Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 164: Anderson East

Episode Date: March 22, 2022

Andy checks in from Puerto Rico, indicating that he is in fact, still alive; perhaps, despite the best efforts of good friends and party maniacs, the Cocuzza bros. Will our boy survive the hardships of a hard vacay? But nevermind all that, cuz more importantly, we got Nashville's own, Anderson East on the Interview Hour today! Your favorite gum is coming back in style. Let's rock.  Get your voyeur kicks in now by watching this episode via youtube.  Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out Andy's new song, "Wash, Rinse, Repeat" on iTunes, Spotify  Catch him on the road and/or at www.andersoneast.com Produced by Andy Frasco Joe Angelhow Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: The Super Cocuzza Bros. Arno Bakker

All right, and we're back. Andy Frasca's World Saving Podcast. I'm Andy Frasca. That's our heads, that's our minds. We're staying out of trouble. Did you forget all your goddamn podcast gear at Inventor Colorado? Yes, I did. So I am on two iPhones. But, you know, that's a thing. Vacation is like that. I'm not really a guy who goes on vacation, per se. Oh, I'm going to take this. I work a lot. I never get to enjoy this.

So here we are shooting a video. Are we in Viaques? Viaques. What do you know about Viaques? Come over here. Greg, get over here. This is our... Come over here Greg, get over here Come here Greg, sit over here with me Howdy

How are we this morning? I just met you this week But you have been Spoonfed Tribe's tour manager You moved out to Costa Rica Puerto Rico Puerto Rico Tell me a little about Puerto Rico Why'd you move here? For the beautiful I'm going to Puerto Rico. Tell me a little about Puerto Rico.

Why'd you move here? For the beautiful nature, the way of life, the vibes that we're getting, the vibes we're giving. Fishing, eating, swimming, surfing. Chicks. Does this refuel you? Every day. You think I need something like this? It looks good on you right now.

So we're going to go fishing. What else are we going to do? We're going to do a little bioluminescent tour. Swim with some plankton. Actually, I don't think you swim with them here, but kayak in it. Can you take mushrooms? Is it safe to do that? 100.

Okay, so we're going to take mushrooms and do the bioluminescence. 100. It makes them a little really shiny, bright. Cool. Special tracers. And then we're going to Racon and do the bioluminescence. 100. It makes them really shiny, bright. Cool. Special tracers. Then we're going to Racon. Where is Racon? West side.

Northwest corner of Puerto Rico. Surf capital of Puerto Rico. Surf capital. Can I learn how to surf there? You're going to be an excellent surfer. I will? Let's fucking do it. Let's do it.

Greg, thanks for having me on this trip. Let me stop. Yeah, come on. Go back to snorkeling, setting up your stuff for fishing. Yeah, I'm out here with Chad Cacuzzo. Chad, get over here, too. This is a quick one. We're going to do a quick opening because we're on an iPhone.

Yo, you having fun? Dude, it's the times that dreams are made of, my friends. I'm glad we're having this experience together. We always try to have a vacation once a year. And it refuels me to get back out there to whoop ass. Yeah, man. It's always a good motivation to look at life in different aspects, man. I mean, we get to see this aspect right now. We didn't get to see this aspect. You're lying your ass off.

We've been drinking and doing the same goddamn thing we would do if we were in fucking... Today's the day. We're about to go do like a nice little hike and then we're going to do some swimming and wrestle some sharks. We're not touching any. There's sharks? No, there's no sharks. There's no snakes or spiders or any of that stuff either, bro. Dude, this guy's...

They are wild horses. I do want to go touch a wild horse while listening to Wild Horses by Rolling Stones. That is 100% doable here. Do you think that's cliche? I don't think anybody's probably ever done that here. All right. Well, here, we're going to keep this short and sweet. We got Anderson East on the show today.

Do you know Anderson East? No, I don't know much about him, but I think he's from, is he from Dallas? He is from, I don't know much about him, but I think he's from Dallas? He is from Alabama. Alabama, yeah. But it was a great interview. I can't wait for you to listen to that one. What are we going to do? We're going to have a great week. I'm excited. We're already five

days in. We did the drinking last week. San Juan was insane. I did Puerto Rican ketamine. I never thought I'd do that. I've only done ketamine twice in my life and I thought in a random island was the right place to do it. We hung out with some locals. That was a wild night. Saturday night was wild. Why don't you give them a brief synopsis of what happened Saturday night. All right. Saturday night, old San Juan, First time going down there. It does have like a really old kind of Spaniard kind of town vibe.

Yeah, it felt like I was in Spain. We're talking like cobblestones, you know, really narrow streets, very steep. Beautiful people everywhere. Everybody's so nice. This guy just kind of felt our energy the other night and was like, are you a little band? You guys have a good energy. And then he ended up hanging out.

He just walked up. We were at the bar and we were already pretty fucking buzzed. And we didn't know. It was like 12 o'clock. He's like, you are a band. I can feel it. Then he looked us up. He's like, holy shit, you're in a successful band. He looked like one of the cops from Sabotage. He looked like a super

trooper. Perfect mustache, perfect straight hair, and just like, I like to rock and fucking roll, man. Yeah, and they're like, you want to do some ketamine? You want to do some cocaine? I'm like, I'll do some ketamine. I've never done that. I felt like I was in Denver, but on an island.

It was kind of fun. And then we rocked out, and we went to a house party. A local house party. People from Denver I think it was. A lot of people from America have moved here. Yeah, man. We're just running into all kinds of our buds down here unexpectedly. Yeah. And I had to bail out of there early, but

you guys kept it going until about 5 a.m., didn't you boys? Yeah, we kept up listening to this guy play Grateful Dead songs until about 5.30 a.m. Yeah, I love it. Only in Puerto Rico. Do you know anything about Repsy.com? Do you ever listen to the podcast? Yeah, I mean, I get in there sometimes, bud, and check it out.

You don't fucking watch it. You don't listen to shit. You see me all the goddamn time. Repsy is the company that, like, books the bands, like, you manager kind of stuff, you know? Yeah, why don't you try to do a sell pitch for Repsy? All right, Repsy, guys. This is what's that. You put your stuff in there.

You get a little website going. You get a little this and that going. And they'll find some hand-picked shows for you and say, voila. Oh, Jesus Christ. That's not it at all. Repsy.com. Well, it's half it. Repsy.com.

