Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 137: Son Little & Kris Lager

Episode Date: August 24, 2021

On a very special, doubleheader episode of the WSP, we're giving you twice the recommended daily dosage of interviews. We kick off this set of deep questions in the shallow end with our old buddy, Kris Lager just before bringing it on home with Son Little! Also- updates from the road, Summer Camp, and the state of that nitrous tank sitting at Andy's house...  Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out Andy's new song, "DANCIN' AROUND MY GRAVE" on iTunes, Spotify  Follow the incomparable Son Little and our deep brother, Kris Lager Produced by Andy Frasco Joe Angelhow Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Beau Bilinski  Brian Schwartz Shawn Eckels Arno Bakker

what's up Andy it's Bo, your new tour manager. Just checking in, making sure we're all good to go before we leave. This is gonna be a big tour. We need you in top tier shape. Can't be fucking up before we leave here. We got some big shows. So let me know if there's anything else we need. I got everything lined up. Alright, call me. See ya. Hey, it's's Schwartz uh you know I talked to you last night and you're huffing helium and then I talked to you this morning and you're still huffing helium and then I look online and you have fucking balloons and you're hopping whatever that is and and you put it on social media and I'm wondering in what world does that make sense to you I don't even understand it.

Fucking whatever take you have, get rid of it, put it out for the dentist, and drink some water and get some sleep. This is ridiculous. All right, and we're back. Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast. I'm Andy Frasco. How's everyone doing out there? Weird fucking times, huh? Jesus.

Felt like we thought it was over. Then bam! It's out there to fuck us again. COVID. It's back. Jesus Christ. Hi, guys. How you doing?

Hope everyone's staying sane. Everyone's not overthinking doomsday and all that bad stuff that'll just get our anxiety fucking flared up like a weird herp. I'm just kidding. No, we don't flare up our anxiety. I mean, we got to keep calm. These are weird times. It's like, I feel like anything could just trigger our anxiety and our depression, especially 2021 and 2020, thinking that there's no end to things. can we do to help get our minds right? If you got to get off all the booze or if you got to get off,

you know, it's been, it's been a crazy, I mean, summer's here. It's the end of summer. You guys have probably been parting your dicks off. Take a step back, drink some water, chill out. I am one to blame as well. I had a great summer. I've been parting my ass off. You know, all the good stuff, not the bad stuff. I've been staying away from all off. You know, all the good stuff, not the bad stuff. I've been staying away from all the bad stuff since a couple podcasts ago. I'll shout out to myself. Let's go. Still on it. Still rocking.

Just booze, mushrooms, and a little nitrous. No big deal. But it's been crazy. Because, like, when we get stressed out and we get anxiety ridden, we go to our addictions. Some people like to smoke a pack of cigarettes like myself sometimes when I'm anxious. Some people like to get a tank of nitrous. I bought a tank of nitrous. It's crazy. I had to get this thing out of my house before the tour. We'll talk about summer camp too. That was a blast, but I had to get this. You know, you could get nitrous delivered to you, a big old tank. I'm like, Jesus,

it was a birthday party. And you know, when you have a party at the house, you get the leftovers. There was a tank in my house. I'm like, I got to chill it out. I have a big, this is a big tour, blah, blah, blah. I drove to summer camp, by the way, shout out to summer camp. Drove to summer camp. By the way, shout out to summer camp. What a fucking event that was. I played summer camp for five years. You know, I felt like this was like a coming home party for me.

We've always been playing on the small stage. Shout out to Ian Goldberg, my man. Appreciate you, Big Daddy. Ian runs summer camp. He's like, we're putting Frasco on the big stage. And, um, I hope I didn't disappoint. It was a blast. Um, we had a great time, bunch of sit-ins, all my friends, sack, squash sat in, which is dope as shit. We had doom flamingo sit-in. We had, you know, core stay sick and the doomers, um, saying our single, which is also, shout out, 26 radio stations, y'all.

Hell yeah. Dancing Around My Grave is on 26 radio stations. I'm fucking jacked up about that. And y'all are singing along. We put that song at the end of the set, this festival. And you guys were fucking jacked up. I just can't thank you enough. You know, it's scary times right now.

But we're in this together. You know, people are trying to right now, but we're in this together. You know, people are trying to do whatever they got to do. Stay safe, and I appreciate everyone doing their part to keep music around because we need it. It takes a village to keep this thing going, and we need to not be pessimistic about our brothers and sisters, and we need to be optimistic about everything that goes around in this community. It's us. It's us against the world.

We have to play the fucking music. We got to stay strong out there. Stay focused. They're out to get us. They're out to get the hippies and the wookies. Because they think we are the troublemakers. Well, God damn it, we're not. We are fucking passionate people, and all

we want to do is just fill our soul with music and community, and that's why we did the Summer Camp Music Fest. It was a blast. Shout out to Jay Blakesburg for bringing a bunch of titties on stage. Holy shit.

Titties and dicks. It was a naked, we did a naked acrobatic set at the end where a bunch of free, willing, loving people, not a bunch, but, you know, socially, you know, in the right mind state, came up on stage and took, and just got naked, and we just had a big party,

and it was a good, good fun, and it was safe, and we kept it chill, and we kept it rocking, but we had a blast. That was amazing. I felt the set was really strong, and you get nervous when you play. We're playing festivals almost every day for the next two weeks. You're like, fuck, a lot of these guys are coming out to the festival. They already saw us play at, what was that festival we played last week? Summer Camp?

No, not Summer Camp. Peach. Peach Fest. And then, no, Floyd Fest. So people have been watching all the sets. You know, we're on all these festivals. So we always have to change it up. It's always got to get crazier or just different songs and different vibes, different sit-ins.

And sometimes it comes with pressure and stress. And I felt like we really gave the people what they want. I'm going to clap up for the band. Way to go, boys. Y'all fuck shit up this thing. That a boys. Kept it safe. No one's got the COVID.

We're rocking. So I just had a great time. Summer camp was a blast ryan fucking stays what what there's some shows that really popped out on me um death kings ryan stasek mikey gancer and uh michael caruba holy shit i've been waiting a year for that that was heavy as fuck and for them to. I'm going to clap for y'all one more time. Way to go, boys. Y'all fuck shit up out there. That was fucking tight. And then, you know, Bayless.

I love Bayless. I got to sit in with him. Bayless invites us to, you know, play with his high school man. And late night, it was called Fate Night, which was a blast. But I always give Bayless shit like, oh, okay, Bayless, you don't let us play on the big stage, but you throw us in, sitting in with your high school band. So shout out to Bayless. Anything, I'll do anything for you, Bayless. I love you, buddy. Great guy, great guy, great guy. But yeah,

but summer camp, it was insanely fun. And these i can't i think i'm getting too old to stay at festivals for three days my liver my body just says frasco chill the fuck out i know you want to you're like a happy dog just running around just want to hang out with everyone you guys gotta chill the fuck out because you're getting older and you need your energy we're on tour for three months people on tour for three months, people on tour for three months. I got to conserve that energy. I want, I don't want to get shows canceled. I'm trying not to get the COVID. Um, speaking of taking care of each other, Repsy, they take care of bands all the time. Damn. My transitions are getting good. Hey, um, but seriously, Repsy is the best. Um, you know, if you're in a band, I tell this every week,

but seriously, I look at my calendar. I'm going deeper into the year and getting booked deeper into 2022. I'm getting like ninth holds, 13th holds on some places because everyone's going to be stepping on each other because they need to work. Everyone needs to work. So why not get a company like Repsy to take care of you? Repsy is a booking agency, an online booking agency.

Put your band profile on there, and they have buyers and bookers and whatnot and fraternities and sororities and everything and venue owners, they all go to Repsy.com and see if they could get a band, and if you don't want, they'll send you an offer too, and if you don't like the show, you don't have to take it, but at least another person is there fighting for you, it's going to be a hard time, so if they have to cancel shows again, the band, I feel bad for the bands that are like, that draw 100 people a night or 50 people a night

that are fucking road-dogging it because those are the first ones that are going to not get the shows. And how are you going to develop a band if you can't get the shows, if you're competing with like, you know, other big bands who can't get in the big venues and they have to move to the smaller venues

and do three nights. So it's just, it's a domino effect. So you might as well get another guy on your side. So go to Repsy.com and sign your band up. Yes. This Thursday we're playing at the Mulberry Mountain, Arkansas, back in the home groove. Can't wait to be playing back at the Backwoods Music Festival

near Fayetteville, Arkansas. And I think with the Disco Biscuits. And then the 28th we're playing in Cockeysville, Maryland. Is that Baltimore? What is that? Yeah, it's just north of Baltimore. North of Baltimore. So we're playing in Baltimore on the 28th.

And then with Green Sky Bluegrass. That should be a blast. And then we're playing Dewey Beach on the 29th. And then we're playing Charleston on the 31st. Come on, get those tickets. Charlotte, North Carolina. And then Bonnaroo. We're ready.

We're fucking pumped up. We're going to get it. We're going to jam this shit out. And then Ben, Illinois, Framley Fest on the 4th. So, ladies and gentlemen, that's it. We're out here. We're out here in these streets. Just be optimistic about keeping these shows around because that's the thing.

If we all do our part, we're going to keep this thing going. So we've got to stop thinking so pessimistically, and we've got to start listening to everybody. It's hard to listen to everybody, you know, especially when the last 15 years or 10 years, however long social media has been going on, you're basically in an echo chamber. And you'll just agree, you'll just sit, you'll like things and follow things you agree with. And we need to take some time to start understanding what everyone's going through and what everyone has in their heads. Because if we don't, we're just going to start being selfish with our thoughts.

And now, then we're going to have fighting. And it's going to be like a civil war up in this motherfucker again. I don't want that. I want peace. I want peace. I want happiness. I'm in St. Louis right now. I'm already scared. It's St. Louis kind of ghetto, and it doesn't feel ghetto.

It's a nice area. Yeah, I think we're fine. But I don't want any more anxiety than I need to because that's it. Life's short. And if we keep on going, the way we're going is we're going to stop trusting people. We need that. We need community. So start listening to people.

Start having each other's backs. A couple people in the community. I hear you. Talking shit on the yard when you're being hypocrites. I hear you. Don't worry. Keep my name out of your fucking mouth. That's all I got to say about that. Because we need to stick together. You're out doing the same

shit I'm doing. And you're calling someone out just for you to have feel like it's better. Like you're the bigger person. We're all trying to keep our jobs. We're all trying to live off music, so let's have each other's backs, instead of fucking talking shit, stop talking shit, I don't give a fuck, you can talk shit about me, but stop talking shit about the community, especially if you're in it, all right, I'll leave you with that, I'm done with that, but I got pissed off, we got one dude in the scene, just talking crazy on the yard, when he's being a hypocrite. And he's basically doing, I mean, we're all trying to play shows. But all right, guys, we're going to have a great week.

I got two podcasts for you this week. Two interviews. Sun Little, who is a badass songwriter, badass composer. And I got my buddy, Chris Loggers, helped me write all these songs. And they're just great people. We got to stay focused, stay optimistic, and stop trying to be people that,

we didn't want to be in the first place. I didn't want to be in a boring ass fucking band. I didn't want to be in a fucking professional, you know, just so fun. That sounds so boring to me. I want to have fun. I want to live. So find out what you love, have fun with it and don't let anyone make you lose the fun of what you're doing. All right. I love you and I'll catch you on the tail end.

