Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 169: Shovels & Rope and Little Stranger (A Charleston Episode)

Episode Date: April 26, 2022

Step right up to this Charleston themed, double header of an episode! On Part 1 of the Interview Hour we welcome melodic hip-hop duo, Little Stranger, and follow it up in Part 2 with masterful folk power couple, Shovels & Rope. Get to know Charleston a little better thru these rad humans who just wanna sprinkle some tasty ear candy into your life. Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out Andy's new song, "Puff Break (Believe That)" on iTunes, Spotify  Check out Charleston's gems: Little Stranger and Shovels & Rope Produced by Andy Frasco Joe Angelhow Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: The U.N. Shawn Eckels Arno Bakker

Hey guys, Andy. How we doing? Hope you're having a kick-ass Tuesday. Great week. We're gonna have a great fucking week. Let's go. This is a fun episode. We are actually gonna be highlighting a city. Charleston, South Carolina. We're gonna have bands from Charleston, South Carolina on the show tonight. Shovels and Rope and Little Stranger. Two for one. Getting your money's worth today. and Little Stranger. Two for one. Getting your money's worth today. No voicemails today, but I wanted to... We have this good live mix Jason got of us

from Richmond, Virginia of a song I actually wrote in Charleston, South Carolina called Dancing Around My Grave. I wrote it with Susto and Doom Flamingo, Ryan Stasek and the crew. I thought I'd open the show with this version from Richmond, Virginia last week when we went on tour with Twiddle. And then we'll get going.

Let's have a great show tonight. And ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy a live version of Dancing Around My Grave. This song's important to me. This song's called Dancing Around My Grave. Ladies and gentlemen, help me sing this song because we don't know

when it's our turn to leave the party. So we might as well celebrate life right fucking now. Do you agree, Richmond, Virginia? Hell yeah. Always going somewhere. Yeah, I'm living fast. 90 miles an hour.

No brakes, all gas. If I die tomorrow, don't be dressed in black. Need a couple favors instead of feeling sad. My mom, I loved her, my daddy too To all my lovers, my words were true Hey, everybody on the floor, two-step and stay no more Oh, everybody in the back, jump up and clap your hands

Celebrate what we had Celebrate what we had Richmond, fucking Virginia I want power, 10, bitch Hell of a big parade Dressed up and going nowhere Dancing around my grave No surprise, I'm leaving

We all gotta go Might make it to 100 But then I'm ready for sure My kids, I love to read Tell my thinking's too abundant But then I'm ready for sure My kids I love to read Tell my grandkids too And if I got great-grandchildren Love what you do Hey, everybody on the floor

Two-step and say no more Oh, everybody in the back Jump up and clap your hands Celebrate what we have Celebrate what we have Celebrate what we have Oh, if there's a heaven, baby No, I'll see you there Said I'll see you there

Well this is all I got That's okay too All of it's real All of it Yeah Hey It was so Real Yeah, hey, it was so real

Give it up for Andy Alva singing like that on the drums. Come on, clap it up. It's time to celebrate life again, goddammit. You know what time it is! It's time to be happy again, come on! One, two, three, four! Hey, everybody on the floor Two step and say no more

Oh, everybody in the back Jump up and clap your hands Hey, everybody on the floor Two step and say no more Hey, everybody on the floor Two-step and say no more Oh, everybody in the back Jump up and clap your hands Celebrate what we had Celebrate what we had

Celebrate what we had Always going somewhere Celebrate what we had Yeah, I'm living fast Nineteen miles per hour No brakes, all gas Goodbye, thank you very much, Richmond Hey guys, it's Andy. How we doing? Hope we're fucking up this Tuesday. Let's go.

No voicemails this week, but we are going to do a special episode. We are going to feature the bands of Charleston, South Carolina. Yes, I love that city. You know how much I love that city because I'm always fucking there on my time off. First up on the interview hour, we have Little Stranger. These guys are badass. I first got to hang out with them. I hung out with them a little bit at a festival in Charleston.

I forgot. It was called Skinful where it was a bunch of naked people in a field. And it was just chaos. So I wasn't really fully focused on being their friends because there was just so many just drugs and naked people. But I got to hang out with them at the Umphreys, the holidays in Mexico, and that's when I really got close to them.

We got to do an interview. I love these guys. It's like hip-hop but funky. It's a great producer, great lyricist. These guys are the shit, and they have a crazy story. And I love this band, and I love their fight to keep it going in the music industry. So, Chris, play a little bit of Little Stranger, and let's enjoy this first interview. One of two, baby.

You get a double banger today. Let's go. I like me. I like me. I like you. I like the possibility of us two. I think we could be cool. So if you're feeling, want to feel it, come through. I like me.

I like you. I like the possibility of us two. I think we could be cool. So if you feel it, when the feeling come through. A couple inches in the future. I got the boys in here. Jono, Kevo,

little strangers, boys. What's up, daddy? Hey, baby boys. What are you doing? We're just trying to break into the Friday of the week, trying to make it happen. We took, I think,

an Andy Frasco speedball before this. Weed and anxiety? Yeah, straight up the b-hole. Just add Bailey's and Jameson, you got it. What got you into hip-hop and stuff? Give me the background for the people who don't know your band. Give it to them, John. All right.

Kevin and I, we met each other in high school we both named shields i know i saw that too that's kind of creepy and i love that yeah yeah uh we're like sort of married so it makes sense i guess that we share where'd you guys live last name we were up a suburban philadelphia oh killer so grew up there um met each other in high school he and i though both played in two different bands through college and beyond. And then we only linked up when we were like, I guess, 25 probably. Yeah, 25, 2015.

We like really started to get after it a little bit. Linked up in Philly and started making like a little side project. We had like hopped on stage together when we did Philly shows and knew there was a good vibe there. And then, yeah, made a side project that turned out. Immediately, we were both on the same page. Really, our love for the hip-hop thing came from, we were both so amped on Gorillaz at the time. Hell, yeah.

I could see that in your music for sure. Hell, yeah, dude. So that was like our hip- hop mixed with melodic choruses was kind of like the Damon Albarn special. And so that was kind of like where my, I guess, as far as production goes for us, that was my influence. Kev's always been more of a hip hop head than me. And you know, what were you going to say, Kevil?

I was just going to say Philly and the Roots. That's what I was going to say. There's got just going to say Philly and the Roots that's what I was going to say there's got to be G-Love, all these cats I really feel like Philly is hip hop yeah it's got that grittiness, literally they named a mascot after it

they're embracing how ugly and semi fucked up it all is but that does. It brings hip-hop with it. It's always been a more grimy musical style. So what was your first break as a band? Was it in Philly or did you guys go south? Tell me about that.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know if we've had a break yet. Or just the confidence to keep doing it. Yeah, I had to come down. I came to College of Charleston. Yeah. And you're very familiar with Charleston and how cool the scene is here. Oh, hell yeah.

But I've been here 13 years now. And so this is by far the coolest it's been in the whole time I've been here. Yeah. It's just developed in such an awesome way. And the players all support each other here. So I moved back to Philly after college when me and kev linked up and kind of told him i was like i have plans to go back down um because i know i can make money there as a musician and i'm already set on that but i wrote him this email like a like a full love letter. Yeah. To whom it may concern.

Yeah, yeah. I was like, hey, bud, so I'm going. If you could just break up with everyone else in your life and come down to Charleston, that would be sick. And Kev made the leap and came down. What did you see in him that made you take the leap? Well, dude, it's crazy because pretty much since high school, the band john was in

before this long miles was always like they were like the peak of like in high school they were the best band they were winning all the battle of bands right going to college like they were the only they were the only band that we knew of our age that was like you know what we thought was successfully touring what was you know same old shitty stuff in a van but like but so i i always i always knew john was incredible songwriter wordsmith which is like the hip-hop part like his john's turn of phrase and stuff is like something we really kind of connect on so i'd kind of always looked up to his band because we'd i'd always been the kind of little more like weirdo dude in the background right um so it was pretty sick when like i mean just when we wanted to work on a couple tracks,

we were like, oh, this is going to be awesome. And then pretty quickly, we were like, well, this is better than pretty much the culmination of everything we've done before. Right. It's got to be amazing. So you guys moved to Charleston. Did you start writing more tunes?

