Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 189: Jon Russell (The Head and the Heart)

Episode Date: September 20, 2022

On our final installment in the Sea.Hear.Now Festival Series, we have an absolute blowout... of expectations, feelings, and Shawn's knee caps. Will the band hold their own against Wet Leg? Let's check in with Frasco about popping those literal and metaphoric joints back into alignment (and send a prayer offering to Baphomet for our boy Shawn). Then, on the Interview Hour, we welcome Jon from The Head and the Heart! Jon has a plethora of both brains and heart so Frasco doesn't hold back on his probing questions. Don't miss another exciting episode of the Ding-Dong Olympics™ on EP 189... Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out Andy's new song, "Puff Break (Believe That)" on iTunes, Spotify  Blow it out with theheadandtheheart.com Produced by Andy Frasco Joe Angelhow Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Nick Gerlach Shawn Eckels Arno Bakker

Hey Andy, it's Nick Gerlach, your co-host. Good seeing you today. First time I've seen you in a few months, I think. Sitting in the back of the plane, the flight you're on, getting ready to go to Europe for this tour, and our flight's delayed because someone blew up the toilet too hard. And what I'm wondering is, is it too late for me to back out on this? I'm just kind of starting to get a bad feeling about this. A lot of stuff going wrong already. I don't know. The energy's off here. We're getting ready to head to the runway.

I think I still have a few minutes. I can scream and run off this plane if there's time. So let me know if there's still time for me to get a sub to play sax for you in the store. Okay, see you in about six hours. Times have changed, the band is strange Here we are doing cocaine Brian, we're doing low You could be right, you could be wrong King Brian we're to end low

you could be right you could be wrong the back so big in the line so long Brian we're to end low your friend gave us a record deal and a big old fat advance. We told this to invest in stocks but we did blow with our fares. We played the show, we sold it out, we met a blow. We need help. Help us. Schwartz, we're doing cocaine. Let's start the show, baby. All right, and we're back. Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast.

I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads? How's our minds? Are we staying out of trouble? Are you trying not to fuck up your legs? Jesus Christ. I'm not clapping to that. Wow.

What a time. We're in an airport hotel on our way to Belgium. We got a lot of things to talk about before we have... By the way, see here now. Shout out to all the people who showed up. New Jersey showed the fuck up. I did not expect we were competing with this young, hip band called Wet Leg. I'm like, oh, this band's huge. I don't know how many people are going to show up.

And goddamn, it was one of the biggest shows we ever had um i just want to say thank you so much for coming out um this is a see here now installation the last of them um this is this is actually the last of the festival summer we had all we did good we had a bunch of festivals we got to showcase on the podcast and then it's's coming to an end, back to a regular program. What is that saying? Regular standard program? Whatever. You know what I'm talking about.

So shout out to C here now. That was a blast. Sean blew out his knee. Me and Sean were having a little tough before the show, like brothers, misunderstanding each other. And he was going extra hard, taking that aggression out on his guitar and on the show, which that's what we do as musicians. We take it out on our music

so we don't kill each other on the road. And we apologized. I apologized on stage. We had some peace. And then everyone finally I apologized on stage. We had some peace. And then everyone finally started breathing good again. And then, right when everything was good, he was doing his rock thing. And he jumped on a subwoofer. Everything was good.

And then I was about to do my ending speech. And I was in the middle of it. And he was walking back on stage. And his knee dislocated. I literally, he fell to the ground. We knew Sean had like shitty knees. He's always had shitty knees, but I've only seen the knee pop out like once or twice in our career together, but it popped out and there was 10 plus thousand people there. And I'm doing my speech about never giving up and never keep fighting, keep fighting.

Then my brother, Sean, is on the floor. His kneecap is to the right. I'm like, oh, fuck. And this is the story of this band. He kept playing. There was medics trying to run on stage. He'd shoot them away. He's like, let's just finish the song,

and I got to shout it out to him. Sean fucking Echols. Unbelievable, buddy. You fucking did it, you know? Sorry we butt heads a lot. We're brothers on this fight, and sometimes we you know there's different things that happen

in both our heads and we overanalyze things and the only way to get through it is communication and we're going to work on that but speaking of his knee he had to pop that bitch in and normally he does it and he'll pop in but it took five times to pop

the knee back in so he kept on missing the knee and i could just see the agonizing pain while he's hitting the courts he was still hitting the court so i could do my speech and i was like you know that if that isn't fucking rock and roll i i don't know what is. So shout out to Sean Eccles one more time for giving it all he's got. We didn't even have any dialed-in gummies to fucking help with the pain. Shout out to dialed-in gummies. They're the best. To be honest, I've been on the road for fucking, I went to Europe and I was on the road before. So I haven't eaten my dialed in gummies in like three or four weeks, which I'm kind of bummed out about. And I can't bring them

to Europe cause that's illegal. So I'm going to be two weeks missing my dialed in gummy, um, fix. But, um, for everyone in Denver, um, buy some dialed inin gummies for me. They're great. Rosin-based gummies, they taste great. They feel great. I like taking a half when I'm doing my thing, or if at nighttime right before I go to bed, I'll pop a whole cube, which is, I love it. So go buy some dialed-in gummies.

Keith and the crew, they're amazing, good people, and I can't wait to get back to Denver. I think I get back to Denver October 8th. Do we get back to Denver October 8th? We have two, what? 9th. October 9th. Damn, I've been on the road for so fucking long. It's crazy.

When you're just on the road for, it starts getting to five weeks, six weeks, you forget that you have a home. You try to make the best out of it. Chicken wings in my hotel room, feeling like a fucking slob. I slept walked. I took a Xanax last night.

I'm still jet lagged. Cause I was, I was in Europe a couple of days ago, three days ago, and I'm going back today. We're going back to start a European tour. And, uh, we had to fly to Canada to play that show. By the way, shout out to Canada. Fuck yeah, Canada. That was fucking sick. Canada, I fuck with you. I, you know, I was going through a little depression I didn't know I was walking through the streets I'm like damn is Canada depressed

or am I depressed it was really weird because I loved it but everyone was kind of sad in a sense maybe I was just showing my own inner mind because I was just so tired but then we went to the show and everyone was fucking pumped up. So it definitely was. I was having a little depression spell there

for a couple of days. That's why it's important to sleep, guys. I'm going to do a little pep talk. Guys, if you guys are doing drugs every day or if you're doing speed and you can't go to bed, this is why you're becoming a crazy person because sleep is important. I finally got like three days of like eight plus hours of sleep. Now I feel fucking great. So I'm going to clap it up for sleep. Get some sleep.

You can't be partying every day. You can't be having these benders and think you're going to, you know, you're not a young buck anymore. You have to keep going. You have to get some sleep, drink some water. I've got fucking vitamins. I went to the vitamin store right before the hotel.

I got some D. I got some probiotics. I'm ready to fucking, I'm ready to fuck. Let's go. But anyways, I got some sleep and I feel better. I was like really depressed in Canada. I was just like, just got off of, you know, the cruise, which I'll talk about a little bit too. Before we do like, just got off of, you know, the cruise, which I'll talk

about a little bit too. Before we do that, um, repsy.com guys, you in a band, are you, um, needing help? Is your agent not giving you enough stuff right now? Or if you don't have an agent, do you want to get out there? Are you getting that restless leg? Sign up for Repsy.com. All it will do is help. You could be a band. You could be an independent venue trying to find bands for your independent venue. You could be a wedding planner trying to find cool bands for the wedding that you're booking. You could be a fucking juggler. You want to be a magician?