This is a long ass episode. I already know that. I already listened to the draft and I had to rerecord this opening segment because Joe thought I was too pessimistic in the first one. So I'm here. I'm happy. I'm hung over a little bit. You can hear in my voice, but I'm here to spread the joy and spread the wisdom that we're in this thing together. We are in this thing together. All right. I love you. And I'll catch you on the table. And I'll catch you on the table. All right, next up on the interview hour,

we have Chris Lager, my buddy. Hey, Chris, play some Chris. This is one of my best friends since I was, I don't know, when I first started music. He helped me write my first record. He was one of the musicians that helped us with Smoke and Dope and Rock and Roll. Chris is a great songwriter, great musician out of Omaha, Nebraska. I wanted to get him on the podcast for years now, and finally got him on.

So ladies and gentlemen, enjoy Chris Lager. Slow me down, ain't nothing gone. Slow me down, ain't nothing gone. Slow me down, ain't nothing going Stop it now, ain't nothing going Slow me down As long as I'm just a-kicking on for me here Christopher. Yes, sir.

You mad that it took me three years for you to be on this podcast? You know, I felt like you were intentionally keeping me away because I didn't watch it or listen enough or give you enough attention. So you're like, you know, fuck this dude. I'm going to make him sit this one out. No, I knew our time was going to come. It was going to come. Chris Lager on the World Saving Podcast. I'm a patient man.

One of my favorite songwriters on the planet. Shit. We should start from the beginning. Just in case my listeners don't know who you are. Yeah, there's a good chance they don't know. That's why I haven't been on this podcast. Well, I do. I'm one of your biggest fans.

Thank you. Where did the optimism start? Your songs are so uplifting. We're in the entertainment business, and I had that realization. After getting your ass kicked so many times. And I didn't start out that way. I'm a blues lover. And I was a blues singer.

I love blues songs, Heartbreak, Why'd You Do Me Like That kind of vibe. Because that's kind of the vibe of the blues. So I started out that way for sure, but then after just digging in and having to find your own source, I just started realizing that I'm going to have to start singing better because I believe you're defined by the stories you tell. And I started wanting to tell happier stories. And another thing that changed me was making eye contact.

And you're very good at that. And touring with you, I kind of took notice of that. Because you're very good at making eye contact with, it seems like, everybody in the room. Yeah. And I took note of that. And I think that's a powerful thing. Because how many times do you see an artist, especially big artists, you know, they don't make eye contact.

They don't, you know, it's so, and it's a whole other vibe when you do. Like, and it affects everything you know affects how you perform affects how you interact with the your boys on stage yeah so you know just bringing a positive vibe is a powerful thing and and the vibe is almost as much as the music you know so yeah i mean like when did you start you were an angry kid i remember when you were a kid right uh you know i'm a i'm a fucking redheaded freckle face overweight kid you know beat up and i never got beat up because i've always had like broad shoulders and i've always had you know i've always been pretty stocky so i never really got beat up but you know i definitely got called fat boy or

you know like and i had acne real bad and you know so you go through these phases where you're just like you realize that i never felt like a cool kid you know so music was my sanctuary for sure but who taught you my old man yeah yeah yeah, yeah. He always had the great rock and roll guys going around the house. He was a huge guitar freak, so he loved Steve Ray Vaughan and Jimi Hendrix and Clapton and all those guys. So he was big into that, and that stuck with me. That was my entry point when I picked up the guitar. But even before that, I was huge into MTV.

I was one of those kids that taped MTV. Really? Yeah. My favorite music videos got a spot on the VHS tape, and I watched that shit over, and I danced. I was a big dancer as a kid. Did you know you wanted to do music so young? Yeah.

I wanted to do music before I wanted to do girls. You know what I mean? You always hear that classic, oh, I got into music to get chicks. Frasco story. Yeah, that's your story? No, I don't. It wasn't. I was getting laid before I played music, but not as, you know.

Yeah, see, I had a high school sweetheart pretty young, so I never had to rely on the music. From 16 to 22, I had the same high school girlfriend, yeah. What was she like to you? What? What was she like to you? Was she mean to you? No, no. Did she let you fall in love with you or no no no if anything i felt like i was

mean to her because i kind of left her you know and was like i gotta go experience the road the world the road and so what was the first yeah tell me that like what is the first time you felt like i have to live in a van oh i've never been good at living in a van. It's always been a very dicey relationship with me and the road. Really? Oh, yeah. Like, I struggle on the road big time. What makes you struggle?

I've never been a very good businessman. So, you know... I remember you... What? My favorite story is when you bring in your merch and it's in this fucking shitty luggage or something. You just throw it on. When you open for us, you just throw it on there

and just pop it open. Story of my life, man. Really? Well, you know... I feel like you're a good businessman. I've learned. I've acquired enough skills to pay the bills. There you go.

That's a lyric right there. But I still feel like, you know, the reason why I've. You know, well, the road kicks your ass. Like, even when you're doing it right even when you're doing it well even when you think like you see it all the time even when people who got everything taken care of for them you know like you can be billy eilish and the road still tortures you you know like have you seen that Billie Eilish documentary? I heard. I heard. The road still kicks her ass because you're away from all the comforts of home,

all the people you usually have for reinforcement. And if you find it with your band and your road crew, that's when a lot of the beauty happens. Yeah. road crew that's when a lot of the beauty happens you know so yeah i realized that this tour i am more comfortable when i'm in shitty hotels and i just feel more zen because when i'm at home i'm anxious like i switched i'm that switch yeah yeah you are well you know i also You also have kids Yeah, I've always gone for that though Like I said, I had the girlfriend Young, steady And

I've always had a close relationship With my folks And I always felt like I was really tied to Nebraska Like I never Thought about making the move Because my family Is another Circle of people that I trust and keeps me

grounded and always gives me good advice or, you know, keeps me in check. So I've always wanted that and liked it. So that's another, but I'm, I don't know if it's, you know, I'm not astrological or anything, but the Libra in me, you know, constantly balancing. I love to throw parties and play music and get lost with the boys and do the thing and hit the road. But I also need to come home. Because I have a philosophy that I define myself through the music. The music doesn't. I'm not a musician as far as in some sort of made-up fantasy construct of my ego.

I try to kill my ego when it comes to how I live and what I care about. So family and friends will do that to you. They won't let you ride high at least my friend i don't know if it's the the midwestern thing or not midwestern it is exactly yeah my old man would check me real quick you know when he thought my ego was getting out of hand you know when what has there ever been a time where your ego was way too out of hand that it could have broken your family? Oh, yeah. Every night.

Every night. Every night you get in front of an audience and they give you love, you automatically are like, I get more love here than I do. Do you feel like you didn't get enough love as a kid? No. No. I mean, you know. It's a safe space chris

no you know my old man was one of those guys that he was at all my practices you know when i played football or basketball and he coached and and he and he taught me how to play music and we spent hours and hours and hours playing together like he you know and he would just hold down the rhythm and i would play leads for hours pass away your dad about five years ago yeah yeah yeah he died of lung cancer so and that's had a huge effect on me it's kind of funny how they almost loom larger when after they pass away larger yeah you know because i would think differently it's like all the shit he used to say all the all his words it almost reverberates louder after after you watch him whittle away. Do you overthink some of the things he might have said emotionally?

Instead of like... Because sometimes we say things we don't mean. We're just fucking in the moment, fucking emotional, angry, crazy. I like that too. We never did have any knockdown, drag out fights. I mean, there was times where we didn't see eye to eye, for sure. I mean, he was a construction worker, blue-collar guy, and I'm this wild, hippie-ass musician.

And he was a hippie dude, and playing in bands was his dream. So he did put a little bit of that on me. What, like, oh, you're living the dream? Yeah. Like, kind of resentfully? In fact, one of my favorite stories about my old man is is i wrote this song and it was a song that i put on my last release spectrum and it's called i'm happy but i ain't proud oh my god yeah it's it's a hell of a lyric yeah it's called i'm happy

but i ain't proud that's a good one one. I wrote it sitting around my fireplace at home, feeling inadequate and having a few shots of whiskey and wanting to blame my old man. So there's this one line in the song called, well, it was like, so the opening lines are like, I ain't no B, but I'm buzzing. Damn if I was, damned if I wasn't. Willie and Waylon were right the whole time. I should have been a doctor or lawyer or such, kind of like that whole vibe. And then further on down in the song, there was a line saying,

I chased my daddy's dream. down in the song there was a line saying i chased my daddy's dream oh because i felt in a in a you know in a way that he always wanted me to be a musician so you know it's oh yeah yeah it was it was a gimme like i never wanted to do anything else but when you're sitting there you know feeling like you're not quite where you want to be your own shit yeah yeah stewing on it you throw out a lyric like that because it resonates right yeah and i never i never knew he heard the song but little did i know you know he's my biggest fan and but he always played it cool he wasn't a very he didn't tell a lot of stories and do you know but after he passed away my mom gave me a a whole like just loose papers from his drawer and stuff and i was going through him and i saw a rebuttal poem from that song what did it

say it said you said that you were chasing my dreams but you're the one who came to me when you were 13 oh Oh, my God. Isn't that funny as fuck? He's battle rapping me from the grave. Dude, like Tupac and Biggie, dog. It's like, no, but that's so, man, it's heartbreaking. And it's also real where we think that we build these ideas of what people think of us when it could be completely wrong. Maybe he was fucking proud of you.

He was proud of me. He was. Oh, yeah, we never had a hard time. Like, you know, shit's always complicated when you're a family. And he had visions for me that probably didn't turn out. But ultimately. What? What do you know he had visions for me that probably didn't turn out but ultimately what what do you think he had visions of um you know i think he just didn't always understand some of the musical directions you know because because i really brought in my musical horizons

as i yeah played and you know i i dug back into my 90s love love for hip hop and R&B and funk and soul. And he never wanted me to have a sax player in the band or shit like that. But he would never tell me these things. I just picked him up through the family or through conversations. Because he respected me. But it wasn't until he almost was on his dying bed that he was like you know you don't have to play music you know i never i never want you know he's like you you could probably do anything you want to do you

know like but that was the only time he's ever said that. But, you know, you just reminisce. Oh, you thought that that's all he wanted? It didn't really occur to me one way or another. Like, I never blamed him for my lot in life. I gave him credit because he was a powerful figure. And, you know, I'm not one of those guys that – it's just funny that I'm just saying like they loom larger yeah like his voice like he was such a powerful figure i would not be a musician if it wasn't for

him and i got nothing but love for him you know and i i want to give him his props because you know he did sit down with me and teach me when i was 13 because i i always also say that i'm probably the only blues bass guitar player that can credit snoop dogg for picking up the guitar dude because well i got grounded when i was 13 for stealing a bottle at davidoff cool water cologne no way yeah from snoop dogg song lotty dotty lotty dotty we's like the party so and i was hanging out with my boys when i was 13 and and i saw a bottle of david off cool water cologne and you know we were mall rats so we just like stole the bottle yeah and i got caught you go to jail no luckily i was a minor yeah but i went home and got grounded for a month

and during that month i picked up the guitar. Because I got so bored. That was before iPhones and smart phones. What was that first song you wrote? Did you write a song in that grounding? No. I wasn't writing songs back then. I was just copying guitar licks and figuring it out.

