Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 171: Bill Payne (Little Feat) & Dave Bruzza (Greensky Bluegrass)

Episode Date: May 10, 2022

It's a Summer Camp extravaganza this week as Nick and Andy preach the Gospel of 6am Kickball (who will take the reins now?) Don't skip this episode. The mythical BIll Payne from LITTLE FEAT is on the Interview Hour?! Hear some stories from the halcyon days of LA and also some excellent excerpts from Mozart and Beethoven. We close out with Dave Bruzza debuting some sexy new tunes on the podcast ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! This is EP 171. Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out Andy's new song, "Puff Break (Believe That)" on iTunes, Spotify  Follow the legends themselves, at: www.littlefeat.net Then get thee to the Heart of Santa Cruz Produced by Andy Frasco Joe Angelhow Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Brian Schwartz Andee Avila Shawn Eckels Arno Bakker

Hey, Schwartz. Listen, 2 a.m. set tonight in New Orleans. There's two things I need to remind you of. One, you don't need to drink from now until 2 a.m. and through the show until 5 a.m. and then still be up at 10 a.m. drinking. This is a fucking job. So please, do a great job.

Let the people in the crowd do all the drinking. You do all the music and fucking blow their minds. Two, we get 40 guests tonight. Not 100 guests. 40 guests. You're hurting yourself. Folks want to see you or they're happy to pay. They planned their vacation.

They flew to New Orleans. They're figuring it out. They're excited to support their favorite musician. Let them do it. You aren't throwing a party for yourself at 2 a.m. at Cipatina's. We're trying to sell tickets to your show. We're trying to keep tips happy. We want Bon Giorno to be happy. I'd like to be happy. Please and thank you. Drink water. water. And we're back.

Andy Frasca. No, I got it. I'm being stupid. Andy Frasca's World Saving Podcast. I'm Andy Frasca. This is my co-host Nick Gerlach. Summer Camp Music Festival Edition. Wow, let's go. Hearts and Minds, bro.

What'd you say? Hearts and Minds. Hearts and Minds. Oh, yeah. How's our hearts? How's our minds? Are we staying out of trouble? I'm not trying to get fired by your mom here.

Yeah, she won't. She won't like it if I don't get to do mine. I'm just proving to her it wasn't my fault. Okay. It was my fault this time, forgetting about the hearts. Madam Brasco. Forgetting about your minds. Forgetting about the anxiety we all have going into festival season.

Jesus Christ. I am so nervous. You have so many festivals. Every time I go online, it's like I might block you on Instagram. Oh my God. It's like 22 festivals. How can this many people be interested in seeing this? You guys are a good

festival act though. We're a great festival act yeah yeah that's the thing i love i i love during uh summer camp we're playing at 2 a.m i know before we're closing that bitch out on that sunday on the campfire thing campfire last basically the last basically yeah we're closing out summer it's gonna be insane but this is a special edition um yeah here we go summer Summer Camp Music Festival. My favorite music festival. Go to Summer Camp. It is May, I think it is.

Memorial Day weekend. Memorial Day weekend, yeah. May 26th through May 29th. Yeah. And it's going to be fun. We got the next three episodes. We are going to be interviewing some of the headliners of Summer Camp. And former headliners.

And former headliners. This week, we have a former headliner and a headliner. We have Dave Bruza. I don't think he's playing it this year. He's not playing it, but we got Dave. Oh, he's a headliner. Midwest Dave. He's a headliner.

All right. I thought you meant of Summer Camp. Green Scott Bluegrass is a headliner. I thought you meant of Summer Camp this year. Dave's putting out a solo record and we wanted to get him on the podcast because it comes out this week. Surf rock. Surf rock. It was good. I liked it. I didn't see that coming though. I didn't see

it coming either. You know, it's like Dave always surprised me. I didn't know he recorded the whole record too. That's exciting. That's cool. Yeah. So we have Mr. Vet of summer camp. 15. You've done 15 summer camps? Me? I don't know.

I don't know if I've been. I don't know if I've played 15, but the first one I played was 15 years ago. I think there's a couple of years I didn't do. Mr. Midwest over here. I used to be. Now I need to go back. Yeah, we got to get you on that.

Go to Indy. Just hang out for a weekend. Say, call you in. I'm available. I'm only a couple hours away, bud. No, I'm talking about I just need to get back to the Midwest in general. I know. They miss you over there.

I don't think they do. I've talked to them. When I played in Indiana, they're like, where's Nick? Oh, that's good. That's good to hear. That was good. But yeah, summer camp, it's going to be fun. I'm excited.

A lot of great bands. There's like a thousand bands on that festival. I know. Every year, they kill it with that. Yeah. Because he does a good job. Ian does a good job. Fostering the young people coming up.

We're going to get Ian on the show too to kind of introduce what exciting extracurricular activities we're going to have. I hope Stasek still does the 4am kickball. I thought he retired. 6am. It's like sunrise kickball. He is a dad now and I get that. I think he retired last year. I don't think he did it.

I think someone did it for him. I think someone else needs think he retired last year. I don't think he did it. I think someone did it for him. I think someone else needs to keep the tradition alive. Well, you can't. You won't be there. And it could be not me because I'm not available. They can't.

You don't need another kitschy thing. I know. I don't need any. Maybe just write a song and play a fucking song. Yeah, maybe that's a party game. It's festival. Frasco's festivals. I like going and getting drunk with the people.

I know you're the princess of it all. Oh, man. We have a fun episode. We're going to keep this. I love Bruce. I didn't really know him that well before this. I'd hung out with him one time here. We had wings and then I wrote with him in a shuttle. It's Hula. Hulaween. He was my quarantine buddy. I didn't really know him that well before this. I'd hung out with him one time here. We had wings. And then I rode with him in a shuttle.

It's Hulaween one time. He was my quarantine buddy. I didn't know that. I feel like he kind of stopped hanging around when I started coming around. My first friends in Denver that like right when I moved here from the quarantine was like Dave Bruza. Oh. Scott Morrill. I feel like he got sober.

He got sober. And that's when he stopped hanging out with you. And that's why I didn't see him very much. He didn't in the beginning when he was like first fighting sobriety He's like I shouldn't hang out with Frasco And I respect that But now that he's like more empowered with his Sober life

That we get hangs now And I don't have to like He doesn't feel like peer pressure Yeah he's very smart Great lyricist, great songwriter You know what else is very smart? Dialed in gummies, baby. We got a new sponsor.

We got two sponsors. Presented by Dialed in Gummies and Repsy.com. Dialed in. These are great. I'm not a fan of edibles. I'm going to put all this in my coffee right now. You could put that in your coffee? It's simple syrup.

Oh, I thought it was fruity. Not flavored at all. They have liquid weed. They have edible weed, which I love. I've been eating these. Actually, I'm not going to. There So you could... Not flavored at all. They have liquid weed. They have edible weed, which I love. I've been eating these. Actually, I'm not going to. There's not enough coffee left. Dialed in gummies. It's rosin gummies. Yep. I'm stoked on it because

normally gummies... Solvent-less. Solvent-less, yes. And they co-collab with all these different growers and they make gummies for them. They're telling me, Keith, one of the marketing guys says, because we work with Coke Labs,

he's like, sometimes these growers... They're not cool. They're not cool. And they try to sneak one on because they don't like pesticides. They don't want anything like shit. They want the pure, pure... They test it.

They test it. So some growers try to throw them a curveball saying, well, hopefully they don't see... Nope, not our boys at Dialed In. That's why they're the best. Keeping it clean. That's why they win all these awards all the time. That's why they win all these.

Every time I talk to Keith, they want a new award. Yeah, and they're sold out everywhere. It's insane. They're telling me the business. I'm like, God damn, good for them. I know, we should have made gummies. We should have been in the fucking gummy game. No, I'd be terrible at it.

I like to eat them. Yeah, so get yourself some Dialed In gummies if you're in the area. Also, it's cool. They have these QR codes that every box will tell you exactly who the grower was, who helped them co-collab, and what type of effects. And what sign it is. I'm going to have a little bit. That's a lot for you.

I like taking half. It tells you its birth sign. Take half during the day,. That's a lot for you. I like taking half. It tells you it's birth sign. Take half during the day. Then I'll eat a whole one before I go to bed. Can you chew that louder in the mic for me? Thanks.

They're fired, dude. So get yourself some dialed in gummies if you're in the area. If you're in a state that's legal, they're in a few states. They're in three or four states.

And our other, we might as well, we got to give our other boys, our OG homies, some love. Repsy.com. Oh, yeah. Repsy.com, guys.. Repsy.com guys.

If you're in a band, if you're a wedding planner, if you're a venue owner, Magician. A magician, juggler, hula hooper, who is popular enough

to get booked somewhere. There are those. I know. I know a bunch of home girls in St. Louis who are really fucking killing it.

They're doing, they're getting booked on all these festivals. They're like a badass group of girls who just hula hoop and do fire. I mean, there are some amazing hula hoop tricks. Anyway, back to Repsy. Back to Repsy. So sign up for Repsy.com, and let's get you booked. If you have an agent, they don't take a cut if they're one of the partners. But if you don't have an agent, it's a little cut, whatever.

Let's get your band out there. It's cannibalism out there. I've been talking about this a lot. It's impossible to find shows. And if you find a show, there's going to be six other fucking bands in that same town. So you might as well get all the extra help you can get.

