Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 180: Wheeler Walker Jr

Episode Date: July 12, 2022

Shawn joins the fray as he opens the show with Andy this week. Friends on stage AND in real life?! You better believe it, baby. And on the Interview Hour we got the elusive Wheeler Walker Jr! Learn ab...out the necessity of trolls and why he *wants* to get cancelled. Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out Andy's new song, "Puff Break (Believe That)" on iTunes, Spotify  Check out the incredibly funny Wheeler Walker Jr: www.wheelerwalkerjr.com Produced by Andy Frasco Joe Angelhow Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Shawn Eckels Arno Bakker

Transcript
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Starting point is 00:00:00 Andy, it's Nick. I'm calling you from Iceland. Here's the thing. I've been here for two days, and I've made the executive decision. I'm never coming back. I'm quitting the podcast forever. I stepped off the plane in Reykjavik. They saw my flowing red beard, and this fits me for Eric the Red. I am a Viking god to them. I'm being highly revered by everyone here as far as I can tell. People are bringing me food and wine and taking care of me. They think I'm important.
Starting point is 00:00:30 So I won't be coming back. Thanks for everything. I hope everything goes well. I hope the sit-ins are going well. I think you're in the 50s now or something like that. So I just want to call you and give you a heads up. I won't be coming back to America. Thanks for everything.
Starting point is 00:00:44 Okay, Andy, just calling't be coming back to America. Thanks for everything. Okay, Andy, just calling you back. Things have changed. You were right. It's pretty expensive here. Like, I kind of underestimated how much everything costs, and I'm running low on funds. I was wondering if you could advance me for next week's salary, plus maybe another couple, like 2K? I know you got it right now. You've been playing festivals all over the country. I see your crowd. Okay. I know you have the money, man. Just send it, dude. Just hit me on Venmo. The Wi-Fi here is pretty good, man. So just, can you send me like, I don't know, three grand? I don't know. Maybe four grand. Honestly, I might need five grand to get through the week. And then I'm definitely coming back now. Apparently I was wrong about the Viking thing and they were just being nice because they work here
Starting point is 00:01:27 and they were a flight attendant. And so things aren't going as good as I thought. And so if you could just get that money to me. If you, I really need it by the end of the day. If anything, by lunch, if you can do that. Okay, have a good day. I'll see you next week for work again. There you go, that's that if you can do that. Okay, have a good day. I'll see you next week for work again. There you go.
Starting point is 00:01:47 That's that synchronicity. Is that a word? Synchronicity. Synchronicity. Synchronicity. Synchronicity. And we're back. Andy Frasco's World Seizing Podcast.
Starting point is 00:01:56 I'm Andy Frasco. How we doing? How's our heads? How's our minds? We got my second man in charge, my vice president, fucking Sean Eccles. Hey, man. Sean. Hey, man. Sean. Hey, buddy.
Starting point is 00:02:08 Wow. We never get to hang out in Denver when we're... Yeah, well, I mean, we kind of did on 4th of July there for a second. That was nice. Yeah. We were both depleted and empty shells of a man. Trying to impress the ladies in our life. Nice weekend I'm here.
Starting point is 00:02:24 Being present. We're being present. Oh, shit. It's so hard to sleep when we're not on the road. Do you sleep better on the road or off the road? I mean, you're kind of forced to sleep on the road when you can because you get those little disco naps on planes or whatever you fight for and then you're so tired that you do actually sleep.
Starting point is 00:02:43 But I'm at home. I think too much. You're off your routine and you're not in gig mode so it's like okay I'm just waking up at 9 p.m. on the road and then it's like yeah let's go to bed at night shit doesn't work no it doesn't fucking work it takes too long does Toby get pissed no but she just early riser and goes to bed earlier do you have to lay in bed with her or can you like watch TV yeah for sure.
Starting point is 00:03:07 But usually, as it goes, if you turn your screen off, get it all dark, you'll fall asleep eventually. How many edibles do you have to eat? Unlike my wife, I can eat 10 to 20. I'm 50 if I'm feeling crazy.
Starting point is 00:03:19 50 milligrams? 50 fucks me up, and it's fun. It's like peel yourself off the couch, and it's a little scary, too. It's like, whoa. Have you been eating those dieting gummies? I have. in gummies they're my favorite yeah yeah they taste the best and like yeah they're good you can manage those like on planes we've been eating those yeah killer i love it what about the i've i've been rocking them before i go to bed now although one the other the other morning we were flying somewhere we had two flights i ate one on
Starting point is 00:03:42 the first flight and i had a second one and I had a little panic attack. Well, yeah. I was like sweating my ass off and everything. I was like, oh man, I ate too many. It was like 10 minutes of hell.
Starting point is 00:03:52 And we stayed up all night. Sure, yeah. So you're like, it's kind of breaking you out and feeling like a crazy person. I hate that. Remember when we were going to China and we ate those big old-
Starting point is 00:04:02 Yeah, you had a fucking panic attack. I had a panic attack. I was crying. Those were like the first edibles ever. Yeah, yeah. I know. It's those big old. Yeah, you had a fucking panic attack. I had a panic attack. I was crying. Those were like the first edibles ever. Yeah, yeah. I know. It's like too strong. Yeah, I fought through that one too.
Starting point is 00:04:10 I was like, okay, man, you're cool. You're sweating. Just high. Yeah. Yeah. You got to be careful. You got to know your percentage, your milligram and all that shit. That's why I like the dialed in.
Starting point is 00:04:20 So grab some dialed in gummies. They're so tasty. They are good. They're fucking good. And they're hard to get. I mean, Colorado, they sell out all the time. Proof's in the pudding there, man. Proof's in the fucking pudding.
Starting point is 00:04:30 So grab yourself some dialed-in gummies if you're in the Colorado area. You got a busy week this week? Yeah, I have a busy week. Playing all over Denver. Playing up in Vail, Shakedown with Corey Montgomery. Playing at Washington Park Grill, doing that thing. I might be playing with Little Feet next Friday. When? They're playing at Fiddler's Green.
Starting point is 00:04:49 Let's fucking go. I'm going to go hang out. And usually when I go hang out, those guys are like, Dude, don't call. Bring it, bring it, bro. Fred's got to let you. Fred and Bill, those guys at summer camp were amazing. That was so cool. Well, you've opened for Little Feet a bunch. Whole bunch.
Starting point is 00:05:06 I met Fred, like, at a festival that Humphreys McGee headlined in like 2003 in Arkansas called The Great Unknown. And the promoter's like, hey man,
Starting point is 00:05:14 guitar player from Little Feet is sitting right over there and nobody's talking to him or having him sit in. So I'd heard of them. I'd heard Waiting for Columbus, their super, their badass album
Starting point is 00:05:22 like a couple times and thought it was dope. So I started talking and been friends ever since. Fucking sick. His stories. Played with Bob Dylan, Bob Seger in the Silver Bullet Band. He was on Sonny and Cher Show and all the TV shows in the 70s. You're slowly becoming that type of legend too.
Starting point is 00:05:38 Let's go. Never stop. Let's fucking go. Let's go. Train don't stop. Our boy don't stop. Bro. I mean, while you're here, let's talk about all of your fucking side projects you got. Stop. Let's fucking go. Let's go. Train don't stop. Our boy don't stop. Bro.
Starting point is 00:05:48 I mean, while you're here, let's talk about all of your fucking side projects you got. You got Tongue Hammer. Tongue Hammer coming soon. So go like our page on Instagram. It's Tongue Hammer. Once we reach 500 followers, we're at two right now. Okay. We have a fucking badass rock video. Okay.
Starting point is 00:06:00 My wife's in it. It's crazy. I swear to God, it's like a 90s rock video. This is kind of like an all-star band. Yeah, man. That's all coming together. And we's in it. It's crazy. I swear to God, it's like a 90s rock video. This is kind of like an all-star band. Yeah, man. That's all coming together. And we have a video. We're recording it color red.
Starting point is 00:06:10 Just putting it together. It's kind of some heavier shit. Are you thankful you moved to Denver? I am the most thankful that we moved to Denver. Yeah. It's great. I said it yesterday. I don't know if you...
Starting point is 00:06:21 Or two days ago when I was at High Sierra. We'll talk about that too. But it's really true. Like, I moved out here because I saw, like, how dope you were doing out here. Better than I've done anywhere else. Yeah. There's music. I mean, it's beautiful out here.
Starting point is 00:06:36 I'm sold. What about, like, when you go back to Springfield, Missouri? Well. Do they fucking, do they resent you now because you haven't came back? No, I mean, most people have moved on. I mean, you know, yeah, you know what I mean But it's in the music scene is totally different everything around the handful of friends I still see you know the old band and everything and but you know, it's kind of like I don't know You're a different man. I'm a different man. Other people are different people. Some people are still at the same happy hour
Starting point is 00:07:02 Fucking nine years ago now in that crazy in October. That's nine years time's so fine how long we've been together 13 12 years yes yeah i think i met you in at nine or 2000 2009 or 2010. yeah something like that is that wednesday i always see a memory on facebook it's like oh that's how long dog in the solar panels i opened for you guys and then yep he said my buddy buddy Andy needs a gig, man. I was like, ah, it's Wednesday night. He goes, he doesn't want any money. I was like, sign him up. Let's go.