Want to get out there and fucking just start juggling balls? Well, that didn't sound, that sounded weird. You want to juggle some bananas and God damn it. Why is my, every reference I have goes to dick. You want to juggle,

juggle something. Um, and, uh, sign up for repsy.com because all it's going to do is help. This industry is so fucked up right now. It really is. And, uh, everyone's going to be stepping on each This industry is so fucked up right now. It really is. And everyone's going to be stepping on each other's toes in the fall time.

I was like looking at the schedule because we're about to start our fall tour with Little Stranger. By the way, thanks for buying tickets. I was worried for a little bit, but now I feel good. I was worried. I feel good. We're going on tour with Little Stranger in the fall. So go grab your tickets. If you're new because you're just here

to listen to John from Head in the Heart by the way Head in the Heart was fucking amazing and I had a great conversation with him but go buy your fall tickets

but back to how bad the music industry is right now people are stepping on each other's toes there's not enough money we're going in balls deep

into a recession we're going to deep into a recession. We're going to need all the help we can get. So sign up for Repji.com. All right, back to the cruise before we talk about John from Head in the Heart. That was awesome. That was the first time meeting him. I was a big fan of him.

He's gotten me through a lot of depressing times listening to his sad songs. He's got some sad-ass songs, man. Woo! Sad fucking songs. But I love a sad song. He's got some sad ass songs, man. Woo. Sad fucking songs. Um, but I love a sad song. You know, that's my shit. You all know that already. Cause I talk about it all the time. That's why I love Craigie. Um, fuck. What was I talking about? You're working. Nevermind. Bo's out here working. Bo's going to Europe for the first time. You stoked Bo? You're fucking stoked. I just got back. Yeah, we'll talk about that in two seconds.

Go do, keep working on, he's planning the Europe tour. Doesn't even speak the fucking languages, these guys' countries, but we're out here. We're bringing our American boy. He's going to be killing it. Anyway, my European,

the Virgin Voyage cruise was a fucking blast. Shout out to Virgin Voyage. Shout out for letting me bring six of my homies. It was just a blast. They gave me a little allowance. They were like, you know, it was like a free trip. All I had to do was like do some Instagram posts. I was like, damn, I really feel like a fucking influencer right now. I'm fuck. I was like, I felt like Khloe Kardashian in this bitch. Like I was like, had to go on an influencer meeting with all these different fucking weirdo influencers. One dude that had the meeting with he's faint. God, it's just amazing how you can make money. Now this guy, this one guy I met on the cruise, that's an influencer that Virgin paid for to go there. the influencer that virgin paid for to go there he all he wore he wore an orange speedo the whole time i'm hoping that fool has like four or five speedos because your ass is gonna smell eventually

it's hot as fuck on those cruises they're all like it was like it felt like a club i'm not really into the club scene but it was like abiza and shit and i'll tell you all about that. I went to a fucking EDM concert, which fucking sucked. I saw this guy, David Guetta, and it was just expensive. And I was high on acid. I'm like,

I was like sweaty Europeans everywhere. I'm just like, this isn't my vibe, but you know, I tried it out. So shout out to Ibiza for, um, making me go to some fucking EDM concert.

But, um, I just didn't, I don't understand that. I mean, I'm not trying to hate on it. I just don't understand it. It's like everyone's just so sweaty and they're all in ecstasy and they're grinding their fucking teeth and they're just like really close and you're spending $25 to buy a vodka soda

and they're like, yeah, fuck it. It's just like, that's not my taste. So I sat in the back and did a little cocaine. I did cocaine. Yeah, I know. I did some cocaine in Europe. I was like, I'm on vacation. I'm not singing. I did a couple days of cocaine, but it was, it was, that was fun. I wasn't grinding my teeth or anything. I was just like, but I got to sleep for 12 hours on the vacation. Yeah. But anyway, back to the cruise, it was or anything. I was just like, but I got to sleep for 12 hours on the vacation. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, back to the cruise. It was really beautiful.

I love being on a boat. I can't wait for Jam Cruise. We're playing Jam Cruise in February. It was just a great vibe. Everyone was happy. It was a little different because the Virgin Cruise, normally food on these cruises are fucking blow. It's just shitty food. They're just like cattle feeding you bread.

I felt like I was in a workshop or whatever just getting bread and fucking goopy fucking soup and shit. The Virgin Cruise Line was bomb as fuck.

They had like six Michelin star restaurants and it was fucking awesome. They gave us an allowance so I could drink and not blow my whole money I made from last tour on this trip. And I didn't really spend that much money and it was really good and I was really excited. And then the last fucking day, I was like really feeling myself,

doing the whole Euro thing. We were in Ibiza. We're like, fuck it. Let's buy some absinthe. I think I saw like a movie, like Euro trip. Remember that movie Euro trip? I was like, I'm buying some absinthe. We're going to light this bitch and on some sugar cubes and fucking, we're going to go for it. Oh my God. I almost fucking burned the whole boat down. I really felt, have you ever seen that, that TikTok video that's going around where people are just like peacefully, just like sunbathing on a cruise and then they van, pier ride, carnival cruise and the whole fucking flip is on fire. Literally, that's what I thought was happening. I was lighting absinthe on fire,

and I didn't know how to do it. But you're supposed to light the sugar and let the sugar melt. But me and my friends, we don't know what to do. We're dumbasses. So we kept on pouring absinthe on the sugar while the thing's lighting. And then the gust of wind came and literally inflamed the whole front of the boat. And I was like, oh my God, this is my Titanic

moment. I'm going to be fucked. I'm going to be fucked. I'm going to be fucked., it had a little fire. It was like a fire. It didn't, thank God, it didn't hit any of the cushions or anything. But it was kind of like the alcohol was burning on the metal a little bit of like the seat. And I'm like, oh, fuck, grab some water. So we grabbed water. I was pouring it on it, pouring it on it. And I didn't realize, cause I was such on adrenaline, so focused on getting the fire off the fucking boat that I didn't realize there was a fucking flame. It looked, I felt like Dragon Ball Z up in this

bitch, dude. There was a flame going up my leg straight to my dick hole, dude. And my hairs was burning off and Jill was freaking out and everyone was trying to stay like cautious and like, oh my God, what the fuck? And my leg was burning. I have second degree burns all over my fucking leg. And we got the fire out and we got the fire out off the boat. No one saw us.

Shout out to that. Fucking Christ. I would have been in jail. I would have been in boat jail. Would have been in boat jail. I shouldn't probably even be talking about this on the podcast, but I would have been in boat jail. And then,

and then I burned my fucking leg and I was like, Oh fuck. And then we went back and I was like, it was bad. It was bleeding out. And was like, oh, fuck. Then we went back and I was like, it was bad. It was bleeding out. And just like people thought I had the monkey pox and shit. Like it was starting to bubble, you know, like kind of how like people are saying the monkey pox is happening. It was kind of bubbling.