We didn't talk for a few years. No, no. And I thought you were mad at me. You did? Yeah. No, no, no. I wasn't mad at you. I was just trying to, you know, you scare me.

Really? Yeah, yeah, you really do honestly what tell me well i've always called you the howard stern of rock and roll and look we're on the radio and you say even last night you know you you watching you find that line and you tow that line as hard as you can. And that's one of your skills. That's one of your charms. And, you know, you're on your fun machine, you know, lighting joints up and, you know, throwing bottles around and, you know, throwing bottles around.

And, you know, and that scares me. Why? Because, well, like my old man always told me, be careful what your gimmicks are. Because you're going to end up doing those gimmicks for the rest of your life. I know. And I have some of those gimmicks, and I hear his voice in my head when I do my damn gimmicks. Yeah.

But I've always tried to keep my gimmicks in that realm. And I got kids, and I don't want to die. And ultimately, I was like, you scared me. If I keep this going, after weeks of being on the road with you, I question my sanity. And I question if I can return home and be, you know. Yeah. So, you know, we have different things.

So I just felt like our paths needed to deviate for a little bit you know i was always cheering you on i was always checking you out you know and likewise and uh i'm i'm like watching you guys last night i get teary-eyed because i'm so proud of you guys you know and because you guys were always great but now you guys are just seasoned vets, journeymen, just throwing it out there. There's such a confidence and such a chemistry that you guys got. Sean, Ernie, Andy, you, Chris too.

It's just like, damn, those are my boys. I want to get back to, appreciate that chris but this is your interview so we're not interviewing me uh but i i see that and like you know and going back i didn't know the whole libra thing is a balance thing you need to be balanced if you over if one side of you overtakes the other side, you start feeling uncomfortable, right? Yeah, yeah. So if there's too much family, you start feeling uncomfortable. If there's too much music, you start feeling uncomfortable.

Exactly. So what is the perfect balance for Chris Logger? I'm trying to find it. I really am. And I honestly haven't. Really? No, I haven't found it. Because my vision of a perfect balance has never quite came to fruition.

What is it? Well, ultimately, I'd love to just do jet out on the road for a couple weeks, have a string of great shows, come home for a couple weeks, or something like that. Or, I don't know. I guess I haven't found. That's one of the things that torments me, you know. I hate being on the road and wishing I was home.

Or I hate being home and wishing I was on the road. And both those things happen. So it just takes some discipline and some awareness. Like a lot of times, when you're younger, you don't realize you're tired. And that's been happening to me a lot as I've gotten older. It's like you're pissy, you're mad, you get mad at the band, you get mad at yourself because you're not playing

or performing the way you want. And then you step back and you're like, you know, I did get four hours of sleep last night. And you just learn how to step back and process in a way that you didn't when you were a kid or younger because you didn't have to because your body was know was was more you know yeah able to take a beating yeah i realized that too like i had i can't do five shows in a row anymore yeah right i start getting tired after four show or something three show like

i had that this weekend like i. I had to go to bed. I never was like that. Right? You know, this balance thing. I think you're on to something there. It's basically you get bummed out when you're not present. Yeah, I want to be present. That's like my ultimate goal in life.

I don't care about Grammys. I don't care about charts. I don't care about views, likes. I don't, to a hindrance. I don't care about charts. I don't care about views, likes. I don't, to a hindrance. Yeah, we're still entertainers, you know. Yeah, I mean, but ultimately, I just want to enjoy. That's why I'm terrible at social media. Yeah.

Because I, when I'm having fun or when I'm working, like especially like studio stuff, like I love being in the studio and working, but I never broadcast it because I'm so into it. And then when it's over, I try to go on into something else that I'm into. And it's not a good thing for staying relevant in the social media day and age. Do you regret you're in the wrong era then? Oh, yeah.

I'm in the wrong era for sure. But I'm a throwback. A lot of people, I love recording to tape. I love that analog sound. But part of it, I love social media and the fact that I can keep up with you and I can keep up with everybody else. But that doesn't keep you present. No, it doesn't.

That's the shitty thing about social media. Yeah, I know. It's so easy to get bummed. I mean, nine times out of ten, you scroll and you feel like shit after you scroll. Yeah, exactly. But yet you keep doing it you know like yeah i'm the same way and like i i stopped i stopped getting on facebook i'm addicted to instagram but just because i like to look at pictures and have my brain stop

you know stressing about work or stressing about fucking albums or yada yada. But, yeah, it doesn't make me happy. Right. Seeing all this shit, all this, it's a lot of fake happiness and like. Do you, how often do you check your likes and your views? All the fucking time. Yeah? Does it drive you insane?

It drives me fucking nuts, dude. It's like I've like been programmed this is the problem about getting a little more successful is they program you to focus on that all the time right and it fucks me up because i don't give a fuck you know like i give a fuck about you know growing but when i was a kid i didn't give a fuck right who who liked me that toe on the line you know i'm just gonna be me and it kills it kills me every day that i have to like waste half my day doing that, you know? Yeah. Because, like, I'm always, all I do is think about this. I don't have anything else. I don't have a wife and fucking three, how many kids do you have, five now?

Three. Three kids? You know, it's like, that keeps you present. Yeah, I mean, I wish it kept me present 100% of the time, but, yeah, you still got to work at your presence as a father big time. Oh, I bet. Oh, yeah. It's hard.

Is it hard to leave the road when your kids get older and they're like, what the fuck, dad? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, before the pandemic, I was saying like, oh, I need to really get off the road by the time my daughter's a teenager. Because that's when she's really going to need that, you know, a teenager because that's when she's really going to need that stability. That's when she's really going to be pissed. She's sassy. Yeah, yeah.

And she'll be 10 next month, you know. Holy shit. Yeah, 10. Your kid is 10 years old, dude. 10, 5, and 2. It's fucking nuts. And that's got to be another boulder because gina needs you around that's too much work yeah we're just one person three kids and she's a badass she's a superhero yeah she

really is she's she's my rock in a lot of ways and she holds it down and i and i love it but i'm a better father when i can you know have a few days on the road and come back and I'll be fully present. This pandemic was hard because my mind starts thinking about songs I'm producing. I'm a very heady. The voice in my head is loud how do you turn it down playing music and and having conversation and playing being with people i love and and and being the band leader can be very lonely on the road you you know. Hell yeah. You know that. I know that. Because everybody, you know, it's easy for, you know, the side guy. Not that they're side guys, but, you know, they're band members,

and there's always a leader. It just, that's, and that's us, you know. And it's easy to just, you know, that voice in your head gets louder and louder and louder. And you're like, what am I doing with myself? Do you ever take therapy? I'd love to go to therapy. You've never had a session? No.

You've been living with this loud-ass voice your whole goddamn life, Chris? I'm driving you nuts, dude. Well, you know. But you're so good at, okay, so does that voice. I feel like I'm decently adjusted. Does that voice stick know but you're so good at okay so does that feel like i'm decently adjusted does that voice stick around when you're present no that's what i love about that's when i know i'm having fun and i'm in the moment and i'm and i'm loving and i'm hitting the note and i'm singing the song and i'm raising my kids right but you know that voice is a powerful thing i always i'm like i'm puzzled that people don't have it you know because you run across people like oh i

never talked to myself i never like really yeah some people don't have that that's weird how do you know like i don't know or maybe they're like, don't know what that voice is. Maybe, you know? Yeah, it's so fascinating because that voice, I'm the same way. Pandemic, that voice came in a bunch. Yeah. The big voice. When I'm on the road, that big voice inside my head doesn't happen. Yeah.

I'm more anxious when I'm home than i i you know but maybe it's because you feel like you're missing out or you feel like uh like what is the big voice what are the the main things that big voice says to you um what are you doing yeah are you doing it right are you doing it for the right reasons you know uh um are you present sometimes you know my dad did have those sayings that stuck with me you know like especially when i was playing music you know he's like He always had his little tag lines. So his voice does resonate big time in my head. But a lot of it's my own too, and just spiritual little nuggets that I've picked up along the way.

I do wish I meditated more and I sorted out my thoughts a little better and I did yoga. That's kind of the thing about having little kids is they just keep you on the go so much. And then when you're on the road, you're on the go so much. I know there's things, there's ways to quiet this voice in my head. And music is my meditation. I know.

I got some Buddhist friends that are like, that's not meditation. Well, maybe not in your eyes, but for me, playing music and just, like, I call our music boogie trance because I get into a boogie trance and that voice, and I'll put it down and I'll write it down. And those voices have been some good words, you know, and they've kept my spirits up and evidently has for the people that come to our shows too. So, you know, sitting down, getting to a groove, and letting those words spill out onto the pad has gotten, that's been my therapy.

Is it ideal? Probably not. Could I sort some more stuff out? Probably. Because it seems like, I was like that too, and it seems like we only sort out the things that we're comfortable sorting out. I write a lot of pissed off, sad music really do i just don't you just don't

put it out no it's like you know it's like a lot of people write down their feelings and burn burn it or throw it away you know just getting it out yeah i like to get it out i mean you write songs all the fucking time all the time you have You have like, you put out three records, or you wrote three records in quarantine. Yeah, yeah. You're a psychopath. But is that your anxiety? Because you... I love to create.

Writing songs is my favorite thing. Yeah. I mean, for the audience, my song that I have on the record, Sunday Soldier, is written by Chris Logger. And Don't You Worry. All these optimistic songs that basically build my foundation

was written by you, bro. Yeah. I wrote Don't You Worry for my mom. Really? I've never told her that. Really? I've rarely even said that. But yeah, my mom worries all the time.

So I wrote Don't You Worry for my mom. Or you wrote it for yourself oh yeah for myself but i had my mom in mind like yeah it is these you know these powerful figures in life are such great muses you know like scooby scooby's my bro and yeah your drummer he's been such a sunny day soldier was written about scooby really yeah yeah because well you know he was he was he was locked up yeah he was in jail he was locked up and uh we just got done playing with indigenous i used to tour with indigenous which is a blues rock band um it used to be a native family band sue um and they had a radio hit in the late 90s so they they got really catapulted on a nice level.

Back in the late 90s, that's when you could have a radio hit, and they did. So I joined the band, and they were still riding that wave. And so when I got out of the band you know it was kind of are we rolling are we still taping yeah we're good yeah it was just bad

when I got when I got out of the band I wanted to purposely make more happier music because it was like you know I was side fiddle to

Mato and it was his band and he is indigenous so for three years I got to stand by one of my heroes. I grew up loving Mato. I still admire him. And I got to watch this badass on a nightly basis, and I learned a lot.

And one of the things I learned is I want to engage the audience more because he doesn't engage the audience at all yeah so i came out of that wanting to engage the audience and so soon after we started doing klb again full time almost immediately scooby got in trouble and got locked up so we went a few months without him quite a few months actually and when he came back it felt so good it felt so right we were just in the basement jamming and i pulled that riff out and sunny day soldier was born and it's our like our biggest song you know man you're so loyal to everyone are you loyal to yourself you know I got a lot of ex-bandmates that would say I'm not.

They're going to listen to this and be like, Man, fuck that guy. Man, fuck that guy. That guy was not loyal at all. Oh, my ass. Like, they're going to spit their coffee out when they're... No, but seriously, you are loyal to Scooby. Scooby's fucked up so many times. Yeah, but he's such a brilliant

drummer and musician and and you know yeah yeah there's been plenty of times where it's like what the fuck dude like how long can we you know and or but at the same time it's like he's always had my back you know to the best of his abilities and you know we're all different we're all raised different and you know we are we're all given a little toolbox yeah and some of us got a bigger toolbox than others and you know and and uh some people have a hard time surviving and navigating in this world and and we tend, as people who want to have a band, we tend to find people who might struggle. Because, I mean, we all struggle.