Go sign your band up for Repsy, and they're going to help you find some shows and voila. And if you are a wedding planner or an independent booker as well, you can sign up. And you can have the bam bam thank you ma'am. Repsy. Full service for musicians trying to do it independent

and venues trying to do it independent and whatnot. So sign up. All kinds of events going on, baby. So sign up for Repsy.com. All right. We're going to have a good day. We're going to snorkel.

We're going to the Black Sand Beach right now. We're going to the Black Sand Beach? Yeah, right over there. Okay. Guys, be safe. I love you. I'll see you next week. Who's on the show next week?

Oh, Gilbert Gottfried. Isn't that crazy? I interviewed Gilbert Gottfried. Love that guy. Dude, he was the best next week. Oh, Gilbert Godfrey. Isn't that crazy? I interviewed Gilbert Godfrey. Dude, he was the best, dude. We were talking about if Dick Van Dyke got pussy. You're going to love that one. Alright, guys. Enjoy Ayrton

East and I'll catch you back in America. No, we're still going to be here this week. Yeah, we got another week and a half. Dude, we got a week. I got to stop drinking. We're taking three days be here this week. Yeah, we got another week and a half, baby. Dude, we got a week. I got to stop drinking. We're taking three days off. We have to.

That's what we do. That's why we came. We got off the ferry and started drinking at the bar. This is not why we came here. I know all you crazy assholes. That's why you're my best friends. Okay. I love you.

I'll see you guys after. Enjoy Anderson East, and we'll catch you later. Up next on the interview hour, we have Anderson East. Yes. One of the great songwriters. He lives in Nashville now. He's just starting to blow up. It's really badass.

Hey, Chris, play some Anderson East. This guy's a workhorse, writes great songs. I'm so excited for you to hear this interview. I think you're going to love it. So ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy Anderson East. Some sort of ground sanctuary So tell me what I wanna hear And see each other crystal clear And inhibitions disappear Oh dear Would you love me if the lights on?

Would you hold me if I don't feel strong To love me with a light song Anderson East, wow, this is awesome. Hey man, thanks for having me. Where are you guys, where are you at right now? It looks like a studio or something. Yeah, it's a studio at my house here in Nashville. How long have you had a studio at my house here in Nashville. How long have you had a studio for?

I've had this place since around August. I used to work out of RCA, the upstairs there, and it was pretty much just a glorified closet. Oh, my God. We've got a little more room to expand now. How important is like being creative to you all the time? I don't necessarily think, you know, all the time is something that is at the forefront in my mind. It's kind of, I'm definitely more of like a

task oriented person like if there's something i'm going for then then i'm like laser focused until that's done yeah uh but you know i always like having something going on but to at least keep me sane from going totally off in the deep end of whatever shit i can drum up in my head yeah like what's uh what do you tend to overthink about a lot that you'd rather be distracted on working man usually it's like just like neanderthal stuff. Like, man, I need to be like cutting the grass or, you know, clearing out brushes and all kinds of, you know, just like weeding the garden,

all that kind of stuff is usually where my brain's at. Just simple, dumb stuff like that. That's awesome. Tell me about your life in Alabama. You grew up in Alabama or did you grow up in Athens, Alabama? I never heard of that.

Where is that near? It's like right in between Huntsville and, uh, like Florence right on, uh, 65. Um, yeah, it was like a small town and, uh, you know, it's, uh, it's rapidly growing now. Um, there's like a lot of, uh, uh, like car manufacturers that are moving in there and so that that little neck of the woods is really blowing up but uh uh yeah man it was it was you know kind of uh there just wasn't a lot going on i always say it's like a it was a good place to be from but uh you know for me whenever i hit that like 17 year old-old mark, I was like, it's time to go. Peace the fuck out, Alabama. I got bigger things to fry.

I've read in a lot of interviews that your grandfather was a big inspiration to you growing up. Was he a pastor or something? Tell me a bit about your grandfather and what he meant to you. a bit about your grandfather and what he meant to you yeah man he uh he actually just passed away about a week and a half ago oh fuck man i'm sorry bro oh well i appreciate it but yeah he he was a great man and yeah he was the uh he was the pastor um so pretty much everybody in our in our family had some kind of role to do in church, whether, you know, like my grandmother was in my aunts were like the Sunday school teachers. My mom played piano. Yeah.

So we were so we were very much that in that that world growing up and and, you know, having him as this patriarchal figure. You know, he was a very wise man and very like manly man outdoorsman, but definitely commanded attention. And so sitting in front of him every, every Sunday and was, was this, I don't know, just a kind of an education in lots of different ways beyond, you know, just learning how to be, you know, have a great example of like what a man actually is and being there for his family, but also to deliver, you know, really complicated, you know, messages to people that just in a way that that was compelling and exciting. What was like the best message, the most important message he taught you growing up? Man, I would think probably, uh, to his ability just to be able to listen was always kind of the,

a big factor, you know, he was never like, you know, this like outspoken person, like in his, in his everyday life, but, you know, was always the one that would, you know, sit there and make you like, what's going on behind all that? So, you know, you at least wanted to, you know, present yourself in the best manner around somebody that has this like stoicism. Yeah, I bet, dude. It's got to be tough, too. Yeah, like, you know, even, you know, he was just never one for noise too either so like uh you know my my mom all he had you know his daughters are all he had was daughters and majority of his grandkids were daughters and so you know when it come to like sunday after after church it's like if y'all gonna be talking that much y'all are going to be talking that much, y'all are going to need to go sit outside. Really? That is funny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You just need to be some quiet time.

That's pretty amazing. So like, did you get into singing like early in your life or did you, like, did it take a couple minutes? Like, what were you doing? Like when you're like 10 years old, what were you passionate about? Like when you're starting to first hear your grandfather talk were you religious was it something you didn't really believe in like tell me about those years before we get into like you leaving alabama and stuff um you know i definitely you know i was in the like the youth choir and all that kind of stuff and uh you know it, it wasn't, I didn't have like a, there was never like a, definitely like any kind of like secular music type thing. But, you know, I remember, you know, getting a solo one time and singing,

you know, my little, you know, prepubescent, high-pitched, gravelly voice. And I was like, oh, I kind of like that. I don't know. I don't know why I like it, but I like the way that felt. And I definitely, just the, you know, kind of the elevation that at least gospel music gives you and kind of that's at its essence is this ability to interface with the divine, you know, right? So that was always super attractive and really moving. I don't remember what the second part of your question was.