It was like it was painful as fuck. And so lucky I'm alive. I'm you know, I could have been like backdraft up in here, dude. I could have been like backdraft. Your boy could have been backdraft. And like my friends, you know, Wes, you know, Andy, I took Andy West, me and my boy, Shorgasm. And I took a Ben Russell from the Humphreys crew and their wives and my buddy, Rick, who owns Skull Candy. And I took Jill and they're legit frightened. I was going up in flames like those monks did. Seriously, dude. I was like, what the

fuck? But the universe gave me some karma points and I think I don't have any more karma points. So I'm going to be on very good behavior. So let go thank you karma thank you karma jesus fucking christ but now here we are going back to europe um after three days canada then we played asbury park for the see here now fest this is another installment um john from head and the hearts on the show today i interviewed him yesterday right before my show and it was fucking great you You know, he's got like a little bit of like, uh, people say that he's like, kind of like kind of mean or kind of, you know, not mean, but kind of like, uh, you know, intense. And I felt like I had a great conversation with him. I was relating with him cause I'm going through some shit in my head too. And it just made me feel that I'm not alone in this fight a lot of musicians are going

through this mental illness thing and you know because we don't have anyone to talk to about this you know it's you talk this talk about this to a normal person they think you're fucking crazy so we got to hash it out a little bit and one thing led to another and uh it was just perfect and i just really love his band i I loved his lyrics. I love that he's fighting to help his brain while helping figure out. I mean, they hired a band therapist. The head and heart said, you know what? We want to keep this band together. We're hiring a therapist for all six of us because if we don't, we're going to fucking break up. And I got to respect that for the love of the music. And he goes through

all of that. And he goes through his family problems. I mean, we really opened up. We became bros real quick and I'm stoked. And John, if you're listening to this, thanks for coming to the show, bro. You're the fucking man. He comes, he's watching my show side of the stage, all the people. See here now, Courtney Barnett. Holy shit. What a bad bitch that is, too. That was amazing. Courtney Barnett, fucking head in the heart. I think the best takeaways from that show was Courtney Barnett, head in the heart, and Green Day, and Stevie Nicks. Those four. Those four.

I've seen Billy Strings like 10 times. I mean, it's cool. But those four were the shit. And I was really excited to see Stevie Nicks just fucking kill it. 74 years old, just being a bad bitch. I could see it in her eyes that she's still a bad bitch. So shout out to Stevie. Let's go.

And shout out to Green Day. Throwing on a great rock concert with fireworks i mean like i never really you know i'll be honest with you i've never really like i never really watched music when i'm at these festivals i'm only just drinking catching up with my friends and this trip i'm like i'm gonna watch music you know and i watch green i watch like all these big bands you know kade's the elephant was sick fuck, it was sick as fuck, that was fun, this guy's jumping, this guy's crazy as fuck, this guy, he's giving me a lot of, who's the guy from that major, oh, Scott Whelan, Scott, he's giving, that guy's giving me some Scott Whelan vibes,

and he was jumping on fucking trusses, and getting into the camera truss. I'm like, that's my motherfucker right there. Let's go. So shout out to see here now. That was a great festival. Thanks for sponsoring the podcast. But before we leave, I need to, I need to talk to Bo. Hey Bo, come over here. Hey Bo. Bo Balinski's back with us. You missed me. I missed you, buddy. How y'all doing? Come over here. I know, dude.

It's been a minute. It's been a minute. How you been? Good. Good. Well, you're going to Europe now. How you feeling? You nervous?

I am a little nervous. Why? I just never been there before. You know, I just want to make sure everything's good to go. Well, you got a good wingman. Niels is a good... Dude, him and I have been talking last couple days all morning. That's going to be one of your best friends, dude. Niels is the shit.

We're going to teach you those European roads. Did you know there's no speed limit in Germany? Fuck with that. Autobahn. That could get dangerous. But we're also in a van. Just remember, okay? Don't be fucking killing us. There's nine of us. Sean's going to have a heart attack.

Yeah, I know. Oh, God. Poor Sean. Bo, slow down. Bo, slow down. My knee. My knee, brother. My knee. But we're excited, right? Oh, yeah, dude. You know, we're going to go take this thing with a grain of salt. We're going to have some great shows

and we're going to have some real fucking dead shows. But that's life. We'll it you know we'll rock it we're trying new countries out when you try new this is and here's here's my little pep talk from musicians you got to keep trying there's gonna be shows like i just played in front of 10 12 000 people first show back on this tour on the first show on this european tour i'm playing for 15 people buds you got to keep trying you got to keep bringing the people to the new shows you just got to keep going that's it right

get out they'll make it they'll make it eventually just got to slowly build you got to slowly build europe i mean we're pretty big in like six towns in europe but we still got to move around we got to go to switzerland we got to go to paris you know fuck it oh by the way if you're listening to the podcast we canceled the the London and Manchester shows. That's a bummer. Yeah. I was really looking forward to those. It was just costing too much and not enough people were buying tickets.

And we only sold like a couple tickets. And we will get back there. We will get back to London, I promise. But we're going to just keep our talents in the Netherlands, Germany, Belgium, and Switzerland for now. But we will be back there, London. Okay. You ready, buddy?

I'm ready. Any advice for me? What do you need me to do on this trip? Relax. Okay. Keep calm. I'm here for you. Yeah, buddy.

We'll get through this. It's going to be a little bit of a shit show, but we'll get through it. Yeah. And we'll get back to the States and rest for a minute. show, but we'll get through it. We'll get back to the States and rest for a minute. Rest for eight days while you and me interview fucking 12 people

in the podcast to stockpile more before we start our fall tour. Hell yeah. Little Strangers boys, that's going to be fun. Dude, I just hung out with them, made a music video. Oh, by the way, we got a new song coming out. Maybe next week. What week is this coming out? Yeah, next week.

We got a new song out with Little Stranger. Get on the lookout. We just made a music video. I love this song. It's called What a Life. You've listened to it, right? It is, yeah. You dig it?

I'm excited to see the music video. Oh, dude, shitty clowns. Shitty clowns giving nitrous to kids. Amazing. What a life. All right, guys. Be safe. Stay happy. Nick Gerlach's. All right, guys. Be safe. Stay happy.

Nick Gerlach's on this tour, on this European tour. Let's go, Nicky. Nicky's back. So starting next week, Nick will be my co-host and he's going to probably talk shit

about Europeans for fucking two weeks, but maybe he won't. Maybe he'll like the sternness that he will. Yeah. I think he will. He Maybe he'll like the sternness that you will. I think he will. He is kind of, he is like British.

Yeah. I mean, he's got that fucking, everything sucks. Yeah, so he might like Europe. All right, guys. Be safe. I love you. Stay happy. Stay inspired.

Never give up. Even when it's hard. Life is hard. We all understand how hard life is, but just know that tomorrow could be better. So why give up now? So without having a chance for tomorrow to have a better day, right?

Absolutely. When your knee blows out, keep on fucking rock. Just fucking push that in every five, even if it takes five times, push that baby back in. All right, guys,

I love you. Stay safe. And enjoy John from Head & Heart. Alright. Next up on the interview hour, we have the Head & Heart. John from the Head & Heart. Yo, Chris, play some Head & Heart.

You better find the time to see through your vocation. This band is amazing. John is an amazing lyricist straight out of seattle he's a type of artist who says exactly how he feels in all his songs and you gotta love that about an artist he's singing songs straight from the fucking soul and i know you're gonna love this interview because he was super honest. So, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome on the last installment of the See Here Now episodes, John from Edmonton. Tell me that I'm gonna be okay. Tell me that life's gonna find a way. Tell me it hurts but it goes away. Tell me it hurts but it goes away. Tell me that I'm gonna be alright. Tell me that we're gonna find a light.

Tell me it hurts but it goes away. Tell me it hurts but it goes away. I've been noticing the leaves are changing colors. The fuck is up, John? How you doing? What's the word on the street? I just woke up like this, you know what I mean? Mullet, short shorts, tank top.

