Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 153: Steven Van Zandt

Episode Date: December 28, 2021

No better way to start your day than with our very own podcast bard, Shawn Eckels, recapping the highlights of this year thru the highest of art forms: song parody. And we got you on a DOOZY of a finale to close out season 4; cuz on the Interview Hour, we welcome a living legend of stage and screen: Steven Van Zandt! Little Steven walks us thru his upbringing, how he discovered rock, and generally spends an hour being iconic all for our benefit. Andy and Nick update us with future talk. This is EP 153. Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out Andy's new song, "Friends (A Song About Friends)" on iTunes, Spotify  Sprinkle some Little Stevie on your new year: littlesteven.com Produced by Andy Frasco Joe Angelhow Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Shawn Eckels Arno Bakker

Now, a message from the UN. Told some dick jokes. We've told quite a few. Song about drugs and rock and roll life. You know that it's true. But this isn't that song. I'm giving some props. Who knew he could interview That many rock stars

And even Tony Hawk And Melissa Edwards Dan Bence And Mark Reischner Here's to the podcast My friends Four fucking seasons in the bag

153 episodes here's to the podcast Andy Frasco's an interviewer he shares all his feelings with the world. Congratulations, World Saving Podcast.

All right. Hey, and we're back andy frasco's world saving podcast season finale so we're like in between christmas and new year's here right now right now it is three days before new year's eve the sweet spot how you feeling it's always like feels like i'm okay it feels like you have the whole week off you know when you like that week between Christmas and New Year's, no one's really working. Even if they're at work, everyone, all the industry, we talked about it briefly a couple of weeks ago,

but all the industry finally closed down. No one's answering any phone calls. Yeah. Which is, you know, pretty much standard for me, but you know, for you,

not me, I'm fucking, I want my people to be working day in and day night. What about Schwartz? He'll answer my phone calls. He doesn't want to. You guys have a different relationship than other people and their managers, though. Yeah, he works all day, every day like me.

He's like, everyone else is like, you call me, we can work every day. But don't hit up my team. Really? Yeah. Like who? Like, don't hit up Rachel. Don't hit up Bonjorno. Don't be neurotic.

Don't hit up Bonjorno. Your agent doesn't need to be... You don't need to talk to your agent that much. I love talking to John. I got to see him. Well, he's cool. I'm just saying, like, he's got stuff to do. You know what I mean?

And everyone needs a break. Like, agents have a lot more clients than managers, too. Not us, though. Right, Nick? We don't need a break. We're talking into microphones. I need a break. No, I'm just kidding.

I can't believe it. You've been with me basically every episode for season four. I know. I'm the break. No, I'm just kidding. I can't believe it. You've been with me basically every episode for season four. I know. I'm the co-host. You are. I've established dominance.

Many people have come after my job right in front of my face. Guys, if you're going to try to be the co-host of the podcast, that's fine. I don't have any ownership

of this. Don't do it right in front. Actually, do it right in front of me. Actually, give that more respect. In a way. Let's go. But you lost, didn't you?

There's a couple people pissed off that you're my co-host. Why? Because they just want to be the co-host. I'm funnier than they are and more interesting. You are. And you're my best friend. Also, they wouldn't be able to put up with you the way I do. You're actually getting better as a co-host, too.

We used to just talk about you. Now you ask me questions. We b getting better as a co-host too. You, we used to just talk about you. Now you ask me questions. We ping bong, we ping bong with Joe Biden, you know what I mean? Joe Biden. Uh, well, you know, it takes a little time. What did we learn? Let's, let's do a little, it's been a year. How many have I done? I'm trying to, when was the first one I did? I think you did it. You've done about 30 of them. I think the first one was definitely during the pandemic. Pandemic. But it was, I don't even remember how it happened.

That's how weird it, how organic it was. Yeah. A bunch of people told you I should do it or something, right? Yeah. How'd that happen? When I moved to Denver, everyone was like. You were looking for a. Fuck hanging out with anyone else.

You should hang out with Nick Gerlach. Are you serious? I swear to God. That's so funny. He's like, you guys are simpatico. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah. I'm like, why, why? And now I know why. Cause he's actually funny. Cause you know, every musician wants to be funny.

The only funny guy in the jam scene. No, Benny Bloom's funny. Benny Bloom is funny. Different kind of funny. We've been over that though. Different kind of funny. I don't remember.

I can't remember the first one I did. I can't remember either. Fuck. And then a lot of things have happened in a year. Kind of. We went on tour together. We went on a whole tour. We did a whole TV show, talk show.

We did a whole talk show. It was definitely before that. So maybe it's been over a year. It's definitely been over a year. It's like a year and a half. Yeah, because we were doing that last December. Yeah. Like this time last year.

What did we learn about ourselves? I don't know. I don't think I learned anything about myself. I think I just was right. I think I learned I was right. I'm funny. I'm engaging. Good to work with on time.

Still looking for an agent, guys. Oh, you're such a narcissist. I love it. I'm actually not. That's the funny thing is I'm not. I know you're not. I just think I'm funny and engaging. You are.

And the fans have spoken. Yeah, the fans like me. They like you. They like you. I like you, everybody, that try to take my job. But I don't care if you have another co-host sometimes. We got season five coming up.

I've already been slamming podcasts. I know. We got some heaters coming up. We do. Yo, next week. Frederick Prince. Frederick Prince. Oh, yeah.

We got Freddie Prince Jr. Frederick Prince. We got a lot of... He's had a crazy story. Crazy. I didn't know he was such a big wrestling fan. Did you talk about his dad at all? Yes. That's what we talked... Thank you for briefing me on that. Oh, he's had a crazy story. Crazy. I didn't know he was such a big wrestling fan. Did you talk about his dad at all?

Yes. That's what we taught. Thank you for briefing me on that. Oh yeah. You guys don't know this. I'm also the researcher sometimes. Yeah. Yeah.

You and Joe. But like when I, um, yeah, Joe, I didn't know that. Yes. I knew that because he died very young.

He killed himself. He was a big comedian. He killed himself. Yeah. He was a huge star that started out as a comedian that was going to be like hosting, maybe host the tonight show someday or some shit. Like he was a huge star. Dude, he shot himself.

I think it was in like in front of his manager. I don't know. Um, what you should watch though, if you, I don't know if you have showtime. I do. There's a new comedy store documentary. It's like four episodes. It's about her. She's been dead for a while, but it's like all the comedians.

It's so good. And they talk about him for a while on but it's like all the comedians. It's so good. And they talk about him for a while on it. I got to check it out. It's so, it's one of the best things I watched this year. Dude, I can't believe we've already done 153 episodes. Damn.

Who's your first episode? Marcus King. That's a good first episode actually. Yeah. He wasn't probably as famous then. He was just starting to pop. Who are some, who's your first episode that got a lot of download

where you're like, damn, this is kind of popping? Dave Schools was pretty good. Or David Shaw. Because those Panic fans, they're loyal. They'll check out anything. The David Shaw one was the first one people considered me a good interviewer. Didn't he get real deep? He tried to get raped.

Oh, man. He was what? Like in a party drinking scenario kind of thing yeah and someone drugged him and like

his bandmate found him naked in his room damn and like saw that guy trying to like get after him and his bandmate

was like get the fuck out of here really think about that shit that's fucked yeah and for him to be opened up

shout out to David Shaw we miss you buddy god damn that takes balls to tell that story yeah guess who's coming in town next week shit. That's fucked. Yeah. And for him to be opened up, shout out to David Shaw. We miss you, buddy. God damn. That takes balls to tell that story. Yeah. Guess who's coming in town next week? Rappaport.

Oh yeah. You want to come? I got tickets. Yeah. Where's he playing? I think he's going to stay at my house. Comedy store? He's playing the comedy. He's going to stay at your house?

Yeah. It's going to be so loud in here. Michael Rappaport at the Frasco house. Two crazy, crazy guys. I know. I love it. But yeah, we got a couple. Next week, we're doing an episode. We're going to do the award ceremony. Yeah, we're going to do the fall tour awards.

Yeah. Well, we're going to... Okay, this is your job. I made an award show. What are we doing? I made an award show. I made 16 categories of different awards for the fall tour. Sort of categories of different awards for the fall tour. Different sort of like the Oscars for the fall tour. Really?

Golden Globes. The Goldner Globes. The Goldest Globes. That's what it's called? Let's call them the Golden Globes 2. All right. So basically, it's just different things I thought of. Some of them are funny.

Some of them are just awards like Best Green Room. Top 10 shows. I picked my... But we might have to hash that one out together because our top 10 shows might be different. Yeah. You know who's on the show this week? Stevie Van Zandt. Oh, yes.

He told your... East Street Band. He told your booker that it's the best interview he's ever done. Yeah. I saw that on Twitter. Dude. Really? Yeah, he did.

She posted that. Yeah, Mars the shit. Yeah, I can't believe we got... Dude, did you know, he did. She posted that. Yeah. Mars the shit. Yeah. I can't believe we got, dude, did you know he was in Sopranos? Yeah. I never watched Sopranos really. I watched the first season, but in what? Lilyhammer. Remember that show? I don't actually. Another like a mafia movie. Oh, I thought it'd be about the 1996 winter Olympics or whatever. But he was saying that the, the, the guy who created Sopranos wanted Stevie to be Tony Soprano. What? And they gave him the gig and he saw James Gandolfini in the audition

and Stevie said, actually, give it to Gandolfini. I mean, yeah. I didn't know if he was an actor. Was he an actor first or a musician first? He was a musician, E Street Band. That's what I thought, but I didn't know. So how do you get into acting?

He just wanted to do it. So crazy. It's so crazy. I gotta watch Sopranos. Everybody loves it. I love this interview, dude. He crazy. It's so crazy. I got to watch the pre-order. Everybody loves this interview, dude. He hypes me up. He tells me I shouldn't be playing every night.

He should, he said you should play every other night. So you have better quality of life. Yeah. But I mean, okay, man, it's easy to say,

I don't know. I don't know. I was like, please. I was like, tell my manager this right now. So he did. Yeah.

But his band sells like 70,000 tickets every show so it's like yeah yeah i guess it's a little easier i don't know but i feel like you need to go to like three on four off three none of this nine shows in 11 days shit you know what i mean that was the hardest part of the fall at the end of that run we were just like oh especially during covid that was from like new orleans through cleveland that was that run yeah it was tough and like some of the shows are kind of old getting like not a great turnout and they're just like fighting through it and it's

got cold and then there was big shows and like you're so burnt out by show five like and all of a sudden show five like sold out. Yeah, but you're like god damn it. I don't want to get a fucking get it. It's like cold in your Pittsburgh and it's like a Eastern European dance hall. Yep, exactly.