So you're singing in the church. Like, who told you that, hey, you actually could do this? Or did you always grow up in music so you knew no matter what you're going to be a musician? always grow up in music so you knew no matter what you're going to be a musician well i mean we you know we had a we didn't have any bars or uh there's no place to for music really to exist in our town right um and so and this was like pre-internet so you would have to go find a bookstore and for me i like what really got me going going was I got one of those Tascam portal ones. What is that?

It's like a little four channel. I've actually got it around here somewhere, but it's just a little cassette recorder had like four tracks. And so that was, I was like, how do you record stuff on this thing and make it sound like this michael jackson record um you know when i'm just sitting in my parents basement just like this isn't making any sense so everything that i ever did was always how do you make it sound like a michael jackson record yeah and so that you know i i had like you know a little middle school band and stuff like that but nobody was ever as passionate as i was so uh so i was like well hell if i'm gonna have to do it

myself i gotta learn how to write good songs i gotta learn how to play and i gotta learn how to sing so it was all you know this kind of the snake eating its own pail kind of thing it was all just to lead back to how can i, I just want to record something. Yeah. So like, it feels like you're very self-sufficient. Like you, uh, whenever you need a task done, you get it done. Like how hard is it for you to delegate work now and like trusting people that they're going to market a record or trusting people that they're going to fucking engineer it or produce it with the, with that idea of like, you know, you're the type of dude,

which I'm learning about, is like, all right, no one else believes in it. I'm going to get this shit done right now. Like, how hard is it to delegate work? Man, that's always been a real struggle for me because, you know, I've used this analogy before, but it's like, it's really difficult to be the race car driver and the pit crew. That's a good fucking point, dude.

You can't change your own tires, you know? So for me, like, you know, my head, you know, I have a very, like, gear-minded head, engineering mind and all that. But, you know, when it comes to being on the other side of the microphone like that's your job that's what you gotta that's that's what you're there for that's what you gotta do and right and and if you're too worried about like oh well what compressor is going to be the right application here or x y and z piece of gear like it's all these just layers of of of like transparency film that's just

ultimately clouding what what you're trying to get and so you know i that was that was my main gig for i i was a i wanted to be a studio engineer so i kind of went to school for that and uh was working in in studios here in town and and then just you know just kind of back ass or just walked into a record deal at some point and then here we are so i've just been fortunate enough to where like i have the skill set and the vocabulary to be able to work in a studio and to express what i want and then i've also been fortunate enough to like be around not only incredible engineers and musicians but uh but also i've been able to see like really good and really bad producers yeah and so you know once you find those people that you're like all right these people are incredibly gifted and talented so i'm

just gonna let them do this part so i can just focus on my my job so what makes a good and what makes a bad producer i think there's a there's it's kind of one of those like it's a delicate dance right it's like you either need somebody who's super focused on what they want and know how to get there or you need somebody that's and i think that ultimately is is the like number one thing but you can also balance that with somebody who has um the want or the ability to just explore yeah but then you know i think i think the i think the greatest thing is to be able to tell somebody to stop like all right we got it yeah the perfectionist the perfectionist in you know probably all of us is like ah well i can do that take better i can do you know i can sing this word

a different way and just have somebody be like no you're done we got the good part of you because you know that's that's just like you know you can never actually see yourself you know for who you are you know you just have to trust that somebody's able to pick out the good part of you and say all right that's good let's just move on because otherwise you'll just kill yourself yeah i mean it's like it's kind of like a sense of insecurity in a way oh certainly yeah that's got to be the toughest part it's like um you know it's like or it's the toughest part is like handing off something you already know how to do and you know you could delegate your time to it but in sense like then you're not giving your full 120 to the actual craft that you're giving you're doing you're singing or writing songs and stuff yeah give me some examples

of some like bad producers you don't you could talk shit but you don't have to say their names or anything but just like what what give me the time when a session that it was just like god damn this is a waste of my fucking time well i mean like uh you know i whenever i was engineering it was never like you know massive records or anything like that but it wasn't you know the producer would just be like on his phone all day you know or just like not engaged with the task at hand i think that was always kind of my frustration that there are other people in the room that are caring more than the person whose job it is to make sure things get done and get done in a good way. Not to say, you know, they're in time to sit out and zone on eBay and look at something. There's definitely a place for that.

But once it gets to a point where it's like the results aren't meeting up, then it's over for me. Yeah. What about, you know, before I want to start getting to your musical career, I got one more question. What was the transition like or what was that moment where it was kind of like you switched from being an engineer, being a producer into being a songwriter, being a musician that's getting record deals? Do you remember the person who told you, hey, you should actually do this? Or did you like randomly get a record deal?

Tell me that transition into the next part of your life. you like tell me that that transition into the next part of your life well um you know i was kind of just like meandering around playing just kind of any kind of pickup shows i could get and um in nashville you know yeah in nashville uh and and yeah there was this one night I got invited to play at this place called the Bluebird, which is like a songwriter place. You know, it's a cool room, kind of a touristy trap. But, you know, it's a good place for songwriters to go make, you know, good money for an evening sitting around with their friends. So it was just kind of one of those nights somebody had invited me to come down and sing a few songs and you know i just had a you know inevitably had a few too many beers and i was like i just gotta i gotta take a piss and so i just stopped the show and made everybody wait while I went to the bathroom and, you know, came back and finished the show.

And this guy walks up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is this is this is all true. And and yeah, after the show, this guy comes up and introduces himself and says, hey, man, my name is dave cobb i'm producer here in town and uh you know this is you know before any of his like you know critical success or anything like that i mean he'd had success before then but not the uh you know the chris stapletons of the world had come come along and he's like hey man that was that was great man why don't you come over the house and and let's figure something out. And so we just clicked and just became like super close friends really fast. And I did some engineering for him. And finally he was like, Hey man, let's, let's record a couple songs. And I was like, dude, I don't have

any money. And so he was like, well, I'll pay, I'll pay to get two songs made. I was like, all right, sounds good, man. And it was like, ah, these are the best two recordings that I'd ever done. I was like, all right, man, this seems like this is the direction that I want to go. And I was still broke and engineering where I could. And finally, he was like, man, why don't you, you know how to, he was redoing the floor in like the lounge part of the studio. He's like,

you know how to do, you know, a standing floor, concrete floors. I was like, hell yeah, dude. And so I had no earthly idea. It looked like, like you know by the time i was done like a cow had given birth and floor that thing it was a disaster oh man so you never had no it never was a no in your vocabulary you just said we're gonna get this done it seems like anderson yeah yeah yeah um yeah it's kind of like man i was just either too naive or too dumb to know any better. It was just like, I knew what I wanted to do. I want to make music.