Yeah, yeah. We played Richmond, Virginia last night, which is where I'm from. Cool. And I woke up two blocks from a beach and I feel like I'm handling it pretty, pretty well. After all these years on the road, does it, do you still feel like a hometown shows a hometown show? You do because of the amount of friends that come into the woodwork. You're like, you might not get tickets. Yeah. They all have like, they're all like six figure jobs, but still want to get the hook up. You know what's funny is like,

he won't, he, I don't know. Who cares? We'll believe it. Sean, you know who you are. Text me at 6.30. Door's open at 6.50. He doesn't work in the industry. Fair enough. But bro, door's open at 20 minutes. You text me, hey, my girl

just reminded me you guys are playing. I'm like, I got you. And then he's just like, oh, cool. Because I was just about to hit purchase. And I just like you had the like it's not even sold out yeah come on man you own the place that i go to all the time like you're doing all right yeah exactly so i mean it's funny so i mean i mean you know i'm exaggerating a little bit but that is one marker how you always feel like is he a close friend of yours he's like he's he's a close close-ish like when you were younger no no but i mean like so i like i kind of moved when i was younger from florida to virginia so like what part i grew up in jacksonville florida oh sick yeah like across

the st john's in orange park um moved when i was like 13 to fredericksburg virginia which is like an hour south of dc yeah and then after graduated high school, I went to Richmond, Virginia. So I kind of have either middle school, high school friends or people that I met, which would have been college years when I didn't go to college. Why did you move so much? Well, the initial move was

just like my dad was a welder and he made more money up north. Oh, cool. He was a pipe fitter and a welder, so they just paid better up north. Did you ever resent your dad for always moving when you're a kid uh i i resented my dad for many other reasons what um he just he if things that are inside of his brain that i now find as like very i feel very fortunate that I've inherited were not necessarily skill sets that made him a good father.

Yeah. Or, or I think, I think there were things that made him believe he couldn't be a good father. And you know what I mean? I just like mind over matter shit. He just, I just don't think he thought he was up for the job.

Right. So therefore he wasn't ever really doing the job. Yeah. He was working. I mean, he worked, he worked his ass off to support a family as, as did my mom my mom worked

two jobs you know a lot because my as a physical labor like if you get an injury you're fucked so my dad blew out his shoulder and was out of work for years you know also this is also the timing when like doctors are fucking ruining America with red hills't that crazy? I just watched that documentary about the heroin epidemic. Just from those pills. Because people are not able to get, it's either they can't reach the high or they can't afford to get access to these drugs

that literally those companies were peddling through the doctors. Yeah, my dad was one of those. So my household was one of those. Like methadone was just on the cabinet shelf. Really? household was one of those. Like methadone was like just on the cabinet shelf. Really? Yeah. And they were just dosing with methadone.

Yeah. Pretty wild. And like, you know, when you're 16, your dad's having insane mild like mood swings. You know, it just sort of felt like par for the course of like, well, we don't really have much of a close relationship. I'm a teenager. It's tumultuous.

It's a small home. Shit happens. And now looking back, it's like, oh, no, he was coming down from like methadone prescription heroin. Oh, my God. And he didn't even know it. You know what I'm saying? Like he eventually weaned himself off that shit.

But I was long gone by then. Did you ever get into any of that stuff? I mean, not heroin. Well, I would sneak some of his pills because you're, you know. A kid. You're in high school and you're like, what is that? I'm going to try that. And that's how I eventually learned,

because I would also have, when it would start wearing off, I was like, if somebody was like shaking a glass with ice in it, on the other side of the room, you'd be like, can we get a little peace and quiet here oh yeah so that's like the aggress yeah so he's just like coming down dude oh yeah um oh so so like i i think because in in in so many ways music and being a singer has saved my life because it's a muscle that if you relax it you can't really do your job yeah like i think if i was i don't know like the amount that that having to perform at a high level as a singer has has kept me from like tasting getting

off the rails but not having the choice to really get off the rails too much um i'm very thankful for and i can't lose your voice and you're fucked. You can't perform at a high level. And like, you know, I'm 37 now. And like, I started doing it professionally at 24. And so 24 to 32, you think you're invincible anyways. Right.

Um, and when you're doing the lifestyle that we do, it's like you have access to things and you think you can handle shit. I feel like I only just now recently realized the amount of things that I thought I had control over I really didn't. I'm like, I'm kind of fed up with being so fucking selfish.

I'll clap to that. Let's fucking go. I'm in the same boat, John. I've been doing 250 shows a year since I was 19. I'm 34. I've been doing 250 shows a year since I was 19. I'm 34. I've been doing coke and having one night stands. Not anymore, but forever. And then you reach this point.

I was exactly 33 when I was like, I am fucking done with this. It's like, how long do you want to hang out on a cul-de-sac? It's a dead-end street. That's a good point. You know what i'm saying like you you eventually like you it's like there's something about the cycle where you get really you continuously get that fix whether it's the drug or just the like these people know you yeah that whole cul-de-sac knows who you are but eventually you're like oh like you guys still just want to watch that were you becoming an at becoming an asshole at the end of that binge?

I was, yeah. Like, what? Like, what were you doing? I think I just, like, I needed it. And I don't even know if it was because, I'm sure partially it was because of the substances, but it was also, like, I just needed to process and, like, do therapy. Like, there was shit that I was resentful about for years that, again, when you're in the cul-de-sac, you're not learning. No. The echo chamber, I call the echo chamber yeah so it

was partially the substances and it was partially like i just wasn't working through my shit yeah what was the shit that you need to work through daddy issues yeah you know i'm saying just like like just observations as a child like seeing my parents um i think looking back now it's just it just feels like the chemistry was off yeah they were ill-paired, you know, and they weren't like, I don't think they were equipped with like, I see like our photographer, I feel like I talk in abstract ways. I'm not a very linear individual, but our photographer is 21 years old and she is more equipped with like her fucking emotional stability

and like the tools to work through things than I am and definitely more than my parents were. And it's just like an evolution thing, I think, with psychology and all of that. So my parents, like just watching them bicker and then fight and then me fight with my father physically and like break shit in the house. And like, I mean, I nearly killed him one time

and he nearly killed me one time. And like that trauma of feeling, I mean, I literally felt the life going out of my dad i had him on the floor and i took hold because he had me in one and i was breaking windows it was gnarly how old were you here i was 16 did you baby 17 did you leave town after that i left i mean i ran out of the house that night and eventually i think i stayed with a friend they kind of like were hip to like how fucked up my my tumultuous my home was at the time so i stayed with a friend that night,

but like things like that where like, and then ever since then I've had dreams where I'll be being chased by like a pack of wolves. And eventually I just stop, I turn around and I just grab them and I've ripped their fucking jaws apart. Yeah. And so that is, it's,

it's anger. It's boiling anger. And it's like, it's being taunted by a father forever. And then finally like i finally got into physical fitness so that i could defend myself and then i did almost to the point where i killed him and that's a horrible feeling it doesn't feel good to almost kill your father it feels fucking terrifying i know i've been having those weird dreams too it's the art

of the it's the art i think of if you're being chased that means they want they want something from you so it's the idea of stop running and fighting back yes but ripping a wolf's jaw i love dogs i love animals like so it's just another layer of like it's it's a weird it's a we it's a scary vision of yourself view of who you are but maybe you loved your dad and just as much you loved animals totally you'll have caught you like he is my flesh and blood and so imagine like wanting to like just out of sheer i want this trauma i want this pain to stop but like in order to do that you have to sever ties with or nearly kill the person that you're supposed to love yeah so yeah it's funny i've never been able to like psychoanalyze those dreams as much as we just have but so imagine that and then imagine being 21 you're kind you've been living on your own for a

few years now you know you start drinking at bars and out of nowhere here comes this like you know ability to like fight back and you start seeing things in ways that aren't really necessarily as heightened as they feel. Yeah. So it took me a long time to like harness and work through my emotions. Because I would just, it was triggering. It was like, it must have been like PTSD or something. You know what I mean?

