been unemployed for a year. They weren't even allowed to go to work, okay? Some of them couldn't get unemployment.

If your bill is, let's say, I don't know, $80, let's make it easy. Let's make it $100. That means you tip at least, what, $20, okay? Because we're doing 20%, because this is America, okay? And we tip here. That's it. Just tip your fucking bartenders. If you don't tip, don't go out.

Stop it. You're not in society, okay? It's a social contract we have with each other. We tip them, and they don't put shit in our drinks and our food. If we stop tipping, we're all going to get poisoned. Tip! Tip! What did you learn in retrospect

that you thought you were doing with your other band that was wrong? I don't know. I'm not sure I would say masses necessarily that we were doing wrong, particularly. I mean, I guess the one thing... You said you were doing something, like, in retrospect. Oh, yeah, well, I mean,

just like we all fell out with each other. We weren't very good at being friends. But at the same time, looking looking back now i sort of wonder how long for this world that band was ever destined to be really we were four very different people in that band and at times that was our strength in the sense that we all had radically different musical opinions um and i i'm i'm very proud of million dead and i think that we made very unique music i don't think that we really sounded like anybody at the time or since um and i'm proud of Million Dead and I think that we made very unique music I don't think that we really sounded like anybody at the time or since um and I'm proud of that and that comes from the fact that we all just I mean I wanted to sound like Refused and our bass player wanted to sound

like Queens of the Stone Age and our guitarist wanted us to sound like the D4 or Hot Snakes or something and I think our drummer wanted us to sound like At The Drive and I don't know it was it was it was there was a lot of tension mus. And for a time that was really positive. And then, you know, we spent four years in a transit van with people like sitting on amps and stuff. And, um, it sucks by the end of it. Do you ever get in a fight? No, not, not a physical fight, but we were kind of Olympic standard passive aggressors. Um, yeah, I mean, there was some, there was some icy cold, very long van journey. That's worse than getting a black eye. Cause at least you could heal quickly. Yeah. I mean, there was, there was, uh, there was some pretty brutal, um, like people having one,

cause the van kind of split down the middle and like two people would have a conversation about the other two while they were also in the van and uh it was it was pretty bad um yeah and like i remember kind of like after the last show we did because basically we agreed to break up we had a tour booked we decided to make it a farewell tour weirdly enough that last tour we did was the best shows we ever played for two reasons partly because we all hated each other so much there was a lot of aggression on the stage but it was also tempered by the fact that it was like it didn't really matter anymore because we knew that we were 10 days away from being done and i remember after the last show because i was just a singer in that band so as usual with lead singers i didn't do very much packing up of

equipment or anything um and i remember like finishing the last show and just kind of walking out the front door of the venue and walking off down the street and that was the end um no goodbyes nothing no i mean the drummer and i grew up together and we remain pretty close and we play together in another band these days but um it took a long time for me to make peace with the other two and like i say for a long time i regarded myself as the injured party and i don't think that's actually 100 true i'm sure that i was just as much of an asshole as anybody else yeah i mean when there's four different personalities and all the suppression i mean there's got to be you know misunderstandings of being an asshole yeah totally and and well you know i was like 22 23 at this point in my life i'm not sure that i had very much figured out

generally you know um you're 23 when this band broke up so you're on the road right at 18 i was on the road when i was 16 oh you're oh now i gotta talk about your parents what the fuck that's awesome 16 oh yeah my parents well with with active discouragement from my parents my parents hated it they didn't want me to do it i had to kind of run away to do it um did you graduate high school yeah I did I at the beginning I would just tour like in holidays do you know what I mean and then I moved to London um after finishing high school when I was 18 and was just touring as much as I could and then I went to university um and uh very nearly got kicked out many times because I was never there um because

i was on tour i remember one time they called me up to kick me out and i was in belgium trying to pretend i wasn't in belgium um trying to trying to stop anyone speaking loudly in french anywhere near me do you know what i mean like um but uh and then i i graduated university as well actually i did manage to pull it off by the skin of my teeth. And then the minute that was done, it was like full time. I sold all my shit, moved out of my flat and just toured. So why did you decide if the dream was always music, why did you feel like you had to go to college?

Was your parents passive aggressive about you going to school? I also care quite a lot about matters intellectual. Like, I mean, I'm sitting in front of my history book collection and uh you know i studied history at uni and i care about it quite a lot i mean it wasn't i didn't go to college with an eye to a degree getting me a job kind of thing do you know i mean it was because i really gave a shit um uh and i did i did reasonably well at it um and i still kind of keep an amateur interest in the topic going. But actually, okay, here's a story for you.