So sign up for Repsy.com. Great week. We're going to have a great week. Nick, are you ready? You're playing Red Rocks in like three weeks. Oh, my God. I don't even want to think about it. You're playing it.

This is more, even though you're opening this time, I feel like this is more of a Red Rocks show than your last one. Oh, yeah. This is like 10,000 people. As you know, I'm very experienced at that venue. Oh, by the way. I know we don't have much time, but I saw Nelly and Ludacris. It was one of the best.

I was, I forgot. Julie was jealous. She didn't get to go. Oh, my God. Did you get her a ticket? Did you get her a ticket? I could have got her a ticket. It was Phyll the best. I was... I forgot. I know Julie was jealous. She didn't get to go. Oh my God. Did you get her a ticket? Did you get her a ticket? I could have got her a ticket. It was Phyllis's birthday.

Surprise birthday. We saw her that day. Shout out to Don Strasberg and Stroll and all the guys at AEG for letting me give my homegirl a great birthday. Oh, Stroll booked it? VIP. Stroll booked it. I love Stroll.

Yeah, Strasberg's like, hit up Stroll and he'll get you in the back. I'm like, hell yeah. Do you think I can meet Nelly? He's like, no. No. You probably don't want to meet, never meet your heroes I was crying All those songs remind me of 5th grade There was two rappers Ludacris and Fat Joe, Fat Joe opened

He's like, I never open, but I'm with legends Well, Ludacris Blow was having a blast though, Blow knew every song He was like, doing the whole fucking Smoking a joint, singing to the knew every song. He was doing the whole fucking smoking a joint, singing to the sky. I bet Luda would be an amazing stand-up comedian, too. Oh, yeah.

He has that presence. His songs are pretty funny. His show, it felt like he was an actor. I mean, he's like, I just got off high. He's like, what's up, Denver? I could have been already shooting Fast and Furious 10. They made 10 of those motherfuckers. They were going to keep making those

until they stopped making money, which is going to be never because they're amazing. Yeah, they're great. You know how I love that kind of stuff. All right, we got a long episode. Summer camp, here we come. Three weeks away.

Are you ready? Peoria, baby. I might sneak you in my closet. Chill a coffee. I might sneak you in my... I might just go. Who knows? Maybe we could get a live podcast together.

Let's not sound like we're desperate weirdos trying to get me on summer camp. No, no. But book Nick Gerlach for summer camp. No, but book Nick Gerlach for summer camp. Don't listen to him, Ian. All right, guys. We're going to have a great week.

Dave Brew's a first. He owes me nothing. I'm going to surprise you with the headliners. We're not going to tell them who the next three weeks are of summer camp. Oh, the interviews. Then after these three weeks... One of my favorite acts of the last five years. Exciting.

It blew up. Big time. And then after these three weeks, then we go to Bonnaroo. We have three Bonnaroo headliners. Are we going to get unfreeze on one of these or are we not get the VIP package? Killing us. You're killing us. Oh, you're killing me.

Oh, God. All right. We got to go. It's been 10 minutes. That're killing us. Oh, you're killing me. Oh God. All right. We got to go. It's been 10 minutes. That was quick. 10. We got a big one with Bruza.

He's going to promote the record. We're going to have a listening party. First ever listening party. It's a world premiere of Bruza's new solo record. All right, guys. Enjoy Bruza. Enjoy one of the summer camp guests. And I won't tell you who,

um, and, uh, I'll catch you next week. Surprise, but it's in the title of the summer camp guests, and I won't tell you who. And I'll catch you next week. It's a surprise, but it's in the title of the podcast. All right, we got to go. Goodbye. Goodbye.

All right, next up on the interview hour, we have, yes, summer camp edition. We got to talk to Bill Payne, the original member of Little Feet. One of my favorite fucking bands ever. The greatest. Lowell George, Bill Payne. I'm obsessed with it. Chris, play some Little Feet.

Let's get this party going. They're playing Summer Camp. They're one of the headliners and they're playing on My Day, I believe. And we're going to try to do a sit-in with those guys because they're the OGs. And OGs deserve the respect they fucking earned. But, yeah, we talked about everything. We talked about, you know, he's had a lot of death.

And a couple of his band members have died. We talked about going through the ups and downs. And he was, like, the first dude to really get a band up on social media. I mean, Little Feet, they're legends. All right, guys. Enjoy Little Feet, and I will catch you on the tail end. Holy shit, we got a legend on. Bill Payne.

Where is he? How you doing, bud? You post big money, man. Get him out of here. You're doing very well, Andy. Thanks for bringing me in on this. I was told this is a good thing to be involved in and you're a great guy.

Yeah, it's fine. I appreciate it. I liked your attitude already. I appreciate it. I liked your attitude already. I appreciate it, bud. You actually, you play with my guitar player a bunch, Sean Eccles. He's in the band Speakeasy. He was in the band.

He opened for you guys a bunch. That's right. I love Sean. He's a good guy. Yeah, and with Fred. Yeah, it was one of Fred's buddies. Yes, yes. Sean Eccles. Wow, that's cool. Yeah, he's my guitar player. Yeah, it was one of Fred's buddies. Yes, yes.

Sean Eccles. Wow, that's cool. Yeah, he's my guitar player. Yeah, I want, you know,

this is amazing. I mean, I feel like you're one of the first musicians to really develop an online community, like, to promote yourself

via online. Well, we had to. I mean, you know, the drill with management when it's sour, you know the drill with with uh with management when it's

sour you know yeah yeah uh gotta do it solo we're selfish as musicians andy you know uh we want the business thing to be right but sometimes it's not and when it's not we still want to play music right and so i went to our fans and i said i need your help what do you want us to do i said very simply when we come into des moines iowa i'd like the people of des moines and the surrounding areas to know that little feet is a town right and i got an idea on how to do that and so that was and i i kind of got the notion of there's annie defranco was doing stuff. John Prine was involved in a lot of extracurricular activities back then. But my source of inspiration was Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail in 1972. Tell me about it.

Why did it inspire you? That was about the run from Richard Nixon and, oh, man, the cat from North Dakota, I think, McGovern, Senator McGovern. That was that campaign. McGovern got shellacked in the election. But the way that Hunter was talking, Hunter Thompson was talking about how to put together a grassroots organization. I kind of got my impetus from that. So it was a combination of politics, reading, desperation to keep little feet afloat. And what turned out to be was not just tapping into a community, but opening up the doors between you know we hide behind this veil as artists right right we're here the audience is there and i want to open it up to where we

can still have that that uh that mystery that that we have up on stage and that uh you know the barriers or whatever we want to call them, the veils, as I said. But I wanted to get to know people. I'm a writer of things beyond music. I mean, I write poetry, lyrics, of course, but I also write prose. And as that kind of guy, I'm inquisitive about people, about things. I wanted to get to know who is out there. Who's crazy enough to listen to Little Feet

and with all this eclectic music that we do for starters, what kind of person is that? And so it's been a really interesting ride along those lines. What was going on in the music industry back then, maybe with your career or how how you know labels were promoting bands that that's already had like the plat you know you guys have been legendary in the music scene forever like what was going what was going on during that time maybe you guys got dropped to make you realize we're going we're going solo because we're still going to do this

thing what happened during that time well we had a label or two that were supporting us and trying to. But it was just the eye-to-eye, the day-to-day conversations with management really wasn't there anymore. And they were propping it up like, oh, yeah, we're fine. Well, it wasn't. I mean, we just – I felt there was a complete disconnect with it. And at the end of the day, it was something, here's something for you.

So it shows how long ago it was. I was talking to management, to business management, the whole nine yards about selling CDs at our our concerts why would you want to do that is what they told me and i said well at that time only country artists were doing it right right and so i said well give me a couple boxes and we're going into iowa which i mentioned earlier boxes and we're going into iowa which i mentioned earlier and i called him up i said so let's say a box has 50 in it and and we were i'll say des moines again we were we're somewhere else but um that town has three really good record stores at the time and they have three of our new albums with each store that's nine albums we sold 50 and they went oh my god and then all of

a sudden they woke up i thought why don't i just become a a uh a businessman instead of a musician exactly like first off why the fuck aren't they thinking about this why are we have to think about this you know like that's how so delusional they are outside of, you know, marketing a record. You know, it's so important. Yeah. And that's exactly what it was back then, Andy. Now we're with Vector Management, which is Ken Levitan, which is Brian Penix. And Brian is our day-to-day guy.

And he says, you've got to do this interview with Andy. He's a good guy. It's a great show. And I said, yeah, I'll check it out. But so now we're in partnership with some people that really care. They're knowledgeable. And we both exchange ideas. That's the way it ought to be.

Right. All we're trying to do is promote things that we both on both sides of the quotient love to do. And that's reach people. Communicate with people. You talk about being a poet. I mean, lyrics are important for the development of music and for lifetime songs, I think. What's the difference? Was it harder to break a band in the 70s versus breaking a band now?