Like not everyone was actually chasing me like a pack of wolves. You know what I'm saying? But I would go from zero to that. Is that anxiety? I don't know. I think it's like. What is chasing? I don't know. I think it's like, what is chasing? I don't know.

The idea of chasing. I think it's like, it's like, I just personally felt, I just got to a point where I was like, I've felt this way my whole life from, from something that was out of my control. I think it's out of control.

Right. Not having control over like your own ability to feel safe. Yeah. Maybe. And I very quickly would be reminded of that feeling and I would just freak the fuck out. And that's, you know, it's so, it's just wild that a human can have that emotion while at the same time I'm obsessed with love. Yeah. Like I'm obsessed with love and I see it in nature and I see it in human beings and I've finally now found it with my

now wife. But like to be able to possess that obsession with love and like the I mean I just I I've you know I can like I can it can wash over me in a field and I can like break down in tears how is that person the same person who can feel cornered and OB let's just go from zero a hundred and think these wolves are after him and just like lash out. But yeah, like what is love? It's the love. Love to me is, is when you stop running and let something into you. I mean,

110,000%. So maybe that's why you love it so much. Cause you've been running your whole life. Yeah. I mean, I don't think I was able to really love myself and understand what love was to have close people around me until I met my wife and her family.

How long have you been with her? Almost seven years. Been married for one year. Okay, so this is interesting to me. You talk about when you're a kid about the resentment of your dad and you never wanted to be like him. You always felt like he was never there.

Do you ever feel like you're doing, you're in the same footsteps because you're a traveling musician and you're always gone from your wife? 110%. How do you get through that in your head? That roadblock? I think it's one step forward to just three steps back. A lot of the time.

In all honesty, like, like just in the last like week to month, I've had some shit go down where I was like, really took a step back and looked at my life and looked at how selfish I was continuing to be. Because here's what I'm realizing. It's like my dad traveled for work because it made more money for the family. Like I think we would have respected him.

And that had, when he come back, had he known how to handle the emotions of, I miss you. I love you. And what that can sometimes turn into from children and wife and, and return as a positive, like,

I know I miss you and I love you too. We never got that. It was just like, he felt bad. He didn't know how to handle it. He shut off. He would smoke outside we never saw him right so i so i saw myself doing that it's like and and i'm finally just trying to

like show up and be accountable and be like i miss you i love you i'm gonna be present with you because i'm here now like you've got to just learn how to like i don't know not let the negative become everything right focus on the positive. And I think people are more understanding and forgiving of you because they're proud of you. Like you're following your fucking dream. As long as I can be proud of you and you respect that and you not be a total prick when you get back,

this is going to work out okay. You know? Yeah. And it's like taking the microscope further away and realizing there's not that much bad stuff. Everyone else, there's so much other beautiful stuff we're doing yeah we can't see that because that one or two pieces of or whatever it is in your head that is just driving us mad that you can't be present yeah and i think love is present 100 yeah honestly like i'm just kind of in a place right now where

like whether it's just this tour or when I get off, just like kind of cleaning myself up and being completely natural on this run and sleeping and, um, you know, remembering people's names and remembering like, Hey, remember when,

you know, it's like the band and crew dynamic. We're so close, but at the same time, it can kind of just be surface on repeat sometimes. And it's like, hey, like three days ago, I actually, I asked you what you went to school for and I actually remember that now. And I can like see you seeing something and be like, oh, that's that sociologist in you. You know what I mean?

Like I can be a present and have depth human being with these people that when you're just kind of living day-to-day for yourself and your own gains and then you don't have it yeah isn't it amazing it took you 13 years to get to know your band i like that with my band or it took me 36 and a half years to get to know myself right which one's more offensive i don't know um i think we you know we'll always and not even offensive see that's being too hard on myself fuck that like no yeah let go of of the things you did wrong because if you carry that shit around with you you're you're continuing the cycle right like people just want you to be positive so show up be kind to yourself so you can be kind to others you know it's like it's so funny we're in such a vulnerable job that it when we come into our personal life it's so funny, we're in such a vulnerable job that when we come into our personal life,

it's so hard to be vulnerable with the people we care about. I know, well, because sometimes you swing so hard, one of the, I mean, I remember in the beginning, especially I'd come off stage and I was just so raw and so untrained, musically speaking, emotionally speaking, publicly speaking, I would bare my soul to such degree on stage. And those first two to three records too,

especially were like, were so first person. So much of my journal, I don't know that anybody ever realizes that, you know, it was like literally me. Like it wasn't good. Like I got into this in the first place because I needed it. Like when I would get into these fights with my dad,

I would write in red because it signified the blood and i would write poetry and like you were deep thinking like that when i was 16 bro i was in a transcendentalism let's go i mean you had to find a way to escape that pain without killing someone exactly or going i mean i mean i think this this job has kept me out of jail numerous times and I say that kind of in a cheeky way but for the first seven years of this I did not handle what is on stage and what is off stage very well because people would want to meet you and they would want to share their side of their stories with you

and I was just so raw coming off stage that i would just be such a dick yeah because i just felt so insulted i was just like you fucking kidding me yeah you want more yeah you know and like and i'm like i didn't have the awareness to realize like they don't know what you're going through they don't know how real that was for you like how the fuck how dare you get mad at somebody for being a fan of yours or is it more of like yeah i feel like that too when i'm burnt out and beat up like what do you get off stage and you feel like they just want something from you when really they're just trying to relate with you get a little paranoid quick you know because you start wanting to protect your own it's boundaries are healthy right what i learned in the pandemic when you had to create boundaries

because you're at one place with you and other people your wife i don't have kids yet i can only imagine but like you've learned to create boundaries you learn to say no because it's healthier for a later on scenario where you're actually going to be better to yourself and those around you right so like what was the worst blowout that you regret band related or just personally related just anything that keeps you up at night because as you as you're feeling like you're becoming a better person yeah or in your head you know yeah yeah you're probably always a good person it's probably the most recent you know it's always the most recent it's kind of like what's your favorite song it's like the one i just wrote but like, I think it's the ones that closest because the ones that close that is

closest is almost like a direct, like the underground, like tunnel back to the very first time you were a prick. And then you just get in debt. You get down on yourself. You're like, I still, I'm still a prick.

I feel that way too, bro. Yeah. Biggest prick since 19, uh, 1997. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Yeah. Still a prick. Still never won prick since 97. Like know what I'm saying? Hey, Nebraska prick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Still a prick. Still number one prick since 97. Like, cool. So what was it? What was the blowout? Recently, it was like, so I enjoy or have been enjoying for like since I was a teenager. Like, I've always been interested in like psychedelics like i've always been interested in and like

psychedelics i've always been interested in stimulant well not always but stimulants kind of became a secondary thing especially like doing this job where you know if when you're when you're tired this job feels like a drag when you're not tired this job feels like you're in fucking heaven yeah right and and and sometimes that happens naturally and sometimes it doesn't um and what i've actually started doing is exercising instead of relying on stimuli stimulants it's more sustainable i'm more present like what are you running uh no my knees are fucking keeping me from running nah dude i started like sweating yeah i mean like i'm not like you you can see me but like i'm not like i, you can see me, but like, I'm not like I'm some shredded, ripped out dude. But like, I've been working on my core, my breath and my balance because I'm 37 and I'm a front man.