How many musicians you know are well-adjusted and good at navigating this crazy, complicated world that we're in you know it's yeah so not a lot it's you know we're we're all fucked up trying to do our best going around trying to do this thing that we love to do and it's not easy and i love frank zappa has this awesome video where he's talking about there's only one other. I think he says being in the military or in the armed forces, that's the only bigger bonding experience than being on the road playing music. Really? Because you're on the front lines doing what you love to do.

It's you guys against the world, and there's no more bigger bonding experience than than that you know you're you're you're literally in the battlefield in the trenches with with you know there's a bond you know yeah everybody i've played with toured with they're i see them as family you know we might not might not talk. We might not get along. But we're family, and we're connected in a way that not a lot of people, you know. I feel like, yeah, like bands get closer than some relationships. Yeah, yeah. Because you're with each other all the time.

You're fighting. You're scrapping. You're sleeping on floors i mean not a lot of relationships has you sleeping on a wooden floor at the motel six you know it's like or just sleeping on someone's dirty ass couch you're like it is war it is and i feel like it makes us who we are you know yeah do you feel like you're a better father family man because of the scrappiness you learned from touring oh yeah oh yeah you know yeah because your vision i mean you get spoiled too yeah because you get used to your ass kissed yeah and living the way you want and yeah there's a certain air about you where like i do what i want like well like i'm comfortable in

almost any situation but i remember being a kid and being uncomfortable in almost every situation you know but being on the road you learn to be comfortable that's what like you learn how to walk through doors in front in a room that you've never been and look like you know the layout you know what i mean you learn that being on the road and because you know if you walk through a door and you look like where am i at someone's gonna stop you yeah so you realize that i just act like i own the joint and walk in and nobody's gonna fuck with you you know you learn those skills from being on the road or uh you know like do you have that same philosophy as a father yeah i want to give my kids confidence i feel like if if there's anything i need to pass on to my kids it's confidence you know because we're all such

anxiety ridden neurotic fuckers walking around you know it's worse now with all these fucking phones and social media i'm like yeah i don't know how to communicate anymore i'm constantly like get off your screen get off your screen get off this and screen. Put it down. Because I just want to teach my kids presence and honesty and integrity and all the things that I think that was handed down to me. I don't harbor any resentment towards my parents. I don't feel like it's any good to harbor any ill feelings. And if I can just pass that on to my kids, I feel like I did my job as a dad you know

so that's my main thing i don't know photo you because this is this is history um yeah i mean shit like what what's what's your dream then chris as how old are you now? 38. 38. As a 38-year-old songwriter, touring, phenom, and father, and a husband, what is the complete dream to make you completely balanced at 38 years old? That's a great question. That's going to take a lot more time than we got. We got time. I ain't going anywhere. You know, I'd like to keep on keeping on.

In the words of Andy Frasco. Because I love the life I live. I really do. Do I have everything? Do I hate struggling? Yeah. Do I hate showing up in the middle of nowhere and playing to nobody? Yeah.

I hate that. Yeah. Those are when I'm at my worst. Like, those are the biggest what the fuck moments. Yeah. And when it really kicks me in my ass that I'm an unorganized, terrible businessman. That's when it really kicks my ass. But those are my lows.

And if those are my lows, I'm not doing too bad. Because there's people out there living in war zones. There's people out there experiencing far greater tragedies than my not so wonderful music career. And not that it's not bad. It's not bad. But I'm just saying happiness is all about checking yourself, humbling yourself, and enjoying what you got.

And I've learned that. It doesn't matter what I get. It doesn't matter what success, fame, or fortune, or views, or likes, or listens, or charts, or awards. None of that. You don't really care? You truly don't care about any of that? I feel like it's all insatiable beasts.

All those things. That's just the Buddhists in me. Yeah. And what I've picked up along is it doesn't matter. None of that shit matters. Do you think that affects your work ethic? You know, I do. I feel like there's a hunger that would, like, I'm still writing a ton of songs, still working on it, still honing my craft, still trying to be better.

And if I did have more success, I probably would slow down. Yeah. But at the same time, I could still, I don't see myself ever slowing down on trying to be i see it as a craft you know and i respect the craft and so i don't think what i get you know of course there's the you know if i could make a boatload of money i sure would spend a week or two in some tropical location you know not honing my craft. So, of course, there's that shit that would keep me from it. But I'd like, you know, I still respect the craft and what it's done to me.

And I believe in the power of music so much that I still try to honor it no matter where I would be in my career. That's beautiful, bro. Because music, like you said, keeps it present. So does families. And for you to say you still honor the craft is pretty powerful because at the end of the day, it is a craft. It is like Kobe shooting 20,000 jump shots and,

uh, yeah, you, you know, philosophers studying the guys who didn't, you know, get the recognition, you know what I'm saying?

So it's like, I, do you ever feel like you're going to be satisfied? No. No? That's good, though. Well, I mean, it's all about definition and mindset, you know? So if I have shows on the books and I got a show tonight

and I get family time scheduled and I got all these things I want to do with myself. Why shouldn't I be satisfied? You know, maybe I'm not hitting the numbers I want. Maybe I'm not getting everything I want, but you know, I just, it's a, it's an adjustment, you know. Is money important to you? More now than you know just because i got kids and and uh i've been slapped with reality quite a few times you know through the pandemic you know i didn't i didn't have savings you know and i struggled to get by and i'm still getting on solid ground financially after this you know pretty much my whole life even before the pandemic, let's be honest.

So that's one of my, if I could do over, I would be way more financially responsible and more oriented. But it's so hard to maintain my philosophy and care about it. It's a fucking, it's- No, it's two different types of mind states. Where you're at and what you've always been to me is this spiritual floater. Just like, yeah, man.

And that's what I admire. Getting by is my stock in trade. Living it day to day. But it's so... You like John Prine? I love John Prine. That was when COVID really hit me. It hit my household hard.

When he died? We cried. We drank whiskey and we cried. What did he teach you about songwriting? What did he teach you about living? I look at him as a wonderful craftsman. living i i look at him as a wonderful craftsman you know he was he he always had something something beautiful poignant punch in the gut kind of lyric and that he he was he means a lot to me you know and it's not that i sing or play any John Prine songs, because I really don't.

I know a couple, but I love putting it on and listening to it. And it really puts me in a good place. And he's been influential. Damn. It's already been an hour. We could talk for days. Yeah, yeah. We really can't.

We can't go through these fucking five-year periods without talking anymore. Yeah, fuck that. No. Fuck that. Yeah. I love you. I'm a big supporter. I am too.

I just want to see you happy in however way it is. I hope you always stay happy. A preacher preaches his biggest sin. I know. Why? Why are we so hard on ourselves? I feel like we have to be, you know? Yeah.

You know, because we're lucky. We see the beauty that is. You know, it's the same reason why social media doesn't quite trip your trigger, because you know the feeling. You know the real feeling of joy and connection. Yeah. And that's because you know the feeling yeah you know the real feeling of joy and connection yeah and you that's why you love the road you know that's why yeah because you connect in ways that few people get to you know people at your shows get to but you know being on the stage that's that's a powerful thing yeah so you know you the trick is how how do we stay how do we go hard on ourselves enough to stay sharp but yet not go insane yeah that's the trick you know well i hope you find peace with whatever you do chris because you know

you're my favorite songwriter beard i've always you're the best you're the goat no i'm not yeah you i hate that no i hate the goat i know i wish the goat would go away i wish somebody could score 40 points without being called the goat this fucking goat tom brady uh tom brady's somewhere pissed pissed that i'm being called to go. Let's fucking go. Tom Brady. Tom Brady's somewhere. Pissed. Pissed that I just got called to go. I love you.

I love you, and you give me so much joy when I'm with you and I play with you and talk to you. Thanks for letting me interview you at a Motel 6. This is a shitty-ass hotel.

I know, dude. I love you. I love you. Thanks for being on the show. Thanks for having me. It is halftime at the Andy Fresco interview hour. Now, a message from the UN. Touched out in the land of the golf carts White people drinking all day

The rest of the band is back in the gym Trying to take the Red Rocks show seriously Frasco would rather travel to that city Where he's a minor celebrity Day drinking in Charleston Travel to that city where he's a minor celebrity. Day drinking in Charleston. Day drinking because there is no tour. Day drinking in Charleston. Where he's mildly famous, you know he can't sit still.

Well, he's drinking in Charleston. A couple people wear his t-shirts he sold last tour Day drinking in Charleston He's drinking all day with Jack Cucuzza for sure All right, round two interview. Two interviews in one episode. I like it. We have Aaron Earl Livingston, also known as Sunlittle. Chris, play some Sunlittle.

This man could write a song as well, man. Holy shit, from Philadelphia. We had a great talk about the music industry and all the good stuff that surrounds it. No, we were just having a real conversation about it. It's fucking hard. Going through depression and

being an introvert and stuff and having to entertain. I mean, shout out to Aaron for being vulnerable. So ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy Sun Little. What up, dude? How you doing, man? How you doing? I'm doing good, man. Never will I give up You're in Jersey? Are you from Philly or are you from Jersey? Man, I'm on the street a lot, man. I was born in LA, but I was born in LA, raised in New York, came to Vegas, New Jersey, and then my musical awakening occurred in Philly. Who taught you your passion for music or songwriting? You know, I don't know where the songwriting came from, to be honest.

I mean, I think, I think like when I was really small, I, I, I wanted to be a writer. Like I barely knew how to write, you know, at all. I was working on ABCs and for some reason thought I'm going to be a writer one day, you know? And I think kind of carried that with me for a while. And then I think, I think it's just like seeing that, that the writers that left the biggest impression were all like poets, you know, were musicians, you know? So I think my mind just kind of switched once I, once I really realized like, oh, I actually do this, you know? So I think my mind just kind of switched once I, once I really realized like, Oh, I actually do this. You know? I switched. I was like, you know, maybe I didn't have the patience for books. So like we do this, it's a little shorter, shorter bursts of creativity.

Yeah. Instead of writing a, you know, a 300 page fiction, you can write a three minute song, call it a day. Yeah, instead of writing a 300-page fiction, you could write a three-minute song, call it a day. Novel. You know what I mean? I don't know if I have quite the stamina for the novel. You know what I mean? I'm like, let me just go crazy for a few days at a time instead of like...