Did you go on tour? What was the first steps of when you when when you got your brother back into charleston right yeah we um so we put out our in 2015 a album called boot of the beast and it was uh that was really sort of just like it's meant to be this fun side project it ended up being our initial release and then when kev came down we linked up with uh caleb coker who's now our co-manager and has been our booking agent since i met him i met him at um that uh halloween show we did together oh yeah hell yeah yes oh yeah and that's dude he's our just our boy and like since day one he called me one day he had just left caa and he was doing like intern

work and doing a bunch of like the kind of grunt work for that company he left but learned a ton about how to i don't know issue contracts and the whole thing the way booking works and he was super driven by it hit us up and he was like recognized that we were still grinding after having both had bands that fell apart and we were like starting over and so he was like i want to book you so me and kev kind of from day one we only had like a certain amount of material to even tour on but we were like just put us on tour as much as we possibly can so we did like three years of just like 120 shows a year just circuit bar circuits and not even you know we were making up songs for the last like hour of the night that's what i was gonna say like if you only have like

five or seven songs and you have to play for three hours like how did that what's what's hour three sound like on on the fucking bar it's a lot more intoxicated and then but but you get some gems every now and then from it so we've had like what two or three songs come from oh yeah i mean me and you our number one streaming song came from just a live show improv session and just like luckily we were able to remember it yeah you know that's a voice memo of it you know while you're playing and you're like that that could be cool that could be something you know. Our stories are very similar that way, because I think working the bar hustle

with only five or six songs makes you as entertainers better, because you really have to have that gift of gab or learn it, because you could basically play the same songs again and just change the vibe of the tune. Did it feel like it made you better entertainers for doing that bar scene for three years like that? Oh my God, dude. That's where we got our chops completely.

Sharpened us to steel. What was the worst? What was the biggest bomb? Probably Florida. One of those Florida runs. We would do it. We played a strip mall. We played both sides of the strip mall two nights in a row

and I remember the guy was like I think we got 400 bucks to play for four hours and we were like damn we're fucking rushing right now we were in a sedan I made some bad choices. What'd you do?

Just went home with a lovely, I don't know, 40-plus-something-year-old. Oh, you're chasing the cougars there, buddy. No, no, oh, no. There wasn't a chase. It was more of an acceptance at the time, which still felt like a big deal. But, yeah, she tried to choke me out, and then her car died, and then we had to wait for AAA.

Hold on, what do you mean? She was having sex with you aggressively, or what? Very, very. It was the most scared I've ever been. Hold on, so you're having sex, and all of a sudden she starts choking you. Could you cum? Did you cum? Oh, no, not at all not not even close did you have sex in a car give me all the details yes it was a minivan with automatic side doors

um this is hilarious because we were couch surfing on this tour yeah cool so glad this is going here let's go Mom. Hey, Mom. What happened? I stayed with this guy named Alex who brought us in via couch surfing. He didn't know what he was. The opposite lifestyle of what we all do. He was like a computer tech or something. I believe he worked for Google or something. He gave us some Google speakers at the end.

Well, that... He gifted us speakers at the end. Sorry, let me rewind real quick. We come back home after the gig that night and we're like, what up, Alex? Me and Alex were looking out the window at Kevin and this woman in a minivan.

He was like, this is the wildest shit I've ever seen. Oh my god we watch it all go down the triple a guy has to come and yes the car yeah i gotta wait with this poor woman and then before we left alex gave us um a google it was like the alexa the google version of alexa and he was like i only give these to my best friends that's got to be a bonding experiment you know yeah yeah so how'd you defuse the bomb like you you wait you waited for her like a good gentleman right i mean i i tried i tried to continue as much as possible but it was it was pretty soon it was pretty soon after that that i was like i was like i'm out i'm out this has been fun but i'm i'm so out and then i

you know said the goodbye and then her car won't start because we had the AC running the whole time. And then it's just like, ah. I feel like it was in a Curb episode. Then your gentleman instincts have to go full effect. You're like, well, fuck, do I leave? Shout out to you. Let's go.

Let's go. Let's go. Like a true gentleman. He is a gentleman. Thanks for that. Thank you. The motto of our high school is boys will be boys, but LaSalle boys will be gentlemen.

I love it. We live by that. I love it. So what's going on? What do you have for your future? What's going on? Oh, man. Well, we just put an album out last month,

or I don't know when this is going to air, but in November. And that was the culmination of like probably two plus years going through some bullshit with the label all types of stuff just trying to get music out we finally got that out so we're kind of riding high on that for a good minute now what the song trip around saturn trip around saturn yes they're hell yeah uh so we've kind of just been trying to ride high on that, keep promoting it, do the whole once it's out, that doesn't mean it's over, guys. You got to keep promoting it. You got to do

the damn thing because a lot of these bands, I get it. When you drop an album, you're like, we did it. We did it. But that is rarely close to the end of promotion. That's when it all begins, which is what's fucked up about it because nowadays labels don't promote shit. You have to like, you're doing double duties now.

Yeah. You're doing double duties. They want you to make reels. They want you to make TikToks. You got to like, you know. Are you on TikTok? I try, but I'm like, I'm too old for that shit. I don't want to be dancing.

I'm not like a good like, you know, doing the hand dance and shit. Yeah, yeah. Well, you've just established you're just good, like, speaking truthfully to the camera. So I think that's just what people expect now. They're like, all right, Angie's going to tell us he's tired. He's going to tell us, like, I can't fucking wait for this show. But, yeah, I'm tired, guys. Yeah, exactly.

Which I love. I love that you've built that, like, there's respect for that now rather than, like, you can't do that right off the rip. Yeah, dude. You know, it's like you know speaking about vulnerability you have this song called i'm fine right isn't that about mental health yeah tell me about that that was the last song that got put on this record and it really was like a battle to get this record out because we had signed with this label uh who kind of like winded dined us and it was this whole thing.

It flew us out to New York. They were like, you guys are going to be the shit. And we were like, all right, we're 31. Should we take that leap and try to go for it? And almost immediately, we were like, fuck. We blew this. Were they just blowing smoke up your ass or what? They signed us because they liked Little Stranger.

And then we sent them, I mean, in a nutshell, we had sent them like 20 songs for a record. up your ass or what they they they signed us because they liked little stranger and then we we sent them i mean in a nutshell we had sent them like 20 songs for a record and they were like yeah two of these are pretty cool and the rest of them are kind of garbage and we were like oh boy did they give you an advance or what yeah yeah there was an advance that we had to pay back so we're still kind of in debt from that once we got out. These fucking labels, dude. What? Yeah. It's, no.

Learned a hard lesson. What'd you learn from this experience? What Kevin said this recently in an interview, it's just like, trust your gut, because we were so uncertain about it when we did it. But then we're talking to our families who have watched us like work so hard for so long and they're kind of like man this is a huge opportunity and we're like it's like getting a job yeah like like it's it seems like security right and so we're

like yeah you know what a golden opportunity to go for but we fucking knew the whole time that it was like not the move for us and this so we went through it for like eight months of uh doing writing sessions out in la and like trying that whole thing working with other writers and which was cool and we were writing good songs but they weren't little stranger songs yeah it's got to be hard to like you know right when you like have a partner and they're like oh we love you for who you are but we're gonna set you up with 10 writers and we're like yeah that's not who we are you know it's like so this song i'm fine is basically talks about the the end of an era for this bullshit label or what yeah i think it was uh between the label stuff and like the mental health stuff we

all went through in 2020 and family you know not not being able to like go visit my dad because of all this bullshit and it was just uh i i wrote it the one night i had found this sample of like a old um reggae like skank on the piano and it's cool because it's like a happy sounding song but it's a sad lyric song and it felt good it was one of those cathartic ones to like let some shit out over yeah how hard is it to be vulnerable in a record and have someone say, no, this isn't it? I cried on the phone when they told me the songs weren't good enough. Me and Kev called each other. We were just literally crying.