Starting point is 00:07:32 So that's how I met you. My guy. You know, you had the right price. Yeah. Free. People don't know. Sean does solo acts. He does a solo show.
Starting point is 00:07:41 He probably does three or four nights a week solo shows. When I'm home. Yeah. It's so hard to entertain someone solo. You and Steve Pultz are the only guys and John Cranky. I have nothing on Steve Pultz. That was unbelievable at High Sierra. That's something else. Wasn't High Sierra fucking magical?
Starting point is 00:07:57 Yes, it was. The vibe there, pretty magical. Peach had its own vibe, which was insanity and crazy and then high sea i don't know man there was something special well we like we kind of expected yeah but i think playing before steve poltz that fired us hyped us up because he was he i don't know man he did something i've never seen before yeah exactly he's just connected in a crazy shout out to steve poltz one of the goats we wrote a song our new album we're gonna have we wrote a song together yeah me sean and steve called paul mcdonald called high on our own supply sure good
Starting point is 00:08:30 let's go that's a good one i'm excited i love it i think it's gonna kill let's write an opener it's like a banger yeah we wrote a banger so sean's here because we're um we're in the process of making a new record that's right and we have he put he brought a couple songs of the palette and it's just so and it's so hard to write when we're always so busy yeah but i mean you've taught me just to get in there and start doing it and you know start sautéing them onions yeah and if it starts cooking you're off to the races like the one we wrote with steve and paul it's 45 minutes the whole thing was done was so fast. Why do we overthink songwriting? Personally, I do that when I do it alone.
Starting point is 00:09:09 I overthink shit way more. But when you have somebody to instantly bounce on, we've written a bunch of shit together now. So it's like, okay, is that cool? No. Okay, what else are we going to do? Is that cool? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:09:18 And it's just quicker to get to it. But we got to just trust our musicianship now these days. Yeah, and each other's opinions. And each other's. That's the opinions and each other I wouldn't tell you it's not cool if it's not cool yeah no or like you know the other way around or like getting offended if we don't like something that's what they get over all that shit yeah and get over doing it yourself cuz you want it to be yours yeah I mean yeah yeah cuz we're not making money off fucking way yeah we might as well write the best songs we can together.
Starting point is 00:09:46 Yeah. And if we're making money, we split it up. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. That's like, it's, everyone thinks like, oh, we want this. It's like a kind of a greed. That's what I learned in Nashville. Like a lot of dudes, that's why we have Wheeler Walker Jr. on the show. He's totally anti-Nashville.
Starting point is 00:10:01 Yeah, right. And he fucking hates the process of Nashville. And you're going to hear it in the interview.'s insane that's funny but um i learned that pro like everyone's just trying to get their cut yeah that's different thing there instead of just art just like oh yeah you're writing can i get it yeah it's like that oh god can i get my five and a half percent yeah oh i wrote that one word here's 17 percent how about 18. yeah how about 18. but um you know that's the way of the game syllable word man i don't know well it's like we grew up being a lot we grew up like all we know is how to
Starting point is 00:10:31 entertain people live like we i mean we wrote songs because we had to but it wasn't like our business we didn't think we were going to make money off songs exactly and still don't still don't yeah but i mean yeah i don't know know. I think that thing about being defensive writing, that's different than the Nashville thing. It's like we know now when we write with people that we're friends with and we love. I mean, it's quick results and everybody reads the room, right? The thing with Paul and Steve was so fast.
Starting point is 00:10:59 It was crazy. And it was fun as shit. We were laughing our asses off writing that song. Yeah, we got to take that philosophy when we go and start cooking with the band yeah for sure i think and i've taken that around with like robbie peoples and corey montgomery when i go right with those guys i take our process to them be like yeah whatever just throw it out there best idea wins go go go and yeah always get results that way and don't get your feelings hurt you know it's like kind of like
Starting point is 00:11:21 a fun competitiveness like oh yeah i wrote that cool verse yeah you know yeah for sure like fuck just like I've the music industry sometimes it's just like so catty yeah I mean I don't know it's like I guess you want to be the artist but that's mine yeah cuz I created it no don't help me yeah yeah it's like like my song today like back down I was seven years ago I'd be like, I'm not going to play this for Andy Frasco until I'm done with it. Yeah. Now it's like, I got a chorus.
Starting point is 00:11:50 Yeah. And you're like, dude, ditch that. And like, cool, let's ditch that chord thing and just do what we're talking about. Whatever. It's totally cool. Are you comfortable now to start playing original songs during your solo set? It's like, who gives a shit? Some of those.
Starting point is 00:12:04 That's what that is because you're playing like a beer garden. I'm not going to get into my feelings there. What's the most depressing gig, solo gig? I did a baby or a wedding shower once. That was a long time ago. I don't know if that was more depressing or just weird. Yeah. It was like instrumental.
Starting point is 00:12:19 Girls are impressing each other with presents. How do you get out of the mind state of after playing for 10,000 people at Peach Fest and then playing a gig and never... I know I'm not working at a restaurant. Yeah, fuck it. Let's go. Let's go! I'm still having a beer.
Starting point is 00:12:36 Do you ever get like, when you're super hungover and you get to that gig? I remember, it was what, two weeks ago? We stayed up all night because we had a 6 a.m. flight. And our show ended at 4. And you're like, I got to play at noon. And then I got to play at 5 the next day. It's rough.
Starting point is 00:12:53 And I lost my voice. You ever just cry? No. I'd cry. I'd be like, oh, God. Yeah. I don't know. That might even work for the tip jar at that point.
Starting point is 00:13:06 Please. I just remember that I had to fly so early. Sympathy tips. My dopamine. I think I just get like fucking angry about it. Working on that?
Starting point is 00:13:17 Yeah, you are. You feel like getting better. How's therapy doing? It's great, man. Yeah? It helps. It helps a shitload.
Starting point is 00:13:23 Yeah. I'm just getting, you know. Feeling better? Keep the beasts at ease here. I know, you know you it's like don't make Hulk mad yeah you haven't really gone I don't know you keep it in pretty well but don't yeah you come with that word outward guy in every way yeah excited you know they get fired up I get fired up to you because like also like me and you have the same we're just passionate
Starting point is 00:13:45 yeah to a fault and it always fucks me up whenever because I know it fucks you up when we play Dream and like that last line it's like such our life I try to not let it it's like it just hits me hard we cry every time we do it yeah and it's like
Starting point is 00:14:00 thanks for writing that fucking song that shit is our life that is completely our life and it's like, thanks for writing that fucking song. Because it's like, that shit is our life. It is, man. That is completely our life. And it's relevant to right now and what's happening with us. This shit moves me. It's cool. Living on the road.
Starting point is 00:14:13 I invite those emotional feelings. It feels good, too. Yeah. Just let that shit out. Yeah, it's good. Living on the road. That's why you should sign up for Repsy.com. That's right.
Starting point is 00:14:23 Living on a prayer, living on the road. Repsy. Repsy.com. That's right. Living on a prayer, living on the road. Repsy. Repsy.com. If you got a band, if you're a wedding planner, if you're an independent venue. If you're in a Bon Jovi cover band. If you're in a fucking Bon Jovi cover band, sign up for Repsy.com.
Starting point is 00:14:35 They will get you gigs. It does help. And it's going to help your agent because your agent, I just had a meeting when Bon Jovi came to our, shout out to Bon Jovi one more time, the best agent on the planet. Our guy, a fucking stud. I was talking to him
Starting point is 00:14:50 at Pete's Fest, he showed up and I didn't know he was going to show up and he shows up and he's like, you know, next year, it's going to be tough, it's going to be rough. Cannibalism, everyone wants a tour for the next year and a half and the ticket sales are going to be shit, so you might as well get as many gigs
Starting point is 00:15:05 as possible do the sean eccles method get gigs solo get gigs with a band get gigs with your side band get gigs sean eccles keep gigging play gigs just play gigs take all of them take all of them and that's why you should sign up for reps that'scom that's right Repsy alright we got a big week we'll clap up to Repsy too we got a big week Sean we only got one show this week well you have 20,000 but next weekend
Starting point is 00:15:32 when this comes out we play The Workout ooh that's gonna be good in Thornville, Ohio and then Cobblestone Live Cobblestone in Buffalo
Starting point is 00:15:40 watch out Buffalo fuck every time I I have to take a deep breath every time I go to Buffalo because- They might throw you through a fucking table. Yeah, they might throw me through a goddamn table. And they just are, I think they are the, them and Charleston, they party the hardest out
Starting point is 00:15:56 of anyone I've ever had to deal with. I'm not arguing that. You can't argue- Those two places, they go hard as fuck. Bo, you're from Buffalo. Why are they so dangerous with their alcoholism just look at both that's cold and there's nothing to do it's cold nothing to do he says shout out to that i bet alaskans rage i bet alaskans just get belligerent um
Starting point is 00:16:16 but yeah we got a big week ahead of us we have wheeler walker jr this guy's the you ready for this one i covered it yeah we're playing we're playing. We played it. It was great. Remember when we just did things just to make us laugh? Now we have to do it because a potential will make us money. Right, yeah. Still trying to... Why can't we just like... You know, fuck... You get better shit if you just try to make each other laugh anyways.