That was a good time though. I'm glad we did it. Now we have something to look back on. Do you believe in New Year's resolutions? I never do them, but what do you mean? I think they exist. Like, do you... I believe in them, yeah. But do you give yourself resolutions?

No, no. I don't usually do that. Why not? I don't know. No specific reason. I feel like they usually fall apart anyway. I'm going to try to quit smoking cigarettes. That's a good one. If you need that to do something, that's fine. You can make a resolution in March if you want. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But some people need

the symbolic... I'm not anti them or anything. I've just never thought to do it, I guess. Do you ever just like look at yourself and... Yeah, I look at myself you ever just like look at yourself and yeah, I look at myself sometimes just like think about things that you're not good at and try to get better at. Yeah. But it's so hard.

Like once you're like middle age, it's like, you kind of know what you're going to not be good at. Like I'm never going to be a good cook. I'm never going to be good at it. You know what I mean? Right. I've tried a little bit.

It's not fun. I don't like it. I'm not even that into food. Right. So it's like, how am I going to be, you know what I mean? Yeah, I've tried a little bit. It's not fun. I don't like it. I'm not even that into food. Right. So it's like, how am I going to be, you know what I mean? Yeah, I get that. It's like, do you know anybody that's like a good music composer and they like don't like music?

You're right. It's like the same thing. What about, I mean, why, what are you trying to get good at? I'm trying to get good, better at, better at piano. I want to start ripping. Yeah. You're going to have to practice. I want to start ripping. Yeah. You're going to have to practice. I know I don't practice.

So funny. Cause there's a piano right over there. I know. And I look at it and I'm just like, sometimes I feel like you're better at bass than you are a piano. I was thinking that the other day during the show, you were playing some blues thing. I was like, damn, that's pretty good.

God, Nick. Thanks buddy. No, you're just bad at piano. Well, the way you treat your piano is terrible. I like how you're like these fucking pianos break all the time. Like, yeah, because they're not made to be part of the foundation of your, like the step stool to the top of your organ. They're not.

You're like walking on. I get so pissed off when I got to buy a new keyboard every year. Yeah, but you like also walk on them. Yeah, I know. And jump beer on them. Why don't they just make them better? They're pretty fucking good, man. It's like not everybody's dumping beer and walking on them with their gross feet.

I mean, come on. Do you think my piano has staph infection? No. I don't think a piano can get staph infection. But you can't really get mad at these piano companies. I know. You need a different way to get up to the thing. I know.

Aren't you having something built? I'm getting a new party machine built. Who's building it? These guys in Omaha, Nebraska. Is it going to be like smaller? Smaller, less weight. Carbon fiber? Sounds expensive.

V6. Is carbon fiber expensive? I have no clue. Do you think I've ever bought carbon fiber in my life? What even is carbon fiber? You got any shows coming up for the new year? What are you doing? January have no. Do you think I've ever bought carbon fiber in my life? What even is carbon fiber? You got any shows coming up for the new year? What are you doing? January 22nd. Me and men are doing the lyric in Fort Collins.

Oh shit. And then I got January 21 dance party dance part. We're both doing our DJ thing, except mine. I was like a music. I wrote stuff like that. Fuck up Nick. Remember he used to hate DJs. All he was hit space bar anyway, Andy January remember he used to hate djs all he was hit space bar anyway andy uh

january 21st at cervantes he'll be playing 80s hits and dancing on stage don't worry they're streaming it too it's actually the fact that you're streaming it makes it better not worse yeah because you were just doing that show i would be kind of like okay douche yeah but since it's like a stream too and you're just like all right you can come hang out that's one thing yeah well are you gonna miss me when we're gonna see each other any every day i feel like what about your new year's run uh it's been it was yeah this weekend oh shit it is uh there we go we're playing and god you're so good on good bro all right uh guys tuesday that's today We're playing Greensboro, North Carolina. Blind Tiger.

Blind Tiger. God, you're not even playing these shows and you know these dates. I have a photographic memory. You don't know that about me? I fucking love you. It's crazy how good my memory is, actually. It really is.

Yeah, it's a weird thing in my life. I used to creep girls out. Really? Yeah, because I'd like to remember something about them and they'd think I was like... You know what I mean? Something very mundane that you shouldn't remember and they're like the fuck's like oh god i'm not creep i just like remember everything i see well thank you not really photographic it's just good it's just good

um 29th savannah georgia bam never been there haunted it is haunted it's a pretty city i've heard that yeah really beautiful still georgia it got that, uh, Spanish moss. I love that kind of, uh, that whole scene. Yep. And then, um, Charleston on the 30th shows almost sold out. Pretty stoked on that. Interesting.

Right. John. Yeah. Thank you, John. Um, thank you, Charleston,

actually for getting us another show. This is our fourth time. I feel like you go there every three months and they go like sell that every time. I know. I can't believe I'm like, I always, when, when the show,

you're never going to sell more than 600 tickets there because you just go there for four months, but you're going to sell 600 every time. I know. I can't believe I'm like, I always when the show gets off. You're never going to sell more than 600 tickets there because you just go there for four months, but you're going to sell 600 tickets every time. I know. It's so weird. Like, I always worry. I'm like, oh God, I'm oversaturating the market, playing here too much, and they keep showing up. So shout out to Charleston. Tough to saturate Charleston though. People come and go there so much. My people. It's like a, you know.

And then New Year's Eve. The beautiful city of Sanford, Florida. Never. We've only sold like a couple hundred tickets. I'm worried about that one. A couple hundred is okay. Yeah, but New Year's Eve, all New Year's Eve shows should be sold out.

It shouldn't be the smallest show of the fucking tour. New Year's is weird like that. So weird. Also, I don't, you know, I'm not going to talk shit about New Year's Eve shows, but they're kind of bullshit. I don't like them that much. Yeah. It's like people are expecting

because they're charging more now. Yeah. Now they're expecting some fucking spectacular. It's the end of the year. You're fucking burnt. Yeah. It's these jam band fans because their band's always like,

you know, fish always like, you know, write some book or fucking, yeah, we're a different band this year and we wrote a book

and it's all lower and it's 900 pages and that's what we're doing tonight. We're the band from that. Oh, I know. It's,

it's a lot of stress. It's stressful. Yeah. And then it's always a letdown. Here's almost, here's Eve is almost consistently a huge letdown,

right? It's like, you know, it's like the same philosophy of like, it's amateur hour. Don't be driving. St. Patrick's Day. Yeah. New Year's Eve.

Valentine's Day. I'm like, every day is a fucking party in my life. I don't need to have a specific reason to fucking party. I party every night. Yeah. Also, it's just not fun. Anyway, come out to our show, New Year's Eve. Come on out, Sanford. And then it finally starts our holidays.

I mean, I'm only playing weekends, so you're going to get sick of me. No, I'm ready to make some shit. Let's make some shit. Yeah, we're going to make the podcast into a video concept. We're going to do that. We're going to do our side podcast. We're going to set up the Patreon

so people can start giving us money. We're going to start that for the next season. You think people will sign up for the Patreon? I definitely don't think they're going to if we don't make it. I just don't want to feel like a fucking idiot. Why? They still get this for free. They're getting the podcast on Tuesdays for free,

but all the other stuff, are we oversaturating with the Patreon? Well, if they don't want it, they don't have to sign up. But if no one signs up, I'll still make it. I don't give a fuck. You might have to make it. You got to make it good, then they'll have to sign up. But if no one signs up, I'll still make it. I don't give a fuck. You might have to make it. You got to make it good. Then they'll want to sign up.

You know what I mean? Yeah, you're right. I don't think it'll be that expensive that where people, five bucks a month, I feel like it's worth it for four episodes of a podcast.

Right. Totally worth it. Right. Even if you only listen to like half of them, it's still worth it. You got a point. Yeah.

Well, here it is. The season it. You got a point. Yeah. Well, here it is. The season finale. It's all over, buddy. We did it. Another season. I kept my job for a whole year.

You look sad. No, I'm a little high. Maybe you said, no, I'm good in a good mood. I'm going to Chicago. Yeah.

It's chill. I slept good. Maybe that's why. Right. Feel good though. Feel good. Have you, uh,

everyone's getting COVID. Everyone's dropping like flies. I don good. Maybe that's why. I feel good though. Everyone's getting COVID. Everyone's dropping like flies. I don't have it. I think we just built up immunity on tour from it or something. Yeah, probably. I was exposed to it a bunch. I never got it. Really? Well, Pete's got it, which means we're around people that had it.

True. I think Floyd had it. You do? I don't know. He said he kept on taking negative tests, but when I was kissing him on the mouth, I could taste it. You do? I don't know. He said he was, he kept on taking negative tests, but I could, you know, when I was kissing him on the mouth, I could taste this a couple months ago.

Oh, not like the last two weeks. No. I mean, you guys got tested hard in Mexico, all that stuff, but Jason got it. Remember Jason got on break,

but he must've been around. He had to have gotten it somewhere, but I was around him. It's true. Weird. Fucking weird, dude. I don't know what to do. I think some people are immune to it.

Do you think we're just going to be used? This is how it's going to be every winter? Well, eventually it's going to get the virus, you know, in theory. I'm not a goddamn anything, okay? I don't know anything, but precedent says that usually as viruses get more contagious like this, they get, they're not as strong because that's how they are more contagious. They last longer because they're not, you know what I mean?

Yeah. If they, if they're too strong and they kill you, they can't spread to the next person. You're right. Yeah. And that's not, well,

that's kind of optimism from you. Yeah. I'm impressed. Let's go. It's just science. It's just rational thinking based on precedent. All right, bud,

let's go listen to Stevie Van Zandt. I'm kind of excited for this. He's fucking awesome, dude. This is one of the best interviews I've ever done. I'm not just saying that. I know I say that. He's had a long,

well, I'm interested in his life before he was in the E Street band. Bro, E Street band? Like how long was he a musician before Bruce Springsteen? They met each other when they were 15. Oh, it's like that?

Yeah, dude. Oh, I thought he was like Bruce Springsteen got famous and then hired these guys. No. Like Billy Joel or something. No. They're like, he's like in the band.