Did you feel like you wanted to quit? No, because I do think the one thread that we've had throughout this whole thing is we've believed in ourselves maybe to almost too high of an extent sometimes where we're like, we know what we're doing we know we're good

but to just have people that we're like, they're gonna love it they're gonna fucking love these songs and just get nothing in return and so low of a return when we felt like we just gave everything everything we came into the call i remember being so excited like we got this fucking banger of a record they're like fuck it we're gonna keep all 20 i know we asked for 11 yeah so then that's something like mafia shit they're like oh we don't like it and you're paying us

back for this shit we did yo exactly yeah so by the time we wanted to get out we we ended up kind of like blowing up the whole team we were with a different manager at that time who sort of got us into the label and once we got out of the label we were like we got to start from scratch here and i would have been picked up with vince which has been oh that's dude vince is the man i would have been... I never picked up with Vince, which has been amazing. Oh, dude, Vince is the man. I would have gone Tupac, Hit Em Up style. Fuck Biggie, the record label. Just write a fucking blast album. How much did you have to pay back, if you don't mind me asking? 35 grand.

Yeah. Oh, my God. That's heartbreaking. We're well in debt right now. Yeah. Oh, my God. It's heartbreaking. We're well in debt right now. Yeah. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, for halftime, I'd like to talk about Repsy.com. We forgot to talk about it during the opening segment.

But sign up for Repsy.com. They're a great company. If you're in a band, if you are a DJ, if you're a comedian, I mean, if you have a talent that you want to do for the entertaining of the arts, put your band's profile or your artist's profile on Repsy.com. It's a win-win. If you have an agent, they don't take a cut. If you do not have an agent, they take a small cut, and you might as well get as many people as you can out there going to bat for you because it's hard times out here i'm out here in the trenches i see all the shows that are happening

and all the new shows that are coming up there's going to be a lot of competition so you might as well get as much as you can out of all the people helping you out so please sign up for repsy.com and like nick right sign up for repsy.com i just like to add that if you do currently have an agent you don't have to pay double booking fees alright alright we're done what's the most intimate song you've ever written that you felt like that is exactly how I felt

oh man I mean I feel like you asked me why off the next off the record it's the last song off the record it's it's the last song on the record it's our like like because even i'm fine it talks about mental health and stuff but it's pretty tongue-in-cheek it's nice it's like creative and like it's still fun while getting a little bit deeper but ask me why it's pretty much straightforward just like like love love found and love lost just like balancing bouncing each other and like i we we got we got real vulnerable on that one yeah i was gonna say it if you check it out it's the

last song on the record it's like a very uh it does i think as emotional as we've gotten on anything we've put out and when it came time to record kevin's vocals we went into the studio and he had written this really personal verse about an ex who has it's even more heavy now because she has since passed and uh yeah listening back on it now it's like really heavy and but at the time you know she was still around and kev recorded his verse and we had kind of like dim the lights and set this mood, and Kev did this. It was like his third take was the one. We all knew it was the take. It was me, Kevin, and our buddy Alex,

who's our homie who's always around in the studio. Shout out to damn Skippy. Yeah, and we all fucking hugged it out after the verse. We were all shedding tears. God damn. Hey, Kev. Yeah. Can we talk about that a little bit?

Sure, sure. Okay. Yeah, that Kev. Yeah. Can we talk about that a little bit? Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. So you guys broke up? Yeah. I mean, we had been, so when I moved to Charleston, she was the first, she was the first person I like seriously dated since I moved to Charleston.

And that was six years ago. But we dated kind of on and off for like three or four years, pretty heavily while I was here. And it wasn't, it wasn't it wasn't really until like the last year you know like we weren't seeing many people because everything was shut down but i'd catch her every so often and we were still like we were like really good friends um and she passed probably man five months ago maybe oh my god six months ago um just kind of like freak accident thing.

But yeah, it was weird because these were finally the songs that were dealing with some of our relationship and some of the things we had gone through. And a lot of times the girl in this verse was her. But so it was kind of crazy because we released Sunburn, the first single of the album. We're working on the music video to get it out like a couple days later and i get the news like in the middle of editing all that you know a song that the verse is about her and i kind of get the news in the middle of editing this video and everything and uh i don't know. It's just, she, she wanted me to do this shit so hard. She was very like, uh,

was very kind of, uh, I don't know. What's the, what's the word? She, she was like supportive, but in a,

in a different way was always pushing me to be myself and push, like, you know, talk about real things and kind of like, I don't know. She was a great gal. She's, she was the fucking best.

Miss that girl. So why'd you guys break up in the first place? I mean, honestly, like, the biggest thing is just being on the road, being away. There was always love there. And it was like, that was like the hardest understanding, like, the hardest part to understand. We did. We had that thing where you, like, break up on the first big blow up and then you get back together because you're like oh that was silly that's just because we've been apart from each

other for this long or something and then something else happens and it just it just kept bouncing back and forth but yeah realistically it's like you know it does come down to here and and people's needs and the type of relationship they want and like like it was just it was the most it was the most grown-up breakup i ever had and i fucking And like, like it was just, it was the most, it was the most grownup breakup I ever had. And I fucking hated it because, because it was like, it was fully talked out, fully pretty much worked out that like,

it just wasn't working. Logical shit. Yeah. Logical shit, which is no fun. Isn't that the worst? When it's logical and it's not. Yeah.

Yeah. But she was not, she was fucking awesome. And so we were always homies. And I'm glad I would get to see her every so often and stuff. But yeah, it was pretty fucking pulled the rug out from under me. And it's got to be the hardest thing when she's always supported your dream. But she's got to think about herself too.

And her involvement in the dream is making her sad. Yeah, and following her own dream man it's like exactly i get that i get that and sometimes those things don't pass but isn't it crazy that she passed away right when you're like starting to record that track yeah it's it's definitely like added some weight it's definitely added some weight to all this but also in like the like i'm glad i had the album almost to lean on to have this thing that made me really proud and really happy or even having your art

to lean on yes, having your art to lean on I'm sure there'll be some upcoming shit that'll go into some of those places and stuff she'd want me to have the best life possible she'd want me to be having a good time and not like, I don't know,

so goddamn depressed about it. You know, but we need to feel those feelings, you know? For sure. For sure. Damn. That's, that's, do you believe in that like serendipitous stuff? Where like, you know, God, I know death is fucking horrible to think about. Yeah.

Being serendipitous, but like, it crazy, though, that that happened right when you're singing about her? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think when it can help you, it's good to lean into those things. When it's just hurting you and bringing you down, coincidence can be a real fucking bitch. But I do think a lot of times these things are like, it's life. Everything's here to give you

a lesson to help either build you, make you stronger or remind you something. Guys, I'm with it. What a fucking year. Shitty record deal. COVID. It's been a ride Jesus Christ

how do you guys stay optimistic? how do you stay optimistic? bro honestly we have having each other is pretty unbelievable not only do we tour together half the year we live together

the other half we're just like, we get, we're on the same fucking page about like humor, like lifestyle, everything. We're just like, we're here to boost each other up. And that, I don't know how we would do it without having each, being in each other's it without being in each other's corner. Being in each other's corner

and being pretty emotionally, I think, intelligent dudes. Yeah. We definitely don't try to skirt off that type of stuff. Right. We're pretty open about it when we can be. We're some sensitive boys.

I'm going to clap to that. I love it. I fucking to that. I love it. I fucking love it. We love you. I want to talk about your Argentinian girlfriend. Where'd you meet her? Yes. So she's now my wife.

Oh, let's go. Let's fucking go. We met in a pretty crazy way, we had done early on well i guess it was like 2018 we were touring with this group mayday out of miami hip-hop group and um we had done a whole east coast run with them and then we were supposed to go down and do this leg of shows in florida and a few of them fell through and it was only Miami show. And we, me and Kev for the first time ever kind of were like, you know what?