Starting point is 00:16:37 I know. That's what we got to focus on. Have fun. We got to remember that we need to have fun with this process. I think we need to... When we write with the band, we need to write some fucking couple more dirty songs down you know it's been a minute shook the chick the flag yeah my little know that we're still freaky yeah baby hey Sean you want to do a
Starting point is 00:16:56 motivational speech you got anything in you the tank today you know just get out there and do every gig you can yeah just take Just take every gig. Just take every gig. You know, you play a brunch gig, and then you do a rehearsal, and then you go do a late-night gig, and you wake up, and you do that shit again, get out there, because you never know if you're not going to have a gig to do. God, motherfucking Teresa of the music scene. This man's the hardest-working guy.
Starting point is 00:17:19 You know, don't take it from me. I fill my time with all these other obstacles this guy goes straight to music nothing but music and he's making it work so guys there's hope just do it you know it's going to give you cataracts bad news and cataracts and maybe uh a couple bruises in your liver but you know when it's all said and done, you happy being a musician? So happy. I'm happier than I've ever been. You could have done, you could have gave up.
Starting point is 00:17:50 I could have still been working at the restaurant. You could have been still working at the restaurant, living in Springfield, but you followed your dreams. Follow your dreams, people. Never say no, never lay down. Never surrender. Get out of it. All right, let's go write that song.
Starting point is 00:18:02 Let's write a hit so we could get out of it. Let's try to have some mailbox money. Let let's write a hit so we can get out of it let's let's try to like have some mailbox money let's bang out a hit alright cool alright guys enjoy Wheeler Walker while we try to
Starting point is 00:18:11 bang out a hit bye hey Wheeler how you doing buddy what's up Andy right yeah it's Andy
Starting point is 00:18:20 how you doing how are you man I'm happy to be on the podcast thanks for doing this i don't say i don't say yes to a lot of podcasts but um you want to hear my requirements for podcasts yes sir um is it huge i don't know if they tell me it's huge i'll go to it but if and i'm not going to be rude to you but i i'll be honest i'd never heard of you and they said they showed me some of the people been on that trader burt kreischer a couple other
Starting point is 00:18:51 musicians who weren't bad this guy's legit i go i don't know if i want to do it and then my manager says you can do it from your house book it what how that's that's the that's the Wheeler podcast. Why do you think Bert's a traitor? Give me that. He was in Nashville and I was supposed to do his podcast. I told the story on your mom's house and turns out him being busy was doing another podcast for like eight hours. Yeah, he's, he's, Bert's one of my friends. He's, he loves promotion. He's really, well, it's, what was funny.
Starting point is 00:19:37 So it was this podcast called Bussing with the Boys. I did the podcast too, because it's in Nashville. Oh yeah. He said he had to cancel because he had shit to do. And I get, I get that he's got shit to promote too. And I made fun of him with Sigur on his podcast. But it was like...
Starting point is 00:19:52 So I'm waiting for my Bussin' with the Boys episode to air. I did the podcast and the next week I see Bert Kreischer part one. And then next week after that, Bert Kreischer part two. So he was there long enough for two episodes he canceled on me to sit in a to bus with the boys for 12 hours
Starting point is 00:20:11 there's no loyalty anymore wheeler what the i don't know i'm with you man you grew up in kentucky he's at what's your vibe yeah yeah i'm from kentucky where are you from I'm I grew up in LA I live in Denver now why'd you choose them because I was I decided that LA is just a bunch of bullshits chasing the rabbit's tail type of artists who don't really have an identity so I looked at your shit a little bit so you're a musician I'm a musician yeah and I've been doing you're like if I were if I were to search your would it be under your name or is there a band andy frasco yeah cool we've been doing 250 shows a year for the last 15 years we're well i'm pushing 30 this year i don't know if you told me if you
Starting point is 00:20:59 told me 35 i'd say i couldn't do it so i don't know how you do 250. But let's talk about the music first. It seems like you really hate country. So why did you have an alter ego? Well, but that's the thing is I love country and I hate what these fuckers have done with it. Yeah. So I was like, wouldn't I be the world's tallest midget if I played actual country? Right. the world's tallest midget if i played actual country right and not to mention a dude who in this era of streaming and being able to upload yourself i didn't censor myself and said it was actually on my mind right um wouldn't i and my my thought was i'd be the king
Starting point is 00:21:39 i didn't think it would actually work but i was like i want to give it a shot you know right and i knew uh so i knew sturgill simpson from back from kentucky he said i got this producer named dave cobb who's probably crazy enough to do this album you're talking about and i said i went out and uh the true story is i i was my family is from kentucky and from n I was in Nashville as a family and I went to Dave Cobbs and I'd heard he had lived in LA and I hate LA motherfuckers just like you. Although I do like the Lakers, which we can talk about later. Yeah. That's my team. I saw you like, I saw you like the Lakers. I don't know why,
Starting point is 00:22:17 but I'll tell you, we'll talk about that later. But I saw Dave Cobb and I'd heard he lived in LA and I'm like, I don't know. I like his records i like what i've heard but i'm gonna go to his house because he said come over we'll talk and then we'll grab lunch and when and i said if he takes me to some fancy because nashville was starting to get you know a little cool which i hate the fucking new nashville driving me up the fucking wall anyway so i made a decision i said i'm gonna meet the dude if he takes me to some fancy schmancy nashville cool hip lunch place i'm not doing the record with him he didn't know this and i don't think i've ever told him this story so he's um we were talking for a few minutes he showed me around
Starting point is 00:22:55 his home studio and he goes so you want to grab lunch you go cool yeah i go where you want to eat he goes well there's a waffle house around the corner. And I just said, return right there. I said, you got the gig. Let's fucking go. So how important is authenticity to you? I mean, what else is there? Right. I mean, is there anything else? No. But like, this music industry is so unauthentic right now in 2022 to try to be authentic in a world of people just being so fucking fake it's just it's harder than it ever was like what makes you still want to play music
Starting point is 00:23:32 um there's nights i think about it myself man i mean when i when i look up at you know this wheeler movement of crowds i'm seeing we just just, we play to, you know, we're playing to probably 2000 people a night, which is not, not arenas, but it's still crazy to me. Then it's been many to get that many people in, you know, these small towns, especially cause I try not to play the big too much of the big cities because I fucking hate them.
Starting point is 00:23:58 But seeing what I'm seeing, I think people are just dying for something that, you know, I'll scream out to the crowd, fuck fuck corporate country fuck the radio and all these i got wheeler's got a very specific audience which is people who don't the majority of people especially in america i don't know the rest of the world i don't go there i don't like it but in america people just open their mouth and they feed the bullshit that they're giving netflix shove shits down your throat all these other fucking whoever it is spotify this and people just gobble this shit up so the people that's why people come to me a lot you know like netflix or who's a new on paramount plus they want to they want they come to me they want to
Starting point is 00:24:41 do a wheeler movie and i always tell them go and they and then it usually leads to one of two things one is they want to tell me how to do it and i say off for number two they go we'd also like to own your music and then i tell them to off what they're trying to do is i have a very specific audience and my fans don't take and that's the last that is the last audience that for example, Netflix can't get that audience because Netflix's job is to feed bullshit down people's throats. They got those algorithms.