Yeah. Are you an overthinker when you have big projects like that? For sure. For sure. Going around and around and around. Absolutely. What do you overthink the most about art? I think... have big projects like that for sure for sure like going around and around and around absolutely like what what do you what do you overthink the most about art um i think probably i mean really it probably is the lyrics you know it's like

and and and i would i would say these days now that i'm more mature you know yeah we all go super mature um you know I don't look at it as overthinking as much as like I just I just whip around the idea so like I can probably have probably have like a pretty solid idea of what I'm gonna do and what I'm gonna say I will just let it fly and I'll just let it go and run in the background for a while. And when it's time to, you know, kind of gather all the thoughts and get in the studio and really record, then I just kind of like revisit the whole thing from square one. Like, you know, maybe this chorus is not you know yeah totally i've been doing it one way doing it when i'm like nope you know and the whole the whole vibe of the song

can switch for me like all the way at the end you know yeah i mean it doesn't matter how how you get there as long as you get there you know yeah. But I like to be able to make big decisions fast, you know? Like, I think that's, that's the way I usually end up feeling best about it is, you know, if I'm kind of tinkering and tinkering,

like a lot of that tinkering is just a pathway. And then once I'm there, it's like, Oh, I can't say that. That's some bullshit you know just let's rewrite this whole fucking thing yeah so like you know it's like it as you as you watch and pass through life i mean i feel like what you thought was the right thing to say probably

you've learned a little bit more and realize that maybe that's a different way of saying things right right i mean i'm trying to i'm trying to get there where like i think with some writers like probably the ones i admire the most like where there's just a certain percentage of like fuck it involved you know what i mean like dude there's gotta be like where you just you know because you have those moments where like is that really do I really want to say this to everyone? You know, like, does everyone need to hear this shit right now? Like, you know, and at some point, you know, you got to be like, fuck it. Like, all right, let's do it.

You know, like, and I have people sometimes, like, will roll up roll up and they'll like bring up a line. And I'm like, I hear the line back and I'm like, wow, I really said that to everyone. I could say, like, I really just was like, yep, here you go. Like, you can, here's this thought, like, doesn't belong anywhere. Here you go, You can have it. Like, wow. Are you self-critical about what you bring out to the world? Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I think what helps, and I know you might be like this too, where, you know, I think the escape valve is like, when the thing comes out, like, that's it for me. Like, I'm just like, huh? Like, what? Like,

yo, I love this. I'm like, what? I don't remember that. Like, you know, it's kind of like,

it's like never happened almost, you know? Yeah. Like once, once it's out there, it's out there. Like, I just feel like that,

that belongs to, that belongs to everybody else at that point you know yeah that's how i get get through it it's like i don't listen to it yeah like i in my younger years i was addicted to porn so i felt like a lot of my songs were just about coming and fucking fucking girls and stuff you know so it's like and i look past i'm like older now i'm like oh that i'm a little, I get a little cringy about it, but it is a period in your time that we've learned. And I feel like if you look at the legacy at the end of the day,

I think your fans are going to love the growth that, that is you, you know? I hope so. I mean, I, you know, it's like, it's weird too. It was like, as a fan, you know, I know how you can get into that like, I, you know, it's like, it's weird too, because like, as a fan, you know, I know how you can get into that, like, mindset where, you know, if you really love an artist, you see what they do, you know, there's some part of you that like wants that thing over and over again, you know? Yeah. But it really can never be like that. The artists are obviously living and growing and going through all kinds of things. So I try really hard to let the artists I love, give them the space to be different than they were. That version of them that I've been hanging on to, sometimes it works better than others.

too. Sometimes it works better than others, but I definitely see myself doing that and hope people are able to follow the trend. But it's funny, I don't know if you've had that post-show conversation where somebody's like I'll be I get down and they're like, man, those new songs sound great and i'm like new songs like no like those that those three you're talking about like those are from my second album that's that's just like four years old you know like and they're like they're

like yeah um i really only fucked your first record i'm like oh my god it's like fucking a don't even tell me you got a couple like overly honest people like yeah let me tell you like i'm gonna tell you like it is man like you fell off i'm like okay so isn't it funny how like we could be loved by thousands and millions of people but we think about that one fucking guy who just said, fuck that second record. Yeah, that second record is trash. I'm like, yo, what? Somebody come get this guy. Why do you think we're like that?

Do you think it's like when we were kids, we were just insecure? Probably. I mean, I do. I don't think you could really draw up a better like forum, a better like platform think about that sometimes like you know that like after the show hang when

when there's like four different when there's like managers and label people and you know the band is there and a freaking publicist walks in and like I'm like looking around the room sometimes it's kind of like goes in slow mode

I'm like what the fuck room sometimes it's kind of like goes in slow mode. I'm like, what the fuck? All these motherfuckers are weird as fuck. Like, like even the, even the suits, you know, like the suits are fucking weird. You know, like I'm like, you know, like what happened to y'all? You know what I mean? Like, damn, musicians, I kind of get, you know, you kind of get it like, okay, you got it. I see. You got it. Like, damn. It's true. Musicians are kind of good, you know? It's like, you kind of get it. Like, okay, you got it. I see.

You got it like a, you know, it's harder on your sleeve a little bit. Yeah. You're like, oh, you're fucking sad. I see it. We'll sell it. I see it. Yeah, that's nice. Yeah, you know, you're performing the sadness away.

I see. But, well, like, some of these other people, man, I'm like, well, what's your fucking excuse? Because I'm like, how'd what's your fucking excuse? Cause I'm like, it's weird. It's super weird. I think people have a funny view of that though. Like of what that is and what it's like, you know what I mean?

It's, it's interesting. Like just like fantasy versus reality of like that, that like backstage. Yeah. Exactly. I saw a meme go around where it was like, what you think backstage is like titties and Coke, but it's really everyone on their phones. Just fucking texting each other. Yeah.

Sitting on like a grungy couch. What do you thought, what do you thought music life would be when you were a kid? Yeah, probably like titties, mostly. Not just like... I don't know if I got past that part. You know what I mean? It was like, you know,

we're all geniuses and we're not serious. Yeah. Some of us are geniuses with titties. You know what I mean? It's like, like probably half, you know,

about half of us, a little more than half of us are genius titties, geniuses with titties. It's like that. It's so true. Like, I couldn't get laid

unless I was in a band. I felt like. That's what I thought. I really, I tricked myself thinking like, I unless I was in a band. I felt like that's what I thought. I really, I tricked myself thinking like I need to be a band to get laid. Right. And it's like, fuck, that's totally wrong because I do do the backstage thing.

And it isn't like that. It's more stress. Like you're thinking about the next day. You're thinking about the fucking seven hour drive you have, or if you ever had a relationship, the lack of time you're talking to them. Right, right, right. Is being on the road hard for you?

It is. I feel like there's windows. It's like the first week, it's really hard. Yeah. I'm like, there's a lot of just like, what the fuck am I doing here? Yeah. Why am I doing this? Yeah.

Who are these people? Why does it sound so fucking bad? You know? Sounds like shit. You played terrible last night. Like, you know, that kind of. Yeah. That's me in the mirror.

You know, like. Yeah, exactly. You played like shit last night, you know that kind of yeah that's me in the mirror you know like yeah exactly that shit last night bro you know and then and then and then i think like i feel like that you mark that like 10 to 14 day period it like people start acting super weird you know like people get out of the like whatever it was they were holding on to yeah exactly like safe distance from whatever you were running from now everybody starts acting real strange and actually that's that's when you're like okay i can do this you get a rhythm you know i think the hard parts for me are always the ends you know it's like the book the book ends you know at the beginning is really rough trying to gel you rehearse for like eight minutes yeah you know it's like the book the book ends you know at the beginning is really rough trying to gel you rehearse for like eight minutes yeah you know and like seven shows in you're like okay we got it now this isn't that bad then you're kind of cruising and the stuff starts to fall

apart you know yeah what about like is it hard for you to end things? Yeah. That is definitely the hard part. I mean, if there was a probably world record for starting songs, I think I got it. Really? How many songs have you not finished? I'll just be like,

put some of this shit on. Fuck this. Really? Nope. That ain't it like I get hyped like I get super hyped at the beginning shit and I'm loving it it's like the greatest thing ever and then it hits a point

where I'm like no this is trash next you know and sometimes it's funny. I was thinking about this yesterday, like the perception of how your perception of what you're making can flip

so fast. You know, like the other day, I had a bunch of stuff I was working on. I was like, let me listen through these. I mean, I'll listen through 14 of these things. let me listen through these. I mean, I'll listen through, you know, I have like 14 of these things. I'm listening through them. And one day, I was feeling a little funny about it. Like, let me check in with this stuff, see where I'm at, see where I left. I'm listening through and I'm like, it sounded horrible. You know, like I have moments where I'm like, no, this one's most like like i'm like no this one's trash

this one's trash this one's trash it's not all sounds horrible to me and then you know a couple days later same same songs run through and i'm like that's it you know i'm freaking mozart over here you know what i mean like what so do you think you base your feeling emotionally? Were you having a shitty day those two days when you were listening to those tracks? Yeah, I mean, I don't know what it is. That's the weird part about it. I was trying to figure out, like,

what is the shift that's happening? Like, where is that coming from? Because it really is night and day and it'll be, I mean, sometimes it's just like a song here, a song there, but I've had a lot of times where I realized, you know,

I just wasn't in the right, I must've been in the wrong frame of mind because it all sounded wrong. Yeah. And then I go back and I'm like, no, actually this is really good. Like, what are you, what are you worrying about, man?

You know, like, it's like I completely, like I switched brains. Yeah. It's so crazy how emotions, I mean, like you can even say that with, it's the same tour. It's the same three weeks that you go on. But the first week is always, it's like first week is anxiety. Second week is not give a fuck. Third week is like it's like in first week is anxiety second week is not give a fuck third week is like you know third week really not giving up yeah it's really not giving a fuck but like it's so funny how how we think like that because like we are basically just basing life

through emotions right and sometimes it's hard i mean like i deal with that my manager probably fucking hates me some mornings where I'm like just dealing with them through emotion and not like, let's take a step back. I liked this song for two weeks. I might be having a shitty day. Maybe my girlfriend is pissing me off or whatever it is. And then, but like, it's the same thing.

I'm just so curious about what makes you not want to call everyone and say, cancel the CD, cancel the recording. No, I know. And I think, you know, in the beginning, I was having a lot of moments like that, you know, where, I mean, really thank God it wasn't like, you know, I will, I'm like quarantine. What's that?

Like, cause I've been self-isolating for a pretty long time now. What are you talking about? I got a perfect excuse not to ever talk to anyone about anything, but it's great. Dude, it's so funny how it is, though.

I think in the beginning, especially because I went for such a long time like i didn't have you know i didn't have nobody in my corner you know i was just kind of like doing doing whatever what i felt like i needed to do you know and certain people knew about me or whatever so i didn't have anybody to like bounce ideas off of necessarily or or they're like nobody has a stake in it so it wasn't you know it wasn't a thing i didn't have anybody to like bounce ideas off of necessarily or, or they're like, nobody has a stake in it. So it wasn't, you know, it wasn't a thing. I didn't have to have these conversations, but,

so it was a little bit for me, like a little bit of a like learning curve, like late in the game, like, damn, all of a sudden, like everything I do, you know, these like nine people are paying attention to it and have opinions about it. And I definitely went through a phase of where like i would have that mindset switch and be like all right listen up guys remember what i said before no we're doing something different now it's called you know monkey monkey paw and you know like there's a whole you know, monkey, monkey paw. And, you know, like there's a whole, you know,

everyone's sitting there scratching their head. Like, yeah. Yeah. No, we, we pressed it up already. So you can't do that. Yeah. It's like, Oh, what do you mean? At the end of the day, like we are the ruler of our universe, but like when it feels like you have more cooks in the kitchen, it seems like we get more anxiety. Normally, we can just make our decisions,

and that's it. I think it's hard for people who if you are creative and you have a really strong idea of what you're trying to do what you like um and what you want to get out of it i think adding more people into the mix more opinions it it like handcuffs you it paralyzes you a little bit and And there's something about that that is more frightening, that isolation gives you a path.