Juice doesn't feel worth the squeeze. We're not going to put 24 hours on the van to go play a 30 minute set in Miami. Right. And so we told the band that I think our last show was in Atlanta before going down and, uh, their percussion player,

Nam, who's the fucking man shout out comes up to me he goes john he's like listen to the universe you need to go to miami he like pointed at his third eye and i was like all right we're going to miami we're going to miami no to that so we go down and a mutual friend of ours had come on the trip. He knew he had met Augustina working together at X Games a few years back. She was there. She worked for Guayaki, the Yerba Mate company. She was at Ultra, pushing product, and came and met up with us after our show.

And it was one of those, like, immediately meeting each other. We were like, well, who are you? and came and met up with us after our show. And it was one of those like immediately meeting each other. We were like, well, who are you? And yeah, then she came and visited me in Charleston. And kind of the rest is history. And then we got married right in April 2020, kind of like peak pandemic. We did a little backyard wedding here at our house in Charleston. It was like my mom and her boyfriend kevin was my best man slash photographer let's go keep it in the family big dog yeah yeah right dude our uh our other homie damn skippy was our

um officiant and he's a he's a great rapper and i was like there has to be 16 bars of rhyme in the like homily or whatever yeah so we had we had like a rhyming ceremony it was great man yeah oh my god well now for almost two years you know at least um i know i could tell you're a romantic guy when you guys are doing the karaoke and you your girl did that spanish song and watching you look at her sing that song it was like you guys guys were all joking and having fun doing the Disney songs. All of a sudden, she plays this really beautiful Spanish tune.

I could watch you watch her. I'm like, damn, this motherfucker really loves this chick. I'm like, hell yeah. I'm going to clap to that too. Love is real, people. Love is real. Oh my God. This is great. What a fucking couple years, guys. I didn't know you had to deal with all Love is real. Oh my God. Well, this is great.

I mean, what a fucking couple years, guys. I didn't know you had to deal with all this shit. Do you think living in Charleston and the music community there has helped you keep sane through all these trials and tribulations? Hugely. Because even in 2020, when we were all shut down here,

we actually got tighter with all the normally we're on the road all the time so we don't really get to be involved in the scene as much as we'd like to right yeah but we got to really link up and people like ross bogan from doom and like hell yeah um matt zutel who runs coast records like oh yeah you've been a bit mad yeah the guys from little bird like we we became all we did was hang out with musicians and started producing together and stuff. It's such a family here. I know you've experienced it. Oh, my God.

You're welcomed with open arms here. It's amazing. I don't know how y'all drink all day, but you guys are fucking insane. You guys could just live. You guys are fucking insane. You guys could just live. That's one thing I appreciate. You guys live life.

It's like this moment of I could enjoy myself and also take my art seriously. That's one thing beautiful about Charleston. That's a great way to put it, honestly. Well, guys, thanks for being on the show I really appreciate it this isn't goodbye I can't wait to we're going to do more

we're just going to keep blowing this shit up and I'm just so proud that people are talking about you and it's well deserved you guys are great and you guys are nice people and for anyone who deserves it it's you guys so thank you for being on the show I got one last question, boys.

Like every interview I end with, what do you want to be remembered by? Bars, baby. Bars live on forever. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Hell yeah.

Well, the bars are going to last. And don't take no shit. Next time you sign a record deal, Hell yeah. Well, the bars are going to last. Don't take no shit. Next time you sign a record deal, no paybacks. No, we'll talk to you first. It's a partnership. Call your Jewish friend, Andy.

I got you. Numbers are my thing. Okay? Numbers are my thing. Boys, thanks so much for being on the show. You have a great day. I'm going to finally go to sleep and rest up. All right, guys. I love you.

Have fun. Let's get it, boys. Go fuck shit up. Don't be fucking cougars in SUVs anymore either. All right. Thanks, Dad. All right. Later, guys. Bye. There you have it. Little Strangers. Awesome. I love those guys. Super sweet.

Damn, I didn't realize they dealt with all that shit during the covid quarantine so i'm thinking about them i love them and i hope you enjoyed that interview all right guys um i'll catch you on the tail end now a message from the UN. Touchdown in the land of the golf carts White people drinking all day The rest of the band is back in the gym Trying to take the Red Rocks show seriously Frasco would rather travel to that city Where he's a minor celebrity.

Day drinking in Charleston. Day drinking because there is no tour. Day drinking in Charleston. Where he's mildly famous, you know he can't sit still. Well, he's drinking in Charleston. All right. Next up on the interview hour, from Charleston, South Carolina, we have Shovels and Rope.

Yes. The amazing husband and wife duo. They kick ass, man. If you haven't heard Shovels and Rope, hey, Chris, play something. Play Shovels and Rope's song. Maybe play Birmingham. Play an old school song. They got a new record out.

I love this band so much. I was really deep diving all their records. Birmingham saved my ass when I was younger. It's just like, God, the emotions in their vocals. You could tell they're in love. You could tell they've had some hardship, and it's just beautiful songwriting. So ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy this interview. It was so fun.

It's the dynamic of a husband and wife being on the road with their kid and having to homeschool them. It's just a beautiful story. So, ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy Shovels and Rope. She was singing in a bar called Comatose Halfway rusted on a salty cove Rock of ages, cleave for me Let me hide myself in thee Buried in the sand

500 miles from Birmingham Wow, here we are. Right on. What's up, everybody? How's it going? miles from Birmingham. Wow. Here we are. What's up, everybody? How's it going? It's going pretty good. It's a beautiful day.

Been messing around in the yard, running some errands, playing with our kid who just went down for a nap, so we busted out here to talk to you. Well, perfect. I won't leave you. I know you guys are parents. That's got to be the hardest thing. You guys tour so heavy. How is it like touring with having a kid now? Are you guys still doing 150 shows a year?

Has quarantine kind of stopped it a little bit? Tell me about the progression. Yeah. I mean, I think we play maybe 75 to 100 shows probably around 75 yeah that's i think that's what it's gonna end up being this year yeah and um and that's that's fine that's fine with us um but we yeah we played much less we put much much less shows over the past couple of years. Almost no shows. Almost none.

We had a tour that ended right at the beginning of the shit show. And then we squeezed in a tour right there in that little sweet spot and pulled it off right at Thanksgiving. It was over. And then, boom boom Omicron chronically damaging the whole world and now we're slipping our toe back in the water to see

if we can squeeze in another tour before some other variants bust loose yeah it's gotta be isn't it such a tricky time to like schedule a tour right now it's got to be. Isn't it such a tricky time to schedule a tour right now? It's got to be weird. It's very weird.

It's very weird to tour right now. You know, everybody just has to relax, I feel like. I know that's easier said than done, but I feel like when you're out there, you have to be easy with people and understand that everybody's got a lot going on right now right yeah and especially um how old your kid we have a six-year-old and three-year-old and do they travel with you when you guys tour or do you have a babysitter like you guys are you guys both work together so how's that how's that work is it expensive having a babysitter do you bring them

on or like what what's going on we have uh we've been but we have a nanny on tour we have to have somebody to help us and uh you know we basically had the wild mountain girl julie most of their whole lives and then my sister comes out and holds it down we've had our hairdresser for the last 20 years comes out every now and then but there's always somebody to put them to bed at night because our their bedtime is when we're in there getting ready for the show and and uh so yeah but just definitely like leave it to beaver on the tour bus it's like we've got our little breakfast routine we've got a little homeschool routine um sometimes we're taking them off to a zoo or something the nanny's doing that um during the you know morning and or the afternoon when we're sound checking,

it's just kind of, it's like all around what works for them. And then, you know, what's happened with getting the show logistically produced every night. And that's just the dance. That's what we do. I'm going to clap up to that. That's a lot of fucking work, dude. A lot of work. It's a, it's, it's, yeah, I'm going to clap up to that. Cause that's a lot of fucking work, dude healthy relationship with your work balance and having a healthy relationship is raising your kid on the road. Is that difficult to balance? It's just, we don't know any other way. I imagine that it's no harder for us to balance,

except for that we worked together at the same job. But then these nine to five same job but then like these which you know nine to five parent family situations where they're they're also working together just not necessarily in the same space and it's the same like okay here's your list and here's my list and this is what we have to achieve for the day and I think that it's probably the same except we do it in a tube like a tour bus tube in a different city every day six months out of the year it's yeah it's i don't know it doesn't feel it it is chaos but it doesn't feel um it feels healthy and you know we have to get sleep that's probably the hardest thing it's hard to get sleep um because kids wake up and you change time zones. And, you know, it's like. There's a lot of napping, adult napping.