Starting point is 00:25:13 They got those things of like this show sucks. We know it sucks, but we spent $10 million on it. So we're just going to feed it to you. You don't even know you're getting it. You just click on the Netflix button and we're going to shove it down your throat and i just i feel like what they're really trying to do like i said netflix offered me something recently i told them to go their mother um what they're really trying to do is they're trying to buy my fans right so i'll get the check
Starting point is 00:25:40 what i'm selling them is my fans and i don't want to sell my fans to them right because they're too loyal to me they they stream and buy my and my t-shirts and shit i'm not going to sell them out like that yeah and then the deal ever came yeah if the deal ever came along that was right i'd probably do it you know but they what the but they're doing the way they're going they don't know i don't think they understand here's what i would tell any young artist period is the power of no you would not believe this i said no to i mean i've said no to everything mm-hmm play this big fest big festival play this you could open up for this big r's you do all this but you gotta do this well you right i think about these people like these musicians who just like
Starting point is 00:26:47 Right. I think about these people, these musicians who just get fucked up the ass so hard by these record labels just to get famous. If you're a young musician, go Google Bun B interview. Bun B is one of the guys from Underground Kings, and he goes through everything. He's a fucking expert. I want to meet him one of these days. I think he's Houston-based, maybe. I don't think we're playing Houston, but you just got to know. You got to be smart. Someone was asking him about how the major labels fuck you. He goes, well, don't sign with a major label be and i had major label offers for my first record really and i knew
Starting point is 00:27:11 and i knew i did not want to do the things they were going to ask me to do and i knew i would if the album was successful i'd kick my fucking own ass if i didn't um do it yourself oh did i didn't own my i want to own my masters i want to own all my i don't want a boss people here's the thing here's what i don't understand about young musicians especially you get why do you get into music because you don't want to work right right so why are you gonna so the first thing they do is they offer a record company offers you a deal and these they fucking sign it so you spend your whole life not wanting to have a boss not go to work and then they and then a big corporation comes up to you and you fucking sign the contract you just signed up for a boss right that's what you thought you were playing
Starting point is 00:28:02 music so you wouldn't have to work right no now you got a boss who tells you what to do you know what i got because i own my shit and i do all my own shit um we got these offers for um i'll give i don't know an example we're put to play colorado in two weeks oh man that's my that's my wedding anniversary or or that's my that's a buddy of mine's having a bachelor party on a major label you can't say no they tell you what to do i do whatever the i want you i'm not playing the gigs rescheduling yeah these guys on a major label you got a boss i don't want a boss i do this so i don't have a boss if you sign with a major label you're a little with a boss right what about you know or like you know like man i fuck the man fuck the man warner brothers records deal sign shut the fuck up you love the man you're
Starting point is 00:28:52 with warner brother records you fucking suck the man's dick warner brothers records is time warner that's cnn that's time magazine shut the fuck up stop telling me you're fucking punk rock that you fuck the man you're on warner brothers records right shut the up do you feel the same way about the walk do you think do you feel the same way about promoting your music on social media where these people are where these these sites are owned by these big ass companies too uh i do um that's That's why I kind of moved it over. I have a new deal, which is I think social media is the devil's work. I think it's evil. And so I personally am not on it. picture and I'll write a post and I'll text it to my manager post this or I'll make a video and I'll send it to my manager he does all the posting I don't have my passwords I know I know that might piss some people off that might say my social media is inauthentic it does come from me but
Starting point is 00:29:57 you know and it's also weird for an artist to tell his fans to get off social media but i do think it is yeah it's an evil thing and i think if you and it's like and it's also you know a bite in the hand that feeds for a guy who's for reasons unknown has gotten pretty big off like tick tock right which i my first i had a song get big on tick tock before i knew what tick tock was you know what song was that drop them out got really big on tiktok a couple years ago and they're like they got i got a call from one of my one of my people saying uh you know you're dropping out's blowing up on tiktok my response was what's tiktok i didn't know and now that i know i wish i didn't know because it's just fucking stupid but you know it helps pay the bills so yes people have to show us i guess i mean it's it is it a necessary evil is it am i being um
Starting point is 00:30:53 a uh uh you know i'm it's a little early for me it's only noon here so i'm losing the forgetting the word being a hypocrite by saying fuck the major labels but social media is good or does some good yes i am and i know it yeah but i personally don't fuck with social media yeah because it kind of feels like the same concept where it's like uh they're just force feeding you happiness when maybe some days we don't feel like we need to be fucking happy maybe someday but here's but here's where i will give someone credit it by i'll go back to what is the thing i hate the most i hate having a boss so if you can build your own audience own your own masters be your own boss and get the word out there through your social media account
Starting point is 00:31:43 then i think that's probably if you're a young kid doing that i think that's probably cool you know i mean i'm seeing some of this shit you know most first of all most of those big social media accounts are just are fake numbers anyway same thing that the way spotify algorithms feed shit bullshit down your throat the same kind of thing you know do that many people really those people had that many followers no they're mostly bought and paid for so right yeah like it's so up like nothing is real anymore just like what does sturgill simpson teach you what did like sturgill teach you about songwriting and authenticity
Starting point is 00:32:21 and authenticity? He didn't teach me a lot personally. He taught me a lot by doing. I mean, I would do interviews and he would, I would just see a text like, "'Don't talk to that guy again." You know? Yeah. Like he's, go back and read some of his articles
Starting point is 00:32:39 and see how he's sucks corporate dick. I mean, those aren't exact words, but basically what he's saying or he would just say you know and and also i would say too just again it's not it wasn't personally from him but like i heard stories about shit he would turn down you know sponsorships and shit he would turn down you know i'm dying for like budweiser to sponsor my tour. Just because no one sells more Budweiser than me. Yeah, I heard you're the record. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:33:10 But I don't do it. I haven't gotten the offer yet, but I heard how many times he's turned that shit down. It's fucking insane. I mean, what about Paul Cawthon? You know him? I do know him. He just texted me. Yes. Actually, I won't read it. That's one of my close buddies. Oh, cool. Yeah He just texted me. Yes. Actually, I won't read it.
Starting point is 00:33:25 That's one of my close buddies. Oh, cool. Yeah. He texted me. He sometimes texts me sometimes. Yeah. But I think he'd be embarrassed if I read him. No, no. Paul's brilliant. I think he's, when you think of authenticity, I think he's another guy who is pretty authentic.
Starting point is 00:33:49 Yeah, I haven't seen him in a while. I haven't talked to him in a bit, but like I said, every once in a while, I'll just get some dirty words pop up on my phone and I'll see it. And I'll know it's him pitching me a song time. Do you just walk around Nashville and just look at people and just be angry? Like, this is my city now? I think that's putting it mildly i was just talking to my wife about it who by the way is downstairs with covid i don't know how she got it and i didn't i just she just got a positive i just that's her second time and we both got together sorry i'm off topic we both got together nine months ago both got
Starting point is 00:34:25 covid and then we just go on to they're like how you go out on tour without getting covid well we did and now i'm feeling kind of shitty i guess it's coming maybe it's maybe it's about to hit me we'll find out but she just i just got that text from her downstairs sorry if i'm coughing um but yes me and my wife talk about all the time, like, where the fuck do like, I want you and I want why I said I would take that fucking Budweiser sponsorship. I need a fucking island. I need to buy my own fucking island because I can't because we both go fuck this new Nashville. We fucking hate this place. But where are we going to go?
Starting point is 00:35:04 Right. We don't like... Everywhere you go is fucking dipshit New Yorkers with their stupid sparkly cowboy hats on, just walking around with a beer in their hand looking for a fucking Uber. These fucking... Fuck every tourist, every asshole from LA and New York who's moved here.
Starting point is 00:35:24 I'm going to find you and kick all your fucking asses. Yeah, it's so true. I mean, it's just turning into LA. It's like this whole town is like a fucking, it's like a redneck costume party. It's fucking sick. It makes me want to fucking barf. And I see why it's funny. I'm sick it makes me want to bars and i see while it's funny i'm seeing it more and more like every every day i'll reach out to a buddy of mine you know uh
Starting point is 00:35:50 a country musician i don't like to name country musicians names because just me mentioning their name to get them canceled just saying their name but every day i'll be like hey man what you been up to you want to you know grab drink? They're like, oh no, I moved to Florida. Or I moved to Georgia. Fuck Nashville. I'm like, how'd you just fucking... I think everyone saw COVID. Majority of the world saw COVID as a
Starting point is 00:36:15 way to move to Nashville. The Nashvilleians saw COVID as a way to get out. What about... I don't know that I could handle it much longer. I know. So if you could pick an island in any part of the world, where would it be?
Starting point is 00:36:33 Someplace with nice weather and water. Yeah. I don't know. But you said you're from LA and you live in Denver? I'm from LA. I love... The only thing I like about LA
Starting point is 00:36:44 is the Lakers. And I'm a diehard Laker fan. I tried to you know, the only thing I like about LA is the Lakers. And I'm a diehard Laker fan. I go to, I tried to go to a bunch of the games. But like now, I see this in, your concept with that is the same concept I see in sports now. With all these, these fucking prima donna athletes who don't work anymore. And they're getting paid crazy amount of money and they don't even try anymore. It's bullshit. Yeah, and I felt that too when I started seeing college it was bumming me out because I'm gonna see obviously I'm a big University of Kentucky fans I felt like why am I watching these
Starting point is 00:37:15 like a an 18 year old kid just waiting for his multi-million dollar check right waiting out his one and done year at Kentucky it became kind of boring to watch just like and I again I don't not get it you tell me that um to play basketball for a year and I'll make 50 million dollars if I don't get injured you're not going to see me at my best right um and bums me out about Anthony Davis because right i saw him play in person and i'm just like man this guy's gonna be killer and he can't seem to stay healthy yeah i think it's also these you know it's like he was a point guard when he was in like you know he was raised a point guard then he grew to seven feet and you know you can't be well that's that's what i said that's what i
Starting point is 00:38:02 said when i saw him i was like that's a that's like if hakeem elijah one could be a point guard i've never seen a player like this but i think he's so laggy that maybe that that hurts him staying healthy but like shouldn't there be some kind of rule like if i don't play a concert i gotta cancel and i gotta give them the money back right it's like how do you get those giant checks if you're injured? I get it that it's not your fault if you're injured, but yeah, are you watching the finals? I am. I'm going to game three tomorrow.
Starting point is 00:38:36 I'm wearing a... Where? In Boston. I'm wearing a... From Denver to us? Yeah, I'm flying out. I'm wearing a Lakers Jason Tatum jersey. How'd you get tickets, man? Am I talking to a Lakers. From Denver to us. Yeah, I'm flying out. I'm wearing a Lakers Jason Tatum jersey. How'd you get tickets, man?