And I got all these fucking 21 year old kids crushing it in their skinny jeans. Just like, you know, these, these immortals in their black skinny jeans. You know what I'm saying? Like, I got to compete with that motherfucker. Oh, I'm proud of that. saying like i gotta compete with that motherfucker yeah so so i've been doing stuff like with like like uh resistant bands and like like things where you use your own body and balance to like build strength and sustain it in like uh word um stamina right um i don't drink before shows anymore i'm actually kind of not drinking at all right now

until I get off tour. My voice, my range is way better. I had to quit smoking. All the shit that I loved doing was really keeping me at a certain level. There was an invisible ceiling. And once I quit smoking and stopped drinking, you know, anytime before performance

and currently even after them you know performing is fucking easy and i'm like crushing when you were drunk you felt like you weren't you weren't killing it no no no no i mean like years ago i realized that like once you start headlining and you're doing like over an hour and a half straight of songs like as a singer you can't drink yeah you you get flat you literally sing like shit yeah and there's three of us so there's like it's not like it's not like a band where it's like oh it's like not not that noticeable because he's really into it i throw off every fucking vocal harmony if i'm singing flat as is everybody and that's important so it's

like you know i think of it like if you're in this fucking fighter jet and you've got a formation every motherfucker has to be on point it's not just you true right so like you fuck something up like disaster happens so um but yeah so the exercise thing has been like it a so when i came back after the pandemic i was like fuck yeah we still have a job that's beautiful i'm thankful however i was also like because i don't want to take it for granted i don't want to get drunk and do it because i didn't want to get drunk and do it i'm standing on stage there's six people surrounded by 5 000 to 10 000 people and i and i'm like this is fucking weird yeah how do i not see this like this is weird i was hanging having like just anxiety to where it took me like almost more

than half the set to like stop thinking yeah And that's just not a good ratio. Especially after 14 years is just killing it. And like all those people who want to come back and see a live band, like they're not paying to see you have a fucking anxiety issue on stage, bro. So work your shit out before you get on stage. So that's what I do. I work out before I get on stage.

And now I'm, now I'm like, now I feel like I belong back to what it's like. I'm 19 again. Like I knew I belonged in this world in music on a stage. And I think for a lot of those middle years, I kind of just like stopped remembering that you have to, you have to earn shit to deserve something.

Right. So I feel like I'm back to, in a humble way of like remembering that you're always the student. There's always somebody who's hella talented and if you don't want to if you don't want to take it if you don't if you don't want to like take this like seriously and see the beauty in it then like fuck off get out of the nba yeah you know i'm saying it's too hard for your exactly and i'm big basketball head i'm that's all i think is how coaches like that's one how coaches deal with all these alter these egos in a band you know as a league guy

after now everyone has money they have wives and how do you balance that without everyone killing each other therapy band therapy yep you have the you have the band on therapy yep together oh yeah oh tell me about this what's going going on? Really? I need to first and foremost give a shout out to Charity. God bless her. She's one female surrounded by five males, has been for 13 years. She grew up with two sisters, no brothers, and now she's got five. I'm clapping. Let's tell Charity for Charity.

Hell yeah, bro. So as you can imagine, it was her initial spark who was like, hey, so I think it might be good if... And for a long time, we were just like, yeah. Fucking guys just like, I don't know. Yeah. We're already spread to see our feelings. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, yeah, I don't know if I want to fuck with what's going on in here. You know, like the most selfish perspective of all time. Like, no, we're good. She's like, I know you're good, all time. Like, we're good. She's like, I know you're good, fuckers. In which we weren't. But anyway, so we had started to sort of like approach therapy as a band for maybe six months or so. And then when the pandemic happened,

it was in this regard a blessing in disguise because we for once had the opportunity or the advantage of like being able to talk real talk rip off band-aids and not have to go and do an interview or go on television or go on stage or go to our very small bus and deal with it

yeah like no one's going to be honest and then have to be like sitting next to somebody being like hey bro like pass me that water bottle yeah we got it like that is not going to happen so in a weird way to do that like get drunk and say how you felt and then have to deal with no drive you would get drunk and not say how you felt oh suppression it's just like a mountain of band-aids and then and then you'd have a meltdown somewhere why were you so afraid to like say how you feel um because i think for me i mean i'm sure it was a different reason for everyone i think for me like going back to like what used to haunt me the most which was

like having someone have power over me of like this person makes me feel like i don't i don't i don't have safety and i don't have control. And there's an illusion that you feel like I chose this lifestyle, I have control. The minute you start opening up a conversation and conversations don't resolve themselves immediately. There's like part one, part two, it's a saga. So like you can't, I don't think that I had the ability. I wasn't sturdy enough to handle the awareness enough to realize

I'm not in control on this either. I'm partially out of control because of these five other people. We are choosing to do this together and I don't think I could have handled it. Does that make sense? Totally. Because you're already not in control of your head. Your music that was your sanctuary

was your place of freedom. Now it's a business it's a business and it's shared with five other other individuals who frankly make it better they add color and dimension and their own personalities but yeah when it comes to like having to work through your own emotions and try and you know just navigate that it's like right yeah you just you learned that it didn't wasn't that it wasn't easy and you know just navigate that it's like right yeah you just you learned that it didn't wasn't that it wasn't easy and so you just start you started doing it less and less yeah so you need a coach you need a producer you need a therapist you need somebody to in the ring to like

understand someone's breaking point let them draw that shit out and then and then go okay thank you john kenny how does that make you know what I'm saying? Someone to just oversee. Was this therapist on the road with you guys? She came out a few times, like I said, because 2019, you know, when we were on the road, yes, she met us a few times. She's also incredibly busy and has her hand in life and several other things

and you typically had a much higher level of issue. and several other things and much, you typically had a much higher level of, of issue. Um, and yeah, but so then like, um, I think being able to do it from our own safety of our own apartments,

you know, virtually zoom calls. That's what it was. That's when it started to become actually honest. Yeah. Because you could, you know, you would do that and then you could close your laptop and you could just

like decompress alone. Yeah. Talk to your wife about it whatever yeah and then you would see them on the screen a few days or a week later whatever you know what i mean you didn't have to like it was it was nice wake up with them yeah we spent 12 years together yeah and i'm like and i'm happy to want i'm happy now to want to spend another 12 years with them but it was like you guys almost break up you think oh yeah a handful of times yeah yeah i'm sure a lot of bands that are here today have almost broken up dozens of times you know what do you think the main core of a breakup of a band is miscommunication yeah just like any other relationship right musically or professionally or what? I don't know. There's a difference. I don't see it as any different.

It's all the same. I don't know. Power dynamics. Because it's groups, right? So group power dynamic. I mean, I think the easy answer is ego, but that's kind of a cop-out because what does that mean?