So my tutor at the university was a woman called Anita Przemowska, who's this incredible Polish historian. I studied like Central and Eastern European history. And she, when I got my degree, she said to me, right, you can stop doing your stupid music shit now and come and study for a doctorate with me and i said that's not going to happen because i'm in a band and we're touring and

it's going reasonably well and it's very kind of you to say that but it's not gonna happen um about 10 years later i mean almost to the day kind of thing i was headlining the o2 in london which is a very large indoor gig and like the night before the gig i was having a dinner with my sister and my old tutor came up and i was like i'm gonna drop her a line i still had her email address and i said to an email saying look you know i'm still doing my stupid music thing i'm headlining the biggest arena in the city tomorrow night and i was like you know i can get you on the guest so i can get you a box they have boxes there and i put some fucking champagne in there or whatever you can come down and she replied i'm still not interested

in your stupid music oh fuck that oh fuck that girl dude no no it was amazing she then invited me to go to her book launch because she wrote a book about a guy called vadisav gomalka who was a polish reform communist in the 1950s who i studied quite a lot um at her encouragement and then um yeah I went down to her book lunch and we had coffee and it was great oh you know it's probably just joking around now probably no she's she's she's not a rock and roll fan what can I say yeah what can you say you should have said well I'm still not interested in your stupid book the problem the problem is is that I was I am there we go that's so great so what do you love about history that gets you so fascinated i don't know um uh it's kind of like the it's the only thing i ever took

from my dad i suppose just one way of putting it like um i just i find it difficult to parse the world around me if i don't know how it got to be how it is you know um and i'm pretty omnivorous about history i mean i studied like say central and east european history but like i i recently i'm currently reading an account of traveling through central asia in the 1860s um and i recently finished uh history of the ottoman empire and i've got one about the aztecs coming up and yeah just kind of like anything anyway it's like how did that happen it i find it fascinating do Do you think history is a full circle? Do you think it repeats itself in a way? No, I think Mark Twain, history doesn't repeat itself, but sometimes it rhymes. That's beautiful. I didn't know. Yeah, that's pretty good. I mean, I think it's a little

facile sometimes to say that history repeats itself. Not least there's a degree of kind of fatalism in that, like in the sense, if I may be so bold as to quote myself like i wrote a song a couple of records ago called 1933 and the reason i called it 1933 is not because i thought that we were currently living through a redo of the 1930s but because in 1933 people still had choices do you know i mean it wasn't 1939 or 1941 or whatever at that point and things could have gone a different way if people had taken various taken actions and looked at things in different ways. And I very firmly believe that we still, you know,

to say, oh, history repeats itself. There's something slightly kind of like, like say fatalist about it. It's kind of like throwing it in our hands and going, oh, well,

it's going to be a disaster. It's like, well, no, it's not. If we make better choices and if we educate ourselves, do you know what I mean? And so,

yeah. So do you think we don't have a choice anymore? No, I think this is my point. I think we always have choices. I think that, you know, there is such a thing as historical forces. I think one of the things that's been very interesting about the last five years, for people born and brought up in the West, like me, and I'm assuming like you as well, like I feel like the last five years has been the first time that any of us have really experienced what history feels like. Yeah. Do you know know what i mean we all grew up in this like bizarre kind of oasis um i was thinking about this with regards to the pandemic you do you know what i mean i was i remember kind

of thinking man it's so annoying that my kind of life plans have been kind of shook up and derailed and all this kind of thing and then i thought well that's what life has been like for almost every single generation in the history of our fucking species do you know what i mean and like and now we're bitching about it you're fucking right why why do you think we got so uh so sensitive over life changes i think i think i think we like to say it's a difficult it's a difficult kind of conundrum because on the one hand you know we grew again in the west specifically but we grew up in a kind of lull in history and not a terrible time in history um and that's in and of itself not a terrible thing but it breeds it breeds familiarity and content and and um all those and it just

means people lower their guards kind of thing do you know what i mean yeah totally and you know i mean the art of change you know i'm transitioning into this other topic which is very fascinating because a lot of people it's a couple people haven't done this that well, and you are one of the handful of people who made the change from post-hardcore to singer-songwriter. Like Dallas Green did it really well. Yeah. Caraba, Chris Caraba did it pretty well as well.

You talk about the hardships of making the change. Why did you decide to make a change into songwriting, being a singer-songwriter? I mean, a lot of different reasons. Partly, like I say, I wanted to be independent and self-reliant, and it's a lot easier to be a one-man folk act than a one-man hardcore act. I mean, the major thing was just a change in my,

or development in my taste. I didn't like grow out of punk and hardcore or anything like that. But like I've been playing that kind of music and thinking exclusively about that kind of music for a long time. And towards the end of Million Dead, we were playing kind of aggressive music and we were touring with aggressive bands. And I couldn't then get into the van at the end of the night and put on my walk run and listen to like the Cro-Mags. Do you know what I mean? I mean, I love the Cro-Mags, but it was just like enough already. night and put on my walk run and listen to like the chromags do you know what i mean i mean i love the chromags but it was just like enough already um so uh i started listening to different types

of music and um because my parents don't really believe in modern music and so i had no like exposure to that as a kid my first love was iron maiden and i kind of went from there into punk rock and at that moment in my life i discovered johnny cash and bob dylan and nina simone and um bruce springsteen and you know country music and folk music and that kind of thing and it was all new to me um and there was a moment of kind of realization for me that it was possible to be heavy musically without necessarily taking your shirt off and screaming at someone you know um and the johnny cash american recording series are really kind of crucial for me in terms of changing my thinking about music i mean i when i was a kid i did love stuff like weezer and cat

and crows and solar asylum and stuff like that and bankwood levelers who are kind of folk punk band from the uk um but i you know i'd never really turned my hand to it i had an acoustic guitar when i was a teenager but i mainly just sort of tried to play Megadeth on it, you know, badly, I should add. Yeah. But, but so, you know, I kind of, it was just like, it seemed like an interesting avenue to pursue. And it's, it's interesting and appropriate that you use the word songwriting to describe it rather than folk or country or anything else, because that was, that was the focus really, for me was song songwriting and it's not that we didn't write songs a million dead but it was slightly kind of cut and shut you know i mean somebody had a riff somebody else had a riff we kind of like nailed them together and go it's three minutes long let's