Starting point is 00:38:45 Am I talking to a high roller? I'm in the jam scene, so no one knows who the fuck I am. But I sneak into these games. Okay, cool. Yeah. I was kind of hoping. I was rooting for the... First of all, for all the shit I say, I would love a team in Nashville.
Starting point is 00:39:02 They're not going to have one because they got one in Memphis. They ain't going to have two Tennessee teams. But I would have loved... I thought Memphis was pretty good. I was hoping they'd get there. And then after they lost, I really liked Jimmy Butler. I was hoping Miami would make it. So I don't really have any skin in the game now.
Starting point is 00:39:20 It seems like you like the guys with grit who fucking work hard. What's your take on work ethic in 2022 i've never seen anything like i've never seen so many i finally got a band of people you'd be surprised because i always thought like i treat my band well that they you know i've always gotten them you know what i thought was good shit and treated them as well as any band member had. And I got this, all these, every artist in town was warning me, these musicians are pre-Madonnas. I finally got a band now of people who actually said they appreciate the gig. I'd never heard that before.
Starting point is 00:39:59 Right. Like everyone before was just like, you should be so lucky you have me. No, motherfucker. Look at the fucking marquee wheeler walker jr i don't see your name on there why don't we do a survey and see how many people are here for the fucking guitar player you should be black get glad you got five dollars what what is that but that's that nashville shit bro that's that la shit that's that new york like i feel like i just it's like this entitlement.
Starting point is 00:40:25 Just because I'm a good musician in the city. What's weird is it, dude, I've had this talk a million times. Where does this fucking entitlement come from? I don't know. I mean, most of the people I take out on these gigs, they, like I said, it ain't the fucking Staples Center, but 2,000 people. I saw you last night play for 10 people. Yeah. Where is this entitlement coming from?
Starting point is 00:40:49 Right. Were you secretly in Guns N' Roses and didn't tell me? Yeah. Well, it's also like these music school kids who have these teachers kiss their fucking ass without them even doing it. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. Now you're getting me started so there's this college here called belmont yeah which is like a religious a religious music school and they're i think part of the corporatization of nashville is the fault of
Starting point is 00:41:15 belmont which is and not even so belmont is the belmont attitude which is belmont is a very expensive school you can basically nowadays you can pay your way into country music. You know, if you if you if you're if mommy and daddy have the money to send you to Belmont, Belmont will introduce you to the big wigs of country music. Right. Which means. Which means what I just said, which means you can mommy and daddy can pay your way into country music half the people you hear on the radio are people that mommy and daddy paid for yeah and i saw that with with the new country hall of fame too where they have these the new artists it looked like they all paid to get into the country hall of fame a little bit did you ever see this they probably did yeah
Starting point is 00:42:00 yeah it's insane but continue continue no but i i mean i don't really have anything else to say but what i just said which is that it's just it's this new there's a lot of entitlement in all i feel like in just everybody's work ethic in general i mean like when i was a kid didn't i mean i don't know i don't want to compare ages but we seem around the same age that we're not kids right when i was a kid it was like you knew you were gonna be in a van for 20 years before you ever got even uh out of debt totally but now these people these all these these kids i meet nowadays they just they want to be famous and rich immediately do you do you want shortcuts do you believe the add culture i do and i also blame social media they're just swiping and seeing these jets and these you know and private planes and those decked out tour buses they think they're owed that and they
Starting point is 00:42:57 what they the problem is no one really posts um sprinter vans and sleeping in the hostel or sleeping in a motel six it's just everyone wants to pretend they're someone they're not on social media but so no one gets to see the dirty work you know yeah well it's like the same thing as everyone's not promoting their sadness they're only promoting their happiness when that yeah i mean like i just i played a theater in um in uh kansas city this past weekend uh really cool theater uptown or uptown theater that's a great theater and um yeah killer theater and there was like i met a guy there he said he saw metallica there 20 years ago like it takes 20 years to go from the uptown theater to where metallica is right now nobody but i mean that generation they'll wait their 20 years right i feel like these kids are gonna get pissed if they don't go from the uptown theater to nissan stadium
Starting point is 00:43:56 in a fucking week right have you always been patient you know your whole life um it depends on what i'm patient in my work i'm not patient with i just don't have time for the people kind of people we're talking about i don't have patience for idiots and right especially as they get older you know people tell me you know we got this we want you to do this run in texas but you're not going to get paid much. Fuck you. I don't want to go to Texas for fucking 80 bucks. Right. It's fucking like you've been to Houston in the summer. It's the worst. No, it doesn't.
Starting point is 00:44:33 Yeah. I'm not going to Texas. I'm not going to Houston in August. Shut the fuck up. Right. Well, I know the money's not great, but you'll get exposure. I don't want fucking exposure in Houston. Right.
Starting point is 00:44:42 I want to set a fucking home. Yeah. There's a lot of good movies on my TV. As you get older, you know, you talk about this 20 year work ethic thing in the beginning years of Wheeler Walker Jr. Like, would you take all those bullshit exposure gigs or have you always put your foot down about this philosophy? No, it's, it's a new, it's a newer thing because what you're ever, I get, that's why I guess I get, I have a little bit of sympathy. I get being young and dumb and taking any gig you can get right but that's work ethic i just felt at that age i had to work you know so when it just takes a lot it takes a lot of work i mean you know when i do it i do it my albums are all been 11 songs i'll write 150 songs to get the
Starting point is 00:45:28 best 11 songs what so well but my out but my albums are good yeah you know yeah but like the dudes who write 11 songs to get 11 songs i don't want to hear the record you know yeah actually i do hear the records and no shit you know when you're writing 150 songs for a record how do you pick the best 11 what's your philosophy well that's mainly it's it's cob and i dave cobb and i kind of choosing the best ones and kind of they've also got they've got a flow together too and you know they got my thing too is he's if i'm going to pay dave dave cobb who is expensive is the best producer country music producer out there i don't want to pay him and not listen to him it'd be stupid that's where you just go i'll just and i don't think he'd be pissed if i produced it myself but um if i uh
Starting point is 00:46:21 if i'm if i'm paying him someone at that level to produce my album i'm paying him i better listen to his opinion if that makes sense totally like i don't if he says i want to record this song if even if it's not my favorite song it means he's got a vision for it and i want to hear his vision right you know he's got he thinks he can do something good with it yeah and what has he taught you about songwriting and producing throughout the records you've done with him i think he's just kind of taught me back to what we were talking about authenticity talk to me and taught me about of more it's just it's not about getting it perfect it's just a vibe we i don't know people don't really know this but we record live the
Starting point is 00:47:06 albums you're hearing are just like i i'm a huge bob dylan fan and um i like his bootleg stuff and you'll just what he does on his a lot of his bootleg stuff he'll just like um highway 61 he'll he'll the bootlegs got like the 50 outtakes, but there was something about the take he chose that just had the right feel and the right vibe. So all kind of cop taught me, which isn't that complicated, but I'm glad I learned it, which is a bunch of good musicians in a room playing a great song. Just keep playing it. Not all day. You're sick of it, but do a bunch of takes pick the best one. That's all it is.
Starting point is 00:47:44 It's just, it ain't rocket science. egg you're getting sick of it but do do a bunch of takes pick the best one that's all it is it's just it ain't rocket science and nowadays when people are just building it on a fucking on uh what's the program pro tools on pro tools it's just like we're just listening to computer sounds i don't like that i want to hear people in a room playing when the guitarist it's a cool note and the bassist goes like damn and plays a little harder i want to hear on the record and the best example i'll give do you mind if i give you an example of course i didn't mean to interrupt you no so one of my i think my biggest stream song my most stream song is probably fuck you bitch yeah and um we recorded fuck you bitch
Starting point is 00:48:21 i was listening to and um I was playing acoustic and singing. And we were listening to playback. And he put the wrong microphone up where his engineer had. So the acoustic was bleeding into the vocal mic. And I asked, I said, can you turn the acoustic guitar down? And he goes, no, we can't. Because the acoustic's in the vocal line i go shit my my immediate thought was shit we got to record it again and cobb goes no that's the best the great that's a killer take
Starting point is 00:48:53 don't record it again because he just had the feel no one's no one listens to a song goes man the acoustics up too loud right just he said just roll with it it's good right i mean any other producer in the world and myself included at that time, would have just said, let's re-record it. But he knew that was the take, and he was right. And people don't come up to me at shows and go, man, fuck you, bitch, the acoustic's too loud. They care about the feel and the vibe of the song.
Starting point is 00:49:19 So why do we get in our heads when we're in the studio? Because we're costing a lot. What I'm asking is, why do we get in our heads and overthink when we're in the studio, but we're not overthinking when we're writing the songs? Well, I think that's what a good... Nowadays, what a good producer does, especially, that's another thing I'll give Cobb credit for, is he's good at making you relaxed
Starting point is 00:49:42 and making it just feel like you're hanging out with your friends sitting around um and just playing he and he's kind of the it's it's almost therapy more than producing kind of honestly I mean obviously anyone's going to get freak out if all you're thinking about is money but you got that's kind of down to you and your therapist talking if you're if all you're thinking about in the studio is how much you're spending, you're never going to win that one. Do you go to therapy? I do not, but I need to. Why do you think you need to? Look at me.