I want to make records in whatever capacity that is. So I'm going to do it in whatever form comes along. And just one opportunity always leads to something else. So you bartered standing his floor for a whole record or something? What was that? Tell me about that. It was part of it, yeah. It was part of it.

So we made what ended up the Delilah record. And then I was like, what are we going to do? I don't know what to do with it and and then you know he had gotten this kind of jv through atlantic at the time and it's like hey man you want to come on board and be the first record out of this i was like i think it's a terrible move for your career but absolutely so holy shit so jacob believed in you. Not J Cobb, Brent Cobb. Is it Brent Cobb? Dave Cobb.

Dave Cobb, sorry. I'm thinking of Brent. Yeah, Brent's older cousin. Oh, yes. Brent, by the way, is one of the best songwriters on the planet too, dude. Oh, dude. Dude, that family is so talented. That family is so talented.

It's unbelievable. Okay, so Cobb was like was like all right make the record so how now like if how does the deal work when he pays basically pays for the record and he gets you a record deal how does that work and how does like ownership of the album work is essentially like does he own the record because of that or does he uh or is it a different he he's like saying all right well i'm gonna do the next record that that on that record deal how does that work um so uh yeah like whenever it was you know we were starting to figure all that out like i you know i had owned it all and so the the label has kind of bought it from us. And, you know, everybody who played on it was kind of just doing, like,

you know, cousin favors and stuff like that. And so, you know, they went back and had to go through the union and all that fun stuff that they do. And so everybody, it worked out great for everybody. But no, it was never this, like, you know, we're going to do this and you're going to work, I'm going to do this record. It was never that kind of thing. It was like he's always been super encouraging.

Like, man, go do go do you be creative. Find people I'm here to support. And but, you know, again, it's just like a it's you're my friend and then you're just super talented on top of that. So it's just like what an easy working relationship man it's so so we did the next two together so lucky that you met a guy like him so lucky because like you know it's like nashville's filled with all these different types of people and to get a guy like cob right before he starts blowing up, I mean, you had been one of his first big records, right? Or were those first two records with Atlantic,

they didn't sell that well? So he, I think, whenever we had finished the record, I think Isabel's Southeastern record, Jason Isabel's record came out and was just like massive, massive. And, and, and so we were kind of just, and, and Sturgill Simpson, his, uh, that was like metal modern sounds of country music came out around then. And, and, uh, and then, yeah, my record came out and then, you know, went on the road to Sturgill. And that was kind of the inception of everything. And, yeah, we just kind of, you know, had a just kind of had luck of just playing shows.

You know, we were out there doing 200 shows a year for five or six years. And so it was just this just keep churning and keep working and and then that's kind of where i think in my brain everything really clicked was the live show so tell me about that i was well i was used to being just like singer songwriter guy just uh guy, just sitting there, just nothing crazy special. But I was writing these kind of R&B-feeling soul tunes. So once we had this band and had this record, I remember taking the guitar off for the first time,

and I was like, oh, my God, I'm just completely naked up here. I don't know what to do with my hands and my arms. What do I walk? And so it was, that was the, the like barrier of like, okay, this is, this is a different thing now. Yeah. Do you remember the first show that you were real comfortable? Like, Holy shit, dude, i'm becoming a different beast um i don't remember the first one where it like was awesome but i remember uh the there's this place called the basement in town the the OG basement on 8th Avenue. And it was the first time I'd ever sold any place out. And, you know, it was like 150 people, but it wasn't like 150 of my friends.

So, yeah, it was. So it's like actual fans. It wasn't like, oh, people are coming just to hang out with, they're forced to come. It's like, holy shit, I'm starting to grow a fucking fan base i mean i wouldn't call it a fan base but people were people were there and they were excited and uh and so yeah man i remember that and it just it totally blew my mind and i mean even still to this day it blows my mind but uh but yeah it was like okay i took the guitar off and i knew i was like okay you got a couple songs or you're just gonna be up here and i was like okay

this is uh let's fucking go this is the thing that scares me to death so all right i'm gonna run toward that a little more that's fucking fucking great. So are you a competitive guy? I wouldn't say, not to the point to where like, not in an aggressive manner. I definitely like to win. I like to be prepared. Right. But it's not like I don't have the I'm going to win over you kind of thing. That's never been necessarily my musical mentality um you know i'm kind of the of the thought of like there's enough for everybody

oh cool so like when you see sturgill and all these guys starting popping off and you're all like basically all the trajectory of the same records coming down the same year and that never got to you like why why aren't why aren't i as big as sturgill yet or like why aren't i as big as you know isbell what did that ever cross your mind no i i've never had this like grandiose thing because like it's never been my objective to be like the person or to be like this uh uh the i i never had like the look at me's of like i need this to feel important kind of thing like that i didn't need my ego stroke that bad i mean of course i'm a performer and i like to be you know i like claps you know just

to show that like what i'm doing is effective you know right but it was it was never to the point of like of jealousy and especially you know folks like that were um incredibly gifted at their craft so if anything it's it's an inspiration that people like this are succeeding so so that's at least a shot that that myself and other people have to to be able able to go carve their own path and be themselves in the music that they make and be able to work. So any of those kind of things, I applaud that. And I'm like, yes, I'm all for people being successful. What's the vibe in Nashville like?