go um and i started thinking more holistically about what a song constitutes and thinking more about kind of songwriters and you know towns van zandt and chris christopherson and uh and indeed you know regina specter and people like that as well and and motown and whatever else it might be and just what constitutes a song but i think you know i get a kind of sometimes i get a little defensive about it in the sense that because my career has gone on to be more successful there are some people who sort of assume that i broke up being in a hardcore band because I wanted to sell records or whatever yeah and that that kind of irritates me because because it wasn't like that for me and and like I'm not for a second trying to claim any kind of precedence not least because some of the names you were just mentioning but like in 2005 the idea of leaving a

punk band to make an acoustic record was laughable like no one did that I knew two people who'd done it which was chuck reagan and tim barry um both of whom are now dear friends of mine and we've toured together and i regard them as people whose footsteps i followed in but like you know when i told my friends i was going to make an acoustic project i people laughed people actually laughed um one person who million dead worked with like professionally i went to her and said you know would you be interested in continuing to work with me when i do my acoustic solo project and she laughed and kicked me out of her office um the next time i saw her i ran into her just as i

walked onto the main stage at reading festival three from down from headline and she had the decency to be like i guess i'm an idiot um so so that was quite satisfying that's oh that's frank this is fucking so i want to know like what was the first what were the hardest parts of writing a song by yourself in the beginning um i mean well i mean the hardest parts i guess is not having anyone else to bounce ideas off do you know i mean i definitely had many moments at the beginning of just finishing a tune and just going i have no idea if this is good or bad and like are you a good guitar player um i'm better now than i was then i mean um you know i've always played guitar but i didn't play guitar in million dead and we tour a lot so i didn't play that much guitar on a day-to-day basis since i went solo i play guitar like all the time

and naturally i've got better at it but like i mean there's a song on my first record called worst things happen at sea which is kind of a fan favorite for a lot of people and i remember finishing that song i'm just thinking i don't know if this is a good song i've got no way of telling and i was gonna ditch it and then i just played it to a friend of mine and he was like are you out of your fucking mind he was like that's the best song you've written so far um did you have a deal yet or no no no no this was this was super early days um uh and yeah so you know there was a fair amount of um of of kind of i mean loneliness is too loaded a term for it but it was definitely kind of like slightly isolated

having said that i would say that like i i definitely i'm proud of the fact that i essentially followed my muse do you know what i mean i made the music that i felt like I wanted to make not the music that I felt like anybody else thought I should make or that would make me popular or that would make me rich or any of that kind of shit and there was as with many many people and I'm sure you know what I'm talking about there was kind of like a flurry of songs at the beginning because it was like

oh shit I've got something to say and I've got a new way of saying it that feels really really comfortable to me and it was just like blah and like I did my first three albums in three years you know um and you're making hard on them you're doing like 100 100 plus shows a year with them or oh 200 plus yeah um yeah we we did a lot of shows back then i mean until march last year i continued to average about 150 but my top I think my top was like 320 and that was ridiculous were you burnt out that year uh I mean a little um I said I think I think I think I smelt pretty bad by the end of that um but uh I mean you know I was also that was when

it was like 27 28 or something and that's when the band or that was when you were starting to pop yeah things were starting I mean I was very lucky in my solo career that everything happened incredibly gradually like it really often felt like i would play a tour where i played with 10 people a night and the next tour would be 20 people a night and the next tour would be 30 people a night and it particularly in the uk i just went round and round and round and round and round and round until you know i remember like the first time I sold out the bar flights, 200 people. And I actually arrived at the venue. I'd just flown in from a DIY tour of Russia that I'd just done. And I arrived in and the promoter was trying to explain to me that he was like, we can do the settlement now because the show sold out. And I couldn't understand what he was

talking about. I was like, yeah, but you know, some more people might buy tickets at the door. And he said, said no they can't the show sold out there's no more tickets and i was like but that's the ones on the door and he went there aren't gonna be any on the door like there you can fit 200 people in this room and we sold 200 tickets and i was like what the fuck um was that the first moment you felt like oh shit this is really happening or or you knew it it felt like i was back on track at that moment in time because like i say that was still a step down from where i'd been with million dead but it felt good um and then you know i mean then i did the 300 cap place in london then i did the 500 cap

place in london then did the 800 cap place in london then i did the 2000 cap place in london and round and round and round and round like i say and um But this is the thing, and it kept being gradualist. And there's been quite a few moments in my career where I've done something that everyone was like, this is ignition point. After this, ta-pow, out of sight. And it never happened like that. It just, like the graph just went,

oh, a little bit, do you know what I mean? It never went down, but it never kind of went exponential either. So, and then I had this moment in 2012 where i played my first arena headline show but it was like i climbed the ladder step by step by step by step to get there and it was such a cool feeling because i felt like i'd earned it do you know what i mean and that was on towards the end of the cycle of my fourth solo album and there was such a good atmosphere in the room because i think a lot of people were a bit like

really like an arena show i saw this guy played a five people in a bar um but but but the vibe was cool everybody was into it I think um and it was it was a magic evening but yeah so I mean I have friends who've been in bands who've gone from playing to five people to playing to 50,000 people in like six months and I think that's really really difficult psychologically to do I feel lucky that it didn't happen for me like that actually because you know it just gave me time to kind of take it all in step by step it's i'm kind of grateful looking back that it's and yeah i'm sure you know what i mean redbox is such a great spot lots of steps as well dude the the steps and what do you have was that any what venue was like your like dream venue to play uh well i mean actually there was a bit of sadness in this there was a venue in central london called

the astoria that was like any kid who grew up listening to punk and hardcore and metal or indeed like indie rock the astoria was just like it it was a 2000 cap place that was literally bang in the geographic center of london and i went there a hundred thousand times as a kid and i loved it and um i played i played them loads as a support act. And it was like just at the moment when my career, I was getting to the point where I could headline a 2000 cat room in London and sell it out. The historic got demolished.