We're just going forward. You know, you go forward, forward, forward. But those moments where you add other people bring, like, oh, you have to pause. So, yeah, if you're prone to overthinking, that could be the kiss of death. Because every time you let, oh, I've got to send it to this guy, you send it to them. And now they're thinking about it. And just the pause, they don't even have to have a critique. It's just the fact that there's another day to think about what you did gives you time.

It's like when people like texting, you know, like people, I mean, we're just nuts. Like texting. I hate text. I never hated anything as much as I hate texting. Yeah. And, you know, what it's done in people's minds is like, you know, we're texting. Like, it's all good. Like, yeah, man, what's up?

Like, I'm chilling, man. What's going on? What you doing next Thursday? Like, I don't know. What's going on with you? Like, yo, man, I'm having this party. I want you to come down. It's going to be dope. We're going to have some drinks. We're going to chill out.

You want to come through? And they're like... Four days later. Are you going to come through? And then you're like, why wouldn't they want to come through? I mean, I'm cool, right? I'm cool. I mean, aren't we cool? Like, wait, what happened last time we hung out? Like, wait, hold on. Oh, shit, that's right. I forgot.

I took a dump in the pool. Like, damn. Maybe it's maybe he's still mad about me. He's still mad about me taking a dump in the pool? Oh, my God. Like, I thought we were beyond that. But that pause makes your mind go wild, you know? And I think that happens with the art too.

When you get more people involved, it means you start guessing what people are really thinking. And that can really kill you, you know? I agree, man. And I blame social media for that too, the instant gratification. It's like, oh, I have low dopamine. I'm just going to like everything and see smiles.

Yeah. And that's got to be tough for introverts. It seems like you're an introvert, Aaron. Yeah, absolutely. What was your relationship like with your parents? You know, it's interesting. My dad was a pastor.

Really? I was in church when I was little. I think I'm probably, I'm not, you know, I'm not a little bit of a stereotypical PK. Yeah. Well, preachers kid vibe where it's like, I think it just becomes that, that scenario, that arrangement is normal.

Do you like, kind of like being a performer. Yeah. So, oh, yeah. So, like, dad's just up there. He talks. Everybody listens. All right, cool. Sounds good.

You know? Yeah. You know, but I kind of went away from that mindset, like the church part, anyway. It never really grabbed me. So, you know, I think I'm lucky in that, you know, my folks are laid back. Like they let us be who we were going to be, you know? So you didn't have guilt that you didn't believe what your dad was preaching? I never did.

And I never really, well, that's, that's the funny part is like, you know, I can listen to him or any preacher and take what I need to take from it. You know? Um,

so it wasn't necessarily that I didn't believe because most of what he was doing, I mean, he's going to find a part of the Bible and talk about the idea in that part of the book. But, you know, as far as the rest of it, the story and the, you know, all the iconography and all that, like, I just never, that part never really got, you know, but the, but the principle behind it, you know, does resonate.

And I think, you know, that's, that's kind of where I landed with it. It's like, you know, everybody can teach you something. So, you know, I think, I think I just really wanted to have my mind open to all the different ways that you can learn outside of that. And that's why you went into literature? I mean, I think, I mean, like you said, introvert. I think that was my first, I wouldn't have known it then,

but that's like the quintessential kind of introvert thing because you you get squirreled away and you just go and do your little thing and and it's helpful to be isolated with your thoughts you know yeah um and then and then this thing you know it's it's interesting because you need a little bit of both, you know, like, and I know, I see, you know, there's a lot of people out there like quiet as a mouse, like, God, you know, just playing, playing the wall, holding up the wall at the party, but then put them on stage and they while out, you know, and, um, while out, you know? And that was,

that's like a part of my personality that kind of developed later. Oh, really? So like you became an extrovert when in public places, but you really just wanted to be the fuck alone. I'm just like, I'm over here, you know? But if I get in that situation, there's a just like i'm over here you know but but if i get but i get in

that situation there's a part that that gets turned off you know um but i think you know and that that that shows up in your in your in your life outside of it's like you know that uh that looney tunes with the frog yeah that sings hello my baby hi that shit yeah like I always think about that

like how you know the dude the dude this church and worker guy would be like yo check this frog out they'd be like

alright let me see it you know the frog's just like nothing you know like I feel like I feel like a frog sometimes like people are like yo yo this is dope yo watch

this i'm like nah like i'm sure what do you mean have you ever you know soon as soon as that show is over yeah yeah and what about like uh i got i i probably feel that even more when like you know when when your shit's popping and you have to do all this fucking radio stuff at like 10 a.m and they're like all right good luck i'm like motherfucker i was what the not good you can't just turn me on yeah yeah that that that feeling is, that's rough. I think some people are just sort of born for that shit. So, you know, like they're really well suited for that. I think probably most of us are not. You know, it's like, yeah, I'll do this show.

Yeah. Do you have any experiences where you just got so burnt out, you like yelled at somebody or what? Actually, I have one. I think about this sometimes and I feel bad for these kids. experiences where you just got so burnt out you like yelled at somebody or what actually i have i had one man i think about about this sometime and i feel bad for this kid still but like i had this one where um one of the first times i went to europe like they were hitting me super hard like everywhere i went i had to use you know multiple multiple interviews and things and you know i was really new to it at that point.

There was one thing on the schedule. Nobody, it just like slipped through the cracks. Like everybody failed to mention. And like late in the game, I think we were just, we had just played in Amsterdam. And I feel like it was, it was like late that night. Like we, we were all pumped. Like we're pretty much, we were done tour.

We were celebrating, you know, and with the tour. We were celebrating. In the middle of that, somebody said, Aaron, you're up pretty late. Remember you got to do that thing at 8 a.m. or something. I was like, no. That can't be right.

I'm like, no. We're already going. It's too late to really stop the train now. So here we go. I get up that next morning, and the interview was taking place. And it's like I barely remember, but I feel like it was basically a basement. Get down there. It's like pitch dark. It's like a dungeon.

And I'm like, how are we going to do this? And it's just me and this kid. He must have been I think he was like 20. And whoever was supposed to do it wasn't around. He kind of got like, he kind of got thrown into the fire, too. He had never done it before. And I'm like,

yeah, it's going to be good. Like I told him, no, it's going to be all good, man. Don about it you know that he was really nervous trying to set everything up his hand was shaking like he was like i'm going to put my like this and i was like oh and i was trying to like i was really trying to boost him up but i had no energy and like no voice either. So I'm just like, yeah, man, it's going to be good, man. Don't worry about it. Just flow. Just flow with it, you know? Trying to give him advice. And I'm just selling the energy.

And this kid was saying shit like, well, he puts, he starts putting, he's like, you have to put some light, you know, like light. And I was like, yeah, light, cool. Gets one of those big ass like rectangle LED joints and puts it like

right in my face and just I'm like, dude, like what? No, no. And the hangover starts. It was just, yeah, it was just like and so I told him, I was like, look, like look i was like i'm gonna that's too

bright like i'm gonna have to put my glasses on you know and i put the sunglasses on he's like um you know it's not uh it's a reflection you know i'm like, I'm not taking these shirts off, man. This is too bright. My eyeballs are, they can't take that. You know, so I kept the glasses on, which bothered him, but he couldn't do shit about it. His hand's still shaking. He's like, I was questioning. I was like, come on, man, you got this. And then Kobe gets out of the questions.

It's like, you have said before that this is your first time in Europe. Is this the first time in Europe? You know? I'm like, yeah. No way. And I mean,

I didn't mean to do it. I didn't want to do this i couldn't help it i just was so on this guy like i couldn't help it like every question he asked me was like that to the point that i just started laughing like your sunglasses a bright ass fucking led light blasted through you're like in a tanning bed. It's like, the music is a very important part of your life, because from your life and I'm like,

yeah. Yeah, it is. I'm like, you got any other questions, man? Because I can't do this. And it did. It was a straight up just like, man, fuck. Yeah? I'm out of here, dude.

What did the label do? I felt so bad, man. I mean, they were good about it because they saw what I was. They saw how I was. And it was the end. I had done so many already. And I still, I wish I knew that dude's name. I wish I had his address. I would, I wish I knew that dude's name. I wish I had his

address. I would send him like a care package or some shit. I felt like, after the fact, I was like, I feel like I just destroyed this. You know, this is his first time doing it and I was, oh, it was terrible. Dear Johan, I am sorry.

Love, Aaron. Johan, really, I'm sorry. It, Aaron. Y'all, I'm... Really, I'm sorry. I hope... It's so funny, dude. I hope he has, you know, a job at a bank or something right now, probably. There's no other job that just makes you do everything.

That's a good point. Just like... Yeah. There's no vetting. Like, you didn't know. Maybe I was, like, fucking shitty interviewer. You're like, yo, do Frasco's podcast. Yeah, there's no vetting. Like, you didn't know. Maybe I was like fucking shitty interviewer. You're like, yo, do Frasca's podcast. You're like, all right.

That's exactly how it is. It is. And then, but they don't take that seriously. But then when it comes to like your music or your art, they have a say in it. I mean, like you guys, you know, I'm talking in general, I'm not talking about our management or your management was in general. People just the,

the whole idea of managers and publicists and blah, blah, blah is like, they don't even want to do that shit. They want to be a musician. So real. I'm right. Right. That's what you think. You look around and you're like, he used to play to play bass used to play bass drums used to play bass that was insane to me because like i think like they're living vicariously through you a little bit you know a little bit and like then you see that in the excitement that's the weird part to me when you see like like the like electric excitement of the publicist is some wild shit to behold. Publicists are a trip, dude.

You're coming off like, that was really good. Wow. I'm like, whoa, dude. You sure that was really good? I just said yes 17 times. Did I really kill it i feel like you need to be you need to be like you know gassed up on adderall and fucking optimistic to be a publicist you know right it's a certain temperament for sure like you know i like the tm i think about the TM the tour manager makeup is

a wild one that I'm like I kind of never get tired of trying to figure out what's going on in there how are you this person that basically can get slapped around

24 hours a day every single day. I never sleep ever. I know. And drive all the time and, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah. But how, what is it, the herding cats? Like, how do you become cat herder?

I think it's like going back to what we talked about in the beginning. It's like they don't put their emotions in it. They're probably feeling just as shitty. They did just as much cocaine as we did that night or whatever it was. I just think they could departmentalize their emotions. We can't. We're artists. It's coming when it comes.

That's why we're who we're artists you know it's coming when it comes that's why we're who we are we're when the vessel comes we we ride the vessel right that's what you do you can't i mean it i mean you can't you can't get anything you can't really accomplish anything without without that like without like a i mean one of my analogies with that is always is like surfing which like i've been surfing four times just full full disclosure literally just four times literally four times i'm fucking sucking you know obviously but you know the little bit that i have learned from from doing it it's like it's just like you cannot if you're in there trying to like control or fight against the ocean like you're gonna get rocked you know so and you get nothing from that. You know, like the whole point is you like becoming a part of that energy of a wave, you know. And I feel like music and probably all our creative endeavors is like that.