To me, that encapsulates a lot of things. Right. Because a certain amount of ego is healthy. You have to have some amount of confidence to do what you're doing right now, to do what I'm doing on stage. If you didn't have that confidence and your belief in yourself,

then I don't see how you get up and do these things. Have you ever had a dud record? That's a good question. In my mind, no, but I'm a songwriter. I didn't do this for success. I'm happy. The success equals the ability to continue to do it right so that's a beautiful thing um but to me the success of of making music and songs and a record is like is the engagement you see from a fan and like what that's doing for people

um for sure there's records that are more or that are better received by you know critically does that bum a band out when it's less received some people in the band are a lot a lot more like um sensitive to stuff like that i think i have the advantage because i'm always i'm always getting healing from these songs yeah so i'm i'm less scared or or uh or concerned with what that means i just have trust in like, hey, there's people listening because for a reason, they're not necessarily the ones writing about it. You know what I mean? They're out there and they're listening.

And this is, if it feels real to me, it's going to feel real to somebody else. So like the guy writing about it, maybe it was an editor who asked somebody to do it because the piece needed to be done. Who knows what was up their ass that day maybe they don't care maybe they're into metal and they had to write about a folk band like i don't read too much into it like it doesn't bother me that much it doesn't

it doesn't surprise me very much yeah like i'm a huge fan of the like right now i'm obsessed with the cure and like you watch these cure documentaries and it's like people are ripping them apart but also praising them at the same time right and to me every single one of those records are incredible so who fucking cares like who cares if there's a i guess it's like what constitutes a dud somebody somebody's saying the last one was better in that regard then sure of course we've had duds you had a you had a great mentality there like who the idea of who cares you know you have these these you write these songs you do your thing why do we why do we over we're i'm talking about internally so like you you just deconstructed like to let the river

flow again yeah why do why do we not listen to the brain doing that same theory well because i mean i i think look i'm i'm also like probably trying to sound a little you know thicker skin than i really am here yeah because of course like i hear of shit whether i'm the one who read it or it's a band member who who felt the need to bring it to my attention even though i think it was the most unhealthy shit you've ever done in my life. Yeah. By revealing that to me, but whatever. Sorry, bro.

Sorry. But it's like, I get it. And like, you know, just because on one hand, who doesn't want, I think we'd both be lying if we said that we don't want, at the end of the day, 10 out of fucking 10. A fucking 10. Right?

10. 10. 10. Right? Like, we all want that. we're gonna it's some we're some part of us is going to have to acknowledge what they're saying yeah right the and the really good and i don't think i'll ever get a 10 10 10 10 you know but i'll probably also not i'll probably never stop striving for one so therefore you're always going to be a little

susceptible to those who are saying like four and a half you're like four and a fucking half oh mother no give me just give me a fucking seven i know you i know you thought seven and you just wanted to be like with your peeps and say four and a half do you think these guys are more critical the more records you make i don't know actually i think it depends on on i think it has more to do with like the graph the scale of like your rise for us we kind of had like a very uh like to a right like no one had ownership over our except for our fans and i think that's why people just there's like we may as well just pan it yeah because we we didn't rely on them like we sold our at first we weren't on a label and like we just had access to that floor it was probably it was like a year but like we sold like

10 000 records out of our trunk of our car let's go dude i know yeah so like people didn't break like fans how old were you 24. let's go yeah so in a weird way i didn't get into coke and with that much excitement no dude i was surrounded by like homeschool kids i moved to seattle to start this band if i would have moved to new york and found people me, I would have been dead already. Same bro. Yeah. So God bless everyone from Seattle. I did have to move back to Virginia.

Yeah. It's so fucking wild, dude. Life is so wild. When you, why did, why does it take us 40 years to kind of start understanding I'm 34 and, but like, I'm just getting to the surface of who i am we're so afraid to find out who we are well the funny part is when personally for me because i can so relate to that when i was 27 i thought i had it all figured out i was the most arrogant

i've ever been thought i had it i thought i was just like yo why are we not like we should be co-headlining with a coldplay right i was in my head and meanwhile i'm like yo you've only done like one record but in my mind i'm like yeah but just wait till see what i do next yeah and then you do something next and they're like yeah first one was better and you're like are you competitive what's that are you competitive oh hell yeah yeah so like you're into skateboard i'm like competitive but like i'm all i was never like a team so nba is new for me my wife played when she was in school so she taught me so

pandemic showed me the nba the bubble loved it where do you live now i live in richmond virginia oh sick but i was living in san San Francisco for like the last six years because that's where my wife is from. So we're in this like, we had like a dope loft apartment and I'm just watching fucking NBA eating popcorn like, oh, my wife would be like, so that's why this play is happening and that's why defense is important down here. And I'm just like, uh-huh, uh-huh.

You understood it. Oh, fuck yeah. Fuck yeah, Draymond Green. Fuck yeah, Draymond Green. Okay, okay. Oh, I see you, Curry. Just like getting into the Golden State Warriors. And it was like the time when Curry had his thumb injury.

So like he was out for the whole season. And then he's back. And they like almost made it to the fucking playoffs. And it was beautiful watching Jordan Poole come up. Watching. I would like shed tears after some of those games it was the most beautiful way of watching a veteran come back and bring up these kids in a very humbling way and for them to come clawing back i just had never really i'd never been in group uh team sports

running track skateboarding that's it so like i'm competitive but i would like what i do competitively like skateboarding allows you to do is like'm competitive but i would like what i do competitively like skateboarding allows you to do is like you would group skate like maybe friday or saturday on the weekends all week long you go to school you come home you practice these tricks over and over and over again no one sees it so i i they're saying i think i for a long time had an issue with like i don't want you to see me until i'm crushing it yeah right so like i spent all week working on this backtide backside tail slide couldn't do it that they finally get it boom saturday rolls around go go skate with the group oh shit john can back that sit back you

know back backside tail slide all of a sudden so competitive but i also had an advantage of like disappearing like a cat in the woods when they're sick and then they come back all healthy and shit like um so i think being in a band was like the first time where i had to like be sick in front of people that was the thing i did not hear i didn't handle it well yeah because you've always been an individual athlete i consider music being in a band is just like being in a professional athlete i appreciate i appreciate you saying. Cause I actually agree with that now. It's mental as fuck dude, to play in front of that many people every night. It really is.

Kill every night. Yeah. And okay. Okay. So I appreciate that. There's one thing I heard from LeBron James was saying like, I used to play, my drive used to come from anger and now my drive comes from joy.

And like, and I feel like I noticed that shift in his playing and I feel like I'm finally hitting that place yeah because I used to walk out especially big festivals and I was just like I'm going out there like a fucking like Braveheart yeah same to charge face paint I'm charging it just looked like a sea of people that I needed to convince were morons and if they unless they understood how fucking important this music was right like it's so crazy like that's such a an odd thing to to think but I think maybe at the time I needed that was my only drive was like that was my fire and now and now I'm kind of like it's so much so much of a better feeling to go out

there and just like love love is my drive. And I know that sounds fucking cheesy and cliche, but like, if you knew me, if you know me, like you'd be like, oh, thank fucking God. Yeah, but like anger got you there. Now you don't want to be angry your whole life. That sounds fucking horrible. I just see what it's just, that's just toxicity. So you got to find a different way to fucking spark that. If you're going on an elevator and you don't see shit and that elevator ride is just like,

whatever. You go in an elevator and you smile and you leave the elevator going like, wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Somebody else smiled. Yeah. It's like Charlie and the chocolate factory.

Yeah. It's just like. Breaking through the glass. Yeah. I'm all about it. Oh my God. Okay. I got two more questions.