Oh, fuck. Got knocked down. Yeah, it really sucked. Oh, dude. So I did a place called Shep's Bush Empire instead, which is the same capacity and is a lovely space. Yeah, it's sick. The other thing we had is that,

so my manager, Charlie, who's been with me since early days and who I love very much, he, right at the beginning, when we started working together, he said to me, if you ever sell out the Astoria, I'll do a stage dive.

And he's like not the kind of dude who would usually do a stage dive. Then the Astoria closed down and he felt very kind of secure because it was going that way. And he was like, shit. And then it was like, well, no, I think this transfers to Shepherd's Bush. It's the same size venue.

The same size. Get your ass out there. Yeah. So he did. He did. He did at StayStone. What's your manager's name? Charlie.

Fuck yeah, Charlie. Way to go, Charlie. Let's go, big dog. That's awesome, man. So you've had, man, you seem like you're a very loyal dude. It seems like you just keep people around, even through the ups and downs. Is that something that's important to you?

Yeah, I mean, it is. I don't want to stand here and claim that I'm like, loyal to a fault or anything like that. And I mean, actually, I alluded to this briefly earlier. I swapped out a band member last year for the first time, like ever in my career. Yeah, it was really hard and i don't not going into any detail on it because it was a personal situation and it was very difficult

for everybody concerned um and i feel you know there was a there's a fair degree of kind of sadness about the whole situation my new guy is incredible my new drummer he's fucking sensational um so so that's cool but like you know i felt i mean i think that that was a very difficult decision for me because loyalty is important to me and like not least as well the guys in my band they started playing i started doing full band shows kind of as soon as i could even vaguely afford to do it but all of those guys essentially toured for nothing for years yeah on the understanding that when we got to a point where there was something they would get a decent share of it. And, and, um, and, and we did do that,

you know, but they, they all took an investment and a leap of faith in me, an investment time and a leap of faith. And, and I, it's important to me to repay that. Fuck Frank, you're a good dude, bro. No, it's true. I mean, like, you know, we all have our emotional, we are, we all have the chemical imbalance sometimes, but at the end of the day, when you look back at your life and realize you tried to keep everything you know friendships yeah yeah i mean i've i've well going circling back around to what we were talking about a while

back like i mean there are certain areas of my life in which i feel like i've done a reasonable job of these kind of things there are other areas in which i'm not going to stand up and try and take any fucking credit man well let's we only remember the good stuff in our world. Okay, there we go. Lovely. Excellent. You know, tell me about your dad. Do you have a good relationship with your dad?

I feel it. That's a difficult topic on a number of different levels. I mean, the short answer is no, or at least I haven't done for a long time. There's been a bit of a change in recent years. It's difficult to discuss. I mean, essentially throughout my entire childhood, it was frosty and then it was appalling. And then it was non-existent for a long, long time. I had no contact of any kind.

And my parents separated and it was horrendous. And yeah, that was a bad time. That hurt you? Sorry? Did that hurt you? I had no contacts of any kind and my parents separated and it was horrendous. Um, and yeah, that was a bad time. Um, sorry. Did that hurt you? Uh, probably.

I mean, I, my parents separated when I was, when I was in my early twenties. Um, and, uh, it hurt me that my mother was hurt cause I'm very close to my mom and she suffered a lot at that period of time.

Um, and through no fault of her own and I that troubled me and indeed troubles me still um you know a fair amount of water's been under a bridge since then and like um my dad has had a twin brother who was like my surrogate father growing up he was he was like the good version of my dad I loved him to pieces he passed away three years ago now and um he kind of engineered a bit of a kind of um not reconciliation is too strong a word but at least standing in the same room with me and my dad before he died um so we've seen a bit of each other in recent years there is more to the story than i'm not going into it's okay it's fine did

you have closure at least of how you felt towards them i uh i'm certainly a lot more relaxed about it now like i mean when my wife and i first met i was like yeah i've got you know i've got no relationship with my dad and i'm completely fucking fine about it you know what i mean and it's like oh okay um and it's uh you know badass dude yeah yeah totally but did you know what i mean it's like the look i've i've done that lots of people everyone does it where you kind of like you you aggressively tell people that there's not an issue in a way that immediately screams from the rooftops right there is an enormous fucking issue um uh he's like everything is fine stop asking me about it um uh you know i've moved on from

there i'm pleased to say um actually funnily enough i mean part of the reason i'm being circumspect about this and i hope you forgive me as i've just finished a new record that's going to be out next year early january next year um and i got into infinitely more detail about my childhood and that kind of thing than ever before but i'm sort of just slightly waiting until the record's mixed yeah well to be continued then my man until everyone yeah yeah yeah well we'll have this conversation again in february next year yeah perfect um you know one of our heroes in america and when i played with him a lot is jason isbell how'd you get how'd you get to know him uh i i met jason once i think um when he was with drive by

um i i'm pretty sure he doesn't remember, if you know what I mean. Were you with the drive-by? Oh, yeah, yeah. I love drive-by. They're great. Oh, sick. Yeah, yeah. Killer band.