Starting point is 00:50:14 Have you heard my songs? I'll clap to that. Let's go. What are the things you don't like about Dave Cobb's productions? I don't think there's anything. I mean, I guess the only, it's like any producer, like, it's just taste. I mean, Rick Rubin's a producer I love.
Starting point is 00:50:37 I love his stuff with Tom Petty. I love his stuff with Ron DMC. He's certainly done albums I don't love. There's nothing about his cause production i don't like i just but i wouldn't say it's not up to the producer there's no producer just like i love i don't love albums because the producer sometimes the producer will go will make me want to listen to an album i may not otherwise you know like if like if cobb was producing florida georgia line i might listen to it like why the fuck did he do this maybe he had a reason but he probably i in that instance the reason would probably be a new house but
Starting point is 00:51:18 although he hasn't done that like i said but there's nothing I don't like about his producing. So what would you do if, say, a Florida Georgia line or Blake Shelton said, Hey, Wheeler, I would like you to open for a tour. Would you take it? Fuck no. Why not? Because the money I would make from that tour would cost me every single fan that I had. Yeah, that's true.
Starting point is 00:51:48 That's actually true. And why would I ever even consider that? Yeah, that's true, actually. What about your brother? What does he think of this? I don't really talk to him about it. No? You don't want to talk about it
Starting point is 00:52:05 no I don't yeah I don't I try to keep this I keep my family out of it you know that's good though I don't want I don't want to drag them down with me well and they got their they're got their own yeah I feel that how hard is it not to keep uh your family out of this world keep uh your family out of this world it's really not that hard i mean i see so many other people on social media showing off their whole fucking family i just don't really get it you know yeah like i'm sure your cousin's cool but i don't give a fuck about your fucking cousin you know yeah like unless he's like unless it's like acdc where your brother's in the band i don't give a you know i don't listen to i'm trying to think of a band i love i don't listen to um
Starting point is 00:52:57 nirvana because i love their family members i like the band you know yeah what would be a dream tour for wheeler walker jr huh i like the band you know yeah what would be a dream tour for wheeler walker jr god damn that's a pretty good question because we always go um you know my people always go well who would you open because after we get after i've turned down the 50th uh tour opportunity i've had they go who would you open up for? And the last answer I've given them that I think they laughed me out of the room was, I said I'd
Starting point is 00:53:32 open up for Guns N' Roses. That would be sick, actually. Why'd they laugh you out of the room? That sounds like a nice one. I think they just thought it wouldn't happen, and they're probably not wrong. But that's an example of an artist i would open for what about dead or what about dead or alive who would what would be your dream
Starting point is 00:53:53 tour to open for dead or alive that opens it up to a whole lot um i mean any of the old school guys probably the early i guess guess Elvis would have to be number one. Again, I don't think the Colonel would like that for his image. But I mean, again, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, James Brown. I'd fuck it up for Michael Jackson. Yeah. I'd keep my kids away, but I'd fuck it up for Michael Jackson. Yeah. I keep my kids away, but I'm talking about for Michael Jackson. What do you like about Chuck Berry?
Starting point is 00:54:29 And what do you see in them that you love their art form? There's an excitement to it. It's like probably what, again, I'm just trying to think of an example that the kids would understand like the the day steve jobs and figured out the iphone or something you know it's like they're figuring they're inventing something you know and you hear it in their music and like he was the first guy to do it so it's like chuck berry wrote all the great rock and roll songs little richard too same thing you just hear the excitement of just like, we're on to something new. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:55:07 Yeah. So with that philosophy, what's your take on these Nashville songwriter rooms where there's like four guys in the songwriting room every two hours putting out cookie cutter songs? Well, again, it's just the corporatization of nashville it's just if you i would i would i think what they're doing is i think that's a way to create music because that's just turning it into i mean are you really going to get emotional and like a really raw song from four dipshit dudes from Belmont sitting in a room together down on Music Row drinking fucking iced lattes and shit yeah you know so it's half their fault also half the fault of the dipshit audience that listens to that shit yeah it's you know but like
Starting point is 00:56:00 my opinion of it is is that it's stupid. Sit in a room with your guitar, you got something to say, figure out how to write it. Do you work with songwriters? I have before, but it's only if someone will reach out to my people or to me directly like, hey, man, I want to write with you. If it's someone I dig their songs, I'd be like, oh, I'd like to take a piece of that. Sure.
Starting point is 00:56:29 I'm not against songwriting collaborations, but my favorite songs are probably co-writes, Lyndon McCartney, all the old stuff. But at the end of the day, my favorite songs are probably songs that are just written by one person. It's unfiltered, you know? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:56:52 And it's not a bounce back. It's like the true emotion. It's authenticity. Yeah. And you don't get, and you don't get someone question, you know, like,
Starting point is 00:57:02 sorry, my COVID's coming in. Yeah. you don't get a line at the top of your head. You don't have someone going second guessing. I don't, I've got enough problems as it is. I don't need some dipshit on Music Row telling me, rethink that line, you know? Yeah. What's your take on finding a good manager for musicians? Because you feel like, you told me about like working for somebody. Do you feel like you told me about like working for somebody you feel like a manager is someone that works for you or do you work for them
Starting point is 00:57:29 no they 100 work for me and and i remind them that every fucking day i mean i think that's kind of the point is you find someone who works for you get this done get that done there's a lot of i don't think people know this but going going to Kansas city and playing the uptown theater, you can't just get on off a plane and just play the show. I hate to say it, but there's a lot of shit and sell t-shirts, do all that shit, a lot of shit that goes into it. So find a guy, just someone you get along with who can just work ethic back to what you said just you know once the bus is asked to help you grow and
Starting point is 00:58:09 i don't think you need to say to him at the meeting like just don't just remember you work for me that's not something i remind him of every day but it's something that's pretty well established yeah but like there's a reason go ahead i feel like a lot of new bands, they sign to these big management companies or these big booking agencies, and they lose their voice. They become soft. Yeah, I think I would strongly encourage someone not to sign with a big-time manager or agency
Starting point is 00:58:42 just because you're gonna get lost you know right why if you have the same manager as garth brooks ain't nobody picking up your phone calls you know you know they what do they make ten percent yeah like you'll never in the if you work if i work from now to the rest of my life i'm never going to make what an agent makes on one Garth Brooks show. Yeah. So why would he pick up my call? And why would, and then in that case,
Starting point is 00:59:09 it's my fault for signing with them, you know? Yeah. What's your take on cancel culture? Well, it depends on who you're talking. I think in general, it's stupid,
Starting point is 00:59:22 but also like Bill Cosby should be canceled. Right. Harvey Weinstein should be canceled. I think there's some on the edge. I think it's just dangerous to even like... My personal thing is I'm dying to be canceled. Yeah? You know, we sell canceled Wheeler shirts at the show.
Starting point is 00:59:39 Really? Yeah, and I'm encouraging it. I think it's good for business. Yeah. But I don't think that like um I think people again I think
Starting point is 00:59:52 this whole don't you feel like society's just in a fucking mess right now yeah everyone's just a fucking idiot is it confused I feel like people people are so like I don't like the idea that you can't make mistakes or you can't apologize and understand your mistakes. I just don't understand that.
Starting point is 01:00:10 People make mistakes every fucking day. Yeah. I've never, you know, like, if you make a mistake, you should have a chance to apologize. And I get those extremes. Bill Cosby, an apology ain't going to fucking do it. I get that. Yeah. cosby an apology ain't gonna fucking do it i get that yeah but then again canceling bill cosby why doesn't every fucking person who worked for him for the last 50 years why aren't they all
Starting point is 01:00:33 canceled too yeah all those executives who helped you can't do what he did by himself right so every fucking person at every agency at every studio exec every fucking person at every agency, at every studio exec, every fucking person who worked on that fucking show, who watched him go backstage and take these young women with him, they should all be canceled too. Take them all down. It shouldn't be just the guy. They're just as guilty and they're all probably still working and making big checks. Yeah. Yeah, so it's more of like, well, it goes back to fucking social media where everyone can't apologize because everyone has to live this fucking fake ass life and it's fucking bullshit, Wheeler. And I'm with you, man. I don't think it's cool. I mean, I wasn't sure if I was going to do this podcast, but I dig you. Can I say that? Yeah.
Starting point is 01:01:21 I like where you're coming from. I appreciate it, man. I like your vibe. I dig you. Can I say that? I like where you're coming from. I appreciate it, man. I like your vibe. It means a lot.