He's like his best bud. It's like Ernie. Yeah, it's like Ernie. Not like me when I'm a side man. I thought it was like me when I'm a side man for someone. No, no, no, no. It's like Ernie with you. This is like squad squad.

This is squad shit. Okay. Yeah. So he's from New Jersey, all that. Yeah. And they had Tiff. I asked if they ever beat the shit out of each other. I'm sure.

Dude, I bet. Being on the road that much. Those guys are they had Tiff. I asked if they ever beat the shit out of each other. I'm sure. Dude, I bet. Being on the road that much. Those guys are on the road heavy. Did they party? Yeah, he said they party. I feel like Bruce Springsteen was never known. Did you see he sold his... He said he never got into Coke, really.

This is after the interview. Did you see this fucking thing where Bruce Springsteen sold his entire catalog? Yeah. To Sony for $500 million? That's crazy. Man. Well, even Stevie's got a radio station, Outlaw Radio on Sirius. It's crazy. Man. Well, even Steve, he's got a radio station,

Outlaw Radio on Sirius. That's his too. That's cool. He owns it? Yeah. And he has like music lessons he does. He's just like really full round and he's like kind of like a...

Not that old. Is he 65 maybe? Probably 65. Yeah. Yeah. All right, guys. Do you want to pump everyone up for the New Year's?

No, you can do it okay i've done it last eight times guys 2022 what do you want to be remembered by you want to follow your fucking dreams or you want to be a fucking pod in the game i don't i want to be original i want to be individual and i want to make sure that I'm doing everything I can to stay happy every day. And I hope you do too, because life's short. You never know what's going to happen. You never know what's going to happen. You could get the COVID and it could really fuck you up.

You could get cancer. God, this is actually really depressing. I don't even want to talk. You could, you know, you don't know when you win the lottery. You could win the lottery. You could get a blow job. A lot of things can happen. A lot of things can,

including good. That's true. And if you are going to be a pawn, be the best pawn you can be. Yeah. Yeah. Just be happy. The world needs pawns to live in the moment.

Be happy. This is going to be a great year for all of us. We've been in this fucking COVID bullshit for two years now. I'll be Queens like Andy. Can't all be Queens like Andy, but you could be a King. You could be a princess or a rook or a rook, a knight or a bishop. Chess baby. Enjoy this little Stevie interview. And guess what? I love you, Nick. This is the last episode. You're going to tell me this? I already did it once. That's it. That's all you get. All right. Enjoy little Stevie.

And I'll say it again when a thousand people sign up for the Patreon. You guys start paying my bills. I'll say I love you to Andy every week. Okay. Goodbye. Um, enjoy little Stevie and have a great, uh, couple of weeks off. We're probably going to do the award ceremony here. Hell yeah. And yeah. You want to close this out with me though? Hell yeah.

Wow. Wow. All right. Next up on the interview hour, we have little Stevie Van Zandt from the E Street Band. God damn it. Bruce Springsteen the e street band and he's an actor on sopranos and lily hammer i mean this guy's done it all yo um chris play

some e street band if we don't get sued or just uh play some of his his solo band he talked about it all he gave me advice about how I could stay in this touring business. E Street Band, they gigged. They were touring forever. And he talks about quality of life. And he talks about acting. And this guy's done it all. It's the perfect interview to end Season 4.

So, ladies and gentlemen, enjoy Little Stevie Banzai. You are young. We are the civilized. You are young We are the civilized They always told me Religion is organized I was told I found it more honest Exploring the darkness

Cause Jesus never wore No South African gold Look around, baby We're desperate, divided All calling God By different names Kneeling and praising While we poison his garden I'm born again, sadly

And I can't play again Wow, you're the legend on the fucking show today What's up, dude? How you doing, baby? What's going on? How's it going out there? Man, it's going good, you know Just lots of zooming I know, I bet

How is it like that? It's like you're a person who's been on the road forever and like how is the transition of doing interviews through zoom versus being one-on-one with somebody well i gotta tell you the truth i mean you get a lot a lot more done this way you know i must say you know you can do you can do four or five interviews at the time it used to take to take one you know you know instead of doing one you can go into going to some location and and all that you know you can get four interviews done so it's kind of convenient that way you know i've gotten used to it you at home i'm home here in my kitchen yeah oh this is sick dude the house is sick i mean this is legend

i want to talk let's i want to we got i want to get into it um let me know i want to know what what was like growing up in jersey and like well how was your life as a kid how was like your family situation um i was born in boston so the first seven years i was there and uh uh, I don't remember too much, but, uh, you know, I talk about it in the book a little bit that, that my grandfather would take me to the, um, Italian section. And, you know, cause, um, I I'm Italian blood, you know, and my, my mother remarried when I was seven and, uh, my father adopted me.

So that's how I got the Dutch name. So we were once my mother divorced my father, who I never I never knew. We moved in with her parents, you know, so my grandparents and I was the first grandchild. So, you know, I got grandparents and aunts and uncles all over the place. And it was really a lot of love, you know, a lot of love. grandparents and aunts and uncles all over the place. And, um, it was really a lot of love, you know, a lot of love. And, and so I didn't, it's supposed to be like traumatic if your parents get divorced, but I didn't feel it at all, you know, and, uh, quite the, quite the contrary. In fact, I probably got more love, you know, being with the grandparents, being the first grandchild in the Italian

families, you know, a big deal. It's like the second coming, you know, being with the grandparents, being the first grandchild in an Italian family is, you know. A big deal. It's like the second coming, you know. Yeah, totally. And so, you know, you know, so I just have, you know, pleasant memories and then moving to Jersey, you know, you know, in the suburbs, you know, my father had a kind of a executive construction gig, you know, and he was like an inspector going around to different construction sites. And I mean, in those days,

mothers only worked if they wanted to. They didn't have to, you know, because there was a middle class and we were in it. And and, you know, I mean, the conversation at the dinner table was not if, but when we were going to the four day work week, that that's how rich the country was at that time. No shit. I mean, in the 60s. Yeah, man, that's we know. And the difference, the big difference is the currency had value. You know, it's just something that nobody really talks about anymore. Yeah. You know, but that's that's the big difference. The difference was the currency had value. And, you know, you got a lot of bang for the buck, you know. And so most of the mothers in the neighborhood didn't work.

You know, they would just they would just be home with the kids. And, you know, and so it was, you know, it was an early suburban development. They just started doing that. And, you know, so we had like a development of, I don't know, how many, 5, 10, 15, 20, maybe 25, 30 houses. You know, a little bit of land, you know. And a big park behind the development where all the kids would go to play. You know, a park with a baseball diamond. Middle class? Or was it more of a poor community?

No, this is middle class. You know, it's pretty solidly middle class, you know, and, you know, it was, it was as pleasant as could be. I just never really liked being a kid, you know, just, just, I don't know. I just kind of felt like I want to get on with it. You know, I want to grow up and see what I'm going to do and see what I'm going to be and get to it. You know? Yeah. Who was your early inspirations as a kid to want you to feel like you wanted to grow up faster than other kids?

I don't know where that came from exactly. You know, there was nothing that was suggesting that, you know. I mean, I like the same, you know, TV shows suggesting that, you know, I mean, I like the same, you know, TV shows, everybody like, you know, in those days, but, but I don't know if this was, I mean, I had an impatience even, even then, you know, and I kind of like felt like adults, you know, they had all the secrets of the universe, you know, they,

they were keeping the secrets from us kids. You know what I mean? Right. Like, you know, we weren't getting the real story. You know, I felt like that from the very beginning. What was the first story you felt like you're being lied to about? It wasn't so much lies as as sort of uh withholding information so so very early on i got into religion quite deeply uh i think because of that i thought you know that's maybe where the secrets are you know in the religion so uh born a catholic and and then converted you know with my new father to, you know, Protestant Baptist, you know, and and I was very religious, you know, very religious right up until that got replaced by rock and roll, which was when I was about 13.

At which point, you know, rock and roll became my religion. But but up until then i was very i was very religious you know it's yeah so it was it the guilt that kept you in the religion like you talk about this like italian guilt this catholic guilt no no i didn't have any of that um i didn't really feel that um I know people talk about that, but I didn't really have a Catholic consciousness. You know, it was more of a, it was more like show business, you know?

And I mean, that is the original show business. The Catholic church, man. You know, I mean, they just, they had all the rituals and they got all of the trappings and they got the you know the cathedral thing and and all of the all of the you know controversies they got they you know i mean i i ended up studying religion just for fun as a hobby you know and and uh they're you know they're number one with with nobody second as far as being the most interesting religion. I mean, they just.

No doubt. They just got it. They just got it all, man. You know, so it was kind of like just, you know, I don't remember too much of those early church services when I was a Catholic. It's just kind of like just colorful. And, you know, the music, you know, the music. I always liked church music, I must say. Yeah.

You know, whether it was Bach or whoever it was but then you go to Baptist Protestant which is the opposite of Black Baptist White Baptist is the most

boring I mean I spent some time in some black churches and it's like it's a rock concert the white Baptist is the opposite I don't know why they're both called

Baptist but it's like missionary sex all the time if that if that it was it's like very if that, you know, it was, you know, it was just like very, very quiet. And, you know, and so anyway, I don't know. So I didn't have any guilt. But in the end, you know, like I say, I was looking for answers.

I wanted some answers. I want I want I want to be the guy who knows, you know, I want to be the guy who knows you know i want to be the guy who you know who knows what's going on and uh i always felt that you know when i was a kid i don't know why i really don't know no reason but just felt like you know i want to know what's happening and get into it and you know find my thing whatever it's going to be you know so and then at 13 you found your thing, right? Rock and roll. Yeah. Big time. So what, give me that moment. Give me that moment. Like what, when did you find out, you know, you're, you're, you're into your intuition.

Well, you're already, you know, even at that early age, you know, I'm already realizing I am not going to fit in. I'm just not going to fit in. And, uh, you know, there's already like talk of college even then, you know, even that young. And I was like, I don't want to go to college and I can't see any job I want to do. And I don't want to go in the military. And I just looking around, I'm like, man, I don't see it. I don't see any future here, man. You know, so I'm just kind of drifting. And there was a variety show that the whole family would watch every Sunday night.