But, you know, he was pretty messed up at that point in his life. As everybody knows, it's not a secret. And then reasonably early on in his solo career or post-drive-by career, I remember Brian from gaslight um sent me a copy of southeastern and it actually was funny he didn't send this to me he said go and buy this record and if you don't love it i will personally refund you your money and i was like huh okay um so i went to get it and it's one of my favorite records ever. So, um, and then we just did some shows together pretty early doors. Um,

and he's just a sweet dude. And then since then we've toured together often, um, and stayed in touch. What's the song that you guys wrote together about? Oh, well, so we,

he played guitar in the tune for me. Um, but something that not that many people, not enough people know about Jason. He plays guitar sellers on his records and his live live shows he plays country guitar sellers and they're tasteful and beautiful that man is a fucking shredder yeah right he is like a metal shredder dude he's unbelievable like in sound checks when we were on tour just every day he'd sort of get there early and just kind of like fucking let rip um and i remember just thinking it's like his dark secret nobody

knows he's like fucking eddie van halen or some shit um anyway so i was working on this tune and i wanted to have like a ripping lead and uh i gave him a call yes and he said yeah oh yeah one of the nice things about jason is that he's entirely like under his own steam he is his own label and all this kind of thing so there was no kind of like bullshit politics and clearance to be sorted out yeah i texted him and he said this was while everybody was still in pretty hardcore lockdown as well i texted him i said do you want to play guitar so he was like i'm so fucking bored yes definitely send me the fucking well fuck yeah shout out to jason shout out to you frank what dude i appreciate jason he's one of the best dudes man i love that guy i agree man Well, fuck yeah. Shout out to Jason. Shout out to you, Frank. What a dude. I appreciate you.

Jason, he's one of the best dudes, man. I love that guy. I agree, man. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing your career blossom and fucking keep on going up, big dog. And hopefully I'll see you soon. I sincerely hope we cross bars at a show. That would be lovely. And we could share a cold beer.

Yeah. Which you guys have in your country. Yeah. You don't have it. No ice in that fucking country fucking country no i know i don't i fucking know it um uh but uh but yeah you know that'd be a beautiful thing i would love that and we can continue the conversation off record i want to hear about your pops i want to i'm all right you know i'm the same um one last question you being a history uh enthado, and I think I just made up a word there, but for you being a history buff

and about legacy, what do you want to be remembered by, Frank Turner? I will have no idea whether anybody does or not, so it strikes me as an irrelevant question. It's so funny, you love history and it's like... Oh, I mean, one can care about

the state of the world, the interest in the state of the world the interest in the state of the world and it doesn't necessarily translate into being self-obsessed enough to think that you need a fucking statue if you know what i mean like jesus christ um uh i don't know man like i'd like to be remembered as a decent songwriter yeah that's it's a funny thing like throughout my career there's been moments where i've kind of bumped up against kind of political scenes or whatever else it might be um and you know and i've had good experiences bad experiences that and the thing that i'm always trying to get across to people which some people seem to have a vested interest in not understanding is like i care so much more about being being a

songwriter and being regarded as somewhere and they'll do about anything else yeah you know i mean like i don't give a fuck about anything else i just want to be it'd be nice to be my heroes people like tans van zandt and chris christopherson like i say you know if i could be remembered in that kind of bracket i would be overwhelmed do you like like john prine and all those type of oh yeah yeah yeah totally loud and wayne right actually is one of my all-time favorite writers wow i actually own i own his old guitar it's upstairs um yeah yeah and and indeed i've played a show with him and he would, could not have been more awesome. Um,

really tell me a story before we leave. Oh, well, so, so I booked him for my festival, my lost evenings festival. And it was amazing because like, so I,

you know, I picked the bill myself and he was playing, he was the main support on the first day. And like, I always sort of hang out and try and say hi to people when they arrive and make people feel welcome. It's my festival. So, you know know most bands show up with a bunch of people and their sound guy and their merch person and their manager and their tour manager and whatever

else it is and louden just kind of walked in off the street um uh in in boston to the house of blues just on his own wearing a fucking suit and a fedora with a cardboard guitar case and i was like fucking hell it's not the way right so when went over and said hey and i said where's your where's your crew man and he was like what are you talking about it's just me um and he then like he got up on stage and delivered an absolute fucking master class in performance and songwriting nobody in the crowd really knew who he was and he just smashed it out of the park like it was if i could be like that when i'm his age that would be a wonderful thing do you know i mean he was just he was a goddamn master of the room

it was amazing also like i mean he never plays dead's count like full stop never plays that song and somebody in the crowd shouted out and he was like finally somebody knows who i am yes i will play that song um and uh but like by the end of his set like he blew me off the stage totally which is exactly what i want at my own festival seriously like i i wouldn't i wouldn't play yeah yeah what and um is it hard for it was is it hard for what's like the idea of like telling a story into a song like that master are you good at that is that i'm the wrong person to ask those guys are so good at that man oh yeah yeah i mean i certainly try on occasion but it's not really for me to say whether or not i succeed but like you know loudon's loudon's most recent record which is whatever

it is like his 27th album or something you know there's a song on it another song in c and there's a line in it where he says if families didn't fall apart, I guess there'd be no need for art. And it's like, that might be one of the best lyrics I've ever heard in my life. It's one of his best lyrics, and he's still hitting it, you know, at his age. And after that much music put out into the world, I find that very inspirational.