You know, I would think it'd be tougher now in the sense of we don't sell albums anymore. I'm not talking about the general thing. Look, I'm 73 years old and uh yeah i'm sort of removed from what it would be to to start a band like say yourself out there um at least with warner brothers when we were when i was your age or maybe a little younger even uh we had the support of warner brothers yeah and i was literally warner ted templeman mo austin and you know randy newman is on the label van dyke parks bonnie ray came in a little later uh the nitty gritty dirt band was probably with adco or somebody else i'm not sure but there

was a system in place to allow artists to develop, and they would help you do that. Right. I don't think that exists anymore, does it? No, like the idea of an A&R doesn't really exist. I was just talking about this with somebody. They had that idea, like the mothering A&R person. I don't know, maybe you had a different experience with A&R, because I've heard stories about your band that i want to get into eventually but like honestly we we really didn't

need any a on our health yeah you know we we uh lol george was one of the very first to to suggest that just forgetting a and r for a second but but sharing um sharing the wealth if there were to be any with writers, right? Normally you have bands, the biggest arguments, I can't hear the other guy playing, that kind of stuff, which sets in motion all kinds of havoc, is when you write songs. Who gets credit for it? Who does this? Lowell said, look, whether I write a song or whether you and I, Bill,

write a tune, we're going to split the publishing we'll take our writers here but we'll split the publishing with richie hayward with paul barrer with whomever else is in that band that's contributing to that song right i thought that was a good idea until you don't deal with people that if you're if you're not in a band with i don't see any reason to do that, however. But in a band, it's a show of love to the other people in the group that created Dixie Chicken, that created Rocket in My Pocket, that created Dollar Land, et cetera. Yeah.

It's a good way to show me care. You know, it's like you take greed out of the equation because you're a band. Yeah, you do. And yet people are greedy as human beings, right? Yeah, exactly. Band or not, you're still dealing with human beings. But I like the idea that 50 years later,

and that's taken out the first two years. I've been low-feed for 52 since 1969. Yeah. But Kenny Granney, Sam Clayton are still in our band. Yeah. We lost Paul Breer in 2019. Richie was before that. Lowell was way before that.

But Fred Tackett, who was one of the very first people I met in Los Angeles, he got us our first paying gig in LA. Really? Yeah, it was for Jimmy Webb at Jimmy Webb's birthday party, who Fred was playing with in Encino, California. That's where I live. Oh, you do? Okay, yeah. I live in Denver now, but I grew up in Topanga Canyon.

All right, so we always referred to Fred Tackett as the mayor of Topanga, which he wasn't. He wasn't. I can see that. Tackett is the mayor of Topanga, which he wasn't. He wasn't. He wouldn't ever be. I can see that. He'd been there a long, long time. And I keep introducing him. It's like, Brett Tackett from Arkansas. He cornered me the other night on the road.

He says, you know, I've lived in LA for like a long time. I said, well, okay, I'll introduce you that way. But I got to mention Arkansas, man, because you still got the accent. You're still from Arkansas. Listen, I was born in Texas. I only lived there for two years, but all my relatives were from there. Once a Texan, always a Texan, whether you like it or not. And I embrace it.

Go back to this. All of my nose is going to be up there. I don't care. Go back to Fred giving you that first show in LA. I want to hear that. Yeah, we had up to that point had been playing like a speakeasy in Los Angeles. So it was filled with, with women. I, I assume they were a nice,

nice girls, nice women. Yeah. Uh, who changed, uh, who exchanged their love for perhaps remuneration of some sort with these businessmen that were there. And we would come in to play music. And we certainly had our share of the women down there without paying them anything. We were having a ball, but we weren't being paid for it right we were allowed a space to play and elliot ingber for the mother's invention came in we do a song like rototone and have all these crazy antics and these businessmen

could have cared less i mean they're gambling they're doing the whole nine yards so that was the atmosphere of little feet at that time fred comes is hey i got a i got a legitimate gig for you at a birthday party it pays well as for for jimmy webb who who i know you guys probably know him too for sure well so it was it was like this kind of big Crosby clam bake at Jimmy's place in Encino. There we were. And it was the very first gig where we were actually paid money to play. It was fun. That's so badass. So what was LA like back then?

I mean, were you guys all living out there? What was the vibe like? Was it just a bunch of pussy and cocaine and just the wild shit we all hear about? Or was it really like you guys were focused and dialed in? Eddie, and magnify that times 100 exactly what you described as what it was. Yeah. Okay. It was like the Wild West. It didn't last very long. Yeah. But it was intense.

We were not focused. I'll give an example. We did live together. I wrote a song called Cat Fever. I was living at Lowell's house, andty one of the the uh price sisters came in their mother was uh lullabelle who sang on the lion sleeps tonight yeah a real high part she sang on star trek did all this this is old hollywood right so uh i had to sleep in lol's van well terry melcher had

been over lol's house and spoke to both of us uh in and around that time period right right and he was talking to us about a record deal and we're going oh just be cool and i gotta go to europe when i come back we'll finish the discussion he left the next day or the day after the LaBianca family was murdered. Right in and around that, Sharon Tate and those people were murdered. And guess who they were looking for? Terry Melcher. This is the Manson crew, right? What?

I'm not kidding you. They were looking for him because he didn't give Charles Manson a record deal. They murdered him. Oh, my God. That's how crazy things were. Did you ever meet Charles Manson? No. Nor would I want to, but there was a guy some poor soul uh and i was sleeping on the beach

before i joined little feet i was uh sleeping on a beach called haskell's which now has a big uh fancy hotel up on it there was a there's a a surf spot. And about a week, maybe two weeks after I got off that beach, there was some guy, crazed person with an axe, killing people on the beach that were sleeping there at night. Yeah. I dodged that bullet and that axe, I guess. Holy shit. You know, people were taking LSD, but they were taking it.

And somebody had a great idea of mixing speed with it, which has completely freaked certain people out. It would have freaked anybody out. So we went from the summer of love to just like murder chaos, men walking on the moon. This is in 69. This is insane. So once you start seeing the change of atmosphere in the scene, did it kind of freak you out?

Or were you so deep in the world that you couldn't really feel like you're just digging yourself a deeper hole? I felt I was completely freaked out by everything. I never wanted to live in Los Angeles. Yeah. But that's where Frank Zappa and the Mothers were. So I said, well, I tried being up north in Northern California. But that didn't work because I was just too naive. I was just a kid.

I didn't know who to approach. I lived with a band that was, they were basically drug dealers. And they had everything but talent. They were in a very comfortable place. But they didn't know how to play, really. Oh, my God. That sounds like a drug dealer. It's like a dick and tail. I'm going to be writing about this, by the way.

You got to. This is insane. It's a great story. Yeah. And it's just, it involves a little feat, but it involves this world that i grew up in that um uh i was like a fly in a wall and i still am to a degree you know i mean i just i met susan tedeschi the other night in florida and she goes this is our first formal meeting she came down to say hello to amy helm levon helms who's opening for her and so this you know the scene i've always been involved in

is mainly about music yeah it's not about being a pop star or a rock star a a rock head is more of the way i feel myself but the music element has always been very much intact and it's the way most musicians think of themselves you know we're we we can do something that we love to do i mean it's a cliche but it's true and the development of that love is really the key to how long we we remain doing what we love to do. Right. People are prone to think of music and the business of music, which says it's an entirely different light on it. Now you're on the level of naked and afraid on TV. Yeah, you're right. You're so right.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I need to get some more wet on me. My genitals are showing. That kind of thing. Fuck it. I of thing what we're doing is making music how do we make it? I just ran into this guy named Adam Minkoff who presented me

with a record to listen to it was a CD this is it what record is it? it's about I had it upside down, of course. Oh, okay. What it is, it's

the Rite of Spring that this guy listened to and by ear transposed for sax, for different saxophones, for different horns, for piano. And it's Stravinsky, right? Yeah. He's got a halven ear I mean he's a wonderful

musician and that's the kind of guy I kind of hold up and he's a young guy too he's probably I think he's your age how old are you like in your 20s right yeah I'm 30 sorry so 30 so he's a little bit younger than you, but not much. And you're the guys that give me hope for the future of music because it's a matter of people that care, that are smart, that the influences that influence their music are wide and varied. And it's what voice you decide to present to people is who you are as an artist true and rather rather than compress everybody to yeah i'm just uh i love george jones i'm just

gonna walk and do that kind of stuff that'd be great you know but what else have you got i mean what else interests you true and taking people for a ride, to love the ride of the influences, because what it does for them and what it does for all of us, it shows us the connection between things. Right. What's the connection between Eric Clapton and his music? We'll start with Sonny Boy Williamson.

Oh, yeah, who's he? You check him out out see what he was doing it takes you through a river if not mountains and and vistas of music and and personalities of books of music of of of literally literature and food that you would never discover if you weren't dialed into it. That's what makes life living. The chaos, we always have the chaos. Let's get into stuff that's positive, too, and reflect on that as well.

That's what the human spirit and what the notion of being in a community is all about. We're divided right now, but not all of us are divided. You know what I mean? Let's build fucking pain. That's what I'm talking about, dog. Ladies and gentlemen. You talk about who gets inspired. The story of the artist

and what they're listening to. If you could say that about Little Feet, what was it? Who were you listening to? Who were could say that about Little Feet, what, what was it? Who were you listening to? Who were the extensions that made Little Feet? Well, we grew up in an era, um, they call it a golden era, right? The golden age of music. Yeah.

So what I was listening to before I got into Little Feet was everybody from Ray Charles to, to Leon Russell, to Buffalo Springfield, Bob Dylan, acoustically and otherwise. Let's, you know, the Fugs, the Holy Model Rounders, Richie Hayward's band, which had a movie, Easy Rider, Don Bogart, that joint, the Mother's Invention. And that was just on the rock and roll side of things. You take it from, gosh, Fast Domino, one of the first bands that was New Orleans-styled stuff. I don't think they're from there, but it was called The Olympics. And they had a song called Big Boy Pete, right?