You know, in those days, you only had the one TV and the whole family would watch it. And so this variety show would have something for every age group, knowing that the whole family was watching. show would have something for every age group, knowing that the whole family was watching. And, you know, it had the puppets, you know, for the kids and, you know, opera for the old folks. Yeah. And something for the teenagers. And on February 9th, 1964, something for the teenagers was a group called The Beatles. And on they come.

and on they come and i'm telling you man it was it was the epiphany of all time because uh keeping in mind that i've never seen a band before and there weren't a lot of bands around i mean it wasn't like a band culture yet the beatles would change that um but um if you went into your high school dance or something, it was an instrumental group. You didn't see four or five guys or girls playing and singing. I mean, there was just no such thing, you know. So here they are, four guys. And I mean, everything about them is different and exciting. The music, first of all, the hair is different their clothes are different when they do interviews you know they're extremely sophisticated right and very witty and they're only i don't know at that time i mean i mean i mean uh i don't know what they were five

six years older maybe yeah then you that 13 so you were like they're at 19 so like those are the guys you really looked up to like Like I could do this. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and you didn't, you know, and, um, it was the beginning of a youth culture thing that was based on youth, you know, because up until then the, the phenomenon, you know, the phenomenons were, were like, you know, Sinatra who, were like you know sinatra who um you know had been a bit a little bit older yeah uh uh jerry lewis and dean martin you know uh who were huge and you know i mean literally tens of thousands of people uh coming to see them but they they they were a little bit older you know and so this was the first time you know rock and so this was the first time, you know, rock and roll suddenly was about young

people, you know, for young people, by young people. Now, you know, we didn't know. I mean, Chuck Berry was a little bit older, obviously, but we didn't, you know, we didn't really know that because I kind of I kind of missed the 50s. I missed the first decade of rock and roll. I had to go back and study it, you know, later. So for me, the second generation, which was the British, what we call the British invasion, was really the beginning of my life and the beginning of my consciousness. And they seem to be, you know uh that would satisfy this new demographic that i talk about in the book that had been created in the 50s something called a teenager which had not existed before that that makes total sense yeah that what about you know it's like this idea you said about you've always wanted to grow up fast and then you see this

band who's kind of your age does that stop your mentality of saying i want to grow up fast and then you see this band who's kind of your age does that stop your mentality of saying i want to grow up too quickly oh no no no i wanted to be them so you want to get the fuck out of middle school get the fuck out of high school and go on the road right there absolutely absolutely right and you know and be that and be that be that rock and roll thing now now now you know i must add add that they were so sophisticated when we saw them for the first time. This was really, we caught them halfway through the career. They'd been together really more or less since 57. They were gone in 69.

So we catch them 64. We catch them halfway through the career and they are so good at that point man I mean the harmony is perfect everything about them is just perfect you know so you're looking at them like okay this is a whole new world and it's really exciting

but can I picture really doing that because it's pretty far out I mean you know it's very very evolved you I mean, you know, it's very, very evolved, you know? Now, luckily, four months later, the Rolling Stones come. Oh, shit. Okay? All right?

So now you get the yin and yang of it all. You know, they're dressed very casually. Their hair is not perfect, except for Brian Jones. There's no real harmony at all. No, yeah, they're all ugly as fuck. You know, they're weird looking. They are definitely. They were ugly young, dude.

They had a thing that was different, you know. There was a different thing about them. So they made it look easier than it was, basically. You know? And you thought to yourself, you know, well,

I don't know if I can do that Beatle thing, but this Stone's thing, I don't know. I got a shot at that, you know? Were you playing yet? I just started playing, yeah. My grandfather, my Italian grandfather, was showing me a song from his village in Calabria

on acoustic guitar, you know? So I'm just starting, really, just starting. But, like, I've talked about this many times, but I have to say it again. The most important moment for me was the fact that Mick Jagger didn't smile. And he was the first cat in show business I'd ever seen that didn't smile. And this, to me, meant everything. Because I wasn't that interested in show business back then.

I enjoy it now. But back then, when you're building your identity, you are what you like. I didn't go for the glitzy shit. I wanted something hardcore. You guys were really the first punks.

I mean, literally. Stones were? Oh, yeah. I mean, in terms of their appeal and their identity and image, oh, yeah. They were scar. I mean, in terms of their appeal and their identity and image. Oh, yeah. They were scarier than the Sex Pistols ever could have been. That's sick. Oh, yeah. I never realized about them in their younger life. I mean, well, yeah. And plus, they did the same thing that punk did for the next generation, which was making it look easier than it was.

You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. Not a lot of complex chords or something, you know. was you know what i mean yeah totally not a lot of complex chords or something you know um but they were coming from blues which was simple yeah you know three chords the same three chords you know um but they just happened to be uh at that point they were really missionaries for the blues they didn't they didn't they didn't think they were going to ever cross over into the pop world you know uh in fact that that is their great accomplishment, I think, that doesn't get appreciated. The fact that they did cross over to the pop world for 40 years

by playing blues. Well, yeah. They had a blues hit single. They had their fifth or sixth single. I think their first seven singles were all covers, first of all which is interesting for people to know uh but they did um they did little red little red rooster

uh howling wolf song and i mean they played it pretty much straight up like straight ahead number one single in england okay nuts i mean that's an accomplishment that will never be equaled all right never. Never. All right. But anyway, they, they, so they, they're coming across like, you know, I'm looking at this, like this isn't show business. This is a lifestyle, man. You know what I mean? They, this is a, this is something that's more than just on stage. This is, this is, this is a lifestyle.

And that's what I wanted. I wanted the lifestyle more than I wanted the show business part. You know, and that, and that's what I wanted I wanted the lifestyle more than I wanted the show business part you know and that's where that came from because you know he just he was just like serious as a motherfucker and didn't give a shit about nothing Dean Martin was

the host and he's making fun of him and he's putting him down and it was just like my past meeting my future you know uh and i just i just uh so those two moments you know i always have to include the beatles on ed sullivan and the rolling stones on hollywood palace just just four months later but uh it was a it was that yin and yang thing that really combined to make me say, man, I got to do this. And that's all I want to do.

So during this point, were you like, you know, talk about this rock star mentality? You know, were you taking drugs? Were you fucking girls? Like, was that not part of your MO? Were you just focused on just playing guitar? Or was like, you were talking about the lifestyle? No, no, no. That's part of the lifestyle.

Okay, hell yeah. I'm going to clap for that. Hell yeah, no. That's part of the lifestyle. Okay. Hell yeah. I'm going to clap for that. Hell yeah, Stevie. Let's go. Let's fucking go. I would include all those things. When did you, did you get into drugs early in your life or? Yeah.

Yeah. But I, but I wasn't, I know this is going to sound weird, but, but in those days we didn't do drugs to escape. We did drugs as a shortcut to enlightenment. And I know that sounds ridiculous, but it's truth. We didn't have a lot of information back then. There was no internet. There's no nothing.

We were just starting to learn about Eastern philosophy from people. I learned about it from the from, from the beat poets, from Allen Ginsberg and then George Harrison, of course, introducing the Indian, you know, the Hindu stuff, which was very, very foreign and not part of your normal education process. You know, you had to, you had to find it. And so the rock and roll was educating us in many ways, including that.

Now I happen to be very sensitive to the, to the drugs. So when I rock and roll was educating us in many ways, including that. Now, I happen to be very sensitive to the drugs. So when I smoke and, you know, I smoked for a couple of years, you know, but just marijuana and hashish, you know, and then I did a couple of acid trips. And again, the stuff was very powerful in those days. I talk about it in the book, you know, how, you know, a friend friend of mine we took a trip where never came back from that trip you know he came back as a seven year old and stayed a seven year old his whole life

yeah yeah yeah I mean it was serious that's serious oh yeah yeah no you know and that's why I don't you know I never recommend acid you know especially back then it was I think much't, you know, I never recommend acid, you know, especially back then. It was, I think, much more powerful, you know. But anyway, but I was very sensitive even to the even to the even to the, you know, smoke, even to the weed.

Yeah. So I was tripping off of that. It was one of those things that I learned a lot from when I did it, you know, in a short time. For me, I gained what I needed to gain from it. I'm not one of those people where, you know, you get relaxed, which is now, you know, a lot of what's happening now. Right. I mean, I got a cannabis, you know, part of my Little Stevens Underground apothecary, you know.

I got a cannabis we're selling, and it's heavier on the CBD and a little bit less on the THC, you know. So it's more relaxing the body and, you bit less on the THC, you know, so it's more of relaxing the body and, you know, a mellow high, you know, we're doing that right now. You get high anxiety? But that's the thing for me, it didn't relax me. You know what I mean? So it wasn't my thing, but many people, it does relax.

And many people, you know, enjoy it. And so, you know, which is fine. So I just did that, you know, very, very quickly went through the psychedelic era. And then 70s, I was a short term, did cocaine for a year. I had a friend that was a drug dealer and he was bringing back the purest stuff. And I did that for like a year. So you're good about it holding off from your addictions. You could stop yourself.

Yeah. Yeah. And those addictions anyway. Yeah. What were the addictions you couldn't get a hold of? Well, you know, I, I mean, I just, I never got, I never got to, um, you know, the addiction had to have a purpose for me. You know what I mean? Like I didn't feel at point early on, I said, you know, either I'm going to be into drugs or I'm going to be into i said you know either i'm gonna be into drugs or i'm gonna be into sex you know and because because for me you know as opposed to women for some reason you know drugs enhances sex for a lot of women hell yeah the drugs never enhances sex for me no you know what i mean i was like you know out there pulling what I mean? I was like, you know. Out there pulling ropes, Steven.

Yeah, I don't need, you know, who needs this? It's going to fuck up my sex life. Exactly. Let's go. You know what I mean? So I needed to have a purpose, you know. Yeah, totally. So, you know what I mean?

So same thing with drinking. You know, I go through certain phases. You know, I got into reggae very early. So I was drinking like 151 rum for a year or two you know you know you get into certain phases as you're growing up but um i never held on to those drugs or drinking stuff because it just it wasn't helping me it wasn't it wasn't moving me forward to where i needed to be you know where was that i want to be a better songwriter a better guitar player but you know i want to be better i want to be a better songwriter, a better guitar player. You know, I want to be better.

I want to be great. You know, greatness at some point came into my life as a choice. You know, and I think we all at some point have that choice. You know, are you going to go for greatness or not? Because it's going to determine the decisions you make every single day. You know? And so at some point early on, I decided, you know what? I want to have a quality life.