Adult napping. Yeah. It's pretty key. This is. So exciting. Yeah, we're very exciting. No, no, no, totally. What about when you have to write tunes?

Do you force creativity or do you set time for creativity or that's more yeah we do we have to um you know we when we're at home we kind of switch off with who's on with kids we have one kid in school and one who's not um but we've literally like break it up into chunks and um say okay here's your time here's your scheduled time to be creative you know and um that's just what that's just how it is with us how it kind of has to be we used to be um able to write songs whenever we wanted to. And now, um, I don't know. I don't, I feel like it's easy. It's almost easier to be productive because you're just, you're laser focused, uh, to use that time wisely.

You're not just going to be, um, you know, smoking weed and looking out the window. I don't know. Maybe so. Yeah. Waiting for creativity to happen. You got to like, all right, this is a job. I need to get these songs out. I mean, how many songs, how many albums? Yeah, you got it. Yeah. Sorry. Little choppy.

This is our sixth album. Yeah. It's pretty choppy, but I think that you just, if you just said how many albums we've got six OG records and then three records of collaborative covers and then that's the suite triple hat trick nine records do you guys

live in Charleston now? we're in Charleston yeah and your story is amazing how you guys met you guys were both in different bands and then tell me kind of like the the build-up and how you guys got together and how you guys fell in love if you don't mind yeah um we were i was playing in a band that had just moved here from Denver and Carrie was playing in her band out here. And we, both of our bands were opening for another band.

It was the three band bill. And we sort of, they, they took us out and we went, you know, we did like the Southeast and, and we, we still lived lived my band still lived in denver so during these first um these first couple of tours we would go out on the weekends you know friday saturday sunday and then we would just kind of hang around in charleston for the rest of the week because it's a small it's a small city or it was and we could like crash on people's couches and it was easy to get to know people and the city and like the music community was really open and you know we just made friends with everybody right away

make friends with everybody right away and um so carrie had a a gig in town with um you know every sunday night at uh fluids yeah this is a bar that my boyfriend at the time owned and and they came in his band was obviously new boys in town in a town where there's not that many new there's always been way more babes than dudes and so it was a bit of a frenzy like who are these cute new boys in town and i made friends with them through the band scene and fast forward it was this one summer where his band the films had a like a restaurant gig that we were all doing throughout the week. Charleston's good like that. Like they hire live musicians all weekend. So it was my night was Wednesday and his night was Thursday or whatever.

Anyway, and they would do these Beatles covers with their band. And they were so good. And we were already friends. But when I saw that and I was also eating filet mignon so the dish was set for romance and no he was really that was kind of it for me caught feelings and then fast forward again we know we're in love and we know we're going to be married and we're doing bar gigs in town to make money because again charleston has got a million places to eat and play music and um and we said we should make a go of this two-person thing so that maybe

if it's successful we can stay married and like have some sense of normal we should rewind just a second because the um as we're playing in the as we're doing this bar and restaurant gigs with just the two of us it was like um it was catching on people were way more interested in whatever we were doing there which we weren't even we weren't really taking it seriously we were just like we're gonna play some of your songs and play some of my songs and we'll you know write a few together and we'll just like go out and make a hundred bucks at the fish restaurant or at the, you know, at the bar. And then it started catching on and people wanted to see that way more than they wanted to see the things that we had been working, you know, for years and years and years. you know, for years and years and years. Yeah, our egos were wrapped up in our solo careers that we were trying to, you know, start out

because his band was done and I never really could get my band off the ground. All my musicians were in other bands that were way more successful. So yeah, there was that whole thing of like, well, this seems like it could be a thing. I can like throw my ego out the window if you can throw yours out the window.

And then that's been the 10 year journey is figuring out how to have a co-ego. Yeah, that totally makes sense. And like Michael, when you talk about changing, like was your band pissed? Like you've worked all this time and all of a sudden you're popping with your girlfriend. Were they frustrated that you want to just do that project? Or do they kind of have the feeling that you're moving into a different direction? It was time. It was just time for everything. You know, it was like,

we had moved. The part of the story that we skipped over is our band moved to Charleston and then we ended up moving up to New York for two years and there was like a whole label signed and dropped and nobody cared you know journey that went on with us and so we were I guess this was like 2008 I moved I decided to move back to Charleston because I was like Carrie and I were kind of doing the long distance thing and the band was I don't know just wasn't healthy anymore and we were you know grown ups trying to when we were trying to be it was time to grow up a little bit you know and like so I think it was good for everybody there might have been some hurt feelings for a minute but we're all super tight now.

One of them occasionally refers to me like half serious as Yoko, which I take. Jake, he's straight up saying, what's up, Yoko? Meanwhile, I love Yoko. Everybody can kiss my ass. She's fantastic. Very interesting. Yeah. That's beautiful. Nobody really cares. Very interesting. That's beautiful. Nobody really cares. We're all

still a family. We all have kids. We go on vacation together, for Christ's sake. Yeah. Do they all still live in Charleston, your band? Your old band? No. No.

One guy moved out to LA and he worked with Butch walker for a little while um we had i i did notice when when you first asked us we first got the note you know to come on here i saw uh that butch was doing this podcast yeah and so i checked it out and it's like we we um and it was great and we which is like our cousin we're really tight with him we've done i don't know he's just like uh he's the best and we have all kinds of butch stories but um jake the guy who was playing bass in my band ended up moving out to la and working for Butch because Jake is a wizard. And then Kenny, guitar player, moved out to LA also and played in some bands. And then

the drummer lives in Denver, Adam, and he designs a lot of stuff for our albums. Yeah. We still work with him regularly. That's amazing. I'd like to bring it back to Butch Walker. He's one of the best producers, I think. I grew up listening to pop punk. I used to work for Drive Thru Records, and everyone wanted a Butch Walker record.

What did he teach you about songwriting and the craft of making a record? You know, I came to know Butch while I was still in my

other band. Carrie was doing her band. I was tour managing her band at Austin City Limits. We just went out in the van. was tour managing her band um at austin city limits like we just went out in the van by tour managing i was like driving us there and i was the only one who had been out on the road before and um he knew what a load in was this is what it means this is what loading means uh so we anyways we were out there hanging out uh carrie's set was like the first of the day so we had all day to kind of do nothing and i saw butch and uh let's go out tonight yeah let's go out tonight so that record is so good and um he was hanging around you know in the food area and i and uh

he's he's like you know butch is intimidating he he's like big and beautiful big and tall looks you know he's like a beautiful man looks like a rock star you would think i don't know i didn't know what to think but he was and is the nicest as you know uh just most gracious person and um i just was like you know he recognized you from somewhere like he knew yeah he knew he knew my band and um anyways we just started we started um chatting and then um eventually i asked him you know we talked about make about um you know if my band was gonna make a new record and so anyways butch produced a record for the films um which is the second our second record which i don't even know if it exists in the united states you know which um that's how much the record

label did not give a shit and um i don't even know if you can like find it, find a picture of it. You know, which one was that? It was Scorpio. It's really good. We had a great time making it. It was just like so easy. He likes to work fast. He's just, you know, he's just like, he's got it.