Yeah. And you're not familiar with that. I'm going to move this. I hope I don't screw anything up. I'm going to play it. I've got a piano here, though. Yeah, play it, Bill. Let's go, dude.

Let's see what we have here. So this is a piano I played on Emmylou Harris' first album. This is a piano I played on Emmylou Harris' first album. And so the intro for that song, I was saying it's a... That kind of thing. Holy shit. I'm in fourth grade, grade man listen to that stuff i'm going what is that and and just flipping out over it and not realizing that years later i'd be playing in a group called little feet and we would be playing some pretty hardcore New Orleans stuff. Yeah. And blues and jazz and country. And we'd be playing what would take literally being in nine to ten bands to play.

Yeah. But we were doing it with the umbrella of Little Feet, right? Yeah. So somebody was, I won't say who it was, but it was this guy who was a little territorial about, well, he didn't say it to my face directly. They told him, well, this is much later. Well, what's Bill Payne? He said, why are they playing New Orleans music? They're not from there.

And I said, well, look, I play Mozart, okay? I'm not from Vienna, Austria. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I play Beethoven. I'm not from Hamburg, Germany. I play some Bach, et cetera.

Is it okay with... I'm not from any of those places. Is it okay with you if I play that stuff? Yeah. I really hope it was dr john who said that no it was not listen back rabbit egg man i love that cat we we were at a gig i don't even remember what it was but they had three or four stages and he walked over to our place when we were playing to say hello because we'd known him a long time he says hey man you want to sit in with my band and i go yeah i mean of course well what what

are you going to play he goes i'm playing the guitar and that's how mac started out was playing guitar so he had me play piano a couple songs you know so and uh what what an honor to do that and uh um again he was one of the one amongst the very first people i met in la um at sunset sound i'm pretty sure mac was there um recording probably as was randy newman as was uh van dyke parks right this is this that's what I mean about that golden era of music and what we were listening to. At Lowell's house, the first time I went down there to meet him, the door was open. He lived in this rustic house off of Rowena in LA. And this little girl,

a beautiful blonde girl, short blonde hair, is listening to Eric Satie. The door opens. He goes, Oh, Lowell's expecting you. He'll be back in four hours. I go, What is he doing when he's not expecting you? Was that the character

he was like, I need to know. Lowell, you guys are honestly one of my favorite bands. And growing up, you've inspired me and me and Sean so much in our band. Like, we wanted to be you here in your live records. I'm like, we want to be that tight. Give me your relationship with Laurel and like how you met and how you guys worked together as songwriters. and how you guys worked together as songwriters. The way we met was what I was describing. I had to set up a meeting through bizarre records at Warner's to meet with him. Yeah. So he doesn't show up for four hours. After a little while, we split.

So I'm looking at the back of his house he's got like a samurai sword on the back wall on the right hand side facing toward the backyard there's a sitar in the corner in his bookshelf he had last exit to brooklyn he had uh um poems by uh I'm looking for the book now, Carl Sandburg. He had Howl by Ginsberg. In his record collection, he had Lenny Bruce. He had Ohm by John Coltrane. He had Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf. He had this collection of music from the Smithsonian

of chain gang music. And on that record was, Hey Lordy, John the band, big bull rat gonna join the band, which is off and waiting for Columbus. So all this stuff was there. So by the time Lowell showed up,

I kind of felt like I knew him. It was like Castro and what I've read about Castro and Che Guevara meeting each other the first time. They kind of talked about everything under the sun. And we didn't start with a beat that night. It was about a month later we finally said, let's do this band. But our relationship as songwriters was like, I said, well, I've got, but our relationship with songwriters was like i i said well i've got we started off with like this weird eclectic i mean if you think it was eclectic now or it was a dance of the

nubile virgin slaves 10 000 whips uh um lost coat there's all these different kind of crazy songs we played him from ahmed erdogan right and ahmed shuffled his feet he didn't wear any socks he had his his loafers on and i had no idea this guy had produced ray charles or i would be too embarrassed to talk to him but he he says simply boys it's too diverse and we go okay i'm it and we go back to the drawing board we started writing brides of jesus uh crazy captain gunboat willie hamburger midnight oh strawberry flats oh my god all stuff. So truck stop girl was actually a legitimate tune. I talked to one of the cats and the birds about, cause they recorded that song. Right. Yeah. And I, I had been listening in high school to George Jones,

Conway Twitty because my girlfriend's uncle, Uncle Billy, who was this drunk guy that would get into fights at the bars and stuff, that's the stuff he listened to. I never met him, but I started investigating that music. And I knew Lowell knew about those guys too. But I thought, let's bring that into the question. So when you think when you i was telling somebody yesterday listen to will and off the very first little feet record yeah to my ear it's like

a caricature of of what a truck stop person or driver would be and then listen to it on on uh sailing shoes it's got that floyd kramer-esqueesque piano it's more legitimately country music and I feel that's what I helped bring into this band was a legitimacy at least for that area of that music to take it out of the caricature form

but it was a great song to begin with totally, I mean, and then like you could hear the difference between the recordings and your live records and how the song takes shape after playing them, right? That's right. And a lot of that was we did a lot of

rehearsing. We didn't rehearse like the traditional bands did. You know, you run the song a hundred times and play it. That's stuff you did in the studio trying to to learn stuff session i was also a top session player in la at that time as was fred tackett yeah i mean you've been on so many records was that during the time it's and it's

i'm either really good or i can't hold a job you know what i mean so it's You know what I mean? So it's, but, but, but the rehearsal part of it, what we would do is we get in, we get really high and we'd start, uh,

um, smoking grass usually. And we would just start playing. We jam, right? And so there was one night we were doing this, this bass part that Kenny was playing. That's the bass part. Time Loves a Hero.

And I'm throwing that over the top of that stuff. But we'd go off on these excursions, Andy, that were just fun. And there was one of those nights we were playing, I think it was for uh today at the dog races and paul and i start that that song was put together also by little clips of things right yeah uh a rehearsal tape we do record stuff on a cassette and uh but paul and i went to his leg we'd never played it before and we're looking at each other going how do you know that i'm But Paul and I went to his lick.

We'd never played it before. And we're looking at each other going, how do you know that I'm playing what you're playing that you know that I'm doing it too? And it was insane. What do you think that is? Telepathically? It was telepathic. It was like Uri Geller bending spoons and stuff. And the minute we started to question it, then we fell out of the loop.

But we held it long enough to be able to look at each other with this amazement and fear and delight in our eyes. That combination of like, this is like the mystery of life and we're a part of it, right? Yeah. We have, that's what a mystery would suggest uh what was making you what was making you fearful about it because it was powerful it was crazy yeah how were we doing it i mean i've had stuff in my life where i go i was able to do things but it didn't give me any second sight but it was it it's it is i don't think we we ever want to lose the mystery

of things no i don't think we ever will that's what they're there for right but they point to things that um it's not like faith having faith in something is trying to prove something you can't you can't uh uh show? This is something different. It is spiritual in a way, but it's not about proving anything. The proof is right there in front of you. And you're powerless to do anything about it or describe how it happens or to do enough tests at any universities or elsewhere to define how you do it. If we could all do it, we'd be billionaires at the racetrack, for example.

Right. Well, why are we overthinking it? Why can we just live life without overthinking that part of it? I think it's an excellent question. I don't have the answer for it other than the fact that we're we're frail as human beings and that's what we do and and and the the irony Andy is not only do we overthink things we underthink things as well I always put it in form that we we talk ourselves out of far more things than we talk ourselves into oh I can't learn how to play the piano everybody in the world plays the piano you know

what are some of the do you remember one time you regret talking yourself out of something yeah there's boy what would be one of the most egregious well I didn't join the Rolling Stones

in 1981. They asked me to do it. Shut the fuck up. Bill, are you serious? No, I'm dead serious, yeah. Tell me the story. Well, the story was, my life was in a very precarious place. It had to do with relationships more than anything man pussy

yeah exactly and pussy is undefeated is this hell yeah it is later said it was either willie nelson or uh merle hagger so there we were and i also had another gig coming up with james taylor from jackson brown linda ronstadt and i think uh jd southern that was in japan and uh i just didn't i i just i wanted to play with the stones but i just didn't feel like good why not but had i played had i played with them i wouldn't have been able to put little Feet back together either. So that response, in that respect, I do kick myself a little bit in the ass. But I do also recognize that the way life works, it was probably better that I didn't do that game. Ian McLaughlin, it was on the Steel Wheels Tour.

He wound up playing on that and later they had Chuck Chuck LaValle who I adore he's a wonderful cat we played on a record together in LA as a Johnny Holiday album Johnny was like the equivalent

of Elvis over in France I just played on a record in France. The first album I did to go anywhere other than Albertson's up in Livingston, Montana, was I flew out of the country to the south of France to play with Eddie Mitchell. That was my second album with Eddie. And Eddie is a French artist.