You know, I'll do as much quantity as I can do, as much output as I can have, but mostly I want it to be great. So, you know, it took me a long time to develop as a songwriter as a guitar player to the point where i was happy you know and uh i i just didn't want any distractions from that man i didn't want anything that was going to dilute that yeah because you know that is the reward for me and so um you know i would get into these things you know for a little while and you take what i could take from it that was useful and then move on. You know, you know, that's the thing, too.

It's like I think of it like musicians are the great musicians are kind of like the great athletes. They dedicate themselves. That's like the Michael Jordans of the world, the Kobe's, the Ken Griffey's. Like you have to have that idea of you want to being you want to be the best in the world to do it because only 1% of these people actually fucking make it in these industries, you know? That's the thing. That's the thing and it was not something

that you could take for granted when we grew up because it wasn't even a legitimate business until the 70s. We were in the wild west, man. First years of the first years of the band the 60s in the 60s you were a freak and i mean a freak you know you were like one step away from being a criminal is that why people are getting fucked on these record deals and shit

in the 60s like you see a lot of blues acts getting fucked on this. Yeah, everybody did to some extent. But that's a complicated issue we can get into if you want to. But basically, yes, there was no you know, to be sneaky and surreptitious and kind of not really reveal what those contracts said and have basically unfair contracts, you know, that everybody signed. But I must say, but keep in mind one thing, okay? In those days, 50s, 60s, right into the 70s, yes, you were being exploited and technically you were being robbed. But those record companies made you a star.

True. Okay? They broke you, okay? And you could never have broken by yourself all right so you got to give somebody the motivation to break you and if that means they're going to rob you a little bit so be it okay because now what happened okay it's a very good point because okay so now and this is something that Chuck Berry never understood. And Little Richard did understand. Okay.

Chuck Berry carried being pissed off his entire life. Okay. And yes, those contracts shouldn't have been the way they were. But, you know, you come along right now to me and say, I'm going to make you the biggest star in the world. But I'm going to take all your record royalties. But you get to keep the live money. You know, I make that deal every day of the week, okay? And that's what was happening back then, only they weren't honest about it.

They should have been honest about it, you know? All right, but they weren't, which was a mistake. But here's Chuck Berry, okay, getting robbed of his record royalties, but there, you know what is it whatever it was i don't know 59 cents a single back then and uh and they had to pay off everybody to play those records in those days it's all payable you know and they're selling those singles out of the back of the you know car the chess brothers all right so yeah they're stealing what? You know, how many singles? You know, a million, let's say, you know, two million times fifty nine cents minus the cost, minus the cost, minus the pay over, minus this, minus that. You know, you know, all right. So they probably stole hundreds of thousands of dollars.

All right. And then what happens for the next 50 years? Chuck Berry gets ten thousand dollars in cash and put in his guitar case before he walks on stage. Every gig. Five. Yeah. Five days. All right. That's fifty thousand dollars a week times fifty two weeks a year times fifty fucking years. Holy shit. Now you, you tell me who's being ripped off. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you're right.

You got, right. Have you ever talked to Chuck? I spent all my money. Oh yeah. He was not a pleasant dude. What were you, did you ever try to like make sense to him or you just wasn't hearing?

No, no, no. He was just a nasty fucking guy. Damn. He's one of the, one of the, you know,

one of the few really nasty people in the business. And, no, no. He was just a nasty fucking guy. He's one of the few really nasty people in the business. And as opposed to somebody like Little Richard, who, you know, invented rock and roll as far as I'm concerned. And, you know, people were like, aren't you pissed off that Pat Boone's, you know, doing your records and having hits with the white audience? And because in those days, keep in mind, it was black radio and white radio. And the two weren't supposed to cross over. It was only Alan Freed and really hip and very, very courageous DJs that started playing black music for white kids. Wow.

That was a new idea. So here's Little Richard on the so-called R&B stations and not having any being, you know, not having any, any kind of a white audience. And this guy, Pat Boone, who would clean up his songs and make them really white bread, you know, and, and having hits with them. And people were like, aren't you pissed off, Richard? And he's like, no, man, that cat's turning people on to my music, you know?

And eventually it would catch up because then then when dj started playing little richard's records compared to pat boone's versions yeah there was no comparison there's no fucking comparison no no in the end richard just you know went through life totally happy you know yeah and he got ripped off just like everybody else yeah but he had a 50 60 70 year 70 year career. Yeah. You know? And I mean, the truth of the matter is with those record companies investing like they did to break all the artists, they deserve a piece of the live gate. Okay.

They could have demanded a piece of the live action and they would have been totally deserving of it for your whole life. Yeah. Okay. They could, you know they they they're just as responsible for you being you know successful as as your manager yeah you know if not more in some cases so they should have got 10 of your whole life they should because for giving you the opportunity to uh breaking you spending those spending that money you know to break you through you know what about the mind state of new age record labels now in 2021 where they're not spending the money to

to uh develop artists like they're just being a bank with a high interest rate it's over it's over i mean marketing is over uh really everywhere it's not even just our industry it's over everywhere man you can't get people to market anything. No. You know, it's just something that accountants don't understand. Why, though? Because all they understand is numbers. They don't get the intangibles.

They don't understand promotion or marketing or identity or branding. It's not something that accountants and bean counters understand. They only understand the bottom line, you know? Yeah. And they think content falls off trees. identity or branding. It's not something that accountants and bean counters understand. They only understand the bottom line, you know? Yeah. And they think content falls off trees. They don't understand content. No, they don't. No.

They think it's free. Do you think social media, do you think they fucked, social media kind of fucked it up because like we're giving free content every day. Yeah. And, and, and, and that's what they use. They're like, you know, go promote yourself On social media, that's what you're expected to do now

Yeah And they're signing people to record labels And movie deals and everything else Depending on how many followers you have Yeah You know, if you happen to be talented, that's a bonus You know It's so true, dude

You know, somebody with 6 million followers, baby. Yeah. You're going to be signed. Okay. We'll figure out what was, what we're going to do with you later. You know?

So this is the way it's become over the last 20, 30, 40 years, you know, at the corporatization of our business took hold and all became about, you know, stockholders and the next fiscal quarter. And then the one day I woke up and the accountants were in charge. They weren't just the asshole down the hallway who came out in April to pay your taxes. Right. You know, the accountants now run the business and run

almost every business. OK, there's still a uh you know nominal you know a ceo yeah you know but he ain't running the business true it's a cfo running the business okay the ceo is like the good it's like good cop bad cop you know yeah the ceos of the world are all the good cops you know and the artist relations and you know and r and all those they're hanging out yeah you know they're gonna hang out with the artists you know, and are, and all those, they're hanging out. Yeah. You know, they got to hang out with the artists, you know, but they ain't running shit. Yeah.

Right. It's the CFOs, the accountants that are running the whole fucking planet and they're running it into the ground. Yeah. Okay. Because they don't believe in development. Did you ever,

you know, what you said, what, how does conversation started when you asked about development? Yeah. And believe me, greatness takes development. Okay. Nobody's born great, baby. Nobody. Okay. And I know, you know, a lot of great people, they weren't born that way.

Okay. They developed it and worked at it and worked at it and worked at it. And I think that's the challenge of this generation right now, man, because there's so many distractions. Oh my God. I don't know. Anybody's going gonna focus on something long enough to get great at it i agree i've been in the i've been on the road for 15 years doing 250 shows a year with my band and we played every we you know you guys are a big inspiration to playing every fucking show and playing every show until you become great like it's during the early years did you ever get fucked with the Springsteen band?

Well, yeah, he, he, he had some early trouble. Um, I kind of got into the business later and, and I,

and you know, and I'm watching him like my big brother going through, you know, he had, he had lawsuits and he lost his publishing for a while. And, uh, you know,

he had a deal that, um, that he had to get out of, you know, that he had a little trouble with because that, you know, it was, it was rough right up, right, right into the mid seventies. It was, it was pretty rough. The, or the artists were not quite in control yet. And then when artists got in control, you know, you know, you know, certain good things happened and certain bad things happened, you know.

Like what? Well, you know, business wise, people, you know, did better, of course. But artistically, it started to become a little weird where the artists felt like they had to do everything, you know? Suddenly every singer had to be a songwriter because they had discovered this thing called publishing. Oh, where the money. You know? Yeah.

And in the old days, which in my mind, and I would say, in fact, mind and I would say in fact had a higher quality of work being done it took an army to make a record okay you had the singer you know and and then you had musicians usually usually session guys you had an arranger at every session okay that's a lost art yeah it's true every session had an arranger okay then you got the producer you know and and you know and then you got songwriters you know sort of songwriters were different and the musicians were different and the singers were different and the producers and arrangers you know you had all these different people all contributing their expertise and you had a bunch of great fucking records okay right through the 60s okay yeah you're totally true damn and then suddenly you know and so something was gained and lost

because you know the artists now had to be artists and the kind of the definition of that word meant you had to kind of be a songwriter too you know mostly mostly you know there's not that many if you think about it not that many well-respected singers uh that weren't writers you know there's not that many if you think about it not that many well-respected singers uh that weren't writers you know there's only a few through history you know i mean we're talking about sinatra and elvis presley right yeah you know and joe cocker and you know um i don't know whitney houston or you know i mean you know there a handful, you know, but to be a respected artist, that word implied authorship. You know what I mean? You know, and so so and this is something that the Beatles led the way on. They were well, I shouldn't say that because Chuck Berry, you know, obviously was writing everything.

say that because Chuck Berry, you know, obviously was writing everything. And Chuck Berry was the one who brought lyrics, introduced lyrics to the game. He was the storyteller. And then Bob Dylan would take it to the next level. Bob Dylan came in and included lyrics, the content from his folk world and from the country blues world, injecting reality and social awareness into the pop idiom. So Bob Dylan took Chuck Berry's lyrics to the next level, you know, and at that point, Bob Dylan influenced the Beatles and influenced the Stones and they all influenced each other. And somewhere between 1965 or so,

the rock world became an art form. It became an art form, you know art form you know and ever since then you know um the you know you kind of had to be a writer or a co-writer you know for the most part and let's you know the problem was most people are not very good writers yeah that's what i was gonna say like did it ruin the freeness of rock and roll? That idea that you said in the beginning when you were 13 that you love, this idea of being free, this idea of rock and roll had an identity. It didn't feel like the music business. Now you're in the 70s and you feel like rock and roll is becoming the music business. Well, yes, that's right.