Like you have to like place yourself in the right place first. place yourself in the right place first yeah and once you're in the right place you know you gotta put some put some energy into it put some momentum in it now that you got that going you can you know catch that that peak energy and then you ride it the rest of the way you know but but if you're out there like trying to reinvent the fucking thing. You think you can like, you know, calculate where it's going to be by measuring the distance between the shore and like

that's not going to fucking work. You got to just go out there feel where it is. Where's the energy coming from? Oh, I need to be here. And you can't it's not a verbal thing. It's just like, it's just a feel thing, you know, and you, you feel your way to that spot and you're in the right spot at the right time.

And you start paddling at the right time, fast enough and you get up at the right time. Now you're in the thing and now you don't have to do anything. Yeah. You know, now you can do whatever you want. If I was any good at it, I guess I could walk in front of the board. I could jump off. I can't do none of that shit, but I

can get the board to the right place in the way and paddle at the right time, stand up. Yeah, and that's a great analogy for music as well. You have to be in the right time stand up you know yeah and that's a great analogy for music as well it's like you have to be in the right position to get the information right and like uh when you force it like have you probably you know had fucking writers block a bunch when you're forcing shit

and like you know it's like got pressure you don't write the best shit no that's why you don't finish it that's why maybe you don't finish this track. That's the stuff. That's exactly what I'm talking about. That's stuff where I'm like, oh, this is going to be so... I'm like, no. No, it's not. That's some bullshit.

Then what songs do you think were the best songs to you that you didn't have to try so hard? Yeah. I mean, when I look back, I find this a lot when I'm, you know, when you're doing all that press stuff, I mean, it's sometimes, you know, it's like a drag just doing it. But at the same time, I have found myself like learning things about what I've done by talking to people about it. And, you know, the thing that comes up a lot is, you know, you get these questions like, okay, so you wrote this and you know the thing that comes up a lot is you know you get these questions like

okay so you wrote this you know like how do you like what was on your mind which is like yeah i know like but i realized that whenever i can't remember somebody says like what was your process? You know, you were writing, let's see, you wrote, this wrote mad about, what was your process for writing mad about me?

And I'm like, I have no idea. Like, I don't, if I don't remember, that's usually a good sign to me. Like, I can't remember the sequence of what I did first

or what I used to make certain things. Then I probably, that's probably a good one, you know? The ones where it's like this whole step-by-step process I can regurgitate, you probably never even heard of, you know? Yeah. Oh, God, that's so, you do you uh think of that with like love i've never thought of it that way and i mean you know maybe i should because usually striking out there you know yeah i mean lucky you i never even had a relationship bro so i was like i just went on the one night stand thing forever.

And like, maybe I was too afraid to just not be, you know, overthinking. Because like you said, we overthink things. We make things way shittier than it is. Yeah. Right. So it's like, it's got to be with life. Like, even like getting older, you know? What's your take with life. Even getting older. What's your take on death and getting older and shit?

Well, you know, I mean, that is... I mean, death is like... No, that's that. The ghoul, that's the final boss in the game like it's coming that joint is coming yeah one way or another you don't know when i think it's like you know i read so much me saying like that in order to live right you know you gotta like make friends with death, you know, like it's, it's like, it's like your last lesson here, you know? So it's coming whether you, whether you like it or not, it's coming. So to like obsess and worry about it constantly, it does ruins your life yeah no like so

yeah i mean not overthinking that and certainly getting older too it's like man you sit around thinking about man i used to i used to be able to, you know, almost dunk. Yeah. Back in my day. I know. I get almost dunked. I know. Why do we put so much pressure on death?

Because it's the unknown? I guess those are people just afraid of. It has to be I mean which is weird because people have so many things in life that again it's like people like we all like complain about so many things and worry about all these things

you know but at the same time we'll be like super afraid to let go of all these things that are annoying as fuck you know but you know at the same time we'll be like super afraid to let go of all these things that are annoying as fuck you know yeah totally do you worry about legacy um

not a whole lot honestly that's good I just try to do the coolest shit that I can do. You know? And hopefully somebody thinks it's cool too. But, you know,

I think like, if you start, to me, like I start thinking about like what's everybody going to think later and how long is it going to last and all that.

Like, you know i i just that brings that displeases me yeah you know it's more about again like i i really enjoy the process of just making things you know so um same as like i mean you brought up before just like is it hard to end things and i think that's kind of a small version of like you know you're making a record or something and like you know that at some point you're gonna sit there scratching your head listening to Masters you know and being like I don't know I can't tell what did you do

yeah like is it do we think that way because we've just listened to the fucking thing and thought about the thing

for months so much so much mastering is the worst part. It's like, just get it done. I'm like, just do it. I don't know. I don't know anymore.

I'm definitely in that camp. I mean, I kind of wish I understood it, but I'm like, man, I don't understand it yet. Like, you know, like I've been thinking about this question for a long time yeah if i don't still don't get it like i don't know maybe who knows maybe it'll happen one day but i'm not holding my breath you know like at some point it's when it gets to that point i'm just i feel like all right i did I did what I came here to do. If it's not quite, it's not perfect, and it was never going to be perfect.

So I'm going to let it go. But there's sadness there for me. end of a project i have found myself probably like adding complexity in order to keep it going yeah like i don't know i like this feeling of you know because it's something like making progress you're moving you're taking little steps and making these little decisions and that's changing things up yeah and you can be so into that process that you don't want it to end, you know? Yeah, totally.

I mean, and it's the same thing with life. It's like, you don't want it to end. Some people like us, we chased happiness earlier in our life. We chased the dream, the music.

Some people don't chase that dream until they retire. And then, you know, I'd never wanted to be that type of person. You know? What about you? Right. Yeah. I mean, I never quite could see that. I mean, never like, man, one day I'm'm gonna start building those model trains and like one day i'm gonna do it you know like one day i'm

you know i'm gonna i'm gonna climb on that wrist one day yeah when my mouth that ain't gonna work you gotta do it now is that the same thing with like... I mean, that's the same thing with music. I mean, like, or a song or... Like, oh, I'm sad right now and there's something I want to talk about, but I'll do it one day. That's when I'm happy.

Yeah, no, I mean... But, I mean, it goes back to that concept we were talking about when you think that your record is shit for those two fucking days. It's really weird. The fuck? It's so weird. It's so weird.

It's like a filter, you know, that gets put over the whole thing. Yeah. You know, like I said, it's a shit filter. Just drizzles shit over the whole thing. Like I said, it's a shit filter. Just drizzle shit over the whole thing. It's like, this is so bad. Do you think it's trying to

protect the ego? Or is the ego the reason why we think these songs are crap? I think the ego is the shit filter. It's the thing that is, like, comparing yourself to

other things or other people. You know, like, it's the thing that's, like, that's wondering if you're good enough. If it's, you know, whatever it might be. It's like wondering if you're good enough. It's, you know, whatever it might be. It's like if you're, you know, if you're a drummer and you're listening to other drummers and they can do fills and things that you can't do, you know, you go back to your own thing. You know, you go back to your own thing.

And if you're, like, comparing yourself to that, you know, it can suddenly make you, if you're viewing your own work through the lens of, like, what other people are doing or can do or what you think people think about you, then it can make all your decisions feel wrong, you know, or just not adequate. And, you know, those other days, I think are, you know, on a good day, you're just letting it be what it is, you know? Yeah. I mean, I think so. But is ego healthy?

You need a little bit. Yeah. Or we just be total introverts. Right. I mean, I think you need a little, you know, you need to puff your chest out a little bit here and there. You know, you need to kind of, I think, what, you know, a little bit of that can motivate you.

I think it's no good if you've got none. That's a struggle for me when I'm dealing with people that just... It's like, no, everything is everything. I don't pay any attention to it. You don't pay any attention to fucking anything? Come on. You don't get... I sort of hunger to anything. Come on. You don't get a sort of hunger to compete a little bit.

I think that's healthy. Yeah, I think competitions, I mean, we were born to compete in a sense. It's like, I don't know, are you into sports? Yeah. I mean, I was kind of all over the

place i i was well early on my my uh had asthma so they put me in a pool and i was i swam and um that was challenged me i was pretty bad at on. Why did they put you in the pool if you have asthma? It's like a breathing exercise. Your lung capacity is building. I did that for a while. I played baseball.

I never played organized, but I played basketball too. I grew up in... My dad was a big basketball dude. His dad was a basketball dude. So we were always talking about basketball and playing. I was playing pickup. I mean, talking about lung capacity, when I was swimming, I used to do these ridiculous practices early in the morning

and get out of the pool after two hours, two and a half hours, and call my homies and play some ball. After the practice and then play ball the rest of the day, people were like, yo, that's it. I'm like, let's do one more. I mean, shit, that's one thing I do kind of wish I had back. Because I used to do that shit all day long. Yeah, I used to play such a shit all day.

Yeah. And now, do you think you subs that too with music? I think, you know, I think music kind of took over there and certainly for a long time, like really dominated, just took over my life completely. I thought I like to think that I'm a little more, a little bit more balanced as a person now than I was at that time. You know, but and again, quarantine, man man that's the one thing another another so reliant for me i think was that i had time to you know re-engage in other things you know like you know between touring and you know it's like tour make a record do or make a record, tour, make a record.

It just didn't leave a lot of time for anything else. Sort of like actually have some time to explore something else. So like exercise maybe, or I don't know, sleep more than four hours. Yeah. That might be, that might be cool. Let's, let's try this. You know, let's get it to like six or seven. You know, you'd think that this quarantine would affect people always on the go, but I think it made us realize that there's more to life than just fucking working.

There's more to life than just like being in a fucking routine because we wouldn't be in music if we had a routine we didn't want a routine that's why we did music and all of a sudden we wake up and we're in a fucking routine we're torn we're making now i'm torn making a record it's heavy that's the that's one of those that's one of those many things that nobody mentions to you on the way in the door yeah you know you're, you're like, wait a minute. You got this free life, man. Whatever you want is yours, man.

But you're never going to do it. Ever again. Ever again. You know, can you imagine it? Like, okay, congratulations, man. Like, you're in. You fucking made it. Like, all right.

So just so you know, though, before we get started here, remember the thing that you loved so much, you obsessed with, and constantly did it all the time? Remember that? You're like, yeah, dude. Like, yeah. You're never, ever going to do that again. It's true.

It's like, damn. It's like if they would have told me in the beginning that i would have not been able to like play sports or or go to lake games you know it's like great check please yeah it's compromised but that's life you know it's like you're more happy 80 of the time now because you're doing what you want to do versus if you had all the free time and then you had a shitty job. Right. True. Because this job could be shitty

and it is sometimes. Yeah. Pretty shitty. But at the end, it's like when you take the microscope away and you have those two days of shittiness out of the system. Go get laid or go smoke whatever.

Well, I think the thing about it is the upside so up yeah you know I mean I think it's like again I hate to abuse the surfing analogy but it's like

you know surfers be going out at like the crack of dawn and sitting in the water for like all day long and might not get any. Like they'll be out there sitting on the freaking board for like eight hours straight and maybe get kind of get one. You know, it's like, how was it, man? You're like fucking lame. Like it sucked. But you do it again, you know, and it's like how was it man you're like fucking lame like it sucked but you do it again you know and it's like two days of that but you if you get you might get like one just

magical it's just everything clicks perfect yeah no and that's that's i think probably probably chasing it a little bit but but that's kind of the thing is like you go through all this hard shit you know all the like the work and you're tired and you're everybody's pissing each other off but you know if you have the one like one that one night where like everything clicks it's like enough to keep you going in there like you're willing to you're willing to put up a lot of that stuff because that is so good you know whereas like i don't know i don't know if you like if you're talking to an accountant i don't know if there is an equivalent there, you know what I mean?