He's a few years older than I am. And he was, he and Johnny holiday were dear, dear friends. So this guy's a big fixture in, in, in France as well. And a delight to work with. I worked with a lot of French musicians over there and a couple of guys, the drummer was from from LA Bernie Bernie Dressel Oh fantastic oh Bernie's amazing yeah he's amazing his brothers were I think if not the musical director for Jimmy Kimmel show me

certainly one of the musicians on there yeah Yeah, he is. So great cats. And this is just how I meet people. I live in Montana, so I'm kind of out in the middle of nowhere. But I meet people and I'm introduced to things just like everybody else is. Somebody calls and says, maybe check this out. I go, no, check this one out too while you're at it. I go, OK, cool. So you're still a lover of music, even through all the ups and downs.

Well, yeah. Yeah, I am. I mean, that Mozart I showed you, I've always used practice of Mozart to say, if I'm sitting there going, playing a song, maybe the best way is just to illustrate, right? What's the old ad? It's talking about music like singing

about football. Yeah, exactly. Fuck yeah, Bill. what's the old ad it's talking about music like singing about football yeah exactly fuck yeah Bill so if I'm playing let's see I should play it in my class but I won't

I won't spend a lot of time doing it sick fucking Bill played me piano let's go dude oh Fucking Bill Payne played me piano. Let's go, dude. So I'm playing this stuff right now. Right.

So I would go... I'd go back to practicing again, right? So I would... It was a... Oh, shit. Keith, let's fucking go. Let's go. So I got my facility to play crazy stuff from classical music, right? But I had a teacher who said, let's not take the magic out of him to my mother. Let's let him play what he wants as well. I'll make sure he knows how to read music.

And for any classical person hearing me butcher Mozart just then, they go, well, this guy doesn't read that well. It's a matter of finger memory, getting things under your fingers. Right. I played his stuff for the first few days after getting home off of a tour, and it sounds like Stockhausen, and it eventually starts to sound like Mozart. But I'm thinking of a long-winded way to answer your question about why I love music. The challenge is always there with it, right?

And the challenge is really what promotes us to continue to want to learn, to explore, to share that exploration with other players. And having a band like Little Feet is like, I played with the Doobie Brothers for the last seven years and loved every minute of it, to be honest with you. We're still very dear friends. But I've got my own band. And Little Feet is a platform that I look everybody eye level. Tony Leone on drums. I mean, I didn't even know the guy could sing. It's crazy.

And so he sings some of the Paul Brewer tunes, and he sings Richie's parts. And we've got a very good meld together. I told him the other night on a song called Day or Night, I said, you know, I like what you're playing. I want you to stretch out a little bit more before you bring it back down to the groove of the song. And one suggestion would be to take that, take the other approach of instead of hitting hard,

back it off just a little bit and see where that exploration might take you. And so he did it on stage. And I said, nobody's going to get hurt, man. I was talking to one of those skiers, and I can't think of the cat. It was an older gentleman that made movies on surfing and on skiing. I met the top guy in his skiing films who said,

I got this sixth sense about if there's a rock that's underneath a glacier that I'm skiing down. And I said, yeah. I get that peripheral vision and that sense of where the danger lies. We do the same thing musically, but we're not going to get killed doing it. It's true. You know, talking about killing and death and stuff, I kind of want to go into this.

You've dealt with a lot of death in your band. You know, how hard was the first death? Well, George's death. Well, the first death? Well, George's death. Well, the first death for me, honestly, was when I was in high school. And it was our drummer, Red Libengood. And Red reminded me a lot of Richie. He was from Iowa, as was Richie. He had this really crazy personality, as did Richie as well.

But the poor cat had a brain tumor going on oh man and we were was that was what was making him a little more eccentric and crazy we don't know but that death shook me so the when by the time Lowell passed away you never that dagger hits you every time yeah you know what I mean with law it was like i i honest to god i thought that guy was going to live years beyond what he did i knew he was on a path of destruction but i thought maybe he'll pull back out of it you know yeah uh but he never did And the thing about his death was I just kind of, I wanted to produce an album. That album was down the farm. And I put the band over it because he didn't want me to produce it with him.

I thought, well, I thought sometimes you got to be very careful what you ask for and what you wish for. I didn't wish any harm to Lowell. I mean, mean i love the guy but i hated him too at that time i really did for what he was doing to himself what he's doing to his family and what he was doing to our family of little feet but even at that i suggested to him look man you're going out on this tour the very tour that he died on i said before you go just think about this if you keep Little Feet going, you don't have to have it with me. You can check the guys out, see if they want to still play or not, but give yourself a little bit of a

break. Go out there, figure out what you want to do as Lowell George. Do you want to produce a bunch of records? You seem to enjoy being in the studio. And that kind of thing. i just wanted to implant that thought with him because he was such a major talent and that that loss i mean god knows what he could have done but what he did was was staggeringly

amazing right and i want to get more of that word out to people rather than well, the Monty Python skit, we built the castle and then the castle sunk into the Breuer and from the Breuer... That happened to everybody. Henry Hendricks, Janis Jopp and Brian Jones. That's an old story.

Talk about legacy, everyone thinks about the bad stuff, but in the long game of it, it's the art that sticks around you know and that's exactly right what were the feuds like what what was like start like you're starting to get irritated with him were you frustrated that he wanted to go solo or what was that like oh no uh no but a lot of people were blaming paul and i on his going solo and that it was affecting Little Feet. I said, well, look, consider the fact that it took him five years to make

that solo record. Right. How did we, how did we unbeat that? Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Well, they say in Spanish, despierta, wake up. You know what I mean?

It's people get too romantic about this stuff. And everyone wants to blame someone else. You know, it's easy. And it's easier to blame someone else than ourselves. Yeah, it sure is. So, but, you know, the fights were about music. They were about direction. And they were also because we were high and we were young.

Yeah. We were just, we were not focused on things we didn't know enough about ourselves to I guess that's I don't guess, this is what life is about is taking the time to figure out who you are right?

and we got all kinds of ways to dull our senses. And I don't mean, I'm not talking about drugs now. I'm just talking about the normal things in life where we don't take responsibility for things. Oh, I didn't make it as a musician because, you know, nobody thought I was any good. Well, have you listened to what you were playing? You know, that kind of thing. mean come on man where's the time how long did you did you spend

practicing or working on it we think john coltrane did all day uh any all those cats man they they sit there and they work on their craft right It's not like playing a video game. You have to actually work on it. And you have to work on video games too. So no matter where do you want to expend that energy and time. But the blame part of it is so human. Do you think the blame is just your ego trying to have a softer palate to fall to fall on yeah cushion yeah that is it absolutely is but i think for those people that it's like the terrible twos you know with little kids yeah

i think it's a stage and if the way i look at it with with people i don't care if they're dreaded politicians or or anybody i try and look at who with people, I don't care if they're dreaded politicians or anybody. I try and look at who are they hanging out with? Who do they surround themselves with? Who did John Lewis surround himself with as opposed to Donald Trump or Ted Cruz or any of these idiots? I mean, there's where the core of that man was, was who he hung out with. It started with Martin Luther King Jr. I mean, there's where the core of that man was, was who he hung out with. Started with Martin Luther King Jr.

And you just go on from there. And there's where the integrity lies. That's where the notion that you're going to crawl through glass and barbed wire to get to something that's important to you, that shows the man, it shows the woman, it shows the person's character. What are they willing to endure and to sacrifice? And then what's the end game? Is it solely to help themselves or does it help a lot of other people? Yeah, it's so true.

Who are you guys hanging out with that you felt in the beginning years that felt like you guys were in Sympactica? What bands were your friends? Well, I wasn't necessarily friends with these guys, but I mean, with the Mother of Invention. Oh, sick. The early, early guys. We had Roy Estrada in our band. It was our first band. Oh, sick. The early, early guys. And we had Roy Estrada in our band. It was our first bass.

Oh, my fuck. Out of 14 bass players, Roy was the cat we wound up with, right? Yeah. So Roy Estrada was one of the guys. But Roy stumbled. He's in jail for the rest of his life, unfortunately. Bad stuff.

But at any rate, yeah yeah it was just other musicians it was uh um i was down at muso franks uh one of the oldest restaurants in hollywood right i was hanging out with some cats that were the the waiters the mozos down there and there's this guy a man uh wilbur and wilbur said you want to know how to order like water properly, like in a nice way? And I said, oh, yeah, like instead of like, traigo me, mas hago por favor? And he says, yeah, me puedo dar mas hago por favor. And what me puedo dar means is, will you have a moment or will you can? Can I have this? It's just a polite way to do it.

And that guy was such a gentleman. But he lived in a violent part of Hollywood. He ran into the back of somebody's car. That kid came out with a knife and stabbed him to death. Oh, my God. Two to three blocks from Musa Frank's. Yeah. I had a bunch of guys.

When I was driving down there, I had that part of my midlife prices where I got like a race car kind of thing. Oh, you bought a nice whip, Bill? I got a nice one, man. What did you have, Doug? Oh, man. I can't remember now. I got it without the power booster, whatever they called it.