It was a coup d'etat. It's like fucked up because rock and roll was an underground cult yeah you know right up until really until the british invasion of 64 and then um and then yeah and then you had the rock era would last i clock it from bob dylan's like a rolling stone in 65 to kurt Cobain's death in 94. All right. I think that's, that's the rock era.

And then the rock era ended and we went back to a pop era, you know, and we're going to, I think we'll stay in a pop era forever now, you know, rock and roll has now been pushed back to being a cult, you know, and all we can say that,

I don't know. I mean, that might be where we belong to tell you the truth. You know what I mean? Because we were kind of like, I think it was an anomaly. I think it was a mistake of nature that we ended up taking over the business. Because we were really the freaks. The circus.

Yeah. So I think it's okay being back back to being a cult but i've worked the last 20 years to try and make it a healthy cult that's all you know i want people to be able to make a living doing it even though we're not on the charts anymore i mean what was the last rock song that was was on the pop charts i mean i don't even tell you yeah yeah i mean it's it's it's decades you know so you, we're no longer part of the mainstream industry, but that doesn't mean, you know, we can't make a living. You know what I mean?

Live, we're still, you know, we're still the biggest thing. Yeah. You know? So it's basically changing your mind state from like, you're not going to get that mailbox money playing rock and roll, but you're going to still make money playing live. Yeah. If you can break through these days, which is, you know.

That's what's fucking hard with social media much harder yeah yeah yeah i mean all we can do is you know i mean we've we've introduced in the 20 years we've been on the air uh we've introduced over a thousand new bands yeah thousand jesus you know maybe five of them have broken through maybe you know i mean white stripes the hives you know um uh rival sons you know yeah uh uh you know not many more i mean out of a thousand a thousand good bands i mean to get on my radio station you know you gotta you gotta be good yeah exactly you know you know so out of those thousand you know but people are adapting and they're

finding ways of staying alive you know I mean quite a few of our bands now find a way to tour and you know the great thing was this sound exchange was the greatest invention ever seriously seriously that saved a lot of bands lives the greatest invention ever. I know, dude. I gotta clap it up for Soundstage.

Seriously. Seriously. That saved a lot of bands' lives. Really. And that's the only way my record company breaks even, you know, which is my lifelong goal, you know, to break even. Yo, Stephen, do you mind talking to me about something? But before we, I want to get into your acting career too,

because your life is fucking amazing, dude. This is insane. Like what was the tiff between you and Bruce? The fight? Yeah. What's the tiff? What happened? If you don't mind.

We had like three fights in our life and I put them all in the book, you know, in pretty good detail. What was the worst one that like really heartbroke you well um you know i i i don't know i think it was uh it's a close call with a couple of them you know when i left the band it was it was um um it was a moment that was difficult very very awkward for us, you know. And then, you know, the one was when, you know, when we went in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame without me, you know,

and he brought that up himself when he inducted the E Street Band into the Hall of Fame. He brought that up himself when he inducted the E Street Band into the Hall of Fame. He brought it up. He was like, you know, I was right about that, he said. You know, right in the speech to a billion people, you know. So I was surprised he did that. But, you know, it was nice of him to acknowledge that. But, you know, the nice thing is about our friendship is so solid that,

you know, even when we have a fight or something, it doesn't last very long. You know what I mean? It's a couple of weeks and we, and we reconcile and cause our bond, it goes so far back and so deep, you know,

when, when, when you're 15, 16 years old and, you know, you're the only freak in the neighborhood. Believe me, when you find another freak, it's a big relief. Yeah, it's on. You know what I mean?

The weight of the world is off. If you're all alone, you're like, well, something must be wrong with me. You know, I mean, I'm not not fitting in anywhere i don't see any future here you know i don't like the options that society has given me man you know but then um you know when we met i was like well man it's at least one other guy believes that rock and roll is everything everything not just a hobby not something on the weekend you know not some you know transitional thing temporary thing it's everything yeah and he's the only other person i ever met like that and i'm sure i was the same thing for him you know so we really strengthened

each other at a time when we really needed it you know and that's and i think that bonded us forever to this day yeah you know and when you go through that and we go it's like kind of like brothers and like you're gonna fight and you're gonna fucking be an asshole and he's gonna be a fucking asshole and you know but the end of the day you know your life is better with your brother because he understands you on a deeper level that's that's right that right. And, you know, and we've been very complimentary, you know,

with our gifts, our certain gifts that we have, you know, I think we fit together well, you know? Yeah. You ever beat the shit out of each other? No,

nothing physical. That'd be awesome, dude. Just throwing bows at each other at a show or something. No, no, that's the kinks. Hell yeah, dude. Just throwing bows at each other at a show or something. No, that's the Kinks. Hell yeah, dude. That's another underrated band. That's one of the best songwriters.

I was just listening to a bunch of Kinks. So many just heartfelt. Those guys went through pain, but they still stayed rock and roll. They were one of the great bands of all time. You ever meet them? Yeah, yeah. I did a lengthy interview with Ray and Dave. And, you know, it's funny

because they're both the nicest guys in the world, you know? And they just cannot get along, man. I mean, it's just, it's bad blood. They define it, you know? And I just, I keep hoping that they'll get over it and get back together. Once in a while, you hear a rumor that

they might do that, you know, and I hope it's true. It's like I think about Keith and Mick, too, you know? They don't do the same sessions together. You have to understand something. We bought the whole illusion. You know, we thought they were all best friends.

Right. You know, there's a scene in the Beatles' second movie, Help. You ever see that? I haven't, no. Oh, it's a fun movie. Yeah, I've checked it. Great. So there's a scene, you know, where they go up to a row of flats, apartments,

and they all put their key in a different door, going into their apartments. And they go in, and they're all in the same room. In other words, it's four different doors, but they all live in one. Exactly. They all live together. And that's how we pictured it.

We took that literally, you know, like they're all best friends and they all started off as good friends. But then, you know, we didn't, in those days, you know, the fights and the controversies were really kept to a minimum. They had publicists in those days that made sure that nobody knew

what was the bad stuff. You know? Yeah. And that was good because we bought the illusion. And us third generation guys, we just took it literally. You know, we look like they look like their best friends. We were best friends and stayed that way. You know, and that's what we communicated because that's what bands communicate.

Okay. What's the difference between a band and a solo act? It's what we communicated because that's what bands communicate okay what's the difference between a band and a solo act it's what is being communicated it's a whole different communication uh solo act is like me me me and a band is us it's it's it's it's the family it's the friendship it's the posse the gang know, the team and that communicates community. Was Bruce me, me, me, or did you feel like you were in a band? No, no, no. It's always been a band. Yeah. It's always been a band. Now, you know, it was the, the hybrid somebody and the somebodies,

you know, was a hybrid somewhere in between the complete democratic band and a band with a leader you know um but we were always a band it was always a band that's my band's called andy frasco in the un but we're a band and like we've been on the road forever like what do you what advice can you give like my type of band who's been together for 15 years doing 250 shows a year you probably know uh as much or more than i do but you know i i put in some tips in the book of how to keep a band together and start off by you know separate rooms uh you know um as soon as you can afford it I mean 250 shows a year really for real

today I got back we did three and a half months straight we did 67 shows in 78 days man I gotta tell you the truth can I tell you the truth yeah please give it to me you the truth. Can I tell you the truth?

Yeah, please give it to me. You shouldn't be doing that. Okay. I mean, I'm telling you right now, if you want, if you want to stay. Give me, that's what I'm talking about. Give me some advice. The biggest key to longevity to me, to my mind, you know, and people do it for different reasons. So I'm not putting anybody down. Okay. Cause some people, they tour to make as much money as they can, and then they come home and then they live their lives, okay? That's not me.

That's not the rock and roll lifestyle to me. I'm in for the long run. In other words, I got to live every single day, all right? I'm not touring to then live. I live while I'm i'm that's great and you know and the biggest the biggest key to it in my mind play every other day okay and i know no i know it costs it costs a little more but let me tell you something man you gotta break out of the hotel stage you know bus plane thing all right that's what kills you that's what kills bands all right you gotta be able to what i do is i you know we do a gig

and i just did three years with my band disciples of soul you know we did two world tours my two my two recent albums soul fire and summer of sorcery and uh and uh and this is how this is how we did it you know you get to a town all right now you have that day the travel day you're off you know it's not really an off day but it's close to off as we need you know yeah you get to town okay now go see the town all right All right? And I try to make everybody get up early. Like, you know, get to the airport, I mean, 10, 11 o'clock, so you can get to the town, you know, 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock, and see the town, go out to dinner that night, you know,

go to a club, go see a band. The next night, you play that town okay and then do it all again the next day day after that you travel to the next town you experience that town you know you have a little fun with the with the band members or not yeah you know and then the next day you play every other other day. Every other day. I'm telling you right now, it changes the entire experience. Because now you're living. You're living. You know, you're not just playing.

And getting to a town before you play, you know, you go out to some bars. Get to know the local people, man. You know what I mean? Get a feel for it. Get a feel for what you're doing. Because every town is a little bit different. You know what I mean? Get a feel for it. Get a feel for what you're doing. Because every time is a little bit different. You know what I mean? It all becomes homogenized if you're not careful.

Right. Okay? And that's easy to do. It's easy to think every audience is the same, every stage is the same, everything is the same, same, same. And that ain't no way to live, man. That ain't no way to live. Okay?

And, yes, it's a little more expensive. Okay. You're going to make less money. Yes. You know? Um, but to me, it's, it's, it's the longevity that matters and it's the quality of life. Yes. Quality of life, you know, get to a town, learn something, you know, maybe you want to, you know, have a little a little do something in a school. Go to a school and, you know, give a little lecture or answer some questions with the kids or something. Spend some time, you know, doing something like that. You know what I mean? Because I got all kinds of things that I do. You know, you know, I'll give master classes at schools

or I'll just visit an affiliate because I got a radio network all over the world, you know. I might go visit a radio station or visit a record store, you know, when there was record stores. You know, and I'll ask the local

guy in the record store, you know, who's the hot local band, you know. And I'll check out their records, the record store, you know, who's the hot local band, you know? And I'll check out their records, you know? You know, learn something. Learn something. You know, we do three things in this world, you know? We learn, we do our thing, and we teach. Those three things are what we're capable of doing, you know?

You know, learning, practicing our craft and teaching anyone. Any day you can do all three of those things is a good day. Yeah. God, you're, you're fucking right. I'm calling my manager today and saying, listen, Steven says every other day, he's going to hate me. Managers and agents hate my guts. Well, fuck it. They're not living this life. It's a harder work.