Why don't you think songwriters like that don't get as much love as they used to in the 50s and 60s? I don't know, but like, this is kind of what I mean, though, when you're talking about legacy and stuff like that. It's like, I know Lennon Wainwright isn't the most famous person in the 50s and 60s i don't know but like this is kind of what i mean though when you're talking about legacy and stuff like that it's like i know lan and wayne wright isn't the most famous person in the world but like you know he's not starving to death and like in certain company he is regarded as a god because he fucking is yeah um and like that kind of regard means

on the rare occasions when i've encountered it means a lot to me i mean actually loudon he left before the end of my show but he wrote me a letter while I was on stage telling me that he enjoyed my music and all this kind of thing. And that means a huge amount to me. Did you keep the letter? Fuck yeah, I keep everything. Good. Oh, yeah, you a hoarder?

Yeah, totally. What's the most random thing you've hoarded? Christ, I mean, I'd keep every flyer and every letter I get sent and blah, blah, blah and blah blah blah blah I've got loads of bullshit I've also I've kind of randomly got a shed full of cardboard cutouts of famous people out there as well he's a friend of mine works for a cardboard cutout company so I've got like Elvis and Nick Cave and my friend my guitar tech actually is a cardboard cutout well Frank keep doing keep doing the great work um we'll be rooting for you and

i can't wait to hear the new record and i'm so stoked to work with thank you man all the yeah we're rooting for you out here in the states buddy i'll be back over as soon as i can i hope we share a bit we will buddy have a great one later bud all the best man later and there you have it frank turner wow good. Good guy. I'm stoked. What a fucking pimp. All right. I will. Sorry,

I'm distracted. I had to sign out of the Skype for a second, but we'll catch on tail and let's go. Now, a message from the UN. Don't give frasco drugs. Take two. Don't give Frasco drugs Don't give Frasco drugs

And from the first time he asked the crowd for mushrooms They put them on the keyboard and Schwartz found out. And by the tenth time now he asked for cocaine. Half ounce on the keyboard. Now the cops found out. board. Now the cops found out. Don't give Frasco drugs. Don't give Frasco drugs. Don't give Frasco drugs. He's in jail for the first time. Who knows how long he's gonna last I need your help guys! He's got a boyfriend, they dagger

Don't drop the soap and wash your ass Don't give Frasco drugs Don't give Frasco drugs. Don't give Frasco drugs. Let's start the show. And we're back. We're back. Wow, wasn't that a great interview?

Frank Turner. Yeah. Do you know him? Never heard of him, actually. He's like the biggest UK act right now. I don't know a lot about that punk sort of folky thing. He's like a punk rocker, but not all the way. Turned folky. But he was a punk rocker.

Yeah, he's a folk. Okay. He's the one who blew up more than any of those other dudes. Who are some of his comparable? Like the guy Dallas Green, who was in City in Color, but was in Fuck. Are they all British? No, that dude's American. Dastport Confessional.

Okay, so it's like that. It's kind of sad? I don't know. I'm thinking of Bright Eyes. I'm thinking of Bright Eyes. Bright Eyes was a band, and he went solo, too. Conor Oberst? Yeah.

People love him. They love him. Don't know anything about him. But he's from UK, which is a little different. That whole scene. Conor Oberst is Yeah. People love him. They love him. Don't know anything about him. But he's from UK, which is a little different. You know, that whole scene. Conor Oberst is from Omaha, Nebraska. That's why I like him. I do like that record label.

He's Saddle Creek or Saddleback. I don't know anything about it, but just like anyone from the Midwest. Well, shout out for Frank for giving me the time. You come from the Midwest and you make it, I fuck with you. Yeah. It's harder for us. Is it harder for people in the Midwest? Yes.

I feel like it's easier because you have more time. Okay, there's that. That's exactly I was talking to Paris about this the other night at I think that Dom and Benny show. Oh yeah, by the way, Nick Gerlach. Hey, Nick. Hey, everybody. You know Paris? He plays trumpet. Yeah, I hung out with him.

Okay, so he's from this town called Springfield, Illinois. Very similar upbringing as me. Lived in a like 200,000, 300,000 person town, then moved to the big city in a state, which is Chicago for him. And we were talking about how we talked to these guys who are from the East Coast or West Coast,

horn players, and they're like, oh yeah, when I was 16 I was taking lessons with Dave Liebman, who's a legendary sax teacher. Which for the Midwest, in the Midwest, that's ridiculous. That's like the legend. They meet legends way younger. They see that shit in person way younger, so that's, that's like ridiculous. You know what I mean? That's like the legend. They meet legends way younger. They see that shit in person way younger. So that's a huge advantage for them.

Now the advantage that you have when you're from the Midwest is what you're talking about. It's why people from Indiana have the wettest jump shots, right? Yeah. It's because they have time and there's nothing else to do. So they just practice. Yeah. So whatever. But really who you know is way more important though, isn't it?