Is it like that? Is it more people like-minded like that? Or is it more cutthroat competitive? I would say there's probably, in all the music business places I've been, I would say this is definitely the most supportive and collaborative that I've seen because it's a town full of writers

instead of a town full of writers instead of town full of performers. I mean, there definitely is performers for sure and damn good ones at that. But I would say that the songwriting culture here is probably the biggest and the best in the world. the biggest and the best in the world. There's a whole row of houses downtown of everyday people show up as their job, and they're writing two or three songs a day with two or three different people each time. It turns into this,

and then everybody goes to the same bar after everybody gets done writing for the day. So it's very much this community of people that have this, you know, we're just here to write. And so the ego isn't immediately on display. It's like we're here to do the best job we can. we can so we can then give that to an artist you know which usually it's it's either the the producer or the artist in the room just make you know if it's you know kind of a pop scenario right that's that's kind of it and then the exterior songwriters isn't so much of a factor to where here it's like it's a really big deal so what did nashville and what did cob teach you about songwriting um that this i think it's just that the song is always the most important yeah you know and um and to kind of and it's hard again to like strip, strip the ego away from it. Like this is, it's not necessarily,

it's this, I don't know, for me, it's this weird thing of like, you want the personality always to be shown. Right. But it's, it's like, does the song itself, is it good enough without the person singing it to, you know, somebody like Chris Stapleton, like the guy can literally sing the phone book and it'll sound great. And it doesn't matter what the words are, but it just so happens, like Chris is one of the best writers I've ever met in my entire life. And he like, he knows his craft.

And so I don't think he necessarily gets super tied up in like the uh you know everything i'm saying is like it's just it can all be interchanged and be flipped around it's like but it's like you know your craft and if the song can stand by itself then it's a good song and like without the good song it's like good luck right unless you are just this powerhouse vocalist that like can can do anything else so it's just you know don't take it so personal but still don't take the idea of a song not being good so personal and just focus on the song. Oh, that makes sense. If that makes any sense.

That totally does. And you talk about mastering your craft. How long do you think it took you to start feeling like you're mastering the craft of songwriting? Man, I don't know if one ever really gets a firm grasp on it. It's kind of you just show and for your part of the. Yeah, you just show up for your part of the job. And and for me, like I definitely go in waves of like feeling like I mean, like right now, I feel like I'm on the you know, we're coming out of a touring season, like the hardcore, like we're gone for months to where it's just self-preservation mode yeah not much else can really exist there so i'm just like it's it's it's a muscle so like

if you you just got to get back into the the gym and and get that muscle strong again and i think it's just a matter of repetitions and you know keeping that flex going how long does it normally take after a tour season for you to get back into like record mode um i think it just depends i would say like typically around like a month or so for me yeah just because you know we kind of do like about a month, month and a half on the road, a week or two home, and then we'll do that three or four times. So once it's all kind of over with, for me, it's like, you know, I like the, again, like the Neanderthal stuff. It's like when I hang up with you like i'm gonna paint the fence you know makes it's just like stuff like just everyday kind of uh things that for me i take for granted when i'm when i'm gone that it's like i i just need to get back to like being

a person again and being just like i need my brain to turn this other kind of noise off. So once I get back to music, it's like I have a, I at least know where I want to go and I at least have some enthusiasm about getting there. So balance is important to you? Well, I think it's just like a, it's like a palate cleanser you know it's like after you you're eating this one thing so much it's like you just need a little bit of just normalcy just to get you back in the headspace of like okay we can be creative again

we got the uh all the laundries put up you know the grass is cut painted the fence you know spend some time with the girl took her out to eat all these things that that if you're home all the time you just kind of that just kind of works normally yeah you know if i'm home writing all the time it's like well i still got my evenings to be able to go do x y and z but you know if you're gone for a month that's a month fourth of those little things that you start to miss totally so my thing is that's like i i love being you know out and touring and stuff like that but also love like the the little things that make life important and so i feel like i just gotta

like shove all that's that missed opportunity there's some something i was reading talking about things called social strokes tell me about it and it's like it's like if you were uh i can't remember the name of this book but um just say like if you're at an office building and you know every day you walk by you know your co-workers desk and you say hello it's like count that as a stroke. Right. And you do you build up all these social strokes to where you have this kind of like expectation of all these strokes that are getting met throughout the week and say you go on vacation, you know, you come back and then you stop back by that same person's desk instead of just hello. Well, hey, how are you? We went on vacation. Uh, how are the kids? What's been going on? And so you're, you're, you're condensing all those tiny little strokes into this one moment.

Um, so I kind of like just view that about just everyday life of like, okay, we've been gone for a month. So I need to condense a month worth of things into like a couple of weeks. No, I just feel like I got everything back. No, that totally it's yeah. You're, you're totally right about it.

It's like, it's like a regroup, you know, it's like a, like a, like a team taking a timeout. Yeah. Have a little Gatorade break.

Have a little Gatorade break. Um, yeah, I totally, I'm like that too. I do about 250 shows a year. And, um, you know, when I'm on, when it just takes a second to readjust and I need to have, I call it OCD, but like, I need to have like my things cleaned and my fucking, you know, the whole detox ready to go before I could like get, jump back into it or start getting burnt out. You get burnt out a lot? Yeah. I wouldn't say a lot, but I mean, yeah, I think it's just repetitive motion.

And, you know, it's like, you know, one o'clock sound check, you know, all this, you know, take a shower, day room, play the show, after show. It's like, after you do that so much you're like okay i need to do something else yeah like is that so basically so like doing norm the normalcy of something kind of freaks you out you need to have you need to be doing you need to like juggle a few different things yeah i like having having stuff going on yeah you know

that's great and i and i like you know i'm i like working with my hands a lot you know i very much have that engineer brain to where like i need to be doing something making something fixing something like that just calms me down if i don't have that kind of just, you know, a small, like just, you know, fixing the cabinets or something like that, just something keeping me a little occupied and moving and touching stuff. You know, I just rewired the studio and it's like, that's my happy place, man. That's sick, man. What about any parts in your career, like maybe one album or two albums or whatever where you felt like the

trajectory of where you think you should be versus who who's helping you like it's not you're not seeing the same thing does that make sense like is there like was there like a record or something that you thought was going to be bigger and it just wasn't your time yet um i mean i i kind of i'm just astounded that people will listen to me anyways like it whether they're success or not i'm just like yeah there's way better stuff to listen to y'all you're being sweet and then you're fucking sick well thank you very much for saying that but uh yeah you know i think uh i don't really have any kind of grounds to say like i have no idea like i don't think uh you know it's it's like what do you put yourself against are you like comparing your work to like a, a Aretha Franklin record? Like, get out of here.