Starting point is 01:01:30 I worry about this too because I have songs like Blame It On The Pussy I've had. I go on stage and get naked on stage. I do wild shit. And everyone's like... You get naked on stage? Yeah, sometimes. You must be proud of your dick. No, I'm small. I'm Jewish, bro. I got'm just i'm just confident with myself you know i'm not i don't
Starting point is 01:01:49 care i don't i'm not worried about these trolls trying to get after me well i did try to yell at a troll yesterday what's your take on trolls actually do you yell back at these trolls you just tell them the off no well in in person or so that's the reason that's kind of the reason i got on social media off social media personally was like it's just a num way i look at it's just a numbers game right right like when i was getting i don't know i was getting 100 streams a week the first when i when i first started I'm just starting out random number. Now that I'm getting millions of streams a week, the numbers of trolls just go up.
Starting point is 01:02:30 If you're not, if you're, you can't be successful without trolls. It's just part of it. Yeah. So I just, I just try to, what they want is you to respond.
Starting point is 01:02:40 And I don't feel like someone says I suck. Good. Stay in your basement and suck your mom's pussy. I don't give a fuck someone says I suck good stay in your basement and suck your mom's pussy I don't give a fuck but like but if you're in your basement making fun of me I just don't I don't give a fuck you know well there's
Starting point is 01:02:56 a million people who dig it so every million new fans you're gonna get you're probably gonna get a thousand haters so you gotta you gotta if you want fans you gotta embrace the hate too yeah how long did it take you to embrace the hate um it never really bothered me like i always make a joke which is not really a joke that my like my audience like on amazon or itunes my review is uh my average they give you the average
Starting point is 01:03:28 review what the customers think about your album right it's always exactly three because there's always exactly enough five star reviews and they don't let you do zero the lowest they can do is one which averages out so hold on let me do the math for a second a five out of five and a one out of five that's six out of ten right so that's a three right so my the fan reviews of my album on average are three because every person who says they love it there's a person who says they hate it because the haters are always loud a hater is going to write a shitty review faster than because who by the way what kind of dipshit goes on itunes and reviews it out oh yeah it's like it's well it's the it's the same as the yelp reviewers some yeah i remember i remember we were in a a small town recently
Starting point is 01:04:22 i don't want to name the name because it was kind of a shithole, but we were like, what's the best reviewed restaurant in this town? We look it up. It said fucking Panera. And we're like, so I guess we got to go check out this fucking grand restaurant that everyone's talking about. Right. Is that the problem with America is like we have no taste anymore? We're just bland.
Starting point is 01:04:45 Well, I think part of it too is like with the Twitter thing, it was like, you know, wouldn't this be nice if everyone had an equal voice? No, it wouldn't because there's too many fucking idiots. You're right. You're fucking right. How do we get so dumb? I'm a fucking genius there shouldn't i shouldn't have an equal voice the same the same voice as a fucking idiot right like the guy who throws a plastic cup in my guitar
Starting point is 01:05:15 player at a show he shouldn't have a voice right have you ever had any shit like that where one guy just was oh was was angry at what you said or maybe you talked to him on stage and then he tried to fight you on stage yeah i used to well i used to try i used to get real pissed on stage and now i just kind of i just keep playing i just i don't want to let him ruin you know these fans and especially with the economy nowadays these fans pay i keep my ticket prices low but still 30 bucks a lot of money to a lot of these people, especially to buy a t-shirt, getting a babysitter and shit. I don't want one dipshit to ruin their night.
Starting point is 01:05:50 So I used to get pissed, but that was my emotion would take control. Now I just be like, I'm not letting your, what you're going through. And the fact that your wife let, left you and that you can't get it up, ruin the show for everybody else.
Starting point is 01:06:04 You know, that's not my fault. What was the worst can't get it up ruin the show for everybody else you know it's not my fault what was the worst i get it i played a festival with uh sturgill and tyler childers years ago where i got hit in the chest with a full can of beer and i fucking lost it man what'd you do i wouldn't even oh i i went on social media after the show and threatened to sue the fucking festival. Whole fucking, I went crazy. Oh my God.
Starting point is 01:06:31 Did you find that guy? Did you find you through it? Or just, it was just, you were in the moment. Um, I didn't find, I mean,
Starting point is 01:06:38 I've done that before. We're like, I'm not playing. I just, that's again, what I'm trying to, I'm trying to focus on the fans, not the haters,
Starting point is 01:06:44 but I did do that shit before. We're, I'm not playing another note till we find the guy right and then kick him out but then it just i stopped doing it i'm just like there's 99 of the people in here didn't do shit why am i punishing them for this dipshit because i don't want to be if i'm at a guns and roses concert and dipshit throw something at axel and he stops playing sweet child of mine i'm going to be pissed right so i don't try to punish the audience for there's a i mean there's like every audience i mean there's dipshits in every crowd coldplay's guys make dipshits as i do you know yeah true what do you think everyone to go see cole play is a you know a genius no what about what about um titties you see a lot of titties on show
Starting point is 01:07:34 um not as much as i used to i'm starting to see i feel like as the crowds get bigger it becomes more professional right and it's a not if it's a nice big theater it becomes a little weirder as opposed to like a dingy little club so i would say i'm seeing less yeah but well and it probably bother as the crowds grow you know and i'm seeing more and again it was i didn't do it on purpose, but as my shit gets bigger on TikTok and more younger-ish people are coming out, I don't want to... I saw a kid the other night at a show.
Starting point is 01:08:11 His mom brought him. I appreciate it, but he's fucking 12. I don't want to... I hope he doesn't... I don't want him whipping out his dick or something. It's true, man. You got a couple more minutes for me? Can I ask you a couple more things sure um yeah tell me about uh what made you go on a hiatus after the previous record
Starting point is 01:08:31 um i had i just was burnt out i had enough of it. I mean, I was sick of... This is what we were going back to work ethic. And my thing with people is if... And I've gone to concerts where I've... And you've gone to concerts too, where you've seen the guy and they just look... Tired. They look defeated and tired. And I'm like, why'd you charge me for the ticket if you didn't feel like giving it your all? And I just was kind of tired. And I was like,
Starting point is 01:09:09 I don't want to charge fans to see a show that I don't want to be at. Right. I'm only playing shows if I want to be there. Right. And the shows this run have been, and then I kind of just reevaluate the whole situation. Like, you know, less shows per year,
Starting point is 01:09:21 better shows, bigger shows, nicer bus, keep the band comfortable keep me comfortable keep my wife comfortable let's make this if we're in a good place we can put on a good show and i i respect my fans too much to you know to save some money go get in a van and be tired of shit just to get a paycheck right i want to put on the best show i can fucking play and i just didn't feel like i could do it and and i've seen those things i've seen so many artists go you know that one tour man i just didn't feel like doing it but you know
Starting point is 01:09:56 the money was too good so i did it i just don't want to be that guy right i think it hurts you more in the long run and i was just like i'm out. The best thing I can do is just take a break. I'll know what I want to do it again. Yeah. And, um, there was also some personal shit that I'm not going to get into, but I,
Starting point is 01:10:13 you know, it's got some people and it was, it was some, I had some tough times and yeah, I didn't, I didn't feel like the roads and shows are supposed to be fun i wasn't in a fun place did you feel like and i was like sorry and i knew i knew i knew when i'd be ready and i was like i called up dave and said i forget when it was must have been like a year ago so let's
Starting point is 01:10:40 let's make an album say okay dave will just say yes i love that about dave i've had a lot of people do records with dave and if he loves you he loves you man pretty awesome it's a lot of those yeah i mean we're we're for we're friends before we are producer musician what what gave you like the power to finally say no and take a hiatus? What was that moment? What was the show where you felt like, I'm looking at this crowd right now
Starting point is 01:11:14 and I do not give a fuck right now? You remember that show? Well, I do remember it. And I think it was... My brain says Milwaukee, but I don't know if that's true it was a milwaukee you know somewhere in the midwest where i looked out i wasn't having fun they weren't having fun and i felt like a fucking traitor i felt like because when you're there and you're not having fun if they're not having fun you just kind of feel like a thief like you're taking their money you're selling them t-shirts you're selling them beer or the
Starting point is 01:11:49 venue selling them beer just like i'm not giving it my all i want to go home right and i don't want to go to a concert where the guy on stage wants to i get that the bus sleeping on a bus is not as nice sleeping in your house but i don't want to see a guy on stage who don't want to be there. And I made a decision that if I don't want to be there, I'm not going to play the show. Was this during when we're talking about the ungratefulness of your old band? Was that part of the band? No, I don't want to put blame on other people.