I gotta go perform in 20 minutes. Great. This has been great I agree I feel like we're getting to know each other Yeah You know all my friends Like Dawes We just had the best tour ever with those guys

Yeah And Erin Ray Yeah She I think she played with you guys a couple years back But Dawes I heard that tour was great Yeah

Yeah Yeah Yeah they were lovely All of them you ever hate an opener? and you have to deal with these motherfuckers for like two months you don't have to say names no no no

like pretentious I mean honestly dude if I'm being real I was probably the one so caught up in my shit that I was either like numb to it or like, I really loved it. Yeah.

You know what I mean? It's easy to marinate in our own shit, but, and especially when everyone's kissing. Yeah. It's like, I think it's not that smelly. Yeah,

exactly. Cause everyone's kissing your ass smelly. You know, I realized like sometimes I'll have conversations with people. My breath is stinking. Yeah. Well, you know,

we have the masks now, dude. If I want to get up at 7 in the morning and go get a coffee, and I'm like, fuck it, I'll brush my teeth later. Put the mask on. They put up with our assholeness when we're having a bad day. I know. That's pretty beautiful. Yeah.

God bless your wife. Dude. What was the craziest? Tell me about it. I mean, did you ever almost break up with her? She almost broke up with you because you were acting too fucking crazy. I mean, I'm sure. me about it. I mean, like, do you ever almost break up with her? Because she almost break up with you because you're acting too fucking crazy. I mean, I'm sure. I'm sure.

I mean. Come back from the road. Just fucking. Yeah. Don't know how to reverse time. The amount of shit that she's. It's like, it's offensive to myself to imagine how many things she's been patient and just like trusting that I will eventually

do the right thing and learn from something and get over my shit. Pretty amazing. Do you believe in, she was here for a reason? It was meant to be? Her and her entire family have like, created like a love force field for me because I normally, I'm a good runner.

Like literally and figuratively, I can just burn a bridge and be like, I didn't need that fucking island anyways. I'll go find another one because I'm a fucking adventurer. And it felt like she came at the right time. If seven years, that means you're deep in your head and deep with the band drama. It was just meant to be to have,

everyone needs a getaway. I have my first girlfriend right now. I've never had a girlfriend. I used to just have one night stands my whole time. Wow. And I just, this is the first time. Congratulations. It's cool.

It frightens me. And we break up all the time because I want to run the same thing. I'm like, I don't need this island. I don't have a boat. Fine. I'll swim. I'll take a, I'll find a shark to move me. Well, you know, can I, if I could say one thing, the thing that I think, um, cause I was like that, even when I met my now wife, Lindsay,

like I still had a lot of that in me and what I've, what, what I was taught by her family was like, you know, it's not sexy. Like what this, this, this weird thing you think is like interesting and cool. This ability that you have to run. Guess what? That's the easiest thing in the world to do. The hardest, the hardest thing to do. The thing that actually looks like making you look like a fucking man is to take the fucking punishment. Learn from it and fucking sit your ass down.

I fucking love this woman. You know what I'm saying? That's some dope advice. It is. Whatever it is. However, we convinced ourselves that it's like somehow cool and mysterious to have this ability to run. I love this woman. You know what I'm saying? That's some dope advice. It is. You know what it is, too? However we convinced ourselves that it's like somehow cool and mysterious to have this ability to run, we couldn't be further from the truth. Like, what the fuck?

It's not cool. It's not sexy. You know, that's the thing. We don't need someone kissing our ass, especially if it's the wife. We already have enough fucking confidence in ourselves, let's be honest. Damn, I love that. She does fucking. Sit your ass down.

You want to be a man? Sit your ass down and fucking listen and stay here and realize that you need to learn from some shit. And have you? I have. I'm 37. I still have a lot of shit to learn. Welcome, brother. Me too. John, thanks for being on the show.

We didn't even talk music. I felt that was just a real bonding session. People have heard the music. This is more, this is shit that no one gets to hear. So thank you for doing it. You ready for see here now? I'm so fucking ready. You ready? You still happy when you go out on that stage?

I'm literally the happiest I've ever been. I'm not even just saying that right now. Do you ever get bored of the songs you play? I used to. I used to when i think when i was thinking about it all in the mentality of like of like braveheart yeah i thought like literally like i used to think like i always had to be reinventing the wheel and now i'm like nah dude just go out there every every day is a new day and the person that hears tonight like

they're here for very different reasons than the people were there for last night well different and not different like they're just here to be overjoyed or healed or have a release or whatever it is like you just go out there and let them have that that's your fucking job i fucking love you john that's thank you i needed this because i was like i'm always i'm like tinkering i'm in a songwriter i'm also in the jam scene and i deal with these jam people who i swear to god like i have to change the sound like i want to play the songs i want to play that i love to play you know what my fans want to hear yeah i'm getting you know you get chastised you got to play something new i'm like yeah suck my dick from the back you know it's like there's and it's it's interesting because to them that's it's like there is a loud voice of a collective voice of a lot of people in any genre

who there's so there's they can be such purists and they're so they're so it that music is so important to them yeah no just try and give them the benefit of the doubt like that's why they're doing that because it's so important to them. But also remember like, Hey, I appreciate your perspective, but I'm here because I am who I am. Right. Right. Right. And so like,

you gotta give me some, give me some fucking leeway to like, you love this because of what I brought and what my bandmates brought to this. So like, give us some fucking room. Damn. I'm about to Venmo you 75 bucks for a therapy session. No,

man, no, I'm just paying it forward. I'm just paying it forward because this shit did a lot for me as well. It was a pleasure to though. No, man. I'm just paying it forward. I'm just paying it forward because this shit did a lot for me as well. It was a pleasure to talk to you, John. Hopefully, we get to see each other again. I'm in Richmond a bunch.

You know Dave Schools? He's in widespread panic. He grew up out there. Richmond is low-key dope. Good music scene. Keep it low-key dope. Mama Zoo's, all that stuff is the fire, dude. And I love playing the National.

That's the spot we play in. Yeah, we play there almost every single time we play. Last night was the first time we have really like, excuse me, kind of, we played the Austria Theater last night. That's bigger, right? It's bigger. And it's like,

normally we're like the National or a night or two there. Yeah. Or Brown's bigger, right? It's bigger. Normally, we're like the national or a night or two there or Browns Island Friday night cheers. Hey, I've been seeing your things. It's just been big. You're putting your dick

out there and it's working, bro. Thanks, dude. It's cool. We'll keep doing it. Thanks, dude. Thanks, bro. Thanks, dude. I got to go perform.

But John, thanks for being on the show and good luck with everything and we'll be friends later you tuned in to the world's podcast with Andy Fresco thank you for listening to this episode

produced by Andy Fresco, Joe Angelo and Chris Lawrence we need you to help us save the world and spread the word please subscribe, rate the show, give us the crazy stars iTunes, Spotify, wherever you're picking this shit up the world and spread the word please subscribe rate the show give us those crazy stars itunes spotify wherever you're picking this shit up follow us on instagram at world saving podcast for more info and updates fresco's blogs and tour dates you'll find at andyfresco.com and check our

socials to see what's up next might be a video dance party a showcase concert that crazy shit show or whatever springs to andy's wicked brain And after a year of keeping clean and playing safe, the band is back on tour. We thank our brand new talent booker, Mara Davis. We thank this week's guest, our co-host, and all the fringy frenzies that helped make this show great. Thank you all. And thank you for listening.

Be your best, be safe, and we will be back next week.