Like, I mean, I could be wrong, but no, you're totally right. I mean, is there that day where like all the numbers just, wow, they just lined up. It's so true. Do you think, I think that's why I relate so much with athletes. I mean, it's so true do you think i think that's why i relate so much with athletes i mean they sacrifice their whole life to get that one moment that one percent of people get you know right and that's like us i mean there's billions of people and for or that are musicians or songwriters and for people to skim the fat and eventually they will. Cause you know,

it, whatever it was, whatever that saying is about rising to the top, some shit like that. That's what we're. So we get good enough where we could be in that opportunity. Like we talked about in the vessel thing, talk about service.

That's a great analogy. That's a good book. You should write. you should write. You should write. I stay with that one because it really, that's the thing that fits the most. And I took a lot of abuse in the ocean to get that analogy. So, you know, you won't. Thank you.

I appreciate it. Like, ouch. But you're, so you're, I see you're a big, like, fan. I'm diehard, yeah. Are you, you're from LA? I'm diehard, yeah. You're from LA? I'm from LA, yeah. I grew up in the Valley. Okay, yeah.

Where are you from? The house where I was born in, it was down Cockman Ave, right off to La Brea and Jefferson. Oh, okay. So you were in the city. Yeah. How long did you live there for? I was just a baby until I was about three years old. And then you moved to

Philly or something? To New York, to Queens. Damn, you're a city kid? Yeah. How was that? I'm trying, you know, I've been kind of like trying to work that out ever since, I think. I was laughing with somebody

not too long ago about how I remember saying I'm like really embarrassed of this now, but I used to say people would be like, let's go camping and I'd be like nah man, I hate nature.

I hate nature. who who fucking says people from new york fucking city bro yeah everyone didn't like that but i would check i checked myself i'm like damn i really used to say i hated nature insane how can you hate hate, but I did kind of feel like that in recent years. You know, I've been really trying to like

turn that corner and really, really embrace that more. So, I'm definitely a city kid

and I'm working to like add a little bit of, add a little country boy in there.

I'll tell you, I mean, you're close. You're in Jersey, bud. You're getting closer. It's out here. out it's out here people don't know but it's definitely out here like uh it is it's it's a weird place it's a weird place because it's so

small it is and and it's it's all like close you're close to new york you're close to philly but then there's little pockets that are, you know, very rural. And I've, like, recent years, like, really kind of gravitated more towards that, you know. That's dope, man. Do you feel like you're writing more songs from that mind state? I think it's definitely crept in, you know? Yeah. And I mean,

I was always, you know, I was like mostly a pretty laid back dude. I guess I had a few, two years where like I thought I was going to be like

Angelo Moore. Oh, word? You were like punk rock like that? I was super, yeah, I was super like

fishbone and bad brains and all that, you know? I was definitely up on that stuff and I mean, I still love that stuff, but yeah, like I guess like fishbone and bad brains and all that. You know, I was definitely up on that stuff. And I mean, I still love that stuff. But yeah, like I guess like those kind of teen years, I was like, you know, trying to like shade the sides of my head and locks on the top. Oh, you went full fishbone.

Yeah, I was really I was really on on it man i mean uh i bumped into that dude a couple times when i was uh when i was young it was like wow like that was that was dude the energy you know like just unreal but but but i think more than that even was was I really took notes on like how they they just didn't care about like taking different styles like they just were like yeah taking all these different styles and kind of Frankenstein up together in a way that really appealed to me like that's kind of how i think i felt growing up because i had i had all this like west coast influence and then i was in new york and i was in jersey and like you know a lot of like shit that i was into west coast stuff like people on the east coast

weren't into it you know and uh so i always felt like a little bit fish out of water all the time and um so looking at those dudes like it's kind of like a like they're they're a group that's like yeah i'm gonna fucking fish out of water fuck you you know like fish belong out of water bitch like what you know like look you know it's just like that that, you know. So like even though my music doesn't necessarily reflect or doesn't have that same sound or mood, but like the attitude behind it is this, there's a little bit of that behind it for me. It's just like, yeah, I don't care.

I don't care if you're not supposed to mix these things together. I'm doing it, you know. Yeah, I hear that. It's kind of like a melting your music is very melting pot it's like you could hear all these different genres but it's you you know I've studied

a lot of my friends are you know sucker D dog and they love your ass dude and I'm like it's fucking awesome and like people I look up to so like they have the same type of brain where they understand what you're doing. And you know, you're not alone in that.

Let's go, Aaron. Hold on, where is this? Let's go. I'll give you a clap. Let's go, big dog. Let's get this shit. Man, it's been so great talking to you, Aaron. Yeah, man, likewise.

And like we were almost close to going on a tour together. I know. What the fuck? Let's do this. Let's do it. I'm down. Yeah. We're back.

You got anything coming up? I got a little couple nibbles here and there. It's weird. Now everybody's going full tilt. It's kind of funny because some of the shit that I had on the books was like very kind of like testing the waters. Yeah. Like some first few days are very like, well, it's going to be, you know, really distant. And it's going to be very polite and people will be far away.

It's going to be a little weird. But so I got a couple of joints like next week. I'm doing up in New Hampshire, Portsmouth, and Pittsburgh. Then I got a couple more in July like that. Full on. I think it's full on in September.

We're making the rounds. A little bit on both coasts in Texas and all that. Well, let's get talks back of us rocking together again dudes let's i'm about it man let's do it yeah man well it's nice uh meeting you officially and i'll get your number let's uh let's shoot the shit dude and uh you know i'm always down to fucking talk shit you know i'm in yeah that's what it's all about man

that's one of the upsides too man music people are the best people to me you know, man. Yeah, that's what it's all about, man. That's one of the upsides too, man. Music people are the best people to me, you know, like it's just really comfortable in everybody. It's always, it's just the most, the most like dynamic and interesting people that I know, you know,

like, it's, you know, where you get, you know, when you get to like, it gets harder. I talk to anyone.

I know, dude. Like people just don't get, like, there's no, it's the range, I think is what it is to me. It's the range, I think, is what it is to me. I feel like with music people, you can literally say anything.

And they never take it too serious. It's like, okay, I can understand. I can vibe with that. Some shit, be around people I grew up with. I love them to death. They'll be'll be talking we're talking i'm like give me something

give me fucking something what the fuck are you are you serious like come on and like you know just to try i don't just i mean just try let me just throw throw a grenade in there. And then now everybody's looking at me like, like, what? Like, you're joking, right? I'm like, kind of. I don't know. Yeah. Does it seem that weird? Like, it seems weird?

Yeah, I'm joking. Yeah. It's like, good to know that we're going. But that's the thing, too. Like, having friends from forever, where you guys are buddies, dude. You know, you're in a square box together. Nothing else exists.

Then you realize there's something a little more than that. And then you're like, come back to these friends. Like, Oh, that guy actually doesn't like Jews. I was like, I don't know what happened there, but you know what I'm saying? Or, you know, when, you know, you left the box and your friends are like. Still in it. Still, yeah. You're still, still in it?

Yeah. You don't want to like, you know. Yeah. Jump out of that box? No. Yeah. It's so funny. It's like some people are just comfortable just staying in that little box, that little town forever.

You know? Yeah. We're not like that. We are fucking animals. I'm going to play the fucking Eye of the Tiger music right here. Because Aaron, you're going to fuck shit up out here. You're going to fuck everything up.

Let's fucking get this. That's right. Good talking to you, buddy. Like Logan Paul. Dude, what the fuck? I can't believe it. Donald Trump was our president. The rock's going to be our president.

Logan Paul is going to fight. Let's do that. What is going on with our society, man? It is falling apart. Yeah. That's why they need people like us to talk that shit. That's right.

Well, that's right. Let's talk. We're holding it together, man. Maybe not internally, but for everyone. Yeah, right. No, that's right well that's right let's talk that shit we're holding it together man we're holding it together maybe not internally but

for everyone yeah right no not personally at all like everything but we will figure it out yeah we got we got you we got you

we got you yeah they don't got us nobody got our back we got them we got them well that's that's the burden

we're gonna have to hold for just saying yes to Jonas in Sweden on the interview. Right, exactly. Yeah. I love that. I love that you had to wear glasses and I guarantee you the fluorescent light. And you can see, of course, you see the light in the glasses the whole time.

But she was like, but the reflection? I was like, I don't care. I don't care. This is what we're doing. Well, good seeing you, buddy. And let's stay in touch. You're a good guy. And I can't wait.

Look forward to it, man. Hey, man. Have a great night. You too. Later, buddy. All right. There you go. Sun Little.

Wow. That was fun. I love his music, and I love his vibe on life, you know? No bullshit. I like that. All right. Catch you on the tail end. Two episodes in one.

Only the best for the podcast fans. All right. That's it. What else is going on? We're doing Backwoods Fest on Thursday. We're doing Hot August Festival in Cockeysville, Maryland on Saturday the 28th. Dewey Beach, Starboard. I'm excited for that one.

I think that one's free too. Then I'm going back to Day Drinking in Charleston, Isle of Palm, South Carolina, September 31st. Or no, August 31st. I can't think today. And September 1st, Charlotte, North Carolina. And then Bonnaroo, baby. I'm going to pump myself up. Let's go.

Bonnaroo, Frasco. Big show. You got to fucking stay strong. Don't do nitrous. And fucking give them a show. Hell yeah. One of the biggest shows I've ever had in my life. Playing late night on Thursday. don't do nitrous and fucking give them a show hell yeah one of the biggest shows I've ever had in my life playing late night on Thursday

and then we're doing Framley Fest on the 4th so go grab your tickets it's the last shows of the summer tour until we hit the fall tour yes that's next week I'm still on the road I'm on the road for 3 and a half months

so get used to touring Frasco via podcast, you know, a little hungover at times, but here to give you the goodness. So ladies and gentlemen, have a safe week. Stay strong out there. Corona is running rapid in the streets. Just stay safe and take care of one each other. Stop fighting with one each other. It feels like everyone is divided between ideas.

Let's take a step back and realize, you know what? It's going to be okay. They got their own opinions. We got ours. And if there's haters out there, tell them to suck your dick from the back because we ain't putting them up with that bullshit. You hear me? Be authentic to who you want to be and love yourself more because you deserve it.

All right. I love you. I'll see you next week. You tuned in to the WorldSafe Podcast with Andy Fresco now in its fourth season. Thank you for listening to this episode produced by Andy Fresco,

Joe Angelo and Chris Lawrence. We need you to help us save the world and spread the word. Please subscribe, rate the show, give us those crazy stars, iTunes, Spotify, wherever you're picking this shit up. Follow us on Instagram at world saving podcast for more info and updates. Fresco's blogs and tour dates you'll find at andyfresco.com.

And check our socials to see what's up next. Might be a video dance party, a showcase concert, that crazy shit show, or whatever springs to Andy's wicked brain. And after a year of keeping clean and playing safe, the band is back on tour. We thank our brand new talent book on Mara Davis. We thank this week's guests, our co-hosts, and all the fringy frenzies that helped make this show great. Thank you all. And thank you for listening.

Be your best, be safe safe and we will be back next week no animals were harmed in the making of this podcast as far as we know any similarity instructional knowledge facts or fake is purely coincidental