He knows he's got good taste. I feel like that's the whole thing with the producer is if you have good tastes, um, you know, you're going to get there and he's, um, I don't know. He doesn't, he, he never gets, I'm sure he works different with different people, but he doesn't like get in the way and try to make it his you know try to make it his thing unless you um unless there's not an idea you know like if the room if there's energy in the room and it's going he's like yeah yeah let's do this and then if um you know if there's

a gap or somebody doesn't have an idea he's ready with an idea and he knows how to like put the puzzle together and um after that butch had made a record for for carrie lions and lambs my only my my solo effort um played all over that what i learned in that process was that recording music is not it's supposed to be fun i don't really love that job i don't i um it's not something that unlike michael who thrives in the studio environment and can really feel creative and free i am um just not i have to have somebody do everything in the studio plugging things in and i'm doing the fucks the fucking shit i don't even you know so butch the first time when I was in the studio with him, nothing felt like,

I didn't feel like I didn't deserve to be there. I felt like it was okay that I didn't know how to do anything but write songs and sing really passionately. I didn't have to know what a compressor was. I still don't, you know, it's like, he just made it fun and brought all brought the music and i remember having sitting listening to his friggin doctor who he uses to do accordion and stuff putting accordion on my music which is my favorite instrument and

it's an instrument i can't play and i'm just weeping at the control booth, not even believing how much fun and how satisfying the product and that it wasn't a stress bomb and that no label was going to be giving me any crap about it because nobody cared about it, but me and Butch, you know, and I didn't need to track. I didn't need to tour that record because the minute it was ready, me and Michael knew what we were doing doing but it's i still like i'm really grateful that that piece of all that those particular songs are recorded in a way that it's like straight up just little old me like my kids will know oh that's what mom's shit sounds like when she's out of the vacuum of the band like that was kind of the flavor that i had

yeah well and then and then to like i i think kept going with bush which had me come out and um help like i wrote on um i liked you better when i had no heart and the spade i was just in there like co-writing songs with him for his record which was really you know i mean he didn't need me for that but it was just like a um he said he would tell you he'd be like i really needed you i needed you michael i don't know he probably didn't need you though he didn't of course he didn't need me but. But he did. He allowed me to participate. And we wrote some good, some like fucking cool songs. Oh my.

Michael, you co-wrote The Spade? That's one of my favorite Butch records. I co-wrote a lot of songs on that record. Yeah, it was really fun. And Carrie sings a lot on it. Maybe I sing a little bit I'm the high voice and he's the highest voice

I think there's a few places where he had this go yeah yeah yeah sing on yourself like really but yeah that's

we were up we were in LA on those sessions that was the shit oh my Carrie that's your voice in Sweethearts holy shit that's my favorite song that is the shit that record does not get enough credit

i to be honest i think a lot of butch's solo stuff doesn't get the credit it deserves because his solo stuff is unbelievable man yeah he it really and you know i i love him he's content with i don't know he's just like built this amazing world where he gets to do his own thing nobody tells him what to do and he also he's just like one of the top producers in the game. He can make anything. Yeah, and such bad luck with both his house burning down in L.A. It's just so crazy. That shit's wild to me. He's safe and sound in the hills of Tennessee now.

Yeah, he's back. Ain't nothing going to burn down there. He's back. He's back. Hey, Kerry, can we go back to when you said you produced that record, your solo record? Do you feel like that gave you confidence to not take music so seriously, in a sense, and just have fun with it?

When we start making money, we feel like we have to take it extremely serious. But I feel like when we take music seriously, it is important, but we still need to have that, that loose side to give it, to get the best thing out. Right. Yeah.

I think, I think that, um, like it's a, it's a, it's a duality because it's important, like to people, it helps them.

It makes you feel good. You want to make good music hopefully you can make a living doing it but the like the fake importance and the self importance and the importance of whether some label can like make all your dreams come true and you realize as that yarn on as that you know yarn unfolds or unravels, and then you see that that stuff is neither true nor important, and that stops being what is in the forefront of your hustle. The hustle is still there, but you're not sweating it. Michael's the king of not sweating anybody's exterior bullshit that's coming at you or being projected at you. That's what I feel like that did give me that i still come i'm a huge people pleaser i need everybody to like me and i uh

can get you know absorbed into some of that kind of stuff and uh you don't have to have any of that none of it is important um when you're making art so yeah that's amazing what about you michael is do you do you feel like there's still pressure when you're putting out a record or you take that shit out i feel a way more relaxed now than I feel like I ever have. When we started making money, or when this started to be our job, this was our way of making money. I'm turning back now. I mean, we felt a little pressure.

And then also when we had a baby, were like oh my god really we're like really doing it for real now and um it counts and we have to figure out how to make it work but um i think like when you are thinking about how somebody's going to respond to your song while you're writing it. You're not, you're not, you're doing yourself kind of a disservice, you know, you got to like get rid of that and, um, and come from more of a, just a pure place. And, um, that's what people can smell that, you know? Yeah.

I feel like they can tell, they can tell if you are, um, if you're trying to please, or if you they can tell if you are um if you're trying to please or if you're i don't know if you're like if you're trying too hard um i feel good i feel good man that's fucking awesome i'm gonna clap to that too let's go um is it ego like do we have to like cut cut the ego to let the vessel open? I think that's what it boils down to, right? I mean, that's the thing that makes you need the reaction or the feedback. I don't know. I mean, I'm not also...

There's a difference between connecting about music and um but i do think that it's it's a lot better without it i think that the ego is that's the thing that that that trips you up a lot yeah i was thinking about we were we were driving listening to a uh a non-name podcast where it was a music critic who was kind of trashing a band that would go unnamed a band that we like uh and just kind of like but it was weird it was more about i was fascinated at how much ego the reviewer was coming at and knowing the band has almost no ego about their music or like where they're coming from that's very like kind of not coming from that place so it was i was the contrast was like and i'm not i love music criticism and i like have no problem with writing about music. I'm fascinated by it. But it's really like, man, this is a total ego bomb.

And usually you think of it as the artist is like, and I'm watching the Kanye documentary. So I'm like thinking of somebody who's driven, their creativity is driven by their ego. And if they didn't have that ego maybe they wouldn't have accomplished you know mental illness aside the mental illness that causes these outbursts aside like that is different than maybe what we are which is like peace say that we're you know i mean that's a that's it's like when you're out on the road and you're um i'm just no please not to say that we're that we're not guilty of getting wrapped up in our own shit hugely wrapped up in our own shit but it is it's just it's like you know i feel like when you first start a tour say if you're out for three weeks or something

and you start and um you're like there's a lot of joy and everything is um you know there's spontaneity that's happening on stage and there's um it's just like it feels kind of clean even though the show might may not be dialed in quite yet you're like it just feels like the air is a little cleaner and then a few weeks in you like have been in front of people every night and they it can't not do something to you you You know, just standing in front of cheering people every night for a lot of nights. It's like, you know. By week three, they're like clapping

and we come off stage and they're like, they hate us, they hate us, they hate us. And they're like, we love you. And they're like, you don't love us. You don't love us. Did you see that guy? That one guy was looking at me

weird all night. And you make it all up. It's bananas. It's unreal. These two people got a babysitter. But come to your show. Yeah,

yeah, exactly. Hey guys, it's AOD. I'd like to talk about our new sponsor, Screwball Whiskey. Yes, with a K, baby. They's AOD. I'd like to talk about our new sponsor, Screwball Whiskey. Yes, with a K, baby.

They're sponsoring the podcast. And we are going to do actually a campaign where you're going to hashtag what? Screw Frasco? Yeah. S-K-R-E-W-F-R-A-S-C-O. Yes, you are. Oh, I thought you were supposed to be alone. It's okay.

We can cut to you if you want. Screw Frasco. Put all the... If you want to roast me, if you want to, if you have pictures. Start over. No, no, let's keep it going. Okay. Screw Frasco. Put a picture up of me if I look fucked up. Yeah. And let's just see how many. If you can find them. If you can find a picture of you looking fucked up. I think there's a lot of pictures of me fucked up. So, hashtag Screw Frasco. Prizes.

Oh, and you got to tag at Screwball. Is it at Screwball Whiskey? It's a hashtag. It's not at. No, the tag is at Screwball Whiskey. Okay, but do hashtag Screwball Whiskey. Hashtag Screwball Whiskey and hashtag Screw Frasco. And that sounds like too much work for people.

All right. This is the worst ad in the history of ads. No, no, no. No, no. We're doing it. We're keeping it going. We're going live. All right.