Right. It's like, so I just have to start to detach all that. It's like, all I can do is just show up for me and how people, you know, perceive it. That's up to them. How long did it take you to like really like understand that um i mean i think i'm still trying to like fully understand it but it's to you know there's like a like a healthy emotional detachment that I'm trying to like preserve now of

like, cause it's, you know, like even like this, this last record we, we put out, like, you know, I took a lot of like a, a lot of emotional burden on unwarrantedly, unwarranted or unwarrantedly. i don't know which one's the right word um but yeah like i don't know the attachment of like this is me and this is what i'm trying to say it's like i'm trying to lose that because the things that i've found that that work the best for me are like the the detachedlessness. You know, it's the childhood impulse that probably got us both started. It's that curiosity and like, just wanting

to explore the possibilities of something and just being reckless with it. And usually those are the moments that work out the best. Right. And, but again, like my engineer brain and perfectionist side just was like, well, if we just work a little harder at it, it'll be better. And that's unfortunately not usually the case. It's true, man. You're totally spot on. It's overthinking. It's like, yeah.

Well, I was talking to Dave about this. We went down to Muscle Shoals and we're working on this project and, you know, we were kind of having a similar conversation. And I was talking to him, I was like, well, how do you how do you just walk into the room? And he's like, look, man, you just have to leave room for magic. And that sentence has stuck with me ever since he said it. And it's like, that's so true. You know, it's like you can't tame this wild force of whatever we're trying to, you know, be in balance with. And if you try to just, it's the same with any kind of, you know, whether it's a relationship or, or friendship or anything like So I'm like even more so I'm just like, how do we just keep providing space for there to be magic? Right. So, and it's basically leaving a little bit off the end for magic to grow.

It's such a good point, Ian. You can't control magic. It just has to come. It's like forcing love. You can't force love. That magic needs to come or you're trying too hard. Right. Exactly. It's to where you've got to be prepared and you have to have honed your craft and you have to be able to perform when it's your time to perform, whether that's in, you know, your writing muscle. Like that's something you have to practice doing. You know, you have to learn the craft of it and then, you know, keep that muscle, you know, in balance, but also have the recklessness, you know, just to say some, some weird shit, you know, and then he goes, ah, well that just opens this X, this other little place or, you know, so it's, it's this, everything's this dance of, you know, of doing your best and being professional at whatever you're doing,

but still being a child and having that, that sense of wonder and, uh, and, and spot spontaneity. And like, isn't that the reason why we do music in the first place is that spontaneity that when we were kids,

we've, that's what made us the happiest is when we made shit out of our ass, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My, my trumpet yeah, yeah. My trumpet player, he always pulls the dad joke and he goes, they don't call it playing for a reason

or something like that. Or it's called playing for a reason. It's like, yeah, man, we're just playing. None of this is super serious. But it's also the most serious thing that is. It keeps blowing my mind. I like seeing both sides of everything of like, you know, after we get done with the show, I'm like, this is so absurd.

I know dude, I'm the same way bro. It is so stupid, but it matters so much. I know. You know, like it it means everything and nothing in this like gorgeous way that yeah it's just hard to like you can't just start to define things it's i don't know isn't that life too yeah man yeah man yeah just like It makes me restless. I'm like, oh, shit. Yeah, me too, man. It's like life is the most beautiful thing.

And if we don't leave any room for magic, then we start getting restless. It's like that fine balance of being prepared for the moment, whatever life gives you, but also being prepared for a little improv. Yeah. See what life is all about. Tell me more. Oh man, I'm so, I'm so this is, you have amazing story, man.

Tell me more about Dave and what his process is when you're making a record. Like what does he teach you about like just building a whole project as a whole? Or does it not even matter? I don't think it's this, at least for me, it's never, I don't know,

again, it's that balance, but it's never, we're walking in to do this like grandiose thing, right? It always, the song has to be there. Right. That's the number one and but you know and a lot of people i've worked with you know they're big into pre-production

you know it's all this time beforehand like okay let's go through the songs work it up fiddle everything down and it's just an exhaustive period and usually like um uh people that do demos as well like there's none of that so if like if anything it's just like granted this last record you know with uh with coven and everything kind of put a different spin on that but uh but typically it's just like walk in with kind of just like an iPhone recording and just strum it through on guitar. And the band's just sitting there. And you just sit on a couple couches and just hash out the song for 20, 30 minutes.

And then just walk over and cut it. Not overthink it. What you get is what you get. Yeah, don't overthink it. Not overthink it. That's such a difference between how you... Have you ever made any records in LA? No, I've never really made any records.

I've gone to write, but I've never made anything out there. Yeah, it's like the idea... I grew up in LA and making records in LA versus making... I made a couple records in Nashville versus LA is just like, yeah, you're totally right. They're all about pre-production and all these like little ambiances.

And like literally I did a writing session with like seven dudes and then we just go in the studio the next day and just play the iPhone voice memo. And they're like, all right, let's, let's start from here. I think it's a better way to do it because you're not overthinking the process as much instead of like going to the core of it.

And the core is the songs, right? Yeah. And, and, and the moment, you know, it's hard to,

it's hard to like recreate a, uh, a thing. That's why I like, I feel like demos, I would say on the average are, uh, probably a net negative.

If this is the way you're going to, if you're going to make a record with, with a band and that kind of way, I think making a demo is probably a bad call because, because what, what I've found is there'll be one thing about the demo that is undeniable. And it's so special and just kind of captures the essence of, of the,

of the track. And then once you go to make the record, you're doing everything in your power to get that one thing that you saw special to get that back. And you're not going to get it back and you will go crazy trying. Oh, fuck. It's much better just to let it be in that moment. Yeah.

When you're finally ready to let the trigger be pulled, just do it all right there. Yeah. Or you'll go nuts. Has there ever been a moment where you're trying to chase a demo all the time every time i've ever made a demo and then try to make it as a record it's like okay but can we can we just like steal that and stretch it around because usually like you know we're not using a click track or anything so there's no just like flying choruses and there's not like

usually there's none of that so it's just like what song do you still like good luck yeah exactly what song do you still fucking cringe about from a demo versus

all of them oh let's go you're a perfectionist I love it I love it with the sound effects you know what time it is You're a perfectionist. I love it. I love it. With the sound effects.