I don't know a lot about cars, but this thing could jump, right? If you hit the gas and hit the clutch properly, that car could literally jump off the ground. Holy shit. I was driving it into mousseau franks and before i got there there's about five or six vatos of the bad guys came in front of my car and there's one particularly tall guy and he's like looking at me i have my sunglasses on and so i'm sitting there looking at this cat just him because he was the most threatening of the lot yeah he's like pointing at me doing this and that and by zero expression and knowing that wilbur had been murdered that there was another guy up the street that had been killed i knew it was a tough place but i'm in this vehicle that if again if i if i if i punched that that thing rather than back in reverse,

I'd run his ass down and probably kill him. Yeah. I wouldn't do it. But it was like that do you feel lucky kind of moment. Yeah. And he brought that vibe, and the people went, they went away. I very slowly started up the car,

went down a half a block, turned into Musso Franks and had a very nice lunch. Like, don't fuck with me, kid. I'm not a killer, but I don't want to be fucked with. Please, not today. You talk about life experience and how you learned from that. From Lowell

dying when you were younger, now let's bring it to 2010 when Richie Hayward died. What did you learn from that? How heartbreaking was that for you? I wrote a 10,000-word essay on Richie, which you can find at BillPainCreative.com. I'll be there.

What I'll explain about it was I took Richie from his inception coming to L.A. to his death. And this guy was somebody, I won't give away the whole plot, but the kind of person he was, Andy, was he would come off every night and go, how was I? How did I do? And sometimes I go, yeah, man, you were great. I mean, he might have have been he might not have been but and then i go you weren't that good tonight you couldn't hear what was going on so there was one time in rochester new york steve gad was at the gig yeah most drummers in that area were at the gig he came off off and he said, how was I?

I said, you know how you were, and you were having problems up there. So I'm going to tell you a couple of things. One's going to hurt, but I want to help you. So I'm also going to try and help. So hear me out. The thing that's going to hurt is that Steve Gadd was in the audience, and his heart just sunk, man. I said, but look, G dad's a musician he knows not

everybody has a great night yeah and even with me not having a great night you're still play some great stuff here's what i want to say this to help you and this might help some other musicians that are listening to this by the way i said look when we get up on stage and we can't quite we don't have the facility just yet if it's early in the set or whatever we you know we come in and we can't quite hit what we're trying to play yeah then back it down simplify what you're trying to play a little bit until you get your sea legs till you get to where you you're acclimated to your instrument and then start going for it the other thing i strongly suggest is that you have your monitors way too hot you want to hear you keep the common mistake is to bring

the volume of your monitors up on stage bring them down yeah give yourself room play a little lighter not much play just a little bit lighter and i heard him play like that uh when willie dixon was asking him to play softly yeah at a rehearsal for a gig with john lee hooker that we're playing at Madison Square Garden. I never heard Ricky Hewitt play that softly in my life, so I knew it was a good one. Jesus. Richard was a boxer, man.

At any rate, you know, that's the sort of story I tell about Richie. I want to dig into it and let people know who he was. He was one of the most extraordinary musicians I've ever known. His heart and his feel and his touch were, he played, he got his, Elvin Jones was who he studied with literally, but he loved Elvin's

he studied with literally but he he loved alvin's uh um symbol work yeah he loved the cat played with uh um mitch mitch mitchell who played with jimmy hendrix yeah mitch mitchell toward him jeff picarro uh carlos vega they all adored ritchie hayward uh and he did them as well so i know we're getting toward the end of this but getting back to the community of things there was a perfect example of how community works and that's all i was telling rishi don't let it freak you out embrace it yeah but here's some tools to help you get to where you want to go right and so the last gig i'll let you read about that but it was a it was really his death shook me. I still think about him. He was one of those guys who

would say, Andy, like, hey, you ain't from around here, do you? That kind of thing. What? What's the name of your orchestra, Sonny? I mean, he's from Iowa. That place is flatter than a, you know, a whatever.

And he, there's a lot beneath. When you look at your feet, you're going to see a lot of things. Right. Prairie Earth by William Lee's Teeth Moon describes Kansas in that fashion. Sometimes we have to look to our feet to see what's beneath us. And Richie was certainly one of those guys that did that. And he had a lot of depth

as a human being, but he was such a crazed individual that you had to put that into the quotient as well. So yeah, very interesting guy. I absolutely miss him to this day. Oh, well, rest in peace, guys. I have have two more questions for you if you don't mind um the first one is you know you talk about looking you know downward seeing what what happened in the past do you is there anything you regretted not saying to lowell and richie before they passed away no uh lowell gave me an extraordinary, which was just, we took a couple of days and he just sat there and listened. He says, I want you to share with me whatever it is you think of me or whatever you need to say to me. And I did.

I told him, man, I love you. I fucking hate you for what you're doing with this. This is what I love about you. I think you're incredible. Your phrasing is monstrous. I think that's where your real strength is as a singer and as a player, is your phrasing. Your tone is obviously great, too.

You're a brilliant songwriter. You're this and that. You're in the habit of taking two steps forward, two steps, three steps back right it's maddening you split you you you disappear for days on end you know i said i i i get it but why are you doing this to yourself that's why when i get out of here i i know i've been a pain in the ass literally and figuratively to you. Maybe if I'm not there to call you on so many things,

you won't feel that pressure anymore. Yeah. That kind of thing. Richie and I also had the opportunity to talk to one another. And it was a different kind of talk. It was more about, look, we know you're going down. And we know that, like with Neon Park, who was our artist, we'll know when we're not going to be talking to each other. But at our shows, there's a montage of photos of the old band,

at least the new band. And there's a photo of Richie that my wife took when we were in Vancouver Island and it's Richie and it's not a photo like this where it's just it's raked and it looks like it's almost like riding a horse he's beaming at the camera and he's in full motion with playing the drums the specific smile on his face and the energy in full motion with playing the drums. The specific smile on his face and the energy that was there with Richie. And when he got off stage, he was like collapsing his feet.

He was shivering. He lasted another two weeks and he died. But Pollard caught that moment of him that said who he was as a player as a human being and that joy that he got from playing the drums yeah that's fucking beautiful man that's crazy it's heavy shit man bill thank you so much for sharing this time with me i know you're busy dude you got that life in Montana. It's amazing. Hey, we're playing together at summer camp that same night. We should get a hang in.

We should, man. Are you kidding? Oh, yeah. It's going down. You could talk to Fred. Fred is a big... I mean, I have a lot of roots in Fayetteville, Arkansas.

And Fred shares... He lives in Eureka Springs, I think, right? And Topanga Canyon. He's got two of those houses. Yeah, so. Yeah, right. Yeah, Sean, my guitar player, sits in with you guys a bunch. But we should definitely do something fun at summer camp together, man. I think it'd be great.

We should. Oh, well, let's organize it, Andy. Yeah, I'll get your contact. I'll get your contact from Fred. And let's start. Let's organize them. Because I play keys, too. It'd be fun to do some stuff together.

Oh, my gosh. OK, we'll figure that out quite easily. Oh, man. Bill Payne, thank you so much for being part of the show. Can't wait to see you at summer camp. And thank you for, honestly, I'll say this again. You're one of my favorite bands. Little Feet has inspired my band and it's inspiring to just finally get to talk to you about music, life, and death. I appreciate that.

I'll tell you what, man. I really, really enjoyed meeting you today. I look forward to seeing you. I can't wait. See you soon. Keep practicing that Mozart, baby. I'll talk to you soon. I can't wait. See you soon. Keep practicing that Mozart, baby. I'll talk to you soon. You don't have to. Okay.

Later. Take care. Bye. Now, a message from the U.S. Well, I've been from Tucson to Tukum, Cary To Hatch and Peter, Tone and Paul Driven every kind of rig that's ever been made Driven the back row so I wouldn't get weighed

And if you give me Weed, white, sand, wine Weak whites and white And you show me your side I'll be willing To be moving Smuggled some smokes and folks from Mexico Baked by the sun Every time I go to Mexico

And I'm willing Kicked by the wind, robbed by the sea Had my head stomped in but I'm still on my feet And I'm willing Oh, I'm willing Oh I'm willing Cause I've been from Tucson to Cumcari

To Hatchipede to Tonopah Driven every kind of rig that's ever been made Driven the back road so I wouldn't get weighed Take your time And if you give me

Please why, say why All right And you show me a sign I'll be willing To be moving Hey! All right, and we're back. We have an alumni of Summer Camp in the show tonight as well,

being one of our, I guess, co-hosts. That's a nice word. got dave bruza in the hot seat let's go let's go guest star guest star i like guest star you're so nice i love it i'm very nice person that's what i'm known for making me feel just my head's just exploding dave is here because like tupac shakur our boy dave bruza is going solo he's got a solo record that's so funny you say that because when i hear the word dave bruza the first person i think of is tupac you know i've been compared to tupac many times so it's a comfortable space for me i love it i'm i'm loving it um he's got a new record and we are going to premiere it today i'm down i love

music what an aunt thank you so you could have gone to are going to premiere it today i'm down i love music what an honor thank you so you could have gone to anyone you came to me and i'm thankful for that well i couldn't think of a better place to do this i love it well let's talk about that a little bit yeah um what's the record called it's called the heart of santa cruz it's kind of a tribute to my bass player mike devol since he lives in santa cruz oh bud and i couldn't think of anything you know living in colorado very surfy so i just went oh it's a surf music it's all instrumental surf rock nice which like dick dale kind of vibes yeah yeah adventures you know that kind of kind of vibe um it was just something that i was doing during the pandemic i was trying to get like, get my recording chops. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I knew how to record records, but never really took a look under the hood. So I was making experiments in my apartment and I wrote a bunch of instrumental surf rock for fun. And then two of the songs were pretty cool. So, and I've never put anything out on my own. It's always been with green sky or I've been a guest on a record. So this was the first time I've ever written, recorded, and I've performed all the instruments.