Yeah. Like what were you doing when you were 16? It's ridiculous. Yeah. I worked at a grocery, who you know is way more important, though, isn't it? Yeah. Like, what were you doing when you were 16? It's ridiculous. Yeah. I worked at a grocery store, you know? You were, like, fucking shows. I was fucking amazing. But it's about who you know.

Yeah, you're right. But it's just easier to do that in LA. Yeah, true. That wasn't even... Would I have done that in Fort Wayne if I had the chance? Yes, you know? But that's not even, like, in your mind when you're 16 in Indiana. Yeah.

It's crazy. That's why houses are only two months. Did you ever dream about being on a three-month tour and not picking up your saxophone? No, I haven't. It's going to be crazy. Should I still bring my horn, though? Yeah, of course. Maybe not every leg, though.

Just bring it. Yeah, but that's just another thing to bring. I know, but you're not bringing anything. You're the host of the world-saving talent. Yeah, you're right. I think... Okay, so why don't you tell everyone... I've gotten a few emails.

What's your game plan? You got a few emails? Yeah. But it's all bands? No, but I've gotten a couple. Like this one guy that like unicycles or something. Like one of those things. The boards and he also juggles at the same time.

Let's explain. Let's explain. Oh, he skateboards and juggles? Yeah, I've gotten some bands. one of those things, the boards and he also juggles. Let's explain. Let's explain. Oh, he's skateboards and I've gotten some bands, bands. Okay. Let's just explain the idea that we're trying to do here. We have an opening slot, an hour or 45 minutes. It's like half an hour to 45 minutes. I think market dependent.

Nick Gerlach and I are a variety show, building a variety show where Nick is going to host it. I better not be on that stage for longer than 20 minutes. 20 minutes. I was thinking like five. All right, perfect. I mean, 20 minutes. If I'm doing two sets, I'm taking some of your support.

20 minutes would be like if no one wants to come do it. No, there's no way you're going to be at the 20. I'll just play. I'll just DJ. What do you think? Okay, so give people your pitch of why they should join the talent show. Okay. I think people need to know this is a very broad thing.

I want the weirdest shit ever up there. I want jugglers. If you want to rap, that's fine, I guess. If you breathe fire, I don't know. Your agent kind of had this idea a little bit, Jon Bonjorna. Because he's done something similar, I guess, with another act.

And I think people, you don't need to be a singer-songwriter. It doesn't need to be music. It can be anything. This is like, think America's Got Talent, not the voice. You know what I mean? You know how in America's Got Talent,

it's like anything. If you want to come up and do five minutes on America's Got Talent, it's like anything. If you want to come up and do five minutes of stand-up comedy. Yeah. And anything. And then, you know, we'll probably judge you

and pick a winner. Mm-hmm. And we haven't decided the prize yet, exactly. Trophy. You got a few ideas? I want to maybe, maybe my dinner buyout

could be the prize. That's funny. $25? Whatever, yeah. In an envelope with my name on it. Yeah, Nickerlaxach's fucking lunch money. So I've gotten a few emails.

You know, I'd like to get as many as I can. It'd be great if the whole thing was the talent show every night. That's probably not going to happen. So I have some other stuff, like when we did the pre-show. Are you smarter than Andy Frasco? Yeah. We can do that with a crowd member. Cool.

Or we can do like three crowd members. You don't have to be on stage for that. Oh, that's smart, Nick. I might just ask you questions in the van during the day. You don't even realize. I think we're going to get more talent people than you think. I think so, too. But it's good to have multiple things.

Maybe we should ask Repsy. How well do you know your own city? Oh, that's a good idea. So I like to research things for your interview. I just look up a bunch of shit about the city. Oh, sick. And I get maybe three people from the audience. Whoever knows where they live the best wins.

Who do you think you're going to get sick of the most? On the tour? I don't know. I don't get sick of people, man. You're easy? I'm pretty chill. I think people are going to get sick of me, maybe. No, I think they're going to get sick of us drinking all the time.

Oh, I don't drink as much as you guys. We drink every night. Yeah, I don't drink that much i'm gonna try and be you know because i have to get up there and talk by myself for a little bit yeah i'll introduce you like i did with oh yeah you have to i was gonna maybe think of like a good maybe you know get some music involved also maybe you have a sound guy so we could build all these things that's what i'm saying yeah i i was gonna bring my sampler maybe and just play them off my sampler that's a good idea.

Or my computer, whatever. I can play my beats too. I have all this solo music I can do. I'm excited. I'm excited to go on the road with you. That's the thing. No matter what happens, I can fill the time. I can play a 45-minute set of music even if it's, you know. So give them the pitch right now.

The pitch is, you know you think you're more talented than Andy Frasco. You've seen his show. No, I'm just kidding. He's pretty talented. But you've been locked in an apartment for a year. Get out there. Meet some people. Get in front of someone.

Embarrass yourself and maybe win the prize. Juggle. I want some jugglers so bad. Flamethrowers. I want knives in people's mouths. I was asking about the flame thing. Is that going to be legal? Indoor fire? Yeah, we can't do that. Okay, so I was asking about the flame thing. Is that going to be legal? Indoor fire?

Yeah, we can't do that. Oh, some people are asking for... No one's asked that, but I'm just trying to think of different situations. I want hula hoopers. I want fucking... Hula hoopers. Any hippie, weird hippie crystal thing.