You know what time it is. We're a real talk show here now. Hell yeah. That's great. Oh man. That's got to kill you. So you said for your own mental health, you're like, fuck it. I'm not doing demos anymore. We're going to make this record and we're just going to go in there and put our dicks out there and fucking get it. Yeah. Well, I mean, so so on this on this last record on maybe we never died you know there was a large portion of time where people couldn't be around other human beings so yeah um so you know i was just up in my my room working and and my writing sessions were turning into these demos.

And then so I was like, well, this is the frame we're going to have to work off of because we don't really have any other options at the moment. And so I had to learn a whole nother skill set of just how do we, if we're going to be working off this fixed grid type system, how do we leave we're going to be working off this fixed grid type system how do we leave room for the humanity at least tempo wise right um so you know if we're working with you know eight or 16 bars that is going to be you know like some kind of loop that we're writing to it's like all right so how do we manipulate the inside of that eight bars that will then repeat, you know, to where it's not so rigid. Yeah. And then, and then we had, you know, once we'd had

that kind of framework, we had Nate Smith, who's like one of the most ridiculous drummers in the world come and and kind of like assess that in a live scenario and then we go okay well that feels really good but it's still it's like too off in in some certain direction so it's like okay how do we go from kind of robotic feel to humanistic and then find the balance between the two to make it all cohesive and work so it's this real interesting kind of uh trying to like have your cake and eat it too yeah and did you like the process this way or was it harder for you in your head it was harder for me um just because you know there was no you know we got to get this done by this date kind of thing

so you're just kind of left to your own devices being able to sit around and play with stuff which was great yeah you can overthink but I did have the ability of just like exploring things and exploring different sounds

that I just normally wouldn't do and and and and my writing process changed and so it was all these different you know factors kind of going into it um and i'm grateful that i've got the skill set now to be able to whatever comes up in the future, I'll be able to hopefully address. I'm grateful for it, but I definitely hope that we don't have to do it like that again.

I feel that. It's so funny, you overthink it. Was this one of the most successful records you ever had? I have no idea. I don't really pay attention to any of that. I'm clapping to that too. Let's go. Humble B, let's go.

You talk about the new writing process. You got a couple more minutes for me? Is that cool? Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, you talk about this new writing process for this new record. What was your mindset? Did you push back a little bit on learning this new type of writing process, or did you fully accept that this is what it is,

I'm just going to be an open vessel? It was kind of like a waiting game. You know, it was because usually how we would go about making a record, it would be this in-between period of tours. So we would go in and do a week and then come back a month later and do a week. Right. And this time, we were kind of expecting that to be the case. You know, it started with the two weeks to slow the spread thing.

And then it was six months later. And then you're like, I'm going to have to figure something out real quick. Yeah, I bet. And once that kind of happened, you know, I was just like, well, if I'm here and I'm writing, I might as well, what would it sound like? I want, at the end of the day, for it to sound like it could be on a record. So how do we approach writing toward that goal? Instead of, I just need to chunk through this on acoustic acoustic guitar and we'll worry about it later right um so it's these two different mindsets of uh it was just kind of exploring sonically what what was inspiring in that moment and then making it lyrically match or vice versa

um so it was just yeah it was just a different way of approaching your day when usually it's just like sit down at the piano or just on a guitar and it's this hyperhuman way of writing to where this was like, well, let's just go into it with like, this is the record. Yeah. Do you like working as a collaborator? Or do you like working by yourself when you're writing songs? I like writing with other people.

Yeah. I kind of think of, I admire the lonesome songwriter i think it's like this uh uh picturesque kind of idea but i just know that it's kind of like drinking to where like if you you sit around and drink by yourself for too long it gets really sad and really dark and really morose and um it just turns into a pit it's hard to crawl out of to where you know you gotta have a beer or two with a couple buddies you have a way better time you laugh a lot you have interesting conversations and you ultimately get to a different place that you wouldn't get to by yourself yeah that you wouldn't get to by yourself.

Both have their own valid places, but for me, I've just been fortunate to be around some of the best songwriters in the world, and they're my friends. Yeah, sick. So why wouldn't I want to hang out with those people? Totally. Did you ever get, like, talk about substance abuse a little bit.

Did you ever get into, like, you know, drinking by yourself, alcoholism, coke or any of that stuff? Or you always never really stayed clear? No, nothing crazy. I think probably the worst. I've gotten like really aggressive panic attacks in my early 20s. From what? You know, I don't really think there was like a, a like determining factor, like a kind of an onset.

I think it was just, you know, just coming of age and realizing that the world like nobody's coming to help kind of thing. And so, you know, and then it's it's just you know that was like kind of before you know the uh you know there was like a big uh movement of the the mental health world and all this shit and so you just felt it was very isolating and it means i thought i was going crazy and like i was the only one in the world dealing with it. Yeah, like hopeless. Yeah. And it's just fearful to where you're like, I'm just scared of this thing.

And then that fear ultimately brings it back on. It's a regulatory revolving door kind of thing. And so, you know, I was on, you know, a lot of medication for that for a long time. And ultimately like that just, it just ended up doing the exact opposite of, of, uh, what it was supposed to. And then, uh, then finally I was just like, well, something's got to give. So I was like, well, hell man,

I'm just going to go literally run the devil out of me and just started just, that was the only thing that ever like really clicked was just work it out. Yeah. And it's so crazy. Like, um, we can like try to rely on drugs or pills and stuff to, uh, help us, but we also need to figure out what's triggered them in the first place too. That's you you got you said what you said was so spot on run the devil out like do you remember your first panic attack and what did you think it was a heart attack or like what what was that day when you're like because i didn't get

panic attacks until my 20s too and i didn't even know what they were all of a sudden one day i felt like i was having a fucking heart attack. I remember I was driving. I think it was like after I was, I think I graduated college and I was driving back to Alabama and I cracked my neck and I thought I was about to die. So I didn't know what the hell was going on. While you were driving or did you get in an accident? No, I was just, I was about to die so I didn't know what the hell was going on and while you're driving or did you get an accident no I was just I was just driving and I just like you know and just ghost

white had to pull over I was like oh my god I don't know what to do and uh and then finally I made it down and uh you know I pretty much lay in the bed for like two days. So I had no idea. And I was like scared to tell anybody what was going on. You didn't ask for help? Nothing? No, I didn't even know how to ask. I didn't know what was, I didn't know what the hell these things were.