I play all of them. And I'm pretty excited. Putting your dick out on the table, big dog. I made a fellow record and Andy didn't care at all. Just kidding. It was really horny. Yeah, there's little facts on there. Dave, that's... Okay, so I want to... It was really horny. Dave, that's... Okay, so there's a couple things I want to talk about.

What got you into surf rock music? Well, at that time, I was just listening to a lot of old rootsy rock and roll. And it just kind of spoke to me. I was really interested in it and kind of did some research. And then when I was trying to do these experiments just to get myself more familiar with recording software, it just kind of came out like that. And I've always kind of enjoyed it,

but I took a deeper dive. Also, I was in the beginning of my sobriety. That was something to occupy some time and space, so I just kept myself busy. And this is kind of like a landmark in time where it was the beginning of sobriety and you're all those thoughts and all those and you know all those things that we were distracting ourself with is out and you put it out in this music yeah i think that was better to spend my energy and time doing this project than for me to keep drinking and stuff you know so fucking guy let's go and he's happy and that was i'm very happy i feel like

you're just glowing these days dude last time last two i feel like you're really just like owning the sobriety you're owning who you are as a person and you're just being confident enough to even put out a fucking solo record. It's so hard to put a solo record out. It is. And, uh, you know, I didn't know the amount of work that put into making a record. Cause we have a whole team that does that. And like, you're like every inch I'm like, Oh, that's the price tag.

Oh, that's what you gotta do. Yeah. But it was, it was totally worth it. It was fun to like, you know, check out the process on my own. And it was, uh, it's something that I've always wanted to do as a musician because I've always been a multi-instrumentalist. And it's something I've kicked around. Like, I should make a little record just for fun.

And then this is what happened. And I think my favorite part of the whole project is I'm only releasing this for the time being on a 7-inch 45 RPM record. Let's go. Going old school all day. This is what the music should be heard on. I love it.

And for the time being, I got a tour coming up in a couple days with my band, Unsafe at Any Speed, my side project through the Midwest. And this is where you can get the record. Are you doing these songs with that band? We're going to play these songs, yeah. I think it's going to be cool. The guys I have in the band are all fantastic players.

It's nice to have some other... I like that Unsafe Indie Speed kind of stands on its own legs. I'm always Dave from Green Sky. I'm proud to be Dave from Green Sky, but it's nice to go down different avenues and experiment with different types of music. I don't bring an acoustic guitar on this tour.

Oh, you don't? No, you don't. I just play electric guitar. Electric? Yeah. And you sing it down, right? Which one are you bringing? You bringing the Strat?

Oh, yeah. I'm bringing my Strat. I'm bringing my Tele. And then I got a great band, always Mr. Jimmy. I have a couple questions about this. Is there pressure? Do you feel like having to play a Green Sky song during that set? The unsafe stuff yeah

you know people i think are looking for it and the first time i went out with it a couple years ago yeah there's a lot of stuff that i do in green sky and then as it evolved it turned into a little bit of this a little bit of that then i have some other songs i've written that are you know just this rock and roll thing you know yeah I think I like to do it because it gives it a different vibe with these players versus my band. So you play some green sky songs with that, with the band. Yeah. Yeah. We've done a couple of Paul songs too, which was, we did. I'd probably kill you, which we did it like a funk kind of vibe. We can get saxophone on that. So, uh, you know, we, we do a little bit of everything though and it's a lot of uh you know i do a lot of covers i don't get to do in green sky yeah that's cool it's just nice because this lineup is you know we have two electric guitars and a bass keys and drums oh cool

yeah and it's kind of cool to like kind of reinvent songs you already written in the past yeah that is kind of like fun to like because like maybe the lyrics still mean so much to you but maybe you want to spice up like a little bit of the rhythm or spice up the tune a little bit yeah there's definitely been some changes in the green sky material that i play in this project and it's it's a cool vibe for sure it's nice just to relax for me too i feel like yeah isn't it crazy the more successful you get in your band the more pressure there is every show. Yeah. It's a little daunting, but I think I'm kind of leaning into just, you know,

Green Sky's been around for a long time. Yeah. And I'm real comfortable with where we're at. And, you know, I couldn't ask for anything more than I've had. I mean, I love what I've gotten to do. I mean, that's how we got to meet. You know, you came out and toured with us, and we had time and it's just it's a fun thing and i i'm uh not trying to be cliche but yeah i'm blessed man i'm thankful every day and grateful every day for what i get to do yeah and i'm happy

that you know mr guido batista is going to come out to the show shut the up he's tm yeah oh my god what a let's go you're bringing in all the enforcers okay i got a couple questions do you get nervous i do yeah i mean i get nervous with green sky i get nervous right now i get nervous yeah but like healthy nervous yeah like i think if you're not getting a little bit nervous yeah you might be too cold some people might call that caring you think pictures are like that? I like that. I care a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially like my solo stuff because in Green Sky, I'm very comfortable being number two, number three, number four, whatever. I like that. I can lean on my guys. My guys can lean on me.

Hell yeah. And we've been playing together for so long. That's a machine. The unsafe stuff, yeah, it's unsafe. We get together, and Michael Shimon and Mr. Jimmy, we've played together a lot, so they got the stuff down. And Jeremy and Justin are going to just fall right in, I believe. The people want to know,

are you going to be taking pictures of your Jordans on this tour? are you a jordan's guy he is he's a shoe collector that kind of happened um i love it quit drinking you start buying stuff the funny thing is i get these as gifts from people a lot i want gifts yeah dude he gets gifted so many like rare jordans they're not rare i wouldn't say oh i should have been talented. The black and whites with the red? Yeah, those are pretty sweet. Who gave you those? Don't blow the spot.

I'm not going to blow up the spot. Oh, like a store gave it to you? No, a friend. Oh, a homie, okay. I had a homie hook me up with some Grateful Dead dunks. Yeah, yeah. And I didn't know. I knew that people, the fuzzy ones, they're like these.

They're worth like $15,000. Yeah, that's what, you know, I think Don Strasburg, I wore them at Red Rocks last fall. Stay out of his pocket, Ty. Okay, Gerlach. Don't even worry about that. I'm in his pockets. They were making fun of me.

I'm going to be right in there. I'm going to be in his pockets. That's cool. We can be friends. Yeah. What'd you say? We're friends. I was just saying how Don Strasburg commented on my,

wow, Bruce is walking out in these thousands of dollars worth of shoes. It's really, yeah. So if I had Justin Bieber, yeah, yeah. Strasburg because green skies popping baby, let's go making that money. I think he knows they're popping. They do like three nights at Red Rock. Yeah.

We've been friends with Don for a long time. I think they have a good business relationship. Actually. Yeah. We've been there. there. That little place. Well, let's get to it. Let's listen to one of these songs. Okay, what's this first song about?

Let's do the first track on the 45. So they're instrumental? They're instrumental. That's why I was asking about you singing Green Sky. Gotcha. Yeah, and Green Sky is saying this was just, I wanted to try it. Hell yeah. There is a sample.

I have this old record about heart oscillation. So I found, I was hanging out with Chris Pandolfi and he was teaching me how to rip stuff from vinyl because I have a USB out of my turntable. So that was just a fun addition. This thing starts with that. And yeah, it's called Heart of Santa Cruz and it's dedicated to my bass player and friend, Mike Duvall.

Nice. Buddy. God, you are so sweet. Let's listen to Dave Bruza heart of Santa Cruz. That was great. Nice. It is the purpose of this record to describe and illustrate the majority of

sounds and memos, which may be heard in normal and pathological houses. Hell yeah! Is it drums? Yes. That's just a snare hi-hat. No acoustics? No acoustic guitar here at all. Hell yeah.

Exactly. I almost put such fun on it. See, I'm young. See, I got young energy. Hell yeah. I feel like I'm in that thing you do. Yeah. That's the era.

I fucking love it, dude. That's one of my favorite movies actually well let me keep listening Yeah, you cannot do that. It's pretty authentic to that era. What were you going to say, Dave? I was just saying it's just authentic, early 60s instrumental. It's fucking badass. Thanks. Julie's goingie's gonna like this hold on let me keep listening

oh another key change this is a nice little counter This is a nice little counter melody. Just a nice little counter melody. Oh, yeah, yeah. Rounds it out. And there's a nice sample at the end. So there's weight for this. Over here. A list of recommended references is provided on the cover for those who wish to investigate this interesting subject more intensely.

Let's fucking go, Bruiser! That's got to be a trip, dude. You did the whole thing. Yeah, it's wild to think that it's just me playing to a click track on three different guitars, bass, and then some drums. I'm looking forward to digging into it. Oh, my God. I'm so excited for you.

This is going to be fucking badass, dude. I'm pumped. Okay, so I got to ask. You know, you got this lifestyle now, Dave. You're a big rock star. You're a big rock star. You go out here. You get on the tour bus.