Yeah, if you've learned about some rocks and want to talk about it. Just talk about it. If you want to do a TED Talk on whatever, as long as it's not too depressing. Yeah, if you want to do a TED Talk, that's great too. Yeah.

Here's the thing, bands, got some bad news for you. We can't, first of all, people are emailing me, can I open for Andy? I'm the opener. What you're asking me is, can I have your job? And the answer is... We should add some bands. We should add some songwriters. Yeah, I think a duo.

Or a duo, or if the band wants to go acousticwriters. Yeah. I think a duo. Or a duo or a... If the band wants to go acoustic. For sure, I got a couple of acoustic. There's this one 16-year-old kid that emailed me. Cool. Is that legal? Yeah. Fuck it.

They can be in a bar. This probably depends on the state. Well, let's put big-ass X's on his hands. Well, Nick, it's always a pleasure having you. Is it, though? Yeah. I love seeing you. Do you think we're going to get a lot of people in this talent show?

I do. I think we just need to promote it, and we need to make a shit show video for it. The good thing is we have a good fucking three months. We got a good three months, but I want people to be hyped. We did pretty good. We sold a thousand pre-sale tickets. Damn. They're only allowing 10% of

the venues, 10% of the ticket sales to go to pre-sale for our fan club. Oh, so once the pre-sale's over, once it's 10%. It goes open, it opens. So people are interested. I think people are interested in this thing. All right, well. I mean, we're playing the biggest venues we've ever done.

Ogden. Ogden. Fucking Warsaw is 1,200 people in Brooklyn. We're doing Raleigh, whatever that theater. Yeah, that place is sick. It's like old Czech dance hall. Yeah, we'll write a good show, man. No, this is like a real tour.

Isn't it cool? Maybe I need like some sort of visual thing to my show. I was thinking like something where I can like, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, like. I don't think it'd be that hard to do that. No, I think what we should do, it's like, welcome to the,

the banner, like some shitty banner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. World's favorite town. We'll figure out some ideas. All right, guys. Enjoy your day. Hope you like Frank Turner. It's easily my least funny podcast.

I'm sorry, but I gave you information. It's just an informational podcast. We got Matty Madison next week. Don't know who that is. He's like this awesome chef on Viceland. He's huge. No, I'm not into food. I don't know any of the chefs.

Really? This guy has a good personality. I think you're going to love him. And then we got, I'm going into food. I don't know any of the chefs. Really? This guy has a good personality. I think you're going to love him. And then we got, I'm going to put on some... Isn't there someone super famous coming up? Yes.

Don't tell them. I'm not. That's why I asked. Yeah, very famous. Yeah, very famous. When? Like how long? Two weeks.

Why do you have to wait for this first specific thing or something? You know who asked me to do something like that? Peach Fest. You know Peach Fest? Yeah, I like Peach Fest. They asked me to do something like that? PeachFest. You know PeachFest? Yeah, I like PeachFest.

They asked me to be the correspondent for three days. Dude, let's see if I can do it with you. Yeah, we're negotiating. Two correspondents. It'd be tight if you could help me with the work. When is that? July? It's the end of July, I think.

July 2nd and 3rd. You gigging? I have one I can get out of. You know what I mean for that? Well, yeah, if you want to fly with me out there. The band's playing for one night, but I got to stay all weekend. Dude, I would love to go and just fuck around for two days at a festival. Let's do it.

All right, Nick Gerlach and Andy Frasco at Peach Fest. We'll talk about more. I got this band on. I don't know if you heard of them. Le Special? Oh, dude, I love the bass player in that band. That band is really good. First of all, they fucking slap.

They're funny as shit. Yeah, I'm excited. I cold called them. You guys should do shit together. Yeah, I just messaged them. I'm like, hey, I love your band. Can you want to be on the podcast? And they fucking mess with me right away.

Like, fuck yeah. Dude, one of them has a podcast. It's a horror movie podcast. Oh, cool. I look forward to talking to him. All right. This is a long podcast. It's going to be like a two-hour podcast.

Well, it's free. Yeah, it's free. You know what I mean? Enjoy your days. Enjoy your nights. Bye. It's going to be like a two-hour podcast. Well, it's free. Yeah, it's free. You know what I mean? Enjoy your days. Enjoy your nights. Bye. Be safe out there and goodbye.

You tuned in to the World's Healthest Podcast with Andy Fresco, now in its fourth season. Thank you for listening to this episode produced by Andy Fresco, Joe Angelo, and Chris Lawrence. We need you to help us save the world and spread the word. Please subscribe, rate the show, give us those crazy stars, iTunes, Spotify, wherever you're picking this shit up. Follow us on Instagram at world saving podcast for more info and updates. Fresco's blogs and tour dates

you'll find at andyfresco.com and check our socials to see what's up next. Might be a video dance party, a showcase concert, that crazy shit show, or whatever springs to Andy's wicked brain. And after a year of keeping clean and playing safe, the band is back on tour.

We thank our brand new talent booker, Mara Davis. We thank this week's guest, our co-host, and all the fringy frenzies that help make this show great. Thank you all. And thank you for listening. Be your best, be safe, and we will be back next week. No animals were harmed in the making of this podcast.

As far as we know, any similarity, junction, or knowledge, facts, or fake is purely coincidental.