And it was just, it would not let up. And then finally my dad was like, i think i know what's going on here so he's like get in the truck and uh he drove me to the emergency room and uh i remember him and because he he's dealt with them as well so he had a pretty good idea what the hell was going on and uh we get into the like the waiting room he's like uh how you feeling it's like feeling pretty good feeling pretty good he's like you know why are you feeling pretty good it's like he's like you're at you're just at a place to where you know they can help you yeah and that was enough that's that's like and so he he gave me like the best advice ever that, you know, correlated to that. And just so much of what life is, is like, you know, next time you feel that shit coming on, just tell yourself, like, make it as bad as it can be.

Oh, my God. This is going to happen. Make it the worst it's going to be. And usually once you, you know, it's that, you know, staring at the dragon thing to where it starts to shrink, you know. And you look at it clear in the face and it just starts to dissipate. When you start becoming less fearless about it, it dissipates.

Or yet. Dude, what a great... Shout out to your fucking dad, dude. He understood panic attacks. I'm going to give that some love too. It's true. Once we know... He's a good dude. Once we know that we could have help, it's like, why do we convince ourselves that we shouldn't communicate when really communication is the best way to get help? Yeah, absolutely, man.

And I honestly cannot stress like just exercising. Yeah. Just do something with your body. Yeah. That's more and more like I find out with anything. just exercising. Yeah. Just do something with your body. Yeah. Because that's, that's more and more like I find out with anything. It's like, we all have like the caveman inside of us that just needs to get that caveman expression out.

Right. Whatever it is. Right. You know, for me, it's like doing yard work or like, just go run, just make your body move and you'll just feel better.

You will feel better. Man. And this has been great, bro. We got to hang out sometime, bro. I'm going to be in town in a couple of weeks. Um,

I'll, I'll shoot you a message. I'll give you my number, but let's hang out. Let's go like have a beer and like, let's, I, you know,

I've been a fan of you forever and, um, all my friends in Nashville know you pretty well or not pretty well, but just see you, I've been a fan of you forever and, um, all my friends in Nashville know you pretty well or not pretty well, but just see you around and you're a good dude. I just want to listen. We should be friends, bro. I would love that. I love that, man.

Fuck yeah. I got one last question. Um, I'm thinking about your grandfather a lot. I know how much he meant to you. How hard was his death? death man it was uh it was it is it still is tough uh it was uh it was tough but it was uh pretty incredible um Just seeing and hearing from like, you know, he was a pastor, you know, a majority of his life and was always there for everyone. You know, our family, everyone else in the community's family. everyone else in the community's family.

So just to see how much better the world was because of him was, is incredibly inspiring and motivating to like, to also, you know, hopefully, you know, when, when, when my day comes that, you know, hopefully, you know, when, when, when my day comes that, you know, not to have, you know, people gushing about me, but just, you know, to be able to look back and be like, things are better because I existed. Yeah. And, and how much, you know, I think that that's all of our goal, right? I think like we're, we're here. Everything is fleeting, right? But, and, and the things you think are important one day don't mean shit a week from now. now and and it it ultimately just boils down to to people and your family and your friends

and and just how much you how much love you can put out there in the world in whatever capacity that is and um so for that like as as difficult difficult and different as the world will be, you know, going forward without him, it's the gratitude of having had him and having seen, you know, the expression, you know, or well done, good and faithful servant. Like, yeah. Was he proud of you? Was he proud that you followed your dreams? Yeah, I think so. I think so. I mean, he, he's definitely told me, he told me as such and you know, him and everybody in my family has always been incredibly supportive, far beyond like what I would probably if I had a child and they were doing this. There's no way. Yeah.

Let's rethink some things. But everybody's always. Yeah. They're always my my biggest cheerleader. It's fucking great. so you talk about super grateful that's awesome i got one last question and then i'll let you go do your fucking thing go paint that house buddy and um i got um you talk about what what you want your grandfather to be remembered by what about you what do you want to be remembered by when you're when you're long and gone man i think it's just that i think i think

that things were better because you existed yeah um you know and you know whether it's music you know i get you know every day like somebody it's you know, like a song that's played at their wedding or, you know, this, something meant something like it just blows my mind, like how involved you can be in someone's life and you don't even know. And, and this one thing you did this one time has gone out and found its own legs in the world and not necessarily made an impact, but it's been a part of all these people's lives in a helpful manner. Yeah. And I think that's that's really incredible. And I'm really grateful to have that opportunity to be able to make things like that and to share things like that. And then super grateful to be able to witness it. And, you know, people share that with me. And so I think that's kind of my my main goal now is like how to be good to to. It's like how to be good to those around me and my friends and family and hopefully show them, you know, their meaning to me.

And just, yeah, it's to make heaven here on earth. Yeah. Ooh, heaven is a place on earth. Hell yeah. I appreciate that, man. It's beautiful to hear. And I don't want to speak for everyone, but I feel like you're doing that, buddy.

So thank you. Well, that means we're on. I appreciate you saying that. Fuck yeah, bro. Well, have a great day. Go fucking mow that lawn, big daddy. Go enjoy your time off. And let's get back to making records, buddy. Let's do it that lawn. Big daddy, go enjoy your time off and let's get, let's get back to making records, buddy. Let's do it, man. Well, thanks Andy. I appreciate it, brother.

Cheers, bro. And I'll hit you up. I'll, I'll shoot you a message on Instagram. I think we're Instagram friends, so we'll, uh, we'll make it happen. Beautiful. All right, buddy. Have a great night. Hands and knees, everyone. Thank you. Later, bro. Be good. Bye. You tuned in to the World Cipher Podcast with Andy Fresco, now in its fourth season. Thank you for listening to this episode, produced by any fresco joe angelo and chris lawrence we need you to help us save the world and spread the word please subscribe rate the show give us those crazy stars itunes spotify wherever you're picking this shit

up follow us on instagram at world saving podcast for more info and updates fresco's blogs and tour dates you find at andy frescoco.com. And check our socials to see what's up next. Might be a video dance party, a showcase concert, that crazy shit show, or whatever springs to Andy's wicked brain. And after a year of keeping clean and playing safe,

the band is back on tour. We thank our brand new talent booker Mara Davis. We thank this week's guest, our co-host, and all the fringy frenzies that help make this show great thank you all and thank you for listening be your best, be safe and we will be back next week