You do your thing. Oh, we're in a van for this. That's what I'm saying. So how are the vibes going to be? You're going to be back in the van, Dave. Do you need a rental? bus you get you do your thing oh we're in a van for this that's what i'm saying so how are how are the vibes going to be you're going to be back in the van you need a rental we're renting vans we got you bud we i'm not doing starting a rental business i'm excited i i just asked my my i have a little crew and everything i'm just like you know as long as i don't have to drive them fine hell yeah hell yeah yeah let's go and your own hotel room dave no you know wow andy wow i mean it's it's tough don't get any ideas but i still want my own room okay thank you well you know well there's an odd man now

different it's a different world touring right now it's a gas is expensive we're just talking hotels are expensive like you know i've been budgeting the tour and like wow this is getting kind of close and like i'm not worried about making the money i just want to go out there and do this after the past couple years we've all had you know all that i don't really care about that yeah i want to go out there for myself and i want to go out there for the people that like my music and like to come see me play that's a great way to end up making money later too yeah it's just you know what i mean it'll be fine you know like when it's all over i'm sure it's gonna be okay if i lose money i don't really care right i don't want to but this is more important is getting out there since everyone's kind of re-emerging in the world and you know i have a little bit of a break and so i

filled it with everything I could possibly do. Yeah, let's go. I'm so excited for this record. I'm so excited for you. Thanks. And like you said, the reason why we're doing a solo project is to have fun and to play music

and not stress about the big machine that is Green Sky because you think about it all the time. And for you to say okay i know i'm not gonna make money this is gonna be fun and it's gonna i just want to be i just want to be stress-free about it it's the best attitude yeah it's good and then you know every time i've done one of these tours i find that i bring something new back for green sky yeah in my own playing i learned something on any tour i go on, any tour I go on, because we've always, we always like to curate a good time. So we've always had opening acts. We

love that. And that's how we get to pick who we want. And that's how we became friends. Oh, you guys toured together. Oh yeah. We had Andy out in 2019 or 18. Right before the pandemic. How many shows did you guys do? About two weeks, right? Yeah. Two weeks tour. Oh, so enough to get to know each other.

Yeah. We were hanging and having a good time. I weeks. Oh, so enough to get to know each other. Yeah, we were hanging and having a good time. I always be scared of Dave because Dave used to smoke cigarettes. It's kind of intimidating. You are a little intimidating. By the bus, by himself. Is it the mustache? I don't know. You're just like... Yeah, I'm kind of a loner. You would hide by the bus, buy yourself a smoke cigarette. Yeah, I love it. You didn't want anyone

to talk to, but I knew that was my only time to say hi because I know you'd be... Oh, we hit it off, though. We fucking hit it off. Yeah, because you are a nice guy are a nice guy you're a badass thank you i spent the whole pandemic with this dude i remember he brought wings that one time yeah that was a fun day i love a lot of board games over here yeah well i used to live about a mile from here before i moved back to cap hill and so andy and i you know of course i was still drinking back back then so we were hanging out a little more than drinking back back then so he's a good person hang out when you're still drinking I've been doing good we hang

out now you're sober I don't know I was looking a chance to see it I mean those days the epic game of risk well yeah well Dave we're really excited for you and I'm so happy to just fucking be here in Denver. I'm so happy. I was worried. I thought we were going to lose you to Chicago, but our boys here, I'm sticking here. Good. Well, you'll be making so much money off the solo record. You'll be buying a house in Chicago. So that's, well, that's the thing. That's definitely the climate of the music industry right now. Yeah. Everyone wants a seven inch 45.

Surf rock is coming back. Before we decide because we'll close with that, because this is a summer camp episode. Yes. As an alumni of summer camp, what was your favorite moment of summer camp? Oh, my God. You've done it a lot, right?

We've done a lot. We've played almost, I think we've played every stage, except for the Red Barn. I think that's the only thing we haven't done. What's the smallest one you did? We did way back in the day. Campfire or the campground. Well, no, we did did the it was still just the campfire outside of the red barn and it was literally just like a campfire yeah yeah yeah remember like man this is years

and years ago holy but we'd start at like three in the morning and it was i mean i've had so many epic times dodging tornadoes and getting rained on or being fried 2013. you know i was there but uh and i think the last time we were there uh it was us then phil lesh and friends and then anders played with with phil for the night and that was that was fun i loved seeing inside sage watching hunters just eyes just so big and yeah you know we've had we've played with phil before and just to see anders up there having a good time and meshing. Summer camp's always so great. Did you ever make it to Stasek's kickball tournament

at 4 a.m.? 6 a.m. I have definitely been... Not on purpose. I woke up early to do these things. You went to bed at 8 o'clock. Oh, look at here my cup of coffee's ready my bird's twittering outside of my football game yeah yeah i you know i've

seen some photographs of me and up at dawn off the balcony well ladies and gentlemen you're here at first in the world saving podcast dave bruza pearl street lounge Dave Bruza, Pearl Street Lounge. This is fun. I like premiering songs like this. You should do this more often. This is good. I love it. Yeah, but what if you didn't like it, though?

It'd be awkward. It'd be so awkward. Like, your band sucks. That's the thing. You gotta have people where you like their music. Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, this is cool. I think this song grows.

Yeah, no, I'm just saying it would suck to have to premiere someone's record and be like, don't like it. Yeah, that would be awkward. Yeah. I would have sex to this song. FYI. This is a sexy song. That's quite an endorsement, Andy.

Yeah, yeah, no problem. Let's keep listening. Let's keep listening. That's a 1960s Stratocaster they play on. Really? Oh, yeah. Yours? Yeah.

I got a lot done on it. You got a lot of guitars? I've been liquidating lately, but... Yeah, but you're a guy. You're a guitar guy, you know? You got a lot of guitars. Got a lot of guitars. They're good assets.

They don't really... They hold their value. Yeah. They increase. That's the same way. Kind of like a blues, huh? I like this. Yeah.

It's loungy. Yeah, and it kind of feels like Tom Waits. I like the spring reverb. Yeah. It's like right off the amp. You can tell. Here's the unfocused part I was referencing. Oh, let's listen.

This would be awesome in a movie. I think someone might want to pick this up. Scoring some kind of comedy film or something on the desert. You know what I mean? Totally. Some sort of slow-moving, character-driven comedy, sort of, with a quirky main character. Here's where it starts to hit. I think it's tight! Yeah, no one's arguing that.

Well, the way you said it sounded like we were like, I don't want to. I thought you were questioning it. No, I'm saying it. No, no, no, let's keep listening. Got us next. Big old stuff. There's some more interplay in this next section here with drums and guitar

here comes the beat listen to the lead and the drums here. This is the best part of all two oh here it comes right here I would enjoy drinking. Oh, here it comes right here. Here you go. So fucking awesome. Damn, that was so funny. Fucking it.

Dave. Oh, yeah. I love it. Dave, I'm so excited for this. And I'm happy that you are pushing this. And I'm happy that you put, I say it a lot, but putting it out there. Yeah. And just getting this out there. Thanks.

I love you, bud. I love you, too. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. For being part of the show. It's good to have a rock star on the show. I know. Finally. I love you, bud. Thank you so much for being part of the show. Good to have a rock star on the show. I know, finally. Fucking finally. I love having rock stars at the house,

just sitting on that couch. Well, if you work hard, like Andy was saying, as a band, you too could sit on Andy Frasco's couch. Let's go! Let's go! See, friends hyping friends up. That's how we should live like this. Not this fucking troll bullshit, okay? Friends hyping friends up that's how we should live like this not this troll

okay friends hyping friends up we love you all right enjoy summer camp and uh go buy dave's record it's going to be out in two days right friday on the 12th yeah and uh playing ferndale michigan auto supply that day yeah do the whole week yeah so we got the 12th ferndale michigan auto supply 13th up in cadillac michigan at coyote crossing great spot uh the 13th i'll be at bells my hometown hometown show baby and then uh let's see here 15 16 the 17th i'm in at the evanston space that's cool oh that's like the jazz club kind of vibe yeah i've never been there it's great the same person castle theater okay yeah and then uh on the 18th i'm in st paul the turf club and then um the 20th i'll be at bluegrass in the bottoms of festival in kansas city with that band yep and then uh the 21st to end the tour at the old rock house in st louis missouri oh hell yeah well dave good luck with everything

have a great tour be safe thanks andy, Andy. Drink water. Yes, lots of water. Bubble water. Eat some bomb food. Eat some bomb food. Get some hot dogs in Chicago. Yeah. Well, Dave, I'm happy for you. Thank you for coming to the house to promote the record.

My pleasure. And let's go have dinner when you get back from this tour. Sounds great. All right, buddy. Popeyes. Dave Brews, everyone. Fuck yeah. We're going to Popeyes. Popeye slaps. I want to get wings. I want to get those buffalo wings again. Those are great. All right, buddy. Popeyes. Day brews, everyone. Fuck yeah. We're going to Popeyes.

Popeyes slaps. I want to get wings. I want to get those buffalo wings again. Those are fire. All right. Fire on the mountain. Let's talk about this

after the show. Nope. Nope. Bye. Nope. You tuned in to the World Cypher Podcast with Andy Fresco.

Thank you for listening to this episode produced by Andy Fresco, Joe Angelo, and Chris Lawrence. We need you to help us save the world and spread the word.

Please subscribe, rate the show, give us those crazy stars, iTunes, Spotify, wherever you're picking this shit up. Follow us on Instagram at world saving podcast

for more info and updates. Fresco's blogs and tour dates you'll find at andyfresco.com and check our socials to see what's up next. Might be a video dance party, a showcase concert, that crazy shit show, or whatever springs to Andy's wicked brain.

And after a year of keeping clean and playing safe, the band is back on tour. We thank our brand new talent booker, Mara Davis. We thank this week's guest, our co-host, and all the fringy frenzies that help make this show great. Thank you all. And thank you for listening. Be your best, be safe, and we will be back next

week.