Hashtag screw frasco and then tag screwball whiskey to know that they're being promoted. We're horrible. We're horrible at We're horrible. Should we just send Screwball Whiskey their money back? We're so bad at ads. What? Barefoot marketing. Oh, yeah. And we're going to announce the winners on every week. So if you make a funny video...

We'll put it on there. We'll put it on the show. We'll probably put like a top four or five on the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the winner winner, maybe we'll give them tickets to the next show in their town. Unless it's a festival. Unless it's that.

Calm it down. Can't do that. Okay. Enjoy Screwball Whiskey. You know, it's like normally, you never really work with your, your, you know, your power couple, you're like Jay and Beyonce of the, of the Americana folk scene, you guys. And, uh, you know, and how, how do you like, not like you guys got to fight. It's normal as a relationship. How do

you not take that out on stage or have you ever like, you know, just screamed at each other on stage or like just burnt out with each other because you're with each other all the time like does that ever happen yeah sure sure like and we're cool the cool thing about us is we've had a lot of marriage counseling and we did that preemptively us along this road you know pre Rocky patches during and after Rocky patches, just to kind of give us the language that, and also because like we have to work it out and we're not like a band that can't ever say their shit to each other and just goes about it until they're like on four different buses, you know,

we're like gonna always have to come to a place where we can do it or we have to go find another job. And that's always been the kind of thing like we don't have to. We could figure out something else to do. It doesn't have to be this forever either. Like we can do other projects, but as long as we can communicate and have what we need. And every few years, like we still want to do another shovels or work record you want to do another shovel store yeah that feels good because if it felt like a trap or that you couldn't maybe you wouldn't be able to achieve that bounce but yeah man we are fighting on stage a third of the time and everybody thinks we're trying to like make out

with our eyes but we're like like you mf and one dumbest i've met in my life how could and he's like how could you mess that up again we've talked about it 900 times how many years how many years have we been playing this song and i'm like why are you mad at me and this is like on stage quietly with our eyes yeah but then at the end of the day it doesn't matter like you we we are also i'm the kind of person that gets mad gets loud and then it's over with yeah and he maybe is a little bit more stoic and like puts up with a bunch of shit and then when you can't take it anymore he's like excuse me man this is a professional rock band we need to settle down we you know we also have so much

there's there's so much more going on um in our day-to-day than than just doing the music and playing the show you know i mean it is like we definitely try our best we really you know try try um and we give it um you know we give it everything that we've got but we you know it's like there's uh there's two kids and other life stuff you know aging parents like all of real life stuff is happening and so the the show is not the thing that is like um you know when the show's over it it's we're good we're not going to sit around and uh bitch at each other about the you know the missed note or like the whatever just kind of we just slip back into normal life until three weeks into the tour and then we start doing that after we decide that everybody

hates us yeah nobody likes our band and there's definitely we're and it's over after this tour yeah i'm calling my lawyer what was the biggest blow you ever had you have a big the biggest blow up they're like oh maybe we should take counseling was that a show do you remember the biggest blow up? They're like, ooh, maybe we should take counseling. Was that a show? Do you remember the moment that was like, you guys really just was not having it with each other? Kamo Fest. What was it? The entire Kamo tour. Well, I don't want to disparage the culture of the thing.

Oh, it had nothing to do with it. But if we get into it, then it would be a lot about like uh our feelings toward you know with the long and short of it is there was alcohol and hot tubs and a lot of inner like a lot of being on and i think i just got hammered got in the hot tub and you have a thing to do with the hot tub well sometimes when you're hammered and you get into a hot tub it makes you more hammered yeah i'm just so i was i behaved poorly and we had a huge argument and and at the end of the argument the band was over and possibly the marriage but then the next day we were still on the boat and we couldn't get off the boat for two more days. So in that time, the band got back together.

The divorce was off. Also, you have to understand with these cruises is that you, when we did this, we were really nobody knew us on the boat. You know, it was like there were a lot of big name acts on the thing on the thing and um definitely a small name on the way you know nobody knew but and then you play one show and then you're and then you're famous and like uh yeah boat famous and and so that you know you're like in you're interacting a lot more than i i don't really do that well with that you know you're like in you're interacting a lot more than i i don't really do that well with that yeah you gotta be on 24 7 for the boat yeah you gotta be ready to party 24 7 yeah and they have like um the artist lounge you know where a lot of the artists go and hang out and eat and everything and then they have the you know just where the boat people are. And we felt like

we didn't belong in the artist's lounge. Like we would get looked at weird if we were up there, you know, because we'd be like, who are these guys?

You know, we felt like we belonged down, you know, with the boat people. And, but it just, you know,

turned into a, it was rough. It was a rough situation. Yeah. I couldn't handle it. You know, I do those boat festivals too. And what a lot of people don't realize is the only time you have by yourselves is in your little ass room. Because right when you open that door, you're with all your fans.

You're with 3,000 fans. And it's got... Yeah. right when you open that door, you're with all your fans. You're with 3,000 fans. Mm-hmm. And it's got it. Yeah. It's crazy. It's like playing a show and then getting on your tour bus and inviting the whole audience onto your tour bus to just all go to sleep.

You're all, you know, pooping pooping in the same like next to each other like in the public restroom like wash up i really love this show thanks man i'm just up here following my dreams you know washing your hands, yeah, that was a tough day. A tough couple of days. Yeah. And I was just thinking today about we were fortunate enough to play on Letterman. We got to play on Letterman twice. And the first time was great. It was like, you know, everything was great.

And the second time. Secretly pregnant. I'm really sick. Yeah, we were secretly pregnant. Just found out. Couldn't tell anybody, you know. And so we got up there. We wait in the room.

And, you know, we had a publicist. Our publicist was talking to us about a bunch of things and we just couldn't hear any couldn't couldn't hear any of it because in our our minds were just like i'm gonna throw up on that yeah what are we gonna do and um and we blew it we blew it on letterman and uh i had to stop and say starting all that yeah we started right we blew it we we had to start over the song and it was like i think i had heartburn for like a full week after that because we were just like oh my god did you watch the tape did you watch the tape or did they cut the start over and just made it look like you guys just did it once. They let us restart, you know, and so on TV

it didn't look like we blew it. And they said we did exactly what we were supposed to do and that nobody was mad at us. Yeah, that's true. And then they never had us back. And then they never had us back. Tell me about moving, you know, you were

at Dual Tone and then you moved labels and you came back. What made you leave and, or did you get dropped or do you mind touching about that? No, not at all. Yeah. We just, we, we did the first two, I guess, with dual tone and then it was little seeds, right. That we did with New West.

And we just, I think we just wanted to try something different. We wanted to, we thought that they might have some marketing strategy or whatever that maybe Dual Tone wasn't tapped into, but it didn't work. and there's no hard feelings there's no hard feelings either way we just yeah we're all homies with those we've always been um i have like real love for the guys at dual tone and even when we went away for that one record nobody held it against us they were like yeah they'll be back do you think they'll be back. We'll see. See you in a few years, Shovels and Rope, when you're crawling back, hoping that we'll

take your records. Yeah. Your little homemade records that you just hand to us. Was it hard to go back with your tails under your legs to Dual Tone for that next record? Or you're like, they're already cool with you always coming back. They were fine. There was really no, there was like no drama at all. We was just like, yeah, we thought we'd go over here for a minute and we did have a relationship with

some people over at new West and from way back. And it was, it was really, it's like, nothing, nothing happened. It was, it was all boring and, and fine. Yeah. It's like, it's like, I would have been petty about it if it was me. Oh, now you want to come back. Okay. We see you. What about, um, that, you know, it's like the idea that the grass is always greener, you know? Maybe the grass isn't always greener and we should just be appreciative of what we have in the moment.