And it's smarter for them because instead of you burning out, you're going 15 years. Man, I got to salute you, man. If you're doing 250 shows a year doing 15 years, oh my God. Yeah, we're slowing down. Now that we got, I felt like

we really passed the point now now we're getting flying two shows two shows every the weekend and flying home now so it's like but like for the bus stuff for fall i'm like trying to figure out a gameplay because this three and a half months was fucking hard it's just like during covid and everything it's just like you don't want it to be hard yeah you know what i mean i mean you want you want the energy to happen on stage right you know not not not in enduring the tour you don't want to you know it's not an endurance test yeah you know you're talking about you know somebody in that audience you you might save their life, man. You know, you might affect their life, you know, but you got to be on your game 100 percent.

Right. You know, and that means you got to have you got to give your brain a rest and your body a rest in order to, you know, rejuvenate, rejuvenate, refuel. You know what I mean? You can't be bang, bang, bang, bang. It just becomes a physical endurance test in the end. You know what I'm saying? So, I mean, that's all I would suggest. You know, if you can go every other day and have your own room, you're going to have quality of life. I'm on it.

Thanks, Steve. Fuck yeah, dude. I'm going to clap it up. Let's go. You're like my therapist today, bud. Let's get it. I know you got to go, but I got to talk about your acting career because you are such an amazing actor. You got great at acting so early. Like, whoa, who were your influences? Who taught you?

Like the soprano stuff was fucking amazing, dude. Yeah, no, I was very, very lucky to have the greatest acting school in the world with them with that gang um i think in certain things in life um you know life experience kind of counts you know you know what i mean i didn't become an actor until i was in my 40s so you know you've lived a lot of life by then and that helps you know the more life you have lived the more i think you can understand the craft a little bit now Now, you know, you never stop learning the craft, of course, or any craft. When you're 10 years old, 15 years old, even 20 years old, you know, how much of life have you really lived? So it becomes more an

intellectual exercise, learning the craft, where after you've been around for a while, you've seen a lot of situations and something in a script will be familiar. You know, it was like, Oh, I know, I know what that's about. You know what I mean? So I think, I think that helps. And I just think when people have faith in me, which is rare, I mean the amount of people who have had faith, blind faith in me, I can probably count on one hand Jesus And when that happens Man You want to deliver

Okay Who was it Who was it that gave you that Who had faith in you Well David Chase The creator of The Sopranos I mean He chose me

To be Tony Soprano Okay And yeah You know I talk about it In great detail In the book But he You know And HBO like, are you out of your fucking mind? You know, this guy never acted before in his life. You know, this is big, a big investment for us. Oh my God. It's insane.

Yeah. So, um. So were you bitter that Gandolfini was? Were you bitter that Gandolfini was? No, no, no. In fact, I saw him sitting in the waiting room when I went in to read for HBO. At that point, I had the gig. All right. And I had just seen True Romance, which was a movie that nobody saw. And I don't know why.

I think it has now become a cult classic now. I think people have, you know. But at that time, no one had ever seen. And Tarantino wrote the script, you know. And it was Tony, what's his name? Famous director. And it's a classic movie. If you've never seen True Romance, check it out.

Oh, yeah, with Michael Rapaport. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah, yeah. Anyway, it's just phenomenal, and Jimmy plays this unbelievable gangster in it, and beats up the little,

the female lead, I forget her name, but anyway, I'm on my way in to read, and I see him sitting there, and I ask the casting girl, I said, you know what that is? And she said, no. I said, you see true romance? No.

I said, that guy is the guy who should be playing Tony Soprano. Okay. I swear to God. You said that? Yeah. Well, she looked at me like I had two fucking heads. Cause you know, this is not something that happens in Hollywood. No. What a fucking humble humble fucking humble brag dude well well you know i'm coming from the music business so

yeah you know what i mean i'm more like everybody's one big family yeah you know and it ain't that way uh in hollywood you know what i mean i'm learning it's it's different It's a little bit, you know, doggy dog type of thing. Anyway, it turned out. Well, HBO said he couldn't hire me. And and luckily, Jimmy got the gig. But David Chase says to me, you know, you can play whatever role you want to play. What would you rather do? And I said, you know, now that I'm role you want to play. What would you rather do? And I said, you know, now that I'm thinking about it,

because it all happened so fast, I said, you know, I'm feeling kind of guilty taking an actor's job. I got to tell you the truth because, you know, these guys, you know, my wife's a real actor. She went to school for years, goes off Broadway, off, off Broadway, doing scenes. You know, she has a whole theater company. And I'm like, you know, here I come from, you know, guitar player,

you know, half a hippie guitar player off the street, you know. I mean, I'm just feeling guilty taking a guy's job. And he says, okay, okay, I'll tell you what. You're not going to take an actor's job. I'm going to write you in a part that doesn't exist. Okay? Yeah. So I'm like, wow, this guy's crazy. He really exist. Okay. Yeah. So I'm like,

wow, this cat's crazy. He really believed in you. Yeah. And, and so he says, now what do you want to do? I said,

well, I never thought about acting in my whole life, but I did think about writing and I was hoping someday maybe to, you know, be a director and, you know, producer, but,

but I had a treatment that wasn't a script yet. It's a script now, but of an independent hitman named Silvio Dante, who had a club, kind of semi-retired hitman, and he runs

a club more like the old Copacabana. So he kind of lives in the past, but it's set in present day. But you go into his club and you're back in the 50s you know big bands uh you know chorus girls you know the jewish cat skills type comic you know that whole scene you know yeah and uh and and in the club the five families would have their tables and the police commissioner and the mayor, you know, so it's kind of like a you know, a mob version of Casablanca

kind of, you know. And so David Chase is that sounds pretty cool, you know. Let me see. So he goes to HBO and he comes back and says, we can't afford that, but we'll make it a strip club. Holy shit, dude. This is crazy. and he comes back and says, we can't afford that, but we'll make it a strip club. Holy

shit, dude. This is crazy. Dude. Okay. So now you're rocking in Sopranos. Who is your biggest... Only a couple more minutes. I know you got to go. So who's the guy? Who's your friend?

I had been a fan of the genre going way back. No reason, but... So i had read every book every mob book i had seen every movie back to the 30s and i've seen these guys around so i just kind of felt i could do it you know i just kind of felt I had a feel for it. And so I just decided, you know, I wrote a whole biography about the guy, you know, made up story. And then I found out where John Gotti had his clothes made

and I hired his tailor. So you just like absorbed into it. Yeah, yeah. And I designed the whole hair thing because he's living in the 50s, so I just like absorbed into it yeah yeah and you know and i designed the whole hair thing because he's living in the 50s so i wanted like a 50s style hair you know and um and so uh when i came out of the trailer you know part of my biography was that he was fearless and he was you know uh watching tony soprano's back you know they kind of uh you know and he was fearless and he was, you know, uh, watching Tony Soprano's back, you know, they, they kind of, uh, you know, and he was the one guy that didn't want to be the boss.

He liked being, he liked being the, uh, under boss and consulate, you know? Um, and so when I came out of that trailer, I was, I was him, you know, I felt if I could look in the mirror and see the guy, I could be the guy, you know? And that's what, that's what happened. It's kind of like, it's so, so close to rock and roll too. Authenticity. Well, uh, it's, it's a thing where, yeah, you want to absorb that particular, whatever you're in, you know, whatever you're doing, right. You want to, you want to study it and absorb it and know everything about it, you know?

So then you can forget about it. You know what I mean? The more, you know, once you know everything about something, and now, you know, because it's all an act, whether you're acting like a rock star or whether you're acting like a gangster, you know, whatever you're doing in life is an act to some extent. You know? So it's just a matter of being the appropriate character at the appropriate time.

You know? So it's just a matter of being the appropriate character at the appropriate time. And that is just a matter of knowing the options, knowing the characteristics that you need at any given time. How was Gandolfini's death? How did you react to that? You know, he was a very close friend and I miss him every day, man. You know, it was a shock and he was just getting started in the industry. He would have been regarded as one of the great actors of all time. There's no doubt in my mind still is even, you know,

even what little work he did. What did he teach you about life? Well, it was kind of the opposite role. You know, he, he would come into me about fame, you know,

because he was experiencing fame for the first time. And I knew what that was about, you know he he would come into me about fame you know because um he was experiencing fame for the first time and i knew what that was about you know yeah and so he would come to me and uh you know little little things i mean the little little you know i mean when we had our first success you know and and there's always a rap party or a celebration party at the end of the year, you know, and, you know, at first, you know, because he comes from, the reason why we bonded, I think, so closely was because he's coming from being a character actor. You know, he was not a leading man. And I also prefer being a side guy. You know what I mean? I prefer not to be the leading guy. But we both have been that lead guy.

And we both have, you know, risen to that occasion. Right. You know, but it's not our inclination. You know what I mean? So I think we bonded on the fact that we don't want to be in the spotlight. Okay? You know, we're kind of more interested in observing than being observed. Right.

You know, so we bonded pretty early and um and he's coming from movies to tv now you come you know movies they do two pages a day tv can do seven oh and and and he's and he's four of those seven pages, you know. So he quit the show every day, basically. And so, you know, we would go to a bar afterwards, and I had a talking minute coming back the next day. You know. So what did you teach him about that? Nobody had that working class attitude, you know.

Like when it came to the parties, you know, I said, you know, we're going to need a VIP section. He's like, no, no, no, not for me. You know, I don't dig that VIP shit, you know, you know, because, you know, he's a regular guy, you know, and that's how he thinks. And I'm like, Jimmy, trust me on this. OK, you know, you got to adapt and understand your new position in the world. Yeah. He's like, no, no, no. We get there. All right.

I put the cast in the VIP section. He's not in the VIP section. He gets attacked by everybody in the audience, right? You know? He can't get a drink. He can't get something to eat. He can't enjoy himself at all you know and he comes to me ladies oh okay i get it now i get it i get it i get it i said you know

it's not being elitist all right it's not that's not what it's about you know it's about having a comfortable time you know i mean because i'm into this quality of life thing all the time you know i mean i don't believe in doing things you know uh to to to you know it's a journey for me you know not the destination you know what i mean you know what i mean i don't believe that means to an end thing like oh i gotta tolerate this party you know uh and then i can go home and live my life. I'm like, no, let's enjoy it. You know, and the way to enjoy the party is, you know, it's to have not people not be a meet and greet, you know, because meets and greets are no fun. You know, but I had to explain that to him.