Starting point is 01:12:22 It was purely me. I was just tired. I wasn't doing your level of touring other people. It was purely me. I was just tired. I was playing. I wasn't doing your level of touring, but I was doing too many shows. Yeah, that's crazy. Now we got it. We got now to where we can do 30-ish a year and pay the bills. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:12:36 I'd rather do 30 great shows than, no offense to you, but like 250. Yeah. I'm tired shows. Yeah. And especially the quarantine helped me train my brain to say, to you but like 250 yeah uh i'm tired shows yeah and that's what i've i've definitely and especially the quarantine helped me train my brain to say hey there's another life outside of this van yeah you know what's funny is i heard and i don't know these people but apparently a lot of these musicians in nashville like um i'm hearing more and more stories about i'll get like so and i don't know their
Starting point is 01:13:07 names but so-and-so guitar player took up coding and now he's like a computer coder and he's making twice what he did when he's a guitar player like why did it take you quarantine to covid to figure that out dude you should have fucking like you know what did you need you should have done that before if you if you like computers more than guitar there's nothing wrong with that just do it maybe he thought it wasn't cool or something no it's it goes back to what you said it's like it's the art of saying no they never said no and like tested their dreams like they're probably force fed music when they're six years old and they had to go to fucking college for music and never really liked it and now they're stuck in their 20s or 30s and they're like fuck I'll never like a lot I think a lot of people were like that
Starting point is 01:13:54 during Tova they were just like dude I'm 38 it ain't happen you know yeah there's there's mood there's most rock stars and musicians we knew had a career and were dead by 27. Right. If you're 53, you ain't gonna, you know, right.
Starting point is 01:14:15 You ain't gonna have a, a, you know, a, a breakout debut album at 71. Yeah. You know, did you feel you're going to ever live this long?
Starting point is 01:14:26 Yeah. I take pretty good care of myself like i kind of cut back on the crazy partying recently i don't know about you yeah i have to you know you got that kind of party look to you yeah yeah i stopped doing the coke and having the one night stands that helped me a lot that's cool well that was good that was a good no smart move but yeah you can't do that he's sick it's kind of old also the other thing too people don't tell you is you can't shit on a bus yeah i don't know if your audience doesn't yeah if your audience knows this but a rough night of drinking and you're you're stuck on a place where you can't take your shit that could could lead to some dirty problems yeah that is insane um now we're getting to the nitty-gritty there it is and you know it's like i feel like we're simpatico a little bit with um
Starting point is 01:15:15 how did you you playing you playing nashville at all i'll come check you out yeah man i don't even like i don't even like jam bands but i'll try i'm more of a songwriter than the jam i just got forced in the jam world world because i crowd surf and party and you know they like hold on i'm trying to so i'm trying to look andy frasco but you got like but you're solo artist yeah i got a seven piece band but um we're trying to keep rock and roll in the jam scene andy frasco in the u.n yeah that's me that's you yeah what's your best out um i think the newest one wash rinse repeat yeah wash rinse repeat um so you own your label i own my own label yeah i i'm the same thing i can't have a boss every time i have a boss i've been dropped by five record labels four four booking agencies.
Starting point is 01:16:06 Yeah, I do the same thing. I can't stand it. See, I don't get dropped, I fire them. But like, as my sales and strength, starting getting big labels would come to me, and I'm like, so what are you offering me? You're offering me what I have now, minus 70%? Yeah, exactly. Fuck these people.
Starting point is 01:16:24 Like, what, like, in you and you but you're but what you're offering me is you know how to manufacture a compact disc guess what I know how to do that too and you're nowadays especially is even worse it's like guess what I can do for you what's that I can upload your songs to Spotify yeah I have internet connection too, fucking motherfucker. What about NFTs? What's your take on NFTs? My take is if I don't understand it and it's been explained to me 300
Starting point is 01:16:54 fucking times, I have no interest. Let's fucking go. I was asking a buddy of mine the other day, because somebody was asking me about NFTs, like, do I want to get into NFTs? Because they see you guys doing good numbers on streaming. Would you be interested in NFTs. Like, do I want to get into NFTs? Cause I see a guy sell, you know, doing good numbers on streaming.
Starting point is 01:17:07 Like, would you be interested in NFTs? I asked my friend, I go, would you, he's like kind of more business out of you. Would you buy an NFT? And his answer was to me was,
Starting point is 01:17:17 I don't know. Would you buy air? And I go, I would not buy air. He goes, well, then don't buy an NFT. If I don't want to buy it, I'm not going to sell it. Right.
Starting point is 01:17:27 But again, but I'll ask you for the millionth time, what is it? I don't know either. That's why I'm done with it. I think it's like the record labels knowing that they can't sell any records anymore. So they're trying to be... It's like that guitar player trying to be a tech guy. Well, the one thing I heard that was cool was there was one band that was doing NFTs. And then if you bought the NFT, they had a special merch line that was shorter for the NFT people.
Starting point is 01:17:55 Yeah. And that they would get special release access, get songs that the people got. But to me, isn't that just a fan club? Or a Patreon? Yeah. But again, it's new versus the same yeah well i guess but i'm saying if it if you can show it on your phone it makes your life easier i think they this one some artist was doing it where like anyone who bought the nft got into any show for free that's fine but that's cool you got to sit down and do the math like the nft cost ten
Starting point is 01:18:25 thousand dollars you better be planning on going to 9 500 shows how many times are we going to sell the same fucking i don't know as much technology as we got me how how soon till uh tweets cost money you know yeah exactly or thoughts did you hear about did you hear about the new elon musk tweet no i'm not telling you i'm not no i'm saying like yeah that's what it's going to be like it's like i'm not telling you about it it's 20 bucks if you want to read it right it's like a podcast paying for subscriptions now like um what's his name oh dylan i forgot his name god but a lot of these guys are just bob dylan yeah bob dylan, Bob's got a new podcast called. I'm still talking. I heard he's got a podcast company. He's getting into podcasts.
Starting point is 01:19:12 Wheeler, thanks so much, man. I hope we get to connect. I'll be in Nashville June 13th through 16th. I don't know what you're doing, but maybe we can catch up. I'll check my schedule, man. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, man. Very nice to meet you, Wheeler. You seem like you got a good handle. You've been through enough bullshit that you kind of, that we're on the same wavelength. Yeah, I just think, you know, it's like, I'm never going to be that fucking pretty polished dude.
Starting point is 01:19:34 And I finally realized that in my life. And I feel so much freer that I'm just going to be me and fuck everyone else. You know? Yeah. Once you realize, like, again, I'll go back to the bun b got an interview where he goes someone which is a rude question how much money you make he goes how much money is it someone i said how much money you have he said enough like can you pay your like i'm i'm i'm blessed that i can pay my bills doing this this I don't need a fucking island
Starting point is 01:20:06 I made jokes about it but I don't need a mansion It's enough to live The fans are enjoying the shows I don't need to I can't compete with Adele She's got a billion People don't know that I'll bet the record company
Starting point is 01:20:23 At best breaks even on the deal for sure because the money how much the money that it cost them that it cost them to to promote that and shove that down everybody's store except hers because she lost all that weight yeah but like i don't want i didn't i can't compete with that nor do i want to what's your take on garth brooks i can't compete with that nor do i want to what's your take on garth brooks well i used to rip on him a lot but nowadays like compared to the new he honestly i gotta say he sounds like wailing to me compared to the new i'm here yeah it's true man it's crazy you ever met garth or any of those guys you ever talked to him he would never get he would never get near me
Starting point is 01:21:05 no what about the guys you're like really adamant about talking about like blake shelton or any of those dudes have they come up to you yet now occasionally i'll get like they'll reach out to like somebody on my team like tell him to knock it off and i'm like that's quite a threat yeah wheeler keep it off knock it off that's quite a threat. Yeah, fuck that. Wheeler, keep it. Knock it off. That's what my second grade teachers are. Hey, knock it off, kid.
Starting point is 01:21:32 Wheeler, thanks for being on the show, bud. Thanks for having me, man. It means a lot, man. I got one final question. When it's all said and done, and Wheeler is in the abyss of whatever happens after this, what do you want Wheeler Walker Jr. to be remembered by? There was a guy
Starting point is 01:21:52 I didn't give a fuck. I wish more people didn't give a fuck. You think we'd be happier if we didn't give a fuck? Stop caring so much. Do you think we'd be happier if we stopped giving a fuck about all the little things? Of course.
Starting point is 01:22:08 But you and I, I guarantee you, we've both been there. Which is like the fucking... They didn't get my rider right. And where's my... This isn't the beer I ordered. Who gives a fuck? Just play the fucking show.
Starting point is 01:22:23 But I've learned to not worry about that bullshit. Good. Well, keep doing New Wheeler and I'll be here reading you on, buddy. Cool, man. Thanks for having me. You tuned in to the World's Health Podcast with Andy Fresco. Thank you for listening to this episode produced by Andy Fresco,
Starting point is 01:22:40 Joe Angelo and Chris Lawrence. We need you to help us save the world and spread the word. Please subscribe, rate the show, give us those crazy stars, iTunes, Spotify, wherever you're picking this shit up. Follow us on Instagram at world saving podcast for more info and updates.
Starting point is 01:22:55 Fresco's blogs and tour dates you'll find at andyfresco.com and check our socials to see what's up next. Might be a video dance party, a showcase concert, that crazy shit show, or whatever springs to Andy's wicked brain. And after a year of keeping clean and playing
Starting point is 01:23:11 safe, the band is back on tour. We thank our brand new talent booker, Mara Davis. We thank this week's guest, our co-host, and all the fringy frenzies that help make this show great. Thank you all. And thank you for listening. Be your best, be safe, and we will be back next week.
Starting point is 01:23:29 No animals were harmed in the making of this podcast as far as we know. Any similarities, interactions, or knowledge, facts, or fake is purely coincidental.

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