The thing about Dual Tone that I will say that I just love so much is that they let us do our job and then you know they they don't hassle us about what we're doing and we trust them with what they're they're doing we all can openly communicate with each other but it's like i do sincerely feel like when the artists are being artists or you know songwriters are writing songs and recording them that's like that's that's what they do i mean i like my old situation we were signed with uh warner brothers and it was like you know we had an a and r guy which i i don't even know what that means to be honest with you like i don't know what an a and r guy really, but I know that they come into the studio and make everybody nervous. Like when you're about to finish the record,

we had to like set up a little chair for him and like turn the lights down and, you know, like burn some incense and, you know, for, for our, for the precious, for the precious A&R guy to come in and like, you know, we're just watching his face, like as he closes his eyes and, you know, silently judges every note that we've played. And, and it's just, I'm so glad it's not like that anymore. It was like, I don't understand. I don't, I really don't understand the culture of, of the majors.

And I don't know, do do they i don't even know yeah they still exist they're doing fine they're not worried about us so just forget about it i know i'm sorry i have like 12 artists i got my own little i i maybe it just leaked out a little bit of my own Yeah My hangups with that Residual Grumpiness You nailed something on the head there It's like A&R used to be to develop bands

Now A&R's are just Looking at the outcome of it And not developing bands There's no point in A&R anymore I think But you know, fuck these people. I'll talk to shit for you, bud. I'll talk to shit for you. Thank you.

Yeah. What about, like, do you ever give your songs out to other artists? Not yet. I'm not prolific enough to do that. Give songs to other artists? Yeah, but that would be so cool. if people would just start recording all the songs that we've already recorded and sending us those royalties that would be great that would be great we have two solo records of material that are just sitting there waiting for you to other artists or anything really but if you're

talking about that but like songs that we wouldn't use, you mean, for this act or songs that we have. I feel like we've done some of that, or maybe I've done some of that. I do production work, and I will co-write sometimes with people or all have an idea and you know just float it to somebody um the last time i really did that or a lot of that was with with the butch um with those butch records and you know but it was just so cool everything was so everything was so open you know he was just wide open and opened any kind of ideas

I was sitting there with a typewriter just smoking cigarettes it was it was just a it was just a macbook the new age typewriter yeah I had my The new age typewriter. Yeah, I had my...

Smoking my pipe. Smoking your pipe, just pressing delete once, you know, instead of like slapping it. I do miss that, the romanticism of typewriters and stuff. It just felt like you're writing something even more romantic instead of just writing on your MacBook. Oh, what is that? Mac needs to come out with the Apple typewriter, which is just a computer. It feels like it's an interface that's just an old typewriter.

I bet you they have that. I bet you they have like an old school Bluetooth typewriter. I'm looking it up right now. You guys go buy yourself. Yeah, if it is, I'm buying one and sending it to your house, guys, for being on the show. Are you guys writing new music? Are you putting out a new record?

What are you guys writing about? Let's talk a little bit about the future of what's going on now. Are you putting out a new record soon or did you just put a new? I'm sorry, I'm oblivious right now. No, you're fine. We just put one out. It's called Manticore and we're...

I guess it came out... February 11th. No, that's the day something else happened. It's out. It's out like a week or so. It came out ago. We have a tour coming up. Yes.

Touring, yeah. We're going to be touring like crazy. Well, thank God. We need you out there. I remember you guys played Hangout Fest. I think you guys did a Hangout Fest. We did a show together and I just fell in love with you. You were pregnant, Hangout Fest we did a show together and I just fell in love with you you were pregnant I think

and we did a show together just watching you two just fuck shit up was just so amazing to me to have this big sound you playing keyboards and drums and singing you guys are just kicking ass together it was just like the idea of

what music's all about is playing with the love of your life or maybe you guys were in a fight then whatever but it felt really genuine too and it was just beautiful to see it and um so what what is this album what are you guys writing about what are you guys talking about in this record is a bunch of different topics is one specific topic like what is this record about um it's wow yeah we've been saying it's a mid-tempo masterpiece that's all you need to know so it's a lot of different things there's um a bunch of songs we honed our own personal experiences and then kind of turned them into you know fictionalized characters as artists tend to do um but they're a bunch of

stories about uh it's probably like a middle-aged record like you know it's people who are in the middle of the the life stuff that may be like what we're going through and there's some don't cut the big cast the wide net cast the wide net there's nothing of any interest to young people whatsoever on this record 20 year olds close your ears no it's

it's really emotional record but it's there's some really fun ear candy on there too like it's but it's there's some really fun um ear candy on there too like it's but it's it's real sweet there's a song about james dean there's a song about uh a dying junkie a homeless guy he's crazy he got left out of you know in the 80s when the all the home all the uh institution state hospitals were closed we've got some parents that are dividing and conquering their way through their life we got a couple of uh oh the best there's best story on there is one uh it's called no man's

land and michael wrote songs about the um about the Christmas truce in World War I, where everybody laid down arms on Christmas Day for one day and played soccer, like cleared the dead bodies out of the way and played soccer and got drunk and then went back to killing each other, you know, a few days later. It's amazing. Wow. And there's a love song about our kids. Are you guys history buffs?

Are you really into that? Yeah. Yeah. I think we have pretty much one historical song per record, or at least, I don't know, maybe three out of five. I don't know what I'm saying. We have a few of those songs out there. It's such great material.

It's like history. You can't make this shit up. It's true. It's true. Do you feel like- Harry was a history major and is like really, really into it. And I am, you know, I'll latch onto a story and be like, oh man, that could be a song or, you know.

I can't believe that happened. How important is history? And do you think history repeats itself? It does. I had this moment, was thinking um last night and i absolutely believe in teaching history and teaching truth but i had this moment of wondering if there was a moment where there was no history and nobody knew anything about anything what that kind of like fresh start might be like for humanity because there's so much

generational trauma and so much from you know just there's genocide everywhere and and oppression everywhere and now there's like you know there's war in the east and now there's war in the west and you know it's just uh it can feel like just a huge calamity. So. Pretty amazing. I agree. I agree 100%. And I think for you to keep history alive in new age music is honorable and it's awesome.

So thank you for your service. I really appreciate all the great things you do for the music industry. And I'm just thankful that, um, there's hope for people to be in a band with their spouse. You know, it's sometimes it never goes right. And I'm,

you guys, this is a, I appreciate you guys. So thank you guys so much for being on the show. And I got one last question. I'll let you go back to your awesome life in Charleston. What do you want to be remembered by? I would want to be remembered for loving other people.

When I'm dead, they'll say, man, she was so nice and loving. I remember when she called me to tell me that something dumb I did was great or like or something. Yeah, that kind of I don't I don't want them to say that I was mean and awful when I'm dead. Hell yeah. What about you, Michael? I think I would like to be remembered as a good friend. You know, I think I've put a lot, I don't know.

I would like to be remembered as a good friend and somebody who, who kept their word, like did what they, what they said they were going to do. Somebody who, who comes through. Yeah.

Well, I salute y'all. Thanks for living the dream. Thanks for creating Lord of the fly children. This is going to be awesome. I feel like your children are like legit the new age Lord of the Fly children. This is going to be awesome. I feel like your children are like legit the new age Lord of the Flies. It's going to be amazing.

Well, keep up the good work, guys. And thanks so much. Thanks so much for everything and keep the music alive. And until next time, thank you. Thank you. It's great talking to you today. Yeah, man, we appreciate you. Appreciate you you have a great day later shelves and rope thank you

you tuned in to the world's podcast with andy fresco now in its fourth season thank you for listening to this episode produced by and Fresco, Joe Angelo and Chris Lawrence. We need you to help us save the world and spread the word. Please subscribe, rate the show, give us those crazy stars, iTunes, Spotify, wherever you're picking this shit up. Follow us on Instagram at World Saving Podcast for more info and updates. Fresco's blogs and tour dates you'll find at andyfresco.com. And check our socials to see what's up next. Might be a video dance party, a showcase concert, that crazy shit show,

or whatever springs to Andy's wicked brain. And after a year of keeping clean and playing safe, the band is back on tour. We thank our brand new talent booker, Mara Davis. We thank this week's guest, our co-host, and all the fringy frenzies that helped make this show great. Thank you all. And thank you for listening. Be your best, be safe, and we will be back next week.