And he had to adapt to being a star, you know. And I was like, believe me, this is not about being a diva or prima donna. It's not about that, man. It's just having some space and some, you know, calm and, you know, so, you know, little things like that. Same advice you gave me about playing every other day to enjoy the life that you have as this job. That's right. I'm telling you, your whole life will change. I'm telling you right now.

If you're doing 250 shows a fucking year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm done with that. Get ready for your whole life to change. I can't you right now. If you're doing 250 shows a fucking year. Yeah. Yeah. I'm done with that. Get ready for your whole life to change. I can't. Let's go. Let's go. I'm going to call your uncle Steven,

dude. Let's go, dude. Oh, thank you so much for being on the show. I've learned so much and I'm just thankful that there's people like you in the world teaching this stuff because, you know,

overworking is a thing and not enjoying your life now and waiting until you retire to enjoy life. Fuck that. Yeah, fuck that. Exactly. Thank you so much for being on the show. I can't wait to read the book. I'm just soaked. I got one last question.

What do you want to be remembered by? Well, I probably won't be. Fuck yeah, you will. If anything, I think a couple of things will live beyond me. I think my my my music history curriculum, I think, will live beyond me. You know, teach rock dot org. We we have over 250 lessons online right now and doing more every week. And we've got 40,000 teachers teaching it and a bunch of partner schools. So I'm hoping it catches on because we are, I'm convinced that if we can integrate the arts into the basic disciplines of education, not an after-school thing, not an extra class, but putting art into science, into math,

into engineering and technology, the entire education process, I believe will change, will be transformed for the better. I agree. So I hope, I think that'll outlive me. And I think my two radio formats will outlive me, you know, Underground Garage and Outlaw Country. I think they're essential and, you know, really, really important to have a place where greatness is accessible to future generations. So I think those two things, you know, really, really important to have a place where greatness is accessible to future generations. So I think those two things, you know.

And your acting, baby, come on. You killed it. You know, that'll always, you know, that'll always be there. Yeah, the soprano. What a legend. I'm proud of Lillehammer, too. Dude, Lillehammer was amazing, too, man. I mean, was that harder?

Was that harder than Sopranos? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, because, you know, I was doing a lot more, man. And I was, you know, co-writing it and co-producing it. was amazing too man i mean was that harder was that harder than sopranos oh yeah oh yeah because you know i was doing a lot more man i was co-writing it and co-producing it and i directed the final episode and uh and you know i'm working in norway well you know uh with people you know who didn't understand you know the entire tv culture you know They only had a film culture. So I had to show the difference. And we ended up kind of coming to a

very interesting hybrid of TV and movie culture with that show. But there's that. And politically, I'm most proud of what we did with Sun City, but that won't be remembered in the long run. That's okay. That's okay. We got Mandela out of jail, and we toppled long run. That's okay. That's okay. You know, we got Mandela out of jail and we got, we toppled the government.

Let's fucking go, Steve. Let's go big daddy. Thanks for being on the show, man. Hey man, my pleasure. You know, you've earned it. Relax a little bit. Yes, sir. I'm going, I'm going to go watch Lily Hamer for the 27th time now. Have a good one, buddy. Thanks for being on the show. Later, buddy.

Thank you. Bye. Holy shit. Wow. Oh my God. Oh my God. That was, oh my God. Oh my God.

I don't even know what to say. That was one of my favorite interviews. He gave us advice, talked about his life, talked about fucking fighting with Bruce Springsteen, talked about fucking Gandolfini and how he was going to be Tony Suprema. What the fuck?

Guys, re-listen to this interview. A lot of truth for musicians, a lot of truth in following your dreams, a lot of truth in how to live life. This guy keeps finding dreams, and it's amazing. All right, I'll catch you on the tail end.

Wow. We're back. What an inspiring interview. That was so good. Dude, he's the shit. I don't even like Bruce Ringsteen band that much. Really? I don't like their music.

Ooh, hot take. You can cut that out if you want. No. I respect them as business people. I just don't like the songs. My mom loves it. Yeah, I love it. I mean, she's also 60.

She was like, you know, a teenage girl when that shit was popping. Yeah. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying it's not for me. It's okay. You know what is for you though? Repsy. Repsy.

Damn. Repsy.com. Every guys. Um, this is the end of the season. They, they brought this episode. They promoted this one.

This is the present presentation. They wanted to present the last one. Really? Yeah. And, um, yo, sign your band up for Repsy.com. Oh yeah. You got the pitch after, after one year. What is the pitch for Repsy? Yeah. And, um, yo, sign your band up for Repsy.com. Oh yeah.

You got the pitch. After, after one year, what is the pitch for Repsy? Okay, listen, uh, you just sign up.

It's no skin off your back. They find you gigs. If you already have an agent, they don't, you don't have to double pay. They pass it on. It looks like they're booking a lot of stuff though. I've been kind of following them.

You see a lot of parties, weddings. I would try to get in that frat party scene. If I were a band in the South, me too. That've been kind of following them. You see a lot of parties, weddings. I would try to get in that frat party scene. If I were a band in the South, me too. That's a great, great money. Here's the thing about frat parties. Okay. First of all, they pay great. You're playing for all these drunk idiots, you know, in theory, right? But they're in college and what do people in college do? They get jobs. Then they go out in the world and they remember your band and they go see you in whatever Atlanta or wherever they moved

and then look at that. You have a nice fan base in the south because you played a bunch of Sigma Chi. You know what I mean? In Athens or whatever. So Repsy sign up to Repsy. Thank you guys. Tannum hot dudes. Good looking guys. Good looking guys from Birmingham.

Birmingham. You might as well rep the boys. Birmingham. I like that town. Very cool. See that, that venue, that Saturn, it wants, there's an award.

It wins an award. Wow. Really? Yeah, but we can't, you're in it. Well, I can't wait to hear your award ceremony.

So we're going to do a bonus episode next week. I know this is the season finale, but this will be like a preview for the patron. This is the kind of content you're going to get. You get one free one. That's like drugs. Okay. you're the drug deal the podcast dealer little sprinkle guys have a great new year's don't drink and drive don't drink and drive idiots don't be a fucking idiot get a nine dollar uber you fucking idiot or a fifty dollar if you

get a fucking dui anymore in 2021 or 2022 you're kind of a loser i'm sorry because if you can't afford an uber you can't afford to be out drinking anyway wow wiser words have not just don't get a fucking dy is that so much to ask it's not like yeah just don't kill other people because you got drunk that's all i'm asking yeah you know kill your livers get hammered other people kill yourself that's fine shut the no i mean kill yourself i mean like whoa chill chill chill i mean like i meant like drink yourself to death just don't hurt other people you're right so uh keep it safe i know so funny we're just gonna like you know it's been a hard year and we just want to fucking

just destroy our bodies one last time before we go back to the gym. Yeah, because I'll be right in the gym Saturday, January 1st. Alright, guys. Hope you enjoyed Lil Stevie. Hope you've been enjoying season four. I felt like this was the best season so far.

We just keep getting better. Right. And keep getting better. Go, Mara. She keeps booking you. Lights out. Yeah, shout out to Mara. Mara Davis. You gotta give And keep getting better. Go Mara. She keeps booking you. Lights out. Yeah. Shout out to Mara. Mara Davis.

You gotta give it up to her. Brian Schwartz. Joe Angel out. Chris Lorenz. Everyone. Repsy. Arno. Arno.

Everyone. I love his voice at the end. Thank you, Nick. Hell yeah. I'm glad I'm to be part of something. It feels good to have a friend. It feels good to be part of something that's actually people are into. Yeah.

And it's thought provoking. Thought provoking is good for me. It's good for you. Good for me to talk and, you know. It's always about you, Nick. No, I'm just saying it's good therapy, probably. I don't know. I feel like you've opening up more.

Probably. You used to be a closed book. I'm still a pretty closed book. There's not a lot going on. There's not a lot of... Hmm. A blank slate of nothing. Well, stay hot.

I'm going to be hot. There's one thing I want to do. Tell your girlfriend I say hi. Oh, well, you're going to see her this weekend. Yeah, tell Kino I say hi. Kino's at the babysitter. I was going to bring her today. Your dog is a babysitter?

Yeah, we're going to Chicago for a couple days. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. She just goes to this apartment and chills. It's so funny. She just chills. I love that dog. Yeah, she just does whatever. I'm here now.

Okay, I guess I'm here now. It's like that. I love it. All right, we'll catch you season five. We got a lot of big stars. Big stars coming? Star-studded event. Season five. The Queen of England, I heard. Yes, the Queen of England. Donald Trump, I think, is doing

an episode. Obama said she might do it. Obama said maybe. Yeah, she's considering. Michelle Obama, maybe. Barack Obama, hard no. Hard no, but Michelle likes my songs. I think we could get Trump to do it. I think he'll do anything to be recorded talking. That'd be so fun.

I'm not getting Trump on the show. I know, but that would be awesome. What about Donald Trump Jr.? That'd be even worse. He's even lamer. He is even lamer. Okay, I love you. Thanks for everything.

And thanks for another amazing year. And thanks for just listening to me talk bullshit and trying to get all of us on the same page of trying to figure out what it is that makes us happy and what it is that makes us get anxiety and all that stuff. And, you know, we're all along for the ride. So no pun intended, but keep on keeping on. I love you.

You tuned in to the World Safer Podcast with Andy Fresco, now in its fourth season. Thank you for listening to this episode, produced by Andy Fresco, Joe Angelo and Chris Lawrence. We need you to help us save the world and spread the word. Please subscribe, rate the show, give us those crazy stars, iTunes, Spotify, wherever you're picking this shit up. Follow us on Instagram at world saving podcast for more info and updates. Fresco's blogs and tour dates

you find at andyfresco.com and check our socials to see what's up next. Might be a video dance party, a showcase concert, that crazy shit show or whatever springs to Andy's wicked brain.

And after a year of keeping clean and playing safe, the band is back on tour. We thank our brand new talent booker Mara Davis. We thank this week's guest, our co-host and all the fringy frenzies that help make this show great. Thank you all. And thank you for listening.

Be your best, be safe, and we will be back next week. No animals were harmed in the making of this podcast as far as we know. Any similarities, interactions, or knowledge, facts or fake is purely coincidental.